Reminder: Star Trek: Discovery Ep. 6 “Lethe” Debuts Tonight

Lorca earns a new place in the heart of Burnham (and the audience, perhaps)

Star Trek: Discovery debuts its sixth episode tonight. We’re not sure what to expect from an episode as mysteriously titled as “Lethe”, which is the name of river of forgetfulness in Hades, and can also mean “oblivion.” But, we know Sarek is in trouble and needs rescuing.

“Lethe” was written by Ted Sullivan and Joe Menosky

Preview: “Lethe”

Star Trek: Discovery – Season 1, Episode 6

The USS Discovery crew is intrigued by new addition, Lt. Ash Tyler. Sarek seeks Burnham’s help, rekindling memories from her past. Admiral Cornwell questions Lorca’s tactics.

The episode will be available in the US on CBS All Access at 8:30 pm ET (5:30 PT). In Canada it airs on the Space Channel at 8:00 pm ET (5:00 pm PT).  And it will be available on Netflix outside the USA and Canada on Monday at 8 am BST.

Promo video


Followed by ‘After Trek’ episode 5

The fifth episode of the Discovery after-show After Trek streams live on CBS All Access tonight at 9:30 pm ET. Showrunner Gretchen J. Berg, James Frain (Sarek), creature designer Neville Page, and makeup designer Glenn Hetrick are guests. If you tweet questions to @startrekcbs with the tag #AfterTrek they may be answered during the show.

After Trek also airs on Space in Canada at midnight ET and will be available on Netflix on Monday.

What say you?

TrekMovie will be posting a full review of “Lethe” later. But you don’t have to wait to offer your views in the comments below.


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Looking forward to it.

Ted Sullivan sent out two tweets in which he’s promising “Big secrets come out” and saying:

“Think you know Lorca & Burnham? Think again. Just wait until U see what SonequaMG, jasonsfolly reveal tonight!”

What’s the big secret? In this new dark universe Lorca & Burnham will be revealed as the Fallen Angels Gabriel and Michael readying for the final battle that will change the universe forever!

On a serious note, the episode is co-written by Joe Menosky. This might be a good one; we shall see.

Oh, you were trying to be funny. No wonder you are such a huge fan of the “humour” on orville.

Are you always obnoxious for no reason? Or is that just on this board?

Based on this thread, I’m thinking it has to be a disease that builds and builds with Ransom. Sounds like it was a long time coming, too, or else I just didn’t ever bother finishing or remembering his past comments.

So far they’ve all been good ones. Unlike that trash Orville that fewer and fewer people watch each week, and even fewer people openly admit to. You know, the show that’s basically Voyager Season 8 with dick jokes.

“Voyager season 8 with dick jokes” – LOL so true

Worse than Voyager. At least on Voyager, the characters all acted like they were actually playing the characters. Sometimes watching Orville you wonder if they are airing rehearsals. lol

“What’s the big secret? In this new dark universe Lorca & Burnham will be revealed as the Fallen Angels Gabriel and Michael readying for the final battle that will change the universe forever!”

Not just that… it turns out that Ash Tyler is actually Archangel Ashraphael, a Klingon spy who has infiltrated the Seven Heavens to bring forth the Second Coming of Lord T’Kuvma…

They’re all Hortas….

I kike that one!

Will a shuttle pilot survive the trip? Find out… tonight!

Shuttle pilot is Tyler

We’ve lost two shuttle pilots to horrible death in the past three eps.

spoiler, well at the end another shuttle pilot is dead and the Klingons have the Admiral which Lorca refuses to save so he can keep riding in his porche

Still watching… one pilot flames out… and some ship (a shuttle maybe) gets hit by a rogue comet, killing all, including the pilot. So… Do NOT sign up for shuttle pilot school.

shuttle pilots are the red shirts of this series lol

He didnt refuse to save her. He decided to follow her orders…to the letter. lol

How dumb do ya gotta be to tell your rescuer ‘we’ll punish you when I get back?’ Ha!

yea that was funny, it was like Lorca was praying she gets killed or captured lol when the admiral told Lorca before she left

true lol but we know why lol

It’s not airing locally in Raleigh, NC. So it’s ONLY available on the CBS streaming service. :( So it begins….

Oddly, when I cancelled my trial subscription after 7 days, the site waved its hands and pleaded with me to accept an additional 30-day free trial. Desperate, CBS?

It’s not airing locally anywhere. The whole deal was that DISC is to be the gem of CBS All Access (along with shows like The Good Fight, which isn’t on broadcast either) so that CBS can compete with HBO and other specialty cable services… It’s not exactly news… You can get it on Space (premium cable, only in Canada) or Netflix outside US and Canada, or streaming on Crave TV in Canada, or CBSAA in the US. For now, you can’t purchase a Season Pass on iTunes, but maybe they’ll offer it when Season 2 debuts.

I’d overlooked that, clearly. Still, after last night (and seeing many others on FB complaining of streaming issues last night), I’d say CBS is rolling the dice on a losing streak if this is the way it will proceed. “Premiering” the episodes online and not delivering isn’t a strong sales argument.

The show has my curiosity, even if I’m wincing at it. But not curious enough to pay. :- I’ll catch it one of the major all-you-can-eat streaming services at a later date.

@David — you seem to have formed your opinion and stacking the deck to support it. this is the first time I’ve ever had a problem with CBSAA quality. It’s not like CBS wanted this to happe. You’ve clearly never had the cable go out for the big game, or season finale event.

Its not exclusive to CBS to offer extended trials when cancelling. I suppose its possible that CBS of all things is desperate for “David’s” business. But I doubt it.

@David — I just canceled with Hulu for the second time since I’ve paid for that service, and they didn’t just let me cancel, they “begged” me to keep the service and try it for a few more weeks on them, not once but 3 or 4 times before they finally let me cancel. If I hadn’t been paying attention I probably would have clicked the resume service button. I’d say that seemed pretty desperate too, except Hulu just became the first streaming service to win an Emmy for best series.

Why would they ever set this 10 years before TOS? Look at that bridge. If you’re going to grave-rob TOS, at least respect the vibe of the damn thing.

I understand that’s a real issue for you, but we’re six weeks into this thing already and even the canonistas have mostly moved on to judging the show on its own merits by now. Bottom line: it’s 2017, this show has a substantial budget and the TOS bridge is still made of plywood and resin buttons. How long were you planning on keeping this up?

Oh, move on already. Grow up.

The Enterprise is 20 years old by the time Kirk gets command.

@Nebula Good point. I even I think I remember an Alan Dean Foster TAS novel saying it was 40, or so. Dunno if that made it to the screen (or if I remembered that correctly).

Yes people forget that 1) Discovery is newer than Enterprise AND a “war ship”, presumably built with the most technologically advanced systems. 2) that TOS was the friggen 60’s and by the time of TMP which was only, what 5 years later “in universe”, they had seemingly advanced about 100 years.

If you watch Discovery as a prequel to TMP, it works even more. Saying that, however, we havent seen the Enterprise yet so we shall se what changed they make to the Enterprise or Constitution Class to make it fit within modern tech.

The way Michael mentioned Enterprise it came across as a preferred assignment, so there is respect for the class of ship.

Come on – a good chuck of the tech featured in 23rd century Trek was outdated ten years ago. I get you’re into microtapes, but a Trek series featuring futuristic VHS is going to be a hard sell…

It’s time to get over this. Enterprise was set in an earlier time frame than Discovery and it still had tech that was better than TOS. It’s 2017, they’re not going to make it look like a series produced 50 years ago. Hell, even the JJ movies had better tech than TOS.

I didn’t say “replicate it” I said “respect the vibe”. The new bridge is just a fantasy lightshow. I doesn’t capture the size, the colors or anything even close to the look and feel of Pike’s era. What about the costumes? Why do we as fans praise the disrespect to William Ware Theiss of throwing out his iconic designs? The Abramsverse sucked, but at least they kept the uniforms.

Yawn. You’re six weeks too late.

Old news. The show is a visual reboot. Move on and stop clutching at straws. Bye.

They are absolutely respecting TOS. What show are you watching?

Training holodeck!

Lorca and Admiral sitting in a tree…

Anyone else having trouble streaming? Mine pauses and restarts every few seconds. Very annoying. Maybe CBSAA has increased subscribers without adding bandwidth. Or maybe it’s just me :-)

I’m having the same problem. VERY annoying.

Same here. Pissing me off.

Same issue. Either stops or skips and repeats. Not happy.

Yup. And other streaming services, Hulu, Netflix are fine. C’mon CBS, if you’re going to be a big time streaming service, better have the bandwidth.

It happens. I mean, we’ve had a cable channel drop and no one condemns the technolgy of cable.

Me too. I switched from my Apple TV to my older Amazon Fire TV and it was much less herky-jerky, but still annoying. No problem the previous four weeks.

I wonder if this means more people are signing up for CBS-AA now?

@Thorny — I switched from my AppleTV 4K to the Android app on my smart TV. The picture wasn’t as good, but it streamed perfectly. I’d love to know who had problems with this, and how widespread it was, since from my perspective it appears to be an Apple related problem — it affected the entire CBSAA site though, not just DiSC.

Same here. It drove me crazy.

Yep. Absolute bullshit. So annoyed.

I use a ROKU and had the same problem. I live in the central time zone and gave up trying to watch it until after 8:30p.m. After that it worked with no problem. Think CBS has oversold their bandwith.

Same here – it was horrendous. And I watched it pretty late in the evening several hours after it ‘aired’, so I didn’t understand the problem. I tried on iPhone, iPad, updated app and rebooted devices to no avail. Finally got it working half-decent on AppleTV but it was still green-pixelating and stutteringly repeating about 5 seconds of replay at least 2 to 3 times every minute. I would really prefer to just buy it on iTunes for $3 per episode – then at least have the option of downloading it for playback.

I struggled for two hours to stream it. Apple TV app wouldnt’ connect. iOS app would, but stuttered and glitched like Max Headroom on a bad speedball. App crashed a few times, stopped several times. This morning, seems fixed.

Lots more people on FB were having the same problem while I was posting.

Lol thanks for the MaxH reference 😜

Capt Danno,

Definitely NOT just you. I feel like I’m back in the 90’s using a 2400 baud modem. Glitchy, pause-ey, sticky video feed. This happens even for After-Trek. And no, CBS, it ain’t my connection, we watch many other streaming products with zero issue.

