After teasing the project for years, Paramount+ has finally announced they will be producing Star Trek: Section 31, a TV movie starring Academy Award winner Michelle Yeoh, reprising her role as (Mirror) Emperor Philippa Georgiou from Star Trek: Discovery.
Star Trek: Section 31
Paramount+ is describing Star Trek: Section 31 as a “special original movie event.” Production is set to start later this year. Here is a brief synopsis
In Star Trek: Section 31, Emperor Philippa Georgiou, joins a secret division of Starfleet tasked with protecting the United Federation of Planets and faces the sins of her past.
Michelle Yeoh said in a statement:
I’m beyond thrilled to return to my ‘Star Trek’ family and to the role I’ve loved for so long. Section 31 has been near and dear to my heart since I began the journey of playing Philippa all the way back when this new golden age of ‘Star Trek’ launched. To see her finally get her moment is a dream come true in a year that’s shown me the incredible power of never giving up on your dreams. We can’t wait to share what’s in store for you, and until then: live long and prosper (unless Emperor Georgiou decrees otherwise)!
Star Trek: Section 31 is written by Craig Sweeny who was a writer and consulting producer for the first season of Discovery and more recently was the creator of the CBS drama The Code and executive producer of the CW’s 4400 reboot series. The film will be directed by Discovery producer/director Olatunde Osunsanmi. It is executive produced by Alex Kurtzman, Craig Sweeny, Aaron Baiers, Olatunde Osunsanmi, Frank Siracusa, John Weber, Rod Roddenberry, Trevor Roth and Michelle Yeoh.
CBS first announced plans for a Michelle Yeoh-lead Section 31 project back in 2019, originally envisioned as a series. In a statement, executive producer Alex Kurtzman said:
All the way back in 2017, before the first season of Star Trek: Discovery had even aired, Michelle had the idea to do a spin-off for her character, Philippa Georgiou. She broke new ground as one of the first two women on screen in the pilot to usher in a new age of ‘Trek,’ and now, six years later, Star Trek: Section 31 finally arrives on the heels of her latest groundbreaking win. Everyone on Team ‘Trek’ couldn’t be more thrilled to have our legendary friend return home to us as we expand our storytelling into new and uncharted corners of the Trekverse. Long live Emperor Georgiou; long live Michelle Yeoh!
Star Trek: Section 31 will be the streaming service’s first original Star Trek movie. In the statement, Domenic DiMeglio, chief marketing officer and head of data at Paramount Streaming, said:
We’re thrilled that Star Trek: Section 31 will be the next title in our ‘Star Trek’ universe. Michelle Yeoh is an incomparable talent – she brought Emperor Georgiou to life in such an incredibly fun and nuanced way that the character immediately became a fan favorite. We’re so thrilled to welcome Michelle back to the ‘Star Trek’ and Paramount+ family and can’t wait for fans to see what this special movie event has in store.
Star Trek: Section 31 is being produced by CBS Studios in association with Secret Hideout and Roddenberry Entertainment. CBS Studios president David Stapf said in a statement:
For years, we’ve been looking forward to Michelle Yeoh one day returning to ‘Star Trek.’ Her powerful performance as Captain and Emperor Georgiou was a pivotal moment for the return of the franchise, and her portrayal resonated with fans around the world in a multitude of ways. We couldn’t be prouder to join forces with Michelle once again as we continue to explore the ‘Star Trek’ universe, celebrate its legacy and chart a course for the future of the franchise.
There is currently no release date for Star Trek: Section 31, nor are there any details on who beyond Michelle Yeoh will be appearing in the film. Production is set to start later this year.
Paramount+ has also recently announced Star Trek: Discovery will wrap up with a fifth and final season, debuting in early 2024. They have also recently renewed Star Trek: Strange New Worlds and the animated series Lower Decks for additional seasons. And most recently, they announced the new series Star Trek: Starfleet Academy, set to go into production in early 2024.
The long road to Section 31
Michelle Yeoh first appeared in the series premiere of Star Trek: Discovery as Captain Philippa Georgiou of the USS Shenzhou, a mentor to the series focal character, Michael Burnham. Captain Georgiou died in episode 2; however, Yeoh returned later in the season to play her Mirror Universe counterpart, Terran Emperor Georgiou. Mirror Georgiou returned to the prime universe with the crew of the USS Discovery and became a recurring character through season 2 as an operative of Starfleet’s black ops Section 31 intelligence division. Georgiou also joined the crew as they jumped into the 32nd century in season 3, and eventually exited the show through The Guardian of Forever with an arc that was designed to set up a Section 31 show for her.
Development on a Section 31 series starring Yeoh was first announced back in 2019, ahead of the release of the second season of Discovery. Since then, Alex Kurtzman and executives from Paramount have routinely talked about work being done for the series, often teasing that an official announcement was right around the corner. Yeoh herself has often mentioned a desire to return to the character even as her profile has risen over the years, reaching a new peak last month when she won a Best Actress Oscar for Everything Everywhere All at Once. It’s possible her new higher profile and busier schedule led to the project transitioning from a series into a TV movie.
Keep up with news for the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
YES! I am absolutely on board a TV MOVIE! I wouldn’t have been interested in a long-running TV show on that topic but a movie is the perfect step for this content. We finally get some sort of movie again, with a fresh concept. I’m happy about Trek’s first made-for-TV movie ever and I’m happy this isn’t a regular show…
Frankly, steaming movies are what the franchise needs to expand and diversify the content without a huge commitment.
And with Yeoh bigger than ever, a series was going to be tough to schedule. Nothing to say it can’t get sequels, either. This and Academy are two of the most important new initiatives because they will bring in new fans.
also helps with paramount trying to curb expenses.
trek has been good at diversity of styles and formats… we’ve had live action serialized, live action episodic, animated… adult and kids… plus the short treks… and all different time periods… i like they keep changing things up. i assume if it does well it will be a series of movies based on her schedule and not just a one off.
It’s a great tester, if it works great, considerations for expansion to serialised TV. If it doesn’t, then, well, it exists as its own product. Should be the way of Trek going forward.
I’m just happy Paramount is finally doing TV movies. And most of us suspected this could end up being what they did with Section 31 given Yeoh’s schedule and many fans wasn’t into the idea of a full on TV show. They knew where the wind was blowing. But I’m super happy to see Star Trek expanding, both in universe and formats!
Also, it makes total sense to start off with a prestige event with an Oscar winner.
With Yeoh in the principal role, there is no way to spin these as in any way less in status than a long term show or limited series.
I think a TV movie is a great compromise and it gives it status at the same time with an Oscar winner as you said. Now I’m hoping we get our wish and it’s a time travel/multiverse premise. That would be sooooo much fun and being only two hours could give it a strong budget to go crazy! :)
The announcement is getting profile on mass media places like CNN.
This could be huge.
Oh yeah, not surprised. It’s still Star Trek and Yeoh is a hot name right now. In fact, I remember watching CNN where they announced she was going to be on Discovery lol.
This is why it was so laughable when people said S31 was definitely dead after she won the award. I think it was you who rightly pointed out how the project was HER idea. So if anything, it made it MORE likely because suddenly Paramount would see just how valuable the project could be.
Sure, I did point that out and I even said I never believed the show was fully dead (although ironically it is now lol).
But I think this thing took a long time to get here and changed from a show to a movie for a lot of reasons but it doesn’t matter anymore. In the end, it’s just good they decided on something and especially since Yeoh still wanted to make it. And most people seem at least OK with the movie idea even if some will never accept it..
For me, it’s exciting something finally just got announced lol.
Well, over the last couple of years, the question was what would happen first, ST XIV or a feature length streamer. Now we know.
JJ Abrams (apparently) still has that first look agreement with Paramount. It would be interesting to know if he took a pass on this, or if it only applies to theatrical productions? This is definitely me trying to read the tea leaves here, but if JJ wasn’t entitled to a look at this, it affirms that the path of least resistance to getting a movie made is not dealing with Abrams.
It’s crazy after nearly 7 years, this is the first announced movie lol. One, that will happen this time. ;)
Yeah it’s not in the theaters but as I and others been saying, the movie’s future are most likely on Paramount+ anyway. I always thought they were trying to do another Kelvin movie was basically just a reason to get more content for P+.
And now I honestly thinks this could open up to a Kelvin movie happening on P+ as well since it seems nearly impossible to get one in the theaters. I have no idea how that would work with Abrams ‘contract’ but Disney basically turned their former movie ideas with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Boba Fett into D+ miniseries. So the possibilities are wide open if someone wants to do something bad enough.
I’m wondering if that’s why it’s being branded as an ‘event’ instead of as a direct-to-streaming movie.
I’ve been thinking that JJ Abrams ‘First Look’ agreement is something they’ve been working to get out of for some time.
People have been saying this guy contract was up 7 years ago and here we still are. I have to think it’s the Mission Impossible movies that keeps him around and Star Trek just continues to be part of that deal. I wish they could just cut him loose and then can go a different way completely with the next movie.
