Interview: Jonathan Frakes Says ‘Picard’ Season 3 Has A Lot Of Riker & He Hopes To Do More Star Trek

TrekMovie had a chance to talk to Jonathan Frakes this week as he is out raising awareness for the Pancreatic Cancer Action Network. Earlier in the week, we posted the first part of our interview where he talked about his personal connection to the cause as well as discussing directing the upcoming Strange New Worlds/Lower Decks crossover episode. In the second half of the interview, we talk about his return as William Riker for the third (and final) season of Star Trek: Picard as well as his desire to keep on Trekking into the future.

You are all over the latest Picard trailer, how much Riker are we going to get?

Ten Rikers! There is one episode where I only have a brief scene, but I’m in all ten. Terry [Matalas] came to me during season 2 and he said, “How do you feel about playing a lot of Riker?” I had already done it in season 1 and said, “Yeah, I’m psyched. I’m looking forward to it.” I had no idea he meant like full Riker [laughs]. But I got to say, it was a blast. It was a blast to work with Patrick [Stewart] again, as an actor. It was kind of emotional. And I had great stuff with Marina [Sirtis] again, who I adore. It was all I could have hoped for and I think the fans are going to go cuckoo. I think season three is going to crush. I had plenty of good Riker stuff during seven years and certainly on First Contact, but the Riker stuff [Terry Matalas] wrote for the character is denser and more interesting. It has a greater sense of irony. There’s a lot of levity.  I mean, he just gets the characters in such a positive way.

But yet he isn’t beholden to write them exactly as they were back in the ’90s?

Exactly. They are not. I have a very strong conflict. Riker has a big conflict with Picard as part of the arc of this season. A kind of “f— you, you’re wrong!” kind of conflict.

Yeah, Terry has said there is a kind of Crimson Tide moment, so I guess you are Denzel and Patrick is Hackman.

Exactly! That’s what his reference. I got the better gig [laughs]. They are so dogged and they’re both right at the peak of their acting careers.

Have you had a chance to see many of the final versions of the episodes? 

I am about to see a couple of episodes before I do The Ready Room with Wil Wheaton. I directed episodes 3 and 4, so I have seen those, or at least the versions that I turned in.

Terry has described this as a “proper sendoff” for you guys, a kind of do-over for Nemesis. Does it feel like it wraps up things for Next Gen and Riker?

It is much more exciting for us collectively than Nemesis was. But it doesn’t feel so much as an ending as the possibility of moving forward. I think there’s a future.

At New York Comic Con you guys seemed to be pitching for more, including Patrick.

I was really impressed with Patrick’s New York Comic Con appearance on the panel. He was speaking right into the lens to Paramount, “I’m ready to do another movie.” That was thrilling. Remember when Picard first was conceived, the public concept was that it was all about Jean-Luc Picard. It was not going to be a Next Generation reboot. It was not going to be next next generation. It was going to be Picard’s story having left Starfleet. And that’s what Patrick signed up to do and that’s what the first two seasons were. We had a little snippet where Riker and Troi were in the first season and then the wonderful heroic moment with Riker in episode 10 of season 1. So there was a taste of the Next Gen people being involved in his life. But somewhere along the line season 3 became–as you’ll see–all the essential parts of the Next Generation were kind of reassembled.

At Comic-Con you made a joke about Paramount having room in their schedule, coming right after the news about removing the latest J.J. Abrams movie from the 2023 schedule.

I actually wrote to J.J. to say “If you need an experienced guy to take over Star Trek 4, I’m available. [laughs] He said, “You are certainly experienced.”

So how serious is this? Are you ready to suit up again for a feature film behind and/or in front of the camera?

Why wouldn’t I? It changed my life, this job. Both of my alleged careers have been blessed by having been part of this Star Trek family starting 35 years ago.

So any real talks with JJ?

Well no, that’s not going to happen, but I was fascinated when Tarantino wanted to do a Star Trek movie. And Noah Hawley too, I am a huge Fargo fan. His brain with our characters in our world, and what would Tarantino do? Just the idea of it is wild.

With Tarantino, it would have certainly been different, although it almost certainly would not had fit with the JJ movies or the TOS and TNG movies, but it could have been a wild standalone thing.  

What’s changed a lot of this is the Deadpool world and the tongue deeply embedded in the cheek of a lot of the Marvel movies now.

Right, and with all the multi-verse stuff, there is much more understanding of how things don’t need to always fit. 

No, and I think the studios are not afraid of self-depreciation, and irony, and a really good dose of levity inside of these franchises.

Back to the Paramount+ TV side, Terry talked about wanting to do a Picard spinoff series and how he has sort of set up the next Next Generation, which could also include the legacy people. Is that something you are interested in?

He and I discuss it every time we talk. As you’ll see, the place we are at the end of episode 10 of season three sure feels to me like it could continue into the next next story.

If something like that happened, how deeply involved would you want to be? A recurring character, executive producer, producer-director?

All of the above. I would love to be involved with him as an executive producer, certainly. And I really like working with Terry. I would love to have the producing director role like [Olatunde Osunsanmi] has for Discovery, especially if it would shoot in LA. My wife is here on General Hospital so it’s a long time to be away if you do a producing-directing job in another city, like Toronto, where the studios are built and waiting for more Star Treks to come in.

Jonathan Frakes with Brent Spiner and John de Lancie on the set directing for Star Trek: Picard season 2

The final season of Star Trek: Picard premieres on Thursday, Feb. 16, 2023, exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., with new episodes of the 10-episode-long season available to stream weekly on Thursdays. Picard streams exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S. and is distributed concurrently by Paramount Global Content Distribution on Amazon Prime Video in more than 200 countries and territories, and in Canada it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.

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Praise V’ger! there’s going to be more TNG after Picard S3! 😭🙏🖖

Well maybe.

Actually, I’d like prefer see V’ger again than have ANOTHER TNG follow-on series. Looking forward to this TNG sendoff in Picard S3, but then it’s time to move on. And Mulgrew’s already got her series, and Seven had Picard, so that goes for Voyager as well.

creator, i have returned….

I was SO SURE that Discovery season 4 was V’Ger. Man was I off on that one.

*fingers crossed* and even more so that it will be actually good. Because if S3 is anything like S1 and 2, I’m not sure I want more TNG. TNG didn’t age well after the initial series like TOS did.

Love love LOVE Johnathan Frakes! This man oozes Star Trek in the best ways possible. Yes, put him in the next show, let him produce it and direct the next film too. I think most fans would be happy with all of that. ;D

In all seriousness, I am really happy he’s in every episode next season which I assumed. It really does feel like a getting the band back together vibe. And it does sound like it could be some type of TNNG spin off Idea (not a typo) and could have a mixture of old and new characters. Ironically I don’t see Riker himself as being a permanent character in the spin-off show but certainly a recurring character. Frakes does seem more at home behind the camera these days.

As for another TNG movie, would be all for it. But I’ve given up on the idea we’ll get another movie in the next five years. And truthfully I think Paramount needs to just wipe the slate clean and start fresh with new actors and characters building on a new franchise that can last at least a decade.

I expect another TNG film would be a P+ streaming exclusive event, not a theatrical release. There’s no way the studio would actually put up the money for that.

To be honest I feel that way about ANY Star Trek film they will do next and why the Kelvin movies are dead in the water because they probably want a movie geared more for Paramount+ but still too costly to do overall.

I mean I would expect one to be released in theaters but it will be there for a few weeks and the bulk of the views will come from P+. I think if they made a TNG film they would release it in theaters but just more limited release like the old days or do what Netflix and Amazon does for some of their movies, release it for a 1-3 weeks in limited theaters for the die hards to watch and then send it to their service. Or it can do a hybrid where you play it in the markets you know will sell like America, Europe, etc for a few weeks but everywhere else just release it directly on the site.

Either way, I think the big tentpole distribution model for Star Trek films like the Kelvin movies are over and it’s more about streaming now if they are going to make smaller movies in the future regardless of cast (and they really really should).

That idea of releasing it directly on the site everywhere else is hampered by the fact that Paramount Plus isn’t actually available in most places.
I have no idea of the finances around streaming. Netflix definitely seems to be able to refinance movies without a theatrical release. But didn’t Warner Brothers lose quite a lot of money by dumping movies on HBO-Max?

They did. But WBD has a different mindset. They have DC characters that can make a LOT of money overseas. Star Trek has typically performed much better in theaters in the US than it does overseas anyways. Now streaming is different of course but the budget for a streaming movie vs a theatrical release movie would be much lower so it could be well worth it.

Yeah that’s true obviously. But in those places it would just go to digital/Blu Ray etc like the ‘old days’ I guess. That’s what happens in places in countries that don’t have all these services like HBO Max, etc now.

Yeah HBO Max lost money for sure but they dumped ALL their movies on that site lol. And huge films that were suppose to go to the theater. They weren’t made for Max in mind. But that was during Covid obviously. I didn’t complain I loved it lol. We already had HBO Max and I think I watched all of them on that service. Dune was the only one I bothered to watch in the theater…and then watched it again on Max at home the next day. ;)

The point I’m making is that the next Trek movie will probably be a smaller movie in general and geared more for the site. That seems to be just basic reality since according to Anthony Pascal a big reason the last Kelvin movie died once again was they couldn’t get the funding for it. MAYBE that will change but they it was already on the schedule for over a year before they finally took it off the schedule. So cheaper movies has to be in the cards in the future since everyone seems afraid of another big Trek film not making enough money.