If you ask people to fork out for your premium product, then at minimum please clean up the tehnical issues, CBS.

Show content (when seen): thumbs up!

Also Vulcan now has a blue sky. I think the Discovery people really go out of their way to upset and alienate life-long fans. It seems provocative for the sake of being proactive. Which makes them punks.

Provocative not proactive

Semi blue. It had a blue sky in the Abrams movie too.

Exactly my point.

If they changed the color of the sky to piss you off, i say kudos to them. Because if the color of the sky is what’s pissing you off, you need to re-evaluate your life.

@Torchwood Not a fan of the getting personal every time somebody disagrees with somebody else.

No personal attacks made, look again.

Where are the moderators on this board? They should enforce minimal civil standards. There will always be mean and unsekfawarxpeooke, but they do not need to be permitted to act that way on a discussion board. Such behavior, if tolerated, brings the whole site,and all of us, down to a very low level.

“Mean and un self aware people” is what I meant.

You’re seeing things you want to see, not what is actually there, because you’re being overly sensitive.

Maybe the moderators should monitor annoying diehard fans who are pissed off at a tv show for having the sky for an imaginary planet a different colour….ROLLS EYES

I hope the moderators consider that if people are allowed to attack each other personally, as opposed to respectfully disagreeing with their ideas, that it will hurt this wonderful site. One way is that many intelligent , thoughtful and respectful people will be discouraged from posting here, leaving the board a place where less respectful people dominate. That can’t be good for Trekmovie, or the majority of its fans. Thanks to the moderators for hopefully considering my thoughts on this topic.

@Gary Seven — you drew first blood. You called the DISC producers “Punks”. What kind of feedback do you reasonably expect when you express your ideas towards others like the current president of the USA?

I went and left a comment on the part of the site where you’re supposed to leave feedback to mods several days back, and nothing. Then again, there are only a handful of posts there dating back a couple months, so maybe nobody looks at it. Certainly the absence of moderation let us swear when it is appropriate, but it also lets us swear and say things when they are not appropriate, and to put it plainly (yet ironically), that’s bullshit.

Telling someone to revaluate their life is getting personal. It’s just an opinion.

“Because if the color of the sky is what’s pissing you off, you need to re-evaluate your life.” That’s a personal attack, in my view. Attack others’ ideas, not the other people.

It was evening when Sarek left. We’ve already seen the Vulcan night sky and it’s not orange.

spoiler…spock wow

I know, I enjoyed that background.

Now that they’ve mentioned Spock, its like a sigh of relief. Because it was the elephant in the room. But it makes sense to mention him. And Discovery took a MAJOR piece of Trek Lore and added to it, which is always a big risk.

They hit a home run in my mind. Sarek, the flawed parent, chose his “real” son over Michael. His “real son” ends up declining. lol Amazing in its simplicity.

Now, did Spock decline because he was pissed at the way his “sister” was treated? My impression was always that Spock desperately wanted Sarek’s love and respect and even as he did things that seemingly went against that, it was because Spock had a greater understanding of Sarek than even Sarek did.

Ya, I enjoyed that irony and shows you how hard it is to pick between children no matter if biological or adopted, fantastic back story there.

@somethoughts — but I’m wondering if they’re just ignoring Sybok? Wasn’t Sybok older?

I think Sybok is being ignored as nobody knew about his existence until TFF

Spock and Sybok were raised together as brothers till the latter’s banishment — that’s right there in the movie, addressed in dialog (and in a deleted scene featuring a wholly inept performance from Nimoy.)

I guess we have to assume Sybok was away at a summer camp when YESTERYEAR happened, though.

dam lorca values his ship over admirals life tisk tisk

Not his ship. His position. But not just as Captain. I think he values his position as the last best hope for winning the war. I think the only time he was being honest was when he was begging the Admiral not to take his command away.

im liking Tyler, sad to see Lorca as a mad man

This is a fantastic series!

I agree! great drama and character development

I like, so far at least, that I never quite know where the show is going.

Still not totally sold on Frain as Sarek. The combat in the meld was a little silly, but grew on me.

So have they said that Stamets will be the Tardigrade for every jump, or is there something I missed?

Yes, humans can help spore jump. No longer need tardigrade with their work around from previous episode. I am assuming it is Stammets or another human.

Star Fleet just said no to this as they called it unauthorized Eugenics.

no other option this is why we never heard about this is tos, tng etc as the tech is banned

I dont think it was clear if Stamets was still doing it or if others were. On one hand, why put your chief scientists through that? On the other, why risk anyone else?

I think we’re seeing changes to Stamets and that will be part of the issue with the technology. it simply doesnt work long term without killing or messing up the person using it.

Stamets did mention he is getting used to the needles in engineering to Lorca, Michael

@Jack — I don’t care for Frain at all. And the fighting, and the Burnam references to “going back in” all made me hunk of the Matrix. That’s really not a great association with Trek in this manner. Now Maybe, just maybe it will help open Trek up to some new viewers who can better identify with that kind of association, especially when we get into Vulcan mysticism, but it takes me right out of it. Far too derivative.

Waiting for the Orville fans who will overlook how amazing this episode was in terms of character and whine about a holodek being against canon.

Ya, I dont care about the canon stuff or violations or what not. I just try to enjoy an awesome star trek series in 2017.

Apparently the Vulcan sky being blue is a deal breaker for some people. Loved the Vulcan ship, design influenced by the ships from Enterprise. Good callback.

It seemed to be both blue and orange. Like a mix.

I don’t care color it was.

I understand what you’re saying but why the personal attacks? Just enjoy the show.

No personal attacks made here, not sure what you’re referring to.

Someone posted that T’Pol had a line about the sky being different colours.

Some people don’t have a life.

I saw one person on the TrekBBS claiming that fans of Discovery are not real fans. It was sad to see.

real fans? anyone that enjoys a star trek show is a true fan. I really cant believe how hateful and narrow minded some people are. Has Star Trek taught them nothing? smh

As a TOS freak I will say one thing. This show is awesome. Yes some of us can love TOS and Discovery. Looking forward to many more seasons of Trek.

Dude, every time you post, I can’t help but think there’s a warm wind blowing in from Minicoy. You decry all the people who express their dislike for DSC, yet you do the same for Orville. It is highly illogical. As you told a poster earlier that it was time to move on, it may be well for you to follow your own advice. DSC will survive just fine without you charging to defend it’s honor every time someone says something negative about it.

The difference is that Discovery is intelligent, thought provoking television that also handles spectacle very well.

Orville is…. not. Orville is universally derided as being basic, immature and a rip off of old school Star Trek.

Universally derided? UNIVERSALLY DERIDED ?! Are you confusing THE ORVILLE with THE STARLOST or LOST IN SPACE tv show or WING COMMANDER the movie?

You undercut first part of your argument with the second part.

Well, Orville is down to barely 2 million viewers. Which would be okay on Cable I guess. But its less than half its lead-in.

I was willing to bet Orville would get a second season to try and find its footing but Im not so sure now. They might do it because it’s Seth and try to retool it. Depending on the cost, perhaps they can move it to a cable station.

Yes this is true, the hypocrisy of people whining that Discovery gets too much hate but then attack Orville. I’m only speaking in general here but it basically shows what these forums ALWAYS shows, you get offended when its something you like but then have no problem insulting something you hate with the same amount of vile you claimed someone else did. Its a constant circle here on these boards and which Trek product one person likes more (although Orville is not Trek in this case).

And for the record I like both Discovery and Orville. And I’m fine with people who don’t like either but you can’t have it both ways. Just respect what others like while also giving people the right to be critical of what you like.

Yeah, I didnt think of Orville fans whining because Orville is irrelevant (are there really Orville fans? lol). I thought they let the Holodeck look at least a little more dated than the TNG version. The idea of it as a battle simulation makes sense whereas what TNG shows us was, the tech is so pervasive, you can now use it for fun, games, sex etc.

My biggest issue with the show is their dabbling into things that can end up being TOO hokey as a plot device, like holograms. But IF, they dont use the holodeck as a contrived plot device, Im fine with it.

As an extrapolation of todays virtual reality technology, it makes sense.

I’ll have to watch the scene again, but did they show the characters interacting with the setting other than to aim and fire while avoiding being hit themselves? If not, there’s nothing about a holographic training simulation that’s inconsistent with the show’s technology.

I don’t know if it was the stream or bad editing but the beginning of the ep seemed to have some bad cuts.

I am mad that Lorca is damaged and flawed. Lorca was fantastic captain until the past 2 episodes. I mean how can you not try to save your friend and Admiral! This is a tragic hero I guess but cmon, Lorca is better than this.

He listened to her parting words. He is living by them and doesn’t want his actions to spill the end of Discovery and his one chance of redemption in his own eyes.

That is one potential interpretation and it’s the one I’m running with right now. However, given that, thus far, the producers seemed to’ve enjoyed teasing that Lorca may be something closer to an antihero than what they view as traditional Starfleet material, what I fear is that, in the end, they won’t be able to resist pushing him into full-on villainous territory…all to crown Burnham at the end of her redemption arc with a conveniently empty captain’s seat.

Alright, so perhaps that’s a bit too cynical, but…

I think a lot of people are painting Lorca with a limited palette. Why restrict him to just hero or villain? What I see is a guy that is likely fundamentally good, but due to the circumstances in his life, he’s making bad decisions and needs help. It does seem that he may be intentionally keeping the Discovery from rescuing the admiral now, but I’m sure he still cares about her and is probably deeply conflicted. His accomplishments have built up a character in his mind that is stronger than he really is. And his accomplishments fall apart if he’s not captain of a starship. This isn’t so much a decision to hurt his friend as it is a desperate survival tactic to preserve his ego and his sanity. I don’t see him in a hurry to save the admiral if she would expose his weakness, but I also don’t see that being born out of malice.

He could fail all the way to Adirality.


I agree. Im not seeing Lorca as bad. The shot of him holding the phaser, to me, was follow up to his having the phaser in bed. He’s STILL on edge despite what the Admiral said.

Im not sure he proposed she go to the Klingons because he KNEW it was a trap. Perhaps more so he thought it might be or he figured if successful, she’d lighten up.

