In a new “Crew Call” podcast for Deadline Hollywood, the overseer of all things Star Trek on TV, Alex Kurtzman, gave updates on all of his currently announced projects.
Star Trek projects in the pipeline
Last year, CBS TV Studios president David Stapf made a mention of having “something on all the time on All Access.” Kurtzman spoke to that idea:
It takes really a year from writing to finished product, it’s sort of like animation, because you have to factor in about 7 months of CG work and then 4 months of prep, especially if you’re building sets for a new show.
It’s not like they’re all going to be on the air at one time. If David [Stapf] wants a show always [on], I have to plan two or three years out from now. The goal is not to have them on top of each other. Nor is it to rush anything out when it’s not ready.
Kurtzman on growing the fan base:
When I went to CBS and I said, “I think you have a universe here that is very under-utilized, and a fan base that I think is hungry for a lot more.” And I walked them through the plan of what I saw for the next five to ten years of Trek.
Part of it was, kind of, premised on the idea that it was going to take time. What I said was, “Don’t expect us to put the first thing out, and suddenly, you know, you’ll have 100 million new fans. That’s not gonna happen.” Trek has been around for too long for that to happen — but what we do have is new generations, and what I can tell you is that ‘Trek,’ in general, finds people when they’re about between nine and twelve.
It’s never reached younger than that — it’s never tried to, and to me that’s a hugely missed opportunity, especially because what you’re really trying to do is influence hearts and minds with really positive messages — messages about who we can be as a species and as people and what our future is. So why not start young, you know? And not for a cynical reason. Not because you know, “hey, lets sell more toys,” but because if you really want Star Trek to reach people, then you’ve got to start young.
And this is where I guess the Star Wars influence on me really mattered, because as a kid at four years old, I could imagine myself starting up with a twin suns of Tatooine and wondering what my life was. Trek didn’t give me that same thing — it gave me Wesley Crusher, it gave me different characters, but again, those are older characters.
But we are definitely seeing just metric proof that the fan base is growing, and it’s growing younger — and yet, we’re keeping our current fans, and that’s great.
Star Trek: Picard
While the show is named Star Trek: Picard, Kurtzman stressed that the idea of a family, of a ship’s crew, is still very much at the heart of the new show:
It’s something that has been baked into the DNA of Picard — yes, obviously Patrick, it’s Patrick’s show — we have an unbelievable cast. And you know, the thing that I loved about the Next Gen cast is that you really could have focused any episode on any of them.
I would say the same about our cast now, that it’s such an incredibly brilliant group of actors, [that] are given such amazing things to do. Without spoiling anything, I think that you will feel that.
“A really wonderful give-and-take” with Stewart
We spent a lot of time with Patrick, and you know he’s incredibly brilliant just as a human, and very warm, and obviously he knows Jean-Luc Picard better than anybody — and you know, he was really the one who from the outset said, “I don’t want to do this unless we’re breaking new ground. I don’t want to just play the character I played, why come back to that? We did that already.”
And so it’s been a really wonderful give-and-take in our collaboration with Patrick where he very quickly came to trust that we were both going to do exactly what he said in taking Picard to a new place, but also — and he doesn’t look at himself this way — we’re reverent of him, you know? He’s Patrick Stewart. When we’re in a room with him, his opinion really matters to us, and his happiness really matters to us, and ultimately, we couldn’t do this show the way we’re doing it if he wasn’t excited about it and excited to play it.
A story that honors the character
I think we’ve found a story that honors everything that people love about the character, but in ways that are not what you expect — and yet, become more and more familiar as the show goes [on].
A lot has happened to Jean-Luc Picard in the intervening years. There’s been a lot going on and he’s had to deal with some new things, he’s had to deal with some old things, and both of those things kind of come colliding together. He’s made choices that he’s not necessarily feeling great about — and yet I think the audience will understand exactly why he made them.
Discovery and its spin-offs
Discovery season 3
Writing on season three of Discovery is moving along at a fast pace:
We are on episode five of Season 3 of Discovery. We’re far along.
More Short Treks
As previously announced, there will be more Short Treks, two of which are cartoons, along with four live-action shorts.
We’re doing six more of them. Two of them are animated, and the two that we’re doing that are animated are unlike our two animated shows. What I love about the Short Treks is that to me they are an experimental training ground, and a place to experiment with different things. Directors who we’ve never worked with before, tones we’ve never tried before.
Michael Giacchino is doing one of the animated shorts and Olatunde Osunsanmi is doing another one in the animated shorts and he’s our main director on Discovery. And again, different animation styles, totally different tones. Aimed at kids, I would say, more than adults, those two.
Section 31 show
As previously stated, the intention is for the Section 31 show to go into production right after season 3 of Discovery. Kurtzman briefly touched on the idea, reiterating what had been said before:
Erika [Lippoldt] and Boey [Kim], who are two of our writers on Discovery, are breaking story on it right now, and the plan is to shoot that the second we’re done with [Discovery] Season 3.
Hears fans about Pike and crew
Anson Mount’s Captain Pike has been a huge success of season 2, with lots of fans asking for more of the Enterprise crew. Kurtzman acknowledged the outpouring of interest from the fans:
I would be remiss in saying you’re going to see Spock again on Discovery because we’ve obviously jumped so far into the future that it wouldn’t make sense…. but the the idea of bringing Ethan [Peck] back, and Anson [Mount] and Rebecca [Romijn] and the Enterprise, I mean, we loved it so much, that to find a way to do that is definitely something we’re thinking about a lot.
While discussing the animated shows, Kurtzman hinted that some members of the live action Trek cast may lend their voice to one or more of the animated shows. When asked about if any characters we know may appear in the shows, Kurtzman answered:
It’s mostly new [characters]. There may be some that you know, but it’s mostly new.
Lower Decks from Mike McMahan was announced in October 2018, and recently hit the milestone of having the first table read for a completed script. Kurtzman described the audience for the show and the general premise:
Both of these [upcoming animated] shows are a love letter to Star Trek. They’re targeted at very different groups. Mike’s show is really for kids, I would say, from 11 to 70. [Laughs]
What I love so much about the way Mike is doing is planning things. What would typically be the “A” story on any Star Trek episode is happening in the background — like huge, crazy, crazy shit is going on in the background and that’s super peripheral to the story that you’re actually focusing on. No show has ever really done that before.
Officially announced in April, the show is developed by Emmy Award-winning brother duo Kevin and Dan Hageman. Kurtzman gave an update on the progress of the child-focused ‘toon:
I won’t announce the name of the Nickelodeon show, but that’s a really different show [from Lower Decks].
That’s a show that’s for kids, younger. Full CG animation. It’s going to be incredibly cinematic. We just started seeing [story]boards this week. It looks like, wow. It’s on par with Love, Death, and Robots in terms of beauty and lighting and cinema, so it’s a a really different feel, and Nickelodeon has been wildly supportive and I think very excited to bring a new energy to TV, you know, in animation.
There’s lots more with Kurtzman about directing, his Trek fandom, his experience with Star Trek 2009, and more. It’s well worth a listen.
Keep up with all the news on the upcoming Star Trek TV shows here at TrekMovie.com.
This guy sure does talk a lot for someone who’s been fired….
I know because I saw it on YouTube.
It’s on the Internet. Must be true.
It’s like those people who still leave home every morning so that their loved ones don’t find out they’ve been fired.
That’s what makes Kurtzman’s cover perfect.
See, he’s been fired according to “sources,” but to cover that, he still goes to his old office, works with the same people, and does the same job he was doing before he was fired.
This way, his family is clueless.
He’s a genius, I tell you.
/s all over in both of my comments in case it was missed.
In the basement with his red stapler!
Hey! That was already shown on the Simpsons! ;-)
They’re being sarcastic, the angry dark places on the interwebs were back at the rumor mill again over the last week claiming Kurtzman had been fired.
No source, someone was speculating on a different thread that he’d been fired. That’s all…
Midnight’s Edge (Youtube Channel) posts all sorts of nonsense. Their latest bit was that Kurtzman had been fired.
Figured it was them. I’ve blocked YouTube from making any recommendations from that channel.
It takes a lot of dedication to go out and do press for a company that’s fired you…..
So even if he’s a hack (as some people claim) at least he’s a dedicated heck. Is that what you’re saying? ;-)
Diginon, a hack doesn’t come up with a new strategic vision to revive a television franchise to broaden its base and extend its value for future decades.
More he’s motivated and engaged a great deal of top-notch talent.
Yes, he’s taken risks – but he’s also demonstrated that he will course-correct and learn from failures.
We are still in the sarcastic thread making fun of the Kurtzman getting fired rumor.
I’m not actually suggesting he is a hack. I may not particularly care for some of the creative decisions made on Discovery but that doesn’t make him a hack. There’s certainly more to overseeing the revival and expansion of a long-running TV franchise than most people here understand (myself included).
I wonder what were those failures he supposedly learned from. Because DSC season 2 has mostly the same problems as DSC season 1 (like no actual sci-fi writers; too narrow scope; not enough story to tell), and it even adds some problem of its own (like wasting all the budget on CGI shuttlepods made of glass and then running out of money mid-season).
Repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results isn’t leadership, it’s the definition of insanity. ;)
As for strategic visions and reviving… remember, we’re talking about the guy who ruined Universal’s monster universe before it ever properly started. He had damn Tom Cruise, Russell Crowe and Sofia Boutella to work with, and he ran it into the ground. I don’t understand how he isn’t flipping burgers yet. He must have some extremely juicy kompromat on Hollywood bigwigs. ;)
We’re in sarcastic mode on this thread. Spoiler alert!!
Spoiler alert! Someone leaked some animation footage:https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18beia
I demand, DEMAND, to know why this isn’t being covered!! Kurtzman and Orci’s animated demo reel is news. I tell you!!!
He must have been working for free, money can’t buy that kinda loyality!
Some of those opinionated video channels are comical the way they make up negative rumours, claim they are from an “inside source” and then click bait their hater audience with a headline and question mark. And their followers eat that stuff up. I haven’t visited any of the those sites lately (too busy watching the Raptors) but I took a look this a.m. for a good laugh. Weird to paraphrase Lady Gaga, but she is spot on when she said social media really can be the “toilet bowl of the internet”.
ME and other “i hate STD” channels make a lot of money because they generate clicks. I don’t even go there because I don’t want them to profit off that silly divisive BS. I’m pretty sure the main reason they do it is to make money as a side hustle, not bc of any Great Love of Trek.
That Midnight’s Edge YouTube channel is like the National Enquirer for Trek news. They treat their own speculation as fact. It’s really astonishing. Maybe I’m naive, but I can’t understand how people could just make sh*t up and pass it off as journalism. I just checked it, and they’ve got a whole story up about how Kurtzman has been effectively fired as showrunner for Picard, sidelined to a lesser role while that other dude (can’t recall his name) show-runs it and bodily removed from CBS production offices or something. They coyly insinuate the last part by saying that Kurtzman was removed in the same fashion as Orci was removed by Paramount when they said no thank you to his offer to direct BEYOND.
