NOTE: Article discusses spoilers from the season one finale of Star Trek: Discovery
Following the eventful season one finale of Discovery and the surprising encounter with the USS Enterprise, executive producers of the show have been talking to various outlets (and appearing on the after show) to discuss the episode, and what’s next. We break down the highlights of what they had to say below.
Enterprise encounter planned shortly after Fuller departure, seen as inevitable
Speaking on After Trek, co-creator Alex Kutzman talked about how they worked backwards from the finale:
The whole season was reverse-engineered from knowing at the beginning where we wanted to end. For Sonequa’s arc and the bridge crew coming together as a family and knowing the Enterprise was going to show up as the last frame, because obviously we owe the audience some answers to the question of “Why has Spock never mentioned his half-sister before.” The Enterprise promises answers to that question.
While the decision to bring the Enterprise in came early, it was not conceived until after co-creator and original showrunner Bryan Fuller left the show in October 2016. New co-showrunner Aaron Harberts explained to The Hollywood Reporter:
Bryan wasn’t involved with this part. It definitely came later in the evolution. As we were charting out this season and what we wanted to do next season, we thought, ‘Let’s tell this story now.’
Speaking with IGN, Harberts explained their reasoning for introducing the Enterprise now:
…it seemed like we were gonna be running into the timeline and the time period of The Original Series. The more we thought about that … it became more and more apparent that those two ships existed at the same time. And the more that we realized oh, obviously Burnham and Sarek have a relationship, and Sarek has a relationship with Spock, and that ship that he’s on is out there, from very, very early on we knew [we’d bring in the Enterprise] probably because people would be wondering about it, and wanting [us] to. Like, there’s no real… it’s provocative for us too, so let’s just get there, and tell those stories.
Enterprise introduction allows sync with canon
Speaking to Variety, Kurtzman elaborated further
The show is called ‘Discovery.’ It’s not ‘Enterprise.’ So yes, the Enterprise will play a part of Season 2 but it will absolutely not overshadow Discovery. And I think with Enterprise’s arrival in the finale we recognize that the audience has a lot of questions about our synchronicity with the original series, which really means or synchronicity with canon. So the promise of the Enterprise holds the answers to a lot of those questions, including Spock’s relationship with his half-sister who he’s never mentioned.
Harberts also spoke to this canon connection with IGN
And I think the other question that’s always been coming up, and it’s a fair question, is how did Discovery fit into canon? And by having them cross paths with Enterprise, that’s our opportunity to continue to tell that story and sort of fill the audience in on exactly where our ship fits.
Aware new design can spark controversy
Speaking to Inverse, Harberts acknowledged the the new look for the Enterprise is not going to be something fans agree on:
One thing I have learned is that I haven’t seen Star Trek fans be able to agree on anything. Some Star Trek fans are going to love the new design and some are going to hate it. But what people need to realize is that we’ve got visual artists, production designers, and our visual effects people, that are fans on staff. I just hope peoples’ ire or emotions don’t get in the way of enjoying the show. You have to embrace where you’re at now.
Don’t expect to see Spock
While they aren’t ruling it out, the executive producers made it clear in various interviews that the introduction of the Enterprise does not mean the introduction of Spock as a character on the show. Harberts told THR that they are not casting for the role and even expressed doubt that they ever could do so successfully, saying:
[W]e realize how incredible Leonard Nimoy and Zachary Quinto’s performances were and what [Star Trek movie director] J.J. Abrams and the original series were able to pull off with that character. Finding another actor that could even come close to what Leonard Nimoy did with the original portrayal, we’d never want to go down that road.
Expect more spore-driving in Season 2 as Stamets finds his second act in life
Another late event in the season finale was Stamets giving up his job as the human component to make the spore drive work, but on After Trek co-showrunners Gretchen J. Berg and Aaron Harberts made it clear that isn’t the end of his story or the drive:
Gretchen: We have set up that there are some difficulties using it, but you don’t get a Maserati and then put it in the garage. I think we got to figure out some things, for the ship to run the way we love to see it run.
Aaron: The spore drive is such a metaphor for Stamets as well. Season 2 is all about his second act. He’s not driving the ship at the moment. He has lost the love of his life. So, we are going to be talking about how he pulls that together.
Another hint that the last spore was significant
In episode 13 there was a moment when a single spore floated around the lab and landed on Tilly. When asked a question on After Trek about any lingering effects of the tardigrade DNA on Staments, Harberts pivoted to hint we should be keeping our eyes on another crewmember:
I think that fans should be thinking about what landed on Tilly.
L’Rell and Tyler’s challenges for season 2
The showrunners strongly implied that Mary Chieffo and Shazad Latif would be back for season two as they discussed what their characters are facing after L’Rell takes command of the Klingon Empire:
Aaron: I think she can be trusted, she has proven that. I think the question is, can the other Klingons be trusted with her in charge?
Gretchen: L’Rell has a huge order in front of her, but I think the right person is in charge.
Aaron: The fact that Tyler has stayed with her and the fact that he has Voq’s memories is going to be a help.
They also talked about Tyler’s decision to stay with L’Rell:
Gretchen: As the Torchbearer, he is there to light the way for her and help her along. She is goign to need all the allies she can get. It is not going to be easy for Tyler, as looking like a human, whether he has access to Klingon memories, but he has committed to helping her at this time.
Aaron: As we look into season two, Tyler is definitely going to be questioning the wisdom of that decision. He is the ultimate expat.
Season two will deal with spirituality and science, plus more Kelpiens
On After Trek, when the producers were asked if they could spoil anything for the second season, Harberts said:
I think one of the things we are really interested this year is the collision of science and spirituality. I think that is something moving from a war chapter. That’s something that excites us for this season.
And during a lighting round of questions, the producers were willing confirm season two will have more Kelpiens, more planets and more partying, but wouldn’t discuss if Prime Lorca survived in the Mirror Universe. Nor would they talk about who is set to be the captain of the USS Discovery.
Star Trek: Discovery is available exclusively in the USA on CBS All Access It airs in Canada on the Space Channel and is available on Netflix everywhere else.
Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.
The suspense between seasons feels similar to that between “best of both worlds”
In absolutely no way does it feel like that.
To you, perhaps but to me it feels absolutely that way.
Not for Star Trek fans anyway.
Not all Star Trek fans think the way you do though, Trekboi. That doesn’t make us any less of a fan.
So you’re saying he’s not a Star Trek fan? There’s subjectivity (good or bad) but his liking Star Trek and being just as excited for this as BobW is an objective fact.
GATE KEEPING! Hoooooray!
Umm trekboi… not for YOU. Please don’t speak for me or any other real fan.
No, trekboi is on point. This show is a mess.
Neither you nor he speak for me. You can both speak for yourselves.
Agreed. As soon as that computer screen showed the registry appearing ‘NCC-17..’ we all shuffled to the edges of our seats with dropped jaws. A collective “aaaaaah!” as it ended. We must have re-watched that bit 10 times, pausing to look at the Enterprise, and she looked great, a nice update to the old 60’s look. Can’t wait for season 2, I’ll have to just collect some merchandise while waiting!
Not a chance. At best, this is a Farscape cliffhanger where the season has wrapped up, but the writers need a reason for you to come back. If Discovery was cancelled right now, it wouldn’t be a big deal and life for Starfleet and the Enterprise would go on.
If TNG was cancelled after BOBW, everyone would wonder, “Did Riker kill Picard?”; “Did they save Earth?”; and other very, very important questions. In addition, it still isn’t similar because there was no internet in 1990 and the best “behind the scenes” info you could get would be a cast member interview in the Official Star Trek Fan Club magazine (and I still have a couple of them laying around here).
This is absolutely nothing like the wait between Season 3 and 4 of TNG.
Yeah I was living in Germany back then and IIRC season 3 TNG was the last season shown on the public channel and then for season 4 it switched to a new channel, who started airing it from the start again. I seem to remember I waited about a YEAR to see the conclusion to BoBW after “Fire!” and it was crazy.
I’m so pleased to see how they wrapped up season 1, even sneaking some smooth head Klingons into the show, and a Trill O.o, confidently planting their flag on the hill of Gene’s vision.
They EARNED the Enterprise showing up, and it looks gorgeous.
All sources I know say, that Both parts of Best Of Both Worlds aired one day after the other in Germany. The change of broadcasters happened after the episode “Final Mission” (fitting, isn’t it?).
Not even in the same universe to this Trek enthusiast, Christopher Norton.
yes not the same because that was the end of season 3 about 75 episodes in.
Personally, this in no way comes close to BOBW.
Very much. Ofcourse the haters will twist themselves into knots to disagree but these people Could make a list of everything they want and if discovery delivered all of them, they’d still complain.
The cliffhanger is difffent but I agree it’s very much a sense of dying to see next season. Hopefully they don’t screw it up!
I have been disappointed in the show since it took the minor universe detour. A lot more depth could have been added to the Klingon war instead. The finale plot also feels contrived…
Never understand why there was a need to do a complete visual reboot of the Klingons and now the Enterprise…
I was extremely patient with the show until the Mirror Lorca reveal – then there was no denying the kind of rancid turkey we had on our hands. The death of Star Trek looks like a very real possibility now – we’re going to have an entire generation whose idea of Trek is based on Star Trek Into Darkness and Star Trek Discovery. Trek will become just one more brand of generic fantasy adventure product … “Star Trek? Oh, that nerdy, boring version of Guardians of the Galaxy. Meh.”
Only time will tell, Gropius.
If Season One and the finale have taught us anything it is that there is always hope in darkness and we should never compromise who we are as a people or ourselves as individuals. By staying true to ourselves, that hope will eventually outshine the darkness.
I can think of no greater metaphor for Discovery to embrace in a world that is quickly going mad. And it certainly sets it apart from a dumb action movie like Star Trek Into Darkness.
As for the redesigned Enterprise…. the show is a visual reboot of the franchise and I think that that much has been obvious from the start A redesign was inevitable and I’m not mad. Life is too short to get riled up by trivial things such as redesigns and the canon of a franchise.
So much THIS!
I was sitting on the couch listening to Burnham’s speech, confronting Admiral Cornwell, about how we cannot compromise our principles when things get tough, how due process and being the change we want to see will let us work through this madness that we find ourselves in today. It was like being at church in a great way.
Star Trek Discovery wasn’t the Star Trek we wanted, it is the Star Trek we NEED.
@Hauke Fischer — amen. You might be the only “real” fan left on this forum. ;-)
Wouldn’t it be nice if every second of the first season had screamed that? Instead, it’s a grace note that falls flat at the end of a season of hogwash.
I’m amazed some Trekkies are giving this mess a pass.
Please don’t pass off your opinion of Star Trek as a fact.
Some of us enjoy Discovery.
I agree, yet felt that a “With all due respect, Admiral” would have been really good. As in, “I’m right about this, but I’m showing you the respect due to your rank.”
Burnham really came across as holier-than-thou in that moment and at the end.
It fit her character, in that she always was very dedicated to the principles of the Federation, BUT Starfleet leadership was set up to be Very Bad People Doing Very Bad Things, and that “YUGE” contrast really thumped, and irritated me. How simplistic.
That, and her “This is Who We Are” exhortations, really drove the point home, to excess.
