‘Star Trek: Picard’ Season 1 Episode 4 Spoiler Discussion

We’ll have a review up later on, but for now this is a spot to discuss the episode with your fellow Trekkies.

Pictured (l-r): Evan Evagora as Elnor; Patrick Stewart as Picard of the the CBS All Access series STAR TREK: PICARD. Photo Cr: Trae Patton/CBS ©2019 CBS Interactive, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

For people have haven’t seen the episode yet… stay away from the comments of this article.

 

Episode title: “Absolute Candor”

Synopsis: The crew’s journey to Freecloud takes a detour when Picard orders a stop at the planet Vashti, where Picard and Raffi relocated Romulan refugees 14 years earlier. Upon arrival, Picard reunites with Elnor (Evan Evagora), a young Romulan he befriended during the relocation. Meanwhile, Narek continues his attempts to learn more about Soji while Narissa’s impatience with his lack of progress grows.


The new episode of Star Trek: Picard premieres today at 12:01 AM PT/3:01 AM ET on CBS All Access in the USA and on Crave in Canada, and then it will air later today on CTV Sci-Fi Channel at 6PM PT /9PM ET. It will be made available on Amazon Prime Video for the rest of the world on Friday morning.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Picard news at TrekMovie.

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shiro

“Romulans have no honor!” Worf was right. :)

Tiger2

LOVED IT! LOVED IT! LOVED IT! In Frakes we trust :)

Easily the second best episode so far or a tie with the first one. Sooooo much to pack in this one. All the great Romulan mythology we are learning is just amazing to me. And even more so on how well the Romulans are being portrayed on this show when compared to how badly I thought they did the Klingons first season on Discovery. I’m enthralled with everything about the Romulans so far and I like we are getting actual culture and not just more military/spy stuff we got so much on TNG (and obviously on this show) but its nice they are also starting to treat Romulans as an actual three dimensional species for a change. But all the Romulan villains so far are coming off like a cartoon unfortunately.

It looks like every episode will start out with a flashback of some kind. I really liked this one a lot but man Picard has gotten really laid back because now the guy is beaming down in summer suits and not standard uniforms. ;)

I’m already loving Elnor’s back story and he seems like he’s going to be a lot of fun as well! That ‘fight’ didn’t last long, huh?

The introduction of the Romulan Bird of Prey, enough said! Pretty cool to see and especially in this era. We haven’t seen one since Enterprise. A nice throw back to the TOS era and felt very authentic even if a bit updated (take notes Discovery ;)).

How many Rios EH are there lol. They are so fun and we now seen four of them; each very different than the other. Rios doesn’t seem to care for any of them though lol.

I know some will moan about seeing a holodeck again but NOT ME!!!! I love them and it was fitting for Picard to bring his home on the ship. And it really says a lot about who Picard is now because we never saw him replicate the chateau on the Enterprise. He misses space but he does view Earth as his home now.

Loving all the new characters. They all have great chemistry together. I want Raffi and Rios to get together, have a baby and then appear in Star Trek’s first sitcom. Let’s be honest, we know that someone working on these shows are thinking up a sitcom idea at least. I don’t think anything is off the table in this new era of Trek. ;D

And yes, BEST OF ALL, Seven of Nine making her amazing debut at the end. “You owe me a ship Picard!” **Passes out^^ That’s our girl! Also loved that Picard knew her. Not surprised of course, but cool!

Not a perfect episode but close enough and a lot of nice moments in it.

Xondor

You took the words out of my mouth! :D I feel like I can echo your entire review!

Tiger2

NICE!!!!

This one was SO good!

c d

That’s better. I wish the previous episodes had been this good. Thank you Jonathan Frakes. I didn’t even wonder why there is a expensive defense grid around this poverty ridden planet because it was so well done. But I think over the last three episodes I lowered my expectations, but this was good.
Hated the annoying-blurry-Star Trek 2009-Star Wars Hyperspace-can’t see any stars warp effect. They always have to throw something in to remind you that is Kurt2man’5 Star Trek. Nice battle with the Bird of Prey. And they managed to make Narek not be insufferable.
Hope the next episodes continue to be good.

alastair87

It makes sense that they recognised each other – they’d both be public figures, him as a senior captain and admiral and her as a crew member of Voyager. I think Chabon has already said that this was their first actual meeting though.

Tiger2

Oh yeah I definitely agree! It was just nice they confirmed he knew her even if they never met.

And both Enterprise and Voyager crew are probably very famous crews in that era, but for very different reasons lol.

PEB

While the redesign of the Klingons was jarring at first, I liked what was shown of them in Season 1. I think what I love about seeing the Romulans here is that we FINALLY get to see with them what we’ve ALWAYS seen with the Klingons. Elnor is easily about to be one of my favorite characters and after seeing him, hopefully, people drop the Legolas comparison. I like what they’re doing here, a lot.

This also falls in line with what Hanelle Culpepper said about these shows – Discovery is Scifi Action, Picard is Scifi Drama, and the others will have different tones from that. I’m loving this modern era of Trek.

Tiger2

I don’t know, I had a lot of problems with the Klingons in first season of Discovery although I have to make this clear I’m not in love with Klingons in general like most fans are. I was never enamored with Klingons like they are perceived in the fanbase (and I’m not talking about characters like Worf and B’Elanna who I both love) although there are certainly a lot of great episodes with them in it. And my favorite times watching them were the Klingon war arc on DS9 and TUC. But overall, I just feel they already been overused as it is and their story on Discovery just sucked for me. It added a few new things but it was still the same Klingons we know, just weirder looking and complete A-holes (but I did really like L’Rell and sad we may not see her again unless she ends up on Section 31 or Pike). It’s still one of the biggest reasons I have no interest to watch the first season again.

But watching the Romulans on Picard is the complete opposite. I want to know more and more about them. As you said, we are FINALLY learning about them the way we been learning about Klingons for decades now. This is exactly why I was really hoping the Romulus explosion would be part of this story line and it’s the entire back drop of the show lol. But it turned out to be a good thing because now we’re really exploring Romulans and seeing all facets of them.

And every time I heard the lame cop out from people say, ‘Star Trek shouldn’t return to the TNG era because everything has been done to death already’, this show is proving the complete opposite of that. ;D

ValJean

Hello trekfan74 ;)

Tiger2

;)

John Bigbootee

7 rocks, babeeeeeee!!!!! 👍😜👏🖖

Tiger2

She certainly does! GREAT TO SEE AGAIN!!!!!!!

martin

The Rios EH are great. It does make sense that he would create them to look like him, and then of course he hates them all. He might be creating them just so he can hate them. I really don’t want to see if his EIH looks like him.

ML31

I find that to be an interesting part of who this guy is. Rios is easily the best character in the show. I’m curious to learn what his deal really is.

Vulcan Soul

Agreed! Amazing character! And best of all he’s allowed to be a real man and not a neutered, whining emo like Discovery’s Tyler!

Erik Scheibe

g

ML31

I felt using the old Bird of Prey was more fan service than anything. That ship is over 100 years old. Whatever it is that Rios has ought to be good enough to at least damage the thing. I found myself wishing they didn’t go there. It really took me out of the story.

I think they used the chateau mainly to get more use out of the set. No other reason. It felt like cost justification to me more than anything.

I guess it’s nice Picard knows Seven of Nine. But I hope we get a little exposition about why that is the case. From what has been seen if seems weird that Picard would know her. Maybe he knows OF her but I would argue even that would be a stretch. But such things can easily be explained away.

I agree this was the best episode. I just wish we didn’t have to sit through three episodes that barely advanced the plot before we got to this one. Feels like this show could have easily been 8 episodes instead of 10.

Vulcan Soul

He probably saw her on TV, like everybody saw him ;)

And here we thought that antiquated form of entertainment went the way of the dinosaur by 2040. Sadly, Data went first :/

ML31

That assumes she would have put herself in some sort of spotlight. But again, it is something that can be explained rationally rather easily. So it’s not that big a deal to me.

martin

I disagree on the BOP – yeah a bit of fan service for that, but it works for the story. The guy is just some warlord who got ahold of an antique Bird Of Prey. Many ways this could happen, either it was stolen in the chaos of the supernova, or it was used during the evacuation and then discarded – either way, someone getting ahold of it could upgrade shields and weapons – Rios’s private cargo transport going up against a 140 year old capital ship, would be like Tiger Wood’s yacht going against a WWI Battleship. It’s no match. But 7 has a small fighter with modern weapons did just slice through the ship – plus she might very well have upgraded that ship to have Borg cutting lasers.