HOWEVER — and this is the best part — Kurtzman will still be credited as Executive Producer for Picard, so there’s no evidence of his demotion. See how on the QT it all is?
Lol….I know right.
Those people just have agendas…and that’s to divide the fandom.
I don’t understand why. I don’t see how they benefit by trash-talking other fans essentially.
I think that Star Trek has needed to be a bit more diverse for quite a while and this sounds like a just might be a good thing.
I get so tired of people saying that people who like the new stuff aren’t true fans. I would never say that about anyone.
There’s different types of fans everywhere. I’ve seen people that actually go out in public in their Starfleet uniforms or Klingon makeup, yet they couldn’t even tell you the name of a single episode…or they hadn’t even seen all of them.
Does that mean they are less of a fan than me? How could I possibly even make that kind of judgement? First of all, I go to the grocery store in plain clothing, not Starfleet uniforms. That said, they are more of a fan of Trek in that regard. But still, I’ve seen all the shows, made articles on Memory-Alpha, wrote fan-fiction, been to conventions…I’d still say I’m a huge fan.
It’s nice when people like…I won’t mention names (Nerdrotic) get exposed as liars.
What you mean, “a little more diverse”? Star Trek *used* to be plenty diverse. Every episode was its own story. You had high-concept drama one week, an action adventure the next week, then a comedy, then a horror, then a morality tale. Every week was different, every character was unique.
On the other hand, Discovery has one story per season (with barely enough storyline for a Voyager two-parter), and mutually interchangeable characters we didn’t even know by name until season 2. :-/
And well, liars… he did explicitly say that he’s reporting on a *rumor*. So nobody was “exposed as a liar”, since he never said it as a fact.
Gary seems like an intelligent and thoughtful guy. He is smart enough to try not to slander or defame anyone from a legal standpoint, while still being able to click bait and pander to his audience of those who dislike Star Trek Discovery. Disliking Disco is fine, obviously the show is not for everyone. I occasionally visit the channel to get a good laugh and see if there is any change in opinion, but I always see videos that can be summed up as follows – Star Trek Discovery… Bad, Orville and TOS…. Good! I do see Youtube is trying to get rid of those who post ridiculously opinionated videos (flat earthers, moon landing conspiracy theorists, etc.) and I imagine posting veiled lies and false innuendo and rumours about people will also eventually be targeted for removal.
Equating those people who criticize Discovery to flat eathers, moon landing conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, and other such dangerous ilk makes you seem like an unreasonable fanatic.
It’s downright nutty to lump those who dislike your TV show into the same category as dangerous alt-right figures undermining society and demand they be silenced.
mutually interchangeable characters we didn’t even know by name until season 2. :-/
We knew Stamets, Culber, Ash, Michael, L’Rell, Tilly, Saru, Lorca, Sarek… how much should we know the bridge crew when they are simply consistent extras necessary for serialized storytelling? That’s like complaining we didn’t know Ayala on Voyager. That said, I’m glad we are getting to know them, but this idea that we had “interchangable characters we didn’t know” is stupid. They weren’t the main characters.
They’re just sowing hate and discontent, and seem to be trying to divide fandom, which was hateful enough already after the JJ films. Criminy.
“Those people just have agendas…and that’s to divide the fandom.” … nah. thats not therye agenda dude!
I do not think Kurtzman will be involved in Star Track(Trek) beyond S3 and while there is no official connection between Secret Hideout and Bad Robot, Bad Robot’s impending move to WarnerMedia is foretelling.
And I am ok with it. I’d rather not have old episodes of Star Trek (and The Orville) than Star Trek Discovery. I do not begrudge anyone that likes it, but I am done.
I will give Star Trek Picard a chance, but I don’t have high hopes of longevity for the Picard series.
Which of course explains why Kurtzman just inked a $25M deal with CBS today to lead the franchise for the foreseeable future.
Wasn’t that in 2018?
Maybe the check bounced, and Alex doesn’t check his statements all that often.
Is this an automaticly genereated post?
Where is the context. Except.. it wasnt… today!
@ jako: The Hollywood Reporter ran a story on June 19 about Kurtzman’s $25 million deal extension with CBS.
He may not be fired but Star Trek would be better off if he were.
But the point is that people just made up he got fired adnd a lot of people are just repeating it without any questioning.
Well… Not much new here. But at least it’s a new article. :)
Seems he has to do something once a month or the credulous and the YouTube trolls keeping looping in negativity.
Like I tried to say yesterday but post….disappeared. I read this earlier on another site…..guess I’m not supposed to say which one,lol…..but it was kinda weirdly written so it just took me totally outta the whole thing. Hopefully this is better written but I’m not reading it again just to find out. It all sounds pretty good though.
This is the first time I have posted here. Hoping that CBSAA is smart enough to do a Captain Pike series. While I am ok with the season arc style of newer shows, there is still room for a stand alone episode series with continuity across the season. This could be the showcase for classic sci-fi message stories. The environment, equality, criminal justice, etc.
Thanks for adding your voice to the many of us here who would love to see Pike’s Enterprise.
While most of us doubt that a completely episodic show would get a greenight for streaming (no matter how much many us would like that), we’re hoping that they could do something with lightly serialized arc built on episodes that could mainly stand on their own…more like the last seasons of Enterprise.
I’m Inclined to agree that we won’t see old school episodic Trek but I still think an Enterprise based show still needs an element of ‘planet of the week’. Maybe we could have episodic A story and serialised B.
It’s actually pretty easy. And its been done on other shows. Even Enterprise did it in the first half of season 3. There were essentially stand alone episodes that had elements in it to propel the season long story arc forward. The first time I saw season long story arcs was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. They were able to do that with stand alone episodes as well. I think for longer seasons you pretty much need to do something like that. But for shorter mini seasons like Discovery has, not sure there is time for such things.
Amen to “Pike Trek”. All appearance to the contrary, even I know a good thing when I see it.
I disagree. I think within a couple of years they will have five or size Trek shows running, and the diversity is bound to include at least one episodic show, and the Pike show would be the best fit for this.
I think Pike could work well for a miniseries, but I’m not sure that a show about the Enterprise exploring new planets every week would really cover ground that hasn’t been covered in TOS, TAS, TNG, and Enterprise.
Mount says he doesn’t want the 8 month filming commitment away from his family for a 10 episode season. I respect that.
I’d like to see Pike’s crew team up with what’s left of Archer’s for a 3 part miniseries or TV movie. Time travel. Okay. Counterclock Incident based story where Archer gets rejuvenated? Fine. The dead rise up? Maybe.
Just try to give us a better torch passing than Generations was. Some glory scenes of the two captains on each ship. An argument between them. A compelling enemy. A B-plot where T’Pol, Number One, and Spock work together.
I’ll throw in: John Slattery as Dr. Boyce.
Maybe a villain from the fringes of the lore. If the dead are rising (and that could be a non-time travel hook for Archer and co.) then maybe someone like Colonel Green — or Garth of Izar at the moment he snapped. Izar’s powers are something that could be spun into the Mycelial network but in a “reversing death” kind of way rather than travel. The ability to undo entropy and decay because everything that ever was connected still is through the network.
By coming to grips with the idea that death and decay drive progress, Pike finds peace in meeting his fate several years away.
Without time travel or something, T’Pol and maybe Phlox are the only Enterprise characters who can really show up in the TOS era. Some of the humans might be alive, but they would be too old to do anything more exciting than McCoy’s cameo in TNG. It would be cool to see the Enterprise characters again in some way though.
If they REALLY wanted to do it (and why would they), any character from the past could show up at nearly any point in the future if they had been in a ship with a sub-warp-capable ship, shuttle, escape pod, or space-worthy refrigerator with life support ans impulse engines with a malfunction kicking its throttle up to, say, 99.5% of the speed of light. Time would pass, but time dilation would slow to a crawl within.
It’s similar to TNG’s RELICS, with a different maguffin.
Given that A BIG chunk of ENTERPRISE was set in a Temporal War, wouldn’t it be actually harder to NOT run into ENTERPRISE characters in other times?
Enterprise wasn’t an active participant in the Temporal Cold War. They just interacted with combatants who were visiting the 22nd century. The only times any of the Enterprise crew time travelled as part of the Cold War was when Archer briefly visited an alternate 31st century, and when the ship visited an alternate World War II.
Wasn’t an active participant?!!!
Every time they they time travelled to counter the (Silly)ban cabal they were participating under the watchful eyes of Daniels whether he moved them perdonally through time or not.
For example, I definitely consider the future Enterprise helmed by their kids giving them spare parts from the future part of that war.
It would be really great.
The way around that is to give Mount what they gave Stewart. Tell them they will shoot it in LA. (Assuming that area is his home) I tell you the potential for a Pike show is the first time I’ve been truly excited for Trek since the announcement of the reboot in ’09.
Referring to where various talent reside in the U.S. or elsewhere, didn’t Anson Mount state something about a home he and his wife were buying somewhere in upper New York – or was that someone else? Either way, if the Studio decides they want to pursue a series or a set of “TV Movies” or some other arc for a show about Pike on the Big E before Kirk comes into the picture, they will simply set up meetings with producers such as Kurtzman and/or others within their scope of pitching show ideas and/or pre-production – and those meetings will not likely be publicized at first. Then if the TALENT decides any offers for such a show are OK with them, it may move forward. We know that Mount stated there would need to be “creative discussions” if such a show were to move forward, although the levels to which he refers regarding a Pike series [pre-production or character development?] are known only to him at this point. Kurtzman and his staff went out of their way with Patrick Stewart for that new series, so it’s possible they would do the same for Mount after the tremendous success of DIS Season Two. But at least we know the cast is open to talks, and would not mind doing more as their characters – and that’s a major positive point. I myself would fall over from my chair if one day I sat down to check TREKMOVIE.COM and read this was happening – tears of joy would fill my eyes, and I’d likely SHOUT OUT LOUD ” Y E S ! ! ! ! ! ” to Creation if that happened. And would I watch CBS All Access to see it? Duh: that’s a given. Here’s hoping it happens – when the timing is right, and everyone is on board (and not just on board the Big E, LOL).
You know, there is a rather big standing set of the NCC-1701 in upstate New York…
Mount’s current home is in Brooklyn.
I don’t get that he’s opposed to spending a long time in Canada in principle. He spent a very long time in Calgary and environs for Hell on Wheels.
But, his wife is a photographer who relocated with him to the New York area. He met her in Calgary and they’ve only recently married so she may need to stay in the US for green card / permanent residency or other immigration/citizenship reasons or something like.
As well, Mount has said at a couple of cons that he prefers outdoor location shooting to the intensely blocked studio shooting of science fiction. He’s quoted as saying that location shooting involves a certain amount of chaos that he views is necessary for art…
So, that might be a factor too. Creative conversations indeed…
Plenty of movie studios in Queens, another borough of NYC.
But I don’t think there are a lot of outdoor locations available close to the city, LOL.
Maybe the show will be in development long enough that his wife will have her green card by the time it would start up in Toronto. Plenty of nice outdoor locations there.
Stewart wasn’t signing up for any 8-month commitment for doing 10-episode seasons either. At 7 weeks in, they have completed at least 4, probably 5 episodes now. So if a Pike series was 10-episodes, and 3-4 months of filming, I bet he’d be on board for that.
