Review: ‘Star Trek: Picard’ – The Threads Begin Weaving Together in “Broken Pieces”

“Broken Pieces”

Star Trek: Picard Season 1, Episode 8 – Debuted Thursday, March 12, 2020
Written by Michael Chabon
Directed by Maja Vrvilo

Spoiler-Free Review

Picard and Soji make their way back onto La Sirena, triggering Rios to remember something dark from his past. Raffi talks to the disjointed pieces of Rios’s psyche, in the form of holograms of various ethnicities, to uncover the secrets in Rios’s mind and how they might connect to the mission at hand. Meanwhile, on the Artifact, a familiar face teams up with Elnor to make their way to the Queencell and try and gain control of the Cube.

The crew of La Sierena have a meeting — not quite a conference room table, but it will do.

[WARNING: Spoilers from here on]

 

Episode Discussion

Definitely one of the strongest episodes of Picard thus far, “Broken Pieces” is chock full of new information — and new mysteries — that kick the movement of the plot into high gear. It is probably the episode where we learn the most new information, but at the same time, the episode doesn’t feel overwhelming and still finds time for some very touching moments between Soji and Picard as they look back, together, on Data’s life.

Everyone gather round the glowing carousel of doom

The episode opens with a flashback to the “Grief World” where we see members of the Zhat Vash huddled around a glowing carousel of sorts (or maybe it’s one of those little tables that come in Pizza boxes?). A couple of familiar faces are there — Commodore Oh, Narissa Rizzo, and her aunt Ramdha, who we met in the psych ward of The Artifact a few episodes ago. Here we learn what has been frustrating a lot of fans: why in the world are the Zhat Vash so afraid of synthetics? And the answer: in what is sort of like the ultimate mind meld, the Zhat Vash absorb visceral visions of some kind of galaxy-scale apocalypse that occurred 200,000 years ago. An apocalypse apparently caused due to the advancement of synthetic life. The visions are so visceral that they cause most of the members of this elite circle of friends to instantly commit suicide either by disruptor or by ripping their faces apart. Grim. This vision is apparently very bad and very intense. (Side note: did anyone else glimpse quickly flashed image of a volcanic lava lake in this scene?)

Then, in just one line, we learn that Raffi’s “conspiracy theory” about the attack on Mars may not be so crackpot after all. Oh informs Narissa that they must begin their work… on Mars.

Flash forward to present day where Narissa tells a comatose Ramdha that they have discovered the location of the synth home world. Their time is finally here. Narissa also reveals that Ramdha and the other members of the assimilated Tal Shiar ship, “broke” the Borg cube by the “sheer force of her despair.” Despair based on the visions put in her mind on the Grief World? I guess so? This doesn’t make much sense, but it serves to remind us that these visions MEAN BUSINESS and are powerful enough to catalyze the formation of a cultish group like the Zhat Vash.

Prepare for renewal.

Annika has work to do

While Narissa finds ways to rid the Artifact of the remaining xBs, Elnor continues to fight for his life, taking a flash grenade in the face just before our favorite Fenris Ranger, Seven of Nine, comes to save the day. We get to feel one last beat of sadness when Seven asks, “Where’s Hugh?” But, there’s no time to stop and mourn. These two have got to get to the queencell and try and take over the cube. Not really sure what the plan is after that, but let’s take it one step at a time.

Upon arriving in the queencell, Seven quickly plugs in — Borg Queen style — and begins to command her new army of still Borgified Borg. But this whole plan is thwarted rather quickly as Narissa has the Borg jettisoned into space. Well, damn. Narissa and her Romulan buddies warp off to find the synth home world, leaving Seven and Elnor safe, if stranded.

Activating the Cube.

The broken pieces start to fit together

Our heroes Picard and Soji have now reunited with the rest of the ragtag La Sirena crew. But as soon as they beam in, something goes terribly amiss with Rios. His vision goes blurry, and he can’t believe his eyes as soon as they are set on her. Soji seems to have struck a pretty powerful chord with Rios. Is he okay? In response to this unsettledness, Rios decides to hermit himself away with a bottle of something strong in his quarters and takes a little trip down memory lane by opening up a box with a Starfleet insignia emblazoned on the side. Weird!

Raffi doesn’t like the sound of Rios’s self-quarantine, so she decides to take a deep dive into his psyche with the tools right in front of her — La Sirena’s emergency holograms, which each seem to represent a different piece of Rios’s mind. This was a super fun sequence! The banter between the holograms was hilarious, and Santiago Cabrera really got to show off his acting chops.

As Raffi prods deeper, she starts to realize that whatever is bothering Rios is connected to a theory she has had for a long time—one that probably got her kicked out of Starfleet, and definitely alienated her from her family. It was neat to see Raffi exploit the unique knowledge sets of each of the holos to solve few unresolved questions for herself, including that the “Conclave of Eight” is the name of a place, not a group of people, and that it likely refers to an astronomically improbable eight-star system. I’ll note that this is tangentially a really cool real life science thing. To date, there have been two septenary star systems discovered (that’s a system with seven suns), AR Cassiopeia and Nu Scorpii, but we don’t know of any systems with more than seven stars.

Having Raffi put together what is going on with Rios in tandem with putting together the pieces of her theory about the Mars attack really drove home for me how everything we have seen thus far in the series is connected. And, it didn’t feel contrived.

Raffi meets with the many facets of Chris Rios (in holographic form).

Jurati’s road to redemption, and Picard’s strange need to go to Starfleet

While Raffi puts the “broken” pieces together (yes, I’m going to keep using that callback), Jurati has a bit of a journey to take, and Picard has an admiral to holo-skype. I’m so glad that Jurati’s “betrayal” was found out now, rather than during some endgame scene in which our heroes are tied to the train tracks and Jurati maniacally laughs while explaining how she tricked them ALL ALONG! I can also appreciate that she came to terms with what she has done on her own (possibly with some prodding from Rios last episode). Now is the start to her long journey to redemption.

Meanwhile, Picard is off having a holo-convo with that one f**king admiral (why does she keep having to drop F-bombs? It was awkward the first time, and now it just feels like a running gag). This part of the story, I must admit, I really don’t get. Why does Picard want to keep coming back to Starfleet? After they treated him so poorly the last time, now he wants to go back? The stated motivation for going to Soji’s home world is to take her home, but it seems like they are expecting a fleet of Romulans to greet them when they arrive. Why else would Picard need an entire squadron? This felt like some necessary setup for next week’s episode, in addition to giving us a new destination… Deep Space 12.

This is my nice face.

“He loved you”

In the middle of all of this mystery-solving, Picard and Soji sit down for a much needed chat over some food. The two have been through a whirlwind of new places, new people, new information, and together they’ve helped Soji learn her true nature. Soji is going through an existential crisis, and Picard is supposed to be some sort of mentor figure to her, so it felt right that the writers took the time to give them a real, powerful bonding moment. We also get a hint that Soji may actually have more insight into her own history (and into Data) than we ever realized.

Watching Picard tell Soji about what Data was like was a real treat for us lifelong fans. Hearing the voice of Jean-Luc Picard talk about Data, and also admit some difficult truths about what he used to be like, is one of those things we all came here to see. We all know it: Picard used to be a bit of a jerk. He loosened up over the seven seasons of TNG, but he always felt uncomfortable expressing emotions. Contrast that to the Jean-Luc Picard we’ve seen in the movies and even more so to the Picard we’ve seen thus far in Picard. He and Data were close, in their own special way, and so it feels heartwarming to hear Jean-Luc talk about that. At the same time, it’s a bit heartbreaking that it took until after Data’s death for Picard to be able to express it.

Picard looks over Jurati as she confesses her sins.

If you like it then you should put a bow on it

Normally, I’m not a fan of expository scenes in which the main characters all tell each other things solely for the benefit of the audience, which is exactly what happened in the final scene of “Broken Pieces.” And while I would have found it a bit more palatable if it was clear who exactly each of our characters is speaking to (they all seem to already have all of the same information?), I still felt this scene was necessary to recap everything we learned in the episode. This was a plot-heavy week, and the writers did a nice job of tying it all up in a neat little bow for us. Side note: is anyone else as distracted as I am by that fact that La Sirena’s mess is just three picnic tables?

In the final sequence of the episode, the characters (and Soji in particular) seem to really fall into their roles. Soji is really accepting her whole self and taking charge of her own destiny. Quickly, Rios reminds her why he, and the rest of the crew, are there and solidify the idea that they are there as a team. Soji doesn’t have to go this alone. Picard is the mentor who gets out of the way when he needs to, just as he likes to think he did for Data.

We may have had a lot answered this week, but we are also left with a lot of questions. Rios met Soji’s other “twin” so many years ago aboard his old ship, the ibn Majid. Up until now, we’ve been thinking there were only two of the Soji-type synth. Are we about to come face to face with a planet full of Sojis? Just what is the plan of the Zhat Vash once they reach the synth home world? Will Starfleet actually step up to help Picard and his cause? And what’s the deal with Admiral “F-bomb” Clancy? Isn’t she evil, or… something (recall she phoned up Commodore Oh as soon as Picard left her office)?

All in all, I absolutely loved this episode. Some fans don’t seem to like the “mystery box” style of doing things (and, I can feel that way at times, too), but I have to admit that I was fully sucked into the story this week. Really loving the mystery, so let’s hope it pays off!

But, what really sold me on the episode was the final conversation between Picard and Rios. This show can certainly be darker in tone than any Trek before it, and I’ve certainly been vocal when I dislike how far Picard has taken things, but now the bill of goods being sold to me finally looks like it may come to pass. Just wait, they said, we need the shadows to have the light. Maybe that’s true after all. To show you what I mean, I’ll leave you with this quote by the great Jean-Luc Picard:

“They may be right about what happened 200,000 years ago. The past is written, but the future is left for us to write, and we have powerful tools, Rios: openness, optimism, and the spirit of curiosity. All they have is secrecy, and fear, and fear is the great destroyer, Rios.”

