Michael Chabon Answers Fan Questions About ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Finale Loose Ends, Season Two, And More

The season one finale of Star Trek: Picard wrapped up a number of arcs, but as noted by our review, left a number of questions unanswered and created a few more of them. Some of these have already been answered on Instagram by season one showrunner Michael Chabon over the last few days. We have summarized some of the most salient ones, and grouped them by topic. Obviously, there are SPOILERS.

 

Implications of Picard becoming Picard 2.0

Is Picard bothered being in a synth body considering his past as an xB? Is the golem 100% organic?

He is as likely, perhaps more likely, to feel liberated by it, since it was never violated. And yes, his body was organically cultured and grown.

Will the show deal with the philosophical implications of Picard’s golemic return?

Will it, indeed.

Do you think there are bigger social ramifications for cheating death with a robot body?

Hell, yeah!

Does the new Picard (golem) retain Picard’s artificial heart?

Nope. They wrapped it in tissue and he’s taking it home to be a chew toy for Number One.

Did they maybe give Picard some extra years without telling him?

It’s just a guess, ultimately. His mileage may vary.

Was there any thought to showing Picard see his former body?

No, but interesting!

Can Soong build himself another golem?

Probably.

All about Data’s goodbye

Was Data “killed” when the simulation was deactivated or just put on pause?

He is gone. That is what he wanted.

Why wouldn’t Data to come back, like Picard did, at least for a while?

He was ready.

Why did Data age so rapidly when he died?

That is how he wanted it, how he always imagined it. Perhaps he even experienced the passage of many years in a few seconds.

Answers about Riker and the Federation fleet

Did Riker step down from the Titan? or wasn’t the [USS Zheng He] his ship at one point?

Remember he retired? Sick kid? Nepenthe? ZH is a brand new ship.

Do we know what class of ship the USS Zheng He is?

Curiosity class.

Why wasn’t Riker on the Titan?

Assuming that the Titan is still in service – probably a reasonable assumption – she’s nearly a decade in Riker’s rear-view, and he in hers. It’s off somewhere in the galaxy exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life, etc. This brand new Curiosity class was freshly crewed and ready to go.

Why only one class of Federation ship?

I believe but am working to confirm that there are actually four distinct classes.

Riker’s “flagship” wasn’t the Enterprise. Does this imply the end of Enterprise ships?

Of course not!

Why do Starfleet have so many of the same incredible ship? Do they have any others?

It would be odd and unprecedented if they didn’t.

Loose ends from the finale

What became of Narek?

Yeah. Narek. We know, we know. A casualty of the editorial process, alas. The intention was for him to be taken into Federation custody.

What about the xBs?

We shot a scene intended to show Ramdha and other xBs beginning to form a kind of community with the Synths under the auspices of Soong. In the end, we couldn’t find a place for it that worked and we felt that losing it didn’t hurt too much. Maybe we were wrong!

Was the end moment between Seven and Raffi romantic? Was there foreshadowing that I missed?

To both questions: apparently so!

How much time between Picard’s resurrection and the final scene?

Long enough for loose ends to be tied up, the xBs to be seen to and their safety arranged, Raffi and Seven to hook up, Jurati to hire a lawyer…

Details of Maddox’s plan and Soji

Why was Maddox on Freecloud in the first place? He said his lab was destroyed. Why the lie?

Freecloud was the launchpad for Dahj and Soji. That was where – in a lab financed by Bajayzl in exchange for some unspecified work he was doing for her – he reprogrammed them, and sent them on their respective missions.

Was it some part of Data in Dahj that sent her to find Picard in the first place?

No, that was programmed into her by Bruce Maddox as a break-glass-in-case-of-emergency failsafe.

Did Soji grasp that she was summoning the genocide of billions?

I think she struggled to. Her true consciousness is new and unformed; while she is in some ways incredibly sophisticated, in others she has far to go,;’ and she has undergone recent, painful trauma.

On the intergalactic advanced synths behind the beacon

Would the advanced synths be concerned that the beacon was abruptly stopped? 

Who even knows, after 200,000 years, if they’re still “advanced”? Maybe they’ve devolved.

Are the advanced synths only a threat if called via the beacon?

Are they a threat at all? Whose interpretation is right? Was anyone’s? What happens when we mistake our interpretation of facts for the facts themselves.

Any tidbits/insights from writers bible about the intergalactic synthetic life, their origins, etc.?

In the earliest drafts, they called their alliance the Alterity. I guess that is my headcanon now.

I’m interested to know what was coming out of the beacon. Was that discussed in depth?

No. We just went “Oh my god JZ [visual effects supervisor Jason Zimmerman], that is so freaking awesome!” Or do you mean like who are those guys, in the Butch and Sundance sense? Yes. We talked about that a lot. I made a bunch of notes. At various points there were going to be a lot of “the Alterity.” At other points, none.

Were the synths from the beacon inspired by cosmic horror?

There is for sure an eldritch non-Euclidian slither of the Old Ones in the vibe.

Are the evolved AI beings the same that altered a probe in Discovery?

If so, it’s news to me.

Are the robotic tentacles connected to the futuristic machine from Discovery?

Not insofar as I am aware.

The Romulan conspiracy and Section 31

How did the [Zhat Vash] hack into the androids at the [Utopia Planitia] Shipyards?

The head of Starfleet Security [Commodore Oh] was a Zhat Vash mole!

Is Oh indeed half Vulcan and half Romulan?

Yes. Her parents were reunificationists or so her Romulan mother wanted her to believe.

Which came first, the Admonition or the Sisters’ prophecy Narek spoke of? How are they connected?

The Admonition predates Romulan civilization by hundreds of centuries. If Romulans had not chanced upon it, their history would be very different. Their pre-existing mythology of Gamadan just gave them a framework for interpreting their experience of the Admonition.

How much does [Section 31] know about the Zhat Vash, and do they care?

Section 31 has always seemed like they have their heads too far up their own asses to be really useful, to me.

Season 2 plot possibilities

Will s2 go deeper into the Romulan rescue mission?

In a way.

Does Jurati get away scot-free for the Bruce Maddox murder? Seems like she was going to get arrested. 

Well, I mean, in fairness she hasn’t had a chance to turn herself in, yet.

Will Jurati face legal punishment for the murder of Maddox?

She will put herself in the hands of the law.

Will there be push back by Federation citizens to the lift of the synth ban? 

Of course, there will be some, but hopefully, the will to acknowledge their failure and make reparation will predominate most enlightened citizens.

What’s the Federation plan on doing about Oh? Surely Romulan government can’t go unpunished for that?

Why so punitive? The Federation is not Yahweh.

Can we hope for the [Seven/Raffi] relationship to be explored in S2?

Yes.

Season 2 cast and cameos

Will [Seven] stay on the crew next season?

I want to say yes, but people keep telling me not to. So no.

Is Seven part of the crew, now?

We don’t have a crew, per see; we have a cast of characters, an ensemble.

Will there be more of Laris in season two?

Surely.

Will the crew be picking up [Laris] and Zhaban in season two? We need more of those two!

