‘Star Trek: Discovery’ To Conclude With Season 5

Paramount+ has officially confirmed that the upcoming fifth season of Star Trek: Discovery will be the last. The premiere of the final season has been moved to early 2024.

The show that started it all coming to an end

Star Trek: Discovery kicked off the new era of Star Trek, launching on CBS All Access in 2017. Six years later, there are now a total of five Star Trek series on what has become the Paramount+ streaming service, including the Discovery spinoff Strange New Worlds. Leading up to the final season, Paramount+ is planning to honor the legacy of Discovery with “year-long celebrations and appearances at key events in markets around the world,” according to the official announcement released today that confirmed the news about the series ending.

Co-created by Bryan Fuller and Alex Kurtzman, the show started off as a prequel series set in the Original Series era, then jumped forward into the 32nd century in its third season. Sonequa Martin-Green leads a diverse cast as Micahel Burnham, promoted to Captain Burnham of the USS Discovery in season four. Martin-Green (who is also a producer) said in a statement:

I can hardly believe that this mind-blowing journey with Star Trek: Discovery is ending. I’m astoundingly blessed by God to have played Captain Michael Burnham and to have taken part in a legacy alongside an extraordinary cast, phenomenal crew and remarkable writing team. To our most supportive partners at CBS Studios and Paramount+, who insisted on making television history, I’m deeply grateful. I’m also deeply grateful for the creative collaboration with our showrunners Michelle Paradise and Alex Kurtzman, as well as Olatunde Osunsanmi and the incomparable team of executive producers. I will never forget how it felt to stand together as a show family, cradling the heirloom of ‘Trek’ with all those from the franchise at large and with the fans. The fans welcomed us into their hearts as we launched a new iteration of ‘Trek’ and an entire entertainment platform, and we’ll never forget it. 65 episodes later, here’s to the entire company of Star Trek: Discovery, to the show and its fifth and final season, to its beloved fans and to all those who envision a better future. Let’s fly…

Paramount+ also included this image in their social media announcement of the news…

Showrunners pay tribute to cast and crew

Executive producers and co-showrunners Alex Kurtzman and Michelle Paradise also shared their thoughts on the show’s conclusion:

As lifelong fans of ‘Star Trek,’ it has been an immense honor and privilege to help bring  Star Trek: Discovery to the world. The ‘Trek’ universe means so much to so many – including us – and we couldn’t be prouder of everything Discovery has contributed to its legacy, particularly with representation. If just one person sees themselves, or the possibilities for their future, in a new way because of Discovery, then we think we’d have made Gene Roddenberry very proud.

Of course, there would be no Discovery without Sonequa Martin-Green and the extraordinary team of artists, both in front of and behind the camera, who have brought this show to life. Their passion and determination to make every episode special has been deeply inspiring; so too has their love and support for one another and their genuine love for ‘Star Trek.’ Discovery has truly become a family over the years – and we couldn’t be more grateful to be part of it.”

To the fans around the world, thank you for joining us on this incredible journey. Your love for these characters and your excitement for every episode, every season, has meant the world to us. We can’t wait for you to see what we’ve been working on for this final season; we appreciate your patience in the meantime and trust us when we say it’ll be worth the wait. We love you all! LLAP.

Star Trek: Dicovery panel from New York Comic-Con 2021 (L-R) Sonequa Martin-Green, Michelle Paradise, Blu Del Barrio, David Ajala, Wilson Cruz, Mary Wiseman and Anthony Rapp

Additional filming set as Paramount+ says goodbye to its first Trek

Production on season 5 wrapped up last November, however, Variety reports additional filming is taking place. According to The Hollywood Reporter, the additional filming will “help craft a conclusion for the series.”

This news confirms TrekMovie’s analysis from earlier this week that Paramount+ could wrap up their longest-running Star Trek series as part of a larger effort to control costs across the board. According to Variety “The ending of Discovery comes as Paramount looks to continue building on the success of the “Star Trek” franchise while also coming to grips with the financial realities of the streaming era, as most major media companies have announced plans to slash content spending in the years going forward.”

In the official statement announcing the end of the series, Paramount chief programming officer Tanya Giles said:

Star Trek: Discovery is a perennial favorite on the service, near and dear to the hearts of legions of ‘Star Trek’ fans as well as all of us here at Paramount+. The series and its incredible cast and creatives ushered in a new era for ‘Star Trek’ when it debuted over six years ago, embracing the future of streaming with serialized storytelling, bringing to life deep and complex characters that honor Gene Roddenberry’s legacy of representing diversity and inclusion, and pushing the envelope with award-winning world-building. This final season will see our beloved crew take on a new adventure and we can’t wait to celebrate the series’ impact on the franchise leading up to its final season early next year.

CBS Studios David Stapf added:

When we first started talking about the return of ‘Star Trek’ eight years ago, we never could have imagined the indelible impact Star Trek: Discovery would have,” “The series brought back a beloved global franchise, and just like its predecessors, Discovery honored ‘Star Trek’s’ legacy of ‘infinite diversity in infinite combinations,’ representing the best of what we could be as humans when we celebrate our differences. I’d like to thank Alex Kurtzman and Michelle Paradise, who have led this show with heart, passion, and as fans themselves with vivid storytelling – always ready to push boundaries like those before them. And finally, I’d like to thank this talented cast, led by the brilliant Sonequa Martin-Green, whose leadership both onscreen and off has helped guide the way from day one.

Discovery will be the second original Paramount+ series to wrap up, following the third and final season of Picard, which wraps up in April. There is still no word yet from Paramount regarding the future of the rest of the Paramount+ Star Trek originals. A second season of Strange New Worlds has already been produced and is expected to debut later this year. A third season for the series set on board Captain Pike’s USS Enterprise is likely but has not been officially confirmed. 2023 will also see the fourth season of Lower Decks and the first half of the second season of Prodigy, with no official word yet on if the two animated Star Trek shows will get additional seasons.

There is also no news regarding any potential new Trek shows getting the official green light. In recent years Alex Kurtzman and Paramount+ executives have also talked about a number of potential new Star Trek series in development including a Section 31 show starring Michelle Yeoh and a show set at Starfleet Academy. A spinoff of Picard has also been discussed by that show’s cast and showrunner.

Sonequa Martin-Green in first look from Discovery season 5

Final season to be an “epic adventure”

The fifth season of Discovery will be seeing some changes for the show. Firstly it will be 10 episodes, bringing it in line with the other Trek series. The show is also moving away from the usual galaxy-ending storylines, with the showrunner promising a shift in tone to more action and adventure.

Here is the new official synopsis:

The fifth and final season will find Captain Burnham and the crew of the U.S.S. Discovery uncovering a mystery that will send them on an epic adventure across the galaxy to find an ancient power whose very existence has been deliberately hidden for centuries. But there are others on the hunt as well … dangerous foes who are desperate to claim the prize for themselves and will stop at nothing to get it.

Season 5 cast members include Sonequa Martin-Green (Captain Michael Burnham), Doug Jones (Saru), Anthony Rapp (Paul Stamets), Mary Wiseman (Sylvia Tilly), Wilson Cruz (Dr. Hugh Culber), David Ajala (Cleveland “Book” Booker) and Blu del Barrio (Adira). Also returning are guest stars Tara Rosling (Ni’Var President T’Rina), Chelah Horsdal (Federation President Rillak), Oded Fehr (Admiral Vance), and David Cronenberg (Kovich).

Callum Keith Rennie joins the cast in a series regular role as Captain Rayner. Also new this season are Moll and L’ak, played by Eve Harlow and Elias Toufexis.

Callum Keith Rennie as Rayner

A trailer released in early October at New York Comic Con gave a hint at the new tone and this quest-based season.

Discovery seasons 1 through 4 are currently streaming exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S. Internationally, the series is available on Paramount+ in Australia, Italy, Latin America, the U.K. and South Korea. It will also stream exclusively on Paramount+ in Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland and Austria later this year. In Canada, it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.

Keep up with news for the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.

Inline Feedbacks
View all comments


So I guess you were right in 2017 when you got inside word it was getting canceled!

5 seasons are a success no matter how anyone tries to twist things.

Yeah, most streaming originals get 3-4 seasons, with only the biggest hits getting more than that. (please don’t list off ones that got more, I am well aware there are a bunch). Netflix is notorious for canceling wildly popular, critically acclaimed shows.

Let’s face it, if you told Trek fans in 2016 that the new series would get a five year run, I think everyone would have assumed it was a big hit.

I wonder if it’s just because Netflix hosts all their old content that they’ve gained the reputation of being a graveyard for good television or if they really did conclude somewhere along the line that promoting a new series draws more subscribers than renewing existing ones.

You kind of it nailed it with that last sentence. It got a five year run not because it was a hit but because All Access needed original content. Had it been exclusive to Netflix it may not have made it past season 2 due to low viewership. On All Access it had a lot of breathing room.

But it was a big hit for CBSAA. Maybe it wouldn’t have been a big hit for Netflix’s standards, but by the same token, Orange is the New Black probably wouldn’t have been a big hit for Fox or NBC. It’s all relative.

CBS and Netflix took much different approaches with original content, partly out of necessity. All Access was trying to lure subscribers with established IP. Netflix, on the other hand, wanted content that could compete with HBO and Showtime and earning the same kind of critical accolades to lure subscribers. “House of Cards” and “Orange is the New Black” were the result of this strategy, both of which would have been right at home on HBO or Showtime and the first hits for Netflix. It paid off.

Discovery got off to a rough start and it took a few years for everyone to fall into a rhythm for Star Trek but this never benefited Discovery, a series which will tap out after season 5 and likely take the rest of that era with it.

Denny C looks like we were right (and that’s rare for me lol). But you been saying you could see this being Discovery’s last season. I don’t know how long Discovery would’ve lasted on Netflix either, I kind of think it would’ve been cancelled by it’s third season seeing they didn’t put up much of a fight when Paramount asked to run it internationally.

I must thank you for being one of Star Trek’s most patient fans!

I think the bitterest of ironies for Discovery is that the most successful thing to come out of it was the introduction of Pike which eventually led to SNW. The success of SNW was to the detriment of Discovery and I suspect that the same could be said of the success of Picard Season 3. Discovery couldn’t compete. Keep Discovery going or present a Picard spinoff continuing into the 24th Century? It was telling when Picard was referred to as Star Trek’s present.

Well when it came to Discovery, even I read out of patience at times lol.

And I fully agree. Discovery has been a mixed bag for a lot of fans out there, but it did some good for sure, the biggest introducing Pike. SNW is a huge hit, at least in the fandom. Again I don’t pretend how any of it is translating in terms of views or is it enough views that keeps CBS happy.

But I have to imagine the show is a big hit, at least within the Trek shows and gained a big following as Picard seem to be doing, especially right now. I am seeing this a lot on other boards, people what you are saying and that SNW and PIC success was Discovery’s doom. IDK if any of that is true. But if it is, am I surprised, not at all. DIS has always struggled in terms of fan perceptions and while I’m sure it was a bigger hit at some point, you now have other shows that are bigger, newer and maybe cheaper too, so yeah.

And I hope Picard is huge because I really do want a spin off of that show. Give people what they want, right? So crossing my fingers.

And it just hit me, but SNW is now the flagship show since it’s currently that and the two animated shows still running…at least for now.

I feel that Star Trek Will move to expand the TNG era of Trek as there so much to utilise there

How about a dose of perspective? Yes, five seasons for a show like this “is” a success. However, that only really matters in the “now”. After the final episode has long since aired, do you really believe Discovery will be as revered as the shows that came before it? That for me is the success that’s far more important than the success in the now.

As SFDebris once said, “A good story is loved in it’s time. A great story is loved forever.”

Or you can go with Roberto “Enough Crack Smoking” Orci who said “(having written the) two biggest Star Treks in a row with best reviews is hardly a description of “broken.”. As I love to say, this is why I get to write movies and you don’t.”

And he’s right. He wrote movies that were a success in their time, but everyone moved on to the next thing. And to add a dose of poetic justice, the two movies he wrote are pretty much carbon copies of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. A Star Trek that is loved to this day.

The same exact question was once asked of Enterprise when it was the 2nd ever show of Star Trek to be cancelled.

Huh? Enterprise was the sixth Star Trek show to be canceled because it was the sixth Star Trek show. Every Star Trek show no longer on the air has been canceled.

TNG and DS9 and VOY were not cancelled. They ended. For example, you do “cancel” a TV show and simultaneously make a movie literal next day with the same cast. There is a huge difference. DS9 and VOY ended with 7 seasons because TNG set the standard for how long a Trek show should run. ENT ended because UPN was merged with WB to create CW. It was given a final 4th season to wrap things up because “Star Trek”

ENT wasn’t cancelled because of the CW merger, that began several months after the finale. It was cancelled because Les Moonves is a butt.

(Admittedly if it had survived, the CW merger might have killed it after its fifth season anyway.)

Well that’s true too. But the bigger point was it was a loss leader in the ratings and the WB part of CW was never going to accept it.

Tomato, tomahto. When a show ends, it is considered canceled, whether or not it has a proper conclusion. That’s how it works in this business. Every single TV show not currently on the air is canceled. I work on Hollywood sets. Trust me on this–there is no distinction on the studio end. TNG, DS9 and VOY could easily have gone an eighth year if the studio had wanted them to. They didn’t, so the shows were canceled.

If you look at TV websites that track renewal/canceled status every year, they have a distinction between canceled and ended. NCIS New Orleans was canceled. Game Of Thrones ended.

TNG, DS9 and Voyager came to a conclusion. Enterprise was cancelled. They were informed that a decision had been made not to move forward with a 5th season and that was a wrap.

Yep, Discovery is now the third Trek show to be outright cancelled and sadly it may not be the last one either.

…which doesn’t negate what I said.

