Jonathan Frakes On Directing ‘Strange New Worlds’/’Lower Decks’ Crossover And Star Trek’s Future

One of the most anticipated episodes in the upcoming second season of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds is the crossover with Lower Decks that will bring Tawny Newsome as Mariner and Jack Quaid as Boimler onto Pike’s USS in live-action. That episode was directed by TNG vet Jonathan Frakes, who’s been talking about that as well as the state of Star Trek movies and TV.

Full-on comedy on Strange New Worlds

Jonathan Frakes has an interview in the February issue of SFX Magazine, and in addition to talking about returning as Captain Riker in the third season of Picard, he also talks about his experience directing the Strange New Worlds/Lower Decks crossover episode:

Oh god, it’s so good. I have Jack Quaid and Tawny Newsome, who are both amazing. It was such a treat for me because it is a flat-out comedy. Full on. And they’re fearless over there, they take some really big swings on Strange New Worlds. They’re animated at the beginning and at the end. It’s a clever and simple product. It’s not really Roger Rabbit because what happens is these guys come over and they’re humans and you accept them as soon as they’re on the Enterprise. God, the two of them have got great energy, and it freed up the acting company on Strange New Worlds to play more broadly. Anson’s a wonderful comedian, very dry, but so’s Rebecca. It encouraged Ethan and everyone, there were just a lot of positives that came out of them having the guts to do a full-on comedy, let alone a crossover with an animated show.

When speaking to TrekMovie last year, Frakes said he was picked to direct the crossover because he had previously appeared as Riker in Lower Decks, noting “They’re stretching the limits of the comedy of Riker on Lower Decks and knowing me personally, this would be a good fit. And as you can imagine, it was a blast.”

Tawny Newsome and  Jack Quaid crash the Strange New Worlds panel at San Diego Comic-Con 2022 (Photo:

Trek’s future is TV

By directing for season 2 of Strange New Worlds, Frakes is now the only person who helmed episodes for all three current Paramount+ live-action Star Trek shows, which includes two episodes of the upcoming third season of Picard and at least one from season 5 of Discovery.  Combined with his directing work on TNG, DS9 and Voyager, he has directed over 30 episodes of Trek TV and two Trek feature films. When asked if he sees a future for himself directing for big screen Star Trek again, Frakes pointed to TV as where it’s at with Trek these days:

Movies are tough! Even J.J. [Abrams] can’t get this fourth movie off the ground. All those wonderful rumors? Noah Hawley was attached to a Star Trek movie, and Quentin [Tarantino] was toying with people’s emotions about doing a movie. If those two names can’t get a fucking movie made, I don’t know. TV is the future, it seems to me.

In his late 2022 TrekMovie interview, Frakes did say he reached out to Abrams after Matt Shakman dropped out as the director of the Star Trek 4 project to remind the producer “If you need an experienced guy to take over Star Trek 4, I’m available.” In that same interview, he also said he felt season 3 of Picard “could continue into the next story” and that he would love to be involved with any follow-up show both in front and behind the camera. He had the same sentiment in his SFX interview, saying “I hope the road leads to another series.”

There is much more from Jonathan Frakes as well as interviews with co-star Gates McFadden and Picard showrunner Terry Matalas in the February issue of SFX Magazine.

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I think it’s going to be an absolute blast.Or it will either be Trials and Tribble-ations or These Are The Voyagers. I don’t think there is going to be any middle ground in this scenario lol. And I read someone else where he says Spock and Boimler play off each other really well. You can’t be more opposite than those two lol. Could be comedy gold! And knowing Frakes is directing too sounds like it will be even more fun.

And I agree 100% with Frakes about the movies. The future of Star Trek will always be on TV for many reasons, but the biggest is that it can always try and be more original and ground breaking. I know he’s talking about box office which has been the main issue since STID frankly. But the movies can’t thrive like the shows can because you can’t experiment. You can’t use new characters. You can’t even do anything outside of hard action based on the last 7-8 movies. They are just too limited what you can do with them as the Kelvin movies proved which was more disappointing because they had free rein to do anything than both the TOS and TNG films and stuck to the same template.

But TV is just different. For example, it’s no way you could make a Lower Decks movie. It just wouldn’t fly. Now sure, if the show is successful enough they can make it into a film after it gained a big enough audience, but you can’t just make it into a movie cold either. That’s why the TV shows are just a bigger hit with hardcore fans IMO. You look at the landscape of the new shows today and even if you don’t like them all, I love the diversity in their formats, time periods and settings. You will probably never see the same diversity in the films. I would love to be wrong, but doubtful.

That said, I know we’ll get another movie someday, but rest assure no matter who the characters are, what universe it’s in, if it takes place in the 23rd or 25th century, it will eventually revolve around another uber-villain with a bioweapon and big ship trying to take out a planet…mark my words.

You and Frakes are definitely right about the future of TV over movies, but it goes beyond Trek, and I think he kind of alludes to that, in a subtle way. Getting a new movie greenlit is hard these days unless you’re a huge blockbuster franchise, a prestige filmmaker, or low budget horror (obviously other movies get made but those often seem like the majority of theatrical releases these days).

But just look at television and the absolute mountain of new, high quality programming being produced. Prestigious TV shows with big budgets, incredible casts, and even a wealth of direct-to-streaming movies that often are better than what’s in theaters.

I don’t work in the industry, but from what we see, it feels like the potential ROI on a streaming release must be much higher than a big budget theatrical film, if we’re getting so much of it.

So if you’re not part of a massive global franchise like Star Wars or Marvel, TV is going to be easier to get produced than a film, and Trek has never been and likely won’t ever be at that level, so TV is where it’s going to be (and like you say, that’s probably a good thing).

On a sidenote, the incredible amount of well-made television these days is why people dislike so much good TV. Are Picard or Discovery the best shows out there? Absolutely not. Are they total trash? Absolutely not. But because we live in a world now with so much choice and so much high quality content, if it’s not the best, people label it garbage. There’s no middle ground anymore, no room for something that’s just OK. Even “good” is a waste of time now to a lot of people.

*he mentions Quentin. But I guarantee you if Tarantino had said he’d direct Trek 4, it would get made. One of the big reasons it got shut down is because he was only going to be a producer.

You’re 100% right!

In fact, me and my girlfriend just cancelled our AMC A-list accounts (for people outside of America, it’s a monthly movie pass). Because we realize we just haven’t been using them enough to justify it. Maybe later but not now. These are all the movies we seen in the last 6 months:

Thor:: Love and Thunder (ugh)
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

That’s literally it in the last 6 months! Four movies. I know part of that is still due to the Covid hangover and just a lack of movies in the theater. And there were certainly other movies we could’ve seen and thought about but we knew they would just be on streaming soon and we weren’t that motivated to go and waited. In fact one of movies we were debating to see, Tar, arrived today on Peacock…a service I’m paying a $1 a month for lol. We plan to watch it when I get home.

And there is so many options at home now. I’m backed up with all the shows and films I want to watch as it is. And like you said, not only do we have quality content at home, the movies have to be big franchise tentpole movies to make any real money right now unless there is just a lot of buzz around it to really get people motivated.

