‘Star Trek 4’ Loses Director, Paramount Still Moving Forward With The Project

The next Star Trek feature film project has run into another snag, this time related to its director.

Shakman exits

This morning, news broke that Matt Shakman had been tapped to direct the Fantastic Four reboot for Marvel with a target release in November 2024. Since the summer of 2021, the WandaVision helmer had been attached to direct the next Star Trek feature film. Earlier this year producer J.J. Abrams and Paramount Pictures made a big deal out of announced plans to move forward with the follow-up to Star Trek Beyond with a December 2023 release.

With these two projects overlapping, it was no surprise that later in the afternoon Paramount confirmed Shakman has exited, releasing the following statement that also showed a continuing commitment to the Star Trek project:

Matt Shakman is an incredibly talented filmmaker, and we regret the timing didn’t align for him to direct our upcoming Star Trek film,. We are grateful for his many contributions, are excited about the creative vision of this next chapter and look forward to bringing it to audiences all around world

According to The Hollywood Reporter, a search for a new director for the next Star Trek movie will “begin immediately.”

Since the big announcement in February made by Abrams during Paramount Global’s investor day event, the Kelvin Universe cast has expressed a high level of excitement over reuniting for a fourth film, with some also confirming that have met or spoken to Shakman, including star Chris Pine. However, members of the cast have also expressed skepticism regarding Abrams’ plan to start shooting this fall as that conflicts with some of their schedules. For example, Karl Urban (Dr. McCoy) just began shooting the next season of The Boys in Toronto.

Even with the delays and scheduling issues and loss of the director, the Hollywood trades report that bringing Star Trek back to the big screen is a priority for the studio. According to The Hollywood Reporter, it remains “unclear” if the film will be able to meet the December 22, 2023 release date. Another shift in that date seems almost certain at this point.

This is a developing story. TrekMovie will provide updates as they become available.

Keep up with all the news on Star Trek 4 and upcoming Trek films at TrekMovie.com.

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Nah, I was not happy at all with the choice of that director. Let him direct that Marvel Phase 23 drivel instead.

It’s nothing but smoke and mirrors man. It has nothing to do with who is directing it This movie has clearly been stalled long ago now and the guy just moved on. Trying to spin it as a positive is pretty bizarre. Fantastic 4 will get made before this movie ever does.

But let’s move on to the FIFTH director in six years. Make a #$@$ movie Paramount!

Nevertheless, I was not at all excited about that director choice. Another Fantastic 4 reboot (and no one I know wants to see that again) is much better suited to his overrated skill set.

I’d rather we have more delays and get a better choice for director.

Aren’t you the same guy whose been fervent the movie was only delayed due to scheduling issues? Losing your director a year after you announced him to another movie is definitely one of them.

At some point, you just have to tell yourself the obvious. They have no real confidence in the next movie. They haven’t had it for six years now as we lose yet another director and probably in for a much longer delay. Paramount needs to figure out what they want to do with this franchise! They clearly don’t know.

I will admit that you could very well be right on this.

However I think it’s 50/50 that what is really going on here is that within the next month or so we are going to hear that JJ Abrams is going to direct Trek 4. Conveniently, his schedule is now completely freed up as HBO max has decided to not fund his $200M+ pitched new sf series…that literally happened last month, and now suddenly, the directors chair is open for Trek 4?

Coincidence? We’ll see.

Ok man.

And JJ Abrams directing again? Ugh, please, please, please NO!

I love Trek 2009 and can’t stand STID. Flip a coin on a 3rd JJ movie. I’m game to see if he can turn this into a career comeback.

I know one thing, his Trek movie will have gravitas and feel epic, which is more than I can say for the other 3 of the last 5 Trek films (Beyond, Nemesis and Insurrection).

I can’t stand either ‘09 or Into Darkness, and respectfully disagree those movies had any gravitas, certainly not more than Insurrection or Nemesis. Epic? Maybe, yeah, at least in the sense of being obviously expensive, but so is a state-of-the-art theme park ride. For all the problems of the TNG movies, particularly Nemesis, both feel far more substantial to me than either of J. J. Abrams’ two Trek movies.

Personally, as someone who’s really less-than-fond of the Kelvin movies (even if I like the actors), I’m not bothered by today’s news one bit. I’d just as soon they forget about Kelvin IV altogether and instead start fresh with a totally new crew or something, and if it adds another year or three to the wait, I’m fine with that. I already have Lower Decks and Prodigy to make me happy in the meantime anyway.

JJ Abrams is a hack director. It’s hilarious anyone would want him back after the abominations of STID and TROS. His movies are all style over substance.

Yeah they look nice but some of the most dead brain stories you can make

I still remember a YouTuber movie reviewer commenting on his Star Trek movies saying they are made for dumb people to feel smart.

That guy was right on the money! 😂😂

I really don’t care if JJ verse dies. Most people seem to stop caring long ago at this point. Bringing back JJ would be another nail in the coffin.

So his Star Trek movies are essentially like Lower Decks?

No, Lower Decks doesn’t have things like promoting a three year cadet to Captain of a starship or healing dead people through magic blood.

And its a comedy. The Kelvin movies isn’t but can feel like a parody at times.

LDS is canon though — CBS insisted on it. So comedy or not, everything we see on screen we have to take as part of Star Trek’s future history. I saw no official policy quote from CS saying “but you can ignore the comedy elements in terms of canon.” If I missed that somewhere, please let me know?

Regarding the Kelvin movies, I think the Spock Katra soul downloading and reanimation think is more unbelievable that the magic blood thing (which is least doesn’t require metaphysical processes that we can’t understand) in my book. And Kelvin Kirk did save the entire Federation, but yeah, Pike and the Admiralty saw the error in that too large a promotion and corrected it by demoting him to Commander under Pike — so they did address that in STID based on fan complaints. And none of the Kelvin movies did that moronic flying around the sun reverse time travel BS which we’ve seen multiple times in Prime Trek, which we know is physically impossible (i.e. backwards time travel is simply not possible).

So yeah, I see a lot of fans who buy all the questionable, head scratching stuff we see on Lower Decks (as well as some of the brain-fart stuff in Prime Trek) hook, line and sinker, ALL OF A SUDDEN becoming so serious and concerned about similar levels of questionable, head scratching stuff we see on Kelvin Trek?

Here is an example. So we got BudEngineering in Kelvin Trek, but in Lower Decks a musical concert in a lounge on the ship causes the entire starship to shake in space (which is physically impossible), and even the Klingons nearby notice the music? I don’t see much of a difference here in terms of starship engineering believability here — both shows are equally laughable here…yet, many fans just hammer Kelvin Trek for this while giving the usual free pass to Lower Decks, and they don’t even realize how hypocritical this looks?

Yeah Lower Decks should definitely be canon.. Dude you’re the ONLY one who brings that up here lol. Don’t know what to tell you?

But comparing an animated comedy to the bizarre things they did in the Kelvin is apples and oranges because those AREN’T a comedy. You’re suppose to take seriously an 18 year old navigator is promoted to chief engineer on a whim. Why???? Or that the Captain would order a starship to be submerged under water on a planet they are not even suppose to be seen in. Again, why????

If those things happened in Lower Decks, people could get over them because its a comedy man! Comedies are based on the absurd. But the Kelvin movies are not suppose to be a comedy or a parody, right? You’re suppose to take them as serious dramas and where people have issues with it at times.

Obviously there are a lot of goofy things done in Star Trek, but the Kelvin movies just do so many head scratching things. It’s why people are so divided on them now.

I will say with Beyond, not as many of those types of things, but that had both different writers and a director too.

To me, I think Abrams will double down on the ridiculousness and why they should get someone who understands Star Trek more.

Obviously we’re not going to agree, that’s fine. But since you’re not even tied to the idea of Abrams being a director of the next movie, then we can move on now.

Well I get where you are coming from even though I disagree on some points. Sure, let’s move on.

In my opinion, Abrams is not a great director, but he is most certainly not a hack. His faults are in not being able to recognize questionable plotting, believable probabilities and nuances in storytelling, and just bad writing in general as a producer and director. If anybody are hacks, it’s those who wrote those terrible, terrible scripts for many of the STAR WARS and STAR TREK projects he has headed and been connected with. I’m not sure how much he has contributed to the conceptualization and writing of those script, but if he was responsible for some of the bad choices made in them, then he might be, at the very least, a hack writer himself, but not one as a director.

I see him as an utter failure as a filmmaker, both on the story and the direction side of things. This childish misuse of lens flare makes me honestly think that a 10 year old boy is making the creative calls, and this chronic misuse of an occasionally very effective tool has spread like a virus in the last decade-plus, and it seriously impacts my viewing pleasure on otherwise okay projects as well as the abramstreks, which for me would still be messes even if they were shot clean.

He does nostalgia well. I’m not sure what he does well beyond that, and NuTrek has to stop running on nostalgia. It ain’t 2009 anymore.

I don’t think JJ is the problem he is a serviceable director if he isn’t writing it and he doesn’t do his lens flares and shaking camera thing. Its down to the script not being utter trash. While at the same time not being boring like Beyond. Beyond was the one closest to the TOS films and original series and the one that ran out of gas. The whole idea of a reboot is to be fresh and original and to shake things up and they did greatest hits of Trek. Even the fans who supposedly adore the old stuff didn’t show up.

No no no, no more JJ!

While it’s not entirely outside the realm of possibility, Abrams gains nothing by directing ST4. The only way it happens if if Paramount gives him something really, really enticing, and I have no idea what that could be.

Dude, you really need to pay better attention to the media news.

Dude, I do (I have law school colleagues who are studio lawyers). Abrams is in the middle of an exclusive five year deal with WB (signed in 2019). He has legacy projects at Paramount, but unless he terminates his deal with WB, he would be breaching his contract with WB if he personally directed a ST movie. Now, it’s true that WB Discovery is looking at the Abrams deal post-merger (as they are with everything else) but CEO David Zaslav is reportedly committed to keeping Abrams.

Then you should realize that they dropped financing for his huge $200 million plus new sci-fi series and that he has no current new-start projects for WB. Given that, it should be an easy deal to make to let him make this next Star Trek movie for Paramount – since it’s looking like they obviously have no intention of funding the large scale types of projects he wants to do there at WB.

The trade press rarely gets into the weeds the way that actual lawyers do. There might be reasons for WB to provide a consent for Abrams to direct.

Yeah, that’s exactly what I was suggesting given WB appears to not want to spend the $ right now on JJA’s costly projects.

I just don’t get it, out of ALL the directors out there and many who probably understand Star Trek than Abrams ever could, why are you so intent on bringing him back? I liked the first movie too but it felt way more like a Star Wars reel than Star Trek. I didn’t mind the lens flairs like so many others but watching those movies now, the lens flairs has already dated them. LDS even made fun of them in Crisis Point. ‘

I don’t think Abrams will ever direct a Star Trek film again but I think it’s cost alone that will thankfully keep him away. I thought Lin did a much better job with Beyond but the story could’ve been more interesting.

I’m not all that intent on it — I’m marginally positive at best on him as the choice, but I would take him over that Marvel TV Bewitched reboot dude.

What I am saying is that given what is going on, I would not be surprised is he does in up being Paramount’s choice.

Well I really hope that’s the not the case. Abrams is a one trick pony who doesn’t even understand Star Trek. Why not ask someone who actually understands it and not just make a story about more ubervillains trying to take down Earth? And as I said, he’s probably way too expensive now.

Hope so bro. Let Abrams ruin any DC stuff. Keep this hack far away from Star Trek. He’s done enough damage.

JJ bought Star Trek back from the dead. Is that the “damage” you speak of hyoomən?

If a reanimated zombie is your idea of Trek, relish this time. For me, it was better dead (even though it wasn’t ever dead, just on ice — witness that there was another feature attempt before Abrams, it just didn’t have juice behind it.)

And managed to kill it again just two movies and 7 years later. 😂😂

Paramount is still afraid to make more JJ verse movies because they know it can crash and burn. Such a loved movie series for the fans. 😉

They should use that money for more Tom Cruise movies since those make real money. JJ verse time been over awhile now.

Exactly right. Paramount doesn’t make movies anymore – they connect investors with production companies like Bad Robot and take a cut.

Each JJ Trek movie performed worse than the first one. Exactly like JJ Star Wars. And with VERY mediocre Trek saturated on the streaming service, there is absolutely no pent-up demand for a big screen adventure by Cadet Kirk and Rage Spock.

WANDAVISION was terrific, can’t see his involvement with TREK as anything other than a plus, and god knows this bunch needs something. Except for the first half of BEYOND, I’ve found the BadRobot stuff to be utter crap, both insulting to the viewer in terms of stupidity and both painful and ridiculous in terms of visuals.

Lol, well IDIC I guess on that one. “Bewitched meets Marvel” was some of the lamest crap I have ever seen on TV…I want that 6 hours of my life back.

To each his own.

Totally agree with you! I loved the original Marvel movies ( Iron Man,Thor, Black Panther, etc.) but I am not as enthralled with the new multiverse and streaming shows. I did not even finish watching the first episode of Wandavision until my grandson told me that the plot got better with each succeeding episode. It did improve but not a lot. I guess we know what Scarlet Witch did with her free time in between fighting Thanos and his supervillians. Had to have been a huge fan of Bewitched reruns!

As Am I.


I guess we know what Scarlet Witch did with her free time in between fighting Thanos and his supervillians. Had to have been a huge fan of Bewitched reruns!

Lol, exactly. The only thing missing was Uncle Arthur showing up. :-))

All my family enjoyed WandaVision. It was an original take, each episode going to a different decade. My wife is not into sci-fi, Star Trek, Star Wars, Marvel is her lullaby.

It was the first (no little kids) show we watched and enjoyed together. I was truly excited for Shakman as the new director.

Yeah I really loved WandaVision as well, certainly more than Picard and Discovery at the time and I’m ten times a Trek fan than a Marvel one. I don’t know if that means he would’ve been a good Star Trek director but I was open-minded enough to see what he would do with it.