I can see cowboy diplomacy — to a point. I can see independent thinking. I can see rebelling against injustice most of all. All the same, if I were the leadership, I’d keep an eye on Cdr Burnham, because she seems like a loose cannon. Of course she’s “always right.” Always, conveniently, proven right by the script, in the end.
I would be most interested to see an episode or two in which Burnham’s hubris is dampened by a simplistic solution she might bring to a complex problem, which brings up more problems in the end [This would echo some contemporary US and world politics].
Ah, the righteousness. So it went with one James T. Kirk, as well. It’s a little harder for me to swallow these days, I guess. Institutional obstacles are not always so easily countered, and it would’ve been much more interesting to me to have seen more of the struggle to overcome them, than a Big Dramatic Speech that resolved the situation in under a minute.
Should have nuked Kronos and show star fleet/federation that did not work then time travel and fix season 1 and turn it into Discovery with Prime Lorca and 1st officer Michael and science officer Saru and Admiral Georgiou.
With no war no spore drive and send MU Lorca home when swap happens. Show Enterprise escorting Discovery out of dock. Have Klingon and Federation tensions in TOS.
“I was extremely patient with the show until the Mirror Lorca reveal“
Here too. It wasn’t great but at the time it still had a positive going for it. A morally ambiguous captain. We’ve never seen that before and I thought it a GREAT idea. But then turns out he wasn’t complex at all. Just a cliche black hat bad guy. Ugh. That was where the show fell apart completely.
I think they invested far too much of S1 in the Mirror Uni. And I agree with the “black hat,” though Isaacs did manage to bring something more to it than mustache-twirling villainy.
I hope if they do bring back Lorca in Prime form [please please please], he is as complex and interesting as the MULorca. I like to imagine PU Lorca getting to know the crew, and they, him [with some interesting feelings of mistrust].
The Klingon War took a backseat to this too-early MU diversion, and we lost a good, enigmatic, war-fighting captain to that “Mirror” foolishness. It would have been good to see the captain struggling with his commitment to [what looked like] shady, “Section 31”-type methods to win at any cost.
It would have been more interesting to see the politics of the 24 houses, all at each other’s throats, and how that affected the war. DISCO invested so much early energy into the Klingons, why not let that play out?
Hope we’ll see more of L’Rell with her Klingon cohort in S2, how some try to undermine her and some ally with her. And will they accept TyVoq, or try to force him out?
@Gropius — yeah, better that than the generation who grew up on GENERATION, INSURRECTION, and NEMESIS.
So I guess you went ahead and watched the last the 3 episodes anyway right?
Star Trek died with Braga when he became lead show runner on Voyager then ended up trashing Enterprise as well. Hence why we have the JJ trilogy and now DSC on TV lol. If you want the forehead of the week formula go watch the spoof show on Fox
Bringing in the big E in the finale felt like a desperation move to me. It also opens up yet another can of worms before even corralling the worms they already let out. Sure, as a fan it was fun to see it. But from a show standpoint it just didn’t seem like a good idea. For this show, the less we see of NCC-1701 the better.
They always said this show would link with TOS. They also said “canon issues” would be dealt with in season 2 and apparently they will be using Enterprise to help with that
Disco, they did indeed say it would link to TOS. But it was inferred that it would link in terms of events and other like in universe events rather than something like Captain Pike having an adventure with the Discovery crew, for example.
They also first said the canon issues would be dealt with before the season ended. Then said it would be dealt with in season 2. What are the chances they push it back further still?
They said canon issues would be dealt with by the end of the SERIES, not season.
So the producers now think season 2 will be the end of the series?
Hint: The show runners are NOT going to deal with the myriad of canon issues they have piled deep since the first episode… They have actively rejected what fans thought and they’re not going to start dealing with things now! LOL
I completely disagree with you kirok.
This is the biggest problem with Prequels – crowbarring plot points in that later have to be resolved to match future history. Kurtzman’s rhetorical question ““Why has Spock never mentioned his half-sister before?” is a perfect example. Spock never HAD a sister before, adoptive (not half) or otherwise. The show runners keep asserting this series is set in the prime’verse, yet every chance they get to prove that, they fail. All they would have had to use is use the Enterprise as it appeared in the remastered “The Cage.” I remain unconvinced, so to me this is the Disco-verse.
Similar to “Best of Both Worlds” if “Best of Both Words” were written by a confused child given directions by a corporate boardroom.
Please stop acting like Best of Both Worlds was some miraculous Trek episode. It wasn’t. I remember watching it when it originally aired and have recently re-watched it on Netflix. There was so much wrong with that episode, the most glaring was Shelby. Butting heads with another Commander on HIS ship is one thing but it was taken overboard just to create drama. If it had been a Discovery episode, haters would have destroyed it.
But it actually created drama, which is more than be said of anything that happened on “discovery.”
BoBW Part 1 was great. Part 2 was a complete let down from the very opening. After ‘Mr LaForge! Fire!’ we get a pedantic female voice announcing the conclusion, followed by a Geordi countdown that sucks all the scene’s energy before the weapon turns out to be a stupid bit bit of space tinsel that doesn’t do anything. After all the buildup, the clearing of significant parts of the ship to avoid radiation, i was expecting a big blast, panels exploding, people being thrown about the place. I doubt the blast in BoBW 2 even made any male crewmembers miss the toilet bowl!
“As entertainment, this was a failure. As a philosophical statement about what the Federation stands for? Limp.” – Entertainment Weekly. I recommend their review, for anyone who thinks the depressing mess of “Discovery” constitutes quality storytelling.
I am guilty of this as much as the next person but you should never give your opinion as a fact. So there are some fans who like Discovery. That doesn’t make them wrong: it makes them different to you. Instead of sniping about it (as I have done, yes) just accept it and move on.
They are Not Star Trek fans, they are just people who like some random Sci_fantasy rip of of star trek- well it’s name at least.
Ah yes the fundamentalist True Scotsman fallacy. Because if it’s one thing I want from my fandom it’s zealotry.
All Hail, Emperor Trekboi!
Who are you to dictate what makes a Star Trek fan? If you get so riled up by a television show, then perhaps you should look at your life and make some adjustments. It’s just a television show when all is said and done.
People who like discovery are rational and accept others don’t. The irrational haters who devote just as much time hate watching and whining confuse their jaded opinions as fact and get very upset when they hear different opinions. Weird.
Usually the difference is the mindless haters only get Star Trek on the surface. And since they can’t see any deeper they get angry. Those that see the stories deeper understand them better.
It’s lole enjoying STID. It was a terrible movie. But if you turn off your brain or if your brain only allows a surface understanding of it, then sure there are enough explosions and fights and yelling and chasing to be entertaining. But it doesn’t mean it’s a good film. And there’s nothing wrong with that by the way.
Discovery is by no means perfect. But the majority of haters here are miserable irrational whiners. I quite enjoy having the rare nuanced discussion about pros and cons but it’s not often you find that among the haters.
I could write a whole list of issues with this show and especially this finale. But most of he haters can’t even do that because they don’t know what they don’t like other then it wasn’t the show THEY wanted.
But truthfully this wasn’t the show originally planned. And it wasn’t the show the current staff created. Season 2 is where these guys sink or swim. Because it’s their baby from day one
I don’t think you’re a star trek fan, trekboi. Stop telling other people they are not star trek fans.
Gropius, I just read the EW review. I buy into it probably at about 80%. Much of it was spot on indeed.
Really excited for season 2! Especially after seeing how they ramped things up with the awesome Mirror Universe saga after they came back from their break.
Compared to the first seasons of the other Trek shows ( barring TOS ), they’ve had a really great run generally.
Fictional review Paid for by CBS lol
Are you aware of what defamation is sir?
Yes, because Season 1 of TNG, Enterprise, Voyager, and DS9 were better… LOL some fans have truly lost it. Each one of those shows picked up at the season 3 mark. Discovery’s season 1 was extremely enjoyable. TOS is the only one who has had a great season 1 from front to end.
Go away Troll
Trekboi the troll… go away.
If trekboi’s IQ were 1 point lower he’d be a plant
Trekboi, I think you are onto something. These guys are CBS shills. Please keep voicing your opinion. :)
why the F**k did Tyler leave discovery? i am totally beside myself about this
Why did anybody do anything the way they did? The character on this show – all of them – are sooooo badly written.
I felt embarrassed watching the season finale…
served his purpose as a spy and as character for show, led back to his handler
I’m glad he did. His character was kind of a mess by the end (in both senses of the word) and he would have been a difficult character to keep writing in every week. I’m also pleasantly surprised that they didn’t just kill him off.
Me, too. He was becoming quite interesting, so I hope to see more of this in S2.
Like Tilly said last episode, he has no future in Starfleet. Best case they’ll throw him in a lab to study. He would never get another commission.
This way he can forge a new path and maybe eventually, he and Burnham can fall in love again when they’ve both had time to work through their trauma.
I would be more interested to see him and L’Rell [re-]form an intimate bond, simply because his adventures in Starfleet all started with his love for L’Rell, her commitment to saving his life by using him as a spy, and all the attendant dilemmas for him. Because L’Rell has done a lot of things TO him as well as for him; he served the Klingons while serving in Starfleet; he knows the, umm, Best of Both Worlds
[runs and hides]
I think his tenuous position as consort [or advisor] to L’Rell would prove very interesting, dramatically.
Tyler suffering from Stockholm syndrome
aw no thanks, i’d like to see him back on discovery with burnham and rest of the crew, not only because i am a fan of Tyler, more importantly i am a fan of Latif, and i suspect him staying with L’rell will amount to less screen time and less $$ as it would appear the klingon story line won’t be as big in season two.
I am sorry but I see absolutely no reason why he shouldn’t be able to get commission back and rejoin starf fleet. The guy is a POW/victim , I love Star Trek and I am really trying to stay with this show. But these show runners and writers, I just . Nvm I am at a loss for words. My second issue maybe someone can explain why saru isn’t getting promoted? He earned it
Because he’s Vok not Tyler
He is essentially Tyler now with Voq’s memories.
He’s still confirmed for season 2 so I suspect his journey will bring him back to Discovery.
I was very stoked to see the Enterprise – which looks amazing by the way – and was already contemplating the possibilities:
Would we see Quinto as Spock?
Or would they recast?
I was open and ready to embrace either scenario.
And then I see this line:
“Don’t expect to see Spock”
And instantly squashes my high hopes.
They didn’t use age appropriate without aging make up Wynona Ryder (apparently their Fictional $7 Million an episode budget couldn’t afford her for a couple of scenes while Stranger Things has her as a cast member.
They didn’t use Ben cross either what’s your point?
I’m fine with them not casting Ben Cross and Winona Ryder, likewise I’m not overly concerned with Bruce Greenwood reprising the role of Pike but if there’s any possibility of getting a Zachary Quinto or Karl Urban on the show I say go for it!
Because they don’t want to confuse the audience since KT films are in a different universe entirely and using actors from that universe would probably confuse people its all happening in the same one. It has nothing to do with getting Wynona Ryder they just wanted a different actress entirely to distinguish the products.
at least you are consistent with your bad points boi
Well, I’d recommend reading Desperate Hours. They basically canonized the book with this episode (the description of the Klingon raid that killed Burnham’s parents is lifted from the book almost verbatim).
Basically Burnham made peace with Spock, but he chose to repress the issues afterwards and remain jealous of her relationship to Sarek (which he saw very differently to her). She might think they’re ok, but Spock is NOT.
