There has been a lot of talk in the last few months about the fourth Kelvin timeline Star Trek film, with a script being reportedly done, financing being lined up, a director hired, and predictions of production starting in early 2019. However, a new report puts a major wrinkle into developments.
A Chris crisis
The story of the follow-up to Star Trek Beyond started two summers ago, when Paramount announced the next film in the Star Trek franchise would reunite Captain Kirk (Chris Pine) with his father, played by Chris Hemsworth in 2009’s Star Trek. However, according to The Hollywood Reporter, both Chris Pine and Chris Hemsworth have balked at Paramount’s attempt to renegotiate previous deals in an attempt to cut the budget for the film. According to THR, both actors are “walking away from the table.”
The Star Trek 4 announcement, and presumably the deals associated with it, came before the release of Star Trek Beyond, which under-performed expectations. There is a concern that the Trek films have a ceiling and and the studio can’t budget them at the same levels as other tent poles. THR cites insiders saying the Paramount “contends that Trek is not like a Marvel or Star Wars movie and is trying to hold the line on a budget.”
It is certainly true that both Hemsworth and Pine have had bigger franchise film success outside of Star Trek. Pine is currently in production on the sequel to 2017’s Wonder Woman, which brought in over $821 million worldwide. In that same year, Hemsworth starred in Thor: Ragnarok, which brought in $854 million. These numbers dwarf 2016’s Star Trek Beyond, which made $343 million, even though all three films were similarly budgeted. Even if the next Star Trek film can get closer to Star Trek Into Darkness’ $467 million, that still is shy of the typical Marvel and Star Wars film.
Paramount still moving ahead
According to the report, next steps are “unclear,” however their studio insiders are saying that the Star Trek 4 project “remains a priority development and is not being put on hold.” THR says that deals for Star Trek stars Zoe Saldana, Zachary Quinto, Karl Urban, Simon Pegg and John Cho “are expected to close.” Negotiations with Hemsworth and Pine could restart, but the report also suggests the possibility of recasting James T. Kirk and George Kirk. Without Pine and Hemsworth, that would certainly be the only way to move forward with the script developed by J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay.
Paramount has yet to fill out its 2020 calendar, but in a conference call just yesterday with analysts, Viacom CEO Robert Bakish trumpeted a turnaround for the studio and promised next year’s slate of releases “will nearly double the number of worldwide theatrical releases compared to 2018 and consistent with the flagship strategy we unveiled last year.” Bakish has previously cited Star Trek as one of the key franchises for the company. And in April Paramount CEO Jim Gianopulos shook the world of Trek by announcing the studio had not just one, but two Trek films in development.
This is a developing story. Stay tuned to TrekMovie for all the updates on upcoming Star Trek movies.
Well, at least they admit it. All the delays clearly suggested something was off. But shouldn’t this have been resolved before anything was announced?
Announcing it is probably Paramount playing hardball.
Playing hardball is saying they’ll recast, not announcing the movie.
Not necessarily. Announcing this has got the fans talking about it. It could drum up fan support to try to convince them…
Or it could be a ploy by the agent of one of the Chrises.
Neither actor needs the gig so their agents won’t feel pressured. They can both walk away and their careers will be fine.
As a LONG time Trek fan, I would DEEPLY appreciate and RESPECT the whole endeavor if they would recast the whole crew and redsign the story, ships and props to a much closer TOS style with REAL science in the fiction.
There’s no such thing as “REAL science in the fiction”.
LOL, that will never happen. Thank God.
I agree. They should wait and see if the Pike and Spock on Discovery work out and build a new cast around that in the prime universe. The TV and movie studios should be on the same page anyway if its all gonna work… I never really liked the Kelvin cast.
I really like how Marvel got its s**t together and came up with a long term plan. That’s what Star Trek needs to do.
Until Paramount and CBS get together that just is not going to happen.
I’ve been re-watching all Star Trek episodes “chronologically” (so TNG and DS9 episodes were interspersed and DS9 and VOY episodes have been interspersed).
I just got to the point where First Contact falls in the timeline I’ve been using to watch the episodes/films.
Voyager’s “Blood Fever” (directed by Garak!) ends with a semi-cliffhanger of their discovery of a mummified/dead Borg drone. The episode aired over 3 months after First Contact aired. This episode should have aired in November, ideally one or two weeks before the release of First Contact.
I can’t really fault them for this, but I wish they could have had the kind of synergy that Marvel has been able to pull off this past decade between their film and television productions. Before anyone points it out, I do realize that the film productions don’t concern themselves with the shows at all – so the “synergy” is pretty much all one direction (the shows referencing or interacting with events happening in the films).
Even with the CBS/Paramount divide, I’m kind of shocked they can’t find a mutually beneficial agreement. Marvel/Disney was able to pull it off with Sony regarding the Spider-Man crossover into Marvel/Disney. It could just be that Paramount has simply been a bad steward for Trek for almost 20 years and the inability to have the big and small screens work in conjunction is a result of that among their other failings (quintuple+ releases of various versions of the films among their other huge failing).
Discovery would have worked well in the Kelvin universe, largely because it would have avoided both the storytelling and visual constraints that should have existed as they shoehorned it into the “Prime” timeline as a prequel and because the show would be there to help sell an upcoming film (or vice versa).
Having a separate television continuity from film continuity can work (DC’s separate television offerings are far better than their film ones), but I think it’s a huge missed opportunity here.
“Marvel/Disney was able to pull it off with Sony regarding the Spider-Man crossover into Marvel/Disney.”
The reason for that was because Sony’s attempts at a reboot failed. They would’ve preferred to keep Spidey for themselves but given the performance of the Garfield’s outings they opted for the deal to let Parker show up in the MCU. Paramount is not yet prepared to give up on Trek just yet. So the movies and TV remain separate.
“shouldn’t this have been resolved before anything was announced?” Ummm, they “announced” that there would be a followup film to Star Trek Beyond with Chris Hemsworth returing as Kirk’s dad BEFORE STAR TREK BEYOND HAD EVEN BEEN RELEASED TO THEATERS. They pretty much painted themselves into a corner on this one.
Ummm, I was referring to the steady trickle of pre-production news this past year, such as the hiring of a director, not the old 2016 news.
Plus, wasn’t it Bad Robot back then pushing the news as a way to build hype for Beyond?
Well, good for them, sticking to their guns. Paramount made a deal with them, and now the studio is trying to break it. Surely the studio wouldn’t accept being paid less than it was promised in a contract. And what would it mean to pay the actors what they were promised, anyway? Spending $10 MM or so less on special effects that nobody’s gonna miss and wouldn’t make the movie any more exciting? They broke the bank with STID, and that didn’t make it a great movie or even a re-watchable one. Make a leaner, more character and story oriented film, and pay your actors what you promised them, ffs. Don’t take no sh*t from the man, fellas.
Nobody is breaking any deals. Each movie is negotiated separately.
It sounds like they agreed to a previous deal and the studio wants negotiate.
“…Chris Pine and Chris Hemsworth have balked at Paramount’s attempt to renegotiate previous deals…”.
I agree. TWOK had a lower budget than TMP, and nearly everyone liked it better. It isn’t a ton of special effects that makes a good movie; it’s a good SCRIPT. Hire a real science fiction writer who also knows and likes Star Trek — someone like Robert J. Sawyer — and make a movie with heart.
All Good Things would’ve been a much better film Generations turned out to be and I doubt they spent 10% on that episode they spent on Generations. Granted it would’ve cost more just because movie FX is costlier but yes it proves over and over again movie with a more money doesn’t=better story. Most of us here probably prefer Trek episodes over the films but the films are made with a bigger audience in mind and you need more spectacle.
