Jean-Luc Is Back In ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Poster

CBS has released a new poster for Picard ahead of their Star Trek panel at San Diego Comic-Con next weekend. In the poster, the retired admiral looks out over his family’s vineyards with a new companion — a pit bull with a delta tag on the collar, and a planet shrouded in clouds and orange light.

An admiral and his dog

It looks like this canine is also the Admiral’s second in command, so to speak…when you zoom in, the delta-shaped dog tag bears the inscription “No. 1”.

Number One?

The inclusion of the dog, a pit bull specifically, is a nod to Sir Patrick Stewart’s love of fostering pit bulls. He fell in love with Ginger, a “pibble” he was fostering for a year, and shared many pictures of his time with her on social media.

Stewart is fostering a new furry friend named Emma, who made an appearance when he teased a Picard script back in April.

The planet

The planet seen in the poster seems likely to be Romulus, which was destroyed in 2387 — as shown in flashbacks via Spock Prime in Star Trek (2009). Alex Kurtzman has said that the destruction of Romulus would be a significant influence on the character of Jean-Luc Picard, so it seems fitting.

The destruction of Romulus in Star Trek (2009)

Hopefully we will learn more next weekend at Comic-Con during the big CBS Star Trek Universe panel. Keep checking TrekMovie for more.

Keep up with all the news on the Picard show and other upcoming Star Trek TV shows here at

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Temecula looks great! Is the dog named Number One?

I was thinking Livingston.

Yes, it’s on the name tag. After the photo shoot, he took Number one for a number two

I can see the MAD MAGAZINE special edition issue, which they are still publishing, cover now…

Is it Temecula? I know that they filmed the vineyard stuff for All Good Things there, but I hadn’t heard if they were going back for Picard.

I’m assuming vineyard shots are in Temecula, which is closer to the studio. I suppose they could be shooting in Napa ….

The dog is called ‘Stains’?

Nothing about Temecula is great. I had to live in Riverside (Northern Hell) for 3 years, it is where all the bad SoCal air goes when blown inland to mix with all the basement-created drugs.

Does anyone else notice there appears to be a face inside the circle that is suppose to represent a planet? It is in the right side of the circle near Stewart’s face. It looks like a cat or maybe a Reman.

Looks like a Borg face to me.

Locutus of Born

It is clearly a bunny rabbit!

It’s Jesus…

I thought it looked like a bird. Which would work within a Romulan theme.

There are…four…faces!

Is the pup’s name Mr. Woof? 💓

Mr. Woof doing a Number 1. It all makes sense now!

We had a rescued pittie named Worf in the ’90s. We figured (correctly) that even as a member of a warrior race, thought by some to have a “genetic predisposition towards hostility,” he would be able to live peacefully and honorably among humans.

Very nice. Looking forward to this quite a bit, and moving the timeline forward.

I’m guessing Riker gave him that collar. It fits with his sense of humor.

Nice Idea :-)

So Q turned Riker into a dog?

Well, I certainly can’t think of any other explanation for that collar.

Picard just needs a Number One to order around. Any Number One….

I’m 99% positive Jonathan Frakes will make an appearance, if only to hear Picard call his dog “Will”

Since Frakes will be around to direct episodes anyway, I wouldn’t be surprised if he makes a small cameo. Maybe something similar to Janeway’s cameo in Nemesis.

Can someone tell the props dept. or whomever that not Literally Everything has to be shaped like a delta shield! There are other shapes and designs here people!
Very cool poster though. I loved that Archer had a dog so cool to see Picard has one too.

Think about how many trinkets, ornaments, articles of clothing, etc either have or are in the shape of the american flag. The more I’ve thought about it, it kind of grounds it in a sense of reality where I could actually see that being a thing.

This worries me. I want to see Picard, not Stewart further transmogrifying the character into an extension of himself. His ego already made an august man of letters into a semi dumb action hero by the time the show wrapped. Now suddenly Picard likes dogs? When was that ever mentioned prior? There’s a reason why actors are actors, and writers are writers. Read the behind the scenes books and Piller and Berman had a hell of a time trying to deal with his dire input in the movies.

Picard loved horses, why wouldn’t he love dogs also. After losing his brother and nephew to a fire a dog would make for great comfort when returning to the family home.

You know, there may be some valid things to be concerned about with this series. Might be. We’re barely heard anything so far. But Picard “suddenly” liking dogs isn’t one of them. It’s been twenty years since we last saw him. People change.

Just because you never saw him with a dog on TNG doesn’t mean he never liked dogs.

I get the concern. It’s not about having a dog. It’s (potentially) about turning Picard into Patrick Stewart (which we ultimately saw with Kirk/Shatner).

It already started to happen in the movies.

So Stewart has a Pit Bull. And now so does Picard. It seems minor but raises the question, how else are they making the character more like Patrick Stewart and less like Picard?

It might turn out not be a big deal. Maybe it’ll be superficial stuff like Picard in cowboy boots.

And I’m still fine with Patrick Stewart playing Patrick Stewart if the alternative is not seeing him at all. But I get the worry, despite the silly justifications posted here. We’ve seen this before (Stewart got a producing credit on Insurrection, for instance).

They’re also really dangerous dogs.

Like any dog, a pit bull needs to be properly trained. And yes, an untrained pit bull (or worse, one trained to be aggressive towards humans) can do more damage than an untrained poodle. But you shouldn’t judge all members of the breed by the way that some badly treated ones behave.

Just like people, any dog will return aggression if shown aggression, and return love if shown love.

I’ve read and seen way too many news reports of how gentle and loving the dog was…until it mauled the families child to death or got out and attacked the elderly neighbor. There’s an inherent nature in this breed that can be triggered. Not always, obviously, but it can be triggered. Why would anyone with a child ever take that risk is beyond me.

A pitbull’s jaws are also significantly more powerful than most breeds, which means a bite is likely to inflict much more damage.

I don’t have a problem with Picard getting a dog, but I part company with Patrick Stewart on this pitbull activism thing.

Some terrier breeds have intense, strong bites, that can easily tear flesh and break bone, but they are seen as friendlier because they look friendlier. I’m not for or against pitbulls, but the strength of their bite should not be a consideration, because there are MANY breeds with the ability to really hurt someone.

Just look at the Chow– one of the most violent, aggressive, and dangerously powerful breeds that doesn’t face nearly the same opposition as pitbulls because it’s cute and fluffy.

Pitbull is a generic term for a wide range of breeds, some which are not aggressive.

And the reason you hear about pits more isn’t because they’re more aggressive, it’s because of the negative stigma against them, and they do more damage than other more aggressive breeds.

If you look up statics on dog attacks, you’ll find that pit breeds are not highest on the list.

They are potentially dangerous dogs. Before the scumbag dogfighters got a hold of the breed, the American pitbull was regarded as a perfect dog for families because of their gentle nature and patience with children. The “Petes” used for the Our Gang and Little Rascals films were pitbulls. Most pitbulls are gentle and friendly and responsibility breeders have spent the last twenty years trying to undo the damage done to the breed for dogfighting purposes.

They’re also really dangerous dogs.

Meh, the Vulcans say the same about us.

Vulcans give their children pets with 6 inch fangs.

Any dog improperly trained or cared for is a dangerous dog. You cannot just lump a whole breed of dog as “dangerous”. To say otherwise is misinformed BS.

“They’re also really dangerous dogs.”

Some would say, that human’s can be a dangerous breed too.
In fact we are the most destructive species on this planet.
Show them love and bring them up correctly and they can be the most affectionate and loving dog’s you could ever know.

“Show them love and bring them up correctly and they can be the most affectionate and loving dog’s you could ever know.”

The people who get mauled inevitably seem to spout this line about their dogs “until it suddenly attacked me.”

And of course some animals are more dangerous than others. You can’t keep a wild cougar or lion as a pet in most places, and I see no problem with treating pitbulls and presa canarios in the same way.

Again, no dog in this fight (literal or figurative) but i’d like to read those stories: a few i’ve seen were people antagonizing dogs that they didn’t own and who’s owners brought them up as guard dogs.

