Jonathan Frakes Reveals Big ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Spoiler

(Photo: Twitter/Sarah Gardner)

This weekend Creation is holding its first 2017 Star Trek-themed Continuing Voyage Tour conventions in Chicago which included a reunion of Star Trek: The Next Generation stars Gates McFadden, Marina Sirtis, Michael Dorn, Brent Spiner, LeVar Burton, Denise Crosby and Jonathan Frakes. However, the biggest moment of the event was about another show, Star Trek: Discovery. If you don’t want to be spoiled, you should stop reading now.

Star Trek: TNG Reunion at Continuing Voyage Tour Chicago 2017 (Twitter/Jessica Ninnes)



Discovery goes Mirror

During the event Jonathan Frakes made a major revelation about Star Trek: Discovery. Frakes is in the know because he directed an episode of Discovery earlier this year. According to a number of social media posts from the event, the former Commander Riker divulged that Discovery will be doing a Mirror Universe episode. One of these tweets came from the popular Star Trek band 5 year Mission, who are at the Chicago con performing on stage for the event.

Frakes also predicted fans will be pleased by the pilot which airs next weekend.

TrekMovie spoke to of Andy Fark of 5 Year Mission following the event and he confirmed the tweets and said that Frakes did not say the episode he directed was the one dealing with the Mirror Universe, but was talking about the show in general. Frakes did say the episode he directed was very Klingon heavy.

4th Trek series to use Mirror Universe

The Mirror Universe is an iconic part of Star Trek which was introduced during the second season of The Original Series. In the episode “Mirror, Mirror” written by Jerome Bixby, Captain Kirk, Lieutenant Uhura, Dr. McCoy and Scotty were transported into a parallel universe due to a transporter accident. This Mirror Universe had a dark and brutal Terran Empire in place of the peaceful United Federation of Planets and it took all their wits, and a little help from a the bearded Mr. Spock of that universe to return them home. 

Star Trek: The Next Generation never revisited this Mirror Universe in the 24th century, but Deep Space Nine did and found a lot of changes occurred, which were set in motion by Kirk’s interaction with the Mirror Spock a century before. DS9 eventually did five episodes that dealt with the Mirror Universe in one way or another. Star Trek: Voyager never did an episode related to the Mirror Universe but Enterprise did.

However, unlike The Original Series and Deep Space Nine, on Enterprise there was no direct interaction between main characters from the different universes. Instead the 2-part “In a Mirror, Darkly” was set entirely in the Mirror Universe and it even included a more sinister version of the opening credits. The opening scene also showed a different take on Star Trek: First Contact.

It will be interesting to see how Discovery deals with the Mirror Universe and maintains canon. Will we see Discovery characters visit the Mirror Universe or Mirror Universe characters visit the Prime Universe? And is it Federation characters, Klingon characters or both? Or will they take the Enterprise route and have no character crossovers. They have a lot of options and we will just have to wait and see. 

One thing is for sure, this shows that the writers and producers of Discovery are not afraid to play with some of the most iconic elements of Star Trek lore. Even though only a handful of episodes dealt with the Mirror Universe, it is still culturally relevant. Just this week when Apple introduced their new iPhones with facial recognition, to make the point that their ID software was accurate, they made a gag you only need to worry about someone unlocking your phone if you have an evil twin. And of course how else to demonstrate this then by showing the famous bearded Spock from the Mirror Universe.

Apple visited the Mirror Universe just this week


Star Trek: Discovery premieres on September 24th on CBS with all subsequent episodes on CBS All Access in the US.  In Canada Star Trek: Discovery will premiere  on Bell Media’s CTV and the Space Channel on the same night. Netflix will launch Star Trek: Discovery on Monday, September 25 to countries outside of the U.S. and Canada.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.


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Mirror Universe?? Why? So nothing that happened in the original series was “original”

I’m not counting the Enterprise Mirror Universe episode. Oh never mind where is the damn delete button for this stuff anyway.

Enterprise is canon. Deal with it.

Don’t tell people to deal with your subjective beliefs. :-P

“Enterprise” is canon. That’s objective.

Yes, Enterprise is definitely canon, so much that it should have lasted seven seasons. This wonder had nothing to envy to TNG, DS9 or Voyager.


Only one or a few episodes will be in mirror universe, not the whole show.

Great news.
I wonder what Mirrorverse Burnham will be like?

You can bet the mirror episode won’t be like any we have seen before due to social pressures.

Social pressures?

There are those who have a conflict brewing within them that both embrace Star Trek and are struggling with what Star Trek has always represented. “Social pressures” is code for diversity and inclusion.