Yeah I know you’re happy. I’m happy it’s happening as well! I’m really curious what time period it will take place in but I’m hoping the 25th century. But open to anything.
Having it take place in the “lost years”, the period between Undiscovered Country and TNG would be interesting.
Yep, everyone seems to want to go to that period lol.
I know that Captain Shaw has been referred to by many as the most interesting new character in Star Trek for some time, but I believe Prime Georgiou holds that title. I was disappointed how the writers so quickly wrote her off and replaced her with a cartoonish villain. Michelle Yeoh deserves better writing and I hope the writers serve her well in the upcoming movie.
Admittedly, I haven’t watched Disco for some time so this may have already happened.
Shaw is a foil. He’s not a main character.
He and Seven are both foils that need someone to react to.
Together we may have a friction that works.
Yes! Yeoh is A list talent, internationally recognized. Building the brand, and it’ll be exploring some other aspect of Trek, something new for the viewers. Asides from the angry old white men who are outraged, this is a big win for the franchise.
No need to profile what you assume would be naysayers into being either old, white, angry or men. I’m most of those and looking forward to this, but I’m sure young, happy, black women can hate this too.
Phil needs to watch Trek a bit closer because im sure there were more than a few episodes that dealt with bigotry and intolerance.
Oh please straight white men are the intended audience of those episodes.
At this point, I bet the female audience is 50% or possibly more. Just anecdotally, Disco seems to have a big female audience.
I’m happy to see all sorts of ideas tried on streaming. We need more experiments like this. Try a movie, gauge the success, if merited, do a series.
I’m not a woman but go off. Yes women can be bigots too but sure defend men instead of acknowledging what Phil meant and fighting against people that will hate this movie for starring an Asian woman.
I just don’t really understand the point of trying to get out ahead of some sort of anti-woke backlash like that. These days there’s too much caveating of positive developments with provocative and smug statements that practically dare certain people to dig in and hate on something for an awful reason.
I just don’t think it’s productive or helpful. If that sort of backlash comes, then tackle it head-on, but there’s no need to invite it.
The narrative should be, “Beloved Oscar winner headlines Star Trek tv movie event” and celebration of that. No need to add, “Whether bigots like it or not!” within 5 minutes of it being announced!
You do realise that it is Asian men who are more likely to hate it? Almost every Asian man I know is a misogynist and have viewpoints that date back to the dark ages.
So Michelle Yeoh’s Hong Kong cinema superstardom happened despite Asian men not liking strong female characters unless they are young and hot?
Do you seriously think this is a good way to undermine what is already an argument designed to bait people?
“Old white men are sexist and racist!”
“Asian men are more sexist, so the joke’s on you!”
You do realize how foolish it is to apply tropes like that as an absolute, right?
A good test to see if a comment is inappropriate is to say the same thing but about different ethnicities. If it sounds off then it should send a warning about actually saying such a thing.
See but you’re old, angry and white on the left side, where the guys Phil are talking about are old, angry and white on the right side. (2 levels of commentary if you think about it) :-)
Left or right, they’re each their own brand of crazy when it’s extreme. I hover closer to the center, where reason prevails on both sides.
Correct, but I am disappointed that you missed the second meaning of my dual reference — its from TOS’s Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
No I got it, just didn’t have the patience (or wit) to figure out how to incorporate it in my answer.
Few in the Trek community cares she won an Oscar her character was awful and her performance not much better! Their would be far better characters and setting to base a film upon!
Don’t know what the angry white men comment is about! very strange
Are you white? Male? You don’t need to answer about anger…
What are you talking about?
Gee, I wonder too? So confusing!
They think only straight white guys can be angry about “diverse” casting but since I’m not a straight white guy, and I don’t like Discovery or Yeoh, by myself I invalidate their thesis.
I also confuse the Star Wars crowd by hating Rey as a character but loving Ahsoka, who checks even more diversity points. Some stuff is good and other stuff not so much.
Congrats — do you want a cookie?
Oh so you’re a guy who goes with the majority. Do those boots taste good at least?
… You need to add troll to that list for him
Or racist for him
Please stop the gatekeeping. You are not the Sheriff on this site.
But you are the only human being I have run into who wasn’t happy for Michelle Yeoh winning her Oscar. Shame on you!
Why would I be happy about someone I don’t know winning an award 😂
General Trelane / Reply to Phil / April 18, 2023 9:14 am
Few in the Trek community cares she won an Oscar her character was awful and her performance not much better!
You said it yourself. Hide behinds emoticons and not-so-clever-as-you-think gibberish if you must, but everyone can read your statement.
You have to KNOW her to be happy about it? Why is that?
And now he’s trying to weasel out of what he stated…lol
Well, she’s a role model to a lot of fans and represents the potential of a minority not only in America but also in her home country where ethnic Chinese people are not given equal status under the law compared to Malays. She’s worked very hard her entire career as she’s had to combat sexism, racism and agism, rising to the top of a male-dominated field as an action star, and literally breaking her back in the process. She has seen a relationship collapse due to her not being able to have children. She supports multiple wonderful charities. She’s been very open about how much her role in Everything Everywhere All at Once has meant to her when she’d been pigeonholed as stoic/wise/tough/serious/serene characters for most of her career. To be seen later in life as being capable of so much more is a wonderful thing. To win the most coveted award that Hollywood had never knowingly given to an Asian is an incredible thing.
So it wasn’t exactly hard for me to feel some happiness for her.
That is an extremely bizarre attitude. Why should anyone who doesn’t know her be happy for her? I’m not happy for my nephew winning some silly school award, so why should I care about some rich person in another country?
Jesus, you are not happy that your own nephew won a school award? WTF, what’s wrong with you?
I don’t need even know how to that pathetically sad statement?
I mean, that sort of sounds like a personal empathy problem more than a problem for everyone else to deal with…
I think Yeoh is overrated too, but Section 31 is an interesting premise. Let’s say a movie hits big but Yeoh is impossible to get because of other commitments. Well there will be other characters, right? Maybe they’ll merit a series in their own right.
I tend to agree about Yeoh. I think she is good if she gets roles that fit her. But she lacks the acting chops to be decent in whatever role comes her way. That’s not a knock. That is true of most actors. And evil-Georgeau just wasn’t a good role for her. Although to be fair the character was so weak and and so badly written I can’t think of one known actor who could have convincingly pulled it off.
Angry old white men, would not be outraged by a super hot, age appropriate action hero in Star Trek Phil. I think the only thing we are angry about is the condescension coming from guys (i guess I should not assume) like you.
My only gripe is that I wish it were a movie starring Captain Georgiou, a character I admired. I’m neither interested in Emperor Georgio nor her arc.
Redemption storys are always the standard. It’ll be fine.
Emperor Georgio is too much of an obvious and boring cliche for my tastes but generally I favor more “stuff” being tried out for Star Trek. If I like only 1/2 or 1/3 of it, fine. If there’s enough overall, then I’ll have more than enough to watch.
I can’t believe people are fans of Discovery but as long as I get what I want, it’s fine that they get what they want too.
If they’re straight or bisexual. I’m neither. I hope there’s a hot man in the cast too.
I’m indifferent to Georgio as a character but all it will take is one good character to latch onto. Hopefully more than one.
Trek needs trans people
Yeah, if you want the franchise banned in the majority of the world.
I guess you haven’t noticed there have been trans actors in all the new show.
What world are you talking about. It sure isn’t this one. #TransTrek
Most of Eastern Europe, Africa, Middle East, India, China ect.
Who is we? What’s the deal today with all of you people claiming you’re speaking for the rest of us here?
I mean I get Phil’s comment was provocative, but stop trying to hide behind a group on your opinions — just state your opinions as your own please, and from what I’m seeing they are not even close to being representative of Trek fandom anyway
100% agree Phil. Well said!
Phil, this is a moronic side swipe to an otherwise valid comment. (No i’m neither old, nor white before you ask).
Then you should know that his remark is not about you and go fight the people that it is about.
Fully agreed Phil, this is all great news! I’m just happy to see Trek expand into other formats more than anything.
Kudos on the decision to do TV movies, which I think is a very smart move. But Section 31 is not my cup of tea. That and the mirror universe are overused and one-dimensional, and this show will incorporate both. Meh. Hopefully, other movies yet to be announced will be better ideas.
Now that Georgiou is the main character, hopefully we will see some growth away from the caricature, which we started to see just before she went through the Guardian.
I had always thought the character was beyond redemption.
However, a few weeks ago, just before the premiere of “The Next Generation,” I rewatched a few episodes of STARGATE SG-1 (which I love), including one where the inhabitants of some planet put Teal’c on trial for his crimes as First Prime of Apophis. It occurred to me that one could have said the same — “beyond redemption” — about Teal’c. So I’m willing to give it a chance and see what they come up with.
Admittedly, Teal’c was written with nuance, not hissing, and nuance is not something NuTrek (particularly Discovery) excels at, but we’ll see.
