‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Showrunner Promises Shift In Tone For Season 5 With Action, Adventure, And Fun

(Getty)

The fifth season of Star Trek: Discovery is finishing up production now, and a first look was shared by Paramount+ at New York Comic Con over the weekend. Showrunners Michelle Paradise and Alex Kurtzman were in New York along with members of the cast  (and star Sonequa Martin-Green beamed in from the set in Toronto) to preview the changes in store for the show, which includes a new tone and some new characters.

Season 5 is about adventure and a quest

While in New York, executive producer Michelle Paradise talked to EW about how after saving the galaxy from an apocalypse (again) last season, the show is changing the tone for season 5.

Paradise: We do have a bit of a tonal shift this season. We try to keep every season feeling fresh and new. Coming into the season, Alex and I talked about shifting the tone a little bit because there was a bit of heaviness in season 3 and particularly in 4 with the DMA. So this is more of an action-adventure sort of season. There is a mystery. There’s a quest, and this mysterious power… It is a quest that our heroes are on and they do have a chance to go on quite a few adventures this season, which will be fun.

Wilson Cruz (Dr. Culber) told EW this adventure is going to take the show to new places.

I think what’s beautiful about this season is that it gives us another opportunity to come together as this team that we’ve developed. And everybody has to bring their A-game in order to solve this mystery. And we get to travel a lot more through the galaxy… and go to places we’ve never seen before. It’s exciting.

Cruz talked more about this shift during the Star Trek Universe panel.

Cruz: Every season we have a bit of a shift in tone… and this season even more so. We’re on an adventure, truly an adventure. And you really see everybody step up and use their strengths in order to solve a mystery, truly. But each of them is also discovering even more of themselves… But what I love most is just this quest that we’re on, and how we come together as a team to solve it. I honestly—I swear I say this every season—but I think it’s the best season we’ve ever had.

Rod Roddenberry asked Michelle Paradise about a moment during the new trailer that appeared to show Captain Burnham on the top of the ship, which she confirmed, saying that was an example of the kind of thing to expect in season 5.

Yes, that was Sonequa riding on top of a starship while it was at warp. [Sarcastic] It’s a very low-key season. Not much happens. There’s no action or adventure except for that one moment.

From NYCC trailer

Callum Keith Rennie joins as a gruff captain

The panel also revealed some new cast joining the show, including Callum Keith Rennie (Battlestar Galactica, Umbrella Academy) as Starfleet Captain Rayner. Michelle Paradise offered some more detail on his character.

Paradise: Captain Rayner is a captain of a different starship. He’s a bit of a gruff captain and he’s got some things to learn and so he will learn those things.

Actor Anthony Rapp (Commander Paul Stamets) talked about how this gruff captain adds a new chemistry to the show.

Rapp: She described his character as gruff. Callum himself is gruff. He’s a lovable teddy-bear gruff, but it’s like a wonderful new piece of the recipe for the show. Because Sonequa is lightest light of the world, and then Callum’s like [gruff voice], “Are we going to do the scene now or what?” And so the mixture of their chemistry is really wonderful to see how they bounce off of each other. He’s a wonderful actor and a just a great person to be around has it has been one of the most enjoyable aspects of the new season. So I think you’ll like him.

Callum Keith Rennie as Raynor

Moll and L’ak are 32nd-century Bonnie and Clyde

Also joining this season are Eve Harlow as Moll and Elias Toufexis as L’ak. Paradise gave a little more detail on how they will come into conflict with the Discovery crew.

Moll and L’ak, they are a bit of a Bonnie and Clyde kind of characters this season and former couriers… Let’s just say they come into conflict with our heroes.

Elias Toufexis as L’ak and Eve Harlow as Moll

Challenging the characters

The showrunners talked about how season 5 offers a new opportunity to challenge the show’s characters.

Kurtzman: The fact is that we do kind of choose a different flavor for every season, but have a very consistent throughline. And the consistent throughline is watching our characters evolve together. From the beginning, the title Discovery was chosen for a reason, because we wanted it to be about each character’s evolution, and their evolution as a family and they’ve gone through so much together… We’ve settled into this incredible groove this season. Five years on a show together is a long time. And it’s a long time to get to know each other as characters, it’s also a long time to get to know each other as people. And I think that the intimacy and the ease that the characters have with each other is a reflection of how amazing this cast is and how much they love each other… It’s lovely to, having obviously been on from the beginning, to feel this incredible journey of these characters who have stepped into a more confident place by season 5.

Paradise (via EW): At the beginning of every season, one of the things that we do in addition to talking about what is our big story for the season, what are we doing thematically, those sorts of things. We go through and we talk about each of our characters and what do we want them to experience the season. And how does their character arc relate to the thematic stuff that we’re exploring. And it’s really important for us that every actor, every season, we get to push those characters forward and give all of our wonderful actors new things to play and new challenges. We never want them to be bored, obviously. And also these characters are so fascinating and the way our actors play them it’s just wonderful to see.

Wilson Cruz backed her up.

Cruz (via EW): Definitely not boring me, especially this season. They throw some stuff at me which tells me that they have confidence that I can do it. But sometimes they’ll send me something and I’m like, “Whoa, okay. I need a minute with that one.”

On the panel, he offered more about Culber’s arc for season 5.

Cruz: Culber is asking big questions again. He’s a person who—since he’s come back to life—has really been learning who he really is and owning all of that. And some of it is a little uncomfortable in relationships, but how we navigate that is also been really exciting to play.

Anthony Rapp gave an update on Stamets for the season as well as his relationship with Culber.

Rapp: We’re in a pretty good place. We got our little sort of—to say child feels demeaning now because Adira has grown up a bit—but our charge, but our child. Stamets is on a little bit of trying to figure out the next what new path of scientific exploration. So that’s really interesting because, for him, science is not just about “Ooh, cool ideas.” It’s actually his reason for being. So yeah, searching for the thing that will plug him into the next passionate course of his life is a really cool thing to be a part of.