ML31

I disagree that it works for the story. There just HAD to be other options than to salvage a 140 year old vessel. It would be more like if Tiger’s yacht was outfitted with minimal guns and was going against a wooden schooner. He could easily out maneuver the old thing and pepper the hull with bullets. The end. It reeked of fan service that just was not organic to the story whatsoever. It MIGHT be easier to accept if the show was set 60 years earlier. But it would still be a stretch. IMHO this series is laying the fan service on rather thick. I find it fun as much as the next fan but when they do it too often it does take me out of the illusion.

Herbert

Silly to think a starfleet Captain would know about the story of Voyager. And another prominent ex-borg? Lol. Cmon. They’d both be famous outside of starfleet. Inside of starfleet, they read reports. What’s surprising is that they never sought each other out.

Tiger2

Yeah Seven would be the most famous ex-borg outside of Picard himself. Everyone in the Federation would know about the Voyager crew in general. Not a shock he would know who she is. She may even be more famous than Michael Burnham but that’s probably taking it too far. ;D

Nebula1701

Well Picard and Janeway seem to know each other quite well if we look at Nem. Janeway could have shared stories about 7 but they never had a reason to meet face to face.

Jonathan

Everyone in the Federation would know about the Voyager … totally disagree, not all people are interested in starfleet agenda. Many people would know about Voyger (but not its crew) at time of its arrival, but it is just 20 years… But yes, Picard should know 7of9, may be even from unimatrix because they were both connected at the same time…

Tiger2

OK, fine. Point being it would probably be the most known ship since AFAIK its the only starship in history that went missing for years and came back. But in the kooky world of Star Trek and all the craziness these ships experience maybe that would just be a shrug to most lol.

Vulcan Soul

I thought in Starfleet history St. Michael does not exist anymore? This was actually the biggest gift TPTB could give to her detractors ;)

But Picard would certainly know who Michael Burnham was because of his mind-meld with Sarek.

'Drew

They might all be Katra connected, to boot.

Giez

He was a Captain when V’ger came home… He knows Janeway (Nemesis), and then he was an Admiral… of course he was debriefed on all of that! Maybe even more we will find out…

Erik Scheibe

g

ML31

I never advocated starting at the 4th episode. Things need to get set up, of course. I just claimed all that could have been done in two regular or one longer episode.

The Trouble With Dribbles

If Picard is to have more Holodeck scenes with ‘Data’ it would make sense to show off the ships amazing holograph/gram capabilities. And since there are apparently emitters all over the ship, we may see Data even in more places aboard. Showing the chateau was just a means to show us it’s accuracy, IMO.

More holodeck scenes with Data? You do know that was a dream sequence in the first episode, right?

And personally, I doubt they’ll do a holographic Data. What would even be the point of that? Fan service only. No thanks, I’ll pass. The dreams felt organic as they were a part of the story. Hologram Data would just feel like they wanted to force in another cameo for no good reason.

Tillsy

I agree 100% with every single word you have written, you have said it all perfectly.

Personally I didn’t care for Jeri Ryan’s catsuit in Voyager, and her stiff personality was fantastic as obviously a recent Borg drone convert at the time but likewise turned me off attraction wise. But seeing her so casual in Picard – OMG soooooooooooooooooooo hot!!!!

And boy did I literally laugh out loud when she then passed straight out – LOL!!!

Nebula1701

Yeah when she showed up then passed out. That was funny!

DaveCGN

“And it really says a lot about who Picard is now because we never saw him replicate the chateau on the Enterprise. He misses space but he does view Earth as his home now.”
I would say the chateau Picard has become the role of the Enterprise in his series and his living room the bridge and ready room. In his chateau he is sitting on the chair like he sat on his command chair.

Luke Montgomery

That was a lot of fun. The Mexican slang that the hologram speaks was fun. A first for Trek. Really enjoyed it.

ValJean

Was actually Chilean slang, the actor is Chilean and the words were super common expressions in times of stress haha

Luke Montgomery

Que chido. He said “güey” which is a super Mexican expression. I live in Mexico and am happy to know it’s also used in Chile :)

Val Jean

Its the way He says the numbers which especially gives it away, Chileans barely use the S in speech haha

Rand Althor

hello. He didn´t say no güey, but no hueví, a short for no huevees. Really funny, chilean slang.

Francisco Uribe

He said “no me huevís”. Another way to say is it “no me huevees”… which could be equivalent to “no me jodas”.
I think is not even close to the meaning of güey.

Jason Felt

I like how different this show feels than the Next Generation, but also the same. It’s like TNG versus DS9. Everyone wanted DS9 to be like TNG, and when it wasn’t, people turned their back on it; yet, there are parts of DS9 that are a whole lot better than TNG. Picard has the spirit of Picard and you know he secretly likes doing things “off the record”. He has found himself outside of Starfleet.

There are no parts of DS9 that are better than TNG.

Tiger2

Looks like we have to agree to disagree on that one! ;)

TNG is definitive Star Trek to me on so many levels and love it to death; but DS9 surpasses it on so many ways, I can’t even count. But this just proves we all love what we love when it comes to this amazing franchise. :)

It’s cool, I can count ’em for you: zero. ;)

I kid, of course. Sort of.

Spock Jenkins

DS9 definitely surpassed TNG on many levels.

As for “definite Trek” – for me, it’s The Original Series.

PaulB

@Spock Jenkins – Agreed. For me, there are exactly three “definite Star Trek” shows: TOS, TNG, and ENT. Simply put, those are the only ones that follow Star Trek’s clearly stated mission statement of “exploring strange new worlds…” and so on.

The others are spinoffs within the same universe, but should not be called Star Trek. The Jeffersons was a spinoff of All in the Family, but nobody would have called it “All in the Family: The Jeffersons” just because they shared a setting.

DS9 is the best sci-fi show of the bunch, but if it’s not Enterprise-exploring-space, it’s not Star Trek, it’s just a spinoff.

KTrek

All STAR TREK follow the mission statement.

PaulB

@Ktrek – No, they don’t. DS9 wasn’t about the starship Enterprise, seeking new worlds and new lifeforms, going where no one has gone before. Neither was VOY or DSC, nor Picard so far.

Three shows follow the mission statement. The others merely share the same setting. As I already explained clearly.

You can offer disagreement with logical arguments, but your mere assertion means little.

KTrek

No, you’re wrong. You can say it all you want, but you simply saying it is means little.

KTrek

Once again, All STAR TREK follow the mission statement. Regardless of what PaulB says. You can say only 3 shows follow it but you’re wrong and it’s like you’ve never watched DS9 or Voyager. I guess that’s the difference between real Star Trek fans and those who just complain…like yourself.

PaulB

@KTrek – Well, you just proved yourself unworthy of conversation. Your reply is mere stupidity, not a rational or coherent response.

I didn’t complain. I defined.

Any future stupid replies will be ignored, but if you care to respond as a rational adult with logic, I’ll consider replying. As is, you seem to have nothing to say, so bye bye!

Tiger2

I love the fact everyone is disagreeing on what they consider definitive Star Trek lol.

But I agree with you they all follow the mission statement. The newer shows like Picard and Section 31 probably not lol.

The River Temarc

@PaulB: thank you for putting into words what I’ve always felt.

c d

TOS: Yes. TNG: Yes. ENT:?!? No.

PaulB

@c d — Why not ENT? It’s a starship Enterprise on a mission to explore, so…?

ML31

Forced to agree, Spock Jenkins. There is only one “definite Trek”. The original series. DS9 kicks some serious A, that’s for sure. But no show has been able to recreate the lightning in the bottle that TOS managed.

Tiger2

Well we just have to agree to disagree there!

ML31

OK but the fact is without TOS and what they achieved TNG would have nothing to try and copy to begin with. And therefore, would not exist. ;)

Tiger2

LOL, well that’s true. ;)

And none of this is a contest for me, people should just like what they like end of the day. I like basically all of it so its not that hard for me (although yes still not in love with any of the current stuff). It all says Star Trek on the banner. Only us nerds cares one way or the other.

But yes no one would be talking about Trek today if TOS didn’t start it all and why it always be the most legendary of all the shows.

Spock Jenkins

Sorry, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY DISAGREE.

Jack

Except for all of them. It was a better show.

Without Stewart, TNG would have been unwatchable.

martin

I disagree. After season 3, Frakes could carry the show, especially backed by Dorn, Burton and Spiner. Whether the show could make it through the first two seasons without Stewart, that’s another matter. Until Roddenberry and his lawyer got out of the way, TNG sucked.

ML31

I tend to agree to a point. There were certainly a number of good episodes. But it was Stewart who had the skill to bring charisma to a very bland and dull character. It was Stewart and only Stewart who made the lesser shows even watchable.