I also like the fact that they’re doing this project as a movie, rather than a series or mini-series. If it’s repulsive or boring or whatever, file it under “bad Trek movies” after INSURRECTION, and move on. It won’t permanently taint the franchise. And if it’s good, it primes the pumps for more. Having Yeoh associated with Trek certainly helps the brand, even if I much preferred her as Captain Phillippa Georgiou. Low risk, high reward.
I see people from the MU differently. It’s in their nature. Just like in “Scorpion”. To them, redemption is moving from the values of the Prime back to the values of their own society. To us in the Prime that would be a tragedy.
Depending on where her character ended up when she emerged from the Guardian we could see some other characters who were involved with section 31 ie Bashir or even Trip
That would be amazing!
Now I’m warming up to the idea of a MU series, as an excuse to see some characters who have been off the screen for too long. Poor Trip, stuck on that terrible Enterprise show. Let’s see Connor Trineer again!
Here (again) is my S31 wish list of legacy character crossovers, across all eras and shows, assuming more time travel…
Enterprise: Trip, Reed and Archer
Discovery: Tyler, Emperor L’Rell, Kovic
TNG/DS9: Worf, Tom Riker
DS9: Bashir, Garak
Voyager: Tuvok, Naomi Wildman, Miral Paris
If Yeoh can kick off a series of S31 ‘events’, any and all could show up over time.
It would be amazing if Trip ended up in this movie but my bet is on Bashir.
I love both characters so I ‘d be happy with either. If they went with Trip then I’d hope for a post birth of the federation setting retconning TATV and If they go 25th century then I hope Worf and Raffi are featured along with Bashir.
Hey, haven’t seen you around here lately Cornthian7! Glad to see you! :)
And agreed about Trip, yeah just retcon TATV, everyone in their head already have. Even Frakes has said it should be retcon lol.
I’m actually a little disappointed Worf and Raffi wasn’t working with Section 31 in Picard. They could still be part of the movie but I did like the theory they were being made into S31 members on Picard to tie into the new show if it happened.
Thanks Tiger2! I’ve had a busy year so I’ve not been able to post as much as I’d like but I’m still always here lurking in the comments section. I must admit I also liked the idea that Worf and Raffi were being set up for the Yeoh series as I’d have been much more interested in seeing a show that’s based on Section 31 if it was set in the post TNG era. That being said I was never actually been against an Emporor Georgiou series, I much preferred the idea to The Starfleet Academy or Khan concepts.
At the end of the day though I’m just grateful for any new televised Star Trek so I’ll keep an open mind about the Academy show. It was always going to happen as there’s clearly a studio mandate that they also reach a younger audience and that’s understandable. I also think that an academy setting with a younger, more raw set of characters is better suited to the more emotional style they introduced in Discovery than it’s parent show ever was.
Malcolm Reed would make more sense.
Dude, how the hell did I forget Malcolm was actually a S31 member lol. The only main character who became one to this day. So yes I agree, Reed would make more sense. I think everyone thinks about Trip because he’s part of Section 31 in the novels.
Agreed, on all counts.
I don’t care for Section 31 or the mirror universe either, but in fairness, Section 31 has been something of a malleable concept, running the gamut from a garden-variety intelligence agency to conspiracy theory fodder. A lot depends on how they implement the concept.
I’m not wildly optimistic, but I’m also willing to see what they come up with before writing off the effort. As I’ve noted above, a redemption character arc worked exceedingly well for Teal’c on STARGATE SG-1, who indeed became a much-beloved character. Also, the one-and-done movie format makes this experiment a lot lower risk for “contaminating” the Trek franchise than a full-blown series. If it’s awful, forget it existed and move on.
Part of the problem is that the Trek writers’ room has about as much grasp of how the intelligence community works in the real world as it does how Customs and Border Protection works (i.e., zero). They need someone with roots in, or at least an appreciation for, that world, someone like Tom Clancy or Joe Weisberg (creator of THE AMERICANS and a former CIA officer) or David Wolstencraft (creator of MI-5). (I love the action-packed scene from CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER where Ryan grabs a ham sandwich and settles down for a night of library research with Jane’s All The World’s Aircraft.)
I once heard Wolstencraft speak at Chatham House, a London think tank, about whether screenwriters could contribute anything to real-world intelligence gathering. It was absolutely a fascinating panel.
As for the mirror universe, we don’t know how much they’ll revisit it, or in what context.
Myself, I’ve always imagined LaForge (and now Shaw) as the kinds of guys who are always savouring the latest version of 25th century Jane’s. They’re the engineering, maintenance, shipbuilding and procurement nerds. There’s got to more than the Federation News service to rely on. ;)
Actually, I think the CIA model is somewhat of the problem, and causes some of the confusion among writers to don’t put in the research. People like Clancy mix up signals intelligence, analysis, field networks and operations in a story in a way that those not familiar would see these as all part of the same small teams vs the reality of often quite separate organizations.
However, with so many academic histories of 20th century intelligence organizations coming out, there’s lots to be found in the public domain for those who are curious.
In this case though, we’re likely to get some kind of mix if Mission Impossible and Guardians of the Galaxy if The Hollywood Reporter has it right. Beloved and fun 20th century tropes refreshed more than any attempt at gritty intelligence realism.
Section 31 has a lot of potential as long as you agree with the DS9 approach to Star Trek: “it’s easy to be a saint in paradise.”
The Mirror Universe would be harder to turn into a good series, but even that’s possible someday.
I like it. Maybe will lead to other concepts for films that might not work for series or lead to a series if popular. Maybe a Klingon or Surak movie in the future.
For those looking for nostalgia, movies are the perfect spot for reunions like an Enterprise redux.
Absolutely, I think this is a much better idea than having a ship flying around in the 25th century looking for pretexts to visit legacy characters.
Worf is a Klingon. Just saying.
Yeah, that’s what is so exciting about it. If they are not sure a concept is strong enough to a full on show or they just don’t have the room or money to produce something long term, this is a great option. We could have things like an Enterprise reunion movie, a Janeway movie OR even a Kelvin TV movie if a feature film is just deemed impossible to get off the ground but want to use that cast and universe.
So many possibilities! :)
Honestly if there was a show that absolutely needed a “proper” sendoff it’s Enterprise. I’d rather see a feature film (or even a decently done TV movie since that seems to be more the case) than a full set of 10 episodes. At most a two part feature. The reason for this change of opinion is the drawn out season 3 of Picard. Which I just don’t see working that well and think it might have been better if all episodes came out at once.
Of course they would have to find a way to get around the death of Trip. But I actually don’t see that as a problem. One could just conveniently not count that holodeck stuff as historically accurate. I’m doubting there would be a large contingent of fans objecting to such a thing.
The next show in need of closure was Voyager. That series ended rather abruptly and felt like it needed some sort of coda. Unfortunately with the use of three of their characters elsewhere it’s now feeling like that ship has sailed. But I still think Enterprise is a possibility. A long shot but possible. Of course, we still have the Secret Hideout problem to overcome…
Definitely agree about Enterprise. Me and you have been on the same page and would like to see another season. But if that’s unrealistic a TV movie would be perfect. That is what is so great about this format now. And I think the first issue will be to bring Trip back.
As for Voyager, I don’t feel it needs real closure. And thanks to shows like Prodigy and Picard, we are getting filled in which I think is fine. And I have a feeling we will get a lot more in the second season of Prodigy.
I like the idea that they can try for different tones with movies or other ‘events.’
A few of us speculated about this a couple of years back on the TrekMovie general chat.
Pick a subgenre, and there’s likely a legacy character or characters who would do well. Mystery, buddy adventure, thriller all are possible in a contained, episodic 2 hour movie, comedy.
We even speculated (given Doug Jones’ love of them) about whether it would be possible to make a Hallmark-type Star Trek romance movie. It seems far fetched until you think of the potential audience for a story about Sarek and Amanda getting together…
The evil despot from a universe where fascism is cool and racism is a-ok is finally back to win our hearts then possibly eat them in the process.
Oh boy, I hope she brings her appetite!
You can just go hide under your bed when it airs or better yet, just don’t watch it. How ‘bout that?
That would be way too rational.
There was simply no reason for that vitriol.
There was simply no reason for his either.
Precisely. I get a lot of accusations of nastiness or jerkitude thrown my way, when i’m only responding in kind lol
Sometimes you’re responding in kind. Sometimes it seems your snark is gratuitous.
There was reason
I was waiting for a Trump metaphor there.
Yeah. I’m similarly skeptical and find the lionizing of Emperor Georgiou off putting. At least it’s just going to be a movie and not a full series.
Tend to agree. Thank goodness for small favors I guess.
Absolutely, mate. It’s an awful character and a disgrace to Star Trek. Section 31 are another Borg now, formerly ominous and impactful, now they’re overused and clichéd.
Just in time for the next presidential election, mind you! 🤣
Hush, little baby don’t say a word, Papa’s gonna buy you a mocking bird
And if that mocking bird don’t sing, Papa’s gonna buy you a diamond ring
And if that diamond ring is brass, Papa’s gonna buy you a looking glass
You’ll still be the sweetest little babe in town La, la, la, la, la, la
Hush, little baby don’t you cry…
I’m not attached at all to most of the Discovery era stuff but having Yeoh outwith Discovery is definitely a positive experiment for Trek. Let’s see what it brings.