TWOK worked but it also worked for a different time. I mean I think it would be successful today but still not on the ‘big tentpole’ level studios now want. Star Trek is a middle tier franchise, they are never going to make $600+ million films as hard as they try so I agree they should make a lower budget film, but one with heart. Maybe that’s what they are trying to do anyway but its still going to be a bigger film.
Besides, Trek doesn’t really have too big of presence internationally as well. These days the studios are really looking for that international revenue especially from bigger countries like China.
Yes and that’s exactly why they are trying to make these Kelvin films work, because they are really the first Trek films that is trying to grab an international audience besides Europe which is where the previous films mostly made money.
STID roll out was all based on trying to get into the China market and why it was made into 3D. People even suggested Benedict Cumberbatch was chosen as Khan because his Sherlock show was big in China. I really don’t believe that (why he was chosen I mean) but its not a secret how important the international audience is today and Paramount wants bigger influence in China. I mean Alibaba is a Chinese company and has a direct stake in all of Paramount films for this very reason; to get higher distribution in China.
Sadly the problem is Star Trek still hasn’t had a big hit abroad. I mean better today but it’s still peanuts compared to what Marvel, Harry Potter and Fast and Furious does. So why I’m not sure how much longer these films will go if they can’t get the price down.
Cumberbatch was chosen because of his enormous status as a movie star who generally can do anything, play anyone.
I agree he is a very good actor, and his performance in Into Darkness is fairly good, no real major problems with it.
But simply put, he did not play a very good Khan. He didn’t really look like Montalban either, did he? How J.J. Abrams didn’t see this, considering how much experience he has, is a complete mystery to me. It strikes me as a ‘safe’ casting decision but not the ‘right’ casting decision. Going with lesser known actors or even ‘newbies’ is a risky business when your making a film that is costing ‘a lot’of money.
Sometimes though, risk is an essential part of the business, in order to keep things organic and ‘real’ and not ‘stale’ and hopefully ‘SS Clarkson’ has learned something about that? I hope so!
Oh I agree about BC. And we spent a LOT of time here complaining about it lol. So I don’t want to dredge up the past too much and I know Orci came out here at the time and said they didn’t want to have a brown skin guy a terrorist in the film. And of course the simple answer to that was, fine, just don’t call the guy Khan then (and Khan wasn’t a terrorist anyway, but that’s another post).
It’s just one of those things where you can’t get anymore tone-deaf about it. No one wanted Khan in the film in the first place. But if you’re going to do it, then just do it right! And I know a few hundred nerds on the internet should never determine what goes in a movie script that is suppose to appeal to millions of people, but they HAD to know this was going to create a backlash over the racial issue alone.
As a person of color myself, one of the things about Star Trek that I loved is that they DID make the brown skin guy this charismatic cool super human who ruled most of the world. Dark skin people aren’t exactly strangers to playing villains of course but Khan wasn’t just any villain either. There was a mystique him and his background, ALL of it, is what made him so cool. STID had so much potential and awful casting mistake ruined it for a lot of people.
The Spock scream really kills it dead for me. It’s a horrible scene which I actually cannot believe they kept in the film.
That should have been a deleted scene.
In fact the whole death of Kirk thing was horrible in my opinion.
I agree with you that at least if they had Cumberbach play a character other than Khan it would have worked better. Like making him John Harrison! Why not? Not every villain needs to have a name like Khan or Krudge, or Soran, or Shinzon!
Everyone seem to like the idea when they actually thought he was John Harrison, rogue Section 31 agent. That would’ve been just as fun AND it could’ve went directly to the heart of the film was actually about dealing with someone who gave his life protecting the Federation and doing questionable deeds over it suddenly grew a conscious once he knew Marcus was planning to create a false flag to go to war with the Klingons.
But waking up a 300 year old man to build advance ships and weapons probably sounded like a good idea at the time.
STID might have worked a lot better if two things had happened differently:
(1) They had cast Benico De Toro for the role, and he channeled a Montleban-style Khan which could have been awesome INSTEAD of the dumb-ass pasty white Brit Khan approach (nothing against BC) which made no sense whatsoever (i.e. the moronic reason from Bob Orci that they wanted a white terrorist to off-set current events); and
(2) Instead of “running away” from announcing it was Khan and trying to make it the worst secret in the world reveal, start given sneak peaks and marketing The Return of Khan and that movie is going to be a “love letter to WOK” like a year in advance…like at Comicon 2012.
It’s really frustrating, because that could have been a great movie that spoke to WOK while also commenting on the US’s over-reaction to terrorist by our gov’t.
I think they should of had Benedict just be one of khan’s followers but they woke him up first.
So federation reaches out after the fall of Vulcan and find the Botany Bay and wake up one of the others in stasis. Maybe the second in command, whatever his name was in WOK. He see an opportunity to be leader kills the away team and khan. Boom you can redo the original episode keeping new and old fans happy.
Interesting — yea, that could also have worked I think.
I’ve thought the same thing, but I’d have gone a much simpler route. It wouldn’t have required much of an edit to the film, either. All it would have required would have been an addition to a scene at the end of the film when Cumberbatch’s character is returned to his cryogenic pod among the other hibernating Botany Bay survivors; as the camera moves across the pods you get a glimpse of Ricardo Montalban in one of the other pods. Then you realize that John Harrison lied about who he was.
You know, that would have been awesome!
That could have worked too. The problem here was there were a number of things where they could have made the exact same movie without actually using Khan Singh. Myself, I really do not understand why they felt the need to go with the Khan character at all. I mean, why go out of your way to be compared with what most feel is the best Trek film ever? It just boggles my mind.
“But waking up a 300 year old man to build advance ships and weapons probably sounded like a good idea at the time.”
Braga and Moore thought Kirk and Picard cooking in the kitchen was a good idea at the time too!
Yes but I can at least imagine them cooking even if the idea to have them do it was stupid. Khan being a man who left Earth in the 20th century but yet being able to help design advance starships is about as realistic as someone waking up Ben Franklin and expecting him to design advance computers.
Just to be clear… My point was it wasn’t the first time writers in a Trek movie did something stupid.
For me, mirroring WOK was a HUGE mistake. Spock doing the Khan scream was idiotic. Not only was it amazingly out of character but it turned what was a tender “death” scene into comedy as the Kirk “KHAAAAN!” scream has become a joke over the years. That was where the film fell off the cliff for me. Also, we all KNEW there would be a 3rd film. “Killing” Kirk at the end of the 2nd film held no weight as everyone in the audience KNEW he was coming back for the 3rd film. If they wanted to create tension over a “death” it HAD to be the 3rd film. When we are not sure if there will be a 4th.
I’ll pile on as I agree with all of these comments about Cumberbatch and the Khan character in STID. The Khan character per TOS “Space Seed” is a charismatic sociopath who seduces followers with his strength, charm and sex appeal. Cumberbatch didn’t play the character that way, at all, which one must attribute to the director, JJ Abrams, and to the script by Orci & Kurtzman. Benedict Cumberbatch, for all his talents, probably should not have been cast for that role. The casting was on the right track with Benicio del Toro, not just because of his physical similarities to Montalban, but because of his ability to play that type of character. I have a hard time seeing Benedict Cumberbatch playing seductive or sexy. And his performance of the character as a whiny crybaby, which, again, has to be blamed on Abrams, Orci & Kurtzman, is pretty much the exact opposite of Montalban’s Khan…and not in a good way.
