Abrams on Howard Stern: Talks Strike, Shatner, Cloverfield ‘Sickness’ And More [UPDATED: Abrams on Opie & Anthony Too] January 24, 2008
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: 1-18-08/Cloverfield, Abrams, Shatner, Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback
Star Trek producer/director JJ Abrams called in for an interview with the Howard Stern Show and being that it was Howard Stern, questions ranged from “is your wife hot?” to “did you bang Jennifer Garner?” to “how much money do you make?” to “is Tom Cruise nuts?” But he also took some serious questions about the writers strike, people getting sick watching Cloverfield and, of course, Star Trek (and Shatner). See below for some select quotes and the full audio interview.
[UPDATE: Abrams also called in to Opie and Anthony Show…details and audio below]
JJ Abrams quotes
On writers strike
If you are a writer/director you are striking on the one hand but also, if you are lucky, working on the other hand. I am directing this Star Trek thing and so there have been days I have been striking and picketing in the morning as a writer, and then I go ‘I got a be a director’ and I walk into the studio. So it is really screwed up.
On if he will go over budget on Star Trek?
When we did MI3 I made sure we came in under schedule and under budget. It matters to me. I don’t know why I care so much….part of it comes from working in television. When you work for the WB [Felicity] you had no more than what you were given, there was no such thing as ‘over budget.’
On Zachary Quinto (new Spock)
That guy is so great, I love that guy…He is the greatest. It is freaky how great he is.
On Shatner
Stern brought up Shatner and played a clip of Shatner on his show saying that he was ‘disappointed’ about not being in the film. This resulted in the following exchange:
JJ: I love Shatner. He is classic, he is the greatest
Robin: But Leonard Nimoy is in it
JJ: The thing is that Shatner filmed a scene in one of the movies where he died.
Robin: but Leonard Nimoy is in it
JJ: Because Spock didn’t die. Spock lived on.
Howard: But a young guy is playing Spock
JJ: We go back, there is a different time frame, but the idea that Shatner is not in the movie for any other than the fact that his Kirk died is ridiculous. I would put him in the movie in a second. I love that guy. I used to love him more for the couple of Twilight Zones he did then even Star Trek.
Gary: In one of the movies didn’t Spock die and then in another movie they brought him back.
JJ: Yah, but given what the story was it made sense for that story. But given our story it would feel like — even though it is Star Trek and science fiction thing, we want this thing not to feel like fanboys who are just shoving this guy back in because we are fans of his. We want the story to be better.
Gary: so you are going to cover every time frame in Star Trek history except the time frame that Kirk was alive?
Howard: I guess Shatner is a major pain in the ass to deal with
JJ: It would be distracting if you are watching the movie and all of a sudden we come up with some way to cut to Shatner. He said to me he didn’t want to do a cameo. And I thought that is fantastic and I appreciate that, but A. it is not the story we are telling, B. your character is dead, and C. if we put you in, he is so well known for some much else as well….
Howard: [cutting him off] Of course, you don’t have to explain yourself.
On Cloverfield ’sickness’ and sequel
Stern took a call from someone who said “My wife and I saw Cloverfield and she vomited half way through it…it was awesome.” This prompted Robin to mention that there have been reports about people getting sick during the movie. [see article at MedicineNet]. Abrams admitted that some people were getting sick and that it was due to seeing the amateur-style camera on the big screen. He recommended that pregnant women and those on some medications should not see the movie. Another caller commented that the film was disappointing and that it didn’t answer any questions. To which Stern added a question about a sequel. Abrams replied to both:
There may be. I know that the studio is probably going to want one and we just need to make sure it is the right thing. I am sorry you didn’t like the movie, it is definitely not for everyone and I especially apologize if you threw up on yourself.
On Tom Cruise
Abrams wouldn’t take any of Stern’s baiting on his friend Tom Cruise, but did deny that Cruise had tried to covert him. Abrams did confirm TrekMovie.com’s earlier report that Cruise and his daughter Suri visited the set of his Star Trek movie.
Listen
For more listen to the entire Abrams interview from the Howard Stern Stern Show:
For more on the Stern Show, goto to Sirius Radio
UPDATE: Abrams on Opie and Anthony
Abrams called into to The Opie and Anthony Show (who also had Cloverfield star TJ Miller in the studio). For the most part they talked about Cloverfield, but did talk a bit about Trek.
Abrams on if Kirk is a womanizer in his Star Trek?
He really wouldn’t be Kirk without some of that
TJ Miller talked about how he visited the set of Star Trek and that the film “was going to be amazing from what I saw.” Abrams also ribbed him for when he talked to Chris Pine he pretended to be some big time actor, but was kidding, but Pine thought he was serious and ‘was a big jerk’ which Abrams thought was hilarious.
Comments»
Well, it looks like Shatner is DEFINITELY NOT in the movie!
Abrams is clearly a classy guy. Good luck to him!
I’ll be sure to wear a hoody to Cloverfield in case someone in the row behind pukes up…
Agreed. Class act. IMO, we are finally hearing more fleshed-out reasons as to why Shatner wouldn’t be right for this story. Sounds legit to me.
I still don’t buy the reasons (though I personally don’t care if Shatner is or isn’t in the movie - I don’t feel it matters): for me it’s just economic stuff (i.e. too much to pay) mixed with his ego.
I’M TEMPTED TO LISTEN TO THE AUDIO CLIP…
… but I gave up on the Howard Stern crew years ago. You think the message boards HERE can be harsh??? They all sound like a completely miserable, nasty bunch. Just couldn’t even stand their voices anymore.
I’d say when a film more than doubles its budget on opening weekend, the studio will want a sequel. Nice to see success coming to a guy who by all accounts seems really nice and down to Earth.
Rich
#6, if you gave up on Stern years ago, you need to listen to the Sirius version of his show. You’d find it way better than anything he’s ever done.
Damn Rick Berman for killing off Kirk, we’d have Shatner in this movie otherwise!
I always hated the fact not that Kirk died, but HOW he died. Here’s a guy who has stood up to Klingons, Romulans, Tholians, evil alien world leaders, omnipotent beings, natural and artificial disasters, saves the world and the universe countless times over AND HE DIES BY FALLING OFF A BRIDGE?!?!?!?!?!?!?
I enjoyed the unusual way the story was told in Cloverfield, more a “you are there” effect, but my wife felt woozy coming out of the theater and was kind of disjointed for awhile.
Probably won’t be such a disorienting experience when watched on a TV.
Shatner wouldn’t be happy with a cameo? As usual his ego pushed him to want to dominate the latest movie!
Not to mention, one can only imagine how much money he wanted for his limited participation in the film.
His recent behaviour has eroded a tremendous amount of goodwill old time fans felt for him…………..SAD!!!
too bad Bill won’t be in it. But, JJ is right. He filmed a death scene where it would be very convoluted to get him in this movie.
Does anyone else think JJ looks like a young Kurt Russel?
My wife was also disappointed in the lack of questions answered in Cloverfield. I thought it was great, because you don’t NEED to know anything else but what the characters are feeling.
I’d LIKE to know where the monster came from, but that’s what comics/books are for.
How about the next movie being “Star Trek 12: The Wrath of Kirk”?
Maybe Cloverfield 2 could be the same movie filmed in a more traditional and structured manner. With answers, and without vomiting, I mean.
The folks complaining about Shatner’s absense and Cloverfield’s lack of answers sort of seem to be missing the point, generally. ‘Uh, we don’t get it”
@16
So, what IS the point then?
They should do a short with him after the credits. It could be funny. :)
Shatner not in the movies??? When did this happen?
JJ’s gotta be pretty well centered to go on Howard Stern in the first place. He’s lucky they didn’t have him firing hot dogs at lesbians. Stern is the sewer’s sewer. Still, sounds like JJ did fine. Some day, we’ll get a straight answer on Tom Cruise, but then again I really really don’t care.
youd have to explain alot to get Shatner in the movie……Kirk comes back from the dead…. and gains 50 lbs. Shatner would look rediculous on screen as Kirk at this time. And thats all anyone would think about if he saw it.
Cloverfield 2? With more traditional and structure? Does anyone remember what happened with Blair Witch Project and when they tried to do a sequel? I hope that they just leave it alone….
My dear friend had to sleep thru the movie in order to suffer motion sickness that she is prone to have with me when we did not realize the cam was wildly and constantly moved around. :(
Anybody heard anything about what approach ILM is taking for the film’s special effects? Sadly, as much as I prefer they build a real-time model of the Enterprise, I know that they will probably do it CGI (especially knowing that ILM shut down their model shop a few years back).
I know CGI is the favored approach these days, but I still think for scale and realism, a model looks better. That said, special effects artists are getting better and better at it.
I cannot wait (I am one of those who feel the Enterprise is as much a character as the rest of the cast– yes, I know that sounds a little dumb… remembering Scotty’s comment “if you treat her like a lady she will always get you back home.”) to see how she looks on the big screen.
I have a feeling JJ and crew is making us a movie that is going to knock our socks off!
“Damn Rick Berman for killing off Kirk,” 8. Wobo - January 24, 2008 - It was not just BERMAN! Shatner AGREED to the death of Kirk! I wish people would stop blaming Berman and co. for something that Shatner wanted! Shatner has an ego roughly the size of our solar system, he wont do cameo’s! Ha! He does half baked comercials! I used to respect him but over the years I have actualy grown to dislike him, why? Because he has become egotistical and arrogant and a hypocrite. If he aint the star he wants nothing to do with it.