Exactly Denny. It’s funny to see these “fans” disengage their cloaking device. Will be fun to watch them squirm through this season.

You seem to forget that DS9’s mirror universe already completely flipped the mirror universe status quo. And that in the original, the human race was a group of oppressors.

So if they go back to that (since it’s only 10 years prior to the original Mirror, Mirror), the modern day parallels of racism and oppression will already be inherently present.

“Social pressures” – because he/she didn’t want to say ‘Diversity’ or ‘LGBT friendly’ – which is ironic since Mirror Kira clearly was bisexual, thus showing that sort of “social” behavior – I prefer ‘social relevance’ – has been there, done that already by Trek. Also, non-mirror Dax shared the first bi/lesbian kiss with another Trill – granted, the writers framed it with “she’s Trill, they change genders depending on host, so it’s not like its human women kissing each other”, also been there, done that.

It’s interesting to note that Trek has always trumpeted certain events that show diversity but always framed the events in the context of it happening due to coercion (Kirk/Uhura kiss – which must have sent the message to a certain segment of the population along the lines of “those ‘gods’ are evil, they made Kirk kiss a black woman”), or non-humans engaged in it. It’s at once a cop-out, and a sneaky way to slip forbidden concepts into the series to (hopefully) get people to think about them – or at least an attempt to satisfy both sides of this debate and get past the censors and network brass…

The big hope here, that has certain peoples knickers in a twist, is that this series will show this stuff without contextualizing it in non-humans or coercion – that real humans are doing it because they WANT to.

Nailed it. Excellent response.

This should be good, I love Mirror Universe episodes.

They have to do space Nazis too

Of course. And space cowboys. The Borg. And tribbles. This show practically writes itself!

No need for originality.

@Devin Serpa,

Indeed. They should rename the show ‘Star Trek: Greatest Hits’!

Wow. Ahmed… you have already seen every episode and know exactly what they are about? Please. Do share your infinite wisdom with us.

@Trek fan 67,

I’d love to but your brain can’t handle my infinite wisdom! :)

Infinite wisdom from ahmed. Now THAT is funny! You should write for Orville… they need help in that area.

So exciting!Franks knows Trek. I believe him of he says the mission is a go!
Can’t wait for next Sunday!

who is that franks? a super fan? ;)

What an original idea! Hopefully they will come across the Guardian of Forever, the doomsday machine and the Organians as well!

That would be pretty awesome. Also, tribbles!

@Legate Damar,

Ha! I was being sarcastic.

As for tribbles no worries, you will see them!

From the official star trek site interview with the showrunner Harberts:

Harberts: Akiva (Goldsman) wanted a Tribble. He’s like, “We’re having a tribble.” “OK, we’ll have a Tribble.”

Ahmed, why don’t you go write some stuff, since you’re so original and so much knows what makes a show good. There’s an entire successful career ahead of you! Don’t waste those precious characters on us!

@Spock Jenkins, Salvador Nogueira,

My apologies if my comments have caused you any emotional distress. In the future, please refrain from reading them.

Ahmed you were emotionally distraught and personally offended at reasonable criticism of Orville. Perhaps your advice is worth taking yourself

Regardless when posting to a board like this you can’t expect your silliness to go Unresponded to.

In the future, refrain from writing them. Even better.

@Ahmed – feel free to not tune in to the show. No one is forcing you to receive every minutae of information about the programme.

I have to point out (with my usual chuckle) that this is, uh, a discussion forum.

Where discussions are going to take place.

Don’t like the beginning of a discussion, move onto another one. Y’see, that’s the beauty of it. It’s a DISCUSSION FORUM so there will be multiple discussions.

Oh, and sometime, you won’t agree with everything you read. That’s what a discussion is.

Moving on.

Discovery can’t win with you. No matter what they do you’ll tear it to shreds. That much is clear at this point. Good day, sir.

Sorry, Legate, was responding to Ahmed the Whiner.


Sorry if I’m not lapping up at all the rehashed elements they are bringing back from TOS.

Show me something original and I will praise it to the skies.

Not true, actually. You’ve criticized just about everything that’s been revealed about this show, and much of that criticism has had nothing to do with issues about originality. Which is certainly your right, if a little tiresome.

I’ve already expressed some doubt about producing a “mirror” episode this early in DSC’s run, but find it ironic that the same people who have criticized all the changes to the extent they refer to DSC as STINO (Trek in name only) will now seize upon this news as proof that the show runners are creatively bankrupt. Seriously, they can’t win. Trek fans are the worst.

@Michael Hall,

When CBS announced the new series in November 2015, I was extremely excited that we’re finally getting a new Star Trek show set in the prime universe. The hiring of Bryan Fuller a few months later was more reassuring considering his history with Star Trek.

