Zachary Quinto Says Creative Differences Delaying ‘Star Trek 4’; He’s Happy Handing Off Spock To Ethan Peck

(Photo: Jon Spencer/

Zachary Quinto was one of the headliners at the 57-Year Mission convention in Las Vegas and the most prominent member of the Kelvin cast to appear on stage. As with all of the other SAG actors at the event, Quinto stuck to the rules of not talking in detail about his work on Star Trek (or other projects), but he did make some comments about the impact the franchise had on him and the potential of returning to the role of Spock for a fourth time. He was also joined on stage by Strange New Worlds star Ethan Peck for a meeting of the Spocks.  

What’s holding back Star Trek 4?

It’s been over seven years since the release of Star Trek Beyond, the third film in the Kelvin timeline movies produced by J.J. Abrams. There have been a number of starts and stops for new Trek projects at Paramount Pictures since then, like a planned 2023 movie getting removed from Paramount’s release calendar last year after delays led to director Matt Shakman exiting the project.

During the Q&A, a fan asked Quinto if he believed the proliferation of streaming Star Trek shows on Paramount+ was the reason Paramount hasn’t moved forward on another Star Trek film since Beyond. Quinto didn’t see it that way, saying:

I don’t think that has anything to do with it. Actually, I think the more there is, the more it gets people excited about what could be.

Zachary Quinto with moderator Scott Mantz at STLV 2023 (Photo: Jon Spencer/

Zachary Quinto with moderator Scott Mantz at STLV 2023 (Photo: Jon Spencer/

Quinto then gave his assessment over the delay and likelihood of another Kelvin movie:

I think there’s a lot of other stuff, creative things. It’s complicated. The fact that anything good gets made is kind of miracle. I think it’s about different people having different agendas and ideas about what it will be. And I don’t know if and when it will happen… And if coalesces again and we come back and we’re able to do it, wonderful. If not, we had a great run.

Since early 2022 when producer J.J. Abrams and Paramount announced the Star Trek 4 project that was to be released this year, members of the cast (including Quinto) have expressed their interest in returning; however, some have also noted the difficulty of aligning the schedules for all the stars. Late last year, Zoe Saldaña also said she felt the delay was more than just scheduling. Last year, Chris Pine expressed concerns that Paramount was shooting for a billion-dollar box office movie, arguing, “I’ve always thought that Star Trek should operate in the zone that is smaller. You know, it’s not a Marvel appeal.”

The last official word from Abrams was back in March when he talked up the project, telling Esquire Magazine he felt the planned fourth movie had “a story that feels as compelling as the first one.” However, Paramount and Abrams have yet to hire a new director or put a Star Trek project back on the release calendar.

Zachary Quinto as Spock in Star Trek Beyond (Paramount Pictures)

Zachary Quinto as Spock in Star Trek Beyond (Paramount Pictures)

The gift of Nimoy’s friendship

During his panel, Zachary Quinto spoke about his relationship with Leonard Nimoy; the pair formed a bond during the filming of the 2009 Star Trek movie and remained close until Nimoy’s passing in 2015. When asked about taking on the iconic role, Quinto pointed to how important Nimoy was for him:

I was so fortunate because of Leonard [Nimoy]’s involvement in the process, and the one thing I never could have anticipated was how instrumental he would become in my life personally. But from a creative standpoint, and from a professional standpoint, having that relationship and that introduction to this world helped me understand the character. I think it also helped audiences accept me as this new version of the character.  And for that I was so eternally grateful. But it was really that friendship that became one of the greatest gifts. I would say THE greatest of playing this role of Spock in the Star Trek universe has been the friendships that have come out of it, my brotherhood with Chris [Pine], and my relationship with Leonard and his family and with the whole cast.

Zachary Quinto and Leonard Nimoy in 2009 Star Trek movie (Paramount Pictures)

Zachary Quinto and Leonard Nimoy in 2009 Star Trek movie (Paramount Pictures)

Handing the mantle of Spock to Peck

During Quinto’s panel, the organizers brought Star Trek: Strange New Worlds star Ethan Peck onto the stage for an unplanned meeting of the Spocks. Although they have spoken before, this was their first time meeting in person. They greeted each other with this exchange:

Quinto: This is great, right? This is the nature of the [Star Trek] universe. It evolves and changes and we all bring our own perspectives and experience to it. Nothing is more exciting than that.

Peck: This is momentous. It is awesome to be with you

After speaking together on stage for a little while, as the panel was coming to a close, Quinto described how he felt about the event and about Ethan Peck, seeing a bit of a parallel in how (like with Nimoy) he is happy to see the role played by a new actor:

I just want to say before we finish up, how grateful I feel to be here and how I feel like my experience in this world, it’s evolved into other iterations and other forums. And to be able to share the stage with the person to whom I am now passing the mantle to in a lot of ways, who is engaging you all in these stories from the perspective of this character now into the future. It’s really exciting. It’s really gratifying. You all are really a truly wonderful fan base. And I feel heartened and just optimistic. There’s a lot of reasons and a lot of ways in which we can feel really discouraged about humanity, but this collection of people in this franchise and what it’s based on is not one of them. And so I feel really happy to be here with you all.

Zachary Quinto and Ethan Peck with moderator Scott Mantz at STLV 2023 (Photo: Jon Spencer/

Zachary Quinto and Ethan Peck with moderator Scott Mantz at STLV 2023 (Photo: Jon Spencer/


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Zachary Quinto has been and continues to be a great ambassador for STAR TREK. I think we can all forgive him for being on that mercifully short-lived series THE SLAP.

Yeah, what an outstanding human being!

Hey Matalas, take notes please.

I actually liked that mini-series and I watched the original Australian version as well. He was good at playing a dick lol.

The ‘creative differences’ are Paramount can’t seem to decide on a script and no one is gonna attach themselves to a project without a script. The fact that there seems to be little enthusiasm for getting the film done isn’t helping.

Paramount would also do well to disabuse itself of the desire to get MCU-type numbers from a Trek film.

“Paramount would also do well to disabuse itself of the desire to get MCU-type numbers from a Trek film”

Sure, but even the MCU itself does no longer get any MCU-type numbers.Apart from Spidey and GotG, the Marvel movies have been rather down-to-earth box office-wise lately. I believe the traditional action franchise blockbuster is finished. I still hope for an exception for space opera flicks (Avatar 2 and GotG 3 numbers support that hope) but I’m not very optimistic.