All this talk of Shatner being in the movie reminds me of all the talk in the late ’80s about how Elvis faked his own death and is living in a trailer park somewhere. It culminated one night on the tonight show when Johnny Carson tracked down the very thin and aged Elvis who was indeed living in a trailer park, just so he could “put to rest any rumors that Elvis is dead.”
You’re dead, Jim. But we’ll always love you!
#24 “If he aint the star he wants nothing to do with it.”
In spite of your screen name, you sure seem comfortable going off over stuff you have no real knowledge of.
The director is famous for inexplicable happenings.
So, you can either believe him face value- no Kirk, which I definately do, or you can think, at the end of the film, much like 2001: A Space Oddyssey, there is Shatner… for no explained reason… he’s just there, in his santa claus uniform and he says something odd like “Butterbrickle is good on the knees.” Roll credits…
I’m sure they could have come up with something if O and K are as clever writers as they’re pumped up to be. Oh well. Shatner in Trek 12? Sad thing is, Shat will pass away and the greatest Berman F-up will go unfixed on screen.
However, I’m sure Trek 11 will be a good movie, even if it is a complete reboot.
#24
It was Berman’s idea of killing Kirk/Shatner off; therefore, he was to be goddamned!
Kirk is as alive now as he ever was. Every time you watch him on the screen or read his books, he is as alive as he was before Generations.
Kirk, the fictional character, is alive in our minds, the only way he ever lived.
Shatner playing Kirk now would be a joke. Let’s let Kirk live in our minds as he was…
am i the only person annoyed with him repeatedly calling this project ” that star trek thing “
No one in the theater I was in got “sick” from watching Cloverfield, not even my wife, who has epilepsy.
What a bunch of babys.
Besides if it bugs you, CLOSE YOUR EYES, stupid!
JJ has too much class for appearing on a show like Stern’s.
Stern’s an ignorant douchebag and proves it constantly by appealing to the lowest common denominator.
Now where’s the construction-cam bridge shot?
How can you not love that apology. “I’m sorry if you threw up on yourself.” Good times. Can you imagine Spielberg or Lucas saying that about one of their films? By the way, I did throw up in my mouth a little during Episode II.
have you seen this guy!!???
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=58437555
Arrrr…
‘Tis funny how we canna ever exhaust our conversation about Shatner…
To rememdy this, I am currently “re-mastereing” me won versions of TOS epsiosdes in which I digitally replace Shatner’s head with various other actors, including one of the Telly Tubbies… arrrrr… it be like therapy… like that device Tinky Winky… errrr… I mean Kirk was strapped to as Inspector Luger spun a lit wheel above him… arrrr…
Awwww… I still am entertained by Shatner and have me affections for the bloke… his strong Kirk interpretation helped sealed the legendary status of th’ show…
But enough. No need to keep o-Pine-ing about Billy Boy….
-9 Actually he “died” saving the Enterprise BEFORE he “died’” falling off that bridge.
He’ll never be dead. He’ll always be THE CAPTAIN!!!
If a sequel to Cloverfield is made, I hope it’s filmed in the traditional way!!
Abrams is SO right about how incredibly transparent and fanboyish it would look if they tried to fit Shatner into this movie. It would look like really bad fanfic.
The fact some fans can’t recognize that makes me VERY glad they aren’t writing for Star Trek.
34 what an idiot possin for a pic when hes signed the contract not to talk or take pics
Again, I ask the question: why did JJ simply cast Shatner as Kirk’s dad? That would have solved the entire quagmire of Kirk, while placing Shatner in the movie. I suggest you try to get this question answered, rather than focusing on the current string.
#19: “straight answer on Tom Cruise,”
*Straight* answer… BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
Given the rumors that have been flying about his orientation for years, you a funny guy, Cmdr.R!
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#30
I just watched Star Trek VI last night and not only was Kirk alive, but so were DeForest Kelley and James Doohan. And that was the last time we would see them, true to their characters. Whether Shatner appears in Trek XI or not, that doesn’t change the fact that the trinity of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy is already gone. That dynamic can no longer exist on screen as it once did since one of the key actors is dead. Sure, you could always put Kirk and Spock together, but McCoy was always a vital part of balancing out the other two by acting as the conscience of the captain and the humanitarian.
#27
That is pure genius. I think they SHOULD include that.
Did you notice … at one point during this interview, JJ attempted to use the lamest excuse that pops up in these very threads from time to time: having Shatner in the movie would be “distracting”, because he’s so well known for other things. Man, is that insulting! It’s the equivalent of saying Paul McCartney would be too distracting at a Beatles tribute show. Shame on you, JJ. GRRRRRR.
Berman - killed Kirk
Abrams - put nail in coffin
I hope to high heaven this puts an end to the Whither Shatner debate.
Everyone who’s been threatening to boycott the movie if he’s not in it can leave the building. . .
#41.
Oh, c’mon. Do we really need Tom-Is-Gay jokes? Aren’t they a) creaky and b) pointless? Can we NOT go there?
#40: Your answer is: “He said to me he didn’t want to do a cameo”
43 - Well, Paul would be distracting at a Beatles tribute show, since its a tribute show.
And also, since Ringo may not do it, and the other 2 have died, yes, Paul would be a distraction.
#19. Spoken like someone who knows nothing about Howard Stern or his show.
JJ was a great guest. He was honest, forthcoming, and funny. Star Trek is in good hands.
I’m distracted by the stupidity of the argument that Shatner’s presence would somehow be a distraction (sounds like a line out of Moonlighting)
This is a Star Trek movie. William Shatner is the most well know member of the Star Trek cast. If you said to me they were putting Madonna in the film… I would say yeah, that could be a distraction, but Shatner?
It’s time for Kirk/Shatner fans to face the fact that they never wanted Shatner and he will not be in the film.
This is colossal mistake for no other reason than it would have been cool/fun to see Shatner + Nimoy together one last time as Kirk and Spock. Please spare the argument that it would be “too fanboyish” to have Shatner in the film. This is a new Star Trek film we are talking about, not a new work of art from William Shakespeare.
#48 … Nimoy is in it. So your point is void.
#44
It is indeed ironic that this movie, a reviival of the original crew, will be the first post-Generations reference to Kirk’s death on Veridian III (whether stated or implied).
I am disappointed about the lost last chance to see Nimoy and Shatner together onscreen for a final time.
FORGET SHATNER ALREADY IT’S GETTING STUPID
#44-Why doesn’t anyone put any of this blame back on Shatner? I love the guy, but sometimes people act as if he had a gun to his head. Someone mentioned that if you had an iconic character that you portrayed, why on earth would you kill him off?
AND WHY IN GOD’S NAME AM I TALKING ABOUT THIS???????
Denny Crane would attract late-era-Shat-non-Trek BL fans to see him as Kirk.
I, for one, would be happy with or without the guy in the film. If he’s in, make it great. Tears will well up.
If he’s not, we can always remember his last speech before the end of ST6 (I do not) in which JTK passes the baton to a new generation.
Now we can take it literally.
#50: Shatner wanted to play Kirk. That means they would’ve had to invent a way to get him back from the grave, then somehow put that into the story (which is not centered around old Kirk and trying to resurrect him, so don’t use the Star Trek III argument) just so they can please the fanboys. I’m sure Abrams would’ve been more than happy to give him a cameo, and most of us would’ve been pleased, but Shatner’s huge ego stood in the way.
#50 “It’s time for Kirk/Shatner fans to face the fact that they never wanted Shatner”
I didn’t used to believe that, Ivory. I was taking JJ & co. at face value when they kept saying he might still be in it. But I do now. JJ’s excuses are piling up faster than tribbles dropping from an overhead hatch:
‘He died…’
‘The writer’s strike…’
‘He’d be too distracting…’
‘It’d be too fanboyish…’
Which is it???
#42–Excellent point. McCoy was absolutely essential to that unparallelled dynamic threesome.
#43–That’s not what he said. I think you misread. You are overlapping two very different points. He seems to be talking about shoehorning Shat into the film with the “distracting” comment. At least that is how I read it. In other words, it would not fit into the flow of his story. The point about him being “so well known for…” is about why he thinks using him in a very brief minor role or cameo (which Bill told him he did not want to do anyway) would not work well.
I realize that JJ did not write the movie you wanted (a “correction” of Kirk’s unworthy death), but it was never his responsibility to do so. Take it up with Berman and Shatner, and give this guy a chance to make a good film for us without saddling him with that kind of baggage, will you? This is the only new Star Trek you/we are going to get on the big screen. The great characters are still there. So will I. Will you be?
#57 …all of the above
SHATNER SIAD HE DID NOT WANT TO DO A CAMEO SO IT WAS HIS DECISION NOT TO BE IN THE MOVIE, BECAUSE TO THEN ASK THEM TO COMPLETELY REWRITE THE SCRIPT IS SIMPLE NOT ON CASE CLOSED.
Given all the excuses I hope Spock dies in this movie and stays dead.
Ironic- not too fanboyish to put James Cawley in, though.:)
#46- No, we don’t need more “Tom is gay” jokes.
South Park already mined that territory to death.
What we need are more “Tom is an Operating Thetan, Level Seven so that must officially make him an overbearing, tin-plated dictator with delusions of godhood” jokes.
Just make sure the punchline is always, “The Aristocrats.”