ValJean

So In the pale moonlight or the visitor aren’t better than Sub Rosa? Cmon

kmart

You’re kicking cripples with that comparison, but yeah, in the Berman era, DS9 is the only semi-consistent sign of excellence for me, way above TNG, with the other shows mostly unwatchable.

The River Temarc

That’s cherry picking to the extreme. It’s a bit like deciding TNG is the superior series by comparing “The Inner Light” to, I don’t know, “The Magnificent Ferengi” (that’s the only Ferengi episode whose title I can remember, to be honest).

Vulcan Soul

The increasing reliance on Ferengi “humour”, alien mysticism mumbo-jumbo and endless war arcs is what soured DS9 for me in later seasons.

ML31

DS9 did have some issues and had their share of less than stellar episodes, that is for sure. I did not enjoy the Ferengi centered episodes myself nor did I care for when they went to the MU and I hate that DS9 was the show that spawned Section 31. But when they were on top of their game (which was more often than the other spinoffs) they ruled the spinoffs.

PaulB

@Bryant Burnette – Your comment is pure trolling and deserves the Mad Max “that’s bait” meme, nothing more.

KTrek

You’re the only one who can say others are trolling. This is the internet. All STAR TREK series follow the “mission statement.” Rewatch them…or maybe you should watch them for the first time.

PaulB

@KTrek – Stop harrassing me. You already commented about the mission statement; no need to mention it here, where I didn’t mention it at all.

Moderators, there’s a new troll in the forum. Calm him down or I’ll happily slap his idiocy down myself.

I’m sick of being attacked every time I comment here. FIX THE FORUMS so the trolls can be silenced, please and thank you!

TG47

PaulB, to be fair, I have to side with those who push back when you wave recursive tautological arguments to justify why only the Trek that you feel is ‘real’ Trek is real Trek.

I agree with you often enough to appreciate your engagement here, but is it really necessary for you to declare yourself the arbitrator of what isn’t and is Trek each week?

And then to seriously call others trolls when they call you out on this.

It’s all Trek because it’s in the Trek Universe. There is no legal franchise charter somewhere saying it’s only ‘real’ Trek if it involves and exploratory ship. That may be your preference, but for my part I’m very delighted to be boldly exploring aspects of the Trek universe that can’t be reached with another edition of the Enterprise.

PaulB

TG47,
I’ll reply to each point in order.

-“recursive tautological arguments” – I have used no such arguments. I have explained with logic and evidence behind my claims. I’m open to being proved wrong–just quote my recursive tautologies.

-“…is it really necessary for you to declare yourself the arbitrator of what isn’t and is Trek each week?” – Again, I have not done this. I have explained what *I* see as Star Trek and the reasons why. In fact, here’s my first words on the matter in this entire conversation: “For me, there are exactly three “definite Star Trek” shows: TOS, TNG, and ENT.”

FOR ME–not for everyone. So, no, I don’t declare myself the arbiter. (In other threads, I have argued about FACTS on Star Trek that some people here don’t want to accept, but that’s a different thread.)

“And then to seriously call others trolls when they call you out on this.” *You* engaged me with an intelligent reply, but KTrek is a troll who just says “Derp, yer wrong, derp” and accuses me of not having ever watched Trek. KTrek offered no thoughts, no argument, just trolling.

Yet you seriously think *I* am the problem? He’s literally gatekeeping while I started my entire argument with the qualification that I’m talking about what Star Trek is FOR ME.

“It’s all Trek because it’s in the Trek Universe.” By this logic, Frasier is Cheers because it’s in the Cheers Universe. I hope you can see the basic logical problem in that. It’s a very simple piece of rational thinking. I love Frasier, but it’s not Cheers. It’s a spinoff. I love DS9, but it’s not TNG. It’s a spinoff.
Trek is the ONLY franchise that insists on attaching the original shows name to spinoffs that do not follow the original show’s mission statement.

Example: Good Times was a spinoff from Maude which spun off from All in the Family. By your stated logic, Good Times *IS* All in the Family because they share the same setting.

That makes no sense…but Trek does it for no good reason.

“There is no legal franchise charter somewhere saying it’s only ‘real’ Trek if it involves and exploratory ship.” Yes, there *is* a charter. It’s the opening words of the original show. AS I EXPLAINED ALREADY. But you’re accusing me of claims I didn’t make. I didn’t just state my preference; I presented an argument based on logic, on precedent, and on the mission statement of TOS and TNG.

TG47, I will engage in rational debate, but I won’t tolerate trolls. I also won’t tolerate being accused of things I have not done or said. I haven’t attacked anyone for liking any/all Trek, but I get attacked for offering an argument based on facts, logic, and precedent…and I’m the problem? Bull.

Now, a question for you: What is Star Trek? What makes it different from any other sci-fi show–or any other TV show in general, for that matter?

It seems that you and others ONLY care about the setting, not the meaning or theme of Star Trek. I might be wrong. Others have defined Trek as “a sci-fi show that explores the human condition,” which is literally ANY sci-fi show, and which means those Trekkies will accept ANYTHING as Trek.

If Star Trek has no clear definition, then the name and the franchise are meaningless. So…what makes something Star Trek, and what would make it NOT Star Trek to you?

TG47

To me PaulB, Trek is an optimistic show set in the future that engages the mind and values in solutions.

It is always exploring the human condition and challenging with differences, physical, sociological, cultural, psychological and scientific, but that exploration doesn’t have to be constrained to a long-range exploration ship.

If there was a plethora of non-Trek shows that did this in other universes, a more narrow definition might be needed.

But there isn’t. There has not been and still is not anything like Trek, and all the moreso after a couple of decades of grimdark television.

I’m very pleased that TPTB are doing the best to cover the waterfront. There’s no need to microniche Trek. No one else is doing any of this.

PaulB

DSC hasn’t been optimistic yet. It shows a very non-optimistic Starfleet, hateful Starfleet officers (Rekhma Sharma’s character in DSC), mirror-universe baddies who run things, Section 31 all over the place–not optimistic.

Picard shows a racist and hateful Federation and Starfleet–not optimistic.

DSC season 3 is about a future where thing are awful and the Federation is gone/wrecked–not optimistic.

On the optimism front, these two shows fail.

Also, a show called Star Trek must have two elements in the center of the show’s concept: exploration and space. Otherwise, it is NOT a *Star* *Trek*.

The Expanse is more like Star Trek than any of the current Trek shows or the ones on the way. Heck, The Orville is better Trek than any of the stuff TPTB are making. So, yes, there are shows doing what Star Trek has done, and doing it better than current Trek.

You described liking science fiction, but not specifically Star Trek. And if DSC and racist-Federation-filled-with-spies don’t count as “grimdark” to you, I can’t imagine how much darker it would have to be. DSC, where a major character used to be a genocidal emperor who ate intelligent beings for fun.

Yeah. That’s VERY optimistic…

PaulB

Next week is the season premiere of Breaking Bad. It should be great.

Wait, no, it’s BETTER CALL SAUL that’s premiering next week.

But it’s the same universe, right? So next week *is* a return of Breaking Bad–by the logic used to call these space-show spinoffs “Star Trek.”

If it doesn’t make sense to call the Breaking Bad spinoff “Breaking Bad,” it makes no sense to call Trek spinoffs “Star Trek.” Basic logic.

ML31

I am forced to disagree. Literally EVERYTHING except one thing in DS9 is superior to TNG. That one thing is no one on DS9 has the acting chops of Stewart. But every actor on DS9 is better than everyone else on TNG. And their characters are all more interesting.

PaulB

@ML31 – Well said, and completely accurate in my opinion.

TG47

Totally agree ML31, the company of actors was deep and the strongest of any Trek show by far, regardless of the individual strength of Patrick Stewart.

TPTB had realized what kind of actors were needed to be able to have everyone in the company carry their share of episodes.

I would rate Discovery’s company second in that so far, regardless of whether what they have been given to work with has been incoherent due to so much turmoil in the writers room.

A34

DS9 was 100 times better than TNG.

blackmocco

TNG never had Terry Farrell…

kmart

Did he say name two things … ?

Ben

i prefer DS9 over TNG. 3-7 season were great. For me the pinnacle of star trek so far.

Jonathan

DS9 is IMHO same good as TNG, for me 2 best Trek series.

Pretty good episode; hopefully, Chabon writing solo is an indication of things to come the rest of the season. And Frakes as a director simply gets Trek better than most.

Elnor seems cool. He looks a bit like he’s accompanying Picard on a quest to Mordor, but I guess that’s okay.

The kid version of Elnor — did he look like Balok-era Clint Howard to anyone else?