Yeah it wasn’t race alone that was the issue, BC just wasn’t playing Khan in any true shape or form. It’s like he never saw Space Seed or TWOK or was told he could do whatever he wanted in the role because HIS Khan was just a whiny and complete nutjob with little to no personality whatsoever.
The whole thing still utterly baffles me. They wanted Khan in the film so badly but then they went out of their way not to have him look, sound or act like Khan in any substantial way. It’s like if someone hired Eddie Murphy to play Superman and then shocked when people point out he looks, acts and sounds nothing like the guy.
What were these guys thinking? It’s easily one of the most miscast roles in a film ever.
I’m sure JJ’s head was very much in a galaxy far, far away
“All Good Things would’ve been a much better film Generations ”
I would take issue with that. “All Good Things” was at best a mediocre TNG episode, much less a series finale. Generations, for all its faults, was WAY better a feature.
OK we’ll just have to agree to disagree here lol. I love AGT, I’ve seen it about a dozen times. Everything about that finale was TNG in all the best ways possible to me. I don’t hate Generations btw (the saucer crash is still one of my favorite Trek moments), but it had too many flaws for me even if I thought the film was generally entertaining and fun. To this day I still can’t wrap my around how the Nexus is suppose to work. The entire concept of it is just so nonsensical.
And the entire reason Picard needed Kirk was for him to help punch out a guy? This is the BEST they could come up with to put these two guys together? Seriously?
Sure, Generations is entertaining enough. It does have its share of silly moments but it has a couple of good ones. I did like “It was… Fun”. That was a GREAT final line for Kirk. And I did like watching the E-E bite the dust. (Hated that ship). But yes, the Nexus sort of gives the characters control of time. And that is always a mistake.
I guess I can agree that AGT is a VERY typical TNG episode. (Most of the TNG episdes were mediocre at best) But I have to say I am completely puzzled by the praise that episode gets. It’s no better than more than half of the regular episodes they did. Nothing about it really stood out. It’s been that way with me since it aired.
Have to agree with ML, AGT would not have been the more pleasing Trek film. It works extremely well as a finale to a show but not as a feature film to be released to the masses. The time jumps alone would have been jarring when you’re thinking about selling a film to a general audience. Granted I would have loved seeing that episode with feature film effects and makeup and PERSONALLY, I would have enjoyed it more but from a business angle it wouldn’t have been the best way to go.
Hear, hear Corylea – let’s get creative and created a TREK script that is great science-fiction instead of a budget-killing explosion-fest ( I say that as someone who’s enjoyed the Kelvin films ).
True but one of the ways they were able to do it cheaper was because many effect shots were recycled from TMP. But I agree that they don’t need a $200 million budget to make a good Trek movie.
I agree. Pine carried three films and still had his career hampered when JJ delayed production between the first and second film. He’s right to demand what the contract promises. The studio that sends Hemsworth away.
Pine fired the first shot renegotiating his original contract at the last minute for BEYOND, which resulted in the fourth film deal, despite STID underperforming. Nobody is being taken advantage of, this is business as usual.
From that Hollywood Reporter article: But Paramount also is walking away a winner. Sources say that a condition of the raises for Pine and Quinto was that the studio was granted options for a fourth movie in order to keep one of Hollywood’s most iconic pairings, Kirk and Spock, intact.
Paramount bought Pine for a fourth movie with the pay raise, and now they want to keep Pine but not the agreed-upon raise.
To be fair I can see both sides. Paramount made a deal and should stick by it. On the other hand that was before the disappointing totals of Beyond so perhaps Pine (more so than Hemsworth), should renegotiate since his star power (or lack of) didn’t help the film and with a smaller budget he should consider that. I admit that if it were me I would probably try to stick with the original deal but the situation has changed with the last 2 films making less each time. Yes the stories were a big part of it. As far as the special effects, yes the story is the most important but be carefull because in a blockbuster sci fi movie, the effects are extremly important. Remeber Star Trek V. Story wasnt that good but the effects were awful and in my opinion hurt it more than the story.
I have no desire whatsoever to see a Kelvin Timeline film without Chris Pine at the lead. I’m a big fan of his work. He’s great. Also, Chris Hemsworth. After the success of ‘Wonder Woman’ and ‘Avengers: Infinity War’, I believe their star power will bring a lot of positive attention to ‘Trek 4.
I hope things get back on track so we can boldly go again.
I like Pine, and I like Hemsowrth – but maybe they should drop Hemsworth to make the budget work?
Well, I think they can use CG or make up to age up Chris Pine and have him play his own father. Or get Shatner :))
Fine, I’ll play Kirk. $5M, my own trailer w/ sauna, and hourly massage. Done.
And we’ll let you keep the Turkish bathrobe and hotel towels. You’re hired.
Pine will be back as soon as they pay him what he’s owed. They know they can’t go ahead without him.
Maybe they could focus the story on other characters and not need to use Kirk.
Perhaps a road movie revolving around Spock, Uhura and Bones? Chekhov is gone. Kirk is off doing something else. Sulu and Scotty are off working on a new engineering project for Admiral Maxwell (whoever that is?) And do eventually end up saving Spock and Co. or helping later in the movie?
Maybe have Kirk appear in the 3 minutes of the picture; he’ll still get $1 million for it probably, but he’s Kirk!
They can just recast Kirk. No big deal.
Why not cast Shatner as an aged George Kirk? He’ll be much cheaper.
I wouldn’t pay him in hairpieces to appear in a movie. His inclusion is a loss by addition.
There is nothing like seeing the Kirks standing for what they believe in!
I thought they were in it for the love of the craft
Welcome to the real world!
I love how they say every film they are all a family who loves being together to make these movies and why they keep coming back….until money is owed and family can take a hike somewhere. That’s actually how most families actually do work though lol.
Hey, it’s Paramount going back on their word, not the actors. They have a right to be angry. And walking away is a negotiating tactic. If they don’t actually walk away from the table, they have no chance of getting a fair deal in the end.
@elontribble — the actors went back on their word first and renegotiated their contracts for the last movie, throwing Paramount’s plans into chaos.
Pine and Quinto, perhaps. But Hemsworth? His attachment deal wasn’t arranged by Grey until after Pine got his Beyond deal and the picture itself was completed and ready for release. THR reports Hemsworth’s status as murky which I read as if his contract options weren’t properly renewed as agreed upon in the regime change, which I fully expected with Grey’s premature MCU expectations for BEYOND and the new people regarding Grey’s final contracts as poison fruit from the same deadly excised tree.
Paramount’s PR is trying to take advantage of their association as relatives on screen to paint the two Chrises’ contract negotiations as the same thing but clearly they aren’t? Are they?
Seriously though… Chris Pine… he’s hardly a renowned Hollywood superstar!
He has a face and a body. Probably more then 50% of us. He can’t seems to over acted like Shatner did and it’s a positive point (some might disagree). It looks like he can act from time to time. Superstar, no. I don’t think he will be offered any serious roles that will grant him Oscar stuff. Anton Yelchin was on a better road then him in that regard. Sadly he is not there to prove it anymore. And when you think about it Hemsworth is talented too, but with his MCU role he has been firmly categorized. Maybe we can get an older crew with Vic Mignogna…just dreaming eyes opens.
“Maybe we can get an older crew with Vic Mignogna…just dreaming eyes opens.”
Yes, YES PLEASE!
Wonder Woman did make him popular though, remember these days everything depends on comic book movies.
I must be so weird for not liking comic book movies?
I’ve never seen the Avengers stuff.
I have watch Batman, X Men sort of, and Iron Man.
Might want to check that, The Hollywood Reporter (hardly an entertainment rag) refers to both of them as A-Lister….