As for Abrams, I used to defend him a lot and while I have issues with his Kelvin movies, I’m not as harsh about it as you are. But then I’m not harsh on anything about Star Trek as you are lol.

But after TROS, I stopped defending him. STID was bad but ROS was an abomination. And I’m OK with another Kelvin movie, but bring in some fresh blood. Abrams movies feels too much like Star Was lite and he would just do another movie with a one note ubervillain who will try and destroy Earth again. We had that, twice. Let’s move on to someone who wants to do something different and dare I say it, more Trek-y!

Anyway, I highly doubt Abrams is directing because my take is that another movie is not moving forward is due to the budget. End of the day I think that’s what this is all about. Paramount is afraid the next movie will bomb like Beyond and they are woefully trying to do another movie with a much lower budget and having a hard time with it. Abrams is the guy who added $40 million on STID and probably more costly after Star Wars. For those reasons alone will probably keep him away from another Star Trek film thankfully.

But I don’t think finding another director is the issue. It’s much bigger than that or Shakman probably would’ve stayed.

The director is not, of course, necessarily the script writer.

No, but they usually have full control on the direction of the story unless they are more a director for hire like most TV directors are and just shoot whatever the script is.

But Abrams had full say on the scripts, he simply didn’t write them, but nothing went in that he didn’t like. But in his case, he probably didn’t know enough about Star Trek or how to please the fans so left it to whatever Orici, Kurtzman and Lindeloff wanted, but he still had the final say of what the story was.

That was definitely the case with Justin Lin too although he didn’t write Beyond, he added his own input like the Enterprise being destroyed for example.

I would THINK it would be the same for Shakman and he would have the script geared to whatever he wanted to do, but yeah, who knows? It could even be the reason why he left, but doubtful.

JJ didn’t understand Star Wars. Its not about lighstabers and cool action scenes. He made Luke Skywalker a maguffin, not a character a maguffin. And people slag off Rian Johnson.

Yeah but he at least bent over backwards to make his SW movies feel every bit as authentic to the Star Wars universe. Everything felt directly in place. The characters actually looked liked their characters.

For Star Trek, he didn’t care at all how the universe was suppose to look and why we got British Khan. a budweiser engineering room, an Apple store bridge and on and on. And I’m not saying he can’t change things at all of course, it just felt obvious with SW being a fan of it he tried his best to adhere to its canon where as Star Trek he just changed whatever he wanted because it didn’t matter to him as much.

He would’ve never dared to redesign any of the legacy characters in SW but for Star Trek, Khan was just some dude to him and actually thought since he’s not all that attached to the original it won’t matter that much.

And the irony is most of us didn’t even want Khan in the first place, but if you’re going to do it, do it right! Please keep Abrams FAR away from ever making another Star Trek movie, it will just be more heartache.

I was thinking along the same lines kmart.

But Tiger2’s comment about ‘smoke and mirrors’ is on the money..

A director of that calibre doesn’t walk away 12 months into a project he had faith in.

Finding a filmmaker with a vision and the willingness plus creativity to deliver it at a price is IMO the key to making Trek work on the big screen.

The insane Abrams sized budgets keep even a big grossing Trek from being a huge financial win, yet they don’t seem to be willing to settle for a small but guaranteed return with a more constrained/intimate (a la KHAN 82) approach.

I still think Hawley and Clarkson are the best choices among those they’ve worked with (or not worked with, in the end) in developing another feature.
Then again, I’m also the guy who for years trumpeted about getting writer/director Tom McCarthy onto TREK, thinking he would be a modern version of Meyer — until I found out he pretty much totalled the GoT pilot, which had to be almost entirely reshot by somebody else. Of course, fantasy is its own animal … I wouldn’t know what to do with a dragon/swords project myself (which is why you don’t see me on GoT sites, even though I enjoyed some of the 30 or so eps I watched), but have always had strong ideas about how to treat Trek.

Who can beat Disney/Marvel strategy and resources!? This is a no brainier for Shakman. He spent a whole year waiting for Paramount. So unfortunate.

Hope now they have the time to find a date to get all the actors together and find a good Director.

Wonder if Jonathan Frakes will be taken into consideration.

Frakes has said he doesn’t think he’s the man to handle a $200mm budget. However, if they want to do a modestly budgeted Paramount+ movie, maybe.

The reality is no one should be making anymore $200 million Star Trek movies. Because they don’t make what most big budget $200 million films make, not even close. When Ant-Man movies which only cost around $130 million makes more money than all the Kelvin movies do by hundreds of millions more, something is clearly wrong. And I think that’s the whole issue, they are probably trying to make a movie closer to $100 million than $200 million and can’t figure it out.

This is obviously just speculation, but everything Paramount has been doing from trying to lower Pine’s salary in the past to hiring smaller directors or people like Tarantino whose movies are usually much smaller than big budget directors show that.

The Kelvin movies, at the very least, should be earning what the Ant Man movies do, which is the lowest making films in that franchise, but at a much smaller cost. If a Star Trek movie can’t even make what an Ant Man movie can, then they should at least cost about the same as those which I think is the goal or near it.

That’s apples and oranges because Ant-man is a marvel family-targeted movie little kids wanna see.

With inflation, making a Trek movie right now for 200 million would be like making one for 150 million 6-7 years ago, so if they can pull that off that would be a legitimate budget cut, because with ticket inflation the new movies gonna make at least $550 M globally, if it plays in China

The POINT being Ant Man earns its budget, the Kelvins movies simply don’t. And they are both rated PG 13 films, so they are both suitable for same audiences. The Kelvin movies aren’t R rated lol.

Well if you think the 6-12 aged crowd who ended up seeing Ant Man approaches the level of the 6-12 age group seeing ANY Star Trek movie, well I’m not going to stop you from believing that. :-)

BTW, Paul Rudd gave a special pre-screening of Ant Man and the Wasp to a auditorium full of 300 kids. Marvel knows their market for the Ant Man movies goes much younger than some of their other titles.

Kids love that stuff…obviously, right?

You’re missing the entire point lol, I’m going to say it one more time, if you have a $200 million movie that makes hundred million less than a ‘kids movie’ then clearly something wrong!

Your logic makes no sense. None. Because Ant Man isn’t making more than Iron Man, Captain America, Black Panther and all the rest. And guess what, all those movies cost what Star Trek cost to make, only made twice or more what Star Trek makes in box office.

Do you get the point now? The budget for Star Trek is TOO high if you can’t compete with moies that cost $60 million less than yours. This is just common sense lol.

And making a $200 million would be suicide man. Dude, I don’t get your thinking on a lot of this. Abrams is subjective so thats fine. But why would you give a movie a $200 million budget after STID under performed and Beyond bombed with similar budgets???

Do you want the next one to bomb too?? Why do you think its taking so long for another one to even get made man? These movies should be made at around $100-130 million tops.

Star Trek is not Batman, Star Wars or even Ant-Man lol.

$200M today is not what $200M was 6-7 years ago. I don’t think you are getting that. If they made the movie for $200M TODAY, that would be making it for $150M in 2015 Dollars, so a 25% budget cut.

So if it’s $200M TODAY, then that gets you what you want here, dude — a significant budget cut!

One Lion.

Normally I understand your logic on things, even when I disagree. But dude, I don’t even understand what you’re saying here lol.

None of these movies are tied to any specific cost. Just because they spent $150 million on a movie a decade ago doesn’t mean they have to A. spend the same amount today or B. keep up with inflation since most Hollywood movies cost well beyond ‘inflation’. You can’t even factor that in because Hollywood spends money like Washington D.C., incessantly. And that’s not how a ‘budget cut’ works.

We’re not talking about gas prices here, what a movie cost isn’t contingent on global market forces, they actually can make the movie at any level they choose to. They can make a $50 million Star Trek film. No one here would suggest it (nor should they), but yeah nothing stops them from doing that.

And movie companies make cheaper movies ALL the time when they think a sequel is not going to do as well. Dude, Beyond cost $185 million and it only brought in $345 million. and that was six years ago which bombed. So your solution is to go higher??? What????

Please tell me you don’t own a business.
One Lion.

Normally I understand your logic on things, even when I disagree. But dude, I don’t even understand what you’re saying here lol.

None of these movies are tied to any specific cost. Just because they spent $150 million on a movie a decade ago doesn’t mean they have to A. spend the same amount today or B. keep up with inflation since most Hollywood movies cost well beyond ‘inflation’. You can’t even factor that in because Hollywood spends money like Washington D.C., obscenely. England doesn’t spend $200 million on their movies and cost of living is much higher there. And that’s not how a ‘budget cut’ works.

We’re not talking about gas prices here, what a movie cost isn’t contingent on global market forces, they actually can make the movie at any level they choose to. They can make a $50 million Star Trek film. No one here would suggest it (nor should they), but yeah nothing stops them from doing that.

And movie companies make cheaper movies ALL the time when they think a sequel is not going to do as well. Dude, Beyond cost $185 million and it only brought in $345 million. and that was six years ago which bombed. So your solution is to go higher??? What????

Please tell me you don’t own a business.

Dude, I work on large scale technology projects, some of which take many years to complete, and we build in economic inflation factors into the long term budget and schedule. And there are both government and corporate level inflation tables that convert dollars over time. And the past years inflation rates are known, and you can convert “then year dollars” to today’s dollars easily. There are conversion tables by industry type you can find, but they mostly line up with the US govt’s CPI index by year.

For a simplistic quick example of this, just search “CPI Inflation Calculator,” and you will get a little online calculation tool you can play with yourself. Put in 200 million for July 2022, and then select July 2015, and it clearly calculates for you that 200 million dollars today has the buying power of 161 million dollars back in 2016. So yeah, if you fund a new Trek movie today at 200 million, you are in really doing the production of that movie for 20% less than what you spent for a similar movie you were were making it in 2015. So yeah, you’d be making a movie for 20% cheaper today than in 2015 if you could keep the budget at the $200 million level for a 2015 movie.

This is math and statistics that real businesses and the government use, so yeah, I do know unequivocally what I am talking about on this topic.

PS: As you mentioned, Beyond cost actually about $185 mil to make in 2015$, which would translate to it costing about $230 million if they produced it in the same exact way today in 2022$. So if you made Beyond today for $185 mil, that’s would effectively be cutting it’s budget by 1/(230/185),which is 80%, so yeah, 20% of a cut in the production cost today vs. 2015.

…similarly, the Star Trek 2009 budget of $190 mil in 2009$, equates for $261 mil in 2022 dollars. So if you could make a Trek movie today for $190 mil, then in terms of your budget, you’d be making this new Trek movie for 1/(261/190) = 73%, so you’d be making this new movie today for 27% less than you did for Trek 2009 in 2009.

Dude, this is why when you keep mentioning $200 mil, you are actually already factoring in a significantly more efficient and less costly movie given movies are 20% more expensive to make than in 2015, and 27% more expensive to make than in 2009.

Do you get it now?

England doesn’t spend $200 million on their movies

Huh? Just off the top of my head, I can list No Time to Die, Dark Knight Rises, TFA and Tenet. And weren’t like all of the Harry Potter movies shot there?

Huh? Just off the top of my head, I can list No Time to Die, Dark Knight Rises, TFA and Tenet. And weren’t like all of the Harry Potter movies shot there?

Um, A. Those are all American movies, not British films.

B. I didn’t say where they were shot, just who made them and PAID for them, ie, the American studios. England gives them a tax break by shooting there (and I remember JK Rowling had a clause in the contract she would only allow the movies to be shot in the U.K at the time), but they certainly aren’t paying for it. They are just making the money off of them for being there. ;)

Buy that logic, all Sony movies would be considered Japanese movies then? I believe every single James Bond movie has been produced and shot in England, BTW. I think Nolan does all his movies in the same way.

Buy that logic, all Sony movies would be considered Japanese movies then? I believe every single James Bond movie has been produced and shot in England, BTW. I think Nolan does all his movies in the same way.

I have no idea what you’re saying here?

Now I feel like I am talking to a wall…lol. Dude, you are the one that just said if American companies paid for the movies then they can’t be counted as English movies. So if we are to buy into that, then all Sony movies, like all the Spiderman and James Bond movies would be considered Japanese movies given Sony is HQ’d in Japan. That just makes no sense?

No man, the Bond movies, the Nolan movies and the Harry Potter movies are UK films, and many of them exceeded $200M in budget — and the majority of that money was freaking spent in the UK. lol

What does Sony has to do with a British movie lol. That’s what I’m confused. I simply said that England doesn’t spend $200 million on movies because they don’t. Most movies industries don’t outside of America.

The UK doesn’t MAKE those films man. They don’t produce them. Those are American movies. James Bond has a British production company that help makes them, the same way Bad Robot makes movies with Paramount, but Sony puts up all the money.

Warner Brothers puts up all the money for Harry Potter because they are the ones who bought the rights to that character and books. What movie studio in the UK makes Harry Potter movies or shows? There are none, because WB has that license and AFAIK, will have it for years to come.

Chris Nolan’s production company — this is from the company info (these is company listed info exactly as listed – not my opinion):

Syncopy Films Inc. [UK]
Broadcasting & media production company
Syncopy Films Inc. is a British film production company based in London, England, founded by Christopher Nolan and Emma Thomas.
FILMS: 2020, Tenet; 2017, Dunkirk; 2014; Interstellar; 2012,The Dark Knight Rises

But I am not going to stop you from believing these are American movies…go for it. :-)

OMG man, I don’t understand why this is so hard to get?

Those movies you just listed are American made movies! Not British. They are own and paid for by Warner Bros, which is an American movie studio. Nolan makes the movies and gets residuals from them, he doesn’t actually own them because his company is not a movie studio, it’s a production company which makes, once again, American films and not British ones.