The only real ‘thing’ that this new Star Trek has done to acknowledge Enterprise was how it handled the Mirror Universe, which were more of an off-shoot since those episodes didn’t affect anything to the show in the normal universe.

And I have to ask, what does Enterprise have that’s worth carrying over? Jonathan Archer is not what I would call a character who has endeared himself to the fandom.

There is more than that. The pilot episode of DIS referenced Archer. Season 3 (or 4?) had Starbase Archer in the 32nd century complete with the Enterprise theme (not the song). Young Picard had a toy NX-01. Moving beyond Secret Hideout, Peter Weller in STID had a model of the NX-01 in his office. In ST 2009 Scotty said he accidentally killed Porthos. ENT has been reference more than a few times for the failed Berman era show.

But where are they? Last time I checked, all the main actors from Enterprise are still around, but I haven’t seen them in anything new. We’ve got a whole TNG reunion happening on Picard, had a small DS9 reunion on Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds is just amping up the TOS connections and Voyager practically got a sequel in the form of Star Trek Prodigy. I should also point out that Prodigy featured a ‘beyond the grave’ reunion from all the pre-Kurtzman shows except Enterprise.

Star Trek may acknowledge Enterprise’s existence through ship models and station names, but no one really seems all that interested in following up with any of its characters or storylines in any substantial way. Even the USS Defiant plot element didn’t amount to anything.

In this user’s opinion, I’d be happy to not acknowledge Enterprise at all.

Enterprise is stuck 100 years before TOS and the only reason we still get shows in the 23rd century is because TOS started it all and people still love it. By no means am I saying Enterprise was a fantastic show or even in my top 5, but it most certainly has been acknowledged.

I won’t argue about it’s acknowledgment, I’m just saying that like many bad Star Trek stories, the people running the show tend to ignore them moving forward. Star Trek Beyond practically erased Into Darkness from relevancy to the point that you could go from Trek09 to Beyond without missing a single beat. Although it is funny that there were some decent references and visual cues to Enterprise in Beyond.

Yes it really wasn’t the specific stories of Enterprise that were ever referenced but rather what Enterprise was. The first Starfleet ship that everyone else was written to honor.

Funny how your use of “honor” only extends to using the name Enterprise. Before the Enterprise show, there were no models of the NX-01, no pictures, no displays, and there was even a conversation where it plainly established the TOS Enterprise being the first Starship to bear the name.

Naming the show and the NX-01 ‘Enterprise’ was one of the showrunners’ biggest mistakes. It felt too much like the writers indulging themselves in re-writing Trek history to say that ‘their’ Enterprise was the original and not the TOS as it had been established in previous shows. Retcons are seldom fun, especially ones that are as hollow as this.

It’s akin to how the writers of Discovery handled Michael Burnham and making her Spock’s sister. Spock never talked about having a sister, Spock didn’t need a sister and Spock certainly didn’t need a sister who influenced him so much that she was the reason he became the Spock we know in TOS.

Enterprise is just too far in the past, that’s the main issue. How many times is the 22nd is even referenced on any of the shows before Enterprise started? You have the most obvious, the Romulan War, the year the Federation was created and when Earth stopped using money and that’s all I can remember personally.

It’s hard to hard to talk about stuff from 1-200 years ago without it feeling forced. How do you bring up Hoshi or Reed in an episode? How often has Sulu or Uhura ever been brought up in TNG or VOY and those shows weren’t even a century apart. They found ways but out of 500 episodes of the 24th you can count all of them on one hand. Kirk was only mentioned twice on TNG out of 175 episodes. Once on Voyager and I think three times on DS9 not counting the tribble episode.

Even when they found ways to get them on the shows it was usually through crazy means like that episode because with the exception of Spock the others should just be dead by then. Same problem if you want the ENT characters to show up on SNW or something.

Maybe T’Pol is still around but everyone else should just be gone. Maybe Phlox can still be around I guess.

But time difference makes it hard. Unless another show takes place in the 32nd century I don’t we’ll ever see the Discovery characters again.

Well there is always Riker and the holideck. 😜😕

What I think he’s saying is we haven’t seen a direct Enterprise appearance like we are seeing with TNG and VOY in PIC and PRO, ie, a direct show in that era that could revisit those characters again.

And yeah, that’s true, we haven’t yet, but this is why the internet is soooo frustrating lol. There was a time, not that long ago, people were saying the same thing about all these shows now. When the Kelvin movies were running, people were convinced we’ll never see the TNG/DS9/VOY era ever again. In fact, the Prime universe is probably dead and forgotten completely. I know we’ve had this discussion and there is a reason why we keep having it…for discussions like this lol.

Even when Discovery was announced, people literally thought it meant the 24th century era was never coming back. Cut to five years later and wow, look at that, they’re all back. But people on the internet told us those characters were no longer important to fans anymore and that they only care about TOS stories, period.

That was clearly not the case. And just because there isn’t a direct Enterprise show on now, doesn’t mean there won’t be. Things seem a bit fluid in the Star Trek universe at the moment but my guess is long they make shows in whatever form, every character will have a chance to come back. Yes Enterprise is probably not a priority for two reasons A. it’s not as popular as those other shows and B. as you just laid out, it’s not a show you can crossover with a ton of legacy characters as all the new shows can.

The 22nd century is just more limited, you can’t stuff a half a dozen TNG and VOY characters on three different shows like PIC, PRO and LDS. Some even think that’s why DIS got the ax, it can’t mix with TOS and TNG characters so it’s gone. I don’t think that’s why they cancelled it of course but it could make an argument why we may not see any shows outside of the 23rd through the 25th century in the future because they want as many crossovers as possible. I hope not, but maybe not in the near future I’m guessing.

I think we will get something Enterprise related, it’s not an if but a when. But yeah, that ‘when’ can be awhile. It took literally 20 years to get the entire TNG cast together, but they’re here. But a decade ago people were making the same argument we’ll never see them again either because it was all about the Kelvin universe, Apple bridges and white Khans back then. And they could’ve been right but Star Trek has proven nothing truly dies, so yeah. Several show runners has said they want to bring them back, but being shows situated in the 24th century makes it hard as you said. They’ll probably figure something out in time.

But every character will probably show up at this point. I suspect they’ll find a way to bring back the Discovery characters in a few years after that show is gone too.

The actress who played Hoshi Sato is in a lot of TV and theater. You could build a show around her.

I would love a show with Linda Park. I was kind of hoping in Discovery it would be mentioned Mirror Georgeou was Hoshi’s descendant and that’s how she is Empress.

No killed,used him in a transporter experiment. Not materialised yet,lol.

“Enterprise” is the most disappointing Trek to me because the crew could have been true heroic early deep-space pioneers! …but instead they just became part of a couple of massive long-war story arcs (like DS9 did better with some emotion and thought). Enterprise became dull and just another “hummin’ along in space” show. Most of the actors were stiff as lumber and … that damn song….

I can see that. Personally I wanted Enterprise to be more of a Starfleet version of NASA type show that showed the peril’s of Humanity realy developing WARP past First Contact and stuff.

Bingo. Enterprise should have been Yellowstone in space; a rag tag post ww3 humanity trying to find its place in a dangerous universe. Barbarians to the Elves, et, Vulcans ending up bringing peace like Lord of the Rings. Instead we got TNG bland complete with transporters and phasers on stun the first episode.

Why are you determined to prove how bad Discovery is? Some people like it, you don’t. Move on.

How can one prove something that is subjective? Why should anyone’s opinion of a show deter anyone else from liking it? Unless I have said something that violates this website’s rules of conduct, is it really appropriate to tell users not to comment in a ‘comment section’ if their opinions aren’t the same as yours?

I will never tell you or anyone else not to enjoy Star Trek: Discovery or any other show for that matter. People liking this show is not my issue. It’s the show itself. That’s it.

“moved on to the next thing” is an evasion… I’ve spoken to 10-20 Millennials who love ST09 and STID and are Trek fans solely because of those movies, and ZERO Millennials who are fans because of Bennett-Berman.

 Millennials who are fans because of Bennett-Berman.”

You rang?

Older millennials in particular would have grown up on Berman-era Trek. Anecdotally, every millennial Star Trek fan I know is a fan because of either TNG or DS9.

Christopher you sound very defensive and touchy. Investors want streaming services to be profitable, and Star Trek Discovery was not the Star Trek that most fans were expecting or wanted in 2016.

From the beginning we knew Picard would be three seasons. For Discovery it was not known if it would be three seasons, four, five, seven, or ten. Discovery appeals only to a small but vocal segment of fans. It was not lucrative for CBS All Access, it is not profitable for Paramount+ and Science Fiction productions are extremely expensive to make with sets, prosthetics, unique costumes, and SFX.

If Discovery were successful it would not be getting cancelled now, even after the show was rebooted by casting it off into the 32nd century away from the more recognizable cannon that the showrunners of Discovery completely disregarded. Paramount+ is merging with Showtime and they are looking hard at where the money is bleeding and what is profitable and isn’t and Discovery is likely the least watched and least liked (I would say the most disliked) Star Trek series of all the newer series from 2016 onward.

I would love to know how the streaming numbers for views for Discovery compare to the ratings for Star Trek Enterprise during it’s four year run on the United Paramount Network. I was very displeased when Paramount/UPN cancelled Enterprise and I wrote letters hoping for a fifth season. I have no interest in there being fifth or even sixth season of Discovery. I’m surprised that Discovery has been allowed to run for this long.

Your angry bias against Discovery is causing you to spiral, friend. “Discovery appeals only to a small but vocal segment of fans…not lucrative…not profitable…extremely expensive…least watched…least liked…most disliked” right before you admit you’d like to know behind-the-scenes details and numbers because you’re angry and just guessing. 😂 The giveaway was wanting to compare Discovery’s numbers to Enterprise’s numbers.

Enterprise aired on pre-streaming network television twenty years ago. Shows that were canceled for low ratings five years ago would top the charts today. There is no basis to compare any two shows from two different platforms decades apart.

Success is not judged by apples to orange comparisons. Some shows, like Discovery, had lucrative funding deals in place on platforms building subscriptions year-round and were in the right place at the right time for long runs. Others find themselves on platforms cutting costs and less willing or able to give a show a chance. That’s life. Shows continue to get more expensive as they age. A sixth year is less lucrative than a first year launch or, if plans change, cost cutting.

But man, the anger you let slip. 😂

Viewership on streamers in 2023 are not comparable to network TV figures in 2001. But I suspect you know that. I don’t know why you and others are so desperate to prove that it was a failure.

It did it’s job: it was a big draw for CBSAA, and did well enough to sustain 5 seasons, and helped rejuvenate the Star Trek brand That’s a win, even if it didn’t draw as many people as you think it should have had it been a better show.

It’s success was enough to spawn four new shows, including a spin-off that was one of the most in-demand shows of 2022. Why you need to s**t all over it is beyond me, other than you just have nothing better to do with your time.

What AlphaPredator said.

Streamers unfortunately are not in the habit of making public their viewing numbers. Certainly not like the Nielson ratings of years past. At best they will release vague press releases about how shows are allegedly doing. But no hard data. I’ve seen lists of the most streamed shows and I’ve often wondered where these numbers come from. But it is what it is. We may never know what the actual viewership numbers are for any of these shows.

Santos, is that you?

None of this is true.

ALL of it was true. He hit the nail right on the head. Discovery after Season 2 was a stinker.

Yeah season 2 was actually my favorite. I was super excited for season 3 when they rebooted it to the far future but its ending was just horrible. Season 4 was just painful to get through in its second half.

I don’t know. There are still more episodes of TOS out there. It might be a little like comparing today’s major league pitchers who rarely approach 200 innings and might have 2 CG’s to pitchers of 30 years ago when they routinely surpassed 250 innings and threw 10+ CG’s. Essentially the bar for success is a lot lower now than it used to be.

Not if the viewer numbers kept becoming more and more dismal.

Five seasons of a series these days is the equivalent of roughly a season and a half of a traditional television series. Imagine if TNG, DS9 or VOY had been cancelled after just 50 episodes. Would anyone have considered that a success? The shows would have never hit their stride. But we all know things change and today things are done differently, but producing 50 episodes is not an impressive feat in my opinion. Even for SNW, which I enjoy immensely, it saddens me that the best case scenario is probably around 50 episodes.

It will be 65 episodes, not 50. The first four seasons all got 13+ episodes, so that pushed it out a little more compared to the others.

And yeah, that could be the reality with all the shows. Picard is only going to have 30 episodes. That was decided ahead of time, but still tiny for even today.

5 seasons are a success no matter how anyone tries to twist things.”

Ever hear the phrase: “Hunger makes the best seasoning”?

A lot of folks were hungry for new Trek. Starving for it.

As we get better “new Trek”, we realize that the initial taste of the first “new” trek in a while wasn’t quite that good.

Never thought I’d say this, but 100%.

Just like you predicted….6 years ago….lol

The (BAD) writing was on the wall.

(Literally, from the beginning! 😜)

Michelle Paradise & Co. ran the series into the ground with their soap opera writing.

Exactly! I blame her specifically for the show being so bad now.

Honestly I consider it a group effort. Hard for one single person to be responsible for such a tire fire.

All that this reply does is reflect you in bad light. Nice one

Strike :)

Sad it’s the final season but I’m glad that we got 5 seasons. Some said before the show began airing that it would be a failure yet it was a major success for Paramount and ignited a new golden era of Trek. Thank you to all the cast/writers for such an epic addition to the Star Trek franchise.

It’s true that Discovery did lead the way in launching more Star Trek shows. Despite the fact that I never became a huge fan of the show I hope it gets the send-off that it’s devoted fans hope for!

Well said Steph.

It’s great to hear that additional filming is being done to provide a series finale.

Since they are sticking with a total of 65 episodes, it doesn’t sound as though there will be extra episodes for the finale, just additional content to be added to those already produced.

Same! I hope it gets a great send off and no 800 year old Synth Riker watching their last adventure in a holodeck. ;)

LOL! No more of that!