Well, neither is an A-lister outside MCU/DC.
its simple. cancel Star Trek Thor. fast track Tarantino Trek
New cast, lower budget.
According to Quinto, the QT project is using the KU cast, too. Stay tuned….
YEP, I tend to agree.
That’s what I say, … and what I’d prefer.
The obvious choice here is to make the next Trek film a coproduction with Warner, by merging the project with the slowly progressing GREEN LANTERN CORPS. A reimagined and DIVERSE Corps could also help offset the tired whiteness of the proposed Chris Pine and Chris Evans pairing.
An interesting alternative, but he seems to hate franchises these days.
I was wondering about the Pine and Evans pairing,not actually Evans as Kirk,lol! Although…..that COULD work,lol.
Shouldn’t they have anticipated this being a problem with Hemsworth? He’s been Thor for 7 years now, of course he costs way more than he did in 2009 lol.
The fact that Hemsworth’s Kirk was mentioned in a sequel just after Beyond came out indicates the studio’s intent on the story direction for the next film. Hemsworth’s Kirk was an important, but token part of the Star Trek reboot film. While it is not in dispute his box office success with the Marvel movies, turning down his Trek involvement over money should not preclude the studio from going ahead with an actor recast if the character is so important to the next sequel, imho.
Pine, on the other hand, pretty much owns the rebooted feature film Kirk. As its been posted, he’s not quite a box office draw by himself, yet. He definitely doesn’t deserve a $20M payday. His string of not so successful movies outnumbers the more recent successful ones. If the studio and he are really committed to the success of this next movie, have him get a salary increase and give him a % of the back end profits. If the movie is a smash, then he deservedly would earn $$$$$ ala Brando in the original Superman.
Also, does Quinto have a favored nations contractual clause much like Nimoy and Shatner did during the TOS feature film era? If so, what Pine gets, Quinto should also given how important the Spock character is to Trek. I think Quinto’s Spock is more valuable to the current Trek films than Pine’s Kirk.
As far as budget is concerned, it would be a shame to start lowering it, with production quality suffering at this point. All the reboot films faithfully shine to justify their respectful budgets called for. We wait years for these films to come out and to faithfully live to its ‘where no one has gone before’ credo. Any current movie patron who plunks down their $19 for that IMAX theater ticket deserves to get his or her money’s worth on that big screen.
Pine’s “string of not so successful movies”… Dude, seriously… may I direct you to The Princess Diaries 2.
Princess Diaries 2 was #$%#& awesome!!!!!!!
I don’t like this idea that Spock is more important than Kirk; they are equally important to Star Trek.
I am not really a fan of Quinto Spock. Not sure, if it is only because of the writing or also because of the acting. It is just NuSpock so often acts more outwardly emotional than all the humans around him. There is just no subtlety when it comes to Spock showing his emotions.
Agree, really don’t like KT Spock at all. Such a shame.
They can get by without Hemsworth. Not so much without Pine.
There’s no way this film is made without Pine and Hemsworth.
The reunion of Jim Kirk and his father would have zero resonance if they recast. We want to see these two actors playing those roles.
But you could recast Pine and just use a script that didn’t have George Kirk in it.
Sure, it would probably delay the film but better that than recasting both roles.
Agreed. They really need to look at box office draw. If they get Hemsworth, I think he’ll bring some audience all on his own.
And they can’t do a new Trek without Pine, he’s a great Kirk.
Go after Liam Hemsworth instead, he’ll probably do it for chump change.
Then do what they did for the first pass of PLANET OF THE TITANS, cut JTK out of the bulk of the film (they didn’t have a deal with Shatner and/or didn’t want him onscreen much,) to bring Pine down to an extended cameo, probably the PTS and the end, like Shat in GEN. That’d bring his price down too, and let the focus be on Spock and the rest of the ensemble. You miss out on the Kirk/Kirk dynamic, but maybe there isn’t one of those to be had in the first place, as we’ve never seen Pine/Hemsworth share the screen. They might be as unelectric as Cruise/Kidman, and THEN where would we be, if they do shell out for them and it doesn’t click?
Par has tried this kind of thing before on TUC, getting Shat and Nimoy and I think the director to not take full payment up front, but at the back end. It worked there, probably because the money was guaranteed.
I said this in a thread over a year ago, that the budget for the cast was going to be a big problem, considering Pine, Quinto, and Saldana all earned around $6M on Beyond and would no doubt want raises, while Hemsworth would clearly command something similar given his Marvel success.
Combine that with the rest of the cast and whatever star they want for the villain and the cast alone could eat up nearly $70M.
In an effects heavy franchise film that didn’t earn a lot the last go round, it’s going to take some savvy maneuvering to make this work, and Ive been saying that for a while so I’m not at all surprised.
So, is this just the beginning?
Will the rest of the cast want to renegotiate, too?
According to the article, it was Paramount who was trying to renegotiate a previous deal with Pine and Hemsworth.
Of course, if Pine and Hemsworth manage to negotiate a higher pay the other actors may think about renegotiating as well.
Not only that but Pine really shined in that movie. The first one where I really believed he was Kirk.
I think Pine did a good job throughout, with what he was given. In STiD I really saw Kirk growing as a character, from a boy into a man, and in Beyond he was the man we all know and love.
Getting the Captains Chair in the first film was ridiculous though.
It’s like the writers think the audience is stupid and wouldn’t actually understand the movie ending without Kirk siting in the chair. The movie should have ended with Kirk getting together with Bones and the Crew, over a party lunch or maybe a drink, celebrating their first adventure and looking towards their future with the energy of youth in their stride. We did not need to end it in some fanciful scene on the bridge. What message is that sending to young people? THAT you can achieve ultimate success after one adventure, one chapter. Maybe for the exceptional minority. For most people real success only comes after many trials and errors!
This proves exactly what so many of us was saying and why they are delaying any official word of it happening because of the budget. They know the next one isn’t a guarantee after how badly Beyond performed and trying to get it within reason.
I can’t really blame either side to be honest. I mean sure Christ Hemsworth and Pine are 100% right, if that’s the deal they made during the last movie then the studio should honor it. But when they made that deal that’s when they probably thought Beyond was going to be a major hit. They probably thought it would be it’s biggest film that summer or at least make around what STID did. They clearly were confident because they wouldn’t have announced another one before Beyond came out. They thought they had a hit on their hands. Oops! ;)
But once it bombed, that changed everything. I can’t blame them for being cautious. Frankly I’m surprised they even want to make another one. I assumed they would move on to something else after that. I’m glad they are though, but its no way they will make it without those two actors. Paramount will probably give in. I do wonder if they did replace them will they keep the same script or start over? Hopefully it get resolves fast because it can’t be the PR disaster the last one was.
Forget them and do Tarantino Trek instead.
IMO, they should have started with the Tarantino Trek as it would be the shot in the arm, attention-grabbing production that Trek would need after BEYOND’s relative failure.
Unfortunately this can’t be done because Tarantino is shooting or is gonna start shooting his other film soon. He has to finish that first before turning his attention fully to Trek.
Wouldn’t the budget be an issue for Tarantino all the more? I’m sure his paycheck will be highter than that of trek 4 director
I think everyone assumes because it’s Tarantino the budget will be less since he doesn’t make $150+ million films like Abrams and Lin do.
But I kind of think it doesn’t matter if they are using the same cast, which both Pegg and Quinto said they are. If they plan to use them for both films then its not going to change much. They can recast for Tarantino’s film, but they can do that for this one as well and just start completely over. I’m not saying they should, but yeah they could. But it would delay things to a crazy level.
No one, anywhere is giving Tarentino more the 110MM to make a movie.