And now she basically saved the Federation and the multiverse, that will be tough to live up to for him…
Well spock did help save Earth in TMP, self sacrifice in TWOK, saved Earth again helping bring whales back from the past, and helped the Klingons and bring peace. Spock wont need to be jealous of Michael as it seems Sareks biological son and adoptive daughter is so good at saving Earth and folks around them.
Spock does not seem the petty jealous type to me. It would accentuate his human half. Which at the time he wanted to pretend did not exist.
I think the Enterprise–which I loved seeing, and had no problems with the visual reboot–was ultimately just fan misdirection. I assume they’ll move quickly on from it as quickly as they realistically can in the next season.
They earned this victory lap. DSC spent this season setting the stage and carve out their own identity and credibility as a show. Now they get to play with the toys :)
I guess this encounter with the Enterprise will happen before Spock worked with Pike?
Nope. Spock would be on board.
He had served 13 years with Captain Pike before Kirk took command. DISCO is set 10 years before Kirk.
unless Spock is lost or mia and they need to solve a puzzle
I’m not sure I buy that they aren’t going to show Spock. Seems like that might be a bit of misdirection. The look between Sarek and Burnham was fraught with meaning, so it seems clear to me Spock is already serving on the 1701. So why bring in the Enterprise and not show Spock?
I guess Pike could say “He’s locked himself in the bathroom and won’t come out until his stupid father and adopted sister leave.”
The distress call could very well be tied to Spock vanishing and Pike needs Michael and Sarek’s help in finding him.
Yeah, I just don’t understand the idea to have Michael and Sarek on Discovery, then introduce the Enterprise, but not have Spock show up? What kind of a plan is that? It seems like they are constructing a storyline entirely set up to introduce Spock but they aren’t going to include him? I just don’t see it. It would be like making an entire prequel show set just before TOS and never including the Enterprise…oh…I see.
Plus the excuse that they don’t want to try to compete with Nimoy and his portrayal of Spock? They didn’t care about that with Mark Lenard. Plus, depicting a younger Spock (The Cage-era) could be a different take on the character since Spock’s depiction in The Cage was not what it would be later.
I’m more curious to see who plays Pike and Number One!
It was a decent finale IMO but at the end of the day I just can’t make it the prime universe in my mind- especially after seeing the Enterprise…………….Which is fine as then I can enjoy it w/o getting tweaked. :-)
Funny though, this Enterprise looks exactly what I had in mind for the first Connie Enterprise from the Kelvinverse- the one Robert April commanded in the prequel comic for STID.
Interestingly I found the first part of the season overall to be a little better and a little more Star Trek like with its stand alone episodes than the second part. It seems like they blew all their load for the first part of the season and just had no fuel for the conclusion and as a result limped to the finish line. By the way, did the producers say anything about how many episodes will we be getting for season 2?
It’s likely going to be 15 again.
My friends and I have watched the Mudd episode again and again. It is, pretty much, a stand-alone episode. It also showed ingenious people working together to defeat an enemy.
Another standout for me was the episode in which Burnham figured out how they could let the Tardigrade go free.
yes, I always enjoy time loop stories with good detective and team work stories. I wonder if Tilly will become a tardigrade or she becomes posseses by the doctor or mu lorca
This episode was awful. The entire second half of the season — except maybe for the episode Frakes directed — was awful.
And NOW you f***ers are telling me that you’re going to have the Enterprise in the second season but without the sac to introduce Spock…?
I will not be back for season two. Nope, uh uh, I’m out. I subscribed the entire first season, but CBS will not get another dime of my money until they produce something worth paying for.
Teleplay by Gretchen J. Berg & Aaron Harberts, Story by Akiva Goldsman, Gretchen J. Berg & Aaron Harberts…please stay out of the writers room!
Not buying it. So you come to an obscure Trek fan blog and comment… but won’t watch the show? I call BS. :) Nice try though.
You say that…but I guarantee we’ll see you back in here complaining about episode quality when Season 2 comes out.
The Frakes episode was so great, in part because it was the only episode to have some levity to it. But, honestly, I think this finale was my favorite episode of the season because it was one focused on character and not spectacle, people and not plot twists. Not that everything worked perfectly, but I like where their heads were at.
The Enterprise was great fan service, but its foolish to think the show will go significantly in that direction after doing such a quality job at establishing a new crew heading out for new adventures.
you’ll be back lol
Alex Kurtzman, I cringe every time I see that guy’s face. I hope I can find it in my heart to one day forgive him…
Never thought I’d say this, but his work actually made me appreciate Berman&Braga.
And to think we used to call them “The Killer B’s” back in the 00s! ;)
Berman&Braga was fantastic up till First Contact. After First Contact, Star Trek felt tired and recycled.
I enjoyed 2009, Stid and Beyond, not perfect but very entertaining. I also appreciate the fact that Star Trek is on tv again. These people care and try to do their best.
I enjoyed season 1 but that doesnt mean it was perfect, as fans we like to examine everything and list the good and bad and wish for xyz. Yes we are a hard bunch to please.
We are a hard bunch to please because we’re intelligent [fluffing my feathers].
I think he came off as very affable. You’re not going to get him to say they screwed the pooch on the reboot movies (Into Darkness in particular, 09 is decent and Beyond actually a LOT better than most people give it credit for).
But he said it in a diplomatic way (basically “we learned a lot from the reboot movies and what worked and what doesn’t”).
They are working with a lot of red tape from the CBS/Paramount split, as well es trying to get new fans in, a new story format, at the same time not upsetting existing fans too much. It’s a tall order and I think they succeeded.
None of this is an excuse for creating mindless entertainment under the Star Trek name. Creators of both TOS and TNG had to deal with lots of constraints from multiple sources, and no matter how much complaining we hear from Ronald D. Moore and others, it’s those constraints that made them put out the best stuff they’ve ever written.
Yes but you also have to remember it took them time to find their way with those other shows too. Discovery is just 15 episodes in and they were trying to do something very different than those others. They certainly made a lot of mistakes but if they LEARN from them then we will probably get a better season next time. Thats the beauty of a TV show, they can change, adapt and make improvements. Hopefully so will Discovery.
I just hope they don’t run this show based on reactions from the Social Media universe.
Obviously I don’t either Marja but I do think they can understand what put fans off or what could’ve been done better at least. But no I don’t want them getting story ideas from social media because then Kirk and Spock would probably be on the Discovery as well fighting the Borg lol.
Oh please…. don’t act like Berman and Bragan didn’t create mindless entertainment while they were in charge of the franchise. Voyager and Enterprise are exactly that.
You didn’t feel that way already, after the 09 travesty?
Star Trek Discovery is the bigger travesty.
but you hang out on a fan site Jordan. Very intelligent on your part
There’s more to Trek than Shitscovery, Disco.
Kmart, of course I did. The comment I made was all encompassing.
understood, sorry for misunderstanding.
I think the Cliffhanger was unecessary. I undertsand why they write it in, but they could have waited until season 2 and give this one a nice closure. AS for the design, I’m okay with it, but it’s one of the examples why I think they should’ve set this show further back in time, maybe 20 years before TOS. Then the artistic differences could have explained away.
As somebody said above it’s not really a cliffhanger. You could end the show now and it still works, likewise you could open the season with a Captain’s log stating they’d helped Captain Pike with his Tribble infestation or whatever and are now on the way to Vulcan to pick up their new captain. For me the ending works regardless and ends the season on a positive note with the promise of exciting possibilities.
I thought Cline Mansell was Joey Pantoliano. It’s cool to have Clint. Being on Star Trek TOS as an infant and now .
Clint Mansell is a composer. You mean Clint Howard.
So they have no qualms frankensteinifying THE Enterprise, but they won’t be introducing the key member of her crew out of respect of Zachary Quinto? Really, I think they have their priorities seriously wrong.
I was actually looking forward to seeing more of that conflict which caused Spock and Sarek not to speak to each other for 18 years. It might’ve been nice to see Michael stuck between the two of them, trying to get them together and failing epicly. A wasted opportunity for some nice character building.
Speaking of Burnham… for the next season, could she please lose that… that… THING she wears on her head? It looks like she’s smuggling something in that trunk. What is it supposed to be anyway, a head bumper to protect her from low-hanging beams?
I think her hairstyle choice is to suggest freedom from being white washed in hollywood. I do like her with her Vulcan hair, the marge simpson hairstyle I am not a fan of.
Don’t you DARE insult the hair :p. I love it. Plus as somethoughts points out, there is some symbolism in it as well, the straightened artificial hair she has on Vulcan trying to fit in, and later as she “finds herself” her hair becomes more natural.
Precisely. When Burnham first came aboard with Sarek, her eyebrows were different, ending higher more toward the peak as it was obviously part of her efforts to fit in on Vulcan. As the season goes on, she lets a more human arching eyebrow form.
My favorite Burnham hairstyle was in Episode 3. Functional, femininne, natural.
Their response to the question about Spock on After Trek wasn’t an out and out denial. I took the name dropping of Quinto as a hint that they might go in that direction.
I have genuinely enjoyed Discovery. Like so many fans, I know Star Trek cannon inside & out & have been a fan of all Star Trek series while recognizing they have great moments as well as episodes that don’t work or are bad. I was even lucky enough to visit the Enterprise set years ago & sit in Captain Archer’s chair, so I feel like I know what I’m talking about when discussing Star Trek. But then, we all think our own perspective & understanding is the correct one, don’t we? Of course, if one looks closely enough one can see story contradictions within established cannon in each series. TNG season 2 “before the Klingons joined the Federation” anyone? I can accept a lot & retconning can be part of the fun. So Discovery is set in the prime timeline a few years after the events of “The Cage,” but with a uniform design we never saw before? Okay, I’ll keep an open mind. The new uniform’s are fantastic & tie back to the NX-01 era, so I’m onboard. Discovery is a neat looking ship but looks more advanced than the old Enterprise? Okay, must be a newer design leading to the TMP era. The computer identified a Klingon ship as a D-7 that looks nothing like that well established design, let alone like a Klingon ship at all? Not sure what to make of that, but it’s not as important as a good story, so I’m keeping an open mind. Showing us a redesigned Starship Enterprise…? In the prime timeline? As I hope I have established, I have been keeping an open mind & happy to have Star Trek back on television. The cast & crew really seem to get the philosohy of Star Trek when they are interviewed on TV, etc. I have enjoyed the episodes so far while understanding there are flaws & that is okay. But why was it “inevitable” that we would see the Enterprise on this show? I don’t see the inevitability of that. Better to avoid it, actually, for continuity sake. They went there anyway. Alright, could make for interesting storytelling & that’s the most important thing. I never wanted Kirk & Picard to meet either, but I didn’t get a say in that & went along for the ride & had fun. I was excited when Michael said, “USS Enterprise,” & when I saw a redesigned version of our beloved starship I was completely pulled out of the moment like an awful slap in the face. Sure, this version of the Enterprise looks cool. The producers reassure us that the artists on the show are fans & know the details like we do in the audience. That does not change how my heart sank when I saw the familiar but not familiar ship fly by. Why was this necessary? They respect the artists who came before & honor their work by making this redesign look a lot like the original. How does that make sense in this context?! You could have honored people like Matt Jefferies by proudly showing off his amazing design with maybe a few subtle changes to the texture & lighting to make it fit Discovery & that would have been okay. Each Star Trek series that has referred back to the original has maintained the integrity of the designs of TOS & the Enterprise…until now. Star Trek fans have always had pride in the original series & the original Starship USS Enterprise. It & she were groundbreaking & futuristic. Discovery producers: why was our beloved Enterprise not good enough for you? Yes, she was changed before, dramatically so, for the movies, but that was explained in universe as a refit. For now we have to wait until next season to learn what in story reason you may have for this redesign, if any. It is, after all, just a TV show. The quality of the stories is the most important thing here. As a gay man, I’m thrilled to have gay characters on Star Trek, but heartbroken that the writers killed — or at least seem to have killed — one of them off in a brutal way shown OVER & OVER. (When you consulted GLAAD about this did anyone mention secondary trauma?) I’m still waiting to see Paul moun for the loss of his partner & very frustrated that has been delayed. I don’t understand or like that at all. I’m not giving up on Discovery yet. There are some things I wish were different, but I’ll go along for the ride because I don’t want to be petty about less significant details. We Star Trek fans are a difficult bunch to please for sure. I have been defending this show when asked about it, even including… Read more »
Thank God it’s over. Lets hope funding for Season 2 never materialises.