Embed from Getty Images

Burnham digs deep in season 5… and it’s “complicated” with Book

Sonequa Martin-Green (Captain Michael Burnham) talked about how the season’s quest will impact Burnham and the crew as characters.

Martin-Green: Everybody is meeting themselves. There’s a confrontation that’s happening with all of us. There’s a confrontation with Burnham and all the other characters that we’re having to make those tough decisions about who we really are and who we really are together because of this mystery. And because of this adventure in a new way, in a deeper way, in a more profound way than we’ve ever seen. I give so much respect to the writers for this season. Because we really do dig deeper than we ever have.

Sonequa also gave a preview of what’s in store for Burnham and Book:

Martin-Green: Oh my. It’s complicated. It’s like that old Facebook status. What they gonna do? I love it, because you see this conflict between mission and love. This conflict between duty and romance. And how do they fit in? And I think that line between professional and personal crossing over and blending is really fascinating. And you see that in a lot of ways. You see that with other characters as well. Them coming up against, “Well, am I going to stand for what I stand for, even if it costs me what’s most important to me?” Because that’s the mark of a true hero… That’s what makes this real and authentic. And even with Burnham too, it’s not a cakewalk. You see how hard it is to be a captain and what it really costs to sacrifice and be that sacrificial leader. And I love that across the board. You’ve got these people that are just willing to sacrifice at all. We’re all really excited for y’all to see what we have this season. It’s deep.

Alex Kurtzman talked about how the show will continue to explore what it means for Burnham to be a captain.

And for Burnham, I think the thing that I’m most excited about is that getting the captain’s chair is one thing, but learning what it means to be a captain is a constantly evolving process.

Embed from Getty Images

Musical episode? Maybe

During the Q&A, a fan wondered if there was going to be a musical episode, given that the show has a Broadway star like Anthony Rapp in its cast. Before executive producer Alex Kurtzman could answer, Martin-Green and Cruz jumped in to add their voices to the request.

Martin-Green: Please! Because both of them are heroes. Anthony and Wilson… Please, Michelle. Please Alex. Please can we have them sing?

Cruz: We’ve only been asking for it for five years.

Kurtzman: Nothing would make me happier than to do a Star Trek musical. Let me just say anything is possible. How about that?

Embed from Getty Images

Season 5 first look

In case you missed it, here is the season 5 trailer released at NYCC.  [International version at startrek.com]

There is no release date yet for Discovery season 5. Seasons 1 through 4 are currently streaming exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S. Internationally, the series is available on Paramount+ in Australia, Italy, Latin America, the U.K. and South Korea, as well as on Pluto TV in Austria, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Switzerland on the Pluto TV Sci-Fi channel. It will also stream exclusively on Paramount+ in Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland and Austria later this year. In Canada, it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.

More Star Trek from NYCC

The panel is over but there is more coverage to come, so keep coming back to TrekMovie.com for all the latest from NYCC 2022. See more of our NYCC coverage here.


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Discovery has waffled from overly dense episodes in Season 1 and 2, to extremely plot thin episodes throughout Season 4. For me Season 4 was the hardest to watch because I found it tedious and boring. For me that is the greatest challenge to overcome for Season 5, they need way more story and plot to fill the season and without a major change in producing, I doubt this will happen.

Yeah, season four was a snooze-fest. They had about five episodes’ worth of story there, yet it was spread over 13 episodes.

The thing that makes me sad is the idea behind season 4 could have been great but they turned it into a snooze fest by making it too much about Burnham and Book and that other guy and not enough about the actual mystery or the aliens. And once we find the aliens and they might actually be cool its like, ok, season over, bye.

The reason for that is they are writing a soap opera, not science fiction. In TOS and TNG, the characters served the stories. Now the stories serve the characters. Folks like Laurie U. prefer it that way; I don’t.

I actually rather loved s4. It felt quintessentially Trek to me and I loved how it reminded me a lot of TMP, my favourite Trek film. There was a bit of padding admittedly, and it could have been cut a couple episodes shorter…although it was nowhere NEAR as stretched as the mess that was PIC S2. I really missed Tilly a lot, though. The show needed her spark, especially with Gerorgiou gone.

More than “a bit” of padding. It might have been more impressive as a 8-show arc. Look to THE QUEEN’S GAMBIT as a model.

Season 4 didn’t feel like any Trek to me, but with your mention of TMP, I would have preferred 13 episodes of Kirk and Scotty flying a shuttle around the newly refit Enterprise instead of what Discovery gave us.

Maybe season 5 will finally be the season they win me over since their trip to the future.

I loved season four, as well; and hated the first three.

That is the thing about season 4 to me, it was the most Trek-y of all the seasons so far. They didn’t overly rely on some villain who wanted to take down the galaxy. The concept of Species 10c actually felt original. The idea of the DMA felt ambitious. It did carry a TMP vibe. They came up with a really solid idea but I was so bored by the end I just no longer cared once we got there (hey it really did feel like TMP after all ;)).

The biggest problem is the pacing was horrific There were episodes that felt like it had 10 minutes of plot stretched into 50.. The characters, per usual, did questionable things that was done just to keep the plot going. There were things done that still made no sense. I still don’t buy Book and Tarka wasn’t captured by the second episode because their escape episode after episode felt more ridiculous and unrealistic.

For me the best episode was “…But to connect” Even though nothing really happened in that episode either other than taking a vote on how to engage with Species 10c and if Zora should be treated as a life or not, I was enthralled by it. Once again, it was very Trek-y in the best way possible. It was just people in rooms grappling with an issue. A lot of great questions and debate was raised on how to deal with something they admitted they didn’t quite understand in both stories. It was the first time we have seen the Federation come together to deal with an issue, but in this case it was not just the Federation but galaxy wide. Not a single phaser was fired. And both issues were resolved in a very Federation way. I thought it was all great.