But if it’s TNG or something else entirely I think they will all go to the theaters first just more limited. No more trying to get into China or stuff like that.

If they do a Trek film featuring the TNG cast – and hopefully including some of the cast of DS9 and VOY – I agree with you, it would be a very limited theatrical release in certain markets before coming to Paramount+ exclusively.

Yeah I think it will be done like the shows are now, it won’t JUST be the TNG cast, we’ll see DS9/VOY characters as well.

But yeah I don’t know if I see a movie going ONLY to Paramount+. I think there will always be a theatrical release at least of some kind, just maybe closer to what TOS/TNG did and just in the markets those did well in if they are smaller/cheaper films. This is obviously just my guess but if they don’t think a movie is even worth putting in a theater for a few weeks then its probably less incentive to make one and just keep focusing on the shows.

Agreed. 1 out of 3 TNG movies was a hit, and the box office never reached the level of the more iconic TOS movies.

Lets not forget that the theaters still have not fully recovered from COVID and even before COVID Star Trek even at its height has never performed well against the summer blockbusters. A Star Trek movie right now in theaters might not be the best idea.

Good point

It’s probably another reason why they aren’t in a rush to make another one. And Beyond bombed in the summer and we were very Covid free then. ;)

Yep. But that was their own fault too. How do you release beyond on the 50th anniversary of Trek and not hype it up with ads???

Yeah certainly true. But I think it opened their eyes a bit too. They seemed to think that the movies were in SUCH a good place they didn’t have to pull all the stops for it and probably thought it would do at least what STID did when nobodies like me was saying for six months before opening I didn’t see the movie doing anything (sorry ;)) beyond $400 million. I had SO many people yelling at the time at on IMDB and it did $60 million less than that lol.

And for the record, I don’t think just reminding people it was the 50th anniversary was going to suddenly turn into some huge hit. Mostly because A. the majority of people that didn’t show up were the ‘new’ fans and they don’t care about the anniversary so that wasn’t going to persuade them to go regardless. And B. all the old fans knew it was the 50th and many STILL didn’t bother lol. It may have gotten a few more people to go and at least make a tiny profit, but I’m going to guess nothing beyond $30-60 million. End of the day, the movie itself just didn’t sell enough people to watch it.

But it wouldn’t have been perceived as a failure and we probably wouldn’t still be waiting for another one to show up 6 years and counting. :(

I agree and honestly it makes sense. Anything theatrical coming out I suspect would be budgeted for blockbusters like Top Gun 3 or Mission Impossible 50 or whatever number we are at now.

I love Frakes too. Its so refreshing to see someone so prominent in a franchise that isn’t bitter of it and loves his roots and just wants to be a part of it as much as he can and embraces and loves the fans so much. And he puts so much heart into his work and it shows. First Contact was one of the best movies, not just the best TNG movie.

Seriously. They could do so, so much worse than handing Frakes director duties on another film, streaming or no.

I feel like so many times they want to go after big names (looking at you Tarantino and JJ) rather than people who have passion for the role and who would do justice to the project.

Frakes obviously feels he owes his entire career to Star Trek and he has no problem saying that. It’s made him rich and famous, I think that’s why most actors act lol. Maybe without it, he would’ve fell into another big franchise and would be devoted to that one today. But I think it’s obvious he just loves everything about it, as a job obviously but also its philosophy, and its fandom. He gets a rush just talking Star Trek 30 years later in a way others you can tell has kind of tired of it (which is totally understandable). But Frakes is just happy to be there lol. If you ask him to do a walk on cameo for $700, he’ll show up early with his own costume on.

It’s great to see! And I hope he continues making more Trek shows and maybe movies again. But we need more Frakes in this franchise for sure.

Lurking in the business undercurrents, whenever the streamers come up in conversation on any of the business channels, the one company that keeps getting mentioned as an acquisition target is P+. Why? It’s still a small fish in a big ocean.
It will remain to be seen if new corporate overlords have the same commitment to Trek that CBS does.

You’re right about P+ still being a smaller fish. It’s really funny I been seeing a few articles and videos discussing the ‘streaming wars’ and a lot of the time P+ isn’t even included in the conversation. It’s usually the big four: Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime and HBO Max. But P+ is doing fairly well these days, just doing a quick search it has around the same subscribers as Hulu has. So it’s growing and certainly far and away from CBS All Access lol.

As for Star Trek if the site is sold I think it will be fine because it’s really the only big IP there now. I know they are building up more brands finally like the Yellowstone spin off shows which I never seen at all but that thing is becoming the next Marvel lol. But I Star Trek still has the bigger brand awareness. But they could cut down on some of the shows yearly.

Oops, minor mistake, it was suppose to be Disney+ as part of the big four, not Hulu lol. But I mixed it up since Hulu is basically owned by Disney too. I even have the Disney/Hulu bundle.

When I first read your post yesterday I was wondering: DIdn’t you forget Disney+ there? ;-)

Regarding your last paragraph: There was an article recently that Star Trek is no longer the highest-performing show on Paramount Plus. Based on their PR statements they are still very happy with the numbers Trek pulls in so there’s no need to panic (or rejoice for those who hate the current Trek shows) but I think that the times when Trek was “safe” simply because they didn’t have anything to replace it with may be coming to an end.

Yeah I have no idea how I manged to forget Disney+ lol.

And I agree with everything else. When Discovery arrived, there was NO other big brand shows on that site, only Star Trek at the time. It was so limited in so many ways. Now they have things like South Park, SpongeBob, HALO, etc. And a real movie library that probably brings in more people today. My own neighbor signed up for P+ for the first time just to watch the new horror movie ‘Smile’. They are certainly not watching Star Trek on it.

But the site just needs more diverse offerings period. Of course for us we care about more Trek than anything but it can’t live or die on Star Trek alone either. When it was just AA, that’s all I watched it on. Now it’s great to have more options although ironically I still haven’t watched ANY new original shows on it outside of Trek. But I watch tons of movies on it now.

And I’m not worried about Star Trek disappearing anytime soon. We all know there will be a 25th century spin off show and probably the Academy show to replace Discovery. But they might slow down on premiering new shows in time. They may not be able to keep up the all year thing forever but probably for a few more years. It’s all still new right now but like the Berman era at some point you have to take a break and that was still 25 seasons worth of shows lol. And more episodes per season as well. But we’ll probably get a solid decade of shows no matter what in this new era.

Just not Disney or Comcast please. Not Disney because they are big enough and I do not want to see trek merged with Star Wars. And not Comcast because even more than the Mouse Comcast is PURE EVIL!

I can’t see the Govt allowing Disney to purchase any media company in the future. They have already purchased Pixar, Marvel, Lucasfilm and 20th Century.

Yeh that’s true. I mean they practically own all of holywood at this point.

Just saw a headline that Disney has fired its current CEO and reinstated its previous (retired) CEO because they are struggling. Apparently, it’s especially the streaming service that causing them huge losses.

Strange as youd think D+ would generate huge income ?? (surely its the main streamer for households to have along with netflix) Maybe they pouring too many hundreds of millions into SW and Marvel shows that ppl aren’t watching in huge numbers?? (probably better to be making some them as movies, like ObiWan)

It’s probably that they are dumping more money into content than they get in return in terms of subscriptions. Also, as far as I understand it, Disney+ had a relatively quickly rollout in a lot of countries. That can’t be cheap.

hes right about Tarantino Trek. it would be fasinating to see. Paramount should totally risk it as a one off standalone movie. who knows maybe it would bring in 700m worldwide like Deadpool.


If it would be Tarantino’s Trek i have a feeling we get some Western Style Trek.

You know like Beyond just with more Laser Pew Pew and a one on one duel standoff

I think we went on record in saying as much :)


Hasn’t it been reported that Tarantino has moved on from the project? Sure, Paramount could offer him a lot of money to get his name attached in some form. But he didn’t write the Trek project he was previously involved with (they had hired a different writer) and he wasn’t interested in directing it so that would only leave some kind of producer credit.

I mean, it’s not like he’s gonna be able to pitch that script anywhere else, so I assume if Paramount wanted to pick it up still at some point, and work with QT to find a Director, they’d make a deal

The question is: How much of a pull will it have with Tarantino fans if Tarantino is barely involved?

TBH, he could simply say, “Go see it!” and I probably would.

Not only that, if they marketed it as, “Quentin Tarantino’s vision for Star Trek,” can you imagine the hype it would generate. I mean, you don’t just buy the script, but you also give him an Exec producers credit and let him help choose the director, and advise the project.

Given where they are at right now, this seems the only concept where they could go “tentpole film” investment level on in the near future. Might as well — I’d see it probably multiple times. It would certainly be nice to see something at the opposite polar end of the spectrum from that overrated middle-school humor and gimmick-based cartoon show that many fans seem to wet their pants over these days…lol

Tarantino has never been a “tentpole film” guy, neither in terms of budget nor boxoffice.His biggest movie ever (Django Unchained) made less than Star Trek Into Darkness at the international boxoffice (granted it also cost much less).
If Paramount is still hoping for tent pole boxoffice on a tent pole budget then Tarantino doesn’t seem the right guy for it.

I don’t want to burst people’s bubbles but the reason why the Tarantino idea went nowhere because it sounded like an AWFUL idea for a Star Trek movie that would only attract hardcore Star Trek fans. They wrote the script 5 years ago already. Paramount has only actually commented on it ONCE lol. Back in 2018 IIRC. Everyone else who talked about it was the Kelvin actors and Tarantino and the writer himself. Paramount moved on it long ago or they could’ve developed even if Tarantino didn’t direct it.