After seeing that ship, are they still going to try to tell us this is Prime Universe? The same one as all the other Star Trek Series? No. It isn’t. If they were going to do an alternate Universe why not just use J.J. Abrams Films? Why lie to fans all the way to the end saying it was a Prime Series. We got the worst all all worlds in this mess.
I thought the point of a new show was to be different so why Run to the TOS Crew for season 2?
They can’t deliver on that promise.
If they could why didn’t they just do a Pike era Series to begin with.
Well season 2 is clearly happening, thats not in doubt.
And its just a visual update. Thats all it is. All its been. I can understand people may not like it but you can’t be shocked NOW that the Enteprise looks different. It was always going to because the original looks too out of place with the show we have now.
And why they run into Enteprise the show runners said that came after Fuller left. He probably wouldn’t have went this way if he was but I can understand why they did it because my guess is they are sick of hearing ‘how come we don’t see the Enterprise’ for the next five years. Now they can say they did it and move on later.
Exactly, it’s damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
Seeing the Enterprise now is perfect. They’ve proven the show’s characters can stand on their own, so NOW we can talk about the Enterprise in the room.
It’s going to be so great to see Pike and the 1701 crew, even if they end up chickening on Quinto, though really if he doesn’t want to do it, screw him. He has a chance to be a fixture in the greatest scifi franchise of the planet and he’s pulling a Sarah Michelle Gellar diva move like that? Buh bu bye! There will be a line around the block for people chomping at the bit to play Spock (and why not, we’ve seen three different Sareks and Amandas, we will probably need a third Pike, I take no issue with a third Spock).
I think Trekboi needs to get a life and a new show to follow. Spending your life with multiple posts criticizing all new forms of Star Trek seems pathological. Please move on, my friend….
kinda new here , but i am a fan although i think show needs some serious changes made in writers room and maybe even with the producers, i am just curious whats with all the beef with trekboi? IMO he does bring up some very valid points. where did the money go? and that invasion fleet in last episode you must admit was a joke. they didn’t even have 24 ships they at least should have had that many
Mmm … What is the idea of bringing Michael and Sarek together with the Enterprise if Spock does not appear? I hope they do not follow the same policy with Pike and Number One, Dr. Boyce or yeoman Colt.
And about that spin-off that Nicholas Meyer would be preparing … Naah!
I know some people were hanging on for a Giant Epic Multi Million Dollar war scene to end the series but just 5 ships vering off- Please Someone tell me where the Money went?
Where is the 7 Million an Episode? thats a combined 105 Million dollare- what did we get for it? 1 alien planet & about 10 ships, maybe.
And a lot of big sets.
Great isn’t it? We still can get a Star Trek finale without a space battle, without stupid Kung Fu fights and without a single phaser shot fired? Color me surprised.
Yeah the finale was about the principles of Star Trek, the Federation and Starfleet, and they did it all without firing a single phaser blast (IIRC).
Had there been a giant battle at the end people would have complained that it is a dumb war show.
I think the problem is it took 14 episodes to go from the start of this war to episode 15 to wrap up this war in 45 mins with a bomb inside the Klingon home world with a remote control blackmail by a outcast Klingon and Human ex spy.
The war should have been over when they destroyed the coffin ship but no, they came back from MU and the Klingons pretty much own everything and they have 1 to 2 episodes to throw a hail mary end the war td pass, not happy about that. Poor planning and waste of episodes.
Somethoughts it took 14 episodes to go from the start of this war to episode 15 to wrap up this war in 45 mins with a bomb inside the Klingon home world with a remote control blackmail by a outcast Klingon and Human ex spy.
Yep, it seemed like a hasty end, with a cheezy device. We do have the interesting prospect of, “How does L’Rell hang on to power with only this Qo’noS destroyer and TyVoq?”
And look at the last scene of the Klingons in the shadows, with L’Rell, contrasted with the beautifully realized Klingons and sets in episode 1.
I think the money ran out in the Mirror Universe
lol yep I can pinpoint exactly when it got bad, ie Lorca dying
Yeah sadly the ending of the season felt WAY too cheesy for me too. I don’t like the bomb blowing up the whole planet idea, it felt even worse when they gave it to L’rell who in one swoop was able to become leader of the Empire and end the ENTIRE war with it to boot. It felt clumsy and contrived. But I guess there was never going to be no way to really end it effectively with just two episodes. Many people thought they would just travel in time and stop it but then that would’ve ruined the entire season because then Burnham just goes back to being a first officer as if nothing happened. What would you learn from that? It would feel almost as bad as what they actually came up with but in all honesty they just needed more time to effectively end the story.
If you followed the story, it was clearly spelled out that the 24 Klingon houses were fractionalized and did not cooperate in their attacks. It was only one Klingon house that was about launch an attack on Earth
interesting that you watched the whole season and hated it at the same time. looser
I wouldn’t engage with Trekboi any more, DiscoTrek. Just ignore his tedious trolling and he’ll eventually go away.
I’ve stopped responding to trolls. No matter how many times they troll me I just ignore their baiting posts. That probably annoys them more than anything as they aren’t interested in conversation. Only in starting flame wars.
I will admit, I am loving the new looks of the Enterprise. The lighting of Discovery, makes me recall Gabriel Koerner’s Enterprise that he put up on Youtube years ago. But at the same time, the new look confuddles me. Are the Discovery writers intending to have the Enterprise get in a major battle that results in the refit that evolves her to how she looked in TOS? Or is this a complete reboot of the original Constitution-class?
Honestly, this is the one thing about Discovery that bothers me. They say we are indeed in the Prime Universe and yet to explain why the Klingons look different and why their ships look completely different than they did in the other Star Trek series. So I’m still hoping they are true to their word and the dots connect to TOS. But as a Star Trek fan and a fan of the Klingons, I hope it’s soon.
So none of the purists here have noticed yet that the picture of Spock above is not from ‘The Cage’? Its from ‘Where No Man Has Gone Before’, he’s wearing the gold uniform not the blue as he did in ‘The Cage’, and the collars we’re different as well
The best way of looking at it is that there are “real” (fictional) future events that have been adapted within various decades… different FX, different designs, visuals, fashion etc… The “real” future events are similar to the ones seen on-screen but look a tad different from either TOS, the TOS movies, DSC or the reboots. The shows and movies are just a limited account of the “real” future events…
It’s like looking at the historical events behind the Bible. There once was a real-life Jesus. But the tales about him have been written down decades later, not just the four official versions, but countless apocryphs. Dozens of movies have been made. Theater plays, audio plays, secondary literature, historical accounts, paintings, artwork… you name it. All of this only shows limited aspects of historical reality, from a specific zeitgeist, perspective, POV…
It’s how I look at Batman, Superman or Spidey these days. There’s only one Batman, but his “real” exploits have been told by various “evangelists” within different eras, for different audiences. There is no literal “canonicity”, just some timeless iconicity re-imagined for a different era.
The TMP Enterprise does not look like a two-year refit based on the TOS Enterprise either. It’s far more advanced. There is no visual canon…
Yeah, fundamentalism gets you nowhere. Ask T’kuvma :)
Personally I’m tired of all the bleating about differences in style.
That is a nice idea. I really do like it. But Trek has always been visually congruent, allowing for visual canon.
This is pretty much how I look at it as well Garth but I’ve never described it so well.
WOW!!! At the end of last nights episode I heard the words ENTERPRISE and CAPTAIN PIKE!! If the show ever got Bruce Greenwood to do a guest appearance as Pike I would think I’d died and gone to heaven. There’s no Trek character/actor I like better. Make it so.
The producers talk a lot about canon and needing to reconcile Discovery with all that has been established before, but they won’t come right out and say that the show is a visual reboot. They hint at it, but don’t say it. I wonder why? Is it only visually retconned for TOS, or the entire franchise? Or, is it their intent to also reconcile all the visual differences before the end of the series? Or will there still be a reveal that it is in a separate but near identical universe where the only difference is visual continuity? I’m cool with whatever the answer. It just seems like they could help all the disagreeing fans align if they were upfront and explicit with their intent.
I been saying forever what is wrong with calling it a reboot? Thats all it is, why are they so afraid to call it one? At least it will feel less confusing.
Because it’s not what is normally understood as being a reboot. Normally with a reboot, anything goes.
With DSC they chose to paint within the existing story and just update the visuals and tech so that it would still look like a plausible future to modern viewers, incorporating extensions of existing technology into the stories.
The Enterprise here looks a lot like the original, just modernized.
Yes. In a reboot, anything goes. Like giving Spock an adoptive sister or decimating the Star fleet or discovering phenomena that no one is aware of later. Discovery doesn’t do any of that, right?
No that’s what you can do in a prequel/midquel. You paint new surprising things inside the established lines. To you does nothing exist in Star Trek unless it is SHOWN or mentioned on screen? We never see anybody using a toilet on Star Trek, are we to assume humans don’t poop in the future?They have been very careful not to contradict canon while still surprising us and playing with certain expectations we had.
Instead of just assuming a natural progression from Enterprise to TOS, we now got a new story that further showed how we get there.
Yes. Paint within the established lines is required in prequels. These guys did not do that. They made major universe affecting changes that did not coincide with what was already established.
This season did not provide any kind of insight or revelation for how we got to TOS. Enterprise did a much better job of that.
The ONLY thing that doesn’t completely tie in with canon at the moment is the Spore Drive. They already talked about keeping it quiet due to the dimension hopping capabilities, though yeah I would also prefer some more permanent way of getting rid of it since its tactical applications are too great for people like Section 31 to ignore. And frankly I wouldn’t worry about that, it is literally just one line of technobabble away from being sorted whenever the writers decide they’re done with it.
We don’t have any indication in canon sources that contradict the war itself. You’re welcome to bring anything I missed to my attention.
As for how we got to TOS, DSC literally JUST showed it to us. The Federation got tested like never before. And it survived by people electing to do the right thing when the chips were down and reject hate and vengeance, to seek a better path without sacrificing your ideals at the altar of convenience.
It’s classic Star Trek, like The Corbomite Maneuver.
Enterprise did a good job of this as well, with their focus on brokering peace and cooperation, opposing an outside opponent like the Romulans.
But DSC chose to focus on our choices where we turn when the going gets rough.
