One of the big surprises in the series finale of Star Trek: Picard was the appearance of John de Lancie as Q. In an exclusive interview with TrekMovie’s All Access Star Trek podcast, the actor talked about that post-credits scene and his expectations and hopes for a follow-up series.
De Lancie on Q’s return from death
One of the biggest reasons Q’s season Picard 3 finale appearance was a surprise is that the character had died in the season 2 finale. De Lancie talked about how this storyline took him by surprise as he was working on the second season:
“As time went on, I began going, ‘Am I dying?’ I don’t understand how that’s possible. I’m not averse to it, I’m just concerned about it because we’re talking about an audience that is exceedingly on point about the show [laughs]. They don’t miss anything. And I believe what’s going to happen is that they’re going to be watching and this and turn to the person that they’re watching the show with and say, ‘But wait a minute, how is that possible? He’s immortal.’… And I was thinking the same thing. And if that’s where we’re going with this, it seems that Star Trek should do what Star Trek does best about philosophical issues—and I don’t know of a bigger philosophical issue than dying—that we should deal with it. It’s not like a soap opera where all of a sudden a character doesn’t come back.”
The actor revealed how he learned Q’s death may not be the last word just after he finished filming his final scene for season 2:
“When we finished that scene, all of a sudden there was an explosion of applause. The lights went on and there were 30 or 40 people there. People who had come to watch this last scene between Patrick and I. Patrick made a little speech. I made a little speech. And [season 3 showrunner] Terry [Matalas] came up to me at that point and said, ‘You’re coming back, and I figured out how to do it.’ And I went ‘Great!’ I had the presence of mind, after so many years in the business, to not say, ‘How? What do you mean? Explain it to me.’”
Patrick Stewart as Picard and John de Lancie as Q in season 2 finale (Paramount+)
Took post-credit scene as setup for spin-off
The actor then explained that a few months later he was back on set in a “fantastic” new costume, and his series finale scene with Jack Crusher (Ed Speleers) was shot in just half an hour. De Lancie confirmed he knew it was a post-credits scene and he was well aware of the implication:
“Well, most post-credits scenes are [a setup for something else], so I took it as that. In reading it I went, ‘Oh well, there it is! There is the baton. There’s the jump-off for the next show.’ I don’t think at this point, it will happen. There was a fun period of time that it looked like it could happen. But then there was the writers’ strike, which took a lot of people’s attentions away. I don’t think that they expected that season 3 was going to be as good and as well-received. They had already decided on another show. They were already moving in another direction. But it was certainly a really valiant and well-appreciated finale to The Next Generation.”
If Paramount ever did decide to move forward with the spin-off series (generally referred to as “Star Trek: Legacy”), de Lancie had a couple of thoughts on what Q’s role could be:
“My involvement has always been as a catalyst, as a disrupter, as a character that pushes the envelope and makes everybody hopefully learn something. That’s one. Two, I think that the character works best—and also its position in Star Trek works best—if what I bring are big philosophical issues. I think that’s when we do the best work.”
Jack Crusher meets Q in post-credits scene of Star Trek: Picard series finale (Paramount+)
There will be much more from John de Lancie about his time on Picard, the Trek franchise, and his collaboration with his son’s virtual autograph company Fan Fair Signatures in the next episode of the All Access Star Trek podcast, which will be available on Friday morning.
Keep up with news for the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
And…there it is.
In the current streaming environment they won’t greenlight another Trek series for several years. SFA is up next, with TV movies, another year and probably more of SNW.
This ship sailed.
Yea, they are out of money. There won’t be any super bowl commercials either. Nothing
TOO LATE! that commercial has been SHOT!
Yeah I was being sarcastic. Maybe you are too lol
Unfortunately true!
Maybe if they sell it to Facebook or something things will change but I don’t see anything major anytime soon. 😥
Facebook?
Joke! 😉
I’m just saying they seem desperate to sell off the company to anyone willing to meet their price. So far looks like no one is yet.
It’s hilarious how everybody keeps saying they’re out of money but here we get this big expensive super bowl commercial. Fans have no clue.
Even when operating in the red there’s still a budget with priorities that have been set. Though cash strapped and with the Super Bowl airing on CBS, a Super Bowl spot for Paramount+ was always going to be a priority.
I don’t think anyone is claiming Paramount is on the verge of being homeless lol. I just think they mean they don’t have the same level of disposal revenue as the bigger studios and has to scale back on some things versus others, ie, Star Trek as an example.
I’m pretty certain when Tom Cruise wants to make Mission Impossible movie, they have no problem coughing up the dough for it regardless of price. Same for the Superbowl because they know it’s going to bring in tons of money so they go all in.
It’s just more about priorities and cutting back on less important ones which many companies are doing right now.
Thank you bro! 🙂🖖
That’s all people are saying lol. I said this on the other thread and literally gave the Taylor Sheridan shows as an example.
They will spend as much money as possible on those because those are the priority right now and they think is worth investing more money for. Because they probably bring in a ton more views and subscriptions.
Star Trek isn’t as big of a priority anymore or we would still have 5 shows in production like we had in 2021 and not just 3 like today. They are obviously scaling back the budgets for those.
Technically it’s four when you include Prodigy but Netflix is running that now and not P+ so we have to see what happens after second season. But the fact that got cancelled after just one season also speaks volumes.
No one is saying Paramount don’t have any money lol. They just can’t give money to every thing and has to prioritize what’s the more important ones.
That’s why there has been three Mission Impossible movies made in the last 5 years but zero Star Trek movies in the same time frame. They don’t have $200 million to give to a shaky bet over a sure thing.
This is just common sense.
“That’s all people are saying lol. I said this on the other thread and literally gave the Taylor Sheridan shows as an example.
They will spend as much money as possible on those because those are the priority right now and they think is worth investing more money for. Because they probably bring in a ton more views and subscriptions.”