LOL, but this is probably why trying to make it a full on show was questionable, it was always a very divisive idea in the fandom. A one off two hour movie is more digestible.
And who knows…you might like it! :)
Did you vote for the orange criminal?
You are the God Emperor of trolls.
It is more likely you did so yourself considering you have an admiration for mass murderers.
The whole section 31 idea is just not interesting enough for me out of all the possibilities for a Trek tv movie this is what they go with! Bizarre
Yeah so bizarre that they’d make a movie spearheaded by an Academy Award-winner and one of the most popular actors working in Hollywood at the moment. I can’t understand it.
A spin-off from a cancelled tv show when Picard season 3 is blowing everyone away! I yea your right makes perfect sense
I would think the fact that DSC is getting two spin-offs is pretty much solid proof that it wasn’t a failure lol keep living in your delusional little head, though, it’s funny.
Cancelled shows are often very successful!
I’m not a DSC fan here necessarily, though I did enjoy season 1, but you forgot to say that additionally to those two spin-offs, it was also responsible for the birth of SNW, and that’s not insignificant. Also, to all these people having apoplectic fits over Section 31, why don’t you wait until you see the show before criticizing it? We know less than nothing on it!
Great point. Between SNW, Academy, and now this, it’s clear it was a big success.
It spun off one good series anyway.
I couldn’t stand Disco but it did create SNW so for that reason, it isn’t a total failure.
I’d put money on the TNG gang getting a movie after season 3 wraps.
Hope it takes place in a retirement community
Ageism is a form of hate speech.
I think you need a nap.
Picard is a spinoff from a cancelled show. 🤷🏻♂️
No it’s not.
TNG wasn’t cancelled? The cast members were under contract for an eighth season and Paramount cancelled it.
They were already building the sets for Generations in season 7 so how could their be a season 8?
TOS was though. And arguably every single Trek thing since is a spinoff of that.
I agree that you could ague that if you went way general with the definition of spinoff. However, I think it’s more accurate to go with the core TV series that re-generated the franchise for new eras after significant pauses, and those series are:
TOS (Rodenberry era)
TNG (Berman era)
Discovery (Kurtzman era)
Very true. And a very good point. It’s just by the logic that cancelled shows fail and don’t get spinoffs, Trek as a franchise then shouldn’t exist.
Your not cancelled if they give you a movie it just means they renegotiated your contract!
Are you canceled then if you get two spin-offs? lol
LOL, I love it when these weirdly spiteful logic trains come back to bite some of these fans in the keyster.
If your not in them yes
It’s true, I am not the star of any Star Trek spin-off. It’s too bad, too because my life as a 6 year old with angry neighbors would make for one helluva story.
But you are then cancelled when your movie is so bad and loses so much money (Nemesis) that they discontinue your movie series prematurely.
Picard itself is a spinoff from a cancelled series/movie series. The last two movies in that series were dreadful, and the final one even lost money, so the long running series was then cancelled.
So by your own argument, Picard should have never proceeded.
This is not a zero-sum game; a one-off movie hardly precludes a continuation of 25th-century Star Trek after Picard.
<i>A spin-off from a cancelled tv show…</i>
The Jeffersons and Archie Bunker’s Place would like a word.
Yeah what a bonehead move from Paramount /s
How is she considered so popular? Her latest movie came 37th at the box office. It was beaten by Scream, Where the Crawdads Sing and The Black Phone – among many others.
No one I know has ever heard of her, which reflects the poor box office performance.
It’s less about Section 31 and Star Trek and more about Michelle Yeoh. She’s the hook. She doesn’t have to commit to a series and Paramount can promote a Michelle Yeoh project. It’s a one and done kind of deal.
I still think amongst the Trek community their would be far better options to set a tv movie! Oscar or not
Well, I’d suggest writing a hand-written letter to Paramount, i’m sure they’ll give your ideas due consideration.
I’d suggest you stop insulting me and grow up I’m entitled to my opinion as you are to yours
I’m sure if you graffiti that on a side of a truck you’ll get the praise you’re looking for.
But you make it so easy
At the very least, it is a start. Personally, I’d like to see a Sulu/Excelsior movie starring George Takei.
I think it would be best to have Takei playing Sulu in some way in this movie. I think it would also be perfect from the real world point of view of the franchise, to promote it in asian markets
That ship sailed 30 years ago.
I think I’ve been missing your Trek fan community staff meetings — can you please email me calendar invites for those?
It was intentional
This is the first comment of yours that I have enjoyed reading. :-)
If only I could say the same.
I’m not very interested in Yeoh but I’ll give the movie a chance anyway. Could be other characters in it I like better.
It will be a worth a watch and, hey, as a movie there’s limited commitment!
With a streaming platform to feed, they could try a lot of ideas. A movie is a good way to gauge reaction. If it sucks, then it won’t become a series (well ideally). Or, it sucks, but gets an audience anyway. Fine let them have their stuff, as long as I get mine.
Most of fandom seem really divided on a full on show. I would’ve watched it and gave it a chance but a TV movie is perfect. And maybe if enough people watch it, they will make sequels.
And a lot of people hate Georgiou but Yeoh is really popular. It makes sense.
I’m not a huge fan of Section 31 myself. Always felt it should just be some sort of black opps arm of Federation Intelligence or something. A clandestine organization that everyone seems to know about with no accountability to anyone or anything just doesn’t sit well with me. That said I suppose if done carefully there is a chance it might work for a TV movie. But the addition of evil-Georgeau is just a big no go for me. Her character was weak, badly written and a really bad fit of Yeoh.
Finally! I think a movie is the way to go for this. :)
Yes, yes, yes!!!
Also announced today is a GALAXY QUEST series coming to Paramount+.
For reals? Don’t toy with me
I’ll believe it when it airs. They make that claim every few years, and then it doesn’t happen.
Makes a lot of sense for Paramount+ tho. The fanbase is already gathered.
Saw that, I wonder if they’ll recast with new young actors but still keep the in-show conceit that the original cast exists and have cameos every so often. That leads to the Alan Rickman problem, that his absence will be obvious and galling but oh well.
They could simply recast Alan Rickman’s character. Lots of actors have played Batman or Spider-Man in the last 25 years but we can’t recast Alexander Dane? Rickman was terrific, but there are other terrific actors out there.
They said it’s “in development”, again.
True, but this seems a little higher profile than those other attempts. Could be another Star Trek 4 though.
At least at the moment, that isn’t confirmed.
It’s about time! I was hoping for a miniseries, but a movie is awesome too.
Yeah, I thought it was going to be a mini-series as well. I really didn’t think a full on show was happening at this point, but a mini-series seemed more ideal and do a six episode season or something.
But a movie is still good for people who at least wanted to see the character return. And it will trigger fans less who hate her lol. So a good compromise IMO.
Someone else brought it up, but if it’s a success, I could see it spawning a series where she is not a member of the main cast, just popping up for a couple of episodes a year.
We’re thinking along the same lines here.
Technically all these streamed shows being only 10 episodes long are essentially a mini-series. The only difference is each episode isn’t released daily. Which I think would actually work better.
I’m glad that it’s just a movie. Might serve as a pilot also. I don’t think it makes sense to take a deep dive into Section 31 — which is not a secret to anyone in the galaxy anymore and was only interesting the first time, but since they’re posing this as a one-off (for now,) I’m more inclined to watch and enjoy it.
If they were going with a humorous approach, I would want S31 to be all about wiping the memory of Section 31 from the minds of the whole quadrant to allow S31 to operate in secrecy again.
If they are going with a serious approach, I would want Georgiou to work to destroy S31 (having come around to the understanding that fascism and genocide are bad options) and seemly succeed, only to really drive them underground till DS9.
They already ruined the idea on Discovery, it was a reason I was against a TV show. But this works sooo much better. It will be more contained obviously and much easier to digest for fans who hated the idea of a 5 season show or something.
It really was never a “secret”; in ENT, Reed’s handler told Archer to read Section 31 of the Starfleet charter.
Michelle Yeoh is awesome!! Just wish had they known they had her, that they had kept Captain Georgiou alive. Now that being said I do like how the mirror Universe angle is opening up for some adventures I never would have thought possible (Mirror Universe Emperor working for Section 31?!?!). I hope that it is her and Paul Guilfoyle as the Guardian (loved him in CSI!!!!) saving the Universe together through multiple time lines with ethical grey zones everywhere.
I also assume double agent Ash Tyler will return.You’ve got a former evil emperor, a half good guy / half Klingon and the Guardian together… just think of the challenges you must be confronting if that is your team of choice! Everyone clearly will be expendable.
Considering they promised the actor a role in the spin-off, and wrote him out of DSC for that reason, it would so cruel to not include him.
Yeoh enjoyed being Captain Georgiou and what it meant to be in the franchise as a female Asian lead, but I get the sense that what sealed the deal for her was the ability to play against type and vamp as the Emperor. It’s just a shame the character wasn’t given much depth or an arc until the last minute.
