This week, Anthony and Laurie delve into the latest Alex Kurtzman interview for info on the Section 31 show and new creative hires in the Star Trek Universe, and discuss the news that Star Trek: Discovery is hitting CBS proper—the broadcast network, not the streaming service. Then they review “Moist Vessel,” episode 4 of Star Trek: Lower Decks (repeating the title as often as they can), and discuss the William Shatner’s 1970s game show era.
Links to topics discussed in the pod
News:
Alex Kurtzman talks Section 31 show and composer Nami Melumad
CBS Network broadcasting Star Trek: Discovery
Other mentions:
Trekbits:
Laurie: Episode of The Delta Flyers podcast where they talk about Neelix’s crush
Anthony: William Shatner on the “Storybook Squares” version of Hollywood Squares
William Shatner and Henry Winkler’s Better Late Than Never GalaxyCon panel on Aug. 29
A very shaky video of William Shatner & Leonard Nimoy on The 10,000 Pyramid in 1977
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Michelle Yeoh is the only reason I would watch a Section 31 show in my opinion.
She was incredible in Crazy Rich Asians. Crazy Rich Asians is a wonderful film, check it out for yourself.
Her background being from Malaysia is also interesting. Michelle Yeoh is one of the best actresses in Hollywood today.
I’m surprised CBS is broadcasting Star Trek: Discovery. So excited about season 3.
Lower Decks had a fantastic episode. I’m loving the workplace sitcom style of the show.
Michelle Yeoh is a powerhouse where I agree they have to give her a Trek show but not quite sure Section 31 is the way to go. It’s too bad killing off Georgiou was the way to go to set Discovery up.
I wonder if it’s going to end up time travel with Yeoh having to travel through time to save Trek (turns out Section 31 is a product of the temporal war)? While this sounds cool, I hate time travel – why didn’t Section 31 then prevent WW2, etc. You’d need some kind of rule, they can only fix what a third party has broken or something.
Alternatively it might work well as a future Trek show in which her new organization has to pick up the pieces in a turbulent frontier universe. This avoids the time travel BS.
I don’t know about time travel but her character could have been better. Section 31 has a lot of promise I have to admit.
“While this sounds cool, I hate time travel – why didn’t Section 31 then prevent WW2…”
Well, Doctor Who is entirely based on time travel and the Doctor didn’t prevent WW2 either. It’s pretty easy: that version of Section 31 only repairs the damage that other time travelling parties have done… Daniels could have worked for them against Future Guy… Future Guy might be the baddie of that show, or the hero, or he might actually BE Georgiou. Or George Oh for what it’s worth.
No, time travel would be the only plot that could boost my interest in that show. I don’t want a boring space spy fy show aka Agents of SHIELD. There hasn’t been a Trek show exclusively dealing with time travel.
This could be the closest thing to “Assignment: Earth”… Gary Seven could be Georgiou’s partner in crime along with that shapeshifting cat. And once a season we get a cameo from various Section 31-related and time travel-related characters like Reed, Tyler, Bashir, Oh, Daniels, Dulmer and Lucsley, Braxton, Gillian Taylor, Edith Keeler, Berlinghoff Rasmussen… Or maybe they are recurring characters regularly appearing on the show.
This show could positively link the entire Trek universe and even explain some continuity issues.
Star Trek has already covered this why no one in the Federation can just go back in time and change whatever they want. The first one is the temporal prime directive which directly states no one in the Federation can go back back in time and alter the timeline in any egregious way.
And we know they have time ships in the 29th century that is suppose to actively stop any major changes to the timeline.
Then finally there is the Department of Temporal Investigations which I assume was set up in the 24th century to investigate all time travel issues and to be accordance with the temporal prime directive.
It’s been made clear why they can’t just change what they want….over 20 years ago now.
