Report: Anson Mount Not Returning For ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Season 3

The third season of Star Trek: Discovery is set to go into production this summer, but there are some characters that have just been confirmed as not returning, according to a new report.

Mount and Romijn not part of season 3

One of the biggest changes for the second season of Star Trek: Discovery was Anson Mount joining the cast as a series regular, stepping into the role of Captain Christopher Pike, the commander of the USS Enterprise before Kirk. The season premiere of Discovery featured Pike transferring from the out-of-commission Enterprise to take command of the USS Discovery, and making it his base of operations for his mission to research the red signals and Red Angel.

With the Red Angel arc expected to wrap up at the end of the season—and given that Pike has to return to the USS Enterprise to stick with canon—it should come as no surprise that Deadline is reporting that Anson Mount’s deal for the show was only for this season and he is not expected to return for the third. As noted by Deadline, showrunner Alex Kurtzman hinted at this at the TCA event in January saying: “the fact that we will synchronize with canon by the end of this season, that means we may see shades of where we all know Pike will end up.” Mount also hinted that he was one-season-and-done with the show back in January—a month after the second season wrapped—joking about being unemployed.

Anson Mount as Captain Pike in “Brother”

Deadline is also reporting that Rebecca Romijn—who has a recurring role as Number One, first officer of the USS Enterprise—also won’t be returning for the third season of Discovery. The report makes no mention of Ethan Peck, who stepped into the role of Spock, the science officer on the USS Enterprise, and also had a recurring role on the show this season. If Pike is to rejoin Number One and head off on the Enterprise, it makes sense that Spock would join them, but it’s also plausible the show could find a reason for Peck’s Spock to stick around, for a little while at least.

Anson Mount as Pike; Rebecca Romijn as Number One in “An Obol for Charon”

Rotating captains?

Of course, Mount’s Pike was stepping into a power vacuum on the USS Discovery left after season one’s commanding officer Gabriel Lorca (played by Jason Isaacs) was revealed to be an imposter from the Mirror Universe. In the season finale, the USS Discovery was on its way to Vulcan to pick up a new captain, who was never revealed. It’s possible this commanding officer is still waiting in the wings for Pike to finish his mission and finally step in.

Jason Isaacs as Captain Gabriel Lorca in “Lethe”

One reason the show may be setting up a dynamic with new captains each season is that, unlike in previous Trek shows, the focal character is not the captain. Discovery’s lead is Commander Michael Burnham (Sonequa Martin-Green), who is the chief science officer (and third in command) of the ship. This “lower decks” perspective was one of the key differences set up by co-creators Bryan Fuller and Alex Kurtzman. While it is possible the show may eventually slot Burnham into the captain’s chair, it is just as likely they will continue to explore the character’s journey to command in the third season.

Of course, this will open up the floor to debate and speculation over who will be in command of the USS Discovery in the third season. Will it be a new character, a known character, or is it time for Saru to get to take the chair officially, instead of just as subbing periodically as acting captain?

Doug Jones as Saru in “Context Is for Kings”


Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.

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Chris

We could see Garth, We could see Decker, We could see April, Wesley, there is alot of possibilities with this rotating Capt thing.

Garth Lorca

Decker would be sort of neat. He could even bring his son Willard on board with him, posing as the next wunderkind, talking to giant mycelium space rats :-)

Tezna

I seriously hope that Pike gets a spinoff Enterprise series.

Burnham also does not deserve to be Captain, she committed mutiny afterall.

MysticalDigtial

So did Spock, but he became a Captain.

… and Kirk cheated on Kobayashi-Maru. Give yourself a break ;-)

Commander K

And Kelvin Kirk broke the rules many times, in fact I’m sure Sisko did as well one too many times..

Garth Lorca

I think that hope is not in vain. Pike’s second Five Year Mission (FYM) starring Anson Mount, Rebecca Romijn and of course Mr Peck has got too much potential to be wasted.

That show should last for seven years though, with the last two seasons being the first two years of Kirk’s five year mission, making TOS years 3-5 :-)

ML31

I really hope that will be the case. The Pike show would be something. Originally I didn’t think it would work but after seeing Mount I’m not convinced it could be done very very well.

This is the thing ML31. There was no a priori market for a Pike show.

If fans had originally heard that the new Trek series would be Enterprise 1701, the early years, the derision would have been overwhelming.

But Anson Mount and Ethan Peck have demonstrated proof-of-concept for a product no one thought was viable.

So, there is a new business opportunity…

And like the S31 show, it’s from a similar period in Trek.

But also like S31, it will likely draw a different audience.

Here’s the thing…

Does CBS continue to pursue some ideas (e.g Academy) that aren’t coming together well enough to green light?

Or do they invest in something that has already demonstrated it has a market and a quality product?

If the decision is to be based on expected return on investment and potential to build market share, it seems that Pike’s Enterprise should be a go.

ML31

It’s a bit odd. This was clearly an attempt to save the Discovery show, not an experiment to see if Pike could work. But if the save worked, obviously that would mean a Pike show could work as well. Hard to believe this was not in producers heads when the concept was dreamed up.

Corinthian7

@TG47 Totally agree. I’ve got no doubt that they’ve got lots of irons in the fire and we’ve doubtless only heard a fraction of them and some ideas will be left behind or put into long term development he’ll. You’re right there’s no way they could have launched the new era of Trek with a Pike show, there’d have been far too much resistance. However, the fact that they felt the need to link Burnham to Spock so deeply suggests there was always a long game that involved bringing in classic characters.

ML31

Corinthian7, I still firmly believe the Spock link to Burnham was not specifically to involve the classic characters but to serve as a link to them to bring in fans and then use the classic characters if they felt the show needed the boost.

Corinthian7

Oh I know we’ve had this conversation a few times I think but don’t American TV shows always need a boost? I must admit there are elements to American TV that as a foreigner looking in that I just don’t really get. Like I always used to read about TV shows having to pull out all the stops for the sweeps? I always wondered what that was all about although apparently I didn’t care enough to just google the answer but anyway I digress! The point is the TV market in America is so competitive, most shows don’t seem to last a season. So with that in mind do you not think that having a bridge they could use to bring in classic TOS characters if the show needed a boost could arguably be the same as saying that they planned from the very beginning to bring in these characters? In case I’m not being clear, I’m trying to say that they would have almost certainly expected the show to need a boost at various points.

ML31

There is some truth to that but based on things that were said… Like we would never see adult Spock on Discovery… I think they made the link first to create a link to a known character to draw a larger audience in, but mainly as a physical connection to something should they feel the show needed the extra boost. Kudos to them for trying on their own first. I think their hope was their show would be so well received they would never need to use Spock.

BTW… “Sweeps week” was a time when TV used the ratings numbers to use for what they charge advertisers. So all the networks would put on some big event at those times. Obviously it is much less a thing nowadays.

Young Picard

Boost = Subscribers (new & renewals) to CBS All Access service (U.S.)

From a business perspective, CBS banked on DIS to bring in subscribers. Shareholders needed to see value in the All Access platform, given eyeballs are being pulled into numerous others places, e.g. Netflix, Hulu, etc.

ML31

Edit too late to make the edit…

Final line should read: Originally I didn’t think it would work but after seeing Mount I’m NOW convinced it could be done very very well.

Holden

It just makes no sense to cast someone of Romijn’s stature to play the part of basically a glorified walk-on if there’s no intention of using her for anything more substantial (unless there’s a *big* subplot coming in the final episodes of the season).

The Troubled Tribble

Picard violated the Prime Directive nine times and remained captain. Surprised the hell outta me.

c d

LOL. 7th Guarantee.

thebiggfrogg

Mutiny schmutiny. Kirk was 5 minutes out of the acsdemy and became captain.

ML31

In the KU. Not the prime.

justsomesillylurker

I would love a Pike era series with Anson, Ethan, and Rebecca. I’m not really too keen on the Section 31 series, but will still give it a chance. That being said, I think it would be a mistake to not also give Pike a spin-off.

Micah

I too hope that Pike and Number One return for a new series.

TonyD

Burnhan’s problem is that the more the writers try to do with her, the less relatable and interesting she becomes.

Personally Lorca, Pike, Saru, Tyler and even Stamets have all been far, far more interesting characters than Burnham. She reminds me a little bit of Captain Archer in that her character just seems vacillate all over the place depending on what the scene at had calls for rather than having a set compass. She seems to go from strong and professional one second, emotional and damaged in mere heartbeats and the net effect is that it makes her seem the least real and relatable of the show’s stars.

Making someone like that the captain in some misguided attempt at justifying what you’ve done with the character would really hurt the show.

JJ Wizkid

I’m a fan of This version of Capt. Pike…(awesome) Can’t stand Burnham…Don’t like the character or the way she’s played. Saru is my favorite…brilliantly played and by Doug Jones…would love to see him in the Capt’s chair.

c d

But if they did a spinoff Pike Enterprise series, what would they call it?

Jeffery

“Final Frontier”

AJinMoscow

The two captains so far have been so well-done by both Jason Isaacs and Anson Mount that if there is a new character brought in as Captain, the shoes to fill are massive.

Vulcan Soul

Captain Lorca was well done until the episode he was violently turned into a fascist, mustache-twirling, one-dimensional cartoon villain, invalidating much of the previous character work of season one. Now he is only a sad example for character assassination anymore.

Hauke Fischer

He was a devious schemer from the first time we saw him. He orchestrated the entire shuttle accident as a pretense to take Micheal on board.
As Micheal noted when she remarked about the unannounced transport and unnecessary course change and Lorca looked like his mom just found him with his hand deep inside the cookie jar.

Vulcan Soul

The point is not about the means but about the end goals. If, similiar to Section 31 before evil takeover, his goals were honorable and in the best interests of the Federation, such as for winning this war, as he said himself, then he would have been a complex, troubled, multifaceted anti-hero. Making him a cartoon villain was the easy way out, but one that destroyed the character and much of season one with it.

invincible warrior

Totally agree, I loved Lorca as Captain! I hadn’t mind if they had kept him as Mirror-Lorca, but as a good guy from there. This would have explained a lot of the season. Instead he turned 180° and became a moron, who can’t plan well and even more evil as the similar bad written Empress Georgiou.

ML31

Yep. Don’t count Lorca as a “well done” captain. He was fascinating only when we didn’t know he was really the “black hat” one dimensional guy. It’s sucks because the concept of a Captain who behaved the way he did was GREAT! Too bad they had to completely destroy it. The show has improved so the less said about season 1 (worst first season in the history of Trek) the better.

Captain Ransom

Actually, TNGs first season was pretty crappy. If it had been on network TV instead of syndication, it probably would have been cancelled.

Tiger2

I seriously doubt that. People complained about TNG first season but its ratings were actually decent, just as strong like the later seasons. And they stayed consistent throughout season one too meaning they never dropped much farther after Encounter at Farpoint.

Tiger2

Meant NOT as strong like the later seasons.

ML31

The viewing numbers were strong enough to keep the show going regardless of what one thinks of the quality of the episodes.

Captain Ransom

They didn’t have to worry about ratings in syndication. I worked at a TV where TNG was carried when it first came out. The station didn’t renew the syndication contract after the first year because ratings for it at that station were low. And it was quite common. They would lose stations but pick up others. That was the beauty of first run syndication shows. But I would hazard a guess that if TNG was on network TV, it would have been cancelled after that first season. Luckily, in syndication, it was allowed to continue and build a following.

ML31

The show is still supported by revenue generated from advertising. The more eyes there are the more money they can charge. The more solid a foundation the show is set on. This is true of network TV as well as syndication. Sure, syndication does allow for more producer freedom than network TV does. But they are still reliant on revenue. Where does the money come from if not the advertisers?

Captain Ransom

It depends on the market. Less ad revenue means that advertisers don’t want that time slot as opposed to wanting their ad in certain shows at certain times.
Viewership and ad time slotting can be closely related. An advertiser wants their ads on top performing shows. At the time, TNG was something that stations would buy and schedule at any time their network wasn’t carrying a network must run show. That didn’t allow most markets the flexibility to air TNG in prime time slots. I’m just saying that a lot of markets dropped the show due to poor performance in ratings after the first season and if the ad revenue was not good, that was the program manager’s to cancel or add another show in it’s place. Common occurrence back then. TNG also had the help of overseas markets thanks to syndication.

Tiger2

Maybe in some, but not most. TNG was already doing MUCH better in syndication than most first run shows were at the time. Do you at least have something to back this up? All I know is in major markets like the big cities it was a big hit but maybe less so in smaller ones.

Still there is very little proof TNG was anywhere close to cancellation in its first season. I do know there was some talk of it being cancelled in second season but that was mostly due to the writer’s strike and if it went on for too long.

ML31

Captain Ransom, that still doesn’t really explain where the revenue comes from if not advertising. As I understand it, the syndicated ads worked similar to network ads. There were some that were national ads that came with the show and a lot of space was left over for local ads. Also syndication allowed for a little more commercial time than the networks had as well. I am not aware of how many markets had a swap in stations for TNG. I do know that in my market it was on the same station from year one through 7. DS9 also aired on that same channel. I am also aware of one other market where it was on the same station the entire run as well.

Tiger2

Captain Ransom I have NO idea where you are getting the ratings were low? Yes maybe where you worked but overall they were decent in first season. Certainly here in L.A. where the show played in prime time throughout its entire run as did DS9.