Actually since there has been no new Star Trek for months and the P+ was already paid for I finally watched some of his shows. I watched Lioness first because that was the only one that really interested me.. But I liked it. I didn’t know Zoe Saldana and Nicole Kidman can drop the F bomb so much lol. And then after that I watched the original Yellowstone show which several people here told me to try. Yeah it was good. A little too dark in places and I hated nearly everybody lol but I see why it gets the hype it does. And then I watched all the other spin offs, 1923, 1883 and Bass Reeves (although its not part of the same universe). I still haven’t watched the Tulsa King or Mayor of Kingstown yet, but both on my list soon.
I didn’t know they had more shows in development until I saw your post. But I can’t blame them. Bass Reeves was supposedly one of Paramount+ biggest shows last year. To be honest, I didn’t love that one, but apparently many did lol.
I think the problem with Star Trek, and I’ve said this before, is that they have basically maxed out the number of subscribers after so many shows on now so it’s turning into a net negative. They can make a new show, but it’s not going to bring in a ton of new eyeballs, just keep the old ones and that’s the problem long term. But that’s the problem other IPs are having as well. Marvel and Star Wars isn’t bringing in a ton of new people either. It’s been reported both Loki season 2 and Ashoka bought in less views and subs. But yeah they still have a heavy base of watchers but they have probably optimized all the people you can get who will sign up just to watch these shows.
So I can understand why they are not moving heaven and earth to get the Legacy show on because the reality is it’s not going to move the needle for new subscribers. But here is the secret, I don’t think any Star Trek show is at this point. In other words they have who they have. Now it’s just a matter of sustaining it.
But with the Sheridan shows, I think there are new subs for them because there is a lot of hype with him. Now that may not last forever but right now it makes waaaay more sense to throw throw $20 million an episode for his show versus that for Legacy as an example. No one is really watching Trek shows but old fans and all the old farts on this board lol.
But for his shows, he probably has a bigger demographics and bringing people to the service who wouldn’t bother. That’s why they are developing multiple shows and we’re just getting Starfleet Academy. Now that may reverse itself in the next few years and Legacy can be possible, but yeah not right now.
In that case maybe they should get Taylor Sheridan to create a Trek show :)))
That’s a good idea! Maybe he can attract more than 40 year olds to give it a shot.
I’m sure it’s crossed their minds.
You’re on fire, Tiger! That’s it exactly. His shows pull in more viewers and have broader appeal. 10.5 million viewers watched the season 5 premiere of Yellowstone on cable. When CBS aired it, 6.6 million viewers tuned in.
That’s Live+ so we’re talking before delayed viewing and streaming is even factored in.
When SNW made it’s broadcast debut back on Friday, 9/8/23? 1.9 million viewers at 8:00 p.m., 1.67 million viewers at 9:00 p.m. Friday night is not the biggest night for TV but those numbers were behind encores of Will Trent and 20/20 on ABC with similar demo’s.
I’m sure there’s an exec at Paramount wondering what would happen if they put Taylor Sheridan on Star Trek.
“When SNW made it’s broadcast debut back on Friday, 9/8/23? 1.9 million viewers at 8:00 p.m., 1.67 million viewers at 9:00 p.m. Friday night is not the biggest night for TV but those numbers were behind encores of Will Trent and 20/20 on ABC with similar demo’s.”
Wow that’s actually a bit surprising. Actually not that much lol. As I been saying Star Trek just doesn’t do all that well in the mainstream. And I remember when they ran DIS entire first season on CBS during the pandemic and I think it got a little above 2 million every week. Maybe a bit more or a bit less but around there. Game show reruns got bigger ratings that same night.
And I remembered someone saying on another thread DIS did that poorly because it had been on a streaming site for several years and got lots of eyeballs there. I literally used Yellowstone showing on CBS to show as an example that was total BS because Yellowstone had been around much longer and as you said had HUGE views on cable already. And yet it landed on CBS and easily got more than three times the numbers DIS and SNW obviously got. It did so well they are now airing season 2. And my guess is seasons 3-5 will probably air there too.
Yellowstone is a huge mainstream show that attracts all demographics. Star Trek unfortunately does not. And all you have to do is see how poorly it does when put on the biggest network on television in prime time. All this talk about the new shows grabbing ‘new’ viewers is just smoke and mirrors. They put these shows on a network that is free and I don’t think any of them would last a season.
So yeah not a surprise Sheridan is getting more money and attention for his shows on P+. He’s proven that his shows are a proven commodity in streaming, cable and the network. Star Trek just doesn’t fare as well.
We all love Star Trek, but we have to face reality and that it just has a much lower ceiling in terms of viewership and interest beyond the hardcore fans.
Bro I didn’t even know they ran SNW on CBS for a night?
But not surprised either. That network isn’t really known for sci Fi and as we all been saying Star Trek is still more niche. SNW is a great show but only Trekkies cares about it at the end of the day.
Maybe if they played the entire season like they did Discovery and the word of mouth would’ve eventually picked up for it. I guess we’ll never know and it never picked up for Discovery when it ran there like you said.
But Discovery is a horrible show and few people ever rave about it. It’s shocking it got even 2 million views lol.
To further my point, Prodigy was on traditional TV again with Nickelodeon. It’s the first show back on TV since Enterprise. It got cancelled after its first season. I love Prodigy I have stated it’s easily my favorite of the current shows.
But once again, it’s just more proof how hard it is for Trek shows to compete when A. You put them on linear TV and B. You expect them to find a new audience away from the tried and true.
So I can’t be accused of being ‘biased’ as it’s my favorite show lol, I’m just stating reality, nothing more.
It’s scary when you think about it but there has only ever been one trek show to survive the traditional TV model and that is VOY. And even then it was only under VERY special circumstances.
There was a lot of hype for a Trek show being on a new network back then and there was just way more Trekkies back then versus now. I don’t think Star Trek would’ve done very well on the bigger networks but it could be a star on something like UPN, at least for a little while.
