Exclusive Interview: Roberto Orci On All The Latest With Star Trek (and more) | TrekMovie.com
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Exclusive Interview: Roberto Orci On All The Latest With Star Trek (and more) December 9, 2008

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Fringe,Interview,Orci/Kurtzman,Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback

There has been a lot of big news regarding the new Star Trek movie over the last few weeks, so TrekMovie decided to check in with co-writer and exec producer Roberto Orci to get his take on recent events, including answering some of the questions and comments that are on fan’s minds. See below for part 1 of TrekMovie’s exclusive new interview with Orci. [minor spoilers]


 

TrekMovie: Last month was a pretty big month, starting with Entertainment Weekly and then the trailer and previews, how does it feel now to have so much out in the open after such a long period of secrecy?

Roberto Orci: Kind of awkward for me and Alex [Kurtzman], because we were so used to being secretive about it. Even though it was an official trailer we almost panicked, like ‘oh my god its out there now!’ We are like abused dogs who are now living in a nice home, we weren’t used to it.

TrekMovie: You were used to just giving your name and WGA serial number?

Roberto Orci: Exactly [laughs]. We were used to saying we had only seen four lights instead of three lights.

TrekMovie: Nice reference…A lot of what has happened in the last month seems to be geared towards getting the rest of the world aware of what the Trekkies and the geek world have known. What is the feeling now, amongst the ‘Supreme Court’, about how things have played out, in the mainstream media?

Roberto Orci: I think we are all very encouraged and grateful, that it seemed to get a pretty good reception. And people who didn’t know Star Trek really took note of it and it seemed to actually create just the right impression that this was going to be something fresh.

TrekMovie: As JJ [Abrams] has been going around, especially in foreign countries where Trek hasn’t played as well, he has been saying things that have got the notice of Star Trek fans. Things like "I’m not a Star Trek fan" and "this movie is not made for Star Trek fans" and that kind of stuff. Some Star Trek fans have reacted wondering if this movie really isn’t for us. Is that a fair criticism?

Roberto Orci: I can see how if you are a fan, you can go ‘uh oh.’ I think it is just reflecting, what he has said himself, that he didn’t think he was going to direct this movie, and when he says he wasn’t a fan, of course he was aware of Star Trek and had scene it and admired it, along with Twilight Zone and some of the other shows that he really likes. But I don’t think he ever imagined himself taking over a year of his life and devoting it to Star Trek and that is what he means. I think quotes reflect how much he surprised himself in how much he came to love it even more. And he went through that process without knowing it as well as all of us crazy fans, and from a much more general audience point of view, like everyone else. That is what he means by ‘not for the fans’, he thinks it is going to appeal to more than just the fans and I certainly don’t think he means to exclude them. Too many die-hards worked on this movie for it to not be for fans.

We can liken almost anything to something that happened on The Next Generation, because The Next Generation covered almost every story that there is. As fans – when JJ is out there saying things that prickled our pointy ears, we just think of him like Riker in the episode ["A Matter of Honor"] which he had to go be the first officer on board a Klingon ship in an exchange program. On that ship when someone talks back to you, you would have to beat them down or you lose the respect of your crew, which is protocol, whereas on a Federation ship that would be a crime. So we have to give JJ a little bit of leeway, when he is traveling the galaxy over there where they don’t know Trek, to say the things that need to be said in order to get people onto our side.     

TrekMovie: Everything that has come out over the last month has answered a lot of questions, but also raised new ones. The first of which came up recently, related to Captain Robau, who was revealed on the new Intel site [boldlygo.intel.com]. Can you talk about who he is and what his background is, like his being from Cuba.

Roberto Orci: As you know, the [USS] Kelvin is named after, not only the same scientist with the temperature scale named after him, but also JJ’s grandfather. And the captain of that ship, Richard Robau, is named after my uncle, who was born in Cuba. One of the things we talked about early on, was where was Uhura born? Does Sulu have to be Japanese? And it occurred to us that, in the future, the borders that exist now won’t exist then. So you can be born somewhere, and raised somewhere else, and live somewhere else, and even sometimes off Earth. So I always imagined that Capt Robau was born in Cuba, but then grew up in the Middle-East.


Richard Robau (Faran Tahir)

TrekMovie: With regards to that Intel website. You and your team are providing the content for that website?

Roberto Orci: Yes.

TrekMovie: So should we consider that website canon? For example, all that you just described is not actually in the movie correct?

Roberto Orci: Right. I guess until it is in a movie or a show, technically right, isn’t that correct? I would have to check with the rest of the Supreme Court, but I would think that anything that is considered a promotional website is not canon.

TrekMovie: Well the bigger issue is more [Star Trek movie prequel comic] "Star Trek: Countdown" and whether or not that is considered canon. That is not a promotional thing, that is a…. thing thing. Your name, JJ’s name is on it and Alex’s name is on it. So canon or not canon?

Roberto Orci: I don’t think that is for me to decide. As you know I considered some of the books, in my mind, to be of character canon. And some of them in between the movies to possibly be even possible candidates for canon, until some other movie comes along and makes those impossible. That is my personal view, but I am not going to declare whether comics are canon.

TrekMovie: There is a difference between a regular comic and a comic with your guys names on it. To extend the canon metaphor, you are like a writer of the gospels, so does it apply when you are writing other stuff, like comics? Who makes that decision?

Roberto Orci: I don’t know, I think it will be a majority vote.

TrekMovie: Well I can run poll, but I was looking for something more official. Trek fans like rules and I think would like to be told, yes it is or no it isn’t as opposed to leaving it up to themselves, because then it is actually ‘fanon’ and not ‘canon.’

Roberto Orci: Why don’t we say for now, that this current court has not taken up that case and it can yet rule.

TrekMovie: Speaking of "Countdown", does the series take place before or after Star Trek Nemesis?

Roberto Orci: After.

TrekMovie: On the Enterprise being built in Iowa — It is amazing that in January after the first trailer, where the ship was being built was the hottest topic. It seem after the second trailer, it still is the hottest topic. Are you surprised this is such a big deal to fans?

Roberto Orci: No, not at all. From the minute we pulled that fan photo of the Enterprise being built in a ship yard – we showed that to JJ as a way to get him excited and to show him how grounded Star Trek could be, literally [laughs]. And he really locked onto that image. We showed with the caveat that if we went down that road, there would be some strong fan reaction, but that we thought we could justify it, but we knew if from second one.

TrekMovie: And do you have any internal reasoning why the ship is being built in Riverside Iowa instead of San Francisco.

Roberto Orci: Yes.


Fan image (left) inspired ‘grounded’ Enterprise construction

TrekMovie: Is the cop in the trailer a robot or a guy in the mask?

Roberto Orci: In my mind, there is a person under there. But there is nothing in the movie that says one way or another. But in reading some of Roddenberry’s thoughts and dissertations about Star Trek, there was always a hesitance to deny the human spirit and deny the human side of it. There is a small part of me that thinks an android cop would be against Roddenberry’s instincts. However, Mr. Data is clearly a central canon figure, so you can argue it either way. I don’t think there is anything in the movie that commits it one way or the other. It is in the eye of the beholder.

TrekMovie: Regarding the alien security officer on the Kelvin, Alnschloss K’Bentayr, is that character in any way related to Arex from The Animated Series?

Roberto Orci: Not in our minds, but possibly in the designer’s. You would have to ask the designer.

TrekMovie: Is the character make-up and puppetry, or CGI?

Roberto Orci: A little bit of both, mostly make-up and puppetry. That particular alien was actually was sitting on the set. JJ wanted to as much real stuff as possible, which is not typical for this type of movie in this day and age.

TrekMovie: This brings up one of the more ironic critiques. You guys finally have the budget and resources to create truly alien aliens. Some fans think we should not see any new aliens that we did not see in The Original Series, and some even think that it is Star Trek tradition to do latex-on-forehead aliens and that Trek aliens should be anthropomorphic. That having Star Wars kinds of aliens, breaks with Trek tradition.

Roberto Orci: For the first question, I use the same argument that some use to justify Khan recognition of Chekov [in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan], which is: if you just went to a lower deck in that first season, you might have seen Chekov. So the idea that can’t see a new alien by merely turning the camera some other way on a ship that you might have seen before – I think it is fair to see a new alien. As for the second point, we actually had this conversation where one of the fun alien aliens we read about, I think it was in "Prime Directive," was this octopus creature, that was clearly not anthropomorphic at all. We talked about doing something like that, some stranger creatures, and I think we pushed it a little bit. I don’t think any of them go too far off the realm, but that was something on our minds. I don’t think there has to be a tradition of keeping them anthropomorphic, but I don’t think we strayed too far from that.  


Alnschloss K’Bentayr of the USS Kelvin

TrekMovie: In my four scene preview review, I noted that we see four scenes with  Kirk on an arc, kind of like going from ‘Jerk to Kirk.’ But we only saw two scenes with Spock. Both of which he was in his ‘not holding it together’ mode. This is a function of what we saw, but I hope that is not all we get for Spock. Can you settle my mind on that? Will we be seeing serene and logical Spock as well?

Roberto Orci: I can settle you mind very easily, absolutely. It is both of their movie…There was some worry early on that it was going to be too Spock-centric and we would totally ignore Kirk, as you pointed out we have four Spocks! There is not going to be any dearth of Spock, nor any dearth of classic Spock. Clearly some of the things you are going to see in the trailer are some of the more extreme moments in the movie. Moments that have to be earned by the story, and you are right to be concerned if they are not earned by the story, but plenty of Spock.

TrekMovie: So are you guys being proactively provocative? Like how you got on the cover of the Drudge Report, with the headline "Spock Goes Wild!" Was that kind of the plan, to pick the crazy Spock moments so people will go ‘hey this is different’?

Roberto Orci: I don’t think we anticipated it would go to that degree. We don’t assume that a general audience is going to find that particularly proactive or inconsistent, but apparently, as you pointed out, there are a lot more closet Trekkers out there. So I think there is an element of that. There is an element of wanting to make you feel something that you that you didn’t expect. Seeing a different side of it and not exactly being able to peg it, like ‘oh I didn’t think this was going to be a sci-fi movie, it starts with a Corvette’ or with the ship being built on the ground. It is grounded it to today and to us. So certainly in a trailer you want to pick some of the more proactive moments.

TrekMovie: JJ and yourself and others have talked about how this Star Trek was going to be ‘real.’ And JJ keeps bringing up Galaxy Quest and saying ‘we are not doing a parody’ and ‘we are not doing Galaxy Quest, this is going to be real.’ So I was expecting, when I went to the preview, that I was going to see something in the style of the recent Batman and Bond franchises and how they have done their ‘refreshes.’ A very serious take on Star Trek. So I was a bit surprised, and I wasn’t the only reviewer to note this, that there was so much humor, including slapstick humor. Do you feel that you are running the risk, when your goal is to be serious, that with so much humor the film may be perceived as parody?

Roberto Orci: I don’t think it will be perceived as parody, I am not worried about that at all. I think there is a difference between the word ‘real’ and ‘serious.’ I think it can feel real in a way it has never felt before, and have the humor still be consistent with that. Humor was always a part of Star Trek, and so we had to make sure it  was represented somehow. But I don’t think real and serious are the same thing.

TrekMovie: Is the humor part of an appeal to a larger audience and possibly a younger audience?

Roberto Orci: I don’t think so. The humor in it is trying to be character-specific. We are not trying to do what we accused of doing on Transformers, by some of the hardcore fans. And the humor does not go to those places. I think the humor is much more based on who the characters are.

TrekMovie: Kirk never pees on anyone?

Roberto Orci: That is correct. [laughs]


Star Trek humor, character-specific

TrekMovie: Switching  gears…Fringe wrapped up the first half of the season. Things tended towards more mythology and serialization towards the last few episodes, is that where the show is headed or was it just the last few episodes?

Roberto Orci: We are still trying the exact right balance. We have extreme mythology episodes and there are some that are going to be stand-alone. I think for the fact that were were going down for a while, we wanted to give people are reason to come back.

TrekMovie: The last episode had a Star Wars reference, but there haven’t been any Trek references, are you going to drop any Trek in there?

Roberto Orci: I think is our duty to, don’t you think?

TrekMovie: I would imagine so. Is the Enterprise being built by Massive Dynamics?

Roberto Orci: [laughs] Well after Massive Dynamics is taken over by the state in the semi-utopian communist 23rd century, maybe some of its R&D went into it.

TrekMovie: You guys got pretty Star Trek in the last episode  ["Safe"], with an actual transporter, which can apparently also do time travel. The show has been about ‘fringe’ science, but that is pretty serious science fiction. Is that an anomaly or are you going to go deeper into heavy sci-fi? 

Roberto Orci: You know, one step forward, two steps back. We are finding it.