I think the only truth he told was the moment he felt his command slipping away – that he’s more damaged than he’s let on. And I love that aspect to him. Here is a war time Captain who by all rights should be a mess, and he’s holding it together, barely, because he feels he’s the last best hope to win the war.

The idea he was assigned the Discovery in the first place is interesting. Probably his relationship with Cornwell helped. But its the dichotomy of Starfleet – he earned the command BECAUSE of his experiences with the war and is at risk of losing it for the same experiences. But knowing its the last ship with the Spore Drive now informs Starfleet’s position – there is no Back Up plan if Lorca is too nuts.

Michael will end up captain of the Discovery as told by Georigios parting hologram message. That Michael would be a captain by now and the telescope to “discover” the universe and alp its beauties. Lorca will end up sacfricing himself for the crew contrasting to his last command, the crew will survive and he will make the ultimate sacrifice. Lorca will end up redeeming himself thru self sacrifice. Saru will be science officer and Tilly 1st officer with Voq and Tyler being a turn coat and helping star fleet in the end and being hunted as the albino. They will shut down spore drive with effects to Stamets and go back to just warp and classify all spore tech as above top secret and banned technology for side effects to the galatic highway and navigator. War with Klingons would last a few decades until the undiscovered country.

I immediately knew that he wanted to get rid of her as he proposed to take Sarek’s place. He knew she would get into a trap.
At the end of the episode we saw a mirror of him – AGAIN like the previous episode ended. Another hint at the mirror universe?
He also said he had choosen his pain – a reference to Kirk in ST V who said he needed his pain?

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt about not mounting a rescue mission … until I saw that phaser hanging out of his pajamas.

Yes, Lorca is flawed and damaged. He is also, for me, the most interesting character on this show and I will be curious to see if he manages to redeem himself (maybe with a final act of sacrifice) or completes his fall down the rabbit hole. After the politically perfect captains of the past its refreshing to see someone coping with real human flaws and frailties.

I consistently get a “garth of izar” feel from Lorca.

Its a great twist. The Admiral was there giving him crap over mounting an unauthorized mission to save Sarek. She used it as pre-tense to examine his fitness for command.

So Lorca is using her words against her. And using the bit of insight she provided – that the Discovery is too important to risk on missions to rescue one person. He knows Starfleet Command feels the same way and thus, wont send him on a rescue mission. And thus, his command is secure.

very true on all points, its deep character development. I am hoping Lorca can be healed through time. I love the character and actor so far and I know nobody is perfect every character has a flaw so far which is great.

History is full of brilliant but flawed military leaders, Andrew Jackson, Custer, Patton, etc. I think it’s really interesting, and believable, to see someone like Lorca in the captain’s chair. How he ends up being remembered is yet to be seen.

Spoiler alert. What’s with the Klingon’s senseless non combative killing???

They wanted cloaking technology and power to help capture Sarek but since Sarek was sick, human Admiral will do.

You seem to have a different view of Klingons than has been shown. Sure there’s all that talk of honor, but look at Kruge… he took hostages and killed unarmed people. And he didn’t even do it himself. All so he could have power. Then there was Klaa who would have destroyed a whole Starfleet ship as a trophy kill while simultaneously upsetting the peace process between the Federation and Klingon Empire. At least some Klingons will kill to get what they want, and they’ll use whatever advantage they can get to meet their objectives, even if it means playing dirty. I mean, Chang attacked through a cloak…

Physical appearance aside, the Klingons in Discovery are every bit as “honorable” as past Klingon villains from the show. Name me a Trek series and I’ll name you a treacherous Klingon who only gave lip service to honor, then went behind everyone’s back or went back on his word. Kol and his ilk are no better or worse than Duras, Gowron or Korath (to name but three).

First Thoughts – Just saw this and each episode gets better and better. It starts out by building up more on the Tilly and Burnham relationship, up to the point where Tilly calls Burnham her ‘mentor’ which I thought was a good way to show what their relationship has become. We get a brief nod to the Constitution Class while Tilly and Burnham are running , a nice nod. What I found most interesting is that each character showed something very different about themselves. With Lorca we found that he was once a respected Starfleet captain who has gone on a path where the ends justify the means (plus what were those burn marks on his back, far too geometric to be random wounds). We saw that Sarek was a more conflicted and duplicitous character than before. This conflict between what he expects from Burnham and what he expects from the Vulcan civilization itself (their refusal to have two non-full Vulcans in the Expeditionary Service) is reflected nicely in Sarek’s remoteness from Burnham. He could not admit that the Vulcan civilization at some level failed him.

I have to admit I was wondering if Lorca let Admiral Cornwall into the Klingon negotiations on purpose, to get rid of her negative appraisal of his psychological profile.

I had a bad feeling as the admiral was boarding the shuttlecraft to see the Klingons. As Kirk said before they are not to be trusted, those bastards killed my son. Lorca was hoping something bad happened as his command was in jeopardy when the Admiral returned and now that she is a pow no way in hell will Lorca help her. Lorca is dark and is not fit for command, Lorcan can relate to Michael as both want redemption.

I think Lorca means what he says, if ordered, they will go save her. But it adds to his internal struggle – her being abducted serves his purposes. And yet, it goes against the whole point of his mission – to win the war.

In many ways, we’re getting a deeper look into the character plot of The Undiscovered Country where you have people so used to fighting a war and so committed to winning as their personal truth, that you have to wonder if they really want it to end.

Lorca’s relationship with the Admiral was good too. Watching it with Isaacs’s remarks about Kirk in mind, its a more malicious spin on Kirk’s personality towards women. Lorca seduced the Admiral to try and keep her on his side. The Admiral went along with it because she was trying to examine, more intimately, his fitness for command.

The admiral came over for a booty call, they were friends and slept together before I think. The alcohol helped her lose her inhibitions also. The symbols on Lorca’s back is from recent torture or is his prior command?

I was certainly afraid that was going to happen. I kept on thinking, the whole time the admiral was packing up, that he’d go for his phaser and I was hoping the writers weren’t that crazy…

Wish I could enjoy this. All access is f.cking broken for many many people tonight. Please hold on spoilers until most have chance to view.

I suspect that All Access might have committed suicide tonight. Many will cancel this flaky service.

sorry to hear, in Canada they put it on the space channel.

I’m streaming on an XBOX One and no issues tonight.

It took us 90 minutes to watch just half the show. We gave up and went to bed. Maybe they’ll have it fixed by tomorrow evening.

Oh, but you know what worked flawlessly every time? The commercials. >:-)

Thats interesting, because the show comes in great, but the commercial are always a bit shaky.

Worked fine for me. Only had a few hickups during commercials where they didn’t play but the show continued fine. I think the CBSAA has regional issues.

I am also sorry to hear it as I have had no difficulties watching it on my Mac.

Had issues tonight as well so I waited to the early morning to watch it and it has cleared up for me.

Well, that was 45 minutes of unrelenting stupidity. After two really good episodes, we dropped off a cliff into this cesspool of bad writing, bad acting, and oddly bad production values. And next week’s episode is a freaking TIME LOOP?!

I’m sure some of you fanatics will attack me as you attack anyone who doesn’t worship this show, but at least a few of you out there must have enough critical-thinking skills to see how very unintelligent, illogical, and un-Star Trek this episode was. “Logic extremists.” Vulcan suicide bombers (with the dumbest looking bomb/whatever). Sarek being violent, and bad at fighting, in his katra-mind-memory-whatever. The mechanical mind-meld device. The food dispensers that suddenly give cheery ad-slogan descriptions of the food.

Tilly was good. Stamets was awful. Amanda was good. Sarek was awful, as was in the first two episodes. Ash Tyler is so obviously Voq that it’s laughable.

Eps 4 & 5 convinced me to keep subscribing. This episode erased all of that, and the preview of next week doesn’t help. Oh, and the return of Mudd-in-name-only doesn’t help next week’s show.

It’s fine to like or even love this show, but don’t pretend it’s well-written.

Good thing you didn’t decide TNG was mostly awful after only 6 episodes. Would have missed the best television series of all time. Of course the writing is going to be up and down in the first season.

Agreed. Its a TV show, they always can get better (or worse). If people don’t like it now, thats fine, but I wish people stop treating shows like films. They can always course correct and many do if they see the direction they are going in not to fans liking although I think its kind of split with Discovery so far.

Is there any board in the world other than this (and MAYBE the TNG subforum on trekbbs) where folks would claim TNG was the best television series of all time? Cool that you like the show, I guess, but best? Really?

Having inconsistent writing out of the gate is not a ‘get out of jail free card’ for SF and/or trek spinoffs, and it would pretty much disqualify it for being best of anything just on the basis of those early turkeys, downfalls that most really great shows usually avoid by not buying and executing the material in the first place.

Wah wah wah.

Thank you for that genius reply. You must be so proud. Now, crawl off with the other unthinking worshippers.

It is ok not to like this show but dont act like your opinion matters, if you like it great if not move on, cheers!

My opinion matters as much as anyone’s opinion. Try again, kid.

keep telling yourself that, sir.

It’s simple fact, kid. Now, try posting something non-stupid if you want another reply. As it is, you’re a troll with nothing of value to contribute, kid.

you forgot to ask us to pay to cross the bridge paul

I wouldn’t expect you to have the smarts to cross your “T”s let alone get across a bridge.

we know your the same person kmart, the act is old, if you can dish it you best accept it

Oh boy, now the mods BETTER get in on this. Anybody trying to say I’m a double is so full of shit that they’ll never starve, because they can just hook up their ass to their mouth and live happily ever after. HALL, kindly explain that I’m who I am (somebody who is NOT watching DISCOVERY, therefore not posting comments on its content), so it is clear to the brain-dead ones that I am unrelated to the poster this entity just accused me of being.


I’m curious why you felt the need to take sides in this brawl (let’s not dignify it by calling it a discussion) when, so far as I know, you aren’t even watching the show.

I’m sure I already answered this someplace in here.

And now you are patronising people with different opinions who are willing to stand up to you.


You are no better than the logical extremists who think they are above all. You put yourself on this mighty chair, if anyone likes this show they are simple minded and comparing it to McDonalds lol are you ok? You are allowed to not like the show but you are not allowed to insult others because they do enjoy it. So Live Long and Prosper! aka f u lol

Well, I had some issues, but overall thought there was some very fine writing indeed in this show. In fact, I thought it was the best-written and best-produced episode since the third, and far-outclassing the last two. You obviously feel very differently, and that’s fine. But please don’t assume that everyone necessarily shares your opinion, or is wrong for not doing so.