Unfortunately what I thought was setting up a really great second half season just became deflating because it was clear there was just not enough story to feel compelling going forward.

I loved the way the aliens were presented in the S4 finale. They went so big, literally. And, as I wrote above, thats the problem. We got such an awesome idea and got no time at all to explore it because we wasted so much time chasing Book and that other guy and dealing with so much relationship angst while the fate of 2 of the federation founding worlds are at stake,

I wanted to explore of more of who these strange new life forms were. I wanted to know more about the Omega particles and such that we never knew in VOY. I wanted some seriously fun geek stuff that only Star Trek can deliver. More ET. Less 90210.

Yeah this is what was so frustrating about last season. They presented so many interesting and cool ideas and yet they stretched it all out to fill time and sadly filled it with a lot of unneeded melodrama. This show constantly goes that direction just too much to the point of eye rolling.

Waiting until the last episode to introduce Species 10c was a mistake. I think we learn about them in episode 5, but we don’t actually see them for 8 more episodes in the finale. Like seriously??? That’s what the audience wants to see, to learn about these creatures and build on that. I did really like the fact they turned out to be really nice too! :)

But instead we had to get through multiple filler episodes of time wasting plots of Book and Tarka running around the galaxy to blow up the something that controls the DMA (I really can’t remember the name) where Species 10c lives, which felt so silly on its own considering how massively advance this species was. They spent 3 episodes trying to destroy the DMA and once they did, they replaced it with another one in an hour. That should’ve at least told Book maybe just making a bigger bomb is not the solution either. But that’s what I mean by having the characters do illogical things because you have to keep the plot going. And he should’ve turned on Tarka the second Tarka went against his wish and bombed the DMA. But he stuck with him anyway for some illogical reason.

Ya DIS S4 and PIC S2 suffered from the same dilemma. both were way too long and the story suffered as a result because they put way too much filler in there and some of us just lost interest in the story as the weeks went on finally waiting for the answer. Then we got it for one fraction of a second and poof.

How sad is it to know I was actually happy when it was announced Discovery was getting less episodes this season? Most fans are begging for more episodes of a show, especially for SNW. But with Discovery, 13 episodes is clearly waaaaaay too many as the last two seasons proved.

They just don’t know how to write a compelling story arc that can go all season. They stretch the big mystery to practically the very end of the season unlike GOOD shows that builds on the mystery with strong plots, compelling drama and character arcs every episode. Not just dangle stuff with melodrama just to keep people watching to the point of boredom.

The irony is it was considered a good thing when Star Trek finally returned to TV that we were getting less episodes than the classic shows and a serialized season in the process because it meant there would be no filler and every story would matter. Sadly both Picard and Discovery has proven that theory very wrong. We’re getting just as much filler with these stories that runs out of gas before they even make it to the finale and it’s only 10-13 episodes! Something is wrong there.

The thing is if you are going to do a season long story, 13 really is too much. She-Hulk is 9 eps in it’s first season and as much as I like Marvel even I think that was too much. Obi Wan was a little too short at 6. I think 7 or 8 is the sweet spot. SNW works in a longer format, even longer than 10, because it’s not going to get old if you aren’t putting all your eggs in one pot.

Now this is an idea I had when the season was running and I think would’ve been a better way to fill the second half and not really change the direction they were already going in, just a little grander and interesting IMO obviously. But instead of just two guys trying to blow up the DMA, make it a planet that objected to tying to talk to them. It could be a known species or better yet someone brand new. And a species who just rejoined the Federation but threatening to leave it again over the decision. Think of someone like the Kligons. It doesn’t HAVE to be the Klingons, just a group like that: Aggressive, overemotional, irrational and prone to violence whenever the time comes for it. Someone the Klingons can be proud of lol.

And maybe because the DMA destroyed one their planet’s moons that killed thousands if not millions of people living on it and a vast resource to their livlihood. Instead of the first episode having the Federation trying to save the space station, instead it would’ve been trying to save people from the moon and it was too late; setting up the crisis for the second half. And maybe Book joins with them and now the Federation has to try and stop them from destroying Species 10c. So we have REAL stakes now, not only do we have an alien species that has vast resources and fire power that wants to find where Species 10c is and wipe them out, they are threatening to leave the Federation and even go to war with them over it if the Federation tries to stop them.

So now you have the second half of the season filled with political conflict brewing and two sides trying to find and get to Species 10c first while engaging in combat with Discovery as they hop from place to place to figure out where they are and how to get there. And not just two guys on a ship with no real resources but somehow manages to elude the entire Federation in the process.

And the ending could’ve stayed close to what we got. Discovery stops the other species from attacking Species 10c, they learn it was all just an accident, the other species accepts it was and decides they want to stay in the Federation, everyone has a nice cry about it and they all go home. And Book still has a change of heart and sacrifices his life to stop them but is brought back to life as before because Star Trek.

Something that not just up the stakes a little more, but gives us another new species to explore and also tie in to the season theme of rebuilding the Federation and nearly tearing apart just as it was starting. They just could’ve done so much more than what we were given story wise.

I like that idea and the idea of humanity and the Federation becoming allies with much much more powerful and more advanced species like 10C. One of the things that wanted to see happen in the 32nd century was not just such an advancement in technology but an advancement in what humanity has become to such a degree that beings such as the Q and the Trelane or the Organians would finally accept us as equals. But instead we are still just on starships still stuck in the milky way still friends with the same old species, etc. etc. etc.