Further, Discovery needed reshoots and additional footage which drew that out. A Pike series which is more traditional TOS type stories, especially if it is more episodic instead of serial, wouldn’t likely have the issues. Further if your reshoots for an episode were confined to elements of that episode, then that shortens it.
Also a Pike series doesn’t need to be the sfx extravaganza that Discovery is. New Eden was the perfect example of that – the A-storyline on the planet was one of the strongest stories of the season. I would bet they could do a Pike show at half or less of the cost of Discovery per episode.
With CBS ready to make an offer to buy Viacom (or merge) I have to wonder if the Pike’s Enterprise project won’t end up on the big screen to start a new film series. With the huge amount of people clamoring for more Pike it would make sense for the studios to try it. Personally, I would love to see it play out episodically on the small screen where it would have time to tell a proper story.
I’d rather see it play out on a small screen but build to a movie that incorporates some of the cast and charts Kirk taking command of the Enterprise.
Oh, I’d take a Pike film.
Well I’m a huge fan of Mount as Pike so I’d rather that be a TV show but theirs a finite amount of time to explore between Discovery and TOS hence why I think it could lead into a TOS first adventure movie. No reason why Pike can’t turn up in that I suppose.
I still say Pike TV movies will probably be the best way to go if they feel they can’t squeeze out another show in the next 2-3 years. My guess is if Paramount ever does get another film out they want something with their own cast.
I do think a Pike series is stronger concept than a Section 31 show, although Michelle Yeoh’s mirror Georgiou would be a fascinating anti-hero to follos.
I like where Discovery has been, and where it going without reservation.
Does anyone else out there think a Department of Temporal Investigations mini-series would be fun? I thought the books worked well.
Chuck, there’s a lot in the books that I’d like to see on screen.
Bureau oF Temporal Investigations and StarFleet Core oF Engineers have both done well as episodic séries in Trek-lit.
The Corps of Engineers would be another FINE choice! Of course, I’d support just about anything that would put Montgomery Scott back into play!
When talking about streaming services, a ‘huge number of people’ is a relative term. If, and when Trek returns to the big screen, hopefully they won’t be revisiting the TOS era for a third time. They really need to stick something out there the audience HASN’T seen before.
Agreed. If they really are not doing another Kelvin movie, then come up with something different and original with actual new characters and settings. I don’t think we need another Kirk and Spock film, it will feel pretty ‘been there, done that’ and too soon from the Kelvin cast unless they push it off another 5 years.
Every Star Trek film to date (maybe except No. IV, which only appears at the very end*) has been based around the Enterprise crew so it could be way to continue that motif.
Personally I would be interested in TPTB being brave and doing something a bit different going forward rather than just doing a space adventure with the Enterprise again. The last several films have sometimes been fun but always felt more of what we’ve seen before but with a different spin (same wood, different color).
They did almost do something completely different for the films when Rick Berman tried to get a movie trilogy based around the Romulan War. It sounded nothing like the Star Trek we knew since it was going to mostly be about a group of non-Starfleet characters taking a random ship behind enemy territory. I really thought that would’ve been interesting but it may have been TOO different for both hardcore and casual fans and maybe even felt a bit too close to Star Wars.
And it ended up being rejected for the Kelvin movies which got back to the very heart of what people think of Star Trek with Kirk and the Enterprise again. Box office and marketing wise that was definitely the way to go at the time. But Beyond also proved just having familiar characters isn’t going to just be a huge BO hit. The first film did well mostly because it felt fresh from what we were getting from Star Trek at the time, a huge budget, hot director and the curiosity factor. Now they are afraid another one will bomb. They are in a pickle I guess.
Whenever I hear “love letter to the fans” it reminds me of how Berman described the last episode of Enterprise. That’s not a good thing. It’s like the producers are not fans of the thing they’re making and wanted to throw something for the fanatics just to shut them up. “Here ya go, you nerds.”
I’m sure he doesn’t use that term to compare his efforts to “These Are the Voyages…”
Perhaps not. But I wish he would stop using the phrase. A lot of fans link it to the failure of These are the Voyages.
Pretty sure “All Good Things…” was described as a love letter to the fans as well, and it shows. But you’re right that TATV was quite unlike what we were hoping for.
Not saying it hasn’t but I personally never heard All Good Things described as a love letter to the fans. If so, however, that is just more fuel to the fire to not use it. AGT was at best a pedestrian regular episode.
I actually liked that episode except I wish riker was captain of the Titan during it instead of looking way too old for TNG
Actually I loved These Are The Voyages for what it was – a farewell to 18 years of “next generation” Star Trek, not Star Trek: Enterprise. Terra Prime was the finale to Enterprise. I was very moved by all the lines throughout that episode nodding to the past, present, and even someday a future Star Trek series. It was devastating, as Trip said I never thought it would end, but the franchise had burned out for a few years and lost its fan base… and sadly the plug was pulled right in the very season where fresh blood had come in and reignited the series. It took a long time, but here we are – Discovery has been quite a mishoot, but it inadvertently created the most killer idea since TNG – Pike, Spock, Number 1, that Enterprise bridge, and that new Enterprise herself… sad that for now they are instead going full steam ahead with Section 31, the first Trek I have zero interest in sadly :(
The finale to Star Trek: Enterprise should have surrounded the founding of the Federation. “Terra Prime” was not a series finale, it was just a decent episode. “These Are The Voyages” was an insult to Enterprise fans, those few of us who stuck with it to the end.
Enterprise was never going to get up to the founding of the Federation. Even if the show had lasted a full seven years, it would have ended in 2158, three years before the Federation. Terra Prime was a perfect finale. It had a villain who was the antithesis of every thing that Star Trek stands for, and it ended with Earth and the other planets well on the path to forming the Federation.
It’s television so they could’ve easily done whatever they wanted. Time in universe doesn’t have to progress on pace with time in the real world, even though Trek tended to follow that convention from TNG on. In fact, in “The Expanse” alone they cover like three months of time or more. I would’ve wanted to see Romulan War as an arc and Federation founding as the finale, that would’ve been a proper ending.
In hindsight this would have been THE perfect approach for Enterprise – each season advancing to different eras in the early years of Starfleet, we could have covered some serious ground! Sadly you are right – “next generation” era Trek followed 18 years in realtime.
I’m forced to agree. These are the Voyages failed on so very many levels. Not the least of which it totally felt like a weak TNG episode rather than an Enterprise episode. It was a bit of an insult to Enterprise cast and crew.
A really sad way for the franchise to putter out :( I feel like our franchise stumbles more than almost any other in terms of its success rate. Finales that feel incomplete, like VOY and ENT, entire seasons of schlock like TOS S3 and TNG S1 and arguably many other seasons, and epic fan moments like Generations failing and Nemesis ending the way it did and even Disco now, ugh I’m getting frustrated lol
Don’t worry about the way Discovery finished season 2, I fixed it – https://youtu.be/b19ryi7fRUE
Tillsy, you did a nice job on editing, but I’m sad you dislike the Discovery that much that you’d blow her up.
Thanks Marja. It came about from my excitement that S2 might have ended with Discovery gone and S3 now having the combined crew onboard the Enterprise (ala Voyager) – so I decided to create that episode myself. I do enjoy Discovery though – including the much-disliked aspect that it is told from Burnham’s perspective rather than the Captain (it works really well). I even totally accept all the updating (and adore the new Enterprise design, sets, uniforms, etc)… albeit Discovery did take things too far with the holograms, site to site transporter technology (that’s a TNG innovation), etc. I’m actually looking forward to seeing how Discovery compares amongst what is either a mindboggling amazing 32nd century, or by the sounds of it a decimated 32nd century (which could mean the Discovery remains the advanced impressive beast she was intended to me). Also hoping Saru stays as Captain – we don’t need to promote Burnham (which is obviously the goal) until very late in Discovery’s run otherwise it will drastically change the perspective of the series.
I just rewatched Endgame last night for the first time since it aired. My last impression still remains. That episode was in desperate need of an epilogue. But yeah, in general Trek finales have not been stellar. TOS never had one but S3 was more bad than good. TNG’s finale I wouldn’t even classify as a finale. It was just a mediocre regular episode. We all know the problems of These are the Voyages. But DS9 had a good finale and the two movie franchises did wrap up well for both with TUC and Nemesis.
TNG’s finale I wouldn’t even classify as a finale.
You’re kidding, right? Please tell me you’re kidding.
Why would I be kidding? Did it wrap anything up? Did any character move on from anything? Was there any culmination from the events of the series for ANYONE? No. It was just another day at the office for all of them except their next adventure was on the big screen. I heard they started shooting Generation nearly the very next day.
I thought Picard finally getting into the card game was a culmination for him, at least?
Been wondering if Kurtzman will open PICARD with cards being dealt?
If Picard joining their card came was the culmination of their 7 year TV journey then the writers really needed to raise the bar. But then, this is the same group who felt that a muddy fight between two aged brothers was a great “character” moment. So I was probably expecting too much. The fact is, DS9 and Voyager had vastly superior finales to TNG’s. If you count Terra Prime as the actual Enterprise finale instead of These are the Voyages, even THAT was much better.
Also, I meant Endgame the Voyager finale. Not the Avengers movie.
Well, we had been discussing Strange’s plan guiding them. It will be interesting seeing if the added footage contributes anything to resolving which plan they were doing.
Missed it by that “” much! Get ready to see it, again. Disney just announced, in an effort to get it past AVATAR’S theater take, they will shortly release a looonger cut of Endgame to theaters with neverbefore seen scenes.
Haven’t seen it but isn’t the “normal” version already 5 hours long? ;-)
I tend to agree about Section 31. The stuff the injected into Discovery was mostly bland and annoying. I’m not really interested in a dedicated TV show about it.
I don’t think anyone much is. If they read the room, they will see there is a high demand for a Pike/Spock series,and they will substitute that for the Section 31 series.
A Pike show would be boring
I get the feeling that Kurtzman loves the Section 31 concept more than any potential viewer does.
And I think that’s part of the point — he’s trying to think *outside* of the existing fan base. This kind of show may appeal to a younger audience more interested in this content. Basically Kurtzman is trying to create a menu of Star Trek to cater to all tastes. I think it’s a smart move, because if it works, it will bring people into Trek who otherwise wouldn’t be. So it’s not contingent upon him to get the fans’ approval for such a show; all he needs to do is find an audience. If he’s successful, it will be good for the franchise.
I worry about this attempt to attract non-Trek fans. That was the motivation behind Insurrection, JJ Trek, and some aspects of Enterprise (including the fact the first few seasons didn’t even have “Star Trek” in the title)… and those all had mixed results :( Stargate did the same – like Enterprise, Atlantis was in its most innovative and exciting season and that’s when they ended it… though not because of ratings, but because TPTB decided they needed the franchise to have fresh blood and launched a totally different kind of Stargate (Universe) that tanked badly and killed the franchise.