I personally feel they thought they could afford Yeoh for the pilot and maybe a finale and were in shock when she wanted to hang around
Could very well be. The whole of season 2 and most of season 3 smacked of them not knowing how to use her.
I really liked Ash, one of the few elements from Disco that I did like. If he’s in the movie, I’m going to root for it to go to series.
I’m hoping for Ash and L’Rell. I loved both of those characters.
This was a big misstep from the beginning (as was killing Capt. Shaw).
It’s Trek’s biggest mistake since 2017, killing off the best new characters, from Landry to Georgiou to both versions of Lorca, to Hemmer, and now Shaw. Stupid stupid stupid trend.
Creating great characters so they can be fridged as a shortcut to character growth was dated when Josh Wheadon did it in Buffy.
Telling Gen-Xers and Millennials that it was ‘alway intended to be this character’s arc’ just doesn’t get the understanding reaction that the (seemingly condescending) explanations are intended buy.
This is fantastic. I´m so excited and happy they were able to finalize things with Michelle Yeoh.
Glad you’re happy Emily to have had something new with at least newer characters announced.
Yes I’ve been hoping they would go through with this. I was hoping they would make a show but I’ll taking a TV movie and hopefully if it does well perhaps a few more too.
Awesome! Hope they’ll do more with Michelle Yeoh if it’s succesful!
Okay this is VERY unexpected but most welcome indeed!! I am totally on board for a section 31 movie instead of a series. Hopefully this will be the first of many TV movies set in the Trek universe. This is something fans have been asking for years!
I think this is better than a series. I never thought there was enough to Section 31 or Empress Georgiou to justify a series. A movie can boil down a story to the best parts that would have been stretched across 10 episodes compounded with a lot of filler and make it work.
I still think one of the worst sins (of many) committed by Discovery in its first season was killing off Prime Universe Georgiou. I know it would have been a different show, but I would have loved to see Yeoh play a normal Starfleet captain dealing with problems, instead of hamming it up as the Mirror-Verse version.
<yawn> Won’t watch. She’s an excellent actor, I’m just not interested in the material.
Thanks for your input. Very valuable, really helps the discourse. I’m also not planning to watch the next season of NCIS: Whatever.
Oh horrors, people on a site devoted to opinions about Star Trek dare to have opinions about Star Trek.
Defenders of insipidy.
If you don’t want to watch, that’s completely understandable. BUT if the reviews are good, would you change your mind?
We all know he’s going to watch.
Yeah just like you said you wouldn’t watch Picard and SNW lol. Sorry dude, if you’re going to call someone out on it, it’s only fair you get called out too. ;)
And I heard others also on this board and other places claim they wouldn’t watch Lower Decks or Prodigy when those were announced and they did of course. Yeah, people say this stuff all the time but rarely follow through lol.
I never make any of these announcements. I know I’m going to watch it and watch it all. I really didn’t want a S31 show at all, but if they made it, I would’ve watched every episode…probably twice lol.
I never said that. Show me where I said that. I’ve seen every episode and movie in the Trek universe. I would never not watch a show. I even watched boring SNW.
LOL yeah I know dude…I know.
And this was when you went by a different name, I’ll just leave it at that.
I think that’s your problem. You’re talking to the wrong person. Glad we cleared that up.
LOL! Uh huh.
I haven’t watched most of season three of Lower Decks.
I watched the season premiere in the hopes that the slight uptick at the end of season 2 might continue; perhaps predictably, it was yet another nails-on-the-blackboard experience. And I watched the episode with Sonya Gomez, because Iiked her character back in TNG. I think that was it.
I wasn’t talking about you or anyone specifically. But I don’t think you will like season 3 much if you hated season 2 that much. BUT I will say at least watch the DS9 crossover episode “Hear All, Trust Nothing” if you haven’t yet. You may still hate it, but think for DS9 fans its worth a watch at least. And if want to gouge your eyes out by the middle of the episode, then just turn it off.
Yes, I may check that one out after Picard ends.
I have news… There are lot of fans I think like myself who are fans of Trek and will still watch whatever they put out even if it is garbage. It’s what fans do. They watch because they are hoping what made them fans to begin with will show up again one day. Even if they know it’s unlikely.
Great news! And I like that this concept is being limited to a standalone movie. Yeoh is a fantastic, loyal actor, and she knows what she’s doing.
This might work! I’m still not sold on a Section 31 story, but making it into a movie instead of a TV series will allow TPTB to tell a much tighter story, and really allow Yeoh to shine without dragging things out. Hopefully they won’t fall into the trap of making Section 31 the good guys (or even anti-heroes), because they are very much not the good guys.
I’ve never been a fan of the Mirror-Georgiou character, but if it’s just a standalone movie I’ll be tuning in. Good idea to make it a one-off.
If the movie’s a hit, it come become a series, regardless of whether they include Georgio, who is a one-note bore of a character.
You said it Danpaine, this is a great compromise. If they announced it was going to be a show, this board and every Star Trek site would be in chaos right now lol. But a one off TV movie actually sounds like a lot of fun and excited to see what they do with it.
Agreed. Not a fan of Section 31 and even less of a fan of MU-Georgeau. But if it is going to get done this one off is not a bad way to test to waters.
Thank goodness. I was having a real hard time imagining an S31 tv show, but I can handle a movie. I still don’t really care for the concept, but a movie is, I think, a much more appropriate medium.
Congratulations to the folks who want to see more Yeoh!
This is smart given they can place these on the calendar in such a way in between the series’s that pretty people pretty much will want to have the annual subscription — but they don’t have to spend on a couple more series’s to make that happen.
But of course now…Queue up the usual morons in bringing up their middle school level “Space Hitler” name calling on the character (which doesn’t even make historical sense as an analogy by the way)
Baby’s gotta drink his formula. “Wah, wah, Space Hitler, wah, wah.”. Lol
I’m curious, and I’m try to ask in as non-confrontational a way possible, what your objection to that analogy is.
Mirror Terran Empire is unapologetically fascist. That’s the point.
The Emperor is the head of a dictatorship, unquestionably genocidal, and, at least to start with, very happy being “evil.”
I’m just trying to map out what the objection to that term is. Speaking as a long time student of european history, it seems like not a terribly big stretch to me. What am I missing?
No worries — I appreciate the question, dude! I know I can come across a bit of an ass at sometimes (what you really got to watch out for here are the confrontational dudes who won’t admit they can be a-holes…lol) , but below here is my issue with this misapplied analogy — pasted from a previous post of mine.
What’s even funnier is how ignorant the “Space Hitler” moniker is. Whoever uses that term is kind of showing an admittedly lazy interest in history. Hitler started an evil empire that did horrible things, whereby Georgiou was just another in line of successive leaders within an evil regime that she was brought up into. She never created the evil. She simply inherited it and was brought up to be the next leader within that system.
That’s a huge difference, and it just makes the term Space Hitler inaccurate and silly. It was such a lazy, immature response which shows that the person doesn’t even understand basic history.
If we must have a silly nickname for that character, at least look at a successive Roman leader, say “Space Augustus”. That would be much more applicable and won’t show how ignorant the person is who uses the Space Hitler term
Regarding these comments of mine, imagine today if someone created a society with beheadings and with death sports (so creating this, like a Hitler) — that person would be prosecuted for war crimes. But, would we travel in a time machine to Mayan times and bring their lead back to stand trial and answer for these same crimes that occurred on his watch (so inheriting this, like a Georgiou)? Of course not.
No worries, here is an earlier post of mine where I covered this:
What’s even funnier is how ignorant the “Space Hitler” moniker is. Whoever uses that term is kind of showing an admittedly lazy interest in history. Hitler started an evil empire that did horrible things, whereby Giorgiou was just another in line of successive leaders within an evil regime that she was brought up into. She never created the evil.
That’s a huge difference, and it just makes the term Space Hitler inaccurate and silly. It was such a lazy, immature response which shows that the person doesn’t even understand basic history.
If we must have a silly nickname for that character, at least look at a successive Roman leader, say “Space Augustus”. That would be much more applicable and won’t show how ignorant the person is who uses the Space Hitler term
Both the Romans and Nazis were too self-disciplined to be perfect analogies for the MU. The MU has a lot of Space Pirates aspects, which is the fun element.
So, if I’m reading right, your contention is largely because Hitler was the first Führer, and Georgiou wasn’t the first Emperor?
Yeah, but it’s more than that. Hitler CREATED evil, whereas Georgiou just inherited and evil regime with a set of morals and practices that were evil, but which she was trained and brought up in. That’s a huge difference,
Think of it this way. Someone starts a group in today’s world that beheads people and does numerous violent crimes on people — that leader would be prosecuted and brought to justice for his evil doings, which he was responsible for in world where that is not acceptable — he created the evil in a world where that was not acceptable. Contrast this to taking a time machine back to a leader from the middle timeline of Mayan culture, bring their leader back to today, and try him for beheadings and war crimes — would that be fair and make sense to hold him responsible for that evil? Of course not — he inherited that evil, was trained for it, and which was culturally acceptable in that ancient empire. Again, a huge difference!