A couple of other things: 1) Media outlets tend to report attacks by any dog that even resembles a “bully” breed as an attack by a pit bull. It does not help that way too many animal control personnel don’t aren’t any better trained than the media. 2) Whatever the villianized breed of the hour happens to be almost always gets specifically mentioned in the headline, while incidents involving almost any other breed almost always get labeled as generic “dog attack”. Golden Retriever takes off the mailman’s nose? “Dog bites postal worker.” Same thing happens with a pit? “Pit bull tears off postal worker’s face”. So the impact on the public is that you get people thinking, “Well, I never hear of any other breed having issues like this!” Depending on your age, though, you probably have – it was German Shepherds in the 70’s, Dobermans in the 80’s, and Rottweilers in the 90’s. But the news cycle moves on, and pits have been the dangerous dogs of the last decade or so.

Some would say that it’s “humans”, not “human’s” and “dogs”, not “dog’s.”

Agree with you 100%.

Oh, no….here we go.

It seems Picard might be be suffering from PTSD, after the unthinkable happened. Perhaps Riker gave him the dog. It’s a believable situation For myself, to have Picard want a dog.
I’m going to keep an open mind.

Or Deanna gave it to him and Will provided the collar and name.

And when did Picard ever say he wasn’t a dog person? Kirk never rode (or mentioned) horses in TOS but then we got Generations…

And was Patrick Stewart himself a “dog person” in 1987? Perhaps yes, perhaps not. Having a family vineyard most likely means Picard grew up with dogs around (and the French are well-known dog-lovers) so don’t have a cow over it ;-)

I can live with the dog. It’s symbolic of Patrick Stewart meddling already with the character though.

Stewart made that character what he is. He’s earned the right to do whatever he wants as far as I’m concerned.
A few years back the idea of Picard coming back didn’t even seem like a realistic possibility, so this series is just a bonus really. Stewart is 79, he deserves some respect and to have more input on the character. Stewart knows Picard better than any fan.

I was at a convention during or shortly after the TNG movies where Stewart said he didn’t know where he ended and Picard began. So Picard gets a dog instead of another fish. Big whoop.

But is it a French pitbull?

It can’t be, it doesn’t have stupid little bat ears. 😁

Le Worf! Worf! Worf!

Picard had a fish for many years. Maybe in retirement he decided that he wanted a more interactive pet.

You can play fetch with a fish. I mean, the fish won’t enjoy it, y’know…

Do try not to lose any sleep over the notion that Picard loves dogs.

Great Trek pooch! Who’s the bald dude next to him?

Who could have possibly guessed that the cool austerity of Patrick Stewart at 48 would give way to the endearing sweetness of Sir Patrick at 78. Wonderful!

Imagine seeing that poster in theatres back in July 2016.. instead of ..Evel Kirkevel

I’m pretty happy with what we got, and would much prefer a streaming Picard series than a big budget Picard movie. If it were a theatrical release i’m sure Picard would become an action hero, swinging from ropes baring his chest, and wielding a purple space bazooka.

Practically speaking, I’m not sure if Patrick Stewart would really be able to do that at his age.

He’d be better at it at his age than I would be at 47. 😂

@Legate Damar: That’s what CGI is for these days. You just use “a digital double” for anything a real actor (or stunt double) cannot do.

This x 100.

@ Jo: Don’t get me wrong: I was not advocating using CGI to have Picard do ridiculous action. Usually, I find that action that requires digital doubles because it cannot be done for real doesn’t immerse me deeper into the story, but rather takes me out of it. Technically, they could probably use CGI to have Picard do stuff that Patrick Stewart cannot do. Doesn’t mean they should.

was thinking more along the lines of a special 50th anniversary movie that featured Stewart, Shatner with Pine&Co in like an Endgame type timelines extravaganza and they all get those character posters that films gets now and that would be the Picard one.

hopefully that still might happen (Tarantino Trek)

Good lord; fans get upset by Picard with a dog, but ask for a movie like THIS? Thank god the franchise is not in the hands of the fans!

ok you got Beyond then. ok

Yeah, I did, my favorite Trek movie since TUC. I’m pretty happy about that.

well im happy you’re happy

Gotta love a Staffie

Cool looking poster, but I dunno, seems like they could’ve put more of a Trekkie spin on it. Maybe a targ instead. :)

At least it’s not a French poodle and the Eiffel Tower is nowhere in sight.

Full size poodles are apparently pretty badass hunting dogs. Very different than the yapping smaller varieties. I was hopping for an English Bulldog, but as long as it isn’t a French Bulldog (which paradoxically originated in England too), I’m happy.

Yorkies are ratters. Cute dogs, vicious around rodents.

Given the French cliche’s I’m surprised that didn’t happen. I feel like it would have been a poodle had Stewart not been personally keen towards the pit bull.

It really makes ya wonder what kind of a series we’re getting here. It’s beginning to sound like we could be getting a bucket list show. Is it going to be suspenseful? Comical? Thought-provoking? Will it be a mystery? The premise seems very hollow. With the look Stewart gives in the trailer, he almost looks like he’s got mental issues. Why no leaks from the set? Usually we get some kind of Scooby-snack in the first week of filming.

What do you mean the premise seems hollow? We don’t know the premise yet.

The premise seems hollow to him because he has already decided it is. He hasn’t read anything about it i’d bet, and thus presumed the premise was already known, and he could just judge it. That’s what fandom has come to.

He’s decided that it’s hollow because “Midnight’s Edge,” and “Nerdrotic,” the two worst YouTube channels known to Mankind, have said that it’s hollow.

Also, too, Alex Kurtzman is so fired.

We did. We saw set photos of Picard presumably at Starfleet Academy.

I think it’s going to be depressing. Nobody wants to watch depressing Trek, but I’m afraid that’s what it’s going to be. ‘People get old and sad, the end’ kinda thing.

How about ‘people get old, have regrets and are discouraged, but at a certain point realize that their contributions are still very needed and decide to do something about it’?

Speak for yourself only. I would really enjoy a dark, emotionally driven Trek, about a man getting older, and looking back at his past– examining his successes and failures– and looking for one last chance to bring meaning to his life.

Maybe what you aught to do is examine your OWN life, and see why it is that YOU are unwilling to allow for a Star Trek that others will enjoy just because you won’t.

Didn’t you enjoy TNG? Did you enjoy the original movies? You probably did; pretty much everybody did. They were universally enjoyable and universally acclaimed.
Judging from the number of disgruntled fans, Kurtztrek is not really universally enjoyable. Which means it is of a lower standard than previous shows. Isn’t that good enough a reason to complain?

Yes, admittedly, you and a handful of others DO enjoy this sub-standard offshoot of the franchise. Good for you, congratulations. But, if it WASN’T sub-standard, we ALL could be enjoying it. We could be watching and enjoying an actual new Star Trek now, but Kurtztrek is in the way. It needs to die and make room for actual Star Trek made by people with actual genre experience, written by actual science fiction writers. That way, we will get a show we ALL can enjoy, much like we enjoyed TNG and the original movies.

But well, it’s all rhetorical anyway. The fandom is split in half; you don’t have enough people to sustain Kurtztrek with positive publicity, and we don’t have enough people to take it down with negative publicity. So it will have to rot away naturally and die of disinterest, much like Enterprise and TNG movies did. (Unless Michael Chabon can make a miracle and turn Picard into a smashing hit, and that’s kinda doubtful, for he’s merely one decent storyteller swimming in the ocean of hopeless hacks.)

Ah, someone else who likes to think that only what they like is quality. I dislike Game of Thrones, Walking Dead, and Breaking Bad. I loved The Wire, Justified, and am enjoying Stranger Things. But I know people who dislike those shows. You know what I don’t do? Go around trashing shows I like, and the people who dislike shows I enjoy.

No tv show or movie is universally loved. You can decry current Trek all you want and keep predicting doom and gloom, but until it actually happens you’re just another dullard spouting conspiratorial nonsense.

As for “pretty much everyone did” all I have to say is HAHAHAHAHA. Only a moron of the tallest order would think that. MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF PEOPLE disliked or didn’t watch TNG, disliked the original Trek movies. Give me a break.

O come on Boze!

On what basis can you say ‘only a handfull’ like new Trek?

Clearly it’s making a good return for CBS and getting the audience numbers they need to build their base of subscribers.

Discovery has had issues, but also its strengths.

And Kurtzman makes no pretence that every Trek offering should be appealing to everyone.

It seems clear that you weren’t around for the TOS-fan doomsayers that said that TNG wasn’t Trek and would never last.

I’ll say it for the millionth time: if audiences weren’t watching and enjoying it, they wouldn’t be investing in 5 more shows… Big companies don’t invest MORE in something that isn’t working. Look at Paramount and the films: ST09 did well, so they increased the budget for ID. Beyond DIDN’T do well, so they have been trying to cut the budget for 4, which is what’s causing all the problems.