And yes if the Section 31 show is actually based on time travel then their jobs could just be trying to keep the timeline in tact. This isn’t exactly a new idea for Star Trek either. One of the concepts they were considering for a post-Voyager show was a Star Trek time travel show with a Starfleet temporal task force going around various time periods to stop other factions from changing the timeline. That was before they settled on Enterprise and I suspect to this day that the temporal cold war from that show was suppose to be part of the premise for the other show.
But with Section 31, they can pretty much do what they want with them. Discovery has already made them so powerful with all the crazy tech with time travel suits (hey??) and super A.I.computers then yeah nothing stops them from being a time travel organization either.
Because WW3 can’t happen without WW2, and if WW3 doesn’t happen, in the Trek timeline there would be no peaceful united Earth afterwards and therefore no Federation either. So, Section 31 is more likely to use time-travel to deliberately incite those world wars rather than trying to stop them.
Exactly!!
I mean we’re Star Trek fans, we know how changing the timeline that drastically, even for good, can still have horrible repercussions later on. City on the Edge of Forever made that point clear over 50 years ago and that was just saving one person. If you change ANYTHING in the timeline, good or bad, can still have even worse repercussions later on. Yes, you may stop WW 2, but then you may have just wiped out the Federation two hundred years later in the process. You may have saved thousands, maybe millions of lives in that period, but you may have actually destroyed billions a few centuries later. Maybe the Romulans now control all of the Alpha quadrant or the Borg was able to assimilate Earth and on and on.
A few months ago I watched the Stephen King mini-series on Hulu, 11.22.63, (and produced by everyone’s favorite producer/director here JJ Abrams ;)), which was all about going back in time trying to stop the Kennedy assassination. It was pretty good but without giving things away, it doesn’t automatically mean it will all have a happy ending even if you can stop it.
These warnings are made over and over again in science fiction stories, especially in Star Trek. I would assume most fans wouldn’t even be raising it as a question given all we seen happen over the years.
Faze Ninja, so sorry, I really like Michelle Yeoh, please don’t get me wrong, she is amazing. She is very talented, smart, beautiful, and she can beat anyone, physically! But for me, for some reason, Mirror Universe Phillippa (not Michelle) is just there, not defined, with no substance.
The character is a contradiction, which is the main purpose of the story. I understand. The problems that many fans have, is the contradiction needs a better argument. Her reasons for her actions need a decent explanation. Thinking back to Season 1 and 2, I feel the final product was not successful to make her likeable.
Think when she was in the Charon pointing her laser at Michael. A silly last second “I can’t do it” changed the whole argument about the dangerous Emperor that she really was. Not sure if this is because of the script, the directors, or the producers….perhaps the limited time or dislike for slower scenes…but her portrayal is so cartoonish, not to be taken seriously. If the whole season is with so much passion and intensity, the goofy decisions of Mirror Georgiou ruin the harmony of the story.
Wish she goes back to rescue her prime corpse and revive her somehow. Prime Georgiou was more natural. I am still mourning Prime Georgiou, from the scenes from the pilot.
If they resucitate Prime Phillippa, based on her experience with death (or close to death) and knowing what happened, she could be a stronger character with a heavy background to become more unique and powerful.
Before Section 31 goes into production, I really hope they work on these issues. Yeoh is great, I can’t wait to see what they do with Section 31. =)
I’m said this time and again: I’m still not looking forward to Section 31 with Emperor Georgiou in front and center. Yeoh is a great actress but they messed up that character beyond repair. It’s Khan joining Section 31 all over again. You cannot have Hitler or Stalin joining MI:6 or the CIA, no matter from which universe they are.
However, your speculation on time travel sounds interesting. What if this show is about the Temporal Cold War or something like that with various incarnations of Section 31 being all part of the game: Reed (22nd century), Tyler (23rd century), Bashir (24th century), Oh (early 25th century), Daniels / Future Guy (29th century) or Braxton (31th century) might appear at some point. The time travel aspect is what makes this concept sound interesting for the very first time…
Garth Lorca.This is a brilliant plot. And Georgiou can be part of the equation too, sure they can fix it. With so much reviews from fans, I have faith they will.