Its no way TNG was going to be cancelled in its first season. It was attracting around 10-11 million viewers a week in its first year. By its final season that number have went up to about by 12-13 million which is unheard of for most TV shows as they usually go down after awhile certainly past season 5 but its not like it was a huge ratings jump either. Seasons 4-6 is where the show seems to had its strongest ratings.

Actually have a look for yourself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_episodes#cite_note-viewers1-1

As I said TNG was pretty consistent averaging 11-12 million viewers through its entire run. Some episodes even got higher than that average in its first season.

Captain Ransom

Like I mentioned, it varied from market to market. Of course the LA market would be bigger than say Baltimore or Seattle. Like I said, not being on network allowed it to play differently in each market around the world instead of just through the US.

Tiger2

Yeah but you are talking different circumstances as well. As you said part of the issue with syndication is that it isn’t guaranteed to show in prime time and that’s probably a big reason the show did initially fail in some markets to begin with.

I just don’t think your reasoning is that sound on this. The fact is TNG had a pretty big audience ESPECIALLY for a show that didn’t get the kind of advertising, market distribution or prime viewing spot normal network shows got. If anything it could’ve gotten MORE viewers on a network with those factors, but we’ll never know obviously.

But frankly its first season ratings suggest the show was anything close to cancellation. TNG had tons of problems opening season but having an audience wasn’t one of them. Now granted, it wasn’t The Cosby Show either but it was considered a success for Paramount when it premiered.

As bad as Encounter at Farpoint was for example, its still the second highest rated Star Trek spin off premiere ever with 15 million viewers. Voyager was first with 21 million. Oddly Discovery is last with just 9.6 million and that aired on CBS (which it probably would’ve been cancelled by the end of the season if the numbers fell a few million below that overall and why its less risk on a streaming site). But I’m guessing another million or so could’ve watched it on AA as well though.

Captain Ransom

What proof do I have? Well, I’ve worked in the industry since 1987 at various networks and stations. I know my business very well.
Syndication allows a show into markets that would not otherwise have access to a strictly network show back in the 80s. For example, a show like Cosby wouldn’t have been sold to a competing network. TNG was able to be sold to any network affiliate in the US plus be sold all over the world.
Streaming shows are a whole other thing. A show on AA will not be able to reach the same level as a syndicated show due to rights from CBS, CTV or Netflix. You would have to subscribe. Netflix has a hard time with other shows in terms of figuring out an exact way to measure rating for a particular show. Same thing with shows on Amazon Prime or any other streaming service. And instead of ad revenue, the get subscriber revenue.
Network, syndication and streaming are in the same business but the models are so different.
Network ratings are easy.
Syndication ratings are erratic due to different local market ratings.
Streaming is a whole different beast. The only real fact on fact we had for ratings was when CBS aired the pilot on CBS network. The rest is a beat guess by looking at subscriptions.

Tiger2

I’m not doubting your job, I’m simply saying the 30+ years TNG has been around I have never read ANYWHERE the show was in any kind of jeopardy ratings wise, including its first year. if anything I read the opposite and the show was considered a hit its first year, but that always gets overlooked because of all the production issues that it has become infamous for. TNG has been talked to death from every writer on the show through cast members about its best and worst times, but no one ever suggested it had ratings issues. That’s why I’m asking you where do you base this on?

To this day the ONLY Star Trek shows I know that were in danger of early cancellation was TOS every single season (which is now infamous for it lol) and Enterprise by its second season. And rightly enough, they were cancelled early. The others never sounded like they had any fear of cancellation. Ratings dropped for sure but they were all still pretty healthy shows. Again though, I’m just going by what I read only.

And I know all about how streaming works which is exactly why I was never upset about placing Discovery on one. Star Trek is an expensive show and DIS is VERY expensive, even by Berman era show standards. On a network a show like that would have to really compete to justifying another season. On a streaming site its given more room to grow. They are not expected to get what a TV show gets but priorities are different in general. But I don’t think DIS would’ve lasted long on CBS and clearly neither did Moonves, so for of all AA issues end of the day its probably better there long term.

Captain Ransom

I never said that TNG was in danger of being cancelled. I’m just saying that being in syndication gave it more markets to go into as opposed to being on CBS. Many markets, such as mine at the time, chose not to pick up a second season due to ratings in their local market. I worked in programming back then. I went to the big conventions where we would buy shows like this. I know a lot of people in my field. We look at future trends based on the previous year. TNG was never in danger of getting cancelled due to the pick up in markets it wouldn’t easily be available in. That’s why you have to look at local ratings per market or sales of rights to air. Was impossible to get a precise rating world wide. But if it were strictly carried only on CBS, the ratings would not have been as high. Know what I mean?

Tiger2

Dude this is what you said exactly:

“Actually, TNGs first season was pretty crappy. If it had been on network TV instead of syndication, it probably would have been cancelled.”

No I don’t know what you mean. You are clearly suggesting its ratings is what was bad. Networks put on crappy shows all the time, as long as people watch them they stay on lol. TNG didn’t have any issues with having an audience. The fact it was considered bad but yet still a hit and had no problem getting people to watch suggest the opposite.

CBS has some TRULY terrible shows and they are big hits. TNG would’ve been fine lol.

Tiger2

Here I just went and checked Wikipedia about it and it says exactly what I been suggesting all along about its first season:

“The new show indeed performed well; the pilot’s ratings were higher than those of many network programs,[21] and ratings remained comparable to network shows by the end of the first season, despite the handicap of each station airing the show on a different day and time, often outside prime time. By the end of the first season, Paramount reportedly received $1 million for advertising per episode, more than the roughly $800,000 fee that networks typically paid for a one-hour show;[17] by 1992, when the budget for each episode had risen to almost $2 million,[22] the studio earned $90 million from advertising annually from first-run episodes, with each 30-second commercial selling for $115,000 to $150,000.[23][24] The show had a 40% return on investment for Paramount, with $30 to $60 million in annual upfront net profit for first-run episodes and another $70 million for stripping rights for each of the about 100 episodes then available, so did not need overseas sales to be successful.[23]”

Look I’m not trying to give you a hard time about this but your info is just WAAAAAY off. You’re suggesting the very opposite of what the numbers and actual information about the first year of the show has suggested. This makes it clear TNG wasn’t just a hit for syndication opening year but that its ratings were comparable to most other hit network shows, even not being shown in primetime and in 10% less of the country.

You’re suggesting something that is just not remotely true and complete opposite what you’re saying.

Captain Ransom

See, you’re talking sales of the show overall through syndication. And you mentioned ratings for the first episode…in which market? Since it did not run on the same night or same time everywhere, you can only base the ratings from specific market regions.

Tiger2

Uh no, my first link literally showed you the ratings of the show for all 7 seasons. They were consistent throughout its entire run.

Captain Ransom, you started your argument with a highly vague response. I gave you straight numbers that doesn’t line up with the fact you said the show would’ve been cancelled via a network. Then what are you basing it on?? Yes its not successful in ever market of the country. Guess what you can say that about ANY show on the air, network or other wise. But what it DID show (and where it really matters) it was a huge hit in the biggest markets in the country. So why would you suggest it would be any less so on a network? Thats why I don’t follow?

It just sounds like you’re comparing it to whatever market you’re in and suggesting it was having problems overall when obviously that was not the case. The overall ratings tells you it was generally a huge success. I just don’t follow how you’re suggesting it would be ‘cancelled’ on a network if it was already getting the same numbers OVERALL as other network shows? And in many cases less prime viewing hours on top of that? In fact I said that’s probably why it failed in some places if you are showing it at 1 a.m. lol.

So it had just as many disadvantages as advantages being in syndication at the time.

ML31

In fact, TNG performed so well that it caused a bit of a boom in original syndication content. That tells me how well that show was doing.

Captain Ransom

Those rating are from whatever market they were pulled from. When I went to programming conventions buying new shows for my station, I spoke to programming managers in different markets. It faired fat better in some markets than in others. My boss and I would get a sense of new or existing shows from programming managers around the world.
And no, I never said that it was going to be cancelled. I just said that if it had a smaller reach, being on a network, that it wouldn’t have garnered the ratings necessary. But because of the reach it had, it wouldn’t have been. I’m talking as an industry professional talking with other industry professionals. There were a lot of factors that went into chosing shows back then. Syndication was great for shows to garner a wider following. TNG was number 2 in syndication only behind Jeopardy which is also a syndicated show.

FredH

Yeah (at least as far as Lorca is concerned; I still liked the season overall). I would’ve liked Lorca to turn out to be a Mirror Universe escapee who in fact was deeply inspired by and committed to the Federation he’d stumbled into — dark (as we saw from the start) by our standards, but for an MU guy really striving to do good. And that guy would’ve been perfect to recruit into/take over Section 31 (much as I love Michelle Yeoh).

Ad Astra Per Aspera

In YOUR opinion.

J.L.J.

Well that is very disappointing. We won’t know just how good season 3 will be until we see it down the road, but the best part about season 2 has easily been Captain Pike, so losing him will make it that much harder for season 3 to improve upon this season and be even better. Losing Captain Pike will change the dynamic of the show, and while I hope it’s for the better, I wouldn’t bet on it. Of course, I will forgive them completely if they just give us a Captain Pike led series.

dennycranium

“if they just give us a Captain Pike led series.”
So much YES!
Anson Mount and Ethan Peck have great chemistry together. A 5 year mission? A beloved ship? A rabid fan base clamoring for a show like this?
CBS? A 5 year business plan that makes sense….

Tony Hardy

Agreed. A Captain Pike series about his tour aboard the Enterprise is what the fans really want anyway.

ML31

Yeah. This is not unexpected but makes one wonder how they are going to make the show interesting. The best characters this season have been the one offs and guest players. The regulars (save for Saru) are still not interesting.

Luke Montgomery

Give Michael the captain’s chair. Give Spock, Pike and Number One their own spinoff show on the Enterprise :)

Sean Healy

I thought Michael WAS the captain of Discovery? I mean she makes all the decisions and listens to no one

ML31

She’s her own mini version of Section 31. Controlling everything from behind.

invincible warrior

Yeah, give her the chair and as soon she is on that chair, the Discovery explodes.
Serious, Saru is next in command!

Matthew Boesch

I wonder if this is why we’re getting an extra episode this season. so we can see the Enterprise return to active status and Pike returning to his post as Captain of the Enterprise.

Hauke Fischer

I’m sure the Enterprise will show up again at some point. I doubt the writers would pass up the chance for either a fight or team-up between Disco and the Big E. I know I wouldn’t if I was writing this.

JetpackJesus

Plus it would be a travesty to waste that beautiful design update they did for the Enterprise.

Harry Ballz

Ya gotta love the logic here……..get rid of the most interesting character (Pike) on the show, and keep the focus on Burnham, the most boring character on the show!

Bob

Pike can’t stay we know where he ends up…

That’s in roughly 10 years. So they have quite a bit of room there.

Vulcan Soul

“… and keep the focus on Burnham, the most boring character on the show!”

Accusations of bigotry incoming in 3…2…1…

Alex

The funny thing about this debate is that gender or skin color are not the reason people say she’s a boring or bland character. Yet it is exactly this argument that is used to shield her from any form of criticism. As if being a woman or black makes you immune to criticism. Michael Burnham is easily the weakest link among an amazing set of characters, and she would be if she was a white male. Her characterization doesn’t have anything interesting to offer. Even her backstory feels forced.

Adama

Agreed

VOODOO

Agreed on all points. Burnham is the kind of boring/blah that other ST spinoffs suffered from. Pike brought some much needed fun back to the series.

Danpaine

Agreed, Alex.

Sean Healy

Agreed! I mean she would make a decent co-star but she’s not ready to be front and centre especially when the writing is…just…plain….awful

Tiger2

I like Burnham a bit more than others here but yes she is a bit bland. But that can change in time and I did like her more this season than last at least. But it also proves boring characters has nothing to do with what century the shows take place in (as much as some people want to believe this strange idea) and simply the writing of the character. Hopefully she will improve more next season but if I’m being honest I would take Pike or Spock over her as the lead in a heartbeat.

Wheelie

Boring indeed. And they pretty much went the wrong direction from the start by making her an honorary Vulcan. I mean there’s a good reason no Vulcan had ever been the lead of a series before, not even Spock. It’s a rare actor who can make a stoic person look charismatic.

Adama

Agreed

VOODOO

Agreed 100%. Pike improved the show dramatically

Thorny

I think Tyler is the most boring character on the show.

Captain Ransom

Harry, he was only contracted for 1 season right from the start. This wasn’t unexpected news.

TonyD

The producers would have to be completely blind or incredibly bull-headed not to have noticed that Mount’s Pike and Peck’s Spock have quickly captured the imagination of the audience to an extent that Burham has really failed to do.

For all the spin-offs announced, I think a Pike-Enterprise show would be the easiest sell. If TPTB don’t at least explore the possibility of such a show, I really do think it will be because of ego more than anything else.

TO2112

Pike makes the show interesting. With the red angel there’s a tremendous opportunity to retcon his tragic story and keep him on Discovery, please don’t throw this character away!

MysticalDigtial

How the hell do you retcon him being crippled and ending up back at Taalos IV. those events will happen in the future, there is no way around that.

