“Face the Strange”
Star Trek: Discovery Season 5, Episode 4 – Debuted Thursday, April 18, 2024
Written by Sean Cochran
Directed by Lee Rose
A classic Trek setup provides a fun canvas for Discovery to explore the big changes behind the characters and foreshadow changes yet to come.
There is nothing suspicious about the way I am holding this bag.
WARNING: Spoilers below!
RECAP
“Change is hard”
After a quick flashback to a double-cross with a shady arms dealer showing how Moll and L’ak acquired the thingie she planted on Adira last episode, we catch up with the ensign in their quarters chatting with (now ex-bf) Gray. A mechanical spider jumps off their uniform and blends into the bulkhead just as the Disco arrives at the coordinates provided by Jinaal only to find a whole lot of nothing. The bridge crew starts brainstorming ideas, but newly minted XO Rayner wants to “stick to the facts” and brusquely shuts down speculation from Rhys. The captain takes Rayner to her ready room to remind him how they do things on Discovery—has he not binged the previous seasons? The hardened vet of The Burn years knows he crossed the line with “Spare me the ‘I get you bulls—t’” as Burnham makes it clear it’s her way or the spaceway. But before they can hug it out, evil spidey sinks into a bulkhead in engineering and things start going all flashy wonky… and boom: The ship is suddenly at warp and red alert. With transporter badges inoperative, Burnham and Rayner have to actually walk to the bridge. What’s next, stone knives and bearskins?
Michael susses they have traveled back in time to when the Discovery jumped forward to the 32nd century when she finds the crew passed out in their old uniforms, following the red angel suit (with her inside it) through a wormhole. Before they experience the fun of a crash landing, lights flash again and the pair is returned to the ready room, sans a bulkhead. After admiring the view of the Golden Gate Bridge from even further in the past, Rayner dispatches a flustered construction worker building the Disco. Another flash jump takes them forward to the battle with Control and Rayner figures it out: The ship has been infected with a Krenim “time bug” weapon, likely from their pals Moll and L’ak. The attempt to transport just as the weirdness started explains why they are the only ones who are aware, with the exception of Stamets because he lives outside of time due to a tardigrade DNA injection… long story. Another time jump finds them back in the 32nd century, but before they can find Stamets, they end up in a corridor gunfight with Emerald Chain regulators and get a surprisingly helpful assist from Reno. One more jump puts them back in the ready room but things are quiet… too quiet. The computer is non-responsive, the ship is abandoned… and what’s that sound? Is that Doris Day? Oh boy.
Does this thing get Paramount+?
“Please set things right, captain.”
The pair of involuntary time travelers is greeted by Zora on the bridge, who isn’t quite sure she isn’t dreaming, since Burnham and the crew all died decades ago after failing the Progenitor mission. It’s 3218 and outside the window, they can see Federation HQ smashed by the Breen, Moll and L’ak’s highest bidders for the god-level tech. This horrible end to their story has Michael thinking back to her first time walking onto that bridge with big-time imposter syndrome, and Rayner offers a surprisingly empathetic pep talk. Buoyed and motivated to stop this future from happening, they make a plan to break the Krenim Chronophage cycle, and Zora and Burnham technobabble a map of the time bug’s pattern to help track and stop it. They say adieu to the lonely AI and the next jump finds Stamets in his old uniform, bluffing his way through a years-old conversation with Reno. He uses the opportunity to get her thoughts on the best way to “theoretically” tech their way out of this temporal nightmare. “Are you stuck in a time loop?” she asks… but the acerbic engineer is just messing with him. Cynicism for the win!
Michael and Rayner arrive and they all put their pieces together into a plan to squash that time bug with a “chronotron stabilizer,” but Paul is going to need some stuff from around the ship. They work out a plan to meet up after jumps on the oddly empty Deck 13. During a jump back to the 32nd century (around the time Burnham took command), she has to get some fluid from the holodeck in her quarters, which is where Book shows up, straight from the gym! To him, she is still his gf, so off comes the shirt and on comes the irresistible carnal charm… humana humana. “It’s hard being a new captain.” You can say that again. She bluffs her way through with talk of being needed on the bridge but not before Book can give her a nice little pick-me-up chat and a big ‘ol “I love you” kiss. She accepts it—and it doesn’t really look like she’s bluffing. Back in the lab, Stamets’ time bug killer is built, but when they try it out, it bounces right off. Of course, the Krenim device has temporal shields and anything that gets too close super-ages into dust. Well, kiss my Annorax.
Would it have killed you to do some dusting, Zora?
“Don’t’ give up.”