Tarentino is busy. 2022 at the earliest, assuming it happens at all.
How much did they really think they can cut Hemsworth and Pines pay? This is a play, but Paramount needs them more than they need Paramount….
Wonder if Paramount could move forward with the father/son story line but with Will Decker as captain and Matt Decker as father. Bring in the two other Chrises as the Deckers.
I agree with your points, but there’s no need for that type of language please.
It’s kind of sad, all the good will over the Picard show and DIS is getting over its PR problems focusing on second season the movie side seems to always be a problem. My guess is Paramount would’ve loved to announce a new movie at comic con or Vegas. But it sounds like if Pine really does bail that movie will be in jeopardy and why I don’t see them getting rid of him. He’s too close to the franchise now. I mean no offense but Cho not playing Sulu the film can survive. But you get rid of Kirk at this point in the franchise you’re only asking for trouble. I don’t think audiences will except a new Kirk. It took a while to even get old fans to accept him, no one wants to go down that road again in the fourth movie.
I like Cho as Sulu,so hope he stays.
I want Cho for as Captain Sulu series with George Takei as his father :))
I do too, but I don’t see him not participating as a major problem the way Pine is. Pine is the star and he clearly knows it.
Drop Hemsworth. Re-cast with an older, veteran actor for Kirk Sr.
I think Paramount wants all the Marvel fanboys and fangirls to watch Trek so they won’t drop Hemsworth, he has a built in audience that follows him everywhere.
I dunno, they never followed him to his string of non-Marvel box office flops. :P
Ghostbusters did so well with him in it!
Nothing could have saved Ghostbusters…
An actual, humorous script that didn’t make everything a SNL sketch would’ve saved it.
I know actors “have to” maintain a bottom-line salary, but how many million$ do ya need.
To replace Pine at this point would be very bad, and replacing both him and Hemsworth is just stupid, because the box office returns will be really good with both of them in the film.
One of the reasons for the lackluster performance of Beyond was verrrrry poor promotion by Paramount. The lack of publicity was just astounding.
Paramount even ignored the 50th Anniversary FFS. Did the 50th Anniversary belong solely to CBS or something? Good grief.
I know we talked about it here all the time but it really was astounding of just how poorly Paramount did promoting Beyond. My only guess is the delay in making the film created the problems because the first two were marketed amazingly. I was living in Sydney when the first film came out (even went to the premiere) and they did an amazing job pushing that film everywhere. And the type of promotion was just great. There was a sense Star Trek was coming back and it was BIG!
Beyond had that one bad trailer and nothing else for six months. They never tried to do anything until it was way too late.
Same thing here in Germany. I think I remember Paramount was not happy with the promotion in europe for ST09. STID was a bit better then, but the Beyond promo was really bad. Nobody had any interest in it. Star Trek Fandom is not that big here, but younger people do not know the stereotypes and you can watch star trek every time on tv. Sames goes I think for other european countries.
i thought German Trek fandom was huge? I’m from the UK
We all enjoy rehashing here.., so I never get tired of saying that Beyond suffered from a pointless plot with a confusing antagonist
Audience… even some hardcore fans like me… had to struggle to understand his anger… his transformation into a lizard bad guy…. it had to be explained and defended “afterwards” ad-nausem online for weeks following the release of the movie
All the actors did fine with the material
But the movie was called “beyond” for no apparent reason
No exploration of the galaxy. No thought provoking excitement of the infinite universe
Just another movie where the Enterprise gets its ass handed to itself and a confusing arbitrary bad guy is bent on questionable revenge
Oh, that’s bad news. Really! Maybe they could hire Chris Pratt as George Kirk and Chris Wood as Jim Kirk, to replace Pine and Hemsworth. There are plenty of actors called Chris to solve this crisis.
And once you’re at it, fire Zack Quinto and replace him with Chris Messina as Spock. Replace Karl Urban with Chris Dougherty. They might even get rid of Pegg and hire Chris Doohan as Scotty. Chris Pang would be wonderful as Sulu.And Chris Colfer could be the new Chekov! Christina Milian might play Uhura.
No, seriously, this puts Trek 4 in serious jeopardy and might speed up development on the Tarantino front. Not sure what to make of this…
Okay, maybe Chris Conner is the better choice for Bones after all :-)
I think recasting the actors who won’t take the cut- especially Pine, then by all means recast them. In fact, do it anyways. Pine is no Kirk IMO. Shatner was toned w/ biceps you could see through his torn shirt, and had a square face that matched perfectly w/ the mature demeanor he had. Pine has none of those things. His face has a teenage look that has not gone away as I thought it eventually would. I kept thinking, “He’ll look older in the next one,” but still, he has that teenage look. He would have been perfect playing Kirk in the academy days, but not Captain of the Enterprise, and CERTAINLY not an Admiral as was hinted in Beyond.
Well IMO, I can’t tell a difference between Pine’s Captain Kirk and his Steve Trevor.
With the exception of Urban, who nailed the part of McCoy, it really wouldn’t bother me if the rest of the cast were replaced.
Just get a Chris Hemsworth look alike. No one will know the difference.
Quick, there’s only ONE guy who can fill out that empty Captain’s chair if this can’t be resolved…NuKirk in his ‘elderly’ form by way of the Shat!
Some unexplained anomaly has transformed the good NuCaptain into his aged ‘future self’ when we next encounter the Kelvin crew…and Quinto and co. have to deal with this unnerving turn of events during their latest adventure with whatever adversary, as they try to find a way to undo his predicament. Certain TOS fans around the world rejoice, and hijinks ensue as this elderly form of the NuCaptain keeps the NuCrew on their toes with a huge sense of fun throughout, despite his predicament. Against the odds, the adversary is overcome by the movie’s end…and a solution to restore the good NuCaptain to his former younger self will only present itself in the follow-up movie if Pine agrees terms with the studio. ;)
Nevertheless, I was actually interested in how a Pine/Hemsworth team-up would pan out, and a random recasting of Nu-Kirk and his dad would really mess things up in the JJ-verse more than they already are. Rather than have that unfortunate scenario, I’d prefer the NewCrew be seen to be under a new, different NuCaptain instead…due to NuKirk’s insubordinate tendencies having resulted in some Starfleet-imposed ‘shore leave’ for him in this ‘timeline’!
On the other hand, if this doesn’t get resolved with Pine’s involvment after all, then maybe it’s just best to fast-track the Tarantino storyline instead, which might generate enough interest to help compensate for any necessary recasting of Pine’s role in that…
‘Star Trek:The Search For Kirk’ begins here it seems.
The reason this is news is because the studio is deliberately going public with this as a negotiating ploy. Just watch — this will be resolved now before too much time passes so as not to effect the start of shooting in the first quarter of 2019. Look for Pine and Hemsworth to take a minor cut to resolve this, because I think both kind of need this movie.
I think Pine might need it more than Hemsworth, Hemsworth has got Thor and can still play that role for many more years. Pine on the other has Wonder Woman but he is more of a supporting character there so if he wants to lead something it is Star Trek.
Let’s be honest, none of these people ‘need’ it. Unless they are just burning cash like Johnny Depp on one of his islands they are probably both set up for a long, long time.
But I think you’re right in the sense Hemsworth has his big franchise which is Thor. I highly doubt he thought he would ever be in Star Trek again after getting killed off ten minutes into the first movie. But hey, that’s the beauty of Hollywood, you never know when you might get that call for something you thought you were done with for good (ask Patrick Stewart about both X Men AND Star Trek). And this is most likely a one and done situation. I highly doubt he’s going to be part of the franchise here on out so he can move on.
