‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Producers And Stars On What’s Next For Captain Burnham And Season Four

In a series of post-season finale interviews, Star Trek: Discovery co-showrunners and stars Sonequa Martin-Green and Doug Jones have been talking about what’s next for the series in season four, which is currently in production.

Captain Burnham’s arc

The final scenes of “The Hope That is You, Part 2” showed Michael Burnham finally ascend to the rank of captain to take command of the USS Discovery. Co-showrunner Michelle Paradise talked to TV Insider about Michael’s arc in season three:

We knew we wanted to get Burnham to the captain’s chair at the end of the season, so a big question was, if that’s where we want to get her to at the end, where should she begin and how far away from that can we take her? We wanted to give her the best arc possible, so in that moment, in Episode 3, where [Saru and Michael are] having that conversation, she declines the chair, and even she, in that moment, recognizes that Saru is the right individual to have the chair because of the way he leads, because he has already led them there and it’s not something that Burnham is ready for.

Alex Kurtzman talked to Gold Derby about how Michael’s arc in every season informs her being a captain going forward:

Burnham has really struggled through every season with… first I am supposed to be this person, and then the Vulcans show me I am supposed to be this person, and Starfleet tells me I am supposed to be this person. So, she is trying to be all these different things. I think Burnham, up until the ending [of season three], has been kind of been thinking, ‘I have to pick a lane.’ And it isn’t until she gets to the end of the season that she realizes, ‘I can be both of those things, and I can hold space for both of those things and that’s what is actually going to define me as a captain.’ And so now her next adventure is going to be: What does it now meaning to hold both of those things as captain? Because usually, a captain is kind of one or the other.

On The Ready Room, Sonequa Martin-Green talked about how it felt that first time she sat in the chair:

We all understood what the moment meant. We were all kind of, ‘This is deep, this is really, really deep.’ We all knew. There was a mixture. There were things I was feeling as Sonequa… but also what it represents to have a black woman in that chair, for the people who love this franchise and the people that have had it in their lives for generations. And also for the people who are here anew. It means a lot to see that… There are these captains in the history of this franchise, and they have done so much, and they have had such an impact. and there is something to be said for this position. There is such respect for that position.

In an interview with Vulture, Sonequa Martin-Green talked about if Burnham’s insubordination in season three was a hint of her possibly “going rogue” as captain:

Well, that’s a big question of season four and beyond: How is Burnham going to take everything she has learned and apply it to her captaincy? In the beginning, the insubordination comes from Burnham believing that she is serving the needs of the many. She’s willing to give it all up — her career, her freedom — because she thinks she’s saving everyone. She learns that’s not the way to do it; you’re not supposed to operate as an island. But there is still this sense of leadership, this forward thinking that Burnham has, that does compel her to go against the grain and suffer this sort of necessary resistance to that, to learn the lessons that have to come with that thinking.

Sonequa Martin-Green as Captain Burnham in “The Hope That is You, Part 2”

Rebuilding the Federation continues…

On The Ready Room, Michelle Paradise talked about how the work on rebuilding the Federation will continue into season four:

When we end the [third] season, a lot has been accomplished. Our heroes, lead by Burnham, have discovered the source of The Burn. They have been able to give those answers to everyone. And also in the process, they have discovered this massive source of dilithium, which we know from the very end, they are about head off into a journey and start delivering that. So certainly the Federation is in much better shape because of our heroes’ journey than it was at the very beginning, but I think there is a long way to go. Certainly rebuilding the Federation and finding out what the Federation is anew is not something that accomplished in one season. As we know from the end when Burnham is taking the crew to start this journey, there is work to be done. I’m confident they will do that work. I am confident they will find their way together… The Federation is in much better shape, but there is a ways to go, but we’ve got Burnham at the helm and an awesome crew and team of people so they’ll get on and do some stuff.

Speaking to TV Insider, Paradise also made it clear that they are staying in the 32nd century:

I don’t expect [the crew trying to return to the 23rd century]. All of them know going into that at the end of Season 2, this is a one-way trip. Now that they are here, we’re not looking to go back.

Martin-Green talked to Vulture about how she will lead this effort in season four as captain:

It was very hard for me and this crew to introduce those original ideals of the Federation, hope and connection, to this future. So it’s not going to be just, you know, boom, boom, pow. It’s going to be a difficult journey ahead, but it is a worthy fight… I think the death of Osyraa, everything that happened, including Burnham sitting in that chair, is the beginning, yes. The finale is very much the beginning. We are not done at all.

Oded Fehr as Admiral Vance in “There Is A Tide…”

Saru’s journey in season four

With Michael now firmly in the captain’s chair, it does raise questions regarding Saru’s role in season four, but  Michelle Paradise confirmed he will be back:

[Saru] will definitely be back in season four. We were concerned people would be afraid that Saru would not be coming back, but it is part of why he talks about going to Kaminar right now to be with Su’Kal. So hopefully it comes across that he will be coming back in season four.

On The Ready Room Doug Jones speculated on Saru’s future:

Saru really wants to take this opportunity because he wants to go home too. His nostalgia has got the better of him. Now here is a Kelpien who needs a big brother type, so Saru takes that role on happily… Is it difficult to return to a ship that you had captained and be a subordinate? Is there some connection to Kaminar now? Oh, maybe ambassador Saru, for Kaminar to the Federation, one day. There are many options and many places we can go with it and I am looking forward to that, what is ahead.