The team reconvenes after another jump with a new crazy plan. To get around the temporal shield they have to use Stamets’ ChronoBugSmasherTM just as the ship breaks out of a warp bubble and hope the relativistic forces don’t kill them all first. But as a bonus, if they do it right, they won’t have to worry about that Temporal Prime Directive as there is a handy reset button. Stamets needs to be in engineering backed up by Rayner, so Michael has to do the warp bubble thing from the bridge… but now they’re back in time to when she was a mistrusted mutineer. Lorca and Saru are away, leaving Airiam (sniff) in command. After a fun fashion appreciation moment with Linus in the turbolift, Michael comes face to face with… herself. You knew this was coming! Younger, angrier Burnham is not listening to this obvious imposter’s attempt to de-escalate things, so it’s fight club time. As you’d expect, the pair is fairly evenly matched, but Captain Mike has learned some new moves and puts down her younger self, telling sleepy Michael things will get better. Stamets and Rayner are also at odds, but the XO shows some empathy for all the pressure Paul is under to take on the mystery of Progenitor tech, so the gruff first officer buries the hatchet with a formerly gruff scientist with, “Hey, Paul, let’s show ‘em how a couple of old dogs still know the best tricks.” Aw, he made a new gruff friend.
On the bridge, Airiam is wondering what Specialist Burnham is doing out of uniform and Tilly is wondering what she did with her hair… never change, Sylvia. Michael goes with full honesty: time bug, warp bubble, etc. It’s a tough crowd, but she uses an understanding of their personal stories to connect with them, convincing Airiam when she recounts her heroism and sacrifice, then Burnham gets to work showing off her impressive 32nd-century tech, which probably could have saved her some “I’m really from the future” convincing time. The bridge crew is ready to do the warp bubble thing, but the action in engineering has gone sideways: Young Burnham has arrived with Rhys and a couple of phasers, convinced this is all some shapeshifter trick. Now it’s Rayner’s turn to show he has been listening, proving to both he knows them from the future. It works, they execute the plan, and blammo, back to the future! It’s only been six hours in the time bug loop so now they have plenty of time to get Marty’s mom to the dance, sorry… to get to the Progenitor tech first. On the bridge, it’s time for some warm moments with the crew as Michael tells the tale of the warp bubble escape. Moll and L’ak’s warp trail has been found, proving Rhys’ theory and earning the young officer an attaboy from Rayner, showing he has learned the lesson of the episode. That trail appears to lead nowhere. At least it’s a clue… but that’s for another time. See what I did there?
At this point, Rayner is second-guessing not taking retirement.
ANALYSIS
Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
Now more confident in its own identity in its fifth season, Discovery feels free to inject a bit more classic Star Trek into the show, which allows them to explore how much the show—and more importantly, the characters—have changed over the years. They may not have known this was going to be their last season, but this episode sure felt like they were reflecting on the show’s evolution, indulging in visits to some key moments, not unlike the Voyager’s final season episode “Shattered.” Like the excellent season 4 Lower Decks episode “Caves,” this bottle show had a bit of a clip show style, but each visit helped give more meaning to the characters’ stories. The “Face the Strange” title was the first clue; it’s a line from the classic David Bowie song “Changes,” which was all about how he had reinvented himself throughout his career. Of course, being Discovery, the episode made sure you got this by mentioning variations of “change” multiple times. Disco is going to Disco, but “Face the Change” feels a bit like the show is wearing its heart on its sleeve, leaning into how Michael Burnham’s (and the show’s) emphasis on exploring characters (and their feelings) is a source of strength, with the outsider Rayner offering an opposing view for her to argue with and prove the point.
Sonequa Martin-Green and Callum Keith Rennie had to carry the episode, the series star doing a bit of double duty having to play her younger self. The actress, along with excellent stunt choreography, really drove home the episode theme. This episode finally gave Anthony Rapp something to do, as it also explored how much Paul Stamets has evolved through the series, getting him to bring back some of his old gruff self to clear out his lab. An arc regarding his grappling with the morality of the Progenitor tech is starting to take shape. Rapp’s scene with Tig Notaro was a lot of fun, as was Reno’s interaction with Rayner. Both scenes gave the engineer some more layers, although it still remains unclear who is in charge as the show continues to have no interest in differentiating science and engineering onboard Disco. Martin-Green and Rapp, along with assists from Notaro and David Benjamin Tomlinson (Linus), showed good comic timing as the episode indulged in some of the fun that can be had with time travel, evoking the first season time loop episode “Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad.” While there are some similarities, “Face the Strange” had a distinct premise and theme that didn’t make it feel like a repeat of that excellent season 1 episode.
It’s not fair I am the only one to have to wear the old uniform.
