[Review starts at 5:35]
Tony and Laurie give an update on the removal of Star Trek: Prodigy from Paramount+ including talk about efforts to save the show and the fan petition. They also talk about their hopes it will find a new home and where you can buy the show while we wait for more news. For merchandise news, they discuss the new Halloween-themed comic miniseries coming from IDW.
After the quick news update, the focus of the podcast is their review of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds‘ “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow,” diving deep into what it means for La’an’s character, who this version of James Kirk is, and where the show tries to both explain and tweak canon. They also talk about how the new episode celebrates Canadian culture and specifically the city of Toronto, where new Star Trek shows are filmed.
Finally, we wrap up with a book co-written by Laurie that comes out next month and a T-shirt design inspired by their All Access Star Trek interview with Prodigy co-EP Aaron Waltke.
Links:
‘Star Trek: Prodigy’ Has Been Canceled By Paramount+, Seasons 1 & 2 Being Shopped To Other Networks
Emergency Podcast: All Access And The Shuttle Pod React To ‘Star Trek: Prodigy’ Cancellation
‘Star Trek: Prodigy’ Removed From Paramount+ As Fans Rally To Save The Show
Save Star Trek: Prodigy petition (change.org)
IDW Sets October For Spooky With ‘Star Trek: Holo-Ween’ Mini-Series
The Eugenics Wars: The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh novel series by Greg Cox (Wiki)
Kirk learning to drive a car in “A Piece of the Action”
The Lakeview Diner in Toronto (Instagram)
Guide to poutine in Canada (Lonely Planet)
Olivia Chow (Toronto’s new mayor) talks Trek and leadership back in 2015 (Toronto Star)
Bits:
Tony: The Way of the Househusband: The Gangster’s Guide to Housekeeping
Laurie: Aaron Waltke in his All Access-inspired T-shirt, the quote that inspired it, and a link to buy
Let us know what you think of the episode in the comments, and should you be so inclined, please review us on Apple.
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Thank you for the podcast. If we’re talking about the episode being long and scenes to cut, I would have cut the La’an-Kirk kiss. I fast forwarded through it. And as far as celebrating Canada, well this is just in time for Canada Day!
I liked that scene! I think it was important to both the story and La’an’s character. Maybe they could’ve just cut down the car chase, the punching, and the scene where Kirk almost gets arrested. And the timing is indeed perfect.
Yah, I’m feeling a little curmudgeony. Must be the bad air quality here in Montreal. And being French Canadian I don’t care for poutine myself. I do agree that the kiss played a role in the story, and Christina Chong was incredible in this episode… Those were real tears at the end.
My wife, not a big Trek fan, loved the romance/kiss part of this ep.
Happy Canada Day everyone! July 1st. Go Leafs, Jays and Raptors!
Happy Canada Day!
… forgot the Argonauts!
…and Jason
Thanks for the thought-provoking conversation (as usual)! A couple of quick thoughts:
La’an’s “Kirk and Edith Keeler” decision: Wasn’t it different because had La’an killed kid Khan, one of her ancestors (though not yet detailed in what way), wouldn’t she have ceased to exist? There would have been no Khan-free future for her because she would never have been born. La’an had a very existential reason not to kill him. (I guess the same could hold true for Kirk, but much less directly or clearly.)
When you talked about the Prime timeline, you touched on something I’ve been thinking about. I’ve been wondering if all the endless and tedious debates about canon on the website arises precisely because TOS established the conceit that its stories about the future were “true.” This is the way the human future could and will be if people make the right choices henceforth. Fans want the hopeful Federation “utopia” to come to pass. Write anything that calls that future into question or suggests it is not as utopian as we want it to be triggers inordinate controversy and debate.
(On the other hand, there are just as fierce debates over Tolkien canon about “Rings of Power,” so maybe that’s not the case. I dunno.)
Thanks again!
Sera the Romulan photographer explained that because La’an had the time travel device, she would be unaffected by changes to the timeline, which La’an had already figured out when she turned up on Kirk’s Enterprise. So she would’ve been fine!
Hmmm, even in the new timeline in which her ancestor would not have lived? Her DNA, if she existed at all, would be different and so she’d be an entirely different individual, not to mention her psyche would be very different from not having to have lived down the Noonien-Singh name. The magic box couldn’t possibly compensate for that. But, as Janeway said, time travel paradoxes are headache inducing.
She would still come from the original timeline. In the new timeline, she would have essentially appeared out of nowhere, and nobody but her would know where she really came from.
Which is exactly what happened on the Enterprise… there was no record of her, which makes sense if Khan grew up in Toronto (?) and was killed as a child when it was destroyed.
Maybe since the timeline keeps changing, Khan originally grew up in Mexico and sounded like Montalbahn. Then the timeline changed and he grew up in the UK and sounded like Cumberbatch (and also he was white?). Now the timeline’s changed again, and when he grows up to seek revenge on Kirk he’ll have a Canadian accent.