I get and applaud the idea of different genres. There are concepts being discussed that I am not a particular fan of but understand the concept behind them. That doesn’t change the fact that given the breakout character they just introduced (Christopher Pike) they ought to be at least considering ways to make it work and see if it can’t be added to the upcoming slate. It still fits the profile of a different thing. The Pike show could be the episodic planet jumping kind of trek in the bunch, for example. All the others will be season long arcs and deal with spycraft or the Beta Quadrant or be a comedy or be about teenagers and what not. But the way he seems to just wave off the Pike thing is a bit troubling to me.
Perhaps he will. I think we’d all be well advised to be patient, this stuff takes time. Based on fan reaction, I doubt they’d pass up the opportunity.
I also think it’s just probably not as easy as you might think. Anson Mount may be like booked with other work for some time, making it totally impractical. Same with any of the other actors on the Enterprise. It’s clear they weren’t planning on continuing with their story, so continuing it based on fan reaction is likely pretty difficult
I love Section 31.
I think it’s just more proof that pleasing fans is a fool’s game. If you try, you fail. I’d argue that TWOK had no fanservice — it had references for world building, bit there were no showy, “here you go, guys! You’ll recognize this” moments.
Which is so ironic for all the fanservice it has generated in the forms of homages [Nemesis] or straight up ripoffs [*cough* STID]. At least it was a new thing, and a bold one at that.
You’re 100% right. The fans have no idea what they want. If you want to kill a franchise just listen to the fans. That’s the fastest way to kill it.
Exactly. I won’t say that fans “don’t know what they want.” Many seem to want a re-hash of comfortingly familiar elements.
I liked Discovery S1 because the captain was different from other captains. He was a pretty top-down guy and similar to some real-world contemporary models. He was the Jellico, if you will, to Picard. Alas, they went astray into the Mirror Universe and killed him off. I thought the gradual acclimation of Discovery’s captain and crew to each other would have been much more interesting. Oh, well.
And most people really seem to like Captain Lorca as he was. He seem like he was the biggest hit of season 1 by far BECAUSE he was so different. But yeah, many seem like they objected to the fact (at least here and Reddit) he went from a complex flawed character to a mustache twirling villain once it was discovered he came from the mirror universe. I think if they kept him as a complex guy who was going through real PTSD they wouldn’t have soured on him.
And for the record I still no issue he came from the mirror universe. I was completely fine with that reveal, but I understood why it bothered others. Now that Discovery will be in the 32nd century probably through the end of its run, we’ll never see prime Lorca but it would’ve been interesting to see how different he was from his MU counterpart.
Oh my gosh Jellico is who I compared Lorca to as well! I really enjoyed Lorca being so militaristic and pushing the boundaries of Starfleet’s morals – and his mysterious ulterior motives (sometimes just a look on his face, the way he spoke, etc). Being from the mirror universe was great, but also disappointing in that we then lost him. Then again I’ve been looking forwarding to meeting Prime Lorca one day, but now that we’ve changed course (time jump) that is obviously now off the agenda. Likewise it was a shame when TNG ended as there were plans pencilled for Jellico to make another appearance in season 8.
There is a line in one of the episodes where Lorca told someone to ‘get it done’ and the FIRST thing I thought of was Jellico lol. That guy was a ball breaker but fun to watch!
Had no clue they thought about bringing him back. He could’ve showed up on DS9 as well.
I’ll take Lorca over Picard anyday.
One observation on the TATV holographic episode, according to the ENT books. It did not happen as it was shown, therefore what you saw can not be accounted as real or history.
THERE you are!!!
Thanks folks! Glad to have you back!
Looks like he’s been kicked upstairs. Glad to hear they haven’t completely thrown the baby out with the bathwater. He was NOT a good match for writing, show-running, and day to day ops. An overseer role will be a better match to his skill-set, opening key spots for much needed new blood into the franchise. This way, he can move up to help fill the JJ vacuum, and all parties can save face.
Can’t wait to hear these new voices. Nice to hear you’re after a dark week.
Not sure what you’re thinking there Chuck. Nothing about Kurtzman’s role has changed. He’s been the overseer of the Trek on TV franchise since day 1. It was solidified when his production company’s deal with CBS was expanded to 5 years last year. Nothing has changed since.
He’s still co-showrunning Discovery season 3, and giving input on every other project as well.
Also you seem to be confusing CBS with Paramount? You mention JJ, but of course that’s the movie franchise. Currently CBS and Viacom are still separate companies.
The big picture is the CBS Parsmount merger. If it goes through, the TV and Movies will eventually be under one roof, with Kurtzman the most likely head of all things Trek. We’ll get the kind of synergy TNG and DS9 had with The Undiscovered Country, Genertions, and First Contact.
Gotta figure out some way to take a victory lap, I see.
Not that it matters, but Kurtzman doesn’t work for JJ anymore.
Nope. But he could be the man to replace him.
Not bad for someone who got fired from his old job, and left flaming wreckage in his wake. Sure, why not?
Chuck, Kurtzman hasn’t been kicked anywhere. Despite the hopes and prayers of a YouTube channel which reports on hopes and prayers as fact, Kurtzman isn’t going anywhere. His role has been expanded to ensure that that all things Star Trek are guided by a hand who can keep the entire franchise on track.
He’s falling up. Check the new producer hires on IMDB. He’s less hands-on, and more present for conceptual development and the overall big picture, which he is unquestionably good at.
Chuck, Kurtzman wasn’t supposed to be the showrunner of either Discovery or Picard.
He only stepped in on Discovery after the second showrunners were fired.
Basically, he’s been doing his job as the senior executive producer in stabilizing the organization: short term turnaround-and-workout for Discovery, followed by longer term hiring of showrunners for the various series.
Really, this is all on plan, not anything unexpected.
If you say so. I still think he’s going to be promoted to King of All Trek after the Merger.
TG47 is correct. Chuck, he is already king of all trek at CBS which is almost everything (and is everything that is currently being produced) – it will be 100% of everything after the merger as you say though.
That actually is a bit of a question mark. A combined CBS and Viacom would likely see Viacom’s Robert Bakish running the combined company which means who stays and who goes and how the two companies are structured would be entirely at his discretion (I would expect far more exposure for Paramount as a brand).
And that’s exactly how it’s supposed to work. It’s not failing up. They’re putting their complete faith in the guy at the top to keep it the machine going. Dick Wolf for the Chicago franchise on NBC, Greg Berlanti and the Arrowverse on the CW, Scott Gimple on The Walking Dead. Rick Berman going all the way back to the Next Generation era.
Chuck, did you read a different article than everyone else?
I kind of see Hollywood as a bunch of old Stalinist Soviet-bloc bureaucracies. All of their department heads are fumbling through their jobs, refusing to admit to failure for fear of being sent away to some gulag in Siberia (like, say, RFD-TV) , and pushing positive propaganda to stay in power.
Like the USSR, they are all afraid of losing everything and being overrun by the invading forces of the West (Disney).
That’s silly, of course, but any news they send out directly is spun in the most positive way possible.
I would actually say in this analogy ‘The West’ is Netflix.
That works too! :)
I was really glad to see that Kurtzman is totally aware that the middle-grade 9-12 year old market has been the long term entry point for Trek.
I still don’t see any of the new offerings really targeting that age group though if he’s hoping the Nickelodeon show will reach primary graders or kindergartners.
But as others have noted, there aren’t many producers out there that really get the kids market. The strategy is sound, and if Trek reaches into new ground, so much the better. It’s ambitious and Kurtzman gets a lot of goodwill from me for trying.
I’m still concerned that the animated offerings are all led by men, but I’m really glad to hear Kurtzman saying (as he did in the podcast) that they need to try a number of different animation approaches to see what ‘feels like Trek’.
Basically, animated and kids shows shouldn’t be held to a lower standard of diversity than adult live action – either in the characters or the production side.
I’d also like to throw it out there again, in case anyone at Secret Hideout is reading, that they would do very well to look to the success of values-based and STEM live action kids shows that actually have children and adolescents playing the main characters. Kids like watching real kids, not adults pretending to be teens.
Toronto is ground zero for great and diverse live action kids shows such as Degrassi, Annedroids, Odd Squad and others.
And a lot of Canadian animated kids series are voiced by kids.
Star Trek would do well to collaborate with some of the Toronto kids show expertise to attempt something new. And if it’s educational they may get more than tax credits, but buy-in from a public broadcaster.
I used to book programming for a 1300 seat venue, and shows for young audiences. One of the shows I could never get approved was the Star Trek Science Explorers STEM show. Great idea, but my colleagues, who were pop-culturally clueless, didn’t think people knew about Star Trek. They were bright brilliant people, but their minds were locked only in their own individual fiefdoms, which were classical and jazz music, musical theater, and modern dance/ballet. This was @ a year before ST (2009). They couldn’t get that even if something wasn’t trending at the moment, it would be 15 months later.
I dunno. Midnight’s Edge said CBS fired him and if there’s one thing I can always count on is Midnight’s Edge delivering accurate information paired with insightful analysis of all things Star Trek. Oh, and Star Wars, too. I mean, heck, they get it right EVERY time.
I’m not sure whether ME even intend to be taken seriously.
They know that sensationalism sells. The British Tabloids are exactly like and regularly report false stories, fake news.
I was about four when the original Star Trek grabbed me, so I guess I’m outside of the Kurtzman stereotype!!
I think I was about thirteen, so I just missed his age window,
Not just you. I was thirteen when I got hooked and I cannot even imagine starting earlier. When I started watching TOS, the more spooky stuff like the Salt Vampire or those hundreds of greenish faces behind the window freaked the hell out of me. That was back in the early 90s.
Today, it’s certainly different. If kids start watching Pirates of the Caribbean at 6 or 8, there’s not much to freak them out at the age of 12.
@Dom Same. 4 or 5. And Star Wars didn’t come out until I was 7, so I don’t know if I would have been into SW when I was younger.
I wonder if its a generational thing. I was a kid in the 90s and 00s, so there were a lot of choices to watch on TV. I would imagine that people who were kids badk in the 60s and 70s had fewer choices, so were more likely to latch on to shows like Trek.
I don’t think parents were as concerned about age-appropriate content in the 60s.
If it was before my bedtime, I could watch it. My sense was that folks thought that the regulators would take care of it.
And then American national news coverage of the Vietnam war came on at suppertime. Suddenly, my parents and others started paying attention to what I was seeing, and didn’t let me see the news.
That said, even if I watched Trek as a kindergartener – the Horta left a big impression – it was TAS and later the afterschool reruns at around 12-13 that made me a lifelong fan.
I think the 9-12 age entry point really established itself with syndication starting in the 70s. Star Trek running after school and weekends on UHF was much more engaging than reruns of Gilligans Island and other sitcoms.
In Canada, the pattern continues. Our middle-graders have access to all 5 Trek series running 5 hours a day weekdays on Space.ca.
They’ve worked through the Disney sitcoms, Degrassi reruns, and catch a few of the cartoons on other cable channels. One of them follows the Star Wars animated shows, but won’t watch an episode twice.
Trek is however what they come back to and watch again and again. It’s got high rewatchability which is exceptional.