I’m personally glad it never happened. A time travel gangster Star Trek movie??? Seriously? Sorry but no, I think it was passed for a reason. And remember, Tarantino also wanted the bizarre idea of making the Kelvin universe characters into Prime universe characters for some reason. My guess so he could’ve had Pine do as much Shatnerisms as possible. It just sounded like a really bad idea all around.

Now that said, nothing stops them from turning it into a novel or a comic book. I think that would be fun to have and actually feasible. Or turn it into a story podcast like they are doing with Meyer’s Khan story.

But as a $100+ million Trek movie just sounded like a disaster waiting to happen and Paramount obviously knew it.

Exactly. Tarantino is a big name who makes great movies but he doesn’t get Star Trek at all. He’s even said that he doesn’t get how the Kelvin movies are a different universe than Prime and when he asked JJ, JJ admitted he didn’t get it either *facepalm*. In all honesty, other than box office, a Tarantino Trek movie would be a bad idea for the overall franchise.

yes but no one was entirely sure where Logan fitted in in the various XMen timelines and yet most consider it the best Xmen film (along with DOFP) and it did 700m (with an R rating!)

a movie version of Piece of the Action (with elements of City on the Edge?) from Tarantino does sound pretty preposterous but we’re not entirely sure what exactly it was or how itd fit into the canon. Paramount wouldve been better off going with Tarantino than dilly dallying around with all the Hemsworth, Hawley, Shakman stuff

Exactly. At this point why not roll a dice a bit given where the movie franchise is?

maybe QTs forthcoming 8 episode tv series hes written&directing will be his star trek lol

The problem is it sounded like a one off type of thing that would’ve been geared to people on boards like this….and no one else. That seem like the main issue among many.

Paramount is looking for a FRANCHISE, something that will not only bring in newer fans but can keep the machine going with more sequels. This sounded like a niche movie in every sense of the word; which is what Tarantino usually plays in, but that’s not what a major IP like Star Trek is either. They are trying to find the next $500+ million movie, not the next $300-400 million movie.

Ironically that would probably be something you do ON Paramount+ as a one off kind of thing like what Marvel is doing with the holiday specials like the Werewolf special they made (never watched it) or the upcoming GOTG Christmas special. Something in between the shows and the theatrical movies, but its own thing.

yes itd have just been an experimental one off like say Logan or Deadpool sort of were (obvs in DPs case its ongoing.. but then if Tarantino Trek made 750m you can bet Par wouldve wanted more and we’d have had the Tarantinoverse!)

Fascinating to see. And i’m sure fun for general audiences. And I’m sure a boon for the franchise for a short while. but a trainwreck for the core fanbase.

The way the media is constantly after Tarantino for his close relationship with Weinstein, don’t be surprised if he is ‘cancelled’ sometime soon.

There is no issue there other than Tarantino regretting he missed the signals of what Weinstein was doing, and he will easily recover from that. If you we a close guy friend of Weinstein, obviously you should expect to be scrutinized. It is what it is — the media is doing its job, and Weinstein’s friends and colleagues need to be vetted on what they new given this tragedy.

The description of a conflict between Picard and RIker bodes well. When TNG explored this scenario in “The Pegasus” (and to a much lesser extent, in “Yesterday’s Enterprise”) the result was a first-rate episode.

What bodes ill is the “with all the multi-verse stuff, there is much more understanding of how things don’t need to always fit” comment, although fortunately that seems to have originated from the interviewer, not Frakes himself.

that was about riker withholding what he knew about the pegasus and pressman.
this looks like something bigger.

We know from the Stewart/McFadden press events earlier this summer that not all the TNG crew are on good terms or have kept in touch. Season 1 of PIC showed us that Picard is still on good terms with Riker and Troi, I mean he felt comfortable enough to seek them out for help, and that reunion was warm. I mean they all dinner together and discussed the next steps Picard and Dahj should take. Perhaps it’s a specific action Picard takes in the upcoming season that puts Deanna at risk. The most recent trailer shows Deanna on a ship talking about an “all-consuming darkness.” Maybe Picard asks Deanna to come out of retirement to aid in the search for Beverly, and that sets Riker off?

They could revive Short Treks as an anthology series that could cover all eras of Star Trek, including the Kelvin Universe.

I was disappointed when Short Treks just stopped. I always thought it was a great format to explore stories with legacy characters. It satisfies the obvious fan desire to continue checking in with legacies from the TNG era (including DS9 and VOY), and frees up the next live action series to focus on new characters/stories.

Agree. Short Treks was such a cool vehicle to do one-off stories, experiment with different ways of storytelling, etc. Such a shame it hasn’t continued.

At least the live-action Short Treks were mostly produced “on the cheap” using existing sets, props, costumes etc. It would be much more expensive to revisit other Trek eras. For example, they were able to visit DS9 in animated form on Lower Decks but it would be really cost-prohibitive to rebuild those sets for real.

I’ve thought about this. Obviously the Short Treks format would have to be tweaked a bit. When I think about using Short Treks to catch up with legacy characters, it wouldn’t make sense to spend just 25 minutes catching up with, say, the O’Briens or Bashir or characters that require prosthetics – Kira (less so), Garak, Quark, Torres.

The formula would be retooled. What if you had a ninety minute story, broken up over three parts? There could be two or three legacies featured in all three parts, but each part would also revisit and catch up with other legacies who are supporting the primary story. It would allow for characters who’ve never worked together or interacted to be part of a story that gets resolved at the end.

As for the sets issue – yes rebuilding all those sets would be cost-prohibitive. Redress a few of the DSC/SNW sets as necessary and use the AR wall for the rest.

Paramount+ could produce two stories per year – a 3-part at the beginning of the year, and a separate 3-part story toward late summer/early fall. Maybe they would overlap with other Treks, maybe they wouldn’t? Unless there’s an ace up the sleeves of the powers-that-be, 2024 is going to have a big gaping hole in the Trek schedule.

I’m disappointed too but it’s kinda understandable once they got so busy with so many full fledged shows. I do wish it would come back tho, esp in the few weeks of the year when we have dry spells of no Trek.

I’d love that. We could get Captain Worf of the Enterprise F, Captain Sulu, Jake Sisko Investigative reporter, whatever….

Frakes as a person just makes me so so so happy. I love how infectious his enthusiasm is.


We have only been waiting 30 years for the Riker series. Lets bring it on. I would hope they could do it in a way which makes it more SNW like and not as dark as Picard and Discovery.

Also, the period could be right to have a Captain Boimer and Captain Tendi.

“Also, the period could be right to have a Captain Boimer and Captain Tendi”

Sigh. To think that once upon a time, real life organizations like United Airlines screened TNG to show Picard as an example of sound cockpit resource management (CRM). The US Navy reportedly did the same to showcase leadership.

Somehow, I don’t think we’re going to see “drones in Ukraine? I LOVE IT!!!” being taught to our next generation of warfighters.

When the series was first announced way back in STLV (seems like forever ago) they made it clear that Picard was not going to be TNG revisited. S1 really did have a lot of potential and overall I liked the story and the new characters. That said, they really messed things up with S2 and that more or less forced their hand to make (and I may be wrong) something that miraculously and shockingly sounds like an 8th season of TNG.

I have to admit, I am really looking forward to Picard S3!

I honestly think that was only because Stewart was adamant it wouldn’t be a TNG revival. But with Kurtzman, CBS, etc, that’s probably what they wanted from the start. SNW is nothing more than a back door TOS prequel starring Pike, so they probably wanted another TNG show again. It sounds like once they got him back they kept pushing for it until he finally gave in lol. And he did say himself he loved Nepenthe in season one because he got to work with Frakes and Sirtis again; so it probably brought nostalgia back for him as well.

And as someone who was excited for but then felt let down by both seasons, this is sadly the only way to get me excited about season 3 at this point. And even now I’m still a bit skeptical but excited to see them all back.

All this is pretty much how I see it Tiger2.

Except of course that I need to underscore once again that I really wanted more of Pike’s Enterprise before we got into laying down pipe for TOS.

I mean it’s kind of a no-brainer to bring the entire TNG cast back when you still got millions of fans streaming and binge watching TNG today decades later. This was a few years back but on Star there was a poll and TNG was the most binged watch show for Trek fans. It’s probably still the most watched Trek show today, especially for newer fans getting into the franchise.

I understood Stewart’s POV, he didn’t want to just repeat that and frankly there is no guarantees bringing them all back would mean we would’ve gotten a great revival. It’s obvious that didn’t happen with Picard himself. But now that it’s the last season it was even more of a reason to do it.

It’s really funny, I remember reading some article last year on this site published back in 2007. People really thought TNG was just over. Like in a few years it would just be forgotten completely and just that show ‘old’ fans will watch in reruns or something but it’s influence on the franchise going forward was done lol. It’s always surprising how myopic some Star Trek fans are. I’m sure they all realize now that didn’t exactly turn out to be the case. ;)

As far as SNW, yeah, I’m NOT surprised at all about it, but it is unfortunate it became a TOS hybrid show out of the gate. I mean they basically got rid of all the characters from The Cage except Number One (you can’t get rid of Spock ;)). I remember at the time saying I wouldn’t be shocked we wouldn’t have Boyce as a character but I didn’t think they wipe him from existence either lol. Maybe he will show up in an episode someday or at least name dropped.