As for Star Trek, it’s not 2009 anymore, it’s already harder to compete today and that’s not including the five Trek shows on now. And what makes it even harder is a lot of fans would just choose to wait and watch it on Paramount+ along with Picard, SNW and LDS. It’s not a shock why they can’t get another one off the ground. The projections probably tells them it just isn’t worth it and I don’t see a movie making anymore than $400 million tops and it could go a lot lower like Beyond did.

Total trash? No. But the middle 6 episodes of PIC S2 were trash (and, I would argue, so were large parts of S1’s story, but those were mixed in with better stuff, so it’s not really fair to label it all trash). Apart from the acting, which was pretty good throughout, PIC S2 had terrible pacing, non-existent story or character logic, didn’t know what to do with most of the characters, had storylines that went nowhere, and what stories they had undermined most of the characters. On top of that, the restrictions from production during covid meant most of the scenes were boringly constructed, with only a couple of actors in each, with boring sets (in the 21st century), where not much of any relevance happened. Only the first couple episodes and final episode of S2, which were apparently shot at the end of the shoot when the Stargazer sets were ready (and the pandemic production methods were better worked out), were exciting and good.

Sorry, but you’re clearly not acquainted with actual televisual trash of you really consider large swaths of Picard akin to it. I know it’s a matter of opinion, and even I agree large portions of S2 are heavily flawed, and I could even understand if someone felt they were just “bad”

But trash? Come on now, that’s hyperbole, and the kind of talk that is only the result of your inanity.

Sure, its story meandered a lot, some of the internal logic was flawed, make with even with those problems it still has elements that work. The cast is all good, and several give what I might even call strong performances. The action is fun, the VFX are excellent… there’s actually some interesting themes explored and some compelling story points sprinkled around. The character work is still good at times, too, when isolated from the story.

Again, if you don’t like it, fine, but calling it trash? lol. That’s EXACTLY the kind of clownish nonsense I was talking about. Nobody is willing to just say “eh” and move on, they’ve got to call everything garbage, worthless, etc.

I understand it can feel like a waste of time because there is so much GREAT content around these days, but your attitude is beyond ridiculous.

Eh, most of season two of Picard was so-so for me, to be honest. Yet, most of season one was OK for me.

Most of Picard season 2 was like watching your dog die…for 8 long hours. 🙄

Not just some of the worst Star Trek ever made but some of the worst TV ever made as well.

The problem is that streaming TV doesn’t offer nearly as much opportunity to develop as the old network/syndication model did. 10 episodes isn’t enough to try different concepts to see what works and what doesn’t like TNG did (imagine if all we ever got of TNG was its first thirty episodes. Yikes!), or to develop secondary characters as DS9 did so spectacularly well. Discovery at 15-ish episodes early on tried a little (but that first season was a revolving door of producers and writers and the opportunity was wasted) but for the most part, Secret Hideout’s live action shows don’t have the depth that the Roddenberry/Berman era Trek did.

I agree to an extent but you can also say just having multiple varied shows at least give people different options even if you can’t develop them at the level of the classic shows. And you can make that argument across the board since most streaming shows are generally 8-10 episodes long. It’s just the new normal.

I’m not very fond of DIS or PIC so far, but I do enjoy SNW right now. But yeah I don’t know if it will ever have the depth of the classic shows with such short episodes either, but as said that’s just streaming in general now.

It depends. I would argue Picard has gotten WAY more time to develop than perhaps it deserves. No, I don’t consider it trash, but the response to it has been mixed at best, and i’ve never seen it cited as one of the most-watched shows.

But because it has a high profile brand, a big name starring, and it makes for a good flagship attention-grabber, it’s gotten the three seasons they were hoping for.

I agree with you too. Most of live action NuTrek lacks depth compared to the old shows. It’s more surface-y.

That’s not a super bad thing as long as it’s good but I can’t think of one episode that has equalled stuff like Measure of a Man, Duet, Similitude or City on the Edge of Forever in any of them.

Maybe New Eden comes close?


Can you elaborate a teensy bit? ;)

i think it’s going to be something simple. like the Enterprise sees an animated Cerritos on the screen but when they beam over the two, they come in as live action. No muss, no long winded explanations. and when they send them back it’s just the reverse.

I don’t think it will mix the styles that much. I think we will see an intro and end scene that are set on the Cerritos and will be animated. Through time travel, or something similar, Boimler and Mariner end up on the Enterprise. When we see scenes in the past on Enterprise, they will be live action. That is my guess.

Though the tidbit that we will see Pike animated throws a wrench into this. Maybe Pike visits the Cerritos at the start, kicking off the adventure, or shows up at the end to drop them back at the Cerritos?

Seems like the best approach to me: just ignore it. LDW is animated, SNW is live action. That’s all.

Jesus that sounds so moronic, no offense.

Just sounds logical to me.

This is supposed to be science fiction and Star Trek is supposed to represent a possible future in space for mankind – At least that’s what it used to represent. So no way am I buying this as a representation of something you would see on a space mission in the future. IDIC though

I agree with this. I see the animation book ending the episode basically although it’s rumored Pike will be animated too at some point. So IF that’s true, then it may be a bit more complex in how it’s done.

I loathe this episode is happening, but the only way I can see it working is like in Farscape it happens due to an injury and someone is in a coma imagining it all, or perhaps it is hallucinations or mass delusion.

Yeah, like why the F do they have to this??? I guarantee you that if Gene R were still around that this would not be happening. I don’t think Rick Berman would go for this dumbass idea either. Same goes for Harve Bennett.

I generally like Kurtzman’s decisions, but the dude does have a less serious and less respectable idea of what Trek can and should be than I do.

Come on Alex, Star Trek is better than this!

If Gene Roddenberry were still around, we wouldn’t have gotten DS9, or most of the best parts of Star Trek. Lower Decks and SNW are both canon, so it makes perfect sense for them to cross over. Scenes on the Cerritos will be animated and scenes on the Enterprise will be live action. Its not a big deal.

Well it’s rather convenient that you left Rick Berman and Harve Bennett out of your response.

I don’t think ANY of these three great Trek franchise leads would have done this, nor do I believe for a New York minute that ANY of these three would have called this silly crap canon.

You had to cherry pick just ONE of my mentions and then twist the point around to gain some minor traction on this…lol, that’s rather weak. :-)

Okay, let’s see.
Gene Roddenberry: Given how badly early TNG was received- when Roddenberry was still heavily involved – I’m not sure we would still be having any new Trek now if he had stayed on. It may be hard but it seems to me that he struck lightning once with TOS, and that was it. So he may not be the best judge of what makes a good Trek show.

Rick Berman: Berman seemed to have a pretty narrow view of Trek. Many think that his narrow view of Trek was what got both the movie side and the TV side cancelled about 20 years ago. Also, given how much you constantly rail against two of the Trek shows Berman did make (VOY and ENT) it is highly hypocritical of you to suggest that something shouldn’t happen in current Trek because Berman wouldn’t have done it.