But Canon also left him on Talos. What if … someone tells the story a bit further …

Corinthian7

Technically this is a fair point. Speaking from memory I don’t believe that the Talosians had any trouble at all healing Vina’s physical injuries, they just didn’t have a terms of reference for what a human should look like. Pike could be physically healed and a future spin off with the character could theoretically take place at any point in the series timeline including the post TNG era. Of course it’s fair to say that most of us would be hoping for an Enterprise based series featuring Spock and Number One.

Michael Hall

The is no indication whatsoever from “The Cage” or “The Menagerie” that the Talosians had the capability to heal Pike of his injuries; the whole point of Spock’s mutiny in the latter was to get Pike to Talos IV so he could live out the rest of his life, in the words of The Keeper, “unfettered by his physical body.” That important caveat on the dangers of illusion was, in fact, what made the episode interesting. Arbitrarily curing Pike of his ills would just cheapen that.

Corinthian7

If you read my full comment you will see that I would prefer a Pike show set on the Enterprise. I was merely expanding on Svens post in which he speculated that you could tell a story after Pike was returned to Talos. Acknowledging this was possible and suggesting a way forward is not the same as advocating this option. I agree, it would cheapen the Menagerie to go down this route and it is a Pike on the Enterprise show that I want to see.

The River Temarc

There is no indication whatsoever from “The Cage” or “The Menagerie” that the Talosians had the capability to heal Pike of his injuries

I disagree with that. The Talosians indicated that they could have repaired Vina, but that they had no previous human specimen to serve as an instruction manual. (They seemed to know what her outward appearance would look like, admittedly.) But now they know human anatomy, which suggests that they would apply the same technique to Pike.

Roy Ryan

there are many years of untold stories of Pike before he ends up on Taalos IV. CBS would miss the best show of all Pike’s next 5 year mission on the Enterprise!

Tiger2

Not surprising but as someone who hated the idea of Pike being in every episode this season now hates the idea he isn’t returning next season. :(

He is easily one of the best things about this season and while I get they have to do it in terms of canon I don’t see why he can’t be a recurring character either? They find a way to bring in Sarek and Amanda on every few episodes, it wouldn’t be that hard to do the same for him.

I know people are hoping for a Pike spin off show but even if it were to happen it would still be years away. They may not even make the Section 31 a show until after Discovery is over so who knows? And Section 31 will be on the show regardless. But I’m not holding my breath on a Pike show until someone at least says they are thinking about it. So far, its been zip on that.

Corinthian7

They’re thinking about it Tiger2. How do I know? Look at season 2 of the show – a new captain that lives and breathes Starfleet values, Klingon’s with hair, and a more optimistic tone – just a few examples that prove they’re listening to fans. Likewise look at what’s happened with some of those other series they were developing. Khan seems to have been permanently shelved and we’ve not heard anything on Starfleet Academy and these were both concepts that didn’t resonate well with the fanbase. Recently we’ve been hearing that Section 31 is years away and is not a done deal. Don’t be surprised if a Pike series is fastracked in it’s place and CBS look for another vehicle for Georgiou.

DIGINON

The main problem with a Pike series is that it runs the risk of being very similar to Discovery. Some fans may not have a problem with that but CBS wants the various shows they are developing to be different in setting, tone and style to avoid “franchise fatigue”. So this may be the biggest obstacle to getting a Pike show (at least as long as Discovery keeps running).

Captain Danno

I would like a Pike show to be differentiated from Discovery by being a bit less serialized and more episodic like the original series. They could still have threads of story continuity to link things together, but having stand alone episodes would be different and take us back to a format that more resembles traditional Trek story telling.

Vulcan Soul

“I would like a Pike show to be differentiated from Discovery by being a bit less serialized and more episodic like the original series. ”

More episodic? How about more Utopian, optimistic and unabashedly positive too? Now that would be truly daring with the current zeitgeist :)

A34

I wouldn’t watch that.

Carike

Works for me.

Carike

Agreed.

Corinthian7

The casting of a pilot for the Picard series suggests that there will be a ship involved. Likewise, there’s a bridge set already in place for Section 31 so having two shows on Federation starships doesn’t mean the have to be the same. A Pike show offering more standalone 5 year mission type adventures compared to the more serialised arcs on Discovery could give us two very different shows. A TNG to Discovery’s DS9 perhaps.

ML31

Please… A Pike show would hopefully be more like TOS than TNG. And Discovery isn’t even close to anything DS9 had. At least in terms of story and character.

ML31 let’s recall that TNG was, in Roddenberry’s view, closer to his original vision (in first pilot with Pike) than TOS was.

That is, it wouldn’t be canon to make it too close to TOS…

I’m thinking an episodic show with Pike and Number One will inherently have a different feel because they are very different characters than Pike.

However, as we see with Discovery, the era was one with a bit less certainty and half the weight of Federation history anchoring and grounding Starfleet.

So, there is more scope for going out there and finding strange new world’s etc.

Corinthian7

TNG was standalone like TOS was DS9 had serialised elements to it. That’s the comparison I’m making as both shows were contemporaries much like DSC and a Pike shoe would be.

DIGINON

@ Corinthian7: And it was Kurtzman who said that DS9 was too similar to the other TNG era shows. So just doing one serialized and one episodic show is not what they are looking for, it would seem.

Corinthian7

@DIGINON He did indeed but he didn’t really elaborate on what he meant with that. I took from it that he was saying that if you were casually channel surfing and you turned on Star Trek there wouldn’t be anything immediately obvious to distinguish DS9 from Voyager, you could argue that it was very vanilla Trek. A Pike series and DSC would have there own distinctive visual palette being both unique but clearly idenfiable as Trek.

Tiger2

But I do think they don’t want it where its two different Starfleet ships taking place in the same period either. I think that’s another reason why they don’t seen too keen on producing one, at least not while Discovery is running.

Even in the golden era of Star Trek they tried very hard not to have the same format and why DS9 was set on a space station so not to feel like it was TNG. And of course when Voyager came around TNG was already going into movies and they threw Voyager on the other side of the galaxy just to separate them (even though DS9 was still on the outskirts of Federation space).

I think that’s the real fear, that these will basically be the exact same show in the same period occupying Federation space, just on a different ship. At least the Picard show is 150 years away from Discovery so its canon can be completely different even if its a ship based show.

And why I believe we may get a Pike show but I doubt its going to happen while Discovery is on the air. And if you factor in Section 31 then it would mean you would have three shows concurrently running in the same period as well. And if one of the cartoons takes place in the same period then even more so (but I am hoping those are in other eras in general just to differentiate them a bit).

Corinthian7

I get that Tiger and it’s a fair point. However, there’s been fan speculation from day one that DIscovery could be transplanted into another timeline/period. For all we know Chabon’s Short Trek is a sign post for season 3 and not a tie into season 2. I’m not of course saying this is what’s going to happen but the nature of the technology housed in Discovery plus the fact that Michael is nowhere to be seen come TOS opens up lots avenues that this series could take if it needs to reinvent itself to make space for a Pike show.

Tiger2

That would be cool if Discovery ended up in a post-23rd century timeline! Even crazier if its the 33rd century lol. NOT holding my breath on that but I would be all in for sure. Anything to see an advanced post-Nemesis timeline. And so far in the future nothing holds them back and a fun fish out of water story too.

Corinthian7

Thinking about it I think this is unlikely for next season as they’ve already announced Yeoh’s involvement but the nature of this show always means they can reinvent themselves. Also if you think about it season 2 of DSC has a completely different identity to its first season and yet they share most of the same actors, sets and writers so maybe we don’t have to worry too much about having 2 23rd Century Starship shows running concurrently.

Vulcan Soul

“The main problem with a Pike series is that it runs the risk of being very similar to Discovery.”

We all know there’s an easy solution for that:

Cancel Discovery after season 3 ;)

And on with Captain Pike and his crew of grown-ups!

ML31

“Cancel Discovery after season 3 ;)”

That was going to be my response, too!

Captain Danno

If a constraint to having a Pike show set on the Enterprise is to avoid the high production costs of another prestige series and having similar tones among the different Trek shows, an alternative to cancelling and replacing Star Trek Discovery is to adapt Star Trek Discovery into a Pike show. Discovery happens to be the name of the ship but the show doesn’t have to be based there long term. It could shift to a show set on the Enterprise with Discovery representing what the ship does, not what it’s named. Then you could keep Anson Mount and Ethan Peck, along with fan favorite characters from the current cast while still staying consistent with canon.

Tiger2

This is not going to happen. I know this is a fan board so people say what they really want to see but you have to be realistic. Discovery is going nowhere, its it own ship and crew and honestly should remain as such.

It will only confuse the identity of the show if the show took place on a completely different ship than the title of the show. At best Pike can show up with the Enterprise a few episodes but they are not going to transfer the Discovery crew there like that.

Captain Danno

I was just expressing an alternative to address some of the concerns I was reading in this comment section. I was not suggesting it will or should happen. I actually very much like Discovery as it is, but there are lots and lots of examples of TV Shows that for a variety of reasons take dramatic shifts in direction. So while it is highly unlikely, especially for Season 3, it is also not impossible at some point in the future they shake things up similar to how I describe above.

Tiger2

OK fair enough. I just think some people are getting a bit carried away. Obviously fans have grown to love the character as did I. But clearly CBS or Kurtzman doesn’t see the character as that important because at the very least the would be back next season, even if its for just a few episodes.

Thats why I think people maybe getting their hopes up a bit since they don’t seem to think they need them back next season at all to keep people tuned into Discovery. So that idea seems even less so.

Because they would be doing the opposite and keeping them around in SOME form between now and whenever they they showed up again full time as they are doing with Section 31 now. They announced those guys would be back in season 3 months ago, but they really want to keep Michelle Yeoh.

ML31

Since it was Pike who essentially revitalized the show, I wonder how the show will be without him. The characters they have already just are not good enough to carry a Trek show. They would need a really interesting sci-fi concept to make the show work. Tougher still, they seem to be married to the season long story arc. So that means they would have to gamble the entire season on one concept. If they pick wrong (as they have done in the past) it can totally sink the entire season.

Tiger2

I’m not going to judge anything until we see where things are left off after season 2 but maybe there is a real story reason why he won’t be back. All I know is Pike seems to literally be the most popular character on the show, even more popular from the few that did gain a following after season 1 like Saru and Tilly (although they may have gone too far with her this season). I always believe if you made one great character you can always make another but its going to start to feel old they find another new captain for everyone to grow on only to yank him out by the end of the season too. I really hope they just make Saru captain and call it a day.

ML31

I don’t think it matters why Pike leaves. What matters is the fact that he is going to leave. The character who completely revitalized the show will be gone. Unless they replace him with someone just as interesting I fear it will just fall back to season 1 status. And if they go with another silly season long story arc, that will not help the show any.

Tiger2

Well that’s what I mean, maybe he will be placed with someone just as interesting, we don’t know. A lot of people were convinced no one was ever going to top Lorca once he was gone and they found not only another great character but created a better dynamic in the show in general. So its not impossible or anything, Pike just also carries a strong name recognition that creates more interest as well. But I have said this in the past, I almost wish he wasn’t playing Pike but a new character completely and he could’ve stayed. But then that would’ve been missing the point of course. It’s just too bad but maybe they have a big surprise up their sleeve.

ML31

They would have to replace him with someone just as dynamic but then, that undermines the concept of having Burnham be the center of the show. The Lorca thing sucks on so many levels. Not the least of which is the concept of a morally gray captain can’t be used for some time because of him. GRRRR…..

martin

You don’t have to do that – have the Pike show be more traditional like TOS & TNG, of a new planet each week with standalone stories with maybe a small thread weaving the show – Discovery is a story per season. The issue with telling stories Discovery’s way is that the rewatchability is limited – you can’t pick up in the middle.

The River Temarc

Serious television these days is serialized. A highly episodic format is going to make this something like Hawaii Five-0 or new MacGyver, which is not what I, for one, am clamoring to see.

Tiger2

My guess is all the Trek live action shows will be serialized, bar none. We know Picard will be for sure. Maybe the animated shows won’t but even those I suspect they won’t be completely episodic either if they are following the animated Star Wars model.

Corinthian7

I wouldn’t want them to go completely old school standalone Tiger. I’d like an approach with some continuity in which we can have character development and they could reference what happened last episode without it being connected. I think a Pike show could working set during a 5 year mission in which we get planet of the week and serialisation running along side each other.

Danpaine

Count me in on that, VS.

invincible warrior

Section 31 series can die! It is one of the weakest parts of this season and Georgiou is playing a cartoon version of Prime-Georgiou. I don’t need this in series. Except they are making it a full spy thriller show, where the spies have are acting in very grey areas. But please not this corny mess.

A34

Nope, the Section 31 show will be awesome. Star Trek needs to grow up.

ML31

Yeah. A Pike show is something the fans seem to be jonesing for but there has been nothing from Kurtzman & Co even hinting at the possibility. I hope when they hired Mount that it included the possibility of use of Pike in the future.

Tiger2

It just sounds like more wish fulfillment from fans than anything from the producers. At least so far. Now people expect a show no one has ever mentioned being developed to be fast tracked and happens after Discovery third season and thats clearly not going to happen. And obviously no one is cancelling Discovery for the show either.

CBS and Kurtzman seems to have settled in where they see Star Trek in the next few years. Again I’m NOT saying it can’t happen, they would be stupid not to at least consider it knowing how popular the character has become in a very short time. And people seem to love the idea of having the original Enterprise back. It’s a win-win. Even more so because they can then slowly start to add other TOS characters on it in the future since there is nothing that says most didn’t join Pike’s Enterprise before Kirk did.