Fringe adds transporter to its ‘fringe science’

TrekMovie: With all the talk about the Superman franchise, have they come to you and Alex yet?

Roberto Orci: Superman the sequel? No.

TrekMovie: Do you know if your brother-in-law is going to be in it? [Editor’s note: Brandon Routh is married to Bob’s sister]

Roberto Orci: I would imagine so. How are you going to find a better Superman?

TrekMovie: What are you working on now besides Fringe?

Roberto Orci: We are writing Cowboys and Aliens with Damon Lindelof. We got a great draft from Fergus and Ostby, who wrote Iron Man, and now we are into the second draft and trying to put it together.

TrekMovie: Speaking for Damon, so are you guys ever going to write an episode for Lost? I am surprised after working with JJ and Damon that you haven’t got around to that.

Roberto Orci: Who has time?

TrekMovie: JJ has been talking a little bit about sequels to Star Trek. You previously said that Paramount wanted to lock you down for that. So have they locked the lock yet?

Roberto Orci: No we are still talking about it. It is so hard to talk about it before you even finish the first movie. We consider it bad luck to get locked down before finish everything on your plate.

TrekMovie: But could you imagine going into development on that before the film is released in May?

Roberto Orci: Sure. Absolutely we could imagine that.

TrekMovie: Speaking of the Star Trek film being finished. How close to finished is it? Isn’t mid December the target to finish it?

Roberto Orci: We are still in the sound mix. That is still the target, but we may go over a bit to get the sound down together. The sound is really hard on this one because you want it to be cutting edge and it is complicated. It is not just Central Park with cars driving by.

TrekMovie: Have you had a full screening of an almost complete version, from beginning to end?

Roberto Orci: No, I saw an early version of it without almost any effects, but still the whole movie. But then I have been seeing sequences here and there but I have been trying to save the experience for myself as much as I can actually and try to see it in its final form, before I see it too many times. 


The wait is not over yet for Orci to see the whole Star Trek movie in it’s final form

 

More Orci
Coming up later this week we will have part 2 of this interview, where we dive deep into the the canon and science of the new Star Trek movie.

Comments

1. screaming satellite - December 9, 2008

wow thats a lotta big

2. krikzil - December 9, 2008

Interesting about the Supeman in-law connection.

3. screaming satellite - December 9, 2008

I forgot all about that fan image of the Enterprise construction…

Regarding Countdown – Its interesting that its set after Nemesis..I guess that’s ‘B4’ on the cover

4. Denise de Arman - December 9, 2008

Thanks for the interview Anthony and Mr. Bob.

5. Enterprise - December 9, 2008

Great Interview. Does anyone think Bob looks a little bit like Eric Roberts (it’s a compliment!)

6. Closettrekker - December 9, 2008

“Too many die-hards worked on this movie for it to not be for fans.”—-Roberto Orci.

:)

7. hitch1969© is back in 2008. - December 9, 2008

I would imagine that part 2 of the interview certainly would have some sort of referenz™ to the fact that the fan base has renamed him The OrcSter™ and his approval slash disapprovals of such nomenclature.

Yo OrcSter, hitch1969 is back, because you ain’t yella.

THE WOMEN!!

=h=

8. Dom - December 9, 2008

3. screaming satellite ‘Regarding Countdown – Its interesting that its set after Nemesis..I guess that’s ‘B4’ on the cover’

Or maybe Data turns out to be alive! Roberto’s throwing some nice little titbits to the scary canon brigade as well. I’m amazed he had to point out that JJ doing the ‘I wasn’t a Trek fan’ spiel was part of what you have to do to sell it to a non-Trek crowd. How thick are the people who got offended by that. Isn’t it obvious?

These guys are on our side, taking Trek back to the mainstream!

9. Dom - December 9, 2008

Oh yeah! And thanks for the interview guys! :)

10. YARN - December 9, 2008

Wow, we’re now being fed plots from TNG as explanations. “See, gang, J.J. is just acting like Riker in that episode of TNG where he had to promote a movie on Albidair 6 and diss core fandom to get the respect of the press.”

Enough already, he was not a fan of Trek (nor was Meyer, who gave us the best Trek film of all), so what? He is not making a movie for fans, but a wide audience (as did Meyer). BIG DEAL. But how stupid are we suppose to be to think that we (the true insiders – ha!) are being let in on some elaborate strategy (Yes, JJ. is an absolute fan of Trek — it’s just a game.)

11. garen - December 9, 2008

good questions anthony. great conversation. you really seem to portray whats generally on all of our minds.

thanks for trying to clear up some questions about COUNTDOWN. He was very vague, eh? I hope he is correct in saying that the comic takes place AFTER Nemesis. i will consider it canon, that way in my mind Data is alive and well….somehow. (if that truly is Data pictured on the cover)

12. ~~TARA~~ - December 9, 2008

It is so great to read these interviews. I am really looking forward to this movie!!!

13. THE GOVERNATOR - December 9, 2008

Good Interview!

14. Wes - December 9, 2008

But, meyer still respected Trek canon. What a long and drawn out interview. At this point, everyone is just waiting to see how they have rewritten everything, and not waiting to hear the fluff. Lets ask him, why Simon Pegg in that scene looks like he is wired up on drugs? He sounded like a druggie in that scene.

15. Scott Xavier - December 9, 2008

Great. More Obama esque dodging of direct questions.

16. the king in shreds and tatters - December 9, 2008

“Roberto Orci: [laughs] Well after Massive Dynamics is taken over by the state in the semi-utopian communist 23rd century, maybe some of its R&D went into it.”

Haha, sweet.

17. Vorus - December 9, 2008

As much as JJ’s comments and the new trailer killed my buzz for this movie, Orci’s comments always bring a little of it back. At least SOMEONE involved in the film seems to be on the side of the hard-core fans.

Good for you, Orci!!

18. hitch1969© is back in 2008. - December 9, 2008

Well, say hello to my little friend. Could it be that the new Scotty has got a Tony Montana pile o’ ya-yo? Is this what its all about? Eating? Drinking?…..

=h=

19. Sean - December 9, 2008

Great interview! Finally someone who answers some questions!

20. screaming satellite - December 9, 2008

speaking of Twilight Zone (think i remember abrams said that was his fave sci fi show)…maybe we’ll see a homage or two to that (and maybe Outer Limits) in the new film

lets not forget that TZ/OL have some fairly strong Trek connections…(Shatner and Nimoy..plus i think i read that some Outer Limits aliens cameoed in Trek VI)

21. Donn - December 9, 2008

Brent Spiner on the cover of Countdown does not necessarily mean B4, or that Data is alive after Nemesis. Countdown could contain some kind of flashback, or begin its story before Nemesis and then move forward to afterward to lead up to the film. Heck, for all we know, Spock makes stop-over on his way back in time to talk to Data.

22. Anthony Pascale - December 9, 2008

by the way, I have taken Bob’s suggestion and put up a poll to vote on if COUNTDOWN should be considered canon. Although I would still prefer a ruling from The Supreme Court or Paramount on that.

23. hitch1969© is back in 2008. - December 9, 2008

data an the orcster sitting in a tree
classic trek plus TNG
first comes comic
then comes movie
then comes some high priced hollywood prostitutes and industry grade speedballs!!

thats what i am talking about.

=h=

24. G-Grasper - December 9, 2008

Very intersting!
Thanks for that.

25. ScreenRant.com - December 9, 2008

“is taken over by the state in the semi-utopian communist 23rd century,”

ROFLMAO!!

Well at least he acknowledges that aspect of Star Trek. 8-)

Great interview, Anthony!

Vic

26. screaming satellite - December 9, 2008

with Countdown – its an almost identical situation to the Superman Returns 4 prequel comics written by the director and 2 writers of that film

I think they are pretty much considered canon (as they basically recounted parts of the 1978 film..which was nice considering there had never been a comic adaptaion of it)..so i dont see why ST Countdown cant be canon…i know thats gonna be strange considering all novels and comics are considered non canon in the Trekverse

27. John from Cincinnati - December 9, 2008

I truly liked this interview and I really enjoy hearing from Orci, he seems to be very engaged (no pun intended) with the franchise.

28. Jeffries Tuber - December 9, 2008

If this tidbit about the fanpic of Enterprise being constructed on Earth doesn’t set off a tidal wave of speculative art, nothing will. Some dude with Photoshop just affected canon. Amazing what the Internet makes possible.

PRIME DIRECTIVE has a glass spider, I think, but no octopus-like alien. I’ve been pretty stridently opposed to latex forehead aliens, but I have to admit I was persuaded somewhat by the argument that only Oxygen-breathers and species from near-Earth gravity can serve Starfleet.

Starting to think that Kurtzman is a Morlock, forced to write in a windowless room while Orci eats grapes and monitors our blog posts.

29. screaming satellite - December 9, 2008

oh and speaking of films that didnt get a comic adaptaion – someone should do a Wrath of Khan comic as that the only ST film that didnt get one (well Insurrection and Nemesis didnt eitheR but who cares right)

30. steve623 - December 9, 2008

“when JJ is out there saying things that prickled our pointy ears, we just think of him like Riker in the episode [“A Matter of Honor”] which he had to go be the first officer on board a Klingon ship in an exchange program. On that ship when someone talks back to you, you would have to beat them down or you lose the respect of your crew, which is protocol, whereas on a Federation ship that would be a crime. So we have to give JJ a little bit of leeway, when he is traveling the galaxy over there where they don’t know Trek, to say the things that need to be said in order to get people onto our side.”

Translation: he’s embarrassed to be associated with you publicly but not too embarrassed to still take your money. Hilarious!

31. Kertrats - December 9, 2008

I like this story! It’s excitin’!

;)

32. Harry Ballz - December 9, 2008

Bob, please be sure to tell your brother-in-law, Brandon Routh, that his portrayal of Superman was perfect!*

The movie itself had flaws, but he was superb!

*(this opinion, by the way, is from the pickiest SOB on the planet)

33. Capt Mike from the Terran Empire - December 9, 2008

AllI want to know is this. Is there a big or special Surprise we will see in the New Movie. I have asked this beforeand i wouild still like an answer. But Great Interview.

34. MORN SPEAKS - December 9, 2008

Great Interview! Helps my Star Trek fix.

35. MrLirpa - December 9, 2008

Great interview, many thanks. I just love that Roberto is a big Trek fan and knows enough to make subtle little refrences that only “us” fans would get.

It gives me faith in this movie. I’m really looking forward to seeing how they stitch the story together. it’s going to br fun.

36. Anthony Pascale - December 9, 2008

BY the way, I updated the interview to make it clearer. COUNTDOWN takes place AFTER Nemesis, I double checked this with Bob after doing the interview

37. DavidJ - December 9, 2008

I don’t understand why anybody even CARES if the comics are canon or not. It’s only meant to be a small appetizer for the movie, and is likely going to be just as generic and inconsequential as the SR and TF prequel comics both were.

38. Third Remata'Klan - December 9, 2008

Great interview, thanks!

People are upset about the alien on the Kelvin? You gotta be kiddin’ me! (I think he looks fantastic.) It amazes me what people will b*tch about….

39. SexyAsianGurl - December 9, 2008

33# please dont ask that, some of us don’t want to know the whole damn movie before we see it.

40. S. John Ross - December 9, 2008

Very groovy interview; a good read.

Speaking selfishly, I wish it had addressed some (or any) of my (few, but daunting) concerns about the film, but as long as we’re wishin, I want a Miranda-class starship for Christmas :)

Thanks for the site for providing it and to Mr. Orci for taking the time.

41. Anthony Pascale - December 9, 2008

40,

i don’t know what your issues are, but just wait for part 2…some juicy stuff in that part

42. CanuckLou - December 9, 2008

Great interview. Thanks to Mr. Orci and this site.

….and the adventure continues….

43. i like this ship...it's exciting!!! - December 9, 2008

anthony…could you ask bob if indeed it’s B-4 on the countdown cover or if it is a resurrected Data? also could you see if you could convince bob to talk to the appropriate people to intermix a couple real songs into the film? example: britney spears’ ‘womanizer’ could be played in the bar when kirk hits on uhura..,lol and hilary duff’s ‘reach out’ could play over the scene where kirk’s gettin it on with rachel nichols’ orion cadet, and a classic, coolio’s ‘gangsta’s paradise’ could be worked in as a nero theme LOL

44. Hat Rick - December 9, 2008

I cannot believe how detailed this interview was. Excellent stuff.

45. rationaloptimism - December 9, 2008

He busts right out with a “Chain of Command” reference.

Regarding the non-anthapamorphic races. So, the problem is only with them being in StarFleet right?
No one is saying there shouldn’t be non-anthapmorhs in the trek universe in general right?
How come no one is mentioning the TNG episode that explained it all: The Chase?

I would mind a Non-anthropomorphous Starfleet officer, if it’s job could still be performed.