The 7/9 reveal at the end would have been inexpressibly cool if we hadn’t all known she was coming. Kind of a missed opportunity there. but it got a lot of people (me included) excited about the series, so I don’t blame them for going that route.

Sean Healy

This episode had FOUR writers and SEVENTEEN executive producers.

Nope. The only credited writer was Michael Chabon.

TG47

Sean, seriously, Google a listing of the WGA hierarchy of writers.

It’s no negative reflection on the show,

There were 5 active executive producers listed (other than the mandatory credit for Roddenberry and his representative). The other producers are members of the writers room and have lower ranking titles. This is the difference between a writers room and episode by episode writing.

Yeah, I can understand why they used Seven of Nine to promote the show, but it would have been nice if her first appearance had been uncredited, seeing as how she only had one line at the end. It would have made for such a better surprise, especially since we thought her first episode was going to be next week.

ML31

Yeah, might have been better had they not listed Jeri Ryan in the titles. We knew she was coming but did not know when. When she wasn’t on the planet I figured she would be there for just the “Hi” at the very end of the episode. And when the ship showed up to help, it was pretty darn obvious who that was. It feels like the show runners still have a lot to learn about shows with season long arcs.

ML31

I also wish to add that when they REPEATEDLY referred to the pilot as “he” it was all the more obvious. Even if it wasn’t Seven then you knew the pilot would turn out to be a “she”. The writer wasn’t fooling anyone there.

Tiger2

The crazy thing was I didn’t even notice her name in the title credits, so she was a complete surprise to me. I did figure out she would show up at the end when someone said the name of the group she belonged to, Fenric Rangers (and you only know that if you watched some of her later interviews), but it was a great introduction. Suddenly things feels a lot more interesting.

c d

Yet another reason to skip the titles. The main reasons of course are the visuals and the music.

Thorny

Yes, I do think they should not have listed Jeri Ryan in the opening credits, and just brought up “Special Guest Star Jeri Ryan” as the episode ended. DS9 did that so as not to reveal that Salome Jens (The Female Founder) was in one episode and it was brilliant.

Captain Danno

I enjoyed this episode and am looking forward to watching it a second time. I am curious to learn of Elnor’s history; who were his parents and how was he orphaned with the Qowat Milat? I’ve read rumors online but am taking them with a grain of salt. I really like his relationship with Picard, though. In the “last time” segment at the beginning I was reminded of a question I had when it first aired but don’t think I’ve seen addressed anywhere else. It was stated that Picard left the Enterprise to lead the rescue armada. Is that when he was promoted to Admiral? I have not read the comic yet, so maybe it is explained there. And I may be wrong about this, but I believe this is the first ever episode of Star Trek to not feature anyone from Starfleet! At least active members. Unless you count Picard in his leisure suit in the flashback. I guess he did have his combadge, but still not in full uniform. The first episode didn’t have many but there were some uniformed officers seen outside the archives in San Fransisco. Anyway, just a fun piece of trivia for me. Hard to believe the first season is already 4/10 complete! Feels like it is just getting started and is really good to be back in the TNG era…

Mark

****************
Spoilers from Last Best Hope by Una McCormack
****************
Reading the book now. Yes, he left the Enterprise and was promoted to admiral when he accepted the job to lead the Romulan Relief effort in 2381.

PEB

I just bought the book, definitely looking forward to reading it!

c d

But is it canon? The Countdown comic for Star Trek 2009 showed Data alive and it was supposed to be canon. But now, of course, it is not and he is not.

Corinthian7

It’s canon…. until it’s not. We also had the same scenario with the Discovery books as well with some of the early material already being overwritten by season 2. There’s clearly been more of an effort to keep the tie in media consistent and I think those that read them can definitely be rewarded by seeing elements or themes introduced before they’re shown on screen. However, I’ve got no doubt that if there’s something they decide they want to do in season 2 or 3 and it completely contradicts a fundamental plot point from the books then they won’t hesitate to do it.

'Drew

“So NuKirk, you went from cadet to captain in a single promotion? Hold my wine.” – Captain Picard before skipping three flag officer ranks.

VZX

Ok that was something else. Very very good episode from start to finish. But I need to watch it again to fully unpack. Seven!!!!! Yas!

VZX

We never saw Romulans carry swords before, but then we really only saw the military version of Romulans for the most part. These swords look very similar to a Musketeer rapier. I wonder if the Three Musketeers book that Picard gave to Elnor as a boy greatly influenced that village of Romulans to the point they all carried rapiers and dueled each other like the book. Similar to the TOS episode “A Piece of the Action.” I know it’s unlikely, but it’s just my head-canon.

steve- o

The Romulans in JJTrek had swords. We saw Sulu have sword fight on the Drill platform

VZX

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I was just thinking about the Romulans from TOS, TNG, and DS9.

ML31

Except as fun as that sequence was it really didn’t make sense that those Romulans would go down there with swords. Even as back up in the event they lose their disruptors.

Mathew

Second best episode of the season for me. Need more of Picard taking charge like the “open a channel” moment.

Trek in a Cafe

I smiled through most of this episode. And it felt like the most Chambon yet. Frakes!

Tim

OMG they kept the DSC warp flight effect!

PEB

It’s funny, it’s actually a combination of that and the TNG effect. Instead of blue streaks, there’s a bit of that iridescent look that the TNG warp effect had. What I like about the DSC warp is that it just looks “fast.”

I seem to recall reading recently that a physicist had commented if (big if) FTL travel were possible, what you’d see is diffused light, not the blurry streaks you see in Trek. So, if that is the case, perhaps the franchise is paying a little attention to actual science. Who knows?

ML31

Yeah… That bugged me a lot. It reminded me a bit of the KU. I don’t recall them ever mentioning a warp factor in those films. They just went to warp. Like there was only one speed just like light speed from Star Wars.

Tiger2

I really like that effect on Discovery. And I liked how it’s used in the Kelvin universe too.

c d

Just one more way Kurt2man’5 trying to make it like Star Wars.

Tiger2

I guess little things like this don’t bother me, especially if its a cool effect. But if you just don’t like it, well that’s different.

ValJean

Does anyone else feel like they haven’t seen Captain Picard yet? Seems way too emotional and just different in every scene, it’s like Pat Stewart is just playing himself.

I get time has changed, he’s older wiser etc, but even the scene in the flashback especially, since that surely was only a short time after nemesis, as if he wouldn’t beam down in uniform?

I get they want to make it ‘different’ but sometimes difference just for the sake of it isn’t needed

Trek in a Cafe

He definitely feels like a retired soldier — not someone in active duty. Could easily be the same person.

SirBroiler

Maybe the Starfleet uniform was off-putting to the Romulans – even though at this stage they were helping with the evacuation? I’m sure there still was a lot of mistrust between the Federation and Roumlans – many probably fearing that Starfleet was going to control them after being displaced. The casual dress could have been Picard’s way of putting those in the colony more at ease with his presence, showing that he is just a visitor to their new home.

Tiger2

I don’t buy that because in the countdown comic he beams down on a Romulan colony with the same Starfleet uniform we saw him wearing last episode. I think this is just keeping to Stewart’s wish to be in less uniform as possible.

Thorny

I expect we won’t until the end of Season 1. This is about Picard re-becoming the Picard we knew.

somethoughts

I agree, the only time I see Picard is when he is yelling at someone or upset. I suppose we are seeing the retired civilan side if Picard.

This episode was solid with a nice ship to ship sequence. I think the Agnes, the blonde doctor is a synth.

I think the whole find the twin daughter of data is lame for the central plot. The whole sub plot with the romulan spy trying to find out about other synths through love making with the android is weak. I dont understand how a human/android is working on a borg cube for the romulans with hugh onboard. Why is Hugh there and why is Seven of Nine in the same system as Picards side mission to some refugee planet? Seems too non organic and fan service…

ML31

“I think the whole find the twin daughter of data is lame for the central plot.”

I find that concept to be lame in general whether it’s for the central plot or for a B or even C story. The concept is ridiculous. Nearly on par with the concept of Lorca being from the MU. If this story goes where some of the fan theories I’ve read goes… It will be a yet another GIANT misstep for Secret Hideout Trek.

somethoughts

agreed!

Jay

Every production with the name of Jonathan Frakes its just great! For me, this is the Best Picard episode so far! Everyone is now more comfortable in their roles. Including Chabon. The script, the interaction of the characters is getting better.

This time, I really enjoyed listening to Jurati asking all type of questions, Picard and Raffi and their round of interesting and enjoyable bantering. Raffi is very smart, she complains and refuse everything from the Admiral, but follow all his orders…Picard is already the Captain of the ship! His leadership, his wisdom, very natural, outstanding!