I think it would’ve at least added another layer to the season and that the threat of the DMA isn’t just about threatening the galaxy but the fiber of the Federation as well. This time it’s no uber-villain trying to wipe it out on purpose, the crisis itself creates an internal issue because so many planets have been isolated for so long, they have just become autonomous again and it becomes about learning to have trust in the system again, working together, violence is not the first answer, etc, etc. But watching Tarka trying to get to his alien buddy in a parallel universe was compelling television obviously.

As for your point about humans, it’s really funny you mention that because I remember when people were giving arguments why you shouldn’t go forward in the timeline again, that was one of the biggest issues, that future humans would feel and act “unrelatable” because they would have either evolved into a different species, become a transhumanist of some kind or their intelligence has risen too high to understand them. And they weren’t even talking about the 32nd century, most were saying if the show went 100 years post-Nemesis or something lol.

And my argument to counter those were always the same: It’s a TV show!!! It’s not real people! It’s utterly made up ho-kum. The writers are going to make the humans as ‘relatable’ as they went because it’s fictional entertainment, it’s not trying to present an actual reality of the future. If that was the case, then TOS should’ve been wiped away from canon about 30 years ago already lol. So 100 years or 1,000 years into the future humans are still going to be just be people like today on Star Trek. Maybe more ‘enlightened’ or something but people you can still just have a beer with even if that beer is now generated from hair follicles or something. And yes, that was proven very right.

Now THAT said, I understand your point and I don’t really disagree. I think what they could’ve done was present different level of humans because we been living all over the galaxy for centuries now. Most would just be like us. Others could have evolved somewhat differently living in a different planet for a thousand years. We could see more human cyborgs who has splintered off from humanity and now live very differently in their own societies as more machine like (but NOT the Borg ;)). And yes maybe even suggest some has reached a higher plane and they can now see the Great Koala on their own! ;D

In all seriousness, it’s sci fi, make up whatever you want, that was one of the best advantages of sending the ship so far into the future. But they kept humans pretty much human lol. What I don’t personally get is at the very least there should be more Synths like Soji just walking around. That technology was founded in the 24th century so we should just see more humanoid androids at least and maybe they have also formed their own society. It’s really odd to me that they would have regressed so far back on AI technology that Gray is the first Synth in centuries. It makes no sense.

But maybe we will see other forms of them. Remember they have barely explored the 32nd century and there are probably THOUSANDS of human colonies out there that hasn’t been touched in a century due to the Burn. So the possibilities are still there to see some radical changes if they decide to do it.

But I’m not surprised most would just be run-in-mill people since like 90% of the ‘aliens’ in Star Trek act completely human even if they look differently on the outside. Because again, it’s a TV show, not an astrobiology documentary.

I think there could have been a happy middle ground. Like I’m not saying per se that humanity should have evolved into being Q or anything like that. But OTOH, people should start having the life expectancy of Guinan, start having the abilities of Betazoids, etc… They don’t have to have all the abilities of Superman but they shouldn’t be as limited as Batman either. I think it would have been cool to show the crew of Discovery living in a society how they have to adapt to a world where they are limited and at the same time having the world around them relearning what was so special about where they came from and part of the humanity they might have lost when they evolved.

What I liked about Daniels is that there was something very secret about him in Enterprise. Sure he LOOKED human and acted human and seemed to come from Earth. And sure his abilities seemed to be technological but there just seemed to be *something* more to him that we couldn’t place our fingers on.

As for the technology, not only should they be walking through walls like daniels or walking through doors and traveling lightyears like Iconians, they should have Dyson’s spheres everywhere, Starbases the size of Jupiter powered by artificially created stars, And for the love of Khaless they should be in other galaxies by now that look WAY different than Milkey Way in some awesome ways.

Yeah I agree. They could’ve found a middle ground. As I said, it would have made sense to see humans evolve to some level beyond what we have on Trek in the 23rd and 24th centuries. For whatever reason, they didn’t want to go there on the show but it doesn’t mean we won’t ever see any enhanced humans on the show. I hope they go that direction at some point.

And Daniels was the perfect example. He was more than just human and he probably had more abilities, at least some enhanced ones. I think he was a Temporal Agent for a reason because he had abilities beyond basic humans.

And he was also still a very relatable guy that despite being a thousand years from the future and all his advance tech was someone you could’ve grew up next door with in our century.

And I don’t disagree with you about Federation technology. Yes they could’ve gone bigger with it both figuratively and literally. I would love to see a Enterprise J size starship for example. But a lot of this could be a budget issue too. I don’t know obviously but I would like to see some of that kind of stuff, even if just an episode.

Oh and yes they should DEFINITELY be another galaxy by now. I was hoping at the end of last season the Discovery may end up in a different one. TM even made an article theorizing it. But of course Species 10c just created an artificial wormhole to send them home and that was the end of that idea.

Every season of DISCOVERY has been better than the previous season. Season 4 was tremendous, gorgeous as always, emotional, thoughtful, and relevant in the best, Star Trekiest way.

Looking forward to S5!

“A major change in producing” = giving Paradise her walking papers. She was responsible for the very poor level of writing in Season 4, including several eps penned by herself. She isn’t going anywhere so I doubt the show will improve.

I feel similarly. I was just so bored with parts of season 3 and 4 that I am struggling to have any interest in season 5. First time I am uninterested in watching a Trek season since mid-season 2 of ENT (I eventually caught up when S3 started, and actually really enjoyed season 4).

Maybe when it is closer to air time, some of the other previews will get me more interested.

Very happy to see that Callum Keith Rennie has been cast in a main role for this season.

I’ve been thinking he would be a great fit for the franchise, but hadn’t imagined him as a Vulcan (even a more laid back 32nd century one).

Sounds like he’ll provide a good balance.

He’s fantastic in everything he’s in, so I’m excited about that too.

Season 5 trailer looks like the Burnham show again…

I know, and it’s disheartening. Why do the writers focus on her to the exclusion of everyone else? SMG is an actor of limited range, and Burnham has become a caricature at this point. I watch and enjoy every Star Trek show, and that isn’t going to stop. But Discovery is sometimes the hardest to sit through.