I was less enthusiastic when it was revealed that the new show is yet another prequel, although now we know that was CBS’s decision. But with Fuller’s involvement I was hoping that we might get something completely new.

Then we find out that ‘Discovery’ is a dark gritty show about a war with the Klingons, a race that I’ve no interest in after the past five series. They keep reintroducing elements and characters from TOS like Sarek, Amanda, Mudd and to top it that they made the star of the show the adopted sister of Spock. And now they are reintroducing mirror universe!

So far, from what know, they don’t seem to have something truly new or original to offer, that might change once we see the episodes but I’m not confident about that.

But the cast especially Jason Isaacs, James Frain and Michelle Yeoh are competent & the production values are great.

As for lack of vision, it seems that some reporters who went on the sets tour last month feel the same way. A reporter from AVclub wrote the following in his set report:

“Despite inheriting Fuller’s outline—not to mention having 12 episodes in the can at the time of our visit—the show’s vision doesn’t seem very clear at the moment, politics aside.”

I believe the prequel idea was Fuller’s. His idea was to start here and jump from era to era.


I don’t believe you. They could produce a creatively revolutionary, Emmy winning series and you’d find something to complain about.


“I don’t believe you.”

Do I look like I care?

You’re welcome to carry on with your name-calling but we’re done here.

Original? Like Orville?

And you just know he’s chomping at the bit to thrash the first episode. Even if he actually loves it. He would ever admit it how.


People like Achmed will change their arguments no matter what you present them. They complain about it being too visually different without explanation, and when the producers say “don’t worry we’ll explain it” they move their argument to “it’s too grim dark, where’s the sense of wonder?” and then producers say “it’s filled with a sense of hope, optimism, and wonder” and the argument becomes, “well it’s so unoriginal.”

If the series turns out to provide an interesting creative twist, I’m sure he’ll find something that makes it terrible, and no matter how bad Orville is, he’ll find reasons to call it “True Trek.”

I mean, this is a guy who feels the need to trash the name of the episode, and even the fonts used on the bridge.

@TUP … you KNOW that ahmed will be the first to post and thrash the show when Trek Movie posts it’s review.

Hopefully he’s careful not to hit “Post Comment” too soon by accident. has to wait for at least, what, 30 seconds of episode to pass.

To be fair, I posted a review of orville at the 4 minute mark. Thats all I needed…but I followed it up. Im curious to see if, at the 4 minute mark, my opinion of Discovery is any different!

I bet ahmed already has his scathing review written and ready to cut and paste in the forum.

Poor Ahmed. So desperate for Discovery to fail! I actually feel bad. What a miserable existence you must have. Go on and enjoy Orville. For as long as it lasts.

Yes because the Orville was certainly original lol

Seriously. I feel like some of these guys need to seek therapy.

After 51yrs there is bound to be repeats of some ideas. We have seen this before where episodes are basically copies of one from a prievious series. For example: we had the episode Shadowplay on DS9 and then Oasis on Enterprise. Rene Auberjonois, who played Odo on DS9, even starred in both shows. However, there comes a point when it gets to be too much copying. That’s what I think some fans are concerned about and I can understand that. I personally want Discovery to be able to stand on its own two feet while still feeling like it’s a part of the prime universe and it’s canon. It will be a tricky balancing act for the writers, producers, and everyone else associated with the show. I wish them good luck. No matter what there will be people who love it and those that hate it but it will still be Star Trek for someone.

51 years. Including 6 tv shows with 30 seasons, 725 episodes; 13 feature films.

Yeah, going to be hard to be completely original. Didn’t South Park have an episode called “Simpsons Already Did It” where one of them says something to the effect of “The Simpsons have done EVERYTHING, it’s impossible come up with something original”?

And if the producers had found some kernel of an idea that Trek had somehow NEVER done, people like Ahmed would gripe that “it’s a ripoff of [insert other sci-fi movie, show, or book].”

Because as the saying goes, “there is nothing new under the sun.”

In hindsight that should have been the title of the first episode.

If Orville did a spoof of Mirror Universe, and did it badly as would be likely based on the first two episodes, Ahmed would call it a refreshing twist. lol


There is a ‘Discovery’ fans group on Facebook that is tailored for people like you. Their official policy is allowing fawning comments only; any other comments with different views will be removed and the users banned immediately! Made by snowflakes, for snowflakes!

Sounds like the perfect safe space for you.

And there are Facebook groups for people like you, where no fairness, open-mindedness, and optimism are allowed.

