Report: Michelle Yeoh In Talks For Star Trek Section 31 Series

Coming just a couple weeks after an animated Star Trek series was announced, another Star Trek TV series could be in the works, this time a direct spin-off from Star Trek: Discovery. 

Star Trek: Section 31?

Deadline is reporting exclusively that CBS is in talks with actress Michelle Yeoh to lead a new Star Trek TV series. First appearing in Star Trek: Discovery’s 2-part pilot where her character of Captain Georgiou was killed off, Yeoh still returned a number of times during the first season, most notably playing Geogiou’s Mirror Universe counterpart. Yeoh and both of her characters have proven to be popular with fans and the actress is also riding high as one of the stars of the current hit movie Crazy Rich Asians.

The CBS plan would be for Yeoh to play her Emperor Georgiou character, in her capacity as an operative for Section 31. Yeoh is already set to appear in the second season of Discovery and was featured in the NYCC trailer in her Section 31 outfit. According to the report, the Yeoh Star Trek show is in the early planning stages, but “looks likely to focus on a continuation of her Discovery Season 2 adventures in Starfleet’s Section 31 division.” There is no indication yet if they are looking at this show as a limited or ongoing series.

Secret agent Georgiou may be getting her own show

CBS has been talking about more Star Trek and Yeoh

CBS is not commenting officially on the report from Deadline and so far there are no corroborating stories in the other trades like Variety or The Hollywood Reporter. However, a Yeoh-led Discovery spinoff would be consistent with comments made the producers in charge of Star Trek’s expanding television universe as well as CBS executives. In fact back in August CBS executive vice president for original content Julie McNamara not only confirmed they were considering Discovery spinoffs but said one headed by Michelle Yeoh had been discussed. And just last month, CBS brought Michelle Yeoh to the New York Comic Con panel as a surprise guest.

Michelle Yeoh at New York Comic Con in October (CBS)

And just last week acting CBS CEO Joe Ianniello briefed investors on the expanding plans for Star Trek, also noting that more was to come, saying:

All Access will continue to be home to all things Star Trek. And we are expanding the franchise in a big way. Star Trek: Discovery was an international sensation, and we’ll be launching season 2 on January 17. In addition, we’ll have a new separate Star Trek scripted series starring the legendary Patrick Stewart, who will reprise his role as the beloved Captain Jean-Luc Picard; also, a new Star Trek adult animated series called Lower Decks, which has landed in CBS All Access with a two-year pickup. And we expect to have more Star Trek announcements coming shortly.

One could also now read a bit more into an Instagram post Yeoh made following her appearance at New York Comic Con last month. In it, she simply wrote “Section 31,” which could mean more than just sharing her character’s new look.

View this post on Instagram

Section 31 🖖🏻🖖🏻🖖🏻 @startrekcbs

A post shared by Michelle Yeoh 楊紫瓊 (@michelleyeoh_official) on

TrekMovie will report any updates on this developing story.

Keep up with all the news on the upcoming Star Trek TV shows here at


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I’ll say it for everybody: Uh, WHAT??????

I am almost speechless. They weren’t kidding when they said more Star Trek was coming. And a Section 31 show on top of it starring MU Georgiou? Man, that’s crazy lol. But if this is true, then they must have some big things brewing next season on Discovery and Section 31!

I don’t know how the overall fanbase feels about this but IF it’s true I’m excited!!! Section 31 can tell the seedier side stories of the Federation. AND they can do stories in the 23rd century Discovery can’t do because of canon. We can get Romulan stories. Bring in the Cardassian! Even the Borg! MU Georgiou wrecking havoc all over the alpha quadrant can go on multiple seasons lol.

Discovery, the Picard show, Lower Decks animated comedy and now Section 31? Star Trek is certainly getting more interesting. I give it three months before they announce a Borg show. Can’t wait to see the comments lol! ;)

I can say I am not a fan of Yeoh, or her character, regular or Mirror. She worked in DSC, but as a full series? Not sold.

That said, I can just not watch it if it’s not for me. This strikes me as a case where CBS is trying to do a Trek show for every demographic. DSC I think will quickly become something more for the masses with Season 2, The Yeoh Show will become the dark and gritty Trek, Picard will be the show for the 90s fans, and the animated show will be the Family Guy/Rick & Morty audience.

Question I have is– what’s next?

It was said a while ago they are looking at all characters for potential spinoffs and talking with the actors. Maybe this is just and old rumor brought back to life.

I don’t know if I see Discovery for the masses to be honest with you. It just felt too insulated for me with how the first season was told. It all felt like stuff for fanboys like the Klingon war and then the MU. And it felt pretty gritty to me. I don’t remember any Trek show where the Klingons ate a Captain lol. Maybe season 2 will feel more open though if the stories are a bit more general and open. My hope at least.

The other shows we’ll have to see. The Picard show really seems like the only one that has excited the base in a major way. It was reported on local news across the country. The animated show could be really good of course but I think people are afraid it may come out too silly. But I admire them for taking a leap so I’m staying positive about it for now. With this show, well you can already see the responses lol. But yeah we do have to hear more before everyone decides they won’t watch it or burn their Star Trek blu rays in protest.

As for what’s next? Man, I won’t even try to guess lol. Anything but Khan (ugh) hopefully. But they all been a complete surprise. We knew about the Picard show but I was convinced that was nothing more than a rumor. And it was no way they get Stewart back. Glad to be proven wrong on that at least.

Key words from my comment you skipped “quickly becoming.” I think Season 2 will be a course correction, and ultimately will attempt to draw the audiences watching Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, and Stranger Things (no I don’t think it will ever reach similar levels of popularity).

Yeah we’ll see! Hope so.

“And it felt pretty gritty to me. I don’t remember any Trek show where the Klingons ate a Captain lol.”

Schrödinger’s captain. At this time prime Georgiou is both dead and alive. The writers left enough hints that Georgiou survived if you look into it.

I have to agree, she’s already overused.

” This strikes me as a case where CBS is trying to do a Trek show for every demographic.”

Of course they are. That was the plan from the start.

“Question I have is– what’s next?”

They already said they were working on a Starfleet Academy show. Not official yet, however.

They actually announced anything though. Talks happen all the time, story pitches and ideas get banded about, but its nothing concrete.
Even the animated show is likely not set in stone for production to begin.
Really it’s only the Picard show that is definitely now happening and gearing up for active production in the new year. Everything else is still likely to be just speculation and talk. This is my feeling at the moment.

The animated show is indeed announced and happening. This one, for now, is just rumor. That’s why it’s hard for me to cast any kind of judgement. That said, pretty much every rumor reported by these outlets has come to fruition.

And when I say “these outlets” i’m referring to places like Variety, and Hollywood Reporter, not Midnight’s Edge. The only one reported widely that we have not heard anything on is Nick Meyer’s “Mystery Project.”

As Afterburn said, the animated show is definitely happening. In fact they already guaranteed it two seasons. No other Star Trek show has been guaranteed two seasons from the start before, so it’s definitely official. They even gave it a title. We’re still waiting on what the Picard show will even be called.

Since it’s animation it’s much cheaper to produce. That means a smaller financial risk even if CBS commits to 2 seasons at once.

It’s also quite common for streaming and cable shows to get a two season order up front. The streamer or cable channel can also have an option for that 2nd season. This is pretty easy to do with short season shows.

Several years ago, I stated that I thought CBS wanted to turn Star Trek into a brand like NCIS. — Remember when they talked about a hospital in space and the MACO? That’s what this section 31 is. Everyone here including me was hoping for a Star Wars universe, but this is television. So it’s clear CBS is not interested in creating more Star Trek, but simply using Star Trek to emulate the imprint of shows like Law and Order, NCIS and others with multiple spinoffs.

How is doing multiple Star Trek spinoffs different from “creating more Star Trek”? This is how you get “more Star Trek.” If this is a complaint, I’m not sure what you’re complaining about.

Ummm please don’t speak for me. I really dislike when people write crap like that. You speak for yourself Tiger…you are the voice of all Trek fans.

It was just a joke lol. And it was both about having a S31 show but also that they are planning yet another show so soon. Anyway do you want to see a S31 show? I’m open to it but understand why others are skeptical.

Why not? Could be interesting.


I don’t understand this pessimism from supposed fans. Reading through the comments on Trekmovie, you would think that there are no fans in here. I always said that if Trek dies… it will be because of the unsupportive fanboys. It’s 2018, there is Trek on TV!!! Lots of it coming too! People should be happy. If they don’t like it, don’t frickin watch! They can go watch that wannabe, Orville.

Too many people want Trek to be in the for THEY like or want. That is the problem. I’ve said for years there is plenty of room to have different types of Trek shows if some organization was interested in footing the bill. Now we seem to be getting it. No one will likely think they are all good. Hell, no one thinks all the Trek we got was good! I like the idea of different tones, myself. And I’m not going to like every idea they produce. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to say they shouldn’t try.

I think people are happy there is more Star Trek, they just not happy with the people currently running it or the concepts. Look at the Picard show announcement, that got huge fanfare and praise from nearly everyone, especially people who just wanted Trek in the 24th century again. So I think people are still excited about Star Trek when its an idea they like. That’s the problem, trying to come up with something that makes everyone happy and that’s not going to always be possible.

But I think most will definitely give Section 31 a chance. Most are just expressing why they don’t like the idea, but they will watch lol. The question is will they keep watching after a few episodes? That will probably be based on well the show is done itself like most shows.

I don’t give a damn who the showrunners are… I’m just happy that it’s 2018 and there is new Trek on TV.
To be honest, there are more haters on this site than there are fans. These fanboys that think they can do Trek better than anything produced…it really is getting annoying. It’s always so negative. So you didn’t like season 1…then don’t watch it anymore. What’s the point of continually bad-mouthing it and saying the exact same thing post after post. I’ve stopped reading the comments these days. The only reason I actually commented was because it was the first one. But I’ve been turned off of this site because on the nonstop whining from the fanboys.

Well I don’t either but that’s all you hear on so many boards, some people hate Berman, others hate Abrams, Harsberts and Berg before they got fired, etc. Harve Bennet seems to be the only one that ran the franchise for a few years unscathed lol. But I think that colors a lot of opinions here too, fair or not.