I wish we could see more from Elnor before his departure. Maybe few more minutes of argument/reasons for his anger. More time for Picard explaining what happened to him. Why he was not able to complete his mission, to return to them. Could be repetitive for us, but was a necessary argument to make the Elnor and all the other Romulans aware of what he was going through. What Startfleet did to make him fail.

The ending of the episode with Seven showing up was just perfect. Very cool. Can’t wait for next week!

Let me sum up the way I feel about this episode with absolute candor: It sucks!

I’m trying so hard to enjoy this show, and there certainly are elements of it that I love. But wow, this may be the worst episode yet. Yes, even worse than episode 2.

I am already so sick of the Soji/Narek storyline. And whatever sexual tension is going on between him and his sister–enough already!

I do, however, like the La Sirena. It’s no Enterprise, but that’s okay. And I love seeing Seven of Nine back in action! Hopefully she’s chosen a real name by now, or at least reclaim her given name. If she’s done parading around in her catsuit, then I’m done calling her “Seven”. I will call her Annika until she picks something better. It would have been a nice surprise with her showing up at the end, if only the opening credits hadn’t spoiled it. And, you know, all the billboards and promos with her face on it!

It’s pretty sad when even Rios is getting sick of all his holograms. And Romulan Ninja Warrior?!? WTF is this show?

Episode 1 was such a promising start, but it’s been pretty downhill since. Like I said, I’m trying really hard to enjoy the show. I guess I just miss the days when I didn’t have to *try*.

Jay

How, why!? It was a great episode! I can’t wait to see it again!

Admiral Lockhart

Sucks is a very dramatic word. I cant see how anyone can say this sucks at all. I have been a trek fan through EVERY iteration – and this is some of the best Trek I have seen in years. DS9 tbh sucked ass till about season 4 IMO so we all differ.

“this is some of the best Trek I have seen in years”

Yeah, I think that says more about the state of Trek these days than anything else. I’m glad you enjoyed Romulan Ninja Warrior. It’s just not for me.

ML31

I will give you that thus far everything going on in the Borg Cube I find to be monumentally dull. They finally dropped a little bit of a clue for what those two spies are doing but I still have no idea what the “reclamation project” is all about. Or even why the Bourne cyborg is even there. As good as this episode was in its own rights, there are still parts of this story that are bogging down the show in general. The concept of Data’s ‘daughter’ is still idiotic as is the double secret tal shiar who are so far about as effective as Star Wars Stormtroopers. And I’m still wondering if the Borg cube project is going to play a part larger than merely a setting for something else.

Yes! Sliding around a Borg cube with your shoes off? Is that what people do for fun in the 24th Century? And were those Christmas string lights in the background? That’s somehow more embarrassing than Commodore Oh’s sunglasses last week (although not as noticeable). It’s like they’re not even trying.

c d

Agreed. I did like this episode, and it definitely better then the last one, but I think I allowed my expectations to be lowered. That’s the key: not to *try* but to not try, as in not try to think.
I turn off part of my brain. I learned to do that with Star Trek Beyond. It makes it easier to watch, but part of the point of watching is lost. But, to be honest, it’s been like that since most of the TNG movies. (Even the venerated First Contact was actually just a dumbed down action movie.) I think the last good Star Trek was DS9. But I only realize that if I allow myself to think.

Yeah, I get what you’re saying. I have to turn my brain completely off when I watch Discovery. But this show set the bar pretty high with the premiere episode, so I guess I was hoping the rest of it would be better than it’s been.

Ambassador Sybok

My only complaint about this episode is that Jeri Ryan’s credit should have come in the end titles (still as Special Guest Star) to preserve that surprise of her appearance at the end.

VZX

I’ve learned since the first episode to not read the credits before I watch the episode. It helps!

Thorny

Agreed. As in Salome Jens’ credit at the end of DS9’s “Heart of Stone”.
Took me completely by surprise that that wasn’t Major Kyra but was the Founder. But if her name had been in the credits, I would have started wondering…

Nelson

Funny enough I saw her name and still was completely surprised to see her. Guess I was really into the moment 🤣

Trek in a Cafe

Ok, one thing I will admit is that I wanted to see the Romulan Commander on the old Romulan ship. I also didn’t want that ship destroyed, or grievously injured. In a way, that was a tease.

Quinton Chloe

Holy…

That was… exceptional television. Best episode yet, and possibly the best episode of modern Star Trek.

Admiral Lockhart

Yup! I am adoring this series so much

ML31

Well… I was up early this morning and watched the episode before heading to work. I know this is a season long arc and individual episodes don’t really mean as much as the whole but I am forced to say that this episode by far is the best of the season. Not even close. We actually get interesting stuff going on. The plot is moved forward (finally). We even got a clue of what the double secret tal shiar wants with the Jason Bourne cyborg. This should have been the 2nd episode. They could have set everything up in one 75 minute episode to lead things off. Then jumped straight here.

My main issue is… Hand to hand with swords? Really? It’s not a light sabre. You can vaporize dark haired Legolas with a phaser. He’s really only useful in tight spaces.

One other thing… There were ZERO glitches for the first time ever on CBSAA!! I’m wondering if it might have something to do with when I stream it. Perhaps there weren’t many people watching at 5am? I do wish the closed captioning was not the kind contained in black boxes that suck up screen space. Netflix just puts the words up right there on screen without that irritating box. Not that Netflix is good, mind you. Their user interface is the worst ever. Even CBS has them beat there. But come on… Why?

c d

I watch it Thursday night. No glitches then.

TG47

ML31 the close captioning in the black box is system specific it seems.

We watch on CTV’s Sci-fi channel in Canada using BellMedia’s Fibe. One of our kids likes ‘subtitles’ so we do see a lot of these.

On both Picard and Discovery, the subtitles have been embedded in the image when we’ve had them turned on.

ML31

It makes sense that you, watching on your cable system, would not have the black boxes. On Direct TV there are two different options for CC. One does have the black boxes, the other, Direct TV’s CC, does not. For some idiot reason CBSAA opted for the box boxes. This is a bit frustrating because that option is intrusive. At the very least they could put them on the bottom in the black frame since it’s shot in 2.39:1. No, they decided to raise them to include them in the frame!

But using the CC on streaming services remains problematic for all the ones I’ve tried anyway. The only ones that work good are on my DVR. I generally do not watch with the subtitles. But occasionally there is a thick accent or something just doesn’t sound legible. I back up and turn on the CC. Which on cable is quick and easy with a few clicks on the remote. On streaming, backing up itself is problematic. Every time you do it it halts and rebuffers. That is a hassle right there. I have discovered that CBSAA has a back up button that works without having to rebuff. But you can only hit it once. I found I cannot hit it twice to get twice the backup. And turning the CC on and off is a fumbling nightmare. I have found that when watching Netflix it is just best to leave the CC on even if you don’t need it. It’s way too much of a hassle to turn it on and off. But for CBSAA those boxes are just a huge irritant.

Dvorak

I was riveted from start to finish. Time just flew by here… wish it was 10 minutes or more longer. Stewart is noticeably very lively and excited, must be because Frakes is directing. Sevens intro was neat. I love all the different holograms of Rios!

John Bigbootee

By the way, *very much* enjoying the Ready Room with Wil Wheaton. Always enjoyed the after-shows, but this time it really seems the formula and chemistry is right, with WW. He gives a perfect (for me) balance of in-depth questions & analysis, coupled with comparisons to Trek history from his perspective as an insider, and finally he honestly geeks out just like the rest of us. Feels like one of our own up there. Keep it up, WW!

Jay

Glad Wil is hosting the Ready Room. And wish he can show up unexpectedly, as Wesley Crusher!

ML31

I haven’t seen it because I figured it would be little more than a stroke fest for Picard. So my question is has anyone been the slightest bit critical of the show?

Agree or disagree the shuttlepod podcasts here are coming across as pretty honest. Something I would not expect from the Ready Room.

I stopped watching when Wheaton said after one episode that Raffi was one of his favorite characters ever in all of Star Trek. Rolled my eyes viciously and said nope, I don’t need this.

c d

No, Wil Wheaton does not want to desperately be on Picard at all!

TG47

It’s not the format for that kind of criticism ML31.

It’s more like having the opportunity to see a Trek actor at a con while the season is running, and with one of the best moderators ever. I think that this is really a fantastic idea given that the day of the regional CreationCons is past so that many fans never get this opportunity to see this kind of thing in person.

We may not agree with Wil (e.g. about Raffi being great because she’s allowed to be flawed), but he comes across as authentic.

If you want an in depth discussion from the producers, the Deadline podcast offers a lot of insight. You may not agree with the writers, but this podcast definitely let’s you know what they were thinking of and trying to do episode-by-episode.

