In the last couple of weeks we reported on some comments from Simon Pegg about the possible next Star Trek movie, made while he has been out promoting Ready Player One. But the Scotty actor has also been talking about 2016’s Star Trek Beyond, which he co-wrote with Doug Jung. Some of what he is saying was covered before in 2016, but it is interesting to hear Pegg’s perspective on the experience now that he has had a couple of years to reflect. Highlights from Pegg’s discussions of Beyond are below.
Simon Pegg with director Justin Lin on the set of Star Trek Beyond
Pegg talks “maddening” process with Justin Lin and last-minute changes to the script
Speaking with Build, Simon Pegg talked about some initial reluctance to being handed the keys to write a Star Trek movie but how he was happy with the results, making a film that was more like a classic Star Trek episode. He also talked about the how at times it was “maddening” working with director Justin Lin, who he described as “more of a visual communicator.”
Pegg also noted the challenge of writing a script late in the process, after Paramount rejected the script from Roberto Orci but didn’t want to change the release date. He described how the shortened writing process meant that he and co-writer Doug Jung continued even during production:
Every day [we were writing on set]. We would look at the schedule and say “We have got this scene and this scene tomorrow, let’s stay up until midnight and make sure it is right. I am remember texting Chris Pine at three o’clock in the morning and saying “Kirk will say this, don’t say that, say this.”… It was all about polishing. We had the shape and the structure and the events, but it was about finessing the dialog, the character interactions, the motivations, all of that stuff. Every single day of the shoot we wrote.
Didn’t expect making Sulu gay to be an issue
And in an interview on SiriusXM, Pegg was asked about how Beyond established Hikaru Sulu as gay by giving him a husband. Pegg defended the decision, saying it was better to make an established character gay over introducing a new one, adding:
This is a world where acceptance is total, and all of that kind of thing is not an issue, and we kind of wanted it to be not an issue, which is why we made it Sulu. And it became an issue.
Being a nerdy pain on set
Pegg and fellow nerd Stephen Colbert lamented that kids today don’t have to deal with the same “nerd” stigma when they were young. Pegg also talked about how his inner nerd can make him annoying on set, even on Star Trek:
I am a kid of the ’70s. I grew up on Star Wars and Star Trek, and those things I eventually got to be in, which is strange. It makes me a pain on set. I’m like “No, no, no, no. I think you will actually find the warp drive is actually a bubble of subspace, which the Enterprise…doesn’t go fast. It’s space-time being warped.” So, yes, I am a pain on set.
Critiques Paramount marketing
While Pegg is happy with Beyond, he has also made it clear he isn’t happy with how Paramount marketed the film. Speaking to the Happy Sad Confused podcast, Pegg lamented on how promotions didn’t capitalize on the 50th anniversary of the franchise:
I wasn’t happy with the way the film was marketed. It was a big year for Star Trek, and I felt it was never embraced. I feel sometimes people get scared of the Star Trek fanbase as being a kind of closed shop. If we were to mention Star Trek in some way, it would turn all the other people who hadn’t seen Star Trek off. It felt an odd thing to do.
And in an interview with Geek, Pegg noted that he was particularly upset over the first trailer for the film (which you can see below):
I was really angry about that, because it used “Sabotage,” which was our surprise moment in the end. It was supposed to be a very fun and heightened twist, and something that was a big surprise and they blew it in the first trailer, which really annoyed me. They also made the film look like a boneheaded action film. And they were scared, I think, of mentioning the 50th Anniversary. It was fumbled as a thing; they didn’t know what to do with it and it’s a real shame.
After Beyond, would only take a call from Spielberg
And on NBC’s Today Show, Pegg talked about how the whole process of making Star Trek Beyond tired him out to the point where he wasn’t interested in taking any more jobs, with one exception:
I finished Star Trek Beyond and that was a huge experience because we wrote it and it was very intense and it was wonderful, but afterwards I was so tired and didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life. I felt I kind of done everything I wanted to do, so I was going to take six months off and I called my agent and said “Don’t call me for six months unless Steven Spielberg calls,” and he did!
That phone call from Spielberg was about a role in his movie Ready Player One, which came out last weekend. Pegg plays Ogden Morrow, co-creator of the VR world the “Oasis,” which is at the heart of the film. Ready Player One is also chock full of pop culture references, including a scene taken straight out of a Star Trek movie.
Interesting comments.
Its probably seen as a bad thing if you’re still writing dialogue during production but I believe that’s pretty common isnt it, to have a writer on set? I like that they were intent on polishing it even during production.
I think they did the best job of the three films in terms of getting the character’s “voices” correct and natural (other then the Spock laughing scene)
Their focus was on making a film like an episode and in that way, they were very successful. But I think that was the most pressing issue with the movie, it felt small. Had Beyond been the 2nd film, I think it would have performed better and been accepted better, allowing for a bigger story and greater “chances” being taken for the 3rd.
It really does make me want to know Bob Orci’s Trek 3 story even more. Because whatever it was, it was likely an insane idea that scared the studio into thinking it would flop or it was an awesome story…that was so cool it also scared the studio into thinking it *might* flop. Whatever happened, for them to change directions like that…very weird.
And what if they didnt like Pegg’s story? I mean, they were sort of stuck with it no matter what.
Pegg previously said they were not permitted to know anything about Bob’s stories but I seem to recall Bob taking exception to that and noting some similar ideas or scenes. Perhaps Bob can clarify that (@BobOrci)
Really interesting to see Pegg mention the use of “Sabotage” as ruining a surprise they had. Thats really something and I think it would have been a fun call-back to 2009 had it been a surprise.
He’s spot on about it seeming like a mindless action film. I remember when that first trailer came out and there was so much criticism, many of us (I think even me) said no no, this is just the “action” version aimed at a specific audience, they will release different versions…and they didnt really, not right away anyway.
The core issue with Beyond which the writer’s couldn’t fix during production was the main plot surrounding Krall (his identity and desire for revenge).
Casablanca was still being written during filming, and they didn’t settle on an ending until well into the shoot. That turned out ok.
They were still figuring out the *plot,* not just (as in STB) tweaking the dialogue, with ‘Casablanca.’ And that’s just the exception 80 years later which proves the rule.
I’ve been thinking about ‘Beyond’ more recently, which I still feel is the strongest story of the new trilogy, and I feel like the first half is pretty brilliant from a *Trek* point-of-view. It develops all the main characters in depth and culminates in the destruction of the Enterprise, which is a pretty tired idea, but one that in this case was brilliantly executed. You really feel the sense of a massive starship that’s not easy to take down. And then all the character development once they arrive on the planet is so strong.
But yeah, it looks like this simplistic and rehashed plot with Krall was always set in stone as the narrative endgame, and so the second half becomes tedious and predictable. I think the screenwriters were probably given the most leeway on the first half but, given time reasons, from a postproduction standpoint the more spectacle heavy second part had to be mapped out early on (hence the decent into mindless action film-ness) and so they relied heavily on the same plot device that structured the previous two.
I really doubt the Orci script was that radical. I also wonder why, if Orci’s so invested in telling a great Trek story, he didn’t pursue other options, such as CBSAA.
@Holden – I dont disagree. Pegg got a lot right but yeah, that Krall story as the lynchpin…the script had a lot of good but needed certain elements re-worked that just couldnt be done in the short time-frame.
Regarding writing for television, its interesting. Orci and Kurtzman split up but according to Wiki (for what thats worth) they were going to continue to collaborate on TV so you’d think Orci being involved with Discovery would be a no-brainer.
I get the sense that it wasnt his choice (just by some comments or “tone” of his comments here).