46. Blowback - December 9, 2008

Good read.

I hope we can keep the interesting articles going until May because I really like stopping by Trekmovie on a daily basis.

Now…. Off to discover the identity of the Final Cylon!

47. AJ - December 9, 2008

Anthony, I think the question is not whether “Countdown” should be added as Canon, but whom should be dubbed the “Decider” of canon in general.

We had GR and his team, Harve Bennett, and Nimoy and Shatner, and finally, Gene with Rick Berman and then his various teams.

I think Roberto should be the current Steward, or at least some modified version of the “Supreme Court.” He has the thing now, and should not be worried about managing it.

Of course, it’s not up to me or us, but if he and Mr. Lindelof write a decent Trek film, we’ll probably start assuming it anyway ;-).

If Trek is successful, and leads on to TV again, who better to kick it off?

48. rationaloptimism - December 9, 2008

47-

I agree, if this new film is successful let’s at least PUT Orci on the court.
He seems to know his trek.
Along with that husband and wife team who show up on all the commentaries.
Can’t remember their names, but I’m sure someone here can…and will.

49. ThePhaige - December 9, 2008

That was a nice interview. About time some of the more difficult questions were asked, and the answerer were equally eloquent and sincere. Good read and cant wait.

50. The Last Maquis - December 9, 2008

Yeah Sure, whatever.

51. Oregon Trek Geek - December 9, 2008

I think I should be the one who decides what’s canon or not. :D

52. Ron Mosher - December 9, 2008

Thank you Anthony and you as well Bob. A great interview.

53. I'm Not an Effect! - December 9, 2008

A good read indeed. Thanks to both of you.

54. K.M.Kirby - December 9, 2008

That guy in the mask?

Spock.

55. spiked canon - December 9, 2008

I like that dude. Everytime I read an interview or even a blurb on here he just relates to reality.

Trek is in good hands or it was never meant to be…

56. SChaos1701 - December 9, 2008

Great interview Anthony. I love how you incorporated Databrain’s “concerns” into it…lol. God I can’t wait for this film!

57. Steve - December 9, 2008

Great interview.

I’d like to find out more about Nero and if, indeed, Rura Penthe is where he escapes from; if it is Rura Penthe, that’s a great use of a setting we’ve all seen before.

58. Gavvo - December 9, 2008

if we could get some clarification on the whole b4/data issue that would be great

also, how are the klingon ridges going to be handled?????

59. table10 - December 9, 2008

I love these types of in depth pieces, where we get alot of the backstage story, and alot of the thought processes of the creators at this point in the production.

Fascinating interview and a huge thank you to both mr Orci and Anthony :)

60. Dom - December 9, 2008

‘the semi-utopian communist 23rd century,’

As opposed to the utopian fascist 24th century! ;)

61. AdamTrek - December 9, 2008

Bob’s a commie, I knew it!

To many coincidences.

Bygones.

=A=

62. Pete359 - December 9, 2008

#57

If it is Rura Penthe as many have said it still confuses me slightly. Nero is a Post-Nemesis Romulan right? So is he in prison in the Post-Nemesis era or in the past? I say that because the Klingon guards in that brief clip of him escaping have those helmets on (which I assume they included to not get bogged down in the ridges/Augment virus mess).

So yeah, slightly confusing but not really that important.

I’m looking forward to the TNG-era scenes and the sequence I remember from ages back (not sure if it’s still valid) but of the Yesterday’s Enterprise-type alternate timeline.

Don’t supposed you can confirm or deny anything Bob O?

Great interview by the way, but you’re right you’re still in the secrecy mind set, Section 31 would be proud. ;)

63. Q Macedonia - December 9, 2008

Great interview Anthony. Can’t wait till Part 2. :)))

64. screaming satellite - December 9, 2008

re Superman ‘2’

I hope if Orci and Kurtzman end up doing it..

they have at least one supervillian – maybe do Brainiac…hes had two ‘almosts’ with the original draft to Superman III and aborted ‘The new Movie’ in the early 90s

more ACTION!..

brighten that suit!

Lose the kid!

oh yeah and for the love of god RECAST Lois!!

65. Jamesintucson - December 9, 2008

please Mr. Orci, let us know what the devil those red handle looking things are all over the place on the bridge. It’s driving me crazy every time I see them.

66. Devon - December 9, 2008

Good read. Thanks Bob and thanks Anthony!

One thing I do like about Bob is he does acknowledge and accept responsibility for his work, even if criticised (as per the comments about Transformers, etc.) It would appear that anything they are doing in this movie is being done fully aware of what could happen, rather than blindly telling themselves “Who cares?,” etc.

67. Q Macedonia - December 9, 2008

Ups, I forgot.

I don’t know if this question is treated in Part 2. But Bob, if you are out there i would appreciate an answer.

I’ve been talking with some fans, especially female, and they have really strong concerns, that Uhura’s character, a TV icon that inspired the women and black community in the 60’s, is reduced down to a boob-joke. And from the 20 minute review, I can’t blame them for their concernes. So how is Uhura portrayed actually? Because I know that for a lot of people, that character is one of the most important ones. Especially when we don’t have Pike’s Number One, and Yeoman Rand. And we haven’t heard much about her so far.

What can the women expect from the movie?

To be clear… It’s a guy that is asking. :)))

But I would love to shot their mouths for thrashing down the movie. So Bob, if you can help me out here. :)

P.S. I will repost this question in every future thread until I get an answer. :P

68. The Underpants Monster - December 9, 2008

Everything – every last blessed thing – boils down to “Is it a good story? It it a solid, meaty, meaningful story?” We know about 25% of the story right now, and from where I’m sitting the answer to all those questions is a solid, resounding “No.” I’m not ruling out the possibility that the remaining 75% of the story might make up for that, but I’m not terribly optimistic. If I was releasing a preview I think I’d put all the best bits in it.

69. Dom - December 9, 2008

62. Pete359: ‘If it is Rura Penthe as many have said it still confuses me slightly. Nero is a Post-Nemesis Romulan right? So is he in prison in the Post-Nemesis era or in the past? I say that because the Klingon guards in that brief clip of him escaping have those helmets on (which I assume they included to not get bogged down in the ridges/Augment virus mess).’

Maybe Nero is in prison on Rura Penthe and is released following the collapse of the Romulan Empire in the TNG era!

70. Pete359 - December 9, 2008

#69 “Maybe Nero is in prison on Rura Penthe and is released following the collapse of the Romulan Empire in the TNG era!”

Yeah I can see that, but the helmets make me think the Klingons started wearing those when their ridges started disappearing Post-ENT / Pre-TOS.

Eh, like I said only a minor thing.

71. David (Flaming Wings Forever) - December 9, 2008

Nice interview. Great, in that again my fears are put to rest, nice in that it doesn’t really say much more than has already been said.

72. McCoy's Gall Bladder - December 9, 2008

I’m satisfied with the interview, but I still wanna slap the designers The secondary hull isnt big enough. I love that they used the movie primary hull, but that secondary hull, even if it was built in a hurry and is intended to be replaced is still too small to support the crew. Remember Trek ships were intended to be modular.

I have been on real ships. I know that everything has a place and no space is wasted. The current secondary hull is too small to support the mission. I dont mind that the nacelles look goofy. I just hate the engineering hull.

Is it too late to hire Gabe Koerner?

The story seems lifted from Shatner’s The Return with a Romulan revenge fantasy against Kirk.

All we need is Samuel L Jackson saying “I’m tired of these mf Romulans on this mf plane!”

When is Sam Jackson going to be the biggest bad ass in Trek? His bad assness was wasted in Star Wars. I wanna see him kick Kirk’s ass.

“I’m sorry, did I break your concentration?”
“What aint no country I ever heard of.”
“Do they speak English in What?”
“My ass may be dumb, but I aint no dumbass.”

Surely you can write such jewels for SLJ in Trek.

“You will know I am the Klingon High Chancellor when I lay my vengeance upon you!”

I’d love to see SLJ as the enemy in Trek 2012: Trekageddon.

Kruge was Chris Lloyd, Reverend Jim of Taxi. SLJ can be the next incarnation of Khan. or a really bad ass Borg King Pimp. “Can I get a Holla?”

Those red handles are Batphones…

You kids know I’m just playin… dont get your panties in a twist

BobO: I still like the story. It’s not too late to change the ship…

Keep it real in the Trek hood

73. McCoy's Gall Bladder - December 9, 2008

PS: If anyone here has ever read “I Am Spock” you know that Nimoy believes that he OWNS Spock and what he says about Spock goes.

By that logic, Shatner OWNS Kirk as well

And Paskey? He OWNS Mr Leslie.

Rock on!

74. Closettrekker - December 9, 2008

#67—If your friends have such concerns over what was seen in the trailer, then perhaps you should encourage them to read some of the reviews of the 20 minutes of footage already shown to critics (if they are not opposed to spoilers). Apparently, Uhura has more to do than ever before, something which has been said many times (in past articles) long before that footage was even shown publicly or the trailer was released.

There is nothing in those reviews suggesting that Uhura is somehow slighted, and certainly not that she is somehow reduced to a “boob joke”.

Her role is more important and vital to the story than ever before.

More importantly, you should discourage them from drawing conclusions about a 2 hour movie, based soely upon what is shown in a 2 minute trailer that is mean to attract a non-traditional audience to a Star Trek film.

75. montreal paul - December 9, 2008

Great interview Anthony. I look forward to Part 2.

It was great to see an interview of a Trek fan by a Trek fan. Nice!

76. Closettrekker - December 9, 2008

#62—I think that the canonical explanation in ENT makes it acceptable for Klingons to be depicted with or without ridges in the TOS-era, depending upon whether they are affected or not.

Moreover, it seems far more likely that Nero’s stint in prison (assuming that what is being depicted) is post-Nemesis,and takes place before the timeline incursion—perhaps at the beginning of the film.

The comic prequels should shed some light on this.

77. Dom - December 9, 2008

67. JJ Abrams is famous for having strong females who kick ass in his movies. Have you ever seen the fight scene at the end of Alias season two between two woman? It’s one of the most gruelling fight scenes I’ve ever come across on TV!

He and his team write strong, intelligent, feminine, capable women. I think Uhura’s going to get the best portrayal she’s ever had in a Trek film!

78. Q Macedonia - December 9, 2008

#74 Using the same arguments over and over, and they just can’t seem to see the big picture. God knows I’ve tried.

Maybe you should come down to TrekUnited and help out. :)))

79. Q Macedonia - December 9, 2008

#77

Haven’t watched Alias, but from other JJ products, I don’t doubt that.

Do you really think I should use two girls fighting as an argument? :))

80. Dom - December 9, 2008

Q Macedioni. The ‘boob joke’ remarks are precisely what we’ve come to expect from the loony fringe, from what I’ve seen. These sourpusses are the equivalent of a drunk guy who comes up to you in a bar and starts hassling you, trying to use everything you say as an excuse to punch you!

81. NoRez - December 9, 2008

Can’t really see anything on that Intel site – there were only two places to click on (at least as rendered in Firefox on my Mac); looks like one section has some of the print ads, and the ‘USS Kelvin’ section just seems to have some very, very dark ‘photos’ of the ship. What am I missing here? Aside from a newer, better, computer, I mean….

82. Dom - December 9, 2008

Q Macedonia Well my point is that his women are strong and intelligent, not jokes.

Would you argue with these two?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=N8CE9-FCxGc

83. Q Macedonia - December 9, 2008

#82

Wow. Didn’t see that coming. :)))

Thanks for the link Dom.

/me going to post this link and shut those bi**es! Mwahahah.

84. Dom - December 9, 2008

83. Q Macedonia

Written and directed by none other than JJ Abrams himself!

85. Xplodin' Nacelle - December 9, 2008

I liked his idea about seeing characters, & parts of the ship “that were always there but weren’t on camera.” It stretches the believability factor just enough.

86. Dom - December 9, 2008

85. Xplodin’ Nacelle

Growing up prior to TNG, the only other Trek we had was TAS, a few novels and comicbooks. These were full of different takes on the characters and designs.

One comicbook about trying to stop two planets from colliding had a blond Scotty and all the ship interiors were far more industrial: along the lines of the interiors of the modern Battlestar Galactica.

Wildly different alien races were commonplace in the books and comics. There were even Horta crewmembers! If anything, TNG’s appearance with its TV budgets, actually set back Trek a couple of decades in terms of the non-humanoid crewmembers we had previously perceived to exist but had yet to see!

87. Spocko - December 9, 2008

The origin of the Enterprise’s construction still worries me a bit. It just seems like a big breach in cannon. I can’t waite for part 2 of this interview.

88. Dom - December 9, 2008

87. Spocko: ‘The origin of the Enterprise’s construction still worries me a bit. It just seems like a big breach in cannon.’