And if you think there is too much negativity here, I understand but this is the internet. Imagine being a Star Wars fan right now lol. The things people say about Kathleenn Kennedy and Rian Johnson makes us look civil, tame and agreeable by comparison. People are actively trying to get Kennedy fired. And AFAIK, Star Trek fans haven’t driven anyone from the franchise off of twitter (yet ;)). Even Bob Orci keeps coming here and that guy has been raked through the coals at time (love you Bob!).

So it could be much, much worse. ;)

I been here a looong time though, people come and go. Tone does change here and there. But I’m also on Reddit, that’s a much bigger site and people are more balanced there. They seem to have a love of all Trek although you will definitely find harsh critics but they don’t dominate the site. It is definitely more gushers than complainers overall, especially for the 24th century shows. People even love Enterprise lol. I would at least check it out if you haven’t.

Oh and you can put people on ignore on Reddit too. I think that’s the only real issue about being on this site is that you can’t block the trolls or peoples posts you hate reading because they are so one sided or argumentative all the time. Luckily TM has banned some of the more worst cases in the last few months (and people I was personally ignoring) and I will at least say it’s a lot less petty bickering now. Look at this page. Even though it’s ‘negative’ here, people are being generally civil and respecting other opinions. No one is acting like a 5th grader bringing up arguments from past thread articles from months/weeks ago or calling each other names. At the end of the day that’s all I care about personally.

I don’t have an issue of people being negative, because I can be too as you know, but as long as you are civil, give sincere reasons of your issues (and not just to bait people to argue with you) and DON’T knock others because they do like something, that’s all you can ask for on the internet, frankly. And we know most places you rarely get all of those.

But yes an ignore button would go a long way but it is what it is.

I’ve been here almost since the beginning. It just seems to have got worse with each post. And it’s always the same whining every single time. It’s just starting to get really old. And I think the Trek fanboys whining has surpassed that of the Star Wars fanboys now.
I’m just reading the articles now and skipping the whining babies and their posts.
It’s a shame. People don’t get the fact that Trek is on TV in 2018… And that they are still making movies.
I’m far from being a gusher… I just like Trek. I think there are so many stories to tell so why not tell them? Take a look at all the Trek novels…I love that they fill in the gaps even though they are not considered canon.
The fanboy whining is comparable to someone that drinks orange juice every day and complains they don’t like the taste.

Ransom, at this point I just don’t know what to tell you. You do seem pretty bothered by it because unfortunately every post I see of yours this is all you talk about these days. I’m not kidding but I don’t think I’ve ever read a post of yours just discussing your actual feelings on the show itself. I mean I’m sure you wrote them but I don’t ever remember reading them. It seems to mostly just commenting on other people’s issues with it. Even when we talked in the past, it’s only because you don’t like my feelings about the show and that’s FINE! But then the few times I have actually agreed with you and attempted conversation, those got ignored.

My only advice is just to respond to like minded people who want to discuss the show more positively. Try that. And there are obviously plenty of people here who do that.

Or as you said just focus on the articles and avoid the message boards altogether. Hope not but that’s your choice. But this is just how the internet is. You’re not going to find ANY place that is all positive. And as the show gets better or people simply get use to it, those issues will be less important in time. But there will always be dissenters of some kind as every spin off has had it from TNG to Enterprise.

Actually, I haven’t posted in many, many months. Not since season 1 ended.
But perhaps you haven’t read my feelings on what I’ve thought of the show or episodes because the majority of comments you see me post on are the negative discussions where I also post my feelings on the whiners.
But then again, people that post something positive about the show usually leave it at that while the people that post negative comments tend to repeat those negative comments over and over in the same article.

Yeah I could’ve just missed those, I just don’t remember any. And to be fair the show has been off nearly a year (wow) so I can’t remember all those threads. But you’ve definitely been posting since season 1 ended lol. We’ve had a few discussions here in the last few months for sure. The season ended in February, I seen posts of yours up through September.

But OK, you don’t want to post as much anymore. I completely understand.

A section 31 show is long overdue. A look behind the the curtain of Federation diplomacy will do wonders for removing the day-glow utopia of TOS, by showing the ruthless sacrifices made by a morally bankrupt few to support the welfare of the whole.

Michelle Yeoh is brilliant. I’m so thankful to have discovered her through Star Trek, & I hope she does get her own show!

I follow a podcast that originates internationally, and represents a pretty mainstream geek audience (ie: marvel movie fans, comic fans, but not Trekkies) and they seemed pretty happy about the prospect of this series. They have a pretty big audience (1M on Youtube, can’t say about their podcast), and they have been fairly positive on Discovery to this point in general.

That’s why I don’t take this sites comments (or comments online in general on Trek-centric places) too seriously. Comments online are always going to be the most extreme ends of the spectrum, because only people who completely love or completely hate a thing are going to take the time to discuss it online.

This podcast for example, mentioned it only briefly, and when I talk to people at work, or friends, who are not Trekkies, they all seem fairly positive on Discovery and the news coming out of the Trek franchise lately.

I for one will need to be very impressed by the animated series to be a regular viewer, and this S31 show had better be very enticing beyond Yeoh.

I really hate Section 31. It’s one of the worst things to happen to Star Trek as far as I’m concerned. Talk about retconing canon to introduce something as big as section 31 which was never once mentioned in TOS…

I love Yeoh, but I have no interest in seeing this. Unfortunately I’m not sure what’s left for her except another prequel to DISC.

Discovery has already been retconning TOS from day one. We already knew S31 was coming next season. This is WHY I hate prequels, because that’s what they do a lot of, retconning. Same time I have accepted that’s what was going to happen with DIS the second we heard Spock had a sister lol.

At least with S31, we know it will all be classified so they can get away with it and probably why they are doing it (if they are I mean) because now they don’t have to come up with silly ways to somehow explain why something out of canon happened, because when it comes to Section 31 everything they do is already outside of canon anyway.

And this is EASILY hundred times better than a Khan show (ugh).

Enterprise (“Divergence”) already established that Section 31 predated TOS.

I know that obviously. And in their first appearance on DS9 actually made them a part of Starfleet from the beginning. So that retcon has been in place literally since day one. I think what CC is saying is we never had a big foot print with them in this era, but that’s because there was no Section 31 on TOS. But thanks to the Enterprise, the Kelvin films and now Discovery, they are fully established in this era, so what can you do? S31 is already going to be part of the show next season, so that boat has already sailed anyway.

And people can’t be shocked now after you had three different productions retcon a lot of this era already since 2001. And have they watched Discovery??? What exactly is shocking about things being retcon at this point?

So if it’s true, I just hope its good.

We never had a big footprint with anything in this era other than the Enterprise. What’s the point of a prequel if we’re not allowed to tell new stories about new things in this era?

And thats the rub! That’s how prequels get into trouble with some fans. It just how far you go with it I guess but everyone will have a line somewhere. There are people literally bothered with bringing Spock on, but Spock is not only part of this period his ‘sister’ is now part of this era too, so you can’t be surprised a show based on the TOS era starring his sister would actually show him at SOME point, right? That’s why I would prefer to avoid them altogether because as DIS is proving, everyone seems to have a different parameter of what’s ‘OK’ to show or add in an established period, even for people who generally like Discovery.

And looking at this board, it seems to be S31 is that line with a lot of them. Which is funny because I have zero issues of seeing more S31 stories in the TOS era and I have a LOT of issues with DIS lol. But as I said in my OP they can explore things that would normally feel out of canon in this era like the Borg or the Romulans and yet technically be in canon at the same time. I honestly think this is a big reason why they want to have them in this era. Kind of best of both worlds IMO.

Discovery has been a Section 31 ship since day one. This isn’t retconning. It’s why they have black badges. We’ve all known the show has been about Section 31 since the first episode aired.

It seems unlikely that Discovery is a Section 31 ship. The writers probably thought about it but seemed to drop that thread after the third episode. I believe that is the only episode which actually showed the black badges on Discovery. If they are handing the crew awards for ending the war at a big ceremony, it seems unlikely that the ship is a Section 31 project.

I believe it was a regular ship that had S31 agents on it. But the black badges always bothered me. S31 was never said to have been out in the open. That’s why nobody had ever heard of them on DS9.

I mean, I guess we can say that during this era, they were more like the Men In Black– there are agents that operate less clandestinely, but never identify themselves, and rumors go around, stories swapped by people about these mysterious officers with black badges.


The black badges thing just makes NO sense. I don’t even understand why they came up with that, especially because the entire point of S31 was NOT to associate itself with Starfleet and yet they go around presenting a form of identification that is literally the symbol of the organization…but black. So how can Starfleet pretend like they have no association with these people if they are wearing their logo as a badge? I don’t understand how something was thought to be a good idea? It’s like a 12 year old came up with it.


Apparently, the black badge was QMC’s highest selling pin last year.

Can’t they just make a special black badge that ISN’T Section 31 if its to just sell merchandise? That’s not hard to do and it wouldn’t feel like a complete contradiction in their story telling. But this is why people are so skeptical of the Discovery show runners, they just throw random things in because it’s ‘cool’ or for a twist, not because it adds to the story in a meaningful way.

Would def rather see Yeoh in a Section 31 show than anything about freakin’ Khan. As Kirk ground out to the Klingon captain, “[Khan,]I … have had … enough … of you!”

Even though a Section 31 show with MU Georgiou is weird to say the least we can certainly say it’s original lol. Khan would just be rehashing things we ALREADY KNOW so I have zero desire to see that!

I’m actually feeling more optimistic it may not happen now. There are three shows potentially in the works but not one hint of a Khan show yet. I honestly thought that would be the first announcement out the gate. And unlike Picard and the animated show, this one a complete surprise if its true, so maybe they have dropped it?

I feel that way about the MU and Section 31. “I … have had … enough … of you!”

Just remember that the universe is huge and there are plenty of things we wouldn’t know about that universe based on 600 odd episodes.

It’s close to 800, actually.

I’m so glad someone else feels this way! It worked well dramatically in DS9 because it was such a revelation. Now it’s front and center all the time. Into Darkness, Enterprise, Discovery. I think it’s Trek at its most creatively desperate. It’s fan boy bulls***. I’d still watch religiously though. Ha ha

Absolutely. And in this political era, we NEED an optimistic Star Trek, just like back during TOS’ time. (The post-Cold War euphoria of TNG is gone.) A Section 31 series is the antithesis of what we need.

I think (or hope) the Picard show will be the more optimistic Star Trek like TNG did while it looks like DIS and this show will be the darker version of Trek, although season 2 of DIS does look a bit lighter than season one thankfully.