ML31

I’m not looking for criticism so much as I just don’t want to see them gush all over about how “great it is to work with (insert director or actor here)” or go on about how wonderful this show is in all respects and what not. Maybe if they talk about some behind the scenes stuff and perhaps some scene deconstruction. I get a kick out of that but I cannot believe they would keep much of their audience if they did much of that.

Nelson 🖖🏼

Agreed. WW is a natural fit. I never watched after trek… no problem with the people behind it. It just didn’t interest me. Putting WW just worked.

stanlowcrickets888

The opening flashback scene (i.e. + April 5, 2385) with Picard on the Romulan planet should have had the USS Verity Starfleet Ship orbiting the Planet Vashti…along with Wallenberg-class transport ships and/or some other starships and NOT the kit-bashed Discovery shuttles!! This was a missed opportunity to really set the scene in the Star Trek universe for fans and non-fans alike. The USS Verity (Odyssey class) as it appears in the Picard Countdown comic has the iconic Enterprise design.. Or even throw in a TNG starship from the 2360s. We get Raffi contacting Picard via comm badge, assuming they both are on the Verity (as detailed in both Picard Countdown comic and The Last Best Hope book).

Mark

Totally agree. Between reading the new book and the comic book tie-in, I really want to see the Verity on my screen.

c d

I don’t think Kurt2man would allow that to be 5een. If so, the ships would be all ugly Discovery-style ships.

Partha

This was the best episode of the series! We see a few things here I really like
1) Picard acknowledging his mortality
2) Picard confronting his own guilt
3) But he is not a broken man,just someone who wants to make things right. Really someone who wants to resolve things before his time is up
4) When Soji was told about the Borg ‘ritual’ by Narek she tilted her head very much like Data.
5) The Romulan colony was wonderfully done. For the first time I felt that the Romulan culture was truly alien but also one that has resonance with our times, a very tricky thing to do.
6) I like that the spaceship battles were not starship quality but more like two old boats fighting with spear guns,not top of the line technology.

Very very good.

ML31

I don’t think Picard really feels guilty himself. I think he is being honorable and taking the heat himself but deep down he knows he did what he could and it was all Star Fleet’s decision, not his.

Partha

True. However I think his guilt is over the death of Data.

ML31

I’m not so sure that is guilt either. He certainly seemed to feel for Data. More so in the features than the series that is for sure. He really didn’t have anything to feel guilty about regarding Data’s destruction. In fact, I think he was shocked Data made the decision to sacrifice himself for him when Picard seemed perfectly willing to make that same sacrifice. And since it meant the safety of his ship, then he was resigned to that. So there was certainly sadness at the loss of the Data android. Thinking more about it perhaps what guilt he feels is more survivors guilt? Either way it is certain Data’s sacrifice for him is affecting him. Perhaps in ways he did not expect?

TG47

ML31, I think you have it right that Data’s death affected Picard more than he expected.

It seems that Picard feels that he should have been able to get past it, but could not and that has shaken his self-assurance.

One thought : Data is unique. In TNG Data was viewed as a prototype, and there was always the expectation that somehow down the line someone would make the technology work. But in the end, there were no other androids at Data’s level.

From this perspective, Data’s death wasn’t just a the death of an individual, it was the extinction of an entire species of sentient life. As a Starfleet captain and as an archeologist, the loss of the potential of Data’s species would be abhorrent.

Vulcan Soul

“From this perspective, Data’s death wasn’t just a the death of an individual, it was the extinction of an entire species of sentient life.”.

That’s the saddest and most beautifully written thing I read here today! :’)

ML31

Well, Data’s “species” seemed to always be destined to be a “species” of one until his parts became impossible to replace. Since in the Trek world it became impossible to duplicate the tech this was always going to be the case. I just think that Picard always felt Data would go on long after he himself perished. Perhaps he felt that was how things were meant to be. Like a parent is not meant to outlive their child. Not that he thinks of Data as his son…

Anduinel

Yes, agreed – such good viewing. Picard is a great man who, in making a grand gesture that ultimately served no one, committed one of the most profound mistakes of his life. And there should be some justifiable anger toward him for that. But watching him face into that storm and just try to make some things right in the time he has left has been a fantastic to watch, and everything just seemed to gel in this episode…

…save one thing. I hope we’re off the Borg cube soon. I like the mystery there, but the creepy incest-spies are really dragging that whole bit down for me.

ray

After seeing the data head tilt in episode 7, i randomly and casually watched older episodes and just noticed the head tilt in episode 4. Nice find!

Michael K

This episode NAILED it! I loved it so much! The key ingredient to this episode is how brilliantly the characters were written and the way Frakes used all of those small moments to give the characters life and personality. The characters inhabit this world like real people, not just facades speaking dense dialogue. Each character has their own voice and personality. More importantly, this is the first time I actually recognize the Jean Luc Picard I knew from TNG. This is like the TNG we know the original writers wanted to create, but the producers wouldn’t let happen. Great stuff, they managed to create something completely original yet very familiar, all of it elevates the Star Trek saga and keeps it relevant. Bravo everybody!

And this show is just freaking gorgeous! Has to be the best looking series I’ve seen on TV.

Commodore Oh No You Didn't

I finished reading Last Best Hope by Una McCormack just prior to watching episode 4. WOW what an incredible tie-in. The book gives an amazing amount of detail and back story to this particular episode. Made the experience of watching it 10x richer. And thanks to the care the writing staff and producers put into lining things up, I’m pleased with how the novel and the comics synchronize with the TV show. We’re finally getting multi-media Trek in a way that tells a comprehensive and unified story. I’m enjoying it.

c d

“Commodore Oh No You Didn’t”! That’s an awesome name!

blackmocco

Oof. Didn’t enjoy that at all. This show isn’t clicking for me at all, sorry to say. The pacing just feels too slow, the scenes all seem too long. The story it’s unpacking isn’t grabbing me. Golden rule of moviemaking is “show, don’t tell” but Picard’s storytelling is being told back-to-front: the characters know stuff that’s clearly of vital importance to the plot but we’re just left playing catch-up via huge boring desperate exposition dumps. Ugh. What a huge disappointment.

TG47

blackmocco, I think that this works if we see it more like a character-driven show like Lost.

The flashbacks are working for me. I don’t need action to develop the story in every episode.

What’s not working is the use of the antagonists. I’m not sure why the writers need to show us what’s going on with them. I get the feeling that for some format convention they feel obliged to show the other side (as they did in Discovery with all the long Klingon scenes in the first season.). Definitely, less is better.

blackmocco

Oh no. I hated Lost too! Haha!

Honestly, I’m fine with the flashbacks. It’s the long boring exposition speeches between characters I’m really struggling with. Two or three talking heads in a room spewing forth important backstory to the plot in the most mundane fashion possible. Just expected something more inventive with Chabon attached.

I know, I know. Too negative.

TG47

Well, blackmocco it sounds as though we’re going to get more Lost-style exploration of the various characters over the season.

I listened to the Deadline podcast today and Kurtzman actually mentioned Lost’s large ensemble taking turns being the focus, and that while the show is called Picard, the other characters will be unpacked.

It sounds as though some of the concerns fans have had with Burnham taking up too much of the oxygen on Discovery may have been heard. Or, perhaps deeper dives into the ensemble may be part of Picard’s different look and feel.

Vulcan Soul

“I get the feeling that for some format convention they feel obliged to show the other side (as they did in Discovery with all the long Klingon scenes in the first season.)”

Then they dont understand what “showing the other side” means. Not LITERALLY showing the other side but still from an extremely one-sided angle (i.e., vilified, cartoon-like, two-dimensional, mustache-twirling), hut fleshing them out as three-dimensional characters with motivations we can at least understand on some level. I feel this has not happened in Trek for a long time, and least of all in recent movies.

But the way you explain it, I finally understand what was going on in Discovery season 1! They never intended to “show both sides” (of the issue) as I understand it. Just give the evil mustache-twirlers more screen time. Sad!

ML31

At this point it is feeling like the only reason they are even showing the cube and the spy siblings and the Jane Bourne cyborg are mainly just to remind the audience they are still there. That is something that needs to be done from time to time but usually it is done in such a way to heighten the tension or the antagonists threat. I’m not getting any of that here. They cut to the cube and I am now nearly completely tuned out. We cut back to Rios and his EH’s and I am curious again. Even Rafi is starting to grow on me a bit. But I am sad to notice that Stewart seems to have lost some of his Picard charisma in his advanced age. He used to make the character watchable. Now even that is not the case. Picard is still boring but now with less charisma. I am wanting the show to mainly be about Rios at this point. Star Trek Rios!