Marvel, as a perfect example, did not start expanding their budgets, and taking bold risks, until it was clear their movies were successful. They didn’t even ANNOUNCE their slate of films until the day after Iron Man’s opening weekend, when it was clear the film was a big success.

The fandom isn’t “split in half”. It’s split, but I’d wager it’s more along 75/25 lines. 75% like CBS’ new Trek, and 25% carry on as if it were the end of the world and their childhoods have been destroyed.

Give us a break. Talk to each other at some “they killed my Trek!” website.

We are not idiots nor corporate shills; we are having fun watching new Trek. We are adaptable. New stuff happens.

Boze, you don’t speak for the entire fandom man, seriously. I don’t love everything Kutzman has done so far but I don’t think he’s the boogeyman either and willing to see where this all goes. But I also had no problem with Rick Berman or even JJ Abrams and the KU. I generally like it all even if I don’t love every aspect of it.

And the one thing I DO give Kutzman credit for is that he DID hear the criticisms of season one of Discovery and made a LOT of changes, most for the better IMO. No it still wasn’t all great but he’s trying to make the show its own and why I am even more excited for DIS in season 3. It doesn’t mean its going to be a hit but I’m willing to see what they do now that the show isn’t just a TOS prequel and can do whatever it wants in the future…literally. Maybe it will still be bad to many but we won’t know until we see it.

“I generally like it all even if I don’t love every aspect of it.”

Perfect summation. Trek since 2009 has been very high quality. Far from perfect, but there’s always something to enjoy, even if it’s just some great action set pieces or strong performances from top notch actors.

After all, Trek pre-2009 was very hit or miss– thankfully the hits were more memorable than most of the misses, and a love of the franchise helped make the mediocre episodes and movies enjoyable to the bulk of the audience.

This is all true. Trek has NEVER been perfect. It’s always been hit or miss since its inception. TOS has tons of stinkers, even in the first two seasons and the third season its more bad than good for me personally. It’s maybe 10 episodes I can even watch from that season now. And all the shows since TOS had mostly rough starts which is why while I gave DIS grief in its first season I also said over and over (and over) again it will probably improve in time as the other shows did as the producers keep what works and change what didn’t. And look at that, that’s EXACTLY what they did in season 2 even if it still wasn’t a complete home run for me, but certainly a large improvement.

Because end of the day its obvious everyone wants to get it right. It doesn’t mean they will or everyone will accept what they are doing but I recognize Star Trek seems to have a learning curve with each new show and film and they try to adapt as much as possible while making the show or film feel unique than the others. Maybe Discovery and the other shows will bomb but its silly to just assume it will because you didn’t like the first two seasons. If that was the case Star Trek should’ve died completely by 1989 after TNG second bad season but crazy enough it thrived after that to give us even more (and some think) better shows. Maybe the same thing can happen with Discovery and the others too.

We all love New Trek !!!!

Seems to me that a little movie called “The Wrath of Khan” did pretty well with that approach, but that may be just my own age talking.

This is why I hate reunion shows.

No, it doesn’t make me wonder at all. The PR would suggest that Picard has a life beyond making long winded speeches on the bridge of a starship. Good for him.

They certainly like using the starfleet delta for everything

Very true. I don’t think it was used in marketing materials for the TV shows and movies until the JJ reboot in ‘09.

You must be joking. The Generations poster and trailer were literally a Starfleet insignia with the ship flying through it. The First Contact trailer was a giant delta made of borg cubes.

Interesting that they decided on a completely bald head, whereas Picard always had the crown.


An interesting observation, I wonder if it’s a personal preference on Stewart’s behalf, or, simply that his aged scalp has depilated to such a state that the crown, in all its glory, is no longer achievable – and a rug would be something less?

It’s utterly meaningless, but when it came to his two most famous roles (Picard/Prof X) the biggest visual difference was that for Trek he had the crown, for X-Men he was completely bald.

I’d say the biggest visual difference was probably the wheelchair.


They didn’t decide on it, Stewart is completely bald now.

Oh, so is that why he’s no longer in Starfleet, because Patrick Stewart isn’t either?

John Wick: Chapter 47

I’m laughing at the idea, but no, just no. PLEASE no.

It wasn’t just a PUPPY.

The dog is french

Yes, but he barks french with a british accent. ;-)

Well of course.

What makes you think that he wouldn’t? Picard likes animals, has a fundamentally kind nature that seems like it would fit with having a dog, and he has a sense of humor.

It’s also very real world: a lot of retirees get pet companions in their elder years.

Exactly. As I plan to.

All too soon in my case.

Facepalm. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel. As for “#1” it’s the fact that it’s his best friend, aka, his “first officer”– always by his side. That makes perfect sense.

Trek has long incorporated passions of its main actors into their characters: Picard’s love of Shakespeare, Crusher’s love of dance, Riker’s love of jazz and the trombone… I see nothing wrong with incorporating his more recent love of dog’s into this character.

I am so much looking forward to this new Star Trek series and every addition to our ST universe! It make me happy to see the series apparently released before the 19th of november! (That is the realease date of the behind-the-scenes book “Star Trek: Picard Official Collector’s Edition” from Titan and I would really be surprised if they release this stuff before the premier). Can’t wait! :-)

I’m still hopeful – but yeah. I still feel the sharp sting of the mambo, Donna Murphy, HMS Pinafore and the Argo.

Not to mention Shatner Kirk and his Great Dane (and much younger, very curvy girlfriend).

Poster looks amazing!

OMG, the 24th century is back!! We got it, thank god we finally got it!!! Get here already comic con, we need info on this show yesterday!

I suspect we’ll get a full blown trailer at SDCC, which will show us the full cast, and the plot, maybe even some finished FX from the premiere.

From your lips to Q’s ears. We need some REAL footage already. Its actually shocking on how much they have held back so far. We got quite a lot of things about Discovery when it started filming, including the entire cast and their roles. We still don’t even know what characters most of the actors are even playing yet.

1) I don’t think it’s a literal planet in the sky, just a circular lens flare that evokes a planet when blended over the clouds.
2) Nice touch reusing LaBarre, France’s futuristic background buildings as seen in the matte paintings for TNG: Home.
3) Just me, or does Picard look a little like Captain Mal Reynolds in his Badass Longcoat and boots?
4) If it’s a serialized storyline, we’ll probably start on Earth for the first few episodes before events (a mystery?) draws him reluctantly back into space.
5) If it’s episodic standalone stories, what’s his role? Galactic troubleshooter? Hercule Poirot of the stars?

Hercule Poirot is a Belgian not French.

And M. Poirot is very particular about being acknowledged as a Belgian :^)

I see what you mean. The continents on the planet match up with the clouds in the sky.

Stewart described the season as a ten hour movie. That would suggest that it is heavily serialized.

Yay! Picard is a Browncoat! He has a little bit of the rebel in ….

To quote Orson Welles: “Mwahhhaaa the French!”

Picard will sell no wine before its time.

OK. That gave me a chuckle. :)

Kind of cheesy, and I think we’ve seen enough of the Vineyard at this point. We get it. It’s important but not that interesting. Can’t wait for something….substantial, finally.

This means nothing to me.

Dog, no dog. Eh. Perfectly reasonable he’d have a dog and it may even end up being kind of fun. But it’s not significant. And shoving the delta shield into everything is a bit tired. But I suppose they might be trying to really promote that for brand recognition to the masses? Hmmmm.

It’s called teasing. These posters are about putting enthasise on the fact that Picard is back. A teaser. We don’t even know when the actual series will debut yet.

We’ll probably get something a bit more substantial at comic-con next weekend.

The problem with the NEMESIS’ Dune buggy wasn’t the use of a wheeled vehicle per se, but rather that that particular configuration in its use, as shown, wouldn’t be any less ecologically disastrous than the real one it was. It made all the “we’ve learned to be better” pontificating the character gave voice to over the years absurd, making him, and the Federation, Galactic hypocrites.

That wasn’t the problem I had with the Argo sequence. It did have problems. But that wasn’t among them. And I say this as someone who overall thought Nemesis was a good film.

I’m not sure where he is, but I think I would like to take my next vacation there.

The last time, they let Patrick Steward actual personality and the things he likes inform the character of Cpt. Picard gave us that Dune-Buggy-Scene in Nemesis. Why does noone seem to get, that the character only worked, because of the people, that wrote him on the original show?