We do, indeed!

Will we see cameos from TNG, DS9, and Voyager in season two? I would love to see Janeway!

I know, I know.

If you could bring two Deep Space 9 characters aboard the La Sirena which two and why? 

I’d love to check in on Garek and Bashir, they’re always so much fun to hang out with.

Any chance of some more Andorians in season 2?

Who doesn’t love Andorians?

More random questions answered

It still feels too informal for Raffi to call Picard “JL,” where is the respect?

Adherence to strict military protocol in a non-military context feels like an awfully narrow, even hallow, definition of respect, no? Anyway, Raffi tends to “write her own contracts” with the people she cares about most.

Have you got a clue as to what will come next for the Star Trek films? 

Yes, I have a clue.

Barring any setback due to COVID19, when does S2 tentatively start filming? 

Pre-contagion, mid-2020.

 

The season finale of Star Trek: Picard arrived this week on CBS All Access. If you haven’t yet subscribed you can get a free month: CLICK HERE to try CBS All Access FREE for 1 month. Use code ALL to redeem. 


New episodes of Star Trek: Picard are released on CBS All Access in the USA Thursdays at 12:01 AM PT/3:01 AM ET. In Canada it airs Thursdays on CTV Sci-Fi Channel at 6PM PT /9PM ET and streams on Crave. For the rest of the world it streams Fridays on Amazon Prime Video. Episodes are released weekly.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Picard news at TrekMovie.

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Shatterhand2049

I rather like and appreciate Mr. Chabon taking the time to address these questions. Some of the answers are a bit cagier and vague than I’d like, but at least he doesn’t ignore them. I also appreciate that he’s willing to admit when they screwed up, i.e. the fate of Narek and the lack of closure for the ex-B’s. This is the kind of transparency I really respect, though I think it’s fair to say we aren’t entitled to any of this, and I think some fans mistakenly believe that we are. That’s why it should be valued far more.

Marja

I cannot figure out why they film scenes and don’t use them. Do the episodes have to be under 50 minutes? [indignant face]

DIGINON

I think the 2nd part of the finale was longer than 50 minutes so there is no fixed episode length. If it’s not due to time constraints the reason to cut scenes is usually pacing or that a scene “just doesn’t work” the way they hoped.

stanlowcrickets888

There were many scenes that didn’t work in the finale or were sloppy in execution (e.g Chabon says he thought there were supposed to be ‘4’ starships, no more than ‘2’ subtle variants of ‘Curiosity’ CTRL-C-CTRL-V class were shown). I hope at least they’d release these ‘deleted’ scenes it on Blu-ray release. I wish they put more effort on crafting a more complete finale to plug the obvious plot-story holes. Hope they learn and improve for season 2.

YKeeg

Yeah, and even the Ibn Majid, never shown on-screen, was a Curiosity class. So this ship design is at least 10 years old already (hardly the newest, fastest, bestest as Riker claims).

The writers really have a boner for that class.

Utopia Planitia was great and all that, but hardly the only shipyard. There are at least two more in the Sol system alone. To say nothing of the Rod-knows-how-many other species have their own.

Ian

Yeah, it’s silly for a streaming product. It’s not like the days when Voyager started seeing whole scenes from the final edits cut when UPN decided halfway through season 5 to add more commercials. Every streamer except Amazon still shows the UPN version of Dark Frontier!

Locutus

Interesting. I’ve been meaning to rewatch “Dark Frontier.” Guess I’ll watch the Amazon version.

Ian

The scene where Torres acts like it’s good riddance that Seven has left is the one that got excised for UPN and never put back.

It’s called “editing,” and it happens on every single film and movie ever made.

Ian

Thanks for that scintillating contribution to the conversation.

Vulcan Soul

You were more funny when you called yourself A34 ;)

I don’t recall A34 channeling my most annoying English prof/teacher then though.

So, VS, I suspect this is just someone new.

A34

Dude

Vulcan Soul

We missed you ;) (Well, I know at least one poster didn’t!)

Jack

Yeah. Maybe it’s stuff that didn’t quite work or really slowed things down?

In Star Trek 09, the deleted scenes were pretty terrible.

noraa

Unfortunately, in productions such as this, where there are multiple cooks in the kitchen, certain scenes that sound good on paper get excised from the final product. Sometimes its for the sake of time, sometimes for pacing, sometimes because the scene just doesn’t, and sometimes because TPTB demand for some reason. It doesn’t sound like Chabon is bitter about these cut scenes, so I’m guessing that they worked better on paper than in the final product.

AllenWrench

“He is as likely, perhaps more likely, to feel liberated by it, since it was never violated.”

So he’s referring to Picard’s Borg experience, yes? Not sure having a new body changes those traumatic memories. He would still see his new body, which looks exactly like his old one, and associate it with those old memories.

Heh, maybe season 2 will have Picard say: “I need my pain!”

Spock Jenkins

Can they please explain why Data’s hairline was completely off?
This needs to be fixed. Seriously.

Pawl Stanley

I wondered about the Great Android Hairpiece myself. I’m really surprised they didn’t show an aged Data from the onset, and explain it as Data appearing this way as an analogy to how Picard sees himself.

Matt

Or even just to reinforce that he thought it was his time to die

Pawl Stanley

That would have been an excellent thread to weave through the season.

I won’t say “Needs to be fixed!” , but I will say that both series have had real issues with unnatural looking wigs. Yes,it’s a nitpick, but the Secret Hideout shows won’t get better if no one mentions it.

The Vulcans on Discovery have had what some fans describe a ‘Muppet’ look to them. Sonequa Martin-Green apparently had to ask for natural looking wigs after the first season. Michelle Yeoh’s extensions didn’t even attempt to blend with her own hair in season 2 ponytails. I just feel that I shouldn’t have to work to ignore these things.

They’re just unexpected and hard not to notice when really when other production values are high. It seems so very odd that this hasn’t been addressed given how obvious it all is in HD.

(BTW The finishing on the costumes made the early episodes was also noticeably poor, but that resolved as the season progressed. Data’s Nemesis uniform from the premiere wasn’t remade for the finale.)

Last thought, Marina Sirtis was clearly happy that she’d made off with her wig and black contacts from Nemesis and preserved them well over the decades. She said that she showed up with them to makeup as she knew that they wouldn’t have realized that she needed them, and there was no time to make them.

Ian

I was also fixated on the swinging yellow zipper on his collar. Not exactly Starfleet issue!

YKeeg

Yep, gotta say that little zipper was certainly distracting.

Possibly implemented to distract any feline or aquatic species they encounter. Look! Look! Shiny movement! And while they’re distracted, Kirk-Fu, baby.

That sort of thing only matters to people being needlessly melodramatic and nitpicky.

Drew

Nobody else cares.

ML31

Maybe that is just how Picard’s mind wanted to remember him.

Ortzinator

“Section 31 has always seemed like they have their heads too far up their own asses to be really useful, to me.”

Wait until he finds out they’re making a whole show about them.