Of course when the Picard show comes around I guess we can’t be too surprised if show will deal with the Borg lol.

Even the TNG show that Paradise had its limits. For example the Maquis. Starfleet officers turning their backs on Starfleet. Even in a world full of Paradise, there will still be conflict and people who are against it. Even with DS9 and the Dominion war, it showed Starfleet fighting to maintain paradise. You can’t have Pure paradise and an idealistic federation when you people like the Borg, Romulans, Klingons and the Dominion fighting to ruin paradise.

Wow its like someone read my mind and typed the thoughts out for me lol.

Yeah, I agree completely and have said that here many times, especially when people say 24th century Trek is ‘boring’ because there it’s ‘paradise’ compared to the 23rd century. And I just wonder what Star Trek are they watching??? TNG didn’t have any less conflict than TOS did and in fact more so because there was nothing like the Borg roaming around the 23rd century. And also to add to your list are the Cardassians and Breen. Breen are only the third species in Trek to successfully attack Earth after the Xindi and Borg. Its further proof Starfleet didn’t have any less fires to put out in that century at all.

So I don’t have an issue with something like Section 31 existing. To me it only makes sense you would have a group like that. I get everyone likes the ideals of what Roddenberry made, but its unrealistic when in the SAME universe you have so many crazy groups running around whose goal is to collapse that ‘paradise’ you set your show around. They don’t even have a standing military, that’s nuts in itself!

That said it doesn’t mean we have to have stories around Section 31. I get that’s more the issue here. But their existence makes total sense to me. And apparently every Star Trek writer since their creation.

I think it’s fine having adversaries that threaten the ideals of the Federation, because you can then tell stories about Federation values. But when the focus is the villain, especially one as silly as the empress, then you can’t really tell those stories as your hero has become the villain. It’s like having a show about people who would crap things like the Refugee Convention and Universal Declaration on Human Rights on the basis they are carrying out a good act.

I’d also argue that the Klingons, Romulans and even Borg aren’t specifically trying to ruin paradise, but rather advance their own way of life. They all have far more depth than silly mirror universe caricatures.

They aren’t trying to ruin paradise anymore than Iran, North Korea or Cuba is trying to destroy western civilization but we still have everything from NATO to the U.N. to keep watch of these countries. And in cases of Romulans and Klingons, the Federation has gone to war with them in the past so it only make sense there would be covert operations to keep the peace.

In fact my own head cannon with Section 31 always came out of the idea they were formed as a reaction to the Romulan war just like the CIA was formed as a reaction to WW 2 in real life. Enterprise changed that idea but it correlates with our own history. Most of these covert groups and military alliances started as a response from a war EXACTLY like how the Federation itself was formed out of war. Federation is really just a 23rd century U.N. because Roddenberry took real world situations and applied it to Star Trek. Instead of Asisan demilitarized zones and communist blockades Star Trek got their Romulan, Klingon and Cardassian neutral zones as well.

But who actually oversees any of that? In the real world there is a lot of military, weapons and operatives who oversee these things on both sides. But in the world of Trek it’s the explorers who do it. It’s just not reality at all.

I think “Homefront/Paradise Lost” was one of the best storylines in all of 90s Trek, and showed how villains from outside can create villains within. More like that, please.

^^I agree with that, good stuff.

I actually believe DSC is slowly going to become the optimistic/fun, classic Trek show fans want. The vibe and tone for S2 already seems more tonally consistent with latter day Trek. We’ll see. I think that’s what producers wanted from DSC, but Fuller had already set the tone too firmly for them to change tack mid-season, and fan reaction to S1 was probably the nail in the coffin.

That said, I liked the dark tone, but I am not against them turning it into a more TNG style show with a more modern sensibility.

All this is just a hunch though, we won’t really know until we see Season 2.

Amen. I don’t think Kurtzman& co. know what Star Trek is truly about. But they do know how to pillage it for the masses in order to make money. I’ve had it.

Yeah. While I think the Picard series may be the exception, a lot of these projects (like the cartoon) scream Trek in name only. Brand building rather than truly advancing the values of the franchise.

It is possible to build a brand and remain true to it’s values. I know it isn’t the same but fashion brands do it a lot.

The trailers for Season 2 seem to suggest that the dark tone of Season 1 is gone. I’d say they are realigning the brand with more traditional Trek values.

What are your feelings on this show Ad Astra?

So far, not exactly being welcomed with open arms. ;)

Well, if Discovery and Picard stay true I will approve.

But to me the very concept of comedy cartoon and an Empress Georgiou show are now representative of the brand and its values.

I’ll be honest if they cancelled all the others minus the Picard show, I would probably be fine lol. If it’s good of course.

But same time I do want more Star Trek and yes I want DIS to get better so I’m not going to be overly judgmental on everything based on what we know so far. And I think DIS second season is the key. Meaning if it is really better and does feel more like Star Trek of old then I think it may give more hope to the other shows and people will have an open mind. If not, well, yeah.

As placating as S2 of STD looks to be, it is also looking to be better than S1. Will it bring on more subscribers to CBSAA? Maybe. But at this point I would doubt it.

*not representative

El Chup, there were many people who felt the same way about DS9 in 1993 when it first aired (go rewatch that pilot and remember how truly different it was than what Trek had traditionally been).

Plenty of people thought it perverted the Trek brand and was just a cash grab ripoff of Babylon 5. Now many Trekkies regard it as some of the best of the franchise.

Again, first glances aren’t always a good thing. Open mind. Judge it when it comes out. But I hear you. I agree this doesn’t excite me.

El Chup, there were many people who felt the same way about DS9 in 1993 when it first aired (go rewatch that pilot and remember how truly different it was than what Trek had traditionally been).

Plenty of people thought it betrayed the Trek brand and was just a cash grab rip-off of Babylon 5. Now many Trekkies regard it as some of the best of the franchise.

Again, first glances aren’t always a good thing. Open mind. Judge it when it comes out. But I hear you. I agree this doesn’t excite me.

Well, I wasn’t one of those people in 1992 when it was announced. I don’t honestly think you can compare the idea of a show on a space station with an adult comedy cartoon and a show about a one dimensional panto villain.

The first no, the second yes.

There’s absolutely a comparison to be made with a Trek show focused on Section 31 lead by a Mirror Universe version of a main character. DS9 was fronted by a disillusioned commander and a Bajoran second in command, with a non-aligned shape-shifting head of security who acted like a villain at times (threatening to kill his adversaries) and a gangster Ferengi bartender.

The tone of that opener was grim and dreary, the color palette was visually dark, there was no starship, and the lead commander that wanted to quit Starfleet and openly hated Captain Picard.

It’s easy to look back now and think it all fits in the context of the broader canvas of the franchise but it absolutely was as different to TNG and TOS as DSC and this proposed Georgiou series is to the rest of the franchise.

I never claimed it wasn’t different to TNG. I claimed it wasn’t comparable to a panto villain show. DS9 was still quintessentially Trek. It was still a crew of heroes learning how to solve problems together. Sisko wasn’t an intergalactic dictator.

And you know what the cast of this show is going to be, how…?

The “disillusioned commander” plotline was essentially resolved in the pilot episode, though. Too often, the gangster Ferengi bartender devolved into idiotic “wacky Ferengi comedy” episodes, although occasionally we saw glimpses of him. I agree Odo and Kira were done well.

Exactly. Gul Dukat was a three-dimensional villain. Dukat is not the precedent for this Yeoh series. Instead, it’s Mirror Kira (aka “the Intendent”), who was equally well a hypersexualized moustache-twirler who is closest to Mirror Georgiou. That worked well the first time DS9 tried it; it worked less well in subsequent episodes, and it would be trite as the basis for an entire series.

MU Episodes CAN be fun as a one off only. Revisit it for more than the one episode, and it grows very tired very fast. Setting an entire show around an MU character in the PU… A very difficult task at best. I like the initiative but it feels like Kurtzman has gone a bridge too far with this one.

At first glance I might agree, but I can’t say until I actually see them. A Section 31 could could be excellent, and who knows maybe the cartoon will surprise me and be Futurama levels of quality, in which case, awesome.

One of my personal credos is to keep an open mind, and give everything its fair shot.

Sometimes, I feel like at least half the people who comment here hate the franchise.

+1. Very close to throwing in the towel. Jeez, just get Discovery right before you spin off another broken show.

That said, this doesn’t seem to relate to any official announcement, so probably time to take a chill pill.

My problem with this is not even the retconning – its all fiction after all – but the continuing destruction of everything Star Trek once stood for in the name of being “modern” and “edgy”. How TPTB can say with a straight face that they work for more hope and optimism when in reality they do the opposite is beyond me. Oh the cognitive dissonance!

Can’t disagree with you too much there VS! That’s why when I heard the Picard show was coming it redeemed my faith in the franchise that it wouldn’t just be all dark and reshaping everything. And maybe just have stories about exploration again. And in a post Voyager setting!

I don’t mind the idea of a Section 31 show but yes I can understand how it would bother others since a lot of people don’t like the idea of them. But then they keep showing up lol. That’s what’s funny. And this is Kurtzman, Section 31 was in STID, so its not a shock he want to use them again. I wasn’t surprised they would show up on DIS but an entire show is a different thing on its own.

It’s not funny, it’s lazy IMO. Section 31 was invented for one reason only on DS9, and that was to tell a story about how far you go when things are morally ambiguous during a time of war. But every Section 31 story since then hasn’t built on that at all and I don’t see what you can really add to their original purpose.

I don’t think its lazy though, I really liked most of the Section 31 stories and why I’m excited to see what they do here. They were the true villains in STID and I think would’ve made that film better if they kept them the main villains and not turn it into the Khan show.

I agree with you aboit STID. If they had emphasized the theme of hawks within Starfleet being the real villain more, the movie would have been morr impactful (and a better allegory).

For some the mere mention of Sec 31 in STID was yet another reason to groan at that movie.

I’m with you, Vulcan soul. This stuff both breaks my heart and pisses me off. I guess those are the feelings one has when something precious is being destroyed.

I’m with you. It’s a lazy plot device to enable writers to not to have to write in line with the values of the Federation.

You need to fight to maintain Paradise when you have the likes of the Romulans, Dominion and the Borg. Even in a future of Paradise, you will still have people who aren’t ethical. Even TNG demonstrated this

“As a matter of cosmic history, it has always been easier to destroy than to create.”