Trek seems to have virtually no competition for that age group in its niche. Annedroids was an exception. Sinking Ship Entertainment has a new show in production called Endlings (about kids in the near future bringing back extinct species), but our kids may age out by the time it’s aired.
It kind of depends who your parents were and where you lived. We moved to the deep south when I was 11 for a couple of years, and a lot of Christian’s then (1972-73) and there (Alabama, Georga, and Florida) balked at some of the episodes that seemed ro them to be somewhat occult in theme. Some also felt the idea that man could solve it’s own problems flew in the face of the belief in Man’s innately sinful nature, and its need for God to solve them by providing a swift and immediate Armageddon. They believed man’s fate was, not in the heavens, but in Heaven. They found the idea of man still being okay three centuries later, with no Jesus-Jihad to be seen, VERY threatening. My family bought it so I became a covert Trekker, at least till we moved back to California, where Christianity was a little more balanced.
You are right. There were all kinds of crazy SF shows alright, but none of them were as well though out, well produced, challenging, or as memorable.
Yup. Me too. You were a prodigy! I was an old man of six!
I was 6 or 7 when Trek grabbed me. Still recall being excited when the animated series showed up Saturday mornings! I guess there are a lot of anomalies regarding Kurtzman’s age stereotype.
I think he’s generalizing, and it’s probably true that in general the age people get into Trek skews older. But honestly, I’m so excited to see what a “youth-targeted” Trek would look like, precisely because I’m wondering what 6 year old me would’ve thought about it
I still get a kick out of TAS. I remember the excitement of having brand new episodes, and on Saturday mornings, when my sister and I could watch in peace.
Yeah I was only 3 years old and I still remember that day when I saw it and was like WOW. THIS. I love this. So I guess I definitely am not Kurtzman’s typical Trek fan
Go for the Pike-Spock series !
A series featuring a captain who is a believer, a Christian and who is the complete opposite of Trump supporters (radical and hateful Christians) would be a great idea!
I hope to see a Pike-Spock series also.
However, I propose that whatever news organization you’ve latched on to is focusing on a niche group of Christians to further an agenda of denigrating Trump. Most Christians aren’t hateful nor are they radical in a detrimental kind of way regardless of their support of Trump.
Unless of course you’ve succumbed to the “no true scotsman fallacy” and think being a Trump supporter makes one radical and hateful.
Re: Most Christians aren’t hateful
Tell it to those convicted in The Christian Inquisitions and the Salem Witch trials, the passengers on the steamer ST. LOUIS denied asylum fleeing the Nazis by countless “Christian” nations, the many many many Christians of The US South who justified black slavery because blacks were inherently more “sinful” and clearly “marked” as such, many “Christian” clerics who suggest that rapes of women by men like them are less heinous than gay consensual sex because such rapes are straight, …
hypocritical and hateful, and if sufficiently self-aware and still voting for him, then probably self-hating as well.
You never see Gene Hackman’s father in MISSISSIPPI BURNING, but based on the son’s description, he is exactly a Trump voter, happy to hurt others who might be better off because it is all he can do to feel better about himself.
Actually, Trumpism is all about punching down and hurting those who are worse-off than you are. That’s why right-wing populism is so hateful and fake. It never ends well.
Yeah, but that doesn’t explain the poor farmer who gets suckered by him and then still stands by him after getting further reamed by his rich get richer policies. I don’t have any sympathy for the suckers in his presidential con game, because these marks are costing us all dearly with their unflagging loyalty.
-Jeff – Trump supporters are radical and hateful. That’s a simple fact that even honest Trumpsters admit. (They relish their hatred of liberals and immigrants!) Pretending otherwise makes you look foolish.
Funny, PaulB, I’m a proud Trump supporter but have no hatred at all for anyone. Nor do any of the Trump supporters I personally know. I certainly don’t hate illegal immigrants, I just feel that they should go through the process for becoming an immigrant. Making a blanket statement like that makes you foolish, PaulB.
Oh, come on, we’re not children. Early in his campaign two Trump supporters beat a Hispanic man nearly to death, claiming upon their arrest that “Trump was right.” Trump’s reaction upon hearing about this was not to condemn the attack but to simply aver that “my supporters are very passionate people” and leave it at that. He hasn’t changed his rhetoric one iota since, as his monster rally last night amply demonstrated. Support whomever you like, but spare us the guff.
So 2 out of roughly 62 million people is your justification to group them all together? The news thrives on tiny and extreme controversial examples like that, but it isn’t indicative of the majority.
Right, sure. Trump can’t be held responsible for the conduct of his supporters, I would most certainly agree. What you didn’t address, though, was Trump’s own hateful conduct in that instance. I find that very telling.
Meanwhile, I’ve seen more hateful rhetoric from Trump supporters online than I care to recall. All they care about, apparently, is trolling liberals. And just FYI, non-hateful people don’t stand in line for hours just so they clap and yell “Lock her up! Lock her up!” in unison for the cameras like they were trained seals. Try to imagine Kirk or Spock or Picard standing there at last night’s monster rally in Orlando and nodding approvingly, then get back to me. And no, I’m not even a supporter of Hillary Clinton.
Thinking back though, I do think that back in 1979, the Ayatollah Khomeini emboldened a lot of people to help “Make Iran Great Again”. But you can’t really hold him responsible…
He probably gets off on the notion of folks killing in his name, part of this man-child who would be king/god nonsense that seems to fuel his delusions.
Under international law seeking asylum is a legal activuty. Mislabelling those seeking such as “illegal” as an act as unChristain, hateful, and heinous as denying the ST LOUIS.
It takes 4 walls to secure a perimeter. Saying only one southern wall is required for security is laughable in its transparent hate and xenophobia (with Trump we should probably include germophobia with which he foolishly believes the dark-skinned have a monopoly on disease.) solely directed at one group.
Mary, Joseph, and the infant Jesus sought refuge in Egypt, fearing death from Herrod, the king. Asylum seekers in a foreign land…
JP – Trump literally has neoNazis and other white supremacists rallying for him. The number one most common predictor of Trump support is fear of racial/cultural change. Trump told his cult members at Tuesday’s rally that “Democrats want to destroy you” and “destroy America”…
…but sure, J.P., I’m just making it up. Sure. Whatever.
Yeah. And of course Democrats are immune from such hateful tactics. They have never told their “cult members” (eyeroll) that the opposition wants to poison their children and kill their elderly. This is typical politics employed on BOTH sides of the aisle. It’s been that way for two hundred years now.
Come on, JP, don’t talk to people like they are stupid. A few facts – immigrants, legal or otherwise, do the entry level jobs most Americans can’t be bothered with, and keep the price of those goods produced at a price Americans are happy to pay. If you don’t believe that, then just try suggesting a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage at your next Trump rally. When you recover from the beating please report back on how your suggestion was received. Everyone does agree that the process does need fixing – documenting the seasonal workers should be a process that takes hours, not years, and documenting the immigrants and asylum seekers should take a few weeks, not decades. Yet all we hear from Donald is we need the wall to keep those filthy, rapist, murdering drug dealing gangster animals out of our fair land. There’s not a helluva lot of nuance there, just like there wasn’t when this talk surfaced in Germany in the thirties, aimed at the Jews. This is what your fearless leader says, JP, and there’s no spin that can be put on that to brush it off as a blanket statement.
On today’s episode of “The View”, Trump’s Orlando rally was big news. McLain said his followers loved him because “they hate what he hates.”
That’s when Mick Foley jumped in, did a cartwheel, and hit Triple H in the forehead with a folding chair…
It does make one radical and hateful, irrespective of religion. I have no beef with Christianity, but nothing could be more antithetical to Trek’s spirit and hopes for human unity and cooperation — not to mention respect for scientific expertise — than Trumpism.
I don’t mind if he’s a Christian, but I would hope that they wouldn’t make a big thing out of it. There are enough bible thumping Christians on TV.
Pike represents a kind of thoughtful, tolerant and respectful Christianity that seems to have been informed by Mount’s own Episcopalian/Anglican background. It’s a tradition that eshews telling other people what to believe… so is probably about as far in the direction of a mainstream religion as Trek could go.
I think that G. Bélanger is correct that it would be helpful to have a character that quietly represents a person of faith, even when its become uncommon in broader society.
I agree. I don’t know how Roddenberry would have felt about it, but I had no problem with Pike’s Christianity, and I’m an agnostic. You either believe in the concept of IDIC or you don’t.
I don’t mind that he’s Christian. I just don’t want them to make a big deal out of it. For example, if Pike needs to make an ethical decision, I want him to do the right thing because its the right thing, not because its the Christian thing to do. It might seem like a distinction without a difference, but there are enough characters on TV who are perfect because they believe in God. There are enough Americans who believe that you need to be a good Chrisian to be a good person. Its nice to see characters on TV who don’t fit that mold.
Um, why isn’t this thread locked by now and warnings issued? I’m highly offended and do not come here to argue politics and religion.
I’m sorry if I’ve said anything to offend you. I have no problem with Christians or their beliefs. I’m just a little bit tired of every character on TV being Christian.
Not really much news here, just pretty much a sum up of whats already going on.
I actually I thought it made a little news. I didn’t know the Short Treks for example were going to be six and mostly live action. Up until now I thought they were only going to be two and just animated.
And I’m excited to hear the other cartoon for Nickelodeon will be CGI. Thats definitely the way to go for animated shows and movies now.
I’m cautiously optimistic about Picard. I don’t understand why people who hated Discovery who say they wanted more of the Star Trek they loved, wanting it to fail even before a single episode airs.
Some people seem to just want anything new to fail. Perhaps they are bitter about something else.
These YouTube guys want to turn Trek into fanfic — and be in charge — but what it seems is that all they are up for is trashing Trek with so-called ‘insider information’ that is repeatedly shown to be false.
It’s really unfortunate that it seems that a number of fans get sucked into the closed loop of negative gossip.
That said, I’m concerned about the fans that keep talking about wanting TNG back in this new show, because they are setting themselves up for disappointment.
Patrick Stewart has been very clear that he would not come back as Picard on the Enterprise. Kirsten Beyer and Kurtzman came up with something that explores Picard’s later life that Patrick was willing to go for.
Criticizing the new show in advance for not being something that the actor was absolutely not willing to do seems unrealistic at best.
I really hope that people will accept it for what it is and join in the new adventure.
I think that time is Trek’s best friend. I remember the message boards for Enterprise and the films, and it was downright toxic. Now, 14 years after Enterprise was cancelled, I read that people really like Enterprise, and those same people hate Discovery.
While there’s good criticism of Discovery, I think the truly negative criticism comes from the lack of nostalgia the show evokes. Give it two decades, and we’ll be wishing Discovery went longer, and whatever is happening then will be the worst thing ever written.
Agreed. I am one those who want to see Enterprise back for at least a honorable conclusion.
I’ve never wanted Discovery to fail. I do think Trek is best when it’s in the hands of as many creators as possible.
I don’t want to start anything again, but if anybody felt that’s what my rude, nasty, childish rhetoric was about, I genuinely apologize.
I will absolutely cop to how ugly the rest of my posts were. I don’t expect anyone to accept my regrets for that.