Doug Jones as Saru and Bill Irwin as Su’Kal in “The Hope That is You, Part 2”

Season four will pick up on storylines for Stamets, Gray, Book, and Tilly too

The season finale made it clear that one member of the crew who was not happy with Michael was Paul Stamets, still upset over how Burnham removed him from the Discovery as he was trying to save Hugh. Martin-Green confirmed this story will not be ignored in season four:

Yeah, we don’t leave stones unturned. If it’s introduced, it’s going to be dealt with. Who knows how long it’ll take, but one of the things I’m grateful for with this show and this character is that you see this well-rounded woman make these deep moral mistakes and miss the mark.

In her TV Insider interview Michelle Paradise indicated Stamets will get over it:

Obviously, he’s gutted at the idea he can’t go back in that specific moment to rescue Culber and Adira and Saru, but because Burnham has a bit more distance, she understands, but she also knows that the Federation is at stake, everything that means, everything they’ve built is in danger if they don’t solve the problem here and now. Ultimately he’s going to understand that she was doing what she needed to do in the moment and the thing he couldn’t do.

Paradise also confirmed some other storylines that will be picked up in season four:

We will absolutely follow up [Gray being seen] in Season 4. That storyline is incredibly important to us…

It was really fun to watch those two [Michael and Book] come together and grow together and I expect we’ll be seeing more of them in Season 4…

[Saru] sees strength in [Tilly] she doesn’t quite see in herself necessarily and then watching her over the course of the season become more confident in herself to the place where she’s ultimately able to serve as Number One and then no one sees it coming but having to essentially be acting captain in this crisis situation and she handles herself beautifully. What does that mean to come is I’m sure a question she’ll be asking herself and we’ll be exploring in Season 4.

The Discovery crew gathered at the end of “The Hope That is You, Part 2”

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I don’t suppose they could change the uniforms ahead of Season 4… the crew look like they’ve raided Kim Jong Il’s wardrobe.

I love SMG and perhaps it was because she was with baby when sitting on the Captain’s Chair, but I’d suggest a different way of sitting – I think all of the other captains crossed their legs and looked much more at ease whereas Burnham looks a bit for want of a better word intimidated.

Finally, it’s too late to change this but calling episodes the same thing as parts 1 & 2 with numerous episodes in between wasn’t thought out that well.

There we go… my moans on minutiae. Bigger messes of this series will only work me up lol.

I kind of like the uniforms. Anything is better than the band uniforms from the first 3 seasons. They were totally out of place from a visual continuity perspective, made better with the Enterprise variant. So, for me, these are an improvement. My favorite will always be TNG Season 3 though.

I think that the new uniforms are promising.

The cut is definitely accommodating of a lot of different figure types which is something any good uniform should do in any time period. I suspect Gersha Phillips will be tweaking them for S4, especially given the long production hiatus due to Covid.

The blue uniforms were well cut but never worked as well in the original blue as in the colourful versions done for the Enterprise in S2. Somehow, the colourful versions look good on just about everyone, which is why they’ve taken off for use by fans.

Last thought. Perhaps Discovery will need an interior update to match the new bright Federation norm we saw throughout S3? The colour of the new uniforms just seems to work better in the 32nd century spaces. I’ve noticed a few comments about that on other boards.

The Discovery uniforms from seasons 1-3 were hideous. They were far too blingy (seriously, does the Starfleet crest need to be on everything), far too tight (which give rise to the ridiculous “Mary Wiseman is fat” memes, but they’re weren’t particularly flattering on any but the most lanky physique), you couldn’t tell the divisional colors apart, the officer’s rank was hidden on micro-dots on the combadge, etc.

I like the minimalism of the new uniforms. They might have done better to use black, rather than gray, but that’s a minor point.

I’m glad they are getting rid of the old uniforms, which contributed to the overly frenetic aesthetic of the first three seasons.

Rank is even more hidden now because the new badges are so shiny.

Rank also appears on the new collar devices

Yes same. The original uniforms were just bad. They were sooooo busy and just ugly IMO. I never got use to them and finally one of the last of the big changes many fans wanted to see gone.

I will be curious to see how SNW handles it since that will be the only show that takes place in the 23rd century for a long time and basically replacing Discovery in that period. Will we continue to see the Discovery uniforms then or will they just eliminate them all and stick with just the TOS style from that point on. I hope the latter and (of course) it would make sense canon wise anyway.

Kim Jong Il’s wardrobe”, lol!!!

The Federation is a socialist state, so it is appropriate.

North Korea is a Communist regime. Typical uneducated comment, thinking Socialism and Communism are the same (they’re not)

They are both stupid though.

There are no perfect people. Only perfect ideals.

And a utopia. Go figure

Yeah, they look a bit cheap, even Babylon 5ish.

I think a lot of that had to do with having a smaller budget. There may have been a thought that this could be the last season; the way the finale was shot made it feel as though it could be a series finale.

I’m fairly sure Season 4 was confirmed long ago.

They’re the Neutrals from Futurama.

If I don’t survive, tell my wife I said hello.

I think all of the other captains crossed their legs and looked much more at ease whereas Burnham looks a bit for want of a better word intimidated.

I mean she had literally just taken the chair for the first time so I think it’s okay to feel a little intimidated ;-)

Absolutely. She was no doubt intimidated as hell after all she’s been through to get there.

I hate the uniforms, too; I think they’re ugly and unflattering.

I was sorry that Burnham didn’t feel for that burr under the arm of the captain’s chair, as her ongoing connection to Prime Georgiou…

Those uniforms are dreadful.

Love the new uniforms, myself.


The new uniforms are so unflattering, it is strange. All of them look like if their uniforms are two numbers too big, even though they are quite form-fitting (if not as much as the old ones)

They’re the Neutrals from Futurama.