Chris Rios and Captain Vandermeer.


New episodes of Star Trek: Picard are released on CBS All Access in the USA Thursdays at 12:01 AM PT/3:01 AM ET. In Canada it airs Thursdays on CTV Sci-Fi Channel at 6PM PT /9PM ET and streams on Crave. For the rest of the world it streams Fridays on Amazon Prime Video. Episodes are released weekly.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Picard news at TrekMovie.

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Blue Phaser

Great review Kayla. Is it wrong that I might be enjoying the Shuttle Pod weekly reviews slightly more than the actual episodes of Picard? Regardless, both are providing great entertainment.

GarySeven

Blue Phaser, If that is wrong I don’t want to be right. :)

VZX

I second that. Great reviews and podcasts.

Btw I love the fact Narissa called her guard a “centurion.” Callback to “Balance of Terror.”

The “we are Borg” line rocked.

DeanH

I had to watch this episode twice before I really appreciated it as a good, or dare I say very good, episode. Picard, Soji, Rios, Raffi and Dr Jurati are all looking deep inside themselves and some do not like what they see. But that said, they are all looking to the future to try and make up for the past.
Meanwhile back on the Borg Cube, I can’t believe the writers made me feel bad for the drones being blown out into space and of course for the XBs. Great to see Seven come charging to the rescue of Elnor and although I don’t think it will happen, I would love to see Hugh get reanimated somehow.
Likes include all the character development and trips down broken memory lane, even the dangerous and sad memories. Good to learn more about Rios and his life as a Starfleet Officer. Also liked the explanation of the paranoia of the Zhat Vash. Of course who didn’t like the ending, “the past is written, but the future is left for us to write”. Btw, haha, Admiral “F-bomb” is a great nick name.
Dislikes, I didn’t like the fact that Picard left Soji with Jurati, but she does have super strength, so I guess she was not in danger. And unlike Data, she probably doesn’t have an off switch. Embarrassed to say that the use of the term “foremothers” was annoying at first, but only because I am a guy who is so used to male dominated terminology. Considering that women have lived in patriarchal cultures often times as second class citizens for much of the last 20 centuries, I am sure I can get used to some much deserved equality and screen time. Not sure what I think of the visions of Data as a destroyer, but I can certainly see Lore fitting that part.
Overall, I liked this episode – maybe not as much as last week but it sure moved the plot along and it did a great job setting up the last 2 hours of S1. (Where did the season go??)
It may be hard to say for some, but thank you CBSAA. With the health crises and no sports on TV, it is great that we have a place to escape to.
I am sure I will have more to say when I see this episode again but for now – Stay Healthy Everyone! LLAP

tom riker

i dare you

ML31

“And unlike Data, she probably doesn’t have an off switch.”

She kinda does. Didn’t she ‘go to sleep’ when she ‘talked to her mother’? Maybe that will come in handy when the times comes to deactivate her and the rest the universe ending machines. It’s also a nice call back to TBOBW. “Sleep Data.”

Elrond

Thanks for the thoughtful review, Kayla. One thread I’ve been thinking about: clearly Bruce Maddox made some kind of breakthrough AFTER the attack on Mars. The synths on Mars seemed less human or sentient than Soji or Dahj. More like B4. Did Maddox make this breakthrough on his own? Or did he have help? Perhaps ultimately from a newly acquired single positronic neuron from which Data’s memories were reconstructed? Or even perhaps from Data himself in some new form on the planet with the three red moons?

Hauke Fischer

The novel goes into more detail about the “A-500” workers. They are not based on positronic technology, but rather bio-neural circuitry.
They have limited AI, but are basically just humanoid looking shells for construction purposes. There are some Starship parts that have to be hand-crafted due to the materials involved, so the available labor to do so is the major bottleneck holding back production of the rescue fleet, causing LaForge to seek out Maddox.
Jurati and Maddox work together on the A-500s, but Maddox resents them as he regards them as mere “toys”, and keeps looking into positronics on the side (which is why the official assumption is that there was some form of security flaw that got overlooked).
Maddox flees Earth shortly after the Mars attack, and like Soong appears to have made a breakthrough, most likely by combining technology from a Soong-type android (we don’t know what happened to Lore’s remains) and bio-neural circuitry (hence the splicing-two genuses of orchid reference).

GarySeven

What novel? Sounds interesting to read.

Una McCormack’s tie-in novel ‘The Last Best Hope’.

McCormack was definitely the right choice among the Relaunch Trek-lit authors for this novel. She is Irish-British, is a professor of creative writing, and has a background in sociology.

She worked closely with Kirsten Beyer on this one, so it maps very closely to the series.

Dénes House has a review of the book here on TrekMovie that was posted about a month ago.

Elrond

Thanks, Hauke! That confirms the onscreen impression of the A-500s. On another site, someone speculated that “Beautiful Flower” had Data’s appearance. We’ll have to see, of course, but one does wonder about the prominence of orchids in the series.

YKeeg

You’d think if Beautiful Flower had looked like Data/Lore/B4, they would have instantly recognized him. I mean, Data’s a friggin’ Starfleet legend. The center of a major JAG case, sacrificed himself to save his captain during the Romulan “civil war”, prevented Romulan incursion in the KLINGON civil war… Was the only android in Starfleet and would have been the subject of a MASSIVE news cycle after the Mars attack (and he was brought up in the anniversary news cycle in episode 1). He’s as close to a celebrity as anyone could get. Not just a Starfleet celebrity, but he’d be a household name.

ML31

Those devices were quite obviously never meant to be anything more than tools. Doing exactly what they were programmed to do. Very much doubt anyone would take potential AI creations just to do things simple robotic devices could do.

Mike S.

In Trek canon, the Iconians were around 200,000 years ago…I wonder if this is gonna tie in with them or if that number is just a coincidence.

I wish fans would stop using the word “canon.” People always sound so ridiculous when they say that.

matt barnes

Why? They’re just talking about what has already been established in the Star Trek universe.

YKeeg

Yeah. It’s a word that means a thing. Just because you tire of hearing a word doesn’t make it stop meaning what it means.

1.a general law, rule, principle, or criterion by which something is judged.
“the appointment violated the canons of fair play and equal opportunity”

2.a collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine.
“the formation of the biblical canon”

We judge Star Trek based on established precedent. If a new story violates that precedent, it damages or cheapens the story as a whole. Because whom are we supposed to believe; the ones that wrote the story that we love, or the ones who change it because they had “franchise rights” or whatever the hell legal term applies?

The Zhat Vash is now Trek’s second worst villain, after Control from S2Disco. Suicide Squad initiation not withstanding, they just don’t make a lot of sense. Neither does The Destroyer. I don’t see this paying off well.

Jako

Well we dont know the purpose of the destroyer yet…. So how can you they it doesnt make sense?

Corinthian7

I don’t think they are the shows villains per se. By season 2 I’d be surprised if Picard won’t be working with them. I can see them serving a similar role as the Anla’Shok/Rangers in Babylon 5.

Olaf Leonhardt

„Show, don’t tell“ is one of the principles of good movie making. I was disappointed that there was so less showing and so much telling in this episode.

Vulcan Soul

To me, it was a good episode, and more importantly, the first episode since the premiere worthy of the name “Star Trek”. (last week’s failed as a nostalgia trip, being soured by the gratuitous killing of Hugh and flat-out making the Federation responsible for Riker’s son’s death) Good news, but sadly still not a good track record at all so far for season 1. If I generously presume the last two episodes will live up to the potential of this one, I get only a 40% success rate this season of episodes I enjoyed as good Trek. I looked at a list of the much reviled TNG season 1 and counted; I enjoyed 14/26 episodes on there which is higher both in relative and more importantly, absolute numbers. I think the concept of “Peak TV” with short seasons, only one storyline and tight serialization has disproven itself, at least for Trek. Yes, previously Trek had a lot of filler and clunkers but somehow the writers managed to churn out more better written, more memorable and worthy episodes every single year, despite writing two and a half as many on a very tight schedule! Or maybe they were just better writers?

The narrative problems in THIS episode (despite its Trek value) seem to hint at that. Even after 20 years of serialization in TV, and three seasons of Trek on their watch, Kurtzman & Co. have not managed to reach the level of DS9’s last seasons or even Enterprise season 3 in competently writing an arc that is well-paced and believable from start to finish. Even this episode is not exempt from that. There was the mother of all infodumps in the middle of the episode where characters literally sat down to advance the plot for the viewer in telling each other (and the audience) what actually happened. How they knew some of these things (such as Raffi about Commodore Oh) is beyond me. It’s not a natural evolution of the plot. As many predicted, the series is now rushing through to the solution due to the extremely slow plotting and pacing at the beginning, at the expense of plot logic, taking some extreme short cuts. Clancy’s change of heart (if it’s not a red herring) was another such shortcut. Shouldn’t we have seen this pivotal moment just HOW Picard convinced her that he’s not just spinning conspiracy theories again?

Nevertheless, I could forgive some bumpy writing if the heart is at the right (Trek) place and the story NOT intentionally mean-spirited and dystopian, as in this episode. However, there was one letdown: the weakest link of the series (and all of Kurtzman/Abrams Trek) continue to be the villains, even if Narissa got some much needed motivation in this episode. Unfortunately it is too little, too late, and she was already seen mass-murdering again later on (fortunately not graphically this time), to destroy any relatability or credibility she could have. It’s like they *must* convince us that the other side can only be the worst kind of evil, mass-murderers, which mostly discredits the writing as having any relevance (including real-world).

Just imagine for a second: wouldn’t it be so much more amazing if Narissa and Narek were written like Garak, ruthless secret agents who only kill when they absolutely have to but otherwise act in a measured and logical way stemming from their radically different world view, one that can be understood and related to once you understand their motivations and different life experiences?

kmart

Comparing the work of these writers to those who wrote Elim Garak is not really possible on any scale I can imagine. I mean, they all got paid, but outside of that … ?