I’ll put it in terms you can understand better. Nolan is basically JJ Abrams. Abrams ALSO has a production company which we know is Bad Robot. He goes around Hollywood studios making films and TV shows getting funding from them to make his own original content or big IP content like Star Trek and Star Wars. He doesn’t ‘own’ those franchises anymore than Nolan owns The Dark Knight Rises. Warner Bros does and hence why they keep making more Batman movies.

The funny thing is this example goes entirely against your argument lol. He lives and works in Hollywood for a reason, because they have the money to finance the films he wants to make, not the U.K. All of those movies you listed are over $100 million easily.

I don’t understand how an off hand comment about England making $200 million movies can derail so badly? Dude if you truly believe this, fine, then give me a British studio who financed a British film that carries a budget of what the Kelvin movies do?

Warner Bros giving Nolan $180 million to make Batman movies are not an example of a British movie lol.

The only renegade Bond films produced outside the UK were MOONRAKER and LICENCE TO KILL.


Kmart, again, I understand that. Yes I know Eon Productions which is a British production company makes the Bond movies. But who pays for them? Who is giving Eon the money? A British studio or an American one? That’s what I’m talking about. ;)

I know from the start it was UA/MGM which is as American as you can get for a film studio being one of the oldest in Hollywood at the time. I don’t pretend to know the history of Bond movies like you do since I know you’re a long time fan, but the movies were always financed and distributed through American studios, right? I don’t know when Sony took over the rights, maybe with the Craig films?

And my main point is that is that England studios doesn’t make $200 million films. I know Bond films has always been on the more expensive side, but I don’t think they were ever considered super costly movies in the past, at least through the 80s. I think it was the Daniel Craig era when those budgets got crazy expensive, but I could be wrong. You can certainly correct me on that.

No, because it makes no sense if you are spending that kind of money on movie that could bomb and already HAS bombed with that kind of money. ;)

Make it under $150 million! And that way if the next movie makes only $340 million, you keep your job lol.

Make it under $150 million! And that way if the next movie makes only $340 million, you keep your job lol.

Here we are spending all of this time back and forth, and yet we are only $25 mil apart now!

OK, make it for $162.5 mil then and let’s move on…lol ;-)

OK, that’s fine, but you’re still missing the point. There is no law that says a movie has to keep the same budget lol. Because, ONCE again, movies can be made at different costs!

So again, your point is moot. Nothing says you have to keep spending more on movies. Hollywood does it, but they don’t HAVE to do it. They didn’t have to spend $200 million on Black Widow. They could’ve spent half that right? They only spent that because they stuff as much spectacle, CGI and action set pieces they can.

Obviously like everything, movies cost more to produce today, but you’re (no pun intended) inflating the idea these movies has some set price point. They don’t. There is probably a minimum you can make one but its not $230 million lol. That’s absurd.

And if you think they can only make a $200 million Star Trek movie, then are you surprised why we haven’t gotten one in six years and counting?

Do you want the next one to bomb?? Because trust me, if they were spending another $200 million then they are just setting themselves up for MORE failure. STID made $470 million at the height of the movie’s popularity and that’s still very low for a $200 million film. Then Beyond came along and made $120 million less for nearly the same price. That’s why we don’t have another movie today dude.

And that was six years ago. The newbies had moved on after STID and even the hardcore fans took a pass. The hype from these movies were over by the time Beyond came around, It wasn’t just bad marketing, people just stopped caring. And that was before we had 5 TV shows on the air. It’s not 2009 anymore and Paramount knows that.

And your solution is to triple down on the same budget for fading films? This is where your logic just makes zero, zero sense.

I agree your general philosophy about “why can’t they make a lower costing Star Trek movie,” sure! But my point is not moot, not by a long shot. If they could make a new Star Trek movie today for say $175 million, I don’t think you realize that they would have to really pinch the pennies and be creative given $175 mil isn’t what it was 10 years ago — you would be getting what you are calling for here in terms of a much more efficient and lower cost production with that level of budget.

PS: And if they then sell the same number of tickets that they sold for STID, that would bring in $550 mil today given ticket price inflation, so then you would be comparing 175 budget to 550 box office, which is very solid, and automatically greenlights the next film.

…BTW, for your Beyond earnings example, consider this: JJA didn’t direct it, unlike the first two. Say what you want about him, but his movies both did about $400 mil in business. He also grew the movie franchise earnings overseas like no one before had done.

LOL man, it’s like talking to a wall.

A. If you can only make a $175 million Star Trek film, well then we’re not getting anymore Star Trek films lol. Do you not see why it’s taken so long to get another one??? Because they don’t want to spend that kind of money (or even have that kind of money) on them because as the first three films showed, the ROI has not been worth spending $175 million on ANY of them thus far. So that’s the first problem and goes to the second point.

B. If you’re counting on them to spend the same number of tickets as STID, then its laughable man. I will say it again, STID came out a decade ago at the biggest height of its popularity. These films do not have that level of hype anymore. Paramount knows it. They had to do market research to even see if enough people wanted another Kelvin movie. Disney is not doing market research to see if people want another Black Panther or Captain America movie lol. And since those made over a billion dollars, they would roll the dice anyway. That’s what you’re not accepting which is odd to me because that was made clear with every movie that the audience was already shrinking.

C. Go back to your own crazy inflation argument and why it makes NO sense. According to you, they spend more with every movie and YET every movie has made less than the last one in the domestic market.

The first movie made $257 million in America.

Four years later, STID came out and made $40 million less than that one.

Three years later, STB came out and made $60 million less than that one.

And this was with ‘inflation’. Do you not see the trend here? It’s not going in the right direction dude. Between ST09 and STB, they lost literally $100 million between 3 movies in 7 years time in America, their biggest most reliable market. And yet, Paramount spent $40 million more on top of it. .

And reading your thoughts on this, I have a feeling where you thought Beyond was going to play out, Now tell me if I’m wrong, but I have a feeling that before Beyond came out you ALSO had an overly rosy estimate. I’m guessing you estimated around $400 million abroad and probably around $200+ million in America or at least what STID did. Maybe even more. Maybe I’m totally off here but you obviously thought it would do better than it did, right looking at how rosey its here. And for the record, I did too…by $60 million lol. Hey sometimes we have an off year. ;)

And if you DIDN’T think it would/ve did better, why in Kahless name would you give $175 million to another dud of a film??

So again, your solution is to spend $200 million dollars on a fading franchise that was already losing money when these films were at the height of their popularity? And 7-8 years later??


If it was up to me, I would’ve scrapped the Kelvin films completely. Start over with a new cast with half the cost. And frankly that still might happen, because Paramount is clueless.

If you read what I was saying, I said try to bring it in for $175 mil, which would be an actual substantial reduction in budget in today’s dollars versus the earlier movies, which I thought was your whole point? Because that movie, if good, makes around $500 mil globally…but even if it only brings in $425 mil globally (which is only a bit more that the poorly marketed Beyond made if you factor in ticket inflation), the profit numbers still work.

I will agree with you that if they really wanted to lower the costs the would need to re-cast it. But then after that new cast gets through their 2 or 3 movie deal, and want the bigger paychecks, we are right back where we started with a more expensive movie.

Anyway, we are not really getting anywhere here. How about we agree to disagree and move on?

No, my point is $175 million is a ridiculous number for a movie franchise that only averages $400 million. It should be far lower than that.

But OK, we’ll agree to disagree.


This is how Paramount was probably hoping the Kelvin movies would go. Take Captain America as an example!

First movie,Captain America: The First Avenger only made $370 million. It actually made less than the first Kelvin movie.

Second movie, Captain America: Winter Soldier made $715 million.

Third movie, Captain America: Civil War made $1.1 billion.

And the first two movies cost less than the first two Kelvin movies.

That’s why these movies are in a stalemate today. NONE of them probably reached the expectations Paramount was originally aiming for. The first movie did well enough but they only gave the sequels more money because the expectation was the sequels would gain a higher footing, especially aboard. They probably wanted something like this, start low but build up by hundreds of millions with each movie. That never happened. If the next movie makes more than $400 million that will be a surprise to me, but its doable.

They may have thought that, but if Beyond had made on the level of the first two ($400 mil), we’d be talking about Star Trek 5 right now, because they would have pulled the trigger on what Pine and Hemsworth wanted for the Kirk and his dad Trek 4 movie.

They may have thought that, but if Beyond had made on the level of the first two ($400 mil), we’d be talking about Star Trek 5 right now, because they would have pulled the trigger on what Pine and Hemsworth wanted for the Kirk’s dad movie.

LOL this is the ENTIRE point that’s being made. You just said it. Yes if Beyond did what the others did, we would be having a very different conversation.

But it didn’t! So now we’re having a very different conversation. The problem is you seem to want to just overlook the fact Beyond bombed, but Paramount doesn’t have that same luxury, even under new management, because they still have to answer to the same shareholders. The movies were never big in the first place and the last one lost money, only the second movie in the franchise to do that. So from that point on, everything changed. It had to. Which is why SIX DAMN YEARS LATER lol, we are still waiting for a movie to be greenlit! Any movie!

You just said it, if Beyond did better, we would be on our fifth movie by now. But it didn’t and this is the new situation we been in for six looooong years. And dude, it could be several more years lol. And that’s because Beyond made them lose confidence in the franchise…and I can’t blame for that.

It took 12 years to get another TV show after Enterprise got cancelled, so 7-8 years is not THAT bad to get another movie. But it could be 12 years lol. I don’t think it will be, but who knows??? Because I can guarantee you no one thought it would be this long now. I thought getting a movie 5 years later would be crazy lol.

Either way, STOP making these $%$# announcements until you are certain you are going to make a movie. That’s all people are asking at this point.

I wrote you a long, detailed response, but for some reason it got ID’d as spam? We’ll see if it shows up later. Short response was that that Beyond was one of the worst marketed of any movie in recent memory (including moving the release date to during the summer Olympics…WTF, lol) — it was “John Carter-level marketing bad.” Paramount was near bankruptcy that year, and they botched it.

So Beyond is an outlier and can’t be used to try to disprove or prove any point you or I may try to make here.

PS: You are correct — I have been proven definitively wrong on my statements about the movie being under production by now. Yeah, of course I will no longer be saying that. You and Phil were right all along — I admit that.

Yeah, that’s been happening to me too. I think it’s some new system they put in. I’ve only seen it the last week or so. My advice, when it says spam, you can still see your message. Just tap on the edit button, copy and paste it BUT not before writing a word, pressing send and then put in your entire message again. I do that and its usually fine.

As for Beyond, I’m not saying any movie will bomb. That’s not my point at all. But AFTER Beyond, you can’t be so arrogant to think the next film is going to make $600+ million either. That’s my point, that’s literally what happened with Beyond lol. Right? All I’m saying man. They have to be more cautious now. Yes the next movie can do well. But you can’t assume that either. Not now. Now if the next one does well, then OK, then they can be more liberal with the budget.

But if we have another Beyond situation, then when do you think another will get made after all the struggles to get this one done? That’s all people are saying. And look at the geniuses handling the movie now? Do you still feel the next movie is in good hands? I don’t lol. So what makes you think they won’t bungle the marketing with the next one??

I am at least making sense, right? But I’m not convinced that was the only reason Beyond failed. I think the movie had a lot of other issues. The biggest one was it just felt like a generic Star Trek movie, ie, Insurrection. There was no hook, nothing special about it. And on top of that ANOTHER ubervillain wanting to take down the Federation. People got bored and didn’t care. So yeah Paramount certainly is to blame for how its marketed, but honestly it wasn’t something that was going to excite a lot of new and casual fans anyway and it tanked.

For the record I wasn’t totally convinced the movie was in major trouble but I was certain if nothing else they would have to push the date back because it’s nearly September and it was obvious no one was making a movie any time this year. So I’m not pretending I knew this would happen, but yes 100% prepared for it lol. At this point, how could anyone not be?

But Phil was convinced all along he knew it was a sham, so per usual he was right to the mark.

And lastly, dude we been arguing about movies being made for less and the biggest example I could’ve mentioned was TMP and TWOK lol. It was right there. TMP was the most expensive film at the time and then when that didn’t generate what they hoped then TWOK was one of the cheapest films made….and it worked out, right? They cut costs in a major way and ended up making a better film. At least IMO. ;)

And I’m not suggesting they have to go that drastic for the next one. But yes it’s proven you can definitely find ways to go lower. But I think the situation with Paramount is they still want a ‘big’ movie. So I get it obviously get it, but I think we’re going to be waiting much longer now no matter what the budget ends up looking like if its not cancelled altogether.

I think we’re all tired talking about if and when a movie will happen and like to talk about a $#%# movie before Star Trek turns 60.

OK, I can’t really fault any of your reasoning here in this post. I do think the the studio heads are looking at inflation and the economic conditions in the industry, and are probably having a bit of sticker shock on the investment needed if this next Trek movie is going to be another blockbuster type of movie. Maybe they will go a different route, and recast it, or make a new-cast reboot sort of movie to get the budget down by 1/3.

I personally think they will end up giving the Kelvin movies one more shot, but I do agree with you that it’s going to be risky to do that financially given the costs of the current cast, plus the expensive costs of production right now (for example, set construction costs are 30% freaking higher than one year ago).

Heck, I know you don’t like DSC, but after they wind up DSC in the next season or two, go straight to a DSC movie, and make it for $75 mil following your model — if it’s good, that makes over $250 mil worldwide at the very least. There’s a new Trek movie following your model, and they don’t have to start from scratch with a new cast and creative team — they would be ready to jump right into the movie.

OK, glad you understand my point.

And yes all of that is possible. Obviously they want to make another movie with the Kelvin cast and it could still happen of course. We’ll just have to see if they resolve the issues they have with it and it sounds like they have quite a few based on some new reports.

But I also agree if that movie ultimately doesn’t work out, they can make a Discovery movie in a few years down the line. Or a Picard one (although the way season 3 is looking, it’s basically a TNG show again). Or a SNW film. They actually discussed the possibility of a Prodigy film down the line. That might have the best potential because it’s trying to rope in younger kids and easily cost a lot less with big merchandising potential.