How in the world did you ever think they would be able to do over 50 years of Star Trek, introducing new shows and new movies without ever exploring something that wasn’t mentioned in the original show. I grew up watching and loving reruns and movies of the original Star Trek in the 80’s, but I mean “cmon”, the original series had no idea how big it would become. It would be a very limited and boring Star Trek universe if it was limited to things only mentioned on that show. Not to mention how many times did it contradict itself. There were times the enterprise couldn’t get passed warp 6 and other times it passed Warp 10 without blowing up (albeit from an outside influence).

Um, just because something that didn’t appear or was mentioned on TOS, that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. TOS was about ONE ship of many; it was we, the audience, that made the characters on the show significant.

Curious Cadet, I’m with you 100% on this. I loathe everything about Section 31, and as long as it’s part of Trek, I’m not watching. Like you said, I love Yeoh, but this? Not even a blip of interest.

I love Section 31, but i’d rather they bring back Sloane and do a show with him, or something set at the dawn of the Federation showing how this Utopia spawned this morally dubious division of covert operatives.

But… I am just not a fan of Yeoh.

I agree, it’s not just that Section 31 works based on a worldview I disagree with, that part in itself is actually interesting. But the writers seem to agree with the idea that there must be someone playing the dirty to make a society like the Federation possible. Making a show about (the cool adventures of?) a member of S31 also sounds like supporting this view. I would really rather see a 24th century story where Starfleet finally confronts S31 and shuts it down for good.
One more problem I have with this character is her Mirror Universe origin. The MU is a fun scifi-ish concept to explore from time to time, but it’s just so implausible (where’s the butterfly effect?) and I think it was a mistake to make it part of the main storyline.

One minor quibble, Jacek: i’d like to see them confront S31, only to be begrudgingly persuaded that it is necessary.

I agree, period.

I hate Section 31, too. I like Starfleet and the Federation to be shiny good guys who work in an aboveboard fashion. I want that OPTIMISTIC future, darn it!

Ugh. You’re one of those where if it’s never mentioned in TOS it can’t be in any show.

Agree 100%. If I want to see dirty deeds done dirt cheap, there are a million better places on TV to see them done than Trek.

I’m a fan of Discovery, I really like Michelle Yeoh and I like most of what I have seen of the future Star Trek projects like the Picard series and the proposed Starfleet Academy plans BUT this doesn’t sound like a good idea to me. Maybe a mini series might work but I certainly don’t see much reason to do a Section 31 series. It is too bad they killed off Prime Captain Georgiou because IMO that was a character they could have built a series around. If this happens, I hope they prove me wrong.

I think end of the day that’s what this is all about. They want to keep Michelle Yeoh. She’s a big star in her own right and ironically was actually the first cast member announced for DIS before anyone else. I remember how excited I was to hear she was coming on. But it was made clear that she wasn’t going to last long on the show and probably killing her off was a big mistake. So this is a way to keep her I guess.

But they could just keep her on as a recurring role as a S31 agent on DIS. The fact they are making an entire spin off with her is shocking to say the least.

Yeah, that sounds about right. She is a big star and seems to love being involved with Star Trek. Fans also seem to like her so this is a way to keep her around. Maybe I’m wrong and they can make this work. Like I said before, I hope they prove me wrong. It would be pretty cool for her to be involved with Star Trek for the long haul and showing up at STLV 2030.

Don’t get me wrong, this could be a total disaster lol. But I do believe in waiting to hear more before I decide on something. I wasn’t sold on DIS when I heard what it would be about and I’m still on the fence with some of it but I’m coming around more and more with all the changes at least.

And I don’t blame people for not wanting a Section 31 show. I think all the arguments are valid. But no one seems excited about a Starfleet or Khan show (ugh) either and yet they are there as well and yet? And its funny how they read the fanbase so well in terms of a post Voyager show with Picard. That was no-brainer for so many reasons and the excitement over it does feel authentic. But this and the Lower Decks show it does feel a bit more iffy.

But this is probably more about keeping Yeoh around and AA needs all the help it can get. I’ll be watching either way lol.

While I hate the Section 31 idea and think it is a good example for everyting that is wrong about Discovery, I love the Lower Decks concept and it represents something I really like about Discovery: to try something new even if it is risky.

I’m willing to see what they do with the Lower Decks idea. Part of me wants to like it because it is different but I don’t know how I feel if it turns into an animated Orville (and I like Orville). And I admit I was never big on a cartoon show but I was willing to see what they would do with it. I really thought we were getting another TAS, just updated. The fact they are going so differently shows they are trying to make these shows as diverse as possible which in concept is good, but there is a thing of going too far with it.

I’d rather see a Khan show than a section 31 show.

Tiger, maybe it’s going to be a short series, with Yeoh making occasional guest appearances on Discovery later.

Yeah maybe Marja. We thought that was possible with the Picard show until they confirmed it would be a full on series. But they keep suggesting some shows will be more limited so this is possible too.

I was actually thinking about you but if this is true, MAYBE this show could find a place for prime Lorca to show up on. It’s possible, right?

I was thinking similarly, Tiger. This feels more like a way to keep Yeoh around than anything else. Of course, there is no reason she just couldn’t play another character completely on some new show. Except for the few folks who can’t get past an actor playing a different part in the same universe.

Michelle Yeoh can most definately act. I’m willing to give this a spin. I’m interested to see what kind of tone and character a Section 31 show takes on. It sounds a bit like a take on Amazon’s “Jack Ryan” but in Space, which sounds very dull. Hopefully they can come up with some sort of hook to make it Trek _and_ compelling modern television.

Yeah. If Jack Ryan were really an over-sexualized Russian sleeper agent who was also a cannibal, kinda like Hannibal Lector or something. Then it would be exactly like Jack Ryan.

I was implying more of the “serialized gritty espionage thriller” angle of Jack Ryan…
But ok, sure.

I worry this could just be another CBS procedural. NCIS: Section 31.

I’d kinda like to see the Jack Ryan show. But still not worth buying Amazon prime for.

Groan! Just yesterday I commented how Charbon’s comments regarding the need for more utopia and optimism are ironical in light of Discovery’s darkness and appetite for dystopia, be it the mirror universe or all out war, but it really doesn’t get more cynical than a Section 31 series helmed by the perversion of Yeoh’s very likeable and very Trekkian character from the pilot. I’d much rather watch a prequel to that, Star Trek: Shenzhou! But if this series comes through, Roddenberry must be spinning in orbit!

Agreed. I feel let down by Kurtzman.

Double agreed. Section 31 is not only a retcon of the history of the Star Trek universe, which never concerned me that much, but a retcon of Star Trek’s concept and values and a betrayal of it’s idealistic vision and philosophy. If the Federation is a paradise, Section 31 is unthinkable. Like Adorno said: Es gibt kein richtiges Leben im falschen.

I’m all for a Section 31 series, but Yeoh’s involvement is disappointing. I thought she was, by far, the weak link in Discovery’s cast.


I disagree – Admiral Cornwell is without doubt one of the worst characters and the weakest recurring actor in Star Trek history and I’m including the likes of Icheb.

Whilst it wasn’t her finest work, in Michelle Yeoh’s defence, she was given some truly awful and local amateur drama class standard writing to muddle through. The directors (apart from Frakes of course) were shambolic too.

Can’t Q or the Krenim just remove STD, Fuller and Kurtzman from existence?

“Can’t Q or the Krenim just remove STD, Fuller and Kurtzman from existence?”

LOL! Not a fan of Q but where is he when we need him?

I think she was the weak link. Not because of her acting skills. But because the part just wasn’t a good fit for her. Even black hat Georgeau is not a good fit for her.

Please God no. The prime Georgiou was an interesting, optimistic and inspiring character. The mirror version was a farcical moustache twirling villain who led to the worst of the first season writing. I cannot think of a worse idea, other than perhaps a Harry Miss series.


While I love Yeoh and Capt Georgiou, I don’t like Emperor Georgiou. While the idea of Section 31 is “kewl” – what the proponents of a Section 31 show forget is they are the villains! I forget what happened with them in Enterprise cause that was not a good idea, but in DS9 the whole point of their appearances is they are the bad guys. Yeah they are pragmatists, but they are terrible and against everything the federation stands for. Sure, some elements of Discovery haven’t been perfect, but spinning off a Section 31 show is about as wrong for Trek as you can get.

I guess they could redeem it by having Georgiou come around to undermine Section 31, but that is so unlikely to happen.

This is the first big element of revived Trek that I don’t feel I can even get partly behind. We’ll see when it is more than a rumor.

Yup. They represent the idea of dropping one’s own moral standards for the sake of achieving a perceived good. That’s not what Roddenberry Trek is about.

Perhaps the evil that Section 31 does will be shown in contrast to Starfleet/Federation values. Just maybe it will be a show that reinforces Federation values by showing the evil that some people in power do to further their agenda.

I think you are on to something there, Marja. The contrast could still underscore Gene Roddenberry’s values.

Exactly! It may not just be all dubious plans and questionable tactics. It may be more greyer than how people perceive the organization. True it has certainly gotten some pretty bad optics through the years lol, especially in STID when they tried to blow up a starfleet ship. But a series may show other sides to them.

That said though when your lead is a former Empress who literally ate her own slaves I can see where people get the idea they aren’t exactly the most noble group of people. ;)

I think next season is really going to tell us though how S31 will operate on the show. If there is at least some hint of moral virtue in their dealings or people inside the group who wants to see the group operate more fairly then that could be interesting.

This is Discovery though, the same group who applauded themselves by not blowing up a planet even though the very idea is pretty anti-Starfleet.

I still think its funny you go from being a Starship Captain to a sadistic Emperor from a parallel universe now acting as a secret agent in another universe. How bizarre is that arc? But this is still Discovery lol.

I’m still betting we will learn Tilly is a secret Romulan agent. It’s coming!

She never went from being a captain to an emperor. The latter was meant to be the exact opposite of everything Georgiou was…and that’s what makes Georgiou Prime a much more interesting candidate for a spin off. She represents the core Star Trek values. The Empress does not. She’s just a one dimensional bad guy.

I’m hoping Deadline isn’t reporting accurately and this is in fact a Prime serious set before Discovery. That I could get behind as I was interested to see more of Georgiou Prime.