The new characters for PIC were a complete failure. We had Romulan Elf boy, cigar smoking El Capitan, neurotic super smart scientist woman, loud-mouthed junkie (who is the only one they’re keeping), boring robot daughter and sexy Romulan playboy spy(who just disappeared).

Yeah, why can’t the characters be more like the outstanding young officers on Lower Decks?

I will say I do like most of the Picard characters, but I don’t think they failed as characters, it was the premise of the show that failed them. I was saying back in first season, how do you continue this premise of a band of rag-tag group of people hanging out on a cargo ship with a 100 year old admiral season after season? The entire premise just felt too forced once the first season was over.

And the funny thing is the producers agreed with me lol. Because what did we see in second season? They threw practically all of them back in Starfleet but then most of them had nothing to do in the story to the point Soji and Elnor were just erased from the story line. They gave Rios, Seven and Raffi nothing to do except run around the city and talk about their relationship problems or gave Rios a girlfriend. But there was really nothing for them to do. Dr. Jurati at least had a real story line and we know how that ended. And of course even the entire premise of season 2 felt forced because why are these specific characters sent back in time with Picard? Other than they were the stars of the show. At least when Q sent the gang to Nottingham to play Robin Hood he sent Picard his closest shipmates who he knew as well. But it felt so random in season 2 like why is Seven being picked to go with them??? She’s not even in Starfleet.

Picard as a show had a lot of potential with interesting characters (IMO) but they squandered it very early on. So now we’re getting TNG season 8 lol.

Please, not my good pal Frakes shamelessly campaigning like Mulgrew for ANOTHER show? Sheesh. This is the send-off, enjoy it man, and then come back to the directors chair.

It’s time for some of the DS9 cast next — they need their show next. And even though I am not an Enterprise fan, they should be higher in the queue for a new series as well.

TNG cast and the two leads on the Voyager cast largely got their late in life returns (and paychecks!) to Trek…it’s time now for the DS9 and yes, even the Enterprise casts….or at least do shows with those first, AND ONLY THEN come back again to TNG or Voyager.

DS9 has been utterly robbed. It’s the show that has probably aged best out of all the older incarnations too. Sad times.


Yeah definitely want more DS9 characters showing up. Look how much fanfare they got on LDS! So I think we will see those characters in live action sooner than later. And maybe we will see some on Picard this season which Terry Matalas has hinted at so fingers crossed.

If the next live-action series does take place in the Picard era … *** fingers crossed*** … then yes, let’s shift to that area. A quarter of a century later, what is the relationship like between the Bajorans and the Cardassians? How have reconstruction efforts of what was left of the Cardassian empire fared? Did the Federation help in any way, perhaps in an attempt to promote unity in the Alpha Quadrant? Does the Federation still use the wormhole to explore and colonize parts of the Gamma Quadrant? Was Odo successful in his efforts to convince the Founders that the Federation wasn’t a threat to them? Who is in command of DS9? Does the station still exist in its previous form twenty five years later, and if so, does Miles O’Brien make quarterly trips to help keep it running?

Great post!

To me, that was the biggest let down of Picard season one, there SHOULD have been at least a small focus on the impact of the Dominion war. That’s literally a big reason why so many fans wanted a post-Nemesis show in the first place. In reality most people are really asking for a post-Dominion war story line to see how different the Alpha quadrant was shaped 20 years later.

Now of course I get Picard as a show shouldn’t be focused on what we saw in DS9 but considering how big of a story line it was people wanted to hear SOMETHING! But I know they already had to deal with the Romulus fallout (which I was happy to see) and added the Mars stuff, so it was already a lot. I was hoping we get some of it in season 2 but we knew season 2 was a time travel story.

Matalas has said we WILL see the effects of the Dominion war next season so he’s giving what a lot of fans want to see. Again I don’t think its ABOUT the Dominion war but it is part of the overall story based on what people been saying about it.

None of the original characters can carry a new series because they are either dead, boring, annoying or vowed to never come back. The only ones who could carry a series are the two non-original characters Worf and O’Brien.

LOL, Nana Visitor could absolutely carry a new series…give me a freaking break — and I would pair her with Ciric Loften (Jake Sisco) as the other lead. And Siddig is now ready to burry the hatchet as well — he’d be big in this. And they could find a way to bring Jadzia back — Ferrel would be on board. And then Worf, sure, bring Dorn back as part of the two hour premiere that is built around the plot that ends with Jadzia coming back. Plus, it certainly seems like Brooks and Shimmerman would be willing to appear in several eps per year. O’Brien, nah, not really needed.

It’s all good, man. No need to be obtuse; think bigger!

I love DS9 and I would watch those characters in a new show with bells on! I would watch a Quark sitcom if we got it lol. But more proof we’re not a monolith as a fandom.

its ‘star trek’, of course it has a future, now a forever franchise

Kind of makes you wonder if Paramount nudged JJ out of the franchise airlock.
TNG is the cash cow, as far as merchandising and licensing goes.
The buzz around PIC S3 is growing. I’m acquainted with some BTS people who’ve seen a few episodes. They’re calling it TNG S8. They’re gushing about it.
Now, I’m only GUESSING, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Shatner appears as Captain Kirk, one more time.
The snippets of the plotline I was told, suggests to me that it allows an organic way to bring Shatner back, as Kirk.
Let’s see if my hunch turns out to be right.
Paramount? If I’m right about my hunch, I’ll accept a tour of the Enterprise in Mississauga, to stay quiet. :-)

Do you mean Kirk appears in Picard?! Wow.

I just listened to the latest Trekmovie podcast discussing the Frakes interview and Anthony Pascal made a great point the biggest group in the fanbase right now are the 24th century fans for the obvious reasons being there is just a LOT more of those shows and we’re at a point age wise where a lot of the original TOS fans are (and I HATE to say this word) are dying off. So it’s not a shock why so many of the new shows are aimed in this era because that is the bulk of where fandom is today.

That’s why it was a genius idea for Prodigy to be a gateway for children to get into the franchise but also tie it to Voyager to get those parents who grew up with that show to try out Prodigy or watch it with their kids. I suspect we will get at least 2-3 shows in the 24th/25th century ASSUMING they make new shows for the next decade. I definitely want to see a DS9 spin off of some kind in the future too it being my favorite show and all. Why it was so great to finally see some of them back on LDS!

As for as Shatner showing up, I think they would be marketing that to the hilt if that was true. They certainly didn’t keep quiet with characters like Seven, Data, Q and Guinan coming back. I think to have the original Kirk would’ve been part of a huge campaign in itself. But hey if it’s true, that’s going to be MAJOR lol.

But yeah the TNG era is back in full swing and TNG is still the biggest of the bunch, so it’s not surprising they are trying to bring those characters back and some full time. None of this surprises me. The day it was announced Stewart was going to play Picard again, I knew it was going to open the door for all those characters and shows again. It’s no way we were only going to just get Picard back lol. Now, the door is wide open to bring anyone back at anytime and I welcome them all back! ;D

Yeah, but I don’t think you are going to see the level of media buzz for Picard Season three then you did for SNW and DSC, which were both TOS-era derived shows, and like it or not, are both much more popular with general audiences that expand the franchise than Picard or Lower Decks. TNG fans worldwide are mainly a sizable group of people in their 40’s and 50’s (just go to a TNG-focused convention and this clearly proves this), while TOS is so iconic still among all groups (again, I am talking worldwide, not just the U.S. and Europe), and Trek 09, DSC and SNW just keeps that going strong. And I think it’s pretty obvious that before long there will be a new Kirk/TOS series. That’s where the future of live action Trek will be in my opinion — because TOS is a level more iconic then TNG — always has been, and always will be.

Don’t get me wrong, I do think the Berman-era derived shows have a solid audience, but after we get through a few more years of these vanity return shows with grey-haired Berman actors, the future is going to focus more on TOS-derived series for the live action, while the kids animated shows will likely be where the animated shows stay focused on…and there is nothing wrong with that.

Discovery is more popular??? 😂

Bro what are you talking about??? It has a 36% rating on Rotten Tomatoes! 😂😂😂

It’s one of the lowest rated Trek shows ever. If you like it personally that’s cool but don’t throw out nonsense and treat it like a fact bro. And how is it more popular than Lower Decks?? Lower Decks rate higher than Discovery everywhere and been on less seasons to boot.

Discovery might be bringing in more hate watching but that’s about it. 😂

I think Prodigy and SNW is driving new people to watch the new shows because every time a newbie on say they want to try Kurtzman Trek those seem to be the shows people suggest the most.

To me TNG seems to be the show most new people watch as well. At least what gets suggested if they want classic Star Trek.

A newbie on Reddit I meant.

Lower Decks now has a 69% rating on Rotten Tomatoes. A year ago it was at 60%. It is getting more popular every season!

Prodigy is at 72% I think it was at 65% a year ago as well. I expect it to go higher by the end of the season.

SNW is definitely popular. It’s 80% on RT.

Yeah because those are actually good shows! 😂

If you think Discovery is a good show personally, that’s cool, but don’t throw out alternative facts pretending like it’s some beloved show in the fan base when everywhere you go people are complaining about it season after season. It doesn’t mean everyone hate it but it’s delusional to think it’s one of the top shows in the franchise.

I guess you can argue so is Star Trek Nemesis too, right?. And even that has a higher audience score than Discovery does! Hilarious! 🤣😀

And don’t get your argument if you’re suggesting people who watch TNG era fand are older, who exactly is watching TOS then?? Do you think it’s teenagers. That’s some bizarre logic. 😂

You just sound like an old TOS fan who obviously grew up with it trying to convince people that TNG era is going to die out but some how 13 year olds will only care about TOS in 5 years..uh no!