How so. You mean about it being built in Iowa or the date of construction? I mean both can easily be retconned!

89. John from Cincinnati - December 9, 2008

I am all for non-anthapamorphic races. Nothing screams ‘campy’ more than having 100 alien races all with the same latex foreheads! Lose the foreheads!

90. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - December 9, 2008

I think Orci is right on with regard to the justification for things like Chekov and the Arex-like alien. Augmenting canon is not contradicting canon. There has to be room to breathe, otherwise canon is more of a hindrance than a boon (and note that I am not advocating abandoning or ignoring canon).

91. Wes - December 9, 2008

everything is canon! -That fixes the problem!

92. SexyAsianGurl - December 9, 2008

LOSE-THE-FOREHEADS

93. Alex Rosenzweig - December 9, 2008

#17 – “As much as JJ’s comments and the new trailer killed my buzz for this movie, Orci’s comments always bring a little of it back. At least SOMEONE involved in the film seems to be on the side of the hard-core fans.”

I’ll say his much for sure. Irrelevant of whether I agree with the creative choices or not, I have no doubts that the people involved are people who care.

#22 – “by the way, I have taken Bob’s suggestion and put up a poll to vote on if COUNTDOWN should be considered canon.”

I voted yes, but then, IMHO, print Trek is as valid a part of the Trekverse as filmed Trek (and in some cases more so!). So I’m not exactly objective. ;)

#28 – “PRIME DIRECTIVE has a glass spider, I think, but no octopus-like alien.”

The “octopus-like” description reminded me a bit of a Sulamid, from Diane Duane’s works, e.g., Spock’s World. I think seeing more non-humanoid aliens is a neat thing!

#90 – “I think Orci is right on with regard to the justification for things like Chekov and the Arex-like alien. Augmenting canon is not contradicting canon.”

Completely agreed on this point.

94. Admiral Waugh - December 9, 2008

First of all:

Terrific comments about canon. Personally, as a life long Trekker (read: Starfleet officer), I have felt exactly the same way about canon. One of the tremendous shames about much of this is that FEDERATION by the Reeves-Stevenses was overruled by Gen & First Contact (as good as FC was and as bad as Gen was). Some books ARE character canon. To include it in the movie is spectacular and gives Trekkers a pat on the back for staying tuned to the books.

RE: semi-utopian Communist. Sigh. It seems the most acceptable compromise between the SEVERAL references to credits and payment (pay particular attention to Mudd’s Women when Kirk is ready to cut a check to the miners) and the silly references of Star Trek IV onward regarding not having money is that, first, Roddenberry started buying into this Utopian stuff people were making up way late in the game, LONG after original series first ran… it’s not quite kosher. So that explains the TNG Kool-Aid. But for Trek IV, Nimoy and Bennett were running Trek and forcing it down our throats. The best way to bring it together is just to say that Kirk and Picard, when they talk about money, mean paper money — not that all forms of exchange except for barter have gone away. That would be LUDICROUS. Money, as we call it, is a tremendous invention that allows us to trade things. If I have too many eggs, I don’t have to accept half a broom to correspond to their value. Instead, we use a medium of exchange to approximate the value. Soooooooooo — let’s just say Picard and Kirk do not understand the terminology, that is, the linguistics of the word ‘money’ have changed by their time. They still use credits, it’s all bits of data, (0s and 1s as Ben Kingsley’s character said in SNEAKERS) and settle it at that??

PLEASE? :)

95. Dom - December 9, 2008

94. Admiral Waugh: ‘not that all forms of exchange except for barter have gone away. That would be LUDICROUS. ‘

Yeah the money thing is so offensively stupid that I simply choose to ignore it! I mean, if the Federation has no money, how do you buy a beer in a bar outside the Federation? :0

96. Dom - December 9, 2008

For that matter, if beer is free, wouldn’t the entire population of the UK have died in a huge binge drinking sesh? ;)

97. Justin Olson - December 9, 2008

Bob Orci:

It was five lights, not three. But you’re right…

THERE

ARE

FOUR

LIGHTS!!!

http://tng.trekcore.com/episodes/scripts/237.txt

98. Xai - December 9, 2008

Bob O.
Thanks for doing the interview.
And I hope the brother -in-law get to don the cape again. He is the best choice. My son-in-law still gets a kick (bad pun) out of saying he played soccer with Superman in high school.

99. mr. mugato - December 9, 2008

I would like to premise my statement by saying El Orco answered directly a question I posted here. The question was pointed. The answer, direct. I appreciated that a great deal. So to that extent I’m prejudiced.

I’ve read more of these comments then I have time for. I believe I have a handle on what’s going on here.

I’m not a super uberfan. I’ve been to two or three conventions. The thing is I have enjoyed Trek in various forms – certainly not all of them – as interesting and satisfying entertainment – for many years and to be frank Spock did change my life (a story too long and complex to go into here).

I will complete this preface by saying when I first heard that “they” were making a new show with different characters playing Kirk, Spock, Bones, etc. I was much more than skeptical. As a result of this skepticism I have been quite negatively critical here on these boards.

Then the other day I was cooking some lunch, not thinking about Trek at all and something popped into my mind. Don’t ask me why because I was frying some onions at the time.

Here it is: When I first heard about TNG I was skeptical to say the least. I was a student at the time and did not have a TV in my hovel. Some kids next door did and we talked about watching it on the night in premiered. We put together a little party and hoped for the best.

We watched as the characters were introduced, we saw a new and what we thought to be a very groovy Enterprise and really liked what we saw.

I liked what I saw so much I scraped up enough dough to buy a set and tuned in to TNG as much as I could.

At this point, if you are still reading, you are most likely wondering what is the point of all this or more aptly what the moral of this story might be.

Here it is: I should not have jumped to conclusions about TNG and I should not have jumped to conclusions about XI. I think these people put their hearts into this project and I have confidence they have gone boldly, so to speak. I hope it’s great and I hope I love it. And I feel bad for posting negative stuff here. The new show might not be perfect but if it’s the right step in the right direction well, imagine the adventures we’re going to have!

Hey, Kirk took all the chances, right?

And for those who accuse me of being obsequious, think again, because this note is from the heart.

100. AdamTrek - December 9, 2008

I want to know what Bob Orci would do if he was given the reigns of all of Trekdom and what would be his first decree to the masses.

101. mr. mugato - December 9, 2008

PS Canon or no I want to see new and interesting aliens. Remember the “launch sequence” scene in the TMP? Many cool heads. i wanted to know more about them. All forehead freaks should be banned. IMHO.

102. Nathan - December 9, 2008

Cool interview…

I’m withholding judgment on the new movie until I learn more about it…but there are certainly many things which make me hopeful it will be every bit as excellent as fellows like Nimoy and Orci indicate it will be…

Here’s to hoping!

103. Xai - December 9, 2008

#99, 102

Good posts.

104. Admiral_BlackCat - December 9, 2008

Very good interview. Bring on Vol. 2!
It seems that the studio has decided that Abrams should connect with the mainstream while Orci connects with the Trekkies.

105. Xai - December 9, 2008

#104 Admiral

Bob Orci has been posting here for a long time. You can ask him directly, but I think it was his idea, not Paramount.

106. Boborci - December 9, 2008

105

Yup

107. Harry Ballz - December 9, 2008

Hey, Bob, will you be kind enough to pass my compliment (#32) along to your brother-in-law?

108. Denise de Arman - December 9, 2008

Hi Mr. Bob (waves in general direction of LA)!

109. Boborci - December 9, 2008

107

Indeed

108

WAVES BACk

110. Harry Ballz - December 9, 2008

Thanks, Bob, that is much appreciated!

My being an avid film buff I meant it about the picky part!

111. Bill Peters - December 9, 2008

Mr.Orci does this movie leave room for a Sequal?

112. Bill Peters - December 9, 2008

Great Invterview Mr. Orci I like the fact you post here as well..

113. Mark C - December 9, 2008

87, 87, 87, wash your mouth out with soap. It’s canon, not cannon. Do you think everyone else has it wrong????

114. Red-Shirted Monkey - December 10, 2008

From the interview:

TrekMovie: And do you have any internal reasoning why the ship is being built in Riverside Iowa instead of San Francisco?

Roberto Orci: Yes.

And the follow-up question that wasn’t presented:

TrekMovie: But do you have any *good* internal reasoning why the ship is being built in Riverside Iowa instead of San Francisco?

Roberto Orci: Well, JJ wasn’t a fan and didn’t get it until I explained what we were really doing was “Top Gun in Space”. You know, “I feel the need, the need for warp speed.” After I showed him the fan art of the space ship on the ground he immediately visualized a scene with Maverick… er… Kirk staring wistfully from his motorcycle out over his destiny. In the script at that point I had Kirk in Iowa so I had to move the ship. No biggie. Canon shmanon. Besides, who cares? It’s a reboot. Uh… don’t write that.

115. Kirky - December 10, 2008

Lets hope in the new Superman movie, Superman actually gets to say more words. Hey Bob, does your brother in law feel the same way, if and when he gets to be in it?

116. Uhura (Mirror) - December 10, 2008

Great interview Bob and Anthony, sounds like you two have a good rapport, I hope you do another one of your events like you did at Grand Slam in April, that was great. I especially like Anthony’s imitiation of a canonista. I look foward to this ‘canon’ part 2, I hope there are some SPOILERS…I loves Spoilers and the above didn’t have much in that regard.

And Red-Shirted Monkey.
I am sure you think you are being clever, but your posts just come across as sad and rude and kind of pathetic.

117. Catie - December 10, 2008

His comments about Spock reassured me.
Great Interview!!
:-)

118. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2008

Great job Anthony and Bob!! Great Interview!!

Looking forward to part two…

119. Paulaner - December 10, 2008

If Paramount wants Countdown to be canon, it is canon.

120. thorsten - December 10, 2008

Great Job, thanks Anthony and Bob!
Can’t wait for part 2…

;))

121. Mark Lynch - December 10, 2008

Only 121 comments? I am shocked.

Seriously though, great interview. I may be having my recent downward spiraling pessimism beginning a reversal…

Still a long time to May 2009 though.

122. Mark Lynch - December 10, 2008

Hi Bob Orci,

Don’t know if you are still lurking in this thread but I wanted to ask a question. You are obviously an avid reader of Trek novels, and bless you for that. However, I was wondering if you are or ever were a Trek computer game player? If so, what was/is your favourite and on what platform?

Many thanks for taking the time to deal with all of us obsessed, strange people and indeed to keep on coming back for more!

123. oztrek - December 10, 2008

What a great interview – it is like eavesdropping on a conversation between trek aficionados.

Thanks Anthony & Bob

124. Iowagirl - December 10, 2008

#116, 114

– And Red-Shirted Monkey.
I am sure you think you are being clever, but your posts just come across as sad and rude and kind of pathetic. –

Yes yes, to have a point and to rub it in sometimes can be rude…:)

125. SB - December 10, 2008

#20:
“lets not forget that TZ/OL have some fairly strong Trek connections…(Shatner and Nimoy..plus i think i read that some Outer Limits aliens cameoed in Trek VI)”

The Trek/OL connection goes much deeper than that. To name just a few examples:

1. Bob Justman was the First Assistant Director on the original Outer Limits, and a very important part of the production team.

2. Wah Chang, who created most of the props and many of the alien designs for OL, later went on to create the final prototypes for the original tricorder and (I believe) phaser, as well as various and sundry other TOS props.

3. I don’t know about OL aliens turning up in ST IV, but several of its most notable aliens crossed over to Star Trek. One of the anthropoid alien hunters from OL’s “Fun and Games” turned up in “The Cage” as the apelike alien form that the Keeper assumes to ward off an attack by Captain Pike. Also seen in both “The Cage” and “The Squire of Gothos” was the birdlike Empyrian from OL’s “Second Chance.” Finally, the Horta, designed and worn by Janos Prohaska, began life as “the mikey” in OL’s “The Probe”.

These are just a few of many, many Trek/OL connections. A more complete list can be found here:

http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpress/articles/startrekmyths2.htm

126. P Technobabble - December 10, 2008

This site is still the most fun I have on the internet.
Good interview with Mr. Orci. The more I “hear” him talk, the more he feels like a guy I’ve known forever (where Star Trek is concerned, I mean)… I appreciate that he is a Star Trek fan, and because of that I feel good about this film.
Meanwhile, I see there are still a lot of hard-core critics, and some of them can be pretty rude and so forth. But I think it’s really disgraceful when people post comments that try to translate what JJ or Roberto or anyone else just said. STOP putting YOUR words into other people’s mouths. Everyone on the Supreme Court sounds rather thoughtful and intelligent to me, and I don’t think they need any help expressing themselves.
There, I said it….