It’s about time
Pulling together a time-jumping plot like this is complicated, but “Face the Strange” did it (mostly) seamlessly, jumping straight into the events of several episodes without breaking time or canon. Longtime fans get rewarded by recognizing some of the stops, such as the battle with Control and follow-up jump to the future, and Osyraa taking over the ship. We also got to see the Discovery under construction. San Francisco Shipyard has usually been depicted in Earth orbit, but perhaps the prototype nature of the ship explains why it was built in the actual San Francisco. They did have some fun with Burnham and Rayner navigating the past ship in their bold red uniforms, with Linus hanging a lantern on that in a fun way, but it didn’t really make sense that the 23rd-century shipyard worker took them to be Starfleet brass. And Stamets also jumping but not keeping his 32nd-century uniform made sense, as established by the aforementioned “Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad,” based on his tardigrade DNA. The visit to the possible dark future was also a nice nod to the Short Treks episode “Calypso” to show that when left alone, Zora will turn to old musicals for comfort. Once the pattern started, fans are likely to anticipate who else may pop up, so it was smart to explain the lack of Lorca right away upon arrival in early season 1, a key time period to nail the episode theme. The return of Airiam was suitably emotional, with Hannah Cheesman putting in a strong performance; however, Michael using the dead officer’s sacrifice as a way to convince everyone she traveled from the future didn’t really land, as any good Starfleet officer would do the same, given the stakes. But all in all, fans of time travel should enjoy this episode, which holds up to the difficult standards of temporal scrutiny.
Being waylaid through time did put the main quest plot on hold for the most part, but the episode did still squeeze in some character development for Moll and L’ak in the brief flashback at the top. The season adversaries continue to add a few layers and we can even start to see nuances in each of their motivations, with L’ak showing hints he may want to get off the ride before the walls close in on them. There was also a key bit of worldbuilding and potential foreshadowing, specifically for the Breen; we even got a look at a Breen ship. After the DS9 species got name-dropped in the previous 3 episodes, they are now emerging as the big threat to the Federation and competing bidders for the Progenitor tech. Speaking of tech, there was a delightful amount of technobabble, from mentions of polarons and chronitons to the plan hinging on breaking a warp bubble. Things got nice and nerdy. Added to how the time-mastering Krenim and Temporal Cold War tied in, “Face the Strange” continues the trend of how season 5 is doing a much better job of weaving elements of Trek lore into the events of each episode.
For the last time, I was not in Ahsoka!
Final thoughts
“Face the Strange” may be the best episode of the season so far. A very Star Trek premise was just the starting point for a very Discovery story about the characters. It demonstrates that in its final season, Discovery has learned how to carry the serialized story on through stand-alone episodes. Season 5 continues to deliver on its promises of a positive pivot into adventure without losing the heart of the series.
Time looping? Me?
Bits
- The episode began with a warning for flashing images.
- Doug Jones is not credited in this episode. The shot of an unconscious Saru is likely from previously unseen footage shot for the episode “Far From Home.” The audio for the “This is commander Saru, all decks prepare for impact” announcement was taken from that episode.
- The weapons dealer was Annari, previously only seen in the Delta Quadrant on Voyager.
- In addition to Hannah Cheesman, the episode also featured the return of Ronnie Rowe Jr. as Bryce.
- In the dark future, Zora was listening to the Doris Day song “Que Sera, Sera.”
- Reno warns Stamets that if he buries his mind in the abstract he could turn into a Rothko painting, referring 20th century abstract artist Mark Rothko.
- Stamets mentions calibrating his chronotron stabilizer to “Scaravelli’s Constant,” which is possibly a reference to Vanda Scaravelli, a pioneer in introducing the practice of yoga to the West.
- Rayner proved he knew Rhys by talking about his admiration of Constitution class ships, which he learned during his 20-word crew briefings in the previous episode.
- Reno and Rayner share a love for Vesper Martinis, a cocktail invented for James Bond.
That’s Reno, Jett Reno.
More to come
Every Friday, the TrekMovie.com All Access Star Trek Podcast covers the latest news in the Star Trek Universe and discusses the latest episode. The podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Stitcher and is part of the TrekMovie Podcast Network.
The fifth and final season of Discovery debuted with two episodes on Thursday, April 4 exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., the UK, Switzerland, South Korea, Latin America, Germany, France, Italy, Australia, and Austria. Discovery will also premiere on April 4 on Paramount+ in Canada and will be broadcast on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel in Canada. The rest of the 10-episode final season will be available to stream weekly on Thursdays. Season 5 debuts on SkyShowtime in select European countries on April 5.
Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
Great episode i really enjoyed watching it and it had a lot of good character moments.
I loved the references to the Krenim and the temporal wars and I’m not surprised they invented a weapon like the time bug which can seriously mess up a Star-ship that way.
I enjoyed seeing the old uniforms again as i missed them.
Overall it was again a great episode it is one of my favorites of Discovery and one of the best episodes in Modern Trek. Looking forward to the next episode.