Ouch! “A love letter to the fans” as Braga described it.

Thank you, Discovery, for SNW.

Yes, thank you Discovery for gave Star Trek a new revival and SNW. I wish you all the best of Luck

1000 times,THIS! and remember guys Even if ALL these Shows were to Go, that doesn’t mean that Better Trek is on its way.
It means, That, With Every Cancellation,
We are closer to returning to the Dark Days of No Trek On TV.


Agreed!!! No Discovery, no Pike, Spock, Number One and SNW! They even did the 1701 bridge colors and blue phasers better than SNW.

I did like those blue phasers.

I guess I should finally get back to watching it. Gave up after season 2.

I doubt it will be taken off the service, so there’s no rush. That’s what I like about streaming. Well, except for HBO Max, where apparently they just delete stuff.

Season 3 was awful. I haven’t finished four yet. I liked the first two seasons the best which seems to be the opposite of everyone else.

I just looked at the IMDb rating as compiled by TV charts, and the user ratings have steadily declined since season 1.

Discovery started with a 6.8 after the first season but it picked up to a 7.2 in its second season but has fallen to 7.0 where it currently is now. So it has climbed and fallen again but it is currently the lowest out of all the shows and that’s not really surprising seeing how divided it’s been from the start.

The most active posters in the comment section have always crapped on Star Trek. They’re not representative of the fan base and never have been.

I wouldn’t say that. It would seem the most active posters at least in the comments sections to articles I have read (and I don’t read them all and tend to not comment on articles I had no interest in reading) these days seem to be mostly positive posts to Trek. There used to be more that were critical but many of them have faded away over time. Which I find unfortunate. Not because I share the views but I prefer actual diversity of ideas. Echo chambers are no fun and I don’t think anyone can grow if they don’t hear opposing opinions.

Most people seem to at least at least like LDS, PRO and SNW on most boards. They aren’t all loved, but seem to be at least enjoyed by most. And so far (SO FAR) Picard is being raved by many in those same comment boards. So why are those treated so differently. especially being made by the same people?

The first two seasons were far from perfect, and I never really liked the magical spore drive, but they were better than the remainder.

For me, everyone season of DISCOVERY has been better than the previous season. The wrap up of season 4 is probably the Trekiest Trek that ever trekked.

(But different people like different things!)

So did I.
That finale was awful. The Enterprise ejected shuttle in such numbers that you’d think she has the internal volume of a TARDIS. The front third of the saucer blows up with Pike being just outside the front-most room – but he’s fine. And the “we pinky-swear never to talk about the Discovery ever again” non-sense.

That season ended and so ended my motivation to watch DSC ever again.

Picard season 3 is very good so far though.

i call that the ‘Marge Simpson – That was the best vacation ever! Now let’s never speak of it again’ ending. You might see some value in Season 3 and 4. We actually get to learn more about some of the characters without them getting killed in the same episode *cough*Ariam*cough.I enjoyed Season 3 and 4 more overall. There are still some headscratching moments that seem unearned (or downright make no sense in-universe), but others where the emotional or character beats finally feel authentic.

It’s sad to learn that this is the end for them. I wish the cast and crew of Disco the best.

On the flip side it’s like 😮‍💨 okay will Trek stop trying to be Star Wars now.

Interesting. Not too long ago, I think it was Wilson Cruz who said that we would get season 5 in the spring of 2023. Now it’s not coming until 2024. And it is the last

We await word on SNW. I think we all expected Picard and then SNW and then Discovery with Lower Decks and Prodigy in there – until Cruz’s comments. Now, I wonder if we will see SNW close on the heels with Picard, or if we will have to wait until much later this year.

I have been running annual subscriptions with Paramount+ based on getting 40+ new weeks of Star Trek a year. But I can antipcate kicking it down to monthly if there are multiple months here where we don’t get a show. I doubt that LowerDecks and Prodigy are ready to go yet.

I wonder if this is perhaps related to seeing what the response was to Shaw and the Titan.

I did notice that multiple times I was getting ads for SNW on both Picard and Ready Room this week. Not for new stuff, but for what is already there. I was wondering if hey are starting to prime the pump before announcements.

Preproduction appears to be happening in Mississauga already for SNW S3.

Now that can always be shut down, but it’s a good sign.


I have been re-watching season 2 and plan to watch seasons 3 and 4 before the show airs its final season.

It’s good they know this in advance; the show can get a proper send-off.

As you said the show launched the new line of Trek shows we’re enjoying and I would far rather see the show make its conclusion on its terms before being asked to leave the stage.

Looking forward to catching up and seeing this last season n 2024.

… and who knows, by then there may be more new series, maybe even a Trek movie (of some sort), hopefully much more SNW, LDS…

“all good things…”

They didn’t know this in advance though. Season 5 has wrapped some time ago already. The actors probably all had to find out just now, during their hiatus.

Exactly. This is a kick in the teeth.

What they meant was it’s good that they (the shows production, now the actors) know this in advance of the season airing instead of how some shows just get cancelled and not finished after a season starts airing or just after.

They know in advance now that it will be the final season, which means they can (and now apparently are according to reports) shoot more content to wrap up the series.

Doug Jones is currently on the Star Trek Cruise. Someone posted a video on Twitter of his interview with Connor Trinneer; he said the cast just got the news this morning on a “tearful” Zoom call.


That’s got to be tough.

But it seems that they new a decision was coming one way or another.

That is so disrespectful and awful.

“This morning” as in literal the same day as us? Or “this morning” some time ago? Don’t know when that interview was.

I am one who echoed the first post in this thread in my head when the news broke (thinking “Finally!”), but it seems quite cold of P+ to announce the cancelation WHILE the cruise is going on! 🚢🫲🤨🫱

Or… could there be some calculation on the part of the decision makers to announce it right now, WHILE their on-air talent basically has a “security blanket of fans” around them? 🫣😅

Hm. So that’s just PIC, SNW, LDS and Prodigy on the schedule for 2023, then? Yeah, time to look over the numbers and see if it’s worth to going back to the monthly sub on P+, because it definitely seems like they’re going to start spacing the seasons out.

Fortunately I enjoy P+ for a lot of non-Trek programming, but yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s now a month or two gap between PIC and SNW. 10 episodes for SNW S2, 10 for LDS S4, and 10 for Prodigy S2 Part 1 …

Agreed. And frankly, I like that. I don’t need 50 episodes of Trek a year. The franchise would be smart to scale down to 3 adult-skewing shows and 1 kids. Two live-action, 1 animated. With PIC and DSC ending, I can see one new show being announced soon, potentially a Picard spin-off.

But I could also see them ending LDS after 4 years. A light-hearted wacky Trek animated comedy isn’t the deepest concept, it doesn’t need to be run into the ground.

Alpha Predator, you of all folks here, know that not every fan watches every Trek show though.

So, there has to be crosswalks between the target audiences of the various Trek offerings and other Paramount+ shows. That is, they can’t be counting of subscribers to be held by Trek only and vice versa.

I suspect that the powers that be are carefully tracking the demographics and the cross viewing habits to work out which combinations of shows share audiences.

Which brings me to this January…

My bet is that any cross genre synergies between Trek and the werewolf show and movie didn’t materialize, but those with the boomer and Gen-X audiences of the Sheridan properties are.

That’s still 40 weeks of trek. Just like last year.

10 Pic
10 SNW
10 LD
10 PRO (first half)

Yeah but the question is what comes after that? PIC and DIS are ending and so far, there’s been no word if LDS, SNW and PRO are getting any more seasons yet. 2023 will mostly be covered but 2024 is now looking very bare outside of Discovery and the second half of PRO.

I think Prodigy has self destructed going from kids on the frontier to Voyager Ii complete with horrid nonsensical time travel loops. A far cry from TAS with some STEM.
She’s dead Jim.

And yet Prodigy is one of the most popular shows on this site and in fandom. I don’t think it’s ‘dead’ just because you don’t personally like time travel in it. People like me loves it for that reason and Prodigy is currently my favorite with all the new shows.

And TAS was cancelled after just 22 episodes.

I think the ratings will drop which is sad because it started out strong. I even liked holo Janeway.
Make no mistake, kids on the final frontier, exploring and finding themselves was a winner. Throw some STEM in there and it would be great for parents and kids (we need for find crystals that we can use matter and antimatter for warp, interstellar distances, etc).
But now it has transformed into the worst of Voyager (apart from turning into lizards) – generic starships, nonsensical time travel reset loops, etc.
That’s great for those who are all “OOOOHHHH REAL JANEWAY!!!!” but I think that’s a loser for kids. Hell, it’s a loser for some of my generation that thought Voyager sucked.
Maybe I’ll be wrong on this, we will see.

Dude no one cares about that but you. No one has ever said PRO would be a STEM show lol. Again, this is what happens when fans decide in their head what something is suppose to be although no one has remotely ever suggested in the first place. And fans here has never talk about it here either or cares, literally just you. No one pretends Star Trek is a science fact show. It’s ridiculous to think it is when in an episode you run into Apollo. It’s a crazy fun smart and whacky show with SOME science fact thrown in from time to time, but that’s it.

And the reason a lot of adults are watching the show is because of Janeway in the first place. And I’m more excited it’s going to be a bigger Voyager show next season, because I love Voyager!

Yes, no parents care about STEM shows and everyone loves Voyager…. whatever floats your boat, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

No, they don’t care about it on a TV SHOW lol. 99% of animated shows and moves are made to, shockingly, just entertain kids. Can you tell me how many cartoons out there are educating kids in STEM please? List them.

We don’t have to agree to disagree, because most kid shows aren’t STEM based, nor need to be. And thanks to something called the internet, there are actually better and more direct ways to teach kids about science. There are tons of YouTube videos that’s designed to teach them along with hundreds of websites. I imagine that will actually benefit them than most TV shows ever would.

And yeah no one cares about Prodigy being a STEM show but you because no one else here has ever mentioned it lol.

So your message to Nickelodeon is that this is just another generic TV show of limited educational value that appeals to old adults that miss real Janeway.
Well I agree that’s the message of Prodigy season 2 which is why I think she’s gone with the wreckage of the Protostar.

My message to Nickelodeon is Prodigy is an amazing Star Trek show that is introducing kids to the Star Trek universe with its various characters, history and tropes splendidly without talking down to them and to keep it up please. I don’t think they need to get a lesson in quantum mechanics just to enjoy it lol.

Sorry they didn’t make the show how you personally wanted it to be made. ;)

Tiger2, you’re off regarding parents not caring about STEM content in kids shows.

Our kids definitely got their screen time prioritized by educational content up until their teens. That’s why the Dragons franchise (movies, television and games) got more time when ours were tweens.

Prodigy is lighter on STEM but doing well on social learning, so it still gets high marks on Common Sense Media – which was our ‘go to’ resource to get information decide what to encourage, discourage or outright censor.

On the other hand Cmd. Bremmon is also off because he just can’t accept that Voyager is the most popular show with the younger set.

I have said it here before, no one was more surprised than my spouse and I when Voyager definitely became our kids Trek. I knew it was huge when one of ours wrote a middle school essay about Janeway as their hero. My spouse still doesn’t get it, but w rewatched enough Voyager with our kids understand why.

When the stats from Netflix showed it was the most streamed Trek show, I was wasn’t surprised.

OK fine but most kid shows and movies are not STEM based, that’s my only real point. Yes there are some, but it’s not exactly that prominent either. Disney is known for the biggest animated movies of all time, I can’t think of a single movie in all that time that tries to teach kids anything seriously. Pixar makes movies I would say is informative in some ways but still doesn’t go out their way to really teach kids either, but I haven’t seen all the movies.

And my main point was no one ever suggested the show would be some guide to learn about how real science work other than when its important to the story like most of Star Trek is. There is real science in every one of the shows, things I had never heard about until I heard about it on the show like the Dyson Sphere for example. But the show isn’t meant to be a science lesson either and no one said that was the point of Prodigy. It’s just funny how he, per usual, got something in his head no one ever suggested the show would be and now disappointed about it and now claiming the show is a failure lol.

Just bizarre.

As for Voyager, Janeway was the first captain scientist in the franchise which is great and got young girls into science including Erin Macdonald as you know who is now a science advisor on Star Trek including Prodigy which she even appeared on. So it has come full circle!

So yeah in that view, Star Trek has become famous for influencing many people to become scientists, doctors and engineers. But it was designed to be entertainment first and foremost.

Wonder how long before the Fandom Menace start shouting about how they were right…

Has doomcock ever been right? I mean despite him being right about the leaks for the unmade Duel of the fates script, he is as accurate as Mike Zeroh. Oh right he wasn’t right about Kurtzman and Kathleen Kennedy being fired, but he was right about time travel in Indiana Jones V.

Dude I don’t even want to go to YouTube the next few days lol. There are going to be a lot of ‘celebrations’ over this.

“Stopped clock is right twice a day” scenario here.

No one should be rewarding them with views.

Yeah but we know there will be plenty now. It’s going to be a jubilation on a lot of those channels unfortunately.

Bring on Star Trek Titan Season 1!


Likely, actually. They need to clear space for a new series and Discovery was the one that got pushed aside.

I think many simply assumed they would be adding series without cancelling others.

They needed to clear space for saving money is more likely I think.


Discovery had a good run. Gonna miss Jett Reno. I take no pleasure in being correct that this season is its last. That they are pushing it out to 2024 also suggests any new content across all the shows will only be what is in production/post production now.

All it said was ending in early 2024. I interpreted that as meaning that the season could start in 2023 and continue into 2024. I could be wrong.

The article says season five premiers early 2024. I’m interpreting this, in conjunction with the post a couple days ago that P+ is cutting shows, that the Trek tree is getting pruned, not grafted. Whatever is currently under contract will be spread out over two years now (23/24). No new shows, and a renewal for SNW’s later in the year, to air in 2025.

Sounds about right.