Trek needs to cut down on budget and aim for something closer to the first original movies. .

I really hope the studios don’t take this summer’s boxoffice as a nonrecurring phenomena — OP and BARB prove that audiences will flock to something that doesn’t have a number in the title, even if it does break precedent and have a brain in its head (the filmmakers in the case of Barbie, if not the character herself — I dunno for sure as I haven’t seen either of these yet.)

It’d be awesome if the studios took a really good look at scripts mired on the Black List for years and started developing really good unmade pieces of writing without focusing on landing some 8-figure star. I’ve been saying that since there were 8-figure stars (was it Jim Carrey who started all that 30 years back, or was it Travolta?), but now is as desperate a time as any.

Pare back VFX enormously and maybe the vendors will be able to deliver at a higher quality level, too.

As someone who enjoyed the Kelvin era movies, a legitimate criticism of Bad Robot was their overuse of VFX. If they made the last three movies in the 120MM range, we’d not be having this conversation today about then the next movie would be made.

They haven’t proved they can budget a movie either. Rise of Skywalker was nearly as expensive as the last Indiana Jones.

That’s not really a fair comparison given post Covid movie production is 35% more expensive in general.

JJ never minced words about not doing Trek on the cheap. He rolled into Paramount selling a VFX extravaganza, and that’s what Paramount bought, with visions of Marvel box office revenue dancing in their corporate heads.
In BR’s defense, their three Star Wars movies made bank, it’s not really a fair comparison.

True but it was always a pipe dream that a Star Trek movie could get anywhere near the kind of money Marvel and Star Wars makes no matter how much money you throw at it and I think they finally realized that.

But you can’t blame them for trying.

For a hot second after Star Trek 2009 it looked like it could actually happen. I mean for a second there it looked like Trek was making about the same money as the first Iron man flick and maybe Trek could grow from there. But then STID! and NOPE!

In terms of domestically, yeah I think they had a real shot of earning at least what a lot of the early MCU films did. But in foreign B.O., that’s where it was never a reality. Of course the entire irony is that these films really only exist because they wanted Star Trek to be a bigger global player but with all the ‘hype’ over the first movie, it still only made $130 million abroad. It basically bombed. MCU movies makes more than that abroad on their opening weekends. That was always the bigger issue.

ID and BEY got a little lucky when they got those movies into IMAX in China and made a little more money and became the second biggest market outside of America. But even that was pretty small when compared to bigger American movies that played in that country. Beyond made around $65 million and was the top Kelvin film. Now take Fast and Furious which made $370 million in China with the 7th movie. I think that is still the biggest movie in China today. But Fast X made less than half with only $140 million and every movie had made less than the last one. That’s another reason these movies are doing more poorly this summer, China is not picking up the slack like it was just 4 or 5 years ago. They are turning away from Hollywood movies, at leas legally. ;)

Same for the Marvel movies, China is what help to make them so massive as well. I have to check the numbers but I don’t think ANY of the Marvel films made more than $200 million in China this year or last. But I’m sure someone will correct me.

So with China being so flaky these days, there is no guarantee a Trek movie would even get approved there and I doubt a movie would make more than half of what ID and BEY did. And without China, ID would’ve just made what the 09 movie made. Beyound wouldn’t even have broken $300 million. Now imagine if they make another $150+ million movie and it doesn’t even get shown there?

That’s why fans have to take the rose colored glasses off and look at the reality. There is a reason why we’ve gone 7 years without a movie and every new project has stalled. The numbers just doesn’t line up where they want these movies to be and there are way more factors working against them today versus 2016 when Beyond failed.

Yeah sadly Trek has never been a big movie seller overseas

They made bank while Abrams kept ditching his Paramount contract to go make them!

ROS was a lot but of course it was easy to justify it at the time when you’re making billion dollar plus movies. But I highly doubt next Star Wars movie will make as much since sadly fans have cooled on that franchise as Trek fans have cooled on its movies.

Agreed! 👍

Those movies were always too high for what they made. If they found a way to lower the budget by, let’s say, a lot, maybe one could get made before Chris Pine reaches 50 years old.

I don’t care either way, just fun to talk about it. Even if they made it, it would probably be on Paramount+ in 6 weeks and most would just wait to watch it there. Transformers came there in the same time. I watched that movie there the day after it landed. It was actually decent. 😃

You’re drawing the wrong lesson from that. Regardless of whether it’s a sequel or not, good movies usually do well and bad movies don’t.

There are exceptions — The latest MI movie has extremely high ratings by fans who saw it, but it was completely swamped by the Barbenheimer effect — picking bad release dates and piss-poor pre-marketing can also doom good movies — Beyond, J Carter and Solo, for example.

I have never seen any consistent trend of good movies doing better than bad ones — almost entirely the opposite, to be honest, if we count ‘mediocre’ in with bad.

Quite a few Black List scripts still turn out badly. Passengers was one, I believe. And Seven Pounds, Lions for Lambs, and London Boulevard. It still comes down to getting the right cooks and secret ingredients together and hoping the recipe is a winner after every cook has had their turn with it.

But I do agree the success of Oppenheimer and Barbie (as even worthy entries in nonetheless long in the tooth franchises run into trouble) hopefully portends to some chances being taken on new stories and bolder takes on IP in future.

Wow, yeah, PASSENGERS was seriously grotesque, that proves your point even w/o the other examples! (tho I enjoyed LONDON BLVD, which I saw as a step toward rehabilitating Colin Ferrell into a good actor again. With LIONS FOR LAMBS, that was supposed to be my first new article for ICG in about 6 or 7 years, but we couldn’t find anybody on the crew who wanted to talk about it. Geez, even for BATTLEFIELD EARTH, I found people wanting to talk about it — not all of them, but most.)

Lions for Lambs to me is just notable for how lost Tom Cruise was when Paramount cut him loose. He thought he could show up his detractors by reviving United Artists and making hits out of anything just by green lighting and starring in them himself. Bless him and his eventual comeback, but he was really out of his depth back then and that was sort of epitomized by every scene in that movie where Meryl Streep acts circles around him.

Is that when he and Paula Wagner parted company or was that later on?

It would seem to be what precipitated their split. After Valkyrie they parted ways as an official duo and the UA venture went away quietly. UA isn’t even mentioned on her Wikipedia entry.