Other than Year of Hell, this feels like another episode of Voyager too, one in which Janeway and Chakotay jump through different time periods. Which one was that?
Shattered?
Exactly right
Yeah. I hadn’t finished reading the article when I made that post. It does cite that episode.
Ah, Shattered.
“still squeeze in some character development for Moll and L’ak”
Huh? Moll and L’ak have had no character development at all. They’ve continued Star Trek’s villain problem, as evident in previous Discovery seasons, as well as in all three seasons of Picard. That said, this was better than I’d expected, and really wasn’t the Groundhog’s Day ripoffI it looked like in the preview. Connecting this episode to the Krenim and the Temporal Wars was a very cool idea, as it went far toward making something ridiculous like a time bug more plausible.
While SMG’s acting really hasn’t improved much–she’s still just as needlessly whispery as she’s always been–seeing season-one Burnham again was surprisingly fun! I agree with your criticisms of the plot holes, though. The Airiam and Linus scenes, while nostalgic in the first and humorous in the second, didn’t make any logical sense.
All in all, this season has been very, very good, despite the lackluster villains. I’ve often been critical of Discovery for its lack of logic, excessive whispering, and near-complete lack of characterization for anyone not named Michael or Saru. And I’ve really not enjoyed the past two seasons because the 32nd century is weirdly uninteresting. This season is fun, though. I hope they can stick the landing, as we’re nearly at the half-point already, and not much has happened.
Unlike Season 3’s poor development of Osyraa as a villain, I think what’s happening with Moll and L’ak is intentional. We know Moll has a familial connection to Book’s namesake. We also know she’s incredibly driven, while it seems L’ak would be content to find a quiet corner of the galaxy to settle down. My guess is we will get an “All About Moll and L’ak” episode in a couple weeks. I like how they’re handing their character development so far.
poor Zora!
I really hope she doesn’t end up alone.
We already know she ends up alone.
Unless the events of Calypso were one of the ‘dreams’ Zora references. Some sites are suggesting Calypso was a dream after this episode.
Doesn’t the episode imply that successfully stopping Moll and L’ak will prevent them all from dying and leaving her alone? That was how I read it.
Yes, it does.
The Rothko line was priceless…
I usually hate on Discovery but that was a fun episode. Of course, I LOLed when Michael paused her time sensitive mission to have a “I love you” moment with Book, and another one when she’s gently stroking umm, herself in the hallway. But other than Discovery being Discovery in stupid ways like that, I enjoyed the episode. Plus, Stamets finally got some screen time.
Yeah, Stamets has been sorely underutilized ever since season two. I don’t know why–he’s one of the few great characters this show has, yet they rarely use him.
I’ll be honest, I don’t really love Anthony Rapp’s acting on camera. He’s a bit mannered and never feels quite natural, whereas on stage he’s so clearly at home and is a joy to watch. So Stamets isn’t always my thing, even though I like how he’s part of a healthy couple and I do enjoy a tetchy engineer-type in Trek. But I think he was well-used this time out!
This is one of the rare times in the past 7 years when the episode itself lived up to the pre-episode hype. Enjoyed it.
Same. This season has done a lot of overall things right. The dips into canon work in a really good way… fan service is not unwelcome, I just want it to feel organic and it does here. One really good example is how they used the Soong Android. I feel like they would have tried to make him another offshoot of Data / Lore / B4 de age Brent Spiner in previous seasons. This is far more interesting. The way they’ve done the ties into the TNG episode this is based on.. I’m digging it so far. I was bored while they were on Trill, but this one is seriously good. Gotta give credit where it’s due.
At least DSC is respecting its OWN canon.
My nitpicky issues regarding writing, etc, remain.
That said, I enjoyed the ep.
The fight choreography was great. Finally, Burnham kicks some butt!
The moment near the end of the episode, when Burnham and Raynham start to “get each other,” is a nice touch. I’d like to see that relationship continue to develop. (I thought the 20-word thing was silly)
A great surprise to see Airiam. I didn’t see that one coming.
Well, six eps more to go.
I hope they can maintain the momentum.
I really enjoyed this episode. Much better than the first three by quite some way IMO. I’m also enjoying the Burnham Rayner partnership. Hope the series maintains this energy and fun for the rest of the season.
Not a Discovery fan but absolutely loved this, they kicked it out the park.
So happy to hear you say that Keith!
I’m glad you liked it but it didn’t work for me. All of the time travel was too similar and didn’t really feel like time travel. Yes they referenced a lot of things, but especially there they dropped the ball for me. They had so many opportunities to actually cut in scenes from said episodes, but they were just talking about them in stead of showing it. So many opportunities for cameos, but they waited till the 3/4 mark to finally give us Ariam and Bryce, in quite a weird scene by the way. It was a 7/10 for me.