But I think all the shows have some potential, but like you said, with just lower budgets from the outset and geared more to P+.

And you keep saying I don’t like Discovery. Dude that’s not true, I just have (admittedly a lot of) issues with it like I did a lot of the previous shows and currently like it more than Picard. I definitely don’t love it, but it’s OK overall and like every show has some really solid episodes which I praised in the past. Maybe season 5 will turn me into a bigger fan. Fingers crossed.

Many have been waiting for MCU to do justice to FF and mix them up with its other characters

Lol, OK,

I could care less about the MCU. All i want is a decent X-men movie. And i don’t want to wait another 15 years to see it.

OMG, please no! No more X-Men, no more fantastic four, no more Spider-Man, no more Doctor Strange, no more overrated and inferior The Batman movies.

Bring back Zack Snyder and Christopher Nolan! Send them bags of cash!

Oh God. LOL. Seriously!?


Btw. This is Not the movie that hast been delayed for six years now. Its Not the same Project, Just because it is the 4. Movie in a row.

Yeah, I know, it’s the fifth! Still doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. ;)

And apparently it’s a new group of people now running Paramount vs the others who cancelled or postponed the last four projects….still the same issue.

Enterprise loses bridge, still moving forward towards planet.

Omg. LOL.

That actually happened in Star Trek III.

They made a THIRD movie? I gotta check that out.

Your analogy is sadly accurate. But they only lost the ship because there has never been anyone in the Captain’s chair long enough to steer it.

Proof that there is a God? :-)

I couldn’t stand that Wandavision mess of a series. We just dodged a major bullet here in my book.

Shakman, don’t let the door hit you in the keyster on your way out…bye, bye! ;-)

Oo snap!

If you think a show that garnered 23 Emmy nominations was a mess, then you really must be a troll.

Or you like to demonstrate that you have no idea how the television medium works.

Two And A Half Men — Emmy Awards & Nominations: 47 Nominations | 9 Emmys

Lol, nuff said!

JJ Abrams’s bubble seems to be really bursting these days. I heard several of his shows that were in development for HBO Max were also cancelled. Back in the day he was considered as a wonder boy in the business but these days he seems to be having difficulty getting things off the ground. Maybe he’ll just decide to direct this movie himself at the end.

Actually, I’m thinking that is more likely why Shakman isn’t directing this anymore. JJA became free, and wants it, and Paramount wants him to do it. I mean, I know Marvel is more popular than Trek, but ANOTHER Fantastic Four reboot, seriously?…that’s just not a very exciting opportunity, and I don’t think anyone is really clamoring for that lame property to get another shot. I think Shakman may have got nudged out here and made the best of things with that movie opportunity.

As I said to Tiger2 above, I would not be surprised if within 30 days it’s announced that JJA is directing Trek 4.

Cool story.


Ok. Refresh my memory. Senility is setting in. I know that Abrams bailed on Trek to direct a Star Wars movie and I think it was after the 2009 movie. Am I right? Why then would you want someone who showed absolutely zero allegiance to the franchise to direct?

Me wanting him to direct or not is a separate topic. Read my post again please. I am saying that I think this is what may be happening.

On that separate topic you just brought up, I see pluses and minuses of him returning, and do not feel strongly either way. However, I know I don’t want that Marvel TV fantasy schlock director anywhere near Star Trek.

But yet you want the guy who thought turning Khan into a British white guy and then lying about it for a year is a good fit for Star Trek??? Makes no sense to me. We don’t know what Shakman would’ve done, but we seen what Abrams did it’s proof the guy does NOT belong in Star Trek. He doesn’t get it or he doesn’t care. Khan made that perfectly clear.

I mean, he’s 1-1 in my book, and that’s the same record Frakes had with First Contact (like it) and Insurrection (couldn’t stand it). And that horrid Picard-Anuj love story (good grief that was just horrid…lol) was nearly as bad as Vanilla Ice Khan.

But yet Frakes got many more chances to direct Trek, so why should JJA be any different in terms of getting another shot?

Frakes understands and loves Star Trek. Abrams turned it into Star Wars.

Didn’t look like it in Insurrection. And how quickly everybody forgets how many fans bitched about his Picard S2 episodes just a few months ago.

I’d say overall, he’s about 50-50 in producing good verses bad Star Trek probably about the same as Abrams.

I disagree that he turned it into Star Wars. If you want to go there though then the whole Katra thing in Trek III is the closest thing to in the metaphysical realm to The Force in SW. and then we have the off-road vehicle chase scene in nemesis…lol

Insurrection was as TNG as you can get it! That was part of the problem, it felt TOO much like the show lol. So I don’t understand this point?

But most of Picard season 2 was awful including his episodes, so we agree on that unfortunately.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on Abrams. I just hope he stays far away from another Star Trek and Star Wars movie. And if he has to do one again, focus on SW. That’s his true love and let’s face it, where he makes more money with.

Not many people here seems like a big fan of his for a reason.

I agree that it felt like TNG — but TNG season 1/2 is what it felt like. That was the problem.

I’m not a big JJA fan, but I would like to optimistically think that he would learn from these lessons of the two sequels for SW and Trek, and give us a good third movie. He’s a smart enough guy I think to figure it out, and he’s been dealt both fan an studio rejection recently. Everyone loves a comeback!

Or maybe we can just find another director who makes good movies and already understands Star Trek?? Abrams doesn’t need to ‘learn his lesson’ or come back, he’s rolling in money no matter what. Most of us just want new blood in general.

Give it to a NEW director who can do something new and interesting with it. I don’t want Abrams back so we can hear a line in the next film that somehow Nero has returned. Or we end up with the next ubervillain trying to take down San Francisco again.

Noooooooo thank you!

I am not opposed to that, but be careful what you wish for.

I have no preferences for a director because I personally feel that that the main problem has been with the scripts. It does not matter how good the actors or the directors are if the script is not good. For me the 2009 movie was the best of the three Kelvin movies. STID was nothing more than TWOK redone with a role reversal. STB was OK but who would bring a motorcycle aboard a starship. Where were they planning to ride it? Halls of the ship or on some new planet to scare the native species. Necessary to the plot but not entirely believable in my opinion. One of the problems I think is lack of imagination in today’s writers. Look at all of the reboots of previously successful movies that are coming out. It just seems that 20th century writers can not escape the bounds of this century for Star Trek or write original scripts for others. That to me is one of the things that made TOS unique. IMAGINATION!

2009 was Star Wars A New Hope in a Star Trek setting. With a bit of Superman the movie and Top Gun. Into Darkness isn’t really a remake of Star Trek II even if it uses some characters, its unearned and there was no Space Seed. Its more about the war on terror and the threat to democracy. But its badly handled in some ways, if not wrongly in its ideal. IMHO Star Trek has always talked about issues when it has been at its best.

lol, nope.

I have no preferences for a director because I personally feel that that the main problem has been with the scripts. It does not matter how good the actors or the directors are if the script is not good. For me the 2009 movie was the best of the three Kelvin movies.

Well said!

Well, there is nowhere to go but up for Fantastic Four. That last reboot was one of the worst movies I’ve ever seen. I liked WandaVision well enough, but I don’t think it was anything to write home about. So I wish Shakman well, but his departure from Star Trek 14 doesn’t really worry me.

It is funny Abrams is the guy who ‘revived’ both Star Trek and Star Wars, and then pretty much marred them too. I don’t mind him producing another movie but I can only imagine how much the fanbase would be happy having him back directing after such fan gems like STID and TROS lol. I hope he stays far far away from the directing chair.

In fairness to JJA, Kathleen Kennedy botched the long term planning for the final trilogy, and JJA came in late to try to save the third films planning after Treverrow bowed out of Ep 10…and then freaking Rian Johnson kind of wrapped up most of the story at the end of Ep 9. So he was kind of left with a no-win scenario.

I think where he went wrong on STID was letting Bob Orci’s paranoid conspiracy worldview be the focus of the story, and then casting a white-Brit as Khan because the studio was too cheap to pay the $ for Benicio Del Toro. I didn’t really have a problem with the magic blood thing given we have sun slingshot time travel, katra transfers and protomatter in some of our fav Trek movies.

Still I rather they go with new blood. I just think Abrams is waaaaay too divisive in the fanbase these days. I wish they would move away from the Kelvin movies as well because I think it’s just been too long. But they seem intent of making another one so we’ll see…maybe lol.

maybe Last Jedi shouldve been Ep9 and Rise of Skywalker Ep8 (obviously not as simple as that but the plot elements/story lines switched, Lukes death at end of Ep9, Palpatine reintroduced earlier in 8 so not seem to slapdash, Lando on the Casino world, death of Leia in 8, etc). Ep9 probably wouldve made Force Awakens box office again had there been a build up to the finale like Avengers Endgame, whereas as you say Last Jedi felt as if it had wrapped everything up already lol

Wow, you may have a really good point there. LAST is pretty good in parts, immensely better than anything in RISE, and it would be going out on an ascending high note, and poignant as Hell to see Luke’s death bracketing Hans’ — but in service to achieving balance or victory. I can’t say I’m very passionate about SW — even the early ‘good’ pair — but I’d still like to see them make decent and rewatchable movies.

Yeah, LAST is my favorite Star Wars movies since the original trilogy. My pretend Star Wars series is a six movie series that starts with Revenge of the Sith an ends with the last Jedi – So I’ve written off the first two prequel movies and the RISE movie.

That’s one helluva thought too. I’ve only watched RISE once and I don’t think I’m likely to go there again, have seen AOTC only 1-1/2 times and while I have seen TPM maybe three times, that’s probably only because of the shot-on-film comfort factor.

somebody ought to put out an unauthorized book of fan ideas for ‘fixing’ these various franchises. It’d be an eyeopener and probably funny as all get out


I agree, I had issues with TLJ like others but it was a decent movie overall. But there were definitely a lot of things I hated in it like the Casino planet. TROS was just a mess of a story that was stuffed with cringing fan service and really awful leaps in logic. It was the worst version of STID only they didn’t turn the Emperor into an Indian guy and pretended he was really the Emperor all along.

Like I said I was OK originally with Abrams creatively involved with both Star Trek and Star Wars, but now I hope they keep him far away from both.

To be fair i’m surprised Rise of Skywalker worked at all considering they had like 10 months from writing to its release in theaters to make it. Disney is to blame. He had like 16 months to make force awakens and Rian had like 18 to make last jedi. Lucas always did the 3 year rule for a reason. Disney was greedy and in a rush.
Also Carrie Fisher the lead of the third sequel had passed and they already killed off Luke. And since they weren’t going to resurrect him JJ did the best he could.

There is lots of blame to go around for sure, Abrams wasn’t alone in that. But somehow Palpatine returned? Maybe if you can’t think of a logical way after ten months, just don’t use the guy.

I agree. At some point you need to make a stand and you should’ve said we just need one more year to get it right. Just like for Star Trek generations Shatner should’ve put his foot down and said no, we need to a short delay and figure out a better death scene, and give the writers more time overall to make this a better story

I read his Batman cartoon was canceled too. Even before they had locked down casting on actors. I was hoping Mark Hamill was going to play Joker again, oh well.

In JJ’s defense re: HBO Max, I think his various in development shows got axed not because of him but because of the WB/Discovery merger and the fact that the new head of Warner Bros. Discovery, David Zaslav, is hell bent on destroying every piece of scripted TV show owned by WB in favor of “reality TV” B.S.


This piling on of the dude here is over the top. He’s capable of making very good movies and TV series.

I’m not really defending him either ;) He’s actually pretty good at starting a story, but terrible at ending one. He also is not fit for Star Trek at all. While I did enjoy his first Star Trek, it had a very strong Star Wars feel to it (which is fitting since he always wanted to direct a Star Wars picture, and readily admits that he isn’t that big into Trek); but Into Darkness was just weird. It wasn’t bad per-say, and I didn’t hate it like some other Trek folks, but making Khan a British white dude was a terrible idea. And then the whole treatment of Section 31, which could have been a really fascinating examination of Starlet ideals, became nothing more than a corrupt admiral on a power trip. It is somewhat telling that the best of the Kelvinverse movies is the one J.J. had the least to do with (Beyond…obviously).

What is going on over at Paramount? This seems so bizarre. Especially given the original announcement, even though some of the cast’s schedules doesn’t work with their release date. And now they lost the director (again).

That seems to be the perpetual question.

And it’s the movie side only.

It makes one think that they got themselves into something with Bad Robot that’s been exceedingly difficult to extract themselves from while at the same time not being JJ Abrams priority. The announcement of greenlighting of this project with a release date and no talent committed has had the air of being driven by some contractual imperative.

I wonder how much further this can fail before they can kill it for non-performance.

But after the complete idiocy over at WBDiscovery over DC and Cartoon Network properties this week, Paramount is looking well run.

The day they announced this movie without telling the cast was clearly the first sign this movie was just a PR exercise. Most of us stayed positive because why in Kahless name would you announce a movie you had no real intention of making? And yet, six months later, does anyone see a plan? Remember in that official ‘announcement’ they were supposedly in negotiations with the cast to bring them back only for the actors to say no one has even called them in the last few months. There has been NO movement on the movie since February other than losing its director. So it tells you a lot.

I don’t know anything about the BR deal but how long is it suppose to last?? I remember people were saying after Beyond, it was done and six years later it’s still there. The ONLY thing I can guess is it got extended at some point and more than likely mostly due to the Mission Impossible movies because those actually make a ton of money and Star Trek was just thrown in as a continuation.

I no issue if BR continues producing the movies if it gets us more movies. But since that hasn’t been the case, then I don’t see the point of the partnership anymore.

Six years, five movie announcements and four directors later, we still are back in the same boat lol. Unbelievable.

WTF is going on at Paramount????