I mean the actress obviously! I’m pretty certain when she first signed up for DIS she had no idea what would be in store later lol. Especially given how noble and considerate Georgiou came off and then to play technically the same person but the complete opposite of it.

And I’m guessing they probably can’t do a Captain Georgiou show because we already know Michael was her FO for seven years and I don’t think they can deage Yeoh that much to make it believable. And then I think yet ANOTHER prequel but this one set 10 years before DIS would just get more people angry lol.

I don’t really disagree with you though, I think its just a way to keep Yeoh around and to help carry on stories DIS is already doing. And my guess is they probably are thinking crossover potential too. They could bring people in like Mudd for a mission or even bring back Prime Lorca.

Captain Georgiou was quite a lovable character. That says a lot for Michelle Yeoh, that she could bring so much to a character in two episodes. It’s really too bad the Klingons ate Captain Georgiou, because it might have been a real twisty weird turn of events to have her actually come back, impersonating the Mirror Georgiou, but … I’m really punchy right now, LOL

Well, the Klingons seem pretty advanced in their genetic engineering in Discovery. Maybe they pooped out Prime Phillipa and reanimated her! Zombie Georgiou!

Bingo. Nearly all the mirror universe is filled with moustache-twirlers. Once per series it may be fun. It got old quickly on DS9. It wasn’t much better on DISCO. ENT handled it best, actually. A whole series? Eeek.

It’s not set in the Mirror Universe, so there will still be at least a few good guys running around somewhere.

The opposite of “moustache-twirler” isn’t “good guy.” It’s believable antagonists.

True but by definition nearly every human in the MU is mustache twirler. It is supposed to be opposite land, remember.

So if this is true, that means CBS will have announced three Trek shows in just the last three months alone. Picard show was in August and already has a starting date in April. Lower Decks has been given a two season minimum without so much as a pilot written and now this show, if true, will probably be fast tracked as well.

Meanwhile we are all still waiting if Paramount is ever going to greenlight another Kelvin movie, one they technically green lit over two years ago lol. Get it together Paramount!

I don’t think they have green-lit production of a Star Trek 4 actually. They just stated the intention to move forward with ideas (Pre-Production) on a 4th film; and this was before Beyond was actually released.

Beyond didn’t do well, and so in the best Hollywood tradition, re-evaluation has taken place and the studio has decided to slow down the process. They will want to have a successful movie at the box-office, which is understandable I guess, so they tread carefully. And is anyone really all that desperate for this 4th movie anyway?

Which is why I said ‘technically’. They had planned to basically green light it once Beyond became a hit but yeah we know what happened there lol.

I think I had this conversation with you in another thread, but I think they do still want to make one but yes at a smaller budget. That seems to be the real issue and why they can’t make a deal with the two Chris’. But my guess is that seem to be the only real hang up although probably the longer it takes the less chance its going to happen because sooner or later the other actors will find other work for whenever they planned to shoot. Even Urban don’t know if a movie will happen or not anymore and he seems the most gung ho about making one.

And you’re right no one seems all that bothered they even make another one anymore, which is why the longer they wait, the less people will even care. I just like to see one more made personally.

I won’t lie. I am intrigued.

I’m a huge Michelle Yeoh fan but, man, CBS is really trying to kill Star Trek. You can have too much of a good thing.

Or worse still, too much of a bad thing!

Didn’t stop VOY and ENT from continuing for a few years. at least DSC is watchable compared to later VOY and ENT.

I like both those shows a lot more than DIS first season. To this day I think VOY actually had one of the best first seasons in the franchise. ENT however was one of the worst.

Both shows were watchable. And both were far better than anything STD has presented us. So the “too much of a bad thing” comment, from my point of view, has merit.

I’m a wee bit worried that we could quickly reach an oversaturation point with Star Trek…ironically…but I love Michelle Yeoh so I’m all in for seeing her in anything Star Trek again! I know we’ve only seen one season and two episodes of Short Treks to evaluate the showrunners’ work, but I’ve really enjoyed DSC thus far. So I will trust their judgment and have faith whatever narratively they come up with for her will be worthwhile and exciting.

People have to remember though AA is a site that is losing out to major market share to sites like Amazon and Netflix. And now Disney is coming with their site and they are coming BIG! In the last month they have announced three new Marvel shows (with characters from the movies) and just added a new Star Wars show that is set prior to Rogue One/A New Hope starring Diego Luna reprising his role as Cassian. That will now have three Star Wars shows as well. And they brought an entire studio, 20th Century Fox, just to have even more content on it. There is also four movies in production solely for that site. Disney is serious about getting your $10 lol.

That’s what this is really about. No one cares about AA at all outside of Discovery and fans barely care about that given the tiny subscribers its pulling. But CBS have to take the one thing they do have to get more people excited about it.

The real problem is AA just sat there or years without any real attention to it. Now that they decided they want that site to be viable with the others they are already way behind the game and let’s face it announcing new Trek shows makes headlines.

AA will be bought out within five years and the content will end up on one of the major services. No way is Trek a brand strong enough to compete with Marvel and Star Wars, especially with shows that are Trek in name only, such as comedy cartoons and panto villain shows.

Actually I don’t disagree with you. If this entire, sorry, enterprise fails I can see AA folding up and some the shows going to the other sites; the more successful ones at least. But the one advantage AA has is its being run by the biggest American network so they have time (and money) to turn it around. And I have said in the past it can’t JUST be Star Trek to do that, but this is probably a short term option and to keep their head above water until they come up with a real plan.

But I wouldn’t be shocked if the site is shut down or just relied on advertisers with smaller content if these shows don’t bring more viewers in the next few years. Its just a lot of competition and better competition out there. AA just has no buzz at the moment.

Biggest American network doesn’t mean anything these days. We live in a global world and Disney, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google and so on are all major global corporations. CBS doesn’t have the brand power that other services have and doesn’t have any impact outside of the United States. I don’t see how it is going to complete, especially if it ruins it’s leading brand with nonsense like comedy cartoons and dumbed down villain shows.

All Action is actually intended as an American exercise anyway.
For example Discovery is on Netflix in Europe. I don’t think All Access is really intended to be rolled out outside the US?

No, it isn’t. And that’s the point. It can never compete.

All Access is starting up in Canada and Australia

But AA is focused mostly on the American market so the biggest issue is if it can succeed there first. But yes you’re right that’s the other problem, most of these other sites are global now. I was in Philippines a few months ago and was shocked that they had Amazon Prime even there now. THat seems to be in as many countries as Netflix is these days. You better believe Disney’s site will be in 140 countries at launch lol.

But AA actually do plan to broaden out. I heard it will be in Australia soon. But yeah it could be a sense of too little too late. It certainly feel that way in America.

None at all, compared to Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime. And here comes Disney Plus next year to really put pressure on actual popular streaming channels. The whole game is about to change. Should be interesting. Most people only have so much money to put towards tv channels.

Pretty sure eventually there will be a 3rd party to provide the streaming services bundled at a lower cost. Comcast and the others will be that provider. It will turn into cable for internet streamers. You watch. I’m convinced that is what will happen. 20 streamers for $80 a month or something…

I agree as well. In time there will be some kind of bundle service. And it would make sense for these companies to get behind it because it will probably be harder to just cancel anytime you want. So that would be a good trade off. People would probably pay a bit less but guaranteed to keep them longer. Maybe not like cable but 6 months or something.

So true.

I see where you are going, Frank and there is some truth in what you say. But this is different from the ’90s and early 00’s. The streaming concept makes the over saturation point higher. We are getting entire streaming services aimed at certain things now. DC’s streaming service is nothing but DC stuff. Is that over saturation too? I see where you are going and there is some truth in what you say.

Sorry but English is not my first language.

For me, it would be extra-splendid to see return of V’ger at some point in a Star Trek series! As many of you old sweats will know, at end of ST:TMP we witnessed the bizarre, strange and highly unnatural fusion of man and machine when Decker become one with Illia and V’Ger.

Imagine what knowledge V’Ger would have as a result of this strange fusion; Imagine what adventures could be had!

The Motion Picture is very underrated. While the characters are portrayed rather coldly, in all other respects it is great Trek. It is intelligent, epic and wondrous. I’m not sure about a show entirely about V’Ger, but I do think a series set in that movie era that could touch on V’Ger and other issues around that time would be a damn sight better than Empress Panto Villain rubbish.

It’s also the first thing that I watched that made me a Trek fan so it has a special place in my heart. Before watching TMP I was a huge Stargate and Star Wars fan, but TMP sold me on the epicness and the intelligent science fiction that Star Trek tries to pursue.

Aye. I actually first saw it when I was about 6 years old, which was about 1983/1984. I called it the Poo Picture (because “motion” is a medical term for taking a dump) and it bored me to tears. But as I got older and more educated I enjoyed it more and more. Now I think it is one of the best Trek movies.

Look for that in season 3 of Discovery. Of course after they run into it, it will be classified. ;)

Star Trek: The Motion Picture may not hit that classic “sweet spot” for me the way “The Wrath of Khan” did at the movies, but it runs a close second. Jerry Goldsmith’s soundtrack remains my favorite film score, and the 1701 refit is my favorite version of the original ship. I know many find the long ship shots dull, but Goldsmith’s track “Leaving Drydock” matched with Trumbull’s visuals always thrills me to this day!

The scenes of Kirk’s Enterprise flyover and the ship leaving drydock, with that fantastic Goldsmith score are fantastic. And it it feels like it was there just to provide a fangasm. The scenes thrill me as well to this day. The TMP redesign is STILL my favorite version of the Enterprise. That said, the V’Ger flyovers could have been trimmed a great deal, IMHO.

Hopefully, a Worf show will be produced after all…

At this rate, I wouldn’t be shocked they gave everyone from TNG their own show…except Wesley. ;)

I want a Dr. Pulaski show!


Hopefully a good Star Trek show will be produced.

If this is Tuesday, this must be Belgium. And if this is Friday, it must be Section 31.

Lookit, all these dime-a-dozen announcements of new Star Trek series are getting irksome. It’s as if no one at CBS has read the tale of the goose that lay the golden eggs. People are going to tire of this quickly. Even the hardest-core fans will be unable to keep up with them all. And these silly projects are going to eclipse the one worthy project, the Picard sequel.

Michelle Yeoh is an amazing actress but — like Captain Kirk under the bridge — they killed her character off. If they had wanted to do something truly intriguing, perhaps a Gary Seven series with Captain, not Empress, Georgiou might have worked.

