Mike McMahan Calls On Fans To Help Keep ‘Star Trek: Lower Decks’ From Facing The Same Fate As ‘Prodigy’

The currently streaming fourth season of Star Trek: Lower Decks continues to build both series lore and fan loyalty. Not only has viewer response been strong, but season 5 was confirmed to be in the works almost six months before season 4 debuted. While these are all outwardly positive signs for the health of the Lower Decks as a series, showrunner Mike McMahan is cautious not to conflate current success with future security.

Changes at Paramount+ have Lower Decks showrunner concerned

When discussing the direction of the Star Trek franchise with CinemaBlend, McMahan deliberately stopped short of taking a sixth season of Lower Decks for granted…

“Yeah, I mean, listen, we’re in weird times. Everything is changing. I think everything’s gonna continue to change. I would say nothing is safe. I don’t have any bad news for anybody, but also, I think you shouldn’t assume that this stuff is gonna stick around unless you vocally and watch it early on. I do not know if we’re going to have another season after the season we’re working on right now [Season 5]. Lower Decks could very well be a five-season show.”

While McMahan may have hoped to match the 7-season run of the shows in TNG-era that inspired his animated series (or exceed it), that was a different time, with a completely different business model. Things have changed from the birth of the streaming era a decade ago, leading to the big-spending of the “streaming wars” which saw multiple Star Trek shows launched on CBS All Access (later rebranded as Paramount+). Now Paramount+ is joining other media companies by pulling back on spending for original content. Just today Paramount cancelled the relaunched iCarly, after that series ran for three seasons.

Perhaps the most visible example of the unpredictability of the streaming model and how it impacts Star Trek is the current status of Star Trek: Prodigy. After finishing its first complete season, the show was removed from Paramount+, even though work continues on a second season as Paramount looks to find a new home for the show. Fan response to the Prodigy removal was swift, flooding social media with the hashtag #SaveStarTrekPodigy and buying official releases of Season 1 on physical media. McMahan has Prodigy (and other ending Trek shows) in mind as he tells CinemaBlend he is hoping for that kind of fan energy for Lower Decks:

“So, if you love Lower Decks as much as I do, I would say make sure to watch it and get people to watch it now. A letter writing campaign after a show gets canceled, it’s helpful, but what’s more helpful is campaigning to get more eyes on the show when it’s airing because it gives me the ability to push for more seasons. I would love to finish Lower Decks with the plan that I have for it. I would say, take Prodigy looking for a new [network], and take a look at Picard being wrapped at Season 3, and at Discovery wrapping as well. I would say read those as signs that if you want more Lower Decks, you should be vocal about it now and not wait.”

While it’s unlikely Paramount+ would remove Lower Decks like it did with Prodigy and work on the fifth season has already started, so that still seems like it will make its way to the streaming service. However, McMahan’s comments make it clear that a sixth season is not a given.

McMahan wants fans to be vocal about Lower Decks

More Lower Decks… If Opportunity Allows

Notable within McMahan’s words is that there is a plan for Lower Decks that takes it beyond its current five seasons. Ending the series early would necessitate a rush to write a full conclusion, and while McMahan and his writing team are likely prepared for that scenario, they want the fans to know it’s possible to deliver more seasons of Lower Decks, given the opportunity. The Lower Decks team is hitting its stride in the fourth season. In the words of Supervising Director Barry Kelly, they are now performing like “a well-oiled machine.” Ideally, season 5 should be a time to set Lower Decks up for a long, well-crafted finish, rather than quickly cap it in order to move on to the next project.

Star Trek has a long, proud history of fan campaigning, from the successful push to get a third season of Star Trek: The Original Series to the unsuccessful push to get a fifth season of Enterprise. A popular online petition following the second season of Discovery may have helped sell Parmount+ on launching Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. These are the efforts McMahan references when talking about “letter-writing campaigns,” but in the era of streaming and accelerated show development, a more proactive approach is needed to keep current shows running. In essence, McMahan is saying by the time a show is cancelled, it may be too late. In calling for fans to be vocal and active, Mike McMahan is tapping a resource he knows is there and has been crucial in the past. Is it too soon for the #SaveStarTrekLowerDecks hashtag? Perhaps, but viewer engagement that is likely to show support for Star Trek: Lower Decks would be sharing the show on social media, purchasing it on DVD or Blu-ray, and of course, re-watching episodes currently available on Paramount+.  Maybe #WatchStarTrekLowerDecks would be more apt?

Bjo and John Trimble

Fans who helped save the original Star Trek: Bjo and John Trimble at the launch of Star Trek: Discovery in 2017 (CBS)

Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.

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Honestly, I really really like Lower Decks, but if it being cancelled frees up money for a live-action series, I’d rather have “Legacy” than a season 6 and 7 of Lower Decks.

Agreed that the $ should be freed up to support new Trek series. It and DSC both got their 5 years — let’s not get greedy here — time to move on.

5 seasons is pretty much the standard length a show should air. Anything beyond that is just pure greed. Looking a 90’s, 00’s trek.

That’s actually a hard choice for me. I would be thrilled if Legacy came after LDS, but I still want LDS to go more seasons.


LOL I’ll spot you!

It will be a quick spot since I’m nowhere close to the shape Ransom is in. 😂

HAHAHA tell me about it.. They would be tracing balloons to draw me


It’s not your choice though. You have no say in this.

What I can’t actually decide what multi million dollar shows gets produced and put on the air from my phone??? There isn’t an app for that? I’m shocked! 😂


This is the absolute nightmare outcome in my eyes, so of course it’s going to happen. I may as well prepare for it.

No, they’re going to reallocate the money to the section 31 movie reshoots 😃

Wouldn’t be 1:1. LDS is way cheaper than any of the live action shows. So it would free up some money, but there would be some calculus to see if that’s better than having an animated show still going. It does fill a niche a la what Star Wars has been doing for some time.

I love the show, but if they cancel it, I hope they make a Lower Decks movie!

Damn, we’ve come a long ways from when Paramount was talking about having Star Trek on 365 days a year. I totally get the need for streaming companies to start cutting back, as their previous model of just green lighting everything was obviously not sustainable (and whatever C-suite execs thought it was are complete morons – but that’s kinda part for the course with C-suite), but still hurts to see Star Trek not being immune to these “market forces.”

With that being said, hopefully McMahan’s concerned are unfounded, and Lower Decks still has many years ahead of it!

They aren’t unfounded. Paramount has already said they are pulling back on all spending, and going beyond season 5 of a show is exceptionally rare in streaming.

Maybe Lower Decks can migrate to wherever Prodigy goes and they can pick up more episodes there as the home of animated Star Trek.

Yep, 5 is now most likely going to be the standard for Trek. First DSC, now LDS.

I totally get that P+ is cutting back across the board. Also with the writer’s strike over, residuals for writers will undoubtedly go up (good) but that means P+ will probably cut back even more than they would have before because now these shows will cost more and long after the production wraps.

Having said that, I see a commercial like every 5 minutes from P+ bragging how they are the home of Star Trek so they have to keep that up somehow

Higher residuals probably means shows won’t be hanging around on streaming sites after they end their runs. That’s already happening.