4 seasons in as an above casual viewer and I still couldn’t name for you the full bridge crew. And there in lies the problem with this show vs older versions of Trek.

The bridge crew are not all main characters. Some of them are basically little more than extras. Why is that so hard for people to understand. Did people complain we didn’t know who the reccuring no name ensigns at helm were in tng?

That was one station, helm. and even then only after Wesley left the ship. That’s a FAR cry from the DIS bridge.

Of course, they are not going to change that

Yep. TOS was the Kirk show, TNG the Picard show, etc….If it bugs you that much, don’t watch it.

In fact, TNG wasn’t the Picard show but rather an ensemble.

In fact, all the 90s shows were.

Discovery was sucked into the constraints of ‘The Hero’s Journey’ and is all the worse for it. Discovery’s core ensemble is small, and isn’t given the same scope – no matter how excellent the actors.

TOS at least was a triumvirate, behind the scenes wrangling over lines by Shatner and Nimoy (documented) notwithstanding.

TNG didn’t focus on Picard to the exclusion of others. it frequently focused on Data, Worf, and Riker. It was very much an ensemble show. Discovery is the all-Burnham show.

@TG47 and Lorna Dune….
So, if I randomly selected any dozen Trek shows and digitally erased Kirk, Picard, Archer, Sisko or Janeway (or inserted some nameless redshirt placeholder), I’d see a coherent show that wasn’t tied to any one character? That just isn’t so. If your leads on any of these shows vanished, you don’t have a show.

I notice you don’t throw DS9 into this POV. Which is correct, because that show really did have episodes that concentrated on all the characters, not just the captain. I don’t really think any of the other shows are consistent in that respect.

TOS was the Kirk/Spock/Bones show. but they didn’t hide it. Just watch the opening credits and you could plainly see the cast was Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelly wasn’t even added in there till later on.

From TNG on is when Trek became an ensemble cast. TNG was def not the Picard show. In fact not many TNG eps even focused on Picard himself. Sure the famous ones like BoBW and Inner Light and such did but honestly how many of those in a 20+ season were there?

Compare that to DIS where every single ep or at least 8 out of 10 are focusing on Burnham. It’s not even close to the same thing.

TOS is the Kirk-Spock-sometimes McCoy-show.

Exactly. The dynamic of TOS is simple as I see it. Kirk is the main character and Spock and Bones are the 2 sides of his personality. Spock being his logical side representing his duty. Bones is his emotional side and represents his heart.

With Discovery, it’s all emotion all the time. ;)

Even when Spock was there LOL

While I like SMG, the show as a whole has a very weak ensemble since most of the bridge crew was cast as background extras. Combine that with Mary Wiseman departing and the revolving guest cast each season, this show just struggles to tell a story beyond two or three main characters. I constantly get a sense that this show is constantly trying to fix itself and it’s like watching a train-wreck most of the time. I really want this show to conclude so they can hit the reset button and try again with a new show. I’m honestly shocked we got a Season 5. Contrast that with SNW which I feel is perfectly built from the ground up, I know they can do better today.

Mary Wiseman is a regular in season five.

Looking forward to seeing S5 it sounds like it will be the best season yet and the previous 4 seasons have been amazing. While i love Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy and Strange New Worlds it’s Discovery that is to me the best of the current shows it has everything that makes a Trek show great. Which is well written characters and stories and actors that are so very talented that i look forward to every single episode which such excitement.

With that said i do feel the same way with Picard S3 as i can’t wait to see the TNG crew together again.

The one thing I am hoping for and I think we’re going to really get next season is that we will get to see more of the 32nd century. Despite my (many) issues with the show, for whatever reason I love this period. Maybe because it’s just new but there is so much we don’t know about it and every time I learn something more I’m always excited to hear more. And season 5 looks like it’s going to show us around this era in a way the last two didn’t and hopefully more rebuilding of the Federation.

Also why I’m excited for Picard being in the 25th century. We know this era well but it’s also been 20 years since Nemesis and there is a lot of the Alpha Quadrant we don’t know what’s happening. We learned about what has happened since Romulus went ka-boom but very little outside of that, especially since season 2 was about 2024. I think season 3 is going to really dive in to that history more and excited the Dominion war will have some influence in it.

My wish list for season 5 is simple:

1) Tone down the Burnham melodrama. Like, a lot.
2) Give Adira more to do and keep Gray off the show.
3) Give Detmer and Owosekun **something** to do.
4) Don’t sideline Saru, Reno, Culber and Stammets.
5) More Kovich. Also, more Vance. Also, more Linus.
6) No more tedious “universe in peril” plots. They’re done to death.
7) Jettison Rhys, Bryce, and Nilsson. There’s just nothing there.

If the show can get away from the Burnham melodrama and back to the good storytelling of the first two seasons, and if it can stop ignoring half the cast, I’ll be easy to please. The treasure quest sounds sort of interesting. It’s been done many times already in the novels and comics, so it’s kind of a cliche at this point, but I’m going into this with an open mind because I do very much want to enjoy this show again.

I hate to say it but given the description of this season I have a feeling we are not going to get a whole lot of Kovich or Vance. I mean if in fact the ship is going to the far reaches of the galaxy to uncover some secret I doubt they will be hopping back to Earth or wherever Starfleet HQ is very often.

To kind of add on to your “More Kovich” point, 8) Get David Cronenberg to direct an episode.

It’s about time they get Callum Keith Rennie into the Trek world. He’s been one of my fave actors for years (check out a little known indie film Hard Core Logo with him costarring), and I could only picture him as the captain of a starship.

I finally gave up during S4. Just had zero interest in the stories and the characters. I never thought there would ever be a stage that I wouldn’t watch something Star Trek, but here we are.