German Trekkie

The big question (which the show will probably not delve into…) is:
Does the Federation actually need a rogue organisation to do the dirty work they officially condone? Or does S31 cause more trouble than they are worth?

Ambaryerno

And yet Section 31 managed to be so good at what they did, that they managed to make it through some 200 years of Federation history before finally being outed. They actually managed to OUT-SECRET the Tal’Shiar (who were well-known as the Romulans’ top-secret intelligence agency since at LEAST the early years of TNG).

YKeeg

Well, if Disco is to be believed, Section 31 was common knowledge at least until the mid-23rd century. If anything, they were just covered up for maybe 100 years out of shame.

A Section 31 series is a dumb move. The only cool thing about them is the MYSTERY. Laying that all out on the table would neuter them as an item of interest in Star Trek lore.

stanlowcrickets888

LOL…is Chabon sending a message to us that the S31 show ain’t gonna happen!

A34

No

I’d have asked:

“Why did it suck? Surely you and your fellow producers could have come up with something better than this…?”

Legate Damar

Well, that would have been pretty rude.

Vulcan Soul

Vomitting the traumatizing visuals of ripped out eyeballs into our faces unannounced was pretty rude as well, wasn’t it?

I’d say Bryant would only return the favor :P

Legate Damar

The show is rated TV-MA. When you watch a show with that rating, you accept that you will sometimes see things like that. You may not think that it is a good artistic choice, but it isn’t as if Chabon tricked you into seeing those visuals.

Boze

He *did* trick us to watch – by naming his show “Star Trek”. I dare say that none of us would be here to watch this second-rate Mass Effect knockoff if it wasn’t named “Star Trek”. :P

That’s not to say there can’t be violence in Star Trek. There has alwasy been tons of violence in Star Trek, and some of it quite gruesome. But it was always done tastefully – except for that one particular case of exploding skull, which was rightfully criticized for last thirty years.

A34

You have weird views about Trek.

noraa

Really, Chabon tricked you? Fascinating view point you have to absolve yourself of any free will and personal decision making. Also, you can’t say what you just said and then assume you speak for all ST fans – what hubris and arrogance on your part. I would have definitely still checked out this show even if it wasn’t ST.

Finally, just because YOU didn’t like it, does not make it a bad show.

Vulcan Soul

Maybe you will also share with us how we were supposed to exert this “free will” when the scene appeared in the cold open unannounced and without warning? By not watching the show at all? People have a certain expectation what is acceptable in a Trek show, based on 50 years of history and 900 episodes, and SAW-level gore is NOT it!

noraa

First, the TV-MA rating for this episode specifically pointed out “coarse language and violence.” And TV-MA violence is very different than TV-PG violence. Second, before the eye ball came out, there were a ton of hints that this was going to get bad. From the first extreme closeup of the good eye and the face covered in bruising, to the close up shots of blood on the table, to the drill going into the face, but cutting away before it actually happens, to the screaming in agony – all of this occurred before the shot of the eye ball itself. Given that the show had already used a liberal amount of “fucks” and “shits,” something past shows NEVER did, it was fairly obvious that this show would have no problems going into darker and more disturbing territory than previous Treks. Thus, the warnings were all there.

Finally, and I actually just rewatched the scene, it is NOT that bad. It’s nowhere near Saw level gore as you point out. It is certainly a rough scene, but the way many are acting as it if traumatized them to some Nth degree seems, to me, just another excuse to not like the show. Had that scene not been in it, people would still be bitching and moaning about Picard.

Binyamin

I found it far more upsetting and traumatizing when a poor homeless man, who was just trying to get through the Great Depression with meals from soup kitchens and by committing occasional petty crimes, was brutally vaporized into nothingness by an accidental phaser overload.

YKeeg

Because he thought it was a flask. Object lesson: Alcohol kills.

SimonTC

Are you a TREK fan at all? You don’t remember a Ceti Eel crawling out of Chekov’s ear, or Picard & Riker exploding Remmick’s head and then a giant worm comes out of the partially vaporized body? Grow up.

A34

I loved that scene.

Well, considering that it didn’t suck, I’d imagine the answer would have been, well, everyone’s entitled to their own opinions….

Why are so many fans these days so socially inept?

Boze

Fans have always been socially inept, but it never caused any problems – until they got confronted with creatively inept authors, causing the ineptness singularity.

Vulcan Soul

“Until they got confronted with creatively inept authors”

Creatively inept or creatively bankrupt? Semantics matter ;)

noraa

Ugh, you apparently never read the old Trek BBS boards back during TNG and DS9 – fans were just as bad then as they are now – but because of the nature of the internet, we hear the moaning and bitching a lot more (like you :p).

A34

This is why I would never set foot in a Trek convention.🤣

Ian

Not very constructive. And if you read between the lines, you can tell he didn’t get to execute the show exactly as he wanted, so a clever probing of that would actually be worthwhile. Insulting him and his team after they worked so hard on this show is not.

alphantrion

Yeah, reading between the lines it becomes kind of obvious that his hands were tied in certain aspects of the show and I personally believe this is the reason why he is leaving the full on showrunning duties next year. He wants full creative control and freedom with his own property, which is understandable.

Hauke Fischer

I’m sure Chabon would have loved to stay on, but considering CBS AA was offering him the once-in-a-lifetime chance to helm the adaptation of his OWN work with Kavalier and Clay, it is no surprise he went that way (and CBS AA wouldn’t have offered it to him if they weren’t impressed with his work).

Ian

This does make sense. It’s not like how Bryan Fuller left Discovery to go on and have insoluble creative differences with every last studio in Hollywood.

alphantrion

Well, this is actually what I am trying to say. If he had more creative freedom and incentives to stay, I am sure he would have stayed on Picard and might have even considered doing both shows as showrunner. But I feel like he didn’t get the freedom he wanted to fully run the show as he wanted so he chose to get absolute creative freedom with his own property. I am just trying to read between the lines here.

DIGINON

Even on the show based on his own material he won’t have full control. There will always be other producers and studio executives with their own ideas. That’s the nature of the entertainment industry – it’s (almost) always a group effort.
I don’t think there’s a need to read between the lines when Chabon says he’s reducing his involvement in Star Trek Picard to have more time to focus on adapting Kavalier and Clay. Developing (and then running) a TV show is a lot of work, especially for someone who doesn’t have a lot of experience with TV production (like Chabon).

Boze

Frankly, he’s the one who started with insults with his recent Variety interview. Not having enough creative freedom might’ve been an acceptable excuse, and it would have brought him sympathy from fans – except he just didn’t know when to keep his mouth shut.

Even working hard can result in an inadequate product. That happens. When it happens, you’re supposed to hang down your head in apology and be silent – NOT to tell your customers they don’t know what they’re talking about.

Locutus

He didn’t “insult” the fans in that Variety interview. If anything, he expressed how interested he was to read how some fans liked it and some fans didn’t. He indicated that he often understood what they are talking about, even if he didn’t always agree with the criticism. He expressed how, as a fan, he has felt negative about new incarnations of Star Trek in the past, but grew to appreciate them for what they stood for more over time. He didn’t insult anyone, but he does acknowledge that he can’t please everyone. He doesn’t need to be apologetic, because he did the best he could and frankly for many fans it has been a very rewarding experience to watch the show—me included.