This season really lost me. The character work and acting remain strong, but the “Michael Burnham is the only hope and savior” trope was on steroids this season. Celebrating the loss of a savage emperor transplant as if she were more beloved than her prime counterpart, the total reimagining of the Guardian as a sentient, and mobile being and not a machine… to making Burnham the reason for Spock’s growth in the entire franchise, and not himself and not the relationship he jad with his crew was too much. This show jumped the shark this season, and I’m not happy about it.

I don’t think the Guardian was so much reimagined as extrapolated. From “The City On The Edge Of Forever”:

SPOCK: This single object is the source of all the time displacement.
KIRK: Explain.
SPOCK: I can’t. For this to do what it does is impossible by any science I understand. It is operating even now. Putting out waves and waves of time displacement, which we picked up millions of miles away.
UHURA: Landing party to Enterprise. No sign of Doctor McCoy. Search progressing.
(And he pops up from behind a rock after she and her security guard have passed by.)
SPOCK: Incredible power. It can’t be a machine as we understand mechanics.
KIRK: Then what is it?
GUARDIAN: (The doughnut pulses bright in time with the words) A question. Since before your sun burned hot in space and before your race was born, I have awaited a question.
KIRK: What are you?
GUARDIAN: I am the Guardian of Forever.
KIRK: Are you machine or being?
GUARDIAN: I am both and neither. I am my own beginning, my own ending.
SPOCK: I see no reason for answers to be couched in riddles.
GUARDIAN: I answer as simply as your level of understanding makes possible.
SPOCK: A time portal, Captain. A gateway to other times and dimensions, if I’m correct.
GUARDIAN: As correct as possible for you. Your science knowledge is obviously primitive.
SPOCK: Really.
KIRK: Annoyed, Spock?
GUARDIAN: Behold. A gateway to your own past, if you wish.

The Guardian of Forever is in essence God. Yet another reason to not have made STV. Kirk already found him.

I think we all know that it had a science based explanation. This writing staff ignores the original characterization of the Guardian.. turns it into a ‘What if’ machine on top of it. Or it allowed the mirror timeline to be altered. It can do all that it did in this version of the show, which defies what we knew about it. They could have easily made it something different, but similar.. but they can’t help themselves. They lack imagination, and like JJ just want to invoke nostalgia. Forge a new path. Give us new and exciting stuff, and honor what came before. They don’t understand Trek. They just don’t.

please don’t tell me “what we all know”

you probably don’t appreciate that you are attempting to be a “gatekeeper” about a literal gateway.

Especially, as some of us, including the writers, know what Ellison had included in the original story for the City on the Edge of Forever.

Guardians as humanoidish beings, multiple Guardians. Check. It’s all there.

In fact, so is a first pass concept of a mirror universe of a sort.

So, perhaps a bit more research might be in order Heyberto before making a “we all know” generalization.

The original script or any other such thing that did not make it to the final product doesn’t mean a thing. What appears on screen is what matters. Just because Zemeckis and Gale writing Back to the Future originally wanted to make the time machine a refrigerator doesn’t mean we can magically change the DeLorean to a fridge if someone wanted to pick up the story.

Regardless… Heyberto still makes a very good point. And statements like “we all know” don’t bother me in the slightest. Most realize the comment is subjective. No need to get all English teacher-y about it.

I agree and they will continue to bulldoze everything going forward

Less extrapolated and more ruined. It worked better when it was pure mystery. Plus, it’s such a tremendous power that it would have been wise to just forget about it completely. But this group are not ones to let wisdom get in the way of fan service.

No they very clearly made it into a sentient being.

The uniforms are better in this new style/color, kind of a cross between the ST:TMP & TWOK uniforms. Perhaps the base color could be changed to black from gray and keep the branch color accents the same. The new rank badges (collar & shoulder) may not show up on black but they could go back to the gold “rings” on the sleeves as an homage to TOS.
These are just my opinions/observation based on my fascination with the uniforms of Trek since I first saw the show in 1966 as a child and my 18+ years in the military. Overall, ST:D had to come up with totally new concept for uniforms to depart from the other series as evident with their blue uniforms when it started. As we should see that ST:SNW will have the (almost) same TOS styling when we next see Capt Pike & crew. I have to admit I am not a fan of those blues suits either but many of our fellow friends are because they purchased a blue outfit.

This has to be the first Trek series where we do not know who the Second Officer is. All that talk about who will be Number One after Burnham got canned, the existing Number Two, whoever it was, never came up.

As a matter of fact we don’t even know for sure who the chief medical officer is…
(all we know is it wasn’t Culber in S1… but maybe that has changed… or maybe Pollard has been CMO all along… guess we’ll never know for sure)

We don’t know who the Chief Engineer is either.

Stamet’s is a Scientist, not an Engineer. Yet the show treats him as both, depending on the plot. Reno would make the most sense as Chief Engineer, since that was her former job on the USS Hiawatha. But since her transfer to Discovery, her role has never been clearly defined.

Reno seems to be, particularly based on the scene where she complained about power being transferred from engines to the Spore Drive Lab. Second Officer appeared to be Nilson….until Burnham took command and beamed over to the seed ship leaving Rhys in command. Very confusing chain of command – but I will say I actually appreciate that the show puts more focus on clear career paths and that rank or bridge officer status need not lead to a command position.

We pretty much don’t know who ANY of the senior officers are. Hell, many don’t even know who the bridge crew is.

We have not known who any of the key officers are. All the Captains are either dead or abandon their post (sorry, Pike is awesome, but he kinda ditched Discovery to go back to the Enterprise before it went into the future. Not sure a Captain should do that. For Canon purposes, he has no choice, but still, they should have thought about that before writing themselves into a hole). So rotating and temporary captains, and first officers, no chief of engineering, no chief medical officer. Rather than Lower Decks this is kinda Middle Ranks… ST:MR.