#57–He did not want to be in the film as anything but a guy who is already dead. It would be “distracting” if JJ were to resurrect him despite that element having nothing to do with the story. There is a writer’s strike. And the “fanboys” will not make the studio their money back. One third of the big 3 original actors is no longer with us, and only Nimoy (whose character happens to survive the length of the Star Trek calendar from TOS to DS9/VOY), is essential to his story. I’m not sure I see the validity of your protest. Heck, I am quite sure I don’t see it. It seems to me that you are directing your frustration at a guy who had nothing to do with creating the issue in the first place. Shatner’s Kirk is alive in his novels. You are welcome to keep buying those and reading them… I’ll go see this movie.
He’s dead, folks! Shatner thought Generations was a great idea at the time, and now he wants to undo that error. Too late. Berman did not kill Captain Kirk: Brannon Braga and Ronald D. Moore wrote the script; William Shatner signed on for it.
We’d all love to see Shatner in ST08, from the public to the fans to the executive producers. But in order to put Shatner in, they would have to make the entire movie about that; it’s the only dramatically viable way to do it. Star Trek XI: The Search for Kirk. That isn’t the direction this movie has taken, and it’s time for folks to come to terms with that.
Or, as a great man once said, “Get a life!”
I think I’m genuinely annoyed by the Shatner conspiracy theorists right now. Perhaps it’s because they’re not only attacking a perfectly reasonable position by Abrams, which is what they always do, but because they’ve now also dragged Berman-bashing back into this, conveniently overlooking fan hero Ron Moore’s involvement in Kirk’s death. Rick Berman is not the Antichrist! Neither is JJ Abrams; William Shatner is responsible for his own character’s death, and, thus, his own disinvolvement in this film!
#43
You bet I noticed that, buddy!
#45
I’ll refuse to leave the building - I might miss Abram’s ongoing lame excuses and the zest they bring about.
If you come to think of it, Abrams is becoming sort of a distraction on a regular basis.
#24, 54: Paramount pulled the plug on the original crew. There weren’t going to be any more movies with them. Tell me you wouldn’t have taken one last $5 million payday. He “saw no future.” And it wasn’t “selling out.” His profession is acting.
There is a new cast playing Kirk, Spock, and McCoy now. What ever happens to Older Spock Nimoy at the end of this movie I don’t see Shatner or Nimoy in the next Star Trek movies. It will be the younger cast on the Enterprise with JJ .
I can’t read any more interviews from JJ. We should sell t-shirts “JJ Abrams said ‘I’m the greatest!’”
Come on, every interview with him is loaded with marketing bubble. “He is great, she is great, everyone is even greater. And you are of course the greatest.” I can’t read it anymore.
If he really can’t say anything more in detail about the movie, than he should shut up.
Heh heh… I just find it funny that out of Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty, Kirk is the only one who cannot be brought back to life.
Even tho scripts don’t write themselves, it’s unfortunate to think that nobody with any clout would be interested in correcting that mistake made a few films back.
Too bad.
Besides, would we be seeing Kirk or Denny Crane?
#57 “It would be ‘distracting’ if JJ were to resurrect him despite that element having nothing to do with the story.”
We don’t know anything about this story … other than it’s going to be a lot different from what we’ve seen so far. Looks very much like a reboot. If it’s in alternate timeline, previously dead people can live again.
“There is a writer’s strike.”
He should’ve been written in before then.
“And the ‘fanboys’ will not make the studio their money back.”
I don’t believe anyone said they would. closet, since you respond to every sentence I type with 6 paragraphs, yet don’t seem to “hear” a thing I am saying, I’m not sure we should continue with this!
#64–Well put. Abrams is in no way obligated to make a movie about “correcting” Kirk’s death. It is shameful for some to make that his responsibility. This is a “fresh” look at TOS era Star Trek (which I have been waiting for forever, it seems) and Nimoy’s character happens to be crucial to the story. I can’t wait!!!
#54 THX
THX….did you read my reply to you at the end of the Pine thread? :)
I heard J.J. on the Opie and Anthony show this morning, and he talked about a bunch of things. He said there are Lost references in Cloverfield, so now I have to go out and watch this stupid movie to see what they are, and then vomit. :)
This is so funny to read and pursuit your neverending ongoing debate about “Shat in/out” from Germany. Wonderful distraction and entertainment. :)
***
As for J.J. Abrams Interview.
Nice words, nothing relevant said but so much more meaning between the words to one starving Trekkie. I already love you all for this wonderful ideas, pictures and bravery you brought back to us.
We’ll get Trek back.
What a wonderful time to be a trekkie right now.
High regards and anticipation.
Go Abrams, go!
50
“Please spare the argument that it would be “too fanboyish” to have Shatner in the film. This is a new Star Trek film we are talking about, not a new work of art from William Shakespeare.”
LOL. By that reasoning we should all just be happy if Paramount gave us another Insurrection or Nemesis. Personally I expect a higher quality movie for my money– even if it IS just Star Trek.
Ah, another shatner thread.
Wonder where this debate will go?
#75
No, what I meant by that is that this is Star Trek where anything can happen.
Did you see ST III where Spock came back from the dead after being shot from deep space + just happened to soft land and then have his “katra” placed back into his body from his friend who just happened to have it through some type of mind meld?
Star Trek has millions of examples of stuff like this. Bottom line if they truly wanted Shatner they could have found a way.
34: Wow, I wonder how he got away with that picture. Dang.
I’m glad he didn’t spoil anything in his entry (it took me a second to figure out what to click on with that font on the background picture) but what he described about the set sounds so awesome, and I really do wonder who that A-lister is he mentions.
Oh, the intrigue. :O
All this controversy over the Shat is building debate and interest. Shatner will be in it, guaranteed.
It’s a new form of viral marketing.
#63
-..only Nimoy (whose character happens to survive the length of the Star Trek calendar from TOS to DS9/VOY), is essential to his story. -
IMO, that precisely is the mistake. Not regarding the Kirk-Spock dynamic, the crucial element of TOS, was part of the reason for Generations‘ artistic failure. Now Abrams will only tell the story of young Kirk and Spock, in a day when their relationship is not yet elaborated. The later established unique friendship, combination and dynamic which is essential and could only be portrayed by Nimoy and Shatner, will be elided again. The biggest mistake in ST history (apart from Kirk’s death itself) will be made again.
hey has anyone read the link at the bottom of imdb.com, star trek viral campaign begins! looks like it could be interesting…
Maybe the really did and this is all a ploy. Imagine that. It would be the biggest secret in movie making history. Not to mention during the internet age.
#70
SPOILER ALERT!
Spock is going back in time to prevent the Romulans from screwing up something, presumably around the Enterprise and Kirk. (how original, yet I still have hope the story won’t suck)
It’s not an alternate timeline, but it will become one… that’s their way of making a reboot that’s not a reboot…
It doesn’t really matter though, as he’s going back to a time when Kirk is too young to be played by Shatner.
He could resurrect Kirk before he goes back. But that would be like the Enterprise-E crew trying to resurrect Tasha Yar before they go back in time in First Contact.
my girlfriend left to the bathroom and threw up during the movie. then she tried to come back in but started feeling sick again. she just had to walk around for an hour while i finished watching the movie. she didnt mind…shes pretty cool.
we went for the trek trailer anyway
I really wanted to have Kirk back alive even if we saw him for 30 seconds, but if Shatner won’t take a cameo then sadly, that’s his problem.
Long live Chris Pine.
Very groovy. Abrams seems like a decent guy and my hopes for the film become more positive with every new thing we see. That said, I still strongly suspect that when Abrams says “He said to me he didn’t want to do a cameo,” then and only then we are seeing the core truth, because it doesn’t take any story-juggling at all to (for example) let him take a role as an Admiral or an Academy instructor, etc.
So Shatner is now cast as the famous knight of the Round Table (Monty Python version): the aptly named “Sir Not Appearing in This Film.” Which is funny because he’s totally the wrong age for that part :)
You can hate Shatner cause he makes you feel inferior, or hate him because his bad toupe scares you, or you can hate the man because he is successful in just about everything he tackles and that, for some inexplicable reason, gets under your skin. But having said that…IF Shatner IS in the movie, JJ’s smokescreen isn’t going to blow away just because he is on Howard Stern’s radio show.
IF Shatner IS in the movie and they really REALLY want to keep in under wraps…he’s not going to anounce it now or next month or on Thanksgiving day. Despite anyone’s love or hate for the Shat, …we really don’t know what is going on with William Shatner and Star Trek 08.
You can pretend you do, but you really don’t.
Just sayin.
I have added a link to the opie and anthony audio
@ 79 & 80
Possible, but unlikely however much we may wish it so. Although a lot of press has been generated by the whole “Shatner no in the Movie” topic, I think it’s safe to say that it’s not the kind of publicity Abrams, Paramount or even Shatner would want. Look at how pissy so many people get at either prospect. I would think a viral publicity campaign would use a less risky strategy, this has the potential to work against them. Of course, I could be wrong. After all that guy’s myspace page (linked to in post #34) mentions a top secret A-list actor. Is it Bill? Who knows. Hope that guy doesn’t get fired!
I liked generations, It was well done as a way for both generations to meet and pass the baton. It seemed at the time that many fans (not everyone) wanted to see a meeting of the two captains somehow and the studio made it happen. Even though Kirk’s death was kinda lame. by the time first contact hit the screens, most of the controvery had died away and everyone was waiting for the next trek movie..when trek started to stumble, Some fans wanted to return to old trek. And to quote a famous news anchor: “and that’s the way it is..January 24th 2008..I’m walter Cronkite, Goodnight!”