I’ll be bleasently surprised, if that series works. Even more so, if it works as a Star Trek show. But I just can’t see it.


This concern over the dune buggy and the dog illustrate how awful and utterly idiotic Trek fans have become. A complete lack of logical sense. One bad scene influenced because Patrick Stewart likes a dune buggy, and suddenly Picard having a dog is proof they don’t understand the franchise, don’t understand the character; proof that the show will be terrible.

I have no idea if the show will be good or not, but really, give me a break. As if YOU and YOU ALONE understand the franchise and the character and how to make quality TV. Seriously, wake the eff up.

Agree 100%, Afterburn.

Agree as well! This is sadly why fandom can feel overbearing at times. No wonder why George Lucas sold Star Wars off to Disney when every little mistake you make is magnified and mentioned over and over again for literally decades.

Yeah the dune buggy scene was not the best idea, but here as a secret, everyone who has ever worked on this franchise including Roddenberry himself has come up with some stinkers here and there, it doesn’t mean they don’t ‘get’ Star Trek any less than the self-proclaimed fanbase does. Let it go already.

the dune buggy scene was awesome. Star Trek: Fury Road – ‘mr data I think its time for some UNSAFE VELOCITIES!!’ loved dat shit

Lol. Whats wrong with the dune buggy?

It was a bit silly, and didn’t really make a lot of logical sense (why do they need a wheeled vehicle when they have shuttlecrafts and starships, all with advanced sensors, tractor beams, and long range particle weapons? Least they could have done was use it for a sub terranean chase sequence where a shuttle couldn’t go).

All in all, it was kind of dumb, but I agree it wasn’t nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. But it certainly did it’s part in making nemesis easily the worst film in Trek, beyond even STV.

I never got the hate for the dune buggy. Sure, it was kind of dumb, and that was probably the least memorable sequence of the film, but it was fun, and that seems to be as good a method of travelling over the desert as any.

You just can’t see it. Based on a poster. *Does a Picard facepalm.*

You seriously don’t think that Patrick Stewart had input on the character dating back to at least Season 3 of TNG?

Sascha ignores the fact that Stewart’s numerous pre-production criticisms of Star Trek: Insurrection were spot-on. Every single criticism he made to the writers was later echoed by fans when the film was released. In fact, I can only imagine what Insurrection might have been if Stewart’s criticisms had been heeded.

“Wines… the final frontier. These are the vines of the Picard Vineyard. His yearly mission: to produce delicious fine wines. To seek out fresh, juicy grapes. To boldly drink like no man has drunk before.”

Chateau Picard to you, monsieur or madame ;^)

Oh, so they did destroy Romulus. I was beginning to think they had abandoned all concept of a coherent history or storyline. :)

It does remind me of the last episode of the Next Generation, which was probably the best last episode of a series I had ever seen on TV.

“It does remind me of the last episode of the Next Generation, which was probably the best last episode of a series I had ever seen on TV.”

Then you haven’t seen very many final episodes. I can think of at least 10 final episodes that were light years better. AGT for some goofy reason has been amazingly overrated over the years. But I have not drank the kool aid. I have no problem telling it like it is.

No, you’re telling it as you see it, not as it is. It’s often voted one of the top series finale’s in TV history. Mental Floss, Entertainment Weekly, CNN, Ranker (where it was voted #6 by the fan community).

When it’s left off of lists, it often gets an honorable mention, and there are usually comments from readers decrying that it didn’t make the list.

Long story short: it’s a wholly satisfying finale to most viewers because it featured the entire cast, called back to several popular episodes without being bogged down in references, and tied up a lot of loose ends. It also provided a conclusion without saying “goodbye.” With or without the movies, you could enjoy it as an ending.

Objectively the best? Maybe not. But certainly one of the most satisfying and memorable to viewers who saw it first run.

It seems reasonable that many feel they must praise it or they get the kind of treatment you just gave me. This is not the only example of people claiming one opinion in public yet privately thinking something else.

Regarding the reasons you gave… Finales always feature the entire cast. So no special points there. It only bookended the sub-par pilot episode. Watching that first episode was the only real requirement. It tied up ZERO loose ends. And it totally did not feel like a finale in any way shape or form. It felt like they could just be coming back for season 8 the following year. Further, none of our characters really had a challenge in it. No one learned anything from it. No one grew as a character from it. Not even over the course of the series. Don’t good finales need those things?

The following is anecdotal for sure but I’ll add it anyway. A bunch of friends and I would watch TNG while in college. We were all done with school by then but got together for the series finale of TNG. The reaction of every single one of us after it was essentially… “Huh? That’s it? But NOTHING HAPPENED!!” It was unsatisfying and it felt like the show got canceled rather than opted to end. I’ve run into a number of people at conventions who have felt that finale was nothing special and felt like a regular episode. No, it’s not tons but enough to suggest to me that me and my buddies reaction was not rare.

Really what kind of treatment did I give you? Respect for your opinion, and a rebuttal justifying the other’s love for that episode? Oh how awful for you.

AGT was the best finale of the four Berman-era Trek shows in my opinion.
AGT is just a fun time, a bit hockey in the best TNG tradition, but never dull.
It didn’t need to provide definitive closure because everyone knew that the series was going straight to the movies. Generations is really the true series finale for better or worse. First Contact is the true sequel to the TV show.

DataMat, what you say about the show was not really a true finale is correct. They almost literally went from shooting TNG to shooting Generations the next day. It was not the end so thing did not really need to get tied up. Personally I think “What you Leave Behind” was the best of the Berman era. And it’s not even close.

WYLB was good as a finale for sure but I guess because I loved the TNG characters more I found AGT more satisfying.
I’m one of the fewer fans who likes the Voyager characters, particularly post-S3 when Seven came on, but Endgame was incredibly disappointing in hindsight. It seems to have aged even worse since it aired in 2001.

OK. Fair enough. I personally found only Worf as the only interesting character in TNG. I did like watching Patrick Stewart even though he was playing a pretty dull man. I think that speaks to his acting chops more than anything. But the ensuing shows, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise seemed to have far more interesting characters in them.

I can see what you mean. The TNG chatacters are designed as near perfect humans, sort of what most of us would want to be like but really aren’t. DS9 was darker and we all know and the characters in the show were far more realistic to what we as humans are like.
Dont agree about Enterprise though. I really don’t enjoy those characters tbh.
Discovery has a nice group. But the ensemble element I miss. It feels like the Burnham show so far and I feel the series needs to get other characters involved more.

To me the perfect humans were dull. As a result, the character driven TNG episodes I found to be dismal failures while the best episodes focused on Trek like sci-fi situations or on decisions with no good outcomes.

We are some 30 episodes into Discovery and I feel like the jury is still out on the bulk of the characters. Like it or not it for sure is the Michael Burnham show, no doubt about it.

Probably the reason DS9 is one of my favorites of Trek is because of the NON-static nature of the characters. In TNG, there is very little moving forward for the characters.

In DS9, we see Kira begin to mellow, we see Jake and Nog grow up, we see Odo grow to understand others better while dealing with the threat of his species, we see Worf arrive and feel out of place, then get to a more comfortable place, and … fall in love! We see Quark changing for the better, and Rom become his own person. And let us not forget the best villain ever, Gul Dukat, and his descent from arrogance into madness.

Dax is the one who is a steady presence, but she is never boring. O’Brien’s basic nature doesn’t change, but he is a very realistic character [although, Super!Engineer], and what a great apposite for Dr Bashir, “Mr Perfect”! As for Captain Sisko, he is a dynamic character too, and probably changes the most during the show, except in his steady love for his son.

Marja, I cannot disagree with any part of your assessment of DS9. That is indeed one of the things that made that show work. And yes, no one in TNG ever grew. That was part of what made them boring. They were perfect going into it. Much of that I honestly chalk up to Roddenberry’s influence.

S1 and S2 did center on Burnham; I have a feeling we’ll get more “ensemble” in S3; if Kurtzman is seeing and listening to fan commentary I’m sure he has recognized that people want more of that ensemble element.

Every Trek series has had a “star” or a couple of leads, though. Burnham will, at least, always be one of the lead characters in Discovery, if not moving into the starring role.

I STILL MISS JASON ISAACS. I think Prime Lorca’s return to the Discovery or S31 ‘universe’ could be verrrry interesting, too.