I’m not at all happy about the fact that the removed Saru as captain. Saru is easily the most interesting character in the series, and watching him learn how to command has been one of its best character arcs.

I think the character of Saru is a great character, however, I do not see him as an effective Captain. He is a bit soft at times. I realize he is finding his place as Captain, but he is inconsistent. He justifiably comes down hard on Burnham (as he should, He said in season 1 he does not trust her, that trust was earned back, but lost again), yet he makes Tilly second in command, Really? She is was a joke the first 2 seasons. Barclay from TNG days on steroids, and would anyone EVER put him in command of anything? Sure they reconned him for VOYAGER, but that never really worked. He was always from the Island of Misfit Toys.

Yeah… Saru’s only mistake was making Tilly the 2nd officer. Other than that he was growing into the position pretty well. And it was interesting watching him learn it. On the other hand, Burnham disobeys orders, disrespects her commander, learns nothing and gets the Captain’s chair out of it.

was okay when kirk did it. also burnham is sort of out of kirks timeframe, so this behaviour would be natural for her. and the admiral was impressed, you know like some people today still like john wayne

Kirk didn’t disrespect his superiors. The only time I can think of was Mr. Baris. And that was done for comedic purposes. And when Kirk disobeyed orders he was in a far better position to do so. A starship captain working remotely has a lot of say in how things go. And that was mostly understood by the brass. But if Kirk had a Lt. who was always undermining him and doing her own thing… I seriously don’t see Kirk letting such an officer get away with it. No mater what timeframe Burnham was in it really shouldn’t matter. Perhaps 900 years later the chain of command isn’t nearly as stringent. But in general most are unimpressed when subordinates don’t do what they are told. Even when those subordinates are proved to be right. That does not excuse the behavior.

Kirk led a group of his officers to steal the freaking Enterprise after expressly being told by the Commander of Starfleet to back down. He has a long and sordid history of disrespecting his superiors?????

I was thinking in the show. In the features, that was a biggie. But you mentioned ONE time and then followed it up with “he has a long and sordid history”. One time is hardly a “long history”. From what we have seen, Burnham has done it more times in this short season alone than Kirk did in three LONG seasons.

I agree. Burnham should have had to work her ass off to get back onto the bridge, let alone a senior officer. People don’t commit mutiny and then become captain of the most advanced ship in Starfleet. That is the principal problem I have with Discovery. Burnham’s story is not believable. Saru is by far the best choice for Captain and also the most interesting character on the show and one of the most interesting characters in the history of Star Trek. The shows treatment of his character at the end of this season was incredibly disappointing.

Weirdly I think this season of Trek has the most talk of uniforms than any other iteration of Trek. Even when TMP gave them PJ’s didn’t seem to have the holding power this season did.

The people running this show really are clueless to an embarrassing level.

Here’s a suggestion then, stop watching it.

That response shows a lack of understanding of “fandom”.

What’s up with Tilly’s uniform? In the picture, she is wearing red, but on the broadcast she is wearing blue.

I re-watched the broadcast and there was one red, one white, three blue, and 1,723,915 yellow.

She needs to work on her body posture. It is not right for a captain. The “neck forward” stance is not the right one for someone in charge of others.

On another note; I hate the reason they created for the “Burn”. A child screaming about the death of it’s mother? Really? After all that buildup? How about an initial strike from an intelligence outside the galaxy to weaken any warp-capable races in our galaxy before they arrive. Wouldn’t have that been more fun?


Yeah, the “burn” should’ve been something more grand.

Really not getting why folks aren’t seeing the high science fiction concept in this arc.

This season was focused on the need to understand, accept and move beyond trauma.

Totally makes sense that the origin of the Burn was the externalization of a traumatic experience that an individual wasn’t ready to deal with.

It’s interesting how people’s concept of what makes a “grand” science fiction concept has changed in the last 60 years…or perhaps not at all.

The 1950s movie Forbidden Planet, which Roddenberry acknowledged as a major inspiration for TOS, involves a planet where a shipwrecked man’s ID acts out in the real world. Forbidden Planet itself was an adaptation of Shakespeare’s play The Tempest. One can see a good deal of both in Su’Kal’s story and the Burn.

More, the EPs have acknowledged that Su’Kal’s tale was inspired by an Ursula K. LeGuin short story. Others have reached back to Plato’s “The Cave.”

After all the criticism of Discovery as being “too pew pew” , this season gives us as cerebral an underlying plot as “The Cage”, but it seems it’s “too cerebral” or something to be appreciated by many.

I guess we’re back to Gary and Jim in a ripped shirt battle as the benchmark.

so what stops another traumatic experience occurring to him that causes the burn to happen again? I wouldn’t want to piss him off, that’s for sure. A bit like Charlie X or Trelane.

If Georgiou were still around, she would have killed him to eliminate the threat. oF course Burnham would intervene and save him and all three would have hugged and had a good cry.

Please pay attention before you start to whine. It was plainly stated that removing him from the Dilitium planet would stop the possibility of a future burn. Don’t blame bad listening for bad writing.

Remember Kevin Uxbridge? the guy who killed all the Hoosnok with a single thought?
yeah, it’s like that

It was plainly stated they thought removing him from the planet would stop it. What makes Culber (or anyone else form Disco) an expert to make that assumption? Culber isn’t even chief medical officer. If he wasn’t a star of the show, he would be a red shirt.

I guess we’re back to Gary and Jim in a ripped shirt battle as the benchmark.”