Hey - I got an idea. Maybe JJ could tackle a T.J. Hooker revival movie next and feature Shatner in that. I’m just sayin…
#24 “I wish people would stop blaming Berman..”
Maybe we stop dumping on Britney for being a rotten mom while we’re at it….
nah… aint gonna happen.
Hey Harry,
Yes, my friend, I did indeed . I hope I didn’t detract from the limerick fun, but I wanted to do one of those without seeming like I was crashing your turf. But I should have known you were more generous than that.
I say we have “Collected Limericks from the Genius Minds of Trekmovie.com” compilation. Featuring of course, the venerable Harry Ballz.
I have been working at the gallery that my wife and I own, so I have to sneak in here without the boss catching me.
Of course, if we keep with the “the baton was passed in Generations” logic, then Picard is still holding it, because he’s never passed it onward to anyone else. Maybe in the new film, there’s a brief time-travel scene where elderly Spock takes young Kirk into the future to jump Picard in a dark alley and wrest the baton from his grip. They could time the attack for one of those moments of distraction where Jean Luc has to pause to sharply adjust his tunic. :)
#38 “Abrams is SO right about how incredibly transparent and fanboyish it would look if they tried to fit Shatner into this movie. It would look like really bad fanfic. ”
Truthfully, the ONLY ones that would see it as being “fanboyish” are fanboys. And this movie isn’t aimed at getting their keisters in the seats anyway…we’re after mainstream america, remember?
So, sorry JJ and DavidJ, that dog don’t hunt.
#32
JJ is not only a big Stern fan, but a close friend. They dine out together every now and then. Shatner is also a big fan and calls in regularly, along with many other famous political, sports, business,and entertainment personalities. There are also strippers, drunks, & degenerates, People like you that don’t listen to the WHOLE show are the always the ones that criticize it. The fact of the matter is that it is a very topical, and funny 4 hours of entertainment. Sure there are gross moments, but they do not dominate it. Life has unsavory elements to it. Stern isn’t afraid to show people that it exists. He is also a HUGE Trek fan.
This is SO LAME!!!!!!!!!
JJ Abrams won’t put Shatner in the movie because he’s know for other things?
Guess JJ owns Big Bad Mama & Airplane II on DVD, no way to seperate The Shat’s James T. Kirk from those classic film roles!
#84 “He could resurrect Kirk before he goes back. But that would be like the Enterprise-E crew trying to resurrect Tasha Yar before they go back in time in First Contact.”
4 pm: contact Starfleet
4.30 pm: stop Borg fleet
5 pm: tea
5.30 pm: go a little back in time
6 pm: stop to save Tasha Yar
6.30 pm: keep going back to save the day
#34
Some kind of viral thing I suppose. Cool.
#34 this guy seems to wear exactly the same “uniform” we saw on the chris pine-spyshot some weeks ago…
“. . .is essential and could only be portrayed by Nimoy and Shatner.”
How so?
Okay. So Shat’s not in the movie — either by design or his own doing. According to Abrams, the story would suffer. If that is factual, then as along time fan who would love to see the Shatner-Nimoy moment in Trek 08, I accept Abrams’ reasoning. I will continue to support the filmmakers with this one caveat — if after seeing the film, there was an easily done, organic way to have had Shatner appear then I know I will fell less so invclined to support the film. Yes, I know. Who gives a damn, Crusty?But the reasons for not including him do seem thin. I mean c’mon, too fanboyish? He’s too popular? What’s next? The film would be too perfect? Of course, if it was Shatner’s wish not to appear for any reason — $, larger part, etc. then I will apologize to the filmmakers.
#95 I read that and laughed
#99 5 pm: tea
LOL!
“5.30 pm: go a little back in time
6 pm: stop to save Tasha Yar”
Remember that if they go back a little, there won’t be no Tasha Yar. Population 9 billion. All Borg.
64 “We’d all love to see Shatner in ST08, from the public to the fans to the executive producers. But in order to put Shatner in, they would have to make the entire movie about that”
Not really, because the only ones requiring a full blown explanation are the fanboys…and in turn, taking the time to bother fiilming a long drawn out explanation for those fanboys, would be quite “fanboyish” wouldn’t it? And we can’t have that now, can we?
Believe me, most of the audience won’t know or care that the character was buried under a pile of rocks in a rotten movie over 10 years ago.
Therefore, the only answer, if they want to include him, is just put him in. Like the cloverfield monster…we don’t need to know why he is there it order to enjoy it, just that he is.
Heard JJ on Opie and Anthony today. Anthony is a trekkie and expressed enthusiasm for this new film. O&A Show is hilarious and TJ Miller has been on their show twice hanging and talking smack. TJ Miller as it turns out is a stand up comedian, so I expect he’ll be on O&A more esp with his standup set coming to Comix soon in NYC.
I’m sorry…but do people still listen to Stern? Is it 1987?
#106: But then they’d be whining because Kirk’s presence is unexplained…
I’m worried.
I may not be able to watch Harrison Ford in the new Indy film because he is so well known for so much else like Han Solo, Jack Ryan and, erm, that dude in Firewall.
In fact, as an audience member I am so unsophisticated that I may no longer be able to enjoy the Shat as Denny Crane without my mind wandering and thinking I’m watching TJ Hooker or the Cap’n fellow from that once great Sci Fi show.
*Sigh*
#105 “Remember that if they go back a little, there won’t be no Tasha Yar. Population 9 billion. All Borg.”
Damn! Data, I told you to stop tampering with the chrono-navigator. Now we’ll have to open another temporal-subspace-chrono-tachyonic-gravitational singularity…
77.-
Bringing Spock back took the WHOLE movie !
Quit saying they can “do anything….it’s Sci-Fi…..”
The story they want to tell is not about one character- for all we really know Nimoy plays older Quinto, not neccesarily Quinto = young Nimoy
For all us Trekkies/ers we go “ah cool… Nimoy’s back…” this film story wise “fits” with what we already know (Kirk dead on Veridian III)
Everyone else in the audience just says “Isnt that that old guy who takes pictures of Fat chicks?”
And they keep seeing the movie Abrams/etc. wants to show us which is STAR TREK, no blooddy 2,3,4,5,6,7, 7-A, 8,9, or 10 !
MI: III doesnt bring Phelps back from the dead and make him a good guy again…
“temporal-subspace-chrono-tachyonic-gravitational singularity…”
Funny, that’s exactly how I describe a 4 day junket in Las Vegas I survived a few years ago! :)
Nimoy playing older Quinto?
#112 “The story they want to tell is not about one character- for all we really know Nimoy plays older Quinto, not neccesarily Quinto = young Nimoy”
You are totally right. Guys, Trek is about to start again. New people, new actors, new plots. Nimoy and Shatner are icons but they live in the past. We love them but the clock is moving forward so we have to accept a Trek world without Nimoy and Shatner.
“He would have found a way…If there was that much at stake, Spock WOULD have found a way.” - James Kirk to Sark STIII
Why does everyone rail against Shatner for not taking a cameo? Nimoy refused Geneerationd for the same reason! Every tie he says “there was no Spock Character in that movie.” What he really means is “It was a cameo and not worth my time.
and you know what? there’s nothing wrong with that. it’s a legitimate reason not to do someting. I’m a stage actor and at a point in my career where if it’s not a worthwhile role (cameo, walk-on) I say no.
What was just as bad about Kirk’s death in Generations, was they hyped it as “The 2 greatest Captains of all time meet.” -Yeah, for like five minutes.!
Picard: “Hey Jim, nice cottage! Great Dog! Whaddaya say we cook some eggs and then you help me go beat up the latest galactic bully cuz I’m not a good enough fighter.”
It was pointless and unfulfilling.
Okay. Dinner time poll:
On a scale of 1 to10, how fanboyish (or girlish) are you?
I’m about an FB 5.
#116 “then you help me go beat up the latest galactic bully cuz I’m not a good enough fighter.”
Kirk humiliated to death. And Shatner signed and played that script.
#111
normal people: I will now exit the theater because this is starting to suck…
Trekkies: Oh yes! Tasha is back! Yes!
Okay, let’s imagine the Trek08 plot goes like this:
1. Romulans find time device
2. Romulans go back in time and assimilate…err, I mean conquer Earth
3. There is no Federation any more, Vulcan is a slave planet of the glorious Romulan Empire, etc.
4. Spock feels something is not right because he’s special
5. Spock decides to resurrect his old friend captain James T Kirk, who died while helping captain Picard in 2370… wait. I mean that young cadet who got killed during the assimilation…err, I mean conquering of Earth
6. Spock goes back in time before the Romulans, kicks some Romulan butt with Kirk and his younger self.
7. Great moment between Kirk, young Spock and old Spock, old Spock’s hand superimposed over young Spock’s etc. Spock goes back into the restored future.
8. He then somehow stops in 2370 and prevents Kirk’s death in Generations. Audience goes: WTF does that have to do with the movie? I though it was over. And why are these two guys fighting over a remote?
9. The End
#88
-..we really don’t know what is going on with William Shatner and Star Trek 08. -
True.
#102
I was referring to the later established friendship which is not yet existent in the timeframe STXI will probably cover, the Academy years. This beginning friendship will be portrayed by Pine and Quinto. The one-of-a-kind friendship we know and appreciate from the later episodes and the films, which led to the events in STII and III, and which was missing in Generations and obviously will be missing in STXI, but which I for one consider crucial for the statement TOS makes, could only be portrayed by Nimoy and Shatner. Pine and Quinto demonstrating the deep friendship Kirk and Spock were able to elaborate during their joint adventures would be implausible and just an empty shell.