Vulcan Soul

“I am wanting the show to mainly be about Rios at this point. Star Trek Rios!”

You will be amused to hear that is EXACTLY what I was thinking about today. Give us a Picard spinoff about Rios swashbuckling his way through the galaxy, starring the irreverent Captain Rios and his fearless crew of six Emergency Holograms, all with the likeness of Captain Rios! A series for the boys!

Now, as I’m all for true equality, the girls surely should have their own series too. Let’s make it a Discovery spinoff. Starring Tilly, Tilly’s Mother, St. Michael, St. Michael’s Mother, and, of course, Space Hitler!

I won’t watch.

Vulcan Soul

The lack of humour here is truly astounding. Another cultural divide :/

blackmocco

Yeah, I neither know nor care about what’s happening on the Borg cube at this point. Probably not a great thing for them to hear seeing as that’s what the entire plot is supposed to be balancing on. The first episode did a good job of putting the plot into motion but it’s really lost some momentum since. FWIW, I’m don’t think I’m a particularly impatient viewer and I love serialized TV when it’s done well but this thing just feels very padded out. Seriously, we’re almost at the halfway point and it’s just craaaawwwwling along. I’m all for deeper character-driven stories but there still has to be something compelling about them.

Rios is okay, I’ll grant you, that vile and laughable attempt at an Irish accent notwithstanding. He’s coming across a little generic for me as the Han Solo/Malcolm Reynolds type but as we don’t see that kinda character in Trek very often, I’ll cut it some slack. (I do wish his ship was cooler looking though.)

Anyway, just my two cents. Other people seem to be digging it so good for them. Not trying to negate their experience watching the show.

ML31

I get the Solo Mal comparison. And I’m forced to admit it is similar. But I’m not as enamored with those characters and franchises (even though I did watch and enjoy most of them) so I guess that would be why I didn’t immediately make the connection. In the here and now I am interested in what happened to Rios that he would retreat to this situation. His reading selection and the EH’s in his image just add a curiosity to the character for me.

Dwight Abernathy

Another f-bomb? sigh. I guess this is par for the course on non-network TV nowadays… Swearing doesn’t bother me, I just don’t think it belongs on Star Trek.

And I’m a little worried that “The Orville” is going to go down the drain when it premiers on Hulu.

Luke Montgomery

People swear. It’s great. It’s useful. It’s realistic. Keep the F-bombs coming. Uptight Sunday school people lost the culture war long ago.

I use the foulest language I can think of on a daily basis, but I’d prefer it wasn’t in Star Trek. Two great tastes that do not taste great together.

VZX

Dr. McCoy swore as much as he could on 1960s network television. I think that if he was allowed, Roddenberry would have Bones swear as much as every day people do. So would Kirk, Scotty, and the rest!

Rich Matheson

I enjoy swearing as much as the next guy, and I will accept Chabon’s contention that people will always swear. However, does anyone nowadays swear the same way they did 500 years ago? When’s the last time you called someone a “varlet”? Are we saying we won’t swear differently 500 years from now? I realize “frak” was a little on-the-nose in BSG, and any “futuristic cussing” would be seen as a ripoff of that or Firefly’s “chinese cussing to foil the censors”, but the dialogue of this show (which I am enjoying for the most part) is way too contemporary for my taste.

Like our current culture has achieved the pinnacle of expletive technology. This far and no farther? Felgercarb.

martin

Exactly. The other shows I watch have it, but this show should not be so contemporary in the way it uses language. Also, I have a hard time picturing Roddenberry approving of it. I agree with many that Roddenberry thinking that there be no conflict between Federation or Starfleet folks was not right, but going so far in that they use curses the same way as we do in 2020, just doesn’t ring true. AND, if people watch Picard 50 years from now, it won’t sound right.

c d

A double dumbass on all of you!
>;>}

TG47

Good point Martin.

While the old cardboard sets with foam rocks date TOS, it’s clear that Roddenberry’s determination not to date the show with too many contemporary cultural behaviours (as opposed to issues) is really a major factor in its longevity.

For example, if Roddenberry had caved to the pressure to have accepted cigarette product placements (as was the norm in the era), TOS would never have had the decades of afterschool syndication runs that established Trek as a long-term franchise.

Kurtzman and Kadin should be challenging the production teams to limit elements that will quickly date the shows or limit future broadcast/streaming. It’s their role to strategically manage the long-term value of these shows. Writers will want their freedom, but good work can happen within the constraints (as Trek-lit has shown again and again).

Vulcan Soul

Im afraid you put too much faith into Kurtzman and Kadin. From what I see in all of their new series, and in the Abrams movies Kurtzman was a part of, they are the ones STEERING the use of contemporary cultural behaviors and fads, maybe even against the will of some writers and directors. In the end the tail is not wagging the dog.

Michael K

This is the first use of the F-Bomb that fits the scene and character, and I laughed instead of cringed.

Tiger2

That line from Rios was so funny for some reason. I literally laughed for several minutes. And the EHH seem really nice. :)

Drew

This week’s episode of “Absolute Candor” should have been titled: “Absolute Crap”. I’m really getting worried about
the new Picard series.

Trellium G

This episode was the best one so far. The pacing of the episode was much improved but I am still not very interested in the Narek/Soji Disney romance. I half expected them to break out in song when they were gliding across the floor. The cheese factor was off the charts.

Still do not like the Wing Commander inspired ship. It just does not look like it belongs in the Star Trek universe. But the old Romulan BoP looked great. Sort of wish now that Picard’s ship was a retired constitution class vessel.

Is captain Rios suffering from some kind of 24th century multiple personality disorder managed with holograms? It is very strange.

Seeing Seven at the end was a great hook. Can’t wait for the next episode!

Tiger2

“I half expected them to break out in song when they were gliding across the floor.”

“LOVE IS A FALSE DOOOOR!! LOVE IS A FALSE DOOR! LOVE IS A FALSE DOOR! WITH YOU! WITH YOU! WITH YOU! WITH YOU! Love is a false door!”

Sorry, I had no choice!

TG47

Tiger2, I’m increasingly convinced that Narek is going to turn or is already some kind of double agent working for Maddox.

If he’s been conditioned throughout his training to be able to gain the confidence of androids, he may have developed a fascination with them that goes beyond his mission.

If so, the plot idea is a good one, but clearly it’s execution isn’t selling any suspense or dramatic tension.

ML31

” I’m increasingly convinced that Narek is going to turn ”

I’ve been in that camp for a while now but haven’t said anything yet. Glad to see someone else seeing this.

Tiger2

I admit that never occurred to me until you just brought it up but yeah I can see that as a possibility looking back on it. He clearly likes Soji and don’t want to hurt her. I think that would be a cool twist if he was a good guy after all. And a very rare twist for Romulans lol.

Dvorak

He’s falling in love with Soji big time I think. That’s why he’s so hesitant to execute his sisters plan.

Matthew D.

Opinions seem mixed. I love Discovery. Picard I’m “meh” on. This was the first episode to really make me feel “meh.” I think the complaints of a “slow pace” are misguided – most of TNG is slooowwww in comparison to modern TV, and Picard. So, that’s not the issue.

I found the acting particularly bad in this episode, even from Patrick Stewart. And I’m not the type that typically notices acting, good or otherwise. I’m more engrossed in a story. But I was pulled out so many times by what felt like, to me, poor delivery.

I skipped the credits, so I didn’t know Jeri Ryan would show up – that was a fun surprise at the end.

All in all, it’s Trek, so I enjoy it on some level. And I will watch to the end. But I’m just not as interested. Perhaps once the plot really gets going I’ll enjoy it more. I haven’t written it off yet. But we are almost 50% through the season and it’s not gripping TV (whereas, I cannot wait for the next Disco episode each week).

blackmocco

TNG is slow, it’s true, but they were still capable of unpacking a story within 44 minutes. We’re four hours into this thing and it’s spinning its wheels.

Vulcan Soul

“We’re four hours into this thing and it’s spinning its wheels.”

This wouldn’t have happened if they had kept Picard on antigravs!

Rich Matheson

Picard’s initial scene felt to me like he was on stage, projecting to the back of the house. Very expressive and loud and not at all what I’d expect from the character. It felt very much like “Look at me, look at me! You’re in the presence of Sir Patrick Stewart, and you’re welcome!” That threw me a bit.

kmart

From what little I’ve read, I’m thinking 7 should get the ship and name it Picard when he dies.

Thorny

And now we know why the trailer showed Seven in what looked like Picard’s chateau when the show has moved on from that now. She’s actually in the La Sirenna’s hospitality suite!