Vulcan Soul

Kurtzman’s problem (and therefore, as for right now, Star Trek’s) is Star Wars’ Kennedy problem: he can’t REALLY hire showrunners and writers that think differently from him and would do things differently. Or at the very least, he is not letting them (Is that why Chabon moved on to his own projects?) As a result, the tone and writing style (and problems) of Picard and Discovery is closer than even the Berman era shows, which didn’t even strive for that explicitly.

Timo47

“Shouldn’t we have seen this pivotal moment just HOW Picard convinced her that he’s not just spinning conspiracy theories again?” This sentence highlights my biggest problem with this series: it keeps skipping over the good parts! And instead it spends a huge amount of time on pointless side-stories (Freecloud) and shallow characters (Narissa, Narek) that could just have been removed from the series entirely without impacting the story. I already had a bad feeling after Picard’s first meeting with the Admiral in the 2nd episode. Here I thought that we would have a pivotal discussion that properly explains Starfleet’s stance on why it took a course that’s different to what we saw in previous Trek series. It could have been a classic scene like there have been so many in Picard’s ready room. And isn’t that why you bring back Patrick Stewart and the character of Picard? I knew it would be for me would I ever have the chance to write for Star Trek. But apparently not for these writers. They felt they should just cut that scene short with an F-bomb. That’s of course much easier to write. Same thing happened with Seven where she’s affected greatly by what happened with Icheb. Previous Trek shows would have dedicated an entire episode on it. And it may have been just one episode that was “forgotten” by the next one, but at least it would have been dealt with properly. But now that Trek has become serialized and has the opportunity to deal with this kind of events in a meaningful way over multiple episodes, the writers instead decide that they “don’t have enough time” for that and again use a shortcut with that gruesome opening scene. In doing so they robbed us of meaningful character development. The character of Seven deserved better than this. Of course, this show is titled Picard and not Seven which makes me wonder why she’s even in here. And I feel she just got “inserted” into the story only because Kirsten Beyer is a writer on the show. Seven is not needed in this story. Her role in this latest episode could just as easily have been taken over by Hugh. Which might also have speared us another pointless death of a beloved character. And speaking of his death: Seven learning of it was again “cut short” by these writers. I also have a huge problem with how the story and the reveal of its mysteries is structured. One example is that in episode 6 (and also the episodes before that) we spend a huge amount of time with Narek and Soji trying to access here secrets/dreams. And then we come to episode 7 where Picard has to learn the same thing. But for us as a viewer, it’s just covering the same information a second time. It would have been much more interesting if they had cut the reveal of the planet with the red moons out of episode 6 and let us discover it together with Picard while they were with the Rikers. In fact, I would have applied this principle for much of the series: cut all the scenes with Oh, Narek and Narissa from the first episodes and let us discover everything together with Picard. And I have a nagging feeling that this is how the show was originally conceived by Chabon. But when it came time to flesh out the series Kurtzman and his team decided to “spice” things up with all these extra characters. Probably afraid that the series would else have been perceived as too boring. It would certainly explain why I sometimes feel like I’m watching 2 different series one scene to the next. Cutting out a lot of those villain characters (or reducing their scenes) would have helped with 2 other problems I have with this show. First: Picard is supposedly the main character in this show. Yet, instead of being the character that drives the show he’s just a bystander, often blind to things happening around him. And from time to time he gets to reminiscence about Data (to a point where I now feel they are making his relationship with our favorite android into something much bigger than it ever was). I really wonder how people who have never seen TNG are perceiving this Picard character. If it were me, I would probably be wondering why he’s in the title of the show. Maybe Star Trek Soji or Star Trek Synths would have been a better title. Because there’s very little Picard in this show. Second: at the same time we would also have had more time getting to know his new crew. Because this was now episode 8 and it felt like the first episode that finally decided to spend some quality… Read more »

Pleaseletmecritique

Agreed with everything. Plot contrivance after plot contrivance. And the only excuse they have is “we didn’t have enough time to do it properly, because there is so much ‘story’ to tell” – and they have too much to do…because of whose fault?

Disco and Picard – Write yourself into a corner after corner to try and show the audience that you (the writers) are smarter than they are.

ML31

But they had plenty of time! Did anyone see those first three episodes and not think everything in them could have been pared down to two? Or one that was maybe 70-75 minutes long? Also those early episodes were pretty short. In the low 40 minute range. So there is at least 16-18 more minutes to tell your story. I don’t buy the “we didn’t have enough time” argument. Further, no reason they couldn’t expand the episode total to 12 or 13 either.

YKeeg

And a lot of screen time throughout the series has been dedicated to restacking information that we already know. Every new person they meet, they have a “previously on Star Trek: Picard” scene explaining everything that’s happened thus far, in two different concurrent storylines. If they replaced those scenes with some variation of the new person saying “Well, that was an interesting story, Jean-Luc” or “you have been so stunning and brave, Soji”, we’d have saved enough time for two full episodes.

Picard’s Patty

In complete agreement!

StarTrick

I also wished for a full episode dealing with Seven & Icheb – also because it would have given us a chance to get to know the Fenris Rangers firsthand. Could have been interesting to fletch this out a bit more. The way it is done right know, they throw a lot of stuff into the show(s) which is just there, you have to take anything for granted without dealing with it for real. I’m really not sure what even the writers find so appealing on this approach of writing.

ML31

I get what you are saying. This show felt like they wasted a lot of time up front when that time could have been used to really flesh out some things. Like an entire episode outside of the main story that was strictly devoted to 7 and what she has been up to. Her building a relationship with Icheb. Instead we get a quite flashback that is supposed to tell us everything we need to know. Maybe it did but since this is a 10 episode arc we could have devoted some time to that. Pretty easily considering what a waste of time the first 3 episodes were.

Also… Another who sees a character who appeared in two episodes (one of them amazingly forgettable)? I’m kinda stunned to hear the love for Hugh suddenly come out of nowhere.

ML31

I do think that the antagonists are a problem. I’d like to see more gray on both sides, to be honest. But they are getting closer. It is quite obvious that the goal of the double secret Tal Shiar is the right thing to do. Yet they are going about it in the most unimaginably heinous and evil way. So much so that it makes it difficult to accept that their goal is the right one. And it is disturbing that at this point, the “heroes” of the story are on the side of the destruction of the galaxy. Yet for some reason they are refusing to perceive it. There are too many absolutes going on here. Including contradicting absolutes on the same side on both sides!

But overall the show is doing better than anything Discovery ever did. But it is still apparent that Secret Hideout, while on the right track, still has a long way to go just to get to mediocre story telling.

Vulcan Soul

The problem with the siblings is that they can’t walk them back to credible characters now that they are mass-murdering cartoons. Or maybe they will, but any reasonable part of the audience wouldn’t buy it. It is the same as with Space Hitler. Once a character starts shooting innocent people left and right, they can’t be redeemed but through death, no matter how “delicious” the producer declares her to be. These are the basic rules of drama (not to speak of ethics).

Loved the review, and loved even more hearing the review being read by Kayla inside my head, after listening to so many Shuttlepods! :-)

Tom Schoon

Sorry if this has already been discussed but did Picard say he was lookout on the Reliant?
If I heard that correctly I’m assuming that means there’s a USS Reliant-B or C? Just thought I’d put that out there…nice little nod either way.

Also, I enjoyed Picard’s look when Rios mentioned Cochran; as if Picard was remembering the events of ‘First Contact’…

TS

Hauke Fischer

It’s from a deleted scene from The Measure of a Man when he talks to Admiral Nakamura.
It would have to be another Reliant, the A, B, C etc thing keeping the same registry is only done for the Enterprise in on-screen canon afaik.

Tom Schoon

Ah, thanks. I didn’t know any of that. :)

Thorny

The faux Yamato was NCC-1305-E in “Where Silence Has Lease”, but the real Yamato that went kablooey in “Contagion” had a different registry.

Picard’s time aboard the Reliant was established in “The Measure of a Man.”

ML31

I think the Enterprise, for some goofy reason, is the only ship to get letters at the end of the number. There very well could be different versions of the Reliant out there over the decades. And none of them need have a letter. That should have been what they did with the Enterprise from the beginning. All those final letters to is remind us this is not THE Enterprise. We know that and don’t need to be reminded all the time.

Picard’s Patty

It was a dreadful episode! So much chit-chat trying to explain the awful storyline.

So stop watching. The comments sections here are so full of dysfunctional fanboys.

The Collector

So stop reading. The comments sections here are so full of people resorting to petty name calling from people who don’t know how to ignore opposing opinions. IDIC.

kmart

Stop trying to dictate the behavior of others.

The Collector

That’s a bit of a contradiction lol

However, I wouldn’t impose myself on others. They should have the freedom to do whatever they want as long as it doesn’t impinge others’ freedom. This is a core principle of Star Trek and it’s amazing there are so many authoritarians who call themselves fans.

Picard’s Patty

I have been a Trek fan since I was three years old, back in 1973, watching reruns on TV. Don’t tell me that I have no right to give an opinion about this show. I really wanted to like Star Trek Picard. I loved the first episode, but the storyline and some of the acting is atrocious! Even so, I will continue watching and I hope the production team ups their game on the second series.

Just because some TV show has “Star Trek” in its title does not automatically make for good TV, as this show is evidence of. In fact, it hurts me to say that I think this is the worst Star Trek show.

kmart

My post was aimed at Rios, not you, Collector.

Thorny

I enjoyed the episode, but it isn’t my favorite of the show.

Hauke Fischer

The reason for Picard to go back to Starfleet is clear:
It is more than he can handle himself, and now, with everything that has happened he has concrete proof, and Clancy agrees with him.
Her STFU comes when Picard keeps railing against her after she’s already chosen to help.