But she still produced Jack Reacher with him afterwards, so maybe not an acrimonious split.

Passengers was just 50 Girls 50. From EC comics. A book i think even Al Williamson apologized for as misogynistic nonsense.

thats true about MCU – now its really just Spiderman, Guardians and (obviously) Avengers (and Deadpool) that are safe bets..

even Indiana Jones has bombed! (making less than the Ford less Solo!) as has Keatons return as Batman! (The Flash was basically sold as like a legacy sequel to Batman89). both unthinkable just a few years ago. hell even the new Mission Impossible has notably underperformed currently nearing its end with 500m (when estimates were saying it would pull in a billion due to last one doing 800m and Top Gun Mavericks crazy 1.5b)

so in this current climate a Kelvin Trek 4 would probably be lucky to pull in 200m ww! (that being still love to see them back in a 150m budget cinema movie! and i still think Paramount will be planning something big/multiversey involving various casts for 2026)

Ford took a massive pay cut over Skull and it still flopped. The budget was untenable at 295 million. It doesn’t look like a 300 million dollar movie it looks like it cost half that. The cgi was bad. It was shot digitally. Not up to the par of the first 4. It has two scenes i loved, but it doesn’t make it a good movie. Sallah and Marion’s scenes are good fanservice. More respectful than Disney Star Wars yes, but it also feels like a non canon entry like those. Like a expensive fan fiction.

Only Trekkies care about another movie and with less fans interested in JJ verse, a $200 million box office take, especially these days, is probably on point.

And Star Trek is nowhere close to those other franchises. And with the exception of Mission Impossible I didn’t watch any of those either. Only saw three movies this summer.

I would go see another Star Trek movie though but I doubt the $12 I spend will make make much of a difference. Or maybe it will be twice that much by the time another one comes out. 😂😥

I think a $200 million gross is a little too low IMO. I’m thinking minimum would be $250-300 million. Yeah still nothing to write home about but those would be acceptable if they kept the budget around $100 million.

But yeah I doubt Paramount is interested in making a movie with those kinds of projections. And yes of course it could go higher but I feel $300 million would be the ceiling right now and not the floor. That’s just not great.

The MCU is a dumpster fire right now.

The MCU right now is basically Star Trek right after enterprise and nemesis. They really be smart to take a five-year break and then gradually reboot the entire freaking thing. Nobody wants to Phase 17…lol

I’m interested in a good X-men movie but the rest not so much, it is a bit overdone. Its like DC i just want a good Superman movie sequel, i liked Man of Steel. I don’t really like the idea of a combined universe to be honest. It makes so much watered down, and like a homework assignment. Too man shows and movies.

I think all the multi-verse stuff lowers the stakes in a way that audiences can’t connect with. Kill a main character, fine … just go grab him from another reality if need be. It cheapens drama, like if every other TREK film had them killing Spock off.

I agree, MCU is now struggling more and more (but I think most studios would still love to be where MCU is now lol). So when that franchise is faltering along with the others, that bold even less for Trek unfortunately.

I do think we will get another Trek movie of course, MAYBE within 3-5 years (I’m thinking 3 now since that would coincide with the 60th anniversary). But it will probably be another reboot of some kind with a stripped down budget…but I been wrong before lol.

That’s so true. But the problem has alway been the sheer amount of money they pour into making these films in the first place. They practically have to make a billion to turn in a decent profit. Trek movies historically made money because they were cheap to make Trek’s II – IV famoulyt cost about the same as the Motion Picture alone and made way more profit.

Exactly, they poured so much ridiculous money into these things they expected real money like GOTG or even Star Wars money. But they got Sonic the Hedgehog money instead. 😂

That’s why they need to scrap these movies for good and make a movie around $80-100 million tops. Anything over that you’re just asking for trouble.

BYW I haven’t seen you here or the other place that much my best friend. I don’t think I ever saw your thoughts about the Crossover. What did you think? I thought it was amazing.

I told you to have faith in the crossover and it will provide! I hope it did for you too! 🙂

Sorry, I was on Vacation last week!

Yes, that’s literally the definition of “creative differences.”

Considering the new MI is the first in the series since 3 to underperform and that is Tom Cruise, how much chance is there for Star Trek in the movies? There is no place for a 300 million dollar Star Trek film when that is probably all it will make.

So you work at the studio?

I don’t think deciding on a script is a big deal and more about how much money it will cost them. And there is clearly zero enthusiasm to make another movie since this is the longest they’ve gone without making a movie all the way back to TMP. The second longest drought between Star Trek movies was between Nemesis and the first Kelvin movie and that was a 6 and a half year gap. Now we’re already passed 7 years with five cancelled projects and not a peep about the next one because there probably isn’t a next one yet.

And I don’t blame Paramount at all. These are expensive movies, they have to perform, period. I know one will happen at some point but if the money and confidence is not there right now and in a climate where these once sure fire franchises are struggling these days, then it’s not there.

Even MI Dead Reckoning Part 1 coming off the high of Top Gun 2 is a massive disappointment, It has to make what something between 700 and 900 million to be a hit. The series hasn’t had a near flop since 3.

I actually brought up Dead Reckoning disappointing performance on the Prodigy thread a few days ago. Yeah, this is the problem, if movies you were sure were going to make money (and a lot of it) is now failing, that makes it that much harder for a riskier proposition like Star Trek to ever get made.

But to be fair to MI 7, the biggest issue seems to be it lost it’s IMAX and Dolby screenings after just a week and all the attention has been on Oppenheimer and Barbie since. They sort of shot themselves in the foot saying DR was meant to be seen on the biggest screens and once that went away people lost interest.

And I read an article a week ago that said IMAX executives was suggesting to Paramount they move the date of the movie to give it more time on IMAX but the studio refused.

But if it kept itts original $190 million budget, it would at least be making a profit right now.

One segment of exhibition that is still doing well are Premium Large Format theaters. Hopefully Barbenheimer and the M:I fumble encourage more of them to be built. The dance card for IMAX screenings is pretty packed for the next year.

Quinto is a class act. He was handed the torch by Nimoy and is graciously handing it off to Peck. He still might be called on to play Spock again, but he also knows that’s highly unlikely as time is slipping away.

Kudos to both of these gentlemen for representing the best of Trek.