How odd that you judge others for “attacking” anyone who doesn’t like Discovery- and yet you are attacking them.

That’s very mature of you. Don’t pretend to better than somebody else.

You seem to be the only one to feel this way, Paul. I actually found the writing quite strong and had great character development.

I’m not the only one, but it wouldn’t matter if I were. Popularity with the masses doesn’t indicate quality. McDonald’s has sold billions of burgers, but that doesn’t mean they’re any good.

Around this site, anyone with a critical comment is attacked instantly by the unthinking hordes who adore anything “Trek”, so plenty of us don’t post around here. You can post “I loved 99.9% of this episode” and the dingbats here will call you a hater (or worse) for that 0.1% complaint.

I decided to post my complaints this time because this episode is the one that made me cancel All Access. The preview of next week didn’t help either. (Time loop! With Harry Mudd-in-name-only!)

I’m glad the show is working for you! I wish it worked for me. :)

I’m guessing for casual Trek viewers it wouldn’t be their cup of tea. But I found the writing very strong in this episode. I love how they’re developing each of the characters giving more depth to them instead of some generic forgetables. But hey, not your cup of tea, there are plenty of generic tv shows on out there for you. I’m guessing that you won’t be commenting on future show treads since you’re going to stop watching.

Wow, what a snide little reply to my friendly comment. I see you’re one of the unthinking hordes, based on the asinine comment you just posted. Stuff your “generic tv shows” comment up your ass where you keep your head.

(See? I was nice until you acted like a dick, and now I’m replying in kind.)

Feel free to drool another reply into your keyboard. Much like this show, I’m done with you. People like you make this site a cesspool.

Wow, what an ego you have Paul. Did it get bruised? You sound a little defensive. All I said was that if you sont like Discovery, there is plenty else out there you can watch. IE… any generic tv show that YOU consider has superior writing. You have quite the attitude and come across as such a dick. I’m so happy you stopped watching so I don’t have to read your dribble on future shows. If you do comment on future shows I’m calling you out as a hypocritical loar.

trek fan 67,
I hope Paul DOES weigh in whenever he feels like it, especially if if ticks you off. Dismissing his dissenting view with that ‘generic tv’ remark is really craptastically subpar, even with you as one of what I guess would be considered the lead lemmings that seem to occupy so much of this board.

Wow, really? His ‘generic TV’ comment really called for that kind of vitriol in response? And you call people ‘lemmings’ for liking a show that you’ve seen, what, one-twelfth of at this point?

Did someone put something in the water around here?

Okay, so I don’t have to go any FURTHER down this thread to reply to everything, let me see if I can get it squared away here.

Yeah, I think these folks were jumping him mainly because his remarks hit home, like latex on allergic skin.

And yeah, lemmings is my default mindset eval for folks who like ALL of anything. There are lesser eps of FIREFLY, they ain’t all perfect, there are probably even a couple of below-excellent episodes of THE WIRE, though I can’t think of them (a good excuse to rewatch again, thanks!) There was some other issue that set me off after the generic tv one, but I’ve addressed that upthread.

Anyways, shouldn’t you be complaining about the color of the Vulcan sky or something? (that is an attempt to be funny, not a snipe. feel free to say it isn’t funny, but don’t make any more of it than that.)

Kmart. ..stop being an ass. You’re a reputed troll here. Crawl back under your rock.


I don’t know who you are, but I’m guessing I must have called you on some bit of stupid thinking in the past.

While it is very true I will flame folks when they deserve it, I’ve never trolled anywhere anytime. The one time I can remember ever being accused of that was by a mod on another board who I had pissed off by calling him on his ignorance of a commonly-known matter, and when he refused to rescind the remark, I left and thus deprived that board of my input. So get your facts straight before you start spouting off.

No, you don’t know me. But I know you. Yes, you flame people here constantly. You troll the discussions and you claim you don’t watch the show. So if you don’t watch the show, you don’t have anything meaningful to add. Therefore, you troll. Goodbye kmart.

ransom, do you READ? I didn’t talk about the show, I talked about the abusive whiney apologists for the show and the way they attack folks. I swear people are learning bad habits by trying to imitate Trump, why don’t you try learning intelligent discourse instead of bully role play?

I’m replying directly to your comment to me dumbass.

Seems to me you’re just talking shit, and I just love how you think you know me, based on my comments, then display clearly that you DON’T by bringing out this troll crap … while others call me a dual, which, so far as I know, is actionable on these boards (if there was actually moderating happening, which doesn’t seem to happen anymore, given by how you can write and say anything here now.)

By repeating the same incorrect assumptions, however, YOU are acting as a troll. So quit acting out over having your viewpoints challenged by the other guy and by getting your panties bunched up over me calling you on YOUR verbal abusiveness. And if you’re going to try to flame people, try putting some effort into the wordplay, so those reading can at least get a laugh from a genuine put-down instead of your desperate and feeble ripostes that read like ‘naah-naah-naah.’

So basically, if I read you correctly, since you don’t watch the show and have nothing intelligent to contribute… you “flame” people that like the show. That is the definition of a troll. Now go away and post on a board to a show you are watching. You have nothing important to say… it’s all irrelevant.

You’re still not reading, you’re putting spin on the words I put down, and I guess also coming up with alt-dictionary definitions too now. I went after people who seem to be jumping some guy’s shit basically only because he makes them want to cry with his honesty. It’s just you-all demonstrating a herd mentality that sucks big-time. This isn’t about the show at all, and I’d have not posted anything at all if I wasn’t repulsed by the behavior of you and your fellow posters to the point where I didn’t care if I got banned for flaming all of you – cuz you deserve it.

You are the one that wrote it… I repeating what you’ve been saying. How is that putting a spin on it? You flame people as per your own admission. Thus, you are trolling. Period. Go away. You serve no purpose here since you don’t watch the show.

Again, Kmart, you dont watch the show. So why are you here doing drive by attacks on people? Go away!

Quit attacking folks who are different-minded than you who can express their dissenting opinions clearly and maybe I’ll do just that. Meanwhile ….

No one is attacking different opinions. You ARE attacking people. Worse, you’re dropping into discussions forums for a show you dont watch and getting mad at people who like the show. Very transparent, my friend.

I compare Discovery To Wendys And In and Out burgers , They may not be as big as McDonalds, but it is quality food.

That’s fine. Sorry the series didn’t work out for you. Since you’ve now cancelled CBSAA presumably you won’t be commenting on future episodes, which may or may not be unfortunate as there’s all kinds of criticism, good and bad. In any case, go in peace. Is there anything else needs saying?

Right there with you Trekfan!.
You are not alone in your opinion.

I look forward to every episode and not ashamed to say so!

@Trek fan 67 — I actually had a lot of issues with this one. Maybe I wasn’t as willing to give it as big a pass as I have the previous episodes, because the streaming issues with CBSAA frustrated me and put me in the wrong frame of mind for viewing. However, there was a lot of good and bad in this one in my takeaway. This is the first time I’ve felt that way. Now maybe it will all be explained over the course of the series … but I won’t forget where this one left me looking for resolution. Also, I’m really not a fan of the Matrix-like derivative manifestations of mental struggles depicted as physical martial arts. Been there done that. They really need to try harder than that., and give us something original and worthy of Trek. The less of that we see the better.

Stamets seemed out of character, although he might just be going lampy after becoming the new tardigrade. I’ll keep an eye on him for that.

Actually liked the concept of logic extremists. Just feel that whole idea could have been explored over an episode to flesh it out better. Instead we got a few sentences.

I love the show so far, but yeah, can’t argue with you about this one. It kinda stunk.

You never know, maybe the Mirror Stamets has crossed over.

I think that Lorca made a comment on Stamet’s sudden change of mood, we’ll revisit it.

Unless of course you happen to be someone who thinks it is well written.

If you consider this show well written, you really need to expand your literary experiences.

Maybe you could enlighten us with a list of your recent readings… :-)

Or maybe you folks could get lives and stop whining because a stranger on the internet said mean things about a show you had nothing to do with making. Get over yourselves. You love the show. Good for you! You think it’s well written. Whoopty do!

I can’t wait for the day a bunch of you come around to complaining about the show. The same happened with Into Darkness: A bunch of us criticized it while the masses here loved it, but over time the opinion that it sucked has become common.

Same will happen here unless DSC makes a u-turn in the next 9 episodes.

Now, stop whining at me. Go do something useful. Read one of those books you claim to have. Maybe one with words instead of just pictures.

All hail paul the one above all, the one who loves to talk trash and insult others on a forum and cant take the heat but can dish it. Look at me im important and resort to name calling when losing a fight online, get over yourself Paul.

Don’t really need your encouragement to read books, thanks. As to whining, you spew all kinds of really nasty venom at those who even mildly disagree with your assessment of a damned TV space opera, then whine that you’re being persecuted when anyone calls you on it. You’re like a nerd Donald Trump.

No, I respond to attacks on me and my opinion in kind. I’m not trying to forced anyone to my viewpoint, but I’m damned well not going to let assholes around here silence my criticisms.

None of my comments attacked anyone before they attacked me. So, back off, buddy.

Michael, he ain’t talking to you. He’s talking to the nutbags who probably can’t spell global warming and only wonder about whether the weather will make for a good future trek episode. (Going there about Trump is really low, like dropping nukes to have enough to read by, you should save that one up for where it might be useful or truthful.)

Paul, I’m still waiting your excellent reading recommendations. Perhaps the last book you read, if you still remember the title from high school…

Weak try, kid. But hey, I replied to finally, so you get a little attention to soothe your trollish heart.

How DARE you think you are better than other people just because you don’t like a television show. You are not better than myself or anybody else who likes Discovery. How dare you. The fact that you wilfully attack anybody that disagrees with you shows the kind of horrid person that you are.

How dare? How dare? Um, skippy, I didn’t say I’m better than anyone. Try again when you develop reading-comprehension skills.

No, I haven’t attacked anybody who disagrees with me. I replied to Trek Fan 67 politely until he became an ass. I respond to attacks with attacks. I’m no longer going to try to be polite to people like you and the others who mindlessly adore Star Trek and attack everyone who DARES to criticize it.

