Everything Known About ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Season Two (So Far)

Yes I was responding to you. You said “lots to legitimately criticize in DSC, but canonistas need to get over it.
My point was people won’t stop criticising it for not fitting in with canon as long as the creators insist it fits with canon.
It’s that simple.

She pretty obviously did respond to what you actually wrote.

I responded to your final sentence. That is because there is no way to respond to the paragraph. The points are you are making are kinda silly.

The idea that …. “lots of things of enormous import ….were never mentioned earlier” can be used as an explanation for why discovery fits in with tos. In that case let’s just make up anything and claim it was never mentioned before no how a radical depuature from the original show.

In that case in a prequel to tos can do stuff like that mentioned below and still claim it fits in with canon.

Tribbles before tos were 10 feet tall with teeth.
Vulcan were hedonists before tos.
The federation enslaved pre-wrap world before Tos.
Romulans build ships in the shape of pigs.
Vulcan tried to conquer the earth when they first arrived.
Half of humanity defected to the Romulan empire during the Romulan earth war.

Just because none of these things were mentioned nor fit in with the spirit of tos under your idea they do not clash with the original.

Also in regards to developments like the kelvin wrap drive never being mentioned gain. The same is true for practically everything that was encountered in tos.

That is because tos was originally an episodic show with a loose continuity. This continuity became harder over time. Discovery is not an episodic show, it does not even fit in with the lose continuity of the early episodes like the cage or the very early episodes of tos like using warp factor instead of warp speed, or Vulcanian instead of Vulcan.
If your point is that because tos had a loose continuity, discovery can fit in (despite being way different) it would really help your argument if discovery used some of the terminology of the early shows. But it does not.

Abuse? REALLY!

Carter,
Gaslighting, yes, but a form of it that gets a boost from peer pressure, bolstered with ye old, ‘you aren’t entitled to critique it unless you keep watching it.’ I think you may have nailed it. Be interesting to see how long it takes till this backfires, and terrifying if it doesn’t.

AhhhHHHHhhh, I like the way you think.

Plus they could use Spore Drive to travel through time [oy veh]

I think they should go back and win the war with the Klingons [heh-heh] because otherwise the Federation will be rebuilding for DECADES.

I don’t think it is since it clashes so much of what we know about the TOS era. Maybe if they put it in a different universe like the Kelvin films but for many its too distracting and for a very valid reason.

Sigh. . . “What do we really know about the TOS era?” I can’t take anyone seriously on this site who writes something like that (to say nothing of someone who thinks TNG, DS9 and Voyager doesn’t exist). Why does someone who clearly hates Star Trek and Star Trek fans spend so much time trolling this site?

Er, a show set in 1980 would be a heck of a lot different than a show set in 1990. Etc. Etc.

Heck, even true with 2008. Are most people talking about the Iraq War in normal conversation now?

I don’t see why inter-ship beaming would be such a big problem. It should be easier to do than long range beaming when you think about it. I can imagine that they did many short distance beaming tests first when they was developing the technology.

Tiger,
A lot of these problems emerged right off the bat with TNG, since replication took away the frontier-feel in a lot of telling ways. If you can’t run out of supplies, you’re in a far different boat than 99.999% of folks, and that affects storytelling drastically, if you believe that what drives story is NEED. That’s why DS9 is the only post-TOS that worked for me, because they put in some workarounds. VOYAGER was in an ideal position to put even more workarounds, so you’d see people in torn and stained uniforms aboard a ship that was breaking down visibly, and they did NOTHING with it — they always even had power for the holodeck! I think ENT and DSC both still feel like conventional Berman-minded 24th century storytelling, in that most stories don’t seem to involve compelling need, they just state in dialog that something is important but you aren’t often made to feel that on a gut level (and yeah, there are exceptions — I’m ashamed to say that PEN PALS does work emotionally on me, even though it is wrong in what most would consider to be Trek terms.) I have a lot more empathy for all of the maquis than I do for any Ent character except maybe Phlox, and the same for DSC, where, while I’m amused by Tilly, I’m not really seeing anyone who seems appealing.

Well, there’s frontier and there’s frontier. I see what you mean regarding THE EXPANSE (which I really wanted to like, as I adore Allan Steele’s ORBITAL DECAY and LUNAR DESCENT), but I found the visual treatment very off-putting and also didn’t like a lot of the cast, so I barely got through season 1.