Hmm, a snowflake calling someone else a snowflake. Original! You did it. I don’t need a safe space. Your opinions don’t bother me at all, but you are so full of hatred for something no one has seen in its entirety that it borders on insanity. And you praise Orville for being ST in disguise basically. It’s sci-fi for sure and a different take but it is not ST. I haven’t offered up my opinion of DISC yet since I haven’t seen it as I will wait and watch it and then decide. You’ve already decided and that’s sad.


You seem very distressed that someone is not sharing your precious opinion, to you it comes off as “hatred”. That’s pretty much makes you a snowflake.

“I haven’t offered up my opinion of DISC yet since I haven’t seen it”

Right? So you have zero reactions to the trailers, the marketing, the endless interviews with the cast & production team. Good for you for keeping your mind blank!

Here in the real world, when studios release trailers and whatnot, people tend to express their reactions to that, a weird concept to you, I’m sure.

Seriously, go and subscribe to the Facebook group, it will make you feel better.

You are hilarious. Everyone here knows how you’ve been. It is an unhealthy obsession of yours wanting to see DISC fail. Who knows, maybe it will.

Of course I have reactions, but I have no need to argue about them. For the most part I am encouraged and that’s about all I can say. There isn’t near enough information out there for me to say much else. I enjoy reading opinions and yours is the harshest and you are the one distressed about anyone not sharing your “precious” opinion.

After the premiere I will come in an offer a true opinion. Clips, trailers do not tell any of the story. Only watching the show from beginning to end will tell the tale.

You are at least entertaining! What will piss off Ahmed next???

I get it now! Ahmed is actually Seth MacFarlane! lol

This worries me a bit. Seeing mirror versions of characters when we’re just getting to know the non-mirror ones seems a bit risky.

I agree that could be the trouble with it. However, trying to be optimistic, I could postulate that a mirror universe could actually serve as a foil to help us acquaint ourselves with the new characters. Given that the mirror universe is (typically) and INVERSE of the Prime Timeline, seeing the flipped characteristics of Burnham will inform us further about who OUR Burnham is, too.

@Mawazi & Etymologicool — agreed. Seems a bit early to play with this concept. You have to know the new characters pretty well before you throw them in with completely different counterparts. On the other hand, if that’s the premise of a show, it could be easily understood. Didn’t FRINGE do something like that early on? Still when trying to attract a new audience to a franchise they aren’t necessarily familiar with … Seems confusing ….

I agree. Maybe it’ll be something entirely different, though.

It’s possible that they won’t encounter they’re mirror counterparts and will instead experience something entirely unexpected. I suspect that we’ll see a callback to Enterprise.

Good point, Mawazi. I think using certain elements of TOS is great, even encouraged (except introducing us to ‘young’ versions of the TOS Enterprise crew, I hope they don’t go there). But it may be too much, too soon. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.

What if it’s the Klingons that go to the mirror universe, not the Discovery crew? Frames does say the episode is Klingon Heavy.

No, he said the episode that he directed was Klingon Heavy.
We don’t know that Frakes directed the Mirror episode.

Is Frames a director of discovery ;) ?

Yes, you may also have seen him playing a character named Rimer on another sci-fi show.

Two words: belly buttons!

Is it THE Mirror Universe or A Mirror Universe?

What if what we will be watching is all “Mirror” universe? Hmm? Would explain the lack of a Sister in our original Prime time line.

saybok wasnt mentioned before and spock is secretive…. no problem here unless you really want it.

Yaaaay! As someone who is afraid this show is just going to be one fan service piece, I have to admit this made me pretty excited. I always loved seeing the Mirror Universe and especially what they did with it in DS9. In fact I watched all of them (in chronological order) last year from Enterprise to DS9. They are fun! Now to see Discovery adding to that universe will be interesting since, um, it all looks so different. Now I can’t wait to see how they do it!


It would score a lot of points for me if they incorporate my long-standing theory they leaving peacenik utopian Edith Keeler alive was the universe-splitting point in time that created the alternate reality of the Mirror Universe. Just like the Nero-thing resulted in the Abrams-verse branching off. We know that Keeler messed up the world enough for the Nazis to win. Certainly the Terran Empire could have descended from that.

Wow that would be a great jumping off point and a nice tie in to TOS. Edith died in the prime universe but her living in the other set up the future Spock was afraid of that ultimately lead to the terrain empire. I like that idea!

Was this a novel at some point? Or a fanfic?

Not so sure how I feel about this–seems pretty inside-baseball and derivative so early in the series’ run, especially given the serialized nature of DSC’s story. Well, maybe they’ll make it work. We’ll see.