Section 31 is the antithesis of what Trek needs now, which is to be an optimistic series in turbulent political times. In small doses here and there, especially on ENT, perhaps it works. It does not work as a series. The same is true of the mirror universe. (So gee, let’s combine them both and hope alchemy results.)

I honestly thought we wouldn’t hear about another Trek show until Picard was at the very least in production. Or maybe not until after they saw how well it did during its first season. To announce TWO more shows (although to be fair CBS hasn’t announced it yet and still may not) in the same month when the Picard show is still in pre-production probably tells you that CBS needs viewers to AA pronto!

And the earliest we will probably see any of these shows are a year from now so they are trying to beef up that site ASAP!

And her original character was killed off but MU Georgiou is very much alive and was going to show up next season anyway. My guess whatever she will be doing next season will be a prelude to the show.

Frankly, it’s not a bad business strategy. There is not enough content on All Access right now for me to want to hop over that pay wall monthly. Give me a network with a new Star Trek episode every week, and you have yourself a subscriber! They are planning possibly four series right now. At 13 episodes a pop that’s … … … … sorry, I’m slow at math … 52 episodes!!! Well, how about that?

It’s a lousy business strategy, because it will degrade the STAR TREK franchise.

No I don’t think it is at all either. I don’t really believe in the ‘over saturation’ argument so much as I believe in the quality one. If all the shows are good, they will all get viewers no problem. Most people like me easily watched Star Trek every week for 15+ years. Yes EVENTUALLY I got a bit tired but it was literally 18 straight years lol. MAYBE AA will have that kind of streak but its way too early to say if these shows are going to be as successful as the Berman shows, but the potential is there.

Even Enterprise went 4 seasons and that was clearly the least popular. But if it was just a better received show from the start it would’ve went 7 seasons easily.

So I don’t blame CBS and what’s funny about this is I was reminding people before DIS even came on this is the network that makes tons of spin offs more than any other network (although NBC is getting there with all their ‘Chicago’ spin-offs), so it was inevitable IMO we would see multiple Trek shows. They had four CSI shows at one point, so this isn’t surprising in the least. The speed is faster but that’s because AA is just not doing what the expected in terms of viewers and their other shows are probably failing.


This is CBS — the thinking usually goes: if one’s good (JAG) then 74 (NCIS, NCIS LOs Angeles, NCIS New Orleans) must be better.

I can hear the Trek Fans whining and bitching now ”B but Section 31 does not follow Roddenberry’s rules of Peace section 31 is against Roddenberry’s Rules” I say great we need a Section 31 Show for that reason lets see some bad ass agents Kicking ass and taking names rather then peaceful contact.

“lets see some bad ass agents Kicking ass and taking names rather then peaceful contact”

Yeah. Very Star Trek.

In fact, while we’re at it, how about a Trek show about Trump? *facepalm*

Oh, and Roddenberry was not so much about peace as he was about different people coming together to solve problems for the good of humanity and beyond.

Seriously, I don’t get why people like you are even fans of Trek when you’re at odds with the whole point of it. You want to see pew pew pew in space, there are plenty of other franchises for you.

Different strokes for different folks. A person is still entitled to being a Star Trek fan even if the individual likes his Star Trek with a spoonful of tang. The poster’s nomicker is “DS9 is King” so why should you be surprised that such a fan might get excited about a Section 31 series?

Ds9 was never about “kicking ass and taking names”.

Really?! You could have fooled me, it was a war show for three seasons.

+1 to El Chup.

DS9, as usual, shows an utter lack of understanding of anything about Star Trek. Most pathetic troll around this place.

Too bad Section 31 wasn’t smothered in its crib two decades ago. Zero interest in a new series based on that.


‘…smothered in its crib…’. Ha! Well put.

Please god I hope this isn’t true. One of the biggest mistakes the relaunch of the franchise has made is a focus on being overly dark. A Section 31 show with this character would take that ethic to the max. Horrible news!

Prediction: it’ll be an NCIS-style procedural.

Oh for f…

No, no, no! Stop killing Star Trek, CBS. Post Nemesis show focused on exploration, meeting new cultures, new civilisations with a great set of characters.

Section 31, like the Borg, should be used sparingly. Instead, these amateur writers are just mindlessly and desperately grabbing onto things that they think are cool: oooh clandestine organisations, they’re great and not antithetical to Gene’s vision. Even if some critics claim that, we’ll just get the cast to harp on about “the legacy of Star Trek”.



So you want TNG… again. We already did ‘trying to be TNG’ with VOY and ENT and they killed the franchise.

I wish people stop saying this. They didn’t ‘kill’ the franchise. VOY went on for 7 seasons, it was just as successful as TNG and DS9 because Star Trek was still popular enough to launch another show when it was done. Yes ENT definitely fell in ratings and not as successful but people say ‘kill’ as if Star Trek was now completely done and over for. If THAT was the case they wouldn’t have announced a movie a year later with $150 million budget. Star Trek was never ‘dead’, people just didn’t like Enterprise and it was cancelled. I just get sick of hearing the franchise was laid to rest for good when more Star Trek showed up a few years later. If Star Trek was really ‘dead’ you don’t make $150 movie about it two years later and that becomes a hit.

Yes movies can bomb, shows can get cancelled, the ‘franchise’ however still lives on. Even if DIS is cancelled next season clearly more Star Trek is coming. The franchise was only ‘dead’ once and that’s when TOS was cancelled. But from TAS on its been alive and well. Maybe not always as healthy as it should but not dead. ;)

Yes. That. If Sec 31 is to be used, it needs to be sparingly. I’m not a fan but the entire concept works better when it rarely shows up.

I love DSC, I love Trek, I love them doing spinoffs… Short Treks, Picard, both excellent.

But first an animated comedy, and now a Michelle Yeoh series? Sorry, you’ve lost me. I’m not too down on them because i can just not watch them but… meh.

Agreed. My vote will be abstention.

I am always willing to give new Trek a chance. But these two don’t sound appealing at first glance, this one mostly because I am not a fan of the lead. If the rest of the cast is excellent, and the show is strong, i’m fine with it.

Plenty of actors in Trek i’ve hated, most notably Terry Farrell.

Seriously. I read the headline and then thought: what will everyone online say? You are my brain! LOL. I should have been an entertainment lawyer.

Personally, it seems brilliant to me to play off of Michelle Yeoh’s popularity to draw interest to a Section 31 show. I would have been FAR less interested in this without her involvement. I personally kind of fancy the idea of watching her roaming the galaxy clad in black leather kicking the ass of Federation foes and showing off her martial arts skills now and again. And she is extremely intelligent and a fantastic actor. She deserves her own show!

Generally, I also like the approach they are taking in terms of diversifying the Star Trek brand and enabling a broader palette of stories to be told. Discovery for action and adventure. The Picard show for adult character drama. Lower Decks for comedy. Section 31 for spy thriller mysteries (maybe even horror). Starfleet Academy for young adult or teen drama.

Are the Classic Star Trek fans going to love each and every one of these series? Clearly not.

However, Star Trek has always dabbled in different genres. The episodic format made diversified stories more tenable. Within the serialised format, it makes sense to tap into those different genres via differently themed series. It taps into varying fan interests and attracts fans of different ages and genres too.

I would not say I am thrilled about a Section 31 series, but that’s not because it is “abhorrent to Star Trek and the principles of The Great Bird of the Galaxy.” I just don’t love spy thrillers. We should allow Star Trek to grow and evolve beyond Gene Roddenberry’s narrow (all-be-it gratifying and optimistic) vision of the future. I accept that Star Trek is a bigger tent now, and I welcome CBS’s attempt at truly diversifying it.

If we had a bunch of shows mimicking the TNG format, Star Trek would quickly become stale and boring much like it did with Voyager and Enterprise. (I am not disparaging VOY and ENT fans per se, those shows were simply not my favorite.) Personally, I feel like I am entering Star Trek heaven. Not because I love Section 31 but rather because the storytelling possibilities within the Star Trek universe are endless. The current creators of Star Trek are embracing that.

“However, Star Trek has always dabbled in different genres.”

…and frankly, when it’s done that, the results have usually been a waste of my time at best, cringeworthy at worst. (Viz., “Our Man Bashir” on Bond, “A Fistful of Datas” and every other Western-themed episode, “Catspaw” on horror, nearly every Ferengi-themed comedy, etc.)

Name one Top-10 episode that dabbles in a different genre. Hell, name one episode that falls in the top ten *percent* that dabbles in a different genre.

River, the examples you give weren’t experiments with other genres– they were open parodies.

The times when they’ve dabbled in other genre’s they’ve had great success. DS9’s “Field of Fire” was an excellent murder mystery, “Rules of Engagement” was a fantastic courtroom drama, “Starship Mine” did the whole “Die Hard” one-man-in-a-confined-space story very well, while the article last week gave some great examples of horror episodes, like “The Haunting of Deck 12,” and “Genesis.”

Big fan of Genesis. Long ago I bought that single episode on VHS, I liked it so much. Love Picard’s line about ‘swinging through the ship.’

Seriously? These are the episodes you’d cite as the touchstone for a successful new series?

“The Haunting of Deck 12”? An episode that features Neelix, one of the weakest Star Trek characters EVAH, and, in what is historically a marker of a classic Trek episode, a bunch of kids?

“Genesis”? (Aka “DNA is magic”?) Read Tim Lynch’s review. ‘Nuff said.

Starship Mine was OK, but I wouldn’t cite it as a top-ten episode. And Picard’s strength was never as an action hero; when the TNG movies tried to replicate that, they mostly failed.

The only real example is “Rules of Engagement.” They do seem to have had some success with courtroom dramas, also including “Court Martial” and “The Measure of a Man.” (You might add “The Menagerie” and “Death Wish” to that, and my guilty pleasure, “Devil’s Due.”) But I remain unconvinced that the courtroom episodes stand for the proposition that “Trek can be anything to anyone if it shamelessly copies genre shows.” The courtroom dramas also gave the captains a speaker’s corner for speechifying, which may explain why they worked well.

When did I cite them as touchstones for a potential new series? I cited them as successful attempts at exploring other genres of stortelling. Stop getting your pants in a twist.

Nor did I ever cite any of them as “top 10 episodes.” I mean, is that your bar for examples of good Trek? So there’s only 10 episodes that worked for you? Interesting barrier for entry, as a fan…

But very clever of you to sidestep my point and avoid addressing that your examples were parodies. Well done. You sir should be a politician.