Dvorak

I wish she’d stop with the f-bombs now. Its very unprofessional.

Ricardo Alardo Schmardo

The looser language is probably because it’s not 1989 and terrestrial TV anymore. They do because they can. I find it refreshing tbh, people from all walks of life swear when they feel it expresses their point better.

ML31

True. But there is a time and a place. No one where I work has dropped an F-bomb within earshot of another person. At least, I have never heard it and I have not done it. Yet there are some friends where I will drop them left and right with. In the context of Clancy talking to Picard, it felt like the wrong place and the wrong time. On each occasion.

But the above comment does not in any way alter my opinion of the show overall. Not in the slightest.

Ricardo Alardo Schmardo

In the context of her conversation with Picard it maybe did feel out of place, to be fair as a high ranking official she probably had a lot of strong emotions about the Romulan undercurrent in the Federation, the subversion angle is pretty immense. She’s likely had quite a few terse run-ins with him already.

And for Picard, TNG was basically based on him and the Federation’s principles standing together shoulder to shoulder, something that this show has seen undermined due to the events prior… IMO the scene is somewhat pivotal for Picard and his bond with the Federation being restored or at least partially healed.

Am enjoying it all either way.

Rock Dirty

Dude, have you ever heard military people talk?

Yes, I have for one.

Again, Rock Dirty, time and place is important as well as relative rank.

Clancy’s language isn’t appropriate to the circumstance.

blackmocco

Plot prediction: the fleet will be there to destroy the synths now that Picard has provided the location.

Vulcan Soul

Then SEVEN turns up with the Borg cube to destroy the fleet! Who’s gonna take that bet? ;)

StarTrick

Why are there only women in Zhat Vash in the opening scene? From what we know, Narek is Zhat Vash too, right?
…Well, perhaps men are not allowed on Aia. The Grief World. ?

That aside, I’m at least somewhat relieved that this does look less and less like some weird Borg origin story.

Danilo Schöneberg

Well, from the look of things men aren’t allowed anywhere in this show. Starfleet? All women except the receptionist. Most Bad-a** Romulan fighters? Nuns except for one boy they kept as a pet. Main Villain? An all-female group of Romulans except for one guy, who’s there because his sister seems to fancy a light spot of incest now and then, oh, and a biker gang that gets their rear-end handed to them by a 92-year old pensioner and his two pet Romulans.

Heaven knows what point Kurtzman is trying to make. It certainly isn’t about gender equality, because we had that perfectly in TNG.

Kaitlyn

it’s funny you think TNG had full 100% equality… i recommend you watch Renegade Cut’s videos about rick berman… he also hated gene’s vision of humanity, and was rampantly sexist on-set, twisting scripts to cut out gay extras, only allowing women to have nurturing-type roles after yar left (and he kept reducing yar’s involvement in cool action too, like Q sending her to the “penalty box”…).

your analysis of how few men there are seems to be deliberately missing how many men there actually were and are? rios, his captain, his holograms, raffi’s son, zhaban, maddox, hugh, elnor, narek, various xBs, the romulan hit squads… and that’s just off the top of my head. you’re acting like there’s no men in the cast at all. which would honestly be fine if it were to happen, but that’s not even what happened.

Thorny

Is Narek actually Zhat Vash? I was under the impression he was just someone with the skill set the Zhat Vash needed to get close to Soji. He certainly is nothing like Narissa.

StarTrick

@Thorny: Yes, you are right, off course. Narek being in Zhat Vash was just an assumption on my part, as so far we haven’t got any confirmation on that unlike Oh, Narissa & Ramdha.

And when it comes to all this forced “wokeness”, I’m glad I’m usually watch stuff with the mind of a child, meaning: kids wouldn’t pay attention to that, and I mostly notice stuff like that myself only when someone points it out. However, that opening scene in this episode was just a little too obvious. Like the “powerthruth-nuns”, Zhat Vash seems only for women, and I just don’t get the message. Are women who watch this now supposed to be super-happy that they have all these “role-models” to look up to? And Admiral F-Bomb Clancy? Because all this is so f*cking cool? I dunno, I think Star Trek handled diversity and equality usually much better than most others, that you can say for sure, so I’m not sure what this “Course correction” is supposed to be. When I look up ratings for movies/shows in the internet it seems to me that the vast majority of people has enough of these politics already.

What I would like to see however, would be: An episode from “The Orville” where the ship gets to a planet where that wokeness-stuff is going on heavily, right now. That kind of plot would be classic Star Trek and it would give the writers a chance to really discuss this, unlike all the other shows and movies where it’s just “there”.

ML31

I will not notice the attempts at being “woke” (I guess if you want to call it that) unless things really appear to be out of whack in some form or another. I don’t see it as often as some like to complain about but I DO see it from time to time. It’s usually easier to spot when the show or movie is not good. I generally wont discuss such things here because it seems too many here take such comments too personally.

Fasafan

Same here, ML. I’ve laughed out loud at the pompousness of some of those involved with Discovery when they discuss how, basically, the evils of the Mirror Universe are a direct reflection of the evils of a certain RL political “side” – especially since I, as a fan, never caught the correlation while watching the show BECAUSE I, myself, DON’T believe in slavery, oppression, totalitarianism, etc.!! What a bunch of crap!

Same with Picard: Their silly metaphors regarding our current world don’t resonate with me because I don’t flippin’ agree with Starfleet, the Federation, or the Zhat Kumquats either!!!

Vulcan Soul

” especially since I, as a fan, never caught the correlation while watching the show BECAUSE I, myself, DON’T believe in slavery, oppression, totalitarianism, etc.!! ”

Right? This is why those who never watch the Behind the Scenes stuff are totally taken aback when someone munches TPTB’s political points AS PRESENTED ON SCREEN, and attack the messenger instead of the message.

Sometimes I think Colonel Kurtz & Co. are just the ultimate cynics who don’t believe in any of this BS either and promptly and consistently forget about any of it mid-season (then, it’s about “evil out to destroy life as we know it / the Galaxy”), at least in Discovery season 2 and now Picard. So when they spout their harebrained political manifestos on the media, it’s all about attracting a certain audience to the show, for the right values… you know, the financial ones ;)

Trek in a Cafe

More importantly why are they all in heels and look so goth?

Eric Cheung

The mess hall tables reminded me of the pre-fab fast food tables from the Defiant mess hall.

Saiyan

Wonder how much did the events in the VOY episode “Survival Instinct” influence Seven’s idea to form a mini collective? Really enjoying how the deep cut references is reminding me of more obscure Star Trek episodes and encouraging me to re watch them.

Not a huge fan of the idea of a mentally disturbed Ramdha disrupting the collective so much the cube was disconnected but the precedent was set with the NextGen “Descent” two parter episode.

Looking forward to how the writers reconcile Soji’s planet with Maddox’s lab being destroyed as established in “Stardust City of Rag”

Thorny

I’m leaning toward Maddox still being alive, and that was a decoy synth Maddox which Jurati offed. Picard & Co. are going to find the Maddox and a Data-clone (B4, Lore?) on that planet in the final scene. Soji spoke of her ‘brothers’.

ML31

Her “brothers” should be others like her. If it’s Data or something lame like that the show will have a Lorca sized hole to climb out of.

YKeeg

Actually, Maddox’ scraggly look fits pretty well with someone who would call himself Beautiful Flower. It’s cooool, maaaaan….

He’d have a Soji-necklace but it would be MEDALLION SIZED.

Marcelo

I thought it was clear that Clancy was reporting Picard to Oh because Oh is head of Starfleet Security, not that Clancy is in on the conspiracy. Her involvement is unwitting. I’m curious if Picard told Clancy that Oh is involved (wouldn’t he know that bc of Jurati?)

Hi Marcelo,

Picard’s deep dive discussion with Jurati took place after the call to Clancy (because Jurati was unconscious earlier).

One of the points left unspoken in the group discussion was that relying on Starfleet assistance was a risk now that it was established that Oh was intervening with black flag orders and forced mindmelds and mental blocks.

Picard should be getting back to Clancy with this additional information, but how to do this with Starfleet Intelligence compromised is an issue.

Thorny

“Picard should be getting back to Clancy with this additional information, but how to do this with Starfleet Intelligence compromised is an issue.”

Back-channels through a certain Klingon Captain of a certain famous Starship, dare I hope?

Danilo Schöneberg

What was sadly omitted was that Oh’s forced mind-meld was effectively rape. All those people calling for Jurati to redeem herself, should get their heads around the fact that her mind was forcefully invaded. Just like the ENT episode “Fusion” the brutal invasion of someones mind by forced mind-meld is cuasually brushed aside when it effectively is just as brutal an invasion as being assimilated by the Borg.

ML31

That’s not how I saw it. I saw it as Oh merely showed her images. Nothing more. It was enough to get Agnes on their side. Although why Agnes didn’t rip her own face off when confronted with this information I don’t know. Nearly all the super hardened and trained double secret Tal Shiar killed themselves when presented with this. Why was Agnes so stable?

I just wish these reviews were better edited and had a lot less plot-retelling in them. Professional reviewers know to focus more on providing analysis and less on retelling the plot. This review, with all due respect, is very amateurish and filled with typos.

Thorny

I like them, because they explain things that I might have missed or didn’t understand on viewing, such as that Ramdha ‘force of will’ business. I have decent TV/stereo system, but sometimes it is damned hard to understand what an actor is saying.

ML31

I used the closed captioning when some dialog gets blurred. Sadly the CC on CBSAA doesn’t always work. It’s also of the black bar type. Not just the unobtrusive subtitles seen on Netflix or cable.

Ian

Failing some unlikely revelation that they were being manipulated, the coincidence of Rios happening to have met another of Soji’s twins is utterly absurd and hard to get over.

Seven is wasted here – she has legitimate intriguing fears about rejoining the Borg… which are dispensed with in a flash.