Yeah that’s what I was afraid of.

I support AI writers


With DSC, I feel they’ve established the Trek streaming series standard length to be five seasons, similar to the old broadcast Trek standard series length of seven seasons.

So this will be the right time to move on and let some new Trek series’ get rolling.

The first four seasons of Discovery are all more than ten episodes, though. Assuming a “standard” count of ten episodes per season, Discovery will have had 6 1/2 seasons’ worth of material when it finishes its fifth season.

I wouldn’t say a standard length has been established. Picard was intentionally done at three seasons. All the other shows were intended by their creators to run longer than they have so far, though Discovery is being wrapped up with S5 after reshoots to turn what was apparently an open-ended season finale meant to lead to S6 into a definitive, hopefully satisfying series finale, and Prodigy has an uncertain future for even the second season being completed right now, never mind any possible seasons beyond that.

Ideally, each of the shows would run whatever length its makers deem desirable for creative reasons, rather than having the specter of premature cancellation looming over anything that doesn’t perform to corporate satisfaction (or, alternately, continuing long after it’s accomplished its creative goals because it performs well and its corporate owner refuses to give it up). But that’s not how American TV shows typically operate.

At any rate, I wouldn’t want to lose Lower Decks, a show I love and would like to see run its full creative course, in order to get “Legacy”, a show I’m respectfully not sure I want regardless of whether Lower Decks is still around or not, but I realize I’m not representative of everyone else in the fandom.

Paramount was actually planning new Trek every week, not 365 days a year. That’s 52 episodes per year, which isn’t ridiculous: they were doing that in the 1990s with TNG/DS9 and then DS9/VOY. This time, those 52 episodes (probably more like 50, allowing for Christmas holidays when no one is watching TV) would have been spread out over five or six shows, not two. So burnout would have been less of a problem.

Oof, yeah, that’s totally what I meant 🤦‍♂️

Sadly, while creative burnout *might* be less of a problem — although query whether Trexperts like Matalas and McMahan glued to the screen, whether that’s really true — the fixed costs of producing a new series are.

It’s a bit sad all the promise of getting 5 shows and having a new Trek show on every week of the year only lasted a single year but I think they just got too ambitious too quickly. In the Berman era, we didn’t get a new Trek show until TNG was in it’s sixth season and built up a lot of good will. And DS9 was basically made to replace it. VOY just happen to come along when UPN was born and we got a lot of Star Trek for years.

The model here was basically trying to keep subscribers on Paramount’s fledgling streaming service all year by literally making Trek all year for fans. Sure, that works for everyone here but I think for casual and newer fans it didn’t work out as they wanted. And these shows, at least the live action ones, are way more pricey than the old days. People wanting shows like SNW to be 20 episodes or every show to go seven seasons is a pipe dream. The streaming model just isn’t built that way.

But I was hoping we at least got a multitude of shows to fill the gaps even if most just lasted 3-5 years. But after seeing DIS cancelled out of the blue and Prodigy unceremoniously dumped in the worst way possible, all these shows are probably on the chopping block once hey pass a certain number of episodes or seasons.

True about the EP count but also modern streaming shows cost a lot more to make than the TNG era shows did.

But isn’t the bulk of the cost a fixed cost (sets, costumes, props, studios, etc.)? So amortizing that cost over more episodes makes each episode cheaper? Are the SNW stages in Toronto being used to film other shows during the off-season? Do the CGI companies get paid per episode?

I also have to wonder exactly how much of a chance did Paramount give this year-round Trek idea. We never really came close to that, due to COVID pushing back production by many months. They tried filling gaps by putting Prodigy on Paramount+ when originally it was going to be exclusive to Nickelodeon, at least for the first few months. But Prodigy was never going to be a big draw with casual adult audiences (and evidently wasn’t.) Lower Decks is popular among most fans, but I don’t think it has achieved much awareness among the non-diehard-fan audience, either. PIC 3 and SNW are the first Paramount+ Treks to really get strong word-of-mouth and non-diehard-fan attention, I think.

Yeah this isn’t going to be a repeat of the Berman era. Two shows have already been prematurely cancelled (but Prodigy can still come back), Picard is done and we obviously don’t know how long LDS and SNW will last. LDS will go at least 5 seasons and SNW will probably go that long too. After that though?

But the days we thought we were getting 50 weeks of Star Trek like we got for 7 years in the 90s is not happening. In a year we may not even get half that.

But hopefully you’re right and Mike is just being paranoid. I can’t blame him though, especially since Paramount+ is feeling like the UPN of streaming. 😂😐😥

I’m sitting here nervously watching to see if they pull the plug on Transformers Earthspark when they have so much that needs to be included in season 2.

I never seen it, but it must be good if you like it that much.

It’s a lot like PRO honestly. The enby character in that, Nightshade, just acts and talks like Zero and that’s the most blatant example of it. If I gave you this quote “what a wonderful word for a wonderful experience” which character do you think said that?

It’s also very blatantly an allegory for the current immigration issues, even down to the Cybertronians being kept in jail, towards the end of the season regardless of which faction they were even part of. Even the new generation born on Earth have to avoid getting caught while trying to learn about the cultures (both Cybertronian and human) they were born from. And the narrative just kinda gently nudges you towards the conclusion that it’s wrong no matter if they were an autobot, one of the new generation, or a decepticon. It’s very Trek like there actually.

It’s good but it’s got some writing flaws holding it back from being great. And that’s mostly with some of the legacy characters that they say are important to the plot but at the same time you really don’t know much at all about how they got to the point they’re at. Like, for example, Megatron. I won’t give more details there because his entire arc in the show is huge spoilers (unless you already know the premise of the show) but he’s inconsistent as hell and it’s making me wonder what they’re even going to do with him in season 2. (This said though I love the Scottish accent he has in this series. I keep waiting for him to start talking like Scotty.)

Back to what I was saying about it’s like PRO. It’s got the same kind of vibes tbh.

And what they did in episode 21 with taking the abuse that Starscream has been through seriously and not blaming him for it or making a joke of it is just so incredible and makes me love the show even more.

Ooo. Might have to give that a look before my P+ sub runs out.

I definitely recommend it.

Wow that actually sounds pretty good lol. I did watch the old Transformers cartoon when I was a kid and consider myself a fan but not really into the new generation, especially the movies.

But you convinced me to check it out and see if I like it, especially if it has Prodigy vibes. That’s good to know.

Wow I’m pretty impressed by your review of the show too. Maybe I’ll give it a chance once LDS is done. There will be no new Trek until whenever DIS shows up so I can watch something else on that site during the wait. ;)

But the days we thought we were getting 50 weeks of Star Trek like we got for 7 years in the 90s is not happening. 

Good. There was plenty of commentary at the time to the effect that there was too much Trek on the screen at once, and that quality (particularly on VOY) was suffering as a result. It’s nothing compared to the “throw as much on the wall as possible” approach we’ve gotten recently, of course, but the criticism existed. Given the poor quality of VOY’s early seasons, when Jeri Taylor was producer/showrunner, I think that’s justified.

They would do extremely well to focus on one high-quality show with 15 episodes per year. More is not inherently better.