I know I’m not typical, but for the record; I discovered Star Trek somewhere around age two. 😁
Right there with you ✊ of course that wasn’t my choice but my dad’s lol
It was my Mom’s youngest cousins, who were in high school in the early 70s. Aunt Delia babysat me so often, I developed a taste for it. I had the Colorforms set before I turned two. 😁 And I was watching the animated series on NBC Saturday mornings around same time too. Mom was thrilled. TAS made her appreciate Hong Kong Phooey! Sorta.
Make it so… er…. punch it… er…. do it do it do it… er… hit it!
LOL hmm or “beep” if we’re referring to his later catchphrase. Amazing how much Pike has featured in the franchise from what would’ve been a forgotten pilot if Trek hadn’t been short on episodes its first season.
“It looks like, wow. It’s on par with Love, Death, and Robots in terms of beauty and lighting and cinema, so it’s a a really different feel,..”
That’s truly bizarre comparison. I know he’s only taking about lighting and cinematic quality but wh does he use that show as a benchmark for a kids show directed at 4-9-year-olds??? I know it’s gonna be anything like a sci-fi-horror show, but even mentioning those two shows in one sentences comes off strange…
I listened to the podcast, and to me he was referring to the amount of polish/production value being on par with LDR, not the tone being the same.
He was talking about the quality of the animation, not the content in that comparison. How is that bizarre? He also mentioned Into the Spider-verse as a benchmark of animation quality for what they are striving to achieve. In context he was talking about how we are in a golden age of animation quality and that is their standard for the new Trek animated projects.
Does that mean Star Wars Resistance, Rebels, or the Clone wars, The Deep, Spiderman Into the Spiderverse, Wreck is Ralph, etc. aren’t the kind of quality he could compare to?
I don’t understand your question, Jeff. He specifically mentioned Into the Spider-Verse as an example of what they are aiming for in animation quality. The Star Wars shows are likely models as well.
I don’t see Into the Spider-Verse mentioned.
They talked about it on the full podcast.
I can only recommend listening to it, it was very insightful.
I suppose this means no Khan show/miniseries, and no Academy show, although the Nickelodeon show seems to be along those lines.
Nachum, I wouldn’t say ‘no’ or ‘never’, but it sounds as though neither is within a 3 year horizon.
What is clear is that CBS and Secret Hideout are doing solid market research at this point.
There appears to be a shift from coming up with concepts and then thinking about the market niche to thinking about the niches that Trek isn’t reaching and then scoping out what would be the Trek show that would best fit the niche.
I’m still wondering who would be the market for an Academy show and where it would run. It’s probably to adult for Nick Teen, but that would be its natural audience age-wise. I’m not surprised it hasn’t been greenlighted. They might do better with a miniseries with age-appropriate actors than with a series with 30 year olds pretending to be 16 to 22 year olds.
Lets see, we’ve had a latin man play the Indian man Khan, and we’ve had a super white British dude play the Indian man Khan. I too would like to see a Khan miniseries with perhaps an Indian, or at least someone from that region, playing the character.
Super positive vibes from these updates, very excited to see it all happen (esp the Picard show, series 3 of Discovery and maybe we’ll get something…anything… with Pike and crew!)
Since some of us are blue-skying a bit on this thread, I’d like to throw in a wild idea.
After all the hype around a possible Tarantino movie, which seems to appeal some fans on the basis of attracting new people to Trek (about which I’m not convinced)….,
I’ve been wondering whether the CBSAA shows could benefit from having a celebrity guest star.
Voyager really benefited from The Rock making his TV debut in an episode.
While Tig Notaro on Discovery isn’t the same level of draw, her character is popular and gets critical notice outside the usual Trek media.
So, how about having Aubrey Drake Graham (the actor) better known as Drake (the rap musician) on Discovery or the Empress Georgiou/ S31 show filming in Toronto (the 6ix)?
Drake is huge, and can act and has been pretty verbal about wanting to get into acting again. He’s got a solid acting work ethic. He was on 145 episodes of the teen classic Degrassi, and the episode in which his character Jimmy was shot in the back is held to be the most intense of a multi-decade series.
As Variety recently noted, his celebrity has overtaken his music and he’s said that he doesn’t see his music career as “for ever” no matter how many billion downloads his songs get.
Drake would be a huge draw for Trek and CBSAA, bringing his own diversity and a diverse set of loyal fans, many of whom have followed him since Degrassi. It doesn’t sound as though other Hollywood types are picking up on Drake’s clear messages that he’d like to act again. Why shouldn’t Trek go for it?
If he can be cast in a recurring role, I agree. A guest star? I dunno…
Maybe he could be Discovery’s bartender.
He can do more than that as a recurring character.
He successfully carried the role of a black teen with basketball dreams who ended up in a wheelchair after the shooting.
And if you’ve ever seen the scene of his character Jimmy trying to buy his first packet of condoms from a white store clerk who relentlessly razzes him, you’ll know he can handle natural, painful comedy.
There’s some ‘best of Drake on Degrassi’ compilations on YouTube that give a good sense of his range.
I love that marketing brain of yours, let’s greenlight it! Seriously though, Trek has never been short of star power; it seems like half of Hollywood has been on the show or movies in one form or another. But leveraging it with someone like Drake, or maybe Rihanna since she’s a self-professed Trekkie [or the two of them together lol], is a great idea that CBS should at least look into if they can do it without it feeling gimmicky.
Not sure about Rhianna…that would be gimmicky even if the announcement might break the Internet.
Drake though sounds like he really wants to seriously act again.
He was pushed off the regular cast of Degrassi because he was trying to do both music and acting, and spent all night in the studio after full days on set. So, it sounds like he has an unfulfilled wish to keep growing as an adult actor.
Discovery – with Cruz and Rapp who also started child/adolescent actors – might be an excellent company to get him back into it.
The problem with the analogy is that Dwayne Johnson was basically cast on Voyager as a wrestler. I’d sure hate to see a musician cast for no other reason as a ratings draw. If the part were right for a limited run, and all parties were agreeable, I’d not care if Drake, Lady Gaga or Steve Van Zant ended up with roles….
The difference Phil is that Drake was a regular actor under the name Aubrey Graham, in a long running series from the age of 14.
And he was a good teen actor, before he focused on music, with a best supporting young actor award.
Credibly playing the role of a competitive athletic teen who gets shot and has to adjust to never walking again is more than proof that they wouldn’t have to create a one note part for him.
Now he’s sending out signals that he’d like to act again.
So, while his mega popularity as a musician would be a ratings draw, he’s more than demonstrated that he has the acting chops for both drama and humour.
He’d want to be challenged as an actor and would add a different kind of diversity.
So the YouTube channels reporting on the rumors that Kurtzman has been fired are obviously inaccurate, and at some point I wonder when they’ll realize continuing to report unsubstantiated rumors just hurts their credibility. However, a curious side effect – we did get this update from Kurtzman just after those videos were released. Almost as if CBS, and Kurtzman realized they needed to say “something” to quiet the rumor mill. There’s not really a lot of news in this update other that Kurtzman saying “hey, I’m still here and still working on this stuff”, which is good to hear for sure. But I suspect quieting the inaccurate rumor mill was the motivating factor behind this update.
I don’t think these Youtubers worry about credibility. They serve a very specific audience who also don’t worry about the accuracy of what’s reported. They just want to vent.
The Midnight’s Edge video hit just before Deadline announced that they had a podcast with Kurtzman. That’s coincidental but also shows how out of their depth Midnight’s Edge is.
I gleaned nothing new out of any of this, but nice talk about Picard. Looking forward to the start of Picard in the fall, but that’s pretty much where my interest ends in all this. Section 31, zero interest. I’ll give the Burnham show…excuse me, Discovery, a shot when that returns, but it’s going to take a lot to make me invest my time in that show again. A Pike/Enterprise show sounds like a long shot to me. Best of luck to the endeavors aimed at a younger crowd.
Based on the comments it sounds like Kurtzman is merely acknowledging the popularity of a potential Pike show. But reading between the lines it feels like there is absolutely zero intention to even consider how it could be done. As if it’s just something he has no interest in whatsoever. Which is sad that they lack the ability to shift on the fly when something better than they have planned comes up.
I didn’t read between the lines that way at all M31.
What I heard was that:
1) it takes a lot of time to line up the ducks to make a new show happen 2-3 years from concept, and
2) how they would realize the Pike show is not obvious, but all new live productions (i.e. other than Picard) will be shot in Toronto –which we’ve heard is an issue for Mount. — Sounds like his wife, who he met in Calgary, has moved her photography career to the NYC area, so it’s not obvious that she can relocate again and he’s not willing to spend 10 months a year away.
From what I gleaned from the actors it certainly feels like they aren’t closed to the idea of a Pike-centric series. It is hard to imagine that the Discovery people didn’t think Pike could very well be a breakout character when they dropped him into their show for the entire 2nd season. He seems to be resonating FAR more than Georgeau is. Yet she is the one they have decided to bend over backwards to include in a new show for some goofball reason. Obviously we fans are not privy to inner workings of CBSAA but from the outside looking in I do not see any real impediment to working on more than 2 (live action) shows at a time. They have their own staffs, don’t they? And BTW… Logistics can easily be worked out if it gets to the point where they have decided to hire actors for the show.
That’s how I feel too ML31. Reading this thread there is a lot of wish fulfillment over a show no one has remotely suggested would happen. All Kurtzman has said is they may like to use them more in the future but that may not be anything more than a Short Trek or an appearance on the Section 31 show (assuming that takes place in the 23rd century again).
I think they have a five year plan that they decided awhile ago they will stick to and thats it. Its not to say it can’t be changed but he said it himself, these projects take years to plan out. The only show they really rushed to make happen was the Picard show and that was probably due to both Stewart’s age and CBS wanting a post Nemesis/TNG era based show to get all the people who hate Discovery on ASAP. But the other shows are sounding like they are 2-3 years out from when they were announced and I just can’t see them putting four live action shows on any time soon even if they don’t all air at the same time. The only way I an see a Pike show happening if one of those productions are pulled or cancelled first.
But I agree with you, Section 31 seems to be the most obvious to pull since that seems the least liked out of all of them, at least in terms of the fanbase. BUt its clear Kurtzman is sticking to his guns with that show too. Or maybe when Discovery is cancelled as I imagine that show will be the first to go since it will be the oldest. But when that will happen, who knows?
S31 is only happening because CBS believes Michelle Yeoh will attract hordes of different viewers to Star Trek. This could happen, but then again there are a lot of actors who are super popular for one thing and then completely bomb outside of it e.g. Chris Hemsworth. People love him as Thor, not so much as everything else.
Michelle Yeoh is a horrible actor. Wooden. SO over-rated! Dump her and bring us a Pike show!!!
It doesn’t sound like CBS’ market research agrees with you about Michelle Yeoh.
I’m glad that Kurtzman is very deliberately taking risks to develop new Trek products to expand the audience.
If the senior corporate management thinks this is a viable investment, let’s be supportive.
It’s clearly not either/or with Pike’s Enterprise. If they can find a viable concept, get the talent on board and get the market research data to back it, Pike’s Enterprise will happen in some format or other.