I have been saying (with many others) I won’t believe a movie is happening until everyone is signed on and they are all standing on a set somewhere in costume repeating their lines (and obviously whichever new director gets the job now). UNTIL that day happens, it’s nothing but more BS from these people as its been for 6 years now.

And for people who keep telling the rest of us we’re just being too cynical about it…um this is why lol. I think that cynicism is well earned at this point. ;)

My line is even more cynical than yours. I will not believe that a new movie is being made until I am sitting in a theater watching the post movie credits scroll down the screen. Star Trek fans have been jerked around too long and too many times to believe ANYTHING that comes from Paramount. I know that I am not the Star Trek fan that I once was and it is partly due to all of the misinformation or lack of information being given to fans from Paramount.

I remember when you told me this before and sadly you are probably more right about it. These productions can get cancelled even after filming progresses. It’s rare but as we recently seen it can happen.

They are so hesitant to even make another movie to the point why are you even bothering then??? This not a situation that they have to make a movie or they lose the license, certainly not now. Either make one or just put it on the back burner for a few years until you simply feel confident enough in your product. It’s very obvious they don’t. We know when a studio does feel confident when you are paying Tom Cruise all kinds off money to film two Mission Impossible movies back to back, one in the middle of the pandemic.

There is NO reason for these Star Trek movies to keep having the trouble they do, not when they done it 13 times already and the last 3 with the same cast and crew. They simply have no faith in it.

Sad but true. We are what Paramount has made us– CYNICAL and NON-BELIEVERS.

By the way these days you shouldn’t even be content when a film is actually filmed. There is a potential danger for it going the way of the Batwoman film. So like Lynn says, I won’t be convinced until I actually watch the film.

Writing off a shot movie is a really huge deal — how many times have you ever heard about that happening? Having it happen with a Trek project would be especially insane, given that you have a core number of people who would do anything to see it, even in incomplete form. Plus you just know somebody would leak it digitally — this wouldn’t turn into a case of ‘original MAGNFICENT AMBERSONS cut lost to the ages’ even if the studio had a lot of company men like Robert Wise was (my main problem with the guy, him not smuggling a workprint out is probably one of talkie cinema’s Original Sins) riding herd on things.

Does Paramount have the cash to burn to actually film a big budget movie and then not release it? As long as you’re just wrting script drafts and talking to directors the costs stay relatively low and the studio doesn’t lose too much canceling a project.But once you’ve shot it you lose much more if you change your mind.

Well, the question then becomes did WarnerDiscovery’s actions with Batwoman opened the floodgates or is it just a one off thing? Hopefully its one-off but you never know in this day and age.

One thing that can be said is that being associated with failed Trek movies has been good for several people’s careers. Matt Shakman gets to make a Marvel movie. The showrunners of the new Lord of the Rings series wrote the failed Kirk meets his dad movie. S.J. Clarkson is making the Madame Web movie,

Hasn’t done much for Orci though has it?

LOL losing a Star Trek movie is a career booster! I guess more directors and writers will get in line now and get a shot at a bigger franchise when the new movie is cancelled 9 months later.

Yup. Tiger2 that’s what it will take to believe it will be made.

But it’s gone so far that lynn may have a point. While Paramount’s not the content producer to go the route of a complete write off, there’s still the option of a WBDiscovery style write-off for taxes while in post decision as they did with Batgirl this week.

Yeah the Batgirl thing is pretty crazy. I think that shocked everyone. BUT I will also say they have so many DC projects coming they can justify it (I guess).

In Paramount’s case, we’re not talking about 12 different Star Trek movies, we’re talking ONE lol. That’s what is frustrating about this. They don’t have multiple projects like the TV side has, we are talking just one film. Sure if it’s successful, it will probably get us a sequel but there doesn’t seem to be any ambitious plans of making the movie side anything than a film every few years as it’s always been. And even that has run into a snag.

I don’t pretend to understand everything over the Batgirl situation but I would THINK if it was the only DC property they had they would’ve released on HBOMax, but that whole merger is just creating all kinds of weird problems now. I love HBOMax,it’s my favorite streaming service bar none. but I worry that will have less content and quality as they continue to slash movies and shows there.

They better make more Tom Cruise Mission Impossible movies and a Top Gun 3 then. Its the only thing that makes them money. Paramount obviously has no faith in Star Trek.

Maybe if we want to see a movie before 2030, Simon Pegg or JJ Abrams should talk Tom Cruise into having a role in the next movie. He doesn’t have to even have a huge role, he can just be an admiral or something in a few scenes. But of course one scene where he and Captain Kirk are doing a HALO jump together because you need something for the trailers and for Cruise to still be Cruise.

If he decides he wants to do a Star Trek movie, watch Paramount get off its @$$ and the movie would be in production in less than 6 months. You get Cruise to convince his partner Christopher McQuarrie to write and direct it, they would probably throw more money at it.

That’s what these movies need, REAL star power for them to care. Right now, it’s just a dwindling franchise with no real star power in front of or behind the camera but still with ridiculous budgets.

Quentin Tarantino!!!!!!!!!

I still want that movie!

Ugh. A guy less in line with the spirit of Star Trek it’s hard to imagine.

No thanks.

Beyond it being completely anathema to many fans, the more we heard about his idea the less it spin like he had a clue how the Universe or Multiverse works.

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no


Tell me how you really feel? (-;

Yes. yes. yes. yes. yes. yes. yes. yes. yes. yes. yes. yes. yes. This!!!

Yea, I mean given all the apparent hate for the Kelvin universe anyway, why not experiment a bit and give this a shot. If it’s original, unique and great, that’s a good thing. If it sucks, then all fans who want Kelvin to go away will get their wish.

So everybody kind of wins if they roll the dice and let QT give this a shot.


He had his time to do it, he moved on and it was clear the studio hated his idea anyway and everyone thankfully moved on! Because It sounded AWFUL!

So that star ship has warped out!

Maybe the poor performance of Beyond and the fan enthusiasm for the prime universe, specifically for SNW, is making the execs at Paramount nervous about spending money on another kelvin movie and they are simply dragging their feet until one of the new shows is ready to cross over from television to the big screen.

They have waited way too long for another Kelvin movie. They might have to start again with another reboot or something else entirely new.

I think all of those are viable issues. When Beyond didn’t perform as hoped when it was the 50th anniversary and it was the sole Star Trek product in the marketplace, that was alarming enough.

Now it’s been six years after the fact, fans are less interested in the Kelvin universe than they were a decade ago. The Prime universe is thriving again with five TV shows and characters like Picard, Pike, Janeway and etc are all back and it’s kind of hard to make the next Kelvin movie a very unique product when people can watch Trek every week for a much lower cost. And on top of that, they are probably afraid of spending a huge amount of money again which I think is the real issue.

And the reality is another movie won’t happen until 2024 the earliest. These movies keep getting moved back. They should’ve had one out in 2020 the latest. It just feels like they waited too long and too many people have lost interest.

For the record, before people start typing, it doesn’t mean the next film won’t make money or be a big hit. It very well can. The problem is there is no guarantee of it anymore and where the problem lies. They would be taking a gamble with the next film and they know it. It could pay off big or it could bomb worse than Beyond did and that’s ultimately the issue IMO.

Instead of all these ridiculous movie announcements, they should put the movies on the backburner and come up with a real game plan they can all feel comfortable with even if that takes a few more years instead of just dicking both fans and the creatives around.

I think all of those are viable issues. When Beyond didn’t perform as hoped when it was the 50th anniversary and it was the sole Star Trek product in the marketplace, that was alarming enough.

If they complain that it didn’t perform well although it was the the 50th anniversary, then they should have used the 50th anniversary to promote the movie better and tie it with a big story.
Instead of that, they wasted that once in a lifetime opportunity and even dropped the name Star Trek” from the promotion.

Yep, soooooo true!

I think it’s further proof maybe Paramount shouldn’t be making these movies anymore. The TOS films were really the only movies I thought they did at least a half decent job with. The TNG and Kelvin movies have been pretty spotty. I did think they did an excellent job with the first Kelvin movie in terms of marketing and hype but its only gotten worse after that film.

Everything about the third movie was a disaster though, from cutting Orci lose after production started to how they marketed Beyond. It’s still a surprise that movie at least turned out decent even if not a huge crowd pleaser, but it should’ve been so much worse lol. But oddly Paramount have themselves to blame for how poorly that film did because how poorly they marketed it and not having the 50th as part of a massive campaign to help promote it.

And again, it was so weird because they fought so hard to have a movie in the theaters for its 50th anniversary but proceeded to do squat with it.

LOL ‘a priority for the studio’ NOBODY believes that!

This news was also reported 3 days ago on GiantFreakingRobot:

According to our trusted and proven source, however, that’s going to change in the near future. There’s a Star Trek TV series set in the Kelvin Timeline currently in development which will ultimately stream on Paramount+ alongside the platform’s other Trek shows.

I was just about to make a joke how ST IV now takes more time to get realized than TMP did and finally gets morphed into a tv show, because they cant decide wether it should be a movie or a tv show…. Which already is SNW when it evolves into TOS…
Bur seriously: unlike TMP they dont have to start from the scratch…

Nonsense. GFR have been talking out of their asses for years. Just click bait and rumours.

Yeah it’s the same site that said Scott Bakula was coming back to Star Trek to play Archer again a year and a half ago and that a Picard movie was in the works just a few months ago. I got so sick of their BS articles I blocked them from my Google Feed. They are about as reliable and trustworthy as Quark trying to sell you a moon. ;)

Keep in mind, though, that GiantFreakingRobot has no sources, “trusted and proven” or otherwise. They make crap up ALL THE TIME, just to draw people in. They’re a clickbait site that makes TMZ and AICN look like The Wall Street Journal, and their track record for telling the truth is poor. I wouldn’t take seriously anything they post until you see it also reported by sites with journalistic credibility and actual writers.

I’d actually sent a few freelance writer pitch inquiries to GFR before I read up on how suspect they are; is it weird that they never responded, or do you think they just realized, ‘if we try to deal with a pro, it’ll backfire.’

Oh, I’m sure it was the second category. There is nothing journalistic about GiantFreakingRobot, so they’d have no use for journalists.

Yeah you’re probably right – I just wanted to share it given the topic of the article here.

Fair enough, and understandable.

Until it is reported by Deadline, Variety, or Hollywood Reporter, don’t believe it.

This movie isn’t happening without a director attached. Bad Robot/Abrams can’t get anything off the ground lately. Maybe Bob Orci’s phone will ring after 6 years. Would that constitute a joke?

There is still his unused script for ST 3 whioch was considered TOO trekkie…maybe they could resurrect it and make a real Star Trek movie…

if i had my wish, itd be Orcis ST3 script (co starring Shatner, Bryan Cranston, Alice Eve) with Frakes directing (imagine the BTS photo of Frakes directing Shatner!)

I’m thinking you stage it like a baseball manager bumping bellies with an umpire.

Shatner is doing great for his age but I doubt he’d be able to do a multi month shoot on a major movie. And man it would be so awful if he died on set.

A couple days on set (the important stuff), a stand in for rest.(and deepfake) ;

Basically the same deal as Bruce Willis for his last few stdvd stuff

I came across an interview a few weeks back were Shatner admitted he’s huffing and puffing his way through a few of his daily activities now. Considering he’d be close to this 93rd birthday during principle photography, the polite comment here is that ship has sailed ..



Please, no.

Star Trek 4 — The Kennedy Reanimation Borg Conspiracy

Damn. Well, you got to admit Marvel has their crap together. Can you imagine us getting multiple ST movies and shows every year!?!?

Well, we’re getting several shows every year at least. The movies not so much.

Really? The movies mostly are kind of average now and my son and I decided to stop going to see them in the theater after that Doctor Strange mess of a movie this spring. And the word-of-mouth we heard on the Thor movie wasn’t all that great.

Because Marvel brings in billions of dollars every year and they do have a plan they never waivered from. People are criticizing it more since phase 4 really does feel more like just throwing in content for content sake than a real plan like the other phases, but it hasn’t stopped people from watching it just as much as before.

With Star Trek, clearly its not Marvel lol. But we are getting multiple shows, maybe not as many but definitely more than we had. And I think the shows are obviously doing fine enough but I don’t think any of them are being watched at a fraction the Marvel shows are or they would put up their viewing numbers on Nielsen like Disney+ does.

I would certainly like to see the movies done like the shows are done, different characters in different time periods and even universes. Yeah do a few movies in the Kelvin verse and a few in the Prime universe. Make a crossover event every few years and so on. But that’s all clearly a pipe dream since trying to release a single movie these days is obviously a huge hurdle. And if the next one underperforms like Beyond did, then who knows when another one will ever show up.

Pine keeps reiterating that he has yet to see a script. I’m assuming the script isn’t even done yet. No wonder directors will move on.

At this point, I wouldn’t be shocked that Shakman never saw the script.

A year in and he walks, it’s got to be something of that order.

I believe he took a stab at a draft himself. I think Paramount balked at whatever the writers came up with because it was just too costly to produce.

That’s always been my guess too. I think beyond scheduling, the cast, director, blah, blah, blah, they are having a hard time trying to make a cheaper movie. And that’s partly because they have a more expensive cast and has to find ways to make things cheaper in the story itself.

It’s why I doubted they would even do another Kelvin movie because it’s just too costly. But then they probably figure its better to do a movie with a cast people know instead of starting from scratch. But that still may end up being the case if they can’t make a cheaper film as it nearly was when they went with Noah Hawley’s idea.

No script. No cast. No sets. Just “development”. Just because so many people were mouthing off that JJ has nothing to do, I did a little poking around. He has plenty to do, even with WB paring back some of his projects. One criticism that has emerged from WB is that Bad Robot develops projects at a glacial pace. No s**t….

If Paramount is serious about another Trek movie, it’s time to find a new production house. Bad Robot is clearly at capacity.

Well Phil, once again you were right lol. We should call you the movie whisperer on this board.