The producers love Yeoh. She also have fans from all over the world. With all this time because of the virus, I really hope they have found a way to make her character better.
I want her for Section 31, but they need to do serious work to reboot her story. =)
Jay I love Yeoh because of Crazy Rich Asians. Her character needs to be better. She should be more than just a tyrannical space Hitler.
Her story needs some reform or a reboot like you said.
Faze Ninja, she is a LOT more than Crazy Rich Asians. A lot more! She is an international super star. She has over 45 films. CBS, Alex Kurtzman and his team are honored to have her in their team.
I really hope they pull Section 31 to her level of magic, talent, and fame!
The more I think about it…
OMG… Georgiou could be Future Guy :-)
Maybe they change the story, again, but it seems the “Future Guy” was Archer himself. In 2012, Brannon Braga tweeted that Archer was trying to fix history, repair a corrupt future. =)
I share your concerns. Michelle Yeoh is an amazing actress but her character needs to be written better.
I liked Prime Georgiou a lot. Unfortunately, she was eaten by some hairless Klingon cannibals. Mirror Georgiou was a good idea but she should have stayed in that universe.
Taking her along for the ride and making her join Section 31 was beyond me, almost as bad as those red-eyed nazi aliens suddenly popping up at the end of ENT S3… The mirror arc on DSC was brilliant, the Xindi arc on ENT was brilliant, and then, all of a sudden, they “surprise” the viewers with a totally bogus decision.
Well, you can make Intendant Kira the next Grand Nagus, you can turn Janeway into the new Borg Queen and you can turn Wesley into Archer’s time travelling granddad Gary Seven, but the question is whether you SHOULD. And what they’ve done with Mirror Georgiou is exactly that: one bridge too far… Same with KT Khan…
Totally agree Garth Lorca. Not the best course of action. I have said preciously, it seems these writers have no time to polish the stories. With so many deadlines, between green light and filming, must be chaos for creative.
I personally enjoyed Storm Front. Part 2’s teaser with the “Hitler touring conquered New York” newsreel was very effective and unsettling.
Am I the only one having problems with that “revelation” that people are having sex on the holodeck? It’s quite logical that holographic technology could be used that way and I would expect this to be going on in Quark’s commercial holosuites for sure or at pleasure sites like Risa or Freecloud.
But the idea that Starfleet personell are regularly engaged in active simulations like this is truly disturbing to say the least. I would expect Starfleet to set up a code of conduct to prevent the “abuse” of holodecks for “adult” purposes, which I don’t consider very “adult” at all.
Sex is a normal part of an adult’s life. Starfleet is an exploratory and defense organization, not a monastery. Some Starfleet members may have families on board or back home. Others may start relationships with fellow crew members. The holodeck would be a third option. That doesn’t automatically mean people do nasty stuff to holo characters that would get them arrested if they did it to a real person. As a fourth option they could bang a local on any planet the ship visits. What you prefer that?
Options one and probably two are indeed “normal”… Options three and four however, I know, that sort of behaviour is normal for a certain group of people but there is that monsterous voice deep within my mind and soul, an amok-running conscience, and Uber-Ich of epic proportions, that tells me that I have to feel bad about it, anywhere, in any situation I’m confronted with that truth, no matter whether it’s pop culture or real-life situations. It’s like a safety protocol I cannot switch off, an automated self-destructive mechanism that keeps me from being at peace with any sort of promiscuity. It’s easily triggered by the smallest throw-away line. I simply stop working whenever this happens. And the closer the context is to me emotionally (e.g. Star Trek), the more I’m unable to regain control of myself.
It’s not even a rational opinion, it’s an emotional Kraken pulling be towards a mental abyss. I cannot have what I might actually want because I’m obliged to wait for something I don’t want at all.
People could be going back to the same holo character every time so it doesn’t have to be promiscuous.