Crawl away, little troll.

Don’t ever think you can patronise me. I don’t stand for it and I will call you out on it. Don’t ever do it again. Seriously.

You have attacked EVERYBODY who has disagreed with you. You have been extremely rude and belligerent. You have been insulting. You have dismissed anybody who likes the series. You are extremely offensive and you, sir, are the troll- not I. And I will call you out for being one.

If you cannot air your grievances without antagonising people and talking down to people then you have no place on this forum.

I can respect that you do not like this new series. What I cannot respect is your disgusting and offensive attitudes to anybody who disagrees with you. It is pathetic.

How was I being an ass? Because I said you might like something more generic? Oh yeah… I was being such an ass for that!


I’m sure that your dismissal of next weeks concept is based on both your reluctance to appreciate those stinker episodes “The Year of Hell” “Children of Time” and the worst offender “Cause and Effect”

It’s obvious your intentions here are to put yourself above us mere mortals by labelling yourself as a purist but really your exchanges and churlish attempts at put downs have as much depth as the script for The Final Frontier.

Why don’t you just row row row your boat gently off our screens, you Trek-fan in name only.

what do you recommend us lower life forms to read the all and mighty paul? please enlignten us with your wisdom lol

Why should he bother when you’re only going to eschew anything he offers up? Geez, you guys are such sycophants when it comes trek.

All talk, paul says we should expand our reading experiences yet he doesnt recommend anything. Paul just uses ad hominem attacks and posts under different names to try to feel better about himself. Someone who is insecure and bullied as a child.

I’ve never posted under a different name, but keep swinging, slugger! Eventually you’ll post something other than stupidity. Now, wipe the drool off your keyboard.

If the admins are going to let you folks attack and harass everyone like me around here, I’m taking the gloves off and treating you like the mindless trolls you are.

Keep in mind, in this thread you have a couple of very angry negative people who hate the show. One claims he doesnt even watch it (which makes his effort to post here about it somewhat perplexing) and the other makes irrational statements without any relevant support.

In other words, they are here for attention, not to discuss Star Trek. That happens, sometimes, when people have nothing of value in their real life. Sad.

How can you know this for a fact when you don’t watch the show? I sure don’t share your growing affection for The Orville, but I do its creators the courtesy of at least watching it and being as honest as I can about my subjective dislike (and occasional approval) of what I see. And contrary to your assertion I think there’s plenty of measured commentary–pro, con, and very mixed–about Discovery on these forums, too.

I’m not addressing THE SHOW, Michael, I’m addressing the content and attitude evinced by a few of the posters in attacking somebody who is clearly disappointed by the show and indicated why he felt that way.

The takeaway I had (your mileage may vary) was that these folks think his mentioning the art of reading must have been elitist on his part and put them on the defensive, which makes them seem pretty pretty pretty prickly when it comes to their own self-esteem. Insecure people with those kinds of issues probably shouldn’t throw stones while living in glass houses (not until they’ve upgraded to transparent aluminum anyway, and they’d better be on the lookout for bounceback if they have.)

I try to read as often as I can.
I have quite a library at home.

dont bother with paul he thinks anyone is stupid if they do not agree with him. Just a ego driven troll with expensive books and wine

What literary experiences would you recommend?

Wow. Hate to say it but that was pretty bad. First real total dud so far, in my opinion. Nothing clicked correctly. Honestly, I’d rather have seen an episode about Vulcan logic extremists. It’s an interesting concept. Ugh. Loving the series so far, but that was lousy from top to bottom.

I think they crammed to much into one ep. It seemed not only did they have an A and B plot but they had a C and D plot as well. 4 different things going on in the same ep. I also think they had 2 bad cuts at the start our that could have been CBS AA acting up on me.

I think they can salvage some things from this ep.

Agreed. Too choppy and focused on the wrong story elements. Some good ideas, some good concepts, just a failure in execution.

There was a lot going on, but I think that they handled it well.

Definitely a lot going on. And when the season is over, I think the real joy is going to be in watching it again from the start. Its really playing like a 15 episode movie than 15 distinct episodes.

Be careful, Blackmocco! The simple-minded sycophants are out in force, attacking anyone who doesn’t worship at the teat of everything Trek. Daring to say this was less than brilliant makes you a hater, don’t you know? ;)

Not a hater, by any stretch. The show rocks. This episode was just weak. That’s okay. Wouldn’t be Trek without the odd dud or two.

Well Paul you’re comments make you and obnoxious jerk. Trying to preemptively bully different opinions is transparently cowardly. Good going!

TUP – As usual, your comments have nothing of value to add to the conversation. Par for the course with you.

@PaulB – you’re projecting again. To suggest my comments add nothing is preposterous. Grow up and try to contribute something rational rather then being negative and attacking everyone all the time. Why are you so angry? lol

Jesus, project much? Who’s been attackkng anyone for anything here tonight besides you and Kevin Martin?

Bull. Everytime anyone says something less than worshipful around here, the usual suspects bark and growl nonstop at us. Spare me your histrionic reaction. Don’t pretend that dissenting opinions are respected by the people who dwell on this board.

At 45 minutes per episode I think it’s a strain to have an effective “A” and “B” story and while I liked the episode overall it felt rushed. Really surprised that, since it is a streaming show, they don’t give an episode a few extra minutes to help it flow better as I think it would have helped this one especially.

@TonyD — good point. I suspect part of that is to make broadcast windows for Canada TV network broadcasts — the only place in the world I believe it isn’t being streamed. Also, I’m sure Moonves isn’t willing to give up old school syndication thinking. I’m sure he’s thinking down he road when this series is a few season in and he starts offering syndication packages to TV broadcasters. It has to fit within that 1 hour programming block.

Thats not true because an episode before this one was at 51 minutes. It was simply shorter just because.

I agree. I would have gladly given up some corridor-run time to get more detail on these “logical extremists” who take Sarek’s logic seriously but not his pacifism.

@Blackmocco — didn’t ENT intorduce us to Vulcan extremists, and that kind of biological bomb technology? Unfortunately it’s ENT that gave us that bit of unfortunate canon, along with so many other bits … But can’t really agree — there was a lot of good mixed in with that bad, it’s just that the bad really stuck out in this one … Agree it felt like too many story editors got their hands on this one.

There’s some good stuff in there that moves the plot along for sure. Just didn’t really care for how it was presented. Or written. The price you pay with a shorter season and with episodic TV (GoT was particularly guilty of this recently) is that sometimes you feel like the characters are getting pushed too quickly to advance the plot. It’s less the characters moving the story forward with their actions, more pushing the characters around like gamepieces to meet a story point. It can wrench you out of the show a bit. I mean, I get it, with less episodes, there’s less time to get to the big story beats. For example, I didn’t buy Lorca and the Admiral sleeping together as it was presented in this episode because it felt too rushed. It’s the very same scene she’s questioning his ability to captain the ship and then she’s sleeping with him! This was something that could have used a little more time and padding to get to the same place. I only know they have a history because two characters keep telling me “we have a history” but it would have been more satisfying to actually show us that rather than through talking heads. To further that point, I don’t really know anything about the admiral, therefore I don’t really care about her that much yet but now she’s been captured by Klingons and the danger I should feel for her – and about Lorca’s reluctance to save her to keep his ship – isn’t there.

My other biggest worry with the show taking Sarek and Burnham and giving them a history wasn’t so much any canon violations, more the reasoning behind doing it. Is there a reason to do this other than the shout-out to TOS? Based on this, I’d say based on last night’s, maybe none at all. It feels like it was an idea in the writers’ room and when it came to fleshing that idea out, no-one knew what to do with it. If there’s a conflict between how she was raised on Vulcan vs her human nature within Burnham, the show hasn’t done a good job of presenting it clearly or doing anything interesting with it. They could have dumped the Vulcan connection and still had the same character. Bit disappointed with all that.

And yeah, it sounds like I’m bitching, bitching, bitching. I’m having a great time with the show so one dud out of six isn’t bad going. This is Trek, after all. There’s always going to be a few duds in there…

@Blackmocco — here’s the thing, as long as you’re having a good time, then for a serialized drama, you can’t really second guess where it’s all headed or why it needs to be set in this era. If the series doesn’t pay off in the end, then you have every right to bitch. In the meantime, it’s a little premature.

Yes but no one is forcing them to use that canon from Enterprise either. Obviously they like the idea of it and why its there.

Wow what a good episode. Possibly the best one yet. The Lorca spin is intriguing.

This episode was amazing! Now i can say im hooked. It was a very trekkie episode. Lorca was great.

If I could just watch the episode without it buffering every 30 seconds I would be happy.

To be fair, I heard All Access had some issues tonight. Which, unfortunately, will happen from time to time. How widespread was it??

I live in Fl and I tried to find it to watch but can not find it

So you didnt read the article you just replied to, the one that tells you how to watch it?

Not as good as last week but still really good. There are still silly people here who haven’t figured out it’s not episodic story telling.

Unfortunately a lot of jerks are here trying to bully those they liked it. If you didn’t like
It great. But why does it offend you when others did?

Thank you TUP, this paulb and kmart fellow is upset we like the new show.

try to get at least some of your thoughts straight. I don’t even watch the show, but reading the comments here, most (not all) of what I see is mindless and vitriolic bashing of those who have problems with it. That’s probably business-as-usual to a degree, but when you’re bashing and dismissing somebody who takes the time to put their criticisms down with context and some thought, then that’s just sniping on your part and you deserve to be taking down just as roughly as possible, hopefully facefirst onto cement. I don’t even know who the other poster is, but the way you and at least one other was writing stuff should probably be actionable.

You dont watch the show? Then why are you hear whining about it or posters? Go away then! lol

Now you’re trying to dictate terms to me about how I use my time? I’m not weighing in on the merits of the show, pro or con, so don’t try to use that against me unless I do go that route. As for YOU telling ME where to go … it has been noted and logged. Now STFU, you irritating lower form (see BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS for further clarification.)

Good ONE! You dont even watch the show but are triggered to flip out on a message board. hilarious.