The scene between Narissa and her aunt was a tepid attempt to give her depth – far too little and far too late. Compound that with the flashback scene revealing that the Zhat Vash, who hate Synths and have acted evil this whole time, were also responsible for the evil Synth attack. Thrilling.

Picard, Raffi and Jurati have some lovely scenes and the Rios holograms are fun, but there are some fundamental broken pieces in this show that just don’t hang together at all.

Picard’s Patty

Completely agree. The story is a mess. Also, they’ve made our fine Captain Picard look like a feeble idiot.

ML31

In this episode I would agree. But not overall in this show…

CJA

Hopefully the writers didn’t forget that Borg can survive in the vacuum of space (ibid First Contact, Voyager). Hopefully the jettisoning was just a delay.

Danilo Schöneberg

Considering that the writers apparently have never seen any Star Trek before, I wouldn’t make a bet on it. “The Neutral Zone”, a TNG first season episode established that money and social injustice didn’t exist anymore, yet 30 years later in this show Raffi slums it out in the desert. If they get such fundamental things wrong, don’t expect them to get the finer details right.

It’s not clear CJA how well the Borg will survive in vacuum when not fully active.

The majority of the Borg on the cube were in stasis, not just regenerating. Seven had just begun to wake them when they were ejected.

CJA

A man can hope :D

ML31

But they would be floating around only to be sucked into whatever gravity is affecting that region. Perhaps a star or a planet. Death is the only outcome here.

Danilo Schöneberg

It was the first episode that remotely deserves the name “Star Trek”, but it fails to reconcile me with this show. ST: Picard is what you get when you let the show be run by someone who resents the very vision of Gene Roddenberry. I’m talking about you, Kurtzman.

But the even bigger problem is that Sir Patrick thought he needed to get involved with the writing. He’s one of the most brilliant actors this planet has ever seen, but as a writer he’s spectacularly untalented. This show has what? 10, 12 executive producers? What happened to “too many cooks spoil the broth”?

Then there’s the “Game Of Thrones” rip-off elements. Why is it that there has to be a cold blooded murder in pretty much every episode? Preferably a character the fans care about. And why does it need to be shown in so graphic a detail, it makes a crime scene investigator puke?

And what happened to gender equality in the future? In the TNG era it was the most normal thing in the world to see both female and male captains, both female and male admirals. In this timeline the universe seems to be a matriarchy. The highest ranking (active) male Starfleet member we’ve seen is the receptionist in Maps and Legends. Heck, even the villains are an all-female group. And every woman that happens to meet Picard is giving him a right ol’ bollocking or drops the f-bomb on him? Seriously?

But the biggest insult to any Star Trek fan is making the Federation into something that makes the Trump administration look like the last liberal stand. It was established in TNG that material needs, greed and money no longer existed, yet Ruffi parks her slum shed right next to the Vasquez Rocks (another grave insult) and ostensibly lives in poverty? Oh, and everybody seems to hit the bottle at the drop of a hat, too?

The whole point of Star Trek has always been to show what a bright future may look like if we get our stuff together. Now it apparently shows that things in 400 years time are exactly the same as now. Well, sorry, for that I don’t need to watch Star Trek, I get the same from the 6 o’clock news.

Jay

Danilo. Everyone knows Star Trek is a reflection of current politics. We are not in the 60s or the 90s. Kurtzman never met Roddenberry. Everyone is doing their best to have new Star Trek series.

We always looked at our characters from inside the Federation. Picard (until episode 8), Raffi and Rios are no longer Starfleet. It is natural to have this show presenting this story form the outside, like DS9, from a different point of view.

David Moss

Kayla, Good review but don’t you find it such a weakness that Rios just happens to be the one person in the entire universe that has seen Soji (Jana) before? Also, don’t you find it so weak that everything in this show seems to model itself off of Battlestar, and now even more so with “everything has happened before, and everything will happen again?”

While I have enjoyed much of it, those two above have just pulled me right out of the story.

That’s absurd. This show is nothing like BSG.

David Moss

I’ve posted this before. Lets look at the similarities:

1. Synths that are made of flesh and blood. So are the final 12 Cylons.
2. Duplication of a synth single neuron. Sounds very close too, or the first step in Cylon regeneration.
3. Closing the first episode disclosing there is a twin. On BSG, it was the disclosure of Sharon (Boomer) and on Picard the disclosure of the Daj’s twin.
4. Rouge synths attacking an entire planet devastating it. Sounds a lot like the Cylons attacking Caprica.
5. Banning synths from society. Remember in BSG, network computers were banned after the first Cylon attack.

And now the fact that this synth thing has been repeating and going on over the history of the galaxy… BSG says “all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.” Exactly what the Romulans are saying.

This is too much to be merely a coincidence.

bassmaster22

You are correct. This is like a BSG spinoff based on the most recent episode. Defenders will be blind to the similarities but you’ve got people trying to stop a robot revolt from repeating itself a few hundred thousand years later…BSG.

Honestly, you could watch Picard after BSG and it would fit perfectly.

ML31

It’s not the same show. But I give you there are some big similarities. Particularly the ‘I don’t know I’m artificial’ thing.

David Moss

I’ve posted this before. Lets look at the similarities:

1. Synths that are made of flesh and blood. So are the final 12 Cylons.
2. Duplication of a synth single neuron. Sounds very close too, or the first step in Cylon regeneration.
3. Closing the first episode disclosing there is a twin. On BSG, it was the disclosure of Sharon (Boomer) and on Picard the disclosure of the Daj’s twin.
4. Rouge synths attacking an entire planet devastating it. Sounds a lot like the Cylons attacking Caprica.
5. Banning synths from society. Remember in BSG, network computers were banned after the first Cylon attack.

And now the fact that this synth thing has been repeating and going on over the history of the galaxy… BSG says “all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.” Exactly what the Romulans are saying.

This is too much to be merely a coincidence.

Edward Samuela

Wondering if they’ll introduce a new alien race or try to tie the ancient apocalypse into one of the old empires mentioned over the years?

-Iconians – an advanced civilization which was destroyed 200,000 years before the TNG-era
-The Tkon Empire – Mentioned in season 1 of TNG as a massive technologically advanced empire
-The Preservers – An alien race that went about the galaxy preserving primitive cultures
-Ancient Humanoids – Progenitors of humanoid life throughout the Milky Way
-Sphere – Whatever culture built the “Sphere” from Star Trek: Discovery

The most obvious ones to tie into, I’d say, are Ruk’s creators (The Old Ones) and the Tkon.

Tim

I guess its the Furlinger!

Thorny

It would be really cool to be Ruk’s “Old Ones”, I think.

Or they could theoretically go to The Guardian on Gamma Tauri IV and ask him, couldn’t they? He should still be there, guarding the “Last Outpost” of the Tkon. Could be a good reason to bring back Riker in Season 2.

ML31

The sphere builders were interdimensional beings who were altering the environment in the Expanse to suit them. And manipulating the Xindi to unwittingly help them.

I’m going to say it again that I loved this episode.

So far, one of our middle-grade kids has watched it with me and was riveted. The balance of action on the Cube vs. detective work and revelations on La Sirena really held their attention.

It’s great to hear from Laurie that she’s beginning to believe in the true Trek resolution we’ve been promised.

This episode was interesting in that, like many 8th episodes in 10 episode serial seasons, it was chock packed, but on the other hand (as Michael Chabon revealed in the podcast on Deadline) the writers made the choice to bring most of the key threads together before the 2-part season finale. They intentionally resolved much of the mystery at this point.

I suspect that for Laurie, for me, and many longtime fans, knowing that the values and optimism of Trek will be reasserted now will make the finale more enjoyable, and will allow us to focus on Soji’s discovery of her homeworld.

tom riker

i’m loving it… i have been from the beginning… i think it helps to enjoy this stuff when you’re not paranoid (not saying you are mind you) but when trek fans watch new stuff convinced the writers and creators are trying to ruin their lives then it’s hard to really see it for what it is and have fun…

Kayla wrote this one! But I am with her on the idealism of Star Trek being so much of what makes it Star Trek, and I hope we’re both right about being headed towards an optimistic resolution.

Thanks for the correction Laurie.

And apologies to Kayla for the error.

Tiger2

I loved that the review pointed out the talk between Picard and Rios at the end. THAT is classic Star Trek and Picard in so many ways. And I think you’re right that this will most likely end on a high note instead of a dark one (but prepared for both lol).

But for people like me who had no problem seeing the show in a darker and more cynical light but NEVER saw it as a dystonia either, it’s mostly because Picard is the one who is and always has been a constant reminder what the Federation is suppose to be and why he is so loved. He is still THAT Picard and none of it has gone away. I love the character more than ever these days!

The Star Trek/TNG optimism and values are still there, it’s simply being challenged like it has always been at times, but its still there nevertheless.

Tiger2

I agree TG47, this was a great episode overall but it wasn’t perfect. There are a few things that bother me but nothing too major.

But I do love where its all going and they brought the mystery to ahead in this one, so its exciting. And I don’t feel as torn where its ending is going the same way I felt about Discovery last season which started out VERY strong and with a lot of promise but deflated by the end, at least story wise. I can get over it though because it put the show into another post-Nemesis timeline but yeah.

Picard though feels a lot more together. It can still fall apart fast lol but its in a great place right now IMO at least.

ML31

I don’t know… Right now things seem pretty grim. It’s the darkest point the show had achieved in 8 episodes. Picard and his crew appear to be on the path that wipes out the galaxy of organic life. We can only hope that he realizes what is going on before the end…

Harry Ballz

I’ve only seen about 20 minutes of this episode. I’ve tried twice to watch it, but keep getting distracted by more exciting things like emptying the garbage and rearranging my sock drawer. This show is so f*cking BORING!

tom riker

then please for your sake and ours… stop watching. it’s the best for all of us. not every show is meant for everyone. if you stop you won’t be so miserable and we don’t have to hear about it.