I always felt Orci was a good idea man. Just needed a different writer to bring those ideas to a better vision on screen.
Holden, I agree heartily.
This was the FIRST time destruction of the Enterprise was handled so well, respecting the ship. Beautifully, in fact. The crew wanted their lady to go down with dignity; the Enterprise sheltered them to the last; Kirk and Uhura fought off baddies while securing ship’s systems and wow, I was just so impressed by how it went down, so to speak.
This to me was the FIRST meaningful destruction of the Enterprise. Taken down by enemies, rising in her moment of “death” to defeat them.
Props to Pegg and Jung for that.
As for Orci’s story, it was probably “too Trek-y” because [all rumors here] he wanted to magically bring back Shatner and re-join the timelines so the Prime Uni would be, what, saved? Yes, a two-hour callback for some lifelong Trek fans, but other people’d be like, “whaaaaat?”
I liked getting “Beyond”
Too bad they couldn’t use Idris Elba in his regular handsome incarnation, as a charismatic Section 31 villain.
Nothing can beat the destruction of the Enterprise in TSFS because, refit aside, that was THE Enterprise, OUR Enterprise. The destruction in Beyond was suitably cool but we have no emotional connection to the ship.
Making it look like an Apple Store didnt help that either. There was no sense that the ship was anything but a vehicle.
Kirk’s desperate moment when David is killed…his sudden “snapping”
back to the issue at hand, his vow that they werent finished yet (said almost like he was trying to convince himself), ordering everyone away except the two officers he needed, the look on their faces but in that moment they did not dare object…and especially, seeing the ship burning up while Kirk watches almost as pained as when David died asking “what have I done..” that moment of doubt, speaking for all of us watching (yeah, what HAVE you done?!)…
THAT was an amazing scene.
Regarding Orci’s story, I think you’re right in the sense Paramount didnt want to bring in Shatner. But the rumor was Shatner & Nimoy would play older versions of Kelvin Kirk & Spock.
The idea of repairing the timeline makes sense. It sounds like it was a story that envisioned the three JJ films as a trilogy of sorts.
I agree, TUP, that for many of us fans (myself included), the destruction of the Enterprise in STIII will never be topped from an emotional standpoint. I feel that has as much to do with our investment in the franchise as the film itself (though the David scene is so devastating!). A lot of its power is because the idea of doing it at all seemed so radical and absurd at that point in the franchise. We’re talking twenty years after the ship was first introduced to audiences. The new trilogy in general has really cheapened the idea for spectacle’s sake. But I still maintain that how it was handled in STB was incredibly well-done, much more intense and prolonged than just crashing her or pushing the self-destruct button.
There’s a moment in Beyond when Uhura first notices the secret about Krall– she looks at the screen and notices…something odd. There’s intrigue and mystery and there is this wonderful sense of *movie moment* there. And then a few moments later, that movie magic is mostly lost in a generic revenge motivation plot that, other than the spectacular set-piece special effects, is just kind of waiting-for-the-movie-to-end eye candy.
For the most part, Beyond is a very good Star Trek movie and also my favorite of the three reboots. There are several scenes that are just about perfect. But with just maybe a bit more script polish, it really could have been something incredible.
I wonder, would it have been too goofy to replace the Franklin with the NX-01 Enterprise and replace Krall with….hmmmmmm well it couldnt be Archer which would be the most interesting and the other actors wouldnt have been able to carry it.
But…drop the alien aspect and create a reason why an old ship’s crew would not age. Perhaps the “new” Captain of the Enterprise could be Elba and when Jaylah takes Scotty to the ship, its the NX-01 and Trip is there…he’s a good guy to Elba’s descent into madness, been working to restore the Enterprise for years (ignoring his silly death in Enterprise).
I mean, if you’re using past ships as a nod to the anniversary.
TUP, That would have been cool!
[but you know there’d be people here bitchin’ about how it was “ST: Enterprise” and not TOS or some other series they liked better]
Having the NX-01 there certainly would have been a cool fan moment and would have added to the whole legacy feel to the franchise–help tie the J.J. world to the original. And actually, now that I think about it, the J.J. films have already referenced Enterprise quite a bit (Porthos!) And yes, it would have been nice to have seen Trip again.
VoR, that moment was the best! Aural sensivity indeed! But yeah, after that it became lame.
Yeah thats what I was saying on the other page about Beyond and Krall’s character. I thought the film overall was good, even if it felt a little been-there-done-that before. But I think the ONE place they really dropped the ball was Krall. A guy that felt like he had a real grievance with the Federation and then of course we find out just another guy who wanted revenge because he wasn’t getting his way basically. His entire motivation and backstory is frankly muffled. I don’t get how he knew about the device, why it turned him into an alien, why did he give himself another name, why did he stay on that planet when it was clear he could’ve left it long ago and on and on and on.
They really could’ve fleshed that out a LOT better. But it was still better than ‘Khan’ in STID. ;)
Agreed! Edison seemed like he could have been quite a rich character in and of himself. A man suited for Section 31 perhaps, but no place to put that talent.
Yup, none of it made sense.
Yeah, I hate it when I’m napping and the phone rings and it’s f£*^ing Speilberg again with some favor to ask.
Happens to me all the time. Every time I’m drifting off to the land of nod, Spielberg or some noted filmmaker calls me up to ask my opinion on something, or a recipe, or help with the crossword. Pain in the…!
Funny I just usually get a lot of drunk texts from Spielberg these days. I don’t even respond most of the time anymore. I had to block him from my Facebook page eons ago.
CmdrR,
LOL
And damned del Toro won’t leave me alone.
I thought Beyond was mediocre, but to make a picture of that scale in the timeframe they did, and have it not totally suck, is an achievement in itself. It doesn’t reach the giddy heights of Fast 5ive, but is probably the equal of a Furious 6ix. Er wait, what’s the one where they go to Rio?
I’ve decided to upgrade my Beyond rating to Mediocre+, because Captain Kirk wears goggles while riding a motorcycle and I liked the alien lassie. Also points for the design of the funky USS Frank Lin.
Jaylah was great. Without her, Im not sure I’d even have watched it a second time. And I, like most fans apparently, did “time travel” type stories and a ship from the past fits that bill. I agree, the Franklin was well done.
And they took care to make it look right taking into account Enterprise, so gold star for that.
The angry alien out for revenge was so ho hum. The pre-federation Captain idea was far more interesting but hiding the actor under all that make up and hiding the character under the Krall charade really hurt it.
This blaming marketing as if that was the only problem Beyond had, or the only thing fans and critics didn’t like, is a tad silly and dishonest. You aren’t merely a victim of circumstances dude..
Marketing wasn’t super, I agree, but it didn’t promote a different movie than the one they have created.
I don’t remember interviews from lin&Co being that great promoting it either. You gotta ask yourself why the audience should’ve watched your movie or buy the dvds. Why beyond and not one of the many alternatives.
The thing is, even the good reviews might have not helped creating a good word of mouth when the movie was described as being a nostalgic tos episode that ignored the first two movies by JJ. It may have backfired.
Just like some fanboys here, he might believe that catering to certain trek fans only is key to success, or that apparently no one liked the first movies or those people will get excited when you keep on making it seems you made a movie that ignores the first two and caters to some old school fans only. You only get what you ask for, and it may not be what you expected.
@Jemini
okay, this is getting bizarre. it has become really bizarre now if you think making the romance between spock and uhura the forccus of Beyond would somehow have made the film turn into twilight at the box office is borderline dwelling on delusional. are you are nearly there on the delusions
The only bizarre thing is your grotesque response to my comment, lol. Are you sure you are actually replying to me?