Naaaaaa, I think “Rick” and I were (using his appropriate word) expecting something more “grand”…

Yeah, people have been complaining that Star Trek has become “too militaristic” for years, so what do they do when the pay off to a mystery isn’t some kind of invasion or space battle? Complain…sigh.

I think that is a tremendous stretch to give credence to bad plotting. But if that is what you saw then more power to you. I think it atrocious to put this show in the same category as Forbidden Planet. And yes, many saw The Tempest in that film. But that film had something Discovery didn’t and never will. Competent writers who seemed to know exactly what they were doing.

They did have less “pew pew” this story arc than the other two. But that doesn’t mean they were successful and creating something “cerebral”. Their concept just had far too many holes in it. Further, the overall plot was not good enough nor were the characters interesting enough to overcome those failures.

And yet you’re logged in to this site discussing a show you have told us is lacking “competent writers”, has “too many holes” and characters that aren’t “interesting enough.” If all that’s the case, don’t you have something better to do?

The times when I come here, no. I do not have something better to do. Does that bother you?

No, it wouldn’t have been “more fun.” Enough with the war stories. The “child screaming about its death of it’s [sic] mother” was reminiscent of “The Survivors” and “Future Imperfect,” both excellent TNG episodes.

Oh, I’m just disappointed as I was expecting something more Earth-shattering… Didn’t have to be war, that was just off the top of my head.

I was just expecting something a little “meatier” (for me personally) than what was done.

Well your initial “grand” suggestion sounded so much like the cuthulu-like AIs in the S1 finale of Picard that I took it for sarcasm. 😉

Let’s all just hope for better things with the next season…

The problem is some of us have been saying this for the last 3 seasons, when is it truly gonna improve? and how much more can we hope for better things another season?

But don’t you think its improved at least a little? I know it’s all just personal opinions, but I don’t know how people who hated the first season (and I one of them) can’t say they at least see a marked difference at this point?

I have made this clear, I know the show still isn’t close to perfect and definitely has a lot of writing issues, but the tone, setting and characters have all improved IMO. If you still don’t like Michael, OK, but I will also say tons of new characters have came into the fold people do seem to really like in both seasons 2 and 3.

I think sadly Discovery will remain a pretty divisive show for a lot of people no matter what they do seeing as it’s easily the most retooled show in Trek’s history to the point it’s no longer in its original setting or even premise and some people still don’t see it as a legitimate Trek show.

For me, I think each season has improved at least. Now that’s not saying a WHOLE lot since I still don’t love the show or anything, but it’s something. But I will also say what probably keeps the show from breaking out is that every finale up to now has been pretty divisive in itself. Like the seasons themselves, I feel they all improved over the last but none of them have been great and still poorly written in one way or the other IMO.

That’s probably the main issue, the show just doesn’t feel like it sticks to landing even if the stories overall are stronger. They just don’t seem like they can really tell a full and satisfying serialized story, at least not as well as they did with Enterprise and certainly with DS9, not only the first Trek show to attempt it, but the only one that told a single story for multiple seasons.

Maybe if they abandon all the the big end-of-galaxy story lines and mystery boxes in season 4 and just more standalone episodes more people could get on board.

Don’t get me wrong, I like DS9 very much. I even wrote some DS9 fan fiction many years ago. But as far as I remember many people were unhappy with how the Dominion War was resolved. So it seems that even DS9 had problems sticking the landing.
And I’m not sure if this is just my opinion or shared by others but I found that many of the small mini-arcs in ENT season 4 started promisingly but I was often disappointed by the end.

I second the wish for a story line with smaller stakes but I don’t have high hopes.

But I don’t think it was divisive the way Discovery is though. Yeah some people were disappointed, but that’s natural when you’re trying to wrap up a 5 year story arc that involved literally over 40 characters.

Discovery has what, 13-14 episodes a year basically and one season stories and they still manage to badly fumble it by the end. And of course I also have to include Picard in that which was only 10 episodes in its first season and it probably was the most poor ending out of the two shows depending on you talk to and just how hyped that show was from the beginning.

I have to agree with a lot of people here and say the people who are writing for these shows now just doesn’t seem to know how to write satisfying serialized story arcs. They all start off really strong and positive but end in a whimper.

Tiger2, Discovery isn’t in the Sponge Bob, Mandalorian or Cobra Kai ratings stratosphere, but it’s hardly credible to claim that it “hasn’t taken off” .

It made the top ten original streaming series for the US every week it was released in season three. It’s demand compared to average series in its category runs around 34 times pretty consistently.

It’s also around 15th globally for original streaming series over the entire year of 2020.

So it’s solid and a bankable product for ViacomCBS in a sea of Netflix and Amazon shows.

TG47, I didn’t mean in terms of ratings, I was talking about in terms of overall fan acceptance and/or perceived quality (or lack there of). I said ‘break out’ meaning it hasn’t become a beloved show yet, that’s all.

I have no idea about how its doing in the ratings or streaming these days and honestly really don’t care. Clearly it’s doing enough to keep getting renewed, so yeah. But I’ll take your word for it of course.

Well, like you said every season seems to be two steps forward and one step back. I am still waiting for them go whole way forward.

Fair enough. Again if people just think the show sucks, then it sucks. You know I don’t care how people feel about it one way or the other. But to me, I at least feel overall it has improved, but not in all areas and where the issue could be for a lot of fans I think. The biggest area being the writing in general or at least what the consensus here mostly seems to be.

Even I’m forced to admit the show has improved some over that atrocious first season. But it was kinda hard to go anywhere but up in that situation.

The Burn is almost as nonsensical a plotline as the Red Angel. Yuck. I really wish this wasn’t what passed for Star Trek right now.