I watched the new trailer and read this article and it’s done nothing to coax me back unfortunately. Plenty more Trek to enjoy though so that’s the main thing.

To me Burnham especially and the other crew are the worst in Trek. There’s just nothing there.

I give you credit, I gave up on DSC at the end of S2. First time I ever gave up on a Trek show, but no regrets here.

I gave up at the end of season 3. It was becoming physically painful to watch. Worse than stabbing my balls.

Nah! It’s actually pretty similar to ball stabbing!

Someone here suggested I give up on it after mistakenly thinking that my long-winded criticisms of the show come from the same place as a quippy trolls’ pithy ones. I love Star Trek and while complaining is easier to do than finding praise for something, it comes from a place of passion, experience with Hollywood production and drama, and I think I’ve been fairly reasonable. Another poster had the gall to call me everything that’s wrong with fandom after I called him out for gaslighting people and accusing critical fans of being bigots without showing just cause.

I love the discussions and camaraderie of fandom, but that kind of bullying behavior is intolerable and it makes it harder to parse legitimate criticisms just as much as do the actual bigots who review bombed Disco in seasons 3 and 4. But I want to stick with things because I still live in hope. Nothing would make me happier than if they tone down the melodrama, clumsy politicking and cloying sentiment and do better by the characters while telling an engrossing story.

DSC is my least fav Trek and the hardest to watch at times. The main character is insufferable which makes it harder to like her, which is harder because the universe revolves around her.

DSC is better than it was but it needs some more variety and needs more of an ensemble.

Also, don’t you dare make a Trek musical episode. Trek sometimes does too much self mockery under Kurtzman. Good story telling, not member berries and trying to compete with Marvel

Yeah, I have to agree. I’ve watched all 12 Star Trek shows to date, and I can find things to like about all of them. But Discovery and Picard are the two I have the most trouble enjoying.

Picard is a tough one to be sure but to be fair, minus some couple great gems in season 2, the first 2 seasons of TNG were pretty rough as well. Like TNG, I’m hoping season 3 is were we grow the beard. But we are far past that point with DIS not only in seasons but 2 separate time periods.

I’m down with a new adventure with the Disco crew. Out of all the new Treks, it’s the one that is innovative and original. It doesn’t rely too much on what came before.

Spoiler: the main character is Spock’s adoptive sister.

That is the one big positive about the show today, they can’t rely too much of what came before. Of course they don’t have a choice now. ;)

But it’s also why I thought it was a brilliant idea to set the show in the far future, not only can it just be its own thing, it can’t rely on nostalgia or legacy characters in a way like it obviously did in season 2 when it threw in Pike and Spock. The show, for better or for worse, has to rely on itself to tell its own stories now. That’s what Voyager had to do as well (although it cheated a lot of times on it lol). It’s a big reason why I am still rooting for the show although I given up on the idea I’m going to ever truly love it.

But it’s really the only show that isn’t stuffed with nostalgia and legacy characters like the others have been and why it actually stands out. I just wish it stood out in its story telling as well.

Just be better! That’s all I care about. I don’t care what the story is, is it dark or light, if they are saving the galaxy once again or something, I just want to FINALLY get to the end of a season and feel satisfied I watched it. That the story actually came together well. That things built on each other in a logical way. That the resolution actually feels earned. That they provided twists that come off clever and not lame or nonsensical. That I feel closer to the characters and not annoyed they are still there. That I am enthralled and not bored watching it because it’s clear they stretched a 5 episode plot into a 13 episode season.

And there have been a few times I thought I was really going to flat out enjoy the season only to feel completely disappointed or let down by the end. I’m really happy for the people who truly love and appreciate this show. I just feel frustrated after four seasons and all the crazy changes they made for it and STILL making I’m still not enjoying it as much as I like. Maybe this will be the season that changes. Really hope so.

Please, just be better!

We’re of one mind on Discovery Tiger2.

The rest of the fam here keep tapping out in Discovery mid season out of boredom.

When there’s nothing else they want to watch they tend to pick it up again.

So it gets at least a rewatch or two from me, but I’d like to see it hold our household’s interest as well as SNW, LDS or Prodigy (which is beloved here despite our kids being long out of the target age group).

Yeah this shouldn’t be happening. Star Trek has done serialize shows before and in a much more satisfying way and with more episodes to boot. I know you’re not a big Enterprise fan but I thought that show and DS9 did such a great job with their serialized stories. The thing is the shows got STRONGER as the seasons went because you can tell the writers were getting in their groove. It doesn’t mean everyone has to agree obviously but for me, there is a reason why I fell in love with Enterprise in its third season and DS9 in its fourth, because I WASN’T bored. It was the opposite, I was enthralled with where the story was going, obviously much more with DS9 as it was one long story line that only got better.

But I’m not feeling enthralled with Discovery. Every season starts out pretty strong actually but yeah the show seems to lose gas by the final third of the season. For me, I think season 2 is still the strongest because it was the only season that held my attention the most at least, even if it still fell apart in its narrative and ridiculous plot twists. But as much as they try, the show is just limping along season after season and I hate to say that about a Star Trek show. Every show has bad seasons and most start off bad, but we’re in season 5 now and I’m still not feeling it this late in the game.

And people can’t say they are just saying these things because they hate ‘NuTrek’ or Kurtzman. Because as you mentioned LDS, PRO and SNW all seem to be big hits with at least most fans. And frankly because they all seem to learn from the mistakes of Discovery early on and what not to do while Discovery keeps repeating them season after season. It’s odd.

 Because as you mentioned LDS, PRO and SNW all seem to be big hits with at least most fans. And frankly because they all seem to learn from the mistakes of Discovery early on and what not to do while Discovery keeps repeating them season after season. It’s odd.

I would blame a lot of it on Michelle Paradise. From what I read of her comments she does seem to be the major decider on narrative.