You were right, Phil. Good call.

Still one more season than Enterprise. and two more than TOS. Five seasons is pretty good considering the remake of Lost in Space only made it three seasons.

They won’t get to ENT’s 98 episode mark, however.
I wonder if any Trek series will ever reach TNG’s 176 episodes again.

at 10 episodes per season, that’s over 17 years of renewals

178 for TNG

Are you counting the pilot and finale as four separate episodes?

Yes, as they are really 2 parters.

I don’t know if any streaming scripted shows that make 26ish episodes a season anymore.

Will any ever get TOS’s 78 again?

(was it 78? It’s somewhere near there)


Missed it by that much.

It’s fair to wonder if any scripted, live action series will produce 176 episodes again that isn’t a procedural like the Law & Order franchise.

Yeah it’s not a bad run overall. The way streaming is, it’s a bit surprising it lasted this long lol.

I got through the first season of LIS, never watched the last two. Always planned to but never got there…because I’m always too busy watching 20+ year old Star Trek reruns. ;D

Maybe no surprise given all the other indications out there, but the Hollywood Reporter is saying that they’re going to do some additional filming so as to give the show more of a conclusion — which certainly suggests this was unplanned. I imagine that all of Hollywood’s recent belt-tightening — plus the emergence of SNW, and the (apparent, I think?) fan interest in seeing more of the 25th century (perhaps with more legacy cameos/roles) — made cancelling Discovery a prime way to cut costs.

I think you pretty much nailed it. With SNW having immediately become the new flagship series, and the possibility of a live-action series continuing what’s been established in Picard, Discovery feels somewhat detached from the rest of the franchise now, and probably the one they feel they can drop as a cost-cutting measure.

Still, five seasons of prestige-format streaming TV is nothing to shake a stick at. The haters were plain wrong about it being a failure, no matter what BS they spew.

DSC is probably the most expensive of the live action shows, considering its age. So if the goal is to keep SNW going – I did read a rumor on Twitter that filming for Season 3 is set to begin shortly – and possibly start working on a new 25th Century show then it would make sense for the oldest show to go. Personally I will miss DSC, with a few exceptions here and there I’ve really enjoyed it. I hope you end up being right about what’s being reported in the Hollywood Reporter. If this move was unplanned, it would be nice if they went back and filmed a bit more (say, moving the final season back to 13 episodes) to give a proper send-off.

That’s good they plan to give it a conclusion. Hopefully it won’t be a holodeck finale.

In the current stable of shows, I only see SNW’s as a lock for one more season, and it may be out aways. Anything in development maybe gets greenlit at years end, if at all.

I had read elsewhere that any further seasons would have required new contracts with the actors.

We think of the initial contracts being extendable up to 7 seasons, but this source said that in fact SAG contracts are for 7 calendar years. Further extensions and renewals can be a significant financial commitment so even in linear television, they’re rare.

So, with COVID a delays and the initial challenges launching the first new franchise show in decades, 5 seasons in seven years seems a major achievement in the streaming era.

Again, none of this should be a big shock. Discovery was already a dinosaur by streaming standards and it was only getting more expensive. It sounds like no one working on it knew it was going to get cancelled but yeah making it five seasons these days for streaming is an amazing accomplishment. Now I’m wondering if shows like SNW or PRO will even get that far considering they are only two seasons in and who knows what will happen the next few years now?

Contract extensions are pretty much standard and get renegotiated. I don’t think that was the biggest contributing factor here (or Covid). Actors are released from their contracts so they can pursue other work. That isn’t what we’re seeing. Someone ran the numbers and determined that they weren’t there to move forward beyond season 5.

I wouldn’t go that that far. I’ve claimed from day one that Star Trek Discovery was a bit of an unscrewable pooch. No matter how it was received or how many viewers I figured it would get a minimum of 3 seasons and probably even 4.

Agreed. Good news btw if that’s true about the additional filming. Hoping for an extra actual series finale, but probably just some add-on scenes for the final episode.

A Discovery follow up is the place for an Academy series, in a “rebuilding” Federation. Then you get to do Prodigy with the kids learning about Trek / rebuilding the Federation that it isn’t just 90210 in space. You can then connect it with Section 31 if you want. Discovery cast can come along/cameos/etc.

P+ is cutting costs. Anything in development is likely going to stay “in development” for quite a while.

Not necessarily. If Picard S3 does huge numbers, they’ll want a spin-off to capitalize on that.

Won’t happen. Picard was a special one off to satisfy Patrick Stewarts demands for working in LA. No more Trek shows are gonna happen there. Titan sets have been destroyed already. There’s a chance they might rejig something up in Toronto I guess, but at this point it could do the best numbers ever and still get cancelled. That’s how fucked streaming is at the moment.

Agreed, that’s a pipe dream

Yeah I think if there is a spin off it will be shot in Canada too. But only Stewart really wanted that and if he’s done then the others will happily relocate there if they want to do more, assuming there will be more and there may not be obviously.

Matalas was running 12 Monkeys in Toronto before American production really took off there. The show is one of the ones that made shooting at the old Hearn generating station cool.

He certainly can do it again, with a real CBS-owned studio to work in.

I agree with Alpha. I suspect that there are x number of slots in Paramount’s budget for live action Star Trek. Whether linear or non-linear, if the numbers are there they want to keep that momentum going.

A decision has already been made. We’re just not in the know.

FWIW, at least one person involved with Picard made a cryptic tweet this evening about “waiting for the phone to ring” now that Discovery is ending. Could be nothing, but…

But don’t forget Picard did get substantial tax rebates to film in California. Does it totally offset how cheap Canada is? No. But $15 million a season is not chump change.

They get provincial and federal tax credits in Ontario also.

In fact they could likely increase those if they chose to have a Canadian in the main cast, or as one of the EPs.

I would think they could rework Discovery’s sets for Titan. Remember that they actually built a whole new 1701 bridge, but when it came time to do SNW, they reworked that bridge set.

In fact, I wonder if that may be one of the reasons for this announcement, so that a Captain Shaw/Titan production can take over Discovery’s sets.

I doubt they’d extend a lease when they can use their own studio.

Discovery’s sets are at Pinewood Studios Toronto on the east side of the city.

CBS Stages in Mississauga is where principal production of SNW is taking place. The Enterprise bridge in SNW was rebuilt from the Pinewood one on Discovery S2z

I think it’s plausible that we might have still have two live action shows plus one or two animated shows moving forward — SNW and a 25th century live-action, plus Prodigy and Lower Decks (with the latter, on account of its age and the difficulty of keeping such highly allusive comedy fresh, being the first to go into spacedock).

As for the others, I think there are probably creative reasons why the Georgiou/Section 31 and Academy shows have been floating out there for so long without any real steps forward. And now, with costs being cut… If Michelle Yeoh wins an Oscar I think we can rule out her show ever happening — she’s going to have a full dance card. And the idea of a show at Starfleet Academy has been around for what, 35 years or so? I suspect that the decision to cancel Discovery means that Paramount is no longer in the 31st century business, meaning that this latest incarnation of the idea (which IIRC might have involved Tilly as a professor) is probably out too. (I do think it’s possible that the 25th century show will be retooled to be the Academy show — you could have a cheap young main cast, a compelling part of the timeline, and cameos from the likes of Prof. Miles O’Brien and Commodore LaForge.)

Or, they could just stretch things out further.

I had a feeling this was going to happen even before they announced cost cutting. I love it, but 5 Trek series in production with 2 possibly in development, and another potential in development now in the Picard timeline is going to be a lot. And there’s a difference in new shoes with brand new actors and new shoes with established characters and actors not getting paid new show money.

So I felt this was going to come eventually.

I see SNW going for a few more seasons. It’s done well and could likely hit 5 seasons.

I see LD and PRO going a few more seasons. Lower production costs, shorter run times. Popular. And they can cross air Prodigy on terrestrial TV to get more bang for the buck.

A 30th century Starfleet Academy series could be done cheaper than Disco and they already have sets. Tilly would be the only one getting higher pay most likely. Maybe the Fleet Admiral.

If they do Section 31, Michelle is a ‘rising’ (again) star so while they’d have to pay her more, everyone else could be brand new. And do they still have the sets for Leland’s ship?

And then there’s a potential TNNG 25th century show. If Seven and Raffi are in it they’d command more money. Laforge(s) Jr wouldn’t. And they have sets that can be modified if needed, so much like SNW, it’s rolling the costs of building a bridge into a new show (which they’ll have done twice as the set went from Stargazer to Titan which means they could keep it as Titan if the ship survives or modify it). So that’s possible.

And those three could be stretched out further.

Picard and Disco are both definitely more expensive to continue at this point. It makes sense to sunset them and then use the other three potentials spaced out over more time.

I think the odds of a Discovery spinoff series are slim. From a programming perspective, you’re not going to spinoff a series from another with declining viewership. There’s not a lot to build off of and they did move forward with a Section 31 series it wold likely be connected in some way to SNW.

Sadly I feel the same now. I say sadly because I want them to continue more stories in the 32nd century. I think the Academy show was going to be set in that time and it still may happen but I have my doubts now. DIS obviously wasn’t planned to end like Picard was, it was cancelled, so that changes things.

But who knows, maybe that or a S31 show will still happen, but probably not anytime soon.

I’ve just never felt the Academy show was a really viable project.

How many ‘cool college kid’ shows are sustainable?

Pandora had its principal character off on a ship by season two.

Interestingly, the guy who’s pulled it off is Henry Alonso Myers with ‘The Magicians.’

But Myers will surely be all-in with SNW now that Goldsmans signed with WB Studios.

I mean they been talking up the Academy show as long as they been with S31 and I know you have more faith the S31 show will happen, I feel they are both still very much in the air. The Academy show seemed more viable when we learned that’s where Tilly would be, but it looks like that is now over and she’s back on the ship. Man, Discovery lol. So I don’t know where either really stand now?

That said, I do think a S31 show has a better chance, so we’ll see.

BTW, I don’t know if you saw my post about this a few weeks back but I started watching Travelers! I’m one episode away from finishing season one and yeah LOVING it! Not as good as 12 Monkeys but good! So thank you for the suggestion.

But on the opposite spectrum, Continuum isn’t playing anywhere in America right now. The only option (legally) is to buy the show outright. I just don’t get is, we hae 100 streaming sites now, it seems like every show and movie could be viewed SOME where in this day and age but I guess not. But I’ll check that out if it’s at least available for rent somewhere.

Glad you like Travelers!

I went to rewatch 12 Monkeys, only to find it isn’t available to stream in Canada either.

So, I’m looking at DVDs or a high per season price to buy online. Yikes!

Yeah that is still the issue with streaming, what’s there today may be gone tomorrow, unless something was made specifically for the service obviously. And even that’s not a guarantee anymore with shows like Westworld (another abruptly cancelled show) leaving HBOMax to be licensed on other platforms.

But yeah definitely enjoying it! Time travel stories gets me every time lol. And this is a bit more unique how they did it. I plan to rewatch 12 Monkeys after Picard season 3 and hope it’s still around when by then.

That’s why you’d have to do an Academy series in the 32nd century as opposed to 23/24/25th so it just isn’t just college kids going to class. These cadets would have to be relearning Starfleet, rebuilding the Fed too. I could see that working.

I just don’t see the appeal for a 30th century academy show. I have always thought the “money” was in making a show that followed the TNG/DS9/VOY time line (basically the time Picard is set in). That’s why the Picard spin off show to me has the best chance of actually getting made. I think it would be able to just allow us to continue to live in that universe and I think that’s where most trek fans want to be.

According to someone somewhere I read, it’s ‘confirmed’ the Academy show is suppose to take place in the 32nd century but I don’t disagree with you, i think most fans want to continue in the TNG era and why we have so many shows there now, so who knows?

But I imagine we will still get a Picard spin off of some kind, it just may not be the next show either.

Honestly surprised Discovery’s being cancelled, I thought it was a good performer for Paramount. Then again, personally I never really connected to it, so it’s not a huge loss in my eyes. If this means we swap this Trek show for another new one that spins off from Picard, then this is a good trade indeed. Granted, we may swap this for another show set in the same Discovery timeframe, with the Starfleet Academy show. The one thing I enjoyed about Discovery was seeing some distant new technologies and the evolution of certain races. That was great, but ultimately I’m hoping for a new show set in the 25th century.

I’d like to see more of the 32nd century too, but with perhaps a different showrunner and writers room.

I believe that there’s lots of scope for future stories, but that Discovery’s perpetual ‘chosen one’ heroes journey trope (Captain and ship both) held it back from making the most of the new time period.

And no, an Academy story wouldn’t make it better.

Since SNW came out, it seems that they are trying to erase the Discovery, very much like they did at the end of Season Two, but this time it’s Paramount+, not Starfleet doing the erasing.

The entire design asthetic of the Discovery SNW timeline is now a neo-TOS style, instead of the radically different Discovery style. The 1701 uniforms, which were pretty good in Discovery season 2, were also totally reworked to get them to a more modern, yet closer to TOS style.

Lower Decks and Prodigy come from the TOS/TNG style timeline

Picard Seasons 1 & 2 departed a bit, but now is firmly in the TOS/TNG style, actually more TOS than TNG, judging by the exterior, most notably the saucer, the corridors, and the med bay. That too is trying to erase Seasons 1 & 2.

Ugh. This is heartbreaking.

I haven’t watched since mid Season 3. Don’t like the series at all. But I am sad for all the people who watch it and love it. I know there’s a ton of them.

Thanks. Yeah, I’m disappointed, but relieved that they are going to do more filming to give it proper closure.

There are a lot of young woman and diverse human beings who were brought into Trek by this series. I hope they have a plan for keeping that audience – a S31 series with Yeoh and Seven in the lead roles would be one way to do that.

There is no such thing as a diverse human being, you do realise that diversity means lots of different types. It seems Americans think the word means non-white.