Tiger2

I just read that interview yesterday. How did he insult anyone? I didn’t remotely get that.

FASAfan

Red Letter Media pointed out this show has 21 producers!! Count them in the opening!!!

Edward Samuela

A lot of the stuff he mentions as being cut for time and pacing seems like it would have been interesting and filled in a lot of the gaps.

Does anyone know if CBS mandates the episodes be 40-ish minutes? Seems like in a streaming format they should be able to make each episode as long as they would like.

I kind of hope they move on to an entirely different story instead of dwelling on the loose ends of season one. Also, hell yes to Garak making an appearance. It would be interesting to know what happened to the Cardassians (and even Bajor) after the Dominion War. Did they join the Federation?

Beyond all of this though, is Chabon still going to be involved on a day-to-day basis? I thought he’s no longer the showrunner in season two?

alphantrion

I heard he was gonna write some episodes but he is not gonna be involved on a day to day basis. I believe they hired the showrunner of 12 Monkeys, Terry Matalas, to run the show next year. If he can bring his experience from 12 Monkeys to this, I don’t think we have anything to worry about. That show was good.

odradek

And he can bring in his Star Trek experience in, too. He started there.

German Trekkie

They absolutely could do a couple of short treks to tell the stories that where left hanging. Would be quite nice to see a Ramda centered episode and how the xBs form a community with Synthville :)
They even already have some footage of that presumably.

Also they could have a courtroom episode dealing with the Dr. Jurati Case.

Make it so.

Thorny

Part 2 of the finale was around 58 minutes.

Part I was only 43 minutes though.

They could have a bit more of the XBs coming together in that.

I like the idea of a Short Trek though.

Vulcan Soul

TG47, when he said the scene did not fit in after the editorial process I think he did not mean the length but the flow of the episode, especially near the end. Nevertheless, it is a pity, and it shows how the Borg were kind of “tacked on” in this season and not really a crucial part of the themes. Like Discovery, they put too much on their platter and stuff spilled over in the end. It was inevitable.

noraa

I wonder if CBS still has some plans for syndication? Hence why pretty much all the CBS AA shows adhere to the 40/45 min run time. Remember, Netflix, Amazon and Hulu started their lives as streaming services – CBS is still very much entrenched in broadcast television.

Legate Damar

Hopefully we’ll see more of Narek next season. His story doesn’t feel over. I also won’t be surprised if the next season is focused on the XBs.

Ian

The XB’s Seven apparently just leaves on the planet of androids? Might be nice!

Tiger2

To be honest I’m kind of hoping we don’t.

But yes definitely more Borg and Xbs, with an ACTUAL story line maybe.

Vulcan Soul

“To be honest I’m kind of hoping we don’t.”

Surprising no? The two REGULAR Romulans turned out kind of meh, while the two unannounced Romulans who were only in three episodes instantely became fan favorites!

Tiger2

Yeah unfortunately the villains just felt too one dimensional. Its the same issue with Discovery. I loved all the other Romulans for some reason and happy that Laris and Zheban may be coming back.

Vulcan Soul

Actually I meant Narek and Elnor (Narissa was not announced as part of the series cast). Elnor looked kind of cool in the previews, and his relationship to Picard special, but he kind of turned out the Harry Kim / Travis Mayweather of the season! Beyond establishing his background in one early episode, the writer didn’t know what to do with him apart from slicing people’s heads off which is… most unfortunate.

Tiger2

I liked Elnor but I agree with you. They didn’t seem to know what to do with him. He was basically just suppose to be Picard’s body man and I liked his background but he did very little in the show itself besides kill people lol. I did like a lot of his lines though. I never would’ve suspected he was suppose to be the comic relief.

And it sounds like you were pretty disappointed in the season VS reading a lot of your comments on this board. It’s a shame because you seemed to love the first few episodes like many of us.

Timeweaver

I disagree.
Narek was the only charakte who I found not to be one dimensional.

I found all other characters (especially the La Sirena crew) were flat and some of them annoying (i was always happy during the first episodes, if Raffi and Jurati where finally out of sight again..).

In my opinion ALL charakters did a huge progress during the last two/three final episodes…

I really hope he will be back.

And they need to complete Ohs story. I mean she was head of Starfleet Intelligence and a double agend – this should have some impact ;o

Ian

The Zhat Vash plot still makes no sense to me. Why did they choose Utopia Planitia as their target in the middle of the efforts to save the Romulans from the super super nova? Why not wait until the armada had been put to use? What was Oh thinking? I’m clearly oblivious to something here.

Legate Damar

Utopia Planitia is where the synths were. Oh clearly felt that it was worth sacrificing a few million of her own people if it meant saving the galaxy from the Synths.

Ian

…and she couldn’t just wait a month until the fleet that would help save her people had launched? It makes zero sense.

Tiger2

Completely with you Ian. Romulans seem to believe in self preservation more than anyone. Yeah, yeah they were worried about the galaxy as a whole but it makes ZERO sense to sabotage their own people the Federation was trying to help, especially when they could’ve just waited a few months. Clearly the Synth ban only delayed things since Maddox found another way regardless.

German Trekkie

I would not be surprised if Oh would now become an outcast among the Romulans. I mean, since the ban was lifted, and rather quickly, the whole story of her and the Zhad Vash seems to be out there, right? Including the fact that she contributed a lot to the loss of millions of romulan lives!
It would be really stupid if she just goes on being an romulan general from now on.
Let’s hope the writers do not make that mistake.

Tiger2

Yeah you would think so. That’s another disappointing thing about the finale to me though, that the Mars attack was never brought up or that Picard outed her and that it was the Zhat Vash responsible. It was just left in the wind like so many other things.

But yes maybe it will continue next season and we’ll see Oh again.

Hauke Fischer

That is the issue with fundamentalists/fanatics. They feel that ANY means are ok as long as it furthers their goals. And on top of that, by making the Romulans the victims of the attack the Zhat Vash diverted suspicion further away from the Tal Shiar. Raffi (being the slightly paranoid person she is) suspected foul play from the Tal Shiar from the get go (it’s in the novel), but it’s discarded as being preposterous for that exact reason.

noraa

There were a TON of people working at Utopia Planitia working on building this massive fleet. After the fleet had been built, there would naturally be significantly less people working there. As such, the attack by the synths at this specific time not only killed more people than it would have at any other time, it had a far more disruptive effect than if it had happened after the ships had been built.

Think of it this way. What if 9/11 had happened in the middle of the night? It still would have been a very impactful and terrible disaster, but it wouldn’t have had nearly the same impact as it did by occurring in the morning with people at work. Significantly less people would have been killed and the overall disruptive impact would have been lessened.

A34

Just look at how trump wants to sacrifice Americans to Wall Street and his pocket book.

German Trekkie

Now that I think about it… look how the most victims of islamstic terrorism are muslims.