Harry Ballz

C’mon, Tom. I’ve been a regular poster here for at least ten years. If I find a new Trek show boring, I have every right to say so.

Tiger2

Yes you do Harry. As someone who is loving this show (but can also admit its not perfect) people should just be able to say how they feel about it, good or bad. That’s what message boards are for. It’s not just to be cheerleaders of something because you are a fan but to have a well rounded debate to all sides of it. I don’t understand why some people don’t seem to get this and want to tell people to shut up just because its a negative view? Obviously people can disagree with it but you have every right to feel that way and express it. And you are trying to give it a chance, sadly it just doesn’t sound like its working for you all that much.

Harry Ballz

Thanks, Tiger2. Please remember, back when the first episode of STP aired, I was the first to come here and sing it’s praises. I even called it “Superb”. Then, as other episodes followed, I quickly changed my opinion. I enjoy the bits with Patrick Stewart and Jeri Ryan though (nostalgia?).

tom riker

i never said he cant say how he feels… to be a trek fans means to hate everything and whine about it for everyone to hear… i suggested he stop watching… anyone who watches shows that makes them miserable is sort of sadistic… don’t you think? i can’t stand voyager… if i watched it anyway knowing i hated it and griped to people it would be really really weird… it’s my right as an american internet user i suppose sure but it’s just bizarre to me…

Tiger2

Tom Riker, I would mostly agree with you IF that was actually the case and Harry indeed in fact ‘hated everything’ but he clearly just told you in fact DOESN’T and praised the first episode, right? So that literally goes the opposite of what you’re saying, does it not?

Look, I obviously get what you’re saying, that some people are going to hate these shows no matter what but that’s NOT the same thing here. In this case he clearly WANTS to like the show, but he is having issues with it and expressing his opinion but still watching because he wants it to improve, so what’s the problem with that?

My original post wasn’t directly aimed at you, I was mainly speaking in general but I get SO sick of hearing this. Yes, I know there are some highly toxic fans out there, especially these days. I also get there is the camp of ‘well *my* Star Trek is better than *your* Star Trek’ eye rolling gate keeping people and yes a few of those are on this board too (but thankfully much less these days).

And yes I also agree there should be people who should NOT be watching this show or Discovery. People who say things like it’s not ‘canon’ or that it should be CANCELED because it doesn’t fit with their cookie cutter view of what Star Trek is and literally suggests it shouldn’t exist at all (and that really goes to Discovery since that’s where most of that venom comes from). Or people who questions other people’s intelligence for liking said show but YET keep watching themselves anyway.

People like that, we agree. They have the right to keep watching but it’s fair to call those type people out IMO because they are just hate watching and nothing more. In Harry’s case, he’s simply disappointed in the show and stated his reasons why. He’s not questioning if the show should exist, not calling for its cancellation or telling others like you they shouldn’t like it either, he simply wants a BETTER SHOW and hopes in time it will get better even if me and you think it’s good now. But that is how difference of opinion works.

We’re all Star Trek fans here, we’re ALL going to watch these shows, good or bad. You can certainly tell people not to watch but it comes off more like you just don’t like his opinion because its negative. Yeah I don’t necessarily like when people put something down all the time I like either but same time I would NEVER want someone to tell me how I should discuss a show or movie (and people have tried here btw and failed miserably lol) just because they don’t like hearing something that goes against their own tastes. It works both ways and people have to accept that.

ML31

You’ve touched on one of my pet peeves here in these threads. I have a handful of them but this one is the poster who responds to someone criticizing the show by saying “stop watching it then.” I just don’t understand why someone would demand a fan stop taking part in what they are a fan of just because they think it sucks at the moment.

I can handle the hyperbole like “this should be canceled!” I know the point they are making. I don’t take such posts personally or universally. They are just saying that in their view the show is so bad it should be canned. It’s really not that big a deal to me. I used to write that way but it was done as a way to really hammer home a point more so than wishing those who do like it not have it any more. And I think those who still say things like that, more often than not are doing so in the same vein.

Tiger2

It’s OK to an extent to think something should be cancelled. Picard and Discovery are still pretty new so I get it that people may still be watching and very unhappy with it early on; but their minds can still change like a lot of minds did with the other shows. BUT if you been watching a show for YEARS and yet still claim its worthless/dumb/boring and shouldn’t exist then yes its probably time to move on. At some point you have to just call a spade a spade and that the show simply isn’t for you. Maybe not from the fandom as a whole but that show at least if you’re still moaning how awful it is five seasons later. It says more about those fans than the show itself.

ML31

Telling someone to stop watching something that is bad that they are a fan of is not helpful. Fans will watch and hope things get better. But if it is bad they will say so and have every right to say so. My favorite hockey team is terrible now. (in a sense it is a bit of a blessing the league has stopped playing) But I’m still going to watch them. Why? Because I’m a fan. My baseball team was heading into the season (until… You know) looking like they did not improve from being bad. But I was going to watch them. Why? Because I hope they are going to get better. And because I’m a fan! Many fans are not going to stop watching just because the current manifestation of their fandom sucks.

YKeeg

I’m speaking as a fence-sitter here; I’m loving Picard but have had issues with Disco and the last two JJVerse flicks. The problem with waiting for it to get better is that everything is being entered into “the official record”. It’s all canon, even when it contradicts canon. And I’ve seen eye-rolling at the use of the word “canon” here, but it’s a thing. It matters to a LOT of people.

I am a lifelong Trekkie. “Fan” puts it mildly. I DID stop watching Discovery after Point of Light. And I was a happier person for it. I would watch youtube synopses and reviews, and I would smile at the 10 dollars I didn’t have to pay to watch it because the story sounded asinine when told secondhand. When Picard came along and I resubscribed to CBS, I did watch the rest of season 2 and didn’t absolutely hate it. It was much better in person. Maybe because I was prepared for what was coming, I didn’t hate it so much. I usually hate spoilers, but in this case, they were appreciated. Kind of like the doctor saying “you’re going to feel a little pinch”, before jabbing that needle in real deep and grinding it against bone. The warning helps.

What I’m saying is, “not watching” is a completely viable way to not endure stuff that you don’t like. And you can always come back and binge them when you feel you’re ready. Disco could really hit its stride in season 3, like TNG did. Those old episodes will still be there. So yes, people can and should take a break, stop watching, and spare themselves the pain, as well as spare the rest of us from another fan-vs-fan battle royale.

DeanH

Well said Tiger2. IMO it is always good to have thoughtful legit critiques on this board. Speaking of legit criticism, I was laughing this morning listening to a Youtube channel which has constantly bashed CBSAA Trek, but refreshingly has decided that Picard is really awesome. Hopefully the finale or S2 of Picard will also be able to assimilate (maybe a bad choice of words) Harry back into the collective haha. Bring on the season finale.

tom riker

no one’s listening… stop pretending i said he shouldn’t have the right to be critical… the question is why do people love to watch shows they hate?

blackmocco

The question is why do you care?

Harry Ballz

DeanH, “assimilate Harry back into the collective”?

Are you saying resistance is futile, I will become one with the BORED?

HA! I keed! I keed! Why, because I LUV!!

I LOVE STAR TREK, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT’S GOOD! PERIOD!

ML31

Yes. If you are not pleased with a Trek show you do indeed have every right to say so. In the interest of discussion I would prefer if you said why but it’s fine. It’s an open forum and different opinions are all welcome. Even those that are different from mine! ;)

YKeeg

Yes, the “why” is essential to thoughtful and spirited debate. Anything else is just bitching for the sake of bitching. Nonconstructive and pointless.

Legate Damar

Clancy called Oh because Oh is the chief of Starfleet security. Clancy (probably) doesn’t know anything about the Zhat Vash.

YKeeg

Oh pointedly told Narissa that Clancy nad NOT mentioned the Zhat Vash.

Michael GB

Good episode, but how did seven get on the cube so easily? Picard spent an entire episode trying to get permission. Thought that was the weakest part of the show.

Thorny

I’m going to guess Seven’s pretty damned familiar with the ins-and-outs of a Borg Cube. She knows how to get aboard without being detected.

Michael GB

Yeah, but it’s Romulan security now. Of course the Romulans can’t figure out there is a huge secret queens lair in the middle of the “artifact.” Their scans must suck. You would at least think the would find a big dead space where the scans can’t penetrate and someone might ask why.

Thorny

Think of it like DS9’s “Civil Defense”. The station was the Federation’s now, but there was still Cardassian subroutines squirreled away that took over the station, and Dukat knew how to exploit them. Same with Borg and a Cube, I suspect.

ML31

Not the same. It seems credible to hide code somewhere. Less so to hide entire spaces.

ML31

Thorny, I would argue that explanation is a conceit. It’s the equivalent of “I know some secret underground tunnels that will get us past the perimeter.” It happens so often I consider it a lazy trope at this point. I still think Michael GB’s question was a proper one. How DID she manager to not only board the cube but make it all the way to the queen room without garnering one bit of attention by anyone?

Danilo Schöneberg

As an ex-drone Seven probably knows where the secret back entry is, after all she also knew how to reactivate the cube. Of course that was almost immediately negated when Romulan incest girl spaced the lot of them and Seven apparently couldn’t do a single thing despite being in control of the cube. Simple suspension of disbelief is not enough to watch this show.

YKeeg

The Romulans deactivated the Romulan force fields that were holding the atmosphere into the heavily damaged cube. Probably had them running off a Romulan power grid completely separate from the cube SPECIFICALLY in case there was a Borg insurrection. Probably those little green satellite things that were all around the cube were forcefield projectors, unable to be assimilated, or at least very difficult to assimilate them all.