Lots of critics at the time gave it very high marks, including USA TODAY’s Matt Roush, who then went on to trash GENERATIONS mere months later. So no, there was no intimidation campaign to support “All Good Things” or else going on in fandom or outside of it, in spite of the reaction you and your friends had. (My Trekker friends and I loved it, which at the very least cancels out your anecdotal “evidence.”) But by all means, feel free to keep making stuff up.

AGT is still one of my favorite TV show finales…period! It ticked all the boxes for me. I’ve seen it over a dozen times. And it still resonates with people today. Even MCU guru Kevin Feige said part of Infinity War/Endgame was influenced by that episode and its not hard to understand what he was talking about, especially for Endgame.

Its certainly fine if others don’t like it, but the consensus seems to be its a finale most Trek fans love and no other Trek show has come close to topping it yet.

Mr. Hall, speaking of making stuff up, which there was zero evidence I was doing, no one said anything about intimidation “campaigns”. I’m not a professional writer so sometimes the more subtle points don’t come across. Try reading it again and think a little harder this time instead of pretending people “make stuff up”.

It ain’t some conspiracy theory, it’s not like drinking Kool-Aid…people just have different tastes. Don’t try to make it out like you’re right and we’re wrong

All Good Things is fine, but it is way overrated. I also don’t like the idea that none of the events of the finale actually happened.

That’s all I’m saying. It’s an OK regular episode. Very much in line with the bulk of the episodes in the show. But the love it gets as a “perfect” or “amazing” finale… That’s just too much. It isn’t.

I have yet to see anyone claim it is perfect. An amazing finale? Yes. It worked far better than a lot of TV show finales, which often fail to deliver a satisfying conclusion.

I’ve heard people refer to it as perfect. But there was nothing amazing about it. I guess a lot of shows fail to deliver on their finales. TNG was certainly among them. There was nothing more satisfying than what was felt in most of their regular episodes. It was a tremendous let down. Were my expectations too high? Perhaps. But I certainly wasn’t expecting pretty much just another day in the office. I was expecting a little something more. Perhaps that was the issue. But even still, nothing of significance occurred in that that episode. Q essentially asked for his IOU but held Picards hand and spoon fed him everything. In the end, everything was exactly the same. Every character was exactly the same doing exactly the same thing. And that is supposed to be a satisfying finale?

It is far from perfect, but it was a very enjoyable and satisfying finale for a long running series. I’m not sure why “something of significance” has to happen for it to be enjoyable and satisfying– that seems to be a more modern trend.

Frankly, I enjoyed the restraint they showed. While real-world reasons are probably because they were transitioning to movies, they didn’t kill anyone off, destroy the ship, or even have a massive space battle (though they could have decided to destroy the ship in AGT to intro the E in Generations, or kill off Data, and resurrect him in a new body, if they’d wanted to).

That it ended “exactly the same” is sort of why i liked it– just like Quantum Leap’s finale, which ended with him continuing to leap, AGT ended with Picard, joining the crew in a game of poker, to say “the journey continues.” I almost wish there hadn’t been any movies, it would have been a nice capper for the cast.

Unlike later finales, which because they weren’t doing movies, all ended with resolutions for everyone. Which works sometimes, but in an ongoing series of a crew on a ship, why should that always be the case? Like I said, that’s why I liked it. Best of the Trek finales, by a mile. DS9 was just resolution to a long story, and was satisfying in THAT regard (but not as satisfying emotionally), and VOY ended with them getting home but was totally unsatisfying as they just get to Earth and cut to credits (terrible). ENT… well, don’t get me started on that.

As for the comment that sparked this conversation, OP only said it was the best finale he’d seen — presumably up to that point. And i’d have to agree with him. All of the celebrated finale’s that had been on TV before 1994 were series aired before my time, or outside of what I normally watched.

“almost wish there hadn’t been any movies, it would have been a nice capper for the cast.”

I like the movies. I’m glad they exist. And they are at least worth it for First Contact (one of the top trek films). And for those that don’t like the movies like you say AGT really does act as a fitting farewell it’s own right and fits right into Roddenberrys optimistic vision of the show.


That’s why I said “almost.” AGT would have been stronger with no immediate followup, but there’s a lot to love in the films. That said, there’s also a lot to dislike. I hardly ever rewatch any of them, even the one good one (FC). Unlike the TOS films, I rewatch TUC and TVH pretty regularly.

I like that DS9 and Voyager actually ended things. None of these people are going to be serving on the same ships doing the same stuff forever. It makes sense to end the show closing this chapter of the characters’ lives and preparing them for the next chapter. Of course, TNG couldn’t do that because of the movies. They did kind of do that in Nemesis though, with Data dying and Riker and Troi leaving.

Legate Demar, Nemesis was TNG’s true finale. It felt like the end of a journey. And it made sense. People do move on with their lives and careers. And I know I’m in the minority on this but Nemesis felt like a fitting and appropriate final film. It was pretty darn good and was completely satisfying end to this crews days together. Unlike AGT. Which had no “finale” feel to it at all. If there were no movies it would have been a total let down after 7 seasons.

“Unlike AGT. Which had no “finale” feel to it at all. If there were no movies it would have been a total let down after 7 seasons.he point is totally moot though. ”

Ronald D Moore and Brannpn Braga, who had the privilege (or not!) Of getting to write both the finale and the feature, knew the characters were going to continue on screen. The film was a guarantee so that’s why AGT didn’t end with some sort of definitive ending.

If TNG had been cancelled and the writers knew or suspected the show was ending for a long time, then I’d hazard a guess they would have given the show more closure with regards the characters.

So, if I understand you correctly, you seem to prefer finales that in the end are just regular episodes. Fair enough. AGT was pretty much a pedestrian TNG episode. There were many much much better episodes but most were rather run of the mill like AGT.

I guess Picard joining the poker game was supposed to be their big moment. But it totally fell flat. I found it to be a “so what?” moment. To this day I do not see any significance in that action.

It is possible to make a finale where things stay the same. The Cheers finale, “One More for the Road” comes to mind immediately. That final shot where same tells the would be customer “we’re closed.” was brilliant. I cannot speak to Quantum Leap as I never watched more than the first 5 or 6 episodes. Didn’t care for it.

DS9’s finale was still the best. Yes, major changes were done but it still very much could have gone on to an 8th season and likely been just as good. As far as the Berman era goes, that was the finale standard they all ought to be going for. Not so much the mediocrity of AGT. Your preference for that kind of finale not withstanding.

Honestly, I would say that All Good Things was one of the weaker finales. TOS and TAS didn’t really have finales, and Dis hasn’t ended yet, but the rest were good. Demons/Terra Prime (the real Ent finale) is one of the best Trek episodes of all time. It has a villain who is the very antithesis of everything that Star Trek stands for, and it actually gives all of the characters something to do. What You Leave Behind had a great ending to the Dominion War, even if the Prophet stuff felt tacked on at the end. Endgame had some problems, but it did what it needed to do and got Voyager home, and had some cool stuff with the Borg. All Good Things was just yet another episode where Q screws with Picard. None of the characters other than Q and Picard really did anything interesting, and the whole anti-time thing didn’t make any sense. The episode was fine, but it wasn’t a good ending for the series.

Legate Damar, I hear what you are saying. DS9 was a great end. Wrapping everything up. Characters moving on and such. It was totally satisfying. Voyager did what they had to do, sure. But that was a finale that was in DIRE need of some sort of epilogue. Perhaps time restraints kept them from it but I hated that final shot. I, too, consider Terra Prime as the TRUE Enterprise finale. Very touching that final shot with Trip and T’Pol. That episode felt like a better finale than AGT. As you said, AGT felt like just another episode. Not only that, but Q spoon fed Picard the entire way. But it did feel like it was appropriate. The final episode probably should be more typical of the rest of the series. A “meh” episode felt right.

Nemesis, the worst Trek film of all of them, is in your mind, the best, most fitting end for TNG? And yet, the emotional tale showing how the future could unfold for the characters, and ending with Picard joining the crew for poker and saying “the skies the limit” as it pans up and out of the ship, is pedestrian… Mind boggling…

I will agree that had Terra Prime been the finale, it would have been perhaps one of, if not the strongest finale.