Star Trek: Discovery is as much a part of Star Trek as any of the other series. ST: Voyager was my fave, I loved the concept of them being far from home and alone, but lots of people said it sucked. I know lots of people that loved DS9, I thought DS9 sucked, was the worst and still do, but I don’t deny it its place in the Star Trek franchise. Things aren’t always going to go your way, plotlines are not always going to be resolved in the way you would like. Get over it…….its television, not the cure for cancer. Enjoy it for what it is and let that be that.

I do not recall in Bryant’s post him suggesting STD was not a part of Star Trek. He was just lamenting that this part of Star Trek, for him, does not measure up to the quality of the other parts of Star Trek we had before.

The bridge could do with an upgrade for season 4, The Kelvin Enterprise bridge looks more advanced, so maybe add some light to the bridge add a mild silver/gray and white, get rid of the bronze

Speaking of Kelvin Enterprise, I like the new Warp effect for Discovery, seems very similar to the JJ movies

They’ve been very inconsistent with how they’ve done the warp effect throughout the series. The one from season one was terrible. They were even inconsistent in the season finale.
That being said, I think the one where you see all the ships flying close together would be the best one going forward; I leaves open the option to have some warp battles like in the other series.

I noticed that in the first season. Which was yet another reason why it was not unreasonable to conclude that in spite of what was said, it very much looked like it belonged in the KU. Also, I can’t recall them using warp factors too often. It feels like to this group, warp is just one speed. Like light speed in Star Wars.

The bridge is overly dark, like the entire look of the series.

The bridge looks like a nightclub, and is about the size of one…

Why would you have all that empty space between consoles? Makes no sense…

I was able to visit the re-creation of the TOS Enterprise sets in Ticonderoga two years ago, and when I was on that bridge, I was amazed at how well designed it was. Everything was close enough to everything else that one officer could quickly take over for another if that one was injured, yet nobody got in anybody’s way, and there was enough space to move around.

The new ships have bridges that accommodate TV cameras more easily, but they look ridiculously large. In an emergency, you don’t want people piling up in the way, but you also don’t want to have to run a mile to get from one station to another.

Kirk was able to leap forward and push a button on Sulu’s console if both Sulu and Chekov had gotten knocked out, but the captain of Discovery would have a LONG way to go to check on a station in an emergency.

The Kelvin Enterprise bridge is awful. Built by Apple!!

‘Captain, Klingons off the starboard bow…’

‘Your orders please, Captain…?’

‘Captain, are you Ok…?’

‘Don’t cry, Captain…’

Group hug. LBGT/others characters kiss.

Spare me, please. Kill this show already.

Ha! Excellent.

Yes. Amusing. But some are not going to be able to laugh at it.

I didn’t like the explanation of “the Burn” or the downbeat atmosphere of this season. That said, I do see Season 4 as a really interesting opportunity to turn that around. They can now rediscover the galaxy we already knew, while at the same time bringing optimism to all those formerly cut off areas.

That’s what was said about season 3 and 2.. But they never did again and again. More garbage

Check out the photo of Tilly above in the new uniform and check out the episode again. In the photo she’s in command but in the show they changed it in post to make it science division. 🤓

So, that was a big Spoiler in the article title. lol, no big deal, though. I did not know she was a captain since I did not watch it yet. I don’t mind spoilers like this, but others might.

But, yes, those uniforms are awful.

We are just so lucky to have a Star Trek in our lives. I love everything about this show. Thank you showrunners!!!

Yes. We are extremely lucky to have Star Trek in our lives, for those who remember going from 2005 to 2017 with no Star Trek on television. Many thanks to everyone involved with Star Trek: Discovery!!!!

Tilly “handles herself beautifully” as acting captain? She lost the damn ship…pretty easily.

And they also said Burnham had a journey of self discovery, too. So… You know.

“Cloak the ship!”

“Should we change the ship’s location while we’re cloaked?”

“No! Stay right where they want us!”

Something obvious what has often been overlooked in Star Trek and never discussed. How do cloaked ships avoid to bump into each other or being bumped by other ships? I can only remember very few scenes where it was hinted that this could happen. Indeed it happened in the pilot of DSC when the klingon ships decloaked. But that was by purpose.
Also, why don’t they simply cloak the ship and immediately go on warp to change the location?
Shouldn’t that be a common tech and strategy anyway?

I think the rationale is that the size of a starship is so small compared to the size of space that it’s just extremely unlikely for two cloaked ships to be in the same spot at the same time and bump into each other.

Tilly being X0 was a really bad idea. Yeah I don’t know how losing the ship hours you were given in charge of it shows a great leader?

In fact one of the things they could’ve done to at least show what a great potential leader she could be by having it be Tilly to make it to the nacelle and destroy it and not Owo. I have no issue with it being Owo of course, but that would’ve at least showed Tilly being the hero and willing to sacrifice herself for the ship after it all goes wrong like Kirk getting the reactor back online in STID.

She was willing to sacrifice herself for the ship by giving the last oxygen to the person most likely to succeed with the mission instead of using it for herself.

I mean actually save the day though. That would’ve made it a bit more stronger.

It was Tilly’s idea to sacrifice herself, give the remaining oxygen to the person who had the best physiological chance of completing the mission. Do you people even watch the show or do you just log in here to bitch about it?

She wasn’t sacrificing herself. She figured they were all going to die anyway and that breath holding crew member (who weirdly wasn’t being asphyxiated when everyone else was) was the only one who could finish the task.

Those new uniforms are so unflattering.