It’s funny to see shows like Enterprise getting cancelled and how it was a big shock to a Trek show getting cancelled after just four seasons.
But as Denny C and Tiger2 pointed out Trek shows are just a blip on network TV the few times they put them on there. I remember how angry I used to be that Les Moonves wouldn’t put a new Trek show on CBS because people say he hated sci fi. Now I realize he knew it wasn’t going to be very successful. Maybe at the beginning, but when the curiosity faded it probably would be cancelled after a season or two, especially with those budgets.
Thank God for steaming. It’s probably the only place something like Trek can thrive today and it’s still nowhere close to how many people were watching it in the 90s. In the 90s I knew plenty of people watching it and how I became a fan myself. Today, it’s a very different story.
I still don’t get why it doesn’t attract more young people anymore like back in the day?
I totally agree as per usual and it’s even funnier when you think about the irony that a show about 4 Star Trek nerds (Big Bang) can last 12 seasons AND end only because a cast member wanted to move on but actual Trek can’t survive. It’s like completely backwards.
The real world outside of Paramount+ is a challenge for Star Trek.
Very well put, Tiger. I wish I’d seen this before I responded to your last post, ha! As for Taylor Sheridan, he pretty much responsible for ressurecting the Western genre on television. The only show I have not seen yet is Lioness, but I’ve pretty much loved the rest of what he’s put out there, including his films. Trek can’t even shine his shoes right now, in my view, Somewhat sadly. Ironic because TOS was essentially a western in space. ‘Wagon Train to the Stars,’ and all that.
Actually I have to correct myself a bit when I say only old fans are watching these shows when it was reported Prodigy got into the top 10 for kid subscribers on Netflix. That’s obviously great news and it’s attracting the demographic it was meant to and bolds well for a season 2 and possibly season 3. :)
Unfortunately maybe the answer is just give all the Trek shows to Netflix because that’s where everybody is at lol. I’m joking, but…
That’s it in a nutshell. You’re deep in the red but you have to keep investing to generate revenue which involves prioritizing expenses.
The bitter irony of that Paramount+ spot is that 800 people at Paramount are going to lose their jobs across nearly every division of the company beginning that week or the following.
Yeah I mean it’s totally not that. I mean it’s not like they have filed for bankruptcy. They obv still have operational costs and what is even more important is if they want to sell to someone for a good price they HAVE TO spend to make themselves look like a valuable asset. But that doesn’t mean we can ignore the dire straits they are currently in either. Heck in streaming, save for Apple and Netflix, everyone is doing bad right now. Paramount is just doing worse.
You said it my friend!
Paramount isn’t the only one in bad shape either but probably the worst shape. They have to spend regardless because that’s how you attract the buyers and show they have the content that is worth buying. That’s exactly why they have to be choosy on what they spend on and not a shock it’s mostly on things that brings it the most money.
Ya and minus talent cost I have to believe Yellowstone shows don’t cost what Star Trek shows do but yield much higher results too. It’s really just business.
Yes, exactly. It’s about their priorities, is all. Trek just doesn’t have the draw of NFL, Mission Impossible or Taylor Sheridan productions, like it or not.
Exactly lol.
This is just common sense. 👍
if they weren’t running a Paramount+ spot there would be a number of unwelcome headlines. “Rumors Swirl After Paramount+ is a No-Show on CBS for Super Bowl”.
Paramount Global still has a marketing budget. Bob Bakish has his golden parachute all packed and ready to go. The janitors are still cleaning the place up. Funded productions are still underway. P+ is still hemorrhaging cash. Legacy isn’t greenlit because the VC people quit shoveling money into this venture to create content. Paramount Global is one of those companies where the value of its assets is worth more than the value of the business. Whoever buys it will sell what they don’t want, and keep the rest.
Netflix just ponied up five billion for WWE Raw – just one IP. Someone will get Trek, and run with it. It’s not a question of if, but when.
It would be hilarious if Facebook bought Paramount lol. But I don’t Facebook wants to be in the entertainment business like other tech companies like Apple or Amazon did. And Facebook has its own set of problems right now even if they still have more money than God.
Way too much of a headache. Apple is the only tech company which has had any success in this space and they’ve limited it to Apple TV+.
Oh yeah I can only imagine obviously. I think tech companies are realizing that it’s not easy to get into those spaces regardless how much money and resources they have. I think people forgot Yahoo tried to get into the streaming business not that long ago and failed miserably. Google/YouTube seems like the next obvious one to try their hand at original content but it seems like they are just happy distributing movies and shows to rent or buy and not making any. And it’s easy money.
Sure it’s easier when you can just buy someone else’s content and IPs but they still have to make it into a success which is easier said than done when Paramount’s current owners are having issues with it and been in the business for decades.
Poor Yahoo. Heck, Poor YouTube, too. They tried with Cobra Kai, the show moves to Netflix and becomes a huge hit.
I had no idea Cobra Kai was originally a YouTube show. Wow. It’s pretty funny all these studios and companies set up all these streaming sites trying to be the next Netflix but in the end, Netflix still rules over all of them.
I’m not saying it will happen, but I wouldn’t be shocked if it eventually got the license to make more Star Trek if Paramount+ doesn’t survive the next few years.
I’m hoping Prodigy does well enough on Netflix to get a third season. And if it does well maybe it will get them thinking about licensing Trek shows there if Paramount+ ultimately folds.
Let’s be honest Trek would get way more viewers on Netflix since nearly everybody still has that. Paramount+ just doesn’t have the subs to make it any bigger than what it is and probably a big reason many people still don’t know these shows exist.
Meta. Deep pockets, no debt.
Joking aside, I’d like to see a sale to Apple. I think they could do Trek properly.