I can’t get overly worked up about this semantic debate, and if you prefer to call her “Space Idi Amin” (he was also accused of cannibalism) or “Space Putin” (“once a chekist, always a chekist”), then fair enough.
But it’s perhaps worth remembering that Hitler called his state the “third Reich” in an attempt to position himself as a successor to the Holy Roman Empire and the German Empire. Much of this is historiography more imagined than real — but then again, an imagined past is a common theme in nation-building, both the ethnonationalist sort and its more benign versions. And anti-semitism certainly pre-dated Hitler.
At any rate, the salient point seems to me that Georgiou was a perpetrator of genocide and that it is difficult to rehabilitate her, not which moniker we assign her.
I think its also important to remember that Georgiou had redeeming qualities. She was capable of growth and came to realize that her actions as emperor were wrong. Hitler, on the other hand, was an asshole right up to the end.
I like the theory that Mirror, Mirror was a “spinoff” of City on the Edge of Forever. In the MU, Edith Keeler survived and Earth was taken over by fascism which eventually led to the Terran Empire.
The parallels with fascism were obvious from the first. However, the MU is fascism if America went fascist, and being more powerful and larger than Germany, eventually took over the whole movement. Because there are aspects of the MU that aren’t very German-fascist, for instance: the terrible fashion sense. The lack of respect for authority.
Can you imagine historical Nazis killing superior officers and being rewarded with promotion???That would undermine the whole organization structure. It’s really more piratical than fascist but seems very American to me. Chaotic, individualistic, self-indulgent, egomaniacal.
Yes, pirates seem to be the best analogy overall. Totalitarian and fascist often blend together, but the point is taken.
I think “Space Hitler” is at least reasonable shorthand. Genocidal? Check. Racist? Check. Dictator? Check. Waged campaigns of extermination? Check.
I know there’s sometimes a histrionic take that calls every dictator a Nazi, but I’m still befuddled at why precisely the Terran Emperor doesn’t fit the mold.
I will say again, Hitler created evil in a world where that was not acceptable, whereas Georgiou was just Emperor #7 in a already set-up evil system, where her parents and the system she was in trained her to administer and evil government. HUGE DIFFERENCE !!!
Again, think of it this way. Someone starts a group in today’s world that beheads people and does numerous violent crimes on people — that leader would be prosecuted and brought to justice for his evil doings, which he was responsible for in world where that is not acceptable — he created the evil in a world where that was not acceptable. Contrast this to taking a time machine back to a leader from the middle timeline of Mayan culture, bring their leader back to today, and try him for beheadings and war crimes — would that be fair and make sense to hold him responsible for that evil? Of course not — he inherited that evil, was trained for it, and which was culturally acceptable in that ancient empire. Again, a huge difference.
So your “check the boxes” criteria for comparing someone to Hitler is simply ignorant of history, and as such, the Space Hitler analogy is a false analogy..
Claiming that Hitler created the evil that he did is a bit of a stretch, and ignores the rich history of antisemitism and awful things going on in the 20s and 30s and is, as you put it, simply ignorant of history. Sure he pushed for particular atrocities, but he wasn’t the genesis of the sentiment that manifested in the Reich’s widespread atrocities.
What it sounds like you’re getting at, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that because Georgiou comes from an “Evil” place where things that we consider evil are the norm, it’s not fitting to compare her to a person from our universe who did the same deeds that we consider to be evil.
I don’t think it’s an analogy because “they’re both bad people” but because they did specific, very similar things, for very similar reasons. Maybe Hitler isn’t the perfect historical figure to compare her to, but he is pretty close in terms of actions taken and motivations for them.
Fact: Hitler led and implemented the creation of evil empire
Fact: Georgiou was brought up and trained to be the latest emperor (in a long lined) in a long running empire.
If you don’t get that difference, I can’t help you. These are clearly significant different situations involving the application of evil, and who is responsible for that evil
It’s a bad analogy regardless of what your and my opinion of it is because it’s fails basic considerations of logic.
We can go on and discuss it further, but a bad analogy is a bad analogy no matter what you and I say about it. It easily fails logic when you look at history.
I think we’ve got a disagreement on what the application of logic is. That’s kind of one of the beautiful things about the field of history, you can make comparisons and argue for them.
I don’t deny that there’s a difference between being the “first” emperor and being the “latest emperor of an evil regime. What I’m saying is that that distinction isn’t really germane. At the very least it’s certainly not the most important part.
Basic logic here: if there’s something that has some traits, and another entity that has some of the same traits, you can see an overlap between the two. There’s a subset of traits that are shared. It doesn’t mean the two are exactly the same. It doesn’t mean the actions 1-to-1 map between the two. But they don’t have to. That’s how analogy works.
Looking at history shows so much similarity between them that, apart from one being in space and one being on Earth, the only practical difference is who “started” their respective empires. Basic logic. Basic history. How can you not see the similarities?
Hey, a question. It looks like this weeks articles are the first Trekmovie articles you have ever posted on? I was just wondering, is this your first time contributing here, or did you just change your name this week? The way you write your comments remind me of someone else who has posted regularly here?
Nope! Been me for a long while. But I’ve written like this since I was first in college 20 years ago
Weird, because a web search shows no other entries for you on Trekmovie? No worries though.
I think I started posting on things a few weeks back? I’m not a sock puppet for someone else.
Lol, the creator/originator of an empire of evil is completely different in regards to their responsibility for that evil than say Emperor X who gets the job 100 years later and just continues implementing the evil system that they inherited. One is a creator, one is a trained caretaker that sort of doesn’t know any better given they were brought up and trained in that system.
Apples and Oranges.
For sure, not denying that the moral culpability for the creation of a bad thing is different from the perpetuation of it. But that’s not an “apples and oranges” scenario.
I’ll form my counter this way: thought experiment time! Let’s pretend there was a Hitler Two, called “Twitler,” who was made in a lab and grew up exclusively in the Reich. Let’s pretend Twitler took over and dragged the war out 5 more years. Let’s also pretend that Twitler carried on similar atrocities, maybe the elimination of all Slavs.
By your logic, Twitler – simply because he didn’t start it – isn’t also morally culpable to more or less the same degree? That’s a kind of weird take to argue.
Well, I’m certainly not claiming that my point fits all circumstances or that you can’t come with specific exceptio examples where it doesn’t work as well — of course you can, and I can too.
What I will say is that I is that I believe it applies very well to the Hitler versus Georgiou comparison, and highlights why that is a bad analogy.
In fact, a much better comparison would be to compare her to a caretaker type of Roman emperor a hundred years after Caesar — for example: SPACE TRAJAN
No historical analogy will ever be perfect — and indeed, it can be dangerous when policymakers place undue reliance on inaccurate historical analogies. It’s not perpetually Munich 1938, despite what some hawks might like to think.
But that said:
1. We know next to nothing about the history of the Mirror Universe. We get that it’s not a pleasant place, but like most empires, it may have alternated between more benevolent and more repressive leaders. Georgiou may be more Ivan the Terrible than Peter the Great. If so, she’s not only mimicking previous leaders or getting caught up “in the system”; she’s *expanding* on it.
We do know that she conquered the Klingons by placing those explosives in the planetary core of Kronos, something her predecessors apparently failed to do. That indeed suggests that she was more bloodthirsty than earlier emperors.
2. The point of the “Space Hitler” moniker is ultimately that Georgiou, like Hitler, was a perpetrator of genocide, and that she therefore probably defies rehabilitation. Again, no analogy is perfect, but to claim that folks making it are “ignorant” and “can’t be helped” is deliberately tendentious and ignores this point. (And we are talking about a fictional character here.)
3. Genocide is a modern legal term, and it has a particular definition in international law (the destruction of an entire people or portion thereof). It did not exist during the time of the Mayans, and even if we were silly enough to apply it retroactively, a barbaric religious ritual involving human sacrifice probably still wouldn’t qualify. (People *today* argue vociferously about whether given human rights situations constitute genocide. Fareed Zakaria has argued quite strongly that human rights abuses against Uighurs in Xinjiang do not constitute genocide, for instance.)
From the description of the empire in the mirror mirror TOS episode, it sure as heck doesn’t sound like it’s changed much to me or that G’s done anything different than 100 years previously in that universe — again, based on what we learned in that TOS episode.
And the fact that after she’s exposed to the prime universe for a while, she realizes the moral issues of the mirror universe I think that kind of proves my whole point — because if she was truly evil and created the evil, she would not have that moral quandary and change of heart . She would instead remain ruthlessly committed to her evil ways.
I would conjecture that if you did the same thing to Adolf Hitler he would not change his evil ways and his heart would forever be evil… I can’t prove this, but I believe it’s more likely than not.
And so again, there’s your difference between the two — and that’s why I will continue to call BS on the Space Hitler name calling thing here.