Do we turn towards pragmatism? Manipulate those around us to do our bidding?
Do we turn towards retribution? Indiscriminately kill innocents to hurt those who have/are about to hurt us?
Or do we chose to try to truly understand our adversaries, to exhaust all other options before we make a last stand?
The spore drive was a bad literary device because the instant it was brought up we knew it couldn’t work because of the time frame they set the show in. But the massive Klingon war does indeed violate canon. Perhaps not on the written screenplay of any TOS episodes but it is greatly inferred such a conflict never happened. There are plenty of reasons to support this from lines of dialog and appeared and didn’t appear. There are tons of questions left over as well. Did the Klingons simply abandon the conquered territory back to the Federation? They had to if Federation territory as implied in TOS is to be believed. If they did it does not seem like a Klingon thing to do at all. We could go on and on with the tenuous at best continuity issues they created for themselves by placing the show in the time frame they did.
Just showing a Constitution Class Starship, in this case the Enterprise, does NOT take us from Discovery to TOS in any way shape or form. The ship was already mentioned by name early in the season and THAT doesn’t take the show to TOS either. The Federation got tested and got their arse handed to them. They scampered away like cockroaches hoping beyond hope the Klingons won’t band together and finish the job tomorrow or the next day. It’s a very very foolish solution that only works in the saccriney world of Discovery. Corbomite Maneuver was NOTHING like this. At all. That was Kirk playing a huge gamble because he really had no other option. In DSC’s case, they HAD another option. An unpleasant one but the only one that ensured their survival. THAT is classic Trek. It’s Archer nearly killing a guy to get information and hating himself for it. Or creating a new life form doomed to die because he needed his chief engineer for a greater cause. It’s Sisko taking part in an illegal and immoral rouse to change the course of a war going badly. Discovery’s solution only worked because the writers willed it to. The logic of the situation they created would not allow such a move to succeed. At best it would buy the Federation a little time. And maybe the show would have been better for it by using that time to device a better survival tactic to get their captured territory back and at least create a stalemate out of a war that there was no evidence whatsoever had happened. At least to the extent that show took it.
“Perhaps not on the written screenplay of any TOS episodes but it is greatly inferred such a conflict never happened.”
It may be “greatly inferred” (by Kirok, at any rate). It is never *implied* in the TOS episodes. There’s a difference.
Indeed, several TOS episodes imply otherwise, that there *was* a conflict with the Klingons.
The time to bring it up was obviously Errend of Mercy. Give the viewers some backstory. Just as they did in Balance of Terror. But there was nothing except some lines about how the relations between the governments were currently reaching the breaking point. But no history of war. And certainly nothing as huge as we just saw on DSC.
James T. Kirk, to the Organians: “I’ve seen what the Klingons do to worlds like yours. I’ve seen the death camps.” Doesn’t sound like his early career was spent making first contact. And in “A Private Little War,” why did young Kirk survey a primitive planet that happened to be in such a strategic location?
Yes. That line supports what I said. But in no way does it support the existence of an earlier conflict that resulted in such devastation to starfleet.
Maybe we’ll see more Klingon/Federation conflict in S2, because as you say, I can’t see the Klingons just giving up all the territories they conquered.
I see L’Rell having to manage many conflicts within Klingon society.
We don’t have anything in canon sources to contradict the war because there is nothing about a war at all previously. The Phase II episode Kitumba adapted by New Voyages was previously considered a slightly different path the Klingons could have took in the franchise (had TOS been relaunched in the 1970s instead of TNG) and that is NOTHING compared to how different Discovery was from the TOS/STIII/TNG/DS9 canon Klingons.
Yes that’s right, there are no toilets in Trek and canon has now clearly been established showing that urinating against a wall is how the 23rd Centurians do it.
Ummm. There are toilets and it is canon. They are in the blueprints of the ship (considered canon along with the bowling alley) and Kirk sat on one in the brig in Trek 5.
Ummm I was continuing Haukes joke about nobody pooping in Trek. Not even the dumbest fan would genuinely argue that they don’t actually have toilets and most people don’t need to read one of Rick Sternbach’s technical manual’s to realise that ;-)
Oh trust me, Corinthian7… there ARE fans dumb enough to argue that judging by comments I’ve read in the last few months.
Or giving Spock a brother. Oh wait, that wasn’t a reboot.
Thumbs up, Captain R!
Ditto with the thumbs up Cap!
It was a marsh-melon induced dream.
I get what you’re saying but lets be honest in many ways most of it feels so different enough it basically is a reset. The fact that they created a Klingon war in an era where none was ever stated kind of proves that. Then entering the MU when we know that wasn’t suppose to happen until much later.
But yes they do try to keep basic canon but they really could’ve just called it a reboot and I don’t think anyone would’ve blinked. And then that could’ve explained things like the spore drive and they could’ve kept it through the entire show (which they still might anyway).
@Tiger2 The spore drive is the hardest to reconcile but there’s no reason they can’t make it fit. I was in the camp that felt a war on the scale portrayed was a major stretch of canon but the references to historic conflict with the Klingons were so vague that it doesn’t actually break canon IMO. The thing is with a prequel is that it still has to break new ground and surprise us. If they only referenced events we’d already heard of and only then in the most obvious ways we’d soon get bored. Just because the show challenges our preconceptions doesn’t mean we should abandon canon.
Normally with a remake anything goes but the term “reboot” is a lot broader and is often used to describe relaunching or course correcting an IP within the existing continuity.
I agree Tiger. I see no reason why they just don’t say it’s a modern day reboot. Do they think they will offend the fans? Non fans likely won’t care. (If any are watching)
Exactly. I don’t understand why the idea is so toxic to them? Star Trek wouldn’t exactly be the first to do it and then they could do whatever they wanted. I get for some fans they want all the canon and history but if more fans are moaning how later shows is only retconing and ruining that canon then maybe its time to start over.
And then fans can finally get a TRUE version of TOS again where they can start from scratch. If you keep the shows in the PU the closest you will ever get are the KT films and since the last one bombed you may not get another one for a long time if at all.
There will never be peace amongst Star Trek fans @Tiger2 we can’t even decide if we’re Trekkies or Trekkers. Personally I am in the camp that wants to see Star Trek continue within the existing continuity but when the inevitable happens and they remake it I’ll still watch.
Because it’s a VISUAL reboot, not a CANON [character, events] reboot.
It’s just the look of the thing.
Exactly and I’m perfectly fine with that but I guess I can see why some others are not.
No what I’m saying is just do a reboot, period. These are already new characters so what difference does it make? And again they have already squeezed in new canon with Sarek and Spock by creating a sibling. Lets be honest thats basically what you would do in a reboot in the first place.
I’d say it’s a soft reboot. They’ve updated the look and made it more contemporary but it still exists within the existing canon.
Yeah soft reboot is a good word for it Corinthian7. Thats how I thought of the KT films as well, they just had an in-universe explanation of how they did it.
Exactly, they didn’t want to throw away over 4 decades of canon but they didn’t want to be tied to it either.
I suspect that the producers think that it’s obvious that it is a visual reboot- which at this juncture, it is.
But they HAVE said that it was a VISUAL reboot time and again. It’s no secret. Unlike with the KT reboots, the overall PU events are still canon, but the designs, FX etc. are deliberately modernized for present-day audiences. Klingons, the Enterprise design, uniforms etc… Don’t expect those items to be 100% compatible with previous installments. This is not going to happen.
Because is not a visual reboot. They just decanonized visuals. That means the other series’ visuals are NOT canon, and DSC’s visuals are NOT canon as well. They all are artistical interpretations of canon events. But you can perfectly imagine DSC’s events occurres in cardboard sets and the Enterprise was a different model for each of the takes, if that pleases you.
And yet Enterprise and DS9 both present the original Constitution class ship designs as well as sets, costumes and props/
The haters are out in force today, giggling in the corner to themselves, not realizing they’re in the minority.
Re: real Trek fans aren’t excited about next season; we see the old “you’re not a true fan if” thrown around a lot these days but let me ask you: should we really be setting out barometer of fandom based on hating something? How is that for Gene’s Vision?
The truth is, anyone can be a fan. A racist can be a fan, as much as I might hate that idea and shake my head. Enjoying Discovery and being excited about next season doesn’t mean someone is not a Trek fan, or not a “true” Trek fan. Get over yourselves.
If you hate DSC, fine. Move along. We’re a full season and 6 months into Discovery, if you’re still coming in to rain on the parade with comments like “not if you’re a Trek fan” then you’re just a childish troll.
i appreciate that some of the fans who hated Discovery no longer post here. They realized at some point this show wasn’t for them, and stopped wasting their time on it.
As for my opinion of the show, I think it was a solid, if flawed first season. The story was all over the place, they spent a bit too long in the mirror universe, and replications was sloppy and rushed. But the positives more than outweigh the negatives, with strong performances and excellent characters, and classic trek themes.
Re: written by children; I think many fans seem to forget how mediocre or just plain awful much of past Trek has been. From terrible TOS episodes seemingly written in a day, several of the films that wouldn’t pass the Sunday-movie-of-the-week test, an entire first season of TNG that belongs in a clearance DVD bin, and episodes of Voyager and Enterprise that feel like… well jeez they’re so awful and misguided in their conception I wonder if humans even produced them.
Continuity had always been changing too. I remember a website in the mid 90s dedicated to tracking continuity issues within Trek, series to series, episode to episode, even scene to scene. Me and others use to enjoy coming up with explanations to explain why a historical event was said to be in the 2020s in one episode, but the 2150s in another; why an alien race looked one way in this series, and totally different in another; why this flashbacks used different uniforms from the movies.
I don’t know when that kind of fun fandom turned sour, but I strongly suspect Enterprise going to such great lengths to explain the Klingons was a part of it.
As for the cliffhanger, even though I’m not a fan of The Original Series, even I got goosebumps seeing the 1701 and hearing that theme.
And the big E looked better than ever.
How about you stop judging those with opinions different than your own. People are allowed to dislike this show.
If you’ve read any of his other posts that would seem to be an impossibility.
I always prefer to focus on what I love about Trek, including this episode. I don’t worry about hating anyone who might not agree.
Just saw the image of the Enterprise and all I could do was shake my head. There was no reason to change the design that drastically. Star Trek fans work on this show….yeah right.
Actually this re-imagination fits far better with the line of the Refit TMP connie. I love it so much more.
The refit TMP Enterprise is still my absolute favorite and the version we were presented last night falls in line with that design (though I’m not a fan of the impulse engines).
Agreed! There is just no way the classic Enterprise was “refit” to look like the TMP Enterprise. This new version of the Enterprise looks like the precursor to the refit ship in the movies.
The classic Enterprise fits inside of the refit just fine. The Warp drive gets replaced, and everything else gets an extra exterior layer is all it takes.
Comparing the classic ship with the refit ship from TMP, it would have had to have been stripped down to just a skeleton and had the skeleton reshaped. Both primary and secondary hulls are different. It would have made more sense to just decommission the older Enterprise and just build her from scratch with the new specs. The Enterprise on DSC looks more like the refit ship from TMP that would eventually get upgrades to the deflector and warp nacelles and minor changes to the hull.