Harve Bennett: I have no idea what kind of “experiments” Bennett would or wouldn’t have done with Trek. But he did push for Starfleet Academy YA Trek more than 30 years ago which doesn’t seem to be a popular idea with Trek fans to this day.

So you basically agree with me then, my admitted hypocrisy on using Berman to support my position notwithstanding. ;-)

I don’t know if Berman has ever said anything about the current Trek shows but I can believe that he may not have done something like Lower Decks.

The irony here is: It’s also a pretty safe bet that Discovery would never have been made under Berman. That would make some people here very happy but last time I checked you were a fan of Discovery.
So hey, lets put Berman back in charge. Let’s get more like VOY and ENT and none like Discovery. But if you’re lucky that evil animated show would be gone too ;-)

LOL, good post, even if I am only buying parts of it.

I feel compelled to iterate again how grateful I am that Frakes really does seem to be “one of us”. I love how he’s embraced his Trek legacy to such a degree that all these years later, he’s still a force to be reckoned with behind the scenes. It’s just really really really neat and affirming as a fan.

Yeah LOVE Frakes! This guy is the pulse of the franchise IMO. He’s so passionate about being in Star Trek. Sure, the fame and money probably helps lol but he truly loves everything about it and will probably be part of the franchise in some regard until he retires both in front of and behind the camera.

Well, he mentions Rebecca so I guess Number One is out of jail and back with the crew…

I think a good piece of advice if you’re a spoilerphobe (and I’m not saying you are) is to avoid any interview with Frakes about upcoming Trek stuff, because he will inevitably spill a couple of beans.

LOL so true, but I suspect they will wrap up Number One’s ordeal in the first episode like they wrapped up Captain Freeman’s in the first episode last season. I don’t think it’s going to be some big arc or anything.

That’s what I thought, too, when I read that – although it’s also possible the story-line written for this crossover could have Una as the focal point of the whole plot, so she’d be in it even if she weren’t on the Big E at the time. This one’s a REALLY interesting one to look forward to, and I certainly am!

Good to see I’m not the only one who picked up on that.

I suspect that this crossover episode is not intended to be taken or accepted as “canon,” i.e. part of the history within the Star Trek universe and timeline but will be more like a stand alone hypothetical for just pure fun, almost like the Marvel “What If” comics back in the 80s and 90s. And honestly, I would love to see some more “What If” scenarios in Star Trek, they can be funny like those one will be or even serious like What If Voyager was never stranded in the Delta Quadrant and fought during the Dominion War, or What If Pike’s Enterprise from Strange New Worlds crossed over into the Kelvin Timeline. One could think of many possibilities for great stories outside of cannon and I’m all for it. And I still love cannon. Make it so!

I don’t see any indication that this isn’t being considered canon. I think the fact that they are mixing the styles indicates that it is canon. If they wanted to do a non-canonical SNW episode for fun, I think they would do it all animated (like “Ephraim and Dot” from Short Treks).

A “What if…” style show would be interesting to me too. It could be a like “Parallels, part 2” or something like a Trek version of Quantum Leap or Sliders where our hero(es) jump from reality to reality trying to get home or fix some multiversal problem. Multiverses are in right now, I hear. ;)

That would be so awesome if CBS told us that this crossover ep was not canon and that lower decks also was not canon. Heck, if they did that I throw a convention party in my room in Vegas this year with free booze for all fans who stopped in — that’s how happy and joyful that decision would be for me

I just don’t see the point of that. I’m pretty sure it will be canon like everything else.

I do like the ‘what if’ story idea although Marvel has kind of beat them to it.

I believe movies could still be successful. They need to get a story that is special. Something about the movie that would draw attention. Could be a star or director or the story itself. Market it well. Of course also make a good movie. They certainly have a successful formula for TV/streaming. Time to get it back and make the movie going experience special again. I’m sure if you give Jonathan the directors chair he would see a future in movies.

This movie versus TV thing is a bunch of BS that’s kind of a hangover from Covid. Make a great Star Trek movie like the original Kelvin Star 2009, and it will make money… Not Marvel or DC money but it will make money

Totally agree. The fanboy in me wants a multiverse movie with characters from the different series. I guess the powers that be don’t think that would appeal to anyone outside Trek fandom. Good movie plus good buzz and they will have a hit. They want Marvel money. That could be the problem.

Well said!

Poorly articulated, but ultimately the right point. Studios don’t want a modest hit. They want blockbuster potential if they’re going to consider green lighting a new film.

That’s why the future of Trek is likely on TV. Because until they can crack the problem of how to turn Trek into a blockbuster, it has more VALUE on TV.

Exactly. That’s the problem. Star Trek is just a middle tier franchise. Always has been and probably always will be. Les Moonves didn’t even want to put a Star Trek show on CBS; but he’ll happily stuff 8 NCIS shows on it, but this is the reality. And there is nothing wrong with that, it still makes money, has a very loyal fanbase, currently making the most content it has in over 20 years and generally looked at as a quality brand by even people who don’t like or care about it.

But Paramount don’t seem to want to accept that reality anymore and hence why there is no movie nearly 7 years on now. Once they accept it’s a middle tier franchise with middle tier profits and plan accordingly, then there will be eventually another movie. But until then, there won’t be. It’s really that simple.

They tried to make the Kelvin movies blockbuster films and they failed on that front. Either it’s time to accept reality or we just have more TV shows as we do now until they do. And frankly most of us prefer the shows more anyway which is the other problem lol.

ST has never done well on network TV.
Syndication helped TNG to record ratings for the franchise

I’m not from the US so I guess I just don’t understand this system of network TV vs. syndication.
It does seem strange that more people would watch a show just because it’s in syndication than would watch it on network TV, unless network TV has really bad coverage. Now I’ve heard that UPN did indeed have quite bad coverage but is that true for networks in general?
Or is it easier for a show to get a good timeslot in syndication than it is on network TV?

It’s not that less people would watch a syndicated show, it’s that syndication just had less competition and you don’t have to air a show at a certain time like a network show; which meant you didn’t have to compete with other shows directly in whenever time slot it was in.

That’s always been the issue with network shows, they are only shown basically from 8-10 p.m. and although technically it’s 7 days a week, Friday and Saturday have become practically dead time zones for big shows, which ironically when TOS and ENT got moved to Fridays in their final seasons before they were cancelled.

But syndication it was up to whatever market a show was in to run it. It could be 8:00 on Monday or on a midnight on Saturday; whatever time they think could get them more viewers. But when when TNG and DS9 was being syndicated in L.A. where I’m from both shows aired around 8 or 9 on the week days like network shows.

UPN was the first network in my lifetime anyway that didn’t cover all of America, but it was a small upstart network. There was another new one at the time too that became the CW with UPN but I can’t remember if that one didn’t have full coverage either. The others had no issues.

Make a great movie, people will see it, I agree with that. Whether it makes a profit is another story. For example, Beyond earned $345 million at the box office, a pretty nice sum, and a lot of tickets sold.

But because it cost $185m to make, it wasn’t deemed a success (movies typically have to double their budget to be profitable).

So, making a movie that will double its budget is where the problem starts. If you cut the budget that will mean a lesser-known cast and likely a less special FX-driven movie. Can that kind of movie attract the same $340m box office?