Pine on the other hand, Star Trek made him. Outside of Wonder Woman, all this biggest films have been these movies. He’s a GREAT actor so he won’t be hurting for roles but in reality he gets more supporting roles because the few he starred in never made any real money. The biggest two that come to mind was that Jack Ryan reboot film (it was OK) and the boat movie which I can’t remember the title to save my life lol. I never seen it but that was actually his biggest movie he starred in since Star Trek and before Wonder Woman. And that bombed big.
Neither of these guys are really main stars because frankly outside of Marvel and Star Trek their films have done poorly. But they happen to be pretty decent actors so they will always have decent roles but Star Trek is probably where Pine gets his biggest pay checks and its probably not going to be many left at the rate they are going. I’m guessing something will be worked out.
I think Hemsworth is done as Thor tbh ( apart from future cameos maybe ). Outside of THOR, all his movies bomb.
Pine on the other hand has won kudos for his smaller roles, and stage work ( as well as massive hits like Wonder Woman ).
Imo, Hemsworth needs it more than Pine.
Thor 3 made $800 million last year. Infinity war made $2 billion. If he gets even one-half percent for IW and around five percent for Ragnarok (being the star) not including the already $20 million salary to do both of them, he’s already cleared $40-$60 million between these two films alone in the last 8 months. How well you do in the last year?
Why are you being rude?
I’m not, I’m just disagreeing that he ‘needs it more’. No matter what they offer him for this movie, it may not be close to the money he’s going to make with his meager percentage of the IW movies. He’s been in so many and they made so much money I wouldn’t be shocked he’s made close to hundred million starring in those alone. We know RDJ passed that mark eons ago.
Which is probably why he doesn’t care if he’s in the film or not. But it is a strange dichotomy where clearly you think you’re being cheated by not getting all the money promised that could be into the millions but yet rich enough you can still afford to turn down millions without blinking. Very few people would know what it’s like to be in that position.
No matter what these guys probably don’t have to work a day in their life anymore.
Just an FYI – I like Tiger2, but don’t ever expect him to backtrack or take accountability for anything outlandish or unnecessarily personal towards you that he posts. Once he “says something” here, he considers that essentially 100% correct for all eternity no matter is if it was one of his more thoughful posts, or one of his “brain-fart” exaggeration that has you scratching you head and saying, “are you kidding me?”.
Also, when you challenge stuff that he says, “buckle up” for his rather silly fake exasperation and some minor personal attacks comments from him. It’s kind of funny – I enjoy it when he tries that. ;-)
Thank you BorgKlingon – I am just going to ignore him next time.
You’re more than welcome to ignore me. I wasn’t trying to be rude, but tone is hard on the internet. I was being honest though, these guys are multi millionaires in the double digits. Hemsworth case it could be triple now. I was trying to make the point these guys live waaaaay beyond what we do. To say he needs it is like saying Tom Cruise needs another Mission Impossible movie to buy another yacht.
But of course I didn’t mean to offend you and I’m sorry that I did. But I don’t blame you for ignoring me still just the same. I’m a big boy. Take it easy.
I didn’t say anything outlandish. You think I’m making up he’s a millionaire multiple times over thanks to Marvel? Explain where I’m wrong? What’s ‘outlandish’ is the idea he ‘needs’ this movie. I said this in my post, none of these guys ‘need it’ anymore. Or that he needs it more than Pine. Hemsworth has also starred in a lot more films than Pine as well.
I just thought it was funny Spock Jones treated it like its was something desperate he needed and I doubt anyone here, including him, has made 1% of what he has this year. Here is another outlandish shocker, I didn’t make as much as him either.
But if Spock Jenkins has made millions this year, then I apologize for being wrong on that. And I would love a small loan but he’s no longer talking to me so I missed my chance.
Why the need to make this personal with Spock Jenkins???
Why don’t you follow Spock Jenkins direction and ignore me as well. That would make all parties happy and a lot less moaning lol.
@Tiger2. Where would be the fun in that?
While your habit of doubling down when you say bonehead things and insist they are rational, irritates the heck out of me, you say a lot of interesting things on this site, some of which I agree with. I certainly don’t dislike you. You seem like a good Star Trek fan.
Besides I can be annoying say stupid stuff too. Perhaps a difference between us is that I can admit to that when I need to?
I seriously don’t care. If there was an ignore button, you wold certainly be on it. I don’t think you’re a bad guy either, OK, but you are annoying.
Just stop doubling down on things you say that any objective person would conclude was an “over-reach” or “significant exaggeration”. None of us are 100% right all the time. Just acknowledge it and move on…no harm, no foul. (-:
Stop whining or ignore my posts. You come off like a kid here constantly moaning to others they should apologize or acknowledge something they said to you in another thread like you’re in elementary school. You actually did it again in this thread. Or calling on Pascale to help you if someone says something you don’t like.
Notice no one else here remotely cares what I say or how I say it as long as I’m not attacking anyone over it, just you. They understand what an opinion is even if they disagree with it and as long as no one is personally attacked for theirs you should learn the difference. And I been here seven years, how long you been here sport?
Stop telling me what I can or can’t say here! Period. IGNORE MY POSTS if you don’t like it, that’s as good as it’s going to get. Jesus you’re annoying.
Oh for Christ’s sake, you had just said you didn’t care, and now more personal attacks…”sport”…”I’ve been here 7 years”. How is that not caring???
Whatever. You are obviously not going to take accountability for your infrequent “brain-farts” here…I get that now. It is what it is and I accept that you are obtuse and that you are not going to change. I GIVE UP ON EXPECTING YOU TO BE REASONABLE.
THIS IS MY LAST POST on this now silly thread. You seem to have some issue with one-upsmanship on getting the last post in even though you keep claiming you “don’t care”…so go ahead and have the last word here and I promise I will not respond…whine more and insult me personally again…”PLEASE SIR, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER?”
Your last post, finally something you said that mattered to me and I can finally move on. There was almost less moaning too…almost. Go away now.
That exchange made my morning. LOL
For the record, Tiger, there are two names on my self imposed “ignore” list. One hasn’t posted in months (could be a number or reasons why). And there is a third who is sitting on the cusp of my personal “ignore” list. I still wish there was an “ignore” function here as well. I suggested it in the feedback section many many months ago.
An ignore button would go a long way here for sure. People like above I wouldn’t hesitate at this point. I come here to have a discussion, not to appease people who come off offended over how I said something, especially in the context of a TV show for pete’s sakes. If you can’t just disagree with it for some reason, fine, ignore me and move on then. Telling me what to say and how to say it will ONLY make me want to ignore YOU! It’s so eye rolling.
Oh and I think I know the other person you’re talking about who stopped posting here. It looks like they moved to another board. I saw their handle there recently.
Right on schedule…I was saying to myself, “ML 14 will now post on this within 24 hours.” Cha-ching! LOL
What are you cha-chinging about? There are absolutely zero posts from ML 14?
Disinvited… Pretty sure he was referring to me. But it doesn’t matter anymore. I’ve got him on my self imposed “ignore” list. Any post with his name on it will be skipped by my eyes.
Well, regardless, his inattention to details resulted in him being wrong, yet again.
I don’t think so, I heard he enjoyed working with Taika Waititi so much in Thor Ragnarok that he is now considering doing perhaps a couple of more with him if he is willing to come back to direct them again. I have a feeling out of all the original MCU actors Hemsworth as Thor has the biggest chance of coming back in a major way even if Marvel decides to go in a different direction for its upcoming movies.
Oh cool, did not know anout the Taila Waititi news.