That’s not how it works. People who are watching shows like Prodigy, Lower Decks and Picard today will find new fans of those shows and will want those stories and characters to continue just like people who watch SNW and that super popular show no one can stop talking about, Discovery, will create new fans in the future too.

We know this because that’s what happened when TNG, DS9 and VOY. And new fans are watching those shows today too.

Pretending that the 24th century shows that’s been around for over 30 years is some kind of fad that will fade away once Lower Decks is done so will be 23rd century stuff even though there is only one show in that period now is hysterical.

That’s what people were saying when JJ verse and Discovery came around. 😂

That’s the irony, the fans were saying they were sick of prequels and reboots was ready to go forward again. That’s why they moved Discovery to the 32nd century and gave us three 24th century shows straight. You really think people are begging for more prequels?? I see the complete opposite, most want to keep going forward in the fan base, not backwards. SNW is great but no one seems to begging for more spin offs of it either.

We’ll going to be getting post Nemesis shows as long as Star Trek keeps being made.

Just accept it’s all popular in the fan base and they will all have their fans, period.

I will just say this. Yes TOS is iconic AS TOS, but no one other than TOS fans are begging for more TOS lol. Non-Star Trek fans DON’T care. They really really don’t care. What I mean is no new Star Trek fan in 2022 watches Star Trek because of TOS specifically. It’s not 1986 anymore. The Kelvin movies made that clear once the curiosity went away after STID and the new fans moved on. That’s why the Kelvin movies died so quickly, not the old fans, we’re not enough, but because the new fans stopped caring. We’re going to watch these movies regardless. But they didn’t attract new fans as hoped. That’s the irony, people KEEP saying TOS is the only show that non-fans are aware of, but as proven still doesn’t mean they will care just because you turn them into $200 million action movies.

But of course plenty of new fans obviously watch and adore TOS today, but that’s not the same as saying people want more of it. Most seem to love all of once they give a show a chance. That’s why ALL these shows are still popular. That’s why people are shouting for a Janeway show or a Worf show or a DS9 revival, etc, etc. That’s why we have shows like Picard, Prodigy, Lower Decks, etc.

And I grew up with TOS. I wouldn’t be a fan without it today. But I don’t want a TOS reboot. I didn’t want it in the Kelvin movies, I definitely don’t want another show. But sure if they make it, I will definitely watch. To me, SNW IS basically TOS in all but name only already. I’m pretty sure Scotty will show up in season 3 and McCoy will make an entrance in season 4. Once you throw in Kirk the very first season, it’s all open game now.

But I agree, I think most fans just want to go forward more than anything.. Build something NEW. I don’t think people are begging for more prequels and reboots either. If that was the case Discovery would’ve stayed in the 23rd century and we probably would’ve had a fourth or even fifth Kelvin movie. The divide on these are not an illusion, fans were torn on these projects for being prequels more than anything else (and yes just being bad prequels too if you didn’t like them).

I think JJ verse failed because it was just doing the same thing and both old and new fans just got tired of it. If they tried to make the movies beyond silly antics and blasting SABOTAGE in them thinking a 20 year old rap song was going to make me and other Millennials think Star Trek was ‘cool’ now just showed how badly JJ missed the mark.

Those movies were treated like Transformers movies, fun but no real depth. He got people who normally wouldn’t watch Star Trek to watch them, but they were just another loud summer movie to kill time, not to really take seriously.

I mean I love this TOS movies because they are smart and have thoughtful stories. Much more than the TNG movies and definitely JJ verse.

And I know TOS is very iconic of course. But I been a fan for over 20 years now and no one seems to be begging for more prequels like you said. Watching Enterprise, JJ verse and Discovery didn’t seem to make fandom love those shows or movies anymore just because they revolved around TOS. Enterprise got cancelled in fourth season,.JJ verse last movie bombed which was the biggest irony being the most TOS story and was celebrating TOS 50th anniversary. And Discovery was so bad and out of canon from TOS they moved it after 2 seasons because fans complained so much about it. 🤣🙄

SNW is doing it the best though. And if they make a spin off show from that, that would be cool too. 😎 I’m cool with more 23rd stories in general if it’s good.

But most fans want to go forward. I love TNG, but I’m not asking for a prequel or reboot to that either. The difference is you can still go forward with those guys like in Picard. We still don’t know the end of their stories yet. We know what happened to Kirk and Spock years ago already. Do we really need to be told it again? And again?

TOS is great but what makes me love Star Trek is to see the universe growing, not just repeating itself.

I saw for myself a convention hall in NJ double in size (from freaking Shatner’s session) 1.5 years ago with young people, and many women, who were obviously new fans — and were there on single day passes just to see SMG. So I don’t care what IMDB says, there are a lot of new fans of Trek based on that singular show. It’s growing the franchise, obviously. And Prodigy and SNW I think are doing the same. Lower Decks and Picard are sort of “insider shows” for hardcore, older fans, and I seriously doubt either is doing much to expand the franchise. These are my opinions, but at least my DSC opinion here is based on the groundswell of new fans that I actually saw with my own eyes versus sharing an IMBD rating with an emoji or ridicule (or just telling another fan that he’s old and out of touch) and suggesting that is a better measure of popularity than actual numbers of people…lol

I mean, SNW has also made the biggest splash by far of any of the new series…and that is another TOS-derived series. Come on, man, that just shows how it is. TOS is just far more iconic then TNG. Always has been, always will be.

Feel free to disagree. IDIC.

So you went to a Star Trek convention and found Star Trek fans who really liked a Star Trek show and that convinced you Discovery is really popular and well liked in the fan base? Wow who knew you could find that many fans for Discovery in one place? 😂😂

This is the bizarre logic I’ve seen in the internet in awhile and that’s saying something.

How do you know they were ‘new fans’ at a Star Trek convention??? Was There a sign?

I didn’t say IMDB, I said Rotten Tomatoes. But it’s also the least ranked Star Trek show on IMDB as well. 😂

As far as SNW, can’t people just like it because A. It’s just a good show on its own and B. it’s the first good live action Star Trek show in decades? How does that prove that people like TOS more just because they like the show? I like the show a lot too. I also like Prodigy and LDS a lot too? So how does that prove I like TOS more? Can you explain that for me?

I didn’t say TOS isn’t more iconic, I’m saying is that doesn’t mean people want more prequels of it or that people will suddenly not care about TNG after 35 years and counting. That’s your argument, trying to tell us that in a few years the new 24th shows will fade out and all these under 65 year old fans will just be happy to get Sulu and Scotty spin off shows or something lol.

Old Trekkies are funny! 🤣🤣

I think a huge reason SNW is successful is because they simply went back to the episodic format again and took the best elements of both TOS and TNG. That’s why I think DIS and PIC fails for many people, me included. The serial format doesn’t work or at least not as well as episodic shows as SNW and LDS does IMO. I don’t think it matters what period they are in, people just respond to quality shows and that’s all that should matter at the end of the day.

But I think going forward is always the best direction for this franchise. I just don’t really like prequels in general that much although I actually love Enterprise today but that took a LONG time lol. And I do like SNW too, but if I’m being honest about SNW, a lot of is because it’s comfort food Star Trek. Ironically for me watching it feels a lot like watching TNG or VOY in terms of the stories it tells and how it tells them. But yeah the first Trek prequel I can say I truly enjoy out of the gate.

Maybe one day I will love Discovery too, but it’s not even a prequel anymore so that’s obviously not the issue. In fact I should love it the most because for **me** I want see Trek keep going farther into the future and the show went waaaaay farther than I ever thought a show would lol.

But I want to see it expand as it goes. I’m really happy to have shows in the 23rd and 24th century again, but I would be bored if they just stayed ONLY in these periods the next five years. I’m happy we are finally in the 25th century and hope in the next decade we see shows or even films in the 25th century or 26th century but with COMPLETELY new characters, ala TNG when it first came around. And no one related to Khan, Picard or Spock lol. Start completely new.

I think if you ask most fans, that’s what most REALLY want. Not a return to more TOS or TNG, something new beyond all of those and I’m hoping we get it sooner than later.

But unfortunately Star Trek fans really love nostalgia and it’s clear the people making it today loves it as well.

But yes I also agree 24th century shows are not going anywhere. Besides the millions of old fans that are obviously watching them, they are making NEW fans for those characters and era as well. That’s literally the point of Prodigy. And if Matalas gets his way we’re probably have multiple live action shows in the Picard era too just like how we got DS9 and VOY after TNG. And I think McMahan will probably make another show after Lower Decks is done or spin off that show with a character (maybe a Captain Tendi show????).

And both of those are hardcore 24th century fans obviously. That’s why they were hired in the first place, to expand this period. Why would you bother at all if the point isn’t to keep expanding it?

So new 24th century shows will be around for years if not decades to come just like they will keep making 23rd century shows. Again, it’s amazing how myopic fans can be. The point is to build a franchise out for everyone, to keep all the bases and demographics watching, not limit it to certain fans or age groups. That’s what they are doing, ie,.expanding the circle, not decreasing it. It’s not the 60s, 80s or 90s anymore. It’s not an either/or situation. Hasn’t been in decades.

And it’s waaaay too much mythology in this period you can keep building on and why so many love this era, me included.