YKeeg

Well, Picard had the extra responsibility of not trying to cause a galactic incident and possible interstellar war. Just “showing up” at a Romulan facility would be frowned upon. Especially him. Imagine if Tomalak (RIP) “just showed up” at a high-security Federation outpost. The phrase “act of war” would be uttered by Picard himself. Hell, Picard almost got gang-murdered by Romulans for sitting in a friggin’ outdoor cafe.

Seven sneaks on, and the worst the Romulans can do is declare war on a disparate band of galactic vigilantes.

Jeff Jacobs

2 thoughts: First, I love that the engineering hologram is a Scotsman!! Second, maybe the apocalypse that the Zhat Vash were witnessing from 200,000 years ago was the Cylons destroying Caprica & the other 12 Colonies – that would certainly explain the fear/hatred of synths – Cylons were definitely “synthetic”, lol!

YKeeg

I wonder if Chief Engineer MacDougall in episode 2 of TNG was yet another slight nod to the Scottish engineer trope. Or MADE it a trope to begin with.

Michael Sacal

For a while now I’ve been saying that one thing I hope ST: Picard does is reveal that the Romulans acted as a sort of guards that held back a threat to the entire galaxy that eclipsed the Borg, the Dominion, and even themselves.

The most recent developments in ST: Picard show I was not that far off. One such guard does in fact exist, the Zhat Vash, which has been protecting the galaxy from a terrible threat, the Seb-Cheneb, a synthetic being.

Now, is it wholly original? No, not really. Battlestar Galactica and countless others have done the whole “machines are evil” trope, but it is what I wanted to see.

That coupled with showing Borg portrayed through modern production values results in ST: Picard giving him what I wanted to see.

Here’s a thought/hypothesis that’s been percolating in my back brain since yesterday:

What if whoever shows up one the threshold of synthetic life is reached isn’t necessarily hostile to the web-based creator species?

What if we’re dealing with the equivalent to the whale-aliens in TVH? That is, a hyper advanced AI culture that cares about how other sentient AIs are treated.

The experience of the civilization that made the Conclave of 8 was their experience. It only represents one possible outcome.

Perhaps, as Maddox originally proposed in ‘The Measure of a Man’ in the civilization of 200,000 years ago, sentient synthetic beings were created as slaves, without rights? Might that not have led to a very adverse response from whoever showed up in response to the civilization passing the threshold?

Some reviewers are speculating that the threshold is just another name for the singularity, but it need not be. That is, neither Data nor Soji appear on the cusp of becoming transcendent AI beings.

But whether or not the development of sentient AIs creates or attracts the attention of transcendent beings, Star Trek has shown Starfleet coming to terms with advanced beings time and time again across almost every series.

My sense is that this season will bring us back to that anchor.

ML31

The threshold is obviously the AI rising up against their organic creators. Nothing more than that. Just like the Cyberdyne system that became self aware and attempted to destroy the humans that were trying to pull the plug by launching the Nukes it was responsible for running.

YKeeg

Opens up the V’Ger box again. An “advanced AI culture that cares about how other sentient AIs are treated”. Voyager 6 might have been seen as a special-needs stray dog that they nursed back to health and sent back home. Completely good-intentioned, but look how destructive that act of kindness turned out to be.

Kind of like people not even realizing they’re stepping on a bug. They’re just so “above” us that they don’t even realize what damage they cause, or even care, because we’re just an infestation of carbon units.

TonyD

Entertaining episode and good summary but like so much of NuTrek it does not bear close scrutiny:

If the Admonition was so horrible (it killed 80% of those Dhat Vash in the PTS) why would Commodore Oh show it to an untrained, unprepared person like Jurati, who was her only potential mole?

If Narissa is to be believed, “despair” is the key to breaking a Borg ship from the collective? Really?

I’m not clear on just what 7 of 9 accomplished by taking over the Borg cube. Nearly all the dormant Borg were spaced and Narissa apparently escaped. It felt more like a setup for a future story with 7 (“Annika has more work to do”). The fact that her “Where is Hugh?” question was never actually answered was interesting.

The notion that Picard would end up on the La Sirena, piloted by the one other person in the entire galaxy who would recognize Soji for what she was bends the concept of coincidence to absurd levels. If this were Star Wars, I would have said the Force brought them together, but this is Star Trek and it just feels incredibly contrived

Once Picard finds out that Oh is a half Vulcan/half Romulan mole, you’d think he would immediately make a follow up transmission to Clancy to tell her that fact, especially as Oh is the head of Starfleet security. Maybe he did and it was not shown to keep the tension up but if he didn’t it’s a pretty egregious mistake for someone as experienced as he is.

After 7 episodes of leisurely wandering around from planet to planet, this felt like a bit too much of an exposition dump. It’s also telling that just about everyone already knew their piece of the puzzle; they just needed to sit together to connect the dots. As such, the aha! moment where they learn what’s going to happen didn’t feel particularly earned.

The scene of Picard briefly sitting in Rios’ chair before admitting he doesn’t have a clue was probably meant to be funny but came across to me as sad, borderline pathetic and Picard really looked like a clueless old man for a few moments there.

I did enjoy Raffi’s sit-down with the holograms and her and Picard’s scenes with Rios, which were all nice character moments.

As this is supposed to be a more character oriented show I will be curious to see how the crisis is resolved and if TPTB go for a thoughtful solution or if they go for another space battle. I’m inclined to think Chabon will want the former while Kurtzmann and Goldsman will push for the latter.

Ian

I’m friends with one of the VFX artists. I didn’t ask for spoilers, though accidentally saw one on his phone, but he volunteered that what the show is building to is epic and they have been doing a lot of overtime to get it done.

bassmaster22

It’s a lot of lazy story telling with unbelievable coincidences leading to easy plot progression. Is it entertaining? Sure. Is it cerebral? Not at all.

They’ve severely neutered Picard as a character. It’s really sad honestly and knowing how feeble he is actually diminishes my enjoyment of TNG now. Nicely done, Kurtzman.

But, yeah, there will be a big space battle to distract you from the writing and undoubtedly they will set up a big “to be continued” with a completely unrelated plot device.

StarTrick

Considering what Jeff Russo did with the last episodes in Season 1 & 2 from Discovery I suspect we get a bold “The Motion Picture”-theme-performance for the end credits on the last episode. ;)

YKeeg

Honestly, the Rios and Jana thing seemed coincidental on an “Anakin built Threepio” level. I mean what are the friggin’ odds?

As I wrote elsewhere Y’Keeg what’re the odds of there being TWO unrelated mega secret conspiracy cover-ups in Starfleet within a 5 year period?

Virtually nil.

In my view, there’s no coincidence that Raffi called on her old friend Rios who was also forced out of Starfleet on a psych pretext.

Raffi may have been trying to self-medicate away her paranoia with substances, but an intelligence analyst that gifted would still be gathering up data and making the connections in another part of her mind.

In hindsight, as soon as Rios said that the fate of his entire capital ship was classified into oblivion, we and Picard should have made the connection to the problems in Starfleet Intelligence.

As for Raffi, she had spent too much of the past 14 years being second guessed to consciously put the pieces together with further evidence.

ML31

Most stories can be nit picked. I’d just prefer they not be so very obvious when I see the story unfold on screen. If I come up with a problem watching then that is a clue that the story is not that engaging. If I’m thinking more about how the plot didn’t work than I am with how our characters are going to react or deal with the situation, then the story has not grabbed me. And I was thinking why show the visions to Agnes the moment we saw that these specially trains “we’ve probably seen every horror imaginable” double secret Tal Shiar agents showed that 80% of them could not handle it to the point where they would rip their own faces off? What made Oh think Agnes could handle such a thing?

PunaRob

Thank you Kayla! GREAT episode, nice to be coming out of the darkness for this show! I am going make two wild predictions… #1 – Hugh is not as dead as we have been lead to believe and will become the Borg KING on the artifact. #2 – Starfleet needs to come to the rescue so that our favorite Pizza Chef will be called up from active reserve to lead the squadron. I bet I will be completely wrong. But its fun and I am loving Picard!

StarTrick

Nah, Hugh is a white male. Him becoming the king of the borg is not woke at all. Won’t happen. ;)
I agree, it would be fun to see that. From what we got character-wise from Hugh, he would be a good king. In comparison, with that somewhat pissed off and revenge-driven Fenris Ranger Seven, I can’t see her becoming a good queen right now.

Anduinel

That would be kind of bittersweet, but I’d 1000% take it over Hugh being dead!

Wil Martin

Love the review, Kayla! And, yes, I look forward to my weekly Shuttlepod as much as the new episodes. Thank you guys for modeling how we can disagree without tearing each other apart.

Yes, I thought the admiral’s F-bomb was strange. However, I didn’t even notice when Rios said it.

DeanH

Watched again this morning. I had a good laugh when Raffi thought that Rios’ turntable was a Walkman!
Can’t believe we are already at the two-part season finale. Lots to still resolve and many broken lives to repair, but overall I have really enjoyed Picard S1 – with the exception of one major egregious scene and some minor hiccups. Looking forward to Part 1 on Thursday. Btw I cheated and went to look at the website which normally lists the cast and guest stars for upcoming episodes. Fortunately, there was nothing listed haha.

ML31

I thought the turntable was ridiculous. And that Rafi mentioned something that didn’t even last as long as the turntable was even more silly. Sorry but that also took me out of the episode.

I took it completely differently ML31.

Raffi is an old friend. She knows Rios interests, and has listened to him talk about them even if she doesn’t share those interests. So, she’s trying to reach him by asking whether it’s a piece of technology that he’d previously mentioned to her, but that she’s never seen.

Rios is has repeatedly shown a deep interest in mid 20th century culture. Not Tom Paris’ fascination with early sci-fi television, but philosophy (existentialism).

This includes collecting 20th century technology. Riker likes jazz, but Rios is the type who would want to hear it using analog tech from its own era. He’d likely want to hear 80s music on Walkman it was produced for.