Best thing of the episode for me was Rayner’s arc progressing. He’s really good and yes, he’s giving off Shaw vibes. By the way: did his ears grow since the last episode?
I thought his ears looked sharper.
Yeah, I thought in a few shots they stuck out way more than before. Glad it wasn’t just me.
Here’s the thing about repeating Trek / Sci Fi tropes. At the end of the day, how original can you make it? The best I feel like I can hope for is they make it feel organic and interesting. I’ve railed on inorganic fan service before… but here it’s actually working. If a trope or fan service is in service of the story, then I just don’t feel like I can complain to much. So far, this is working.
Solid. Definitely reminiscent of a bunch of Voyager time travel shenanigans, but when it comes to high concept sci-fi, that’s borrowing from some of the best.
Good use of humor, Stamets, and Rayner’s character progression didn’t feel too cloying. Burnham wasting precious time giving her unconscious self a pep talk was a bit much.
Best episode in a very long time, serving as a good refresher on the journey this crew/ship has been on.
A good episode, but I think there was just a little bit too much technobabble. Also, when Rhys and young Burnham had phasers on Stamets near the end, why couldn’t the bridge crew have just beamed them away?
I wondered why Ariam didn’t just order them to stand down. She was in command.
Excellent point! Dramatic license, I guess…
Honestly I think this is my favorite one of the season so far. I’m always a sucker for time travel stories and always like weird trippy Star Trek. This one was fun and yes clearly took it’s cues from Voyager’s Shattered; which I think is a still better episode than this one overall but this was a very close second. And way better than the last episode which I didn’t like at all.
It’s also funny in the latest Kurtzman article discussing how much the old shows did a lot of filler episodes and/or bottle shows and this one did clearly both. But as said it’s fine when it’s GOOD. I did like seeing how much Burnham has developed and how far she’s come in this time. I still think being a Captain from a mutineer is ridiculous but whatever it’s Star Trek don’t overthink it.
And also Burnham now joins the other famous Star Trek trope of Captains interacting with some other version of themselves through time travel (usually) or cloning or something.
She now joins the club with Kirk, Picard, Janeway and Pike. :)
There were certainly problems with it and the technobabble made little sense to me but minor issues. I’ll probably have to watch it again to spot any big red flags.
Overall Discovery this season has been really fun and a treat to watch IMO. Not amazing but solid (outside episode 3 for me).. But I have been down this transwarp corridor several times already, so hoping it can sustain it.
Despite Season 5 being quite good, it looks like many, at least on this board, have checked out.
If the total number of posts is an indicator, it may be an issue of “too little, too late”. I understand why many may not be watching the final season of Discovery (even I forgot the new episode was out yesterday) – but I hope not, because IMHO last night was a perfect example of a good Star Trek episode.
Someone mentioned this before with the opening episode review thread as well and yeah the posts are WAY down.
And it’s not just here either. Other places like Trekcre, Reddit etc are also a lot smaller now.
It is a shame but I think it proves a lot of people have basically lost interest in the show overall. And it probably doesn’t help being off the air for basically two years either.
But you can’t spin it. A year ago this time Picard season 3 was getting literally hundreds of posts every episode. There was huge interest in it for obvious reasons. Certainly not the case with this show now even with the positive fanfare so far.
Yep that was me!
And I thought maybe it was just a weird fluke or something and the next few episodes the discussions would become higher again. Nope they only become worse and over other discussion boards in general.
What does it say when an article about finding a lost model of the original Enterprise from 40 years ago literally has twice the posts of a brand new Trek episode…one that most fans seem to love including myself? Trekcor has only a dozen posts discussing it right now and it’s been out two days.
I think what DeanH said is on the money, just too little too late and probably not a surprise why it got cancelled. They saw the writing on the wall and that fans were losing a lot of interest in the show.
I think posts are down because fans, like me, are tired of all the hate and bashing going on. I rarely read the posts or want to comment on the due to the high negativity. But I do read all the articles posted. Would be interesting to see the traffic count on here compared to the post count. I don’t think it has anything to do with people losing interest with the show, but with people not wanting to read and react to the negativity about the show.
Sorry I don’t really buy this for several reasons.
A. As I said discussion seems to down in OTHER places as well ,not just this website alone.
B. People bashed Picard for the first two seasons as much as they bashed Discovery and yet season 3 had huge interest here. Yes a big part of that was having the TNG cast back but people were generally excited about it even after how much complaining there was about season 2.
C. Most people are actually being very positive about this season so far. It looks like the ratio of positive vs negative posts seems to be overwhelming positive as this very thread has shown. So I’m not sure why people would be staying away when most people are currently being positive about it? How much hate bashing is happening on this thread? That could change later of course but people seem to be liking the season.
Now that said, sure you could still be right but I really do think Discovery has just lost interest by a lot of people; at least in terms of discussion. Maybe many are watching it. But the interest does seem to be down in most places.