Regarding 24th cen TREK, I just feel that a lack of finite resources makes things too easy is all.

Also, even in some of the TOS novels that seem to show them as very advanced tech-wise, like my beloved THE WOUNDED SKY, there is a real boldly-go feel that makes you feel the frontier in a less scrappy way, but it still feel very TOS, in that they got the characters righter than right.

Total departure, but something I’ve been thinking about lately, and the word ‘frontier’ prompts this. Unlike most people, I really like STAR TREK 5 (along with TMP and KHAN, it’s among the only ones I really do like), but where I take it to task is that they missed out on some better storytelling alternatives with the tale. I think they could have told the same story, but have Kirk Spock & McCoy marooned on Nimbus III by Sybok, then have them forced to team with the Klingons to chase the Enterprise to the center of the galaxy. You’d have integrated the Klingons into the story in a better way, done more with the ‘fostering relations’ angle, and gotten even more of an exploration of the big three than we got.

It’s only a “blank slate” to those who don’t care about Trek in the first place.

The future is the only blank slate, and Discovery choose not to go there, so canon criticism is fair game.

Cute try, but you know what I meant. TOS is from the past. Discovery should’ve been about the future.

I literally wrote that “TOS is from the past.” Your response? “TOS was the 60s view of the future.” Get it now?

None. But if that’s your take on the conversation . . .

Well thank god no one cares about that opinion but you. It all exists. Thats WHY its called canon. Stop trolling.

But thats not how canon works man. And what’s funny is I have suggested over and over again if they just make the show an official reboot then you actually WOULDN’T have to care about the other shows. Thats the entire point of a reboot, ie, starting from scratch.

And thats why its annoying to some people, instead of just saying that and making the universe however you want, they keep pushing the notion its canon with all the other shows from TOS to Voyager and yet feels like it conflict with them.

I don’t get why they just can’t call it that? Or put it in another universe which is essentially an in-universe way to reboot as the Kelvin films did. It would make their problems go away tomorrow. Maybe not all, but most.

And its also why I don’t have an issue with the Kelvin films like others do. I LIKE it can just do its own thing and not conform (completely) to canon. Fine, let Discovery do the same if they really feel those other shows are too outdated and they don’t want to put it in a more appropriate time period.

Its like they are afraid people will stop watching if they call it what it actually is.

Uh, you mean ‘guys’ as in the fanbase. Yeah well that’s more than a few dozen people. Its on every Trek site out there for a reason. TM doesn’t live in a vacuum. And again, if you DON’T care about canon then this conversation isn’t for you, right? No one is telling you TO care. Its for EVERY ONE else who does.

And as its been said over and over again, if you’re going to tell people it suppose to align with canon and many feel its not doing that, then what do you expect exactly? You think people will just ignore it? Is this your first time on the internet?

Yes its just a TV show. Notice I’m not calling for anyone to die who makes it and or have ever insulted anyone who does make it. And I also still support it as I like more things about it than I hate overall. But I can still posts my criticisms of the show just the same. Right?

I mean are you going to sit here and say you never complained about a movie or a TV show before, ever? And I always find that funny how people say this when its something they like but yet that notion goes out the window when its something they hate.

No one is telling you not to like Discovery. But for people who don’t they have very valid reasons why they don’t, JUST like you have very valid reasons why you may not like other Star Trek shows or films and express it. That’s how it works around here.

I have personally supported every Trek show with the exception of Enterprise and even for that show I still came around and now love it and TRUST me when I say my complaints of that show was ten times harder than this one. My criticisms of Discovery is oddly not that different than most Trek shows, but most simply got better in time. Take a guess chief why so many improved in the first place? Because they listened to the complaints of people like here and made changes. That’s all I’m hoping Discovery will do in time.

Yeah like I believe that. And I DO like Discovery, I’m simply pointing out my criticisms which is why you have message boards in the first place.

I mean do you just want posts of how everyone loves a movie or show? Sorry but that doesn’t exist anywhere on the internet lol. Even Reddit, which oddly enough I think is the MOST supportive of any Star Trek board I ever been to naturally still have a lot of criticisms but generally seem to love the franchise as a whole. So you can find a balance.

Again MOST people here seem like they really do want to like the show. Yes there are a few naysayers who are convinced the show will never improve or shouldn’t exist but they aren’t the majority. Most people DO have valid reasons why they don’t like it and those people are simply stating their opinion of it.