Regarding Frakes’ opinion of the pilot – some ominous signs for the naysayers and the those with agendas…..”hello darkness my old friend”…
Honest question – did Frakes say anything similar about the Orville? (Since he’s involved with both shows) I know there are some diehard Orville/Braga-rised fans out there on this site that can answer and inform

I’ll take that as a no. So looks like Frakes was just doing a favour for begging braga

He “says the freak outs are unfounded and you’ll be amazed.”

But why then give it a TV-MA rating? If my “freak-outs” are unfounded, a TV-14 rating as in NuBSG, Gotham, Arrow, Dark Matter or Stranger Things should have done the trick.
The TV-MA rating has to stand for something gross not present in any of the afore-mentioned shows which are all very gritty, dark and violent. It has to be something present in GOT, TWD, AmGods, Westworld or any other TV-MA show. So it’s either really bad language (which I could live with), nudity (which I doubt) and / or the VERY graphic depiction of bloody violence… What is it?

New phaser effects, showing the vaporization process in great detail (skinning victims alive, burning them, 5-seconds agony, graphic implosion of the mutilated body, “living” left-overs)? A transporter accident shown in great graphic detail? Klingons chopping off heads and cutting throats by the hundreds with their Batleths and feeding their enemies to Targs alive?
All stuff that has already been mentioned or implued on Trek for decades but has never been shown for a reason… TNG’s “Conspiracy” ending, but ten times as much in every other act of the show???

This would be more than just one reason to “frake out”…

Smike, get over it already. Jesus.

“Smike, get over it already. Jesus.”

Unfortunately, there isn’t any push button or touch screen available to turn off my concerns. I have been caught up in that loop for months now and with only one week until DISCO, it becomes increasingly difficult to deal with it.

Even if it turns out that the TV-MA rating is only based on a couple of hard-on war scenes, I cannot tell myself “there is nothing to worry about”…

“It’s just a TV show” doesn’t work either, because what else is there but movies and TV shows?

The genre is the only reason I still get up every day, the very reason I work for. And Star Trek is still its most pivotal part. It has been like that since I was 13 and it has never been any different for 24 years now. I checked out other hobbies (soccer fan, Irish pubs, even politics) but none of it can ever replace sci-fi and fantasy. Without the GENRE I wouldn’t have had the motivation to graduate, study or achieve anything at all. The genre is my life and now it’s been slowly turned into something less desirable… including Trek! There is no way I can get “over it” any time soon. Sorry…

What else is there but movies and TV shows? And you’re 39?

Smike, and I mean this respectfully, you really do need to “get a life”! It’s not just a cliché for you, it’s a fact.

You need perspective on what’s really important in life.

Sci-fi and specifically Star Trek are an excellent escape mechanism, but you need something to escape from. It can’t be your prime reality. It’s not healthy and it’s not going to work for you.

I’m 37 :-)
Well, but so far my main focus on genre TV and cinema has worked very well for me until about six months ago, when the first rumors about DSC being utterly “mature” came in.

A lot of my friends are a lot like me, even worse :-) I know two guys I go the movies every other week, while they themselves go EVERY week :-)

So yeah, I know a lot of people whose prime focus is movies and TV and apart from my job, there had been nothing else I needed until recently.

Get a life, get laid and all that stuff is a boring cliché. Why would I let a woman dicate what I do and how I live??? I decided long ago that this was an absolute no-go for me!
I have a life and it’s genre movies and TV shows. Full stop. This lifestyle may be not everyone’s cup of tea, but then again, other people join convents or cloisters or decide to live in a lonely shag in the woods.
My only issue is that my hobby has taken a very dark turn. If you think of my TV shows and movie franchises as “my children” for a moment, it now feels as if my elder daughter is a prostitute now, my elder son got tattoos all over his body at the age of 14, my younger daughter is doing drugs and my youngest son is a bully soon-to-be convict. That’s how I feel about recent developments in genre entertainment. I may take it too personal though. You’re right about that!

Smike, you’re 37 man, cone on. Nothing on Discovery won’t be anything you haven’t seen in multiple films and shows already. If you are this bothered, then simply don’t watch the show and focus on all the other past shows.

And in all honesty, you probably need to focus on other things in life with these bizarre diatribes. Star Trek isn’t your kids, its a TV show even if a very addicting one for many of us.