Slight typo 😊
” Suru’s journey in season four “

Cool. A few posibilities regarding Tilly’s new uniform: either someone recolored the command red stripes as sciences blue or Mary Wiseman swtiched between the red and the blue or maybe the sciences blue she wore was had the stripes replaced digitally/virtually for with the command red one for a still. Correct me if I am wrong. Yet, I can imagine the ending of the “last season on” recap at the start of the season four premiere have the sciences blue stripes on Tilly’s new uniform virtually recolored command red.

Actually it’s the blue that looks to be a vfx overlay and the still is the original costume.

I think we can all agree on one thing- dressing Burnham and fwends like West Point cadets was a smashing success. Secret Hideout for the win.

Correction: it’s more like the uniform variation for pregnant West Point cadets. Very cool.

So let me get this straight; Mikey Spock who never went to the academy, has started a war that’s killed TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, assaulted her commanding officers, gotten most of the fleet destroyed including the Federation flag ship, has made bad decision after bad decision, and has needlessly taken her crew a thousand years into the future for no reason (because the A.I. that wanted to be an A.I. but wasn’t an A.I. but knew enough that it wanted to be an A.I. was defeated so they didn’t need to go anyway), who has no business being in Star Fleet let alone shouldn’t have access to a hand phaser, is rewarded for her failure with a captaincy?

The lesson here kids is that no matter how back you screw up, there’s no consequences and you’ll always fail upwards.

I agree entirely. It has made me reflect further on why I stopped watching this show at S3 Episode 3 (so I’m a little out of date but I’ve kept up in the forums).

If we go back to the very beginning we can see the seeds of some genuinely interesting characters or at least potential for interesting interactions.

Firstly, perhaps an unpopular position… Burnham & Saru’s relationship in S01 E01 felt interesting. You had genuine banter between the two and they operated as a good counter-point to Captain Georgiou’s warm wisdom. Even in S01 E03 after we killed our first interesting character only to be reincarnated as a less interesting character, Saru’s genuine dislike for Burnham had depth.

Secondly, we have Stamets. Prickly, arrogant, feintly obnoxious…someone who added depth to a cast that was slowly turning into their real-world counter-parts (aside from the aforementioned reincarnated Georgiou). You believed that this person was a scientist who would rather spend time with mushrooms then other people. His relationship with Culber provided just enough of the softer-side that makes characters like his more relatable and appealing long-term.

Thirdly, we have Ensign Tilly. She started off as a somwhat annoying but believable “aww jeez aint space pretty” kind of character. It would have been good to see that overwhelmed sense of aww turn into dignified and capable confidence over time.

Fourthly, we have Captain Lorka, clearly the most interesting character of S01 and I don’t need to really go into much more detail.

….but look what happened.

Saru’s disdain for Burnham quickly evaporates into aww and admiration culminating in a cringe-worthy “we found ourselves among the stars” deathbed scene. Tears, solemn looks and inconsistent attitude towards each other continued to characterise what started off as a believable, interesting yet elegant dynamic.

Stamet’s has turned into his real-world counter-part along with everyone else. A kind uncle…and even though there seems to be some friction between him and Burnham right now, I’m sure it’ll be resolved by S04 EP1 with “Burnham, you were right all along” moment. With hugs.

Tilly hasn’t really changed at all. Her character seems to be there as consistent comic relief until the writers need to bring in some artificial depth and give her a few scenes which magically turns her into a confident and competent COMMAND officer.

Lorka…like the mansplaining engineer at the start of S02 (another potentially interesting foil for the friendly lovable cast) gets tossed into oblivion.

I’ll see this once. What is the difference between tuning in and switch off? The characters.

Yes Season 3 looks like it had turned a corner, then halfway through it started to fall off a cliff again.

And it’s a terrbile lesson for them, because the kids’ lives will have better writers that won’t let them fail upwards.

Good point, Drew.

Plenty of people fail upwards in reality.
I’m not suggesting it’s a good strategy to go through life but it’s not too rare.

Sadly, I knew that would happen since Season One. And you’re right, what a terrible signal to send to younger viewers out there. Irresponsible.

The people running this show are taking the p*ss. It’s beyond a joke.

The war started the moment the Klingons rammed and destroyed the admiral’s ship while supposedly maintaining a truce.

Gray coming back is great news for people who like longer episodes. Although he doesn’t actually make the episodes longer, he only makes them SEEM longer.

I liked the Vulcan look. Maybe they can figure out a way to bring that back, too.

Anybody know why this week’s ready room seems to be Geo-Locked? The youTube version linked in this article is unavailable in Australia, and it has not appeared visible on either Facebook or Instagram.

Does it work when you go directly to the official site StarTrek.com?

Thanks. Yes it does. I had no idea they were on StarTrek.com as well. Much appreciated.

You’re welcome.

I’m in Canada, but still have issues with blocking sometimes.

In the end, I just go to the StarTrek.com site first since its supposed to have the “global” versions of everything.

You know people gave a lot of flak to the Motion Picture uniforms but these uniforms look even worse than the TMP ones. It is kind of interesting and telling that the best uniforms the show had were based on the TOS uniforms. Yes, we might be living in dark and depressing times but I think people need to appreciate the colorfulness of TOS and its uniforms.

The TMP uniforms are downright Oscar-worthy in comparison to these eyesores.

Grey is a dull color. Are the show runners consciously or subconsciously telling us that this is the dullest crew in the Star Trek franchise.

Yeah, we don’t leave stones unturned.”

This made me laugh. Then I started wondering what show they were talking about…

I also have issues with their comments about how Michael had a “journey”. Season one had no journey. This season she had everything handed to her and she didn’t grow as a person in any way shape or form. She learned that she can get away with being subordinate. Not only that, get promoted for it, too!