And yeah I don’t buy the fact Abrams is just sitting at home in his castle trying to keep busy lol. The guy still has tons of projects and probably working on potential directing ideas he wants to do, none of its just been official yet.

I don’t even understand how we started talking about him directing? I think once he got Star Wars, his time with Trek was definitely over because that’s where is heart really wanted to be anyway. Please please keep this one note ‘visionary’ away from Star Trek again. After STID and TROS, he shouldn’t be near any Star Trek or Star Wars films creatively. It’s not 2009 anymore, the shine has rubbed off Abrams long ago.

And yeah I also agree maybe its time to find someone new to produce the movies since BR doesn’t seem to have any clout anymore to get one off the ground.

Jonathan Frakes !



Love to see Frakes do this!

Yeah would love to see Frakes return too! He actually gets and understands Star Trek. Insurrection wasn’t great but it was the story that was bad, not his direction.

I remember Frakes lobbied for the job after Orci was let go and obviously it didn’t happen, but it would be nice to see him put his hat in the ring at least.

it might actually be Frakes this time as a sort of make up to the fans..like ‘OK we know we’ve screwed you around but guess what you getting Frakes!’ I mean what Trek fan wouldn’t love Frakes coming back..itd create a great positive vibe. Of course the script/story would have to be up to epic FC standards (probably multiverse Kelvin-Prime stuff) otherwise it’d be Insurrection/Beyond dull two part episode time again and nobody wants that

Yeah it very well could be another Frakes movie on the horizon. I don’t think it will be one at the cost of $150+ million, but one with a more moderate budget.

I would love to see Frakes back making another Star Trek film. Nemesis would’ve been a lot better in his hands IMO. The story was bad but the direction was just awful.

Anyway I guess we’ll have to see where all of this goes. They need to pick a plan and as Janeway would say, DO IT!!!! It’s gotten ridiculous. It just hit me a day ago it’s already been 5 years when we heard reports of a Tarantino movie lol. Five freaking years ago!! Where does the time go?

Remember how certain people acted like that movie was a done deal? I remember having this argument by a former poster here who got on my case because I simply questioned if a Tarantino film would even happen since, LIKE this movie, there was really no movement outside of a script written. But many were convinced once his Manson movie was all wrapped up, then Star Trek would be next. It just keeps reiterating the fact that there are no guarantees this movie will ever get made by anyone. Five years later and we are still waiting for a movie just to be shot, much less released! Sigh

RiP Matt Shakman, yet another casualty in the long line of individuals attached to the near mythical ST4 (or STXIV now Primeverse is a thing again). actually he was quite an interesting choice as WandaVision dealt with the various different eras of television so itd have been interesting to see his version of Trek in perhaps bringing something of the various eras of Trek to the movie (over of the standard crash-bang-wallop action with a khan like villain of the previous 4-6 films)

as for who could take over, JJA is an obvious choice. perhaps dusting off the Hemsworth/Kirks father script (adapted from the lost Orci Shatner ST3?) like he talked up in 2016. the reason i say that is hes a Spielberg disciple and fathers/absent fathers was a big theme of most of his films. also Hemsworth would no doubt be more interested if JJ was directing again. and The Mighty Thor headlining a Trek film is something that might make Paramount sleep a little easier (except we all know itd make little difference to the box office). Others would be Tarantino and his Gangster Trek (lol cmon itd be great.. and surely it wouldnt just be Piece of the Action, itd probably be spliced up with City on the Edge meets Yesterdays Enterprise, and theres no way hed leave out Shatner either, and think of all the QT stars whod be lining up to be in it: BPitt, KRussel,SLJ, Leo, MRobbie etc ), Lin who exited FastX (but after Beyond i hope not, bc damnit i just did not dig that movie! i know its not on him bc it was the script but still..) or even Frakes? (#bringinriker,again. finally freedom after a 20y sentence of Thunderbirds movie jail!)

Remember Quentin Tarantino once guest starred in JJ Abrams series Alias so I think they have a connection and what might be plausible is Abrams directing the Trek film that is written and produced by Tarantino as Tarantino doesn’t want to make this his last movie to direct.

possible but the Tarantino script is most likely tailored toward Tarantino , unless it were he directing there might be a ‘whats the point of this’ vibe maybe .

if Tarantino did direct Trek he could just pass it off as being part of a franchise, not an original feature as with his previous films so wouldnt have to count toward his ’10 films and done’

Tarantino wasn’t even planning to direct his own Star Trek concept.

Did Simon Pegg really used to be a movie star many years ago or was that all a wild dream?? I like those interviews wherein he appoints himself Amateur Anthropologist about America, though he isn’t exactly Graham Greene, is he.

Pegg’s IMDb page is filled to the rim with current and recent jobs. He still is a big-name star, with multiple roles in Star Wars shows, as well as in the Mission: Impossible films, Ready Player One, the Dark Crystal TV show, Archer, The Boys, The Undeclared War, and a ton of other popular properties. Right now, he’s working on two Mission: Impossible movies, and he’s got a few other films coming out soon. So I’m not sure what you mean.

The movie is never happening.

It would be better to invest the funds into another streaming series.

Agreed. This project has been in “development hell/limbo” longer than the Section 31 series.

It’s not necessarily a bad thing. Trek is always at its best as episodic television!

Just get Brian DePalma, most of the cast who is available and make it a bottle episode movie. In fact, set it mostly on the Bridge.

Tarantino and celebrity actors can be all the aliens with non-speaking roles filled by fans.

Release it in record time; like three months after shooting.

It’s likely to better than anything they work on for this long.

De Palma would be an awesome choice, and continue the Mission Impossible/Trek connections . hes in his 80s now but so what Ridley Scott is still doing movies

I would prefer David Cronenberg since he is in the franchise currently as an actor. Give him some money and get him to direct the picture and he did come back recently as a director with a film so he might want to continue the momentum.

Cronenberg at least respects the work of the franchise.

But it would likely have to be a Toronto based shoot. He doesn’t get out of his hometown to direct unless he needs a specific overseas location.

Can’t imagine DePalma wanting anything to do with TREK. Plus I had my fill of split field diopters on TMP (admittedly, he is very skilled in their use, but a little goes a L O N G way … )

Plus he wouldn’t make an economical film, look at MISSION TO MARS (if you absolutely must.) Cost a hundred mil, plus it went through something like 50 drafts (the draft I read was like 43 or 44 and it was still largely different from finished film, with whole sequences involved in getting down to Mars after ship is totalled. Hard to believe that the project began as a quasi-remake of QUATERMASS AND THE PIT/FIVE MILLION YEARS TO EARTH, given that you only really get a bit of that during the ludicrous history lesson video at the end.)

I didn’t see that. You are right, I guess. I remember the trailer was unimpressive. I just mean that if DePalma was stuck with a very small budget, he could probably do a lot. Maybe we should all just make a “fan pitch” and plan for 40 – 50 million dollar budget.

Given that Abrams has lost pretty much all of his projects over at WB, maybe He should return as the director. He did a great job with the 2009 movie and while Into Darkness was divisive, you can’t fault the direction, it was a slick production. Justin Lin is also someone who proved himself with a great Star Trek movie in Beyond.

Maybe going for a director who has worked on Discovery or Strange New Worlds is perhaps the better idea. Jonathan Frakes is another name I would consider, given that he has proven himself an outstanding director. I think Paramount have some decent choices, a female director would be superb and an up and coming director would also be cool too. I think Star Trek is broad enough in its appeal for the next movie to be a test bed for a new director to cut his or her teeth on.

I’ve got to be honest, Matt Shackman was never a name I’d been all that impressed with.

“I’ve got to be honest, Matt Shackman was never a name I’d been all that impressed with.”


We dodged a bullet

I agree that both JJ’s Trek movies were very well directed, well produced blockbusters. But the last movie he wrote and directed was Rise of Skywalker, which was the most disappointed I’ve ever felt coming out of a theater and was bad on both writing and direction. Despite previously declaring myself a JJ fan, after that movie I don’t want him anywhere near any franchise I care about.

Yep! How I feel as well. And I was one of the people excited for him directing Star Trek and Star Wars, but the results have been very very mixed to the point it leaves a bad taste in my mouth I can’t get rid of.

Ugh. Just give it up.

We don’t need a star trek movie. We have star trek where it needs to be, on television. A movie is no longer necessary.

This is bad. We are approaching a record-breaking hiatus this Christmas. For the first time since 1978, no new Trek movie has released within 6.5 years… Fortunately, a lot is going on on TV these days but I still want my Trek movie fix ASAP :-)

If this project ever gets made, I wonder if Paramount will actually release it to theaters or move it directly to P+? The last Trek film to land in theaters did so on the year of the franchise’s 50th anniversary, and Paramount’s film division couldn’t be bothered to properly promote it.

They probably will but only for 6 weeks before landing on P+. I suspect P+ is the main reason they are trying to make a movie. But I don’t think they expect the film to be a big hit in theaters but will drive streaming traffic for awhile and why I think they want a much lower budget film. These films are not going to be the driving force like they wanted them to be before with the same ridiculous budgets. I think they come to their senses on that at least, but probably why they keep getting cancelled or postponed.

I think a better solution is to make one under $100 million, run it in theaters for a few weeks and basically promote it to hell for P+ and be part of the other movies and shows.

I think that would be a viable solution;Trek films are never going to be the big cinematic draws that Marvel and Star Wars can pull off. However, if P+ is the sole reason they are trying to get this movie made, I would personally just prefer they announce that they’ve started work on the next streaming series. P+ can fill 2023, but 2024 is going to have a live-action hole in it. Even if they start work on a new series right now, it wouldn’t be ready until mid-2024, so tick tock.

Just throwing it out there but maybe they should try and see if Stuart Baird can direct this one.


Or maybe Robert Wise could do it via seance.

Don’t give the handful of TMP fans any ideas! ;)

I like that idea!

Worst idea ever.

Except for the one about Kurtzman, I mean.

Here we go again.

JJ will return he has nothing better to do WB want to end his big bucks contract as he has not delivered he might as well direct it!!

Gosh. Just let it die already. Nobody cares about the kelvinverse anymore. Paramount/CBS have been quite successful with the tv side of things – my advice is: run with that and forget about the movies. Less headaches that way.

I’m not pining for more Kelvin movies, but I would like more movies in general. I think the Kelvin movies, or at least in this form, had their time, but it’s become very divisive in the fanbase (but honestly, what ISN’T divisive in the fanbase today outside of SNW lol).

But they should just start over with the movies, put them in the prime universe since that’s clearly what most fans want and make them more geared to Paramount+. They don’t need to be $200 million, thrown up on IMAX, have a run in China, etc. Just forgot all of that. Just make smaller movies again where they can at least make a profit but not trying to chase a billion dollars. That’s just not going to happen.

Make a movie for around $80 million with a new cheaper cast. Play it in theaters for 6 weeks and then put it on P+.

Exactly! Keep the movies at a lower budget than before. It’s just common sense. Star trek is never going to do Marvel/ star wars business – no shame in that. So there’s no need do go huge with they production values. Just put the thing on P+, they should experiment. I’m sure us fans would embrace it (assuming it’s good)

Yep, that’s really the direction they should be going in. And if they do try and go big again just to fall on their face like Beyond, my guess is any Star Trek movie after that will be smaller movies for P+ from that point on. But they really should be going that way for this film if it ever gets made.

It’s been one roadblock after another, concerning the making of the fourth Kelvin Star Trek film. I sure hope it gets done, although I am willing to wait longer for a release date as long as it is done RIGHT.

With SNW, I am totally uninterested in a new movie.

No way a decent movie comes out of this studio.

Biggest hit in years. Top Gun Maverick. Its not Star Trek though.

This probably not going to be a popular comment, but….. as much as the JJverses Trek tried – and they were not bad – just not great – Though IMO, Beyond was really the best of the 3. I really do not understand the desire to attempt to keep trying to make these movies within the Kelvin universe.
TBH, with the Paramount+ series really establishing themselves with success and all the various titles/shows already making the essense of bringing (or trying for those critics or skeptics, etc.) Trek back…….I just don’t see the point in trying to make these Kelvin universe Treks anymore.
There is so much “prime” universe stories to tell and explore that there is enough Trek to really continue forward in the Tv/Streaming platform.
There is really too much time that has passed for the Kelvin universe movies/stories to be relevent anymore – and all due respect, the Kelvin universe movie(s) going forward probably will not do as well as they are hoping or expecting…… because right now, none of them can hold a candle to the success of any of the Paramount+ series.
‘Nuff Said. ;-)

Not everyone is a fan of the Trek on Paramount+ service and would enjoy seeing a new Kelvin movie. Just a reminder that not all fans feel as you do.

Jonathan Frakes?

Guys, enough already. Call me. I’ll direct it.

I’ve never directed anything in my life. But I’ll do it.

Maybe you could write the score…

This movie’s never going to get made. The numbers just don’t add up.

Having said that, if Paramount is willing to commit to an $80-90 mm budget, I could see them doing something on Paramount+, but not with the Kelvin cast. Given all the shows they are running or planning, though, I really don’t know what that would look like. Perhaps a mashup of their live action shows (kind of like the upcoming Law & Order mashup on NBC).

Agreed. I think Paramount knows a big budget movie is too much of a risk these days and that Star Trek movies needs to be smaller again. Making a $90 million film with a cheaper cast and geared to Paramount+ is just a more feasible option. We love Star Trek, but we have to admit it’s not going to be the next Harry Potter or Batman. It just has a ceiling as a franchise.

And it’s not 2009 anymore. We are in a very different place in both the media world and Star Trek itself. And maybe the movies could’ve broken out to something bigger at the time, but sadly Paramount squandered it badly by too many delays and resting on the same boring formula three movies in. Now only the old fans really care once again and as Beyond showed, it’s still not enough of us to make a $200 million film profitable enough.