Now, a $70m Trek movie can earn $140, but would the studio even greenlight a Trek movie if they’re only looking at a $150-250m take?

It’s not as easy or simple as you want it to be.

Before STID came out, about 3 months before, I predicted the movie would make between $450-500 million. And I turned out to be right, it did $470 million. But that was already a big warning sign to me. That prediction was on the low end of a movie like that should make…very very low end.

And then six months before Beyond came out, I predicted it would make $400 million. And man I could not tell you how many feathers I ruffled with this figure lol. This was back on the IMDB days and people were literally calling me a troll over it. It ended up making $60 million less than that.

That’s when I knew these movies were in trouble. The trouble signs were already with STID. But this is the irony, many of us back then said it’s obvious they have to lower the budget on the next one or they are probably going to be in trouble, me especially. And the funny thing is there were reports even on this site they did plan to lower the budget in the next movie by $140 million. That was a more realistic figure considering what the first two did.

But then I guess after the whole Orci blow up, upping cast salaries across on board, coming up with a new script, delays, etc, it basically shot up to what STID cost….and proceeded to make a $120 million less than that movie. STID was considered a disappointment at the time. Beyond was probably seen as nothing less than a disaster considering all the time, money and the mini-crisis they had to deal with it to get it made.

But if it did cost $140 million as reported, Beyond would’ve made just enough to be considered successful and we would’ve had another one years ago by now.

I’m predicting the next film will probably do between $350-400 million tops. Now this is just wild speculation since there is no movie yet to judge, but the reality this is where these movies sit and just BUDGET accordingly. But they either can’t or don’t want to do that. Or maybe they do but just can’t come up with a movie that will fit that budget.

Either way, if Paramount was confident in making a movie and it would make a decent profit, we wouldn’t still be talking about it 6+ years on. So…

I’m curious but what did you think the first movie was going to make?

I won’t kid you but I thought the first was going to make a billion dollars! 🤣🤣

There was so much hype around at the time and Trekkies were losing their minds. Even people I knew who has probably never uttered the words Star Trek in their life wanted to see it. People acted like it was going to be the biggest movie of the year.

And then it doesn’t even make $400 million. 😆 But Trekkies were still acting like it was the biggest film of the summer or something. It was bizarre. Transformers 2 showed up a month later and slaughtered it at the BO by over twice the amount.

I never understood it? Abrams last movie before that one was MI 3 which cost the same and made more money, just a little more though but people kept saying it bombed. They tried to fire Tom Cruise over it. But Star Trek, cost the same, made less money but was a ‘huge’ hit.

Sooooo bizarre.

Cut to today though the MI movies now makes MCU money and every JJ verse movie has made less money than the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movie! 🤣🤣🤣

Seriously look it up! People are seriously deluded if they think these movies are big hits that Paramount are desperate to keep making. Paramount probably makes more money with the Sonic Hedgehog franchise than they ever did with Star Trek. You don’t see Sonic the Hedgehog 3 being delayed for 6 embarrassing years!

Tarantino can probably do wonders with that little guy if he got complete creative control to see his vision through… and make more money with it lol.

JJ verse is dead. These movies are a box office joke when it’s competing with Sonic the Hedgehog and Mutant Turtles for box office dominance. 🤣

Actually when the first movie came out, I never even thought about it. I assumed it would at least break even (around $300 million) but I honestly didn’t have a clue where it would go. It literally could’ve been a billion…or $100 million lol. But yeah based on the hype at the time, I couldn’t see it doing less than $300 million I guess. But it did much better domestically than I ever imagined though.

But once the first movie made what it made, it was easier to see where the sequels were trending and just the amount of hype around them. I’m a numbers guy in the real world.

And that’s really the other point, it comes down to expectations. That’s just as important because people seem to forget, you’re telling stakeholders like shareholders, investors, theater owners and on and on that you expect a movie to make at least X amount of money when it gets to a certain level of brand recognition. That’s how you get the money to make the movie. That’s how you get the extra screens in the theaters an so on and exactly what happened with MI 3.

When MI 3 came out, it didn’t ‘bomb’, but Paramount expected it make around $600 million because MI 2 was HUGE for Paramount. It was the biggest movie of that year and made over $500 million. And not only that, it was the movie after War of the Worlds came out a year before which also starred Cruise and ALSO made over $500 million. So it wasn’t just one factor alone, Paramount expected that streak to continue and it didn’t. And I don’t think making less money was the real issue it was WHY it did that really made it worse because now the thinking was Cruise was just PR poison from that point on and if you can’t make a sequel to his biggest movie a hit then long term they thought the gravy train was over.

Star Trek was ‘new’. Yeah there were 10 movies prior, but this was ‘different’. A total reboot and I think expectations were in check because they were introducing Star Trek to a global audience they never really tried before. And the movie didn’t have Tom Cruise in it, so they had to keep it check. And while the movie did make less than MI 3 overall, it did MUCH better domestically and made more than $100 million than MI did which was amazing at the time. $250 million for a Star Trek movie seemed insane even to me.

So I think while the hype was definitely overplayed (it still bombed internationally no matter ow much people tried to spin it) it did well enough to show it had great potential in the future.

Unfortunately, we come back to that word expectation again and I don’t think STID and definitely Beyond ever reached it. They didn’t strike while the iron was hot waiting four years on a sequel and by the time Beyond came around, they lost a lot of their newer fans. I think STID was probably expected to do $600 million. At least $500 million minimum. So even if it made money, they didn’t get a nearly $200 million budget just to basically make what they made on the first one. They naturally sold it to investors it would do more or why are you giving someone so much money to make a movie that one at a lower cost could’ve made? Capitalism is a bitch.

And then it didn’t make it easier when Simon Pegg said the quiet part out loud when Beyond was opening and said that executives wanted the movies to perform like the Marvel movies. I mean they are literally putting in the same amount of money, distribution and marketing so I can’t blame them. But that’s when it was made clear these movies weren’t doing anywhere close to what Paramount was hoping to see. And then Beyond bombed….and now here we are nearly 7 years later lol.

Not rocket science. And man I had no idea Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles did that well lol. I looked it up, it made nearly $500 million on a $125 million budget! What???? I barely remember that movie coming out lol. The sequel bombed though.

But this is the problem with the Trek movies and why they have become stagnant.

And Paramount does make more money on the Sonic the Hedgehog movies. Why, because unlike the brain trust making the Kelvin movies, the Sonic movies are properly budgeted for the revenue they are bringing in…and making a killing.

The next Trek movie shouldn’t be more than $100-120 million tops and even I think that might be too much.

Here’s the deal though. With inflation if you can actually make a Trekmovie for $190 million today, that’s actually a budget cut of 25% versus making the movie seven years ago. And I remember a well meaning, but not mathematically inclined fan over on Trekcore suggested to make one for 110 million, well that would be like if they tried to make the movie seven years ago for about 80 million, which is laughable today for this type of movie.