127. Jerad Yanni - December 10, 2008

Re: COUNTDOWN — I re-watched NEMESIS not long ago and I remember a scene where all of Data’s “data” (programming, memories, experiences, etc.) were downloaded into B4, but the prototype android did not seem to be influenced by the new information. It was only later when Picard was talking to B4 at the end of the film when B4 began humming and speaking a few words of the song “Blue Skies” that Data had sung for Riker and Troi at their wedding. Perhaps the figure on the cover is B4 after all, but with more of Data’s programming having processed and surfaced.

128. thebiggfrogg - December 10, 2008

No money is hard to imagine in the ol’ 21st century, I agree. But go back a few hundred years and try to explain a laptop or an iPhone to some cobbler in Boston in 1776. Maybe there was a stray 17th century visionary who could have foreseen something like it–run by pulleys and gears. So who is to say what will be 200, 300, 400 years from now that seems inconceivable to us today.

129. GraniteTrek - December 10, 2008

I could see Brandon Routh in a Starfleet uniform, couldn’t you, Bob? :)

Not necessarily as any of the regular cast, but he has the presence to be a Starfleet officer, perhaps another captain or commander rank.

130. thorsten - December 10, 2008

Roberto Orci: We are still in the sound mix […] It is not just Central Park with cars driving by.

Bob, regarding this OTHER member of the Supreme Court, is there a chance we will hear the sound of New York City Cab printers, or see aliens that look like black smoke?

;))

131. earthclanbootstrap - December 10, 2008

Mr. Orci and Mr. Pascale,
Thank you for taking the time to do this. The second part sounds intriguing; if you do indeed dig deeper into some of the canon and ‘spirit of the law’ issues that some of us are concerned (and occasionally up in arms) about it should prove to be at the very least illuminating (I won’t vouch for satisfying just yet…). I appreciate you taking the time to put this together.
Regarding what you’ve already given us:
I feel that the more non-anthro, non-forehead aliens the better. It’s a big (fictional) galaxy and surely we never saw every member species of the Federation in TOS.
However, in my heart of hearts I will NEVER accept the Big E being built on the ground and in Iowa of all places. With all due respect… you just didn’t need to go there.

132. table10 - December 10, 2008

Im a little curious about the relationship between mr Orci and Anthony. Anthony gets all this crazy access and info from mr Orci quite frequently. But do they chat in other areas besides the site, ie: emails correspondance, phone calls?

The reason I ask, and this question is meant to be taken with good humor, is ive noticed, in the comments section, whenever mr Orci shows up to answer some comments, he always seems to skip right over anything Anthony directs at him, whether Anthony is teasing him or just saying “hi bob”.

In other words, are both of your interactions strictly professional, or have you guys developped a comfortable “at ease” relationship?

133. Xai - December 10, 2008

114. Red-Shirted Monkey – December 10, 2008
“From the interview:, etc.”

I agree with Iowagirl on this post, and I’ll add..

Poor form… the man visits the site and is always cordial. You don’t have to agree with him, just don’t be rude.

134. The Underpants Monster - December 10, 2008

#128 – Thank you – that’s the same sort of thing I’ve always said. Not to mention that there was a complete collapse and rebuild of society between now and then, technological leaps that change fundamental aspects of daily life, and the influence of alien cultures in the rebuilding of Earth’s. It’s a wonder the 24th century isn’t MORE different from the 21st than it’s portrayed to be.

135. Admiral_BlackCat - December 10, 2008

105. Xai
#104 Admiral

Bob Orci has been posting here for a long time. You can ask him directly, but I think it was his idea, not Paramount.

106. Boborci
105

Yup

WOW! First time commenting and Orci responds, great!!
Thanks for taking your personal time to connect with us Trekkies.
Much appreciated.

136. section9 - December 10, 2008

I’m disappointed that they dropped the San Francisco Navy Yards from construction. Seems stupid to me.

However, what’s really disappointing is the absence of Mugato.

C’mon Man? No Mugato, no Movie!

137. DATA KILLED SPOT! - December 10, 2008

Wow! Didnt realize how cute Orci was:)

Reguarding the interview, I thought, according to canon, that Uhura was born in the United States of Africa. It actually was a real concept last century. The official language was to be Swahili. I kinda like the idea of a “no borders” world. I mean, cultural boundaries would exist, but no political boundaries would.

138. Doug - December 10, 2008

Fair dues, Orci does a long interview like this and lurks a little. Most questions were answered well which is good to see. I felt a little obfuscation on some of the canon questions (secrecy or unease?). Maybe now is not the time and should be left until after the films release. Totally agree that canon is an evolving thing (in very small steps over time) but when there is too much bending over backward and crowbarring of explanations then canon may as well be irrelevant and entirely disregarded which would be a mistake (there are certainly concerns – all the continual talk is proof of that). The simple fact is the Enterprise is in the wrong place, just admit it, plead creative license and stop trying to suggest it’s canon. With everything J.J. has said I’d be much happier if they just said canon was not that important to them and let the film gain a bit of distance. P.S. Never enough said in praise of Nicholas Meyer.

139. Yammer - December 10, 2008

28: Ms. Glass Spider originated, I think, in Diane Duane’s The Wounded Sky.

140. Closettrekker - December 10, 2008

#124—-That is assuming there is a “point”.

Orci has promised us that everything which is seemingly contradictory will be canonically explained.

Without knowledge of what that canon explanation is at this point, I wouldn’t concede that he has a point at all.

#136—“I’m disappointed that they dropped the San Francisco Navy Yards from construction.”

Who says they have?

The name may refer to a company based in SF, and not to a geographical location at all.

141. Nelson - December 10, 2008

Great interview,looking forward to part 2!

If Mr. Orci is reading this, I have a question. I have seen the trailer of course, but I have not read the descriptions of the 4 scenes that JJ Abrams has been previewing. I’m avoiding spoilers.

From what I have seen though, I get the impression the new screenplay has in it’s way, condensed many big events from episodes of TOS into the film. Such as when Spock appears to be lashing out at Kirk. Would that be a nod to This Side of Paradise? Spock appearing on Vulcan with his mother, a nod to Journey to Babel? So in the course of the film, you get little snippets of TOS mixed in as part of the narrative. This is of course, pure speculation and there’s not much evidence to support it! Thanks and look forward to seeing the film.

142. Devon - December 10, 2008

I hope Anthony is okay with me posting this…

Bob, that is cool that Capt. Robau is named after your uncle. If I may, there is a thread as to why the character of Capt. Robau is “badass” over on TrekBBS, I think you will find highly amusing if you get a few minutes to read through.

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=76045

143. Closettrekker - December 10, 2008

#137—” I thought, according to canon, that Uhura was born in the United States of Africa.”

Not if you regard “canon” as live action material onscreen. I do, however, recall that being FASA’s take on her birthplace. It has become “fanon”, but not canon. Perhaps the upcoming film will establish this.

144. wes - December 10, 2008

Bob –

Any advice for a first-time screenplay writer?

145. Sc00ny - December 10, 2008

Not much to say that hasn’t been said except to give a big shout out to Bob Orci for taking time to do this interview.
Been hoping it was gonna happen.

Great juicy Q&A’s

Thanks Bob and Anthony,

Sc00ny
(half rolled over)

PS Orci- do Superman. You know you want to. Your bro in law is the man too.

146. AJ - December 10, 2008

143:

Closet:

I have never read anything from FASA, but I thought I once read in “Making of Star Trek” that Uhura was from there as excerpted from the Writers’ Guide for TOS. It’s an old memory from when I was 9 or something, and I’ve no access to the book now. But she’s from Africa for sure.

147. David P - December 10, 2008

Orci is great!
can’t wait until Transformers2

148. Jordan - December 10, 2008

I’m completely in favor of Countdown being canon. It’s purpose seems to be reconciling the movie with established canon anyways.

149. Captain Balki - December 10, 2008

any questions asked to orci about Shat?

150. boborci - December 10, 2008

144. wes – December 10, 2008

Bob –

Any advice for a first-time screenplay writer?

You will need a stack of good material, so START WRITING, first by writing what you know and love (2-3 scripts at least in this category), and then trying moving toward trying to write something commercial (2-3). Then you have enough material to show someone and you’ve hopefully tackled enough to have gotten proficient at it.

151. Andy D - December 10, 2008

Bob Orci,

you look a bit like Nicholas Brendon/ Xander from Buffy, if this movie bombs and you’re in shape there could be a stuntman career in the wings…

152. Saavik001 - December 10, 2008

Thanks Bob for posting here. I really look forward to the film and I like that things are a little different and take chances, like Deep Space Nine did. Expanding the horizons so to speak. The trailer looks INCREDIBLE :) And I was just going to ask about the screenwriting tips but it looks like you tackled that one already. THANKS!

153. Saavik001 - December 10, 2008

Bob,
Also, sorry for all the flack you get here. I assure you we aren’t all nitpicky, vindictive nerds in Mom’s basement. I liked Transformers as well and Star Trek looks to really hit all the marks we wanted. I sincerely hope it is very successful and you guys get to complete the trilogy and more. I just hope Kirk has to go back to the Academy at the end and doesn’t skip being a first officer etc to command the Enterprise. :)

154. earthclanbootstrap - December 10, 2008

“#136—”I’m disappointed that they dropped the San Francisco Navy Yards from construction.”

#140. Closettrekker
“Who says they have?

The name may refer to a company based in SF, and not to a geographical location at all.”

Closettrekker, sure you can posit that as an explanation. I would argue, however, that it is an unneccesarily stretched and inorganic explanation. It’s sorta retconning at it’s most awkward and contrived. Occam’s razor works beautifully for things like canon and fanon. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. The fact of the matter is that it has been accepted by the fans that care about such things (and quite a few production crews, for that matter) for decades that based on the inarguably canon dedication plaque on the bridge of the Enterprise stating that she was constructed at “San Francisco Shipyards” that the site of construction was “San Francisco”. That concept was admittedly further extended to incorporate the concept of a drydock facility in geosyncronous orbit over San Francisco, CA. That, however, doesn’t contradict anything previously stated and is a fairly logical extension of what we already knew. It’s a charming and well beloved piece of Trek apocrypha. Why go out of one’s way to blatantly contradict it and alienate one of the most passionate segments of the fan base, when you could just as easily let it rest well enough alone? It’s one of the knick-knacks in the cluttered office that is Star Trek that I love and it’s off-putting at best to see it chucked out with the trash.

155. YARN - December 10, 2008

#153

You don’t get it.

The “nitpicky” people are just acting like “Bad Riker” in A Matter of Honor.

They have to play the foil so that J.J. diss them and reach out to new fans.

If some Trek fans didn’t exhibit behaviors that allow a clear demarcation of geek and non-geek, then casual fans would fear any level or mode of association. By way of the performance of “nitpicking and griping”, people are invited to dissociate Trek geekery from Trek fandom in general. The new and casual Trek fan is invited to construct a “safe” Trek identity that stands in contra-distinction to the hard core geeks. They are your “sin eaters”. Everyone has a part to play. I proudly stand close (but not too close) to the hard core geek.

156. Saavik001 - December 10, 2008

155. YARN – December 10, 2008

Good one :) I understand the concerns with canon, it’s just the personal attacks on the writers and director that are getting silly. The film should appeal to a broad audience and nitpicks like Pike being the same age as Kirk as mentioned in the Menagerie when clearly Pike wasn’t a Captain at 21 is goofy. He should be in his late 40s early 50s. I’ve been a little put off by some of JJ’s comments, but Bob explained as a way to bring the mainstream into the fold, not make the film too insider or exclusive. I’m a hard core geek too, I would rather the film succeed than fail and minor violations like Riverside ship yards vs San Franciso shipwards I can deal with. Maybe this will be as good as Nick Meyer did with TWOK. Gotta be better than TMP. Even though I like all the TOS films. Even TFF. :)

157. earthclanbootstrap - December 10, 2008

#155. YARN

You are wise indeed not to stand TOO close; some of us (but certainly not I) tend to smell strongly of Doritos, beef jerky and Mountain Dew…

158. The Angry Klingon - December 10, 2008

Meh….you failed to ask teh hard hitting questions…whats with all teh bar code scanners all over the bridge???
Im only half kidding.
Laziness in in the Art Department with this kind of budget doesnt bode well. Sure classic Trek had some real world items on display but that was due to budget…theres no excuse for it in a big budget movie.
To me it says
A. People are too stupid to notice
B. We were too lazy to care enough not to make the bridge look like an Apple Store complete with Bar Code scanners everywhere to facilitate a quick checkout.

159. Harry Ballz - December 10, 2008

As in, “hey, checkout all the Bar Code scanners?”

160. Closettrekker - December 10, 2008

#146—“I have never read anything from FASA, but I thought I once read in “Making of Star Trek” that Uhura was from there as excerpted from the Writers’ Guide for TOS. It’s an old memory from when I was 9 or something, and I’ve no access to the book now. But she’s from Africa for sure.”