Just hand Kurtzman the keys already. He can build up from the TV shows, make profitable movies for the price of a TV season and bring about a Star Trek Cinematic Universe, integrated with the TV shows. That’s what worked for Star Trek in the past (movies thought by the TV division, integration with TV), and It is the OBVIOUS way to go. A movie per year, different corners of the Universe, budget in check. There’s no real mystery to it. Just do it, Paramount!

It’s a crazy thought that rewards mediocrity.

I honestly have no idea why after the merger the TV side and movie side aren’t working together. It makes no sense to have Two Star Trek worlds. Its time to bring them into one universe or end the kelvin timeline.

Somebody please call Nicholas Meyer!

He gave an interview yesterday & said when asked he would do another but only if he had the same creative control as his other 2!

Personally, I’d like to see what a completely different team would do. Christopher Nolan is the obvious person to direct a Star Trek film.

I’ve done two short interviews with Nolan, and my take is that he was much more entranced by Disney’s THE BLACK HOLE than with anything of TREK. People used to always say Ridley Scot was ideal for TREK, but I’ve never seen any indication he had interest in it either, and you just know he wouldn’t stand for the dollar constraints Par would likely have inflicted on his vision. I’m thinking that if he did FIRST CONTACT (which was the only film that I remember there being any talk about approaching him), it would have cost closer to double what Frakes spent. [EDIT ADD-ON: Scott has gotten more financially conscious this century, but that is largely owing to digital aspects of filmmaking that weren’t readily available or deployed back then.]

Back on Nolan: it may have to do with his having seen TBH at an impressionable age (slightly older than I was when I was ruined for other movies by Kubrick’s 2001), and I think it definitely fed into the making of INTERSTELLAR. I also think INT was the film that killed the remake of BLACK HOLE Kosinski hoped to do after OBLIVION.

Having said all that, I gotta throw this out there: one of my TNG spec scripts (not the one that got me in to pitch there, this is the one that I think they stopped reading on page 18, since that is where the page was folded down when I got it back) is a really out-there take on black holes, one that I believe Greg Benford got into a couple years later, and I have always kind of thought of it as TMP meets THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE, because it has got both sense-of-wonder and a couple of exciting suspense/action sequences. I shrunk down the sense of wonder ferociously to get it down to the right length, but the original outline had a lot more science and a lot more wonder, and so it would expand out to feature-size in a snap. So if Nolan would ever consider TREK, I have got the basis for Nolan-style Trek cookie already out of the oven and ready to plop chocolate chips into.

One other bit of irony: when I was bombing out of my pitch session at TNG, in desperation I threw out this black hole story again, which I knew nobody in the room had read. Jeri Taylor shot it down with a flat ‘we don’t do fantasy,’ which let me know the whole session was bound to be a loss for me, because that script was hard science fiction and if she couldn’t tell the difference, then I was pitching TREK to the wrong person (On one level, I knew that already, because I was supposed to be pitching to Piller, but he had to leave to deal with a personality thing going on upstairs, so I got shunted to another room.)

Pitching is incredibly difficult, especially when you know the story you’re trying to tell but the producers haven’t prepared. They uniformly hate to have their perceptions of you and your story corrected, and are most likely to take pieces of your pitch and throw elements to a writer they know and trust. To get through that process as a writer is a true miracle. To get through that process in a franchise situation is almost beyond possibility. So, you were up against a lot.

Confidence has nearly always been an issue for me regarding my creative work (not for my journalism or retail work), but going in that day, it was not a problem — maybe the only time it wasn’t a problem, because I knew I deserved to be there. I had just gotten an agent for my theatrical spec scripts, plus I had just had my first writing sales, a Cinefex article and some laserdisc reviews for Tower Video Collector, published, and I really felt I knew this show (even if I wasn’t totally enamored of it.) It was either the anniversary of TMP’s release (and Pearl Harbor day) or a couple days after, early December 1990.

But I also remember my soon-to-be-ex-girlfriend had insisted I buy and wear new shoes, and that my feet were killing me the whole time (both of my ankles were actually bleeding, so badly that I had scabs that lasted into the next year — talk about getting rubbed the wrong way!) and I have a feeling I may have been giving off a ‘going to pass a kidneystone’ vibe anytime I put weight on my feet.

I sent a rather lengthy letter to a friend detailing the day (it started with the plane I flew in on having to hit the brakes during takeoff because another plane cut it off, and then the cabin door flying open during the ascent, plus the pilot erroneously explaining how long the flight to Ontario Canada would take even though we were going to LAX), and he was convinced that it was the best piece of writing I had ever done, so I am a bit sad that neither of us kept a copy, because I would like to see how closely I remember the events, especially since I hate the kind of print-the-legend revisionism that creeps into most recollections. I also remember buying and reading a Trek novel while waiting a few hours for the pitch session, and not liking it very much (probably distracted, should figure out which one it was and give it another try, I think it had McCoy in whites and maybe Kirk in the penguins on the cover.)

I absolutely try to restructure “Trek ideas” into things I can control. It’s actually one of the things that worries me about thinking about Star Trek so much!

I kind of worked that in reverse. Even prior to TNG, was thinking going AntiTrek, a working class space show, one where you find out that the supposed non-interference aspect was actually just a way to officially turn a blind eye to exploiting underdeveloped worlds. I turned a lot of my pitches into prospective eps of my idea in the early 90s (imagined the Picard / dead kid ep as something that could be done with Robert Picardo, who I thought was marvelous on CHINA BEACH), and while FIREFLY later wound up doing a lot of this kind of material (often better), I still think my CRITICAL ORBIT stories would be a helluva series. And then

His Alien prequels are incredibly divisive. I liked Prometheus and hated Covenant.I will say i liked the sense of scale and mythology of the prequel. But its not the same without the humanity of an Ellen Ripley. Also the cgi isn’t better than the practical of the original movies.

His Alien prequels are incredibly divisive. I liked Prometheus and hated Covenant.I will say i liked the sense of scale and mythology of the prequel.

I’m glad to know I’m not the only one who sees it that way. I liked Prometheus for trying to create an own but yet connected story. They kept it mythical.I hated Covenant for its story and over the top gore.
They should have done the proposed Alien 5 sequel.
When I had the opportunity to update my Alien-Quadrilogy-Box with a Blu-Ray Box, I decided against the box with 6 movies and bought the Quadrilogy-Box again with all 4 movies in its original and extended version. I’d rather watch the Quadrilgy in both versions than Alien: Covenant.

Man, that’s really cool that you at least got into the door to make your pitch. I had respect for Taylor as a writer (her half of the Spock reunion show was much more effective than Piller’s), but her comment here seems pretty obtuse. Maybe you just caught her on a bad day.

She had only been on the show for a few months, plus she wasn’t even supposed to be in the meeting, so those are factors. But I believe she’s also the one who kept sneaking non-vegetarian stuff into the scripts, like the fish eggs, so I think she just wasn’t on the same page in some ways.

Ron Moore and one of the guys who wrote as a team were also there; Moore championed my best pitch, but (as I think I’ve mentioned in the past), Taylor was in a firm ‘Picard wouldn’t do that’ mode. I really wish I could have just read them my Picard/Guinan scene for that ‘kid dies on the ship’ pitch (I had actually written two-thirds of it as a spec when the meeting happened, I was that sure it was going to be ‘the one’), because I still thinkk it wouuld have let them know I could write these characters in a convincing yet innovative way.

“Aww sh*t, here we Go again…”

Again this movie is nothing but smoke and mirrors. Paramount put out a statement that they will continue with the project and look for a new director but this is still the same jokers who A. Hasn’t signed on the cast yet or even talked to them about signing on B. hasn’t given ANYONE an update about a script (is it finished? Are they working on the fifth draft? Did they ditch the last one and started over a week ago?) C. Has not even suggested a starting date for said movie which still has a premiere date of December 2023 as the months tick on and D. Has confirmed if pre-production has even started, ie, scouting filming locations, building sets, etc etc for a movie that is supposedly coming in less than a year and a half. It doesn’t sound like anything is being done outside of working on a script. And who even knows with that.

No wonder why Shakman bounced! He was probably getting sick of getting the run around or a complete dead end on any news for a project he’s been on for a year already.

As the director, Shakman should have been involved in working on the script. I do wonder whether Shakman, Bad Robot and Paramount ever agreed on a creative direction and the project has “only” stalled because they couldn’t get everybody’s schedules to line up or whether they never reached that creative agreement. Some of the interview snippets we’ve heard from the actors suggest that the studio may still be trying to come to that creative agreement.
Getting a new director now may return them to the drawing board. But maybe they haven’t been beyond that stage anyways.

It could’ve been creative reasons why he left but I don’t think it had anything to do with that personally. And listening to the actors like Chris Pine, the lead in your movie, he made it clear at comic con no one has even talked him about the movie. He literally said he knew nothing. It doesn’t sound like he has talked to them about signing on, working out a schedule or anything like that. He talks about it like it’s just an idea of something they want to do, but no real tangible discussions about trying to get it made.

My theory is all they done is worked on the script and it’s not gone farther than that because it’s probably trying to get a smaller budget film as you probably heard me say. Sure Shakman could be involved with the script but they were already working on one before they even hired him so I don’t think he’s as involved in writing it. He probably gave ideas and someone mentioned he did a draft but he’s not the main writer just like Abrams and Lin weren’t the main writers.

I think Paramount wants to make a movie (which I’m sure you heard me say before as well) but they probably can’t figure out how to make it cheaper and probably won’t budge until they do. It would explain why the actors haven’t been called and nothing has been greenlit because they aren’t 100% certain until they can make it for a certain price, which I DON’T blame them if that’s the case.. But maybe you should work all that out before you make another useless announcement for a movie you’re still not certain you will make?

Shakman was announced as the director more than a year ago. My guess is he hasn’t just been sitting around all that time and waiting for Paramount to send him a script. More likely, he has been trying to work out something with the writers, Bad Robot and the studio that everybody can get behind.
Since the actors keep saying they haven’t seen a script, I can only guess that this shared creative vision hasn’t been achieved.
As you say, the problem is most likely making a movie for a lower budget that still delivers on the spectacle.
Who knows? Maybe they really thought they had cracked the problem when they made that big announcement in spring (but got cold feed again since then). Allegedly, the Hawley movie was close to starting pre-production when they pulled the plug on that. Or maybe they hadn’t settled on a script but Paramount wanted to force their hand by setting a date. Sometimes a deadline can help to get a stuck project going. It doesn’t seem to have worked in favour of this movie.

Yeah, I don’t disagree with that at all. But the problem is probably mostly money. I don’t think its a creative issue alone. Let’s not kid ourselves. The last two Mission Impossible movies 5 and 6 were approved and started filming before they even finished the scripts. When a studio really wants a movie to happen, they push on through and figure it out as they go, especially when you already announced a release date, which they already postponed once. This movie was originally suppose to come out in Junes of 2023, less than a year from now.

That’s exactly what they did with Beyond. Pegg and Jung was writing the movie as the production went. They didn’t have time to sit around for 6 months to just write it because they already set a date and hired everyone to make it.

Today a very different story and just don’t have the same faith in these movies anymore. Shakman been waiting a year to get something going and it’s been dead silence on everything. He needs to work like everyone else and waiting for them to decide how and when probably got frustrating for him. I think by this point he was hoping the script would be done, budget approved and they would be in pre-production by now building sets, casting other actors, etc since they announced shooting would start by the end of the year. The movie is probably nowhere close to that, so he finally just bounced.

At this point, I wonder if they will keep getting directors to even sign up for these movies seeing how so many have come and gone and zero to show for it. Paramount just seems clueless.

Why are we assuming there was a script?

The announcements have reflected that a script from a year or more back was being rewritten by a second team — I think that dates back to when this director entered the picture. Par has usually mentioned when a script has been discarded or back-burnered, so I think the general consensus is that they were trying to make something they had done (and redone) work, rather than start over.

(And yeah, this sounds like TMP all over again. Just the names have changed.)

Having thought of TMP again, here’s a thought: for years I’ve wished devoutly that Gene Coon had lived long enough to become involved, and I’ve felt if anyone could, maybe he would have been able to lick it (or get everybody convinced to go another route.) But since he was already dead, what would have been another step to get the production in line, one that WAS acheivable?

For me, it is Justman.

Would Justman have tolerated the Abel/ASTRA situation, allowing it to go on for anything remotely approaching a year?

Would Justman have allowed the film bills to pile up without locking in a budget?

Would Justman have let the Nomad aspect of the story go unchallenged?

I think the answer to the first two of these is a solid ‘no,’ and it is at least possible he would have raised a stink over the third. And just by holding Abel in check, he’d have insured Joe Jennings continued on as PD, which would have kept us from all the goofy lighting-from-beneath that Michaelson pushed on the DP.

Except for walking away in mid-s3, Justman seemed to always honor his commitments (and in that case, he probably felt betrayed by all concerned, so it was motivated and in my book totally okay.) He even stayed with TNG until his commitment was met, despite nearly everything going sideways on that. On TMP, he could have been a bridge between Wise and Roddenberry.

Perhaps it’s time to forgive Jonthan Frakes for “Insurrection” and let him direct this movie. Wasn’t his fault he got a “tv movie of the week” script for a theatrical release.

Sure it wasn’t 2002 Clockstoppers or Thunderbirds 2004 that was the reason. His Trek work is his best. Outside of directing a movie for tv like the librarian. He didn’t translate to other films.

This is a disaster at this point.

Matt Shakman is a loss. I see people whinging and moaning about not liking Wandavision because it was lame and “bewitched meets marvel”. But he didn’t write it. He didn’t create the story, he directed it. And directed it really well IMO.
If anyone wants to call his talent into question I’d direct them to watch “The Spoils of War” from GOT. The loot train attack scene in particular – which you can catch on Youtube – is one of the most impressive, cinematic and arresting scenes in television. It must also be hard to find a director who’s equally as comfortable with a big budget production/CGI-packed blockbuster action scenes as well as experienced with the smaller, more intimate and emotional scenes as he is, just look at what happened to Chloe Zhao recently. So yeah, another talent bites the dust in this never-ending non-film.