Vulcan Soul

“I believe but am working to confirm that there are actually four distinct classes.”

Not much running the show, were we, showrunner? If these are “four distinct classes” on screen I’ll round off my ears ;)

On a more serious note, what bothers me even more than the (by now very well known) ugly Eaves aesthetics is how low quality is the rendering of these ships (polycount, details, textures, lighting). It looks like something out of an older video game or 1990s scifi shows.

Strangely enough, even though Picard should be their flagship show now (at least by popularity/viewers/streaming profits), it seems to have a much smaller budget than Discovery, as seen by the frequent corner-cutting on SFX (remember all the Discovery ships on there?) Or is Stewart eating up most of the budget?

alphantrion

Yeah, I have also noticed the distinct lack of quality in some of the space and ships shots in Picard ever since that brief space battle earlier in the season with Romulan Bird of Prey and Seven’s ranger ship. In fact at that time I remember commenting that the effects were actually looking like they were made for Enterprise which debuted nearly 20 years ago. For a series whose trademark was solid and impressive space shots, it makes me kind of sad to see the “reduced” quality in them.

Ian

I have a friend who worked on some of the VFX. He said they were often very rushed and disorganized. It could well be that by the time they did that fleet shot, no one had bothered to source the relevant Sovereign/Intrepid/Defiant/Akira/Prometheus etc. or Valdore/D’Deridex models in time to incorporate them.

Still, could have thrown in a few Galaxy classes, surely? We know they used that one!

DeanH

I watched a YT video this morning and they counted three different types of starships in their analysis. So four seems quite plausible.

Ian

Ah! What do I search for to find that one?

A34

Trekyards?

Vulcan Soul

Come on, I know they tweaked the nacelles or whatever tiny detail that is not visible on screen in a fleet of hundreds, but to call that “four DISTINCT types of starships” is the exaggeration of the century! (It also contradicts Riker’s line that his own ship is the toughest and meanest Starfleet ever build – so are the other 399…)

Curiosity Class. I like that, as far as snarky answers go. I’d of gone with Dunsel Class….

Vulcan Soul

What we really DESERVE to see on screen is the USS Colonel Kurtz, equipped with the franchise-busting canon cannon! Or did we already? ;)

Hat Rick

It’s meant seriously.

Checking in on Garak and Bashir? Oh yes please! But you can’t drop in on Julian without Miles. And if you’ve got Julian you’ll wanna see how Dax is doing. And if you’re…

…Oh hell, just give us Deep Space Nine season eight already.

odradek

I would prefer Star Trek: Sisko. With Jake as the lead.

Legate Damar

Without Odo it just wouldn’t be the same.

Thorny

Odo was a shapeshifter. They could get any actor to play him now. Rene Auberjonois was excellent, but I think he would be the first to say “the show must go on.”

Legate Damar

I don’t think anyone else could really play Odo. And, it would seem kind of pointless to bring the character back without Rene.

Deep Space Nine was a great show, but its over now. It might be nice to see some of its characters pop up in other shows, but the time for a season 8 is long past.

Tiger2

OMG, Garak and Bashir on this show together again??? My heart would melt. I would love for Bashir and Dax to be married and working in Starfleet medical together, but this show doesn’t exactly dwell on happily ever after lol.

German Trekkie

Make it so. But please throw O’Brien into the mix,too.
O’Brien belongs to the Bashir love triangle ;)
Or quadrangle?…

Sorry Tiger2, Ezri Dax is her own person. I don’t want to see her supporting anyone.

The books took on what it would mean for a counselor to take on managing all those strong past personalities in the symbiont, and most of us who’ve read the books think that they got it right having her switch to Command track. Notably, Star Trek Online took the same approach.

So, I and many others want to see Captain Ezri Dax, ideally on the aesthetically superior USS Aventine.

Complicated but friendly relationships with Worf and Bashir are part of the fun. Dax already modeled a healthy relationship with Worf, let another character take that on.

Tiger2

I don’t understand your feelings on this. Bashir and Dax were dating and in love when we last saw them on DS9, so I wouldn’t be shocked if they did get married. Or do you mean you just want to see her on a starship? Yeah I would be fine with that too, but if we listen to fans EVERY former character from a show would be a captain on a starship lol.

I don’t care too much what they do with them obviously, I just want to see them again if its ever in the cards.

Tiger2, the reason the Relaunch novels took Ezri in another direction wasn’t just so everyone gets to be a Captain. It just wouldn’t work to keep her a counselor.

It really seemed that Ezri, who had never expected to be joined, had to really dig deep to keep in charge of all the previous Host personalities in Dax. She had to let go of the insecurities established in her family of origin or be or continue to be overwhelmed.

She had to become the tough commanding counselor type that we see in Troi at her best, and that naturally led to a change over to Command track training.

More, it seemed as though the writers couldn’t see Ezri having patience to listen and coach others, when she was having to listen to the chorus inside herself. After all could you see Jadzia Dax or Curzon Dax or any of the previous hosts being content to help others manage their psychological health?

Last, the relationship with Bashir always seemed to me that both Ezri and Julian were exploring the ‘road not taken’ in Jadzia’s life, but it didn’t seem like something enduring.

Tiger2

Well as usual, that was a well thought out answer!

OK, I get your point now, I’m only going on from where they left her on the show itself and she seem like she would still continue to be a counselor. But as Picard has shown, 20 years can bring a lot of changes. ;D

But I really loved her and Bashir’s relationship. I would still hope that flourished. Nothing will ever be on the level in Star Trek of Riker and Deanna but I always liked them together although Worf and Dax was my second favorite couple in Trek.

ML31

Yeah, that would be great but I cringe at this group of writers writing them. At this point such a thing seems to be in the nostalgia pile.

Jay

Exactly, well said!

odradekk

A honest question: Can we assume that Federation law is one to one US law? I’m neighter jurist nor American. But for example under the law of may country Jurati would not even accused of commiting the act of murder.

DIGINON

Star Trek hasn’t delved into Federation law in detail. I guess since it is written by Americans and very much inspired by American culture you can probably assume that Federation law is at least similar to US law. It would be strange for American writers to base it on another country’s laws. Of course, they can make whatever adjustments they think make sense in the context of their story.

Andre Lamothe

It would be nice to see more of Riker and Troi.

Tiger2

Well its nice we got some real answers to some huge glaring story lines. I’m really appreciate that he answered so much and it makes things a lot more obvious now. But that said, I’m sorry they still had the time to put a few of those things in. It just feels a bit sloppy. I understand if we’re talking a two hour movie, but when you have 10 hours to weave these things in (and so much of the plotting in most of it could’ve used more story in general) it just sounds like it was badly managed. No different than what happened with Discovery’s first two seasons as well.

But at least we know there were real answers to a lot of it and they can still add a lot of it in next season, which I’m still super excited for lol. I don’t know WHY I keep doing this to myself but I liked all the hints he dropped about season 2 at least. And I’m thankful he made it clear the Enterprise is still out there somewhere (whew). Hopefully it’s being run by a certain Klingon captain (yes some of us will NEVER let go lol).