I got into Trek because of Voyager and was the only Trek show I cared about. It took years to even get into other Trek shows, so I didn’t actually watch the shows together until after they were off the air but loved all the 24th century Trek when I gave them a chance. ENT and TOS were the only ones I had a harder time getting into but grew to like those too later.

I get it, you don’t like a lot of the old or new shows. Some of us however is happy to have as much as possible (unless it’s more Nemesis or Threshold then we are in full agreement. Some of the worst Trek ever made).

Damn. I can’t even imagine approaching fandom from that direction, and I’ve been a fan since ‘72. (To this day I haven’t even seen every episode of VOY, though I did tune-in for what turned out to be a quite lackluster finale.) To each, his own.

Well because you just sound a lot older than me and was roped in as a kid when it wasn’t that old. I never saw a single episode of Trek until I got into college when Voyager and DS9 were still running and my roommate was watching those shows (although ironically he hated them both at the time lol) and my then girlfriend who I also met in college too and she was also a Trek fan and Voyager was her second favorite show after TNG. She hated TOS because she thought it was too sexist, outdated and didn’t get into Trek until TNG. It was really her how I got into VOY because of her and I just started watching it with her casually every week and it grew on me. She didn’t like DS9 at the time either (it’s very funny today how that show is so popular now when back then people almost treated it like the plague lol). But they were the influence in my Trek through the stars.

But I didn’t consider myself anything close to a ‘Trekkie’ because I had zero interest to watch the other shows. I’ll go one farther and thought once VOY ended that would be the end of my interest for Trek lol. I never thought I would watch VOY again once it ended because I rarely watched any show after I seen it.

Safe to say things did change. 😂

My point is I was a casual fan in the strictest way possible. I didn’t even watch all the VOY episodes. If I was told the episode sucked or I saw a preview that didn’t interest me I wouldn’t even bother watching that week. That went for the first two seasons, with no intention of ever watching it. By the third year I was hooked and watched all of them weekly.

So yeah I come from it very differently because I really only casually watched it for years. I didn’t watch DS9 until 2004 in fact , six years after I started watching VOY. Didn’t watch ENT until 5 years after that one. To this day I haven’t watched all the TOS episodes either, but mostly third season because everyone says it sucks lol. But I have told myself I will watch the whole show soon. I’ve seen about 50-60 episodes so far.

But I think I represented the casual fan for a long time and why when I went online and talked to a lot of hardcore fans I still felt very very lost lol. There are people who only care about just one show or don’t consider themselves Trek fans but you rarely see them online… probably because the majority aren’t into it enough to talk about it or just feel overwhelmed discussing it beyond the show they became fans of like I did. This is probably true of fans who got into it in the 90s like me and never watched TOS. And just like there were people like you who only watched TOS there were people in college I met who only watched TNG and so on.

This board especially sounds like it’s really old fans whose been watching it mostly in the 60s, 70s and 80s. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of people like me who watched it in the 90s or even when JJ verse started. It’s a weird thing but I guess Trek just skews much older today although there are younger fans in their 20s on social media even if still not a lot.

We fully agree on the VOY finale though. Lackluster is a good word for it.

Great reply, thanks. It’s very easy — especially for old-school types like myself — to forget that this is a fifty-plus year-old franchise, and that fans you may share a forum with are nevertheless coming at this from a very different cultural perspective. For what it’s worth TOS’ sexism is very apparent to me watching it now (I just checked out “Space Seed” for the first times in years and, yeesh, don’t get me started). But allowing for differences in such attitudes, along with acting styles and production values, I still think the best of those old shows hold up, and I’ve watched a fair number of YouTube videos hosted by people young enough to be my children who seem to agree.

As to VOYAGER, it was the first Trek series I watched where I sensed the franchise’s creative exhaustion and began to suspect that it might be a good idea to turn the reins over to others, or let it rest for awhile. (ENTERPRISE only confirmed this.) Maybe I’ll give it a rewatch and will feel differently about it this time. In any case, never apologize for liking what you like.

No worries man. I just wanted to clarify. But you’re right a lot of people seem to think if you’re on a board like this discussing Trek it means you were either influenced by TOS or TNG and had an affinity for all the shows even if there are one or two you weren’t a big fan of like you and Voyager.

I came at it a totally different way because I was never interested in Trek and once I started watching it I still never saw myself as a fan, just a fan of Voyager mostly although I got into TNG a year later. Those were really the only two shows I followed for years.

Just to clarify again I did try to watch DS9 because it was also airing at the time. But besides my friends assuring me it wasn’t ‘real’ Trek and beyond awful it was already in it’s sixth season by then. I was totally lost trying to understand what was going on lol. It was full blast into the Dominion war and there were so many characters and back story I couldn’t keep up. I still remember someone trying to explain the back story of the Carsassians and Bajorans and it sounded so complicated. I think I gave up after the third episode and told myself I’m never watching that ever again. Today it’s my second favorite show only behind TNG and I rewatch the show from beginning to end about five times now.

But that’s why Voyager was a more popular show at the time for new and casual fans. That show was made for people like me. People complained it wasn’t serialized enough but that’s why I loved it along with TNG. You never felt forced to watch it every week. And unlike DS9 and TNG Voyager didn’t rely on all the Federation canon goobly gook stuff fans drooled on about. All you had to know was they were lost in space and about some of the aliens on the ship like Tuvok or B’Elanna. It was so much easier for non fans to get into and start slow.

As for TOS I am a fan of it but I never got into it the way others did. If I watched it when I was younger I probably would’ve had a bigger fondness for it. My friend who got me into Trek was a huge TOS fan and what he grew up on. He came from a hardcore Trek family. His parents were part of the letter writing campaign to save TOS when they were in college themselves. They been to conventions all around the world and had signatures of nearly every cast member at the time from TOS through Voyager. He had pictures of his parents standing next to Gene Roddenberry and Leonard Nimoy before he was even born.

That’s the guy who was my roommate lol. I doubt I would be a Trek fan today if I never met him or my girlfriend back then. But as I said it still took years to become the fan I am now.

I’m speaking just for myself but I had NO problems watching back to back Trek for years on end. I basically watched TNG, DS9 and VOY the day they premiered every week and only missed them when I had something that took me away from being in front of the TV. But those are also my three favorite shows today.

Now I will admit when VOY ended, I did think it was time for a break and a big reason why I had trouble getting into ENT and gave up on it so fast. But I suspect if they just postponed that show just 1-2 years later, many of us who had fatigue would’ve been hungry for more Trek after being off the air a year.

But those 7 years were pure bliss for me to have 52 episodes a year. And a new movie every few years made it even better.

We agree that a break should have been taken after Voyager. I realized that would probably be the right move at that time even though I personally loved the idea of yet another Trek show. It is possible Enterprise could have gone on longer if they delayed. Obviously it would have been a different show though…

Enterprise is my 3rd favorite series of all of them, too.

To each, his own.