Yeah so would I. I have said this before as well. She seems like a great person and does love Star Trek and the show, but it has become a slog to sit through with a lot of nonsensical plot twists since she took over. But the latter has always been an issue with Discovery as far back as season one.

I’m thinking Kingdom of the Crystal Skull meets National Treasure: Book of Secrets while standing atop a starship at warp to outrace the devious L’ak & Moll to the enigmatic booty. Should be a total blast and a wild ride. And the gruff guy will be like “I’m getting too old for this crap.”

They could do a lot worse with this show than focus on having fun via the talents of the cast.

A Star Trek Musical? Really? Honestly the only show that could pull that off is Lower decks IMO

Actually I have a theory that it will be SNW that will do a musical episode next season. I really think it’s coming. They keep saying that show is going to do something no other show has done before and because Kurtzman said he wants to do one, I think he’s basically telling us it’s already happening, just not willing to say it yet. Sort of like how he kept hinting about doing a crossover and they finally announced one with SNW and LDS.

Could be wrong (obviously), but I think we will see it on SNW. It’s already a pretty light and fun show to tempt something like that. And we did see Spock and Una sing in the turbolift on Short Treks. ;)

I can honestly see them doing it on SNW too. But honestly I don’t like the idea. Here’s why. I know Trek is not real like and there is such a thing as suspension of disbelief and all… But a crew going around and singing all the time is almost like breaking the 4th wall. For She-Hulk and deadpool, something that is SO based in literal comics its cool with me. But I just take Trek so much more serious than that. That’s just me of course.

I don’t know why but I really think SNW is doing a musical next season. I have a strong feeling I can’t explain lol.

But yeah, I’m not a musical guy either. If a show, any show, is doing one, I can’t blame people for being cautious about it. And more so with a Trek show. But it keeps coming up with Kurtzman. He was talking about it a year ago now so I have a feeling it is coming. It could be on Discovery or Lower Decks even, but they are being really cryptic about an episode in season 2 of SNW the cast says is far out there for even Star Trek and they have made clear it’s not the crossover with LDS. What is left to be far out there at this point?

But I’m sure if one of these shows do a musical, they will probably do it in a way that will make sense for Star Trek. Maybe Q, the Organians or a alien unicorn shows up and forces them to do one for some reason that gives energy to a planet or saves a dying child. And that’s the thing about SNW, we already got a whimsical episode in the first season transforming the ship into a children’s book. SNW is not afraid to ‘go there’ and can fall into fantasy like the old shows did.

If SNW ends up doing one, I hope they do it in a logical way, like a dream sequence or something. Not just a straight up ep where people are literally just singing. Lower Decks I can totally get on board with. I know it’s canon and i’m cool with and I enjoy it, but by it’s very nature i’ve never taken it seriously (which is why I think i’m one of the few that thinks the SNW crossover ep is a bad idea).

Yeah hopefully it will be done in a way that’s not cringe worthy if one will actually happen; and Star Trek has had plenty of those episodes. And although I am looking forward to the SNW/LDS crossover, I have also said it could turn out bad as well; especially if they go too far with it. But I like and trust both shows enough that it won’t be…but I been wrong before. ;D

Woah woah woah man!

Are you having doubts over the crossover? I didn’t know this. 😥

Have you mentioned it at the other spot? Don’t worry, the crossover is going to be amazing! Pike will be there! Mariner will be there! Spock will be there! Uhura will be there! Boimler will be there! The woman with the weird buzz haircut who pilots the ship will be there (name is not coming to me for some reason). See it’s going to be great bro! 🙂

Unless Deadweight Kirk shows up and puts everyone to sleep then it will probably be a bust. Never thought I would ever say this, but I actually miss Chris Pine. 🙄

It sounds like you are thinking of Detmer. Don’t feel bad, a lot of people still don’t remember her name.

He’s thinking of Ortegas :)

Just messing around! ;D

Yes Ortegas! It actually came to me five minutes after I posted. It’s also the name of one of my favorite Mexican restaurants near me. How could I forget that?? I love that restaurant!! 🙂

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Nice one bro! 👍

Hey! I love both LDS and SNW as you know. But they are 2 very different beasts. I’ll give you an example. I love Law and Order as you know. And I like Brooklyn 99 too. Ever since B99 moved from FOX to NBC I wondered if B99 and SVU would do a cross over. But I’m not sure if I could imagine an episode of SVU where the B99 people are all serious and stuff.

I’m just having some fun! You know me! 😂

I think it will be good though. I have faith in the crossover! But if you really don’t like it in the end I will send you a bottle of Chateau Picard wine to cheer you up! 😀

Okay I just checked the price for the wine and holy Q, that’s a steep price! It might be free in the 25th century but today the Picard’s are charging some major euros for their product!

So instead I will send you some box wine off of Amazon! 😁

Burnham: Woah… Never A Dull Moment.

Producer’s giving the middle finger to haters of Discovery.

Wait, is that the guy that said Adama is a Cylon?

‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Showrunner Promises Shift In Tone For Season 5 With Action, Adventure, And Fun

The show runners say this before every season of Discovery, and it never really seems true.

If that tone switch is from obnoxious to good Trek, then count me back in!

We’re now on Season Five, and I still don’t care about any of these characters – because they’re not really characters.

That’s the thing that’s been getting to me. Technically they are characters, and there’s a semblance to how Burnham operates and the rest of the tiny tiny cast, but Saru is the only one whose arc has really made the most sense. He’s the best fleshed-out, and that’s partly down to being the best acted out of them all.

Everyone else is kinda just a random collection of vague qualities. That was a problem on Voyager and Enterprise too.

Culber on paper has his struggle with mortality which he channels into being a counselor. It’s never been compelling to me even though the producers and Cruz take it so seriously. Maybe that’s because I’m bent out of shape about him only being alive because there was a backlash to his “bury your gays” death.