Add into the mix now that Paramount Global’s streaming service is an open artery on its revenue, with everything else that’s gone wrong we’re not going to see a movie (on the big screen) for years.
Q2 results are after the bell today. It’s expected to be brutal.

Phil, I get so happy for you when these articles come up. I’m picturing you as one of the old dudes in Cocoon, but instead of alien pods charging you up with youth, it’s Trekmovie articles that are suggesting the next Star Trek movie won’t happen — no doubt right now you are glowing green as your body becomes 20 years younger from this infusion of ‘the next Trek movie is dead” news.

Either that, or the raging alcoholic in me is playing the “I haven’t heard anything” drinking game….


It’s really too bad because I really like Paramoun+. I’m still upset over Prodigy but overall it’s a decent service. But man it’s tough to be a fan of this franchise right now. The future feels a lot less stable with everything going on. I predict P+ predicament is going to be much worse next year with far less content, but I guess you can say that about everything right now.

I go further to say that despite all their management drama and questionable decisions, I still like Paramount and root for them now that they are an underdog. The history of the studio is incredible, they have made some amazing movies for well over a century. And Star Trek is one of their Crown Jewels which they do prioritize. I think what would happen if a rival media conglomerate with bigger franchises were to take it over and it’s not pleasant.

Oh yeah very much agree. Especially back in the 80s and 90s, Paramount was really the king back then. They have a ton of iconic and classic films obviously and it was the studio that made the biggest output of movies every year. And yes, the home of Star Trek!

It’s not at the peak it used to be for sure but still makes great movies and shows. Unfortunately it has turned its attention too much to IPs and ‘tentpole’ movies because that’s what everyone is chasing today and it’s fair to say it’s been losing that battle lately with Top Gun Maverick the lone exception in years. And while Star Trek has always been sort of in the middle in terms of BO success, their other movie IPs people don’t talk about a lot like G.I. Joe, Terminator and TMNT has all been struggling way more recently.

As big as it’s library is, Paramount doesn’t own a ton of reliable franchises, which is why they cling to Trek and M:I as they are wholly owned and high profile. Transformers, G.I. Joe and Terminator are all licenses subject to negotiations.

Viacom’s biggest blunder though was passing up the option to buy Marvel. They did a stock buyback instead.

At least they own TMNT and the new film will make money – sounds like they really cracked it and kept the budget manageable. If only it were so simple for Trek films.

Yeah all good points. Can’t really disagree with any of that although I didn’t know they had the option to buy Marvel. I know they were distributing the movies before Disney bought it. Yeah they have to be kicking themselves lol.

And I did look up to see how well the new TMNT movie did this weekend. OK, but I don’t know what the budget is but I imagine much lower. And yes, that’s what they need to do with Star Trek again. And if people think 7 years is a long time between movies, imagine when we finally get another movie and THAT bombs too? It will probably be over a decade easily. They have to get in a cheaper mindset and just make smaller movies so they can feel more confident to produce them more. The Kelvin movies are too expensive and sorry, just not worth it when it’s basically just been an ubervillain trying to destroy the Federation.

TMNT cost $75 million. And the director was doing interviews where he said they were under the gun due to realizing they had to rework the script entirely, but they put all of that on themselves so as not to create a crunch for the animators. Practically a foreign concept these days. And apparently the movie is a delight!

Paramount used to be budget-conscious to the point of being a tightwad that was not talent-friendly. They famously refused to open the purse strings when Fox ran into budget overruns on Titanic, meaning they still got domestic box office for I believe $65 million. And I for one started to notice the tricks the Trek movies had to employ to circumvent their small budgets. I definitely remember decrying Paramount at the time for not coughing up a little extra money for more exotic location filming and better VFX in Insurrection, new sets in TUC, no stock shots in Generations, and a longer space battle in First Contact. They still looked great on the big screen most of the time, but I was guilty of bigger franchise envy for sure.

But at least we were getting movies. Now of course it’s the opposite problem. JJ proved the adage of spending more money to make more money, but everyone overestimated the reach of the franchise. $100 million needs to be spent carefully these days to not look cheap, but I really agree that’s close to the price point they can afford to make money on these movies and still look good.

The alternative is no movies at all.

Funny that we used to complain the Trek films were too cheap, but at least that was largely a guarantee we’d keep getting them.

They also passed on making John Carter of Mars directed by Favreau. Maybe dodged a flop.Who knows. Could have been better than the Disney version.

Q2 results beat expectations.

They are both great but neither of them is the complete deal. Quinto has the looks, Peck has got the voice. Together they would be a perfect Spock.

Maybe there could be a transporter accident and we get Quipeck :))

Jettison the Kelvin timeline into the ash heap of history.


If they are dead set on making a 300 million dollar Trek blockbuster they might as well go for broke and make JJ an offer he can’t refuse to direct Star trek 4. The problem is still the same though they have no script. Might as well give Orci and Kurtzman a crack at it. Since those guys who wrote Rings of Power couldn’t come up with a story.

They must have a whole bundle of scripts by now, given the many false starts since Beyond came out. The problem seems to be that none of these scripts is liked by enough people in power to get made.

I guess there aren’t folks like Meyer who can take several disparate scripts, mine them for what works and then create a new synthesis of their best qualities … in twelve days.

Of course that is assuming there is stuff that works in any or all of them.

dust off Orcis ST3 script. JJ directs. Cranston as the villian, Alice Eve back. CG deage Shatner to 1994 era. :)

I don’t think this movie could afford Abrams. He’s a HUGE reason STID went as high as it did and that was the days they were hoping for a billion dollar hit. And it’s obvious Abrams is not interested in directing since they had literally a year for him to replace Shakman. That or like I said, they just can’t afford him. If so…good! ;)

And Orci’s script involved both Shatner and Nimoy. I don’t think it will work without him since it also involved Vulcan and changing the timeline. I would imagine Prime Spock would be a huge factor in that.

Abrams should do it as a favour to the cast for jumping ship to SW in 2013 :), thus enabling Paramount to jettison the (superior) Orci script and Shatner to bring in Lin and Peggs script which (let’s face it) resulted in the (temporary?) death of the Trek movie franchise

No Nimoy no problem, I doubt it would’ve even been back then , just write around it/incorporate it

Dude keep Abrams faaaar away from directing anymore Star Trek. I would think after STID and TROS no one would be begging this guy to make any more of these movies lol. I don’t see your obsession of wanting Abrams back, no one is begging to have him back. I rather they just got someone completely new at this point.