You know, the funny thing is that nowadays, most TV-MA genre shows are given the exact same age certificate in Germany as those TV-14 genre shows: 16! So even if DSC was rated TV-14, it might have ended up 16+ in my country… instead of the 12+ rating most of the other 28 Star Trek season received (minus DS9 Season 7 for one particular episode and TOS Season 2 for that infamous Nazi episode that was banned for decades)

Why does this even matter to me that much? I’ve asked myself that very question for months now and I’m still not fully able to wrap my head around it. But I think it basically boils down to this:

I used to be very upfront and extroverted when it comes to my geekdom. I used to dress as Capatin Jack Sparrow, The Emperor from Star Wars, The Joker from TDK for costume festivals. I used to wear lots of genre-related T-Shirts. I even used to speak some Klingon lines for fun… but all of these movies or TV shows were rated 12+ in my place, so nothing to worry about, nothing to hide from the eyes of my students aged 11-17. I also used genre content to make up creative grammar exercises for my English classes.

But when it comes to 16+ movies or series, I am technically obliged to keep those contents from my students. I can still privately watch that stuff, but I cannot openly admit to it by wearing GOT or TWD shirts. But now, Star Trek is in that very same league and I hate the idea of having to hide my franchise number one from my students… It’s not like those kids don’t watch that stuff anyway, but I am not allowed to advertise it in any way. That makes it so hard to stomach…

Then wear a TNG shirt to work. Discovery doesn’t change the rating of all the previous shows.

I don’t wear genre-related shirts TO WORK. OMG, that’s a crazy thought. Maybe during carneval season :-) No, but even in private you are certainly under a lot of scrutiny in my job and no, I don’t want to be spotted in a GOT or TWD shirt on a Friday night either.

And no, DSC is changing the overall perception of the entire franchise, no matter how tame the older shows might have been. It’s called “recency effect”… The more recent entries dominate public perception of a franchise. So, personally it does feel as lot like all of Trek being “upgraded” to TV-MA right now…

If Trek and SF is your reason for getting up in the morning, you need a better one, respectfully. If the present state of the world depresses you–and it probably should–get out and find some ways within your abilities to push it in the direction of that hopeful future we all wish to see. It’s a rotten time, and I often despair of it myself, but despair really isn’t an option.

I heard a disturbing report on National Public Radio yesterday about the growing popularity of Germany’s far-right AFD party. Decent Germans like yourself need to stand up to those SOBs and their vile beliefs in any way you can. That’s a much better motivation for living than watching television or movies, trust me.

You’re absolutely right about that AFD party of ours I hate them to the fullest. But unfortunately, doing something about that isn’t THAT easy. I deal with these issues at work every single day but the more you speak out against them, the more some people take it as proof that you are part of the corrupted system trying to hold them down. That’s exactly how your POTUS was able to defeat H. Clinton’s multi-billion-dollar campaign… And it’s happening in lots of countries: Hungary, Poland, Turkey… I’ll do the best I can, no doubt about that, as I do take my job as a teacher very seriously.

So this is already part of my life. But it’s also part of my life having to deal with my students talking about the latest TWD or GOT episodes…or Logan, or Deadpool… and now IT… All of this becoming omnipresent, all-age mainstream hurts, and Star Trek joining the club is even worse…

BTW: The AFD’s Alexander Gauland looks and feels so much like TOS’ John Gill, which makes him even spookier…

“But unfortunately, doing something about that isn’t THAT easy.”

Sure it is. Vote for the CDU. Attend a rally. That’s probably more important than Star Trek, to be honest.

And your students are talking about Star Trek again? My God, can’t have that.

I don’t think Frakes was specifically referring to you and your particular freak out.

“I don’t think Frakes was specifically referring to you and your particular freak out.”

I’m sure he was. But then, it doesn’t have to be related to my ramblings. There are enough instances of skepticism over that TV-MA rating on YouTube and other platforms. Either way, my concerns regarding that rating stand…

For someone who supposedly doesn’t like graphic depiction of violence you sure spend a lot of time coming up with all kinds of “cool” gory violence for the producers to do on Discovery.

“For someone who supposedly doesn’t like graphic depiction of violence you sure spend a lot of time coming up with all kinds of “cool” gory violence for the producers to do on Discovery.”

There you are spot-on! It comes off strange to say the least.

But I can explain.

First there is a part of me who has actively forced myself to watch as many TV-MA shows and R-Rated / Unrated horror movies recently to prepare for DSC… so yeah, one could say, I’ve tried to deal with it via shock therapy… with mixed success to say the least.

Second I’m not against graphic depiction of violence as a whole but I’m against it as PART OF THE MAINSTREAM, watched by entire families as obligatory watching. I don’t want it in multi-billion dollar franchises. I’m fine with horror movies making 30-80 million in the US, but when they start making 200+ million, it’s just creepy. I was fine with Spartacus pulling in 1-2 million viewers, but when GOT and TWD rose above the 15 million viewers, I started to worry…

I’m generally fine with adult-oriented stuff, as long as it is kept seperate from all-age mainstream. As long as it was kept under the radar, it was fun. But now that these boundaries are breaking down, and kids are watching that stuff by the millions, it’s no longer fun at all… it’s just insane!