It seems like you have a personal agenda against people who like s/u and using it as a pretext to randomingly and personally attack me when it has nothing to do with what I said.
Gosh, Beyond surely must have some quite defensive fans around here..but trying to derail unwanted opinions by making such blatant straw man arguments is embarassing and makes you pathetic.
I’m not even offended by the silly attack. I’m offended by how lame your attempt was when I, honestly, think I deserve a better trolling attempt than that.
Ps: twilight though.
Probably it’s obvious and I don’t need to specify it, but this was a response to the nick name ‘Loka’, lol
btw, I’m almost flattered by the fact you didn’t even comment the article and this is the only comment you have made, or this specific nick you have used made.
Oh and since you mentioned it: s/u are hella rad and I 100% approve it. Got a problem? If aside from hating me for my opinion about beyond, you also hate me for being one of the people who apparently outraged you by liking the romance, I can only be delighted.
Then they achieved the intended effect. S/U was clearly intended to appeal to a younger female audience in an attempt to “broaden the tent.” Not a bad idea in theory anyway.
oh I like S/U. I am just not obsessive as you who feels the needs to attack mccoy and throw venom at karl urban because from your POV he is getting in the way of S/U.
You also dont really talk about star trek, people have asked you many times that what makes a good star trek movie and you have never answered the question because you dont care about star trek what you care about is s/u, you could care less about the star trek mythology and how well it is done in film.
so tells us. what makes a good star trek movie? tells is in great in depth details. surely a star trek fan like you must be able to do so?
@loka
I don’t think you ‘care about star trek’ as much as you just want to troll, that is obvious. If you disagree with me about Beyond do that, but this childish putting arguments in my mouth I never made in attempt to ridicule and derail my point is simply pathetic, not to mention useless. I get you like Beyond, but you are having an over the top exaggerate reaction here. You are literally replying to someonelse here because I never made those arguments and you pretending that I did in order to derail my actual points, that annoy you, won’t change the content of my actual comments.
Instead of being silly you could talk about what makes a good Trek movie for you (I actually do that constantly, but it is obvious you don’t read my comments you prefer to project your own cr*p on what I say). You could talk about why you liked the movie so much that the mere fact someone is criticizing it is making you lose your mind. But you aren’t doing that. You just want to troll, and not even in a creative way.
I like the S/U dynamic too and in fact I think its nice TOS characters FINALLY get a real romantic couple like all the other crews from TNG to Enterprise. I have no issues with their relationship.
But yes the constant attack because someone gave Urban more scenes is ridiculous. It had nothing to do with the film faltering, especially since that seems to be one of the highlights why people liked Beyond over STID. You would think Star Trek is only about these characters over all the constant moaning about it. Most of us here care about the bigger picture.
She is really obsessed with it to the point I think most just skip her posts.
Tiger2 I’m no more obsessed than YOU and other people here are about what you like, and your taking it personally and getting super defensive over challenging opinions about it (as your responses clearly show). Laughable that you are now accusing me of doing what your fellow Mccoy/original trio fans are doing with their Zoe Saldana/uhura bashing since years now. Of course, you have no issue about that but want to make me the mean one just because I dared to say something negative about Urban playing the victim about the other creative team. However unintentional from my part, it is a taste of your own medicine.
And I get you don’t like me pointing up that they sidelined Zoe/Uhura, or my being annoyed over repetitive original trio fans endlessly whining about this trek not being like tos. But the constant derailing is silly and just makes you sound immature, not to mention contradictory (you keep saying you skip my posts, yet here you are constantly paying attention to them and replying to them..)
I have the right to express my opinion no less than you. You can only disagree with my points and stay in topic if you like, but you can’t tell me I shouldn’t post my opinion because you disagree, which is what you are essentially doing with your straw man arguments and personal attacks.
Tiger: honestly, I don’t even get why my comments about Urban and beyond annoy you so damn much and make you so defensive, especially when people here constantly express opinions about these movies far more negative than mine, not to mention more mean towards actors or the creative team(s). Even when it comes to repetitive arguments, I surely don’t have the monopoly of that, and as someone who posts in this site since a while now, you should be used to that. Especially when you are too guilty of that.
You are the only Mccoy fan, it seems, who gets disproportionately defensive over my comments. Maybe others, unlike you, are able to skip them just like I skip those of certain reboot haters here whose comments I already know, but you call me obsessed all the while making it seems the one obsessed is you. That and the fact you take it personally and can’t accept my different opinion, but ask me to accept yours (and not take it personally that you prefer Mccoy when I already said, over and over, that this isn’t the issue for me).
Not offended over your comments. I don’t care you don’t like McCoy that much, but you seem to think everyone else should feel the way you do for some reason. Clearly few if any does here. Stop name calling people who see it differently. They went a different way with Beyond, one that seem to work for most people since no one else is remotely bothered by the fact he had a bigger role. He’s just a more fun character than Uhura, that’s not a shock. But maybe if they make another movie they will have Uhura in a bigger role again if Saldana comes back. Crisis over. Calm down and stop taking it so personally. You take anything against Saldana as a slight, its bizarre. And the attacks on Urban are ridiculous. And no one reads all those lengthy essays. I just skim through a few sentences at this point.
Tiger, I don’t dislike Mccoy. Once again you miss my point and which side of the fandom I have issues with and their rather specific arguments. And you are taking it personally, your response shows that.
Besides, I was never the one who put Uhura and Mccoy into a competition: you guys are doing that since years with the whining that she has replaced Mccoy when it wasn’t even true. That contributes giving the impression that the team behind beyond tried to placate these people by sideling her to give him more screentime, and this isn’t a good thing for a franchise that wants to be so modern and progressive. The mere fact they had to put her aside to give him more says a lot and clashes with your belief that he’s universally considered more interesting and popular than her. That, and the fact she was still promoted as one of the leads, instead of Urban in spite of him getting more screentime.
I’m hardly the only one who complained about these things and how much the movie went backwards. There are people who didn’t even watch it.
I’m unsure why you think YOU are speaking for the majority especially when what you say flies in the face of the fact that beyond is the least successful movie of the 3.
” no one else is remotely bothered by the fact he had a bigger role.”
Seems a wider statement without substance, unless you truly read every review and talked with every single person who watched the movie. You also seem to confuse, or make it mutually exclusive, the fact that people can be OK about Mccoy but STILL don’t ask him to get screentime at the expense of the new dynamics this trek had and/or the only female character.
Can you point to anyone else that is talking about it outside of you? Sure I’m guessing others may agree with you but that seems to be a pretty small minority.
I like Uhura, but I wouldn’t miss her if she was gone. I would miss McCoy though because both his role as a doctor and a friend of Kirk and Spock is more vital to the dynamic. I can understand why they went this way and it worked just like the show.
But yes if they went back and gave Uhura more to do, its not the end of world either, OK? I do agree they need more female characters but I guess in their mind Jaylah was that character who had a vital role in the film and she actually seem more popular than Uhura but thats just my opinion.
I wouldn’t mind seeing her back either.
Tiger, I think it is pretentious for you to suggest that the comments section of this site represents the whole audience or a majority. Reminds me when Orci said that they know only 1% of fans post online (when some folks here were trying to use the same argument you are using).
Frankly, if you were to look at this site alone, the reboot was a flop and no one liked these movies or the majority didnt. Perspective.