So there is a lot to mine there and get old fans onboard like they are doing with the Picard show. But none of that will be anytime soon when they have literally four other Star Trek shows being developed along with Discovery.

Corinthian7

“It just sounds like more wish fulfillment from fans than anything from the producers. At least so far. Now people expect a show no one has ever mentioned being developed to be fast tracked and happens after Discovery third season and thats clearly not going to happen. And obviously no one is cancelling Discovery for the show either”

Perhaps fast track was the wrong word to use in relation to CBS AA, prioritise might be a better choice. Why do I expect this now? If you recall back to when the season one finale aired I expected that they’d use this season as a test bed for a Pike series back then so why when the character has proved pretty much universally popular and the producers have shown that they’ve been revising their plans off the back of fan feedback would I change my mind now? The comparison I used back then was Daredevil Season 2 which introduced us to the Punisher and resulted in them fast tracking a series based on this character shortly after that season finished airing.This was a show nobody ever mentioned, it wasn’t part of Marvel’s agreement with Netflix it was basically just something that fans had wished for.

If a Pike show is greenlit then I would imagine that the plan would be to announce it at Vegas, an event that I believe Mount is scheduled to attend. I wouldn’t be surprised to see rumours leak online prior to that but the absence of such reports is hardly evidence that this show is not being discussed or developed. After all they managed to keep the Enterprise reveal at the end of season one secret until the episode aired.

Tiger2

I would agree with you if they didn’t announce a Section 31 show so quickly. I think if what you’re saying is true and this was a ‘test’ of some sort to see how much of a reaction he would have first then I don’t know if they would’ve announced so many other shows before they decided to make a Pike show or not?

I would completely agree with you about your Punisher example but I don’t think they are seeing it that way or they would’ve waited to see how Section 31 fared on Discovery before they announced that show too (especially being so controversial in general). I just think they have a game plan set and that’s the plan, at least for the next few years.

Now it doesn’t mean it can’t be the Pike show as well but you already have FOUR new shows in development, and so far only one has a production and premiere date which is the Picard show. The others all seem to be pending when they would even start production.

As I said I’m not saying one won’t happen, but I don’t see it showing up for a few years at best as I said in my OP. I don’t think the Section 31 show will happen until 2021 the earliest and that’s in development right now. The Picard show is the only one that has been fast tracked for obvious reasons (still crazy that show was announced just six months ago lol).

But yeah who knows maybe we will be surprised. And I do think in all honesty they are probably regretting coming out so fast announcing Section 31 looking at how fans have reacted to both it and Pike on Discovery. He’s a big hit and S31 has been mixed at best. I’m betting they may be feeling right now they put their money on the wrong horse but still taking a gamble.

Of course there is nothing stopping them from making Pike and Spock part of that show either. ;)

I just think its too much wish fulfillment since there has been absolutely nothing said or hinted at a spin off as being discussed. Also not a single rumor ANYWHERE one is even being considered. Not a great sign so far but that can change.

Corinthian7

And that game plan they’re going to stick to, does that mean we can look forward to a Khan show still? Or Starfleet Acadamy is that still going to happen? You’re probably right about them regretting announcing the Michelle Yeoh series, only the other week we had a news story which downplayed the development on it, in fact they almost made it sound like it might not happen. They announced the Section 31 show after season one, they had a character and an actress that seemed popular and the bonus scene they’d released after the season finale appeared to whet the appetite of fans. That show may still happen but given that the Section 31 plot elements of the new season have been the most divisive aspect this year it may not. Regardless, the point is they did not once mention during season one that they planned on developing a Section 31 show but you can bet from very early in the process, when they broke the story and decided that Burnham would rescue the Emperor, that even at that early stage they we’re doing it with that spin off in mind. It’s highly unlikely that they’d announce a Pike show before his run of episodes on Discovery finishes and given how Kurtzman and co seem to like spreading out these bombshells it’s equally unlikely that they’d announce such a series so soon after the confirmation that Discovery has been renewed for a third season.

Tiger2

To be fair those were all rumored but it didn’t mean they were all green lit. It sounds like they were considering a range of them from Khan to the Picard show and we now see what they settled on. And I’m not sure the Academy show is dead. I could’ve swore they brought it up a few months ago as still being developed. Khan is really the only one that was never talked about again (thank god).

As for Section 31 there is zero indication that show won’t be developed. We got an update about it from a CBS executive on this site literally just last week lol. They have made it clear the show is indeed still happening, it will be shooting in Toronto along side Discovery. The only issue seems to be when will they start because I’m guessing they are still trying to figure out how all the shows will be scheduled and what will come after what. This is what happens when you theoretically will have five shows all running at one time.

And I’ll say it again, I’m not saying a Captain Pike show won’t happen. AA is planning Star Trek shows for the next 20 years, I’m guessing its on the table at least. I just don’t think its happening anytime SOON if it happens, because all these other shows are still in development and most won’t show up for another year or two.

Look, I get it. Hardcore fans want to see a show. And I do too (but not stressing if we don’t get one). But I’m very practical about these things and CBS seems to be focused on Picard and Section 31 right now. They already have five shows in the burner and clearly they don’t see Pike as a huge priority if he’s not going to even show up next season while we know Section 31 will. That tells me a lot, mostly that Section 31 story line is important for the future.

Until I hear SOMEONE says they are considering it, not holding my breath until then. Already got burned on the next Kelvin movie lol. But I imagine we will be hearing something one way or the other by the end of this season.

Corinthian7

“To be fair those were all rumored but it didn’t mean they were all green lit. It sounds like they were considering a range of them from Khan to the Picard show and we now see what they settled on. And I’m not sure the Academy show is dead. I could’ve swore they brought it up a few months ago as still being developed. Khan is really the only one that was never talked about again (thank god).”

They weren’t greenlit but neither is Section 31. Khan was definitely more than a rumour though, it was reported through multiple sources and alluded to several times by Nicholas Meyer himself. That’s the point they’re obviously developing multiple concepts, it would be foolish to believe that we know everything that they’re talking about or even if the ones that are getting the most attention now will even make it to screen

One thing that keeps coming up when you dismiss the possibility that they could be developing or fast tracking a Pike series is that we haven’t heard anything. Tell me Tiger did you assume that we found out about the Section 31 series almost immediately after they started developing it? If your answer to that question is yes then CBS announced that series after the success of season one. You would effectively be assuming CBS to be a reactive business and it would be a real head scratcher as to why you wouldn’t think it a strong probability that they would react in the same way to the reception that Pike has received in season 2. If you’re answer to my question is no then you believe that CBS started secretly developing the concept for sometime before choosing a time to release this information. Therefore if you believe that there is a precedent that they only announce a show when they are ready so it would be foolish to dismiss the possibility that they’re developing another series just because they haven’t told us yet. What I want to make clear Tiger is that I have no problem with you having a different opinion, that’s fine and you don’t even need to have a reason why it could just be a gut feeling. It’s the criteria that you’ve used to dismiss those that do think it’s likely that I disagree with.

“As for Section 31 there is zero indication that show won’t be developed. We got an update about it from a CBS executive on this site literally just last week lol. They have made it clear the show is indeed still happening, it will be shooting in Toronto along side Discovery.”

If you read that article again (it’s dated 11th March) and skip to paragraph 4 you will find:
‘It’s worth noting that the way Stapf is talking makes it sound like the Section 31 show is set to go, however, CBS has yet to officially confirm a full series order’

I’m not saying it’s cancelled but I am saying it’s not guaranteed.

“Look, I get it. Hardcore fans want to see a show.”

You’ve said things like this a few times and suggested that it’s just wish fulfillment. I disagree, we’re not talking about season 8 of DS9 or a Romulan Wars mini here we’re speculating on something that is very credible and in line with how CBS has developed their other Star Trek shows.

“and clearly they don’t see Pike as a huge priority if he’s not going to even show up next season while we know Section 31 will. That tells me a lot, mostly that Section 31 story line is important for the future.”

It tells you what you want to believe. I could argue that they might not want the Enterprise actors available for season 3 because the Pike show has jumped ahead of Section 31 in the queue so they won’t be available. That would be pure speculation but then the exact same could be said of your statement.

“Already got burned on the next Kelvin movie lol.”

Lol I know, I’m pretty sure I recall you debating with me when I suggested that the Kelvin movies could be scrapped as well! Bottom line neither of us are in the know and we’re not going to change each other’s minds but it will be fun finding out what they’ve got planned regardless of which direction the studio moves in.

Tiger2

Corithian7,

I don’t know exactly what you want me to say at this point? I can’t be more clearer, until someone, somewhere at least say they are considering making the show, much less its being developed or green lit, then I can’t really assume one is happening since there is nothing to suggest one is yet. But if and when that happens, then great. At the moment its only speculation from fans, literally nothing more. And as I said we will probably be told something by the finale, so I haven’t dismissed anything. I just want to wait until someone says something about it publicly first. But obviously can believe what they want.

As far as Section 31, it hasn’t been made official yet but clearly they want to do it, hence why Section 31 will be back next season. But sure something can happen where the show may not be green lit but everyone sounds like its more a matter of when and not if.

Lastly I’m not saying Khan wasn’t considered. I’m saying it probably was and most likely rejected because it’s literally the only one they have never discussed openly about like all the others. Again that’s the hope. ;)

Corinthian7

I’m not looking for you to say anything in particular Tiger but if you post a critique of peoples views on a message board you have to be able to accept that those same people have the right to respond and offer a counter argument. You’ve replied to my posts with specific points and I’ve directly addressed those points with a counter argument using a rhetorical question to highlight what I considered to be inconsistencies with how you’ve arrived at your view. These things we debate on here, they’re mostly speculation. There’s absolutely no way to prove one point or the other until somebody official comes out and announces something but I’ve always liked to approach things with a kind of dialectic logic. That idea of two opposing hypothese being debated so that a certain ‘truth’ can be uncovered which in turn forms the next hypothesis and so the conversation continues. That’s all I’m doing here buddy, just speculating and forming theories on a TV show by interacting and contrasting my views with other fans. You’re a good poster dude, you always add an interesting voice to the conversation and on more than one occasion you’ve changed my mind on a subject – just not today :-)

Tiger2

The only critique there is no PROOF a show is being considered. You think it is, OK, that’s fine. Nothing wrong with that, speculation is a huge part of what we do on message boards, I get that. But until there is proof of some kind, sorry, it does sound more like wish fulfillment to me. I may want Beverly and Picard married with kids on the new show (and I do lol) but I can’t say they are considering it either without any proof, right? That’s the only point I’m making. But could you be right, of course. I just can’t agree you ARE until someone confirms it first. But no harm or foul and we are probably going to know one way or the other probably pretty soon as I said. They know the fans are talking about it so at some point they have to at least acknowledge it.

And I’m just more concentrated on the shows we do know that are coming.

Tiger2

Just to make this clear lol, if you are just saying you think they are considering it that’s totally fine! Maybe that’s what you mean and I just read it wrong. If so I apologize of course. I just have a stickler for direct meaning, especially on the internet where as you know people say things quite loosely. But that’s probably all you meant and I didn’t read it close enough.

Corinthian7

Ah right, this is starting to make a bit more sense now lol, Yes, just to be clear this is 100% an opinion on my part. An educated guess if you will, one that’s underpinned by certain assumptions I’ve made. Now I will accept that these assumptions could be flawed, maybe they’re distorted by my obvious bias towards wanting a Pike show so yeah I could end up being totally wrong. At the moment though I’m clearly feeling pretty confident in my theory and I’m realising this came across to you in my initial post like I was stating a hunch as though it was a fact! Apologies that wasn’t my actual intent.

Tiger2

OK, sorry I misunderstood you. I was really confused why you were so adamant about it lol. That’s why I pushed back so hard, but yes I understand now and I agree.

And you’re not alone, if this board has made clear obviously MANY want a Pike show lol. I just don’t want to get my hopes up until I hear something at least. But then again we are getting FIVE freaking shows now so I can’t be too upset if it doesn’t actually happen.

But I have a feeling this won’t be the last we see of Pike regardless. CBS is trying to MCU Star Trek up now, so my guess he’s going to be popping up in other projects and shows if his own show isn’t feasible.

A34

He can show up on the Section 31 show.

Corinthian7

Agreed. There’s lots of opportunities for characters like Pike, Sarek, L’Rell etc to jump between shows. I think it’s only a matter of time before CBS starts offering franchise contracts to certain actors similar to what CW and AMC have done with the Arrowverse and Walking Dead universes.

Corinthian7

No that’s okay, I did exactly the same and it’s my fault for not communicating my initial point accurately enough. After that I was equally confused as to why you seemed to think that the it was a fact that they definitely wasn’t considering a Pike series. Obviously just crossed wires there, like you say it’s often difficult to understand exactly what somebody means on the internet. I’ll end this comment by agreeing with you lol. Whether we get a series, a mini, movies or just guest appearances on other shows I’m sure you’re right and one way or another we’ll see Mount in the role again.

Char

I just wish they bring back Jason Isaacs as Prime Lorca. He was the best thing in Season 1.

Yep!

Ashley

I’d be disappointed if Prime Lorca had a much different personality though, or was ‘weaker’ or friendlier. I liked Mirror Lorca because he was no-nonsense and blunt, and he was a complex character. I’d rather see him return, which is entirely possible…

Also, for the record, I want a Pike/Spock/Enterprise series too.