But wouldn’t she name a ship for Janeway instead? You know, the woman who saved her from being a Borg forever?

kmart

No way Janeway. Maybe, ‘wrong way’ Janeway. (fan of Mulgrew, loathe the character.)

Vulcan Soul

Wrongway Janeway, haven’t heard that one in 20 years ;) And don’t forget Lameway ;)

People forget how utterly divided fandom was about Voyager back then. Especially DS9 fans and Voyager fans; few people were both.

kmart

VS,
To show you how little I think about VOYAGER, I honestly don’t recall ever hearing that one. I was thinking about, of all things, a GILLIGAN’S ISLAND episode I haven’t seen in at least 45 years about a flyer called Wrong-way Feldman arriving at the island. I don’t even recall getting onto VOY forums … the only thing I remember is getting into something on trekbbs where I was the only person complaining about the proliferation of fakes boobs on trek between Ryan and the Vulcan woman on ENTERPRISE. I guess taking that ‘preference for organic’ viewpoint was ‘a touch too much’ for most.

Vulcan Soul

Actually that’s exactly where it happened, on TrekBBS! The gushers vs. the bashers. And when Enterprise came around, it turned into a two-front war. Good old times!

DeanH

Yeah I think we need to keep things in perspective. Whether we’re talking about Disco, DS9 or Voyager, the fandom is probably neither more or less divided than it was in the past over shows like TNG or any of the other incarnations of Trek. The only difference is that naysayers today have social media to broadcast their opinions, so they have a bigger voice than ever before. For me, of all those peers who have been Star Treks fans since the show was running in syndication in the 1970s, ZERO percent – I repeat not even ONE – has said they don’t like Discovery and of course they are all loving or liking Picard. That may be a small sample size of only about 10 persons but it helps keep things in perspective.

TG47

My sample too DeanH.

They had concerns about Discovery, but they aren’t hating it.

Thorny

Well, my brother is a Trek fan since the ’60s, but he detests Discovery. So it isn’t ZERO percent for me.

As for the DS9/VOY era, I liked both very much, but preferred DS9. I don’t remember any major rivalry on rec.arts.startrek and I didn’t hang out on TrekBBS. The only serious rivalry, sniping I remember going on was DS9 vs. Babylon 5. I liked both of them very much too, but it took me longer to get in to B5.

Tiger2

When DS9 and VOY arrived I still wasn’t on the internet that much and I never heard of TrekBBS then (I had no idea it was that old) but I can say my friends who did watched Star Trek then did seem to like both but it was no doubt which seem like the more popular one at the time which was Voyager. I think DS9 didn’t have the same fanfare at the time it oddly has now lol. Even I liked Voyager more than DS9 early on but I generally liked both and watched loyally every week.

Tiger2

I would like that!

Vice Admiral Nakamura

Eh, whatever. But I like the sexy evil Romulan lady. She is sexy. Give her the spin-off series and not Michelle Yeoh, please. Thank you.

Kevin Lee

Yeah, she was the ever-alluring Jane Siegel Sterling on “Mad Men.”

Thorny

Peyton List. Strangely one of two actresses named Peyton List.

Dash_Fatbastard

I highly recommend reading Picard: Last Best Hope. It demystifies the backstory nicely.

Mark

Agree, should finish the audiobook on my commute home today.

JustinHanvey

Captain Rios listens to Klingon opera….Worf loved Klingon opera….could Worf have been Rios’ Captain that died?

Yikes I hope not.

Mark

I don’t expect so, as Worf was one of the people that Zhabon recommended Picard to contact to help him on this quest in episode 2.

Stiftl

No, Worf is alive as is Geordi. They were mentioned in episode 2.

Douglass Abramson

I kept trying to stick with it, but Voyager never gelled for me; so I would appreciate some help from a dedicated fan. I know it was hard to see clearly with it’s relative size to the other two ships and the speeds implied; but was Seven flying the Delta Flyer or possibly a derivative?

TG47

Not one of the Delta Flyer models (they built more than one), but definitely seems inspired by that.

It’s a good point to raise though since the warp-capable Delta Flyer was intended to give the Voyager’s crew more range, speed, maneuverability and defensive capacity for the dangerous Delta Quadrant than Federation shuttles provided.

Seven’s ship was a bit larger and better armed than a Delta Flyer though.

Seven definitely had the specifications, and could have built a more aggressive version for the Rangers.

Kick arse slicing up of a bird o prey!

His Eminence

Thank the heavens for Jonathan Frakes. This was the best episode by far and Elnor quickly became one of my favorite Trek characters in a very long time. For all the LOTR vibes he gives off, what a cool character.

Evan Evagora was fantastic.

DaveCGN

Finally we can play the game “name your favorite Romulan”!

For me, it’s Laris. I can’t really say I’m impressed with Elnor. He sure is whiny for a Romulan Ninja Warrior. Plus, I’m sorry but I have a hard time accepting him as one of the “good guys” after he straight up beheaded a guy. Maybe it’s just me.

Karl

Why did child Elnor have an American accent when adult Elnor has an Australian accent? Is this accent canon or has it all been ruined by Kurtzman who’s being fired on Monday?

TG47

Karl, if you’re trying to bring the complaints and dire rumours of the week from the YouTubers, you’re not likely to get many of us to engage here.

I am a Discovery hater (aside from the Pike episodes) and do not anticipate watching S3, but Picard has been enjoyable. I have a few nitpicks, but I don’t expect Picard to pick up where TNG left off in terms of overall quality.

It took a few seasons for TNG to come together, no doubt because the persons (actors, writers, producers) behind it needed time to gel, so to speak.

To be honest, I never really followed ST episodes until I could binge at least a season in some format… thanks to Netflix DVDs by mail (circa I don’t even remember).

The Trouble With Dribbles

Captain Janeway was quite fond of Picard, and likely spoke about how she was inspired by him, and aspired to be like him. Seven may even reveal HOW she knows of him.

The Trouble With Dribbles

I must say, originally TPTB claimed this was not a TNG sequel, and I was upset about not seeing the other characters of the era, maybe never even learning about what had come of them. (I even wonder what Q’s been up to these days) When I discovered it was another attempt at misdirection I was relieved, but now perturbed. I can see misdirecting to a certain extent, but lying about the series premise? What’s up with that, Alex?

Tiger2

I understand why they did it though. I think A. they didn’t want expectations running too wild and B. just to surprise us, which really worked.

I NEVER believed it was going to be some isolated Picard story with no one else involved in an era that has put out 20 seasons and over 100 characters, certainly not after how fact DIS became a back door pilot to a Pike show in its second season. ;)

I’m actually a little surprised how many familiar faces they squeezed in one season and we’re probably getting more by the time its over. But I think how they are doing it is really balanced and its still mostly about Picard even if the story involve so many others.

The Trouble With Dribbles

I can hardly wait to watch all 10 chapters at once. It should be roughly six hours and some change.
Get a bunch of people together, on a rainy Sunday, with a bunch of food and spirits, parked in front of a 90″ 4K screen with Star Trek Picard.
However you decide to watch, seeing the whole season meshed together seamlessly will be outstanding.

ML31

I don’t know how people can just sit and vegetate in front of a TV for 6 hours. The most episodes of anything I have ever sat through once is 3. Even when the show is interesting and leaves me really wanting to see where it is going to go from there.

But everyone is different I suppose….

Hat Rick

I love this show.

However, I do have a question about the most recent iteration of the hologram. I couldn’t understand why it acted the way it did.

Also, in this version of the future, can anyone program a hologram to act in any way it chooses? Raises some interesting questions about holograms and their artificial intelligence and independence.

Could it be that the same issues relating to synths equally apply to holograms?

VZX

I’m watching this episode for the third time, I am very impressed with the Romulan settlement on Vashti. It took some decent money to build that set. I hope we see it again!

TG47

VZX, someone on one of the threads noted the similarity between Zhat Vash and Vashti.

Somewhere else a reviewer noted that the Vulcan term for mind melds is Vash ‘slaya (??).

The root ‘vash’ is common to a lot of these. It could be lazy name generation, but given that this show has a linguist creating the Romulan language based on established Vulcan and Romulan words used in canon, I’m hopeful that the use of the ‘vash’ root is intentional.

Could it be that Vashti, a planet outside the blast radius chosen to be a temporary relocation hub has a hidden history and significance?

Given that secrecy is the foundation of Romulan culture, my bet is that we’ll be seeing Vashti again.

BOOTSTRAP

How come the fire continued to burn after Picard stopped the holodeck program? The birds stopped mid flight. Wasn’t the fireplace part of the program?

Nope. Picard lit a real fire, obviously.

helenofpeel

Slow, tedious and boring (except at the end of the episode with the Romulan attack and Seven’s help).