There are the official pages of the movie (Facebook, Twitter. .. including that of the actress whose fans were complaining) that get more comments than this site and where others had said stuff similar to what I said, sometimes with a language far less polite than mine too tbh. Many over twitter, Tumblr and other sites were complaining, for example, when Zoe wasn’t at the fan event or when it seemed like only the men were filming scenes in Dubai. Some media outlets were criticizing them too for that.
I read people saying negative stuff about beyond I don’t even agree with. For instance, those reviews claiming that Uhura was sidelined were right but not to the extent they claimed she did ‘nothing’ when, actually, her role was more important than that of most of the guys (eg she sacrificed herself to give the ship a chance. She discovered the villain’s true identity, she speaks the voice of starfleet and its values contrasting and challenging his pov. She keeps her cool in the face of an extremely stressful and traumatic situation better than a vulcan. She saves Spock).
It is also funny you can’t accept anything negative being said about Urban and Mccoy all the while you keep being passive aggressive about zoe/uhura with these ill disguised delusional attempts to say no one cares about her, or she’s less important than the guys (and even other female characters now lol. You ain’t subtle). You aren’t even trying to be objective here.
I’m unsure why you seem to want to suggest that Urban is more popular than Saldana or that the majority of the audience shares your opinion and considers her character less important. First, you have no idea what Uhura represents to many, and how that inevitably and naturally goes beyond liking another male character and another male friendship when there are many. Second, your assumptions are contradicted by the fact that the first movies are the most successful and even for Beyond, she’s still promoted as the third lead regardless Urban getting more screentime than her. If the old trio and Mccoy were so much more popular, why still use her image the most? Why she’s the one interviewed the most beside Chris and Zachary? Why she is the one getting awards noms for trek?
I also disagree with your generic and reductive equivalences between some things here. E.g., there were some reviews who were OK about Mccoy getting more screentime but still complained that Uhura got sidelined, and they still lamented that the movie went backwards with the dynamic that was unique to JJ’s trek. They did that in the same review.
You can’t equate people liking Mccoy to them also automatically liking Uhura and the new trio less or not at all. Or them having no issues over certain aspects of the movie, when a lot of reviews pointed them up.
It’s like you saying that the critics and fans who were happy about the kirk-uhura-spock trio in the first movies (and the comics series) hate Mccoy or the original trio. Maybe spending so much time in this board made you think that some things are mutually exclusive, but for those out there they aren’t.
I also get the vibe you are trying to claim that no one liked the dynamic from the first movies and Uhura’s upgraded role, when this is itself false. I’m here (meaning the reboot fandom, not just this site) since 2009 and, using your own argument about beyond, ‘the majority’ was more than OK about it or even loved it. Even those who liked Mccoy and wanted more of him, weren’t asking – unlike people in this site – to get that at Uhura’s expense. That’s just stupid.
I dunno know how you can claim that McCoy’s role as a doctor is more vital to this trek than Uhura’s, btw.
Her skills are more key to the general plot than his, and she has a more active role in general. Mccoy’s role as a doctor isn’t made more relevant than that of the other characters and their job on the ship. I could argue that Scotty had been more vital to the plot with his skills than Mccoy.
Or you claiming Mccoy friendships are more vital to the story when Spock’s relationship with Uhura is more important to this Spock’s character development. Even the Spock/Mccoy scenes in beyond were in large part about Spock’s relationship with her (and his friendship with Kirk).
McCoy’s only real friendship is the one with Kirk and I love it, but it undeniably gets, at fault, sidelined both by canon and promotion in favor of the kirk/spock bromance. After kirk/spock, the romance has consistently been the dynamic that is more talked about and focused on in interviews too (guess why).
Just like other posters here, you are guilty of ostensibly projecting your tos nostalgia on the reboot and overinflating the importance of the male characters over that of the female one, in spite of there being a different dynamic anyway. Your obliviousness over why people like me may find that pretentious, and your pretense that I’m the one being unreasonable or ‘hating’ here, is disingenuos.
true.
as I said zoe has avatar and marvel. Jemini is not really fighting for zoe who is very comfortable and successful as an actress without trek. she is fighting for S/U to hog all the spotlight.
am sure in into darkness she hated all the attention that was given to the kirk/spock dynamic.
now she hates beyond because of the spock/bones dynamic.
she hates any dynamic that puts spock with anyone else but uhura.
this is obsessive.
“And no one reads all those lengthy essays. I just skim through a few sentences at this point.”
Oh that was obvious, what you don’t realize is that admitting that makes you only look even more hypocritical. Replying to comments you don’t read just to attack someone is the definition of making an argumentum ad hominem, which is a sign of you taking it all too personally, and that you are replying to an assumed ‘offense’ (emotional reaction) rather than the argument itself that, by your admission, you didn’t really read.
“You take anything against Saldana as a slight, its bizarre. And the attacks on Urban are ridiculous. ”
Case in point here. You are saying that, apparently, me having issues with the actual bashing Zoe/Uhura is getting since years here (especially people saying that she ‘demands’ more screentime when there is no proof of that
– was that you who said that?) is stupid.. yet, you taking anything against Urban as a slight (which is what you are doing just NOW, and I wasn’t even attacking him now) and calling my criticizing stuff that HE has admitted doing himself (namely the fact he plays the victim about stid, going as far as saying he wasn’t in the movie, or him demanding more screentime) is ridiculous attacks? You sure follow what you preach… Are you his agent?
I read your comments I just skim over them at this point. I doubt most even read them at all. I was only saying stop attacking people who disagrees with you. Thats what it feels like and probably why no one seems to agree with your points.
@Tiger2 Yes, I too just ignore the posts.
Sure, Jan.
You guys are so touchy. People here constantly complain about these movies and certain plot elements since years, and reboot fans got every kind of bashing – yet, the moment you see someone saying something negative about what YOU like, you have a nervous breakdown about it and feel victimized.
I guess I’m doing it right if you contradict yourselves by having a reaction over something you claim to not even read…
Still unsure where I was actually attacking anyone, but I guess when people take opposite opinions so personally everything is perceived as being a personal affront.
YEah Holden, looking at another 5,000 word of posts she wrote I may do the same. I usually try to respond to someone who writes me, but this is ridiculous.
You are attacking me/people who disagree with you too, so you can move on this stupid accusation because it’s obvious you aren’t following what you preach.
I wonder how my first comment here was attacking other people(or you), btw, when I was just sharing my opinion about the article and a troll derailed it to make the most ridiculous and pathetic ad hominem argument ever. And you are bringing up arguments you read from another page instead of replying to what I wrote here. That’s ‘asking for it’.
Let’s be honest, you are trying to repeatedly shut me up because you disagree with me (and you want to only see the opinions you agree with so that you can pretend – as you are doing – that they are the majority). You aren’t being subtle. This modus operandi isn’t new to this site either as it is what drove other fans away and made it so insular through the years, and more limited in its audience than other trek fanboards.
But you will deal. Just like you won’t stop liking and disliking what you want, and expressing your opinions and preferences, I won’t stop doing exactly the same thing – especially when I’m not going against the site rules, and the mods don’t seem to have issues with my comments. You are only free to disagree, if you want, but other than that you can’t give yourself a role you don’t have.
Yes she is obsessed. she is calling me a troll. she attacks me not the message. she can never tells us what makes a good star trek because she does not watch star trek. she will never watch the next star trek movie if S/U break up, in fact she will hate star trek.
Jemini please tells us what makes a good star trek
Very obsessed. Over one film at that. I don’t want S/U to break up either but it wouldn’t really bother me. I doubt it would most people.
Rotflmao at ‘you hating Urban because it gets in the way of s/u’. Perhaps you are projecting your own insecurities on me and replying to yourself rather than to me.