At this point, that would be fine with me…
Apple TV+ library footprint is smaller than other streamers but their quality of shows is much much higher IMHO
Very much agree with you.
I agree 100%. Two things would happen if Apple took over. First, you’d see more mature and well thought out stories and science fiction elements in the live action series — it would be more like a prestige version of Star Trek, and you won’t see any musical or animated crossover BS. Secondly, LDS would be quickly sunseted — that sort of low brow cartoon comedy offering would not be up to their standards.
Agreed! 👍
No, no, no, no, no. Enough is enough.
I’d much rather have a TNG continuation than a Discovery spinoff.
I would too, although I think of it more as a continuation of the TOS>TNG>DS9>Voyager timeline. I simply want the next iteration of that.
I think most people would lol.
Most of the fandom agrees – Post-Picard is where the franchise should be planted
I mean, Discovery is Post-Picard – by about 700-800 years.
Yeah, that’s what he’s saying – series that occur “post-Picard.” So right now, that includes the Academy series and DSC.
So, DSC and the Academy series then — cool, we agree — it should be series’ that occur well after Picard — “post-Picard” as you put it. Yep!
Don’t we all
Would love to see more Q in the future. Picard season 2 sucked major donkey balls but de Lancie was amazing as usual and didn’t miss a beat after so many years.
Definitely want to see him again, Legacy or something else. He is still one of my top characters.
Legacy does not exist. Never has and likely never will. The fandom is just weird now in that people talk about it like it’s actually a thing.
Hence where I said ‘ or something else’. 😎👍
The great thing about Q is that he can show up any where, any time, in any show. Heck they could put him in the next Kelvin movie if they wanted too. Q has so many possibilities which is why it’s so frustrating that PIC S2 squandered it so much.
Exactly! That’s why Q is so fun to have because he can literally be anywhere at anytime. He’s just a lot of fun and I loved his interactions with Picard and Janeway.
I like to see him go a round with the highly emotional Discovery crew in the 32nd century.
Putting him in a Kelvin movie would also be fun too It would actually give me a reason to care about it. 😉
…
And with this news, the hundreds of millions of TrekMovie dot com commenters who would’ve rather d**d than see a Legacy spinoff breathe a sigh of relief.
I think there are more like 20 commentators here. 😂
Maybe 30 on a big news day or after an episode airs though.
And it’s completely OK that people don’t want it and say so. This board is so weird lol. People get upset because people say they want to see something but then others get upset when others they say they don’t want something.
It’s bizarre to me all around. I’m going to say what I want to see AND don’t care to see. You have the right to disagree with me. Others should do the same. It’s why message boards exist lol.
I didn’t realize I was replying to one of your posts. Sorry. Didn’t mean to engage with you specifically.
No you didn’t. I was just replying to your point!
And it’s a good point. That’s why I replied to it.
Reading my post back I think you thought I was attacking you. Far from it, I agree with your point. But I’m OK if people don’t want it either even though I do want it. There are tons of things people want that I really really don’t and say so. So I can’t get upset about it lol. And this is why we have message boards, correct?
It’s all fair in love and war! 🙂🖖
And they are just TV shows. None of it matters at the end of the day.
“ None of it matters at the end of the day.”
Not that much, no. As we speak, the country stands on the precipice of a constitutional crisis, and an election that will determine for decades whether it remains a functional (albeit flawed) democracy or not. Compared to that, the fate of a space opera franchise is pretty small beans.
Yeah sad but true although what’s been happening is perfect fodder for shows like Star Trek to take on in the future. I remember when Simon Pegg came out and said Krall was suppose to represent Trump in Beyond. I really disagreed with that because I still had an ounce of sympathy for Krall at least. And Trump has only gotten much much worse since.
“an election that will determine for decades whether it remains a functional (albeit flawed) democracy or not” — oh so you’re one of the clairvoyant alien species? which one — the wormhole dudes? cool
— Oh, you’re a member of that Andorian-adjacent species that lives in caves and is blind from birth? That’s cool, I guess.
I’ve been saying, geez, the damage has been done already, given that we’re stuck with these warped and malignantly mean and nonsensical Supreme Court newbies for decades, but you’re right, it can get even worse, and it will if MAGAforce (apologies to Hal Needham, Barry Bostwick, Persis Khambatta and most especially Michael Beck) has its way with democracy.
I really wish SNL had some kind of open-door submission policy, because I think a MEGAFORCE spoof that squeezed their Trump stand-in into lycra/spandex on a flying motorcycle, coupled with Tom Lehrer-esque lyrics over the Van Halen song, could potentially do more damage to the Trump campaign than a lot of criminal action borne out of desperation.
Yah, what can you say? Clowns to the left of us, jokers to the right, here we are.
Except that the clowns aren’t hell-bent on taking down democracy, even though their “throw money at every problem” solutions frequently don’t work — they are still way, way more preferable to the jokers on the right taking power.
I was referring to the challenges we’re facing on multiple fronts (including the SC) and not the literal Left, such as it is in the United States. I’ve lived long enough to remember the days when there was arguably enough insanity to go around on all points of the political spectrum, but these days (for all the both sides-ism of major media) that’s clearly not the case.
It can get a lot worse — people need to wake up by November.
I don’t mean to take away from the huge crisis we are in here in the US. but let’s not say nothing else matters either. Because if we all do that and say everything we love goes away and we shouldn’t give some of our time to it because nothing else matters then this life is going to end up sucking a whole lot more than it already does.
Definitely agreed, else I wouldn’t be here. But by the same token it doesn’t hurt to do the occasional reality check and note that being able to worry over things like whether we get more Trek or not, and argue if it’s good Trek or not, has been a First World privilege we’ve long taken for granted, and maybe we shouldn’t.
Totally fair too!
Agreed, because at the end of the day, DSC is still an underated Trek series, and LDS is still an overated middle school-level, cartoon sitcom.
;-)
Well said.