I agree Nebula: I think its likely that the producers are intending the show to be a visual reboot of TOS, but not the rest of the franchise. This doesn’t completely explain the radical redesign of the Klingons, but there are probably other ways to explain that. At the same time they are honoring the general appearance (and sounds) of TOS while giving it a modern look. This seems reasonable to me. The TOS aesthetics are not at all believable based on the rate of current technological advancement. I think it would be cool if they re-mastered an episode, or even just a few scenes of TOS (maybe the Cage) to show us how the rest of TOS should “really” look.
reminds me of Transformers fans saying how they changed optimus prime for the movies. I get its different but its still 90% similair and its a visual update to match 2018 star trek discovery style
They might as well have painted flames on the Connie.
I have no problems with the new look of the Enterprise. I get that it’s over 50 years on now and while they may want to try to remain true to canon in terms of events, they also want to make the look of the show more up to date. It looks familiar yet more contemporary.
What I do have a problem with is the incredibly uneven writing. I’ve enjoyed Discovery’s first season overall but last night’s finale was, from a dramatic standpoint a dud and an incredibly anti-climactic way to end its first season. Given the stakes, the tone was all wrong with some pretty bad attempts at humor, the introduction and resolution of the situations was rushed and hard to follow and everything came to a sudden finish so quickly that the scene at Federation HQ felt trite instead of earned. The direction and editing was some of the worst I’ve seen all season and the episode just had a rushed, sloppy feel to it.
It’s telling that, for me at least, the only thing I took away from the episode was that last scene and the classic Alexander Courage theme.
Discovery’s first season was plagued by rewrites and staff shuffles. The fact that they could get some sort of coherent story out of it is somewhat surprising.
It look like they changed gears at least 3 times trying to shift away from one arc to another to tell the stories they wanted with the limited time they had. Makes me wonder what they could have done if they had 24 eps available to them.
I’ve liked it overall even with some of the silly hickups.
I liked it overall as well; I just think they sometimes tried to be a little too clever for their own good.
As I wrote elsewhere, the involvement of Akiva Goldsman as a writer and director for the last episode had me worried and, for me at least, my fears were borne out. Goldsman has been behind some pretty crummy adaptations, especially recently (Childhood’s End, Dark Tower).
Likewise, Alex Kurtzman may be a capable producer but from a storytelling standpoint his stuff leaves a lot to be desired. The best he and Orci could come up with for ST09 and STID were a couple of borderline facfic mashups of pre-existing stories.
I really think, from a writing perspective at least, that they are the weak links on the show and I hope they will be reduced to more supervisory roles for season 2 and leave the writing and directing to more capable people.
Thematically it was all very strongly tied together.
We start with Burnham going it alone and starting a mutiny, and Starfleet gets it’s butt handed to them.
The Federation starts to compromise its principles putting their faith into Lorca, who’ll “shake things up and get things done”, who turned out to JUST be in it form himself and to Make the Empire Great Again”.
Driven by guilt, Burnham saves Emperor Georgiou, and in an even more desperate act, turn to her for advice how to defeat the Klingons before realizing that you can’t defend your way of living by throwing your principles over board.
Showing the Klingons that the Federation has no interest in subjugating them (by literally having them dead to rights and then handing them the power back) and creating a connection with them on a cultural level by showing honor and respect, the Federation and Klingons cease to be “other” to eachother, and setting the stage for the respectful tension we see in TOS.
“Respectful tension”? They were about to go to WAR when the Organians intervened.
Well they stopped launching random terror attacks and scorching entire planets, didn’t they?
Since when did the UFP sponsor random terror attacks on Klingons? I guess annihilating an entire planet happened or was thought about given the existence of General Order 24. But that’s about as far as we know.
I meant the Klingons. They mentioned some colony world being wiped out by Klingons igniting the atmosphere last episode IIRC.
Well, the Organians were the ones who put a stop to that. At least major conflicts. Fights caused by noncorporial entities on ships with swords I guess fall under the Organian radar. :)
Kirok It wasn’t sanctioned by the UFP. It was Star Fleet
The first few episodes and the last few tied together beautifully. The ones in between . . .
You know…. seeing their version of the Enterprise, I have mixed feelings. I’m not caught up on the show because I’m not paying for AllAccess just to watch it. But seeing the screen caps and the comments from Harberts… Actually it doesn’t look bad. A decent update of the design. My problem comes from the fact that they could have just said this is a reboot and eliminated so much controversy. They didn’t though. Noting how some fans will love and some will hate is fine, but this is… It’s like being told someone has your mother’s recipe for a lasagna, and is going to make it for you. They then mention “well I don’t like these items, so I left them out. Oh, and I feel red meat is unhealthy so I used turkey instead of beef. Also I’m not really that into lasagna, so it’s now more of a goulash. But otherwise it’s exactly like what you had as a kid! Enjoy! It’s an issue that isn’t exclusive to Trek, seems to be an issue with many franchises these days. Anyway, I still hope maybe I can get a box set and judge the whole thing on its merits.
This is a good analogy.
I keep trying different comfort food restaurants in an effort to “find” Grandma’s macaroni and cheese, but it just isn’t out there.
There was a particular combination of ingredients at a particular time and place by a particular person.
I don’t have her recipe. I can reminisce, recall with pleasure, but the circumstances will never be the same.
Meanwhile I make my own version and am pleased. It’s not the same but it’s quite enjoyable.
When it really SHOULD be no problem, duh.
I liked the show, I can bear with some inconsistencies here and there, but the Klingon redesign and the writers apparently overthrowing all that has been meticulously set up in ENT still doesn’t sit well with me. In fact, I just find the design ridiculous. They look unpleasant but not in the least intimidating OR (and that should’ve been a consideration from the get go) relatable. DISCO Klingons (always barring Mary Chieffo’s L’Rell!) look like a bunch of actors who can hardly see out of their costumes, wear rubber hands and can’t figure out how to deliver dialogue through those fang-like teeth.
The design for the Klingons wasn’t perfect, but the story wouldn’t have worked as well with the smooth Klingons from TOS and post-Enterprise. They are still there, just currently sidelined. There seemed to be a few of them in the episode here and there (not all of those alien humanoids in the episode had green skin!) and the second issue of the comic shows plenty of Klingons with hair (and when you put hair on the DSC Klingons they start to look a LOT like updated TNG Klingons).
My curiosity for the comments of the intransigent fanboys brought me here. Loved 1701’s redesign. It couldn’t exist, in this story, if its visuals remained the ship we know and love.
That would be the source of my complaints. They say “this is canon, Prime Timeline!” but have to make changes to the source material to adapt… If they’d just said ‘eh, this is rebooted, unbroken ground’ then I have no problems. Reboots happen. Is it a silly thing to be irritated at? Very probably. Still, I’m not required to be logical. Heh. Looking st the screen caps though, it certainly doesn’t look awful.
100% the opposite. The attraction of the Trek universe is that it is supposed to be a “history of the future” — NOT endless reboots. In other words, the *story* is a coherent whole, not the “alternative worlds” junk that comic book franchises apparently pull every few years. I can’t stand reboots, basically disliked the JJ Abrams movies, and am thrilled the writers made the decision that DISCO would take place in the Prime Timeline.
By contrast, yes, special effects technology marches on. And it’s a television show that needs to find an audience. Which is why a *visual* reboot makes perfect sense.
How the war started and ended was illogical. Both seem nonsense.
If you want to do Klingons, should be fighting over honor or resources. Klingons do not like being blackmailed, L’Rell would have been killed on the spot and eaten for trying to hold 24 houses hostage.
I hope for season 2 they do more sci fi episodes with less twists and death and shock.
@somethoughts — care to elaborate? I don’t really have a problem with how the war started — that actually parallels with what we’ve seen in our real world events. A disinfranchised leader seeks to bring unity by starting a war. But once killed, there chaos as competing houses fragment and are out for only themselves.
The ending I will give you. It seemed a cheap way to end hostilities, and unite the houses, and one that seems doomed to failure one way or the other.
It does seem doomed to fail at some point very soon. And then what does a decimated rebuilding UFP do? They got their rears handed to them the first time. They’d get whooped in short order a 2nd time. It feels like the only way out was to nuke Kronos like they planned. It really does.
I thought wars happen over resources, and religion.
Why do people go to war?
We can narrow it down to two reasons:
to better their way of life
to protect their way of life
Did the Federation in any way threaten the Klingons with the above at the battle of the binary stars?
Well, I’m sure there are plenty of people in the Klingon Empire that thought the Augment virus and the disfigurement the cure caused was a Federation conspiracy of some sort.
So when T’kuvma manipulates events to make it seem like the Federation is amassing an invasion force and then make a show of wanting “peace” when that concept is pretty alien to Klingons, I don’t see a problem with it.
@somethoughts — no, I don’t agree that’s the only two reasons people go to war. Sometimes they do it for power, and nothing else. The corrupt African warlords, or South American dictators are prime examples. Maybe even the Nazis (though one could argue Hitler thought his way was better than the any other way). Or they do it for resources. Why did America go to war in Iraq? Was it to protect Americans? Was it to offer the Iraqis a better way of life? No the US wanted power in the region and access to resources. I mean maybe you can distill even this to your two points. But it seems overly simplistic. Why did the Romans, or the Mongolians, or the Ottomans seek to conquer most of the know world? Or even the British?
24 fragmented and individual houses don’t make for a strong unified culture, all working for the common good. Imagine if the United States had no central government, but rather 50 states all competing against each other? One could say the South was fighting to protect their way of life, and the North was fighting to better their way of life, but in the end it was about unifying the nation, and being stronger as a whole on the world stage than individually. Iraq was about power and control, and used the common fear of terrorism as a unifying goal. It doesn’t matter if the Federation actually threatened the Klingons, if a Klingon wanted to control an Empire with no interest in reunification (with or without the goal of becoming a stronger society), he’d tell them they were a threat.
Complainers are gonna complain . Speaking of which, has anyone nailed down a definitive air date for season two yet?
Sept 2019 I believe
hopefully not that late. I’ve heard early 2019 being bandied about.
Enjoyed majority of season 1, cant wait for season 2.
The good, talented actors, great new characters, Captain Georgiou, Saru, Stamets, Tilly, Dr C, Michael, Lorca, Ash, L’Rell, Kol, uniforms, Discovery ship, playing in MU, USS Enterprise visual update, the next best to refit seen in TMP. Majority of episodes was good. Potential for being the best series but need to be more focused on what it wants to be about. There seems to be too many chefs in the kitchen at times as seen in the last episode 15 of season 1.
The bad, Michael Burnham Marge Simpson hair, her hair in episode 1 and 2 was best. Klingon story and arc., spore drive, some fx shots, the whole spy arc with ash and voq, T’Kuvma, MU Lorca – PU Lorca with PTSD looking for redemption would have been better, too many nonsensical deaths – Landry, Dr C, Captain Georgiou, Lorca. They killed the best characters they had going for them! Episode 15 upon reflection had a good theme in federation principles trumping genocide and shortcuts, but ironic is writers took a short cut to end the war with a nonsense blackmail plot device.
Wow agreed with nearly everything you said here! I won’t add much other than I would’ve liked for the MU story to go on a bit longer and still don’t love the uniforms.
But overall they probably did more good than bad, but the stuff that was bad really stood out IMO. I’m still looking forward to season 2 as well!
So in season 2 why can’t the Kligon’s just deactivate the bomb?
Or destroy the trigger if it cannot be deactivated?
Since they know about the bomb and trigger, what is stoping them from just restarting the war after removing the threat of the bomb?
exactly terrible plot device
USA had to nuke Japan to end the war, the ends justify the mean.