Either way this is all a pipe dream. Orci didn’t quit, by all indications he was fired and they hated his script so much they ordered him to make another one which we know also wasn’t accepted. And we don’t know it was ‘superior’ because no one here has ever read it. Yeah the premise sounds promising, that doesn’t mean it was a good script either.

He did say he would love to adapt it into a novel some day. I think that’s more feasible but it looks like Orci has completely moved on from Trek and I can’t really blame him lol.

Id say the premise alone sounded better than Beyond :) certainly more in tune with previous 2 films (regarding timelines stuff)

A 6 issue comic/graphic novel would be best way to go, but the fact we havent had it yet suggests (maybe) Par a holding on to it to adapt for an eventual movie..(theatre or P+)

By the way, whatever happened to Orci? For some time he was writing and producing so much blockbuster stuff and even coming here to the comments sections from time to time and then he just seemed to have dissappeared after separating from Kurtzman.

Just by coincidence I looked at his IMDB page a week ago and it looks like he has one upcoming movie project coming up, but sounds like a smaller movie and nothing at the Transformers/Spider-Man/Star Trek levels of old.

But yeah I’m curious too. Orci had a huge career not that long ago and not just had a partnership with Kurtzman but also a very good working relationship with Abrams and Bad Robot. You would think he would be be working on other projects with them considering that’s where he did a lot of his work before and during Star Trek, but nothing. I think he just burned a lot of bridges there. But it’s proof Hollywood careers can flame out as fast as they light up. Just like what happened with the Kelvin movies themselves, nothing is ever a guarantee there.

I’ve been a fan of them since the Hercules/Xena days. A big fan of the Bad Robot shows. Loved Transformers Prime. I think Amazing Spider-Man 2 was destroyed in editing. When a bunch of scenes where cut. I think they’ve been given too much crap for that movie, i won’t defend the remake of The Mummy it was awful. Sofia was the only good part.

Before the show ended Sleepy Hollow was one of my all time favorite shows. Loved Alias. Haven’t seen Fringe i’m looking forward to watching all the seasons. Hated the end of Lost, and found the ending of Alias terrible as well. I don’t like Bayformers, the only thing i turned around on my dislike for was the first two Star Trek remakes. The opposite happened for MI 3 i hate it now when i used to love it. I will say Transformers actually got worse without Orci and Kurtzman though. Those Marky movies were awful.

At this point you been getting your wish for seven years and counting lol.

BUT they may still try and make one more but considering how ridiculously hard that has been, then you may get your wish. I personally like the movies but I been wanting them to move on since 2020 now for no other reason they clearly don’t have the money or confidence to make another one and another movie is just being stalled over it. It shouldn’t take this long to make another Star Trek movie and until these movies started, it wasn’t. They had no problem getting 3 more Transformers and Mission Impossible movies made since 2016 while Star Trek stays dead in the water.

Isn’t that what the Orci was going to do – only the jettisoning would have closed the temporal tunnel and along with it the Kelvinverse, making the thing all revert to prime.

I doubt the kelvin timeline would’ve been reset to Prime by the end , more likely Quinto/Pine (and Shatner) would’ve been trying to prevent its erasure (despite Vulcan gone/Spocks mother/Kirks father dead)

Forget the movie and make a ST that takes place in the Kelvin Universe. A show with completely new characters with a ship not named Enterprise.

I can understand this argument due to the creative freedom it comes with. I wonder though how many more Star Trek shows Paramount + can afford to have? I don’t think it’s a coincidence it’s getting rid of Prodigy. Clearly they are having financial issues even if I don’t get all of the nuisances of the business.

We know they have a writer’s room for a Starfleet academy show, a 3rd season of SNW and of course more Lower Decks. Discovery is finishing its 5 year run and that may be it for the company for awhile. Unless they decide to create more shows to sell like they are doing with Prodigy.

But that wouldn’t be Star Trek for a lot of casual fans and these are the people you need to get interested for any show to succeed.

Trek fans love the Kelvin Universe.

Why do you keep putting that in bold?

Also, a ton of fans do NOT love the Kelvin universe.

They DO !

Obviously not enough to make any real money, that’s the problem. I have no doubt there are still a lot of Kelvin universe fans out there, the problem is can you get enough of them to see it in a theater or will they just wait until it comes home to digital, blu-ray or streaming? Based on what happened with Beyond it’s probably the latter, especially these days.

Star Trek has always done better on TV. Look at SNW and Picard. I don’t think either would be big enough hits if you turned them into movies, but they both thrive on TV or at least streaming.

As far as the Kelvin universe, they should just try and do a streaming mini-series on Paramount+. Or pull a Picard season 3 and make it a big event to end the series if there is no interest for a theatrical movie but want to give them a proper send off. That’s probably more realistic than making another $150 million movie that will probably break even at best. I just don’t see that happening at all anymore.

I’d be very interested in a Kelvin universe based series myself. Kelvin universe got me back into Trek.

Yeah I think those movies got a lot of old fans back into Trek, especially if you weren’t happy with the later TNG films or Enterprise. Unfortunately it wasn’t enough of them to sustain it either.

The Kelvin movies got me back into Star Trek but not the same way as you my friend. After watching the 09 movie and thinking it was SO bad I started watching my TNG/DS9/VOY DVDs again full time and remembered what true Trek stories were like again. By that point I wasn’t watching Trek very much and sporadically.

And it was the 09 movie that convinced me to give Enterprise another chance. That was the year I watched the whole show for the first time because I wanted new Trek and I that’s when I realized that show was pretty awesome lol. Still nowhere close to the 24th century stuff and TOS but good in it’s own right and miles ahead of the Marvel movie in space I watched that summer.

Once I accepted it was in a more primitive time and the Carsassians or the Romulans would never appear on it (although later they did lol) I got into the show. And it’s also where I fell in love with the Andorians and Xindi, who I knew I was going to hate.

So yes the Kelvin movies got me back into Star Trek too! 😁

I did like the Kelvin movies but they prompted me to go back to wade through TOS again which leads me to finally watching DS9 because TOS and I don’t get along very well. (Before anyone says anything, that’s just how I feel about it.)

Wow did you and TOS get into a fight or something? But it lead you to DS9 so JJ verse did something right…for a change.