And he’ll apologize a lot. (I can say these things because I am Canadian and I apologize a lot!)
From hell’s heart I stab at thee. For hate’s sake…sorry.
Great Podcast as always love Laurie and Tony’s incite and thoughts. I have a question when La’an contacts Kirk when she gets back Kirk is wearing the Delta of the USS Enterprise. Should he not be wearing the insignia of the USS Farragut? Also have to get and read Laurie’s new book out.
It was never exactly determined in canon that the uniform insignia referred to the ship the officer serves on… I think.
Yeah, it’s always been a little messy.
The “Archeology Department” is just a few blocks east of where we live, in Mississauga Ontario – not Vermont. We watched the crew and vehicles the day they filmed there. It is an antique store and every bit as weird and wonderful as depicted in this episode – which I LOVED by the way. As I do the entire series to date. Reading below, my feeling is the kiss was an essential turning point for her character developement. These Trek characters are written as real people in a way that none (except maybe DS9) have been. They’re real and relatable. superb casting and direction. The future “utopia people” never felt believable to me. This is all so much better.
See this is a part of Trek where a little more imagination from people are necessary. I mean I don’t watch Trek for its realism or relatability so much as the hope (perhaps misguided) that maybe in the future as humans we can get our ships straight and start doing the right things. I don’t necessarily believe in the idea that humans are messy and will always be messy creatures, no I think with effective guidance (maybe help of aliens like vulcans or something) humans can reach a bigger and better potential. When it comes to Trek I prefer to live in this “utopia” more than any “realistic” version of the future.
I am with you on this one 100%. I loved the idea that we can clean ourselves up (and “get our ships straight,” as you said), and feel that this is one of the guiding principles of Star Trek and what makes it different from other sci-fi. I believe that’s why it has survived so long, captured the imaginations of so many, and continues to thrive.
Well said! I agree–the idea that we can maybe “get our ships together” is what made me fall in love with Star Trek! I like seeing characters trying to figure out the right thing to do. That’s what is relatable to me. Add in some science and some new and interesting aliens and I’m a fan.
I’m with Laurie in that the logic gaps in this episode were very intrusive, but I’d go even further and say they largely spoiled this episode for me. Not to mention the episode slowed down too much which allowed me to think about the creakiness of this whole story and setting. This was also an ugly looking episode, I felt it was undershot (especially the car chase) and the cinematography was uncharacteristically poor. There is just too many problems in this episode for me, easily my least favorite of SNW, but a strong cast ultimately makes it enjoyable to watch.
I feel like whenever Trek does a modern setting episode the shooting style takes a turn for the worse. I saw this in the second season of Picard as well. It is as if a certain monotony takes over the camera movements and shots. It loses a bit of its cinematic qualities.
I tend to agree, but then I look at “Future’s End” from Voyager and I have zero complaints about that one! Same for Star Trek IV. I’m trying to figure out why those felt so fresh but modern attempts to do the same thing don’t have the same zing.
Doesn’t this episode basically confirm that Strange New Worlds, Discovery, and maybe even Picard are a separate timeline as distinct as the Kelvin timeline?
Sarah the Romulan says all of the Eugenics Wars and Khan’s existence was “supposed to happen in 1992” but all the temporal alterations have nudged the events forward. She has been stuck on Earth for 30 years because Khan’s existence is a sort of fixed point in time (to borrow a Doctor Who plot device) that resists being altered.
However, the implication of the episode is that all of the changes in Discovery, Strange New Worlds, and possibly even Picard can be explained by saying this is a branched-off, altered timeline created from the Temporal (Cold) Wars.
I don’t think it would even just be the new shows. Voyager visited the 90s without without encountering the Eugenics War. A DS9 episode described the Eugenics War as taking place in the 22nd century. TNG showed Earth as a dystopia due to WWIII over a decade after First Contact. The idea seems to be that all of these pre-Federation events are moving around the timeline due to the temporal war, but even though 21st century history changes, things stabilize by the time you get to Archer.
Overall I really liked this episode, I´m a sucker for time travel. I especially liked the deeper look into La´An, Christina Chong was so very good. This was very much her episode. I appreciated how a character who is usually the main protagonist (Kirk) be the supporting character.
I would have cut the car chase (yawn) and the Kirk playing chess scene. The one thing I liked about the chess scene is that it shows that Kirk is smart, or as they said in TOS a stack of books with legs. I appreciate them going for that version of him.
By the way, according to the Internet it takes 7 hours to drive from Toronto to Vermont and before that they were checking out a bunch of universities and going to an Apple store where Kirk learned what DuckDuckGo is. For a time travel episode they really don´t have a grasp on time.