I’d love if Paramount just went in a total new direction tbh. They have a current property under the ST umbrella that could really excel at the box office if they did it in the right way, story-wise and with promotion. I’m not talking about SNW, I’m talking about Prodigy. The more family-friendly the movie, the more money they stand to make; something I think Paramount is concerned about after Beyond’s performance, and probably why we’ve been waiting so long for anything movie-wise.

Have to agree about the loot train sequence from GoT, which I thought was jaw-dropping amazing, especially for television. The closest thing I can compare it to is the “Ride of the Valkyries” scene from APOCALYPSE NOW, which is high praise indeed.

You beat me to it, I agree completely, and had forgotten he was the director on that. The SFX guy on the series cited that as being one of the best examples of how the on-set fx set up and were tied in with the post fx, so this guy definitely had the right stuff for the job on that basis, regardless of whether you love (me) or hate (everybody else it seems) WANDA.

JJ Abrams would be their best choice. Ten years ago. Now they can’t afford him. They also can’t afford the budgets of his two movies. I honestly don’t see the 4th film getting made, like at all. Unless you see the cameras rolling and the actors on set and a script.

His directing career is on a downhill slop after the last SW movie & WB are trying to dissolve his first look deal so I think he would take if offered the movie! But Paramount know hiring him means a mega budget s he always goes way over…


October 9, 2031

Paramount Pictures proudly announces the fourth Star Trek movie finally gears up yet again! The exciting Kelvin Timeline films that fans everywhere kind of remembers is making a turn to the theaters. After eight previous delays, cancellations and/or actor arrests, the studio promises this project is boldly going. They have tapped a new director, responsible for the new Disney-HBO+ streaming hit movie “Chip ‘n’ Dale takes on Gotham City!” will be helming the project. The new head of Paramount put out a statement about the next exciting entry of the franchise.

“Like this one is really really happening this time. We’re like super super confident this one will get made. Seriously, it’s going to happen. Like really! And we couldn’t be more excited about the idea of it happening. Truly going to get made, folks! Really looking forward to the possibility of it!”

We caught up with the cast and to get their take on the exciting announcement. Zoe Saldana, who just finished filming Avatar 8: The Wind Blows stated, “I’m super excited to be coming back!”

Chris Pine, who plays Captain Kirk in the films had this to say, “No one called me about it, I haven’t seen a script, I have no idea when we’re shooting it since no one called me but I’m excited to get back to work. I know the director though and I think his work is phenomenal….wait, what’s that? It’s a ‘she’…well I think her work is phenomenal and we’re going to make a great picture together.”

We caught up to Karl Urban who is now in sixth season of his Boys spin-off, ‘Buther’ , who had this to say about the exciting new announcement: “What the bleep is wrong with these bleep people?? They keep announcing these bleep movies and the bleep never happens! Are they bleep high over there at Paramount? Do they just like to bleep troll the fans and actors? These bleep will be announcing a movies when I’m bleep dead. STFU and bleep make a god bleep movie you bleep wank…”

John Cho responded to the news with, “Wait…they are still making those? C’mon?”

Simon Pegg also learned about the next iteration. “I been telling the fans for 15 years now we’re going to make another one and today is finally the day. I told people it was all going to work out and it turns out I was right? Look at that! I can’t wait to return to Scotty and hopefully I will be healthy enough without my walker by then. But it looks all systems go. After all this time it’s definitely happening..probably.”

Zachery Quinto shared this comment: “Yeah, whatever man!”

Zoe Saldana reiterated her excitement for the news with “I’m very excited once again!”

Pine elaborated more with “I read on Reddit the others are coming back too. This is going to be a great film. Have you seen the script yet?”

Lastly, Karl Urban had this to say with his final words: “And then they told us that Clark chick was directing, then Tarantino was making one, may he RIP, then the Hawley guy and next the WandaVision bloke and now the ‘Chip N Dale takes on Gotham’ visionary is bleep leading the chorus. Bleep me, what the guy who directed Sonic 7: Sonicmeister was too busy? How about you stop bleep dicking people around Paramount? I have a better chance of my bleep being blown by the New Zealand Prime Minister than a bleep Star Trek movie will get made by you bleep hacks! Go bleep yourselves Paramount!”

Movie will be produced by JJ Abrams for a possible June 2033. October 2034 or a December 2035 opening date!

LOL, OMG!!! This is hilarious. And unfortunately probably not too far off from reality.

Agreed, most amusing, and unfortunately very familiar

Just keeping it honest. 😁

Frakes, anyone?? Why not? First Contact was excellent, and his work on Trek TV is solid.

Whatever. Sounds like they donj’T know when they’re going to film, and he took the sure thing.

Ugh, let’s just move on at this point.

I honestly would love a 4th Kelvin movie as I think the cast finally started to really gel in “Beyond,” but Beyond came out SIX years ago. Even in a best-case scenario, the next movie won’t come out until at least the end of 2023 – a good 7.5 years after Beyond. With the Prime timeline going strong on TV, and the shaky nature of the ST movies (there have been 13 movies, and I’d argue only 5 or 6 are truly good movies), I think Paramount just needs to cut their loses, focus on the plethora of TV shows, and fully move on from the Kelvin timeline.

That’s not to say the Kelvinverse was a failure or anything, as it absolutely jump started Star Trek from it’s mid-aughts malaise, but unless Paramount becomes truly serious about continuing this corner of the ST universe, letting the Kelvinverse barely limp along does a disservice to the cast, crew, writers and fans.

Been saying it for years now, fool me once shame on you. Fool me five times…

It’s no movie, it’s just Paramount up it’s own ass pretending there is one. I don’t give two shits about JJ verse so it’s just more hilarious to see Paramount troll yet again.

I do feel bad for the fans though and the hundred or so who still cares about the Kelvin universe.

I would pay for a Lower Decks movie over another brain dead JJ verse movie.

Do I really need to see another dude on a big ship take down fratboy Kirk and the the rest of his fraternity on the Enterprise because the Federation pissed him off. Been on that ride three times now. 🙄

Maybe they can make real Star Trek again some day. But the day looks like it’ll never happen. 😂

While I, along with millions of fans await another Kelvin Star Trek movie, I will not sweat and fret all these delays. There is plenty of outstanding Trek on Paramount+ to take me through this.

Point me to ANY “outstanding Trek” on Paramount+ except for the beloved TOS, TNG, DS9, the occasional VOY and a small smattering of ENT. (PLEASE don’t say “Picard”.)

I think that’s what they mean, all the classic shows are there to watch over and over again which I’m guessing what most fans watch even if they like the new shows too. Any of those are a bonus.

Yet another Paramount/Star Trek movie debacle! This is getting old.

At this point, the fresh young cast is getting long in the tooth. Hopefully, they at least consider setting up one final trilogy with this cast all released within a 5-year span, otherwise, it seems like the ROI is going to be minimal and the feature side of the franchise is going to go up in smoke. At the end of the day, Bad Robot has been a terrible steward of the brand and another extension of their rights licensing would be a real demerit against the new Paramount regime.

I actually see this film as the final one if it happens. I think it’s more of a Nemesis situation and kind of a swan song to the cast. I could be completely wrong but seeing how much of an issue it’s taking to get ONE movie made, I don’t see another trilogy unless this movie pass expectations in a major way. And if it under-performs like Beyond did, it’s definitely over.

If the movie cost anything over $100 million it will probably bomb.

Chris Pine latest movie, The Contractor, made $2 million worldwide. 😂😂😂😂

This guy isn’t a star and no one should count on him having big box office for the next Star Trek movie. Only Trekkies will see it anyway with or without him.

Hopefully JJ verse will finally die and they can move on to real Star Trek again if this movie bombs.

LOL I swear, when I read this, I thought you forgot to add a zero in the second sentence. I went to look at BOM for myself and you were right lol. $20 million is already a big bomb for a modest $50 million movie. $2 million is just astronomically awful.

And I like Pine as an actor,I just watched him in that Amazon movie ‘All the Old Knives’ last week. The movie was just OK, but he was good in it IMO. But I agree, he’s not a star. I can’t think of one movie he was the lead in that wasn’t a big IP that was a big success. Most just broke even or failed. I also don’t think the next Star Trek film will live or die by his presence, but he’s playing Kirk, so…

I don’t think they should be paying him anything over $10 million tops considering this movie should stay in a lower budget and probably a big reason they haven’t made a deal with the cast yet because they may feel they are just too costly if they can’t get the other aspects of the budget down. The last regime felt that way and why the last movie didn’t happen. The same thing could be happening here too, we just don’t know.

But I think the movie will be OK with anything under $150 million. Anything over though, they are asking for trouble.

that Contractor film was released on Amazon stream same time as cinemas but yeah even so a 2m ww gross is pretty astounding , I mean must be something else I’m missing (maybe it was only very limited cinema release)

A 150m budget Trek would surely have to be the absolute max . If that means theyd have to have them come back to present day earth again to cut costs so be it lol

Apparently, the movie only got a limited release in <500 cinemas and has been bought (by Paramount no less) to be released on Paramount+ and Showtime.

Dude, no one wants this hear this real info because it ruins the slamming of Pine here that some are celebrating, along with the JJ Abrams death wish.


Or, another way to look at it: Chris Pine movies are now “direct to TV” trash.

Yeah that’s a little better but $2 million is still really really dismal.

Funny sidestory: The last movie Bill Shatner starred in made less than 42k at the boxoffice.
And yet you can bet that he would cash a huge check if he were ever to appear on Trek again.

Wow what movie was that?

But no one is pretending Shatner is a movie star either. And the guy is 90 lol. So hey, the fact he’s still working and even getting staring roles now is pretty amazing.

People act like Pine is an A-list actor and that’s just not reality. I finally went and just looked up the guys biggest film he’s made AS a lead outside of Star Trek and Wonder Woman.

His biggest role that pulled the most money in was the movie Unstoppable (which I saw in the theater and really liked). That movie made $165 million in 2010. And that also starred Denzel Washington, so its still not a true lead in a film but it still counts. And I only saw the movie because my mother wanted to see it because she’s a big Denzel Washington fan lol. No idea who Pine was at the time, so there you go.

But his biggest film to date is that film! Pine has never stared in a film that’s made more than that 12 years later. The ONLY movie this guy has ever been in that made more than $200 million is surprise, surprise, Star Trek, Spider-Man and Wonder Woman. That’s where the bulk of his box office (and my guess salary) comes from. The overwhelming movies he’s been in has broke even or bombed, including every film he’s been the lead in minus Unstoppable. That’s just a fact.

So I’m not trying to ‘slam’ Chris Pine or make the guy look bad. I’m just looking at his BO and at it’s cluttered with more stinkers than hits. That’s just a fact. Pine has been in over 30 films and he’s had only one major hit, (over $500 million in BO): Wonder Woman! And he wasn’t playing Wonder Woman lol.

He is not an A list star as hard as they tried for the last decade. That said, he is a good actor though!

Pine is OK but the only movie I watch of his in the theater outside of the Star Trek movies was Wonder Woman and Spiderman: Into the Spider-verse. I didn’t even know he was in that one until the credits rolled. So you may have a point there. 😉

Actually we tried to see his Jack Ryan movie at the time but got to the theater late and missed it. I never saw it but I don’t think I’m alone in that. 😂😂

Oops I stand corrected.

He’s made two films NOT a big IP that made over $200 million. The movie Into the Woods which made $212 million and another movie called Rise of the Guardians which I never heard of which made $306 million. I wasn’t looking close enough.

But the Into the Woods movie had a huge ensemble cast and starred Meryl Streep and the Guardians movie is animated which he was a voice actor of and also another big ensemble film.

But I was wrong, he did indeed make two movies that made over $200 million that wasn’t part of a major franchise. Every thing else however is under that.

Oh and I also agree if the next film is around $150 million, that’s acceptable and Beyond would’ve actually made a profit if that was the budget. A very very tiny one lol, but it wouldn’t have bombed either. And we probably would’ve gotten another movie YEARS ago if that was the case.

Personally I still think they should go lower than that though (which I’m sure you heard me say many many times lol). And thats only because I want the movie to SUCCEED obviously. I want more films. I don’t care if its with the Kelvin cast or not but I want more movies. The bigger the profit, the better chance of that. If they spend all this time to make a film that will just break even then no one is going to be motivated to do another right away. And if it fails, prepare for another 7 year black hole and no one wants that…well most of us don’t want that.

Dude, shame on you for wishing that somebody involved in Star Trek would die.

Bro I’m saying his movies should stop being made, not anyone should actually die lol

Put your reading glasses on man! 😂😂😂

OK, got it!

No worries! 🖖

If the JJ Captain Kirk is only pulling $2mm box office draw now, his career is basically done in major studio movies. NO WAY will they pay him 5x what his last film pulled in total. I bet Pine and the others priced themselves out of action for any more Trek sequels.

And is it just me, or is that entire cast now feeling very “has been”?

I always try to be fair and maybe people are right and it was the Amazon streaming option that dimmed the box office somewhat. But there were many movies that were both thrown on streaming and in the theaters the same time and some still earned at least a profit. It probably cost more just to put the movie in the theaters than what it made.

Either way I stand by the idea that Pine is not a star. I think people generally like him and he doesn’t push people away like how someone like Johnny Depp or Tom Cruise used to do, but nothing proves they are drawn to his movies because he’s in them either. That’s what a star is, you want to see it just because an actor you like is in it.

Before Beyond came out, they probably thought the movie would do $5-600+ million. Or at the very least what STID did. So they were willing to pay him more to get him back for the fourth movie. But after that, they realized Pine isn’t going to get fans to jump and go just because he plays Kirk and why they had the fallout when they refused to pay what they promised him.