If the goal is to cover 52 weeks a year, there is room for one more show beyond Discovery, Picard and S31. More than that Pike would serve a different niche than any of those three.
All to say that the ‘go, no go’ for Pike is an independent decision.
Maybe we should just give the S31 show a chance? See it, and THEN make up our minds?
It’d be a great opportunity to bring Jason Isaacs back, but as Prime Lorca, and see if there are some conflicts the Federation captain might have with the former Terran Emperor?
I definitely want to see more of L’Rell and Tevanik.
She’s not a horrible actor. I watched her in “Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon” and found her anything but “wooden.” Restrained passion seems to be hard for some viewers to understand.
Marja, Yeoh needs the right part to shine. Georgeau is NOT it.
I think people are overestimating the value of Michelle Yeoh. You think Crazy Rich Asians had good BO because of her? Wrong. It was a great part for her (unlike Georgeau) and she played it very well (again, unlike Georgeau). But she was not why that movie was a success. At all. This isn’t 1996 any more. Her star is not nearly as bright as it once was. I applaud the concept of different Trek genres. I do. But holding on to a show centered on a badly conceived character just so they can hold on to an actress whose popularity in East Asia is not what it once was just feels like an error. Not a critical one, mind you. But they could do much better.
I agree Tezna, I mean I like Michelle Yeoh but I don’t really see an entire new group of fans turning on the show because she’s leading it either. I get wanting to keep the actress but I don’t think having her star in her own show is going to bring any huge interest. She’s on Discovery now, I wonder if anyone watch the show because she’s simply on it. I doubt its more than a handful if that’s really the case.
And speaking of Hemsworth, looks like the MIB sequel is another dud. I will never get it, this guy makes millions to be in these movies and he has not had a single hit outside of MCU in years now. In some ways Paramount may have dodged a bullet by NOT putting him in the next Trek film and maybe have yet another bomb on its hands. Its obvious the Hemsworth name does not carry a movie even though Hollywood seem to think it does.
China, China, China.
Just think how great it would be to get Chinese Trek fans onboard. I know she’s not Chinese, but she’s well known there.
@A34: Does Discovery run in China? As far as I know Netflix is not available in China (at least not officially). I guess, CBS can always try to get a Chinese distributor onboard.
I don’t know about officially. I know they have tons of websites that allow them to watch it online.
The Section 31 show would be a great way for them to get their foot in the door officially.
The adventures of Enterprise will only be seen in the movies. If Pike comes back, it will be to welcome back the Disco crew back to the 23rd century.
1.) Pike. Now.
2.) Keep your Star Wars out of our Star Trek.
Pike now? Who the hell made you king Trekkie?
great interview… first time i’ve heard him… he really sounds like he cares about trek and sounds like we’re in good hands… he doesn’t seem like the trek hating monster some die hards claim he is… he obviously really cares about fans even the ones who hate him… the process for Picard sounds amazing… can’t wait for these animated shows…
i fell in love with trek when i was 13… hated it before but then was home sick and discovered city on the edge… and that was that. JJ gave an interview a few years ago how he wanted to do something similar in organizing this world on the film side but paramount didn’t want that… they just wanted one film at a time. JJ saw the potential but was frustrated with their road blocks and gave up. that’s when he jumped to star wars.
So what about those rumours eh? hahahah ST YouTube community is practically a dumpster fire.
Although it is highly unlikely to ever happen, I agree it would be good for Enterprise to have a proper finale. Perhaps a CGI animated episode with the cast doing the voice overs. That seems to be something that would be both logistically and economically viable.
I agree. Really wish there was SOME way to give that show a proper goodbye. And undo that wasted Trip death while they are at it. If he were to perish, it ought to be for something bigger than getting Archer to the podium in time so he could make a speech!
I think that would make a great television movie. See, that’s the amazing thing of a streaming service, you can just do one-off productions and have a platform for it. But I doubt CBS would devote any more resources to it than one production, since the audience for ENT was never very big to begin with.
I’m honestly so amped for the Nick series, I think it sounds epic! I have a feeling it will be set in the farther future, post Nemesis and maybe even post Picard, in a new era that we’ve never seen realized on screen and that could only be realized with modern CGI. From Kurtzman’s comments, it sounds like it will be a visually stunning work, which I can envision to be the perfect canvas for true sci-fi imagery and concepts. Like Rick and Morty brings amazing sci-fi ideas to life with its beautiful animation and clever writing, the Nick series can do the same while also giving the series a clean slate of canon to offer up looming threats every now and then that may otherwise interfere with established timeline canon.
When I think of 24th century Trek, I think of the 90s — an era that began three decades ago! It is such a dated depiction of the future, covered in zeerust as they say on TV Tropes. I envision this Nick series giving kids a dose of something even further thinking, technology even more advanced than iPads and laptops, things we’ve never seen on Trek before because of the limitations of live action. So I think the Nick series will push boundaries in interesting ways, and ultimately be Trek for all ages to enjoy, in the same way many Nick series in the 90s were subliminal in their appeal to adults as they entertained the children.
I’m also thrilled to hear that Lower Decks is proceeding, because I’m even more interested in that, I think. I hope it isn’t trying too hard to be like Rick and Morty in its comedy style, because no one is looking for an R&M knockoff dressed like Star Trek. The same could be said for Section 31 in terms of a spacey show of intrigue. Honestly, if Kurtzman can pull off that show without embarrassing Star Trek, we can call it a success. But you gotta applaud him for thinking outside the Trek box and branching out.
Short Treks, I like the concept of them and I hope they keep it up. It’s good to have such a diversity of formats and takes on the Trek universe — assuming it’s entertaining, at least. I’m excited to get the sneak peek at Trek animations when they drop. Also did he say Michael Giacchino is directing a Short Trek? Doesn’t he do music? I see he has one director credit to his name on IMDB. ???
Lastly, as for Picard, I’m suddenly looking forward to it a lot more now that it’s feeling more real and tangible as news of it trickles out. It might be a series my dad would want to sit down and watch with me and he may actually get into it, which he didn’t so much for Discovery, to the point we haven’t even finished S1 together and he’s forgotten most of it already anyway. Not a very encouraging reception to the series, and kinda mirrors my own interest in it, unfortunately.
I just hope that Patrick Stewart doesn’t play old man Picard as, well, old man Picard in the way he has in the past. In All Good Things he was a cranky old man, and yeah, he was also sick with mental illness, but it was a little much. Same with his old man in Logan, where he was a similarly crazed old man. I hope he’s more like the old man Kamin we see in Inner Light, not cranky or “old” but just like the normal guy we know with added age. Like, I hope he doesn’t “play” an old man the way he has in the past; I hope he’s still recognizably the Picard we remember without being like a dramatic and cranky guy.
DAZZIT for my thoughts, thanks for the roundup Alex and TM!
Of the shows that are green lit, the only one that I’m jonsing for is Lower Decks. I can take or leave the Picard show. And while the Section 31 show seems to have been all but green lit I have to say I have ZERO interest in it. Regarding Picard, I just hope he becomes interesting and flawed in his old age. The complete opposite of the younger version. If he remains perfect at everything it will just be a huge bore.
If a Pike show were in the works I’d REALLY be jonsing for that one. Which is odd because if asked about a Pike show BEFORE seeing him on Discovery I would have said, “no way!”
Here’s an idea, instead of “we’re listening to the fans,” actually listen. Drop the Section 31 show and give us a show centered around Pike and the Enterprise.
No, we won’t be doing that.
I want both, I want to see the Section 31 show, and I want a Pike mini-series.
Aren’t all the streaming shows mini-series’?
So is discovery season 5 going to air around the same time as Picard or is it going to be a year later? I hope they have at least going or start having proper 22 episode seasons and only taking a few month break. These 10 ep streaming shows that are alm released at once and then don’t come back for another year in a half needs to stop.
Kurtzman said that Discovery will go into production in Toronto in July. It usually targets 13 episodes per season, but they’ve topped that up both seasons so far.
Which means Picard had a 3 month head start in California on a 10 episode season.
So, by the math, Discovery S3 will launch closely after Picard S1 is done.
S31 will go into production right after Discovery S3, but that implies a delay given the time it’s taking to shoot.
I’m not sure Discovery will reach a season 5. My gut is saying 4 will be their max. They may even end after 3 with all the other Trek stuff scheduled to come down the pipe. Again, I have no special insight. Just a theory given what’s been going on.
It will probably do seven, just like TNG, DS9 and Voy. Picard might stop after three, because I’m not sure that Stewart wants to commit to a full seven years at his age though.
Midnight’s Edge is just pathetic. Last month, three days before set photos and the teaser from Picard are released they claim filming was indefinitely delayed. Now they say Kurtzman’s fired two days before this interview where Kurtzman talks about his ten year plan AND it was reported TODAY that Kurtzman inked a huge deal with CBS worth $5M a year to him.
Why does anyone even pay attention to them or spread their nonsense around?
This kind of “disinformation presented as fact” is the way that one dude got to be head of the U.S. LOL
“This kind of “disinformation presented as fact” is the way that one dude got to be head of the U.S. LOL”
Tell me, what is it with Discovery supporters CONSTANT need to bring up Donald Trump and accuse anyone who criticizes the direction Star Trek is going of behaving like Trump or being a Trump fanboy? We never had this kind of nonsense in Star Trek fandom prior to the Kurtzman-Discovery era. I can just imagine how discussions would have been in the 90s if you guys were throwing partisan political bombs back then.
Trekkie 1: Man, Voyager has been awful this season! Someone please fire Brannon Braga! The way he writes Janeway is killing UPN!
Trekkie 2: Another Voyager hater? Let me guess, you’re a Newt Gingrich fan, right? Janeway haters have ‘Contract With America’ written all over them.
A more accurate exchange would be:
Midnight’s Edge: CBS is on a campaign to make the Kelvin timeline the prime timeline and STD is a trojan horse.
Also STD has been cancelled, Picard show is in trouble, Kurtzman has been fired.
Actual Trekkie: Stop lying for clicks you pathetic scumbags.
Why are you focusing on just DSC supporters? I don’t like that show at all and feel exactly the same way regarding disinfo passing for fact, as should any concerned citizen, or supporter of ethical behavior. So don’t discriminate!
Also, your example about VOYAGER/GINGRICH sounds nonesenical, though I do wish they had fired Braga — back when he was on TNG. There was plenty to complain about during BermanTrek era, and there were definitely correlations between realworld politics and the shows (Nick Meyer describing TREK as being in the vein of plaid-pants Republicanism certainly jives with that!)
The connection between entertainment and politics is even more telling when you go back a few decades to Spiro Agnew pretty much ordering the networks to do anti-drug eps on nearly every series … and they obeyed. That’s the kind of thing we’re headed toward like a downhill runaway freight train.
tRUMP is scum, that’s why.
BillyBoy, this entire analogy makes no sense lol.
And I criticized Discovery’s entire first season here, no one ever accused me of being a Trump supporter over it. That would be pretty dire if someone did call me a Trump supporter though….ugh.