However, you using s/u fans to attack people who don’t like Beyond as you do is really silly. You can’t serioustly blame Beyond’s lack of success on the s/u fans now.
I think of all the people who didn’t like the movie, s/u fans hardly are the ones here or in other sites who bash it so I don’t understand why you can even try to blame them, unless again you just have a personal vendetta against people who like that pair (that is obvious from your modus operandi).
Personally, that relationship was the least of my issues with the movie saved for certain complains I have about the writing that aren’t specific to one dynamic but all the characters. I criticize the fact that Uhura got sidelined (and I won’t stop talking about it just because it annoys you or anyone here, and you pathetically attempting to derail my very valid points with silly claims that I’m a ‘jealous s/u fan’. It just makes me want to do that all the more tbh), but I also have issues with how the kirk/mccoy friendship was handled. However, it is useless for me to state my opinion since you don’t read it and you just want to troll. So happy trolling, I guess.
“so tells us. what makes a good star trek movie? tells is in great in depth details. surely a star trek fan like you must be able to do so?”
Of course, it is hilarious though that a nickname that apparently posted here only to troll about shippers is asking ME, someone who has extensively talked about trek in this site through years (and wrote articles and reviews about it elsewhere as part of my job) , to tell them in ‘in great in depth details’ what makes a great star trek movie.
You can’t ask people to give you the kind of content you are obvioustly unable, unwilling and uninterested to give yourself.
Why don’t you teach us how it’s done? Teach me about the star trek ‘mythology’ and how well it’s done in Beyond (advice: if it is too hard you could Google it and copy and paste what others had said instead of having your own opinions, it wouldn’t be the first time trek fans do that)
Genuinely interested to read what this nickname of yours has to say, beyond your using me as a random pretext to attack fans of a fictional couple you dislike.
It’s not a great movie Beyond. Bad marketing simply compounded the problem.
I have not watched Beyond more than about twice I think…
Same here. I didn’t care about getting the dvds with all the extras, I just got the first version I found that was on sale without hurry.
Stid had issues too and even JJ admitted them, unlike Pegg and Beyond’s apologists who are making any sort of excuses now.
um, am sure zoe has a bigger fish with avatar and guardians of the galaxy. that makes more money than trek. she is not crying to bed about if she is getting sidelined when she is not even, because she had just as much screen time as the others in beyond.
lol. its not about zoe, its about McCoy and spock getting more scenes together than S/U. that is what is pissing you off.
please even those that like S/U like me, all know beyond was a better portrayal of the romance.
it is only obsessive people like you that think into darkness was better because you just assumed they had more scenes. it is not about the quantity dear, its about the quality.
Beyond by an overall majority is a better quality movie than into darkness and a better portrayal of the s/u romance you seem to only care about when it comes to star trek discussion
Sigh, I’d love to be an active participant in this argument you want to drag me in, but I really can’t pretend to have opinions I don’t have and never shared just to make you happy.
I just never made these arguments. That which is proved by the fact itself you keep pretending you are replying to my opinions, but you are unable to directly quote from my own posts what I really say and talk about.
That’s the definition of being bu*thurt and making straw man arguments to derail the discussion because you don’t have real arguments to make. For instance, you can’t prove me wrong about the fact that beyond is the least successful movie of the trilogy.
I like s/u but you are the only one here who is talking about that relationship and making it the main point when my original comment didn’t even mention it. You can keep making assumptions, but I already stared my actual opinions that contradict what you obsessively insist is my opinion. I never said stid is a better movie either, so I don’t know what to say about that. Again, I can’t pretend to have opinions I don’t have just to give you a reason to disagree with me.
Btw, your posts seem to still use your own resentment over beyond’s lack of success as a pretext to attack s/u fans, not to mention derail the discussion; first, you are pretending that everyone who has issues with your favorite movie must be a silly bu*hurt s/u fan only but then, on the flip side, you want to use s/u fans to support your argument that beyond is the best movie too when you claim that ‘all s/u fans love beyond more’.
Delusional anyway. A lot of uhura and s/u fans actually had issues with Beyond, and for reasons that are 100% valid (some I, personally, don’t even agree with but still valid). They clearly aren’t the only fans who didn’t like the movie as you do, though.
Interesting you are ignoring, don’t seem to have issues with, other people in this page who too have negative opinions about beyond. That makes your ad hominem argument against s/u fans all the more obvious (you attack only me because you got the sense I like that dynamic in my defending Uhura). Trolling and not even doing it well.
@Tiger, and other trolls who have issues with my opinion
Here’s the thing: if Mccoy fans and original trio fans are entitled to complain about the first movies focusing on kirk-uhura-spock more instead of being like tos, I don’t see why Uhura fans who feel she was sidelined in beyond compared to the other movies aren’t entitled to their feelings and opinions TOO.
You guys need to get over yourselves because it’s beyond pathetic you keep accusing other fans of doing what your fellow bros fans are doing SINCE YEARS.
Further, it is both amusing and ridiculous that you want to get so defensive and take it personally for few comments against Urban that criticize him, after years this fandom is saying every kind of sexist and racist stuff against Zoe, and you justify it and patronize fans who have issues with it.
Guess what? Karma surely likes to show people’s hypocrisy for what it is because Urban is the one who actually did what you accuse Zoe of doing since years, but I guess since he’s a man he gets a pass or is entlitled to demand more screentime when he isn’t Kirk and Spock and never was. Nor he’s DeForest Kelley.
If you expect me to feel sorry for pointing that up now you are wrong.
@loka & @Datamat – agreed. Beyond sort of was like Star Trek V to me, it had elements that were the best of the series but over-all it just needed more time in the oven.
But lousy marketing impacted its opening and early showing. It was never going to be a long-term box office success in theatres, And didnt a big film come out right after it? It needed to make more money in the first two weeks and the marketing hurt that chance.
loka, Jemini, and Tiger2 time to move on now. This whole comment chain is getting uncivil.
Thanks,
TM admin staff
Marketing? You mean Paramount marketed this? I had no idea.
Seriously. The main US poster seen in theaters didn’t even say Star Trek or have any of the actors on it.
Great celebration for the 50th Anniversary, eh?
It makes me think that Paramount’s big issue with Orci’s stories (I think he submitted 3, didnt he?) were the Star Trek references, namely Shatner but likely many others.
It jives with what Pegg said early on about the studio feeling Bob’s work was “too Trek-y”. They didnt want the 50th Anniversary Star Trek movie to be too Star Trek-y. Absurd.
They don’t seem to know what to do with Trek at this point. We need a Kevin Feige for Star Trek over there. Someone who has the trust of the studio leadership and really gets the franchise.
well, they had harve bennett in the 80s but then he got blamed for V being so bad.
Well Rick Berman is a better comparison. Bennet made a few films for seven years, but Berman ran the entire franchise for nearly twenty creating four shows and multiple films. Eighty percent of the franchise was under him. Yes I know others didn’t like everything he did but he ate and slept Trek like no one’s business.
But Star Trek really felt the most whole at that time. Star Trek WAS a shared universe back then. Its not as centered as MCU and was more focused on TV than films, but it was there. Today, not so much because of the IP divide. I mean take Alex Kurtzman. He created both the Kelvin movies and Discovery and yet he talks about them as two completely different entities because as far as the corporation is concerned, they are.
Thats the real problem. Until the two come back together, you’re not going to have that type of overseer.
Berman was great for Star Trek for most of his run. I think he got so comfortable that he just wasnt going to right for much anymore.