Corinthian7

Prime Lorca should be different to his counterpart for sure but we could expect him to have an edge given how much time he’s spent in the Mirror Universe.

ML31

I would expect him to be a more like a Pike clone when you see what a mustache twirler the evil Lorca was.

Corinthian7

“I would expect him to be a more like a Pike clone when you see what a mustache twirler the evil Lorca was.”

@ML31 Isaacs said he only agreed to do do Trek because he wouldn’t have to do the traditional Starfleet captain, what makes you think he’s changed his mind about that?

ML31

I never claimed he would change his mind at all. In fact, I would be very happy if Lorca was 100% forgotten and never ever mentioned again. I was just theorizing that if prime Lorca showed up, given the nature of what the MU is he would be the opposite of MU Lorca. A very good guy.

Corinthian7

@ML31 Yeah I get they lag dude but K was talking about Isaac’s changing his mind over the type of character he wants to play. He was pretty clear that he does not want to play another Boy Scout but at the same time he seems to want to come back. I think he still has enough clout that if he does the. He’d still be able to play the character with an edge. I’d be disappointed if they resurrect Mirror Lorca.

Corinthian7

Not sure what gibberish I managed to type above but that last reply should have read @ML31 Yeah I get that dude but I was talking about Isaac changing his mind over the type of character he wants to play. He was pretty clear that he does not want to play another boy scout but at the same time he seems to want to come back. I think he still has enough clout that if he does then he will still be able to play the character with an edge. I don’t think he‘d do a Mount impersonation and I’d be disappointed if they resurrect Mirror Lorca.

Tiger2

Yeah I still wouldn’t have a problem seeing Prime Lorca showing up but I suspect it wouldn’t be a full time thing either. It would be interesting if he was at least shown next season though.

TonyD

My vision of Prime Lorca would simply be the Lorca we got for the first 2/3 pf season 1: a morally gray character who at the end of the day seemed to be trying to do the right thing. His rebuking of Starfleet over the defense of Pahvo for example was what I had hoped would be his defining moment. Sadly, they decided to just throw that character away.

ML31

Yep. It’s been said time and time again. Lorca was the lone bright spot in season 1. Until he wasn’t. I think discussing anything from season one doesn’t do the show any favors.

Praetor Tal

Lorca Prime is the Red Angel. He’s making his way back to the Federation from a distant future, exiled there by the nefarious Mirror Lorca.

;-)

ML31

He was. Until he wasn’t.

Calastir

He’s the best part of the show, so naturally they get rid of him.

Gary 8.5

He wasn’t brought in to be a permanent part of the show.

Calastir

That was their second mistake.

ML31

They’ve made a lot more than 2 mistakes at this point. Fortunately they are making attempts to repair their mistakes. Sadly some are not repairable.

PaUl

This actor could easily play Kirk (with a little makeup adjustment) in the Kelvin Trek movies as Pine does not want to return!

Dr Beckett

I love Mount’s portrayal of Pike. Just love it!!
If he doesn’t get a spin-off series then how about a limited or mini series consisting of 2 or 3 feature length episodes?

Carike

Good option! He is the best thing about Season 2 for sure.

Tiger2

Yeah this would be a great idea actually! They keep saying we are going to see future Trek in different formats then why not an actual mini-series? Or even a set of movies? For AA obviously but make a solid movie once a year with the crew. That way they don’t have to worry about trying to find its own place with all the other shows running during the year and can be dropped when there is no new Star Trek running.

And AA needs to start making movies, FAST! It seems to be the only streaming site that not only lacks any real movie library but hasn’t produced any original films on their own. You’re going all in with Star Trek, might as well create a movie series around it too.

Corinthian7

Can they make TV movies though or would this step on Paramounts toes? I certainly would be happy with this concept I just have no idea if their arrangement would allow it.

Tiger2

I don’t see why not? Paramount produces theatrical films, this will just be TV movies basically or what more people will really see them as, two part episodes basically. Maybe there is some legal barrier that will stop them but I don’t see why it would since this wouldn’t be in competition with whatever Paramount is doing. It’s completely different mediums.

Corinthian7

Yeah I think You’re probably right as the pilots for all the Berman era shows were all feature length TV movies so what’s the difference I guess.

Support Your Local Salt Vampire

BOOOOOOOOO! Pike’s presence turned Discovery into a consistently good show.

Boo

Technically it is the writing given to Mount coupled with the acting that all helped – as long as writing for a new captain comes to the same level, there’s no reason it can’t remain consistently good. Anson Mount is not the only actor who can have a great presence.

Spiked Canon

no, it’s most definitely the acting.

Gary 8.5

No it’s most definitely the writing.

Visitor1982

Let’s give Pike, Spock and Number One their own spin-off!

If — IF, mind you — CBS isn’t already planning a Pike/Spock/#1 show on the Enterprise, then they are dunderheaded beyond belief. Even if they weren’t planning one at the beginning of the season, they’d be fools not to take notice of how well people have responded to those elements. Heck, even people who aren’t big fans of Discovery seem to have responded well.

Vulcan Soul

Let’s face it, such a spin-off would be way too “conventional” for the hip audience CBS imagines. Because of its cast, its stories and its vibe. They already had that chance in Discovery episode 1 and they turned it into the opposite, on purpose.

Gary 8.5

Exactly!

A34

Well it would be boring. I rather see something new like the Picard show and Section 31.

Roy Ryan

You nailed it, Pike’s Star Trek adventures!

Michael Hall

Well, speaking as a long-term (since the early ’70s) fan I can say that I’d personally have very little interest in such a project, though I’m probably the world’s biggest booster of “The Menagerie.” Been there, done that, thanks. But announcements like this never seem to fail to bring forth a gusher of self-entitled fan indignation, and that never fails to amuse.

Tiger2

A Pike show wouldn’t be my first choice either. I would prefer to see something completely new and NO prequels. But that said I can’t see how this wouldn’t be an instant hit and its a known commodity with the characters already set up thanks to Discovery.

But if I had my choice of a Pike show or something completely new, I would take the latter actually. And it goes the same for the Picard show if I had to choose between that and a new show altogether (as long as the new show was post-Nemesis). But the Picard show actually does sound like it will be a new concept and not just a TNG revival so I’m getting pretty excited about it.

A34

They don’t want to step on the toes of the Star trek movies.

Vulcan Soul

The only reason Captain Pike, Number One and Spock should not return to Discovery’s season 3 is so they can get their own spin-off show.

MAKE IT SO!

Hauke Fischer

After the events of “Project Deadalus” i doubt Burnham will become Captain anytime soon.

Jonny1212

That’s problem with prequels. No one was surprised that Captain Pike was going to leave Discovery. Just like all sentient life in the Galaxy will NOT be destroyed. Prequels are very predictable and anticlimactic.

Trek in a Cafe

TBH knowing that they fear something which will not happen gives the writers more room for creativity finding a solution — I hope.

Alex

Pike needs his own show. And if it comes down to an either/or decision between a show set during the pike years on the Enterprise or a section 31 show, they should kill the section 31 show. Even a she thought prequel with georgiou would be more interesting I guess.

Adama

The one thing that really is working this season and they take it away. I would gladly give Discovery for another show about this Pike and Spock in the Enterprise.

Martina

Has Number One even been a part of THIS season? She ate a hamburger in one episode and that was pretty much it! So disappointed thus far as I was really excited about her being on the show…I was thinking earlier that maybe they were setting it up for her to become the next captain of the Discovery which would explain why she left the Enterprise in TOS…but I guess not?

Sebi

I don’t get it too. They cast Rebecca friggin Romijn in a role that could – as far as we’ve seen – played by a glorified extra. You’re right, she came out of nowhere, basically just ate a Hamburger and disappeared.

Either she is the next captain or the red angel. If not, why would they need that kind of actress…

Corinthian7

Perhaps because this season has effectively been one long, back door pilot for an Enterprise based spin off.

Jacek

Exactly, she’s referred to as a “recurring role” here, and there are articles elsewhere saying that two “major characters” won’t be back. That’s a bit of an exaggeration for the cameo. I really wish they made a proper character out of her, with a name and a role in the story. Maybe in the finale the Enterprise will appear to save the day, with her in command, in the style of Sulu’s Excelsior in ST6.

Jacek, I think you’ve underscored a key point.

It’s really not clear how much news this contains.

The Deadline article has intelligence about what Mount and Romjin’s contracts negotiated one year ago look like. (Mount on every episode, Romjin recurring, one year.)

That’s all. Just what Discovery’s execs could contract for as of early 2018.

There was a major course correction at the start of the season, and they didn’t even know whether they would find a suitable adult Spock at that point. Add to that the firing of the showrunners and the positive reception of Mount’s portrayal.

We don’t know what contract negotiations have been underway for season 3. Could be that a transition with recurring roles is planned somewhat like we’ve seen for Michelle Yeoh.

Ethan Peck seems to be talking about the relationship with Burnham ‘running into season 3’ so perhaps his contract runs a bit further.

All to say, Deadline has information on what was, but not what is or will be. July production is a good ways away, and CBS will be dribbling out details to maintain fan interest even once they have commitments locked down.

Roy Ryan

I hope that Pike gets a spinoff Enterprise series.

WhomAreYou

That is a shame. Anson Mount has been the highlight in Season 2. It almost now feels like a proper TREK series.

I would like TPTB to killed off Bur-Nham. She is so depressing. I think she needs to communicate with a helpline.

Commander K

I remember the same disappointment when Lorca wasn’t returning for Season 2. Great character and actor, but not a huge disappointment as I’m sure they will find someone equally as capable in season 3

Spiked Canon

except that his character went bad. Pike is by far the best thing Discovery has done

Corinthian7

Don’t jinx it dude, everybody was still loving Lorca at this stage ;-)

TrekkieDayton72

Please give Pike a couple of seasons of the Enterprise under his command.

Jemini

They’ll probably bring Kirk back for season 3 because this is their modus operandi. The fact they need the old characters over and over doesn’t suggest confidence.

I love this Pike but bringing him and Spock in was unnecessary, a nice extra thing to be grateful about but not be greedy. He isn’t the protagonist and neither is Spock: the show is about Michael&co, move on.

A34

You just made that up, why are you acting like it’s a fact?

Michael Hall

Really. Criticizing the producers for a decision they have yet to make or announce is a bit much, even for this site.

Jemini

They keep using old characters since season 1 and they also said they wouldn’t put Spock here yet they did. So my thinking they might do that again is barely unfair, let alone the most rude or mean comment you’d ever read on this site.

Michael Hall

Not sure that the word “probably” means what you think it means, then.

Jemini

Michael, maybe you have a different dictionary then. ‘probably’ means you think something is likely to happen but you aren’t sure or it isn’t a fact. It’s a hypothesis. Since they already used other old characters, I think it might happen again regardless Pike coming back. There is a thing called sarcasm too, you know. Maybe I don’t really think they’ll use Kirk.
You guys need to chill.

Jemini

A34, overreacting much? the only fact I stated is that they keep using old characters, which is true, so I THINK they will probably do that again. Probably.
Chill.

A34

I’m not overreacting. I’m just calmly asking a question. I apologize if my comment sounded angry.

Grant

Kirk would be 17 years old in the current discovery timeline

ML31

No, he’d be in his early 20’s.

Chancellor Gowron

Did anyone expect him to stay for season 3? He has to return to Enterprise.

Gary 8.5

I didn’t.
I get the disappointment.
But,there also seems to be shock, I don’t get that.

Tiger2

I guess from some people’s POV if he was already away from Enterprise this long, how come he just can’t be away a little longer? Let’s face it, being away from his ship this long is already a stretch. They gave a very convenient excuse his ship broke down so naturally once it was fixed then he would go back. But whose to say when that would happen? Thats the thing, they already whipped up a pretty ridiculous reason why he’s on the Discovery full time, there is no reason why they couldn’t keep that going a little longer if they really wanted him back.

But OK, they actually want to keep it to canon which they should be commended for but I don’t see why he can’t at least come back in a recurring role either? According to the article he’s not coming back at all but maybe they have radical plans for the show next season.

A34

I thought everyone knew he was leaving. New Cap every season.

DeanH

Too bad but not exactly unexpected. Fans know that Pike was the long-term Captain of the Enterprise and was replaced by Kirk, so this is not exactly a shock. Besides, considering Anson Mount is already confirmed for STLV in August, he knew his calendar was free. The rest of the Disco cast may also be there but they won’t have a confirmed shooting schedule until things get rolling back up in Toronto until later this summer. As for next season, Saru seems much better equipped to take over than before OR they bring in Prime Lorca OR a completely new character, maybe from canon. Any one of those three options IMO would be good.

madtrekfanuk

I’ll add that I too would love to see a spin-off series set on the Enterprise with Anson Mount as Captain Pike. He has been a revelation throughout season 2 and has effectively made the character his own… More please (oh and the Enterprise too)

To be honest I would still love to see a Star Trek series set after the events of TMP (V’Ger incident) so about 2273 with Kirk and crew on the refit Constitution Class Enterprise (that’s the only Enterprise in my opinion) undertaking another five year mission (as alluded to in the expanded universe novels) but hey, what do I know?

Professor Spock

Who will be the new captain? Pike is the best captain on this show. He is way better than what Lorca can ever be.

Professor Spock

Pike should get his own show on the Enterprise. It should connect to TOS somewhat. Discovery could go anywhere else.