That was why I felt they should’ve cut the Pelia scene… not because of her, but because it it’s an 8-hour drive, plus they mentioned taking 4 buses and dealing with border guards (who would no way let them cross without any ID) but didn’t show any of it. They did cover it in dialogue though; Kirk said they had a few days before the explosion that would destroy the city.
It would have been such an easy fix to skip all that and still have the scene with Pelia. Just have her live in a suburb of Toronto!
Agree!
But then no doubt there would be some fans complaining that that was too convenient. ;-)
Pelia is still too distracting for me…I am hoping I will warm up to her. I get that she is a hit with most fans though.
…she’s kind of tough for me to reckon with myself.
Agree on the car chase scene. I wasn’t a fan of Seven’s car chase scene in season 2 of Picard either. Or really any car chase scene in any movie, to be honest. They are just boring to me.
Christina Chong/La’an was amazing! She made this episode for me.
I understand that you have to move the story along, but I thought the night time scene with La’an tossing and turning because she has the hots for Kirk seemed really fast and forced. If they left that scene out I think the emotions would have built and finally boiled over with the kiss more organically.
Agree.Their relationship (and how it affected La’an) ended up working really well for me, but I didn’t need that scene at all.
When Kirk and La’an arrive in 21st Century Canada, how can they tell they aren’t in 24th Century Earth? How is Canada different from their Utopian present where everyone is nice and polite?
There was a huge sign with Toronto on it. Also they probably had a view of the CN tower from where La’an first said they were in TO.
It was a joke…
Ok, I read too fast…
No prob.
When I ‘Googled Toronto mayor Star Trek uniform’ I got this instead:
https://www.dailystartreknews.com/read/torontos-mayor-john-tory-dresses-as-a-star-trek-admiral-for-halloween
Well, it is what I asked for but..
Happy Canada Day. We need more Trek characters that are Canadian.
Especially ones from Vancouver.Tony/Laurie,
This episode was terrific. I loved it. It is a change from the dialogue heavy episode of last week and the disappointment of Ep1.
This is what I loved about it:
Paul Wesley was fantastic. He felt more comfortable being Kirk in this episode than in the S1 finale. He had hints of Shatner, while also putting his own spin on the character. He was fun, energetic, smart, and different. I felt David Reed understood the Kirk character and wrote him well.
This is Christina Chong’s best performance. She had a lot of chemistry with Paul. We got to see a different side to her character and I hope she continues to allow people in. It gives Christina a chance to show range. She is a very talented actress.
I am glad Kirk won the money at chess, maybe too much money for the hotel they got, but I am willing to suspend my disbelief and go with it.
I loved the time agent. I love time travel episodes, especially Relativity and Future’s End.
I don’t need to know more about the Romulan plot to slow progress. That is the job of the UFP in the 29th Century and whoever is battling the Temporal Cold War. And my focus was on La’an’s character development. I view it from their perspective. They don’t fully know what is going on either.
I remember reading that the shadow guy on Enterprise in the Temporal Cold War arc was going to be a Romulan. My head canon says, this is part of that abandoned story arc and fits within my version of events. Yes, a lot of head canon here……..
I am not going to fight over the nineties vs. mid 21st century thing on the Eugenics Wars. No matter what Kirk is going to find his ship, let him loose, maroon him on Ceti Alpha V and battle him later. It makes sense to update it because of the times we live in.
Finally, I love that it is in Toronto and not NY or San Francisco. It is awesome to see other settings besides San Francisco and NY. And Khan is Canadian.
I have no nitpicks this time. Perhaps, the show can return to the premise of exploring new worlds next week.
LLAP!
This episode underscores how much better SNW is than Discovery ever was: the 2nd tier bridge crew are three dimensional in SNW. We know their names and their stories.
And in addition (to my amazement) this version of Kirk has grown on me considerably.
I enjoyed the episode, but it did just get a little too confusing once they got into the Romulan plot. I know Sera was a time traveller, presumably from the Temporal War, but were the other Romulans time travelers or were they contemporary Romulans who were worried that humans would one day be a threat? If both sets of Romulans were time travelers, then why weren’t they working together? Was the Noonien-Singh company run by Augments or geneticists. If it was run by geneticists, then why did the doors open for La’an? And why did the temporal agent think it was a good idea to recruit somebody who was capable of opening the door for Sera? Despite all of these questions, I did enjoy the episode. It was great to see La’an finally have a major role that didn’t involve being sad about the Gorn, and her journey with Kirk was great. I just wish that they had either simplified the plot, or spent more time explaining things.
I guess I’m fine with them moving Khan to the 21st century, but I don’t think it was necessary. Star Trek isn’t the real future. The Eugenics War still won’t happen in the 2030s or 40s or whenever, WWIII still won’t happen after that, and the Vulcans aren’t going to land in 2063. I was always fine believing that the 90s happened differently in Star Trek than in reality. I guess it does make TOS Spock’s description of the Eugenics War as the third World War make a little more sense now. Maybe at one point WWIII was in the 90s before things started moving around. It also makes Future’s End make a lot more sense.