Responding to bullying is hilarious, huh? I guess it is better to join in on the side of the bullies, because the majority is always right (on the right?)

so tired of this stuff

It’s actually been this way for a very long time. There’s a contingent of regulars on here who can’t help but bully post should someone not like everything about the show, or heaven forbid, should prefer Orville instead. It would be nice if those posts lead to civil discussions about what they don’t like and what could have been improved/what their expectations are. Reminds me of the days on the Trek AOL message boards when Ron Moore had a Q&A thread. Someone asked him why he chose the date he did for First Contact with the Vulcans. The amount of people who bashed him because he had used the birthdate of one of his children was appaling.

@Wesley – its far more prevalient the other way. The majority of people fall between “moderately liking aspects of the show” to “loving the show”. In all cases, they provide reasonable pros and cons. And most of enjoy discussing our differing opinions.

Its the ear-covering “I hate it nah nah nah” types that scream and cry when they make blanket or irrational proclamations of hate and people disagree.

Orville has nothing to do with Star Trek. If this site didnt provide coverage to it, we’d never talk about it. But as shallow and goofy as Orville is (with falling ratings showing that its missing with most), the fact some people would irrationally rip into Discovery while liking Orville is just hilarious. I get it, sometimes you want to watch an Adam Sandler comedy and sometimes you want The Shawshank Redemption. But no one is claiming the Sander comedy they saw last week is better than Shawshank. Its okay to like both.

I liked it considerably better than last week’s, personally. But that’s what makes it a universe. 😊

We’re back to some consistency with Burnham, which is lovely. The revelation about her backstory with Sarek works, and while it’s hard to top what’s come before with Sarek and Spock’s dynamic, I don’t mind getting a little more insight into the man if it’s handled delicately. For all the time he’s been onscreen, we never did explore his pioneering nature and affection for humans.
With the way he’s being played, it’s going to be very hard to stomach the prevailing theory about Tyler if it bears fruit, I must say. The continued pushing of his being damaged absolving Lorca of a bit of his shadiness might work out, but he’s still quite an extreme captain to have to accept. Didn’t love his first scene with the admiral at first as it dipped into bad exposition, but things improved.
Overall, this felt in tune with Star Trek, even with suicidal Vulcans (I suppose we’re not so far out from Enterprise, and DS9 did give us a Vulcan serial killer). It’s got decent character work, a bit of levity and some actual humanity to it!

Very much agree with your assessment, pro and con.

I kind of liked the way Tyler was handled here. On the one hand he ends up being incredibly helpful and pretty much solves Burnham’s mind meld dilemma for her. On the other hand his lines about duality and the way he tears into his food feed right into the whole sleeper Klingon theory. Overall he’s a likeable character; it will be sad to see him go south (if that’s what happens) but I’m still betting that if he is a Klingon his experiences with the crew will ultimately inform his final actions.

I like Tyler. Which I guess the point – make him likeable so we are torn when the reveal happens. Hopefully the real Ash Tyler is still out there.

@TonyD — ha, I did notice how he ripped into his food, but I was still trying to watch that on my Apple TV with the stuttering and buffering, so it kind of escaped me, other than thinking it was pretty odd …

“On the other hand his lines about duality and the way he tears into his food feed right into the whole sleeper Klingon theory.”

It was handled superb! The lines about him fighting like a Klingon or the final scenes where he calls Burnham’s behaviour “just being human” are awesome, especially since we more or less know he’s Voq at this point.

He also reminds me a lot of Arne Darwin. Maybe that’s why they chose an actor with a Middle-Eastern appearance…

@Ian — but what of Sybok? I wonder if they’re just going to ignore him?

I’m happy I found this site, and will be commenting a lot in the future, especially seeing how cool most of you are!

Great episode, and tbh I find i usually scroll to the bottom of the screen and bend up wishing that these episodes ran longer than just the 45 minutes or so.

Hopefully they have a 90 minute season finally when we finally get to that point. I’m hooked on this Trek and Sunday’s can’t come soon enough. I eat them up just like the dates on a calendar with Neevok and Tuvix.

I actually really liked the reveal that Sarek had to choose between Michael and Spock. Having that decision in the background behind Spock’s choice to enter Starfleet really adds a lot of dimension and emotional weight to the falling out between Sarek and Spock. I’m also starting to accept Michael as a member of Sarek’s family more, and I can understand why they might not talk about her openly in the future. All families will have drama, interpersonal conflicts, and complicated dynamics… and some certainly have the outcast members that aren’t spoken about. Being that she has a part in Spock and Sarek’s complicated emotional dynamics, as well as that family’s standing in Vulcan society, it’s becoming less and less surprising that she hadn’t been mentioned before.

Digging into Burnhams relationship withSarek and the background To Sardis decision and the link to Spock is why I liked the episode so much.

It was sort of jaw dropping in a great way. Because it DOES let us go back and appreciate the Sarek/Spock dynamic even more and helps to explain why Sarek was so very angry and disappointed with Spock.

The big plot hole in Sarek over the years was how a guy could be so “in to” humans and yet so angry his son went to Star Fleet. It really didnt make a lot of sense. It does now.

And thats a major point of Trek lore…so they had to be very careful to serve it well. And they did.

Wonderful storytelling in making the Sarek and Spock dynamic more interesting and complex.

“It was sort of jaw dropping in a great way. Because it DOES let us go back and appreciate the Sarek/Spock dynamic even more and helps to explain why Sarek was so very angry and disappointed with Spock.”

I totally agree. For the first time it actually made sense that they made her Spock’s adoptive sister. Because we actually never got any details for Sarek’s rejection of Starfleet…

More accurately, Spocks “foster” sister. She’s not related, as Sarek pointed out. And thats important. Michael calling him father is part of that. They arent related but have a father/daughter relationship.

The discussion of Spock didnt seem gratuitous at all. It was relatively small in the episode but enormous in the franchise lore.

Like you said, it really made sense as to why Michael is “related” to Sarek’s family in this series and, for me, connected us to the soul of the franchise in an organic and satisfying way.

The thing that made all other Treks boring is that no character ever did something stupid simply because it was dramatic. But that is what this show is bent on doing in such an overt manner none of these characters could ever hold their professional jobs in any previous iteration of this franchise.

I am absolutely unsure of why criticism of an episode like this should be subtle when the structure of then narrative was simply one dumb shock after another except for one priceless moment of backstory. In other words, all window dressing to the one solid point this script was trying to sell us.

But the result made this particular audience member feel like I was watching child actors performing one cliche ridden hyperventilation after another. They are not at war, not exploring, merely appearing in mandated fan service mashed ono a lame NCIS/Scandal hybrid in a way that inverts the purpose of the universe.

Tyler pops on board and is Security CHIEF then goes on an away mission? Psychologist Admiral bones dangerous subordinate making her more dangerous and stupid than he is? Only a stupid man would write a woman as stupid as that. And now Sarek is the one who is ashamed? Are they asking us to root for Mudd next week? I will, I promise.

I have been consistently optimistic about this show. But if the last episode and this one are indications of the direction of the rest of this half season, why would anyone care? Plus the f’d up streaming? Half this episode played like a 30 year old VHS tape I played 400 times. Trust me, I tested out Blue Bloods tonight and it streamed in the same pathetic quality. I am paying full price so yes I am complaining.

My own dark Theory about this show is there if I choose to beleive it: DSC is Moonves mandated FU to the idea of even a healthy inversion of ST values.

Maybe I’ll like it later but this is ABC gum, no taste left.

Fair enough that you’ve got some issues with the show. It’s not a perfect show by any means (I do think this week’s episode was a little too self contained, personally) but I’m curious- I don’t see any parralells with NCIS (I’ve never seen Scandal so I can’t comment). Can you enlighten me on how this is similar? I am genuinely curious and not trolling.

@AdAstraPerAspera – NCIS is CBS’s longest running show, and Scandal is a current hit — political intrigue on steroids – no contemplation – lots of backstagging. I’d just suggest taking a look at them for five minutes to see what I am talking about in terms of set up of dramatic elements and how they play out. Yes, Star Trek needed to be modernized, and I am all in favor of serialization. So that is not what I am talking about.

I’m talking about taking this show on it’s own terms. DSC was supposedly about a “war.” Instead, this show is running on the power of the backstory of every character influencing a scene, not the problem in front of them. It’s infuriating. There literally is no plot in this episode. No attempt to ‘figure anything out.’ OH, we can hook her up to this thingamajidggy and then she can relive her past and contact him YAY. Nothing that indicates his physical danger at all. So the pace of every scene ending with a bang. And it’s so fast we don’t even get to see the physical beam out. And I say this all despite the fact that I do like, admire, and support the Michael/Sarek relationship itself.

What someeone else had said last week: Everything is some damn 911 call: Dilithium planet, save Lorca, Save Sarek, and now Save the Psychologist who Banged Me.

I just want to reiterate, there is no way a military psychologist would sleep with her patient. Took me way out of the room. Her career would be in ruins. That’s why I am saying, this is like, “Scandal.” — every moment some villianous rise.

it happened in the Departed also with Leo DiCaprio and his therapist

they were friends and slept together in the past

He’s not her patient, is he? She is his boss, though.

Well, that’s your take. I understand where you’re coming from, but at the very least you’re holding DSC to a standard you can’t possibly be applying to any of the other series if you enjoyed them at all (e.g. the slapdash approach to science where your first inspired idea is always the correct one and no blind alleys need ever be followed, or Lorca’s impulsive decision to not only make a just-rescued stranger a member of his crew but Security Chief as well). These tropes are just what Trek does. You take them at face value, or not. Sleeping with a subordinate who may be too disturbed to function in a critical job is certainly a bad idea, but it’s clear that they were lovers in the past and making such impulsive bad calls is just what real people do.

No, the show wasn’t perfect by any means. I’d have gladly dropped some corridor-jogging for an explanation as to why these Vulcans were comfortable with embracing Surak’s logic but not his pacifism, or why Vulcan society in general seems to be drawing inward in this period. The martial arts stuff came off a little silly. On the other hand I give this show a lot of credit for actually going a long ways towards justifying why Sarek would disown his only son for joining Starfleet while helping his foster daughter do the same thing. The “Sophie’s Choice” at the heart of this show, and the guilt in the aftermath, was what made it work for me, and the confirmation of what a damaged piece of goods Lorca really is was icing on the cake. I’m really looking forward to seeing where they go next with this show, and that’s something I frankly haven’t felt for several weeks now.