What’s has that got to do with the problem of why can’t the Kligons not just deactivate the bomb/the trigger and restart the war?
I am saying Federation should have followed through to attack Kronos instead of some dumb blackmail plot to end the war. As you pointed out it doesnt make any logical sense.
Logic and the show seems to have a difficult relationship with each other.
Such as I still don’t understand why when the federation got the spore drive up and running on the discovery they did not immediately use the drive to attack the kligon empire’s vital military resources such as their production centres of energy/weapons/ships/etc and then eventually their civilian targets.
The war should have be over in a couple of weeks using the spore drive. Long before Kol decided to go and salvage the cloaking device on the coffin ship. Which for some unexplained reason had been left to gather dust on the battlefield for six months unclaimed by either side in the war.
Federation war planner should have used the Discovery to cripple key Klingon resource areas until the Klingons are out of dilithium. Keep attacking weapon centers and key outposts till Klingons can no longer wage war. Or peace through a larger threat.
Or the writers could have created a show with actual moral complexity due to the possible use of the spore drive in the kligon federation war.
Rather than the Kligon’s being murderous monsters they could have actually been a warrior race who fough with honour against the federation and did not slaughter civilians, but who would not surrender or sue for peace even after the discovery had crippled their military resources.
The moral question could have been, is it moral to try and achieve peace through the discovery attacking kligon civilian targets by using the spore drive in order to end the war for once and for all. Or is the endless limited war directed by the Kligons against the federation a better moral choice than killing innocent kligon civilians in cold blood in the hopes of ending the war.
That would have been real shades of grey rather than what we got.
Shades of grey was how the season began, and would have been an excellent guidepost for the season’s end.
Marja what did you think of the finale? Did you like it? I’m guessing no based on some of your thoughts. I thought it was OK but yes so much of it felt deflated after all the build up we got for a season.
You make some good point Isabella and why the war arc was so bland and boring. You’re right the Discovery should’ve been the big key to attacking the Kligon’s military defenses and yet we never saw them do any of that. In fact we never saw them use the spore drive in any tactical way until literally the finale. They had this crazy device but then did nothing substantial with it outside of showing up to fend off an attack when they could.
I think L’Rell with the help of Tyler will try for unification and peace. All your points are valid though.
Well there certainly are different opinions on that. The military did actually briefly consider a demonstration of the nuclear bomb at sea instead of dropping them, but feared the bomb might fizzle, and embolden the Japanese to not surrender.
Personally, I view the choice to drop those bombs as one of the most shameful acts the US ever committed.
At the risk of going off into a tangent, I view the dropping of that bomb, while horrible to Japan, saved countless thousands of American lives. Lives that surely would have been lost invading Japan. Which was going to happen if those bombs weren’t dropped. Terrible things happen in war. It’s why we try to avoid it. There were a LOT more shameful acts the us committed. With far less reasoning than saving American soldiers lives. Like the trail of tears for one.
BTW, the Japanese were told we had the bombs and would use them if they didn’t surrender.
Yeah, that was a weak resolution all around, not to mention that Starfleet has access to the trigger and a Mirror Universe baddie has full knowledge of how to trigger it as well.
Either the Kligons can never be a threat to the federation again due to fear that the federation would activate the bomb because for some reason the bomb cannot be deactivated nor moved. Thereby establishing peace between the federation and the kligon empire going forward.
Or the Kligons would just switch the bomb off and resume conquering the federation.
The purpose wasn’t to defeat the Klingons by destroying them, but by showing that the Federation is trustworthy.
They basically showed the Klingons that the Federation was fully capable of destroying them, but chose not to. That T’kuvma was mistaken when he claimed the Federation wanted to wipe them out.
But if the purpose of the action in regards to the bomb was to show the Kligons that the federation is trustworthy, that the federation does not want to wipe them out.
How does that fit in with TOS? Since the Kligons still don’t trust the federation in TOS. Did the Kligon’s forget the trustworthyness of the federation? Less than around 8 years before?
Like how the Kligon’s in discovery forgot the trustworthyness of the humans from enterprise i.e. Archer stopping a civil war and saving millions possibly billions of Kligons from a virus.
Are the Kligons just a forgetful race? In which case won’t the war just restart because they will forget the trustworthyness of the federation?
The difference is that the Klingons now see the Federation as an equal, a competitor so to speak, not a threat to their very existence or just a bunch of primitives to annex.
With Klingons not being thankful to the Enterprise NX 01 crew, think about how few people would have known about the Suliban plot. And half of them (like Duras) were probably rather angry at them for exposing and meddling in their affairs.
And there’s no way the Klingon Government would have come clean about what caused the Augment virus and how Archer and gang saved countless lives. The general populace is more likely to have thought of the disfigurement of a sizable part of the population as a human plot to destabilize the Empire, which it seemed to have done regardless of intention (and in turn could have given fruit to T’kuvma’s hatred of the Federation).
But using that kind of logic there is no reason for the kligon government to admit that the federation were involved in the bomb plot. So there would be no reason for the Kligons to think the federation was trustworthy nor an equal.
There is no reason for the Kligons not to disarm the bomb and restart the war especially since the federation fleet is on its knees.
Why would the Kligons turn down the chance of finishing off such a vulnerable and weak enemy like the one that federation represents in discovery?
L’Rell would probably be killed and the war would be restarted.
Isabella,those are all good points. It makes zero sense based on what we know of their culture that Kinongs wouldn’t rebel against L’Rell the instant she said, let’s leave the weak and defeated Federation alone. They would demand they finish them off.
Sadly have to agree. The Klingons we know wouldn’t have stopped over one threat. And maybe they may for a few days before killing L’rell and starting up again. But maybe the story isn’t over yet either. The producers all but said L’rell will be back next season so there may be more happening with this but as it stands now the resolution felt ridiculous.
Isabella Are the Kligons just a forgetful race? In which case won’t the war just restart because they will forget the trustworthyness of the federation?
The human race is forgetful in that way. Wars are started, fought, and ended, then other factions start other wars.
Perhaps Klingons are forgetful in the same way.
Season 2 wishlist
1 PU Lorca
2 Captain Pike
3 Spock and Burnham sibling story
4 Other aliens other than Klingons
5 Classic exploration
6 Sci fi twilight zone stuff lets discover strange new worlds
7 better fx less flat shots
8 flashbacks to Georgiou and Michael 7 yrs – shouldnt have killed Georgiou just to give Michael guilt for s1 15 episodes
9 good Admirals, sick of seeing Insurrection, Stid flawed admirals
10 less pc liberal stuff but more allegories
12 ash tyler
13 time travel
14 uss discovery back story who built it, why etc
15 huge alien structures and artifacts, using tri corders instead of phasers
16 new hair style for Michael
17 bring back Dr C
18 Data and Picard
It’s way too early for Data and Picard but maybe we will see some connection to Soong. Perhaps another ancestor. As for ‘less pc liberal stuff’ you do realise it’s Trek right? They’ve always been about ‘pc liberal stuff’ and often the allegories are almost nonexistent
I only ask for less, not none 😁
1 PU Lorca
Read Drastic Measures
2 Captain Pike
3 Spock and Burnham sibling story
Read Desperate Hours
4 Other aliens other than Klingons
5 Classic exploration
6 Sci fi twilight zone stuff lets discover strange new worlds
All but confirmed by the writers on After Trek
7 better fx less flat shots
Hmm, I thought they did a great job with that.
8 flashbacks to Georgiou and Michael 7 yrs – shouldnt have killed Georgiou just to give Michael guilt for s1 15 episodes
Desperate Hours again, and likely the Saru novel “Fear Itself” coming in June will flesh this out
9 good Admirals, sick of seeing Insurrection, Stid flawed admirals
Useless Admirals has been a Trek Trope since TOS.
10 less pc liberal stuff but more allegories
I literally can’t even.
Would be hard to fit a proper first encounter with the Gorn and not contradict “Arena”. The skeleton being found in some archeological dig or whatnot is ok, but an episode where the crew encounter them for real?
12 ash tyler
Was confirmed on After Trek. Likely to make an appearence in the comic books as well.
13 time travel
Yeah that would be neat.
14 uss discovery back story who built it, why etc
What else do we need to know about it? Science vessel, testbed for Spore drive.
15 huge alien structures and artifacts, using tri corders instead of phasers
Agreed. And we are all set up for that now.
16 new hair style for Michael
Nah, she has gorgeous hair!
17 bring back Dr C
18 Data and Picard
Now THAT would be excessive fan service.
Overall I enjoyed the show but it is hard to reconcile it with what we know of the Prime Universe. That is my struggle with this show. It might have been better to have it take place in the ‘Kelvin’ Universe but from what we know of the ‘Kelvin’ continuity, I am not sure it would fit. It would take someone really special to play Spock. I could see a young Spock. I would love to see a young Uhura. I always felt like Nichelle Nichols Uhura was criminally underdeveloped.
I wonder if Tyler will wind up being the continuity explanation for the Klingon look in the original series? Remember Worf’s line about women not being allowed to serve on the High Council and then Star Trek 6 had Gorkon’s daughter take over? I would imagine L’Rell’s reign won’t be long.
I am struggling with Klingons owning 80% of Federation space and they withdraw over a terrible black mail Kronos plot device. There is much to love in Discovery but too many easy way outs.
That’s a HUGE issue to me as well. Ok. I give you the war stops and attacks immediately cease. But do they give back what they have conquered? Is there some sort of treaty here? There would seem to be MAJOR consequences not addressed here that get completely ignored in TOS.
If you set the show in the KU or say it is another reboot, then fine. Not retcon necessary. But they keep saying it’s PU and they keep giving us inconsistencies.
ya agreed, it is incredibly difficult to write for a show set before TOS, so why would they try. Pigeon holed with handcuffs in a coffin. Prequels never work.
Thank you! Yes prequels rarely work for a reason. Its funny this entire show was set around the Klingon war and all it told me is why this plot line should’ve never happened. It really doesn’t fit into existing canon. Sure, as usual, if you want to make it fit in your head, it can but its no way has it ever been remotely suggested the Klingons invaded Federation space the way they did. The point of TOS was there was a cold war vibe, that an all out war could break out but the conflicts were small and contained. If the Klingons invaded that much we would never heard the end of it.
Yeah that is a big one for me as well. I just don’t see any evidence in TOS of the Klingon Empire having controlled 80% of the Federation (even for a brief time). It would have been a devastating historical event. Sure, there was animosity between the two powers in TOS, but nothing like what would have resulted from a massive war.
That’s not what they said though. The Klingons took 20% of the Federation territory and destroyed a third of the fleet.
The tactical map we’ve seen only shows the Klingon Front, i.e. the area of the Federation closest to Klingon space. So just looking at the map, it seems like almost all of the Federation is overrun, but all the space “behind” Earth facing away from the Empire was untouched.
I see no reason for the smooth Klingons from TOS to be a problem, we just haven’t seen any until this episode.
Look closely at some of the background characters in the Orion city. Some very TOS looking humanoids around (look for the non-green human-looking characters).
I’m sure the creative team just didn’t want to confuse the new viewers with that detail and preferred the Klingons to look more “other” so that they’d be easier to “hate” by the audience, increasing the payoff when the peace is made.