I’ve had to make a deal with myself to enjoy this season. The writers have a hard time with making a tight script that wraps up everything. The last 2 episodes had problems too with making sense of a story. They don’t balance the story, character development, canon, and allegory well. This one was heavy on character while light on the logic of the story. One always outweighs the other and you get a wonky episode. I’ve had to make up stuff using head canon to fill in the blanks. I still love these characters so I’m trying to live with it and hopefully things get better as we approach the halfway point.
I totally get that! I have to work a little harder to enjoy SNW by filling in the blanks, or sometimes even pretending the canon character is just a totally new character. (This is also why I wish they’d just make up their own new planets and people to play with.) But yes, you’re getting at exactly what I mean by “taking me out of the story.”
I was inspired by you from last week’s thread and what you have been saying on the podcast. And yes, I do understand “taking me out of the story.”
I’m calling this an alternate timeline, which I call the Enterprise timeline, since it was inspired by the temporal cold war, so I can free myself from canon and focus on the stories. I can now relax on the canon stuff and enjoy whatever comes, as long it has the DNA of what makes Star Trek unique.
I just have to pretend the Paul Wesley character isn’t Kirk… that’s what helped me enjoy the last episode.
He’s Kirk… just not the one we know. With no Spock (or maybe McCoy as well) in his life, he doesn’t become the Kirk we know from TOS. But, I do find that in this timeline, there was more Kirk swagger than the other timeline Kirk from Season 1.
I never once was taken out of the story – I love shows that make me think all the time instead of handing everything to me on a plate. But that’s just me.
I loved this episode and how they handled things. Stronger performances all around, too. The only thing I would have changed is having Pelia live closer than Vermont. But I get why they did it… Being in Montreal, I go to Vermont all the time antique hunting! Great antique shops there.
Oh… Poutine is now Trek canon!
I don’t find him Kirk-like, not even alternate Kirk-like! But he’s somebody, so I just went with that. As to “handing everything to me on a plate,” maybe you’re misunderstanding. It’s because I am thinking that my brain tells me how expensive hotel rooms are vs. how much you can make playing chess, or that you need a credit card to book a room. So it’s the opposite of what you’re suggesting. That said, I’m glad you loved the episode and my intention isn’t t make it worse for anybody!
No, didn’t make it worse at all! Just giving my 2 cents worth. By the way, you CAN rent a hotel room without a credit card. I had forgotten my credit card once when I was staying at the Casino in Gatineau. I didn’t pre-book… I just showed up. I asked if I can use my debit card… they said only if I had a cash deposit of $600 per night. In my mind, that is what they did… and skipped out on paying the bill like they did with stealing the clothes from Roots. Made sense to me.
Not that it really matters, but you said you had a debit card, which they wouldn’t have had. Whatever, it’s not like I wanted the whole episode to stop down for something like that. I have never ever gotten a hotel room without having to show some ID and a card… even when I was on a work trip and the cost was going to my place of employment, I still had to provide something! But it was a very minor plot point, admittedly.
I was able to pay my bill with a debit card. I had to leave a cash deposit on the room. The room was $300 a night, I had to leave $600 since I was only there for 1 night. I never had to show ID. They took my information that I gave them verbally. I would assume that the deposit would cover the night I was there and any other charges in case I skipped out. But who knows, it could have just been that particular hotel. It is the only time it has happened to me so for me, it made sense from personal experience. But agreed, it was a minor plot point. My only gripe is how they were able to sweet talk the border agents to let them across without ID.
Yes that too! And not just once, but twice! I think La’an said something about bribing them, which was also weird. They could’ve just made location 2 in Canada and avoided that whole problem.
Completely agree with that! They could have gone to Kingston or Cornwall!
Toronto’s new mayor’s not the first or highest ranking Trekkie in Canadian politics. Former Premier Rt. Hon. John Horgan is a huge Voyager fan, has said he has based his leadership style on Captain Janeway and Kate Mulgrew tweeted her congratulations when he was re-elected for his second term. While Toronto is Canada’s biggest city it is not the centre of our country. With Glowing Hearts
P.s. Poutine only enhances fries the secret is in the gravy! congrats on your book celebrate it with Poutine!
Ha! Thanks about the book! (I have another one coming out in November, yay!) But I’ll skip the poutine, I do not like gravy! My husband thinks it’s very weird to not like gravy, but so be it.
Having grown up 2 hrs from Toronto and lived in downtown Queens Quay by the harbourfront before moving to NorCal – I have to admit this was an awesome episode!!
Seeing all the sights and sounds of my hometown on SNW made it especially enjoyable, although even if it was filmed in NYC, the storyline and actors would have still made this a very good episode.