For Insurrection, the story got lost to the stars’ wanting to sing and dance and romance yadda yadda. Voyager wasnt awful but didnt support its premise and ofcourse Enterprise.
But Berman was the right role. Just needed to be handed to someone else after First Contact at least.
The other problem is, as fans we want all iterations to respect the franchise. For Berman it was pretty easy because he came on for TNG and almost everything after that point sprang from the look, feel, rules, canon of TNG.
If you’re Joe Blow today taking on Star Trek, its probably not in most people’s habit to be the Guru of a franchise but having a lot of creative handcuffs on you.
I say that, not really agreeing with it though. If I was a Hollywood type, I’d love to do it. But Im not and I get why a guy like Kurtzman doesnt want to be hired to make more Rick Berman shows.
I agree with most of this. I never had any real problems with Berman JUST like I don’t have any real problems with Abrams and Orci and now the show runners of Discovery, even if I still disagree with they are doing. I just get everyone has different mandates, bosses, creative outlooks, etc. But I understand everyone is trying to make the best product possible.
Berman gets more attention obviously because he just did a lot more than anyone else, including Roddenberry himself who at the end of the day did about five seasons of Trek with all of TOS and first two seasons of TNG (and even then TNG actually had a different show runner he just had the final say on it) and made one film, TMP.
Berman definitely stayed on too long and people always cite Voyager and Enterprise but I never saw him only at complete fault but I think most likely he was just handcuffed on what he could do with those because they were on a network. He had a lot more leeway with TNG and DS9 and WHY DS9 had more creative license than Voyager did and when he was literally overseeing both shows. DS9 was syndicated, the writers did what they wanted. Even Behr recently said they were able to make DS9 serialized and got away with stuff because no one was looking over their shoulder like Voyager. Voyager and Enterprise had to fit under the UPN brand and mold so I get it. Of course its not to say he can’t be blamed for anything but the situation was just different and he just played along to keep his job like most people.
But for me he did more good than bad and admittedly I like all the shows, although as I always note Enterprise took a loooong time to accept but I finally did. The films are definitely more of a mix bag for me and Nemesis is easily my worst film in the franchise. But what’s funny is Nemesis was a response of what everyone hated about Insurrection and even did things like bring in new people to Trek so it could feel more fresh and it still failed.
I don’t envy ANYONE to try to run this franchise frankly. Sadly people are looking for you to screw up more than succeed. As I been saying for years I don’t get why anyone tries to even make Star Trek anymore? They just get pounded on. I bet Berman doesn’t miss any of that.
Another thing to consider is that when this new blood comes to Star Trek they always feel it needs changing.
When LucasFilm hired people (JJ etc) to work on Star Wars, they painstakingly ensured the new films adhered to the rest of the franchise.
Its a bit easier with Wars because its fantasy but still, they didnt change key elements just to be different. If you want Star Trek to be different, make a new sci fi film called something else.
Yep. Just the Enterprise and ‘BEYOND’
I mean WTF.
Can’t say that nerd-attractin’ title of “Star Trek”
Idk about the usa, but where I live and when I traveled to UK and Paris for work, posters where everywhere and the trailers and promos were adequately showed.
I had access to some things before they were released too, and I know marketing actually had more stuff than what media outlets and press chose to use when they promoted the movie (Asian media used it better)..it wasn’t all that interesting but it promoted the movie as it was.
The international posters definitely seemed better than the US ones, but the other big problem was that a lot of the trailers and promos didn’t start running until pretty close to the release date. There was a very long period between the first teaser and when they finally started putting out other trailers and posters. Trekmovie wrote some articles about it at the time, if I recall. In comparison with Into Darkness, Beyond didn’t seem to get nearly as much of a push from the studio.
Paramount totally screwed the 50th Anniversary over. It’s like they forgot it was coming and decided, oh wait, maybe we should do something for one of the biggest, longest running franchises of all time. Even with rejecting Bob Orci’s stories, they should have been well prepared for it. They do not know how to handle the movies – and it shows as there have been more misses than hits.
I agree they didn’t use the 50th anniversary more but at the same time, I don’t know what they could’ve done more.
I also don’t think the lack of promotion for the anniversary is a huge culprit when it comes to failing to capture more audience because, let’s be honest, only old trek fans would care about that anyway.. and trek fans are a minority in the audience. Definitely a missed opportunity for sure, and it is indeed lame and silly they didn’t use it as expected. But still, the bigger picture is more complex than that.
Its tied to what happened with Orci. Until Bob provides details (which he’s teased a few times) we wont know for sure, but his story sounded like a larger epic that paid homage to the franchise in a way the studio didnt like but since they also didnt want it to be “Star Treky” and barely used those words in marketing, we can probably guess Orci’s story was far more appropriate for a 50th Anniversary.
If I had anything to do with Star Trek I’d find a way to get rid of or minimize Simon Pegg’s role in anything at this point. He doesn’t really seem like a team player. He seems really whiny and attention-seeking, actually.
I don’t know what role Pegg really played with ‘Beyond.’ Maybe it was all Jung’s work on the script. But he’s been doing the PR rounds for RP1 lately, which is why he’s suddenly in the news, and giving his honest opinion when Trek comes up. He hardly seems attention-seeking, especially given he’s one of the few people associated with nuTrek who’s never starving for opportunities to begin with (hence the Spielberg call). “Team Player” just sounds like code for “doesn’t do or think what I want him to.” Which reminds me, where is *anybody* else from the production team on STB these days (meaning, producers, directors, co-writers, etc., and not just the front of camera stars)? If they want to offer their thoughts, I’d love to hear them as well.
I give Pegg credit for being willing to criticize the studio. His criticism’s are valid. And sure, he might not look critically at his script but he’s hardly the first writer who felt their work was great (in fact, if a writer thought his script was lacking, he’d improve it).
People forget that these actors (and writers etc) are doing PR, either for Trek or other projects and are being asked questions. Its like when Fuller would talk about Discovery and people would complain, why is he always mentioning gay characters or women leads? Because he’s being asked.
It isn’t that, but he comes across as a bit childish and someone who can’t admit his faults.
He also is inconsistent. I remember him attacking fans who didn’t like stid, but then once he became a writer he said he has issues with it too.
His response to George Takei not liking their choice to make Sulu the gay character was very condescending and crossed the line in his basically telling a gay man of color that he should be grateful for the representation and ‘homage’ (I personally loved it, but Pegg ‘I made sure to imply Scotty was dating a woman in a deleted scene’ is disingenuos when he makes it seems any character could’ve been chosen, including his)..and yes, he plays the victim.
Writing a script is a lot of creation by committee. You fight for some ideas and scenes to stay in and you may not win some of the battles. Also, polishing the script as you’re filming drives the 1st AD nuts. The actors aren’t fans of it, either. When changes to dialog are being made, actors sometimes add their input as well. Directors then take the script and “maim the baby.”
It’s frustrating for a writer.
I really enjoyed Beyond.
All of Star Trek is desperately in need of a creative showrunner, a Pablo Hidalgo type that can manage all of the assets (comics, tv, movies) and put them into a cohesive whole. It’s needs somebody with a vision but also respects and gets what Star Trek is. It needs Ron Moore. That’s my vote. That’s why I hope this merger occurs.
Absolutely. I’ve been saying the same thing for ages. a Kathleen Kennedy to over-see the whole operation.
It needs to be someone who’s job is to do Star Trek not someone with 50 other projects either.
You hear a lot about ‘new blood’ these days, but to be honest, my Dream Team would be Ron Moore, Nick Meyer, and Ira Behr. Put those guys together and magic will happen.