VZX

I’ll join the chorus:

Make a new spin-off show based on the Captain Pike Enterprise!

Keep Anson Mount as Pike, Romijn as Number One, and Peck as Spock. But cast a Dr. Boyce and the other characters from The Cage! As far as the Enterprise sets: maintain the basic lay-out but update the controls, displays, etc. Also, don’t make the sets so expansive like Discovery.

Maybe in season 2 or 3 you could have a young Ensign Kirk on the show.

Corinthian7

It would probably stretch credibility too far having Kirk on the Enterprise all that time and having to find excuses for him not to run into the captain a
just so say they can still have their first meeting when Pike hands over control of the Enterprise to him ;-) No, of course they could bring Kirk on the show. Just have a story in which Spock has to team up with a young lieutenant from the Farragut, or the Republic or which ever ship his future Captain happened to be serving on during that time. Show perhaps that history between the characters that was alluded to in WNNHGB.

Michael Hall

Kirk didn’t meet Pike until he took over the Enterprise from him. No Ensign Kirk, please.

A34

Tilly talks about Kirk in Star Trek Online.

VZX

Good point. How about having Gary Mitchell on board then? But still, a Pike Enterprise show just sounds so cool.

Grant

Kirk would be a teenager at this time . He is 27 when he takes over the enterprise or maybe 28

ML31

No, he was in his early 30’s.

Damien

so gold, blue and red uniforms for Disco’s crew next year??

ML31

Well, I did find it weird that the ship in deep space got the “new uniforms” before one that was much closer to home did. But at least they tried to fix that problem.

ML31

Follow up… It seems that the deep space ship got the new uniforms. But not the admirals or anyone on any ship close to home. Since the colored shirts are now the thing, why are the Section 31 admirals as well as Cromwell wearing the old ones?

A34

Starfleet seems to have many different uniforms for different assessments. No one complained when the Enterprise D didn’t switch to the uniforms from DS9?

The real reason is budget, costumes cost money. Plus those TOS bright color uniforms look awful. Even in the JJ movies they found every which way to get out of those uniforms and into something better looking.

ML31

No, they actually don’t. The TNG guys did indeed change their uniforms. Only Voyager didn’t but they had a legitimate excuse.

I know the real reason is because the STD production sunk a lot of money (wasted as it turns out) into the new uniforms only to have a lot of fans complain about them. Regardless of your personal opinion of the uniforms of the era, they are what they are. If they wanted to do their own uniform and keep their show in the prime universe the only option was to go to a previously unseen era in the ST franchise.

A34

TNG only changed the uniforms because the cast was threatening to sue, and if you look very closely you can see extras still wearing the old uniforms right up until the show ended.

I like the Disco uniforms, much better than those multi colored teletubby TOS uniforms.

ML31

Ooookaaaaay……..

Tiger2

True, the DS9 uniforms were originally for Starfleet officers serving aboard space stations. They later decided to make them the de facto uniforms once Voyager was created.

But they at least have a real consistency between each other. The DIS and TOS uniforms look like they belong on two different shows completely because we know they had no intention of even introducing the TOS uniforms on this show. That came later when fans complained and they tried to appease them like they did with so many things in second season.

Its also why I believe Fuller saw the show as basically a reboot, at least symbolically if not in name.

A34

The DISCO uniforms look very similar to the Prime Kelvin uniforms we saw on the first JJ movie.

From what I read Fuller wanted the DISCO uniforms to look more like the TOS ones. Thankfully he was overruled. The colors are just too bright and wouldn’t look good on screen. Wasn’t that one of the reasons they switched the command colors around in TNG?

Just look at how they removed the colors during 90’s Trek. The Black and Gray uniforms were the best in my opinion.

Tiger2

I’m talking about the actual Discovery uniforms as opposed to the TOS uniforms Pike showed up with in season 2. They are night and day.

And if Fuller wanted the uniforms to look more like TOS, well its good he made one decision fans can get behind lol. And CBS is obviously aware NOW it was an idiotic decision to ignore the TOS style altogether and hence why they showed up again this season.

It’s very simple, if you want to ignore TOS canon, fine, REBOOT it! Its really that simple. At the very least, make it known it exists in the timeline and THEN explain why these guys wear a completely different uniform from what we saw in The Cage, right? That would’ve been acceptable.

Because if you’re going to tell fans with a straight face everything from hairless Klingons to advanced technology like spore drives and holograms were in the same timeline of TOS without explaining any of it, then you are going to get a lot of push back. And clearly they finally recognized that.

Too bad it wasn’t before they shot the pilot.

A34

Let it go Tiger, Let it go…

Tiger2

Like the good ole days huh? Yeah, you know what I’m talking about. ;)

Hey I’m not ignoring you at least anymore.

A34

Good ole days? You talking about 90’s trek?

Anyway, I liked all the changes. The Klingons look better bald.

Tiger2

Keep playing stupid. You’re not fooling one, seriously. ;)

And its OK you liked them bald. But it totally went against canon and why it was stupid to do it. THAT said though, if they actually told us WHY they were all bald from the beginning like we finally got in second season, more people would’ve been OK with it. That’s what is funny, we are getting all these explanations AFTER the fact. If they came up with them upfront and simply gave us reasons for them, people would’ve responded better in general because they would now have a clear understanding to those differences in the timeline. That’s what I’m saying.

In other words be proactive, not reactive.

A34

Not everything needs to be explained Tiger.

BTW… I really think you’re confusing me with someone else.

Tiger2

I’m not.

And no one said everything needs to be explained. But when you take a species that has looked primarily the same for 30 years and over 100 episodes and films just to completely change them (while oddly enough all the other species look the same as before) then you are going to get people scratching their heads. Even more so when having hair IS an important part of canon. And I know you’re the same guy because we had this exact argument many times before.

I get it, you liked Discovery being different, no one is saying you can’t, but they got the backlash they did for a valid reason.

ML31

In total agreement. I’m not adverse to rebooting Trek. Just say you are doing it! Also, while the changes were indeed jarring, they could have been made tolerable had the show been better. It’s almost as if they were banking on the show being good in order to get around all the production design changes. That didn’t work at all for them. The bad show only compounded the issues.

ML31

The Discovery uniforms don’t look anything like the KU ones. In fact, it’s the KU ones that look like they belong in TOS. Pike even wore originally something more like the KU and TOS.

ML31

Yeah. I think Discovery was 100% intended to be a reboot but someone insisted it not be called that out of some irrational fear that fans would not accept it as such. I think that is the same foolishness that required the Nimoy Spock backstory for Star Trek ’09. For some oddball reason Trek producers fear fans will just not accept a reboot. So Discovery ended up being a reboot in every way except in name.

Corinthian7

People are invested in the prime timeline. Most of us persevere with a show even if we’re not happy with all the creative choices because we feel committed to it. If Trek does a complete reboot, then sure I’ll give a go but if it doesn’t grab me then I’ll treat it like any other brand new show that I’m not especially enjoying – I’ll just stop watching. So yeah, I get why they might be afraid of completely rebooting.

ML31

I get that many fans are invested in the prime time line. But that doesn’t mean a reboot is doomed to failure. I don’t understand where other franchises can reboot but Trek can’t. Again, I would personally rather not see a reboot. But that doesn’t mean I am against the idea. I had no problems with the KU “reboot”. And no one I personally know who are fans would have a problem with a reboot. Although, the fans that I know had no idea Discovery even existed until I told them about it…

Tiger2

Agreed. Fuller clearly wanted to do a reboot, but he was probably told they can’t call it that because they wanted to market it being in the prime timeline again and they saw how badly people reacting to the Kelvin movies being in another universe. So he just called it a ‘reimagining’ instead which is basically just a softer word for reboot.

JetpackJesus

I assume they gave Enterprise the new uniforms first because it was scheduled to be away on extended service at the time of the transition, and then they put off the rollout for the rest of Starfleet when a war broke out.

Regardless, I really like the blue uniforms. They seem like a sensible bridge between Enterprise and TOS uniforms. And I think they just look good.

ML31

I agree, they do look good and they look like they came between Archer and Kirk. But they sure as hell look like they came from about 100 years before Pike. They look much closer to Archer’s time than Kirk or Pike’s.

Old Trekker

Dear Producers of CBS All Access Trek,

Dump the Section 31 series and go with a Pike captained Enterprise series.

Seriously.

A34

Dear Old Trekker,

No.

Seriously

CBS

Tiger2

It seems like that’s what the overwhelming majority of what fans want, especially when you look at the reception of both Pike and Section 31 this season. One is a sure fire hit and the other is mixed at best.

Unfortunately it does look like they already have a big head start on the Section 31 show and unlike Mount they already said Michelle Yeoh is coming back next season so they probably already have set in place the future place of that show.

I actually like the idea of a Section 31 show but wouldn’t complain if it was replaced for a Pike spin off either. Or maybe just combine them somehow?

Phil

I’m okay not dusting off the good ship Enterprise for another go round. Been saying since Trek 09 was announced that the Federation is a big place, there’s nothing wrong with exploring it a little more in depth.

But then, I could be wrong….

Fred Javelina

I think we should be cautious about throwing around terms like “what the overwhelming majority of fans want.”

Your personal reception of the show cannot be generalized to everyone’s reception of the show.

What maybe 50 out of 100 regular commenters on ONE website say they want does not at all represent any sort of statistical basis for making such a claim.

You are certainly not doing a scientfic poll recruiting every Star Trek fan site, everywhere, in every language, or reading every article, in every magazine / blog / entertainment section of the newspaper, in every language, worldwide.

Nor do you have access to CBSAA, Space or Netflix’s audience numbers, Nielsen data, test audience reactions, social sentiment analysis, social media data, audience demographics, merchandise sales data, etc etc etc to allow you to build any sort of socio-economic / psychological profile of the worldwide audience that would let you definitively say “most people who watch the show like ____”.

The fact that the show is streaming worldwide into territories where Star Trek was never really seen before also means there is a large audience that is new to Trek, that doesn’t come knowing any sort of “canon” (and I use that term loosely, because it’s whatever the producers say it is at the time the show is made, really), so for them to even say they want Pike – as good as Anson Mount’s portrayal has been – it would have to not be colored by nostalgia for ONE pilot and ONE episode cobbled together from said pilot because they were running short of material at the end of a season.

This isn’t to say that an Anson Mount / Ethan Peck Pike/Spock prequel series wouldn’t be awesome. If they made it, I’d watch it. But I’m not going to take my personal choices and try to project them out on to the universe by saying “You know, a lot of people are saying this Pike character is gonna have a great show. And Frederick Douglass, who people are going to hear about more and more…”

What maybe 50 out of 100 regular commenters on ONE website say they want does not at all represent any sort of statistical basis for making such a claim.

Correct. People who regularly comment at TrekMovie are actually a very small subset of readers. Thousands more simply read the article.

Tiger2

I’m not basing that on TM alone. Yes, its a small base of posters agreed. I know this because I recognize 90% of them on every page lol. So obviously I’m not talking about this board alone. I’m talking about every Trek board across the spectrum. And yes it still makes up a small amount of viewers, agreed. But the trend seems to stay the same no matter where you look and that is Pike overall seems to be a bigger runaway hit with the fans, at least more than S31 is.

And you know, I remember hearing this SAME argument over Discovery first season, that the complainers were just a loud vocal group and that Discovery first season was just fine. Most people didn’t have an issue with all the differences, the new Klingons were great changes, no one but nerds really cared about connecting everything to canon, the dark tone is just how sci fi is today and on and on and on. And yet, look how much season 2 changed because of those constant complaints online? So while I agree you can’t measure everything online, you would be a fool to totally ignore it as well. And as we seen, they didn’t ignore it either.

Fred Javelina

Well, that’s a huge leap. How can anyone gauge if changes in the show were due to, as we’ve both admitted, the preferences of a small minority of viewers (out of all people who view, the subset of people who read Trek fan sites, and out of them, the subset of people who care to write comments?)

The showrunners have said from the beginning that the arc of the show would take us from just before TOS to just into TOS. It would be inevitable that we would meet characters from TOS ‘before’ we ever saw them in TOS, like in the Kelvin timeline, not quite yet completely the characters we knew, but still in critical formative stages. That we would eventually meet up with canon.

Sure, they probably saw some of the complaints, and some were justified but ANY S1 of a show is a combination of a strong concept (whatever they pitched to the studio to get it made), a new writers’ room, actors getting to know their characters, the interplay yet to be established. I mean by comparison, S1 of Discovery was far, far better than S1 of TNG.

Most of the criticism I see of the character of Burnham is that she is “unlikeable,” but that mostly comes from men who don’t know what to do with a character who doesn’t neatly fit into heroic archetypes, who has flaws, who isn’t outwardly “pleasing” or deferential. For me, and lots of TV fans (not necessarily Trek fans) that’s what makes the show watchable.

I mean, there are die-hard Grey’s Anatomy fans out there and lots of the characters on that show are similarly ‘difficult’. Sandra Oh’s character, the pushy, brilliant surgeon who has zero people skills was very hard to like at first. And there are similar unbelievable situations (like them somehow ending up owning the hospital??) to fast-track promotions after ‘treasonous’ actions, etc.

Pike is a familiar cowboy straight-shooter central casting hero archetype (occasionally subverted in clever, subtle ways), and is easier for people to gravitate to, for sure. But he’s not there to save the show from Burnham but to provide contrast and counterpoint.