And get Janeway on this show!!! Clearly he gets enough questions about it lol. Blackmail Kate Mulgrew into doing it for ONE episode, whatever you have to do!!!! I would love for a Seven and Janeway reunion! :)

German Trekkie

I think Jeri Rian and Kate Mulgrew still have not reconciled, have they?

Ian

Jeri Ryan and Kate Mulgrew have reconciled.

Jay

Yes, I think they are in good terms. They were both very open about it. It seems they have forgive each other.

Hauke Fischer

Mulgrew apologized to Rian at conventions. There was a Q&A where she talked about feeling ashamed for her misdirected aggressions toward Ryan when it was the showrunners who were to blame.
https://www.closerweekly.com/posts/kate-mulgrew-star-trek-151582/
https://trekmovie.com/2017/07/02/kate-mulgrew-talks-sex-and-seven-of-nine-on-star-trek-voyager/

Tiger2

I am glad that they made up. Mulgrew was clearly in the wrong, but I understood how she felt of course, but it was misdirected. I don’t think I heard one bad thing said about Jeri Ryan working on Star Trek, ever. She seemed just as loved on the set as she is in fandom, with one big exception. ;)

DeanH

Maybe not ideal, but with the time restrictions and editing, sometimes the audience just has to use its own imagination to fill in the holes. That said, I appreciate that Chabon addreesed all the open questions. IMO probably it was weeks between the last two scenes of the show – so a lot happened. I too like that Chabon took the time to provide candid answers to all the questions we had about Nerek, the XBs etc. I laughed that he said Jurati needed a lawyer haha. These answers were a very nice way to end S1 so thanks to Chabon for answering and to Trekmovie.com for compiling and posting those answers. Great work because I would have never sifted through it myself.

Tiger2

Yeah some of them you can. But some of these were BIG issues that the show gave no hints to. OK, maybe they didn’t think it was important to fill us in that Seven and Raffi suddenly had a relationship literally out of nowhere but yes you can just fill that in and its not that important overall. But how could you POSSIBLY fill in that Jurati was on her way to turn herself in when A. the show never gave any indication of that and B. that they gave her such a nice and uplifting ending kissing Rios. It was literally set up like everyone forgot she just murdered someone less than a week ago.

And how are we suppose to remotely guess what was going to happen to the Xbs since, once again, they weren’t even MENTIONED by the synths. They dropped on their planet and they were literally ignored the entire time. And then the show gave us a hint it was going to be Seven herself that was going to replace Hugh and help them. I literally thought at the end we were going to see Seven taking the cube back into space or staying on the planet with them. When neither of those happened and she joined Picard’s crew instead it was a huge question mark because there was no indication anywhere what would even happen to them.

I am very grateful Chabon answered the questions but it doesn’t negate the fact a LOT of this was really really messy. Entire plot lines we been watching all season was just entirely ignored. They handled all the Synth and Data/Picard stuff well but everything felt like it got the shaft.

Mark

All this plot about good synths and bad synths and whether they were a threat or not, and synth twins, and I don’t think there was one mention of Lore. At all. Correct me if I am wrong, but it was weird.

Michael Sacal

There is nothing wrong with Raffi calling Picard JL. Spock used to call Kirk “Jim” before his resurrection. Kirk called McCoy “Bones”. Crusher called Picard Jean-Luc. Sisko called Dax “Old Man”. Familiarity and friendship trumps adherence to strict military protocol.

German Trekkie

Just an example how nitpicky some fans are. Don’t get me wrong, I see big problems with STPs storytelling as a whole. But focusing on sth. like Nicknames and rantig about it endlessly… not my cup of tea. I even do not object minor retcons, if they serve to tell a good story.
(consider, Data being so unique just works by ignoring that there where plenty of androids in TOS already. But do i mind? No.)

Pointing out inconsistencies where there are no inconsistencies just shows that some want to just validate their subjective view by “facts“ they pulled from their ****.

Thorny

Picard called Admiral Hansen “JP” in “The Best of Both Worlds”.

Pawl Stanley

I just don’t think “JL” sounds right. It seems to 21st century colloquial to me. It’s not like it’s really a syllable saver compared to Jean-Luc.

Paul Stanley, as someone who is an anglophone who works with francophones, let me share that calling someone J-L for Jean-Luc is entirely a thing.

Not sure the writers know this as they keep writing JL when it can only be J-L in French, but this is one thing that is precisely believable.

I don’t now how it works with the millennial francophones (who often have double-barrelled family names too), but at a certain point I worked with a couple of J-Fs (Jean-François), J-Js (Jean-Jacques), and some M-As (Marc-André).

The number of double barreled personal name variations is huge, and one never, ever just says Jean or Luc. It’s either Jean-Luc or J-L.

jlm

Oh well, I am a millennial named Jean-Luc, and ‘jl’ is just a way of talking, not colloquial nor familiar. I noted it was easier for my non-french relations, avoiding pronouncing ‘gin’ . Same as jf, jp, etc it is just done that way in France 20th century (these double names with Jean have mostly disappeared in the 60s)

ML31

Yes. I felt that was a wasted question as I didn’t see an issue there either. It feels totally fair that someone JL works with might be close enough to call him that. Just because he wasn’t close enough to any of his Enterprise crew doesn’t mean others might be.

Michael Sacal

He and Crusher were very close and on a first-name basis. She called him Jean-Luc and he called her Beverly.

ML31

True but Rafi shortened it to the still less formal ‘JL’.

Michael Sacal

Nothing wrong with that.

ML31

I never thought there was anything wrong with it.

Commander K

Great he takes time to answer questions, shame he answered some of the stupider ones which were a waste.

Nachum

Ah, we knew Chabon had a real chip on his shoulder about Jews and Judaism, but that gratuitous dig really confirms it.

(Come to think, it’s a gratuitous dig at the religions of at least three billion people. But Chabon is “enlightened”, so it’s OK.)

Hauke Fischer

umm Chabon IS Jewish :)

Nachum

You think I don’t know that? Most often, the people with the biggest beefs with Jews and Judaism are Jews. Chabon is on the record about this. Heck, I’m Jewish and have problems with Jews, but I don’t put it in as blatantly offensive way as Chabon does here.

Legate Damar

I’m a Jew, and I didn’t see anything offensive in what Chabon wrote.

Nachum

Well, Damar being one of my favorite characters I don’t want to start a fight :-), but he explicitly said a very negative thing about the God that I, Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship.

Here’s a thought experiment: Do you think Chabon would ever say, “Oh, the Federation isn’t Shiva” or “The Federation isn’t Allah”? Not in a million years. How about “The Federation isn’t the Chinese government”? I suppose in the latter cases you could say it would be self-preservation (physical and financial, respectively), but not in the former.

Sully

I’m not homophobic in the slightest, but why make an established character gay just for the sake of it? It just cheapens the inclusion of a gay character, as it comes across as a virtue signalling tick box exercise – a la Sulu in Star Trek Beyond. Let’s have people actually bothering to run their eyes over early drafts of the script and have someone supervise the editing process to eradicate plot holes, rather than prioritising the wrong things to the detriment of the narrative (Narek’s fate anyone?!).