The only one i regret missing in theaters is 2009. Saw Into Darkness in Imax. Even the home 4K doesn’t come close to that. Beyond i didn’t bother the trailer didn’t interest me at all. I finally saw it on cable, it was very much meh. Very underwhelming. My brother who loved the first two and dragged me to see the second, thought the third was just okay.

Dude, I’ve seen all three Kelvin films TWICE in the theaters. Out of the six watches, I watched them on IMAX four times. I always like to brag to everyone I saw the first Kelvin movie at the opening premiere in Australia with the cast and JJ Abrams (but only people who likes Star Trek cares, so I only brag about it to very few people lol).

And I had problems with all of them frankly for reasons I stated many times and I really didn’t think Abrams was the right guy to make them in terms of Star Trek itself But I still felt they were worth watching in the theater as fun escapist action movies and twice in fact. And I even pulled a few non-Trek friends and family to come watch them with me; at least the first and third movie.

I think some people read my posts when they get discussed and believe I have it out for these movies and I want them to end permanently. No, that couldn’t be farther from the truth. If they make another one, I will happily see it opening weekend too and probably go see it twice as well if it’s entertaining enough. I’m just reading the room at this point and the appetite for them simply isn’t there anymore like it was when STID came out a decade ago (wow). So it’s just time to move on IMO; at least in the theatrical arena and not from the Kelvin universe completely. Paramount SEEMS to know that but probably has no idea what they can replace it with so they are in a holding pattern where to go next.

I don’t really envy them, but it’s also partly their fault too.

Wow that’s way more than me!

I saw the first one twice in the theater. But once with ID and Beyond each. And the only reason why I watched Beyond in the theater because I had a free movie ticket. And the reviews after the week sounded OK. But after STID I swore I would never waste my money on more JJ verse nonsense. And I ended up liking Beyond. But maybe rock bottom low expectations and a free viewing helped! 😂

I’m just curious why do you think it was Paramount fault for them failing? Not disagreeing just curious about your thoughts?

Nothing that hasn’t been said a thousand times in the past, but mostly the waiting gap between the first and second film which cooled the hype a lot, mostly with new fans. The idiotic decision to keep ‘Khan’ a secret in the marketing which one hand built a lot of hype and mystery for the character, but the the immense backlash they got by old fans once it was released was probably not worth it. And then the truly awful marketing of Beyond with that first trailer and what I’m convinced really kept a lot of people away. They wanted it to come off as GOTG as they could and it backfired supremely. But it was badly marketed all around. Some people have argued they knew the movie was going to be a turkey once they projections and probably didn’t care as much.

But the biggest issue is just giving these movies too much money. The first one was fine and in line with most blockbusters. The second one was too much but that was because Abrams went over budget. But they were confident they were probably going to make $600+ million minimum. But once they saw that STID wasn’t going to be the next TDK, then they should’ve curtailed the budget for Beyond by a lot. Even cheaper than the first movie. Not a ton but around $140 million. But I guess because of all the issues over Orci’s movie and rushing the film after being delayed, giving Pine and the cast more money, etc, it just couldn’t be helped. But if they could’ve kept it at $140 million, the movie would’ve been a success and we probably would’ve gotten another years ago. Some people want to raise the next one to $200 million and I just shake my head.

That’s why we still don’t have one today lol, because they over shot the demand. And today it would probably be lower given all the factors that didn’t exist in 2016 and the fact the demand is almost nonexistent today except mostly hardcore fans. The same type of fans who are begging for a season 5 of Enterprise or want a Khan show. (ugh)

So a lot of it was their fault but of course some things just can’t be helped. But a lot of this just came down to overestimating the product they had more than anything. Again Star Trek is a big IP, but it’s just not geared for masses like the others and you have to work with what you have. Why it works so much better on TV.

Well thanks for that and agree with most, especially the first Beyond teaser trailer. Like oh my God? What . were.they.thinking?? And that’s what originally convinced me to skip the movie until I got the free coupon.

But I think a lot of people made up their mind when fratboy Kirk is jumping off motorcycles while more Beastie Boys are playing (IT’S A SAAAAABOTAAAAGE!!!) You certainly got that right Beastie Boys. 🙄 I remember thinking what have they done to Star Trek?? Was Shades of Grey, The Fight, Profit and Lace, The Final Frontier and Nemesis not enough suffering for us? Now you have to pull this bleep too? What have we fans done to deserve this? It’s amazing that movie wasn’t another total dumpster fire, especially after the aptly named Star Trek Into Dumpster fire.

Sorry about the rant. Sometimes you have to let it out. I was just on Reddit going into my annual rant over the Kazon. Bro it’s a species that has warp capable ships BUT COULDN’T FIND WATER???? WHAT THE BLEEP MAN!?!?’

I gotten 20 likes so far. You can’t just ignore the evils of history, you have to confront it head on no matter how painful.

Off to watch an episode of Lower Decks to calm myself down and remember all the good in the galaxy. Tendi is amazing. 🙂

A ton of Star Trek fans love anything that has the words “Star Trek” on it. They people who don’t love the Kelvin universe probably equal the number of people who don’t like this season of Strange New Worlds, so, like three people who can all be ignored forever.

I think you are grossly undercounting our number, for we are legion.

I thought you liked SNW Kmart? Or am I interpreting this sentence wrong?

I loved one ep of s1, liked 2 others.

This season, I only really enjoyed the crossover, though the M’Benga war thing with Robert Wisdom came closest to being okay. It isn’t like DSC, where the show misses so badly that it would make me physically ill to keep watching, but it is still infuriating given the resources and the potential.

I used to think it was partly jealousy over them getting to do this job instead of me, but man, they just ain’t doing it right, not even close.

Wasn’t the Crossover the best man? 🙂 It just fills your heart with tribble tranquility. It’s my favorite of the entire show

Now you mentioned Discovery and now I feel I just been stabbed through the heart by a Mek’leth. And now one of the Discovery Klingons are eating it. How did that show even get on the air?

Getting on the air seems to be equal parts politics and inertia (as in, it was time and then some for trek to return to the small screen), but staying on the air … that’s the real question in my book.

OK thanks for the response. I guess I overestimated how much you liked the show then. But at least you’re still watching it and agreed the crossover episode was great!