It’s really disappointing reading what the show’s top brass are thinking of their product. It’s just showing they really do not have a clue about the problems the show does have. And while I figured they were done tinkering with the show anyway, it shows they are completely oblivious to their own shortcomings.

And sadly, there’s no reason to think it’s ever going to improve at this point. They are clearly making exactly the show they want to make.

Agreed. I mentioned that sometime during the first 1/3 of this season that it seems, for good or ill, this is the show they want to make. They are pretty much done tinkering with it.

‘learned that she can get away with being subordinate. Not only that, get promoted for it, too!’

Pretty much how sisko and Kelvin Kirk made Captain.

Would disagree with Sisko. Kelvin Kirk really got it through circumstance and a well placed ally.

I’m sorry DS9 sucked. There it’s been said. I refused to pretend a stationary space station was somehow going to be an exciting backdrop for a Star Trek series. It could never be and it wasn’t, not even with the addition of the Defiant and bringing back Worf.

But that it was, an increasing exciting backdrop with a host of brilliant supporting characters and an arc that tests the foundation of the fed, Starfleet to its limits.

Agreed 100%, they are mildly insaine.

That’s it! This new uniform makes everybody looks FAT! I have said. XD

Just dropping a line to say that EP Michelle Paradise has really improved as a public communicator since she came on board.

18 months ago, I was saying here that she really needed more media training to be able to deftly get the message out to the fans.

This series of interviews is so much more poised, polished and credible than her early ones, whatever critiques some of us may have for the show itself.

As with the improvements this season in Discovery itself, if we’ve dished out the critiques, I feel we should also be recognizing the progress.

I predict in Season 4, Episode 1, that Captain Burnham says, “This is who we are” and “We got you”.

I predict the same for Season 4, Episodes 2-13.

meanwhile, she single-handedly saves the universe, right after disobeying a direct order. Then a group hug.

Ha, ha love the kim Jong 2 wardrobe comment…please oh please someone photoshop a ton of famous Kim Jong Photos into trek uniforms.

Maybe I just color panelsissed this – but did Tilly get promoted at the end of the finale? She needs to be promoted, at least to Lieutenant. Don’t want another Harry Kim situation where she’s an ensign forever.

Generally I like Gersha’s work, but not a huge fan of these uniforms – especially the business at the neck and on the shoulder braids, seems like that’s redundant.Get rid of the neck things, and make the color panels brighter, so they pop off the gray better.

Sorry – that should start with “Maybe I just missed this” . . .

Well, Kim had 7 seasons where 6 of them had 24 shows minimum. Tilly has had three seasons of 13 shows each. She had a long way to go before hitting Harry Kim territory.

I’ve just realized that the Admiral has 5 pips and Captain has 4. And they are the same type of pips.

Big S’What?!!

The C-in-C of Starfleet should be a “5-star” flag officer, but this suggests that Starfleet is so reduced that it only has one admiral.

Tg. In the US the highest current rank is 4 star. 5 star is technically available , but hasn’t been used since right after ww2.

The new uniforms are actually worse than the old ones. I liked the color of blue they used for Seasons 1-3, I thought it was a good throwback to the Federation flag. However, those collars and slanted zippers with those silver and gold stripes, they were just not right. I wish they had stuck with the blue but obviously there are going to be changes when you cross over into a world that has 900 years of evolution under its belt.

I’ve been rewatching season 3 and have some new blue sky thoughts for future seasons.

With more recent evidence of a galactic barrier in the real world, it would be cool for Discovery to revisit the great galactic barrier question from TOS.

Specifically, is the spore drive a means to go where warp or slipstream cannot?

Could Discovery jump to the Sagittarius dwarf galaxy and see who and what’s there?

Are there other civilizations from beyond our galaxy that could drop in with this technology?

If they wanted to reach into the TOS bag some more I suppose they could jump over to Andromeda and see what the Kelvins are up to… But honestly are there that many people who care?

I think that there is a good segment of fans looking for episodes where authentically new aliens and new civilizations are encountered.

I’ve noticed on other boards that many of the new viewers who like Voyager best are saying that they really like how Voyager kept encountering new aliens and technology. For those who find TOS too dated, Voyager is really the only series that offers that.

Reconnecting with isolated societies in S4 is a natural progression for Discovery, but the only way Discovery is going to encounter much that’s never been seen before (by 32nd century Starfleet experience) is to get beyond the galactic rim.

Agree 100%

That would mean they actually do some Discovery.. which is not what the show is about.

Did we ever find out how the music and distress signal combined? And how it came to be familiar to everyone across the galaxy?

The melody was a distortion of the distress signal which was being transmitted in the audio range.

It’s unclear how it was disseminated across many Federation and formerly Federation planets. However, with subspace communication breaking down in the period following the Burn, any signal that got through would attract interest.

Catchy melodies tend to get picked up and worked into compositions and folk music, often without awareness of their origin. In a post-Burn context of lost databases attribution would impossible in many cases and not a priority.

In fact, the disinterest in tracking down the origin of a piece of music is another symptom of how the Federation society has broken down. The lack of curiosity is part of the issue as well as the patchiness of the Federation’s records and databases. Lieutenant Willa’s “why would anyone care where a common song came from?” is a way of showing us how different the attitudes are in this 32nd century Starfleet that’s focused on survival.

Saru’s parallels to the dark ages and medieval era when Roman science, technology and engineering had been largely lost is more apt than it seemed when he said it. It seems that most of the scientific research and development was happening in the Chain even though the Federation and other planets had stabilized to some degree.

No. It seems that concept was dropped completely.