Make no mistake. I used to be a gorehound. I own hundreds of bloody horror movies, often having to order them from the UK, the US or Austria because of the German censorship system. I have supported that stuff for twenty years! But I kept mentally filed it under “video nasty” well below the radar of public attention.
Yeah, there have been some R-Rated smash hits every five years… The Matrix trilogy, 300, Passion of the Christ, but it never was a pop cultural wave of epic proportion.

TWD and GOT have changed all that. Now we had Deadpool, Logan, IT… three huge R-Rated hits within less than two years, and Hollywood is gearing up to expand in that section. With almost every PG-13 tentpole having failed in 2017, you cannot even blame them for taking advantage of that new opportunity. But it’s getting out of control these days, on both, the small screen and the big screen!

So basically you’re saying you’ve been a huge fan of graphic violence for 20 years. And it’s perfectly fine if you watch and enjoy it. But suddenly now that it’s getting popular with more people it’s bad. You’re either really hypocritical or you must really hate yourself.

Well Smike you can continue to complain in a circle or you can wait to see it and decide if it’s deserving of the rating.

Well considering the TV-MA rating this show has, having a mirror episode brings dirty thoughts to my mind.

Indeed it does. And worrisome those thoughts are. Dark place they might lead us to. Entirely vanish all decency will. A grindhouse show this series may become.

But then, there is nothing to worry about, Yoda!

The mirror universe is one place I’d be okay with it earning it’s rating. I don’t like the TVMA rating either, but I’ll deal with it if the show is good. Again, not ideal, but I’m not a rigid, antiquarian fusspot.

In Canada, at least on my guide, there is no rating.

Hmm did anyone else see this page on the feedly app? The final ‘evil twin’image was used as the main one on the app, spoiling it for me!

We knew this already. Just check IMDB, one of the actors cast is the ‘ISS Discovery First Officer’ for one episode.

“Star Trek: Voyager never did an episode related to the Mirror Universe”
No, but the VOY episode “living witness” was some kind of mirror-universe-version of VOY.

One of VOY’s best shows, too. Quite clever. Alternate versions of that crew were always more interesting than the “real” one.

I think one thing Braga does bring to his shows is some clever story sparks. One thing he desperately needs is a co-producer who can execute his ideas in a strong fashion. It’s why when working alongside the likes of Ron Moore, Trek produced some great stuff.

Mirror Universe would certainly shed some light on why Burnham changes her hairstyle.

Because regular women don’t ever change their hairstyles?

It has been suggested that the change in hairstyle is just to show the passage of time between her time on Shenzhou and her time on Discovery. Supposedly, all the images/clips we’ve seen so far are from the first maybe 3 episodes. So unless the whole show switches between universes repeatedly I doubt we’ve seen any Mirror Universe shots yet.

Not really a spoiler by my standards. The premier has to be awesome or relatively few will follow it into subscription/extortion CBS All access

Even if ZERO subscribers follow it to CBSAA, there are millions of viewers all over the world who will watch it on their local TV and on Netflix.

If that occurs, expect it to move to Netflix for future seasons.

Yeah there is definitely a safety net for discovery in that cbs can change its delivery method if it needs to.

It sure sounds like they’re committed to all Access though. And they extended the season so they must think discovery is good.

I expect a quick announcement about a renewal on All Access

Safety net is a perfect way of putting it. If they were 100% confident in CBSAA they’d have never done that deal, they’d have rolled out the app worldwide. They seem very confident in the show, but not necessarily the service.

Im not sure thats the case. I think they are confident in the service over time but rolling out and supporting a service like this takes time. You dont just flick a switch and have it work everywhere.

I think they feel Star Trek is going to be their flagship show and the fact its very expensive, the deal with Netflix made sense. It juices All Access in their biggest market, essentially for free due to financing from Netflix.

Interestingly, their deal in Canada is similar to another OTT service I followed closely, that of WWE Network. They surprised a lot of people by selling rights to Rogers exclusively in Canada and reported that the financial offer was simply too good to pass up in favour of their own direct to consumer OTT launch.