I fully agree bro! 👍

I am a 24th century fan but I actually want them to start in a new era too, past everything we know. I was hoping that’s what I was hoping they did with Discovery. Well we got it, it was just two seasons too late. 🙄

I was never a big TOS fans for several reasons. One the show is just too outdated for me to watch like the others, but that’s not the main reason. They main reason is I fell in love with Star Trek not just because of the characters, technology or era but really because of the aliens.

The Borg is what I first fell in love with. Hands down what pulled me into the show. And then later the Cardassians, Bajorans, Dominion, Romulans, Trills etc.

Most of those came out of the 24th century. But then I fell in love with the Andorians, Vulcans and Xindi thanks to Enterprise. I liked the Vulcans before but they had no real backstory until Enterprise with the Andorians.

But that’s why I fell in love with Trek, all the interesting aliens and their storylines on the shows. I want to see them all evolve. But that’s what the 23rd century is missing, no fascinating aliens for me. I was never a big fan of Klingons. They have Romulans but you can’t show them before TOS.

I know TOS was just a different time and it was more alien of the week stuff. But I love how deep we got to see other new ones explored in TNG and DS9. If they can bring the Borg or Cardassians into 23rd century stories then it would interest me more, but they can’t.

SNW is fun and I am liking the Gorn, but it’s not the same thing like the Cardassians or Dominion because those are very developed and layered. They aren’t just boring supervillains like JJ verse, we get different sides of them. That’s why DS9 is so great.

That’s why I’m enjoying Prodigy so much, a freaking kids show but we got stuff like the Borg and Xindi in the first season and get to travel back to the Delta quadrant and check out some of those species again. I squealed when the Breen showed up on Lower Decks. It was fun to see the Romulans and Borg back on Picard. We haven’t seen most of these guys since Voyager ended.

That’s what fans like me want and why it’s great we have so many different shows now, they can show case all the fun and interesting aliens Star Trek has created for so long. I was hoping with Discovery in the 32nd century we see more of them in a different light. Maybe we will next season. I do love the Cardassian/Bajoran Federation President.

I don’t give two craps what is more ‘iconic’, old nerds can fight about that at a convention on a panel between themselves; I never been to one. I only care about geeking out to the cool and interesting aliens that brought me into the show in the first place. Hopefully they will keep creating more interesting ones in other eras.

Yes definitely agree about the aliens too. That is probably the biggest thing that came out of the Berman era of Star Trek; how expanded the aliens became, especially in DS9 and VOY.

And to be honest, that’s been one of the disappointments with the modern shows; you can count one hand of the new species so far (OK, maybe 2?) even though there has been ten seasons of shows . But again, there is just so much focus on past aliens because that’s what drives nostalgia instead of creating more interesting and new ones. Kelpians has really been the only stand out new alien IMO. I guess Synths is considered a new species even if they are human androids.

The irony about the 32nd century was I thought we were going to see ONLY new aliens. I thought they were going to avoid showing too many old ones and we now have tons of those lol. Not complaining, I’m happy to see them all but you would think being 800 years in the future, there would be so many new species and dynamics to explore. I did really like Species 10-C. They were original, but you probably can’t use them like you can the Andorians or Trill. ;)

As for the 23rd century aliens, there are interesting ones for sure, but as you said because TOS was so much more episodic back then, they just never really covered them outside of the Vulcans, Romulans and Klingons. You’ll literally get a few lines about the Tellarites or Organians and that would be it lol. And a lot of them weren’t really explored in the 24th century shows. Enterprise actually was the one to really use them again. I assume we’ll get more with SNW too.

But most of the interesting aliens are in the classic 24th century shows because we had 21 seasons to explore and create so many new ones. Maybe we will get to 21 more seasons again in modern Trek of the 24th century and get even more. ;)

So let’s see, one of us actually saw with his own eyes, a convention hall flooded with Discovery fans (again twice as many as William Shatner’s session that same day) many of whom were much younger and more female and were obviously new recruits to Star Trek fandom, and the other one of us is essentially saying, hey, trust me I have rotten tomato ratings, plus I’m going to make some ageism insults and maybe that will cover up my lack of real information .

You remind of John Candy’s character in that funny scene where he is trying to barter for a hotel room in trains planes an automobiles: “Casio?”. lol

A couple of years back I went to this event with thousands of people in attendance to hear this guy speak! It was packed bro! This guy was super popular and being there it proved how much he was loved by the entire country. People were wearing hats and shirts too just to show how much he is loved!

At the end of his speech he told us he wanted to make America great again and everyone went crazy! After that speech they went down to the capital to break inside to overturn the government so that the guy can stay in power after that. That’s how popular he is. 😱🙄

Of course I never been to a Trump rally and would slit my wrist before I’m forced to go but I think you get my point now! 🤣🤣🤣

It’s an ridiculous and asinine example that proves because you went to a STAR TREK CONVENTION of like minded fans proves the fan base overall really loves the show lol. That’s about as logical as saying because a lot of people love Trump and worship the ground he walk on proves Americans overall love the guy and he became President (as bizarre as that was lol). So he was popular enough obviously. And yet easily hated by most of the country. Figure that out???

Just say you like the show man. That’s great. No one gets on your case about that right? Of course there are people out there love it. No one is saying everyone hates it. Even I really like it at times. But trying to convince people most fans secretly love it is beyond comical at this point. 😂

And bro someone called you out on this on another thread before when you cited how much people were supposedly liking Discovery and hated Lower Decks from a poll. But now you question the numbers since Discovery has gone into the dog house in those same polls. 🤣 Yeah I read that exchange. It was hysterical.

No offense but it already shows your lack of credibility. But it’s not a big deal man, it’s just TV shows, none of it matters. But the whole thing is funny though.

And hey, I only cited the age thing because you mentioned it first right!? You went on about how TNG fans are getting old and grey and that was somehow proof that part of fandom was going to die off soon or something even though it still getting new and younger fans but then somehow convince yourself TOS is something teenagers are big fans of lol. And this being said by a guy who is probably over 65 years old. 😄

Bro no offense but your remarks give your age away. You come off like an older guy trying to convince everyone the stuff you like is really cool and popular. But then insulted when you are called out when you try to low key insult other fans as being old themselves and the young kids don’t really like their stuff… but definitely like your stuff. If you didn’t mention it first (and as a point that they should move on from TNG stuff because you’re suggesting it will be irrelevant in a few years time) then I wouldn’t either. You get my point, yeah? 👍

If you don’t want people to cite your age maybe don’t try to insult other fans saying they are part of an aging fan base, especially when the kick is you are part of a much older one. 😂

Maybe just accept people can love and hate things equally, especially with something like Star Trek. It’s all just opinions.

“A couple of years back I went to this event with thousands of people in attendance to hear this guy speak! It was packed bro!”

You know what’s freaking hilarious here is that you don’t understand that by putting this example in here you just proved my point completely. Trump has a huge huge following, sells tons of merchandise and got millions of votes, so his brand name is extremely successful. Yet what is his quality rating as measured by polls? Well, I think anyone would argue that’s between 32 and 47% based on the polls over time, so let’s say a political rating equivalent to an an RT rating of 40%. That’s exactly my point! You can have extreme popularity and large numbers and have a poor quality/acceptance rating. Like, duh, I’m amazed that I really had to spell this out to someone? Seriously dude, come on now, you really don’t get the difference between the size of a market and the quality ratings of that market? Really? Lol, that’s hilarious.

Lol that was my point bro! 🤣🤣

I’m not saying everyone hates the show man. Not sure how many times I can say this. I’m only saying it’s not popular with the base as a whole the way other shows are

I said I know people like it. Bro you will find EVERYONE in a fan base will like something lol. This is not breaking news. You will find lots of fans who love Enterprise, Nemesis, The Motion Picture, Picard, The Final Frontier and on and on. You cite watching fans excited about a show at a convention is just bizarre. Have you ever been to one where the cast was booed? Every show and movie has fans excited about something. I never been to one but I seen them on YouTube. Fans go nuts for every show. The Enterprise cast are treated like royalty and this was when the show was running. Every single one of these shows has devoted fans, especially in Star Trek. No one is denying that.

But you’re trying to equate that Discovery is generally popular and tried to equate it with SNW which is really popular. Anyone with eyes and ears knows that’s just not reality like suggesting Trump is generally loved everywhere in the country.

More people love Enterprise than they did 20 years ago and I’m one of them. But I’m not going to pretend it’s as popular as TOS and TNG either.

In a lot of the fan base Enterprise like Discovery is still divisive with a large portion. Of course people like it, but you’re trying to negate the large amount of people who hate it because you like it too

And bro you already prove this is how you operate when you do the opposite with Lower Decks and cite how many people hated it but then try to negate all the people who likes it.

LDS is a decisive show as well, just not as bad as Discovery thankfully. 😂

Well, I’m glad that do you understand that Discovery is growing that fan base into new markets that aren’t the core historical Star Trek fan cliques market – but that sure wasn’t evident from your previous posts here in this thread. I can’t read your mind, but thank you for agreeing with that point that I was trying to get across – and perhaps I wasn’t explaining myself that well either, and you can’t read my mind .. lol

I guess I’m showing my bias but I don’t think Lower Decks is divisive. Sure there are people who don’t like it, but divisive seem to imply there is just as many people who passionately hate something as they like something, like your Trump analogy. Maybe in the first season it was, but that has changed from second season on. I notice when people site the ‘good’ current shows, it usually is SNW, PRO and LDS. Again NOT EVERYONE, I’m only talking in general.