We’ve now had the examples of multiple leaders – the bad, the good, the cautious, the honor-driven, the amoral – for Michael to see. Each will leave an imprint on her. I think the end of S2 and through S3 we will see her break out of her own past, and become her own style of leader.

ML31

” I mean by comparison, S1 of Discovery was far, far better than S1 of TNG.”

I would not agree with that. Season 1 of TNG, as disjointed as it was, was still much better than what we got for S1 of Discovery. On many levels. Not the least of which, as disjointed a writers room that TNG had, it was pretty obvious they all knew what they were and what they wanted. That was pretty obviously not the case with Discovery. There are many other reasons as well.

My criticism with Burnham is not that she is “unlikable”. It’s that she is dull and uninteresting. The things that might have been somewhat intriguing about her were virtually ignored in the first season. Lorca was amazingly unlikable but before the idiotic reveal he was fascinating!

Tiger2

“Well, that’s a huge leap. How can anyone gauge if changes in the show were due to, as we’ve both admitted, the preferences of a small minority of viewers (out of all people who view, the subset of people who read Trek fan sites, and out of them, the subset of people who care to write comments?)”

Its not a huge leap. They have literally said they listen to online criticism and use it as feedback. Kurtzman said a few months ago that was partly why they gave the Klingons hair again, because of the online backlash over it. Bob Orci who also wrote the Kelvin films and a member of this board has said the same thing here. It doesn’t mean they change anything people hate of course but they consider it if they hear it enough. And as I said, its not the size, its the trend if the same arguments are noted everywhere.

And I don’t think a lot of people will suddenly stop watching because Pike is gone or anything. I think more like the show in general now to keep watching regardless but he was definitely a big factor with this season’s popularity vs last. Hopefully what they have planned for next season will be good enough for his and Spock’s absence.

Tiger2

Obviously I’m only discussing based on anecdotal evidence online (but not just this site alone), I don’t disagree with that. But I say this all the time, when it comes to things like this, if you can’t find an indicator anywhere online that bares out a different scenario I just don’t think its going to be that much of a difference off of it either, at least not today. Especially when the most hardcore fans are online.

But yes I don’t disagree with you it doesn’t mean everyone wants a Pike show and no one wants a Section 31 show. For the record, I’m personally happy with the S31 coming and has always said that. But I certainly feel like I’m in the minority lol.

And I also agree its probably just the most hardcore fans (which is who I’m talking about) that even WANTS a Pike show, which is EXACTLY why I been arguing people shouldn’t get their hopes up too much over having one, at least right away. I have said here (and you can certainly find the posts here as proof) I don’t think CBS or Kurtzaman sees Pike as that important to future Trek or he would at LEAST show up next season, right? I think its really from the hardcore fans who is responding to him so positively but overall it may not be anymore than that, so we agree. Or at least CBS doesn’t seem concerned about it. And why a spin off could be years away if it happens at all.

So don’t mistake what I’m saying here. I’m not saying ALL fans want a Pike show, but yes I AM saying BASED on the reaction to both Pike and Section 31 on Discovery its clear which has gotten the more positive response out of the two at least. Does it mean they should cancel the S31 show and make a Pike instead, no, but I can’t see how the show would garner less fanfare for a Pike show than the S31 show? So far they seem to have a very mixed response. Or maybe I’m wrong on that in their overall assessment. I hope so, but it certainly feels that way.

Fred Javelina

Well, from a franchise perspective – Pike was in an unaired pilot and a two-episode filler adaptation of said pilot. He isn’t referenced again until Star Trek (2009) and then killed off in ST:ID (2013) in the Kelvin timeline, and then brought in for S2 of DIS. Arguably, his time on Discovery is the longest we’ve ever gotten to know the character.

But he isn’t the lead of the series and outside core fans, is likely not among the top 5 names if you asked people to name characters from Star Trek.

This is not to say a Pike series wouldn’t work but it’d mean not taking for granted that anyone knows who he is or what his importance to the canon is.

Now, on the other hand, Michelle Yeoh is a *global* superstar. Outside the USA you have no idea. Over her lifetime career, her movies have made over one billion dollars at the box office (adjusted for inflation) and most of those movies didn’t even play in North America.

If I were CBSAA / Netflix and wanting to expand Star Trek’s global fanbase, a Section 31 series starring a very bankable, well-known international actress would be a no-brainer.

A34

Star Trek needs to tap into that China money.

Tiger2

I don’t disagree with most of that but Pike seems to be a much more popular character than Burnham, who has gotten mixed results since her debut and most would probably replace Pike for her if they had their way. I actually like Burnham but I do agree with people who think she’s a bit boring and bland. But I also liked her more than last season so hopefully she’ll grow on those people. It’s still early.

I don’t think Pike needs his own show or anything but it would’ve been nice to keep him on this one, even if just in a recurring role considering his popularity.

As for Michelle Yeoh, I don’t doubt her popularity obviously, that’s why she was hired in the first place. But many simply don’t like the role she is playing now that’s the issue, not the actress herself. And like S31 in general, people’s reaction to MU Georgiou has been mixed at best, but they are taking a gamble in time more will come around to both and maybe they will. We’ll see.

ML31

“(and I use that term loosely, because it’s whatever the producers say it is at the time the show is made, really”

That is actually not true. If producers of a show that is part of a franchise want to ignore what the other elements of the franchise did then their show cannot be considered a part of that franchise. It is a stand alone. Or, for lack of a better work, a reboot.

Fred Javelina

Well, in the sense that they’re not throwing out all canon, but you know, Klingons had smooth foreheads until they had ridged foreheads and they later found a way to explain that, but they didn’t even *address* the issue until Trials and Tribble-lations, and that was kind of an inside wink to fandom.

They didn’t *have* to do that – they could have left Worf out of that episode entirely (also, why didn’t the other Klingons recognize him as Klingon??) but it was essentially a fanservice episode for that reason.

So where past canon is fuzzy or contradicts other canon, the writers always have a choice – be slavishly bound to what some writer in 1965 did or re-interpret it to either update it to what we know now (scientifically, historically) or to serve the needs of the story. In that way they say yes, that is true, and *this* is also true, extending and deepening the lore.

But if we were to really nitpick the inconsistencies of a 50-year-old television and movie franchise, we could fill several books. :)

ML31

None of this really addresses my comment at all. If you want to be a part of a franchise, then follow the established rules. If you want to do your own thing, then reboot said franchise. This includes cherry picking what elements you want to keep and which you want to ignore. It’s really quite simple.

A34

No Rules…

A34

Does anyone know if Anson Mount would even do the show? He knew from the very start that he was only going to be in it for one season. Just like Jason Isaacs.

The Recursion King

Pretty sad, but understandable. Now spin off Pike and crew into their own series, do not waste this opportunity!

VOODOO

That’s terrible news. He’s the best thing about Discovery

Anthony

So, does anyone listen to Anson Mount’s podcast, The Well? I just binged a bunch of it on a road trip to Florida. He interviews actors and talks about what its like to be in the business. Did you know he’s buddies with Xibit? So random. Anyway, I’m getting off track.

He did a two part interview series with Ethan Peck, and they both hinted a bunch of times that they were not coming back after season 2. Ethan Peck said it was a wonderful experience and he doesn’t know what he’s going to do next with his life, and stuff like that. There was even audio of them wrapping up the last day of filming and they were saying good bye to the cast.
I think he dropped it there that Pike and Spock are not gonna be back in season 3.

Spiked Canon

interesting

Trek in a Cafe

The podcast is excellent.

Tiger2

It’s not a shock obviously. They did hint it a few months ago on Twitter which some people then suggested Discovery itself was being cancelled.

But I guess people thought with the popularity of the two maybe they would change course? Remember this was before Discovery got renewed so I think people were hoping with so much fanfare they got after the fact someone would change their mind. It’s TV, characters who were meant to actually die ended up staying on because how popular their characters became later. We know Pike and Spock will still be around canon wise obviously so if you don’t want them on the show full time and a Pike spin off show isn’t in the cards I don’t see how they couldn’t at least be recurring roles next season. That wouldn’t break canon at all.

Ixley

I’ve listened to a few episodes and it’s really great. I believe there’s going to be an upcoming podcast with Doug Jones as the interview subject. Woot!

Maybe my mind is hazy, but didn’t Rebecca Romijn show up for like a combined two minutes in two episodes of Discovery? No offense to her, but how is anyone going to miss someone who was hardly on the show to begin with?

Corinthian7

It’s the opportunity that will be missed…

Support Your Local Salt Vampire

The assumption is that she’ll show up for a more extended performance in the next few episodes, but if that brief appearance is all we see of her you make a very good point.

DIGINON

Maybe she will appear more in the final episodes of the season.

A34

Yeah I really don’t understand that.

Tiger2

She is suppose to come back. It was confirmed before the season started she would be in a few episodes, its clearly just going to be at the end of the season.

But to call her a main character is a stretch. Even if she was on every episode for the rest of the season it would be considered more of a guest star role. Currently its just a cameo at best.

But I don’t think they would make such a big deal of getting a well known actress to play an iconic role (for some anyway) just for a two minute cameo. There is probably a bigger role coming this season.

Mike Barnett

A couple days after “New Eden” was streamed, Anson Mount posted this on his Facebook page and not a peep about it since then:
“Today was one of the best days of my career. I’ll explain later. For now, I wish everyone a good night and a great weekend.”
Since then he has “Liked” a few posts on Twitter where people were talking up a Pike/Enterprise series (as recently as yesterday).
I might be reading too much into this but who knows? CBS would be nuts to walk away from some sort of Pike/#1/Spock project in the near future.

He tasks me and I shall have him

^^^^ THIS is the most compelling evidence of a spin-off I’ve seen so far. Good find!

DeanH

Hmmm, he is booked for STLV2019!

Locutus

You might be on to something! Fans want it, that’s for sure.

PEB

Wouldn’t be surprised if a Captain Pike series gets announced at Star Trek Las Vegas this year. The HUGE thing would be if they could do it without a select portion of fans losing their minds over the interior of the Enterprise. If they felt they could get away with it without causing a major meltdown, it would be a no-brainer.

Garth Lorca

Not surprising. He was only in for season two and his tenure is over. This show isn’t about the captain but about Burnham.

That said, I’m rather sure Season Three will see Captain T’Pol taking the center seat. Having a legend like her aboard will make Tilly go totally nuts :-) But it makes sense from Burnham POV and her ongoing journey. A female Vulcan legend would reflect her own journey in a multitude of ways… surrogate mother, historical idol, Vulcan-minded antithesis…
Plus, we’d finally get an alien Captain and a great link to ENT which has still some fans out there waiting for ENT Season 5… It would be refreshing to see a seasoned T’Pol without the early aughties forced sex appeal attached to her.

ML31

T’Pol would be about 170 years old. Unlikely she would still be active in Star Fleet at that advanced age. Spock supposedly lived for 162 years.

Tuvok was an older Vulcan in Starfleet.

He joined the service later in life.

With T’Pol, there would need to be a rationale for her serving at this point…

Maybe she would have retired, but have been called back into service during or after the war due to losses of ships and experienced officers.

I could definitely appreciate this…especially if the actor (Jolene Blalock) reprises her role. (No idea of the chance of that.)

ML31

According to Memory Alpha Tuvok was 107 at the beginning of the Voyager show. Still much younger than T’Pol would be for Discovery and for the age of Spock’s death.

Tiger2

Actually I would love the idea of T’Pol coming back but she probably would be a bit too old, at least to be a captain. As pointed out, Tuvok was older but he was considered middle age for a Vulcan. Once you hit 150 you are probably considered ‘up there’. ;)

The River Temarc

With T’Pol, there would need to be a rationale for her serving at this point

That’s easy. To provide a counterweight to the logic extremists (which, if Cornwell is to be believed, have infiltrated the admiralty).

JetpackJesus

Memory Alpha says that Vulcans have an average lifespan of 200 years. Sarek lived to be 203. So a 170 year-old Vulcan captain could potentially work.

ML31

Then at 162 Spock died very young. I thought his cause of death was just old age but if 200 is the average life span it is logical to think something usual happened to him.

Urbanspaceman

I mean, Spock was half human. It would make sense he wouldn’t have the life expectancy of a full Vulcan.

ML31

Good point. I did not consider that aspect.

Garth Lorca

Spock was only half-Vulcan. That explains his “early” death. Tuvok on the other hand was in Starfleet during TUC and still active on VOY, still looking rather young. T’Pol would be in her best age, with still up to 50 years ahead of her.

Tiger2

Tuvok was also black though, and you know what they say about blacks and aging. ;)

DeanH

I like the idea and a nice tie in to Enterprise. Although at 170 she might simply be too old to be Captain but you never say never. We shall see.

A34

I’m pretty sure the actress that played T’Pol isn’t coming back to Star Trek wearing old lady makeup.

Mark Lenard as Sarek at 202 looked mature, but not like an old man in 21st century human terms. Grey-white hair was the only concession.

Graceful ageing in Vulcans, with T’Pol played by Blalock who is now in her 40s, could work.

Tiger2

I think everyone remembers what an old T’pol looked like in the episode E2. I don’t remember how old she was suppose to be but she was definitely on the elderly side to say the least.

Of course that was also an alternate timeline and I imagine they would make her feel younger. But this is whats funny about message boards, someone threw out the suggestion and now we are all debating it like Blalock is negotiating her return to T’pol as we speak lol.