While I’m not a fan of Discovery in the 32nd century, it is disappointing that this will be the final season. And I agree that Discovery introduced many viewers to Trek, as questionable as some of the writing is, it does draw in a particular demographic that might not have been familiar with Trek previously. (and fyi, I’m actually one of those young women who were introduced to Trek by Discovery.. and many of us do love Georgiou and Seven)


Out of genuine curiosity, why do you find it heartbreaking? Five seasons is a good run for a streaming drama, and the show makers at least get a chance to end the series with a planned finale (unlike some series like West World).

If it ran for it’s legit 5 seasons so be it. It’s just sad WHY it’s ending for me more so than how long it lasted. The industry as a whole has their collective heads up their a$$es if they think they are going to cut original programming and then charge us more for what’s left.

I am not surprised, and I guess I shouldn’t be surprised they are spacing out releases since they haven’t ordered any new seasons or shows yet. If they were to release the entire backlog this year, 2024 would be nearly Trekless since it takes nearly 2-years from green-light to broadcast. It also likely means 2022 was peak Star Trek density as they start to thin out the show count.

It has been rumored SNW will begin filming its third season later this spring.

Yes, more than rumour.

The guild notices in Ontario started to show preproduction in train under the show’s pseudonym in Mississauga (CBS Stages) as of the week Picard premiered, with production scheduled to start in May.

It’s always possible that it will be canceled, but SNW shot the entire second season before the official confirmation it was greenlit.

Great to hear!

I assumed SNW was safe for a S3 renewal, perhaps the only show that is safe considering how well it’s been received. S3 would probably be ready to air as soon as autumn 2024.

Good to hear.

My sense is that LDS will be the shoe to drop. And I don’t think we are getting a Picard follow on.

And this may mean absolutely nothing, but Celia Rose Gooding posted about scoring tickets to see Beyoncé at the Rogers Center in Toronto in early July, which would line up with a Spring-Summer shoot for season 3.

With all the talk of cost cutting at Paramout+ (and across streamers in general at the moment) I doubt that even with the ending of Picard and Discovery we will be getting both the Titan/Legacy and Section 31 shows.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up merging those two ideas into one show. Raffi and Georgio working in section 31, with room for Worf and Bashir etc to appear as legacy characters with them, and Seven and co on the Titan with starfleet legacy characters there.

Instead of having the entire show be focused on section 31, it could be about how section 31 vs starfleet attack the same scenarios, the conflicts between the two arms, even the conflict between Seven and Raffi both on either side of it.

They still seem keen to snag Michelle Yeoh and there is so much talk about the legacy show but I just don’t see them greenlighting two more shows, even with the end of PIC and DSC.

Ideally, i’d love the fabled Star Trek anthology show. 12 episodes a year, four 3-part stories, each in a different setting with a different cast, maybe some overlap. One can dream, I suppose.

An anthology show is probably not a smart choice if the goal is to cut costs.

Again, one can dream.

Yeah, at this point, why not play with the format and see what the fans and audiences like. Keeping the casts to talented unknowns will do a great deal to control costs, and the innovation will hopefully keep the franchise fresh and interesting.

I personally quite liked the “Short Treks” format, finding a couple of them to be amongst the best programming of the Kurtzman era.

I think if they were creative with their concepts, built standing sets that could be redressed as different ships in different eras, it could definitely work on reasonable budget.

Totally agree; I miss Short Treks.

I like the idea of that, and had hoped that was what Short Treks was going to morph into. Sadly though I think it’s a little cost prohibitive having new sets, costumes, new ship assets etc. That might be a good fit for an animated show though once LDS and PRO have ended. Either way, if they make it I’d watch it!

And what a dream! Such a great idea. That format would allow for different writers and directors to get involved too who might not get the chance otherwise, which could be really interesting.

Love this. Captian Rachel Garret on Enterprise-C, Young Picard on Stargazer, so many interesting options

But if they cut too much, what’s the impact on Paramount+? If it goes down to one live action, and a couple animated, will people keep their year long subscriptions, or will they drop down to a couple months a year? How many Trek fans are keeping Paramount+ all year? If it’s even a million, that’s $120m in revenue lost if they drop their annual subs. I’d bet it’s more than that.

I have started watching a lot of Paramount+, in fact I need to go watch Your Honor as I think the new one dropped tonight — but I know I won’t keep it on annual, I’ll click it on and off on Amazon Prime for SNW and LD, and watch Prodigy during one of those 2 month periods I am subscribed.

I will admit we rotate our Paramount+ subscription based on what new Trek offerings are dropping.

When Paramount announced that PIC and LDS were finally joining the other Trek offerings on Paramount+, it did give the impression that they see new Trek as being important to the service in terms of driving subscriptions.

Obviously for anyone who cares enough about Trek to discuss it on a site like this, Trek is going to be one of the main reasons to subscribe to Paramount+. But things like this can be a bit on an echo chamber. I’d love to know actual numbers for correlation between new Trek offerings and new subscribers, but that kind of data is usually kept very private by streamers.

Personally I felt that with SNW season 1, DSC season 4 and PIC season 3, Paramount+ had finally ironed out most of the kinks and they were hitting their stride with new live action Trek. Still holding out hope that the end of DSC and PIC is more of a course correction towards more live action content with new shows benefiting from the lessons they’ve learned rather than the beginning of the end.

Part of me just fears that the end of PIC and the end of DSC doesn’t bode well for the future of the franchise as a whole, but I am also more than aware this could just be me projecting my worst fears lol. We all new this new golden age couldn’t last forever. Hoping to be proven wrong though.

I think they could easily settle on doing a single live action Star Trek in the form of SNW for several years, and then if that is still strong introduce a new series of some sort then

That actually sounds pretty interesting. I never liked Section 31at all, but if you’re going to have it on a Star Trek show, contrasting its methods with those of Starfleet by using established characters on both sides might have some dramatic potential. By ‘established characters,’ though, I’m not talking about Michelle Yeoh, who is (and probably always was) far too popular and in-demand to be confined to anything but guest appearances on television, and whose terrible-emperor-from-another-universe-turned-sorta-good-guy was too inside-baseball for general audiences in any case.

Sonequa Martin-Green is amazing. I’m gutted that we won’t be seeing her after this next season. I truly love Captian Michael Burnham and this incarnation of Trek. Trying to be happy that it happened, not sad that it is ending. But that will be difficult. Ouch. This hurts.

Same here! It’s my favorite among the trek shows. I hope they find a way to continue to tell the stories of the 32nd Century.

Me too! Sad day.

Yes, those whispers in every crisis are just amazing. And those emotions. Yes, let’s share our emotions in the middle of a crisis and work on our relationships while our ship is blown to hell.

Getting snarky over others liking what they like is not a good look.

New Series Alert

But what?

Section 31? Academy? Titan? Kelvin movie 4 (as a series)?

Much more likely, anything in development stays there for quite a while.

Definitely Paramount+ needs to stretch out limited resources, but on the other hand they’re gonna have to put out some kind of new content eventually, or else why would they expect subscriptions to be renewed? I would guess that since Trek is a valuable, instantly recognizable pop-culture franchise, it would be in their self interest to eventually add seasons to existing shows or introduce a new series. What’s their other option, just let it wither?

Paramount+ needs to be more than the Star Trek Channel. It makes sense to have more diverse original programming in order to attract a larger and broader audience and there are only so many dollars to go around. It makes sense to cut back on ST and spend on other content.

I think this means the end of the Discovery line, and getting Michelle Yeoh has to be getting harder and more expensive, so I would think Sec 31 is a very long shot. Likewise, Academy is probably a long shot too.

The Titan show I would expect that will be announced at some show coming up.
If it is announced this year, then it won’t come until 2025, unless they start production soon, and that could happen, just unlikely..

I just don’t think its going to be one Live Action show. I would expect an SNW season 3 next year, and then SNW Season 4 and another show, probably Titan in 2025.

Still think it’s possible we may see a Kirk show spin up too, in parallel with SNW for one year, before the Kirk takes the Enterprise and we get ST Year One.

The Kelvin stuff is dead.

It’s a return on investment question. Paramount is willing to spend $23 million per episode on 1923 with A-listers Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren.

If Yeoh is still keen to do it, a very expensive 6, 8 or 10 episode prestige limited Star Trek series could still happen.

I just don’t think as many people want the S31 show as Kurtzman was thinking. For me, I never liked the idea of it, and it was made up of badmirals. And while I like Yeoh, I hate Georgio. I would have liked prime Georgio, but this one is a mass murderer and one of the most ridiculous things has been everyone just forgetting that because Burnham and her are BFF.

ENT should have been Yellowstone in space with UESPA being a bunch of post WW3 Zephram Cochrane Montana types trying to get humanity into the final frontier only for them, seen as barbarians by the logical and weak prey by enemies, to completely change the fate of the galaxy.

Yeah, because no big stars participate in streaming series.

I actually wondered whether the version of Worf we’re seeing in Picard might be setting up a Section 31 show anchored around him instead.

Not yet. Pulling the plug on DIS so unexpectedly that they need to come back for reshoots so they can have a proper ending doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence that anything new is in the pipeline.

Correct. I very much doubt there will be a replacement Trek show for Star Trek Discovery or Picard for quite some time. And when it does come (hopefully with a new production company) it’s very likely the budgets will be much lower. But that’s not a bad thing. I’ve often claimed that Trek doesn’t need to throw tons of money into sets and SPFX. They are more reliant on scripts. Story. You get those down there is a way to make the rest be good enough to sustain a well written Trek adventure.

We are in the 4K streaming era, there’s a limit to how much can be cut down.


That works both ways. There are ways to make things still look good without spending tons of money. Streaming has nothing to do with it. It’s the 4K. Which honestly isn’t much better than HD.

Never a fan, I’ve so wanted to be and have tried a few times but I’ve always found the writing and some of the characterisations weak. So happy though that we still have plenty of other Trek to watch. Well done to the cast for getting to season 5.

I think Discovery was a big hit early on, but then Picard premiered and was even bigger, then SNW did better than that, it suddenly doesn’t compare.

But… I would not be at all surprised if they returned to Discovery for a miniseries, a spin-off, even a streaming movie, at some point. The characters are popular, no matter what anyone says.

I only like Saru, he is awesome.

As much as I hated S3, I do think the character of Book is interesting, and the actor is great. I like Kovech, Oded Fehrer was excellent, too.

There’s a clip from a TNG/Picard panel on the current Star Trek cruise.

They were, naturally, asked about further seasons.

Marina Sirtis was very candid. She underscored that it was a business decision, and said that it was known that Paramount had lost subscribers, so that it remained to be seen if this season would bring them back.

By that, it sounds like she was saying that it previous assumptions that Trek fans would watch anything Trek have not held up.

This backs up the case that Paramount is paying attention to subscriber churn, and looking for the Trek shows with the best ability to hold the audience and cover the demographics.

previous assumptions that Trek fans would watch anything Trek have not held up.

Shocking, isn’t it?

A bad assumption to make as there was really no evidence for that. Because even the worse shows of the past were THAT bad. This is the first time Trek fans have come face to face with a truly awful product. Is it no surprise that the numbers may not be there over time?


…the worse shows of the past weren’t THAT bad.

Enterprise was and is truly awful

OK. I liked Enterprise quite a bit. It’s my 3rd favorite series. Enterprise’s problems stemmed from things out of their control. But that’s another discussion.

Ent gave us perfect starships, perfect Earth, interstellar comms, transporters, phasers on stun and peace with the Klingons in the first hour in a series that should have been ethical mine fields, nuclear weapons, challenges
and hardships. After the pilot everyone should have been asking “how does this mess become the Federation”… and stayed tune to find out.

I saw an Earth that was far from the perfect utopia TNG presented. The interstellar Comms came from the “Echo” stations they set up. The transporters started off as something they weren’t going to use for people but once they said “approved for human transport” it was kinda obvious they were going to get used more than they should. Even the show’s producers regretted that. But I think they ultimately did deal with the “How does this mess become the Federation” question. You are liking SNW. I’d say Enterprise embraced those elements WAY more than SNW has. Even if you ignore the canon violations.

Well yes, Manny Coto tried to erase the first two season and start over that it got good (and he had the Kzinti showing up in the cancelled season which would have been totally awesome!) but it was too little too late.

Coto had a lot of great ideas for the 5th season. But yeah… The circumstances for Trek were not good for a number of reasons by that point.

Agreed. Unlike you, I liked TNG at its best, but in its own time frame. “Enterprise” was supposed to be a prequel to TOS, yet due to misguided production decisions (and, most likely, studio meddling) felt more like TNG than a series that should have been set in a far more free-wheeling era. (The time travel subplot was a real bust, and I understood the show to be in real trouble when Brannon Braga admitted that they had no idea when they started who Future Guy was.) To his credit Manny Coto did his best to address some of those issues in the fourth season, with mixed results, but by then it was too little, too late.

It’s NOT another discussion, unless you think there is some way to objectively evaluate and quantify artistic value. There isn’t. You liked “Enterprise;” I found it to be (mostly) a dull, turgid mess. You thought Trek 2009 was terrific; for me it was a godawful insult to my intelligence that treated my favorite franchise as if it had its origins as a Marvel comic rather than an intelligent, idealistic ’60s TV space opera. I find the Kurtzman output to be a mixed bag, while you consider it to be “awful product.” The point is that neither of us is right, or wrong, yet you keep making these declarative statements as if there is an objective standard in these things, or that you speak for all (or even a majority) of fans. There isn’t, and you don’t.

I don’t think you truly understood what I wrote. I wasn’t talking about artistic, writing and production design stuff. I was referring to studio and network issues which IS a different matter entirely.

For the record, I never referred to Trek ’09 as “terrific”. Not sure where you got that from. Dial it back, chief. No one is making declarative statements regarding objective standards. Get a better grasp on the post you are responding to before you run off half-cocked next time.