Again it was probably cancelled for many reasons but the main one the show could just have less viewers today.
I used to post all the time. On this board as well as others. My participation in posting went down on all of them when the bashing started rising. I don’t even follow the other boards anymore to be honest, I follow Trek movie because I prefer the articles better. I do read every article… It will be rare that I even read the posts because I know exactly what they are before I even read them. And you’ll find that there are far more negative posts by a landslide compared to the positive ones. People like me are quite fed up with repetitive negative posts. You see the exact same thing from the exact same people….over and over and over again. Offer times in the same article? How many time can you repeat you have nostalgia and Easter eggs before people are fed up of hear the same dribble? I can’t talk for everyone, but I can definitely talk for myself. That’s the reason I post less and less each time.
Ok fine but again the problem with your argument in THIS case is that the posts have been overwhelmingly positive so what am I missing?
Let’s count them up here (easy since it’s not that many posts lol). I just counted any post that specifically stated they either liked or hated the episode.
Number of positive posts: 24
Number of negative posts: 3
It’s literally 7 times more positive remarks than negative. Again I’m not disagreeing with your basic argument, but in THIS case that doesn’t seem to be bearing out correct? In fact what’s funny is a lot of the posts are people saying they normally hate the show but still say they enjoyed this episode or season so far.
I include myself in that btw. I said I would have an open mind going in but I really wasn’t sure how I would feel since I have felt disappointed by every season so far. But I am truly enjoying it and praying to Kahless that won’t change.
So I don’t really buy this argument. Sure if it’s just a ton of nastiness and/or people going out their way to put down the show then I could see your point why others staying away. But that’s not remotely happening either. Most people seems to have a pretty positive view of the season, at least so far. And I’ll go one farther and say the people who are NOT enjoying it isn’t attacking anyone for it either or vice versa. People are just having very civil conversations no matter how you feel about it. Seriously no one is getting triggered one way or the other.
And this has been the case since the season started, but the lack of any big discussions about it is obvious; especially it being the shows last season.
On that note you should start posting again since people are pretty receptive to the season right now. It would be nice to have more discussions surrounding it and would love to hear your thoughts positive or negative.
It’s really such an odd argument. People are staying away on purpose because of all the ‘negative’ posts only those posts are in the vast minority since the season started. Even I’m being super positive lol. And as you stated even the people who isn’t liking it isn’t trying to tell others they are crazy for liking it. So what’s the problem?
I think this is another denial that some people have and can’t accept that maybe others have just lost interest in the show. That may not be the case but since it’s been cancelled it’s not exactly a shocker either that less people care about it these days.
And as said both seasons of PIC was raked through the coals and yet last season was the busiest that show ever been probably due to both having the TNG cast back and just having an amazing season overall on top of it
Maybe Discovery should’ve made a Synth Riker and put him in the season. I bet more people would be discussing it. 😂
Yeah I don’t think it’s really anything more than this. I just don’t think anyone should be that surprised IF true because yeah a lot of people really had issues with the show.
People tried to paint the picture it’s just this tiny group of haters and yet everywhere you go that division is there.
Believe it or not there are also people who think SNW sucks but it’s not nearly the same level of vocal opposition because yeah the overwhelming majority likes it and you see that everywhere.
Discovery is just not a popular show. I don’t think this is much of a hot take for a show that’s been around 7 years lol. It doesn’t mean everyone hates it obviously but when the Internet TRULY likes something you have no problem seeing that everywhere. Look at current shows like Shogun and Fallout. Those are discussed endlessly how beloved they are, at least right now.
And I haven’t seen either personally yet so I have no opinion either way but I know this because they are both being praised on every entertainment site I been on. That’s how you know something is getting a lot of hype because you can’t escape it yourself even if you never saw it.
Discovery however was super divisive from the start, that’s just the reality. And no it wouldn’t be surprising a lot of those people just finally moved on.
But maybe the show is being watched more than discussed these days.
Count me in the camp as someone who doesn’t really care anymore.. but I’ll always watch, and I’ll probably always come here to chat about it. But I’m glad we’re getting an entertaining season… so far. lol.
Last week was just incredibly busy for me so I didn’t get to chime in a timely fashion.. but I’m certainly much more chatty about it when an episode pisses me off, lol. That hasn’t happened this season.
That episode felt more “Star Trek” than any of the whole series so far.
Agreed!
I know what you mean Steve. The episode also served to remined me why I enjoyed 23rd C Discovery way more than post-jump, especially Season 2. I was all up for the trip to the far future and I thought that S3 started well but unfortunately for me at least, it fell apart and like may, I got burned by the burn so to speak.
I have to admit, this was the first time that Discovery felt like an actual episode of Star Trek! And I have watched every episode on release (for my sins). Crazy!