“And they are just TV shows. None of it matters at the end of the day.”
LOL couldn’t have said it better. But I can’t imagine my life without Star Trek since I been watching since the age of six. But it’s fun to debate things as long as people don’t get too triggered or obsessed over it. Luckily that’s never been an issue for Trek fans. ;D
I can’t imagine my life without Star Trek now… which is the opposite of how I started. Before I couldn’t imagine sitting through just one episode much less an entire season.
Some things do change! 🙂
If they made one, I’d watch it. Generations is s**t, and I watch it. However, I haven’t staked my eternal inner peace and well-being to talking this into existence. This ship sailed two years ago.
Phil no one has lol. People are just saying what they want like every fan. And dude, it’s just like all the Trek movie articles, no one would even be talking about more movies if TM didn’t constantly post them here 7 years on lol. But once they do, people give their opinions either way.
If they didn’t post it, no one would be talking about it. But my guess is that’s why they post it lol. It is a message board after all, that’s what people do on it.
I’ve stuck my big toe into a couple other Trek sites of late, and there’s still a lot of bewilderment as to why Legacy isn’t in production – after all, they signed petitions, damn it. I’d venture, for the moment, that there are fans who are restless to their core that Legacy isn’t happening.
I get your other point, with the passage of time the posts will fade. QT Trek is a good example. A couple years ago when it came up, comments were basically “make it now” with a bunch of half baked rationale. Now, when mentioned, it tends to be a muted response with some wondering “yeah, what ever happened to that”?
The Tarantino movie is the perfect example. I still see people talking about it here every time there is a new article about it and there are still people pushing for it and wanting it even though it was never a real thing either. Sure they wrote a script back in 2018? Tarantino himself killed the idea back in 2019.I don’t think Paramount ever once said they had planned to even make it. They just wrote a script and as we are well aware by now making a script means absolutely nothing of it gets made or not.
Even if it was possible, that hasn’t been the case for four years.
But people HERE are still pining for it. The same HYPOCRITES who are telling us to stop talking about Legacy. 🙄
This only proves the point that fans will always push for something even if it’s not going to happen because we’re passionate about it. That’s how it works.
The Legacy idea isn’t a year old yet. Maybe in four years people will stop talking about it but not now. 😉
I wanted PLANET OF THE TITANS made for decades after it was abandoned … but then I finally got to read most of a treatment several years back and realized, geez, I put a lot of time into wishing for a terrible story!
Titans reminds me of Jodorowsky’s Dune — the story about the movie not getting made on both is probably so much better and more interesting than either of those movies would have ended up being. Jordorwosky never even read Dune — lol.
The thing about TMP is that as much as I complain about it, I’ve always wonder about ways to have improved it.
But once I read that Kaufman treatment, I realized that he was going in the wrong direction (compared with the synopsis of the two original two writers’ work), going further afield from Trek but not gaining anything while trying to break new ground. Instead of tapping into the mythology that Kaufman seemed to talk about it, it seemed more about tapping uninteresting and unappealing tropes.
Agreed.
“But people HERE are still pining for it. The same HYPOCRITES who are telling us to stop talking about Legacy.”
LOL so true. ;)
This hypocrite still wants the QT Trek movie — so sue me! LOL
It just means people are passionate about things they want to see, that’s all. The internet is a big big place, you will find people still pining for things from 30 years ago (and never coming back) or just a dream project they will hope will happen like the Tarantino movie you mentioned, even if the chances are zilch to none. But this is how fandom works, how it’s always works.
People are begging to see things like an Enterprise season 5, a DS9 revival, a TOS reboot, a Khan show (ugh), and on and on. Maybe some of these things will happen someday, maybe they never will. But it’s what some fans want regardless and it’s nothing wrong with that (except the Khan show…OK I’ll stop).
I remember hearing constantly a long time ago by various people that the prime universe was dead once the Kelvin universe showed up and we will never see the TNG era again or a post Nemesis show so STOP TALKING ABOUT IT….yeah.
And now of course the tables have turned and now some of those people are keeping hope the Kelvin universe may happen again some day even though many believe it too is dead in the water (for the record I’m not one of those people, I do believe we will see that universe again at some point, it’s just a matter of what that will be…eventually).
As for Legacy, it will subside if it never happens the same way the Tarantino movie ultimately did.
Nothing symbolises the utterly awful writing on Star Trek Picard better than Q. Make a big thing about his death at the end of S2 with a heartfelt emotional goodbye scene….
…. theeeen bring him back 10 episodes later.
So dumb.
Buckle up Emily because believe it or not I agree with you! ;D
HOWEVER, two things to consider.
A. It’s Star Trek, this is just what they do. They set up TWOK just to have this big emotional goodbye to Spock and let Nimoy retire just to bring him back in the next movie. While it’s not quite the same, they manage to bring Data back who we were told 20 years ago lol that was it. But yeah, things change eventually.
B. This is probably the bigger point and I really think there was just a huge clash of creative differences between Akiva Goldsman who ran season 2 and Matalas who ran season 3. I don’t remember if I cited this theory here but I have in other places and looking at how disjointed both seasons were was basically the issues between he Star Wars sequels with TLJ and TROS. It really does come off the same way. We know how different Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams visions were different from each other the point the movies either ignored or just rewrote what the previous did and why they have the reputation they have right now.
I think the same thing happened here and Matalas just didn’t like where Goldsman went by the end of season two because like Abrams, he just ignored or completely rewrote everything that happend in that season to the point of confusion.
Remember what season 2 set up by the endd:
Picard and Laris became an item (which was a HUGE arc in season 2 and literally the last scene of the season at that). Just completely forgotten about after the first episode in season 3. They couldn’t even be bothered to tell us if Picard remembered who see was at the end of season 3 lol.
The entire Jurati Borg clan. Again, HUGE set up in season 2. All they got was a passing mention in season 3.