@Dan Pressler — exactly, there’s no way I would spend a single cent to see another episode of ORVILLE after that stinker of a pilot episode — even to see Frakes direct an episode, or potential Trek alum cameos … If DISC first episode is that bad, then it deserves its fate. Of course, I can watch a month of DISC for free via CBSAA initial subscription, so I’ll happily tune in, even if the pilot is terrible, to see if it gets any better. But that’s all the time they’ve got with me, unless it’s great ;-)

I had my suspicions about the poor quality of The Orville because it seemed like Fox was over selling it
In the case case of most new shows , i give them 3 episodes to win me over.
sInce we are talking about a new Star Trek series, I will give Discovery 8 episodes to win me over.

i will give it 7 seasons…

@Jako – lol I agree! Its Star Trek, the reason we’re all here (other then those few people confusing this with an Orville site!). I think Enterprise is the only series I tapped out of…during the Xindi storyline. It became too easy to miss and not care. I went back for season 4.

few…. lol… its still star trek.

Guess I’ll be one of the relatively few, then. If I’d stopped watching TNG after “Encounter at Farpoint” I would have missed-out on some pretty good Trek, after all. But then, I don’t consider subscribing to a streaming service to be extortion either.

Just saying as a lifelong fan of Star Trek everything I was so looking forward to viewing Discovery only to find out that CBS was a teaser! I happen to live in rural America and don’t have high speed internet to be able to stream, nor do I have pricey satellite service. I am lucky if my phone works half the time and I am sure I am not the only one. Thanks alot CBS what a disappointment.

@Duana Boyd — with all due empathy, you’d better get used to it.

Yes. Cbs sucks for inventing streaming. Lol

Hey, Duana, they announced it as exclusive to CBS AA on November 2, 2015, upon its first announcement.

From the article:

“The new series will blast off with a special preview broadcast on the CBS Television Network. The premiere episode and all subsequent first-run episodes will then be available exclusively in the United States on CBS All Access.”

You could lobby your local internet provider to provide better service. Unless that is CBS, its not their fault.

Maybe it will be a mirror universe episode where the Klingons aren’t isolationist racists, and where the future is bright and optimistic.

@Dave Joyce — if you’d also said dumb, I think you might be suggesting a crossover with THE ORVILLE ;-)

Since its coming from Frakes, I wonder if they don’t jump forward to the 24th century and finally get that TNG Mirror episode! Ha! They don’t have a CGI budget big enough to make those guys look right … Ha!

Or maybe it will be an odd mirror universe where Trek fans are accepting, tolerant, open minded, and willing to experience something before ripping it to shreds.

Frakes is winding you all up.

He could be but I doubt it. But yes its possible. I remember when Karl Urban playfully threw out the name Gary Stevens in an interview talking about STID and suddenly the internet was convinced Gary Mitchell was in the movie lol. I remember coming here and reading long essay size posts describing why and how Cumberbatch is really Mitchell. Urban must have laughed his but off for months.

Uh, what? There doing a mirror universe episode before at least two seasons on establishing the series’ prime universe? Sounds like a ratings grab and too soon to be impactful.

They aren’t concerned with traditional ratings so they doesn’t make much sense.

Interesting. I wonder: Who will be the one with the goatee this time around?

Cadet Lilly.

Maybe the maker’s have been messing with us all this time, and the ‘twist’ is that it’s ‘mirror universe’ episode features the actual ‘Prime universe’… ;)

Has anyone considered the possibility that Frakes could be lying about a Mirror Universe storyline? That’s a huge leak in advance of a premiere, given the secrecy of the entire production.

Believe it when you see it, folks.

The title of the second episode is ‘Battle at the Binary Stars’. Sounds better than ‘The Vulcan Hello’.

Titles dont matter. And are often inside jokes or purposely odd

Will there be an Evil Queen and an Apple!?

4th Trek to use the Mirror Universe. Every single Trek including the animated series has used the Mirror Universe. It was not a spoiler to reveal that this will not change with Discovery.

TOS, Animated Series, TNG, Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise — all have had at least one Mirror Universe story.

The animated series, TNG and Voyager never had Mirror Universe episodes.

I bet the pilot will be great. Too bad the show is doomed to fail because they’ll never get enough All Access subscribers to sustain the show.

Entertainment Weekly already spoiled this. There’s a picture of Jason Isaacs in civilian clothes lounging in the Discovery’s captain chair. Zoom in to the dedication plaque on the bulkhead by the turbo lift and it reads “ISS Discovery.” That had me thinking maybe there’s a LOT of mirror universe in Discovery. What if the Shenzhou is in the “good” universe but Captain Llorca and Discovery are the mirror universe. Could explain a lot.

This isn’t a spoiler. Every Star Trek series, TOS, animated series, TNG, Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise, has had a least one Mirror Universe episode. Why would Discovery be any different?

OMG There maybe Multiple Mirror Universe Episodes this is Great.