Some people just don’t like be challenged with their own words here. When someone here notices that I got carried away with something I previously said, I just acknowledge that and move on. What’s the big freaking deal with admitting you obviously over-reached a bit on something? The level of pride regarding insistence they can never be wrong by some here is off the charts and approaching “Trump-like” bufoonishness. Sheesh!
“both Chris Pine and Chris Hemsworth have balked at Paramount’s attempt to renegotiate previous deals”
Curiousi Cadet and Disinvted owe me an apology for claiming a couple of months back that I was incorrect in saying that Hemsworth was aleady signed to be in this movie. Obviously, I was right in what I originally said on that topic here — this is confirmed now here since Paramount is now trying to cut the price of Hemsworth’s deal
I’m kind of surprised Saldana’s contract appears to be working out for this one — I thought if there was going to be any contract issue, that would be the one given her A-list status now.
Yep, she’s the biggest box office star amongst the group ( Avatar, Guardians, of the Galaxy, and Trek ).
Re: Hemsworth’s contract
That’s not what our bone of contention was at all. We took you to task for making the outlandish claim on May 14, 2018 12:55 pm that Hemsworth was “fully contracted” which we pointed out would mean that they had gone beyond the standard option contract and fully paid him his fee to appear in STAR TREK 4.
Note THE HOLYWOOD REPORTER reports:
“The two actors were in negotiations to star in Star Trek 4 but sources say that talks between the two actors and the companies making the new installment, Paramount Pictures and Skydance Media, have fallen apart, with both sides walking away from the table.”
How do you account for Hemsworth, who you claimed was already fully contracted to star in STAR TREK 4 back in May, now being in negotiations to star in a film that you claimed he already was paid his full fee to star in?
Also, how do you explain Paramount negotiating a pay cut with him if they already paid him? Are you trying to suggest that you now believe Paramount is asking Hemsworth to return a portion of his fee to help finance a film that you claimed Paramount would have no problem financing?
Re: Hemsworth’s contract
THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER also reports
“Hemsworth has been attached to Trek 4 since Paramount, then run by the previous regime headed by Brad Grey, announced the fourth installment in 2016, although his exact status remains murky.”
I in no way find “murky” equivalent to “fully contracted.”
Maybe if they’d bothered to market Beyond they wouldn’t have this problem.
I call it bulls**t.
They can’t do without Chris, Zachary, Zoe and the others.
Hemsworth on the other hand isn’t necessary. I’d rather then pay the regular cast accordingly than overinflate quest stars.
This is simply the actors trying to get the best pay packet they can. Pine will do it, 98.9%.
What’s this idea that Hemsworth is home box office draw? Outside of playing Thor, he’s a complete and total failure as a leading draw. In The Heart Of The Sea, Black Hat, Rush, 12 Strong, Ghostbusters, Vacation…all flops. He ought to be taking scale.
Forget about Kirk and father, if there’s one thing I’ve learnt from the comments here, people want more Spock. Let’s have a Spock centred storyline for a change.
So, apparently none of the talent has been contacted yet except for Pine and Quinto, and the studio is trying to renegotiate that?
I’ve taken a ration of s**t for refusing to read between the lines…so what do I know?? What he have is EXACTLY what Paramount has been telling us all along. This is still ‘in development’.
Keep Pine, but recast Hemsworth. Or pay them both what Hemsworth got for the MIB reboot.
No it said all the others including Quinto have gone through negotiations.They are mostly done. It’s only Pine and Hemsworth whose putting up a front.
The quote above says “are expected to close.” So it’s not done, yet. It could mean that they are close to being finished. But it could also just mean that they expect less trouble in negotiating with these actors.
LOL I think I misread Phil’s post. I’m guessing he meant they haven’t been contracted yet. I literally thought he meant they haven’t been contacted about it as if no one has even talked to them about it which was odd. Makes sense now.
Sorry, but until there’s a signature on a contract, there’s nothing done.
Yep. We learned this with Raimi’s nearly-produced Spider-Man 4/5. They were pretty close to establishing a shooting schedule when Sony ultimately decided not to go ahead because all the returning talent would be too expensive. (Although this could have had to do with the script, as well.) (And of course later they ended up spending crazy amounts for Amazing 2…whose lack of profitability ultimately pushed them to abandon *that* series and partner with Marvel!)
But Paramount is not in nearly as good of a situation as Sony; they have issues in development, PR, home media, everything. It sounds awful to say this, but here I can see both sides of this debate. I’d like to see the movie made…but wouldn’t be surprised if they scrap it and just develop Tarantino’s concept for later.
@ Engaging – Paramount is in much better shape now then they were a year ago, but that’s because they got 332MM in revenue from the 17MM budgeted A Quiet Place….not break even results from Trek and Transformer movies. In that they are pinching the talent for contract concessions, that’s a big tip off that moving forward, they don’t ever see Trek doing much more then 300MM in box office.
Just drop Hemsworth, he’s clearly the bigger star and will be demanding the most money. We don’t need to see a George Kirk time travel movie. Pine is the only one of the two required to go ahead.
Well, they can always age up Pine via CGI or prosthetics and get him to play his father.
Pine is the only essential hire they need. Paramount need to pay up again they have made billions from this franchise yet always think the next one should be cheaper! Just give them both some backend Gross points to resolve this!
I would recast without batting an eye. Pine is NOT Shatner. He is the guy who took over the role FROM Shatner.
Pine did not make the role of Kirk iconic. Shatner did.
Pine is NOT a Star Trek legend.
Recast. Problem solved.
Be honest though, no matter who they cast you’re never going to accept them as Kirk. Pine plays Kirk well IMO. No not like Shatner but I like that it does feel different.
If you want honesty, I agree with you. I do accept Pine as Kirk. But he is no Shatner–no one ever will play that role as well as the man that made it legendary. That doesn’t mean Pine did a bad job. I thought he made a fine Kirk. But PINE isn’t anywhere near as vital to the role as Shatner was, and is much more replaceable.
It’s easier to replace the replacement than to replace the original.
Alright fair enough!
Pine is a big reason why they get as much box office as they do recasting is not the way to go here. Paramount need to pay up and honour the contract he signed for Trek 3 + 4!
@Paul — why? Pine didn’t honor the contract he signed for 1-3, despite #2 underperforming. He and Quinto through a wrench in the works demanding massive fee increases just before #3 went into production.
And no, Pine is not likely the main box office draw for the KU films …
This is true CC. IIRC Pine actually took Paramount to court because he said his last deal was now invalid because his contract expired thanks to the delay of the third movie. They both got fat raises over it and probably pushed the movie into a higher budget stratosphere the film originally wasn’t suppose to have. And then it bombed.
So I think Paramount is still a bit peeved about it and why they don’t want to pay him more this time because he cornered them after the last film was already going into production so they had no choice and it under-performed anyway.
Unfortunately for Paramount, the KU Trek needs Pine more than Pine needs KU Trek.
@ Curious Cadet. Pine & Quinto were both asked by Paramount to sign a deal for 3 & 4! He did not demand more money they asked him for a 2 picture deal as they thought Beyond was going to be a bigger hit than it turned out due to poor marketing! There was even an article on this about that in 2016 or late 2015 I believe! Pine only got 600K for 2009, 1.5M for STID & 3M for Beyond. He is due to get 6M for ST4 so its not unfair for him to take a little pay cut to help the movie get made (Shatner and Nimoy did this to get ST6 made).
@Paul — read the linked Hollywood reporter article, as your facts aren’t quite right.
Pine and Quinto renegotiated their contracts claiming they were being taken advantage of, despite the contract they signed in good faith, and Paramount managed to get the 4th film commitment in exchange for the fee increase for #3.