Bro it’s so funny how much you love Enterprise but hate Voyager where as I love Voyager but hated Enterprise. 😂

Today you know I like it a lot now and it’s tied with SNW which I also like a lot. But if people think I’m hard on Discovery they didn’t know me when I used to rag on Enterprise so badly people wanted me kicked off the boards at Trekweb. 😆

I was hard on that show like no other and I only seen 12 episodes by then. I nearly jumped for joy when I heard it was cancelled. Now I really want a fifth season. But it proves my mind can always be changed and not just looking to hate on any of these shows or movies. I was hoping eventually Discovery would have the same turnaround for me by now but it only gotten worse. 🙄

Ok this is a little embarrassing but for some reason I thought I was speaking to my buddy Amirami and not ML31. I have no idea how I missed that??? He’s not a fan of Voyager but loves Enterprise and I used to be the opposite. No idea how you feel about Voyager personally so sorry about that.

Oops. Sorry then. I made a post where I was confused about my hating on Voyager.

All good.

Yeah so bizarre how I confused you two.🤪

Where was it said I hate Voyager? Voyager is fine. Where did you get that idea? I like it better than TNG in fact.

Yeah the show just needed a break which Berman himself suggested to UPN and to wait a few years, but you know, $$$. In fact, I’m sure you know this, but UPN originally wanted a new Trek show on the air in Voyager’s seventh season. They wanted two shows running at the same time and to get fans into a new show before VOY left but Berman convinced them to wait until that show was done first.

But I agree, I think Enterprise could’ve went on longer if fans got a refresh….or it could’ve been cancelled in season 2 lol. We’ll never know obviously but I think a break would’ve gave me a recharge at least.

Disco wasn’t canceled. You don’t pay millions for reshoots for a cancelled show. TV shows end. Everyone ends… except for me, I plan to live forever.

They shot the reshoots after they cancelled it. If they knew it was ending before they wouldn’t need reshoots buddy. 😂😂😂

Yeah it was cancelled. Sorry you can’t face reality but that’s how cancellations work. I’m shocked it wasn’t cancelled sooner.

Yeah it was cancelled lol. Doug Jones made that clear because he said how shocked he was the show got cancelled when he heard about it during a Star Trek cruise out of all places. And they cancelled it nearly a year after season 5 already wrapped. If that wasn’t the case then they would’ve been released from their contracts and could find new work right after they finished making the season. It’s ironic there were people convinced it was going to go on for multiple more seasons, now the new talking point is it was always inevitable it was going to end after season 5 lol.

But that guy is a troll and one of the few Discovery lovers on this board. It’s a waste of time trying to have a real conversation with him. He says he hates Trump but constantly lies, constantly contradicts himself and troll baits like him. We need ignore buttons for useless posters like this.

There is more than enough money to support five Trek shows. Streamers can go yadda-yadda about “oh this is just not as profitable as we though it would be and we’re losing money,” what they really mean is the CEO and shareholders might make $2-$3M less per year.

The problem is they also have to pay A list actors like Harrison Ford for the Yellowstone prequel shows.

1923 has just one more season. Taylor Sheridan shows get attention, though I don’t know how many people have watched Lioness.

The streamers are likely taking a harder look at the need to hire A-list movie stars for TV projects. At the very least they’ll probably start to talk their prices down a lot.

Oh wow didn’t know that about 1923

I never believed that Trek year round tomfoolery. It was all just PR to blow smoke up the fans behinds.

5 is about right. If it’s good enough for Discovery, it’s good enough for Lower Decks.

Additionally, with the promotions, the main characters aren’t junior officers on the “lower decks” anymore, so thematically, it also seems like the right time to wind up the story with S5.

7 seasons would be ideal. It’s the best of all the new shows in my view.

I hope Mike gets to finish it his way.

I love me some “Lower Decks”.

That said, I hope it goes out at 5. I’m a fan of this show going out on top instead of languishing season after season until someone drops the hammer on my poor baby bear.

I am surprised that LD has not been shopped to Cartoon Network’s Adult Swim lineup, or just gone syndication.

Well its not because it has a home now. McMahan isn’t saying the show is cancelled, he’s just concerned it could be. But until that happens, it’s owned by P+ and where it lives. And I don’t think it will ever be a Prodigy situation because we have to remember that show was always a Nickelodeon show first and being on P+ was just a by product of that to just grab more Trek fans. When the show was announced it wasn’t even suppose to come to All Access at the time and probably why they had no problem erasing it from the site because P+ never paid for it directly.

Well, if LDS ends production on P+ and winds up becoming a hit on Cartoon Network, it could possibly see a revival at that point, much as “Futurama” did after being cancelled on Fox. Obviously it’s more practical and much less costly to restart an animated series than it is a live action one.

(Speaking of “Futurama,” did you ever get around to checking out “Where No Fan Has Gone Before,” and if so, what did you think?)

You should check out the ratings for Cartoon Network. It’s not good. Netflix and Disney has pretty much made Cartoon Network obsolete.

Hey Michael, yeah I did check out Futurama and wrote you my response back in that original thread a day ago. It’s there. But basically I loved it man. It was pure fun and the jokes and send ups were great. I actually watched it again lol.

Thanks for recommending it too me. I still can’t believe I never even heard of it until now.

Holy cow.. I thought EVERYONE here knew about the Futurama Trek episode. I thought it was great, myself.

Being trapped in Mellvar’s looney impression of fandom would be like attending a Trek convention. . . forever.

Nimoy: Uh, Mellvar, how long will we have to do this?

Mellvar: Until the end of time.

Fry: So all along, he was just a child!

Mellvar’s Mom: What child? He’s thirty years old!

But when Mellvar admits that he didn’t make enough script copies for his Star Trek production and says “George and Nichelle, you’ll have to share,” I totally lost it.

Glad you enjoyed it.

Oh oh. He knows something….

more likely, he FEARS something, CANCELLATION!

He fears the lost of money.

Yeah, he is telegraphing that the end is coming probably.

He shouldn’t worry too much – ParmamoutGlobal’s history with SOUTH PARK and BEAVIS AND BUTT HEAD Shows they’ll stick with a hit show for years…

Yeah but South Park and Beavis were actually hits. South Park even more so. And SP was actually funny. So yes. I’d say Mike has great reason to be concerned. I’d say his only shot is to make the show funny. But it might be too late already.

Well said. They should consider it a success to get the five seasons, because it seems like that’s going to be it

Many people find the show funny.

Certainly me! Laugh every episode!

Truth be told, I often don’t find it to be all that funny, which for a show that purports to be a comedy should be a real problem! But there are compensations — the attention to Trek lore and world building; the occasionally clever plotting; and the deft skewering of franchise low points that blight all of the shows, even the best ones. And once in awhile it can really surprise you: having just seen “Wej Duj” for the first time I can unequivocally state that for my money a half-hour cartoon did a better job portraying the Vulcans and their culture than just about anything shot during the Berman era.

They have come up with a clever situation from time to time. I’ve always admitted that. The problem is a clever idea is pretty worthless when the show is trying to make you laugh and fails. The awful characters and sub par writing would be a complaint but that seems to be a disease that has spread all over Secret Hideout.