No one is forcing you to be here. If you can’t take any criticisms, then the internet isn’t for you.

OK fine but I disagree. Most seem to actually love Star Trek and unlike here (and you btw) its not a constant ‘my Star Trek is better than your Star Trek’ nerd war which sadly one of the issues I have with some people like you here on TM. Again I GET everyone will have their favorites and not so favorites, but what I hate (and this applies directly to you once again) is people should stop acting like whatever Star Trek they like is the only one that matters OR they are not ‘true fans’ if they like something you don’t. It gets SO annoying to read and yet its sadly done all the time here. Star Trek universe is HUGE, everyone can enjoy what they like without stomping on the rest. Its been around fifty years, it will be around another fifty so it all matters regardless of people’s personal preferences.

And I guess what I like about Reddit is that that stuff is done at a minimum because of the points systems. Yes you get a lot negative people there but they are in the minority. And its not a constant stream of why so and so Trek show shouldn’t be canon (although yes there is a lot of that with Discovery sadly). But I think overall there is more of a celebration of the franchise as a whole vs here where its people constantly going to their same corners over what Trek product represents the franchise over the other. My god, if you don’t like something fine, just enjoy what you DO like. And stop treating people who make the stuff like they are the devil.

I’m NOT perfect but I LOVE Star Trek, all of it. Even when I’m critical like I been over Enterprise, the Kelvin films and Discovery I will support it 100%. Yes I gave up on Enterprise early but I was just burnt out by then (for people who claim there was no fatigue, trust me, I’m proof that it was) and regretted it later.

I WANT to love Discovery, in time maybe I will. Right now, its more of the ‘its OK’ slot for me, which is not bad, just far from great. At least it can go up for me and hopefully in time it will like all the others did. But the issues I DO have with it are fundamental ones but no, nothing that will make me stop watching the show either. Or at least not yet.

LOL you have said this before. Do you honestly think its that many ‘Russians’ on the Star Trek sub reddit? And if so they really know their Star Trek at least. ;)

“I don’t go out of my way to watch TV shows or movies that I don’t like. So no need to complain about them on the internet. You should try it. Feels good.”

You should take off a day from trolling Star Trek fans. I took a day off from dealing with trolls. Felt good.

The only ones responding to your posts are those of us who continue to support Trek and DISC. So try another line of attack.

“Every one else” doesn’t necessarily care about canon. The various shows have done all sorts of contortions to get around it, ignore it, or brush it off entirely.

The INcanon NOTcanon question is a bit of a bore to me. You’re right, if the showrunners just said “it’s not canon” it’d be easier for a bunch of people to go with it.

Yet there’d be canonistas bitching about that too. There is no end of bitching from canonistas. It’s like on the Geico commercials, “You’re a TOS canonista. You bitch. It’s what ya do.”

The majority of people just don’t care about all that minutiae. Star Trek ignores their own canon all the time.

Like the time during the first season of TNG when the Klingons were members of the Federation.

The Klingons were never members of the Federation, but they were full members in the first season of TNG right up until the writers decided that it was a bad idea and swept that piece canon under the carpet never to be seen again. It was the reason Worf’s Baby Mamma was working for the Federation for some reason.

HN..

The Klingons were NEVER memebers of the Federation. Not even in the first season of TNG. It was never mentioned. In fact, it was said that Worf was the only Klingon in Star Fleet. But he was raised by humans.

OK. I’m forced to trust you as I have only seen the vast majority of TNG episodes only once. (Most are not good enough for repeated views) But I got the distinct impression that it was a mere treaty or agreement between the two. Could that have been one of the early episodes? Before they really had a handle on what they were doing?

So I don’t see huge leaps — yet — in logic or consistency. They’ve said repeatedly that the show will eventually explain how it segues into the TOS era.

I hope they don’t over-explain it (I always thought Enterprise’s need to explain the TOS Klingons was dumb and unnecessary).

There are all sorts of plausible explanations for not mentioning the six-month Klingon war in daily conversation in TOS (and maybe it wasn’t widespread knowledge that they got as close to Earth as they did). The same way all sorts of oversights (“Maybe Chekov really was somewhere on the Enterprise during Space Seed.”), whether accidentsl or just needrf to make a story work, have always been.