I have always imagined that Uhura was from Africa. There is certainly sufficient evidence to support that. I would go so far as to say that it is one of the more firmly supported examples of “fanon”. I am just pointing out that, unlike the birthplaces of other characters, it is never actually said on screen (my idea of concrete canon).

She is obviously fluent in Swahili (“Is There in Truth No Beauty?”, “The Man Trap”, “The Changeling”, “Spectre of the Gun”). However, as I said before, she is a communications officer and someone who is obviously interested in African history and culture (“Elayan Of Troyius”, “The Tholian Web”), so being fluent in Swahili does not equate to that being necessarily her native language.

When TNG debuted in 1987, all bets were off. Reference materials (whether endorsed by Paramount or not) could no longer be considered canon. The general rule became—only live action onscreen Trek would qualify as ‘canon’. It was not until the Paramount release of TAS on dvd that the ‘general rule’ would really be questioned. In the end, I think it is up to each individual fan to decide what criteria material should meet before it is canonized.

Personally, I like the “live action rule”. It simplifies things. If and when it is put onscreen, I will acknowledge it as canon. Until then, that information remains to me, in the category of “fanon”. The only exception I make for that is (TAS) “Yesteryear”. I think that multiple elements of that story have too many times been referenced in subsequent live action Trek to ignore it. I think that earns it exceptional status.

The point is that, while it would shock me to see any writer suggest in any production that Uhura is from anywhere but Africa, it has never actually been officially ‘canonized’ onscreen, nor has any fictional entity known as “The United States Of Africa”.

161. YARN - December 10, 2008

#160

The brightline really isn’t “live action” – it’s that the cartoon was a children’s show. Children’s shows are implicitly understood to simplify source material and to diverge from it in ways that better fit the mission of children’s entertainment (Kirk supplying weapons to natives to maintain the balance of power, for example, is a bit too morally complicated to fit in a kid’s show).

162. Closettrekker - December 10, 2008

#154—“…accepted by the fans that care about such things (and quite a few production crews, for that matter) for decades…”

Stop right there. I just want to point out that what you are describing is the very definition of “fanon”, not canon. “Fanon” has been contradicted in every spinoff series and several films. This one will undoubtedly be no different. Promising to “honor canon” is not the same thing as promising to leave the hundreds of notions of “fanon” unchallenged, or even legitimized.

“… that based on the inarguably canon dedication plaque on the bridge of the Enterprise stating that she was constructed at San Francisco Shipyards”

Now, is that what it says—-that it was “constructed at San Francisco Shipyards”, or does it simply say “San Francisco Shipyards”?

There is nothing, to my recollection (correct me if I’m wrong), in canon that would affirm that the Enterprise (even in the ‘original’ timeline) was actually constructed in any specific geographical location. That is “fanon” (not unlike the notion that Chekov could not have been aboard the Enterprise during the events depicted in “Space Seed”).

‘San Francisco Shipyards’ could very well be a company that operates a series of facilities across the globe (or even on other planets, for that matter). That is ‘not’ a contradiction of canon, even without the element of a potentially altered timeline.

That’s the way I see it.

“Fanon” does not equal “canon”.

“Closettrekker, sure you can posit that as an explanation. I would argue, however, that it is an unneccesarily stretched and inorganic explanation. ”

I think I will reserve judgement on that until it is viewed within the context of the whole story. “Unnecessarily stretched” is a descriptive phrase that is certainly relative, IMO.

I must admit, though, that it (where the Enterprise was constructed) was never an important facet of “fanon” to me. It wasn’t something, as a lifelong fan, that I gave even a second thought to prior to reading some of the concerns of others here on these threads.

I suppose every fan has their own priorities. It just doesn’t conflict with mine.

163. Closettrekker - December 10, 2008

#161—“The brightline really isn’t “live action” – it’s that the cartoon was a children’s show. Children’s shows are implicitly understood to simplify source material and to diverge from it in ways that better fit the mission of children’s entertainment…”

That’s certainly an explanation. But to me, the explanation is unnecessary. The general rule confined it to “live action Star Trek”, produced by Paramount. That’s enough for me. I’d hate to have to try and fit some of those stories into established canon anyway.

The “live action rule” is the criteria I prefer (again, with only the aforementioned exception of “Yesteryear”).

164. Shatner_Fan_Prime - December 10, 2008

“‘San Francisco Shipyards’ could very well be a company that operates a series of facilities across the globe (or even on other planets, for that matter).”

I wonder what Shatner would say in response to all these posts of Closet’s? Can anyone guess? ;-)

165. YARN - December 10, 2008

#163

Your criterion, by itself, is arbitrary. It’s like saying that Trek is canoncial when the Sulu has more lines than Scotty. If you are talking to yourself, that’s fine (i.e., mere assertion/articulation). In a dialogue, however, justification is required for discussion to move forward. Explanation is necessary.

Explanation is what establishes that the exclusion of TAS is not arbitrary.

Using “Children’s show” as the criterion suggest a canonical sorting mechanism that provides an implicit explanation as well (which, I suggest, is the actual reason people exclude TAS in the first place).

I’d rather light a candle than curse the darkness of brute criterial assertion, but if you insist on the latter path, you are welcome to it.

166. Closettrekker - December 10, 2008

#165—-“Your criterion, by itself, is arbitrary.”

It wasn’t my criterion. It was Paramount’s standard (until the release of TAS on dvd a few years ago caused them to officially alter their stance), so it was hardly abitrary.

I never had any trouble accepting the “live action rule”, simply because I found much of the material was so inferior anyway. That also makes it easier for me to continue judging the material’s level of canonical legitimacy by that standard. Paramount did not change its stance because they somehow found TAS to be suddenly possessive of more substantive value. They simply saw an opportunity to sell more dvd’s!

“In a dialogue, however, justification is required for discussion to move forward. Explanation is necessary. ”

I didn’t feel as if I dismissed the value of the explanation you gave. I think you misunderstand. In fact, there is, IMO, a direct link from your explanation to mine.

The quality of the material is—without a doubt—directly related to the fact that TAS was made for an audience of children (of which I was one at the time, btw).

It’s one thing to debate, but to debate when there is no argument seems pointless to me.

#164—-” wonder what Shatner would say in response to all these posts of Closet’s? Can anyone guess? ;-)”

Let’s expose Closet’s “Raw Nerve”?

:)

We all know he’d tell me to “get a life”… :(

Canadians.

167. Xai - December 10, 2008

Yarn,
Will the “SF shipyards of Riverside, Iowa” keep you from seeing the movie?

168. earthclanbootstrap - December 10, 2008

#162. Closettrekker
“Now, is that what it says—-that it was “constructed at San Francisco Shipyards”, or does it simply say “San Francisco Shipyards”?”

In the interests of clarity I refreshed my memory via the miracle of the interwebs. In point of fact the precise wording of the original plaque reads:

USS Enterprise
Starship Class
San Francisco, Calif.

Now, those inclined to do so could probably go on all night arguing about what exactly that firmly establishes and what could only be reasonably inferred from it. They could also probably argue all night about how many Siskos can dance on the head of a pin. I stand firmly in the school of thought that maintains that it clearly implies construction and commissioning in the environs of San Francisco, which may or may not include geosynchronous orbit. Iowa, much like the number five as regards the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, is right out. And it is absolutely, as you said, a matter of priorities and opinion. It seems as if, and I hope this is a fair characterization, that you could care less about stuff like that. That’s cool; that’s how you roll. But there are plenty of Trek fans who do care about stuff like that; it’s part of the mystique and the fun. I guess my ultimate point is that consciously contradicting those sort of assumptions seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water even if you are creating a new timeline unless your whole point is to alienate those fans, at least to some degree. And THAT doesn’t make any sense to me at all.

169. Anthony Pascale - December 10, 2008

the above debate is why I implored Bob to not leave up to us (although a majority are voting for Countdown to be canon). However ‘fanon’ is not canon, and I for one appreciate the rules. Personally, I believe that moving forward Paramount and CBS should move towards the Star Wars model with the EU materials being canon. At the very least things that are being created by the new ‘supreme court’ should be canon, maybe with the option to change their minds later if they want to contradict the comic book in the next movie.

I think that if the new movie (and the new video game) are going to be bringing new people into the Trek fandom, then they should be able to extend their experiences with consistent EU materials.

Just because the non live action stuff has not been canon in the past, does not mean it always has to be that way (and there are already exceptions anyway).

170. Redshirt96 - December 10, 2008

168 earthclanbootstrap

“…even if you are creating a new timeline unless your whole point is to alienate those fans…”

We’re certainly all entitled to our opinions, but I have a question.

Isn’t the whole point to have a good story and an enjoyable movie?

Consider this wild example: What if the movie premiers to universal acclaim from the critics, and the fans make it a billion dollar grosser? What if it wins a few Oscars? What if the quality and success of the movie cause Paramount to get right into pre-production of a sequel, start up a new series, and creates a boon in new books, comics and other media? Will you still feel alienated that Trek is thriving?

Isn’t the whole point to have a good story and an enjoyable movie?

171. Dom - December 10, 2008

The dedication plaque of the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 says:

USS Enterprise
Starship Class
San Francisco, Calif.
United Federation of Planets
“To boldly go where no man has gone before.”
— from the Starfleet Charter

Starfleet HQ is in San Francisco. Where does it say the Enterprise was ***constructed*** in San Francisco? I could simply have been commissioned in SF!

The Enterprise-A was definitely built in San Fran, not the original!

172. earthclanbootstrap - December 10, 2008

#172. Dom

In point of fact

NCC-1701-A

reads

USS Enterprise
Starship Class
San Francisco, Calif.
United Federation of Planets
“To boldly go where no man has gone before.”
– from the Starfleet Charter

while

NCC-1701

reads

USS Enterprise
Starship Class
San Francisco, Calif.

There is a fine yet important distinction.

173. YARN - December 10, 2008

#167

Xai,

Overwhelmingly bad reviews would keep me from seeing it.

If it is good and really feels like Trek, they can build the ship on Rock Candy Mountain.

174. earthclanbootstrap - December 10, 2008

#170. Redshirt96

” Will you still feel alienated that Trek is thriving?”

I wouldn’t ever feel alienated because of Star Trek’s success, but it’s entirely possible that I could feel alienated despite it’s success. You preface your question with four ‘What If’ propositions that all automatically presupposes not only epic artistic success for the movie, but wild critical and audience success as well. It could equally as likely be a moderate to flat dud. I’m not necessarily saying that either will happen. The proof will be in the pudding. I’m just approaching the movie from a bit of a skeptical slant. Not everyone has to sing Hosannahs, some of us just channel Samuel T. Cogley.
;-)

175. RA - December 10, 2008

Sold less on this film more and more each reveal.

176. Xai - December 10, 2008

#175 RA

And what grand thing revealed here put you off this time?

There were only very minor spoliers.

177. Xai - December 10, 2008

The new plaque.

USS Enterprise
Starship Class
Built in the Riverside, Iowa Shipyards

In this universe

178. earthclanbootstrap - December 10, 2008

#177. Xai

“USS Enterprise
Starship Class
Built in the Riverside, Iowa Shipyards

In this universe”

Bob, will the Supreme Court give it’s blessing on this as Canon?

I especially like the ‘In this universe’ bit; has a bit of a Douglas Adams flavor…

:)

179. Green-Blooded-Bastard - December 10, 2008

Bob,

If by some chance you should happen to wind up writing or co-writing the next Superman picture, could you please do us all an enormous favor and leave Lex Luthor out of the film? He’s been in every damn Superman picture and quite frankly, I’m sick of him. There are dozens of characters that could be thrown into the mix, especially with modern special effects where they are. Doomsday, Bizzaro, Braniac…

Good luck to you sir.

180. YARN - December 10, 2008

I’m more concerned about Kirk being written like character from an early Tom Cruise movie (a rebel, with vague father issues, who has impressive talent, but who is in a precarious stage of personal development) and Spock’s more violent youth.

181. The Underpants Monster - December 10, 2008

#180 – That’s my biggest concern, too. The more I hear of the story, the less he sounds like Jim Kirk and the more he sounds like Anakin Skywalker.

182. Tango - December 10, 2008

I’m hoping Pike at some point mentions his horses. He probably won’t bring them along though.

183. AJ - December 10, 2008

SF has always been an important locale for Trek. The plaque on the ship led to SFA being located at the Presidio, and countless films and post-TOS shows have shown it.

San Fran is a liberal and diverse city, and Star Trek is meant to reflect man’s ability to accept or tolerate diversity without feeling the need to fight it. In the 1960’s it was the absolute epicenter of the counterculture. At that time, it was a statement, albeit a small one, to imply that a mighty exploratory Starship could be built there.