#119 “And why are these two guys fighting over a remote?”
OMG, that thing *really* happened! I was trying to forget it…
#115 We don’t have to accept anything if we do not choose to.
We all have a choice. Just because I have been a big fan of certain Trek incarnations in the past doesn’t guarantee me there for this.
Choice.
#117: As far as Star Trek goes, maybe about a 4.
On the one hand, I consider the basic measure of “fannishness” to be “a tendency to enthusiastically take the bad with the good,” and I lack that tendency. I didn’t sit still for Voyager, for example, never saw an episode of Enterprise until after it was cancelled, and I still haven’t seen the last two Trek films, even on video. There are only about half of the original-crew films I bother re-watching, and while I love the TNG cast I only like about half of their seasons. So, on the basic metric of taking-bad-with-good, I score rock-bottom. I don’t buy, watch, or even pay attention to something just because someone slaps a Trek logo on it.
On the other hand, I do consider myself a Star Trek fan. I have a Trek gaming page on my website, and I’ve written licensed Star Trek material professionally (including one book that was referenced on a TV show I wasn’t even watching at the time). So I figure that bumps it up a notch.
I’ve been watching the newer fan-films. I figure that’s worth a point right there.
I also own a stuffed Tribble toy, and I figure that bumps it up another one all by itself, because … Tribble.
So, around a 4. I’m below-average, but I invite any excuse to see that number increased. Here’s hoping JJ and company can do it.
SPOILER … uniform spotted on myspace. This may be a fake, but not neccesarily. I don’t like it.
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=58437555&albumID=644348&imageID=19212816
#116: “Why does everyone rail against Shatner for not taking a cameo? Nimoy refused Geneerationd for the same reason! Every tie he says “there was no Spock Character in that movie.” What he really means is “It was a cameo and not worth my time.”
But let’s not not blame the makers of Star Trek XI for not bending over backwards and making the entire movie The Search for Kirk just because he wouldn’t accept a cameo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Reeve#Sequels
“On February 25, 2003, Reeve appeared in the television series Smallville as Dr. Swann in the episode “Rosetta”. In that episode, Dr. Swann brings to Clark Kent (Tom Welling) information about where he comes from and how to use his powers for the good of mankind. The scenes of Reeve and Welling feature music cues from the 1978 Superman movie, composed by John Williams and arranged by Mark Snow. At the end of this episode, Reeve and Welling did a short spot inviting people to support the Christopher Reeve Paralysis Foundation.”
Don’t you think something like that would’ve been awesome in Trek XI? Would you have accepted a cameo role in this case?
JJ rocks!
#88 Jonboc
No offense, but everyone involved is saying he is not in the movie.
You post sounds like it was written by Fox Mulder with it’s conspiracy like overtones.
# 50 Ivory
That post does sound like it comes from a Moonlighting episode. Everything you said is also very true.
.
112. Captain Scokirk…
“Quit saying they can ‘do anything….it’s Sci-Fi…..’”
Then you quit saying, “Bringing Spock back took the WHOLE movie!” You have to realize there is more than one school of thought on this. Some of us feel Generations need barely be acknowledged. That the greater good would be in simply seeing Shatner onscreen with Nimoy again. If a tie-in novel explained in great detail how and why Kirk was alive, and Paramount declared it “canon”, no one would be able to argue it.
“for all we really know Nimoy plays older Quinto, not neccesarily Quinto = young Nimoy”
That’ll be the day. I like Quinto, but … no.
“Everyone else in the audience just says ‘Isnt that that old guy who takes pictures of Fat chicks?’”
Please. As if Nimoy is more known for that book than for Mr. Spock? Dude. (shakes head with pity)
“MI: III doesnt bring Phelps back from the dead and make him a good guy again…”
I fail to see how that is relevant. MI: III wasn’t jumping around in time and featuring original series stars.
I think Stern’s sidekick Artie Lange put it best to Mr. Abrams (paraphrasing):
‘So you’re gonna show every era of Star Trek history EXCEPT any where Shatner was alive?’
#124 - I could live with it if that was a costume featured. Better that ones in TMP, imo.
#124
Why did they move the starfleet insignia to the collar?
#122 “We all have a choice. Just because I have been a big fan of certain Trek incarnations in the past doesn’t guarantee me there for this.”
Of course you have the choice, no doubt about it. But think about how things are going: Nimoy-Shatner are not going to live forever and Trek for them is (or is going to be) over. The TNG crew has lost every interest in doing Trek again and left the fans with a tired, horrible movie. The other branches of the franchise look quite sterile. Berman’s Trek is dead, and for a reason.
I don’t want to lock myself in a time capsule. Time to open the window for some fresh air.
Lets face it, Shatner is as much to blame for Kirk being dead as any one of the usual suspects on Generations.
Ultimately Shatner did not have to take that role on. I believe he saw it (at the time) as;
1) The last time he would be able to play Kirk (a character which he enjoyed playing) as there were not going to be any more original cast movies made
2) A big fat pay cheque for relatively little work
3) A death scene, what actor doesn’t enjoy those?
Who would have thought that 14 years later, they (Paramount) would be going back to the original characters and involving (some of) the original cast?
And although Shatner and Nimoy are the closest of friends, I think that Mr. S. is more than a little pissed off that a Star Trek film is going to be centred on Spocks character. But why not Spock as he is the only character to have been in all the original series incarnations?
It sounds to me as if Abrams wanted to have a small spot for Shatner as Kirk at either the beginning and/or end of this movie. But as we all know, Shatner does not do cameos.
So lets face the facts as they are likely to end up being.
The only person really stopping Shatner from having any part in this film is Shatner himself, along with his (on this point, over inflated) ego.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Shatner is quite a good actor and not a stupid man. Although in recent years, to my mind, he has descended into somewhat of a parody to himself. Whether that is deliberate or not I don’t know. Just look at those commercials he did in the UK. Horrible.
But. I. Don’t. See. Him. As. Kirk. Anymore. (As much as I would love to be able to do so)
Now all the Shatner fanboys can feel free to insult me all they like. I’m not even going to duck and run for cover, because healthy debate should never be shied away from…
Wait a second…
“B. YOUR character is dead, and C. if we put YOU in, HE is so well known for some much else as well….”
is he referring to Kirk, and not Shatner?
..I think that’s an academy uniform, it looks just like Pine’s. Maybe even a dress uniform, with the shiny emblem and all. Pretty sharp.
@ 128
“If a tie-in novel explained in great detail how and why Kirk was alive, and Paramount declared it “canon”, no one would be able to argue it.”
I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think ANYBODY has ever declared anything canon except for Gene Roddenberry. Since his death, the only canon is what you see onscreen. I’m not sure how Paramount *could* declare anything canon. They’re not the Vatican and Star Trek is fiction. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a Shatner fan, too, and I’d love to see him in the movie as long as it makes SOME sense.
Where I part company with Abrams, the nay-sayers and Shatner-bashers is with the assumption that it’s *either* a whole movie devoted to Kirk’s resurrection or a really lame plot. I’m pretty sure that there are other possiblities. I haven’t written any myself but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done.
I think Shatner would be in STXI if he was open to doing a cameo. I mean, even just a nice exchange with Spock, summing up his feelings on life and the universe, before stepping onto the Enterprise where his initial accident occurs. He might even, unknowingly, explain more about his final words… All we can hope is that Shatner will eventually open himself up to a small, but meaingful part…
Meanwhile, Cloverfield’s camera is NOT that shaky. Any frustration with it may just be mental. Or due to hype. A lot of the movement is actually almost too deliberate!!
#127 “No offense, but everyone involved is saying he is not in the movie.”
None taken. I’m just saying just because everyone is saying it doesn’t automatically make it so. And no one will know, for sure, until 12-25-08…of that much I’m certain.
I have an idea.
Have “Sammy” Crane, Denny Cranes great great great great grandson show up at the launch of the 1701 and take over the ship!
Tada. The Shat returns. And he can call himself Kirk.
#135 “I’m not sure how Paramount *could* declare anything canon”
Well, Star Trek is an intellectual property of Paramount so I think that they have full control over what is canon and what is not.
Waitwaitwait… S. John Ross. That seems… dimly…
*googles*
Aha! Last Unicorn! You invented the dueling weapons from “United”! Kudos, sir! That was an excellent three-parter, even if you weren’t watching the show at the time. Thanks.
#106: Actually… that could work. I still think it would have to be careful, artful, and contributing to the overall themes of the movie, which I can’t judge without actually having a copy of the script in front of me. But the “look! It’s Kirk! Screw explanation!” method could well work, especially as this is a movie for the mainstream audience.
YAWN…
@ 139
So what do they do, have a big press confrence where they declare what is and what isn’t canon to a fictional series? Seriously?
I’d think the general public would collectively go HUH??????? WTF are they talking about?
It’s all fiction. Canon, non-canon… fiction. Completely unreal no matter who says what. They’re just stories - some of them great stories, others not so great. Debating the reality of one fictional piece over another just seems… kind of pathetic, really.
I’ve loved Star Trek since I started watching as a child in the early seventies, but I NEVER forgot that it was fiction. I think that for some people, that line gets a little too blurry and that has a great deal to do with the generally negative perception of Trek fans in general.
Just my two cents, nothing personal.