Well, as usual we disagree. Just to take an example, I thought the Cochrane Memorial/Tacky Theme Park was very funny as a concept, but undercooked in practice. Consequently, I didn’t laugh, and I should have (I’m actually an easy mark). But I did smile, and I think that’s far from worthless. Nor do I find the characters “terrible” (I’ve actually come to be fond of a couple of them), nor the writing. It’s a jokey, parody cartoon, and at the very least perfectly adequate for what it’s trying to accomplish. Your tastes run differently, and that’s fine. But I’ll give the show this much: at least each plot doesn’t lead to the same, predictable conclusion, unlike certain posts that invariably end by trashing a production company whether that’s actually germane to what’s being discussed or not.

I don’t know… Even though some concepts can be clever I have found where the plots go to be eminently predictable. What non-easter egg gags they include are often seen coming miles ahead. I find Mariner to be an awful person. Boimler is Homer Simpson level stupid. And the other two are a bit on the wrong side of irritating. There is nothing edgy about it. It’s amazingly tame for what is billed as an “adult” comedy. The joke level actually belongs more on Nickelodeon than anywhere else. Archer level comedy it isn’t. I was actually hoping the humor level would be more like the first 2 Very Short Trek’s. Which were stunningly funny.

One should also be aware that even if a reader might enjoy what a production company does some posts that end with a reminder of a deficiency that permeates said production company can actually be wildly appropriate to what’s being discussed.

As I said above (in response to your declaration that ENT is one of your favorites) to each, his own.

🙄 Boimler is not stupid. Just because you don’t understand the character doesn’t mean he is.

No. He’s understood perfectly well. They try to hide it by showing him put a device together once in a while. But the guy truly acts like a 6 year old.

And yet. He still acts better than you do.

So.. How to say you’ve never seen Lower Decks without saying you’ve never seen Lower Decks.

No Boimler is nowhere near stupid and one of the smartest people on the ship. He has helped save the ship several times with his ideas.

That is the irony about LDS to me, because I originally thought they were going to make the characters bumbling idiots for the ‘comedy’ when in fact it’s the opposite and they are all very smart and knowledgeable, just more green basically (no pun intended to Tendi lol).

We must be watching different shows. Boimler is easily a tremendous buffoon. As I said, on occasion he puts something together but if we are being honest, those things come across as blind luck for this dude more than anything else. Old reference but Boimler is the Mr. Magoo of Star Trek.

Perhaps not enough it seems.

Except this is not a hit in terms of a broad audience like those two shows are

Big difference!

I’m more worried about Strange New Worlds ending prematurely than this. That really needs another three seasons (five year mission total) to tell a full story in my view. It’s also vastly more expensive to make.

Nah, that’s a top 10 streaming show. That and Yellowstone are gold for years

SNW is actually not only the youngest Trek show out of all of them, it’s also the only live action show in production right now. Yeah we’ll get the Academy show but that won’t show up for another two years so unless SNW just take a major dive in the ratings next season or Paramount+ just completely folds (and that IS possible) it should be around a few more years easily.

…just read a Variety(?) article yesterday which talked about the rankings of each streaming service, and one part indicated P+ received a significant bump in viewership over the past year mainly because of all the films they added from their huge library. No mention of any of their original programming.

Well ya I mean P+ has Top Gun so I’m sure that played a huge part in it. But I wouldn’t count out the streaming shows. P+ advertises Star Trek like crazy and in one particular instance puts it in the same commercial as the NFL.

Indeed, that was a fun commercial, too –

Yes it was!

I think that was a poll of viewer satisfaction. They did go up, for sure.

The bump in viewership has been a little more modest lately. Partly it’s down to India and Paramount snagging cricket rights from Disney.

SNWs should shoot for 3 seasons and call it a wrap.

Why? Because you don’t care for it, even if others do?

I like it. I just finished the first season last week. Maybe next year I’ll try the seconded.

A34 is just a troll and just hurt it’s more popular than Discovery. I have never seen such a bitter middle age nerd so upset over a TV show because people happen to like it more. And of course not everyone loves SNW, I’m only saying its much more popular overall.

As someone who doesn’t like nearly everything that Secret Hideout has made (including SNW) I can confirm that it certainly seems that SNW is better received than Star Trek Discovery.

LDS is the best Trek in decades and the first of anything since Voyager went off the air that made me fall in love with it again. Show definitely deserves to go seven seasons and I hope it gets it.

That said I was sure it would be cancelled after the first season! 😂 To go five is an amazing accomplishment but I want to see our lower deckers go as long they can. I love this show to death and all the great characters. We’re with you Mike! 😎🖖

It’s better than TNG. It’s better than DS9. It’s better than the Sopranos. In fact, it’s the best TV show of all time. If Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz were alive, they would be regulars, starring as Brad Boilmer’s parents.

I specifically said it’s the best show since Voyager went off the air, not before guy.

My favorite shows in order are TNG, DS9, VOY, LDS and PRO. Never seen Sopranos but heard good things. What’s with the bitter snarkiness? I have never gotten on anyone’s case who don’t like the show and respect them for not liking it including my own girlfriend and coworkers, so why do you have to come off like a jerk just because I happen to like it? Is it OK that I can enjoy something you don’t?

If you can’t just disagree with me without being a jerk about it then please just ignore me. I don’t like talking to people like you and would normally block you but can’t do that here. I have asked others here and other boards to ignore me for that reason if I can’t just block them. I have zero issues with people’s opinions but I hate when people have to be jerks to others and put down people or their posts because they don’t like the message, good or bad.

Yeah, man, that was really uncalled-for. But don’t let it ruin your day. 😀

Don’t take to heart what The River Temarc said. He’s a good guy honestly but a bit cynical at this point lol. He has been pretty snarky with me too in the past any time I have overly praised a show and has basically accused me of being a blind and over eager fanboy who is easily impressed when it comes to all things Star Trek. He never said it that directly but that’s always the gist lol.

I never taken any offense to it because I know he’s not TRYING to be offensive, just honest about his take (and in some instances he’s not completely wrong lol). And doing sarcasm is not always easy on message boards because it can come off confusing or even insulting.

Maybe you and Michael are right and I’m overreacting. I just hate when people get attacked or belittled for just having their opinion. If he just told me LDS sucks and was the worst show since Baywatch Nights then I would’ve been cool with it (no, comparing it to Baywatch Nights is still actually a bit too harsh. It’s the Star base 80 of TV shows).

Anyway attacking me because I’m fond of a show he’s not is why some Trek fans get the reputation they do. No one is saying they have to agree. You don’t have to take them down a notch for it either. But I’ll move on now. He’s never been snarky with me before so cool..

It’s first two seasons are certainly better than TNG’s first two

I know right? Very few Trek shows get it right out of the gate the way LD and SNW did.

I think TOS obviously got it right out of the gate. To a lesser extent DS9. But that’s about it.

Yes those are pretty much my feelings too. TOS had to get out right out of the gate because they didn’t have a franchise name to fall back on lol

TOS? That’s the worst trek show ever.

*Chuckles* Yeah, okay, whatever.

You need friends your age. This place is for adults.

I’ll be 45 in December.

Then act like it.

How do you act like you’re 45? You have a terrible boomer mindset. I’m going to Asia next year to party and travel. I feel sorry for you.