So I think we’re perfectly fine if they can keep the new movie’s budget at 190 million — that’s forcing them to tighten their belts and cut a Kelvin film budget by 25% — and then target 500 million international box office — because that figure also gets inflated and $500 million in the box office today is equivalent to making $375 million in the box office seven years ago.

it’s nonsensical using movie production costs from movies years ago when everything costs at least 25% more, if not 30 to 35% given this hyper inflation over the last year. You can’t just throw out those invalid old numbers, and then suggest cutting those down — when actually if you kept that budget you’d be reducing the cost by 25% already.

Econ 101

No I don’t think anyone is suggesting a Trek movie can’t make money, only 2 out of the 13 movies bombed. That’s a great track record. The issue is can it make the money that Paramount expects it to make? Many of us said it a thousand times, just make lower budget movies and you’ll probably be fine. But it seems to be either Paramount wants these movies to be huge BO hitters and don’t want to lower the budget too much OR they can’t make the Kelvin movies cheaper to justify making a movie which maybe COULD lose money since the last one literally did.

Paramount seems to be in a tough spot with the movies. They were hoping the Kelvin movies catch fire and make real BO and it never happened. The first two movies basically broke even and Beyond failed altogether. And the days of making mid-budget films like TOS and TNG did seem to be over although those had a lot less risk.

And after 5 failed movie projects, that kind of says it all. Trust me, the Mission Impossible movies don’t have trouble getting a movie green lit lol. And certainly not have multiple tries doing it.

M:I thrives because of Tom cruise and now his film partner Mr McQuarrie.

ST movies need a harve Bennett type again

Sure definitely needs someone who can steer it in a more creative direction. But that’s not the reason why the movies have become stagnant either; at least in terms of getting made. It’s clearly just about $$$.

And I said this before if you could get someone like Cruise and McQuarrie involved in a Trek film, they would probably roll the dice and green light a $200 million Trek movie tomorrow considering these guys last three films has brought in nearly $3 billion.

That’s a great point. You know, I think Frakes could play that Bennett-like role if the studio were to give it to him. Let him be the sort of Kevin Feige of Star Trek and cut ties with Bad Robot. I think he would also know how to cooperate with Kurtzman so the movies better tied in the the series’.

And make no mistake about it, the Kelvin movies have been profitable, just not Marvel/DC profitable. Sure, if you or I took a simplistic view and looked at the theater box office only, we would conclude that the movies have approximately broken even. But what that simplistic view doesn’t tell you or I is that everything after that is gravy revenue/profits — worldwide streaming deals, cab/sat, international TV rights, DVD/BR/4K, books, and other venues — there’s at least another $100 mil there in revenue that is probably 80% profit for each movie in just the first 3-4 years after release…and then you’re probably getting $10 mil per year for years after for each movie. It’s a long-term profit stream.

But again, Paramount wants bigger profits in the theatrical release period — I get that. I think you can get that by tying in future movies with some of the P+ series’. Someone mentioned a multiverse Trek movie — I think a cross universe movie with the existing Kelvin Staff, plus the DSC staff+ Michell Yeoh, would be a big domestic and international box office hit if they could come up with a great story.

Movie industry today is not the movie industry of the ’80s. Modest hits with modest budgets were made all the time. Not anymore. Getting a “Chris McQuarrie” type, not sure what that will do. That alone won’t make Trek a $600-700m blockbuster franchise the way MI is.

Now, if it’s an action series with McQuarrie and Cruise, maybe.

But there were over 200 movies released worldwide to theaters last year?

I think you just parroting a internet fanboy narrative that is a popular belief today, but that is simple not true.

Also 2023 will really test this case. Much of 2022 was theater recovery time from COVID still, so I would trust any conclusions like the one you are making here until I see this years numbers. No doubt movie theater chains are downsizing some, but they were bloated before COVID and this was going to happen away at some point.

I’m guessing that people will either love or hate the crossover episode, with very little in between. In other words, it’ll be polarizing, like pretty much everything these days.

I would like to hope I will have the guts to skip the crossover episode all together — it will be too disappointing and stressful to watch Star Trek crash the fourth wall. That being said I’ve never missed an ep of any Star Trek series, ever, so I’ll probably end up watching that hour long, brain-dead, cluster-F ep,

Come on…live a little. Haven’t you ever been pleasantly surprised about anything in life?

I hear you. Avatar 2 and Top Gun 2 we’re way better than I anticipated. And my Padres taking out the Dodgers in the playoffs last fall, ending years of frustration.

Please don’t feel obligated to keep us updated on that.


I’m pretty glad from the sounds of this so far: my one concern was that it sounded like animation and live action would be mixed ala Roger Rabbit, but that sounds like it’s not the case, with the LDS characters transitioning to entirely to live action once they hit the Enterprise (and perhaps vice versa)

Because while i’m fine with broad comedy on SNW, i’m not sure the metal LDS humor will work as well on the series. Taking a cautiously optimistic approach to this, but SNW was so good, i really hope it works!

That said, even if it doesn’t, it’s nice to see them taking some chances, not to mention crossovers. One of the biggest missed opportunities during DS9’s first two seasons was not doing a true crossover where the Enterprise and DS9 crews met and worked together in a big story.

I think the ep will probably be less frenetic than typical LDS. LDS has to pack a whole episode into 25 minutes, which I think contributes a lot toward the rapid-fire pace. With twice the episode space (and the constraints of actual human movement), it might slow down a bit.

If you’re right, maybe there’s hope then… That approach could take this from the dumpster fire that I am expecting to just mediocre Star Trek. That would be the best case scenario for this dumbass idea in my book

That was debunked early on. I never saw that happening because the point was to make the LD characters live action just like the Star Wars animated characters has done. I suspect we will see it happen with the Prodigy characters in time as well.

And SNW has already proven it could be very silly and comedic. It just may not be as broad as LDS can get but once you do an episode where characters swap bodies, you’re already in that realm lol. And that’s still my favorite episode in season one btw!

And yeah I’m always happy to see Star Trek experiment. Take chances! If it doesn’t work, you move on to next weeks episode and say you tried. That’s what I was saying in my OP, you can just really be creative with the shows and not so much with the movies that’s obviously sticks close to a formula in order to appeal to the widest audience out there.

If a movie does happen, I would want it to be Frakes as director. First Contact and Insurrection are terrific Star Trek movies. He understands characters, actors, and knows what the audience is looking for in a trek film. He’s amazing. I’m so happy he is directing new trek.

Yeah I would love for Frakes to direct another Trek film. Someone, unlike Abrams, who actually cares about and understand the franchise. Unfortunately I think Paramount still wants another big budget action packed popcorn movie and they wouldn’t give something like that to Frakes. But then again they did hire that woman director (her name slips my mind) for the Hemsworth movie and I don’t think she had any big action stuff on her resume, so it’s possible.

Agreed. Frakes isn’t a flashy director but he makes satisfying films/episodes. I think the moment for Trek 4 with the Kelvin cast has passed. It’s been too long of a wait, the pandemic has changed people’s movie habits and Trek has returned to TV with a new Spock, Uhura & Kirk.

Of course, there’s no reason Paramount + couldn’t greenlight and finance a Trek film exclusive to the streaming service.