The odd thing in this is that it was his dead captain’s turntable according to what Rios replied. Which suggests his preference for old tech may have been fostered by his father-figure relationship.

So, the real question is how much of this is Rios own taste and how much is his looping through his trauma.

tom riker

yeah the walkman joke was funny… i can’t wait to rewatch the whole thing… ive held back from mutiple views of eps so i can re-binge-watch

tom riker

because we are in the middle of this worldwide pandemic national emergency… and need things to watch… i think cbs should release the last 2 picards NOW… and open the network to everyone until the emergency is over or until all life is extinguished by synths or corona

Trek in a Cafe

Honestly, no! This is going to be hard enough as it is. Don’t you want something to look forward to? Or something to complain about? A way to meet old online friends! Tom Riker you should know!

tom riker

fine… i’ll wait

Thorny

I’d say the opposite. I think this crisis is not going to be over until mid-summer, at least. It definitely is going to get worse before it starts getting better, and when it starts getting better it will do so slowly. Best not rush things out now.

I think it might be helpful to release a PG-13’d (f-bombs overdubbed) Discovery and Picard on CBS broadcast in a few weeks. Perhaps Disney could do the same and run The Mandalorian on ABC or something like that. Some lesser movies that were scheduled for theatrical release could go straight to streaming.

I’m thinking that CBSAA may wish to accelerate making Paramount cinematic feature and Nickelodeon library content available.

A longer free trial period with increased promotion on CBS broadcast channels would be smart too.

That said, getting new production wrapped and through post is an opportunity to build audience.

I’m wondering if we could see both Lower Decks and Discovery S3 in the same quarter.

Tiger2

Yes, while a lot of businesses will certainly be struggling, epecially anything to do with travel, tourism or social events, the ONE industry that is going to get a big pull is television and streaming. Disney is already jumping ahead by making Frozen 2 available on Disney+ months earlier than expected and I imagine if CBSViacom is really going to basically plus All Access then this is the time to do it. It doesn’t have to be tomorrow but maybe try to get something going by this Spring.

Legate Damar

Subscriptions to All Access and Disney+ would go down if they started releasing their exclusive shows on regular TV.

What I meant Legate Damar, is that ViacomCBS needs to get the entire library up on CBSAA asap.

From what I understand, it’s been ramping up, but I don’t believe it’s all available as yet. (Getting all the Star Trek content up seems relatively recent.)

They actually are a strong competitor in the children’s market.

CBSAA got access to DHX’s (recently renamed Wildbrain) content library in December and have been adding on Nickelodeon. Yes, Disney has a lot for kids, but I suspect that, like us, families will be hitting the limits of Disney not too long from now.

This need for new and diverse content is fairly huge at present with schools, recreation facilities and libraries closing.

As a parent of middle-graders who will be at least 3 weeks out of school, and with all their physical activities cancelled, I admit that screentime restrictions are going to be relaxing in our household. If we weren’t already on premium cable with Bell Fibe, we’d be looking for something quickly.

Legate Damar

I was responding to Thorny, not to you. There is plenty of TV available for people without subscriptions to these services. It isn’t as if having access to one more TV show is going to make a difference in this crisis.

Thorny

Legate Damar… It wouldn’t be a permanent thing, just a crisis response. Mandalorian Season 2 and Picard Season 2 will still be only on streaming. CBS and Disney could announce “we’re doing our part for the people during this crisis”. And putting Season 1 on broadcast TV might actually build an audience for them: lots of people hunkering down will watch these shows, when they otherwise would never had paid for CBS All Access or Disney Plus. Then when the crisis is over, they might subscribe.

Last thought Tom riker,

One of the major news sources here in Canada suggested “become a reviewer of television shows on social media or join a discussion board” as part of its list for surviving social distancing.

We may hear a lot of new voices on this and other Trek boards.

Many of them won’t be as positive as you (or I) might like. Let’s hope we can be welcoming to fans, new and old, who are trying to do something new for them.

tom riker

if we pull ourselves away from this psycho ward there’s mostly very happy people out in the real world watching trek… it’s a weird sickness of online trekdom… the friends i know watching it are very very happy and they don’t post like idiots like us and everyone else here lol

Tiger2

Tom Riker MOST people here seem to like Picard as well, right? Even with the people who don’t like it or have some issues, the overwhelming majority seems to think its a decent show at least, even if they don’t think it’s perfect. Its not like every review thread its just people dumping on the show constantly. Many here, like me, actually praises a lot of the episodes this season. And the ones that don’t like it have VALID reasons not too, but they don’t make up the majority either, so take down a notch. It’s no reason to call them ‘idiots’ just because you don’t like their opinions on it.

If you can’t accept that, then maybe just talk to your friends about it and stay off these message boards? Some of us come to hear ALL opinions believe it or not and the last thing I would want is just an echo chamber of my own feelings on it.

But I would say Picard is probably the most positive show or movie in terms of overall reaction from fans since the first Kelvin movie. It has been pretty downhill from that point on though lol.

The Trouble With Dribbles

Hugh, dead? Nawwww. The XB’s will place him in an alcove, and Queen of Nine will re-assimilate him. He’ll be back.

Jay

He has to be alive!

Bill

I am really enjoying the show but this last episode I had one small issue with. The Borg. Remembering Star Trek First Contact we got to see that the Borg can be out in space with no issues, but in this episode they can just be blown out in to space and kill them? I just don’t get it. I mean am I wrong on this? Did the Borg all die or are then just floating around space now??

Please see my comment earlier in the thread Bill.

The Borg on the Artifact had been in stasis for a decade or more and were just been woken. We have no precedent in canon to tell us whether their being ejected into space during that process would be survivable, but Seven (as queen) was clearly distressed.

YKeeg

It’s also possible that the few borg who were working on the deflector in First Contact had to be specially adapted to that kind of work. Maybe had an oxygen tank component installed or something.

Jay

Look forward for the upcoming episodes to see the Artifact again and see what happened to those xBs. If we have to wait until the next season, Chabon or Kurtzman for sure will not say a thing! (^_^)

ML31

There is no reason they still aren’t alive floating in space, Bill. But what happens to them when they fall into the gravity well of a star or a planet? Yep. They fry.

Legate Damar

I would imagine that it would be eons before they would drift anywhere near another stellar body. Even if they are still alive now, they would die without access to their regeneration alcoves long before they burned up in some distant star.

Jay

This episode was very emotional. The conversation between Picard and Soji. The script and the acting was superb. A tear fell from my eye, the way Picard spoke about Data. It felt very real. I think this episode was just amazing. The scene with all the Holograms, Rios and his different personalities, brilliant! Also, Picard, he made me laugh so much when he was trying to take the lead and fly La Sirena.

ML31

That little speech of Picard’s doesn’t make the Romulans wrong when it comes to the AIs. This is the episode that made it appear that Picard is 100% for certain on the wrong side of this issue. All the functioning AIs must be destroyed just like you destroy a derelict Starship.

It’s starting to look like it is possible the downfall of Starfleet we suspect happening in Discovery S3 may indeed be traced back to the events in Picard. I’m hoping that in the end Picard will realize what needs to be done and ultimately do the right thing.

Legate Damar

What makes you think that? We know nothing about this tragedy that happened hundreds of thousands of years ago. The Zhat Vash are just reacting out of fear. It is not acceptable to exterminate an entire race out of fear.

ML31

I think that because every single case of AI Star Fleet has encountered has been bent on destruction. The one that wasn’t came with an evil twin who was. On top of all that there is now evidence of a 200,000 year old AI uprising where their organic creators were wiped out. Not really sure why anyone would think creating AI would not be a bad thing. Fear has little to do with beyond the fear of the entire galaxy being destroyed by something completely preventable. Also, this is not a race. It’s little more than a line of cars. Cars get recalled when there are flaws. Even animals get put down when they misbehave beyond a certain threshold. I also feel pretty confident that if a breed of dog were created that was aggressive, untrainable, turned on their trainers at every opportunity and even spread disease with their bites… That breed would be banned from ever being created and it is likely those already created would be put down. No one in their right mind would say, “We just need to give them a chance.”

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

Legate Damar

The Doctor, Vic, Data, B4, Soji, and Dahj are all prominent examples of synthetic life forms who aren’t evil. They are also much more intelligent than a dog or a car. They are sentient people who have the same right to life as any human. There may be a legitimate argument over the creation of new synths, but it is absolutely not okay to murder innocent people just because other members of their race ended up being bad.

I’ve been mulling over what it means for the Qowat Milat to be the arch enemies of the Zhat Vash.

Do the true (female) members of the Qowat Milat know of the Admonition and reject it?

Is there something more than a historical opposition between secrecy and falsehood vs absolute candor?

One has the sense that a deeper history was envisaged between these two orders, but at this point with Elnor on the cube with Seven, one wonders if it will be clarified this season.

Adding that the newly released photos for episode 9 turn out to show something to the point.

To avoid a spoiler, I’ll wait to comment until TrekMovie posts the photos in a new thread.

John in Canada, eh?

Some great conversations in this episode, and finally some resolution to several lingering threads. But: if it was Maddox who sent Soji to the Artifact, that means the Romulans interest in all the eBs was independent of Soji and Dahj. And if that’s the case, why would Rizzo just destroy all of the drones there without a second’s hesitation? Seems like a huge 16 year project to simply flush down the drain.

Legate Damar

There are different factions of Romulan society operating here. The Artifact is being run by the Romulan Free State. Narissa works for the Zhat Vash, and isn’t really interested in anything other than her organization’s mission. She doesn’t mind screwing over other Romulans in her pursuit to destroy the Synths.

Trek in a Cafe

Tonight feels like
https://youtu.be/P1xdGCvNMEY

Legate Damar

I’m wondering if the theories about the Romulans creating the Borg were half right. The Romulans didn’t create the Borg, but the Admonition told them some of the details of their creation 200,000 years ago.