You’re absolutely right. And even if not, it’s their prerogative to do what ever they want within those simulations. It’s (still) fiction after all, and as soon as we’ll have VR adult entertainment of that quality in our near future, it’ll be a part of media reality pretty soon.
It’s not an educated, enlightened opinion on my part, it’s pure, self-destructive emotions that keep me from embracing the inevitable. Relentless shame, absolute timidity, trembling uptightness whenever I am exposed to that subject matter to even the smallest degree.
Rationally speaking, you are all right. It is a natural part of life and has been for eternity.
But my sexual autism keeps me from being a human adult. I’m like a shy and confused twelve-year-old buried alive in an adult’s body, marooned in pseudomoral ado for all eternity. Heck, even most twelve-year-olds could handle this in a far more souvereign way.
That’s why I’d have to limit my media diet to PG material but that’s not any easy task given my general love for that genre.
By any chance, you didn’t use a different handle here named Smike did you? This sounds slightly familiar to another poster who use to post here.
And Star Trek is really rated PG 90% of the time, at least when it comes to sex, It’s mostly just referenced most of the time. You might see people in bed but they are always pretty covered and kissing only. Now that its on streaming sites the language has gotten a bit stronger but that’s really it. I mean we still haven’t seen a woman’s boobs or anything in 50 years..well OK we did saw L’rell’s for a second but I really really don’t count that….at least not as anything arousing lol.
I have to say, I don’t see it as something disturbing or bad. For single people on a starship, it could be a very healthy outlet.
I know my feelings towards this subject matter is quite different from others, and probably not very healthy either. I’ve been caught in a vicious circle of baseless morality all my life and thus I have absolutely no experience in that field. My religious maternal upbringing has created an absolute, dictatorial mandate deep within my mind that makes me criticize any sort of promiscuity almost like a natural reflex. That Uber-Ich tells me that the only form of legit sexuality is within life-long marriage, primarily for reproductive purposes. That voice tells me that I have to wait for the right one to share that experience.
Here it becomes downright bizarre, because I’m not even looking for “the right one” or any relationship at all. I haven’t done so in decades. I don’t want to be married or engaged in any sort of true love tale. But I cannot have the other forms of sex either due to my repressed mindset.
And it’s not just my own lack of experience that bothers me. Any confrontation with that subject matter activates some sort of hypermoral cytokine storm that forces me to feel bad about any form of promiscuity in media, be it a rap song, a newspaper article or a one-liner from Lower Decks. I simply cannot deal with “it”… If being able to handle this issue is part of what it means to be an adult, then I simply am and always shall be an overgrown 12-year-old for the rest of my life.
I’m so sorry about bothering you with those issues.
You know that Barcly was having sex with the hologram versions of Troi and Crusher. While having sex with holograms of real people is wrong, it’s fine with computer created characters. I’m sure it happens all the time, and it’s healthy. Didn’t Janeway once say that they don’t view a person’s holodeck history because of privacy? I’m sure it’s fine. There might be some red flags programmed in the holodeck that if a person starts raping or murdering hologram characters it notifies command.
People need to have sex. It’s totally fine. But gross at the same time lol
“People need to have sex. It’s totally fine. But gross at the same time lol”
That would make it a “necessary evil”… However, I cannot subscribe to the idea of giving in to that urge. Yes, it’s a simulation, but that takes us right into the subject of A.I. rights that has been dealt with on Trek in other contexts time and again. The problem is: I have no issues with other contexts, not even fictional battles, murder etc… That has always been part of Trek. But when it comes to sex, I am stuck in my personal echo chamber I cannot leave or overcome. I totally hate that state but working against it, makes it even worse.