Well, we’re agreed on that, anyway. Probably 50% of the really good stuff was produced in the first year, 35% in the second, and 15% in the third. Things may have been different had Roddenberry/Coon/Fontana stuck around, but maybe not. Budgets would have been slashed in any case, and judging from the mostly lackluster work they did do the two Genes may have been running on empty at that point anyway. We’ll never know.

After airing a really good pilot I was having my doubts about DS9’s long-term viability during its first season, but man, did they pull it out for those final two episodes.

Obviously not every episode can be gold. But TOS’ first two seasons the good to bad ratio was over 50%. That’s just unbelievable to me. TNG had some really great episodes but their ratio was easily well below 50%.

While I don’t agree it’s the best Trek since VOY (you know I love me some DSC, PIC, and SNW), it would be a damn shame to lose LDS after a fifth season. The show had some shaky episodes its first couple seasons, but Season 3 was fabulous and Season 4 … every week it just makes me smile, I love it. I’m disappointed DSC was cancelled (I think a TRUE final season was owed), but I’ll be really ticked if they axe LDS after Season 5.

I agree as well. I don’t think LDS is my favorite of the new shows (it would actually be PRO), but the show is still very strong now and it looks like they are very much in their groove. I have liked every season and season 4 is better than season 1 and 3 (I still think 2 is the best) so it would be disappointing to see it go so soon. Especially since I’m also pulling for a movie (on P+, but still a movie!!!).

Normally with 5 concurrent shows the following statement would have more weight but LD is my second fav behind SNW.

It’s shocking that LDS is anyone’s favorite lol, certainly mine. It has really impressed more people than I think anyone thought when it competes with SNW in fan impressions.

Yes agreed. It’s like Star Trek with a Family Guy vibe too it so it caters to more than just one market if you give it a chance.

No… It definitely doesn’t have a Family Guy vibe. Well… Perhaps current Family Guy as the show hasn’t been truly funny for many seasons now. Certainly not FG of a decade ago.

Yes there is an article on another site that mentioned when LD first came out fans were hate watching it and making YouTube videos of face palming themselves but today LD has gotten the rep of legit Trek. I love the show too and I want it to go 7 too.

Comedy is what TNG is for, keep Lower Decks as the TNG series and divert as much as you can into restoring Strange New World to some exploration in the final frontier greatness we saw in Season One.
Transfer for example whoever decided the Disco 1701 TOS bridge has too many colors and too much visually stunning and decided to monochrome it to Lower Decks.
Maybe make this Legacy, have it where the Lower Deck crew gets assimilated during the events of Picard and then they end up on the Titan / Enterprise-G.
“Mariner: Reporting for duty Captain Seven of Nine… I guess I was Five of Eight but I don’t like to really think about that time I helped to blow up the Excelsior…
Seven of Nine: Yes,I had a similar experience where I helped assimilate a whole civilian vessel in the Delta Quadrant.
Picard: I was the transmitter, now I’m your new Doctor!
Mariner: Okay….I’m uh, going to go lower decks now…. at warp speed”

You should probably give up trying to write “comedy”


Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, this series’ was the most — something.

If it’s five and done, I’m good with it.

“I can live with it.”


I want to be able to watch season 4 on Prime but they aren´t streaming it there or anywhere else in Sweden. Much harder to show support when that happens.

You’ve probably checked but can you get it on SkyShowtime? It looks like they have folded Paramount+ in to that.

SkyShowtime doesn´t have it I´m afraid.

Not according to JustWatch.com, and I can’t spot it on SkyShowtime’s frontpage either. But then again, I don’t have an account here, so could someone confirm this?

Lower Decks was a big reason I kept with Prime Video, however, just before Season Four was about to start, they pulled Season 3 away from the catalogue – and then simply did not start airing Season Four at all. Very frustrating! Especially because there’s no info about this anywhere.

From what I gather, most of Europe isn’t seeing the show currently, well, not in a legal way at least?

Lower Decks is currently the best show out of everything airing now and potentially announced or wish-listed to be airing in the future. If we lose it, modern Trek is going to lose a voice I’m not confident it would get back for a long time, and would be much less interesting on a whole. A shame.

5 seasons imo is good enough for a show even an animated one like Lower Decks and i fully expect for SNW to end at 5 seasons too. Though It is sad to see Paramount having money trouble and having to cut shows to save money.

Look at Discovery for example the show was a major hit for Paramount (remember the only reason the show is ending is because Paramount needed to cut costs) with each season being a ratings hit for the service with millions of viewers worldwide and ushering in a new era of Trek shows. If it wasn’t a success from Day 1 then SNW, Lower Decks, Picard etc wouldn’t exist.

Imo we should be grateful for all the modern era shows (and all past shows). Yeah sure some of the modern shows might not be what some fans want.

For example i think SNW is a good Trek show not great but good and while i find it doesn’t live up to the same quality set by Discovery and Prodigy which imo are the best shows of the modern era Trek i don’t hate it nor do i hate any Trek show for that matter. I criticize episodes of all shows but there is no hate.

No Trek show should have hatred aimed at it. Heck the whole point of the Federation in Star Trek and the message of Trek it’s self is to embrace what makes us different from one another and not to fear or hate those differences.

The fandom should also try to live by the principles of embracing not only our diversity but the diversity of the shows too and how some are quite different from what came before and that is a good thing.

The fandom is filled with nasty little people. Sadly most smart fans choose to keep away from fandom.

I’d argue Picard would have still existed because that show has a huge built in fan base from TNG but I totally agree about the others.

Picard basically exists because how many people screamed that Discovery wasn’t ‘Star Trek’ enough and that people were just generally tired of more prequels and wanted a post-Nemesis show. The irony about all the shows post-Discovery is they all went out of their way to do the opposite of what that show did lol, ie, the Klingons.

I certainly know DIS is liked by many people and yes it was successful enough to get other shows on the air. But clearly they know the show put off many fans because every show after it tried harder to emulate old Trek and less like what DIS was doing. SNW is the perfect example. It’s a spin off of DIS but is a radically different show in every way in tone, style and format. And yes, once again, the Klingons. ;)

That makes sense. And I can see how the style and format of SNW (even though it is a spin off of Discovery) is a direct 180 of DIS. The issue for me with DIS has never been just about the Klingons or even how much everyone cries and is in melodrama constantly. I’m all for different. But when you break canon SOOOOOOOO drastically to me that is not only doing something different, it’s practically spitting in the face everyone who came before you. Honestly if someone else wanted to make a new 32nd century show and erase all the burn and emo madness DIS established, it would still be breaking canon but I’d be totally cool with it. I hate it THAT much.

This is why we’re best friends on these boards man! 😎👍

Discovery didn’t feel like Star Trek at all. It was too busy trying to be edgy with the Orc Klingons and making everything feel like it belonged in BSG universe not Star Trek.

The show destroyed canon. And then they tried to fix their horrible mistakes by throwing it in the 32nd century where apparently crying is a big part of Alpha Quadrant culture now. Even Zora gets emo and she’s the ship’s computer. That’s what that ship does to you.

The show is just sooooo bad and seems to get worse every time they ‘reboot’ it.