Well, it seems like Sir Patrick had to learn the hard way.

I think he came to terms with the limits of his creative control in season three, after there was little audience appetite even before season two streamed.

He had some input in Insurrection. That didn’t go over very well.

Nor did the dune buggy scene in Nemesis..

Was that his idea? I thought it was an action sequence because it was thought the movie was slowing down there some.
And BTW… I felt that was probably the only real misstep in that movie.

I ready somewhere they were looking to stream line all shows to fit within the TNG era and continue to expand the universe there

From a credible source? Because I can’t imagine they’d cancel Strange New Worlds, which was a big hit and was critically acclaimed.

Not to mention with their very early on introduction of Kirk it’s not hard to see what their plans are long term.

Yeah, The Tooth Fairy.

I can certainly see that but as others said I don’t see SNW going anytime soon either. I think that show is a big hit, at least in the fan base.

But thee is a reason why three of the shows are in the TNG era now, because that’s probably where most of the fans who watch it grew up with. So I wouldn’t be surprised, but I won’t be confident any of these shows are surviving beyond their current seasons yet and we haven’t heard anything about a Picard spin off besides fans really wanting it.

I can’t believe this show will manage to eke out five awful seasons when the far superior Star Trek: Enterprise lasted only four. It’s criminal.

While I do like Enterprise more, I think you’re giving it too much credit. Also, the landscape in 2001 was wildly different and it’s absurd that you’d just ignore that.

ENT still gets 33 more episodes and ultimately that counts more, as it is more stories to re-watch.

Gunsmoke has 635 eps, so by your logic it must be a vastly superior series to any other TV western series ever…lol

Well.. You don’t last as long as it did without being at least somewhat popular.

Enterprise still got 100 episodes regardless. I don’t think any of these new shows will ever get close to that number. Discovery may even be the peak.

I agree. Could they do a 20 episode season? Sure, but they’re basically playing the ‘two for the price of one’ game.

The bigger issue IMO is that shows like Discovery were 1 story per season shows. It was already a stretch telling some of these stories over 10 eps. If they were going to do 20 they would need to break it up more kind of like ENT S4 did.

A pitfall of serialized storytelling of this type. There can be a LOT of filler while waiting for a resolution.

Enterprise was a colossal failure that got worse every season, and that was proven out by the fans dropping out continuously every season until an embarrassingly low number or remaining viewers were left at the end of season 4. Piss-poor writing, a horrible casting choice for the Captain, bad music, overdone fan service, criminally mischaracterizing Vulcans, sexist scenes gratifying a female cast member’s body, and the lamest, incrementalist piece of crap starship design in franchise history.

Other than that, it was a fantastic series.

I agree but consider the fact that Enterprise got what… 98(?) episodes to Star Trek Discovery’s 65. Criminal? A bit over the top. But it might help to remember that Discovery being in the position it was in was somewhat of an unscrewable pooch for most of it’s run.

Enterprise was and is trash and nearly killed the franchise

Yeah. It is what it is.

And yet it seems way more popular than Discovery these days lol.

Dude, I generally respect your views even when I disagree.

But Tiger2, I just don’t get how you can put any trust, credibility or time in IMdB or Rotten Tomatoes audience scores! They are completely biased by a subset of guys in the US.

I’m talking about the message boards in this case. Every time Enterprise comes up in an article anywhere, more people are way more positive about it. Many want another season. I don’t spend time just here, I’m on Reddit most of the time and trust me, many there love that show today. And we had this same discussion in the LAST thread lol.

Look, all of this stuff will have its fans and non-fans. You have made it very clear you don’t like Enterprise but also made it clear how much you love Voyager although for many people who hate Enterprise, Voyager is just as bad as that one. They used to be clumped together back in the mid to late 2000s of proof of Trek falling off, right?

Now today, both shows are considered ‘real’ Star Trek to people who hates all the new stuff from the Kelvin movies to Picard, or the first two seasons of that show.

So it’s all subjective obviously and always will be but Enterprise is a much more popular show today by people like me who originally didn’t like it. And to say people who like a show is ‘biased’ because they are from a particular country is weird. That and the fact you assume they are all guys and all from America lol. Such an odd assumption unless they state where they are from and what sex they are.

Voyager also has high ratings on RT and IMDB too, should that be discounted as well? And if so, how do you know Voyager is popular other than your kids really really likes it??

And no offense man, but you seem to forget the show is now over 20 years old and an entire new generation of fans has grown up with it sense and they are a big part why it’s more popular today. Again this has been brought up as well, they are all over Reddit just like Voyager has had a second life thanks to many new fans. It’s weird you seem to discount this but you get upset when other people discount Voyager being more popular due to new fans lol.

And Discovery seems more hated than Enterprise ever was judging by the fact it’s now in its fourth season and it hasn’t felt like it’s gotten more popular like Enterprise did, but the opposite in fact. Another reason I’m not shocked it got cancelled, but this is strictly my opinion obviously. But only a few people are morning over the show being cancelled from what I can see.

But yes, in 20 years, that show will probably become more popular in time as nostalgia starts to kick in and newer and younger fans discover it in ten years. That seems to be how it usually works, right? Even the Star Wars prequels are more popular today.

And no offense TG47, I can say the same thing to you over your obsession quoting Parrot Analysis here all the time. I don’t find that site or its figures anymore reliable than you seem to find the RT scores and yet you constantly bring it up as ‘proof’ if a show is getting an audience or not. In fact you’re the one who used it to prove just how much of a ‘hit’ Discovery was and supposedly drawing in tons of new viewers. You were saying this as recently as 1-2 months ago.

And now it’s cancelled, right? I’m not saying it doesn’t show some insight, but it’s obvious you can’t rely on that to show how popular a show is either. That’s been made clear to me for a long time, because guess what show got more ‘demand’ than all the Trek shows according to that site? It was the Orville. The few times I checked, the Orville was always higher than Discovery, SNW, Picard, etc and it too is basically cancelled after just three seasons. It’s not official yet but no one seems to be in any rush to get it back on the air and most of the actors have moved on to other things.

So dude, you always get on my case for it but yet you keep, no pun attended, parroting that site as some proof how well a Trek show is doing. Well, considering the show you told us was supposedly the most popular with a lot of new fans watching it is also the first new Trek show to be cancelled should tell you its not exactly fully accurate in itself, right?

So if you want to keep being surprised why some people bring up metrics you question, the same can be said about you and peddling that site in every thread. Because unless we get hard data on how a show is really doing in terms of terms of views, it’s meaningless IMO.

Enterprise is the series that killed the franchise. Discovery rejuvenated the franchise. Regardless of what you think of the merit of each, facts will remain facts. I quit being a Star Trek fan during Enterprise, it was that bad.

Enterprise was the biggest missed opportunity in the history of Star Trek. You really could have done wagon train to the stars with primitive tech, ethical dilemmas everywhere, challenges to overcome. Yellowstone in space.
You had the cast too, the producer just couldn’t help but make another bland season of TNG (which even now only works when it’s TWOK complete with David Marcus).

Well, Yellowstone prequels in space. Yellowstone is just Dallas with better scenery.

Finally final!

Good riddance. (Except for Cronenberg… gonna miss him.)

Saru is the only really good thing about DIS.

Forced to agree. Saru was wasted on that terrible show.

Agree. Saru and Georgiou: fairly good characters, good actors, great even (Yeoh). But that just wasn’t enough to save this anti-Trek dumpster fire.

I am personally thrilled that this show is ending.

I don’t even watch the show and I can’t imagine being excited. For me, it simply just… doesn’t exist, so whether it’s canceled or not is of no thought or concern. I can’t imagine what it must be like to live like that.

You can’t imagine being excited and you can’t imagine what it must be like to live like a person who’s thrilled that this show is cancelled. It sounds like you lack imagination, but at least you’re aware of this shortcoming.

“A man’s got to know his limitations”

I have to admit, I would be gleeful if LDS was cancelled.

I think it’s healthy for fans to just be direct — why hide the dislike for a show in meaningless, “let’s be nice” platitudes? And I am a DSC fan., but no worries, I actually prefer RM just saying what he means here.

Hmmmm… Despite recent chatter about potential Paramount+ cuts, I really wasn’t expecting this. I thought there might be one more season yet. I wonder if the showrunners have secretly known this for a while and have written an appropriate send-off for the end of season five?

Nope, it wasn’t expected from what I can tell. The Hollywood Reporter said that there will be reshoots to change the ending that was filmed to give it a proper send off.

Maybe they’ll end it like an old operetta, and beam down to the nearest vicar for a triple wedding ceremony: Michael and Book, Saru and T’Rina, Adira & Gray! Three happy couples on this day united!

That’s what the continued filming is for. They obviously filmed the season without a conclusion to the series, no they have to go back and do more work.

Discovery would have made more sense if it were set in the 25th Century.

I hope we find out what happened to Zora, Craft, the missing crew, and Discovery being abandoned.

You know, I completely forgot about all of that. Probably two reasons for that. One is the unusually long hiatus for these current shows. The other is it’s difficult to recall things like that on shows one doesn’t think very highly of.

Thank God.
(Note – don’t delete this comment, I’m completely cool with other people who like it, it just wasn’t for me. And that’s OK.)

Then why “thank God” for canceling it, when you acknowledge other people enjoyed it and you didn’t have to watch?

The decks are getting cleared for a new live action series. Based on the first three episodes of Picard this season, I hope that it is a 25th century continuation of TNG-DS9-etc.

Would Michelle Yeoh even want to do a television series now that she is a big time movie star? Time will tell.

Discovery never really worked for me, except for some of season 2 that was basically the SNW pilot. The actors all did their best with what was obviously a dysfunctional creative environment for most of the show’s run.

This is my feeling as well. Worth noting that for its first three years, Discovery was one of if not the top show on the service, but now is behind SNW, PIC just within the franchise. It makes sense for them to want to do another show that capitalizes on the success of those, rather than more of something that’s only middle-of-the-pack and fading now.

From watching interviews with Yeoh she comes across as someone who values any opportunities, regardless of her current success. Recently she has talked about what a joy it was to be considered for EEAAO because of her diminishing prospects as an ageing actress, and coupled with the fact that she is Asian, the opportunities become even more scarce.

She also said that her departure from Discovery came as a surprise to her during an interview with Wil Wheton on The Ready Room, and expressed her sadness for no longer being involved in the show. She also said of saying goodbye to the role “It’s never going to be goodbye, not if I have a hand in it” and that in her 30+ years career Georgiou had been one of the most fulfilling characters to play as an actress.

So I’d say regardless of her current success, and even if she wins that Oscar in less than two weeks time, she’d be up for returning to the role.

It’s rather telling that Paradise and the other producers couldn’t cite any lasting dramatic or cultural legacy from Discovery, beyond “representation” and “diversity and inclusion”; those aren’t nothing, to be sure, but TOS managed to break similar ground in its day and yet come up with a creative product. Discovery gave us…ghost stories.

Honestly… it was time. You can only do so many emotional baggage with a side of universe threatening storylines before your writing gets stale.

I do agree it’s probably the right time, but the celebrating here from fans who didn’t watch it is mind-bogglingly pathetic and sad to see. I knew the fandom was full of awful people since 2017 at least, but I didn’t realize how pervasive it was.

Well as someone that did watch, it was time. Writing got very redundant.

Please re-read my comment, I specifically agreed that it’s probably the right time.

Oh the people are horrible. Celebrating the cancellation of a show that real people work on and jobs lost. So much for improving ourselves that they supposedly like about Star Trek.

Ended with fewer episodes than Enterprise. Very good.

And fewer than TOS.

TOS should have ended after Season 2. Third season was pure trash, worse than any Discovery season.

No, I can’t even come close to agreeing with that. The Tholian Web alone is better than the entire run of DSC. My humble opinion only, of course.

I don’t know what you are responding to as I ignore posts by known trolls. But I will agree that there are tons of 3rd season Trek episodes besides The Tholian Web that are better than the entire run of Star Trek Discovery. Even Ellan of Troyus.

They definitely succeeded in creating a show almost unrecognizable to all other Treks before it.

Frankly, that was one of the few good things about it. I wanted something fresh and new. That was hardly my issue with it.

I feel the same.

I doubt this will be the last we see of this crew. Weren’t there rumours of a Starfleet Academy series with Mary Wiseman? Or maybe they will just bring them all back for a series of specials or mini series. We still have to find out how the ship ends up abandoned in Calypso (assuming that’s even considered canon anymore)

I’ll bet you a Federation credit that they will pretend it never happened.

Or just place it in an alternate timeline / universe with SNW.

In my head that’s where it resides already.

Yup. Same here.

I don’t understand the celebration of its cancellation by some. The show did breathe new life into the television side of Star Trek. It wasn’t perfect and I had a very difficult time connecting with it after season 2, but I am not happy it is cancelled and feel sad for the fans that did connect with it after it went to the 32nd century.

I really hope no other show is in jeopardy, especially SNW, since I have wondered if Paramount wasn’t very pleased about the streaming shows leaving their Kelvin movie franchise the odd one out after the merger.

The show was actually pretty divisive from even before it started. There were production problems left and right which were a precursor to what ended up being the final product. When it was shown it wasn’t all that popular. At best one could say fan reception was mixed. Yes, there were reports it was the most streamed show on the service but again, that’s like being the highest point in Florida. And that given what that show was doing on multiple levels it wasn’t going to be allowed to be a failure. So they kept trying to “fix” it every season. Again, not a good sign.

I was never a fan so to me the only significance of its passing is what it could mean for Trek down the line.

Not only the fans. People are celebrating people losing their jobs just because they didn’t like a tv show. Disgusting. These people have learned nothing Fromm the franchise they claim to love.

The bulk of them will move on to other projects. That’s how the business works. There are a lot of productions in Toronto.

Well, production does seem to be slowing a touch in Toronto as the streamers sort themselves out. That’s more in the sense of not growing as quickly, rather than significantly contracting.