Well, I envy those who aren’t in an emotional state like this and who can enjoy life as a whole. I’m never gonna be whole the way most people are because I stand apart, like a Vulcan or android wrapped in some state of automated Anti-PonFarr for eternity, being forced to display his Anti-Horga’hn by a powerful voice inside my head that even threatens to destroy God himself if he dared to forgive the sinners…
Curiously enough, none of the other “deadly sins” have that mind-bending effect on me… not wrath and anger, not envy and jealousy, not pride and lordliness, not gluttony and egomania, not laziness and slothfullness, not greed and avarice, although most of these very “real” shortcomings have had a very negative effect on my life…
But no, the only transgression my mind scapegoats everything on it, is sexual salaciousness as an isolated and from my POV very, very “unreal”, intangible supersin not even God himself could forgive without being annihilated by an even stronger force of tormenting Antisexuality. It’s something I cannot touch at all, when it pops up in a conversation it takes away my speech, overshadowing any joy that others might see in it.
Looking at it, thinking about it has the same effect as that haunting Admonition had on those poor Romulans on PIC. Crazy!
“You know that Barcly was having sex with the hologram versions of Troi and Crusher.”
Even though I am a 100% fine using the holodeck for sex (and I would definitely be doing the same lol) this has always bothered me. I think that is a violation of privacy in a way. I think at the very least there would be some type of debate about it and how ethical it is. You’re right, on one hand it is just a simulation. But on the other, these holodecks are designed to not just take a person’s image, but their personality and personal history as well, so you’re getting the essence of a person and while its not THEM per se, it still could feel like a violation.
Here is a great 21st century example. If someone took a photo of you and rendered it in a 3D image on a porn site and have it having sex with others where people were masturbating to it, I’m pretty sure that person would feel violated and could even sue to get it taken down. At the very least my guess is there would probably need to be permissions of what your likeness can be used for.
But yes I always assumed Barclay was at least being physical with them like kissing if not full on sex. Its funny they didn’t seem really all that offended by it but my guess is if the holodeck is no holds bar its just something they are just use to by the 24th century. And that’s one thing I have always liked about Star Trek and while its rarely talked about, no one is hung up about sex at all. Risa is basically just one big planet brothel and everyone is fine with it (except that one horrible DS9 episode ;)). And I can’t think of a single episode anywhere people had an issue with someone having sex because my guess by then the whole ‘morality’ part would not be like it is today, especially interacting with so many other aliens who sees sex as just as important but common as breathing and eating and nothing more.
So maybe I could be wrong and they wouldn’t see it as an issue of their likeness being used for sex the way I’m looking at it from a 21st century POV. Maybe they just don’t really care anymore. But I still think there could be certain measures in place, especially when you are on the same ship with these people.
I don’t think that was as disturbing as Edward Larkin “infusing” the Tribbles with his “DNA” to cause them to breed faster. Especially when the end of the short features little girls gobbling down his “macronutrients”.
Uh no. I always assumed sex was happening in the holodeck and this was when I started watching TNG at the ripe age of 12. I mean look at porn, its all over the internet now. One day when VR becomes a more practical thing I can only imagine how sex will be shaped to fit that tech. The day we do have real holodecks, well, yeah, it will just carry over as well.
And to me this is the most healthy way of having sex when you are so far from a spouse or single and you are on a starship thousands of light years from anywhere. Trying to have a relationship with someone on a star ship is probably pretty limiting and there is only so many times you can get to Risa every year. ;)
I’m sure there are SOME protocols in place like you can’t have sex with likeness of crew members, etc but there is nothing disturbing about it. Holodecks are basically meant for people’s fantasies, sex would definitely be up there. I mean if you can simulate things like murder in a holodeck, I don’t know why sex would be any more disturbing?
Please link to a direct mp3 download like Shuttle Pod does. It makes it easier for those of us who don’t subscribe to a streaming service to listen. I fill up a USB stick with podcasts for my car, for example. Thanks.
Hi. We have had to stop doing this (same for the Shuttle Pod) because it has been causing bandwidth issues. Sorry! Hope you find another way to listen that works for you. A lot of the streaming services allow you to download podcasts to your phone vs. streaming them as you listen.