Worst Trek film of them all? Sorry. That honor goes to the unwatchable Voyage Home. Nemesis was a good ending for the TNG crew. It was a rousing film, Data’s journey came to a close. Picard learned a little. Riker FINALLY moved on. The scene where he said goodbye to JL was surprisingly emotional (with the help of a nice Goldsmith cue). Especially for such bland characters. What was so emotional about yet another timey-whimey tale where Q explained to J-L everything that was going down? All that makes the episode pedestrian at best. To think it better than that is what is mind boggling. The “sky’s the limit” line didn’t feel like an ending. It felt like a segue to them moving to features. It felt contrived.

“sky’s the limit” line didn’t feel like an ending. It felt like a segue to them moving to features. It felt contrived.”

Wow that surprises me. It’s one of my favourite quotes and I felt was about as perfect a final line as could be spoken to end TNG. The final Enterprise shot is also very moving.

“The final Enterprise shot is also very moving.”

Are you talking about the final shot of All Good Things or the final shot of the show, Enterprise? Because that final reading of the Final Frontier monologue was the only part of “These are the Voyages” that I liked.

No I am talking about All Good Things…

But seen as you bring the Enterprise finale up, I agree it was not not an appropriate end to Enterprise the show. Berman and Braga lost touch with the fan-base on that one I think. Their intention was admirable but the result was just making the Enterprise fans angry. Berman could have simply made a special episode maybe to air a couple months later that could been the ‘valentine to the fans’ as they put it. People with brains don’t always use common sense nearly enough. Fact.

I don’t get the hate that Nemesis gets. It was far from the best Trek film, but it was lightyears better than TMP or Final Frontier.

The future timeline in AGT we hadn’t reached until this coming series, which hasn’t aired yet.

Yeah, because if people happen to have different tastes from you that can only mean that they’ve drunk from the poisoned chalice. What a tool.

Says the person who is running lock step with the “AGT was great” crowd.

You said something about tools?

lol, that’s just rude. You imply that if people think AGT was great we are brainwashed tools? You’ve lost all credibility. Someone put the ban hammer on this fool.

And Michael Hall coming out and just calling someone who has a different opinion a “tool” is OK with you? And you yourself flat out referring to someone with an opinion you don’t like as a “fool” is OK too. Typical internet hypocrite. You think such behavior buys you more credibility than anyone else? (eyeroll)

And for the record, I would never call for anyone to get banned no matter what they say. I actually think difference of opinions are a GOOD thing.

Well good for you. I for one, would be elated if you and A34 were gone forever.

I hope this doesn’t mean that anything bad happened to Riker.

He got promoted to Captain in “Nemesis.” “Number One” is a captain’s nickname for his or her first officer; in the deleted ending to “Nemesis” Picard called his new first officer Number One. Now that he’s retired, his Number One is a dog. I’m sure Riker’s fine.

I do wonder if Riker is an admiral by now. He was given a captaincy what, 15-16 years before this is set? Very possible he’s an Admiral, an Ambassador, or even Federation President!

Riker was an admiral in the All Good Things… future timeline. Interestingly Picard was retired in that timeline too, on his vineyards like we’ve seen the posters for this show. So at least some elements from that future timeline are apparently present here.

Rikers dead baby..Rikers dead (picard zooms off on his hover bike with Beverly on back)

Well, he traded in Beverly for a dog. Something bad happened to someone…

Phil, ???
You never know, Beverly may be working in Chateau Picard’s Tasting Room

They might have just lost touch after Nemesis. Beverly was transferring back to Starfleet medical, and Picard was remaining on Enterprise.

”I hope this doesn’t mean that anything bad happened to Riker.”

I’m thinking Riker may have been killed during the Romulan rescue mission. Picard may have lost someone else close to him (Beverley?), but at least one TNG regular will have died in the catastrophe. So it’s either Riker — and Picard names the dog in his honour, possibly after receiving it as a gift from another TNG regular — or someone else, and Riker gives Picard the dog to keep him company in his isolation.

But I think the character that dies is probably Riker.

It wouldn’t be surprising if the pilot has the same vibe as ST09’s brilliant pre-titles section. That kind of heartwrenching tragedy – for the audience as well as Picard.

I concur completely.

Of course you would.

I hope they do not commit the clumsiness of linking this series to the forgettable films of JJVerse.

They already said the Romulus explosion will be part of the show, which only makes sense. But my guess is it won’t go any farther than that outside of mentioning losing Spock.

Given there are Romulans in the main cast, I think the link could go a bit deeper: the premise of the show could very well be Picard trying to complete Spock’s mission: perhaps by finding a way reverse the Hobus event (sci fi shenanigans), or saving the Romulan race and finding them a new home.

Perhaps the superduper nova was the result of something he was involved with? Hence the potential guilt? Just spitballing here….

I actually like the idea of Mr. Perfect now having to live with making a tragic monumental mistake. It would be the first time we have seen him deal with failure.

Lots of ways they can play it. I suspect that while Spock was trying to stop the supernova, Picard lead a mission to evacuate Romulus, or otherwise save the Romulan people should Spock fail. But they BOTH failed, and now Romulus is gone, and he has to live with the deaths he could have prevented.

As for “never dealing with failure” he always felt guilt over the death of his best friend, and the loss of the Stargazer. And though it wasn’t his fault, he still felt guilt over not being able to stop “Locutus” and the borg.

Actually, it seems like he did very much contribute to the defeat of Locutus. Like he said he would resist to his dying breath. Lesser men would not have been conscious enough to even get the message, “Sleeeeep, Data….” out. And again, you hit the nail on the head regarding how perfect he was. “And though it wasn’t his fault,” The scenario I presented very much COULD be his own fault. Which makes it much more interesting.

How does that hit any kind of nail on any kind of head? It illustrates that he feels, he has guilt, for things that aren’t even 100% his fault. That’s far more complex and interesting to me than someone who royally screws up.

It’s why I never really felt anything for Janeway, a character that was constantly screwing up, who made bad moral decisions in almost every episode, and never seemed to reap any consequences. She’d speak of her regret, but would continually repeat her bad decisions.

Your comment hits the nail on the head because he DIDN’T make a mistake. You just said it wasn’t his fault. Perfect people don’t make mistakes. Royally screwing up and then having to deal with it is a far more interesting state of mind than a perfect person who did everything right but feels guilty because someone died through no fault of his own. In fact, such a feeling under such circumstances only contribute to making him even more perfect. A lesser person would be more content that they did everything right and not be as bothered by the death as JLP was. I found Janeway more interesting because at least she MADE bad decisions. Picard never did. She was far more human than Picard ever was.

So what did you just prove? Nothing of import. Someone who screws up and deals with the consequences is not, in and of itself, interesting. Nor is someone who DOESN’T screw up in and of itself interesting. Janeway was a boring character with zero flavor. Her best came when she was interacting with 7, not when she was screwing up and dealing with consequences (dealing with consequences was not her forte– she just screwed up and ignored the consequences).

Picard, even in his stoicism, was far more compelling.

Most people find Picard to be an interesting character. You don’t. End of story.

I showcased how you made my point for me. In this context, it was indeed something of import. I wouldn’t say “most people” find Picard more interesting. I think it safer to say that TNG was the more popular show over Voyager, however. At least there is some data to back that up. Picard made Janeway seen like a nuanced character filled with depth. The only thing that made Picard watchable was the acting prowess of one Patrick Stewart. And even that had limits.

What was your point again?

His point is, he likes to argue. That’s pretty much it.

I feel like if you have to ask then you will never understand.

I understood your point, which was utterly pointless in bringing up.

Apparently you didn’t understand because just a few posts up you asked, “What was your point again?” Further, if you felt it was pointless then why bother asking? Just move on.

“Given there are Romulans in the main cast, I think the link could go a bit deeper”

Wait has this been confirmed anywhere??? I have not heard anything about the casting other than the announcement of a few actors from a few months ago and nothing suggested they were playing Romulans. Now, maybe they ARE but where are you getting someone has been cast as a Romulan?

If so this is great news IMO, but I’ve heard nothing about it.

Though it wasn’t officially released by the studio, there was a detailed cast breakdown that circulated some time ago, that seems to be accurate.

OK, but thats still not official. Could be accurate, sure, but I still want an official word.

@Tiger2: If I saw correctly most if the principal cast of the Picard show will be at San Diego Comic Con. I expect that we will find out about their characters then.

Oh yeah, I think all our questions will be answered next week with both the premise of the show and who the characters are. Its still crazy it took this long to even know what the show is about but its finally coming thankfully.

I have only heard actors names, too. Nothing about who they are playing. There has been speculation and a few have mentioned something about character bios being released. But even if that is accurate I sorta feel like waiting until more “official” announcements come along.