I don’t get this same drive with Nick Meyer so many do here. And apparently neither do his current Discovery bosses who seemed to have driven him away from any real creative decisions on that show. Don’t get me wrong, I like him, but he made a few movies decades ago. I mean TUC was over 25 years ago now. But I agree with Ron Moore and Ira Behr who did a LOT for Trek in general and of course a big reason why DS9 turned out so great. Yeah I would love those guys back running Trek in some fashion as well.
The mystery of Meyer and Discovery is still something people wonder about. Hopefully one of the Trek sites that do stories can look into it and ask the question we all want answered lol
Yeah, I mean why doesn’t someone just call up the guy and ask him if he’s still involved with the show or not? And if so at what capacity? Its just funny to me fans keep throwing his name out as the future of Trek and yet he supposedly HAS a job on a Trek show right now! But yet you would never know he was there since he’s been credited with nothing outside of ‘consultant’. He hasn’t been interviewed since the show actually started and no one ever brings up his name from the show runner or producers who go out of their way to praise the caterers on the show.
My only guess is once Fuller left Meyer was sidelined. Or maybe his ideas just never gelled with the show they decided to go with. Or at least let him direct an episode? Its just bizarre arguably the most famous Trek filmmaker on that staff and no writing or directing credit anywhere.
I think thats the answer, when Fuller left, the new showrunners didnt want/need him. It just surprises me how often his name pops up and you have multiple Trek websites that do interviews, cover events and none of them have done a story about it.
Makes me wonder if there is a reason…
Just not Kathleen Kennedy for the love of Q. I have no interest in seeing Shatner come back simply to sacrifice himself for Captain Mary Sue.
I really liked Beyond. Way better than Into Darkness despite being rushed into production. The Paramount marketing really hurt the box office. The trailer attached to Force Awakens probably cost them well over $150M alone! All the studio execs who made those decisions are long gone from Paramount.
Beyond was a classic case of great execution of the story but could not find the audience it needed due to poor marketing decisions. It would have easily made double what it did with better marketing & a better release date (early May works best for these type of movies).
The only big 50th anniversary promotion Paramount did was get the main actors into a QA after Leonard Nimoys dedication ceremony.
Pegg deserves another chance at screenwriting the screenplay was solid so were the ideas but also having a $185M budget meant they threw a lot of money @ VFX like the enterprise destruction why not just disable it for the entire movie & have the crew stranded on the planet but somehow find a way to fly back onto the Enterprise on a shuttle & power her up again would have cost way less & made a more effective story. Destroying the Enterprise was too soon it took TOS prime almost 20 years to do that!
There are movies with bad marketing that are more successful than Beyond was, especially when they get good reviews.
So I’m really not convinced by this excuse that it was only marketing’s fault.
This would make more sense IF those who post online and liked it represented all the audience, and if those who watched the movie had all liked it. What the audience says and chooses to watch is expressed by bigger numbers and this movie, even with its positive reviews, was liked less than even stid is. It didn’t affect just the immediate box office results but other elements too such as the scores it got from critics and audiences online, the DVD sales, and the number of second/multiple viewings it got compared to the first two. All these things that even in a moment when marketing should’ve been overwritten by good word-of-mouth still gave lower results. The dvds thing alone is telling because there are movies that don’t do well at the box office but then become popular thank to dvds sales helped by good word-of-mouth.
Beyond got a good word-of-mouth that may actually be overinflated by those who liked it too because, in the end, it didn’t really have a significant impact on the majority of the audience of these movies, both the existing and potential one.
Some of you need to reconcile with the fact that is is the least successful of the trilogy because it was liked..less.
You are correct. The JJ movies prove that quality Trek appeals to a small but extremely passionate audience. It’s not meant to be a mindless summer popcorn flick for millenials. Discovery’s entire business model shows that at least CBS has learned how to best monetise the franchise.
“It’s not meant to be a mindless summer popcorn flick for millenials [sic].”
Stereotype much?
No, that was literally the audience they were going after. One doesn’t hire Justin Lin to make a space opera.
It’s funny that Pegg blames the marketing team, but it was the director, Justin Lin, that cut that trailer together in the first place.
So Pegg can’t really blame Paramount for a choice the director made. Lin even defended it in interviews after people complained:
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-trek-beyond-director-justin-lin-defends-trailer-after-fans-criticise-its-fast-and-furious-feel-a6775086.html
“Well, it’s a minute and a half, you know… And again, there were other versions that were much more traditional and I can see where maybe the hardcore fans could probably see that as ‘Oh.’
“But with trailers you’re putting a two-hour movie into a minute and a half, and the one thing I wanted to make sure is that it hopefully represents that we are trying to be bold and take risks, whether we are successful or not, I don’t know.
“When I saw the teaser, I’m like aw s**t. You really have to put the motorcycle in there? So I get it, I get it, I get it” — Lin from same article (and this is the one Pegg is talking about).
@Jack still, I can’t help but find it a bit bizarre for a director and writers to complain about the trailers using stuff that THEY have put in the movies themselves. It almost, almost, sounds like they wanted the trailers to create hype with lies. Take that motorcycle scene..don’t tell me it didn’t seem self-serving from Lin’s part as some kind of homage to his other works… What he expected. I dunno, it just seems disingenuos to me.
trailers are sometimes compiled by the marketing department at odds with the production team’s wishes.
the director of the last ‘terminator’ was not asked about the trailer adding a major spoiler and was not happy about it pre release.
As I recall, the 1st trailer had nothing to do with Lin, Paramount contracted it out to a 3rd party marketing outfit.
YEah that first trailer, as I and others have said time and time again, is what I REALLY think scared off a lot of people. I mean for *me* it was the first time, EVER, I had ever been put off by a Star Trek trailer. And not only that, but when you see how great the first trailers were for the first two Kelvin films you have to wonder what happened?
The first trailer for the 09 film will probably be one of the most simple but genuinely effective way to get across Star Trek was coming back. And it showed NOTHING outside the saucer of the Enterprise and Nimoy’s voice. I mean I STILL watch it lol. STID was a lot more traditional, very actiony but it still invoked a Star Trek vibe, just darker and smart making the villain (yeah I know) the centerpiece of that trailer. It really got us talking about the mystery surrounding it and built up genuine excitement.
Beyond just felt extra flashy and frankly shallow. It didn’t capture anything special about the franchise or characters. And yeah they were clearly going for a more fun, Fast and Furious vibe. Thats why they hired Lin in the first place. But their instincts were completely wrong about it. Now the second and even third trailer were great, but it took TOO long to make another one. By then I think most people had made up their minds frankly.
Tiger2 I still remember that trailer. I agree it was the best and so effective. I have to find it again now, sometimes I forget how good promotion of that movie was.
Yeah that first trailer was amazing. It gave nothing away but yet built up interest like no Trek film ever did. I just loved its simplicity but gave me goosebumps at the same time.
And yet that same trailer you folks love told me that this had nothing to do with TREK, showing an overliteral building of a starship on the ground. If you’d delivered the same content while having objects assembled in a zero-gee ballet, you could have played Kansas’ BORNE ON WINGS OF STEEL (which is what they needed for ENTERPRISE’s credits, to at least give the impression that they were building toward something like real STAR TREK) over it and I’d have been there opening day, because at least the core of the thing would have been correct and honest. As it was that trailer confirmed every concern I had … when I finally saw the movie on video, except for a couple minutes in the first reel, I didn’t like a damned thing, and can say almost the same thing about ID, which is nearly as bad.