Yeah that just felt so ridiculous. The Klingons ALL just turn back lol. Wasn’t the point the houses were all split up? And yet we are to believe every force pulls themselves back because one Klingon threaten to blow up the planet. It felt waaaaaay too easy and convenient. We kept wondering how could they wrap up this war in one episode after what they set up and sadly the answer is they couldn’t, not in any real plausible way.
Again – there a lot of things they’ve gotten wrong with this series. But they’ve still managed to revitalize the franchise. And now they’ve tied it back into canon. I’d rather have my Trek fresh and flawed, rather than rehashed and tired. I’ll be back for Season 2.
Arathorn, they tied it back to canon? How?
Go over to Trekcore. They do a cannon comparison post for each episode talking about just this.
Might be worth a look. Is it just fan speculation?
Funny that they keep bring up the “Spock never mentions his adoptive sister”. That bit is not on the canon radar at all as it has already been established that he was never disposed to discuss matters of a personal nature, even to his closest friends. On the canon front, I’m more concerned with how this Klingon war fits in to what we saw in TOS. Still waiting for that one. And I’m guessing we will be waiting for some time as it was never even eluded to in this article.
Yep that complaint always struck me as silly. Kirk didn’t even know Sarek was Spock’s father in Journey to Babel.
By “they” do you mean the fans who kept asking over and over before the first episode aired why we’ve never heard of Michael Burnham? I feel like she was created because the writers didn’t see a problem with it. I kept hearing that questions from actual Star Trek fans. Totally agree with you though.
The war thing could explain Starfleet feeling much smaller in TOS than it does in Discovery. They were rebuilding and exploring different areas of space since they’d lost territory. Lots of places they can go with that plot point.
“They” as in the writers of the article. They kept bringing that up as if it was a real conundrum. But it really wasn’t.
There is no evidence whatsoever the Star fleet in TOS is smaller. None. In fact, it felt pretty big to me. Which is another inconsistency between the two shows. Although I guess 9 years is enough time to rebuild… but still. It felt like the fleet hadn’t been truly tested since the Romulan war.
I’m so tired of having to repeat this to the Canonites, just because something isn’t talked about on a show doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. If Spock didn’t want to mention Burnham, he didn’t have to! As for the Klingon’s there is controlled conflict with Star Fleet and the Klingons in TOS that eventually escalate to the issue on Organia. What in DSC in in contradiction?
To whom do I send my Mr. Spock audition video? If they aren’t casting, my odds go up tremendously.
Since I’m fat, bald and older I was hoping for a K’mpec casting call.
LOL! I’m a classically-trained actor, plus I’m the Spock type from a casting point of view. I’m half-serious about submitting an audition. Sounds like fun.
But it’s probably a waste of time. Kurtzman’s latest announcement says to me they’ve already found their Spock, if they’re casting one at all. And of course they are. He’s on the Enterprise in that final shot.
Star Trek has always honored its actors by doing as little recasting as possible. If Spock and Pike are going to be shown (and it seems like Pike certainly will) why can’t they get Zachary Quinto and Bruce Greenwood? This is a big budget show; there’s no reason they can’t get Quinto and Greenwood as semi-recurring characters.
Bruce Greenwood is a bit on the old side to do Pike. Hunter was 39 when he did The Cage, Greenwood is 61 today so it’d be a bit of a stretch.
Quinto is only 6 years older than Nimoy was during The Cage, but he has stated he has no interest in going back to TV, and would prefer not to do more Star Trek.
Recasting is probably the best option so you can avoid having to recast again, or scrap plans if Quinto continues to look down his nose at Star Trek.
It’s a shame, because Greenwood was good in the role, and he’s not above doing tv.
I imagine Kurtzman is definitely going to try to get Quinto though. How could he not?
It would be a hell of a surprise if they can pull it off. Otherwise I’m sure they can get Brandon Routh or someone else of a similar stature and budget.
There are ways to “youthen” actors. So I’m all for a Greewood Pike, if Greenwood’s available and willing.
As for Quinto, I hope they could get him too, but they’ve re-cast roles pretty successfully [e.g., Amanda and Stella]. As for the looks of characters, though, James Frain could hardly look more dissimilar to Mark Lenard.
[Shrug.] It’s all up to the producers.
Quinto has been signed for a 4th film. If it does happen. If he doesn’t want to play Spock anymore then I’m guessing the payday is enough to change his mind.
I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that Quinto is doing a new version of In Search Of; if true, there goes his “I won’t do television” argument. Given that it would probably be a small role, maybe even a one-time thing, I would not mind seeing his take on doing Prime Spock.
Likewise, I would not mind running into Chris Pine for a quick scene as Ensign Kirk from his days on the USS Farragut at some point. I don’t think it would hurt or break the show to do a few callouts like that.
Can’t believe this man gets work. His resume is garbage. How did that Mummy movie turn out, eh?
The tiresome noise created by all of you whiny “Make Trek Great Again” babies is oddly similar to people in WV crying that they need their coal mining jobs back.
If you do not embrace change, tolerance and exploration then all you can do is repeat what you know and eventually you become irrelevant like coal miners, block buster video …et al. The Trek that the MTGA wants is not relevant to today’s audience.
The fact that, after thousands of hours watching Trek, embracing change, tolerance and exploration has apparently not soaked into the MTGA neocortex is simply astonishing.
My children love ST Disco. At then end, it landed square on what the philosophy of what Trek is all about and as long as they do that, I’m fine.
It is healthy to discuss what you liked or didnt like. Watching and enjoying is only half the experience 😁
I GET the distrust and cynicism that was thrown DSCs way. They had a tall order to fill.
Make something visually stunning to draw in new people, don’t break the story canon, but at the same time don’t burden the show with too much as to not confuse new viewers, show WHY Gene’s optimistic vision of the future and humanity is as important today as it was 50 years ago, navigate the CBS/Paramount divide.
The show seemed off to a rocky start, I know plenty of people who tuned out after episode 2,3,4. And it was easy to see why: They had no faith in the creative team.
But this was all a setup to bring the story around to this finale. To maneuver the Federation into a situation where its values were being tested and then to boldly reaffirm the values Star Trek stands for.
The only time I worried for DSC was when the departure of Bryan Fuller was announced. But seeing/listening to interviews with creative team, seeing how excited the cast was all through-out production I never doubted their intentions to deliver a Star Trek for a new Generation.
Embracing APPROPRIATE change is the key to this. Getting behind change that puts us in an ethical toilet, like this country doubling back on progress and embracing segrationist, elitist prejudiced views that deny science as well as common sense and decency is NOT the kind of change you should be embracing.
And that is the exact point DSC has been making.
I thought I already posted this thought, but don’t see it anywher. Was figuring that the best reason for leaving Yeoh alive is so that in about ten years she blows up Ceti Alpha VI, which leads into the KHAN spinoff.
They are going to Vulcan to pick up Sybok. He’s the new captain. Y’all have a nice day and stop reading reviews. If you like, great! If you don’t, great. Reviews mean nothing.
I’m always excited to see the Enterprise. But they’ve done a disservice to Discovery by bringing it in, at least so soon. They spent a whole season building up this ship and crew and how the Discovery ISN’T the Enterprise and this show is different than previous Trek. Then to bring it in as a gimmick. It’s cheap and throws all that away.
Felt like you get it out of the way so that you can move on without people bringing it up later on. The elephant in the room so to speak
I agree PEB
Yes, they’ll have one ep or two where the two ships’s crews act together to take care of something, and each will sail off in different directions.
Fine by me!
Yes I agree with this. They wanted to get rid of the ‘where is the Enterprise’ questions that would’ve plagued it for another five seasons if they never showed it. Now they can do it and just move on. I’m fine with that and although I would’ve been fine we never seen or heard about the Enterprise now that we have it I’m curious to see what they will do. Hopefully its only 1-2 episodes and then they go to something else but it could be a bigger story than that.
I thought that the spore drive would be dead and classified…
I was hoping
First line of Season 02, Episode 01
“Science Officer’s Personal Log. After spending the last few months assisting our colleagues in The Enterprise, we bid them farewell and take off on our new mission.”
lol yep and …it was nice to see Spock and reminisce.
I will admit to being “one of those fans” who would have preferred some more visual continuity to the TOS era than what we’ve received. But, I am certainly able to live with the approach taken and think the new Enterprise is awesome, if not exactly a perfect replica. What else have we seen on occasion throughout the series that isn’t a perfect replica? Characters! Saavik looked different between STII and STIII. And the whole Kelvin Universe cast looked different from their prime counterparts, even though most were born before the Narada split the timeline. So, for me, I will just think of the Enterprise as having been “recast” by a new actor with a more contemporary wardrobe and hair style :-)
so why not give the spock role to Quinto and the kirk role to Pine? this can be their prime timeline selves. besides quinto pulled off a damned amazing spock and I frankly thought pine was damn close to shatners kirk, and for pike, for gods Sake plz call in Greenwood, he deserves the screentime.
Quinto’s Spock is irritated and annoyed (even before Vulcan was destroyed) compared to Nimoy’s serene and calm Spock.
But Quinto could act like Prime Spock for purposes of this series. He doesn’t have to act with the Kelvin Timeline personality.
Kirk’s not on the Enterprise yet.
As for Bruce Greenwood, he’s a busy guy. Did you see him in “The Post” as Robert MacNamara? [That said, I hope they can get him.]
Yeah, I’d love to see Quinto-Spock. Who knows if they’d want to blow enough money to get Quinto or Greenwood.
I will admit it is good to see the Big E again. At a distance it looked like the Constitution Class we all know and love. But the close up shot reminds me of the Exeter Class in Star Trek Online. Still not sure what to think though. The Trekkie in me says that is not the Enterprise (not a huge fan of the design from 2009-STB but it grew on me a little) I did enjoy STD. Never did get used to the spinning saucer though. I do hope they make Saru permanent captain of the Discovery in the show in season 2. Though they did mention meeting the new captain at Vulcan.
Discovery was a fresh take and had its moments in its first season. Things went downhill with the episode where the Lorca twist was revealed. The rest was written very poorly. The final episode is monumental crap. It is not surprising to call the big E for help, when you end up in such deep bs, really. Kurtzman, logic dictates it’s you behind this incompetency, please go away or swallow your childish twists and write stories instead. Look where childish twists got Abrams. Soon to be forgotten director of twists nobody remembers.
Yeah, soon to be forgotten after doing just two Star Wars movies… Geez.
This is unnecessarily rude, not that Alex Kurtzman has any time to read this.
The picture of Spock has the correct year, 2265, but the wrong episode. This shot is from “Where No Man Has Gone Before”
It would have been a lot easier if they either set this in the Abrams/Kelvin timeline or they made it a third universe. As they mentioned, the Enterprise has a completely different design. I would guess the interior will be much different as well. I actually don’t see the need to redesign the exterior of the ship that is so legendary.
Because the ship would look like an outdated joke sitting next to the very advance Discovery that actually looks like something from the modern day and not the sixties. You guys only look at it from a POV of someone who has been watching this stuff for decades so in your head it all looks and feels normal. For anyone else watching this show for the first time the Enterprise would’ve looked jarring and clearly from another era and not from the same period Discovery is suppose to be in. In other words it wouldn’t fly. The nacelles alone screams the 60s and why I’m happy the one big consistency in all the Trek shows since TNG is that they all have that blue streak of light running in them and why we got in on this Enterprise as well.