Perhaps, in 2008, Mr. Abrams’ vision is that such a progressive view of the world finally makes it to Iowa. Perhaps it’s just that the great plains may be a better place to build a massive ship than hilly Northern California.

184. Alex Rosenzweig - December 10, 2008

#168 – “In the interests of clarity I refreshed my memory via the miracle of the interwebs. In point of fact the precise wording of the original plaque reads:

USS Enterprise
Starship Class
San Francisco, Calif.

Now, those inclined to do so could probably go on all night arguing about what exactly that firmly establishes and what could only be reasonably inferred from it. They could also probably argue all night about how many Siskos can dance on the head of a pin. I stand firmly in the school of thought that maintains that it clearly implies construction and commissioning in the environs of San Francisco, which may or may not include geosynchronous orbit. Iowa, much like the number five as regards the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, is right out.”

To be pedantic about it, though, one could equally easily infer from the plaque that the ship was commissioned under the authority of StarFleet Command, as based in San Francisco.

Personally, I’ve always preferred the idea that she was built in San Francisco, and her components assembled in space at a facility still called the San Francisco Yards. But if presented with an argument that she was assembled in Iowa, and possibly moved to a spacedock in the San Francisco Yards for final shipfitting and engine testing, I could live with that, and it certainly doesn’t contradict anything on film.

Having the ship brand new in the 2260s, well, that’s a whole other story… ;)

185. Alex Rosenzweig - December 10, 2008

#177 – “In this universe”

See, as much as I get where you’re coming from, if we’re entering an era where any inconsistency can now simply be dismissed with a hand wave and declaration, “Well, so what, it’s a different universe”, that’s a big failure point for me.

To be fair, that’s simply my bias. The movie could be a wonderful bit of cinema, and a lot of fun to watch, but if that’s the mentality that results from it, it will–for me–have failed on some level.

186. Databrain - December 11, 2008

The iowa construction of enterprise is just a pathetic, purposeful breach in canon, how can you explain that away? I am surprised Leanard Nimoy supports such intentful breaches. He was one of the main proponents of Roddenberrys consistent vision. But alas, the writers swear there will be canon resolution. We shall see.

I know the aspects of this interview about the new alien serving aboard the enterprise were simulated by past discussions I and other’s have put forth, but the main qualm I personally had with it was that it was serving aboard a starship as a senior officer. Not that it is not specifically an anthropomorphic alien.
There have been non-humanoids in star trek since its inception.

The main argument was that there only seemed to be humanoid aliens serving aboard starships during this specific time-line. The most exotic non-humanoid species we saw were always either first-contact situations or those in which starfleet was forced into contact with a race it had heard of but not seen previously. This last point is somewhat mild compared to the massive rift left with the ship construction being in Iowa.

My guess is that this was yet another arbitrary move made by JJ Abrams that had a ‘starwars feel’ to it and that he probably actively pushed for it while shrugging his shoulders at canon and then deciding that it would ultimately be explained away in some sort of alternate time-line variable, or perhaps not even at all. Either way, if there is no canon resolution to these problems, they will lose a lot of true trek fans. guaranteed. And this film will thus do poorly and be almost immediately forgotten when the next summer action blockbuster storms forth. That is, after all, what they are marketing this as.

187. krikzil - December 11, 2008

I’m glad someone looked up the plaque. I was like, didn’t the plaque say SF? But I was too lazy to go look it up. ;) The other thing — how can Pine’s Kirk be watching it being built? A youunger version, maybe, but not at the age he is in the trailer.

188. Okie Trekker - December 11, 2008

I realize I’m new to this message board and thus am asking a question that could result in my being branded as an “inferior life form,” but I have to ask: What is this “Supreme Court” everybody keeps mentioning? Someone at Paramount? A certain group of fans? Some combination of the two? Sorry if this is a stupid question but I honestly had never heard this phrase used in conjunction with Star Trek and canon until now.

189. Closettrekker - December 11, 2008

#186—-“The iowa construction of enterprise is just a pathetic, purposeful breach in canon, how can you explain that away?”

Simply put, it is never canonically established that the Enterprise is “constructed” in any specific geographical location.

As pointed out above, the plaque says:

USS Enterprise
Starship Class
San Francisco, Calif.

“Fanon” holds this to imply that it was constructed there.

It could just as easily (and more likely, if naval tradition is its precedent) imply that San Francisco is where the ship was “commissioned”.

Commissioning and construction are two distinct stages.

It doesn’t need to be “explained away”. There is no contradiction.

Fanon does not equal canon. Period.

190. Shatner_Fan_Prime - December 11, 2008

Closet, I agree that the Big E could have been constructed anywhere. Canon fanon shmanon, whatever.

But having it be made in the same small town Kirk is from is a bit … convenient. (And apparently Uhura hangs out in this town too. Ok.)

It’s all sort of like, you know, Darth Vader being the one who built C3PO when he was a child. ;-)

191. Closettrekker - December 11, 2008

#187—“The other thing — how can Pine’s Kirk be watching it being built? A (younger) version, maybe, but not at the age he is in the trailer.”

I don’t necessarily like the creative choice (or this particular canon ruling), but it seems clear to me that the “Supreme Court” saw an already glaring contradiction in canon.

In “The Menagerie”, the Enterprise is established to already be 13 years old at a minimum.

In Leonard Nimoy’s TSFS (15 years after the 1st season episode “Space Seed”), her age is retconned to be 20 years.

You can hardly blame anyone but Bennett and Nimoy for that contradiction. As I understand it, they have both claimed that the “retconning” was quite intentional. That canon contradiction is about 25 years old, and has nothing to do with Orci, Kurtzman, Lindelof, Burk, or Abrams.

The “Supreme Court” has apparently chosen to honor that retcon. They claimed all along that certain inherent contradictions might require a “ruling”.

This seems to be one of them. They obviously went with the more recent entry by Nimoy and Bennett. Although (as a TOS fan first and foremost) I would have preferred the TSFS retcon to be ignored in favor of “The Menagerie”, it was still a very canonically legitimate choice (and quite an understandable one, given Nimoy’s involvement in the film).

The truth is, this is no different from some of the other irreconcilable contradictions between TOS and the Movie Era.

The dialogue in “Space Seed” suggests that the five year mission takes place 200 years after 1996 (the late 22nd Century), for example—- while TVH suggests that some 15 years or so after the five year mission, the story has progressed to the “late 23rd Century”.

The “late 23rd Century” is what would become canon, superceding what was suggested by “Space Seed”.

So what makes the TSFS retcon of what was suggested in “The Menagerie” being honored by STXI any different?

As a self-professed “canonista”, even I have to concede that the judgement is legitimate. It is what it is.

192. S. John Ross - December 11, 2008

#190: “It’s all sort of like, you know, Darth Vader being the one who built C3PO when he was a child. ;-)”

Exactly so … and for that matter like Luke & Leia being retconned as siblings, or any of the other “no-really-I-planned-this-all-along” moshery in Star Wars.

And I do wonder … I do seriously wonder … if this isn’t the real thing that Abrams is deliberately nicking from Star Wars (moreso than “more flashy space action”) a kind of overt mythologizing.

That’s one of my concerns … that – beyond any specific issues of story, character, and plot – that the new film will be taking a very different view of Star Trek, where instead of being people they’re Campbellian myth-figures, Chosen Ones instead of human beings.

If it turns out Kirk has an extra-high midichlorian count and is spoken of in a prophecy, I’ll be very worried indeed. :)

193. Closettrekker - December 11, 2008

#190—“But having it be made in the same small town Kirk is from is a bit … convenient. (And apparently Uhura hangs out in this town too. Ok.)

It’s all sort of like, you know, Darth Vader being the one who built C3PO when he was a child. ;-)”

I cannot argue with that. It certainly seems that way on the surface.

Perhaps the overall context will better explain this—at least the part about Uhura. Maybe by this point, Uhura is already assigned to the Enterprise. It isn’t that much of a stretch to accept that she is in the same area as the ship she is to serve on, is it?

Now, the Enterprise being built in Kirk’s hometown (or even nearby) is a bit much, I think. If that is as bad as it gets, though, it’s not so bad at all.

It’s certainly not as bad as 2 captains and 5 commanders (or 3 captains and 4 commanders, depending upon how you interpret Scotty’s rank by that point) all serving aboard the same starship (STV:TGTTO89)!!!

:)

194. Shatner_Fan_Prime - December 11, 2008

#193 … “I cannot argue with that.”

Well at least I lived long enough to hear that.

:-)

195. Closettrekker - December 11, 2008

#192—“That’s one of my concerns … that – beyond any specific issues of story, character, and plot – that the new film will be taking a very different view of Star Trek, where instead of being people they’re Campbellian myth-figures…”

A legitimate concern. I never saw them as “mythological heroes”. I saw them as people (not all that unlike us) who lived in an optimistic future and became extraordinary heroes.

But, apparently, Nick Meyer saw James T. Kirk as just that (a mythological hero). His commentary on TWOK (from Memory Alpha) says as much.

Give it a read.

196. Databrain - December 11, 2008

190:
‘It’s all sort of like, you know, Darth Vader being the one who built C3PO when he was a child. ;-)’

It is nothing at all like that. There is no previously existing canon that directly states who or where C3PO is constructed. In this case you have a blatant bashing of canon by someone who has repeatedly claimed not to be a star trek fan and to thus not have the deeply rooted connection to its history so many have. This is not a good thing at all.

197. Databrain - December 11, 2008

‘According to The Making of Star Trek by Gene Roddenberry and Stephen E. Whitfield, the components of the Enterprise were built at the San Francisco Navy Yards and the vessel itself was constructed in space. The film’s co-writer, Roberto Orci, acknowledged depicting the Enterprise being built on Earth would cause debates among fans regarding canon.’

198. Databrain - December 11, 2008

^^^ in other words, they either blatantly violated established canon, or there is some sort of explanation for this mishap. If the former be the case then a lot of trekkies will be turned off and a major percentage of the supporters of this franchise will leave.

199. Closettrekker - December 11, 2008

#196—“There is no previously existing canon that directly states (by whom) or where C3PO is constructed.”

Nor is ther any previously existing canon which directly states that the Enterprise was built in a specific gepgraphical location.

So…what’s your point?

“In this case you have a blatant bashing of canon by someone who has repeatedly claimed not to be a star trek fan…”

Since when have Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman claimed “not to be Star Trek fans”?

JJ Abrams did not write the script. He directed the movie.

And again, what is being “bashed” is a fanon notion, not previously established canon.

USS Enterprise
Starship Class
San Francisco, Calif.

You drew a conclusion based upon nothing canonical but that.

Where does that say she was built in San Francisco?

“Fanon”….not “canon”.

All that says to me is that she was commissioned in San Francisco (which makes perfect sense, given that Starfleet is headquartered there).

Onscreen productions should not be made to fit around notions of “fanon”.

“Fanon” should be tailored to fit around what is established in onscreen productions.

200. Closettrekker - December 11, 2008

#197—“‘According to The Making of Star Trek …”

‘The Making Of Star Trek’ is not canon, and never has been.

201. Databrain - December 11, 2008

According to The Making of Star Trek by GENE RODDEBERRY!

PERIOD.

202. Closettrekker - December 11, 2008

#201—-So, the problem is not really about canon, but rather a contradiction to something Roddenberry said?

He also said at one time that he did not consider the 3rd season of TOS to be canon.

In another instance, he said that TMP was the only “canon” Star Trek movie!

Reference books, even when they involve information from the mouth of Gene Roddenberry, are not canon.

203. USS_Stargazer - December 11, 2008

“TrekMovie: Do you know if your brother-in-law is going to be in it? [Editor’s note: Brandon Routh is married to Bob’s sister]

Roberto Orci: I would imagine so. How are you going to find a better Superman?”

Well said, Roberto! I agree, Brandon was excellent as Superman. He has to reprise the role again in the next Superman film. He earned it.

Also, I can’t wait to watch this movie (Star Trek). Hope it’s good!

204. krikzil - December 11, 2008

“As a self-professed “canonista”, even I have to concede that the judgement is legitimate. It is what it is.”

I guess I just see more weight to the Enterprise being a lot older than the one throw away line in the movie — especially given the reasoning behind it (ST’s 20th anniversary coming up — dumb, yes!). And again, I just see this as yet another choice made for the movie to shoehorn in stuff that I find problematic to begin with — everyone meeting up at the same time, in Iowa no less as discussed above. ;)

But then, I never had any burning desire for a Origins story. I figured they met up as they were all assigned to the Enterprise’s 5 year mission. (Other than perhaps Kirk knowing Bones and Gary previously.) Oh well, it’s always fun to speculate on these matters….