That entire new conduit thingy that was suppose to bring in some mysterious new species the new Borg was now guarding (and basically the same idea at the end of season one..sigh). Again just completely dropped in season 3.
Elnor being in Starfleet now. Who? They literally tweeted after season 3 ended that he was still alive after the Borg take over because fans wanted to know what happene to him lol.
Raffi and Seven relationship which was another big deal in season 2 and dropped in season 3. Let’s be honest though, hardly anyone liked it.
And finally Q. Yeah I just don’t Matalas liked he was killed and retcon that completely.
The ONLY thing Matalas followed through on from season 2 was Seven getting promoted into Starfleet. That’s literally it. And my guess it could be something Matalas requested himself to set her up in season 3.
So yeah, you’re not wrong, but both seasons were just a mess in terms of any continuity and consistency. I think Matalas just had a particular story in mind and he was willing to do whatever he wanted to keep it intact. My guess is if he had it his way, there would’ve been no Borg at all in season 2 so they could be a bigger surprise in season 3 but that’s what Goldsman wanted.
And this is why while I liked Picard season 3, the show overall was still a hot mess. It all just feels so disjointed between ALL the seasons just like the SW sequels feels like.
What did TROS change from TLJ apart from Rey’s parentage? And even then, you could argue the same for the OT. Vader killed Luke’s father in ANH. No he didn’t, he IS Luke’s father (which was only decided on during the filming of Empire). Luke kisses Leia in Empire, no they’re brother and sister in Jedi (again, only decided in the third film)
I roll my eyes whenever people call the sequels disjointed. As if blowing up a death star in Ep 4, running around doing not much in Ep 5, then blowing up another death star in Ep 6 is any better.
TLJ follows on from TFA perfectly. TROS is a bit all over the place I agree, but it’s a myth that it U-turns TLJ. It’s just plot development.
I get that there was a clash of creative vision between Matalas and Goldsman but it speaks to the hole that Star Trek is in that these things happen within the same tv series, over and over, same on Discovery. What is Kurtzman doing?
Emily you can not be serious lol. There are entire video essays on Youtube stating all the differences. It’s argued daily to this day how much the movies ignored or changed on SW message boards. Go to one of those. I don’t have the energy to go through it all.
I’ll site the biggest change is bringing back Palpatine. Abrams wanted Snoke to be the big bad and that Rey and Kylo Ren was going to ultimately take down together, ala, ROTJ (no one has ever accused Abrams of being original ;)). Kylo Ren was going to get a redemption arc as Vader did and turn good. But Johnson didn’t like that idea, killed Snoke and wanted Kylo to be the ultimate villain in the end. But Abrams didn’t like that idea either lol. So he kept to his end game of Kylo’s redemption arc but since Snoke was already killed brought back Palpatine to replace him which was never remotely hinted at until the third movie.
So yeah, I mean they had major clashes on everything and it turned into a mess. The only thing I think they agreed on was keeping Han dead lol.
And I’m not disagreeing with you over Star Trek either. Both PIC and DIS were a mess lol. I’m not defending DIS either, but the subject was about PIC, not that show. And while I happen to like the last season of Picard more but as a whole it was still a mess when you try to connect it to Picard’s overall journey in season one. I think Matalas just didn’t care and since people hated both seasons it made it easier to do what he wanted. I’m still shocked he kept in Picard being a synth lol. I honestly thought that would be the biggest thing downplayed in the season.
Tiger, I definitely agree with you that there was some sort of ego-clash of the creatives on Picard from the beginning. Even going back to the first season it seemed like from the statements Michael Chabon made that he wasn’t given enough freedom to create the season fully as he wished or envisioned. I think there was a clash between everyone and even Patrick Stewart himself who wanted to have quite a bit of creative control as a producer but backed away after he realized that the first two seasons sucked quite a bit. This show needed a clear, singular vision from the beginning and everyone agreeing with that vision and putting their egos at the door to make sure that vision happened on screen.
I think like season one of DIS, there was probably a lot of drama with PIC as well. I think most people agreed it felt like too many cooks in the kitchen in first season because they knew how important the show was at the time and everyone was throwing in ideas. And I also agree Chabon probably got railroaded because he was new to making a TV show and that probably worried a lot of people if he can do the job or didn’t like his ideas.
This is solely my speculation, but he was probably hired thinking he was going to be the sole show runner and do it until the show was over after season 3. I assume he had a long term vision for the show as well but knew it wasn’t going to work out and bounced. They announced he was leaving the show before it even aired, not a great sign lol.
And when Goldsman took it over fully he was probably way more focused on SNW and why that ended up being the dog show it was. It was obvious like Matalas with season three, he had no interest to follow anything up that was set up in season one. But maybe because of the poor reception it got from fans.
But overall the show just now feels like a soft reboot every season kind of the way DIS does. I remember an interview Kurtzman gave saying they didn’t use the TNG characters until the third season because it had to be ‘earned’. Like what on Earth is he talking about??? How did they earn that given the first two seasons were a hodge podge of random disconnected stories and poor character development? That show had so much promise but badly squandered.
I couldn’t tell you how excited I was for Picard. Finally after sitting through tired prequels we are finally getting something I been craving for since 2001.
What can go wrong? 🙄
Picard managed to make some of the worst DIS episodes looks like works of art. There is an episode where Picard and Guinan are sitting in an FBI office for a full hour trying to convince an agent he’s not an alien.
Did you seriously throw millions of dollars at Patrick Stewart to come back for this?
I don’t think PIC season 3 is perfect, but it at least tries to be Star Trek in the best ways possible. I don’t know what the show was at times in its first two seasons. The people who were making it didn’t seem to know either.
Are you genuinely citing “Youtube videos” as an example of balanced, level-headed, intelligent discussion that I should seek out? The same YouTube that thrives on toxic negativity? Please. YouTubers can come up with hateful videos about ANYTHING if they set their mind to it, even the most popular things in the world can be torn apart if the algorithm demands it.