My guess is T’pol has about as much of a chance being on this show as Sisko does. At least full time. I’m still holding out for a cameo somewhere at least. T’pol is one of my favorite characters and seem to have turned into a fan favorite in the fanbase these days, this conversation being a good example of that.

A34

LOL so true.

ML31

A guest shot is probably the best we could hope for regarding T’Pol I think. No way she comes back to be Captain. I was just going along with the discussion.

Tiger2

I wasn’t talking about you in my remarks.

A guest shot is probably always in the cards to some degree, but I have no idea why Garth Lorca is treating her as the next possible captain as a foregone conclusion lol. Its bizarre. There has never even been a single discussion about T’pol from any of the writers that I know of, much less she’s going to suddenly show up a century later and become a permanent fixture next season. Its funny because I’m having a discussion about this with another poster in this thread about saying something directly without proof. But that was probably more a miscommunication issue on my part.

In this case though he’s saying he’s ‘sure’ based on literally nothing other than he just wants it to happen. That said I would be up for it, I would love to see an older T’pol fully part of Starfleet and still rocking it!

ACpilot

Yep, Anson Mount’s Pike character made Discovery worth watching. Definitely need to see him get his own series on the Enterprise along with Peck’s Spock and Number One.

Joe

You can add me to the number of people wanting a Pike, Number One, Spock spin off on the Enterprise

Kirk1701

Did it never occur to anyone that the reason Star Trek was as successful as it was in the 60s was due to the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic? We didn’t get a Pike/#1/Spock show because it wasn’t interesting enough (among other reasons, admittedly).

Don’t misunderstand: I’ve enjoyed seeing Pike this season, but the character’s just too similar to Kirk. A spinoff show would be fan service, nothing more. What would the main conflict be? If you can only come up with, “explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations” then you just described TOS. That’s Kirk’s territory. Why not just have an updated TOS series then?

Drew

Pike similar to Kirk? Uhh no NOT even close.

Zinc Saucier

Those are the same complaints people had about TNG when it started. Turned out fine there. They don’t need another a gimmick.

VZX

I forgot which podcast episode it was, but Jared went into a lengthy discussion of the types of dynamics that characters from stories have that lead to success: the trio like a Kirk/Spock/McCoy or the quad like the TMNT. The trio of the Id, Ego, Superego is represented in various stories like Harry/Ron/Hermione or Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman. The quad of the leader, fun-lover, techy, and emotional is like the four Ninja Turtles but also evident with Seinfeld characters and even the main four from TNG. Jared said the problem with Discovery is that they are all techies like Donatello, which made it boring. Pike and Spock bring some much needed dynamics, but since they’re leaving where does that leave the rest? Anyway, a Pike-Enterprise would fill the quad-character-dynamic.
Y’know, Jared could explain it better than me.

The River Temarc

Those are the same complaints people had about TNG when it started. Turned out fine there. They don’t need another a gimmick.

Exactly. These “gimmicks” (lost in the Delta Quadrant, temporal cold wars, spore drives) have not worked out so well. And where ENT and DISCO do work, it’s largely because the focus on “strange new worlds,” such as New Eden and the Obol for Charon sphere.

Only DS9’s premise lived up to the hype. And even there, I don’t know what we really needed five years of war stories.

A34

The show got cancelled in the 60’s

ML31

The only thing I can think of would be to explore why Spock was so fiercely loyal to Pike that he would defy orders to bring him back to Talos. To me, that felt like it had to be something huge. It’s similar to Kirk going back to Genesis but we saw their relationship over that time.

Tiger2

Kirk and Pike aren’t similar at all lol. They made that clear in the Kelvin films and now on DIS. Pike is a very Starfleet minded, by-the-book guy. Kirk isn’t. Pike is a very traditional Starfleet captain and Mount’s version feels closer to Picard than he does Kirk. Kirk is more of a hot head.

And the problem with doing a TOS show is that it would have to be a reboot and no one seems to want that for some reason. But how do you get away with showing that crew again if we ALREADY seen their adventures? At least the first 3 years of it. But if you consider TAS as canon then you seen most of it.

It’s exactly why I been saying DIS should’ve just been a reboot to the the Trek universe in general then you can do another TOS show. But as it is right now, it’s literally impossible without saying its a remake at least. But TOS is canon in this timeline, so yeah. At least with a Pike show you are wide open to do whatever you want with it.

Kirk1701

Kirk is NOT a hot head. The Kelvin films totally screwed that up. Kirk will throw a punch, but “in Lt. Kirk’s class you either think or sink.” Kirk is a brilliant tactician who beats Spock at 3D chess. He’s the only crew member who can. Consider that for a moment… It’s a mistake to think of Kirk as a dumb brawler. In fact, Picard had the chip on his shoulder when he was younger. He learned to rein himself in. Kirk learns that brains can be just as problematic when he has to kill Gary Mitchell with his bare hands. It was Spock who recommended this, remember. Gary was Kirk’s best friend. Next episode (or so) Uhura calls Kirk the closest thing to a friend Spock has. That’s an interesting transition to me. The Kelvin films were tremendously disappointing in this regard.

My point about the similarities between the two is in reference to Commodore Mendez’ characterization of the two in The Menagerie, “About your age. Big, handsome man, vital, active.” This is also a good descriptor of Kirk to a general audience. They’re both younger, handsome white men with commanding personalities.

Kirk is far more compelling due to his brilliance. Let’s not fall into the trap of caricature, like the Kelvin films.

I agree that in detail Pike and Kirk are quite different. I’m not certain Pike is particularly clever beyond a standard starfleet captain. We do know he’s very personable, from the reports of all the young women under his command. He’s most engaging and sensitive. “You treat everyone on board like a human being, except yourself.” And he wears himself out in the process.

If we wanted a more DS9-style human drama (I’m avoiding saying “soap opera”), then I think Pike would be a great central character. However, we wouldn’t be exploring or going boldly.

To me, the latter is missing. No tv show nowadays has managed to figure out what adventure looks like from our current perspective. Kirk and Spock have always been the “bold goers.” McCoy is essential here as well because he’s a pessimist (another thing the Kelvin films ignored). There’s a level of fool-hardiness about Kirk and Spock that must be tempered. Conflict is the soul of drama.

Kirk1701

If you wanted something topical, a friendship between three men might seem out of step. However, toxic masculinity is a major topic these days. What better way to explore male relationships than with the prototypical tv triumvirate? (If anyone like Alex Kurtzman or Heather Kadin is scanning these threads, I’m available for consult, lol!)

ML31

” Conflict is the soul of drama.”

For me at least, this is why TNG failed. Rodenberry imagined a Federation without conflict. The conflict had to come from without, not within.

Kirk1701

Precisely. It’s a human drama, even with “aliens” aboard Enterprise. True conflict isn’t a gimmick as some have suggested in this thread. Nor is it war or hand to hand combat. I would recommend anyone who think they know what narrative conflict actually is put their definition to the google test. They may be surprised by what they find.

I loved TNG as a kid, but looking back, it’s like a dentist’s office in space. There still is good narrative conflict between the varying members of the crew. Strengths and weaknesses and such.

Tiger2

I meant he was more of a hot head WHEN compared to Pike, that’s all. And I’m not talking about Kelvin Kirk, I’m talking Prime Kirk. Although I like both of them.

Corinthian7

You could do a second 5 year mission but why rush into something like that? In 5-10 years we will likely have had most of the TOS characters recast and the actors will maybe have aged enough to credibly cover that period but in the meantime they’ve got the best part of a decade before TOS to play with .

Kirk1701

My point wasn’t about prequels or sequels. It was the viability of a Pike/Enterprise series. I’m not convinced it would be particularly interesting as a piece of science fiction. It would be closer to social drama, given Pike’s character. Do we want another social drama or would we, as Trek fans, want to see some hard sci-fi? I’m with the latter. You pays your money, you takes your chances.

Yanks

Bummer. He could stay onboard for another year(s) and still be within cannon.

martin

Now eagerly awaiting the Pike series announcement. Given the end of Big Bang Theory and Criminal Minds, CBS should strongly consider making the Pike show a CBS network show.

Heisenberg's Hat

Mount’s performance as Pike has made this season feel more like Star Trek to me than the first season did. While less impressed by Peck, you can’t get more Star Trek than Spock. So where does Disco go in season 3 without them? Discovery has based two seasons off of easter eggs-look it’s the mirror universe, oh look it’s Mudd, oh look it’s Pike, Spock and Number One. Season 3 of TNG and DS9 was when those shows really established themselves. I enjoy Discovery but at this point I’m convinced all it’s going to be is a series of Easter eggs.

Tiger2

But maybe that’s what season 3 will be and that is for the show to establish itself on its own. Its clear the Pike/Spock thing was brought in because someone panicked people were saying Discovery isn’t ‘Star Trek’ enough and needed some street cred and this was a way to get more TOS fans on board. Maybe they feel they can go their own way now.

OR it could be the opposite and they are getting rid of them to bring on an ensign Kirk lol. With this show, you can can never tell where its going.

Vulcan Soul

Tiger, this is my impression as well. They fully regard the canon question as “fixed” now (especially with what is still coming this season) and think they can return to Discovery being Discovery next season. Of course if that means a return to season one grimdark and “One more twist” games needs to be seen.

Tiger2

Yes, if they do this then I’m OK with that. Many people like us complained bringing Pike and Spock this soon was a mistake because the show hasn’t had its own identity yet. And even though I like them both, I still feel that way in SOME respects but the characters obviously feel more developed now.

But maybe they are going the opposite way? Do the big fan service stuff this season, change Discovery in the process so it just feels a lot closer to traditional Star Trek. And next season the TOS tie ins are gone and maybe focus on whatever this season will on. Not all dropped completely but it won’t revolve around TOS characters and story lines like this season clearly has.

ML31

The fan service I would like to see is young Kirk. What did he do to earn the privilege of being named Captain of a Constitution Class starship? Spock, for me, has been done literally to death. There is little to nothing new that can be mined from that character. But I get it. Spock is the popular character and that is why Discovery set up the Burhnam relationship with him. Because of that character’s popularity. But if I, myself, had a choice between expanding backstory for Spock or Kirk, I would choose Kirk because less has been done with that.

Make no mistake… My preference is to just to do something completely new. This is just if they must mine TOS for story lines.

Tiger2

We do joke about seeing Kirk showing up next season but I think they are probably cautious about that because unlike Spock which they can use Burnham as an excuse to bring on Kirk would be 100% fan service and they know it. They may try but I don’t think it will be next season (but I been proven wrong sooooo many times before ;)).

I do agree with you about Spock and the reason why I eye rolled when I heard they were bringing him on. But I wasn’t surprised by it either, it was literally only a matter of time, I was just hoping it would be later and he popped up in an episode or two, not be the entire basis for the season.

BUT that said for the most part he’s been a success IMO. Still seems to be a debate over how emotional he is here but from what I can tell most fans don’t really seem to care that much about that because they recognize its a different Spock before we met him and Peck is really good.

I really thought there were going to be tons of nit picking complaints about him here like Kelvin Spock use to have, but there is hardly any to my surprise. I guess it proves he is doing a good job for most people and it would be crazy not to bring him back at least a few episodes next season.

ML31

But I think the fact that they made Michael Spock’s adoptive sister to be fan service at the highest level. There was no need for that whatsoever except to create a link from their show to a known character for the purpose of pleasing fans. In spite of what was said about never seeing adult Spock, I knew deep down that link was a safety net and we would see him the instant the show was in trouble. Turns out it was right away.

Tiger2

Well yeah obviously I agree with you. But you also defend it saying that Spock could’ve had a sister the entire time so you can argue it both ways. It was completely unnecessary but its also feasible so in their eyes, why not?

But once they made her his sibling it was going to happen, or else why even do it?

A34

Great news. Pike is kind of boring to me. Bring in Prime Lorca.

Captain Hackett

The bad news is Prime Lorca is already dead.

Not according to the novels, the only media so far to bring up the subject.

ML31

Not if they can bring him into the mycelial network! Death has no meaning there.

A34

I don’t think he’s dead. I bet he will find a way back to the prime universe. He’s Lorca after all.

A34

He’s ALIVE !!!

:)

SuperionMaximus

I am not going to try and predict the future. So I’ll just say that Anson Mount, did an absolutely outstanding job playing Christopher Pike in Season 2 of Star Trek Discovery so far. It’s hard to be the 4th actor to take on a role, and yet he manager to honor the work done by the actors who played Pike before him, and at the same time own the role and make it his own. Anson Mount’s portrayal of Christopher Pike is without a doubt up there with Sir Patrick Stewart’s Jean Luc Picard, William Shatner’s James T Kirk, Avery Brooks’ Benjamin Sisko, Kate Mulgrew’s Kathryn Janeway, or Scott Bakula’s Jonathan Archer. It’s Anson Mount’s performance that will be remembered most as the quintessential Captain Christopher Pike. If he really is one and done with Star Trek he sure gave the role a performance to be remembered. We the fans owe him thanks for that indeed. Let’s hope CBS recognizes that they struck gold with Anson Mount in that role and finds a way to tell more stories of his time on the Enterprise down the road.

FireDevlin

Agreed.

More Troubles More Dribbles

Hmm, sounds like Star Trek: The Christopher Pike Chronicles could become a reality after all…

Vulcan Soul

I will take that over “The Burnham Chronicles” and “Sarek Family Drama” any day, thanks!

Palizia

+1