Also, spot on with the fashion call. Georgiou needed some Hugo Boss
Very little interest in this, especially as it’s:
A. Has the Discovery creatives all over it.
B. They haven’t a clue what Section 31 actually is. It was never a part of Starfleet Intelligence but just a handful of hardcore Federation loyalists.
At least it’s just a movie and not a series.
Clearly you have no idea what S31 actually is. It’s fiction: it is what they say it is.
They said it wasn’t back in DS9, so you accept lazy and contradictory writing? Good for you, bet you’re a Discovery fan too. Seem the type.
I actually don’t like DSC, but I’m not even sure how that’s an insult unless you lack brain cells and are in kindergarten.
Fact is, retconning is part of Trek’s DNA. It does not equal “Lazy Writing.” This season of Picard is lazy writing.
Trek nostalgia is always lazy.
Four episodes ago you couldn’t get enough of it.
Exactly, Discovery ruined section 31 (which was a cool idea on DS9 and then Enterprise) a top secret covert organisation with their own ships, badges and star bases
Or, and hear me out, this is a crazy thing to consider, they changed what it was a hundred years early. Amazing how fiction works! But maybe you don’t understand it, you seem the type.
Enterprise was set before Discovery 🙄
Omg, are you saying that across 300 years of stories, things can change? Holy moly!
So in Enterprise era section 31 was a secret organisation covert and off the books! in Discovery’s time they are no longer a secret and are well known, with ships, bases etc, then by DS9 time they are again a secret organisation that nobody remembers.wow fantastic writing
OH MY GOD. YOU’VE OPENED MY EYES! LORD TAKE ME!
Alpha Predator and UpperDecks-NormalNecks agreeing, and in ALL CAPS no less.
You guys are really making feel that we’re having a franchise-healing moment here, no matter the occasional naysayers about this project.
I like it!
The entire premise of the Enterprise series itself broke Star Trek canon — in the Crew Room Museum area of the TMP Enterprise in the Display Case showing the most famous Enterprises, the first starship Enterprise is clearly shown as the XCV-330 (it is in an actual movie scene, so that makes it canon!), and it looks NOTHING LIKE the NX-01. And then the entire look of the series ends up looking much more like a predecessor to TNG, not TOS…that made zero sense?
So you are basing your complaints on a shitty series that the entire canon basis for is eminently questionable and which violated GR’s own future history for Star Trek.
Personally, I would neve use Enterprise to support any Trek discussion — the entire series is retconned BS that broke canon, of very poor quality, reeked of unnecessary fan service, was abandoned by fans (justifiably so), was not improved by Manny Coto, and deserved to get cancelled.
So there was an Enterprise before NX-01 that travelled somewhere between Warp 1 and Warp 3 and was based on a Vulcan ringship design. Big whoop.
That ship is also super ugly too.
I really want to see the NX-01 refit on screen. I mean really see it!
I have to disagree — that ship was super cool, but this best thing — it was bold! The NX-01 was incrementalist crap
Bro you keep responding to me. Please ignore me as you said man. You’re getting creepy again.
And Enterprise is awesome!
Yea, exactly! It was an awesome and bold design…way too radical for late Berman Trek. Okuda twice tried to get it approved for Enterprise, but Berman wanted an incrementalist boring design instead.
NO, none of it makes sense. But you just have to believe by the 24th century, they are completely forgotten by everyone. Maybe Section 31 invents neuralzers in the 23rd century. ;D
No one ever said Section31 was well known. People up in Starfleet rank knew about them, and they didn’t go out of their way to show off their Section31 ships. And just because people on DS9 was clueless about them didn’t mean that others weren’t aware of them.
Did you watch the same show?
Obviously you didn’t pay attention to the final scenes of Discovery season 2.
Where did you get the idea that Section31 is “handful of hardcore Federation loyalists”? From Luther Sloan? You think he was telling the truth? LOL We don’t even know if Sloan was his real name.
“From Luther Sloan? You think he was telling the truth?”
Thanks for this!
Why do fans seem to think that everyone onscreen is a reliable narrator?
Especially when with many of the grey characters are so clearly not. In fact, it’s a usually a plot point that the main cast are never certain which things they say are not.
Cool. Finally a Trek movie that might actually get made. If it succeeds, then maybe this is the model for Trek movies going forward.
Ha! Good point. We’ll get this long before Star Trek XIV
Kurtzman’s on the record as saying that there really has to be a particular justification to go with a cinematic release.
This is S31 is basically the streaming equivalent of a tentpole, prestige release. It makes so much sense.
Meanwhile, JJ Abrams came himself to an investors meeting and then failed to deliver.
Yeah, I think this is the ‘middle ground’ to finally get Star Trek movies made since they been failing at it for 7 years and counting now trying to get one in a theater again.
And I think this was the better option to keep people from having a meltdown if they kept the show idea. ;)
Love Yeoh, have liked her other performances – but Mirror Georgieu has been a bad, boring character.
Still, I hope they do a good job and make something watchable. I’m not a big fan of the Discovery team’s writing and direction so far.
This seems like a compromise – Scheduling for Michele Yeoh and also salary cost for just one movie instead of a full series run.
Though this may give a budget opening for #StarTrekLegacy to be greenlit. There will be a programming void on Paramount+ for live Trek.
I think you are missing some broader points here. This is telling me there’s not going to be a Legacy series. They are instead going to be having several movies/miniseries per year, and they will schedule these between this series…. And this is going to be instead of having to order more new series beyond the Academy one for a while — so that will take care of the gaps issue.
Secondly, so, no I don’t see us getting a Legacy series now given this… It’s much more likely one of the TV special events per year will be Legacy-based — so that’s what we’re going to get in place of a Legacy series.
I think we might get a Titan series but not Star Trek: Legacy where a ship travels around with ‘kids-of’ on a nostalgia tour of their legacy parents’ future.
The thing is there is an appetite for another ship-based show, and for more 25th century. People like Shaw, Seven, the LaForge sisters and young Kestra. So, they’ve built momentum.
Why not this too? I’d watch it as long as it’s not completely bent to fill a nostalgia tour. I want more strange and new, and SNW’s only 10 episodes a season.
As for Jack, he’s got his own redemption journey to take. There’s likely an audience for that. Putting him a movie with Beverly and Picard might be the best way to do that without burdening a series with his arc.
Maybe. I fell though like Stewart needs to move on though…maybe a couple cameos here and there.
Agree with everything you said. This doesn’t take any spots on the “series” schedule, as some had feared it might.
I think it’s more likely that once a year, for a few years, we get a Legacy movie/miniseries for that older audience of fans (probably from Matalas) to hang their hat on…but no series. This way they can give the fans some Legacy, but don’t have to do a complete and expensive series for that aging demographic.
Yes I do think this keeps things open for a 25th century spin off show. People would be losing their shit if they announced a S31 show instead today lol. Now it may not happen, but even if it does, it probably won’t happen anytime soon. But I’m good either way, a show, movie, mini-series (or all three lol). I just want more stories to expand the 25th series more than anything.
I would love a Janeway mini-series for example! :)
Paramount is tightening their belts. I doubt they will make a 25th show now. More likely we’ll get tv movies about some of the old characters. Maybe a movie where Worf retires to a retirement community on Risa and finds that Quark is his next door neighbor. It’s a comedy.
That may be true. I was the one who predicted Discovery would be gone first due to it. And I ALSO said we may not get a Picard spin off show over it. So I’m very aware of that.
But it doesn’t mean we WON’T get one lol. But yes I think a movie would be a great compromise too. Don’t tease me about a Worf-Quark show. I would be bouncing off the walls coming up with ideas for that lol.
Seriously Lower Decks is great and all but I would really love a live action comedic Trek show. Loved that Short Treks episode about the Tribbles.
One thing I do like about Kurtzman is he does seem to be open to every idea. For some, thats not great news lol. Especially when you see how people are taking shows like S31, Lower Decks, the Academy show, etc. But yeah I think everything is on the table. And I suspect they may ask McMahan to come up with a live action comedy show. It may not happen but you really can’t rule anything out..
It was Kurtzman’s idea to crossover SNW and LDS. Again, that’s why I like the guy. He’s taking chances. It doesn’t mean I will like everything personally but I listened for years from fans complain how bland Berman Trek was, well LDS certainly isn’t bland lol. Although it models itself after Berman Trek but yet isn’t. Sweet!
You want to shake up the formula a bit, well there you go! ;D
Yes, I definitely agree you.
I’m wondering where in the timeline this will be set. Will this be after she steps through the Guardian or roughly around the same time as DSC season 2?
Probably after she steps through the Guardian. We know what she was up to for most of season 2, and a story set during that season would have to be all about Control.
Hope they tie in S31 from DS9 and get Julian Bashir…..will time travel and experimental tech be involved?
The Disco writers being involved makes me think this wont bother with much Trek canon :-(
Maybe they’ll have her go “we need to get small and secret again” and then download all her memories and stuff into a golem that turns out to actually be Sloane…. or something else stupid like that
I think Bashir and O’Brien would have noticed something about that while they were inside of Sloan’s brain.