How do you know Johnson wanted Kylo to be the big bad? The same big bad that quite clearly has a real connection with Rey and refused to kill Leia? Are you just inventing things to suit the online narrative like so many do re Star Wars? As I said, the original trilogy shifted direction with every single film, but people never mention that. It’s called plot development.
You not being able to remember all the ways TROS supposedly U-turned TLJ is typical of anti-Star Wars sentiment online. Whenever I ask anyone why did they’d like, say, TLJ, they can never actually give me an answer. They must have forgotten what YouTubers told them to think I guess.
TLJ should have ended the SW main movie series. ROS felt like a forced-in, superfluous add-on.
I love TLJ, and can’t stand ROS. I can’t stand the first two prequels either. For me personally, my SW series starts at Ep 3 and ends with Ep 8, and I ignore the remaining 3 crap films.
Good to know, thanks.
Great points — and the freaking hilarious thing is that that last two eps of Pic S3 is basically the second half of ROTJ — it’s the same freaking story and character roles!
Matalas blew up the Excelsior in Season 3 because Elnor was assigned to that ship. People speculate online that he hated the character. I find that funny, and probably true.
LOL that’s hysterical. I can’t remember Excelsior biting the dust in the season but I can see why it would ruffle over a few Elnor fans. I don’t know if Matalas hated the character obviously but he clearly didn’t see him as a priority either. He could’ve put him on the Titan with Seven, so yeah. I don’t think Matalas really thought that much about any of the newer Picard characters except Raffi I guess.
I’m not sure if anybody liked the character of Elnor. Even before season 3, he was basically written out of most of season 2. Maybe the character was Chabon’s idea.
That is hilarious. 😂
Poor Elnor. I always liked him actually.
HA I never had a problem with him but honestly he didn’t resonate with me one way or the other.
The writers never really knew what to do with him is my impression. The actor seem to do a good job with the limited time he was given
Oh and I know someone is going to bring this up and that Matalas help produce season 2 as well. Yes he did, but Matalas stated in an interview with the Shuttle Pod cast that he only helped set up the season writing the first two episodes (and still the best two easily IMO) but had no creative input beyond that. He helped produce the first half of the season before leaving to set up season 3 but Goldsman was completely in control of the story from the third episode on….and it showed.
Facts, my friend. So easily disregarded.
Yeah, especially on this board at times lol.
Picard S2 was the lamest Trek since Enterprise (pick any season).
I would definitely love to see Q back as well. It doesn’t have to be Legacy itself but I always thought it would be fun to see him show up in the 32nd century and taunt the Discovery crew and make fun how much everyone cries on that ship. He could show up on the Starfleet Academy show at some point. Not holding, but this is Star Trek…
He can show up in Star Trek Academy
Here’s hoping!
That would be too clever for the current regime.
The same regime that brought back Trek to life and made it a success? This isn’t the 90’s time to move along home and get with it.
Les Moonves brought Star Trek back to life and All Access was his only motivation to do so. What would have been cancelled after a single season on CBS had plenty of room to breathe for an upstart streaming service treading water. The various showrunners essentially inherited a franchise that couldn’t fail, where money and ratings were not going to be an issue.
Those days are over, with Star Trek pulling in fewer viewers than “Halo” and the entire “Yellowstone” franchise on Paramount+ with the success of Star Trek being measured much differently now than just two years ago, evident by Discovery unexpectedly having to move along home and get with it.
Star Trek peaked in the 90s and despite flirting with expanding its base with films in 2009 and 2013, the franchise on television is essentially where it was when Enterprise went off the air in 2005.
Sadly have to agree with all of this. I think Trek peaked in the 90s as well. The new shows doesn’t seem to be grabbing anyone new except the same people who watched it in the 70s,80s and 90s mostly.
The first two JJ verse movies definitely grabbed new people but they stopped caring long ago and why Beyond failed.
And they spent way too much money on them since two of them couldn’t even get up to $400 million. Those movies were really meant to be something that grabbed the mainstream audience into loving Star Trek like the MCU did. That obviously didn’t happen because they have been completely ignored since Trek went back to TV/Streaming and focused on the prime universe again which most fans wanted back since 2009.
NuTrek just doesn’t seem to be pulling in a lot of people although I personally think it’s been just as good as 90s Trek lately. But there are still other fans who really disagree with that and still refuses to watch.
Was I supposed to read all that?
Move along home.
Q in Discovery would have made a lot of sense and one or two intentional lines of dialogue would leave everyone questioning exactly what they had watched over five seasons.
“Alternate timelines. The mirror universe. Time travel. Concepts embraced by beings with such limited minds. Never knowing where you truly are. Or when.”
The way these producers think, they’ll probably do “Q: the Prequel.”
You just gave them their next streaming movie lol.
Or we’ve all known him for years creating all those nifty gadgets for 007.
HA!
That was already made in 1967 and called “The Squire of Gothos”…
;-)
In my own head canon, that wasn’t Q, it was Q’s son from VOY. And it was Q and Lady Q that stopped him and appeared in front of Kirk.
Not bad!
Great news
At this point maybe Paramount should get Taylor Sheridan to do a Trek show as that seems to be the only way a new Trek show would come after the ones already in development.
Star Trek needs to go into hibernation for 5 years, the quality of the shows is not improving.
I did not even realise there was a scene with Q in series 3 of Picard because I never made it to the end of the show, I struggled on and gave up I think either after episode 9 or about 10 minutes into episode 10, the show was awful IMO it blatantly ripped off so many other superior Sci-Fi shows and was so implausible I had had enough.
I lost interest in who Jack Crusher was, was sick of the 0.5 dimensional character Vedic? The idea of the Borg & Changelings working together was stupid, the concept of a Federation day where every starship is in the same place at the same time was ridicolous, Star Fleet would have been defeated years ago if that was how they rolled.