Fanboy level? On a scale of 1 10, I’m a -5. But, of course, I’m not 100% sure I understand what it is to be a “fanboy”…
Lets hope Shatner is the next one.
Well I think that he should…. ahh, forget it. I’m sick of this whole Shatner thing. Can we please move on?
#142 “It’s all fiction. Canon, non-canon… fiction”
You didn’t get my point. I don’t care too much about canon. I was just saying that Star Trek belongs to Paramount, so they can decide what they want.
112. Captain Scokirk…
“Quit saying they can ‘do anything….it’s Sci-Fi…..’”
Then you quit saying, “Bringing Spock back took the WHOLE movie!”
(THIS IS A FACT, THE PRODUCERS ARE TELING A SPECIFIC STORY AND THEY STARTED WITH A STORY IDEA, WHICH IS CLEARLY NOT BRING BACK 70 + YR OLD CAPT. KIRK, IF IT WERE TO HAVE BEEN DONE IT REQUIRES AN ENTIRE FILM, WHEN SHATNER DID IT IT WAS AN ENTIRE NOVEL, THIS IS THE REASONING BEHIND THIS STATEMENT )
You have to realize there is more than one school of thought on this. Some of us feel Generations need barely be acknowledged. That the greater good would be in simply seeing Shatner onscreen with Nimoy again.
(WHILE I ACCEPT THAT THERE MAY BE ANOTHER SCHOOL OF THOUGHT ON THIS I THINK THE DISCUSSION SHOULD BE FRAMED IN REFERENCE TO THE FILMED TREK LIBRARY NOT WHAT FANS DEEM ACKNOLEDGABLE OR FOR THE GREATER GOOD, WHATEVER THAT MEANS)
If a tie-in novel explained in great detail how and why Kirk was alive, and Paramount declared it “canon”, no one would be able to argue it.
(I THINK THE POINT IS TO CRAFT A STORY THAT MORE OR LESS FITS WITH THE ESTABLISHED FILMED CANON, PRINT STORIES HAVE NEVER BEEN CANON, AND WHEN I USE CANON IT IS SHORTHAND FOR THE FILMED TREK LIBRARY NOT NECCESARILY GR’S APPROVED VISION, I AM NOT REFERING TO VISUAL CANON WHICH THEY SEEM TO BE PLAYING LOOSE WITH BUT THEY SAID THEY WOULD DO THAT WHILE REMAINING FAITHFUL TO THE STORIES THESE ARE THEIR(PRODUCERS)RULES NOT MINE)
“for all we really know Nimoy plays older Quinto, not neccesarily Quinto = young Nimoy”
That’ll be the day. I like Quinto, but … no.
(NOT REFERING TO THE ACTOR BUT THE CHARACTER, AS PRESENTED TO US AS A YOUNG MAN, IN NO WAY AN ATTEMPT TO DENEGRATE NIMOY AS AN ICON/PERFORMER)
“Everyone else in the audience just says ‘Isnt that that old guy who takes pictures of Fat chicks?’”
(THIS WAS A JOKE, A BAD JOKE MAYBE BUT A JOKE NONE THE LESS . NEXT TIME I’LL PUT A :-) SO NOBODY GETS ALL WORKED UP)
Please. As if Nimoy is more known for that book than for Mr. Spock? Dude. (shakes head with pity)
(SEE LAST COMMENT)
“MI: III doesnt bring Phelps back from the dead and make him a good guy again…”
I fail to see how that is relevant. MI: III wasn’t jumping around in time and featuring original series stars.
(WHILE I GRANT 1/2 POINT ON THIS ONE REPORTEDLY PETER GRAVES TURNED DOWN ROLE IN 1ST MI MOVIE SO AT SOME POINT THERE WAS A DESIRE TO INVOLVE ORIGINAL ACTORS, AND BESIDES IT IS A SPY MOVIE FANTASY THEY CAN DO ANYTHING….) DO INEED TO ADD :-) HERE?
I think Stern’s sidekick Artie Lange put it best to Mr. Abrams (paraphrasing):
‘So you’re gonna show every era of Star Trek history EXCEPT any where Shatner was alive?’
(SHATNER IS A REMARKABLE ACTOR, LOOKS GREAT FOR HIS AGE AS A REGULAR JOE BUT HIS CHARACTER DIED “14 YEARS AGO” AND HE CAN NOT CONVINCINGLY PLAY HIMSELF FROM 14 YEARS AGO, AS CAPT. KIRK HE LOOKS TO OLD AND OUT OF PRIME PHYSICAL CONDITION TO PLAY HIMSELF FROM SUCH A LONG TIME AGO, THAT IS THE HARSH REALITY. SO THERE IS NO ESTABLISHED POINT IN TIME THIS FILM SEEMS TO BE VISITING THAT THE ACTOR CAN BE EXPECTED TO PLAY)
I am not against Shatner or Kirk I have always debated this issue from the point of view of trying to divine what the producers are doing from what WE KNOW about the film, not what I want to see, WHAT ARE THEY (the Producers) doing and how does it fit with our understanding of what came before.
FB7-I’m getting it under control.
The great thing about the Shatner debates is at least it’s not the same argument over and over again.
Right?
Is it? I mean that both sides bring new and unique points of view each time to the table. No? Don’t they?
Another Shat threads no surprise
I’ll take red-hot pokers for my eyes
Rancor spewed just to spite ‘em
It goes on ad infinitum
And leaves many to offer their sighs.
Stern and co quizzing Abrams about Shatner reminds me of something….
Stern - Why did you leave him in Generations? Shatner trusted you..and you denyed him his future…
JJ - I saw no future…
HS - JJ I must have your thoughts…may i join your mind…
JJ - Certainly…
HS - He spoke of your admiration…
JJ - yes…
HS - Asked you not to grieve…
JJ - ….yes…
HS - The needs of the Shat…outweigh..
JJ - The needs of the story…
HS - or the cameo…
JJ - …Bill….
HS - I have been and always shall be Kirk…live long and prosper…
JJ - noooo….
Abrams Talks Strike, Shatner, Cloverfield ‘Sickness’ And More [UPDATED]
This is the thread title ? So I one wanted to talk about Abrams and Shatner they would come here right?
Who’s reading this thread to find out who else is getting a cameo?
re: 150
err.. “If one..”
best to proof read when being snotty…
I’m tired of this one too , but sometimes it’s hard to resist….
44. Ivory - January 24, 2008
“Berman - killed Kirk
Abrams - put nail in coffin”
You forgot to mention Shatner holding him down
Is anyone tired of these fanatics, whether they be for Shatner or any other celebrity? They really don’t help things in the slightest.
Wow…I’m surprised everyone isn’t all over that leaked pic of the uniform and blog. Hmm…maybe Tom Cruise is in this thing after all.
50. Ivory - January 24, 2008
“I’m distracted by the stupidity of the argument that Shatner’s presence would somehow be a distraction”
What part of the past three Abrams interviews did you not read?
Here’s the timeline.
Shatner agreed to kill Kirk 14 years ago, resulting in a script written without old Kirk as a character. They don’t put characters into movies that are not needed to move the story along.
“It’s time for Kirk/Shatner fans to face the fact that they never wanted Shatner and he will not be in the film.”
They did, but he killed the character, otherwise he’d be on set… right now. They aren’t dumb and this isn’t the big conspiracy you keep making it out to be.
NOW you can face that fact…. or shall we beat the dead equine one more time?
Still think originally if Nimoy had refused to come out of retirement (big possibility) then they would of gone the Shatner route.
Pleased Nimoy is in, sad and dissappointed Shatner isn’t.
Generations:- Although the story was a missed opportunity for the whole tos cast meets TNG, I’m still pleased Shatner made the film. It felt a bonus at the time because Paramount was pushing TNG movies and there was not going to be a Captain Sulu series so again TOS characters were at an end. Bill knew that too.
You’ve got to remember Berman would still be in charge today had he not screwed up the last two movies.
What does all this arguing accomplish? Shatner being in this film or not will not be decided by it.
I have this feeling that Abrams really is not up to speed on Star Trek movies 1-6. And I am really feeling sorry for the guy in these interviews.
JJ. We can’t use Shatner/ KirK because he died.
Q. But didn’t Nimoy/Spock die?
JJ. Yes, but he lived on.
Outside of those of us that know the trek history…doesn’t that reason sound silly to the general public?
First he asked Shatner to me in the film…when informed by Shatner he died in “Generations”…then,,,,Abrams says…well we can’t use Shatner…he died “on screen” in “Generations.”
So, my question is….when Abrams asks Shatner about being in the film…was this script not written yet? Everyone keeps saying that for Shatner to be in this movie…it must go with the story…then why even go to Shatner?
I ask this because it seems like Abrams is saying….great script written…then we had to get Nimoy because his part is important for the script. Then again, why talk to Shatner in the first place?
I wish some would ask Abrams….have you watched the orginal movies yet?
Gene
#140: I did go back and watch the episodes when someone told me about it, and I did enjoy them (for one thing, I always like seeing Coombs). It seemed to confirm what a lot of fans were telling me at the time, that the show started getting good just as they were yanking it. Ah well :( Maybe someday I’ll go back and watch the whole final season …
I deserve no credit for inventing the weapon, though; the general description of the weapon had already been established in the LUGTrek corebooks (and had been a decision, IIRC, of the mighty mighty Steve Long, who meant the description to evoke an Earth-style Katar). What I did was flesh out the culture and history behind it (including a language, rules for the duel, history of the various clans and nations from their pre-Federated balkanized years, etc) using what small scraps we had to work with, pre-Enterprise. And they used one word from the language I devised in thhe show (”Ushaan”), and thus is the saga of how I accidentally contributed exactly six letters to Trek canon. My 1.5 seconds of fame, as it were. ;)
But either way, you’re welcome, mr. Infinitely Prolonged! Love the nick.