Tripping over “cyborg sausage” as they look for files…
YES! I think most fans want to see that more than anything. It could be a 25th century adventure story and Bashir is now running Section 31 and has to send Georgiou somewhere through time to complete a mission.
I really like the idea of a time travel/mult-verse story. It opens up all kinds of crazy possibilities for an agency like S31.
That would be cool!
I think a TV movie is a great idea! And if they get it right it could be another hit for P+ because Michelle Yeoh is so hot right now. I’ve always thought a Section 31 movie would be a better idea than a series. That’s all you could probably tie Michelle Yeoh down for right now anyway after the Oscar win. Now, Georgiou was sent back in time by the Guardian of Forever, I wonder what century this movie will be set in.
But I was told repeatedly by very reliable people on twitter, reddit, and in comment sections that everyone hated Discovery, it had nothing to offer, and that Trek was erasing everything about it from the canon. Yet a spinoff movie and show are happening. Funny how that works.
Always happy to see Michelle Yeoh. Section 31 doesn’t do a lot for me so glad it’s movie and not a show. They can always do a sequel if this one hits and is a success. I’ll be interested to see what kind of talent they pull cast wise outside of Yeoh and if they use people from the section 31 stuff on Discovery.
Absolutely adore Michelle Yeoh — she will marry me eventually; it’s just a matter of time — and absolutely detest the Emperor Georgeiu character and Section 31. I’m torn, obviously.
At least it’s a movie and not a series. Let’s get it over with and forget it. I would really rather see Michelle Yeoh as the original Captain Georgiou, in some prequel or alternate timeline story.
This is great. Big fan of Yeoh way before Discovery and the Oscar. It is an honor for the franchise that she is keeping her promise, love and kind interest to return. It seems this is finally moving forward!
Come on Paramount, if you can do a Section 31 streaming movie, you can give us an Enterprise movie about the Romulan War! Dust off that Star Trek: The Beginning script, add in the NX-01 crew, and maybe get Idris Elba for good measure. I bet Terry Matalas would love to revisit Enterprise.
Yeah I feel cheated about the whole Rommie War thing. We gotta see that someday. Post-DS9 series too.
LOL, it’s the first movie. If it’s successful enough, it can open up possibilities like an Enterprise movie as well. That’s something fans have been suggesting if a revival show is out of the cards. You have to look at the glass as half full. Bakula could show up on the NX-01 refit in a few years time!
Terry doing a movie would be great!
I feel you too. I would love an Enterprise movie over this idea. But as said there will be others, maybe Enterprise will get one in the future.
Wow, the level of vitriol on this board really is becoming so great that it almost stops me from coming here. If you like Section 31, Michelle Yeoh, the idea of a TV movie – super. If not, then super as well. But my god, stop jumping on each other. If you don’t like Michelle Yeoh it doesn’t mean that you’re an “angry white man” and if you do, it doesn’t mean you’re…whatever the opposite of that is, in all its myriad configurations. Stop generalizing about people, and stop lumping all of any group together. And, seriously, stop attacking each other. (As if my pleading will work. This is the internet after all, and since everyone hides behind a pseudonym, everyone feels free to be as horrible as they want to be.)
In any case, from a TV perspective, this is smart. You start with a TV movie and if it’s great and there seems to be appetite for a series, you go that route – treating the movie as a pilot. Personally, I was never really interested in Section 31 until the episode of Picard Season 3 where we got into Daystrom. To me the idea of “what is Starfleet’s Area 51” raised a bunch of interesting possibilities and so I became more interested to see where they take it. As I’ve said before, I’ll give anything Trek a shot. Tell me a great story and I’m in.
Yeah there’s an increasing number of loud jerks who will argue every single point they disagree with until it’s not fun anymore
Yep, I certainly been there! ;0
This place could use a better troll patrol. I’m not even male, not particularly angry, I just don’t care for Yeoh. But I would be up for a S31 movie, especially if they bring back Ash like they were supposed to. And add in more cool characters. If it’s a hit, take it to series.
More Star Trek is better than less. With enough volume, we can just ignore the portion that sucks. I treat Star Wars the same way now. No to Rey, yes to Ahsoka, etc.
I have to agree with you about the level of vitriol here lately. It’s becoming really unpleasant and is completely unnecessary. Sad, I’ve been visiting this site daily for over a decade, too.
A handful of people spend a good part of their day on TrekMovie belittling others with snarky comments and responses, dominating virtually every thread. I find myself posting far less than I used to and my visits here becoming less frequent.
Yeah it is unfortunate some people will be negative about everything but this show, now movie, has always been divisive for many.
Now that it’s happening, I hope people at least give it a chance, but knowing how some fans are, they are going to hate it no matter what unfortunately.
Very curious to know how much of this movie will be a riff on Everything Everywhere All At Once. I always laugh thinking about how when Patrick Stewart said he’d want to do a Picard story that was like Logan, the Secret Hideout team just did a riff on Logan for Picard – Season One. Anyway, everything Michelle Yeoh touches turns to gold and the future of the franchise is in stories like this and Starfleet Academy and for the older fans they’ll get a quality rehash of TOS in Strange New Worlds.
Very interesting. Trek’s first TV movie.
Much better than taking the risk of a box office failure. This way, they can gauge interest in a series.
I’m not really sold on the concept yet. Paramount should try other premises the same way. If they’re scared to give Star Trek: Legacy a series, try a movie.
I don’t think this was ever considered for theatrical release. It was only ever planned to be for Paramount+, but Yeoh’s Academy Award win made it even harder to get her for a series than it already was, but a single feature film for the service makes a lot more sense.
There’s always the possibility this could go theatrical first if it tests well.
I’m still in favor of Star Trek: Legacy. Although I’m happy for those who are looking forward to that new movie, whether or not I should give that a chance may be up to me.
I’m ok with this . I dislike the premise as a continuing series, dislike the character and only think Yeoh is average actor at best. However, I will give it a shot I have been surprised before.
Best way to go for Paramount plus. Checks allot of boxes. What better way to foray into streaming movies with an Oscar winner of notoriety. Despite my opinion, thats what she is.
If it’s a failure not much is risked. If successful, it may open the door to more streaming movies or turning a streaming movie into a limited or full fledged series. Basically potential backdoor pilots can be produced.
No doubt Michelle’s Oscar helped nudge this project out of development purgatory, but whatever the reason, it’s good news for the franchise.
This is a great tester for a Trek TV movie! Not as keen on the Discovery heavy production team however. This will be popular due to Yeoh and keep track front-and-centre on streaming.
Not a show but a TV movie? 100% on board! 👍
Hopefully Section 31: The Adolf Chronicles will be good! And get Bashir on it!
Yeah a great compromise! I think even the biggest haters of this character are at least happy it’s not a full on show. I’m actually excited about it now too.
And yeah would love to see Bashir be a part of it.
Agreed. I’m totally cool with this. 😎
I hate Adolf to my core, but I do like Yeoh as an actor. I just think she sucks playing this specific role. But maybe winning that Oscar and hopefully much better writing will inspire her to turn it up a bit for the movie.
And I always said if they made a show I would give it a chance. And I’m not evil, if enough people really wanted the show they should’ve made it, I just didn’t have to watch it if I hated it.
Thankfully that’s not happening now but a movie could be really fun. And if it sucks…I only wasted 2 hours of my time. 😂
Hopefully it will be good though!
Yep that’s the right attitude to have. I don’t love the character either but my mind can be changed. And if they are SMART and add more popular characters like Trip, Bashier, Tyler, Worf, ANYBODY else lol, then people may get on board who are still against the idea.
Either way, it’s just a two hour movie now and not a 5 season show people would’ve been whining about until it was cancelled. I could actually feel the disappointment of all the YouTubers who was probably hoping it became a show so they could rip it apart every week lol. I’m so happy those losers won’t get the chance now.
But I’m really excited to get details and hopefully a few casting surprises. ;)
I love Michelle Yeoh, but I hate Section 31. I wish they were giving us a TV movie about CAPTAIN Phillipa Georgiou, not EMPEROR Phillipa Georgiou.
The business and creative types mostly seem to think that Darkness sells better. I come to Star Trek partly for the idealism-is-cool vibe, damn it!
Have you been watching Picard S3? Things look pretty bleak at the moment…..
I think this is a great chance to test the waters and gauge viewer response to smaller but significant bites of Star Trek.
This could open the way to more “event” films that explore characters and story ideas that either don’t warrant a whole new series and/or don’t fit into the context of existing series.
I also envision this approach making it more feasible for Michelle and others to return again and again while still pursuing their feature film careers.
I’m just saying but if a Kelvin movie is dead in the water in terms of a feature, this would be a great option instead!
Section 31 would be the first Star Trek TV movie in history.
Still have zero interest in Section 31. It’s just not something that captivates me. Love Michelle but am not a fan of Mirror Georgiou. The Character does absolutely nothing for me…although with better writing, maybe she could. Since it’s just a movie, I’ll likely check out the trailer to see if it looks any good.