However, WB and others are picking up now that they’ve sorted out their strategies, and CBS Studios and Paramount can be expected to be the same.

Anyway, many of the people on the production side of Discovery are well established in the region. David Cronenberg mentioned in an interview that he one of the things he enjoyed about acting on Discovery was that many of the crew had worked for him previously or were the children of people who’d worked for him.

The bridge crew actors will have lost a steady gig, but several have other more significant roles outside Discovery.

Who, specifically, is celebrating people losing their jobs? Please be factual with links or references to comments.

Hey the naysayers finally got something right…. five years later!

Sorry that was a layup! Quite honestly after the story the other day about programming cuts, this is not a massive surprise. I do feel for the cast and crew who didnt get a chance to say goodbye on set.

IMHO, Discovery will be seen by many as a failed experiment that sllowly (glacially) improved and really took the whole idea of “Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations” to heart. I am really looking forward to S5 and hopefully it will improve to the level of the rest of the franchise.

No, maybe it wasnt targeted to Trek legacy fans like myself and sooner or later some form of the franchise may have eventually appeared – but there is no doubt that we can thank Discovery for spawning SNW, Picard, LDs and Prodigy.

If that is their lasting legacy, so be it, and it is something they should be proud of. That said, let’s hope S5 can change that.

Genuinely sad for the fans of this show.

Just recently there were so many people taking to the comments section here saying that DISC season 5 would be released after PIC, instead of SNW, to take advantage of the buzz as it was Trek’s most successful show, with the highest ratings, and was the most important current Trek show for Paramount as it expanded the market for the entire franchise etc. etc.

Although I never agreed with any of this, they were 100% supportive of the show they loved and believed in it wholeheartedly.

I watched every episode, and cannot say that I ever grew to like it. BUT I did enjoy the technical aspects of the show which I thought were incredible for any show, Trek or otherwise. I thought in terms of production values, and particularly when it came to the visual effects and prosthetics, the show brought Trek into an entirely new space, visually. We’ve never seen Trek look better.

And just a reminder to all the bashers having their field day with this; if it were not for Discovery we would not be enjoying this new golden era of Trek on the small screen. We would not have PIC, SNW, LD or my favourite PROD, so I am grateful for the show, despite it not resonating with me, and am thankful for it’s important role in reigniting the franchise.

Oddly enough my 75yr old father, an OG Trek fan from the ’60s, absolutely adores the show, more than SNW or PIC. He’s very bummed out. I know a lot of people who watch and enjoy it beyond him, too, it’s just the trolls on sites like this that pretend nobody is watching and it’s the worst thing ever and deserves to be thrown away.

Sorry for your dad! And for the other fans, it’s never nice seeing a show you love come to an end. I’m still sad about Netflix axing GLOW because of the onset of the pandemic, even though they had begun filming their fourth season. A completed first episode exists out there somewhere in the ether….never to see the light of day it seems.

It’s nice to hear they will be doing some additional filming to the season so that DIS doesn’t just end abruptly the way TOS did. This isn’t just your run of the mill streaming show after all, it’s Star Trek.

How insulting to the cast, crew, and fans of the series that they aren’t filming additional episodes to wrap things up—they’re only filming bits and pieces here and there to graft onto what’s already been filmed? Wow.

I suppose that we should be grateful that they’re even doing that, but this sounds cheap and piecemeal. Unless expertly and artfully executed, this has the potential to harm the legacy of the series. (Shades of “These Are the Voyages”, anyone?)

I don’t know that I’d call it “insulting”. It’s a bad deal for the cast and crew, but shows get canceled all the time. That’s showbiz. P+ is doing this to save money, so of course they’re not going to shoot additional episodes. They’re pulling the plug and reshoots are all they want to pay for. At least they’re getting that.

This is the reality of most shows that get prematurely cancelled. If you think that’s bad, watch the ending of Castle lol. And that was a HUGE show that went for seven seasons. They thought there would be another season, it got cancelled instead and the producers had to make do with probably the most bizarre ending to a long running TV show ever. I have never seen a single episode of that show but I did watch the ending on YouTube the way fans and the media went on about it at the time and yeah it could be much worse lol.

An amusing story about show that believed they were getting cancelled so they made a final episode. It was a comedy and in that final episode the hero tried to disarm a bomb and failed. Everyone was killed. Then in the summer a late decision was made to pick up the show! Wonder if any old timers know what show I’m talking about…

Sure do.

I do not know lol. What is it???

That’s hilarious though.


Sledge Hammer.

The next season began with a card that read “This season of Sledge Hammer takes place 3 years before last season.”

OMG, I used to watch that show but I was very young at the time I forgot all of that. Thanks though, that is funny and almost classic Sledge Hammer.

Yep. And season two was not very good, either, IMO.

If you’re an actor in a series, unexpected cancellations are a part of the job. It’s not an insult, it’s just how the business works.

Also,additional shooting to wrap up story threads is uncommon. Paramount could have just pulled the plug without wrapping up the series.

“How insulting to the cast, crew, and fans of the series that they aren’t filming additional episodes to wrap things up—they’re only filming bits and pieces here and there to graft onto what’s already been filmed? Wow.”

I never understand it when fans act entitled like this. There is nothing insulting about the show’s cancelation. It’s a business decision, not personal, and the studio doesn’t owe you anything.

I called ii! ;D

I been saying it for awhile now if they are really talking about cutting more expensive shows than Discovery was the most obvious one to go first being five seasons in and probably being the most expensive show compared to the others. None of this is a shock especially if they really are belt tightening.

Some will be sad over the news, others will be the opposite lol. I’m pretty ambivalent about it, Discovery has just not been a very good show. Hopefully it will go out with a bang!

I’m sure your mother is very proud! Kudos!

Dude sometimes you are great to talk to, other times not so much. Relax and stop being so defensive about everything.

As I said none of this should even be a shock. Again if what people were saying was true and that they were trying to reduce budgets then Discovery was clearly going to be first on the chopping block. I said this months ago, it was very obvious to me at least. I even said most streaming shows rarely go beyond five seasons anyway although it sounds like they were surprised by the news if they are filming a new ending for the season.

But yes, we didn’t know if that was true and I, like you, was hoping this would be much ado about nothing and they all got renewed as I said multiple times. Well unfortunately it was much ado about something lol. Some people were convinced Discovery was going to go 7 seasons or even more but that was probably never really in the cards. I did think it would probably get one last season to go out big and wrap it up in a meaningful way.

And they probably did too.

I have nothing to be defensive about, I hate Discovery. I just don’t get why you’re so proud of calling it. Like you seem really proud of that. Odd.

Because I rarely get things right here lol. I admit I’m more wrong than right most of the time, so it surprising to be sooooo right this time. And sure, I could’ve been wrong, it could’ve been SNW that went first or something. This was just ‘obvious’ to me I guess IF any show was going to be cancelled. And I could still be wrong on the reasons. We’re all assuming it’s due to finances but it could certainly be something completely different.

I actually think it’s very possible — if not likely — that the success of Picard and SNW are playing a role.

Discovery was a big hit for them for several seasons, but with Picard S2 and SNW S1 both doing big numbers, they’re seeing where they should be putting their focus. Ie: why continue a series with 1.5M viewers, when shows with 4M viewers are out there?

I would not be at all surprised if viewership figures for Picard S3 actually put the nail in the coffin. It’s just common sense for allocation of resources.

Obviously that could all be possible. Unlike some people, I don’t treat my conjecture as fact and I don’t pretend to know what any of these shows are doing since we’re really all in the dark. That’s why some have huge eggs on their faces right now. My guess was an ‘educated’ guess but sill just a guess, IDK anything lol. But if what you say is true, sure, it could be that Picard and SNW are bigger hits and that’s where you’re going to funnel the money if Discovery is lagging behind those two and only getting more expensive on top of it.

I think Picard season 3, at least in terms of fandom, is a huge hit right now, but of course we been down this transwarp tunnel several times with this show lol. But if you and others been saying future episodes only gets stronger as it goes, it’s going to generate in the ratings and social media. The huge reveal in episode 3 has made even more people excited about it.

This is the kind of Star Trek many fans wanted again for a long long time and if the quality keeps up, then maybe we will see future shows going that direction. That’s assuming Paramount doesn’t just dump Star Trek completely and make 5 more Yellowstone spin off shows instead.

Lol, just hilarious!!!

And I still called it months ago! ;D

You were right! I was wrong! :-)

(See how I just admit that instead of typing a 1000 word defensive, convoluted essay that is rather meaningless … that’s part of why you and I can’t get along here – because you will never concede a significant point ever in our discussions.)


Short enough? ;)

Discovery itself I am not sad at all about. but I am very worried about what this means for the franchise as a whole. I mean this is coming 24 hours after Chris Pine’s ominous “cursed” Trek Franchise statements.

I am too actually. It may not stop with Discovery obviously. They could ALL be on the block, we just don’t know. But I think since Discovery is cancelled first and with Picard already leaving, then the other three shows may be safe for now. We just have to cross our fingers. I still think the animated shows will be fine personally but yeah who knows?

I don’t want to cause any major doom and gloom but I remembered when the first Marvel show was cancelled by Netflix. I think it was Iron Fist and a lot of people acted how this is being treated, ‘too bad, but not a big shock or loss’. And then Luke Cage got it and then people started to wonder what is going on? And then came Daredevil which was really the biggest moment everyone knew it was the end lol. Maybe it will just be Discovery and I’m hoping that will be the case.

I remember the Netflix Marvel shows too. The one difference there is that Marvel is/was such a tortured shared IP among so many studios that internally if they wanted to bring characters in house, it was hard for companies like Netflix to keep them. ViacomCBS no longer has that issue since the merger.

Having said that, I think the remaining 3 shows are safe for now. At the very least Prodigy and SNW are. Cartoons are obviously much cheaper and SNW is way too critically acclaimed after only 1 season to just off now for whatever reason. But I am so not holding my breath for any new live action Trek shows moving forward.

Moving forward IMHO any money P+ has is going to go to the Yellowstone shows. The IP is way more popular (currently) and minus the A listers behind them they have to be way cheaper to make.

Oh yeah it was for different reasons but the result was the same regardless. And of course now they all have a new life on D+ with the new DD show and supposedly some of the other characters from those shows will appear on it as well, so it kind of worked out, at least for DD.

Yeah I think the other three shows are safe as well. I’ve always said I could see the animated shows and SNW surviving both being newer and cheaper so let’s hope so.

*fingers crossed* I do like the 3 remaining shows.

For sure. Those three are my favorites with Prodigy topping them all…at least at the moment.

You mean that crappy-looking cowboy show? Do people watch that?

I mean the Kevin Costner show which doesn’t even air on P+ is so popular it’s one of the highest rated shows on actual TV and they got Harrison ford and Hellen Mirren for the P+ spin off.

I JUST watched the first episode of Yellowstone a few days ago. Yeah, I liked it. Not amazed by it or anything but definitely a solid premiere. I’m going to at least finish the first season and then decide if it’s worth watching more after that.

But Paramount is clearly in the Taylor Sheridan business. these days. His shows are becoming the new face of Paramount+, as sad as that is to us Trek fans. I think we’re no longer the golden boys on that service.

It is def an enjoyable show. I tbh don’t get the immense love it gets but yeah it is fun for all the drama it brings.

It’s crazy they are cancelling Trek for a western series (Yellowstone and spin offs) when Trek gives you the chance to do a Western unattached to the dogma (you can have a real range war and have it decide the fate of the whole solar system). Politics, do whatever you want post WW3.
Maybe it’s time to reboot Star Trek… do it it as something different but without worrying about getting sued for using alien elves (Vulcans).

Reminds me a little of what happened on UPN. Voyager was the flagship for its run, but the network could never capitalize on it, and eventually WWE Smackdown! became their highest rated show from 1999 onwards. After Enterprise started to fade, the network’s target demos had shifted so much that Star Trek had nothing more than a niche in the lineup.

Certainly true. In fact UPN entire demographic had changed by then. When it started, it was clearly trying to be a more high concept science fiction based network to keep the Star Trek audience around beyond Voyager. They had a lot of sci fi shows running to complement it with shows like Seven Days, Nowhere Man, Legend, Deadly Games, etc.

But by the time Voyager had ended, most of those shows were gone too or didn’t last longer than a season. By then not only did wrestling show up but the network shifted to a lot of urban black sitcoms and young adult dramas. It felt like a very different network it started out with. Another reason I’m not surprised Enterprise didn’t do better because as you said the network wasn’t attracting that kind of audience anymore.

Zero cohesion in their lineup, basically from 1996 onwards. They just picked up whatever they could and hoped it would stick. Like the WB, they found urban audiences were underserved by the big networks so that became a consistently reliable niche from the moment they aired Moesha.

Over the years I remember them making big plays for: sci fi fans (Deadly Games, Legend, Nowhere Man), animated comedy fans (Dilbert, Home Movies) blue collar demos and men (Hitz, Smackdown, Shasta McNasty, The Beat), young adults/women (Veronica Mars, Top Model, Buffy, Roswell), and leaned harder into programming for African American demos (Girlfriends). And they passed on Malcolm in the Middle!

They did try a number of times to try to capitalize on the Star Trek audience – it was bigger than anything else, it was loyal, and it was affluent. But I think only The Sentinel, 7 Days and Special Unit 2 ever stuck around for more than a season, and Nowhere Man was probably the only one of those shows to get decent reviews. The Twilight Zone and SU2 were the last ditch attempt to dovetail with a Star Trek show, then they gave up on Enterprise.