I was ready to bow out early but that did give the show a brief reprieve in my mind. My wife, however, is no longer allowing me to mutter during the episodes, saying if I hate them that much I need to watch them alone. I have explained how bitching about a show’s deficiencies is part of my process, going back even before TNG, but I guess unless I’m being very funny (like the ‘Boyce with benefits’ line about Pike’s starship captain squeeze), it comes off too much like sour grapes to her.

Didn’t Bob Orci pitch an Excelsior show with Sulu. John Cho.

There was talk about it, but it didn’t get very far.

I would’ve loved to have seen that!

I thought this was a good idea too and wondered why it never took off. Maybe if that Cowboy Bebop show with Cho had been a success at Netflix there might have been more of a possibility of this happening but as it stands I don’t think Cho ever had a hit show so they don’t think it would be successful with him in the lead.

If not for Viacom and CBS being different entities when Discovery was greenlit, it’s possible that’s the direction they would have taken. There’s really nothing preventing them from doing that now.

I don’t think there was anything preventing them before. That was just a unproven assumption people online made without facts to back it up.

This is based on a conversation with my contact over there. Star Trek was a shared entity but there was a division as it related to Star Trek under Paramount Pictures as a part of Viacom (the feature films) and Star Trek under CBS (all television related properties). The Kelvin films were unique in that they were an entity that fell under the film studio and not shared with the television division.

Yeah it sounds like the studio had direct rights to the movies and trying to make something for TV would’ve been a big hurdle. Plus add to the fact CBS never seemed that interested in the Kelvin movies because they were making their money off the old shows and the Prime universe and where they wanted to keep the attention on as we are seeing now.

That is correct, sir!

When National Amusements split Viacom, Les Moonves was instrumental in how Viacom was to be restructured. When he spoke to the company I worked for some years back, he said he had wanted no part of the film business or cable, preferring to focus on CBS, sports and television production (as well as retaining Simon & Schuster). That impacted Star Trek in a big way, with Paramount Pictures retaining rights to the 10 movies and anything related to them and CBS retaining the rights to all Star Trek television series and anything related to them. Star Trek’s 50th Anniversary was likely a bit anti-climatic as a result of this split, with Star Trek under the control of two separate entities.

“Forget the movie and make a ST that takes place in the Kelvin Universe. A show with completely new characters with a ship not named Enterprise.”

I think for the first time in years, we fully agree on something lol. Yeah I would be all for this. Keep the Kelvin universe alive, but with new characters and setting. To be honest with you, I’m shocked with ALL the Trek shows out now, this has never been one of them. People were convinced if and when Star Trek would come back to TV, it would solely be in the Kelvin universe. Instead the opposite has happened and it’s been completely ignored for more Prime universe shows.

And of course I get why the focus is back on the Prime universe and never doubted it would be back. But I’m pretty sure if you make a show in the Kelvin universe it would get just as much attention as those shows now and especially by people who become fans of Star Trek due to those movies.

I guess they are scared old fans will riot or boycott P+ over it lol. I really have no idea why this hasn’t at least been considered by now.

A 4th should have happened years ago. The pandemic probably killed plans for a 4th for good. I love the cast. Chris Pine is my favorite of them. I was dead set against him in the beginning, i was wrong. If there is one thing JJ is good at it is casting his Star Trek and Star Wars films.

ST4 can still get a green for go…but it needs to drop the mega budget & go for a more focused tighter character driven story like TWOK or TUC…both made on very low budgets!

Maybe the model should be the Karl Urban DREDD … except that didn’t make enough to justify a sequel either, even though it was a nice compact little flick (one that I keep forgetting exists.)

Agreed but I don’t see these movies ever going that low. They still want the Marvel crowd.

Glad to see the two Spock’s meet. I wish they mind melded each other.

It’s actually pretty cool to see these two guys together! 😎

As far as the creative differences, I think Paramount creatively likes having and earning money and knows another JJ verse movie could kill that prospect fast because a lot of people stopped caring about it long, long ago and afraid it will just bomb.

Trump probably has a better chance of staying out of prison then getting another soulless JJ verse movie.

But wish upon a star, you never know. Miracles can still happen. 😀

A Kelvin film coming in at $100 million would more than make its money back. Before Star Trek ’09 (and after Star Trek: TMP), Star Trek films were modestly budgeted affairs that always turned a profit at the box office (with the exception of “Nemesis” which just managed to break even).

The irony of the Kelvin films is that the third entry earned more at the box office than the first two. This usually serves as an indication that the franchise is moving in the right direction and results in a firm, immediate green light. At the time, however, Paramount was on less than firm footing and in a state of flux. Once Brian Robbins was named head of the studio in 2021, things became much more focused. If another feature film is going to happen, he’ll be the one to make sure that it does and will ensure that all of the principals involved are locked in before an announcement is made at the behest of higher ups.

Where are you getting those numbers? From Box Office Mojo (not the de facto, of course, but fastest I could find):

ST09: $385 mil WW – $150 mil budget = $235 mil before P&A
STID: $467 mil WW – $190 mil budget = $277 mil before P&A
STB: $343 mil WW – $185 mil budget = $158 mil before P&A

“Hollywood accounting” certainly flips all hits into losses, but even just looking at raw numbers the amount of even profitability after the cost of distributing the movie and advertising it gets called into question with this trio. But if Beyond made more than the rest, I definitely want to see that source.

My post is pending (I provided links) but, yeah, I reversed the numbers!

You seem to have your numbers mixed up. Beyond had the lowest boxoffice take of all three at $343 million. Into Darkness made $467 million worldwide, whereas the first one made $386 million.

Completely mixed them up. My bad!

This is why we get along so well Denny C! :D

Yeah I been saying it for at least 5 years now, make a MUCH smaller movie of around $100 million and you are least guaranteed to make a profit unless the movie just really sucks. But the problem is they know they can’t turn up the ‘spectacle’ with that money and that will turn away the crowds who only show up for these movies for the explosions and big battles. So I get why Paramount is not that excited about a smaller movie because most studios don’t want to just make some money, they want to make a lot of money these days. And with Star Trek that’s never been the case no matter what they do. The mentality of the 80s and 90s are dead.

But that’s probably why the movie slate is in such a stalemate. They probably can’t justify making a super high budget movie anymore, but it doesn’t motivate them to make a more budget one either and here we are.

EDIT: I erased my post over the Beyond numbers now that I see you corrected it.