I think Frakes should be brought in to guide a revitalized movie franchise, like a Kevin Feige, and coordinate with Kurtzman so we get continuity between movie Trek and P+ Trek. Frakes would be in charge, and would bring in directors and guide the movies over the next decade.

$100m Paramount+ movie (initial 10 day cinema release window). Kelvin (JJ cast) meets Prime (TNG cast). Director Frakes.

Go easy on me gentlemen..

Substitute the DSC cast+Michelle Yeoh, give it a proper budget of $200 mil (which is actually equivalent to if they had cut a past Kelvin movie budget by 25%, given inflation) and I think (assuming the story is good) you have a worldwide, marketable hit.

Pine, Zaldana, Quinto, Urban, Martin-Green, Rapp, Yeoh — WOW !!!!!

I know you love the multiverse idea, and for the record I think it would be a great and fun idea too. But I just don’t see it happening. If they can’t even feel confidant enough to pay the Kelvin actors money (remember these guys were NEVER called in to negotiate even after they said a movie was ‘happening’, that tells you everything), its only going to get more expensive when you add on the TNG cast as well.

To me the reality is the Kelvin movies are done. I just don’t see them making any real money anymore, at least Paramount probably wants. I know I been saying this since 2020…but the fact there is still no movie after five tries (although two of them were non-Kelvin movies) tells you either they don’t have the money for another movie or they don’t have faith it will make enough money. Take your pick, neither is good.

I just really really want them to move on because clearly it’s not working out…at all . The hype died for these things years ago and obviously Paramount knows that or we would have a damn movie by now!

That’s literally Frake’s point. It’s not a lack of ideas or even interest, it’s a lack of faith.

JJ verse is dead! That’s why there is no movie because they know only Trek nerds care ..and even most of us don’t even care anymore lol.

They killed these empty shallow popcorn movies with lane plots, bad stories and silly supervillains. They turned them into Marvel movies but never got the Marvel money and now the fans moved on. But Paramount has no ideas what to do next.

If the next movie makes more than $300 million I would be floored. Sure if Picard or Worf were in more fans might go but if it’s just more pew pew, a lot will just wait to catch it on Paramount+. That’s where all the good Star Trek is…and Discovery.

The irony is your prediction may not actually be that wrong and that’s scary lol.

Look at Beyond, it made $343 million and $65 million of that came from China. Now take away China and what do you have? Beyond would’ve made $280 million. That would’ve been (sorry) beyond a disaster. And it only made that because a Chinese conglomerate partnered with Paramount at the time to increase their movies distribution in China with more screens and marketing. Today China is even more fickle with Hollywood movies and if they do make another movie before 2032, it’s no guarantee it will even be screened there. And I highly doubt it will make anywhere close to what Beyond did there anyway without that push they had prior and Star Trek still having practically no traction there years later.

Movies like Avatar, Marvel or Star Wars doesn’t need China to be successful, but Star Trek clearly does.

It’s probably another reason why no one is in a rush to make another one. China was a big strategic factor for STID and STB. STID was literally made in 3D at the time so it could get a screened when 3D was the rage there.

But now it’s been so long and with so many changes in the market, the next movie very well can make under $300 million. I’m not saying it would, I do believe it can do much better, but the reality is it could and probably why they seem so afraid to pull the trigger.

Bro that is scary! 😥🤣

Maybe I should email this to Paramount just to remind them there could be an even bigger disaster than turning Khan white in JJ verse!

I’m not trying to troll I do think the next movie can make more than $300 million. If they bring in Worf then maybe it will do $320 million?

This is me being positive! 👍

No seriously let JJ verse die with some dignity already. They tried to take it off life support 5 times already after it went into a coma with Beyond six years ago…time to turn off respirator boys! It’s over. 😴

I’m just curious now, but do you want another movie at all or just not want anymore Kelvin movies?

I want to make this clear, if they make another Kelvin movie, I will be there opening weekend. But if you don’t have faith in them anymore, which they obviously don’t, then more the #@$% on already. But to be honest, I think they just don’t have faith for any movies or we would’ve had the Noah Hawley movie. Even the movie that was being written by that Star Trek Discovery writer (can’t remember her name) got literally one headline and we never heard anything else again lol. I wonder did it even get written or did they just torpedo it once she sent in a treatment if it even got that far?

I actually like the idea of a Prodigy movie happening. That probably has a better chance at this point. And maybe no uber-villain trying to destroy the multiverse or something.

Yeah I don’t really care about any of the movies not just JJ verse. Half the TNG and TOS movies are lame too. But those at least still feel like actual Star Trek. The TOS movies are still the best easily though.

Frakes is right, Trek belongs on TV. Most of the movies are a joke and just there to make Star Trek something else for ‘new’ fans who will stop caring about them a week later. Why bother?

But as bad as I think the JJ verse movies are I still went to see them in the theater (but got to see Beyond for free and why I went lol).

I didn’t even bother seeing Insurrection and Nemesis in the theater. They both looked and sounded so bad. Nemesis is still my worst movie. Star Trek Into Dumbness is my second worst.

So I’m not saying JJ verse are the only bad movies or even the worst… but just don’t feel like real Star Trek to me at all. And really really bad stories on top of it. But they are all better than Threshold and TATV so they are still much worse things in Star Trek… much worse things.

I remember when it was announced they hired that writer to write the next ‘movie’ and so many gullible people thought it was a real thing! 🤣 Just sad.

I haven’t believed a single movie “announcement” seriously in years. The last one I thought could happen was the Tarantino one. Since then it’s been nothing but a shrug. The Hawley one sounded different and no JJ verse but didn’t take it that seriously either. But that’s probably the only one I even cared about because it sounded different.

But Paramount knows these movies will probably bomb and just making announcements to see if any investors will bite. They never do, movie dies and then they try again later. Rinse and repeat. Nothing but trolling.

And I shake my head laughing seeing deluded fans online take the bait over and over again. “Naw man it’s really really really going to happen this time. They even put out a press release one is coming by the next leap year and Chris Pine commented he saw a YouTube video that said a script was being written so it’s definitely happening this time, you’ll see doubter… you’ll see.”

It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad. 🤣😥

I don’t care about the movies and neither does Paramount. They are just desperate for more IPs, so they keep trouting Trek out until someone reminds them again the movies don’t make any real money and put it away until they are desperate to try again. But if they make one someday sure I’ll go. And if I like it I’ll watch it again when it hits Paramount+ 9 days later! 😁

Be super down for a Prodigy movie though! Animated Janeway on the big screen, it already has my money! 👍

I guess hope springs eternal lol. And I was more positive about another one happening for awhile. But once Chris Pine and Hemsworth walked away from negotiations, it was clear Paramount just didn’t have the motivation like the previous three movies…and haven’t had it since.

I do think they were serious about Hawley and Tarantino movies, but the scripts themselves didn’t sound like it moved them enough so that was that.

And every time they make these announcements I do take it seriously, but after the last farce I think most people just stopped caring. It’s gotten so ridiculous even Frakes is shaking his head over it.

According to Box Office Mojo, it also made about 6.5 million in “Russia/CIS,” most of which is presumably off the table for the next movie.