Nachum

Especially when- since gay people look just like everyone else- you have to consciously write, film, and insert a scene, focusing on it to make sure everyone sees it. And then we go on to everything you listed.

Hauke Fischer

When you start a sentence with “I’m not hompophibic, but…” what comes after is usually a homophobic statement, even if you aren’t aware of that yourself.
Considering that we earlier in the season have had strong implications that Seven is at least bi-curious and had an affair with Bjayzl (which was a ploy on her part to get to Icheb) this scene isn’t about Seven coming out as such, but rather that she’s starting to be able to open herself up again to love and affection.
Would you have batted an eye if she’d been holding hands with Elnor (well if he wasn’t as young as he is)?

German Trekkie

“I’m not homophobic, but do these people have to shove it in our faces? Everyone can do what they want. At home. But my children should not have to see two men or women kissing.“

Sorry for ranting again. But in order to check yourself, I recommend asking yourself if you would think/feel/say a certain thing about a straight white male person (or any person you think is the personification of your “normal“).

Would you say “I am not heterophobic, but why make (male charakter) and (female character) a couple? Just so you have aund token hetero couple?“
Sound ridiculous, doesn’t it?

German Trekkie

Why would you make an established character or any character deliberately cis straight? Because it’s the default?
Face it. You are a tiny bit homophobic. You are clearly unconfortable with it.
And don’t get me wrong.
I myself am too from time to time. Because I was raised in a culture with homophobic tendencies. Because our societies still tell us it’s not quite normal. But I am working on it. In order to normalize all kinds of sexual orientation among growm individuals, such things have to be shown. I appreciate the casual nature of the scene. They are telling us, its no big deal. Which it shouldn’t be. But sadly it still is. And posts like yours and mine are proof of it.

Ricardo Alardo Schmardo

Sexuality is totally irrelevant to anyone other than the people involved. Why would it matter to anyone else? Both good looking girls, but I’m on the wrong side, or so it seems!

If you want to go down that road, then Picard is a sexual eunuch, and he’s the main character. Is that what you’re after more of? I know Picard is getting on a bit but he was never one for ‘letting his hair down’, or even his guard.

German Trekkie

Last but not least: Seven is probably Pan or Bi, not gay. In case one cannot wrap his head around the fact she also dated Chakotay. When you live in a universe where several species don’t even have sexes or sexes that fall into the male/female spectrum (Shape Shifters, Trill Symbionts, J’naii, Vissians…) to be Pan is sure as hell among the more common orientations out there ;)

Nachum

Damn, I really wanted Seven and the Doctor to wind up together. :-)

A34

You’re homophobic. Get help.

Sully

Oh dear. Predictably you are unable to have a discussion about character consistency without deeming me anti-gay. The source material of Seven where she dates men is valid. What a shame you cannot have a grown up discussion without casting aspersions. What a scary place the world must be to you.

Sully, Voyager was very clear that Seven was exploring human relationships and sexuality, and that the process was in its early stages. There is no continuity problem because Seven was still discovering who she was as an XB.

Just because every unattached heterosexual male character was shown as attracted to her (even the holographic doctor), to the point that it was a running joke, says nothing about Seven’s own identity or preferences.

Tiger2

The crazy thing about Seven and being gay is I just read an article about this yesterday that when Seven was originally created for Voyager, Jeri Taylor, one of the creators and show runners of the show originally wanted Seven to be gay! There was an old 1998 quote in the article where she said that’s how she originally saw Seven but it was a losing battle since I guess the network and others were against it at the time.

So its actually not that left field at all knowing that. I guess in a way you can see it that she was just in the closet during that time and didn’t come out until later in life. Yes I know it’s Star Trek and she was a Borg, that idea seems antiquated but it doesn’t mean there still can’t be hang ups. ;)

Edit: I went back and found the article I read.

https://checkersaga.com/star-trek-finally-confirms-a-major-characters-lgbtq-status/14519/

Pretty interesting that was originally the plan and over 20 years later it finally happened lol.

Thanks for sharing Tiger2.

Sully

Thank you Tiger2 for a valuable contribution to this topic. This is interesting and indeed valid if Jeri Taylor saw this panning out way back when. It offers food for thought, context and furthers the discussion. Much less lazy and virtue signallingly reactive than some.

Tiger2

Yeah no worries. And I think people do jump the gun a bit too much calling you out as being homophobic when you were just talking about Seven in general. You are RIGHT, every relationship we seen with Seven on Voyager were heterosexual relationships so it would be a surprise to find out now she was gay or bisexual for some. Others are right in saying she was still probably exploring her sexuality then, so I can buy it, but we still ONLY saw her explore it with one sex only. And my guess is no one on the show actually thought of her as bisexual. But she is now, so fine.

I’m as liberal as they come but its ridiculous for people to call out someone as being prejudice JUST for questioning it as you did. People can’t just tell you why they think you’re wrong without judging you over it.

But I do think knowing this piece of info it makes us see the character in a new light and she is actually being developed in a way she was originally meant to be, so I’m good with that! I’m excited to see where this all goes with her and Raffi next season now. And they’re both a bit messed up in the head so it should be interesting lol.

I think Jeri Taylor is smiling over this somewhere!

Ian

It’s not the end of the world. If any character is going to find herself like that, it’s Seven. Remember, she only had her failsafe implant from Human Error removed in Endgame. The Seven we see now is a product of her having been able to explore her feelings more deeply, and there’s no reason why that could not include bi-sexuality. As much as I would have loved to see her written closer to how she was in Voyager (as it was so unique and Ryan excelled at it), this character now does make sense.

If anything, we should be lamenting that every single fling Seven has comes out of nowhere (Unimatrix Zero, suddenly being in love with Chakotay after only hinting at an attraction in Human Error and none at all in Natural Law)!

Making JJ Sulu gay was more egregious because it used George Takei’s own sexuality for its purposes, and by doing so knowingly went against Takei’s artistic wishes as he had never once played Sulu as anything but heterosexual. That flap led Simon Pegg to have to write a convoluted retcon about the Kelvin destruction also going back in time and doing things like making Sulu be born gay. Lordy. A well-meaning gesture that should have been left alone. What Discovery for gay characters all in all is fine (though subverting Bury Your Gays with a technobabbly resurrection isn’t exactly high drama, and it foreshadowed a similar thing happening to Picard). The addition to Seven’s character is fine too IMO.

Nachum

I’m just curious- have been since the movie came out- what made Sulu straight. How did Takei play him that way? While all the other male characters had relationships with women, and Uhura flirted here and there at least, I can’t remember Sulu having any. In “The Naked Time” he acted all chivalrous to Uhura, but he was sick and that’s some sort of adventure, not romance. Mirror Sulu came on to Uhura, but that’s the Mirror Universe. There was one TAS episode where he was conjured this female fantasy, but does that even count?