They had a Noah Hawley movie ready to shoot and they pulled the plug on it late. Conceivably, no rational studio head is handing Noah Hawley a $200 million budget to make a major tentpole, and so it’s logical to conclude *that* movie would’ve been exactly this. There’s still a deep vein of Hollywood idiots who think all pictures have to be tentpoles to justify the expenditure, but also, Paramount probably thinks it’s better off investing in Star Trek on TV given the constant financial failures on the feature side. I think I agree with that assessment, even though a Star Trek movie with Cate Blanchett as Captain, made for under $150 million, would’ve been a financial success.

Hawley’s probably happy with his ALIEN TV series, maybe he can recycle some of the TREK storyline into that.

Out of all the cancelled projects, it was Hawley’s I was most excited about because it sounded like it was going to be all new characters which is what I truly want in the next movie. But yes I ALSO suspect that was so he can just hire cheaper actors as well and keep the budget waaay down compared to the Kelvin movies. It probably was going to be a more stripped down movie which frankly I think most Trek fans would be happy with.

I also think that’s why they were interested in Tarantino. His name alone has a lot of gravitas but I think his most expensive film cost around $100 million and I’m guessing that’s what his Trek movie would’ve cost or at least around there. Especially when it was revealed it was going to be A Piece of the Action rip off so it would mostly be another Earth based time travel movie and not a lot of space battles or foreign planets.

I think TV is where it will stay for a long time to come. I’m guessing Lower Decks budget is so cheap, they can probably make 5 more seasons on just what it cost to pay the Kelvin cast alone.

wild ‘out there’ take..

Kelvin Spock as the surprise cliffhanger at the end of SNW s2?

Yeah…no lol.

Kirk: Spock … you’ve put on weight. Isn’t that my job?

Wow it’s pretty cool the two Spocks finally got to meet in public. A little sad Nimoy couldn’t be there too but still nice. I know he and Quinto became real friends after the first film so I know he has a lot of great memories with them together.

As far as the next movie, I’ve repeated myself enough, but the short version is I think it’s over. I been saying that since 2019 frankly although Paramount keep threatening to prove me wrong, but they haven’t yet lol. Again I don’t mean we’ll never see another movie, I just think it’s probably not feasible for another Kelvin movie at this point.

But I also want to make clear I don’t think the Kelvin universe will disappear into thin air either (as some seem to really want that to happen). I’ve always said it would be nice to give them one last send off if nothing else, but since that’s looking more unlikely as well, that’s why they should look into doing a mini-series of some kind on Paramount+. Just do what Picard season 3 did and make it a big event send off type of thing for these characters. It would get tons of hype over it IMO.

And now we have precedence of turning theatrical movies into streaming mini-series with both Obi Wan Kenobi and the Book of Boboa Fett. Both of those were originally suppose to be standalone movies like what Solo was. Of course Solo bombed so those were cancelled until Disney+ gave them a new life and brought back the original actors as well. They even used the Obi Wan movie script for the show, just expanded it for the show (for better or worse). Now the difference is Disney still spent a ridiculous amount of money on those shows and basically transferred a movie budget to make them. I think they both cost around $200 million. No way does P+ have that kind of money for Star Trek lol, but it’s possible you can make it there, just what the other shows get now which isn’t cheap fare either.

And I just have a feeling for Kelvin universe fans, it’s probably way more likely that universe will show up in streaming in some form instead of a theater again…at least one day.

I think Trek is going the opposite direction a bit though. While franchises like Star Wars and Marvel are turning their movies into miniseries, Trek is turning its series (miniseries) into streaming movies (section 31) The main reason being that Paramount doesn’t have the insane amount of money Disney does.

If they could just make a Kelvin TV movie, that would be fine too obviously. But I still have a feeling they are more invested in TV show based content when you look at Paramount+ original output overall and 90% are TV shows and mini-series. I think they have made 2 or 3 movies so far for that site.

The Section 31 movie seems a bit different because they promised Yeoh a show but when it became obvious that wasn’t going to happen, this become the compromise. That said they did say they plan to make a Trek TV movie every two years but we’ll see. But yeah I don’t see why a Kelvin movie couldn’t be one of them outside of the cast wanting more money. But I think if they are told this is their only option to revisit those characters again, most would do it.

Either way Star Trek’s future is on streaming. I think Trek theatrical movies are based on way too many factors that doesn’t guarantee a reliable or stable output even if they manage to get another one made within the next 5 years.

Could totally see a 70-100m budget Kelvin finale P+ event series (like Pic s3) or P+ movie (like s31) being done at some point maybe the 60th anniversary (also 10th ann of Beyond!).. or maybe part of a crossover event thing that fans will go nuts for ,’Crisis of Infinite Star Treks’

As much as I want to be able to say ‘one to star trek’ again (or more recently selecting on a console in the cinema lobby) I can’t see it happening anytime soon (esp after Indiana Jones and Mission Impossible failed to bring in their usual numbers..)

Yeah this is just more realistic. There is no more buzz or hype to guarantee a movie is going to make a profit, much less be huge. And Paramount isn’t interested in just making a profit, they want these movies to be huge once you spend a certain amount on them.

But a cheaper P+ limited event series for these characters would be easier to justify since it’s also easier to get the casual fans to watch something at home versus the theater, especially these days. Same time I’m not holding my breath that we will ever happen either because none of the higher ups or current producers ever mentions the Kelvin universe and Paramount+ when discussing the future of Trek and potential shows; but I have to think it’s at least feasible.

And if fans start to push for it like they are pushing for the Legacy show, maybe it will happen.

I hold little optimism in a Kelvin Trek IV ever happening. Too much time has gone by. Anton Yelchin’s absence would be glaring. Production costs would be too high for the box office return. Perhaps most of all, it’s clear they don’t have a good script and it’s been 7 flipping years. Shame they wasted such a great cast. Strange New Worlds has nicely filled the void.

I have an idea for the next movie.

It should be TNG…. From the musical universe


LOL don’t give them anymore ideas man. ;D

Brent is already gliding down his staircase throwing tissues at the suggestion

MCU and disney in general was shut out of china during covid, not able to release movies there until ‘way of water’ last year so it affected box office for phase 4.
but that phase still made nearly $5 billion worldwide.

Ditch Kelvin big budget move and get back to the quality ‘Trek