Yes I want more official announcements too. And yes that cast list that circulated could be right but we ALSO know stuff do change. Discovery made several character changes even after they were officially announced. Mostly things like name changes but some had even bigger changes like Lorca who went from just a Captain with PTSD to a secret MU character by the time Issacs was cast. So who knows how much has changed even if that cast list was official at the time.

?…..your statement is not logical. You call the JJVerse “forgettable”, yet you remember it and reference events in it that you remember…?

Ha. Good one.

It would be clumsier if they did not acknowledge the destruction of Romulus (which took place in the regular, “Prime” Star Trek universe).

I agree, and thus have no objection to it being used in spite of my belief that Trek 2009 was just godawful. If the destruction of Romulus plays well (or not) as a dramatic springboard for this show it will be because of the talents of the people involved in its production, not because of a movie that came out a decade ago.

Lest everyone forget that the character’s story in “Chain of Command Part II” was heavily influenced by Stewart’s personal interest in Amnesty International. The franchise has a long history of incorporating the actor’s personal interest into their characters. As I said in another comment, Riker’s love of jazz and the trombone was directly influenced by Frakes, Doctor Crusher being a dancer was because McFadden was a dancer.

So give it a rest with the dog please. The Argo wasn’t a problem because it existed, it was a problem because it was poorly done. In general, that cast was not well suited for action, yet they kept shoving action set pieces into the movies.


Which is precisely why I’m 99.9% sure there’s gonna be tiresome & forced anti-Brexit “parable” in this… Probably some of the surviving members of the Tal Shiar (muh Russians) trying to get Vulcan (the UK, more specifically England) to leave the Federation (EU), or something like that.

I have to agree. I assume climate change and eradicating orange politicians will also be included, somehow, in the script.

I’d definitely be for both. And they don’t need to make the politician orange; pretty much any villain would be an apt metaphor for the guy in office

I’m still sad the President of the US isn’t Trump in the Marvel movies. Because if he were, he’d be building a suit to become a superhero, because he never would have been able to stomach a fellow billionare like Stark being more revered and more heroic.

He’d be tweeting up a storm about what a disgrace Stark was, and how HE is the real hero. In fact, he’d probably say “Stark was no hero. I like hero’s that don’t get captured!”

That would be amazing! I am alll for a Marvel movie like this lol

He totally would be building a suit to become a superhero, but sadly he can’t because of his bone spurs.

His suit would be far less poseable, causing severe bodily mutilation everytime it bends or folds. I cannot say I don’t find the images and sounds of him trying to move around in it most appealing.

Once again this community does not fail to disappoint. They released a poster and a sizable percentage of folks here are already complaining about a show they haven’t seen any footage from. The dog argument is a bit pointless until we know how the dog gets used in the show. Porthos wasn’t exactly a dominating presence on ENT, so why are we up in arms about this dog (…whom, btw, we know NOTHING about)? On top of that, their is complaining about Sir Patrick’s acting before we’ve even seen one F***ING scene. Seriously folks, just calm yourselves. How about we wait until the first episode airs before we start trashing the dog or Sir Patrick’s portrayal of a character that has had 20 years to age and grow into a new kind of man, shall we?

And to think I was expecting all the fans to be giddy over this image like I was, because it showed Picard, without — what I thought– anything else to get upset about!

I’m actually a little surprised at how much conversation was generated by that dog.


Slow Trek news lately.

Still– why the dog, and not the trenchcoat? In hindsight, i’m surprised nobody got fixated on that, predicting a Han Solo-like adventure! “Since when does picard wear boots and a trenchcoat!? DAMN YOU KURTZMAN!”

I don’t know about the coat, but Picard did wear those boots when horseback riding on the holodeck. A nice touch.

Good catch…

Well, Porthos wasn’t on the poster, so…there’s that

Porthos “wasn’t exactly a dominating presence”? Were we watching the same show? Archer had repeatedly endangered the ship and/or his crew members for the sake of the dog. ;)

I’ve been surprised by how low the reaction has gone.

For my own part, I find the poster cool and interesting.

I’m not a dog person, so it doesn’t do much for me, but Picard having an animal companion once he’s retired seems obvious and a natural growth of his character… something he couldn’t allow himself as a captain, and enjoys when he can.

Data’s cat was a recurring plot point…why not a dog for Picard?

I know. I hate dogs. I can’t stand them. Nevertheless, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that Picard would have a dog. I don’t get the issue.


Maybe, Legate Damar, it’s because in the 24th/25th century mankind will have evolved above the need for such antiquated concept as keeping a living, sentient animal as a mere “pet”. (For those who cannot read between the lines, this was dripping with sarcasm)

LOL, I am a cat lover myself, and think a cat would also suit Picard because he is a rather meditative person when not taking action on the bridge. Personally I can see him with that big ol’ volume of Shakespeare and a cat curled up beside him. And perhaps, a dog at the hearth, or on the other side of him.

Plus a dog suits admirably for walking the fields and that different kind of happy, active companionship.

”Once again this community does not fail to disappoint.”

The main reason is that hardcore fans of any particular subject tend to include a lot of people with Aspergers, and it seems that a lot of people commenting online have the condition. Star Trek is particularly notorious for this, although many (not all) commenters on Game of Thrones fansites are currently writing daily online essays burning their own house down.

Comes with the territory. Objective constructive criticism is fine, and it’s always thought-provoking to read, but the main thing is to realise when something more pathological is going on. Best not to get sucked into “conversations” where the people involved are fuelling each other’s toxic negativity and clearly enjoying the misery.

That is actually the best summation of the phenomenon ive seen. Well played, sir.

Nice. A simpler explanation, ‘know your audience.’

logical. flawlessly logical.

“It seems that some creatures have the capacity to fill spaces you never knew were empty.” -Jean Luc Picard, “Pen Pals”

Oh, god, Picard has a dog. So now we know why the test screenings were such a disaster, Kurtzman should have full well known that Picard was a cat person!! This is why the shows a disaster of epic proportions, and why Alex was fired!! Good lord, it’s all over the internet!!!!!

Yeah, that’s how rumors get started. As long as the dog doesn’t have fleas, everything is fine.


In the 90s, Stewart had a cat.

So did he only pretend to like cats back then or does he only pretend to like dogs now? Because you definitely cannot like both!!! Unfortunately, he’s an actor so we will probably never know for sure because whatever he says about it might just be acting.

Well, this poster is more proof that (some of) the fanbase will continue to bitch about everything Trek.

Bitch about a bitch…

My god, if the dog is a mother dog, imagine the cries of horror that will go up from certain quarters ….

Looks riveting.

Picard is scratching his butt in the photo.

I keep hearing this scary voice in my head, “We’re going to build a new Trek, and it’s going to be HUGE!!”


And it’ll be YUUUUUGE in GINA!


I guess, Tiger2, for more people to get it, we should spell it JY-NAH!

Yeah probably true. And that spelling is a bit more accurate. ;)

Best. Trek. Ever. And Picard is a stable genius, too. Covfefe.

Suh-weet! :>)

(taps on screen) Ah, now eventually you do plan to have star trekking in your Star Trek series, right? Hello? Yes?

Still don’t see why that’s critical. A Star Trek series set on a planet/colony would still be Star Trek. Besides, Discovery is set on a ship that travels, so i’m not sure what your beef is.

No beef. It’s a joke. A parody of Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park. Of course they’re going to eventually show us some space stuff.

You know it is possible to poke fun at the shows you like, right?

It’s hard to tell if it’s a joke when a) it’s not a good one b) it is not clear it’s referencing anything b) so many people around you are criticizing the show seriously for silly stuff.

There are probably Deltas on the toilet paper as well.

I want a Star Trek prequel set in the 1734 or earlier …
The Sailingship enterprise is traveling by the stars. What nobody knows… the strange guy who just joined the crew is an Alien stranded on earth. Of Course a Member of a well known Star Trek Species… propably a Vulcan.

Later in the show humans get abducted to an Alien Headhunters ship who is there to huntdown the alien.

So its Star Trek… we have Vulcans, An enterprise traveling by the stars, Spaceships and some foreshadowing. Maybe Q could take a look and ending his episode with smething like “Its too early.. i will be back”

hehe… seriously. Why the fuck not!