Yeah probably not a lot of Hollywood films and shows making it to Russia these days. ;)

I’m a bit surprised a Trek movie did even that well in Russia.

problem is the movies have never been international hits and have done little to increase that box office if they don’t do well domestic

Fully agree. Add to the fact the domestic box office literally fell by $100 million between the first and third film then it just looks more problematic long term. It would be a little different if the box office in America got higher with every film to justify it a little; but that was already another huge warning sign.

Add that to low international box office, it’s even a bigger chance the next movie could fail worse than Beyond did with no hype for these movies today and so much time passed. It doesn’t mean it will, but there is zero guarantee it won’t either.

But the main issue is that the international box office just never been that viable and that was the reason they cost so much in the first place.

10 day? The consensus currently seems to be that windows that short have been an unmitigated disaster the farther we’ve gotten away from the lockdown.

I went with 10 bc that would be all the trekkies going to see it first , but thinking about it the likes if Tiger2,TG1701 and others would probably just wait for it to hit P+ .. but if it was purely a P+ film (no cinema) it wouldn’t really bring in many extra subscribers as it’d be just more star trek to go with all the rest SNW, Picard etc , therefore have to be a cinema only release but HAVE to cut that budget down to like 100m max somehow (despite the standard big tentpole sci fi film costs at least 150m these days) as we KNOW a Trek movie isn’t going to get ‘beyond’ 350m esp now when Marvel and now Avatar again rule EVERYTHING EVERWHERE which means the cast going have be OK not getting like 15m each. so Pine 10m, Quinto 5?, Saldana 5?, Pegg 4? Urban 3? Cho 2? a respected B list name villain (who’s willing to do Trek) like Bryan Cranston probably about 3-5m. Thats like 30m on main cast alone. then if its multiverse film and they wanted some ‘legacy’ actors like TNG for supporting roles (Stewart Frakes Spiner Dorn) there goes another 20m at least, thats 50m on the cast! (paramount exec has heart attack) then the director Frakes JJ whoever, and ILM, etc etc. But if they redress current Trek sets (Trek VI style) and no have overblown needless huge FX heavy action scenes throughout (like Beyond) instead limit it to like couple of big battles (like Trek II, III, VI, Gen, FC, Nem) I guess its possible to bring it in for 100m??

“I went with 10 bc that would be all the trekkies going to see it first , but thinking about it the likes if Tiger2,TG1701 and others would probably just wait for it to hit P+ .”

Dude, I literally said in this thread you created that I would see the movie opening weekend. It doesn’t even matter what it is lol, I would be there. Starting with TUC through Beyond, I’ve seen every movie opening weekend. As for the Kelvin movies I have not just seen every one of them opening weekend, I’ve seen all three twice in the theater, something I never did for the other movies. To go one farther, Beyond is the only movie, ever, I watched twice on IMAX. I even watched Avatar only once on IMAX lol. And the irony about Beyond is my excitement for the movie was practically ho-hum, but I still saw the first showing at the Chinese theater opening day.

In fact reading TG1701 post, he also said he would see the movie in a theater. Maybe not right away I guess but I don’t want to put words in his mouth.

But please don’t mistake my thoughts on my state of affairs of the movie franchise (which I think is clearly bad lol) to my enthusiasm once they get their $%@& together and just make one. I would be one of its biggest supporters. You’re talking to a guy who waited up until 1 a.m. to see an episode of Prodigy, a kid’s show, because for some reason it wasn’t up on P+ when it was suppose to be. Do you honestly think I can wait to watch a movie a month or whenever it arrived on P+. That would be insane lol.

I’m just reading the tea leaves as to how I see the overall perception of another Trek movie and yeah not good overall. I don’t think the excitement is there for another movie at all, Kelvin or not. Apparently Paramount agrees but ironically it’s Paramount who has created that apathy by all the ridiculous stalling and non-starters. And now Trek is back on TV. You go to Reddit and it’s way more people discussing what the Picard spin off show could be instead of another movie for multiple reasons; the biggest being they know that’s actually happening.

Now all that said, if Paramount makes another movie by the year 2036 and it by some miracle makes $1.5 billion dollars, then everything changes lol. And yes I will still see it in the theater opening weekend. So fingers crossed we’ll get a movie by then. ;)

Yeah that was abit presumptuous on my part saying youd wait for a new film to drop on P+ esp when youd already said youd be there opening wkend whatever happens lol. anyway my mind is kind of all over the place over trying to figure out this damned movie! One minute im thinking it’ll be an Avengers like multiverse epic in cinemas for 60th then no what if its a P+ movie with Frakes directing?! there there’s the ViewerAnon / RMB rumours that JJ is coming back to direct?! its like just announce the movie already (for real) and then actually make this damn thing!! I mean ever since 79 there’s ALWAYS been a Trek movie in cinemas every few years, even when Trek was DEAD after Nemesis/Enterprise they still were coming up with stuff for a few years before deciding to do the biggest Trek movie since the first one. now we’ve been teased with literally about 5 or 6 different versions of a ST4 only for it just to come to nothing?? it doesn’t seem possible

No it’s fine of course, it was just weird since I posted directly I would definitely see it if a movie ever opens. But then later it occurred to me maybe you just didn’t read it lol. Not everyone reads every post when they show up. A lot of times I might come to respond to someone who wrote something to me and don’t have time at that moment to read other new responses. But either way it’s cleared up now!

Now ALL that said, I don’t really care anymore if we get one or not. Sure if they make it, then I will care again. Until then I won’t lol. There is tons of content now and another reason why it’s probably even harder because fans really aren’t even begging for another movie; especially if they aren’t fans of the Kelvin movies.

And you mention the long wait between movies now and the irony is in a few days, it will officially be the longest time we’ve gone without a movie ever since TMP! The longest time we had prior was between Nemesis and Star Trek 09 which was 6 and a half years. Well at this very moment it’s been six and a half years since Beyond was released. Come February, that record will be broken lol. And yeah at least when the wait was so long after Nemesis they basically waited to do a movie after Enterprise ended and why the wait was longer. But at least there was plans to do something.

Now not only have we went through literally 5 plans now, there is zero talk about any other ideas…because Paramount probably doesn’t have any. That’s seems to be the reality. I notice you always bring up the movie idea even in threads its not about that. I can tell you really want one. I don’t think we’re getting another one in the next 3-5 years at this rate. They don’t seem like they have the money or enthusiasm to make another one. It’s probably just not a lot of interest to make a movie that will probably just make between just $3-400 million at the end of the day even if they lower the budget by $100 million to make it. If that’s all the Mission Impossible movies made, they wouldn’t be making two of them back-to-back either.

They want movies that can make real profits and as I said in another post, Paramount probably won’t make another one until the finally accept these movies are middle tier movies with middle tier profits. These should be $120 million movies that can aim for around $350-400 million. Unfortunately I guess it’s just not enough for today’s movie culture.

It’s easier to prioritize getting to a theatre when you’re younger and have a fan friend or a partner who will come along. Especially, decades ago when movies were viewed as a great activity to get out.

I saw every movie opening day or at least week from The Motion Picture through Nemesis, with the exception of V The Final Frontier. (I had exams.).