As for Discovery I think the best way to say is it’s complicated lol. But yea it’s divisive. Look at the most recent article about it. The EXACT same arguments people have against the show in the first season are still there in the fourth season. As said plenty of people like the show. It wouldn’t be in season 5 now if everyone hated it lol. But it’s a show with immense growing pains IMO.

Even for me, I have been VERY up and down on this show like I have never been with any shows before. I remember just feeling disgusted with the ending of the first season. I KNOW many people liked it too but it really put me off in a way no show ever did before. BUT then season 2 came and I absolutely loved it! I will even say it’s probably my third favorite second season after TOS and LDS. That’s how much I liked it.

The fact is there are very few shows who second seasons wasn’t great and downright awful like TNG (but I even like that season more today). But by the time we got to the end of that season, I was disappointed again. Not at the level of season 1 but I think so many of us had all these crazy and more Trek-y theories and that was the problem, it just didn’t live up to expectations, but overall I still say season 2 was the best. And yes a lot of people say it’s because of Pike but I give it more credit, the show had better energy, more focused on science and exploration and less dark. If they kept the show where it was in season 2 I probably would’ve loved it by now. But I blame the current show runner but I will digress on that here.

But it’s a very complicated relationship with this show than I had with the others, even when I didn’t love them either like Enterprise. The difference being once I liked Enterprise I never stopped liking it. In fact every season only got stronger for me. I can say that about every show minus TOS and because third season REALLY sucked lol.

But I also highlight as I did back in season 1 that Discovery is not treated any differently than the other shows. I’m old enough to remember when people were just as divided on TNG. DS9, VOY and ENT lol. Today they ALL have seem accepted overall but there is still plenty of people who don’t like some of these shows. TNG and DS9 seems to be the most liked while VOY and ENT are more in the middle which bares out in every poll out there. But none of them are perceived as bad anymore. Twenty years ago that was a different story. Again even DS9 was hated by a huge part of the base back then.

But in time I think more people will come around to Discovery. People DO like the show, the problem is a lot of people hate it now too. But nostalgia factor alone almost dictates it will be more loved in time. Again ALL the classic shows have become more popular due to nostalgia alone. People start to see the positives over the negatives time something goes on unless a show is EXTREMELY awful and the beauty of Star Trek is every show is decent. It’s just when compared to the OTHER shows is where things take a slide IMO.

Oh one final point man. I love Lower Decks! It’s one of the best things about NuTrek and my favorite show in it. But I’m not spending my time trying to convince people everyone loves it because that’s not true either. I know a lot of people still don’t like it including my own girlfriend lol. She can’t stand it. But she loves Neelix and Peck over Nimoy’s Spock so all her opinions are irrelevant. 🙄

My point is I’m not insecure over who likes or hate a TV show. I became a Star Trek fan through Voyager at a time sooo many people hated that show back in the day, including the guy who got me into Star Trek in the first place. 😂 We used to argue about it every week (in good fun of course). It was no different than what Discovery is now.

But I’m not going around telling people I been to a convention where a lot of Lower Decks fans showed up bowing to Mike McMahon so that proves just how popular it is. That just sounds a bit insecure to me. I can still recognize a part of the base just doesn’t like it and probably never will. That’s alright bro, I focus on the people who do like it and we have a good time discussing it on multiple boards. And the ones who don’t, still fun to talk about their issues with the show. That’s cool. They don’t have to like it at all. I’m not upset with them because they don’t like it. It’s a TV show, I don’t care. I don’t need validation because others do or don’t.

I just enjoy the show. That’s all that matters, what I think of something since I’m the one watching it. 😉

I think you are too caught up with how others feel about something instead of focusing how much you care about it.

Just parting some advice dude.

“I think you are too caught up with how others feel about something instead of focusing how much you care about it.”

Well I would also point out the reverse is true. You are too caught up in obsessing over the quality of the show to realize how it’s substantially growing the market. Again, you have some basic misunderstanding of quantity versus quality, and you also define quality in terms of only what existing fans might think of a new series, not new fans, many of whom in this case are from younger and more female demographic markets for Star Trek.

Also a word of advice for you. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen a post from you on the site that like totally is derogatory to discovery – with little one sentence throw away quips that totally denigrate in the show. When I see those I want to say to you stop being such a dick giving there are discovery fans here and that your posts aren’t offering any real information, but I choose to ignore it and move on. Maybe I am old, but dude you come across as immature in regards to your dislike of what don’t like, and I would like to suggest that you should try to not be such an a-ss about the shows you don’t like here because there are fans of all the shows participating, and those middle-school level one sentence insults that denigrate one show is of course going to get people to react in negative way from time to time. And yeah, I realize I’ve done that once in awhile for lower decks and I can do better as well.

Lol you’re the Science Oracle guy aren’t you? 🤣🤣

Bro something about these posts had a familiar ring to them. And the last paragraph gave it away because that’s what that guy constantly berated me over time and time again before I put them on ignore. And then all his weird sock puppets like BorgKlingon, Strange New Worlds, DC Forever and several more. I know you’re going to deny it but when you are berated about this for over two years because people can’t accept other opinions then it flashes back like PTSD. 🙄

I can’t put you on ignore here and I don’t post here a lot anyway. But I don’t want to stroll down memory lane. All I can do is respectfully ask you we just avoid each other here. Cool? I’ll give you the last word, go through your denials how you have no idea what I’m talking about and will just hopefully go on our way after wards.

You’re not bad guy bro and I used to love talking to you in fact but you were just too toxic for me and constantly trying to censor me to the point it felt stalkerish and creepy. And I know you weren’t TRYING to be but that’s how I felt. You certainly have the right to defend yourself so please do. And I know you have a lot of choice words for me too. That’s why ignore buttons are there. 😉

But after this I don’t want to have anything to do with you or anymore or your sock puppets. And for the record I know you’re trying to turn over a new leaf here but sorry just too many issues from the old days I guess. Please respect my wishes on this.

Take it easy. 🖖

You know, my friend, you might be surprised to know that the feeling is mutual — in fact, this entire back and forth we had here was due to you responding to me, insulting me, and not chilling out and letting a rather simple difference of opinion just exist between fans. My comments were in response to dennycranium’s post (go check above, you butted in) — and no, dennycranium is not a sockpuppert, and I don’t have any sockpuppets here. So you interjected yourself with me in this thread — I frankly didn’t want to go down this rabbit hole with you.

No offense, and I’m sure you are a decent dude to have a shot with at a convention, but (note: I am not trying to be insulting towards you here, but I would like to clear the air with my perspective as you did, OK?) the never ending spin zone thing you do here where instead of actually answering a question or making your point with a few simple sentences, it’s one freaking 1000+ word essay after another — and even then you still don’t answer the question (lol) — and not only that, you never will admit that even slightly you might be wrong on anything when you are challenged by someone…lol, I mean, who does that? Do you think I enjoy that? I mean, when I’m practically nearly begging to God for a Cliffs Notes version of one of your responses where you are both misconstruing what I said and also spinning things in a different direction that suits your own desire “to win the point,” do you really think I enjoy that and want to waste my time in the future doing that? Hopefully you can see some deprecating humor in this and not take this feedback too negatively. :-)) OK, I cleared the air from my end.

So I gladly and wonderfully 100% agree with your proposal that we ignore each other. Please also don’t reference me or my views with others (If you do, I reserved the right to respond), and I will do likewise.

I wish you well though. We are not meant to converse here — it’s not working for either of us. LLAP, IDIC.

Moving on….

Actually I will say one last thing and say I wasn’t trying to insult you about your age or trying to paint you as a villain. I apologize if you felt I was trying to call you old. I was just trying to make a point but I am sincerely sorry if you took offense.

As for my thoughts on Discovery. I understand but since you were the only person bothered you have to accept it or PUT PEOPLE ON IGNORE! That’s why it was there, right?

But I don’t want to take people enjoyment out of a show. But people are allowed to have their opinions even if it’s abrasive. This place does it all the time lol. So I don’t get the difference? And man you are NEVER shy telling people about shows you don’t like lol. That’s how it works. But if you are offended you have the right to block them and simply instead of trying to control their opinions. Unless you own the site those are your only two options.

You’re a really smart and passionate guy. Your points are always interesting. When we could talk it was great. I don’t want you to think I hate you or anything and I hope you don’t hate me.

Just wanted to clear that up and say maybe offline we could be the best of friends but passion online can get in the way. No hard feelings. Take it easy again.

OK, now I feel bad with my clearing the air above because I just noticed after I read that your apology post here.

I’m sorry as well for obviously getting carried away here and I am sure you felt insulted too, so I sincerely apologize. And I accept your agreement that we avoid each other here moving forwards.

On the same page!

I became a fan during Voyager and all my friends who were Trek fans became fans due to TNG mostly. TNG is still my favorite show and DS9 is a close second.

I like TOS but I’m a 24th century fan through and through. I was hoping JJ verse and Discovery made me more of a fan but they sucked for me. And ironically a big problem was they don’t feel like TOS and why they moved Discovery. That show should’ve never been there in the first place. And I like it much more in the 32nd century even though the writing is still putrid to me. JJ verse feels closer but just really dumb down nonsense. But SNW is really good and feels like TOS with actual explanation and intelligence… finally.

I’m hoping Picard season 3 is real TNG because I don’t know know what we been watching on Picard for two seasons. 🙄

But I’m loving Prodigy and Lower Decks. Those guys understand Star Trek so well. I’m hoping McMahan makes another show in the future and I was convinced I was going to hate that show like I was convinced I was going to love Picard. 😂

But for me Star Trek is TNG, DS9 and VOY. I’ve watched those more times I can count and always will. I’m happy to add Prodigy and Lower Decks to the list. And I’m crossing my fingers Picard gives us real TNG next season.