How does it have nothing to do with Trek? It was making the point the future was beginning. That space was calling. I liked that it used the audio from famous quotes about man’s beginning into space travel and ended with Nimoy saying the famous final frontier line. It was a book end of where we started and we ended.
And you also have to remember they were still making the actual film. That trailer debuted nearly a year and a half until it opened. That was just something to let people know a movie was happening. All the other trailers were made long after filming wrapped in the sequels.
But if you don’t like it, thats cool of course. But to me it felt like Star Trek.
If the producers and the studio had not lied to me about all three of these re-boot movies, I may have been more receptive to seeing Pegg’s ST movie.
But as Scotty himself said, ‘Fool me once…’.
How did they lie? OK, Khan yeah but what were the others?
“finessing the dialog, the character interactions, the motivations“ I am convinced I watched a different film.
Honestly, it seems like they cut a lot of the interactions and character motivations..didn’t add them. Kirk and Spock’s dilemmas? Would it hurt if they actually explained their motivations a tad better? Spock and Uhura break up and get back together. .and it all happened offscreen, her perspective basically doesn’t exist. Talk about keeping things private…
Spock remembers he is a survivor too late and it doesn’t make much sense anyway so they don’t bother elaborating why he stays, ditto for Kirk who is tired of space because of reasons and then he isn’t anymore. Not to mention the villain. .
Then there is Sulu. .they give him a family who lives in yorktown but delete the one moment where he explains why they are there and how guilty he feels knowing that Krall wants to destroy the base.
No wonder why we didn’t get a novelization.
I thought Kirk’s annoyance with how mundane space travel was to be somewhat aggravating. It actually sort of defeated the idea that Beyond would be more like an episode because the excitement of TOS was that the ship was on a 5 year exploration mission with new wonders all the time.
So this Enterprise is one a 5 year mission of…exploring friendly worlds nearby?
Its a hold-over method of doing these films from what they did in the first two with showing us a “new” young crew but wanting to trade on the emotional impact of what we know of them 20+ years later from the TOS films.
In Beyond, its a moping Kirk drinking with Bones to throwback to WoK where his reasons for mopiness are for more understandable.
Honestly, I get the 3 years later thing but they destroyed the ship and made them tired of space right when everything I wanted to see was them finally exploring space, lol. That was fast. The first two just left them at the beginning of the five years mission so seeing the end of it in beyond comes across a bit like a joke.
It sort of seems that they never feel confident there will be a another movie so they want to make the films really concise bottle stories.
I agree. Just let the Enterprise be far from home, out of communication and come across something interesting. For a film it does need to be a “big” story but universe-threatening things dont have to happen next door to Earth.
A crippled ship far from home is interesting. Even destroyed in Beyond, they were close to a silly-design Starbase and were able to use the Franklin to get home pretty easily.
How about a story where they barely survive ans the ship is damaged and they are years from home…and it ends optimistic but still “out there”
They were trying to shoehorn Pine Kirk into Shatner admiral Kirk.
It wasn’t the marketing, it was the weak script and the Fast & Furious direction. It just wasn’t that good.
What is ‘Fast & Furious’ direction? Was Justin Lin somehow genetically modified to excel at directing those movies? He didn’t even create them. Directors are allowed to be involved in a large array of movies. My only real issue with Beyond was the modified Enterprise just to make its neck more vulnerable to Krall’s kamikaze fleet.
Motorcycle. Action Movie. Two-dimensional villain.
These films are as canonical to me as the films of Dr. Who with Peter Cushing.
I love those two Cushing Who films. And… the Kelvin-timeline films *aren’t* canonical, except within the universe of the Kelvin-timeline. So… What?
Well thats not entirely true. The 2008 film is a unique prequel/sequel. the film opens in the Prime Universe (moments before nero comes through) and a later sequence “flashbacks” to a time that is a Prime Universe sequel (the Spock/Nero/Red Matter stuff)
Agreed, TUP. The first Kelvin film was really pretty good. Especially the opening sequence. If the rest of the film had been as gripping as those first few moments, the film could have been fantastic.
@Danpaine – I can’t agree more! The Kelvin was so much better than everything that came after it. Ship design, uniforms, the darkness and grittiness. It was great.
I only wish it had been the TOS/TMP Enterprise with April instead of the kelvin. That would be a ballsy way to start the new film franchise!
TUP – I never even considered using the April Enterprise instead of the Kelvin. That’s would’ve been epic.
It struck me immediately and I could be wrong but Im sure I recall JJ or someone (maybe BobOrci can confirm) that it was an idea…but the studio had one rule – you cannot destroy the Enterprise.
My theory about the two JJ movies is that they are defined *entirely* by their respective opening sequences. The Kelvin sequence in the first one is so perfect and powerful that the audience goes with the rest of the movie, despite generally being mediocre in many respects. OTOH, the opening Volcano sequence of STiD is so unrelentingly stupid that it alienates people, despite the fact that the rest of the film (up til the end) isn’t really that bad.
I like the Cushing films.
The “Sulu” thing was completely unnecessary.
It was a very worthy idea. In fact, an idea long past when it should have happened. But unless you knew he was supposed to be gay, there was nothing to tell you that. It was a chickenshit way to pat yourself on the back for an idea you never really did out of fear the homophobes wouldnt like it.
Spielberg just confirmed there might be an Indiana Joan. So I’m thinking it’s high time for a Jane T. Kirk!
There is one in the comics ;)
To this day it STILL amazes listening to that clip with Simon Pegg how inept Paramount is. I mean he said they didn’t want to change the release date even after everything was shot to hell when Orci left BECAUSE they wanted it timed to the 50th anniversary. Even to the point the poured in extra money to get the FX done faster and everyone working overtime to make sure it was done by July.
But then didn’t bother to remotely advertise the fact it was the 50th anniversary. I mean…what? I don’t get it, they CLEARLY wanted to take advantage of the anniversary but chose to avoid promoting the anniversary. I get that companies do certain things and sometimes we don’t always realized how complicated something is in a corporate structure with so many things have to be approved when we are just armchair quarter backing everything but THIS makes no sense. Who made that call? Especially when they were so adamant the film had to open that year???
I don’t think Beyond would’ve pulled a Sky Fall and make a billion dollars or anything but it would’ve made the film feel more special and got more people to check it out, especially Trekkies.
And what’s funny is when you look at all the previous anniversary films, you see how well they capitalized it and why the those films were the biggest hits in their perspective franchise. TVH came out during its 20th anniversary, biggest TOS film hit to this day. FC came out during its 30th anniversary, biggest TNG film to this day.
And then sadly there is Beyond. A highly rated film, in the middle of the summer and yet it bombed. Only the second Trek film to ever bomb at that. Just makes you wonder.
They seem oddly scared that the Star Trek brand is a negative. Either give it all to CBS or let Disney buy the entire franchise!
There was a time I would have liked to see Disney buy the rights to Star Trek too, TUP – especially after Rogue One – but I’m not so sure these days. Despite great box office, the last two ‘trilogy’ films have alienated hardcore fans, especially The Last Jedi, and some would say bum-rushed (killed off) two iconic characters for no reason other than to introduce new (and arguably much less iconic and interesting) new characters.
But at this point in the Trek movie franchise, we’re kind of looking into an abyss, so I can’t totally disagree with you. All I can say is I’ve enjoyed most Star Wars films many times (yes, even the prequels), but I’ll never watch The Last Jedi again.
Literally the only homage to the anniversary was the star trek 5 group photo in beyond. With Shatner and all the rest of the original movie cast. That and the enterprise A.
I want too see the new Enterprise A explore strange new worlds. Would not be surprised if beyond is the last kelvin film. Beyond made little money.