Ohhh, BillyBoy, dear heart. Guess you weren’t around TrekMovie in the JJ days 2009-13, eh? Haters lined up on the side of Tradition, the Triumvirate, and objected to the “feminist” idea of giving Uhura a bigger role. Some of the traditionalists made statements that made it clear they were older, Republican folks. And some made it pretty clear they didn’t like “uppity women”, particularly “uppity women” of color.
“And some made it pretty clear they didn’t like “uppity women”, particularly “uppity women” of color.”
So that’s why they hate Michael so much.
Its just a direct comparison. Website lies through it teeth to excite its fan base. The president lies through his teeth to excite his fan base. The faithful love it, and it irritates everyone else.
Which is exactly why Trump is the only President in the last 50 years that has never gotten more than half the country on his side, at least once in his presidency. Bush was hated for a lot of his years in office but people forget for a full year after 911 he had a 90% approval rating for awhile and fell to about 60% by 2003 prior to the Iraq War. If Trump hits 45% that’s a great week for him.
He’s hated for a reason. He’s an inept immature manchild at best and a lying criminal/con-artist at worst. He’s somewhere in the middle most of the time.
Exactly! Thank you!
Because my analogy is spot on. It it what it is.
I guess Midnight’s Edge is picking glass out of their feet right about now.
He doesn’t need to be mentioning Star Wars. Especially in drawing an unfavourable comparison with Wesley Crusher. That will do nothing to settle the nerves of people unhappy with what they are seeing on screen at the moment. Kurtzman obviously has zero time or respect for the established fanbase.
I thought the same thing when I read that particular part, Soren. It smacks of hubris.
Hey, I’ll take Wesley Crusher over JarJar anyday. I like him more than Harry Kim, too, and more than any human on the nx-01 and every non-Tilly being on DISC.
I’ll take everyone on Voyager and the NX-01 and on DS9 over Wesley Crusher. He belongs on the Mt. Rushmore of terrible regular Trek Characters.
I never had a huge issue with Wesley personally. I guess they shouldn’t have made him a ‘prodigy’ which seems to be mostly the issue people had with him.
And I think when it came time to add another kid on DS9 Berman and Pillar learned from that and just made Jake Sisko a normal kid and why he never got the scorn Wesley did. I’m glad they decided not to have him go into Starfleet, another testament to that show because watching TOS and TNG you would think everyone who grows up on Earth dreams of being in Starfleet only.
I agree, the prodigy aspect of Wesley turned a lot of people off as my main objection was “why is there a CHILD on the bridge?!” Then in ensuing episodes he was just a giant dweeb.
DS9 learned a LOT of lessons regarding characters from TNG. So did the other post TNG shows.
I guess nobody remembers that the best fannish moment in all of FARPOINT is when Wesley gets to sit in the chair. Camerawise, it was as close to a VR experience as you could get back then. And ‘we’re starfleet – we don’t lie’ is played perfectly.
Interesting perspective Soren.
I can understand from a communications point of view that it makes sense to avoid a flash point with some fans, but I totally disagree that mentioning SW shows a lack of respect or appreciation for the existing fan base.
Liking Trek doesn’t mean hating SW.
Frankly, I think the comparison was on point.
Trek has always had a kids market, but hasn’t consciously served it well. And if Trek’s ethos is about envisioning and inspiring a better future for humanity, then finding a way to reach and inspire younger children with age-appropriate content is spot-on.
Personally, I haven’t liked where SW has gone since the first 3 movies precisely because it’s lost what it had in common with Trek – that is, people reaching for a positive future where different species worked together and appreciated one another.
TG-47, I don’t really understand [Star Wars] lost what it had in common with Trek – that is, people reaching for a positive future where different species worked together and appreciated one another.
Yes, the species worked together [just as they have all the way through The Last Jedi] to fight the Big Bad.
It’s really too bad Paramount, NBC and CBS didn’t do more SWars-like merchandising for Trek; that’s one thing Lucas mastered for sure. That might have grabbed more kids. I don’t know. I think the “Hero with a Thousand Faces” universal myth worked in Star Wars’ favor, because it is understood in nearly all cultures, while a bunch of officers in a ship encountering new life and new civilizations is a bit more … [sigh] … cerebral.
I can’t really figure out what he meant by that. Young Skywalker was about Wesley’s age. Was AK more able to identify with him because Luke wasn’t a Wesley-style geeeeenius?
Luke was young but not that young. He was suppose to be the age of Hamill, around 19 or 20. Wesley really was suppose to be a kid, around 14 or 15, around Wheaton’s real age as well. Its only a 5 year difference but at those ages those are BIG differences.
Dump Discovery – They were lost to the future anyway and start the next series – STAR TREK: NCC-1701 PIKE.
PC3, I find your negativity really frustrating.
Basically, what I think I’m hearing from you is, “If it’s not the kind of Trek I want, no one should have it.”
Can we all please stop trying to make this a sibling competition between Trek products?
I’ve found Discovery very uneven, and would love to see Pike’s Enterprise, but never at the expense of Discovery or the S31 series in the works.
Kurtzman’s strategy is to have a wide menu of Trek products that are very different from one another, but all of which hold to core Trek values and concepts.
He’s quite honest, and fairly humble, about needing to experiment to figure out how to reach different market niches and use different visual approaches (such as animation) while still having it ‘feel Trek’.
I just don’t get why folks find this so hard to appreciate…
Well said TG47. Despite a rocky first two seasons and no, the show is not perfect (which one is), but thanks to Kurtzman and the success of Discovery which got the ball rolling there are at least 5 more years of various Star Trek projects – each with differing appeal for varying audiences. I too certainly would like to see a Pike mini series or maybe a couple of longer tv movies, but I also want to see what they do with Discovery, especially now that it is in the 30th century.
Yes, and I really love the idea of having some form of Trek on TV all year round. Several series would be great, but it will take time for them to get to that point.
Golly, PC3, I guess CBS is going to listen to you, television production and marketing expert that you are …
Pardon my sarcasm. Want what you want, but don’t issue commands. They don’t listen to those. Requests are nice. Especially when made in a positive tone.
I’ve mentioned this before, the Federation universe is a big place, and there’s more then one ship in the fleet. We don’t need to confine our exploration to the corridors of the Enterprise.
Picard isn’t hitting the small screen until the end of the year, and DIS in 2020. Six Short Treks, six months between now and Picard. When do we see the schedule announcement, guys?
I actually wonder are we going to see anything else in 2020 besides Discovery and the Short Treks? It does sound like nothing else will show up until 2021. Kind of crazy but understandable.
Well, if table reads started for Lower Decks last month, and it takes one year post recording of voices for the animation, then it sounds as though Lower Decks could debut after Discovery’s S3 finale.
Oh, interesting! Yeah maybe it will happen by next year. Can’t wait to hear more about that one, but we’re still waiting to hear what the Picard show is about and that one is actually shooting lol.
Definitely want to see a Pike Trek show. After all, we know how it ends, but we don’t know what leads to that ending…
@ dswynne – Agreed. There’s huge potential for a whole heap of adventures for Pike and Spock in the Enterprise that I’d prefer to watch over the likes of some of the upcoming Trek roster. Preferably with a return to the variety of episode stories and moral dilemmas that made the original TOS show so re-watchable overall.
Still hoping that the PICARD show turns out to be a worthwhile watch however.
The TOS Relaunch novels (i.e. published since Nemesis was released) have been able to be fresh and original without violating canon.
It’s perfectly possible to do high quality, original stories in this era.
Bringing in one of the Trek-lit authors into the writers room could really help.
Kirsten Beyer is fantastic, but she’s mainly written in the 24th century. Someone like David Mack (who’s a film school grad, an who wrote a couple of DS9 script stories) or Dayton Ward (former US Marine), could really enrich the stories.
How about a couple of Pike’s Enterprise based Short Treks written by those two to see how it works?
I guess this article is making Midnight’s Edge, Nerdrotic and Doomcock feel pretty stupid…? 😂
I’m pretty sure they knew all along that what they were reporting was made up. Also, I’m pretty sure that they don’t have to fear any backlash from their loyal audience. So being proven wrong doesn’t hurt them. They got their clicks and that’s all they care about.
What I don’t understand is how they have a loyal audience. Why would anyone keep going to them for information after they’ve been wrong time after time?
What’s the point in getting (really) fake news?
I don’t understand the benefit in being apprised of plans that will never materialize and events that will never occur.
Welcome to the echo chamber, Cygnus. It’s not that the information is wrong, it’s just that that’s what that particular group of people want to hear. Everyone knows Alex Jones is a fruit loop, or that Breitbart prints fiction – but it’s what their audience wants to hear.
What big announcement will they make at Star Trek Convention in August I wonder this year?
Free Starbucks in Conference Room 3!!
Why dump Discovery? Section 31? Or any specific show? Guys, please, be supportive. CBS/Kurtzman are producing several shows! Be grateful they have reactivated the franchise!
Why are (and yeah I’m gonna use that dreaded phrase now) ‘some fans’ so obsessed about ‘the franchise’ anyway? Isn’t it enough to get a good fix of entertainment that works for you on occasion? Do you have to have such a great volume of product — which pretty much guarantees tons and tons more crap — instead of a slow trickle of good to excellent viewing. There is no PRINCESS BRIDE franchise (though I guess there is a sequel book), and it hasn’t devalued the novel or the film to me. I am reasonably sure that DS9 is going to be the last Trek series to really work for me, and one of the reasons is that it was considered a departure and then to some degree orphaned.
With every detail micromanaged like they do with this current mgmt (they don’t even seem to allow outside articles to be written about the making of the series DSC, which has got to be a science fiction first, and which sounds like the basis for a show of its own to me), it’s unlikely quality can survive the development process. Need a past example: for me, first (and last) excellent season of TNG was season 3, when they actually did not have time to rewrite into submission the good scripts they had gotten in, and wound up shooting them instead — with largely excellent results. Once the machine is well-oiled, it results in slicker product, but also safer tamer product … Bermanized, if you will (and I won’t.)
Well Mr. Kurtzman, as soon as you make a good Star Trek show I will listen to you.
You know…with all of the TV side of Trek churning and roiling and gaining speed…it makes it that much sadder that the film side of Trek is sitting in the Paramount lot, abandoned, fluids removed, and wheels stripped. I know the Kelvin Timeline isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but it didn’t deserve to go out with a whimper.
By which I mean the fact that everyone was so excited for a fourth movie and it just evaporated. If Paramount had said some time sooner that Beyond was the last, then I would say the KT went out with a bang.
Kurtzman basically gives the same information he did the last time.
I do think there is damage control, but I take all with a pinch of salt. I have never been a fan of Kurtzman and it’s terrifies me he is the head guy. This guy has been involved in the only Trek projects that I totally dislike and feel angry about.
Kurtzman would be a great politician, talks much, yet says little.
Please, Please, announce a Christopher Pike Enterprise show!!!!!
Okay, lets hear it for CP Enterprise!! Oh, wait, my announcing it isn’t what you’re looking for.
And to be serious for just a moment, maybe there isn’t anything wrong with expanding the Trek universe a bit. There are a lot of ships in the fleet, afterall….we don’t have to keep coming back to Kirk, Spock, and the Enterprise.