My spouse and I also managed to get to Star Trek 2009 fairly quickly.

But with young kids, it was a major effort to get out. Kids who are in daycare all week are less amenable to babysitting evenings and weekends. So, we found ourselves staying in for movies and saving our time out together for other kinds of events.

Now, I’m pretty sure that it would have to be something other than a Kelvin film to get any of the family out, and I wouldn’t be motivated enough to go alone ( even if I did for VI.)

Oh yeah I hear you! And even for me it’s not always easy. Notice I always say opening weekend and not opening day because that’s not always possible either but I would always go on opening day if I could lol.

But I know people with kids its just not always possible at times no matter what. Luckily movies stay in theaters longer than a weekend. ;)

That SFX logo makes me think of something else.

They’d often obscure the lower bit of the ‘F’ in the 90s, always seemed to be when there were covers of Buffy, Scully,Troi,Lois etc

Can’t wait for this! 👍👍

everyone has an opinion on star trek movies… it’s hilarious… i love the frakes but do you know how many times someone in or out or covering the franchise has said that there will be no more movies? lots. so i take what he says with a grain of salt… but i love what hes been doing on all the shows. also it is interesting JJ cant get this thing together… at this point i’d be happy if they did the hawley one or the tarantino one… a lower decks movie could be awesome

Yea, I love some of these “Mensas” on various Trek web sites that keep insisting there will be no more Kelvin movies like they can predict the future. LOL. I mean, the studios frequently eventually decide to revisit old casts in franchises, so even if there are no Kelvin movies in the next few years, I could certainly see them hit the sentimentality button and bring back the Kelvin cast in 2030 for one more film. All this “IT’S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN” BS from these “Einsteins” just kill me…lol

Is there really any sentimentality for Kelvin era cast? I don’t doubt those films have a section of fans but I don’t think it’s the same sort of fandom that TOS or TNG generated. Bringing back the kelvin cast would be turning a new slate and having to attract a whole new cinematic audience. There would surely be no inbuilt large enough trek fanbase as it is, let alone also having to get general moviegoers involved.

I think it most likely they’d make a completely different sort of trek movie next time. So moving away from the ensemble cast dynamic and making a more intense character piece that has one or two stars, that sort of thing. I could be completely wrong though. However I am 99.8% certain there will be another Star Trek movie. The question is how soon, not if.

Sentimentality needs more time to cook. I’ll give you a real Trek example. At the time enterprise was canceled most fans had had enough of that series and didn’t think very highly of it. Fast forward to today and there’s a sizable percentage of fans who now have embraced the series (not me, lol) and would like to see the characters brought back.

Again, this is the difference between television and cinematic features. The movies just aren’t a vehicle to build nostalgia.

Enterprise got a second life with syndicated television reruns and global streaming. People like to work through show that have runs of several complete seasons and don’t end on a never completed cliffhanger. For all the faults of the series finale, we didn’t get that. So, Enterprise gets its chance from fans old and new.

The Kelvin movies are bouncing from one streamer to another as long-negotiated licensing agreements are fulfilled. For the most part, after a month they’re buried in the library with many more appealing things to watch.

Tell that to James. Cameron and Tom Cruise

Top Gun and Avatar were both big box office juggernauts in their first run.

That can’t be said about any of the Kelvin movies.

Top Gun was actually still Tom Cruise’s biggest film of his career until Maverick came around once you adjusted for inflation. And fans have been begging for another movie for 30 years now and why it’s so big.

Top Gun Maverick made more in it’s first four days domestically alone than Beyond did domestically total. It took less than a week to pass Beyond’s total box office.

And to add more salt to the wound Maverick also cost $15 million less than Beyond did as well.

To make the point even bigger, Maverick made more money than all three Kelvin movies combined.

What’s more funny, even the original Top Gun still made more money than Beyond did in 1986 BO dollars and that movie had a $15 million budget at the time.

I can only imagine how many phone calls Tom Cruise is getting from Paramount about doing another one. No one bothered to even call anyone in the Kelvin cast even when they were pretending to make a movie for the last year.

The Kelvin movies are just middle tier movies with overpriced budgets and why they are DOA until that changes, no one should be surprised why there is nothing going on for 6 years now. I’m hoping they finally just move on completely new (and much cheaper) by now. I think most fans are at this point are or Beyond would’ve done better in the first place.

I think there is still an audience for the Kelvin cast IMO, I just don’t believe there is any real enthusiasm for them anymore either. But even if there isn’t another Kelvin movie I do think we will see them again in another format and even a possible show.

Frakes never said there would be no more movies, he simply stated the obvious and that getting a movie off the ground is hard for many reasons. The last movie was suppose to be shooting now lol. It was suppose to be released in December. Well…

And he said that the future of Trek will always be on TV. And probably because it’s simply more reliable and where the fanbase mostly lives. Star Trek started as a TV show first and foremost, so that always be its main home.

And as shown with the Kelvin movies, they have to rely on new fans as well as old to be a success and that’s a more fickle business to be in. Paramount realized that literally decades ago and exactly why 9 of the 13 movies were budgeted films in the first place.

I don’t have any doubt another movie will be made at some point, but it’s not going to drive the franchise the way the shows do because they aren’t made for old fans like the shows are which is also a big part of the problem.

Maybe they’ll be a Strange New Worlds version of the same characters replacing Kelvin. Though i’m still not sold on the new Kirk.

Sure, anything is possible. But it can’t be $150+ million either whatever film they do next…at least not the first one. And yeah I don’t like the new Kirk at all so far.

Oh and for the record, I am pushing for the Lower Decks campaign that we get seven seasons and a movie! It’s going really well so far, three other people seems to agree with me! But yeah I really want more movies and I would love if one was a Lower Decks movie someday as well. Probably will never happen but I also said we’ll never see Robert Beltran play Chakotay again…and here we are.

Stargate did some great comedic episodes. But that show had really talented writers and actors.

LOL ouch!!!

I think that series was more about the great lead and supporting cast that hid the weaknesses in the writing. Once Richard dean Anderson left the series was kind of meh.

Neither ever held my attention.

I take Stargate Atlantis and Stargate Universe anytime over Stargate: SG1.

Jonathan Frakes 2023: “TV is the future!”
Will Riker 2366: “What is TV???”

And best forget about ST movies international box office, it no big enough to make up for budgets or losses

Star Trek’s future is Star trek’s past. Strange New Worlds.

Becuase it’s the closest to GENE RODDENBERRY’S STAR TREK – it is his STAR TREK taken into it’s original direction, with an updating to the 2020’s – It’s his core characters and truest to any STAR TREK projected – but without Gene’s “Quirkiness” getting in the way…Sadly, STAR TREK was at it’s best when others – Gene Coon, Bob Justman, Herb Solow were doing the heavy lifting on the writing and production side – Gene had TOO MUCH involvement in early TNG – that is why Season 1 and Season 2 is a mess. Gene as a writer isn’t bad – not great, but had good concepts and ideas when he didn’t have to deal with the day-to-day stuff…which ST:SNW proves HE WAS RIGHT!