205. ponnfarr9696 - December 11, 2008

I cant wait to see a link (or a tickle reference) between Nemesis and XI.
I had some suspicions…..Thanx Bob…I love the secrecy….I just hope that we dont see Founders or wierd Gem haddar plot references…lol

206. barrydancer - December 11, 2008

199: Closettrekker

“And again, what is being “bashed” is a fanon notion, not previously established canon.

USS Enterprise
Starship Class
San Francisco, Calif.

You drew a conclusion based upon nothing canonical but that.

Where does that say she was built in San Francisco?

“Fanon”….not “canon”.

Though I like the idea of her being built in SanFran, preferably in space, your logic is sound. As other have said, ships are often built in one place and commissioned in another.

I think a lot of fans are applying the logic of later dedication plaques to the the 1701. We know the Enterprise-D was built at Utopia Planitia, and her dedication plaque says Utopia Planitia, implying that the location on the plaques is also where the ship was constructed. But you’re right, there’s nothing that says it has to be that way.

204: krikzil

“But then, I never had any burning desire for a Origins story. I figured they met up as they were all assigned to the Enterprise’s 5 year mission. (Other than perhaps Kirk knowing Bones and Gary previously.) Oh well, it’s always fun to speculate on these matters….”

Me too. What if the “origin” of how hte crew came together was so simple as someone behind a desk at Command assigning them all to Enterprise? Doesn’t really make for an exciting story, though. :)

207. Closettrekker - December 11, 2008

#204—“I guess I just see more weight to the Enterprise being a lot older than the one throw away line in the movie — especially given the reasoning behind it (ST’s 20th anniversary coming up — dumb, yes!).”

I think it was a dumb reason too. As much as I like Harve Bennett and love Leonard Nimoy, I really wish they hadn’t done that. Whether you and I would prefer to see it as a “throwaway line” or not, however, they (Bennett and Nimoy) made quite clear that it was not intended as such.

The bottom line is, that was a retcon that happened a quarter century ago, and not something that could ever be laid at the feet of this creative team. They might have ignored it, but with Nimoy’s involvement in the project and the precedent set by the movie-era in general, that was never likely to happen. Just as with the retconned timeframe of “the late 23rd Century”, the movies have done this sort of thing before. TSFS obviously did it with the age of the Enterprise.

” …I never had any burning desire for a Origins story.”

Nor did I. I have wanted a return to this era and these characters, though, for quite a long time. If an origin story points the “future” of Star Trek in that direction, I’m happy about it—-so long as it turns out well.

208. Okie Trekker - December 11, 2008

I always figured that line in ST3 was a reference to the beginning of the refit between TOS and TMP. We know there had to be some time that passed between the first and second movies; according to the books there was a second 5-year mission (that would have been the case with the Phase II series that eventually became TMP). But that was just an assumption on my part.

209. Closettrekker - December 11, 2008

#208—“But that was just an assumption on my part.”

But not the intention of the creative people involved in its production. That much is on record.

Moreover, it couldn’t very well have been 20 years since her refit, given that the film was set 15 years after “Space Seed”. That would place TMP before the five year mission. I would say that would be even worse.

210. Xai, (I'm from Iowa, I only wished I worked in outer space.) - December 11, 2008

185. Alex Rosenzweig – December 10, 2008
#177 – “In this universe”

“See, as much as I get where you’re coming from, if we’re entering an era where any inconsistency can now simply be dismissed with a hand wave and declaration, “Well, so what, it’s a different universe”, that’s a big failure point for me.

To be fair, that’s simply my bias. The movie could be a wonderful bit of cinema, and a lot of fun to watch, but if that’s the mentality that results from it, it will–for me–have failed on some level.”

I appreciate the thought given to your post, Alex.
I have to admit, I posted that on a whim and never would expect a “universe” mentioned on a dedication plague. Regardless of canon, I am getting a jolly over seeing Iowa, my home state, play a “larger” part in Trek lore.

I do subscribe to the “closettrekker theory of Trek chronological order”. I think all of ENT, TOS, TNG.. etc., lead up to the point where in a post-NEM timeframe, Nero goes back in time to do mischief and Spock (the Elder) follows. Nero makes an impact in the Trek universe A, resulting in a slightly alternate universe B that runs parallel to A, not replacing or destroying it.
Chrono-treknobabble.

I’m from Iowa, I only wished I worked in outer space.

211. Ciaran Bradley - December 11, 2008

I am looking forward to see the new Star Trek movie in cinemas next year i hope it will be far more better than all of the other Star Trek films the new enterprise looks brillant it is far more better than the other ships i hope it will have alot of action in the film and i hpe there will be lots of space battles could you keep me up to date with filming on Star Trek please i hope filming will be finshed on time

212. krikzil - December 11, 2008

“Me too. What if the “origin” of how hte crew came together was so simple as someone behind a desk at Command assigning them all to Enterprise? Doesn’t really make for an exciting story, though. :)”

barrydancer –LOL — nope not very exciting! What I did always want to see was the first months of the 5-year mission as everyone got to know each other and work together as a team. And like Closettrekker, certainly not adverse to more stories filling in the rest of the 5-year mission. I hope this movie is better than it currently sounds to me. I just think it’s terrible fanboyish in that bad way to use time travel AGAIN and have them all meeting up as such before the 5-year mission began.

“Moreover, it couldn’t very well have been 20 years since her refit, given that the film was set 15 years after “Space Seed”. That would place TMP before the five year mission. I would say that would be even worse.”

Closet–I know this wasn’t to me but I had to comment. (You’re shocked I know!) I’ve always thought it was amazing how much they messes up the timeline in the movies. All those very bright and talented folks can’t count. With TMP, I think they were just trying to pretend 10 years hadn’t passed between the show and the movie….or it just took too long to actually get it form script to screen. Whatever. But it was just so obvious in how old the cast looked. Then Meyers tried to fix things in TWOK brining folks up to their correct ages but we get the mess up with Khan and the centuries. Then ST3 REALLY messes it up with that line about the ship’s age which of course didn’t work for either the entire age of the ship or even since the refit (given the 15 years comment about Khan).

“The bottom line is, that was a retcon that happened a quarter century ago, and not something that could ever be laid at the feet of this creative team”

Hmm, not necessarily laying it as “blame” per se but it is a choice and as such I can disagree with it. Given that so much is going back to TV TOS, it seems weird to then make a choice based on Movie TOS. At least to me.

213. krikzil - December 11, 2008

typonians ran amok in that last post. sorry.

214. Closettrekker - December 11, 2008

#212—“Hmm, not necessarily laying it as “blame” per se but it is a choice and as such I can disagree with it. Given that so much is going back to TV TOS, it seems weird to then make a choice based on Movie TOS. At least to me.”

Oh, I agree. I would have went the other way for sure. I would have preferred to see them ignore the TSFS retcon (which I have always hated). But it seems they didn’t, and as much as I don’t like it, I can see the potential reasoning behind it.

(1)TSFS is the later entry.

(2)Nimoy directed TSFS, and is involved in STXI.

(3)There is definitive precedent in acknowledging the Movie-era’s contrary assertions (particularly with regard to time) as canon, and ignoring what was suggested in a TOS episode.

215. krikzil - December 11, 2008

“There is definitive precedent in acknowledging the Movie-era’s contrary assertions (particularly with regard to time) as canon, and ignoring what was suggested in a TOS episode.”

Which OT makes me think of other choices I wish we could ignore from the films:

1. Spock’s brother
2. TMP and TFF pitiful storylines in general
3. Kirk’s stupid death in Gen

I’m sure there are more you’d like to add but those are my biggest bugaboos.

216. krikzil - December 11, 2008

oops I meant #5’s storyline — the whole god thing.

217. Shatner_Fan_Prime - December 11, 2008

#’s 214 and 215 …

Sybok a bugaboo? I think STXI, the whole film, should’ve been a prequel explaining his life and origin! C’mon, who’s with me? It would’ve made a great movie! As Sybok himself would say, “You KNOW I am right!”

;-)

218. Closettrekker - December 11, 2008

#215—-I would like to add the Klingons appearing in a cloaked ship which is “painted like a giant bird of prey”.

Big bugaboo to me. Klingons are Klingons. Romulans are Romulans. That and the Morrow dialogue gets a sneer from me every time I see TSFS.

But you hit the nail on the head with #1.

Sybok is a definite candidate for excommunication from the church of Star Trek canon. They could have “taken a mulligan” on the whole movie, as far as I’m concerned.

I’ve had better experiences getting a root canal than I did watching STV: The Great Trek Turd Of ’89.

Beyond Kirk’s death in Generations, I didn’t much care for him basically (and very suddenly) becoming Shatner the equestrian either. I know that can be traced to STV as well, but I got the feeling (seeing Kirk in the nexus) that he was living Pike’s “what if” inspired illusion in “The Cage”/”The Menagerie”….not anything that belonged to Jim Kirk.

219. krikzil - December 11, 2008

#217–“C’mon, who’s with me? It would’ve made a great movie! As Sybok himself would say, “You KNOW I am right!”

and

#218-Closet–“”But you hit the nail on the head with #1.

Sybok is a definite candidate for excommunication from the church of Star Trek canon. They could have “taken a mulligan” on the whole movie, as far as I’m concerned.”

I like that actor but gosh, that character grated on every nerve I had. Plus the whole Sarek married a princess nonsense….sheesh. The studio was so out to lunch to greenlight that film.

As for the whole horse thing…that was just Shatner’s RL intruding on our Trek. It’s like his books — whatever was going on in his life, ended up in Kirk’s too.

220. screaming satellite - December 11, 2008

regarding the question of wether or not the novels are canon…what about the movie tie ins ? – Surely TMP by Gene Roddenberry is canon??..

221. Closettrekker - December 11, 2008

#220—-I love the novelizations, particularly the ones by Vonda McIntyre.

But they are not canon.

I will say that some of the material in the novelizations, had it been incorporated in the films, would have made them better.

Example(1): Saavik’s backstory in TWOK and TSFS explaining her heritage and the reasons her emotions were so close to the surface; Kirstie Alley actually plays the character with that backstory in mind, all mention of which was cut from the film. If you didn’t know that backstory, you might think her performance was poor, and certainly “unVulcan-like”.

Example(2): Uhura’s evasion of Starfleet security and escape to asylum with Sarek at the Vulcan Embassy in TSFS was thrilling and fantastic. It would have made a great scene, IMO.

As for the TMP novelization, I find it to actually be rather poorly written, GR or not. The director’s cut of the film is vastly superior to the theatrical cut or the novelization (in my opinion).

Some of them would be fine by me as canon, but it’s hard to justify arbitrarily cherry-picking some, while leaving others alone.

It’s best to say that none of it is canon. The best portions of them can be described as “fanon” (like the Saavik backstory for example).

I keep it simple. I only consider live action Star Trek to be ‘canon’, with the lone exception of TAS “Yesteryear” (which is far too often referenced in live action productions to be ignored canonically).

222. Okie Trekker - December 11, 2008

# 209: “Moreover, it couldn’t very well have been 20 years since her refit, given that the film was set 15 years after “Space Seed”. That would place TMP before the five year mission”

Good point. I’d forgotten the 15 years after Space Seed timeframe.

223. Closettrekker - December 11, 2008

#219—“As for the whole horse thing…that was just Shatner’s RL intruding on our Trek. It’s like his books — whatever was going on in his life, ended up in Kirk’s too.”

I never read any of his books, but that is certainly true of his later portrayals of the character onscreen.

Somewhere the line got blurred (in his mind) between Shatner and Kirk, and that wasn’t a good thing for his performances. Bill was given too much creative control and/or influence, and the character suffered.

He was great when kept in check by a strong director, like Nick Meyer or Robert Wise (who I think, despite some fan opinions to the contrary, got a great performance out of him that really put the character where he was supposed to be at that awkward point in his life). It is clear to me that the equestrian angle of Jim Kirk towards the end was all Shatner. I could have done without that…and the goofy death scene.

224. krikzil - December 11, 2008

“I could have done without that…and the goofy death scene.”

Well, I don’t blame him for the death scene — that was the evil writers. :) Well, I DO blame him for doing the dang movie, so I guess I do have some issue there. What’s scary is that the original death scene was even worse.

225. Terence Akins - January 6, 2009

Star Trek 2 and Star Trek 6 are in my opinion some of the Best STAR TREK (aside from 4, which was directed by Leonard Nimoy) movies directed by non-fans of Star Trek. I am very pleased(so far) with the explanations and how the delicate balance they are trying to walk in order to honor STAR TREK as a piece of wonderful entertainment that has been around for 45 years. I’m very excited to see this fim

226. Larissa Mieszala - April 21, 2011

Hiya! Quick question that’s completely off topic. Do you know how to make your site mobile friendly? My blog looks weird when browsing from my apple iphone. I’m trying to find a theme or plugin that might be able to correct this problem. If you have any suggestions, please share. Thank you!

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