This is rather instructive. The commenter who is seemingly a defense attorney for Discovery thinks ‘Genesis’ is a quality Trek episode. I am not casting any aspersions. Horses for courses. But I find this revealing.

The Trouble with Tribbles.

I don’t think anyone is demanding TNG clones.

I think all we, or at least I, want are shows that retain Roddenberry values and tell intelligent stories about the human conditions.

I have no interest in pew pew nonsense or silly comedy cartoons.

If your goal is to grown the franchise past trekies you need those shows too, and having pew pew or comedy doesn’t preclude intelligent stories on the human condition (which let’s be honest, it more comparing the worst of the new Trek to the best of the old, but there’s plenty of old trek that didn’t address the human condition or have any real message.)

Don’t disagree with you Locutus. I like that they are doing different genres of Trek shows. I figured not every show would light my personal fire. And this is the first one that really doesn’t. It seems to feature two things that I never felt worked for Trek. The MU and Sec 31. That said, a number of folks DO like those things. So this show would be right up their alley.

Hard pass on this. I never thought they should have brought her mirror character back to this universe in the first place. She’s unlikeable and abrasive, imo, and Section 31 seems just a ploy to run around the TOS era and mess in the background of what’s already established. Very little interest. Same with the animated show. Looking forward to the Picard show, because that’s going Forward, but otherwise not impressed with the offerings thus far. Those who are talking about brand-building, I agree with you, just throwing things at the paywall and seeing what sticks. Please stop screwing around with the TOS era. A young Kirk is going to show up any minute now, just watch. Very uninspiring, and hardly Boldly Going.

The worst bits of Discovery S1 were, in my opinion:

– The mirror universe
– Bringing back Giorgiou

And, also in my opinion, the worst narrative in Star Trek is:

– Section 31

So, guess how much I like the sound of this idea…

Couldn’t agree more, on all counts. Love Yeoh, but hate this idea.

Lookit, if they REALLY want to bring back Yeoh, borrow a page from the Chris Hemsworth controversy and bring back CAPTAIN Georgiou. We never actually saw the Klingons eat her, and Klingons have been known to tell tall tales here and there. Hell, perhaps make her captain of DISCO in Season 3.

Good calls. I say the worst thing in S1 was Lorca really being evil MU Lorca. So that falls under the MU category. Which means I agree.

And I was never a fan of Sec 31 either. I think it worked on DS9 from time to time because of the nature of that series. But them showing up on Enterprise was awkward and never worked well. Sadly their presence seems to mean that future Trek producers could use them carte blanche. Like in STID and STD.

Yeah, no thanks.

This could be good.

Me in early 2015: “I am beginning to wonder if I will live to see more Trek.”
Me in late 2018: “I… am speechless.”

I am a bit skeptical with this one.

Stories with anti-heroes/anti-villains as protagonists can be immense fun. Yes, even in the “goodie two shoes” Star Trek universe. Well done examples of that are DS9 episodes focusing on Quark.

But for this, you need a character that in spite of his/her wickedness also has some redeeming qualities. And Mirror Georgiou didn’t have much of that so far.
So, I hope that she gets some character development in this regard either in DIS season 2, or as part of the story arc in this Section 31 series…

As crazy as they are for TOS references, I wouldn’t be surprised if Gary Seven turned out to be her nemesis. Star Trek: Secret Agents!

Nah, Star Trek: Spy vs. Spy. That’s the ticket.

They’ve already done ST-Deep Cover with the human/klingon/whatever dude from dsc s1 …

Right, because it’s doubtful Star Trek would repeat itself. ;-)

Please no. Section 31 is a kind of presumptuous and subversive retcon of all the other Trek series, save DS9. It obliterates the ethical foundation of the TOS/TNG universe, in favor of DS9 (a good show) moral ambiguity. What kind of spy agency can go up against the Organians or Melkots, not to mention other telepathic races. And Discovery already established long range telepathic links — making “secrecy” ridiculous. They’re missing the point of both human and technological progress which is fundamental Star Trek. Did Q forget 31 when tormenting Picard? Did the Metrons spare Kirk and the Enterprise even though they knew about 31? Does Paramount sell much merchandise based on Starfleet being “bad guys”? Maybe somebody should ask why.

With the possible exception of Michael Chabon, nobody working on Star Trek currently seems to have any actual idea of what Star Trek is. Yeah, yeah; I’m not supposed to gatekeep. The hell with that. SOMEBODY needs to.

But they still have multiple spy agencies just the same. It’s not just Starfleet, multiple species have them, from Cardassians to Romulans. Secrecy is still a huge part of how things work even in the 24th century. And the fun of Star Trek is these agency’s probably come up with technology for other aliens not to read their minds if it came to that. They aren’t missing the point because they also use progressive technology to stay hidden.

That said I understand why you don’t want it as a show but there will always be spy agencies. Starfleet has Starfleet intelligence which probably operates more like the CIA, which is more in the open and transparent. S31 is considered more of a black ops group with little to no oversight since so few people even know they exist.

You make some good points, but most of the spy stuff (the possible exception being Enterprise Incident) also came from DS9. But again, the TOS universe seems to have been set up with the highest aliens being the most ethical — Organians, for example — and many times Kirk (and Picard) escaped certain annihilation because they refused to kill or destroy. Plus, 31 kind of insults the viewer by suggesting that the main characters were either duped or willing participants in a sham organization (StarFleet and the Federation). I see your points but I would only quote Spock (his words to Decker in Doomsday) in regards to making this: “You have the right to do so, but I would advise against it.” Ultimately, this is a TV show (or streaming show, I guess) but some ideas stray so far from core concepts they should be limited.

Yes but not everyone are like the Organians. And weren’t they just in one episode? And sure some aliens were ethical but wasn’t Apollo kind of a petulant dick who tried to kill Scotty? Didn’t the Platonians use their telekinetic powers to trap the crew and treat them literally like toys? Trelane basically did the same thing. Yes SOME were ethical and upstanding but some were still pretty awful too.

And I’m not trying to convince you that you should like Section 31 but they are ingrained in the franchise as much as the mirror universe, Borg and the tribbles are at this point. I don’t disagree their tactics are questionable but thanks to 15 years of prequels and reboots they have been very canonized to this period now. And even if the show doesn’t happen we already know they are going to be a big part of DIS second season. We don’t know what they will be doing but its either with whatever Pike and Spock is investigating or the Klingons. Maybe we will see a different and softer approach with them in this show than when we saw them the last time, ie, trying to blow up the Enterprise in order to get Khan back to kill him lol. Yeah these dudes can be ruthless, agreed.

The MU and Sec 31 have been used more than their one time and are now ingrained in canon. I just wish they were one offs. Used to fuel an episode or one story arc and then gone never to be heard from again.

I do like S31 but I don’t think they need to be around that much. But clearly they are popular because they seem to be in tons of novels. I was surprised to learn there was an entire book series just based on them.

And of course the irony for people who don’t like seeing them in TOS era because they weren’t mentioned, well this is WHY you have prequels in the first place, right? That’s the jobs of prequels, to make it all fit under the same canon, especially what came later. Unless they strictly say something just doesn’t belong, like the Borg or Romulans for example, then it gives them a reason to add whatever they want, like giving Spock a sister. Nowhere does it say he didn’t have one, so yeah. Same with Section 31. AFAIK no one ever said a Starfleet based clandestine covert groups never existed so there you go!

Nobody is objecting to the concept of intelligence agencies or classified data in the Trek universe.

What they’re objecting to is (1) lack of oversight, and (2) the idea of secret embedded operatives on starships. And no, the idea of political officers doesn’t work out in the real world. Ask the Soviet Navy. That was a plotline that “Face of the Enemy” nailed.

I don’t think they are embedded on starships much though. The only time we saw S31 actually part of a starship was in the third episode on DIS. But all the other times, they are mostly working from the outside. But yes I think we will see MU Georgiou on DIS pretending to be PU Gergious working with Starfleet while she’s also secretly working for S31 (everybody got that lol).

Although I’m curious if we will see an actual S31 ship on the new show? If its going to be a show then I imagine they will have to have bases and transportation of some kind. Maybe we will get a hint of their infrastructure next season. I think that’s the direction they will go in IMO.

But there does not need to be a Section 31. Make it more like a Federation CIA where perhaps you get some moral ambiguity regarding how far their department heads and agents are willing to go. THAT would be interesting. But this “off the books” black ops Section 31 thing… Sorry, I just don’t buy it as more than a one off plot device.

fantastic news..

so now we can have a series with main protagonist being a mass murderer aka hitler to the power of ten. am j supposed to root for such a character or what??? i though it cant go worse after mutineer burnham, but here we go.

all is cool and allowed though, as long as the character is not a cis white het male. I am sure all femminists worldwide will rejoice

Guess its slowly time to stop being a Trek fan

You can also have capital letters and tolerance, if you want.

Except Burnham was a great character to watch come to terms with her emotions and her choices. I would love to explore toe dark side of the federation, but I understand that it’s not going to be for everyone. Not every Star Trek has to be for every Trekie.

Or rather she would have been had we been able to actually see such characterizations. Her big dilemma was solved off screen no more than 5 episodes into the season, too.

Oh please no. Section 31 is turning into Star Trek’s equivalent of Poochie the Dog. Show me one instance when Section 31 worked besides DS9.

It didn’t work on DS9.

It worked brilliantly on DS9, and consistently, because the DS9 universe was diverse enough and had sufficient depth that s31’s presence was not just credible, but, after the fact, seemingly inevitable. Would be the same for TOS. Other trek series, though set in the DS9 timeframe, didn’t really show all the textures that DS9 did, so it might seem awkward to drop that in, too easy to claim ‘clashing with GR vision’ or some other ill-considered dogma.

I didn’t even know s31 had turned up on ENT, but I would guess there and in any new show, it would be the creators’ excuse and/or license to get out of the GR’s TREK box without penalty — so it could become a cheap writer’s trick to not deal with stories honestly, which would be my fear (and probably my expectation, since these folks are not anywhere near DS9 level in their abilities.)

On ENT they actually explained where the name Section 31 comes from which is literally from the section in the Starfleet charter that gave them their mandate.

They just love playing God to the rest of the alpha quadrant, don’t they?

It worked ONCE on DS9.