The episode was actually pretty good and felt like a classic bottle episode, that focused on character growth, exactly what Kurtzman was speaking against with his so-called “filler”.
I tell you what, Rayner has been a breath of fresh air. It gives the overly lovey-dovey crew a kick in the aft deck. The trio of Burnham, Raynor and Stamets worked really well in this episode.
It’s a big shame Discovery didn’t go forward into the 32nd century from the get-go. Imagine after the two part pilot they got thrust into the future? This time frame is perfect as gives the writers the freedom to create their own, new canon, without contradicting that of the 23rd century. Both narratively and visually.
If season 5 continues like this episode, we might get a decent send off to Discovery. Though might be a shame that as the show is ending, it is finally finding its feet (like TNG S3 or ENT S4 etc).
“It’s a big shame Discovery didn’t go forward into the 32nd century from the get-go. Imagine after the two part pilot they got thrust into the future? This time frame is perfect as gives the writers the freedom to create their own, new canon, without contradicting that of the 23rd century. Both narratively and visually.’
I agree with this many times over and I’m someone who basically thought the last two seasons sucked.
But it had nothing to do with the time period itself, just the bad writing surrounding it. But I think if Discovery just started in the 32nd century where it could just tell it’s own stories and not be so tied down to canon or people citing how much it conflicted with TOS it would’ve had a better reception even if they were still disappointed with it.
I guess for me I just really want to see different things. I don’t just want more TOS or TNG. Again I have to stress it doesn’t mean I don’t want to see them at all since I was a big supporter of both Picard and SNW. I’m only saying it would be nice that we finally have something that’s TRULY different from everything else and why I’m also a huge supporter of SFA (although I definitely feel like I’m in the minority on that one lol).
But I also know some fans who just want the same stuff they grew up with. I’ve seen plenty of posts from people who have said they only want Star Trek in the 23rd or 24th century because that’s what made them fans in the first place. For example, there were people generally excited about having the Kelvin movies because it gave the impression that they were wiping the slate clean just going back to TOS but ONLY TOS again and all the spin offs could just be ignored completely from that point om going forward.
I get it and being a fan since the 70s myself I understand wanting to constantly scratch the nostalgia itch. Again NOTHING wrong with that in general. It’s just entertainment and people just enjoy what they enjoy.
But I do think the MAJORITY of fans really do want to see new settings and characters and why we are getting more of it now. But there is always the belief in Hollywood it’s easier to roll the dice on something that worked before versus doing something new and different because one is obviously more guaranteed to work vs the other.
Ironically though, it’s probably a reason why the movie franchise is having a hard time starting up again because when the tried and true fails as the last Kelvin movie did then it’s even harder on taking a chance on an unknown entity with a very fickle audience base and throwing in a lot more money in the process.
Another reason why Trek is just better as a TV franchise in the end.
Missed a chance for a Lorca cameo!! How would Burnham have reacted to him knowing his shady truth?
Yeah, but maybe Isaacs wasn’t available or they didn’t have the budget just to have him there.. who knows.
I too have to admit, this was a good one and as many others have said, it “felt” like a Star Trek episode.
No use recapping the story which I thought was quite good. I really liked that they focused on three characters (Burnham, Rayner and Stamets) and did not go off track trying to include everyone else. I also liked the return of Stamets being his old cynical and direct self, yelling at people, recognizing the urgency of the situation and not having time to worry about their feelings. Him yelling at the crewmember to “GET OUT” was great!
Of course, Discovery has to always get sidetracked with some form of romantic interlude – this time it was Booker and Burnham, even though time was of the essence, she had to forget about what they were doing and pause for two minutes to steal a kiss. (eyeroll) Fortunately, that was a minor part of the episode and did not last long and things got back on track. Btw, as characters, I hope those two do end up together (I’m not heartless).
So far, S5 has been quite good. Hey writers room – see you can actually write good episodic-like stories without having to stray from the season long story arc. Let’s hope they can keep it up. Oh btw, up here north of the border, CTV Sci-Fi channel ran the Voyager two part Year from Hell last night. Nice tie in to the Krenim story.
This is exactly what Jim Kirk would do. And he has.
Does anyone know why the episode is not available in Germany yet? The first three eps were available right when they were supposed to but still no sign of ep 4…
Some of you bitch about SMG’s acting as one note, but I have to say, she was pretty great on this episode. Maybe the contrast of old her vs younger her made it more obvious but I thought she did an exceptional job this episode.
She’s been good since the first episode. I haven’t always liked the way Burnham was written, but I’ve rarely had a problem with the way Martin-Green played her. I hope the end of this season won’t be the last we see of her in the role.
This is a great episode for the final season because it really does remind you how much has happened and how far the crew has evolved. I immediately wanted to re-watch the entire series.