Stamets is totally unbelievable in his motivations anymore. I believed he his relationship initially and his drive for knowledge and his cantankerousness, but his evolution into adoptive parent has rung so falsely. It’s all voiced over to people and never truly sold by the writing or Rapp’s acting. So that feels incredibly forced. But maybe I’m biased because I’ve always found Rapp to be a better stage than screen actor.

Book was very engaging in season 3. His mission with Tarka started from a logical place and then just stretched beyond its dramatic possibilities before reaching an inevitable conclusion. I didn’t buy that Tarka would convince him and I don’t think his trauma was explored well enough after the season’s midpoint. So I stopped believing in the character.

Adira has gone from assured presumptuous upstart to babbling mess. I’ve never seen a character grow *less* confident as time progresses, so I’ll give them points for doing something different, even if I can’t stand it. I didn’t mind their outing with the cadets, but using them for things like out of the blue worshipping of Detmer is contrived and clumsy. But I could be biased because I don’t like Tilly and don’t see a vacuum where a Tilly 2.0 was needed.

I think the only neurotic fast-talking awkward characters I’ve ever liked were Ally McBeal (sometimes), Elliott Reid (Sarah Chalke on Scrubs) and Leslie Knope. And all of them had their moments of decisiveness. Not to say Tilly hasn’t as well, but I resented how Discovery’s only humor until the arrivals of Reno and Mirror Georgiou’s snark was Tilly’s nervous energy and tics. That’s partly why I hated Jurati until she got some tragedy infused into her. But I also just don’t see much character with Tilly. She’s grown enough to teach cadets, we’re told. Okay.

And then I’ve gone on at length about how none of the bridge extras are really characters. Owo comes the closest but it’s very hamfisted how these characters’ snippets of backstories and utility are shoehorned in. They are ignored for weeks and then suddenly we are supposed to applaud their inclusion in a vital scene figuring out how to talk to the aliens in the finale? Please. I feel for the actors and anyone who feels connected to them, but they are there to make the producers feel good about fleshing out the Starship Earth look of the bridge, they haven’t been given the courtesy of real characters to inhabit.

And that’s really it. Ash is gone. Gray has just been a metaphor with no personality besides blandly supportive and yearning. Georgiou’s out after a hasty redemption they didn’t bother to seed properly until it was time for her to go and then they nearly pulled it off on the back of Michelle Yeoh acting her heart out. Reno, the admiral and president are well-acted and have a semblance of character, but they flit in and out.

The cast is full of lovely and talented people who have fun, but I dont like the creative choices being made and just dont care about most of their characters as a result. It’s a sorry state to be in after 5 seasons and a difficult place to come back from. But again, I have a few grains of salt in there most of that can be taken with. I just don’t have much hope I’ll be won over by them at this point – how many shows have fans who disliked the cast until season 5? I’m probably going to lean on the new characters.

Oof, another rant. And I still am not up late enough for a new Lower Decks be on!

It’s another season of Discovery y’all!

It’s time to get out the hankies and watch another poorly written season of melodrama and ridiculous plot twists that feel like a first year writing major came up with as Burnham cries her way through the mission and solves the next convoluted mystery box that somehow saves the galaxy yet again if we don’t fall asleep by the boredom first!

Can you tell I’m excited? 🤮

We’ve heard such drivel before. Gave up during the middle of season 4. Not going back.

From the trailer, I don’t get the sense that their writing staff has improved in any way.

Naturally, the new captain “gruff,” so he’ll have to “learn” from the sensitive and emoting crew. Sigh.

I really wish they’d go to an episodic format. Another “mystery plot” is just the same thing again. I don’t even remember what the last two seasons were about, other than a screaming child wrecked the galaxy for 100 years as one of the weakest “pay offs” ever.

If they want to keep their loyal followers and perhaps get new followers, the producers should make the new seasons no more than 3 months apart. The current frequency of a year (or more?) between seasons makes people lose interest in the series. ‘nuff said.

That’s not realistic. I know we’re used to how network TV operates and the older shows churned out 22-26 episodes a season, but no shows with as heavy a technical lift as the live action Trek series are producing their work any faster. There are series on Netflix and the BBC that go well over a year between seasons and with shorter episode orders. Discovery by necessity takes longer to film and longer to finish in post production than an NCIS or the 90’s Trek series with a burnt out cast and crew regularly doing 16+ hour days.

Even if they aren’t all to our taste, we are incredibly lucky to have a steady stream of Star Trek shows all year with minimal interruption between them – not even Star Wars and Marvel can crow about that yet.

“Sonequa riding on top of a starship while it was at warp”…

I’m thinking Paradise doesn’t give a damn about the fan’s multiple complaints about Burnham the super hero, and she’ll do what she wants to do.

And I’ll do what I want to do. I’ll watch the first few episodes, to get a valid opinion (now I’m just projecting frustration, which may not be justified), and then I’ll decide. If this is another melodrama let’s all hug and cry and do things together and help! Burnham come save us, and the useless bridge crew crying and complaining at their posts BS, then I’ll do what I did in S2 and stop watching.

If this showrunner continues to try shoveling manure down my throat, it’s her show but I don’t need the aggravation.

L’ak looks like an albino Narn.

Its too late. This should should have been canceled at the end of S3. Its so bad, I’m sorry!

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

And Discovery should be apologizing to us for being so bad. 🙄😕

The show already has those qualities in spades. What it has not had is good writing. A Star Trek show usually gets good by the end of the 3rd or start of its 4th season. It hasn’t happened. Before Picard season 2 Disco season 3 was the single worst season of Star Trek ever. I’m gonna binge watch season 4 when the blu hits. And i’m prepared to be disappointed. I like the cast, camaraderie and friendship so i keep watching.