@TIAC — ah, I think you out your finger on it for me. This episode didn’t go anywhere. It was strictly a pause in the action to show character development. Serialized series do this all the time, and it bugs me there too, but the difference usually is that I can binge watch those, and if I’m feeling dissatisfied with it, I can just watch the next one, which usually picks up the action narrative. Here I have to wait. The good news is I’m hooked, and craving a more fulfilling resolution than I got this week …

I can live with and even enjoy the the action if it’s well done, but I’ll take interesting character development any day. YMMV, of course.

I desagree. The actors were fantastic. Plenty of backstory. The admiral and Lorca sleeping together shows their history. It may be star trek but it is human. One thing that the Berman era forgot. Everybody was so god damn perfect. Humans will stay human even if society has changed. When Lorca begged not to loose his ship got to me. His vulnerability and also showed depth to his character. I thought he was going to blow up her shuttle. I was on the edge if my seat. Even more now not knowing what his he going to do. Let her die or save her. The storytelling is getting better and better. I found it to be the most trek episode yet.

But I agree to disagree.

Imagine being critical of a star trek episode where the Captain sleeps with someone. In STAR TREK! lol

Again, people seemed shocked by the story-telling method of this show. The sooner people accept that this isnt episodic bottle shows where 2/3 of the season nothing happens, the sooner they will enjoy the quicker pace and larger scope.

In ST:TMP, Kirk reinstated Spock’s first officer and science officer credentials on the spot despite not having seen him in almost 3 years. He did it because he was desperate; it’s no different with Lorca. He’s desperate to have capable crewmembers around him. That’s why he conscripted Burnham and now Tyler.

Cornwell and Lorca have a long history together; that was pretty clearly spelled out in their dialog. In that context the scene did not feel out of place. It also is hardly the first time Starfleet officers have engaged in hanky panky (Picard got emotionally involved with one of his crewmembers in an episode of TNG for example).

The Sarek subplot is somewhat problematic for me; I really can’t map this Sarek to the Mark Lenard version as their sensibilities seem so different. Maybe Sarek becomes the more distant Vulcan we see in TOS as a result of his interactions with Burnham but for now he seems more connected to the cinematic Sarek from ST09 than the TOS version.

How is he desperate? That makes no sense. He has the best ship in the fleet! He can commission and even kidnap anyone he wants to be part of his crew. Accept Tyler as part of the crew, maybe even someone who has tactical info and learned something, but simply because he can fly and shoot? It’s bad writing. Are we supposed to hold the belief that the Enterprise exists at this same moment, which can basically destroy a planet if it wants to– and that no one is availalbe to Lorca except brilliant scientists? But who was pointing guns at the prisoners? Where is Landry’s second? It’s bad writing and only a set up for soap opera betrayal.

I think you’re putting the cart before the horse. He commissions and “kidnaps” (a stretch, but what the heck) because he is desperate and it’s pretty obvious that his experience on the Buran has affected his judgment.

The first couple of episodes with him made it pretty clear that he is a soldier who has been put in charge of a science vessel tasked with finding alternative solutions to winning the war (thus the spore drive). He clearly doesn’t suffer Stamets; he lost Landry early on; he says, again and again, that he needs people around him who are willing to do what needs to be done to win the war and obviously he doesn’t think the crew he was originally given can do that. That thinking may be flawed but it informs his decision making to this point.

While the Discovery has some interesting tech, I would not qualify it as the best ship in the fleet; it is relatively small (with a crew of 134) and again was a science vessel, not a ship of war. The engagements we’ve seen so far have all been of the drop in, blast away, drop out variety.

As to the Enterprise being out there, yes, the Constitution class ships are out there, but there are only 12 of them and we have no idea of the size or deployment of the Klingon fleet.

@TIAC — maybe. But I would imagine the Enterprise, along with every ship in Starflet is engaged in this war, and every Capatain of every ship wants the best people around, and likely ready to battle fiercely to keep them, and likely facing shortages of good crew in key positions as a result of casualties of the war. This mirrors real life during war times pretty accurately. And let’s remember what Discovery’s mission is — to develop a stealth ship, so the needs of Lora’s for capable tacticians are not necessarily as great as those ships which are on the front line facing a traditional battle where they are really needed.

I thought it was pretty obvious that Lorca was doing things to ingratiate Tyler to himself. This is what charismatic leaders do, especially “cultish” ones.

He’s bonding with Tyler. Lorca has secrets. He doesnt let people inside all those secrets. Landry was an insider. Sure, she probably had an assistant chief security, but if Lorca trusted that person, he’d promote them.

He sees Ash like himself. A wounded person, who has experienced loss, in his personal life and in the war. He has no ties. Lorca easily slips in to Tyler’s life as a parental figure. Tyler shakes off his experience with the Klingons and wants to get back into the fight, he wants to serve.

Lorca is building him up. The scene where Ash lies about killing more Klingons than Lorca is telling. It could be lorca who under-sold own hits. Who knows. Making him pilot of a critical mission, again, he’s building Ash up. Making him chief is the same thing. Its giving him something that plays to Tyler’s role as a Starfleet Officer and gives him “secrets” to keep.

Its pretty good storytelling really.

He did the same thing with Michael. Compartmentalized her at first, gave her a seemingly mundane task designed to pique her curiosity, let her in on a “secret”, have her a more critical assignment, did her a “favour” of rescuing Sarek.

And now, both Ash and Michael have the same sense of duty and loyalty to him.

There is some evidence to suggest Saru isnt an “insider”. Lorca has scientists, cadets and damaged people around. People he can control, people he thinks will do dark tasks when needed (Stamets he had to keep for his science), people that will follow orders. But people that wont question him or the mission.

Its brilliant writing when you look at the big picture. Not just one scene or one episode.

In regards to Staments he did seem concerned he was acting odd after his experiences with the spore drive. So he does value his people he just doesn’t always show it.

Lorca said to Michael, I didnt do it for Sarek, I did it for you. Lorca didnt want Michael to suffer or get hurt in any way. Lorca understood there is a link between Sarek and Michael via the mind link. If Sarek is in pain Michael is in pain and vice versa. Lorca decided at that point to rescue Michael by saving Sarek. Lorca needs Michael.

Just to follow up on this; the Vulcans in this episode were all very reminiscent of the way they were portrayed in ST09, with their arrogant attitudes towards humans.

@TonyD — did you watch ENTERPRISE? I think ST09 came by that honestly …

I did watch Enterprise (though I never followed it particularly closely). I thought the Vulcans in Enterprise were more shifty than outright bigoted; and at the very least by the time the show ended they were on their way to following Sarek’s teachings more closely.

The comments of the Vulcan who was speaking with Sarek in last night’s episode reminded me really strongly of the exchange between Spock and the Vulcan mentors when he chooses Starfleet over the Vulcan Science Academy in ST09. Their dismissive tone of Spock’s human half and the disadvantage his human mother placed on him had the same bigoted, arrogant vibe as the guy who told Sarek only one “almost-Vulcan” could make it in.

@TonyD — well ENT made it clear there were a subset of Vulcans who were not interested in working with Humans, to the extent of terrorism. Taking out the fascist ruler driving that approach doesn’t make his devotees go away. Just a few short years ago most of America thought racism was over. What a difference a day makes …

No they were pretty bigoted too lol. I think both Discovery and ST09 came from the attitudes Vulcans displayed on Enterprise. Difference being of course Enterprise was set a hundred years before either of these so its surprising Vulcans still look down on humans so much but I guess racism is really strong with these green blooded robots.

We tend to view the Vulcans as a whole through the lens of Spock and Sarek, their two most famous (and familiar) representatives. But T’Pau clearly had very little use or respect for humans or outsiders in general, and as for T’Pring, well, in the end Spock could only look at Stonn and say “You’re welcome to her.” I didn’t like the way they were portrayed in ENTERPRISE, and mostly disliked the way they were used on DS9 as well. But portraying them as something other than totally pacifist intellectuals is pretty justifiable if you look at all the “canon” evidence, even if it feels unpalatable at times.

What we learned of Lorca, his affection for Tyler becomes even more interesting. He sees himself in this damaged, tortured POW who represses his damage in favour of his duty to Starfleet and desire to get back into the fight.

Making him security chief makes sense to from what we know (or speculate) about his relationship with the last security chief. He needs someone to share his secrets with, who might see the war the way he does.

I was actually relieved that Lorca didn’t bother trying to rescue Admiral Hotstuff. I thought, fer sure, Lorca was going to blow up her ship or whatnot, so Admiral being offed by the Klings keeps Lorca at 95% evil instead of pushing him up to 100& villain. Also, people who enjoy the Klings talking in Kling-speak with subtitles, please make your voices heard – I appreciate this Kling-speak and it always annoys me when exotic aliens talk English like they’re from Santa Monica. But griping dingdongs are complaining about the subtitles on Discovery and we need to counter their simple-minded guff for potential future seasons.

I dig the Klingon speak. I think It works great to make them seem new and alien. It also makes the scenes where they speak Klingon to their crew and then standard to the Federation that much cooler.

When exactly is this series going to fulfill its promise of exploring strange new worlds? It’s been shipped based mostly. Unfortunately, the characters also remain unpleasant, doing lots of daft things. There have been no heroics of any worth yet. Just very, very dull, unimaginative storytelling, accompanied by the worst CGI to ever grace a Star Trek show. So disappointed!

Now that they have been renewed for Season 2, they have plenty of time to do that.

@Picard’s Patty,

That’s how I feel as well. It’s surprising how limited the show is giving their huge budget. We are not seeing much of the Federation or the other civilizations in that era.

‘The Expanse’ with a far less budget managed to establish a divided solar system between Earth, Mars and the Belt.

@Picard — haha … You forgot the “/s” tag … at least you ended it the way the current US president would, so we knew you were serious. ;-)

If you thought this show was going to be about exploration in its first year, you haven’t been paying much attention.

@Michael Hall,

Actually it is you who haven’t been paying attention!



STAR TREK: DISCOVERY will follow the voyages of Starfleet on their missions to discover new worlds and new lifeforms, and one Starfleet officer who must learn that to truly understand all things alien, you must first understand yourself.

How do they use the spore drive, now that the tardigrade is gone?