#120
You’re absolutely correct; in the early events of XI, young Kirk and Spock will not have developed the friendship and chemistry that we know and love. You are also correct that only Nimoy and Shatner could have portrayed those two characters at that point in their relationship. Agree totally!
However, what we’ll get to see this Christmas is how that friendship developed, as portrayed by Pine and Quinto, into what we love so well. And that, my farmgirl friend who’s really in Germany, is the story in which *I’m* interested! I think we have to give some level of trust to the folks making this movie that they knew what they were doing when they cast this movie. :)
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
I was going to post this in the “Pine” thread but now this article is out, think I’ll post it here:
Well, I’ve been reading all of the posts and, based on my own observation have to say that, according to past behaviour, the character Spock would not have just accepted Kirk’s death. He had more than a “love” for the man. It was deeper than that. Kirk did what he did to restore Spock (in ST:III); but because the producers/directors whatever, don’t want to do another similar movie for Kirk, there he lies on Veridian III.
It appears that the people who did “Generations” were moving on to TNG movies as was done on TV and this was how they bridged the gap and tied in the two series — put the two Enterprise Captains in the same movie and bid “adieu” to one of them.
Shatner must have also thought it was the end (i.e. couldn’t imagine what more they could do with his character at that age) so he agreed because I can’t see him giving up on playing “Kirk” unless that was his thinking. The prequel (Enterprise) didn’t last 7 years so maybe they didn’t want to try it again. Too bad he didn’t come up with the idea of training a new set of cadets at the academy — primed to take over the Enterprise; then the new, younger crew would not have to worry about the all-mighty canon. Also, they probably didn’t think of the idea that interest in a young Kirk, Spock etc. would be profitable. Perhaps a little short-sighted on their part?
So, I again ask my question (asked before), why doesn’t William Shatner, with all of his money/resources, do his own movie? Then he gets to call the shots in everything. Is this a stupid question? I don’t think so unless there’s something I don’t know. Unless he has already attempted to sway his friends but to no avail?
I’ve heard that many of the original cast didn’t like Shatner very much (as was also reflected in the spoof “Galaxy Quest” with Tim Allen, Sigourney Weaver et al) but don’t know how true that is either. I’ve tried to find books/articles written by the original crew about that sort of thing (Koenig, Takei, Doohan, Nichols) but haven’t found any. I’m not very good at research. Don’t know where to find things. I didn’t even know there was a Star Trek magazine. Didn’t buy magazines and never saw it on the stands. Saw a couple of old ones last year in Value Village and grabbed them. Can’t believe I didn’t know about it.
Anyway, Shatner could do his own movie and call the shots, couldn’t he? Or does it have to be “okayed” by copyright owners or canon “protectors” (if there is such a thing)? Would Majel Barrett Roddenberry own anything or how does that work? If Tim Russ could do a movie with some of the Star Trek actors (”Of Gods and Men”), why can’t William Shatner (or am I just showing my naiveté)?
Anyone brave enough to try to answer these questions?
William Shatner *could* do a movie, but only (a) if Paramount decided not to take it down (all fan films and fan productions, including my starshipexcelsior.com, exist only because we credit Paramount as the sole owners of the copyright–and they choose not to exercise the right to take us down) and (b) he made absolutely no money off of the film. Nor could any distributors, i.e. movie houses, so it would have to be all-online.
So I can’t see him doing that.
Good to see you, though, K.G.
Re: #162. James Heaney - Wowbagger
Hey, thanks.
I had to post this thing 3 times. It kept disappearing. Thought Anthony deleted it, but never got any warning messages to that effect. Weird.
Appreciate your answer. I can’t see him putting the money into it either, if he is not allowed to make money on it. Am beginning to understand the process.
ttyl
kg
#163
I think there was a slight server crash earlier this evening. I got some funky message from WordPress about 8:30 this evening EST that they couldn’t make contact with the host. Anthony can verify.
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#130
If I am well informed, this is just the jacket, not the actual uniform.
Maybe that’s why they moved the insignia to the collar.
Underneath that jacket there’s a tight turtleneck uniform hiding.
#129
You are right! Much better design, than they had in TMP.
_ _ _ _ _
The link to the field jacket uniform, or whatever can be found under post #124
#148 THX
Best limerick yet! Your affinity for composing them is like how Kirk took to green-skinned slave girls! :)
Cloverfield made me really nauseated the first time. The second time not so much. So when I go again this weekend I probably won’t get very sick at all. (Yep, three times. I’m crazy.)
#160
I respect what you say, my dear friend of the Vulcan mysticism. But I’m not interested in seeing the beginning friendship without knowing that our dear old Spock is going to save our dear old Kirk; the man who devoted an integral part of his life to engineer the basis for the fulfilment of his friend‘s mysticism and destiny.
IMO, ignoring that would not be a re-imagination, but a distortion.
Peace to you from your German farmgirl friend. :)
Shatner directed and came up with the story for ST V. Shatner had Kirk say that he knew he’d always die alone.
ST:Generations: Kirk dies the death Shatner seems to have envisioned for him.
RIP
Shatner didn’t accept a cameo? So they ask him?
Shatner is an idiot, why didn’t he accept?
I wish Bill could have been in this movie in any capacity. He’s been such a central figure in the Star Trek universe, it would have been classy to have him in handing off the reigns of the Kirk character to the young man replacing him. There are always possibilities, and they could have found a logical way to bring him back. It probably would have made more sense than Spock’s resurrection in any case. I’ll go to see the movie anyway, maybe not as many times as I would if Bill were in it, but I’ll watch and buy the DVD. Star Trek Lives!
170
Apparently for the same reason Nimoy didn’t accept a cameo in Generations. Ego. I can begin to understand how it would be awkward for whatever story line they have to shove in Shatner. I guess they figure it would take away from the pace of the film or the story line development. Too bad there is a strike on now. But you know, there could be a flashback conversation between Shat and Nimoy remembering how Nimoy saved him on Veridian III. . .I don’t know. It might be a personality conflict between JJ and the Shat. I’ll see the film regardless out of curiosity.
Abrams & Co are either full of it or extremely dense creatively. There are several ways to revive Shatner in the new movie as Kirk without major rewrites or infringing on “the story we’re trying to tell”. It would be no more out of place or fanboyish than an entire movie about Spock being brought back in TSFS.
The easiest way which has been brought up on here before is to have Spock implant foreknowledge of Kirks death when he travels back in time via a mind meld with Quinto’s Spock or Pine’s Kirk(re-delivering his classic line from TWOK, “remember…”), and then when he returns to the future Shatner’s Kirk is there waiting for him, they exchange smiles, and the credits roll.
That idea doesnt change “the story we’re trying to tell” in that it doesnt make Abrams story about trying to bring Kirk back, it just makes things logical in the context of Spocks character wanting to do anything for his friend. After all, if your best friend died, and you were able to go back in time or were going to be going back in time anyway, wouldnt you, while you were in the past, do something to try and prevent his death? Obviously Spock cares enough about Kirk to go back in time to prevent the Romulans from harming him, so why would he do all that just to let him die in a unbecomming manner that is completely preventable?
Aside from the greater enjoyment and acceptance of “the story we’re trying to tell”, Shatner’s mere presence in the film as Kirk will boost the box office numbers a fair amount and grab the respect of the existing fans who are ready to turn their back on Trek in the same way that the studio along with Abrams & Co appear to have.
A TWILIGHT ZONE fan is more appropriate for the new trek movie than a old trek fan…
#173:
I agree with you in essence, but you’re forgetting something. We know that Shatner was adamant that he didn’t want to do a cameo. Your scenario would amount to a cameo.
And if you didn’t do it that way, if you were to involve Shatner more, then the film would have to be built around this idea of returning Kirk to life. And I can totally understand that that’s not the story Abrams wanted to tell. Maybe in the next movie, but not this one. This one has to revitalize Star Trek, not just be another sequel.
Now…. the only thing we can say is that Abrams could have pushed more for Shatner to just DO the damn cameo…. maybe said to him, “look, there’s no other way to do it, it has to be a brief appearance at the end of the film. Please do it.” Maybe Shatner would have relented.
BUT… two things then: A) at what cost? Shatner could have demanded big bucks. Okay, maybe that doesn’t matter, but money is what it is in Hollywood, and studios don’t like to just blow it no matter how it sometimes looks that way. But more importantly, B) Abrams has repeatedly raised the “fanboy” objection, and I think he’s sincere in this. Right or wrong, I think he is of the opinion that a Kirk resurrection would have cheapened his film. I can see this, I can understand it. I don’t know as I totally agree with it—but then he’s the Hollywood professional here, not me.
Let’s hope there is a scene that would bring the SHAT back in the next movie!!!
It Bothers me when a character dies they try to bring them back in a convoluted way, Like Ripley in Alien Resurrection. It just feels so forced to make it buyable.
Look Kirk dies in Generations and yes it was lame how it was handled. But whats done is done.