I thought Q was amazing in Season 2 of Picard, but that show was even worse than Season 3 (although starnegly I finished that show, must have been because of Q, ie DeLancie held my attention where as the guy who played Jack Crusher did not)
I will watch this final scene to see Q, I am glad he lives on somehow. One thing writers should never do to characters they DID NOT CREATE is kill them off, especially when they are such bad writers as the people who make shows like this.
Obviously it’s Paramount’s decision, but my sources have intimated that following Picard Season 3, Kurtzman is a bit threatened and insecure over Matalas; so Legacy is not something that he’s likely to push.
That’s exactly my thinking, Kurtzman saw the outpouring of love towards Matalas and S3 of Picard, with even people like the RedLetterMedia crew praising it. That really rattled Kurtzman’s control and job IMO. Hence spitefully did not greenlight Legacy. His loss.
Well if The Captain, Temporal Oral and their sources say it must be so, who am I to argue?
LMFAO :-))
Your “sources”? Well that’s about as credible as any other multitude of “people who know” that have been making claims that never panned out. However I do prescribe to the possibility that Kurtzman is the insecure, vindictive type looking out for his own interests, which is the Hollywood way of doing things.
His ass told him so
Your sources? Temporal Enema, perhaps? Lol
Matalas is a dream showrunner. They gave him less cash for Picard S3 and he delivered a show that came in on time, on budget, was successful with critics and fans and viewership levels that exceeded expectations.
SNW comes in at a reported $7 million. If you’re an exec at Paramount and you’re looking to save a few million per episode, someone like Matalas is going to be able to pull it off. That’s when someone in Kurtzman’s position is going to feel a bit threatened by someone like Matalas.
Of course he exceeded expectations. When Pic S2, arguably the worst season of Trek in history, is your most recent comparative baseline, you or I could write and produce a better S3, and people would say, “Denny C really exceeded expectations.”
Stuck with endless cycle of prequels, then? Star Trek is dead.
Yeah Legacy is about as real as the 4th JJ film or the traveler spinoff with Wesley Crusher, as in its a mirage. Vaporware at best unless it becomes real.
my theory on Q was that his whole species were evolved humans from millions of millennia into the future and Q was a long lost Picard and a temporal archeologist
“I don’t think that they expected that season 3 was going to be as good and as well-received.”
That quote from John de Lancie is so illuminating about the “powers that be” in Star Trek (Kurtzman & Goldsman probably). They pretty much let Matalas do what he wanted since they felt the Picard show was in the gutter after the horrible first two seasons that they just did not care. They were satisfied about securing the Next Gen main cast, and just left Matalas alone but with very little extra money. You can tell the Season 3 budget was much lower than the first two since it mostly a “bottle-season.” It reminds me of how Paramount & Berman left Ira Behr alone to do DS9 since they were focused on Voyager and TNG movies in the 1990s. And we get better Star Trek because of it!
I always felt that the best Star Trek happens when the budget is lower, time is short, but you have a great cast of actors and writers that care about character and substance. Story over spectacle.
And it is sad we will not get Star Trek: Legacy.
I’m glad de Lancie had pretty much the same reaction to Q’s storyline as I did. It made not a whit of sense. His death didn’t make sense (couldn’t they at least have offered some explanation?) and neither did his inexplicable return. I’m also still pissed that the final scene of the Picard series DIDN’T EVEN FEATURE PICARD.
I love that De Lancie seems to totally get what (at least I believe) makes Q work so well. Cause that’s exactly what happened on TNG and DS9 for a hot second but not at all on VOY which sadly watered down the character quite a bit.
As for his *return*, it never bothered me. Even if Q did *die* in S2, we don’t know what death means to a Q. More than that, the Q are a race of essentially Gods that can exist out of place and out of time and still have a total understanding of space/time. S3 Q could have been a younger version of Q that simply knew of his *future* fate. Just my $0.02 there.
I enjoyed his Voyager appearances because he had a completely different vibe with Janeway than he did with Picard. She saw his bullspit from the beginning, and didn’t let him manipulate her.
To me, just an example and sad reminder of how badly season two was written. Absolutely awful season, I’ll never watch S1 or 2 of PIC again. Conversely, seeing de Lancie at the end of S3 I thought neat, a nice bookend which was both enticing and a cool callback to days of yore.
Sidenote, he was great on the little stint he did on Breaking Bad. Sublime performance.
I loved him in Breaking Bad as well. He was heartbreaking.
The fans need to make Star Trek Legacy happen.
Nobody wants anymore junk from Kurtzman Trek like this Starfleet Academy series.
They have already been burned by dumpster fires like Discovery and Strange New Worlds.
LOL
Definitely agree with you about Discovery lol. But SNW at least comes off decent to me. Just curious why do you not like that one? There hasn’t been any crying on that show yet.
SNW is ok but that’s because everything else has been so bad. Still has far too many canon issues and odd acting/dialogue choices. It’s good out of a bad batch. Plus, is another bloody prequel.
Yeah the canon issues brings it down for me a bit as well, but I always make clear I don’t judge the show on those things overall. And when I just try and accept the show as it’s own isolated thing, I do really enjoy it a lot more. But I know not everyone (who has problems with the canon stuff) can do that. ML31 certainly can’t lol.
As for it being a prequel, it’s the only one I thoroughly enjoyed out the gate at least. Can’t say the same for Enterprise or Discovery.
No more TNG nostalgia wallow please.
Not all setups should be pursued (see: the Back to the Future sequels).
I like Part 3. But i’d also be fine with BTTF being one film.
Monday, February 5, 2024–7:45 am CST
I read a couple of great articles about Star Trek: Picard. And a nice article about John de Lancie. I hope they will be another “Star Trek” series. I hope they will be “Star Trek: Legacy”
Terry Marvin (Dallas, Texas)