And hoping the show after it will be much better. Just give me more (good) 24th/25th century shows and I’ll be happy! 🖖

If Kirk were to appear, It will be interesting how they not only bring Kirk back from the dead, but also how they are going to De-age William Shatner. Let’s face it, he looks NOTHING like he did in 1994 the last time he played Kirk.

I think if people want to see him as Kirk again, his best chances are on LDS or Prodigy for the reasons you stated. In LDS, we really could’ve ran into Kirk in Idaho instead of Sulu and it would’ve worked perfectly lol.

But it’s just much more difficult putting him in a show or movie today. But hey if they figured out how to do it on Picard, I’m game! ;D

If they were to bring in Shatner to do voice and motion capture (Shatner has talked about being taped for days just so his grandchildren can meet him later in life) — one could have a flashback to an earlier time period using scans from TOS itself.

Mark Hammil just posted an image of himself on the set of Mandelorian to prove he was on the set, but then they stuck his head on from 1982 Empire Strikes Back or ROTJ.

Really, JJ. You killed Luke and blew up Vulcan. BUT WHAT DID YOU GIVE US?

Well to be fair, Abrams didn’t kill off Luke, Ryan Johnson did. It sounds like that was solely his idea.

But that is a good point about Shatner and deaging technology like Hamil and the Mandalorian. They actually made an entire documentary about that episode on Disney+ and the technology to make it happen on the character’s return. It’s really good if you want to check it out. So if they ever bring Shatner back before he literally hits 100 years old they do have the technology to do it in a future show or film. Whether they will is the bigger question.

And I just read a piece on io9, that Indiana Jones 5 begins with a de-aged Harrison Ford, which takes place in the same ww2 era as Raiders. Apparently even Ford was impressed.

Wow nice, that sounds great! Yeah anything is more possible these days. I also completely forgot they de-age Samuel L. Jackson throughout the entire movie in Captain Marvel. You literally forget he’s really 30 years older watching it.

It would be great to see Shatner again. I think if Paramount really wanted to it would have happened already. I am surprised they didn’t get this done awhile ago. Clearly there is a love for the Legacy characters. So what gives Paramount?? Why not? Kurtzman not interested?

Maybe they have approached Shatner but he said no. Shatner has said in the past that he wouldn’t want to return only for a cameo.
For example, the Takei cameo in Lower Decks could be something that they first offered to Shatner and then rewrote for Takei.

It’s one thing to bring back Shatner for a small role and fit him into a story. It’s a whole other thing to build a story around him where he’s the star. Also, if you look at it from a nostalgia angle, Shatner’s Kirk cannot return with his original crew because most of the actors are unfortunately either dead or not on speaking terms with him.
They already tried bringing back Picard without his crew. Many fans seemed to have trouble connecting to the new characters, and the most popular parts of the show were those that brought back TNG characters. Now season 3 seems to be a full-on TNG reunion.
That’s not possible for Kirk, unless they don’t just de-age, but actually recreate Spock, Bones and Co as fully digital characters.

Wow. Crimson Tide between Riker and Picard huh? So, Riker and Picard go at it, Geordi doesn’t seem happy with Picard. Beverly hasn’t seemed happy with Picard since season 1. Somehow I get the feeling this isn’t going to be much of a happy reunion. That’s kind of the difference between Riker/Picard and Spock/Kirk. Riker/Picard will never be the brothers Spock/Kirk were. Sure the latter fought at times, most notably ST V and VI. But you could always feel the emotion there, even with Spock.

I’m guessing Picard takes some drastic action that utterly pisses Riker off. Yes, we all last saw the Riker-Troi family in Season 1 of Picard, but perhaps Picard calls Deanna out of retirement to help search for Beverly?

Not sure what you meant stating Beverly hasn’t seemed happy with Picard since Season 1(I assume you mean Season 1 of TNG?). When she returns in S3 of TNG, obviously the writers purposely tamped down the flirtation from S1, but the two characters enjoyed a solid friendship for the rest of the series and the films. Obviously there was a break of some sort that happened post-Nemesis, as Stewart and McFadden have said the characters drifted apart, but we the audience have not seen that. It was also noted there were other characters who have not stayed in touch. So I assume Picard does not have the best relationship with Geordi (probably something to do with Data, maybe B4, or the synth attack on Mars?) or Worf. We know Picard spearheaded the mission to relocate as many Romulans as possible before the Romulan sun went supernova, so I’m guessing the relationship between the Federation and the Klingon Empire suffered as a result.

Interesting comparison between Picard/Riker and Kirk/Spock. Not sure I totally get where you are going with it. To me it always seemed the Picard/Riker relationship was purposely written to be different than Kirk/Spock, it didn’t make Picard and Riker any less close though. Can you elaborate on what you mean? Maybe I’m just reading your comment wrong.

Hey iMike!!! What I meant was Picard Season 1 when Picard tried to contact Beverly via his combadge and he was kinda like, “Beverly, don’t hang up…” lol. I don’t remember the exact lines but it eluded to the idea they hadn’t talked in a long time and a rift had grown between them.

The last time I really remember Riker being aghast with Picard was Nemesis when Troi was practically raped by Shinzon and she wanted to be relieved of duty but Picard denied her request. But nothing in Picard so far. So yeah, obv something has to happen in the opening in PIC S3. But nothing we have seen in the trailer cause all we saw was Picard saying I can’t ask you to help and Riker jokingly saying since when lol.

The only animosity I saw among the crew in the trailer itself was from Geordi when he was like, you dragged them into this too? Maybe like you said it was because of Data? Maybe Geordi knows that Picard disconnected what was left of Data in season 1? Or like you said somehow blames him for B4 being shelved after Nemesis? I can’t imagine Picard being blamed for the Mars attack tho as that attack and the ensuing withdrawal from Romulus is exactly why Picard left Starfleet.

As for Worf, I have no clue what’s going on LOL. I’d like to think that after what happened to Jadzia after the Dominion war and everything that maybe even Worf, the Klingon of all Klingons had seen enough and he wanted peace in his heart. I hope Jadzia gets a name drop. I really do. I even hope Terry Farrell gets a cameo as kinda a crystal portrait message of sorts like Tasha did for Data in TNG.

I do think you are absolutely 100% 100000000 percent correct that the Riker/Picard relationship v Spock/Kirk relationships were written to be different. Like night and day. Spock was written to be the logical 1/2 to Kirk. Ricker was written to be the “Kirk” of Picard’s Enterprise which is why he was always going on the away missions instead of Picard. Picard was the logical wise diplomat thinking one. Riker was the handsome brash phaser wielding guy. See where I am going? :)

But my point is, over time, Kirk and Spock grew closer and closer. Picard and Riker grew apart. It’s not just the two of them in either crews, it’s the crews over all. With the exception of Sulu, the TOS crew was together from beginning to end. The TNG crew all grew and moved on. I suppose the TNG crew’s experiences were more realistic. But the TOS’ experiences were the one that tugs more at the heart strings. Which is what I suppose my point is. If you are going to make this their final outing, they have to find their hearts for each other again and stop fighting. and come together in a real way just like TOS did in ST VI.

The TNG crew stuck together through Nemesis. But now it’s been 20 AFTER that lol,so it would feel pretty unrealistic they are all hanging on the same ship or all in each other’s lives as before. Kirk and Spock are closer but they are also closer in age and joined Starfleet at around the same time. Most of the beta canon had them joining Starfleet the same year.

But with Picard and Riker, Picard is suppose to be at least 30 years older than Riker when they first worked together. Picard wasn’t like a father figure to him or anything but they were on completely different levels in their life and career experience. But of course as Riker got older and just closer to Picard we see it being more of a friendship. The way they were together in Nepenthe made them look and act closer in age. But they are both very different people now too, especially Picard lol.

The biggest irony is the TNG cast themselves are probably the strongest in terms of their friendships and I think it was at CCSD this year Gates McFadden said they all meet several times a year every single year since TNG went off the air. I think that’s why their chemistry never left onscreen either.

Yes. I guess the difference is the Enterprise wasn’t Picard’s real first command the way it was for Kirk. Kirk was with Spock from day 1 but then again Spock was with Pike before he was with Kirk.

I totally agree the TNG cast IRL probably has the strongest bonds while also ironically the TOS cast probably has the weakest (Looking at you Shatner and Takei).

Whatever happens in season 3, I hope everyone’s relationship minus Data ends on a high note. I just get this feeling that throughout the Picard series the Picard character has seemed to have lost so much of the respect he once commanded.

Frakes is awesome! 😎

I’m happy to hear he’s in the entire season too. I’m hoping next season gives us TNG season 8. I’m still worried we’re getting Nemesis 2 based on the trailer but people are saying it’s not that either.

I’m hoping the next show will be something closer to classic Star Trek again like Prodigy and SNW. And hope they put either Riker, Seven, Dax, Janeway, Bashir, Worf, the Doctor, Beverly or Kira on it. Not all of them just 1 or 2 and I’ll be happy! 🖖

Mr. Frakes is the best choice to direct the next ST feature film, if, whatever, or whenever that may be or happen, my opinion based primarily on the high quality and intense energy of ST: FC. Not to mention, he has always seemed to be a good and thoughtful man in real life.

So they mean after “Picard” (season 3) there could be a true TNG reboot after all? THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!!!!