I don’t know anything about the show, but all the casting announcements have been for crewmembers of some ship. I’ll be interested to see how much Picard’s winery locale plays into the actual series. It seems like, for all the emphasis on it in the promo materials, it could just be where someone important convinces a retired Picard to take one last mission

Maybe the show runners can make a subtle change to have the hobus star being such a threat make sense? A Super Nova threatening the galaxy? That drove me crazy…if it had been the romulans own star that was the problem, it would have been easier to swallow.

I think part of the issue is that, for the story to work, Spock needed to have a reason to deploy the red matter even after Romulus was already destroyed.

I thought the “threatening the galaxy” part was the political ramifications, or that the Hobus super nova (wave?) was somehow travelling FTL due to something to do with subspace, but that it was left unexplained was a bummer. It still bothers me that in Generations when the Soran makes the local star go nova the Enterprise only runs away at warp one which I thought was the speed of light, so they were just ahead of it. Also, why ever go only warp one? :)

I think it was a case of it somehow causing a chain reaction via subspace, the explosion we saw destroy Romulus was the Romulan sun exploding due to the influence of what was happening to the Hobus star, not a blast from that star itself.

I’m beginning to believe Midnight’s Edge. This looks NOTHING like the TNG era.

How so? We didn’t see much of the Picard vineyard in TNG, and I’m sure they’ve made some changes, but the vineyard looks more or less the same. Other than the vineyard, we haven’t really seen much of the setting of the new show yet. Also, keep in mind, this isn’t the TNG era. This is about twenty years after Nemesis.

Khan is awakened and sent to destroy Picard in his vineyards.The name of the episode? “The Grapes of Wrath of Khan”.

As a TNG fan, I’d be disappointed if it ‘looked like’ TNG.

20 years past Nemesis and more past the movies, aesthetic trends will have moved on, technology will have advanced and, above all, people will have grown and changed.

For me, really caring about TNG characters means wanting to see them grow and develop, and to be their best selves in overcoming adversity.

They can’t do that if they and their world is frozen in time.

Agree completely TG47,

Which is why so many of us want to go forward in the first place. We want to see the universe grow and advance, not stay stagnant. That’s why going forward is always a better approach to me. I don’t mind some of the aesthetics to look familiar like what they are doing with the uniforms but I don’t want it stuck like its 1990 all over again no more than I wanted Discovery to feel like 1968. But where they went wrong with Discovery is they not only ignored the time frame completely they made the show feel more advanced than stuff you saw in the TNG era.

Ironically if the Picard show looked like how Discovery did in its first season, I would’ve been completely on board with it. So much of Discovery’s bridge just felt like an upgrade to the Enterprise E I doubt anyone would’ve blinked much. Spore drive would’ve fit right in as well.

Discovery should’ve just been post Nemesis from the start but I’m glad they finally realize that now at least.

A Klingon war wouldn’t have worked post TNG though. Not without Martok either betraying his allies, or him losing the chancellorship to Toral or someone. Even then, the Klingons just wouldn’t seem that alien anymore after a century of peace.

Thats the thing though, I don’t think anyone was pining for yet another Klingon war in the first place. Maybe some, but I don’t ever remember hearing a loud chorus of fans saying they wanted to see a Klingon war. Especially since they already did it on DS9 (and BETTER), I don’t think we needed another one. Now if it was GOOD then maybe it would’ve been worth it, but it wasn’t IMO. It was actually the opposite to me: lifeless, boring and unnecessary.

Agreed Tiger2, I can understand how the lack of technological and aesthetic continuity in a prequel placed just before another series is more problematic than a show set 20-25 years in the future.

And as we saw with the Enterprise in the S2 finale of Discovery, it IS possible to find a reasonable compromise.

I find many of the unreasonable expectations about the Picard show echo the outrage of some of TOS fans in the 80s. Even moving forward a century wasn’t enough for them to accept that Starfleet had moved on.

I was a fairly dedicated TOS fan from childhood, and had friends who were part of the official fanclub network. So, I felt pretty plugged-in.

The fans I knew didn’t expect TNG to be TOS, and for many of them TNG supplanted TOS in their affections.

I would hope that there would be as large a base of open minded long-term fans as the new offerings roll out.

Yes season 2 of Discovery certainly at least fell in line more with TOS in terms of the aesthetics and look but the technology was still waaaaaay above every Trek show to date, especially all the hologram stuff they just went overboard with, time traveling suits and etc. It proves while they can certainly get the look a lot closer to what we know, but updated, they still have the tendency to make the show feel too far advance for this era and probably why they decided to shove it so far in the future in the first place.

And what you said about TNG and TOS is exactly how I felt at the time. I didn’t expect TNG to be TOS because the time jump was so great (and no one on the ship was related to anyone ;)) the expectation was to expect something very different, which is what we got. But with Discovery there seem to be more of an expectation it was going to be closer to TOS in tone and style because of its time era and yes disappointed a lot of people who felt they didn’t get it, mostly hardcore TOS fans. And thats the problem off the back, it couldn’t just be viewed as its own thing for some feeling it was naturally tied to TOS because of the period it took place in. When TNG showed up, there was no other show in this era, it had freedoms no other show had since. And probably the other reason Discovery is now so far ahead, to feel that way too.

And yes there will probably be people who want them to feel almost like these shows did when they premiered. But it is obvious by the very little we seen of the Picard show they aren’t going to do a complete redesign like Discovery but yes I suspect the technology stuff is going to be pretty crazy if Discovery is any indication. And again they can get away with it more because stuff just advances as you go farther in.

“But it is obvious by the very little we seen of the Picard show they aren’t going to do a complete redesign like Discovery”

And that is the producers trying to compensate where they shouldn’t compensate. Discovery LOOKED terrible because it looked like a 25th century vessel that the audience was told was a 23rd century vessel. So they compensate on the Picard show by NOT overdoing the aesthetics like they did with discovery. The problem is that the Picard show is a show where they CAN overdo the aesthetics just by the fact that 20 years have passed. So in both cases they make production design mistakes.

This comment is contingent on Picard not making many visual changes as many are assuming will be the case. As it stands as of this writing none of us really know for sure.

Obviously we don’t disagree much since I said the same thing countless times. And of course you know my other counterpoint to that since you said the same thing, more people would probably been less bothered it looked so advance if they called it a reboot. But since they didn’t call it that you had to reconcile a 50+ year old show fitting in with this one that is wildly much more advance on every level. Again everyone understands it HAS to just fit in with current contemporary science fiction notions and norms, but it just went so far with it looked like another show entirely and completely out of line with the 23rd century.

But I certainly applaud them for trying harder to make it look a bit more like the 23rd century in second season but most of it is still mostly cosmetic when the technology is still way beyond anything we seen and then didn’t do things many thought they would like lose the spore drive, which they doubled down on instead. But we did get a line why we don’t see Enterprise having holographic communication in Kirk’s time, so that’s something I guess.

Agreed. Especially since Voyager brought back some high-tec from the Delta Quadrant. Although not sure if all of that was easy to reproduce.

Yeah, TNG-era looks are too old.

That’s why the Orville is killing it right now.

HisEminence, I like The Orville for what it is, but its ratings are somewhat limited.

Killing it is an overstatement. I don’t see the ratings to back that up.

Whether we go with the streaming industry trackers, or back out numbers from the increases in subscribers on CBSAA, Discovery is pulling in more viewers on subscription than The Orville is on network TV.

Picard will take Star Trek through the end of the 24th century and into the 25th, providing it gets additional seasons.

I’m looking forward to its being a bit daring.

I think it a stretch to conclude that Discovery is getting more viewers than Orville is. Maybe if you include the Netflix numbers. But if you do that then you need to somehow find Orville’s international numbers as well. Needless to say, here in the States I would figure that Orville gets much better numbers just by being far more easily accessible than Discovery being on a VERY obscure pay service.


The Orville’s set design is clearly based on the old TNG aesthetics. In what ways do you see they’ve updated it that got read of the old taint? Or is it just a case of enough differences that it avoids the contempt of too much familiarity?

I’d be cool if he kept the dog around, Archer styles. But more likely it’ll die in the first episode. Bye doggo.

Perhaps the death of his beloved pooch in the first episode is what changes Picard’s personality so drastically. This forces him to stare into the abyss, and the abyss stares back.

Jean Pic?

It’s a pretty terrible photoshop poster. It doesn’t make me excited about the new show and tells me nothing other than learning sir Patrick’s real life interest is dogs. Anyone remember the dune buggy scene in nemesis? Or kirks nexus paradise rising horses? None of which I liked.