That was explained in ep 5

@Nebula It wasn’t fully, actually. Stamets used it once. Not clear whether he’s used it again or whether he’ll need to for every jump.

I need to watch it again, but I’m not sure they used the spore drive in this episode. I thought that when they went to the Nebula they just used conventional warp drive.

I think the implication is that Stamets is now the full time spore jockey, as indicated by his new “groovy” demeanor, and comment about getting used to being jabbed by needles.

Maybe they augmented him with some sort of “needle receptacles” on his body

Spoiler alert:

What was Tyler drinking? Looked a lot like red wine (aka the next best stuff, since he possibly can´t get blood wine on the Discovery)

Prune juice ;)


Are those marks from an agonizer in Lorca’s back?

Ugh, for the first time AA failed me. The new episode wouldn’t load and I was watching at 10:30. Try again tonight I hope!

DSC has been renewed for a second season, apparently. Expect to see lots of commentary about that here, amidst continued shouting over “Lethe.”

At first, I thought that the “holodeck” featured in this episode was out of place, but I remembered that there was a holographic simulator on the Enterprise in one of the Animated Series episodes (assuming we consider that show canon). I believe their intent was to convey that this is pretty rudimentary compared to the 24th century holodecks. For example, perhaps there is no actual solid substance, but rather just holographic images with perhaps some force field technology to simulate a surface?

@Captain Danno — right. Roddenberry always wanted a holodeck, and there’s even some debate whether we saw it in season 3 of TOS used in a minor way. TAS cemented the sophisticated use of one as normal in what was the 4th season of TOS, complete with the safety protocols being turned off.

This one too could have been more VR than holodeck, and the fact that the entrance was through the armory suggests it wasn’t used for recreational purposes at all. I was upset at first, but decided this isn’t too far outside of canon, especially after ENT basically showed us the tech (albeit alien) 100 years earlier.

Yes but the point is people complained the 24th century was too advanced because of stuff like the holodeck. And now there is a freaking holodeck a century earlier. It may not be as advanced as what it looks like later but I never got the remote sense Starfleet had holodeck technology any time during TOS period.

I just don’t get why they were so determined to put the show in this era but then make it feel so much more advanced? Its clear the writers don’t really want it in the 23rd century outside of being able to throw out a TOS reference once in awhile.

I’d suppose the holographic environment in this cannot be larger than the simulator room it is taking place in. The novelty of the 24th century holodeck was exactly this – an endless explorable world all contained within a small cube room.

That was a weak episode.

The whole Vulcan ESP connection was not great as a concept or the silly way they executed the scenes.

They’re making it too obvious that Tyler is a Klingon agent, throwing in the line “You fight like a Klingon.” Either the whole Tyler/Voq thing is misdirection or it is just poor writing.

Lorca might be Garth after all.

I was surprised to see the holodeck since Ted Sullivan, one of co-writers of this episode, explicitly denied the existence of that tech in a tweet back in September saying the holodeck “Not invented yet!”

Not a fan of having Trek references in every single episode, they don’t need that.

I’m sure a dick joke or two would have helped. There’s no such thing as too many dick jokes.

@Michael Hall,

What an idiotic comment.

How about we call it a VR battle simulator. No forcefields etc, presumably.


Didn’t seem that way. The walls, the floor and the door all looked solid. You have Lorca and Tyler in a reconstructed Klingon prison ship. They were moving in the corridor, going into the cell; all the while shooting at Klingons.

That was a holodeck.

This was a very good episode with some low points to chew on.

It’s a good thing that they didn’t include any viscerally graphic gore for the first time since the pilot. The throat-cutting was done swiftly and in a non-exploitative way.

Tyler was handled brilliantly. The remarks about him fighting like a Klingon or Burnahm just acting like a human… wonderful.

I’ve grown a real liking for most of the characters. Tilly, Burnham, Stamets, Culber, Saru… all of them are truly likable individuals.

If it only wasn’t for Lorca… I hate this man. Sorry! Now he sacrifices his girlfriend to the Klingons in order not to lose his command. He’s so full of it…

And no, the holodeck and Vulcan suicide bombers are not entirely convincing either…

The series is balanced on a razor’s edge… one moment it’s perfect Trek, the best ever made, the next moment, there is the WTF experience I certainly could do without…

But then, this is what makes it interesting, isn’t it? It’s emotionally more demanding than any other show so far, very reminiscent of Babylon 5 and NuBSG…

On the bright side: the only thing I need to do is to accept that Lorca is the first on-team villain on a Star Trek show. He’s the in-depth complex version of all those throw-away Starfleet baddies they used from day one… all those renegade Admirals, Captains and Commodores, especially overused in the movies…

Maybe he can eventually return to grace in the end, but at this point, he’s Admirals Marcus and Dougherty, Commodore Decker and Garth of Izar combined. It’s a fresh POV to have such a characters as a lead on a Trek show, but nevertheless, I just love hating him…:-)

“holodeck and Vulcan suicide bombers”

The holodeck thing yeah it really didn’t need to be there HOWEVER I can give it a pass because the Discovery is a new science ship and at least the room it was in was very very VERY small and looked very limited in what it could do. (It was off the armory as well so used for practice.)

As for the Volcan suicide bomber…. well there have been radical Vulcans in other Trek Series so it isn’t quite a stretch here. I thought it was done fine.

The Vulcan make sense as an extrapolation from Enterprise actually.

They did and yet they kinda came out of nowhere at the same time. We haven’t really explored them that much on Discovery so it felt like it got brought up and then dropped. A Klignon sucidie bomber might have been more understandable for me. It would have had the benefit of expanding the war so we could see it from more perspectives. Oh well maybe it’s a topic we can come back to.

Lorca’s decision was more nuanced than “sacrificing his girlfriend”. She wasnt his girlfriend. He also had no way of knowing for sure the Klingon meeting was a trap (unless its revealed he did)

He was taking advantage of the situation to play the odds that either her meeting would be successful and maybe she wouldnt have to relieve him (or, at worst, was buying himself some time) or that the meeting would so poorly and he’d not be relieved.

It was actually great. because he ends up taking Cornwell’s advice about not doing missions without approval. If Command orders him to rescue her, then he’s essentially doing that which she didnt want in the first place, thus proving he was right. Or, more likely, Command wont risk Discovery for ONE person and this the Admiral remains a POW (and gets a little dose of what Lorca dealt with).

Certainly, Lorca is being portrayed as a guy who should have trouble living with himself. And as he stars at his own dim reflection, we get the impression, he’s maybe not as cool as he seems.

God points. I would also add that with Sarek out of the picture she really was the next best option. She also knew going in that it might possibly be a trap. The only part that was odd to me was her quasi confusion about Lorca’s PTSD issues. She knew it was a possibility when she slept with him. I am glad they keep shading Lorca grey. It makes him more intriguing.

AND, Lorca just got chewed out and lost his command for going off on an unauthorized rescue mission, risking the federations secret weapon. So he’s completely justified to get orders from Starfleet first. He’s doing what Starfleet ordered him to do.

Yes, but we know Lorca is not ordering a rescue mission, not because it is risky but because he doesn’t want to rescue the Admiral who is out to get him help and have him step down from command. Lorca never follows orders anyways as pointed out by Saru who seems baffled that Lorca would rather wait for orders than doing it his way.

They are writing the entire Klingon military to be so completely villainous and dishonourable, I’m curious to see how this all plays out.

The entire basis of the war has me wondering why we are not yet seeing absolutely all Federation member planets in unbridled unification to wipe out the Klingon Empire.

This is not an inter-planetary war over a misunderstanding or generic politics.

The war started because the Klingons were ***full-out in Federation territory… and opened fire on a Starfleet armada***

There is no grey area here. They invaded Federation space. In fact, the writing has been too elementary in this regard. Literally no complexity. It’s black and white… the Klingons are to blame.

When Admiral Chach-Bag from the Europa tried to immediately talk some on-site peace… they sent a cloaked ship in head-first to destroy the ship.

Now… Starfleet has definitive proof that the Klingons have assassinated the Jedi Elders from Stormy Planet IV and *another* Admiral has been kidnapped… all the while when the meeting was in good faith…. well… c’mon…. the Klingons are pure Black Hat twirly moustache at this point and there is no excuse for anything except for their immediate annihilation.

Now Starfleet observes Lorca making win after win after win…. and they want to hand him crap about it? It’s getting a bit far-fetched. Trillions of lives are literally at stake in the Federation… and Starfleet doesn’t have his back 1000% ??? (regardless of what us, the viewers, get to see)

Just too many contradictions.

Am I alone here?

Then again, only 15 years after World War II, we were all in love with Germany again. So what the hell do I know.

Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed the similarities between the aliens of the neutral meeting spot and Star Wars.

The aliens the Klingons killed surely are powerful that the Klingons not dare to kill or capture anyone during a meeting of peace.

The Klingons would be wiped out by them, no? Starfleet would send the entire armada if an admiral was captured like this. The beings that were killed are suppose to be all powerful and such an act should not have been possible. There would have been escape plans and omnipotent forces at work by the aliens to help this peace meeting see its fruition.

LOL they have a holodeck now??? Can someone remind me why this show had to be set during the TOS again? The ship feels more advanced than the Enterprise D at this point. Especially with the spore drive thing.

Outside of that I liked the episode if once again didn’t love it. The whole ‘let’s bring up Spock but not show him’ is already feeling a bit annoying. And rescuing Sarek but Burnham doesn’t consult Spock about it? It felt like a stretch. Are her and Spock not talking (although I guess what we know about that family its not much of a shock ;)). But I didn’t mind the story line itself and it was nice to get a bit of Sarek’s background.

The Klingons are just coming off too one dimensional now. Why are they kidnapping the admiral during a peach negotiation meeting? I get kidnapping Lorca but taking the admiral seems a bit too much. Forget the Soviets they are starting to feel more like the North Korean and not give an eff over how they look to everyone else. Even the Dominion recognized some lines not to cross, this would be one of them.

But I did like Lorca’s story in this. This guy is just the man lol. He also doesn’t seem to give an eff about how Starfleet view him and does what he wants. Its going to be interesting how his story shakes out in the end. He may not be there at the beginning of season 2.

Overall decent episode but as usual I can’t say I loved it all.

It’s a VR battle simulator. No forcefields. :)