Honestly, if LDS is cancelled and Legacy isn’t greenlit. Leaving us with just Discoverse SNW, Starfleet Academy and the Section 31 miniseries, I’m gonna leave the franchise for a long while until the EPs inevitably change hands.

Not worth the headache. This will be the first time in my life as a fan I have said that. Matalas and McMahan has kept me going, bit if they go? So will I. Team Kurtzman stuff just doesn’t work/is up to scratch. Why put myself through that dross? I always have 1966-2005 Trek, LDS and PIC S3 (Hell, even Prodigy). Not to mention books, games etc. That’ll do for me.

Kurtzman is the guy who gave you Terry Matalas and Mike McMahan. You may not care for his creative decisions, but he’s basically the “Rick Berman” of the modern Trek era. There is no Matalas/McMahan w/o Kurtzman.

Paramount and the execs are truly in charge, Kurtzman is a yes man with very little vision and just hopes for the best, hiring people that will do the job/creative planning for him. Universal’s Dark Universe should have been a HUGE red flag. But as Kevin Smith one said, you fail upwards in Hollywood.

Matalas and McMahan both built up their own teams and got people involved that understood the franchise. Which in turn made Kurtzman look better, even though you can tell he’s clearly peeved how people responded to PIC S3 compared to his own pet projects. Hence no Star Trek: Legacy, even after the biggest fan response since the Trek golden age.

Kurtzman, unlike Berman, isn’t very creative or a great visionary. I bet he just has a dart board in his office with terrible pitches. He also keeps giving his buddies like Akiva Goldsman free reign. Even though they are terrible (Batman & Robin, anyone?).

But let him plough ahead with Academy and Section 31, may end up being the final nail in the proverbial coffin.

Oh, really? I trust you have inside knowledge as to what goes on backstage at this franchise that would allow you to make those kind of declarations as to exactly who is responsible for what, and with such confidence? Including your theory that Kurtzman is delaying “Legacy” out of petty spite, which is obviously preposterous for more reasons than I have time or space to go into?

And in the case of Rick Berman, you’re just wrong. He executive-produced two largely very mediocre seasons of TNG before Michael Piller was hired and the show began to find its footing. I don’t hate on Berman, which was a common fan sport in the ‘90s, but he’s obviously no creative. Piller in turn hired people like Ron Moore, Brannon Braga and Jeri Taylor, and started the Open Submissions policy for scripts, after which the show finally became a bonafide success with audiences and critics. The two or three episodes Berman had a sole writing credit on were. . . not good. I trust he was a capable administrator, though some things RDM wrote on his blog when Piller died would call even that into question.

Even before Star Trek Discovery was made I was fine with no more Trek. There was a lot and also much of that was very good. I have TOS, Enterprise and all the movies readily available on disc. After watching what has happened to Trek by CBS/Paramount I am even more secure in my thought that no more Trek wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing. Yes, new Trek productions sounds great. But I have no faith in Paramount to find quality people to make it at this point.

Cool Story bro…

I think one of the many problems with current Trek is that it’s someone thought it was a good idea to give the nerds the boot, and attempt make Star Trek mainstream for the normies.

No one likes nerds. It’s a proven fact. Thank goodness they got the boot.

I question they are even making it for the “normies” either.

Yeah this is a downer for sure if next season was the last, but no it wouldn’t be surprising either. I was the one who said over and over DIS was probably the first to go since it was the oldest and Paramount was obviously hemorrhaging a lot of money on these shows. A show making it to five seasons is basically a dinosaur in the streaming world so wouldn’t be a shock if LDS goes next, which I said is possible a year ago.

But hopefully that won’t be the case. Unlike DIS which I just think is not a good show and frankly won’t miss it, LDS is only getting better and better IMO. This season has been great so far. So I’m still pushing for my 7 seasons and a movie!!!!!

But I suspect McMahan will still be making Trek in the future even if LDS is done like a LDS spin off or even a live action show. Hopefully things can settle down at P+ and the show will continue for at least a few more seasons.

And in streaming 5 seasons is only 50 episodes. The equivalent of two normal seasons. It used to be that shows aimed for 100 episodes.

Entertainment isn’t the only place that is lowering expectations of product. I remember when baseball teams had 4 starters who were expected to go at least 7 innings. Now they have 5 starters who barely go more than 5.

Less is more.

Yeah I do miss the old days at times. Not every show needs to go 100+ episodes but it would be nice to go more than 50 or 60 as well. But streaming just doesn’t have the same mandates as network TV or even cable.

My guess is a large contributor to that is cost. Early on there were some good shows with short seasons that spent tons on production value. So of course that is going to get copied. It’s almost as if they thought the early good shows were good because of high production values. Nothing could be further from the truth. I’d wager most fans would be thrilled to lower the budgets and get better writers and more episodes.

It kinda sounds like McMahan has already tried to get S6 greenlit but is getting nothing but silence back.

As he should. This show isn’t really going anywhere. It’s time to start planning how to end it on a high note.

Hey Tiger2, as you know I am not the biggest fan of LDs nor animated shows in general including even TAS (although I do like Prodigy for some reason). That said, obviously there is a market out there for animation. Surprising to me, Futurama is somehow still around and shockingly it is a massive streaming hit. LDs needs to find a way to somehow tap into that success. If it can, then it might be around for 10+ years and maybe much more.

Yeah Futurama seems to constantly find a new life twenty years later lol. But again LDS might be fine and go on to more seasons too, no one really knows it future yet. P+ could just cancel it tomorrow like it did DIS and PRO. The fact it hasn’t yet still gives hope it can go on beyond season 5. McMahan himself is saying the show can still keep going, so it isn’t a done deal yet.

But yeah it can probably go on to multiple seasons some place else if its cancelled. Netflix seems like an obvious choice but after the dust up over DIS they may be out of the NuTrek business for good. But P+ is just a smaller site in general and the money isn’t there for these shows to go on forever. It could be a bigger hit in other places but I guess you can say that about most shows on P+. But I’m not ready to write its obituary yet.

That’s the thing. More often than not the good ones go longer. Archer is ending its run on it’s 14th season right now. (Side note: While the last few seasons have been dogs they seem to be going out on a high note. It’s back to being pretty funny again. Not as funny as their first few but still good.) Rick & Morty is soon to start their 7th. Futurama as noted here is still going strong. (I’d like to watch but I’ve no intention to get Hulu) Now McMahon fears 5 will be it for his. And honestly, if that is all he will get he should feel VERY fortunate to get that many. His show just isn’t even close to being as good as the other animated comedies out there.

I can see Lower Decks getting a sixth season. Hell I’d prefer it get the seven it deserves, but I can see a sixth season pickup for this show. Not only is it amazing Trek, it’s not as expensive to produce.

Also, consider the following: Strange New Worlds is getting a third season, we know that. We also know because of the two strikes it’s going to take longer to materialize. And, because Strange New Worlds is a top 10 streamer, it will very likely get renewed for a fourth and probably fifth season. We also know Academy and the Section 31 film are “approved.” Let’s also consider the possibility for what some have dubbed Legacy. If that were approved today it would still be nearly two years before we see it.

Lower Decks is, in my opinion, great Star Trek that stands on its own, but it also just seems obvious to keep it going.