Respectfully, Pine is not the draw–the franchise is. Star Trek movies are not Chris Pine movies. He was good. He did a good job with the role, but the franchise doesn’t stop for him.
Perhaps, but you have to be honest with yourself that the franchise is a limited draw. If the studio is now pinching the talent for a haircut on their pay, that’s a concession that they don’t think Trek is capable of much more then 300MM worldwide revenue. It’s also setting expectations if QT actually does get the green light to proceed with his Trek project – there’s no way he gets much more then 110MM for his project.
I don’t know if there’s anything wrong with that though. I think Star Trek’s appeal is to the American audience, and it should be made with a budget and story with that in mind. The Abrams movies have been less traditional and more effects driven. I don’t think Abrams is the right guy for the job. His passion is Star Wars, and I don’t think he has done a great job there either. I am not even exciting for Episode IX.
But in Star Trek, he seemed to make a Star Wars type movie, with Kirk and Spock.
Star Trek movies SHOULD have action, but they need to write the characters in character. The characters themselves do not need major updating–especially Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
I think that affected the box office. I think they SHOULD cut the budget. Less effects, more story. Ultimately, it comes down to the writers. They can take lessons from Star Trek Continues.
Don’t underestimate the international audience for Trek, while I agree its not as popular overseas, we do still exist and I am a proud international Trekkie :))
And that’s great, but I would bet that a movie that catered to American audiences wouldn’t turn you off. That assumes of course, that the movie is good.
If you’re a fan of the original series, you might even like it better.
At this point they have no choice but to cut the budget. Even STID basically just broke even. It definitely made the most money but with a nearly $200 million budget at the time my guess is Paramount was hoping it at least crack $500 million. I’m guessing they were hoping for $600 million at the time.
The films do prove while they have an international audience, they are just not big enough to compete with other franchises. Trek is just a more middle tier franchise, that’s just the reality. I think Paramount hoping a film is going to suddenly hit The Dark Knight box office is unrealistic. Sadly Trek has a nerdy reputation and while trying to turn it into Star Wars may get a few more people than before, the films hasn’t created a much bigger fanbase than the same old fans. More for sure but they aren’t committed either which is the problem. The first two looked like it was forming that but then those people didn’t seem excited about Beyond at all and seem like most of the new fans has bolted.
Discovery seems to prove the same thing, at least in America. It’s only gotten about 2.5 million subs on All Access which is small and my guess is the overwhelming majority watching it are old fans. But that’s still young to attract new fans like TNG did back in the day.
I don’t really know what to say about CBSAA. I understand CBS wanting to get into the streaming biz. Unfortunately for CBS Trek is the only property that will get a number of subscribers to pay immediately. Star Trek is big, but not as big as other franchises. That’s just a fact. And 2.5 million subscribers at its peak just doesn’t cover what they were hoping. I think your guess is right. The overwhelming majority of STD subscribers are older Trek fans. And I think it possible there are other older Trek fans who just never knew STD even existed. Let alone CBSAA. Then a good many of those who MIGHT have subscribed probably ended up not doing so because of word of mouth about the series. It is a good thing Netflix is footing the bulk of the bill for this because if they weren’t I just don’t see Trek working on a streaming service. That said, I still think the best place for a new Trek show on CBS is Showtime. I think they ought to have started there first THEN migrate the STEU over to CBSAA. Of course, that is still dependent on STD being good. Which the first season wasn’t to many.
(see what I did there?!)
“Beyond” spent a huge amount of money on a publicity campaign that could have been better (e.g. it didn’t capitalize on the 50th anniversary aspect). Perhaps less money on that type of campaign and more money on the stars?
They will get them, there are other things they can offer them, a producer slot or something on the back end or residuals. They will get them.
Pretty much what I was thinking…
However, I knew this was going to be an issue when they announced Hemsworth returning… too big of a price tag for both at this point.
Now, the studio has three problems:
1. Creating a storyplot to explain the missing Chekov situation (since Anton’s passing)…replacing the character, attempting to recast, etc.?
2. Pony up some more money for both Pine and Hemsworth and risk the film not performing well enough to recoup the money invested
3. Keep Pine and dump Hemsworth – recast the George Kirk character to accommodate the story-line already laid out. OR keep Hemsworth on as a cameo for the character in a younger age scene and move forward with an alternate actor for the aged version.
#1 isn’t a problem. It’s simple, just needs one line of dialogue. “The bridge isn’t the same since Chekov transferred.” DONE.
#2 and #3 aren’t problems. They are two possible choices of action, but not problems.
If Pine doesn’t sign write Kirk as beaming up from a planet, an accident makes him age prematurely, and Shatner appears on the platform all while the Romulans are approaching tge Enterprise!
Star Trek: The Deadly Years, Kelvin Style
This movie needs Pine.
omg Mr Shatner is that YOU ?! ;)
But I also think the movie could be made by recasting. No one is irreplacable and I can think of a dozen potential replacement actors for him.
Pay Pine and go away Hemsworth. Problem solved!!
I keep reading on this thread how poorly Beyond performed. I think it’s my favorite of the three Kelvin timeline films. STID could have been the best except for that terrible copy and paste ending of the original TWOK.
@USSEXETER — box office performance often has nothing to do with quality. The match is simple — BEY cost more and grossed less than STID. Most of that was simply timing of release, no compelling box office draws, and poor marketing PR by cash strapped Paramount. I agree it was a pretty decent film.
What’s happening is that Paramount is spending big money on Trek, and a cast that hasn’t really broken out on their own, yet they keep making movies with them with ever increasing budgets. Some would say that’s the definition of insanity.
Whether you agree or not, once saddled with the cast they have, with no major box office draws among them, they need the thing STAR TREK has always lacked — a major celebrity. If the franchise itself isn’t enough to get audiences excited, then cast Ryan Reynods, or Scarlett Johansson. Bad Robot is no help here as they have gained a reputation as a producer who notoriously goes over budget with little accountability. BEY went $35MM overbudget, and I just don’t see it on the screen.
The solution is simple… bring back Pine, jettison Hemsworth. I was never keen on a story that brought back George Kirk anyway. Jim Kirk laid his father issues to rest satisfactorily in Beyond.
MAY I REMIND THE LEGION OF TREK FANS, ONE OF WHICH I AM. MR.PINE appeared in a little PSA on the empowering of women,in which if I’m not mistaken this film(TREK4) has hired it’s first female feature film director. However, if all lines of communication fail, I say stay on budget, scheduled release, and re-cast 2 actors more than willing!!!
Um…okay… Are you feeling okay?
Thee is no scheduled release. Clarkson has a letter of intent (meaning if Paramount pulls the plug tomorrow, she’s free to pursue other projects), and according to this article, none of the remaining cast is under contract except for Quinto. Quinto, may I remind you, continues to talk of this project in terms of ‘if it’s made’….this project is far from a lock at this point.
Just reduce the budget and eliminate unnecessary set pieces.
I do think that Paramount has a point. Outside of MCU, Chris Hemsworth is not a box office draw. Almost all of his non-MCU movies were box office flops: Blackhat, Rush, In the Heart of the Sea, Ghostbusters, The Huntsman: Winter’s War, 12 Strong, Red Dawn & The Cabin in the Woods.
Same story with Chris Pine, outside of Star Trek and his only DC movie so far, all of his movies were flops: Jack Ryan: Shadow Recruit, Into the Woods, The Finest Hours, A Wrinkle in Time, The Princess Diaries 2, Unstoppable, This Means War & Horrible Bosses 2.
No Kirk, no Chekhov………no interest! Yuge pass on this steaming pile!