I definitely had to look some of this up, but I do remember how surreal it was to have to be aware of the rest of the UPN lineup each year, and how it almost always had zero flow from night to night. To this day, you know how a CBS, ABC or NBC show could fit in their lineup. How could UPN ever reconcile and cross promote Malcolm and Eddie, The Love Boat: The Next Wave, WWE Smackdown!, Home Movies, and Star Trek: Voyager? No wonder we got tepid crossovers like The Rock on Voyager, a bored as hell Golden Brooks on Enterprise, and the ultimate WTF idea: Homeboys in Outer Space co-starring none other than James Doohan? What a mess of a network. Their inability to get their S together saved Voyager and Enterprise from needing better ratings, but this also turned into an albatross when they could build things out successfully.

Yeah after this rundown, it really does bring back what a mess UPN was lol. Of course, just like All Access and Discovery, Voyager was really the only show I watched consistently on that network. But I did try to watch other shows at the time like Legend (because ‘Q’ was in that lol) and The Watcher but most of these shows came and went and I don’t even remember if I got to the last episode.

The only show I can remember outside of Voyager I watched from beginning to end was Nowhere Man. That’s literally the only other show I was glued to every week and it was cancelled after the first season. There were other shows I watched here and there but UPN just didn’t have a lot of consistent shows on. I do remember Moesha being a big hit in my household (we’re black and the show took place at the real high school one of my cousins was attending at the time). It was actually a quality show, especially for black audiences but I never watched it beyond a few episodes. But I would say that’s the only show everyone else at least watched occasionally along with The Parkers, which was a spin off of that.

But I was becoming less interested in sitcoms in general (which it had a ton of thanks to Moesha), never watched more than an hour of wrestling in my whole life and all the later dramas you cited like Veronica Mars, etc did even less for me. By the time Voyager ended I don’t think I was watching a single other show on that network. Star Trek was the only ‘must see’ for 11 years when you include Enterprise and I stopped watching that after its first year.

Oh and I’m sure you heard the now infamous story of how the UPN executives wanted Berman to come up with a way to showcase boy bands every week on Enterprise. Looking at what became of that network’s line up, it completely make sense now lol.

Far far more than Star Trek, myself included. As much as it pains me to admit it, Star Trek is quite niche.

I thought cowboys were pretty niche too these days. I know westerns were popular a long time ago, but I didn’t think they still really had any fans. Shows what I know, I guess.

1883 was spectacular. 1923 is pretty darn good too.

Yeah, I hate to break it to everyone, but Trek has always been niche, outside of TNG, arguably.

In 1997, Voyager barely cracked the top 150 shows with just 3.9M viewers in an era when 8M wasn’t considered all that impressive.

Voyager was also on one of the lowest watched networks with UPN. Not everyone could even get the network depending where they lived at the time, so it’s a bit different. If a Star Trek show was on CBS or NBC at that time and only pulled in 4 million viewers, it would’ve been cancelled long ago. But on UPN, it was one of its biggest stars.

Fun fact, Voyager was the second longest running show on that network! Girlfriends beat it by a season. And technically that show only lasted six seasons on UPN, but went another two on CW. So technically Voyager was still the longest, but it says a lot, for better or for worst.

But yeah I’m not arguing with you either, as much as we all eat, sleep and bleed Star Trek here it is a niche fandom compared to the big boys, we have to be honest with ourselves. That’s why the Kelvin movies failed and we’ll probably never see a show on a network again. Prodigy is the exception, but that’s because it’s probably suuuuuuper cheap to make and the point was to gain viewers new to Star Trek, so it makes sense to put it on the network where 100% of those potential viewers are. But we have no idea how well it’s doing.

And the other shows are really for old fans and while it’s enough of us to sustain it on a streaming site,they are probably realizing it’s not enough to sustain it all year either. I won’t be shocked if we just have 2 or 3 shows running in 2024 now.

To be fair to VOY tho, it was the first Network Trek show since TOS and UPN didn’t really have a big enough footprint to give it any kind of meaningful ratings.

All Access was basically the UPN of streaming lol, so Trek is still on the lower end of quality media. But I guess Paramount+ is the CW of streaming sites? So that’s progress at least.

I’ve no doubt 1923 and 1883 and maybe Halo and Tulsa King outrated most, if not all the Trek shows, but the Parrot Analytics at least point to SNW and Picard doing boffo business. It’s frustrating to not have any concrete numbers anymore for how to gauge success. Nielsen ratings and box office numbers were once great indicators.

But Parrot Analytics also said Discovery was supposedly bringing in a lot of viewers as well, so I don’t know how much I trust that site in terms of real views.

And that’s the problem, we don’t have real data. I also been saying this forever now and why I never pretend to know how these shows are really doing. Yes we have indicators, but it doesn’t tell us a lot, the biggest is how much it’s stacking up to the competition.

Yeah Nielsen ratings are sorely missed. They do have it for streaming now, but for some reason Paramount opted not to use it for their shows, which is not a great sign lol.

But the shows are probably doing fine for Paramount+ at least. Discovery was probably always on burrowed time because as I had said many many many times the show was five seasons old anyway,and only getting more expensive so it probably would’ve been cancelled after its sixth season at the most. Sure if it still had a bigger audience, it could’ve gone longer but it would probably had needed a HUGE one to justify it making it to seven seasons and it clearly wasn’t there. But the fact it got to five seasons is still a big accomplishment for a streaming show.

And yeah, 1923 must be huge, because it’s the first time that service had officially stated the viewing numbers of a show after it premiered. We have not gotten that for a single Trek show yet. And they renewed it a month later.

Apparently someone does. There are reports it has been the most streamed show on P+ for a while now. I’m not one of them. I like westerns but this doesn’t feel to me like it will be that good. But then I tend to compare everything to Lonesome Dove and Unforgiven. So I should probably lower my expectations.

Franchises are franchises, they all need to be maintained, and Trek is still a cornerstone to Paramount.

Taylor Sheridan is big right now but they can’t hang their hat on his work anymore than Netflix can only rely on Ryan Murphy. Yellowstone skews older and is more for Americans than an international audience. And Yellowstone is not cheap at all. Season 1 of 1923 cost anywhere from $176 to $280 million, according to Sheridan. $80 million a season for the original Yellowstone offset by streaming rights going to Peacock. 1883 cost $100 million to make and it didn’t even have A-list movie stars in it. They are big spectacles that are pulling in subscribers and name talent, but it’s part of a diverse lineup that Trek is firmly a part of now.

Edit: For crying out loud, what got flagged here? “Peacock?!”

Oh yeah you definitely called it! 😀👍

I wanted Discovery to go first because it’s just awful but I have to admit I’m a little surprised. I thought they would just wait until after season 5 and then decide. I guess the writing been on the wall for awhile.

Again, some of us was just pointing out the obvious lol. How can you say in one breath they may cancel shows that are costing the most but then tell yourself they will not cancel the costliest ones lol. That just shows people being biased and not objective. I ALWAYS try to be objective when it comes to issue like this, exactly why I’m not remotely surprised why the Kelvin films are still DOA. I know as fans, we want to be more positive, but you have to be realistic too about this stuff. NONE of this is hard. I literally work in numbers, my job is to analyze and cut the stuff that is costing the most money or not bringing in enough money. It’s not always easy but that’s the job. Of course we don’t even know that’s why Discovery got the boot, it could be entirely different reasons.

But since this is what people been saying for months now and they are indeed ‘belt tightening’, well then Discovery would at least be considered first before anything else and it was. And sadly it may not be the last but hopefully it will be for awhile.

But yeah it sucks, no matter how you felt about the show personally it’s never fun to see one prematurely cancelled. It would’ve been nice they gave it one more season and announced that as the last as Picard was able to do and give its fans something more special.

Let’s just hope they won’t announce in a few months Riker and Troi will be making a special appearance on the show lol.

Lol we definitely don’t want that! 🤮

I don’t want any show cancelled but if one had to go this was at the top of my list. People complained about it constantly for being bad and I don’t buy it has a lot of new fans. Everyone who I talk to about all these shows are just old fans.

Discovery could’ve been falling in viewership for years now and it’s not a cheap show to make obviously. The show probably would’ve been cancelled by it’s third season if it was on a network.

But five seasons is decent but I hope the last season doesn’t suck like the others now. But knowing this show..


No, I don’t really believe that either. Again, I have said this many times, yes, probably SOME new viewers, but obviously not enough to sustain the show either. I’m guessing maybe 10% of people watching the show are new to Star Trek. And that’s a BIG maybe. ;)

And I also agree, this show could’ve been bleeding viewers for years. I mean look at this site, there are people here who has said they given up watching the show in seasons 2 and 3. I’m looking at the reactions from people in other boards and many are saying they tuned out long ago. I don’t think it’s large majority or anything but I bet the show has really fallen in the last two seasons as A. people has only complained more about it and B. there are just more options now. When it was just Discovery, of course you’re going to bring a lot more eyeballs when you’re the only show in the quadrant. Now today it’s very different.

So no, I never believed the show was some major market grower and all that nonsense. It was already probably at the end even before they cancelled it, maybe eeked out one more season but it was already near the end, so none of it is surprising, certainly not to me.

And yeah five seasons is a long time in the streaming world. I can’t think of a streaming show that has made it to a full decade yet. And I wouldn’t be shocked if none of the other shows went longer than five seasons either.

5 seasons, eh? That sounds fine. I’ve watched seasons 1 to 3 of Discovery on Bluray and generally enjoyged them. Sonequa Martin Green’s Michael Burnham is a strong character. She brought the same strength to her Walkind Dead role and Discovery made the right call by casting her. Doug Jones’ Saru was a sympathetic character. I was ok the Stamets and Culber pair too. Tilly was a bit silly but fine. Book was a cool character but I just didn’t warm up to Indira at all.

I liked Discovery, but, despite its interesting stories and great sfx, I just didn’t connect with this show the way I did with TOS, TNG, and DS9 and Abrams Kelvin films. It was an interesting premise that was rooted in TOS and then went somewhere completely different thanks to time travel. I’m far more interested and excited by Picard and SNW. I actuallly think, in hindsight, that SNW should’ve been the first of the new crop of ST shows.

This show was very progressive in terms of its representation and Kurtzmann and Ms. Paradise are obviously happy with that. I liked the show, especially the first 2 seasons which I thought were awesome. Season 3 was interesting but left me a bit cold. I haven’t gotten season 4 yet. Is it worth seeing? I’m more interested in SNW since I am a huge TOS fan.

I suppose I’ll show my kids Discovery when they get a bit older. They’ve seen TOS and are enjoying seeing TNG with me now. Oh, and we’ve been watching ST: Prodigy which is ok.

5 seasons of an expensive streaming show seems like a good run to me, so mission accomplished.

Even though I think the show royally sucked 5 seasons is a decent run. 👍

Remember no DIS we’d have no Pike, Number One or Spock. Plus they did the bridge colouring and the blue phasers better then SNW!

Oh, yeah, I’m definitely grateful to Discovery for returning to the original TOS era and the Enterprise. I just hope it’s all handled well on SNW. I saw the first episode on Youtube and thought it was just perfection. I also saw a bit of the new Kirk and, well, I hope it’s better in the next season. I love Chris Pine’s Kirk in the Abrams films. They definitely got the right guy there but Paul Wesley’s portrayal in the little bit I’ve seen just didn’t connect with me. Hopefully, he’ll work out better in Season 2. Ethan Peck’s Spock is right on though! He doesn’t look as much like Nimoy as Zachary Quinto, who’s also excellent as Spock, but he does have the character down. It’s really hard to recast these iconic characters.

It was my least favorite of the “new” generation of shows. I think it was flawed from the start with many creative and visually controversial choices, which can probably be blamed on Fuller, who seemed to want to reimagine Star Trek more than honor what came before. But I give it credit for listening to fan feedback, trying to reinvent itself on multiple occasions, and paving the way for the better “new” series that followed. I hope the last season sends off the show in style and in a way that honors the cast and crew for pioneering a new generation of Star Trek on television.

Exactly! For all my issues with this show I can’t say they didn’t listen to the feedback and tried to make a better show out of it. I still think it’s a mixed result but they basically rebooted the show multiple times to try and make it work and I still think putting it in the 32nd century was the best idea even if I think the show runner was awful. I won’t put the blame on her for being cancelled or anything since it was clearly a financial decision (well most are lol). But it gave us a new era of Star Trek and I will be grateful for that alone and got us MUCH better shows IMO.

It sounds like season five is going to be yet another reboot of the show, hopefully this will be a great final season.

I think Dis did everyone a service showing the 32nd century is bland unless you reboot everything. Even the magic tech (free power, detachable nacelles) will equal lame as it becomes too reliable and the galaxy too explored. Oh no “another Dominion”, “another V’ger” but our ships fire 10000 quantum torpedoes and have insane shielding this time!
There is a reason why Yellowstone is doing well and it isn’t because they have perfect people with perfect ranging tech in a peaceful future.

You know Yellowstone is not a science fiction show, right?

While I was a huge fan at the beginning, it slowly lost me. I’m glad that it has its fans, though, and hope the finale is a satisfying one for them. Season 5 finished filming a long time ago, and I’m not sure they knew it was going to be the end back then.

I’m really sad about this, because I love Discovery and will very much miss it. And to all the naysayers, let’s be honest — a 65-episode run on a streaming service in 2023 is bloody incredible. That’s a very long run in this day and age.

I hope they tie in Calypso

Oh yeah! 😯 If they don’t, shame on them!

It’d almost be as if they didn’t know what they were doing this whole time… 🫣

Well, that sucks. I’m going to miss Discovery.

I’m kind of relieved.


Definitely! 😀👍

It’s funny I been waiting for this to come several seasons now for being an awful show! ,🤣🙄😡

But now that it did I’m kinda apathetic to it. I was hoping it just get better but I gave up on that awhile ago after the dreadful season 4. I’m not going to gloat because other shows I actually like SNW or Prodigy could be next.

But I don’t think many tears will be shed over it. Discovery has it’s moments like every show but it’s been mostly awful for me and won’t miss it. But I do feel bad for the fans who liked it.

Peace out Discovery! ✌️