Honestly everything IMO is up in the air till the actors’ strike is over.

I see P+ not willing to re-new contracts after five seasons. This is what really ended Disco. P+ is a business after all and it makes no sense to pay more for an old show, when you can make a new show for less. SNW will probably get 5 seasons also.

What is this? Fans calling paramount for doing the Same Thing as with Prodigy to lower Decks, because its the “better Business descision”.

What are we? Fans of Star Trek or Fans of paramount Investors making Money?


Lower Decks ist a succefull Show. It should go as far as intended and not get botched for something that doesn’t exist yet.

Fans of Star Trek or Fans of paramount Investors making Money?”

Oh, there’s plenty of the latter here.

I like Money.

On another website that reviews each and every episode of Star Trek shows, I noticed that the comment section has very different numbers of responses depending on the show. When Discovery started it had around 300 comments per episode (ST was back!). The last season had about 100 – 120 comments per episode. SNW is at 200 comments per episode. Lower Decks averages 23 comments for season 4 so far. (Prodigy’s comments are in the teens, but it’s not the target audience anyway)

It’s not conclusive, but I think it’s an indicator in terms of viewers engagement and maybe even number of viewers. While Lower Deck is cheaper to produce it doesn’t seem to lure many new customers to the service. It’s nice if a show is cheap to produce, but if it engages only a handful of viewers it may still not be money well spent.

Interesting. But I would think “engagement” is something amazingly difficult to quantify. For the record, I’ve noticed comments on LDX on this site have dropped dramatically as well. But as you said, it’s not conclusive of anything really. It’s like the mistake of assuming Twitter (Or rather X) trends are indicative of how the country is going. It’s not and it never was. Not even close.

Comments are not a streaming metric. And Discovery got so many comments probably because it divided the fanbase and was controversial. In short, it gave nerds something to argue about online. I don’t think anyone is arguing about Lower Decks.

I wouldn’t take that seriously. There’s tons of people that watch trek and never engage with the fandom. Myself, I’ve watched every trek episode and movie made and I would never bother to go to a convention.

Exactly. This is strictly a numbers game. Paramount isn’t going to cancel a show just for the fun of it; they’re going to do it because there is probably not enough fans who watch and support it.

On YouTube, Lower Decks video comments numbers in the high hundreds and sometimes over a thousand where I usually go to discuss the show.

Take a look at the comments section for Trekculture review video of the latest episode:


It was only released today a few hours ago and already has nearly 700 comments. For some reason this board and others like Trekcore doesn’t discuss the show as much but on social media it’s discussed just as much as the other shows if not more at times; although Picard season 3 had the highest of all the shows and would sometimes surpass 2,000 comments.

Spoiler alert, TC loved the episode! 👍

Honestly I agree that 5 years is a great run in the streaming age but I get wanting to do 7. The bigger point in my opinion is that Prodigy (and Batgirl before it) set a HORRIBLE precedent! We’re past the point of just cancelling shows and straight up pulling past content. For tax write offs?!?! How does the IRS even allow this? Because I’m pretty sure those who worked on these projects are getting taxed still for their compensation for their work. Regardless if you like Lower Decks or not, no one should support the idea of a Prodigy round 2 happening.

I like Lower Decks, but I would rather have the live action shows survive, if push came to shove.

No offence, but I wouldn’t miss either of the animated series. to add fuel to the fire, I have no interest in a Section 31 movie, animated series, pantomime or school play, either. Bring on Legacy with a more episodic format. These season-long story arcs are really passé.

No offense, but Legacy needs to disappear and die before it gets born. There is no future for Star Trek in catering to a soon to be dwindling number of nostalgia ridden Gen Xers.

Truth !

Actually I think the only thing that is keeping these shows on the air are the nostalgia ridden Gen Xers lol. I have asked this question many many times, but no one ever answers it, but does anyone personally know any NEW fans watching these shows? I just don’t see it and I don’t know anyone personally. They almost don’t exist outside the online world. Yes, I know SOME new fans are watching them, but they aren’t the ones keeping them on the air either. Of course I agree Trek needs new fans, I say that all the time, I just don’t think that’s really the case.

The biggest irony being people kept saying shows like Discovery and Prodigy were ‘market growers’ and now they are both cancelled. Apparently LDS is the show for the hardcore old fans and PRO was designed for the new and younger fans for the next generation of fandom. But PRO was cancelled after just one season while LDS made it to five. That says it all and I’m a bigger PRO fan myself. But yeah, this is just the reality.

But I would love to be proven wrong and I support ANY show that is actually bringing in new fans regardless of my personal taste. But we have very little proof any of them are, the biggest being all the shows keep bringing in legacy characters which is meant to kowtow to old fans, not new ones. It’s why Picard basically became TNG season 8 in its third season and SNW has become a quasi TOS show after just two seasons.

I don’t see anything TOS related on SNW. Unless you do the 6 degrees of separation thing. (In this case 4) It’s much closer to Star Trek Discovery in look and feel than anything else. Star Trek Discovery appears to lift a lot of it’s look from the KU feature films. The KU feature films featured TOS characters.

Disco is the savior of Trek. Can’t wait for Star Trek Academy to carry the torch Disco started.

Lower Decks is the best thing CBS/Paramount have produces since we’ve entered this new era of Trek


This isn’t about losing LOWER DECKS in order to gain LEGACY; that’s not the way this works.

LEGACY may well never happen because it would be fantastically expensive in a time when networks & outlets are working aggressively to economize.

When TREK shows are being cancelled – or are being ended – and when cost cutting is occurring across the board – and when showrunners are repeatedly imploring viewers to engage (these aren’t McMahan’s first comments re: viewership) – holding out for LEGACY just might be unrealistic.

If LEGACY does happen, it will be due to perceived demand…but that may or may not matter in light of the aforementioned economizing. And concerns about broader appeal. Let’s be real – a “Captain Seven” show doesn’t have the same pull as a show anchored by a legendary actor.

LOWER DECKS going away wouldn’t free up enough $$$ to bankroll LEGACY; wildly different cost points. If LD goes away, it will go away. And so may other series if we don’t watch them – they may go away even if we *do* watch them – as The Powers That Be clearly have a metric they’re trying to satisfy, and it’s not apparent what that actually is. They may simply be looking to put more eyes on their shows than diehard TREK Fans can alone provide.

All shows come to an end 5 seasons is good enough. I can’t wait to see its replacement.

I’d be OK with LDS wrapping at five seasons and a movie, but I’d want the creatives given the option of creating a new Trek show, animated or otherwise.

It would be tragic if Lower Decks gets cancelled after appearing triumphantly on SNW. It’s such a fan favorite show, but ultimately it’s hard to know what the bottom-line looks like at Paramount+. Star Trek is in decline once again as we retreat from the streaming golden era, so it’s hard to feel optimistic going forward. But if we get 5 seasons of LD, I consider that a success, it’s been such a gift to TNG+ fans in particular.

Hear Hear! 👍

This is great news! Please Mike, don’t tease us…

::fingers crossed::

I love ld and watched it every week. Now I can’t afford another streaming service so I have to dl it. P+ is also a bit much here.