Disagree – the second time was among the best Treks ever (it should be, given that Ron Moore pretty much seems to have taken all the storyline beats and reverses direct from LeCarre’s classic THE SPY WHO CAME IN FROM THE COLD.)

In fairness, I don’t think it went badly in the final episode of ENTERPRISE. But it was a pretty subdued portrayal.

Cannon cannon cannon…… I am sick of hearing that word. I am 54 and a huge Trek fan since childhood. It’s 2018. The Cage was made in 1964. Time changes things and stories expand otherwise it might just be pretty damn boring stuck in the same old thing. I cringe every time these folks that make new shows feel like they have to apologize by using the word canon. Ugh. Just saying.

One of the worst ideas ever.

Hooray, the mass murdering psychopath Emperor of the Mirror Universe gets to be a hero! Mirror Lorca though, lets kick him into a sun for trying to dethrone her because he said the Trump phrase.

I adore Michelle Yeoh and will watch her in just about anything. This sounds like lots of fun. Make it so!

Since TOS hit syndication I’ve not failed to watch any Trek series. This may end up being an exception, I’ve no more interest in Section 31 then I do the temporal police, or a Han Solo origin story.

Please God, let this die as a rumor. I don’t ask for much God, and I promise to be good. Really, really good….

really a Star Wars Section 31?
Deep Six it.

Star Trek needs to relax! How about we just see what even one more season of the current show looks like. Jeeeeeeeeeezus

Seeing as how great the first season was, I think they are on the right track to be even better. And every one of these series sounds like it’s different enough to be really good.

What? A section 31 series would be great, but Georgiou?
She is the reason why the Michael charakter got cheesy and unbelievable.
Michel stoon by Georgiou’s side – by the side of a cold blooded mass murderer as Lorca was executed. In the last episode of season 1 Micheal gave Starfleet a cheesy speech about moral.
Sorry, get rid of the Georgiou charakter to let fans forget about that terrible writing.

I look forward to Season 2 of Discovery, and even more the eve of 25th Century show with Picard. I’m “meh” about Lower Decks, and would prefer another spin-off not be from Discovery. I really want a 22nd Century one about the MACOs, and continuity with Enterprise.

Wow I would actually be all for a 22nd century MACOs show! :)

That would be fun and different. And they come off waaaaay nicer than S31 lol.

Who the hell wanted/asked for this?!

Asked for it? Not me. Want it? Hell yes, we have to explore that dark side more, it’s what made DS9 good, seeing the juxtaposition and the struggle.

I agree. I don’t mind seeing this side of Trek but just as long as its a balance. S31 can’t obviously be evil and do nasty things to Starfleet officers every week. That show won’t last. But if they are presented more as a necessary evil who are taking down really nasty people then I think most will accept it. S31 did come out of DS9 and the Dominion war and it was no question the Dominion were nasty people so it made it easy to accept them even if you still didn’t like them.

I understand why people DON’T like them obviously and yes I think having MU Georgiou leading the show is what is putting people off more because she was a genocidal dictator. When you are recruiting people like her and Khan it kind goes to their argument this group will do anything and everything despite Federation values and thats where the disconnect comes in. On the other hand, they are a lot of fun to watch lol and why I’m staying positive about it for now.

If I wanted a look at the seedier side of the Trek universe, a deep dive into Ferengi or Orion culture would be the logical place to start. If I wanted it….

I like it.

Fascinating. So, Cassio Andor (Star Wars Rogue One) and Regina Andor (one of Georgious’ titles in the Mirror Universe) both get their own surprise spin-off series and neither series is about Andorians :-)

Seriously, this sounds interesting. Section 31 should become an all-adult TV-MA show but DISCO should lighten up and become more family-friendly. That sould please both factions of Trekkies…

Do you guys and gals think it was a violation to hint at Section 31 in STID?

Not at all. Casting Cumberbatch as Khan was the violation!

Hi Bob,

No I don’t think it was a violation at all. In fact I thought S31 in STID was actually a good idea to show, ESPECIALLY after Vulcan was destroyed. That’s what I been saying, S31 is a necessary evil because in reality the universe ISN’T paradise and you need groups like this to combat the crazy people in it. In fact I said for years S31 should’ve been the main focus and keep Khan out completely. It would’ve been better if Benedict Cumberbatch just stayed a rogue S31 agent but I’m sure you heard that more times than you can count at this point.


I don’t think it was a violation of canon, no. Personally, though, I wouldn’t have had the Kelvin Archive be a 31 installation.

In DS9, Sloan states that there is no building, no headquarters (essentially) of Section 31. To me, that made them more mysterious and more dangerous since they could never be pinned down – or attacked.

But, of course, the Kelvin Timeline takes place a century before Sloan and in an alternate quantum reality – which is why it can’t be a canon violation.

To me, 31 in STID comes off like it’s the Empire from Star Wars, rather than the federation’s answer to the Obsidian Order or the Tal Shiar.

FWIW I didn’t think 31 was handled well in ENT either – given their bungling of the Klingon augment virus. Were it not for Phlox and Archer, S31 could have destabilised the entire alpha quadrant. The 31 of Sloan’s day were much more slick and would never have been so sloppy.

Not a canon violation. And the KU has a ton more freedom on that front. I just personally never liked the concept of Sec. 31 and the less said about them the better. Was the Vengeance a Sec 31 ship? If so don’t think I like the idea of that organization having their own ship. Seems to undermine the clandestine nature of their existence.

But the people running S31 don’t seem to be the smartest tools in the shed. Reviving Khan? Recruiting space Hitler? Sure. Those are great ideas because using evil people to help with your schemes always works out….

No thanks. As great an actor as she is, I can’t stand the Mirror Georgiou and Section 31 makes me yawn.

Watch the Picard show soar and Section 31 fizzle.

They should do some DS9 and Voyager follow-up, perhaps connected to the events happening in the Picard show, but as separate mini-series.

We really don’t need a Discovery spin-off based on Section 31.

Aren’t spin offs usually something that comes from an existing popular and successful series and characters? Talk about the ego of these people. Discovery is still a patchy mess at this moment in time. Spinning off things from it now is therefore a laughable notion.

This is more about AA needing more subscribers. I don’t think DIS is a huge hit or anything but its probably the only thing on that site that is attracting a sizable audience, even if still a tiny one. So it just makes more sense to put more Star Trek on it because DIS proves people WILL pay if new Star Trek is on it. I know the Picard show will easily get a lot of attention. And I think as much as people don’t like the S31 idea end of the day it will probably come down to execution. If it has a lot of action, good story lines and interesting characters people will at least check it out. But none of these things are guarantees obviously, they still have to be good.


The Mirror Georgiou character is thin, one-note, and campy. And Yeoh’s performance is straight out of a Captain Proton holodeck adventure. But other than that, neat idea. It would surely be a change of pace to have a Trek series with a protagonist who is a murderous sadist who enjoys eating sentient species. Seriously, I welcome any new project that propels Star Trek away from beaten-to-death Space Navy schtick. Obviously, Space Navy is a cornerstone of the franchise. But if Star Trek is going to endure, it will have to grow beyond Space Navy. I’ve envisioned various potential series in which the majority of characters are non-Starfleet. Anything that moves beyond “shields at 47%, Captain.” If we have to put up with hokey acting from an aging martial arts cinema icon, so be it.

And a sidenote- I don’t think the Federation should be a utopia. Regardless of what Roddenberry said in his final years. Star Trek is optimistic, in that humanity is in a much better place than it is presently, but that doesn’t mean the Federation is a perfect utopia, because that is daft. Regardless of what 1986 Roddenberry pronounced.

“I don’t think the Federation should be a utopia.”

Neither do I. The foolish concepts GR dragged out in TNG (ie… Utiopia with no money and everyone strives to better themselves) always made me wretch and were the most unreal part of TNG. TNG was better when they weren’t referencing such drivel. I agree it’s still a positive message to say that humanity is in a much better place. But perfection? Puh-lease.

Some thoughts:

Section 31 recruiting “Space Hitler” is obviously a bad idea — and a tricky storytelling concept — but this could be an allegory for Operation Paperclip along with the early history of a certain agency, both of which involved the recruitment of Nazis after World War 2. So, it’s not necessarily unrealistic.

In terms of MU Georgiou specifically, I suspect the show will depict her as seriously corrupting Section 31 from the inside and a major cause of the organisation’s long-term “ethical problems”. Her handlers will probably think they can, er, handle her, but it turns out to be the other way around. There are better ways that Section 31’s later tactics could have been explained, and equally interesting ways to explain the organisation’s historical origins, but here we are.

A Trek show focusing on Section 31 or Starfleet Intelligence (or both) could be very interesting. Exciting Bourne conspiracy + Bond glamour would be great. And an organisation claiming to be “morally reprehensible, but absolutely necessary” in the interests of Federation security would potentially provide some very controversial themes to explore.

But I’m not convinced the DSC team are the best people to do it. This risks turning into something ridiculous like Agents of Shield, or wildly unrealistic like…well…name any number of silly “CIA/FBI” tv shows during the past 15+ years (with exceptions like The Americans, Berlin Station etc). Even the most recent Bourne and Bond films haven’t been immune to experiencing how tricky it can be to get this right — and it remains to be seen how good the impending “Treadstone” show will be.

DSC-related publicity describing Section 31 as “Starfleet’s black ops division” is wrong. Based on canon from ENT to DS9, “Section 31” is actually a euphemism for a “deep state” network that pre-dates the Federation and later uses Starfleet as a front/vehicle for some of its clandestine activities.

But if they’re going to focus on the black ops angle, there have been plenty of famous books in recent years focusing on real-life intelligence stuff, written by former heads of agencies and respectable investigative journalists. So the showrunners have a lot of inspiration to draw from if they do their homework. That will mean some major differences to the way Section 31 was depicted in DSC. It will also mean the showrunners/writers will need to be smart enough to extrapolate things *logically and realistically* in the context of the established Trek/Federation “universe”.

I gotta wonder about whether there should be a law limiting spy shows to folks who know what they are doing. I still don’t understand why, given DECADES of horrible post-Maibaum scripting in the Bond series, that they haven’t turned that end of the business over to some of the geniuses who wrote MI-5/SPOOKS. BERLIN STATION is another solid entry, and there have been some shortform UK things like THE GAME that were very good, but as many have indicated, these trek folks don’t seem like the type to be able to shepherd this unique kind of beast to fruition.