It kind of gave me that feeling too, which is saying something because I didn’t like the first three seasons much at all. It’s true, though; and I hope whenever I get around to that rewatch, I find out I was wrong all along. I’d love that!
This episode felt like a lot of fun. I really love time loop episodes. And this was a cool new take on them. For a bottle show I was thoroughly entertained. Burnham and Rayner, Stamets and Reno, Burnham and Airiam… there were some great pairings in this episode.
I really enjoyed this filler episode. I think it felt a lot like a Voyager inspired episode and it even mentions the Krenim.
I also liked seeing the contrast of past and present versions of Burnham, but was she really that aggressive in the beginning? I’ll have to go back and watch the first season again, but she seemed more like the mirror universe version of her past self.
Oh, and the technobabble was so wonderfully Star Trek. I’m glad they weren’t afraid to include some. I love seeing the characters use their expertise in and mastery of their fictional technologies to solve problems. I’m watching a show about the future where such amazing technology exists after all. I like when they explain how it is all supposed to work.
I hope the rest of the season is this good.
An excellent episode, I thought. The way they handled the Krenim Easter egg was perfect. Strong character dynamics, too.
Did the colors look weird to anyone else? I can’t put my finger on it, but it seemed like something weird was going on with Paramount+ when I watched.
Worst episode of the season so far
The bridge crew are lifeless characters with zero personality and any storyline which involves them suffers heavily! Also thought Michael was back to her annoying best whispering every line. even Rayner couldn’t save this one.
I would agree that a distinguishing feature of Discovery in comparison to other iterations of ST is that the bridge crew are almost invisible and that ~4.5 seasons in, we know almost nothing about them. I don’t know why the writers have taken this route but for me personally, it’s had the effect of making it difficult for me to really bond with this ship and crew. I felt I had more connection with the bridge crew of the Titan and that was after only 3-4 episodes!
Well they actually made it worse in seasons 3 and 4 when they tried to give them more dialogue, because it was clumsy things like, “I used to kite surf!” “Thanks for letting me lead this important away mission entirely offscreen while we follow your storyline instead,” “I am upset and being unprofessional in a crisis because I couldn’t save my friend years ago!” or “I love you all!” And then the show would condescendingly have characters tell us how great Detmer or Bryce are. It’s lazy and clunky, and worse than when it was just more of a deliberate creative choice to emphasize them in seasons 1-2. But this halting approach is not great. Give them meaningful snippets of development and personality and it will make them endearing and feel real. But if they are just here to look worried, laugh/clap, spout technobabble, and be propped up by the main characters, it’s just not my thing.
Shortened seasons leave little room for character development. With 26 episodes per season sometimes the character story was the A story and the B story was something like a comet or an asteroid, as a backdrop.
But you could generate character development from the A-story, apart from the what are the odds coincidences of meeting rikers father or Worfs brother leading some refugees. Take Li Nalas for example. You could learn about Kira from how she viewed him, reacted to him, talked. Lots of Dialogue. DSC Season 3 was about the burn, no personal experiences of the crew would fit that, then the dark matter anomaly, also nothing people could maybe share an experience (but it could have been worked in, from somebody remembering some dark matter survey or something), season 4 now theyre on the hunt for some technology from a throwaway stand alone TNG episode, and well none of the crew had a long dialogue scene talking about some excavations or something they might have taken part in.
TLDR not just shortened seasons but missed opportunities by writers as well.
Anybody else didnt feel anything when starfleet headquarters was shown destroyed?
I felt a little sorrow for Zora at least.
Has anyone posted a proper look at the Breen ship from the alt future? It just looked like a jumble of debris. Discovery has never been very good about delivering the ship p*rn. I needed a lovely cutaway after Burnham asked about the ship!
Yeah it was hard to distinguish with Starfleet headquarters.
Does anybody know of anyone that posts lists of episodes to prepare for the latest episodes? Like a pre-game episode checklist to better understand all of the references and Easter eggs? I really like to catch everything when I watch a new episode, but it’s hard when they reference so much stuff across the franchise history, some of which I haven’t seen in decades. I often just read the reviews on here and figure out what I need to watch, but that means I read all the spoilers with it. It would be cool if there was something that just told me what to watch beforehand. Anybody aware of something like this, and if not, would anybody want to do it?
Trekc0re’s reviews pick up a decent bit of that.
Probably one of my favorite Discovery episodes to date. Probably because it felt like a classic trek episode of any era, as others have mentioned.
For any other Star Trek show, it would be a sub par episode, nice idea, poor execution, but for Discovery standards I get that this is the best we can get out of this soap opera in space. So after 3 horrible episodes, here something at least watchable without feel nauseated.
I had forgotten how irrational and psychotically incompetent S1 Burnham was.