If Shatner was to be in this film, the only way I could see doing it is if he recorded a video message for Spock sometime before his death and that Kirk wanted it delivered to Spock in the future as a farewell. Or even recorded it while in the Nexus having a gut feeling his leaving the Nexus to Help Picard would be his final mission. After Spock views the recording left for him he realizes that Kirk did not die as History recorded it (saving the Enterprise) . Remember History does not have a record of Kirk getting sucked into the Nexus and help save the future enterprise crew(if not the Starship) This could set up the whole movie from there. It could be a Holodeck recording where The 2 could interact. Spocks loyalties are legend in Trek lore and he would feel some responsibility to NOT change the time line. It has been rumored that Romulans(for some odd reason) come back to assassinate Kirk when he is younger. This could be Spocks way of keeping continuity with the time line and set the motivation for his return to the past. He could also set the record straight as to what Kirk actually did with regards to the Nexus and Saving the crew in the future.
Then Spock could return home to Vulcan and pass away as this was his last haunting demon(mission)He is at peace and ready to die now. Then have them flash to Starfleet academy in the old Spock timeline and Show them erecting the memorial of Spock in the final slot to complete the circle and show the legendary crew all memorialized together and a huge gathering of Starfleet and civilians cheering in honor.
then they return back to Kirk and Crew our new actors and ship heading out officially on the first 5 year mission.
Obviously The whole middle of the movie is Spock and the new crew through his younger counterpart accomplishing the mission. I dont think the old Spock would interact with too many past characters or he would have to erase their memories, even the younger spock.
#177
“If Shatner was to be in this film, the only way I could see doing it is if he recorded a video message for Spock sometime before his death and that Kirk wanted it delivered to Spock in the future as a farewell.”
/The Tholian Web…
they could still to the pre 1701B shatner, his death scene is the lamest excuse ever.
and howard is da man! he should be a trek villain!
he would have been better than that schmoe in ‘insurrection’
again, lets all say it together.
’shatner as kirk in this new film has nothing to do with ressurecting kirk from the dead’
okay, everyone on the same page?
I do believwe that Shatner was unhappy with his character’s death as soon as 1 year after Generations premiered. It was about this time that he hired Judith and Garfield to write “The Return”
#172
Nimoy turned down both directing and being featured in Generations because he thought the story was crap. And hey, guess what? Most people seem to have agreed with him. He was vocal in his reservations about Trek V as well, which I believe is the reason people feel reassured when he tells us this film is in good hands. He seems to have a fair idea of what constitutes good Trek and bad Trek.
I’d say this should settle the issue once and for all. JJ & co wrote a story that didn’t feature Shatner’s Kirk as a central character, and Bill didn’t want a cameo. I don’t think that makes either of them bad people, it’s just the reality of the situation.
#70–You said,”We don’t know anything about this story … other than it’s going to be a lot different from what we’ve seen so far. Looks very much like a reboot. If it’s in alternate timeline, previously dead people can live again.”
We do know that it is JJ’s story, and he does not seem to think there is a way to make Shatner’s Kirk’s return fit. What we know is limited to that, I agree, but that IS what we have to go on.
You went on to respond to this:
“And the ‘fanboys’ will not make the studio their money back.”
“I don’t believe anyone said they would. closet, since you respond to every sentence I type with 6 paragraphs, yet don’t seem to “hear” a thing I am saying, I’m not sure we should continue with this!”
Well, Shatner fan, I am sorry that my continued comments frustrate you. It is not personal, but as long as you continue to post about why you believe Mr. Abrams should have put him in, I’m afraid that I am inclined to defend his right and decision not to do so. While I hope that does not offend you, as that is not my intention, the truth is that only you can decide what it is you allow to bother you or not. My comments are also in no way limited to your posts.
#50–No, it is a new work of art by JJ Abrams. You do not have to be William Shakespeare to have a right to your own vision as to how you wish to create your own work of art, and that is as true of a Star Trek film(within that fictional universe, of course) as it was of Shakespeare’s Macbeth.
#103–I have to say, “fair enough.” Glad to hear you will give it a chance.
#106–The difference in your analogy about Cloverfield is that it is a stand alone film (at least to this point), and there was/is no established history outside of that to handicap the story. As far as your “Alien” analogy, you are correct. “Alien:Ressurection” was horrible, and part of the reason it was doomed from the start is that they felt they could not do an “Alien” film without Sigourney Weaver. It would have had a much better chance of success if they had simply written a good story which did not involve the character of Ripley (who was dead at that point in the timeline–hmmm, where have I heard that theme before?).
#110–That is rather irrelevant, considering Bill told JJ he did not want a cameo anyway. Why does Bill get a pass on that with you, while JJ does not? Or did you somehow read that “distracting” comment differently than I did?
#116–I do not blame Shatner for declining to do a cameo. Such an appearance would only serve to give some fans the gratuitous Shat they are asking for. I don’t expect Bill to care about that, especially with all of that Boston Legal $$ coming in. This just gives credence to the argument, made by some, that Bill does not want to do Star Trek unless he is the “star” in Trek. If he has somehow changed his mind about doing a cameo, then he really screwed up with all of those insults he hurled publicly about JJ’s decision making on this project. Perhaps he never got the “do not burn your bridges” antectdote.
#122–That just means you are more of a Shatner fan than a Star Trek fan. And that is okay. You can still see Boston Legal, TJ Hooker reruns, and your TOS DVD’s (I know I enjoy them). But I’ll be at the movie.
#123–I like that attitude and approach. Frankly, I was disappointed with most Trek spinoffs (beginning with “Farpoint”). But I have been waiting a long time for something like this, and will give it every opprotunity to succeed in my eyes.
#173–Oh, ctiii. I’m just going to let that one go. As if!!! Your scenario involves Spock acting in a way unbefitting his character—risking altering the timeline, rather immorally, for personal reasons. I wouldn’t mind a “flashback” scenario that depicted Kirk prior to boarding the Enterprise-B, but 1) that would amount to a cameo, which Bill doesn’t want to do; and 2) that does not guarantee a fit into JJ’s story.
You are knocking JJ’s creativity level simply because he is not telling the story YOU want him to tell. Maybe you can talk Paramount into giving YOU a budget to make YOUR Star Trek movie.
#177–Someone else’s movie. Actually, that sounds like a novel to me. It’s not horrible, and it’s rather creative, but forgive me if I would prefer to put my faith in JJ–knowing his script has the approval of Leonard Nimoy, and the set designs and acting( portrayal of the TOS characters) now have the admiration and respect of Mr. Cawley (who has, up to this point, been an outspoken critic of any deviation from the original).
The Shatner thing is highly annoying.
This has to have been Abrams reasoning all along. So why the hell did they get people’s hopes up saying they were desperate to have him in the movie and go on for months and months saying the issue isn’t settled?
JJ you and your pals have given fans false hopes when you should have been fair to us at comicon and said you couldn’t give him a cameo and he doesn’t fit in the story. We’d all accepted before then he wasn’t going to be in it. You’ve been extremely unfair and messed with people’s feelings over this.
This will be known as the film that Shatner wasn’t in. I think I’m going to jump off the good ship Enterprise hybrid and enjoy my TOS DVDs. Trek 11? You’ve talked yourself out a ticket here for the sloppy handling of this whole affair and your constant snubbing of Bill Shatner in favour of all your industry pals. The man hasn’t even been invited to visit the set. I find it disgusting. I’ll keep an eye out for Gods of Men, TOS remastered and New Voyages and enjoy the return of Indiana Jones and Rambo, whilst forgetting new Star Trek because it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I don’t feel sorry for myself tho. I feel sorry for Bill. I don’t think anyones been made to feel more outcast from his own franchise as Bill has.
Bottom line is you couldn’t come up with anything better than a fanfic — speaks volumes. And you choose the story that you’re using as an excuse that he doesn’t fit into. Makes me wonder how you’d feel if someone killed off Jennifer Garner in Alias by slipping on a banana skin, and refocussed the show on Carl Lumbly. Then did a spin off movie set in a time when she was still alive but recast her with a younger actress and didn’t even let Garner on the set.
“”"”"Bottom line is you couldn’t come up with anything better than a fanfic — speaks volumes. And you choose the story that you’re using as an excuse that he doesn’t fit into. Makes me wonder how you’d feel if someone killed off Jennifer Garner in Alias by slipping on a banana skin, and refocussed the show on Carl Lumbly. Then did a spin off movie set in a time when she was still alive but recast her with a younger actress and didn’t even let Garner on the set. “”"”
This is the best post I’ve read in a LONG time! My thoughts exactly.
Okery. Why is everyone so irked about no shatner. I’m glad JJ is pointing out the obvious. THE MAN DIED. KIRK DIED. and, #2… a great story doesn’t neccesarily have EVERYTHING IN IT. The original Spock, The original Kirk, the kitchen sink. If it doesn’t fit with the story. Then it doesn’t work. And if a cameo is not an option for shatner, then you would have to make him a major plot point. And that would be like going GENERATIONS on poor JJ. I mean look at that film. It had so many things that were “required” of it that it turned out to be crap. I’m afraid if JJ became “required” to stick Shatner in the movie as a major plot point, that movie would turn out to be crap. just think of GENERATIONS every time you think Shanter must be in the movie.
All: Go back to TWOK. Pre-release screenings revealed that the general audience was disappointed with the death of Spock, so that scene “Remember, I have no time to discuss this logically” was filmed after those screenings because Paramount wanted an out for a sequel. Nimoy said yes, but only if he could direct.
Perhaps the idea of Kirk as an old man didn’t resonate with what was most likely a young test audience. Maybe old Spock here is like Yoda in SW. A wise old alien sage with pointed ears with an interestin