Takei *did* write a DC comic in which Sulu has a serious romance with a woman. So that counts, I guess.

ML31

Actors will often fill in the blanks themselves if they feel they need something to help them find the person they are playing.

Tom

Interesting that he has a clue about the Movie franchise. Could mean cbs is involved. Not sure how well these shows would transfer to the big screen.

Nachum

Except Star Trek is now one big happy company.

Tom

True but what movie would they make? Discovery?

Nachum

Good point. But it just may be coordination.

Matt

It got a bit messy in the finale but I did enjoy how the ending did connect with the beginning and they showed restraint by not having a massive XPLLOSSIOOONSSS space battle. My main issue is that on an episode by episode basis I do not get my trek dopamine hit —- I will binge watch this season and maybe it will land better for then. There has been nothing presented in serialized star trek that I could not get from any serialized show and sadly Picard feels like the readers digest version of a star trek show in terms of true character development and growth — and that sucks because these are intriguing characters and superb actors.

Cmd.Bremmon

I would like to know if he really feels life is just a bunch of robots with programming and we are all tricked into being a live or if he thinks there is more to life (such as we are in a simulation)?
Also I would like to know if in retrospect he feels the show was more dehumanizing than he liked (Picard tossing away his friends, his friends tossing not mourning him for a photocopy)?
Finally if AI = life are we now going to see a Starfleet or super strength, live forever, breathe in space Data’s, EMH and starships that a combination of both and if not, why? Would he not be discriminating by this own theme to block this now?

ML31

Among the many ramifications of this is that there is no mortality anymore. People can literally live forever. Didn’t Picard say our mortally defines us? I guess not any more.

Cmd.Bremmon

I don’t get why “Data wanted to commit suicide” made any sense. Why doesn’t he want to help others still while he can? Why wouldn’t he want to learn more, TNG has tricked him into thinking he knows everything I suppose which is false. Hell, even V’ger wanted to keep learning. Very sad how we ended up tossing away organic Picard for a photocopy and then made said photocopy want to commit suicide too. Whole thing screams dehumanizing to me.

ML31

It was also him asking his Captain to murder him. Which it would be to Picard since in his mind Data was a real sentient life form on par with humans and Klingons and such. It wasn’t even a mercy killing since if it really was Data he could just be uploaded into a “mortal” body. Hence even more reason to see the scene as happening only in Picard’s head just so he can have some personal closure.

joe

Ill be honest, as a 40 year Star Trek fan, i hated this show and hope Chabon and Kurtzman never touch anything Trek again.

DIGINON

This is not meant as an attack but I’m pretty sure your hope won’t come true. CBS seems to like what Kurtzman and Chabon are doing with Trek. This sucks for people who are unhappy with the current shows but individual fans don’t get to decide who oversees the franchise.

Tiger2

Chabon confirmed Picard is the most watched original show on AA, which surprises no one lol, but I think only encourages them their direction on the show was a success. It doesn’t mean it can’t be improved but clearly the show and format itself seems to be popular. I guess next season will really know how popular it is since the curiosity factor is now gone, sort of like what happened with the first and second Kelvin movie.

But of course it does suck if others just don’t like it and I understand why too obviously. For some people, they are not going to like where Trek is going these days and that’s OK. Hopefully there will be a more traditional Star Trek show again and why so many seem to be pining for a Pike show. But I think even that is going to disappoint a lot of people too if it happens.

ML31

I think it obvious the reason for this. They have a known character. And they used other known characters in this show. Unfortunately what this means is they don’t go so much for original characters but touch on what has come before instead. Would be nice if one of these new shows is wholly original. That is, do not rely on existing characters to bring in audience. how about just being good to get an audience?

Tiger2

Well yeah, that’s the entire reason its even a show. No one would be begging to do a Picard show if he wasn’t already one of the most iconic and loved characters in the franchise. That said if people really do hate the show, its not going to stay that strong forever either.

And me and you talked about this before, we both know there probably wouldn’t even be a Picard show if Discovery wasn’t so divisive and people wasn’t complaining about wanting a post-Nemesis show again. They wanted to find a way make the fanbase more united again and this was it. Now, it may not have be as sucessful as they want but it at least seems more popular and less divisive than Discovery turned out to be at least.

I think we will get another original show in time. That’s basically what Lower Decks will be at least. But yeah as much as I love the idea of Picard and seeing past characters from TNG and VOY (and my guess even MORE next season) I always stated I would be fine to see a totally original show. We got that with TNG, DS9 and VOY and they all did great! So it can happen again.

ML31

I’s like to see a wholly original show myself. Lower Decks may be as close as we are going to get for a while. But my issue is really that Secret Hideout doesn’t exactly have a great track record with their Trek treatment. Picard thus far has been their best effort and it was still pretty sub par. Part of me is thinking their decision to do a full season story arc over a short season is a bit of a problem. If the season were longer they would have tome to insert some quasi stand alones into the story like S3 of Enterprise did. Otherwise, the problem is if the overall story is weak the entire season is weak. And I have to say, the overall story for Picard was pretty weak. The main theme was of course Picard’s personal journey but the story surrounding it was suspect at best. Creating a weak movie essentially. I think this series ranked a little below Insurrection in terms of a Trek film. Which is what if feels fair to compare it to.

alphantrion

You know in general being popular doesn’t equal with being good all the time. But unfortunately in many peoples eyes it is the biggest source of success. The last Star Wars films were popular but no one can deny that they were blatant rehashes of the original trilogy. It was like reheating a microwave dish, only with more flavor and toppings.

Michael K

Chabon is a gift to this franchise for sure, it’s so refreshing to see his interactions with the fans and how unbridled he is. It gives me the sense that the show has one visionary without the obvious creative turmoil. I do find his comments about Section 31 amusing considering the Section 31 show in development. I am not entirely surprised by the comment about Seven, she wasn’t a main cast member this season so expecting her to become one next season was probably wishful thinking which makes that final shot a little less hopeful for me. I am wondering how Season 2 will have the dramatic thrust of this season, I don’t know how you tell a story bigger than this one. I think there is room to tell a more coherent story with better script-writing. Ultimately I think this season squandered the bigger story but still brought us incredible episodes and moments. As much as I like Chabon, I’m hoping for some better storytelling that does a better job unpacking his ideas and concepts into a compelling dramatic narrative. The changes for Season 2 might help in that regard. A bigger more lavish budget would also help aid the world building I was really hoping to see in the 24/25th century, Picard felt a little constrained even compared to TNG and DS9. I hate to harp on budget, but some things were creatively cut short because of it. I have a hard time believing the creators envisioned the Admonition landmark as a ring surrounded by few landscape rocks…just one of many examples that doesn’t include the lack of Federation ships and reused holographic Chateau sets.

German Trekkie

I feel the need to go bigger and raise the stakes everytime is a huge mistake. Sure enough, the “Destruction of all sentient life“ is so tired by now, i never want it applied to any Star Trek season or episode ever again.
Give me a poignant moral dilemma on a smaller scale anyday over doom and gloom.

Michael K

I agree that the smaller character stories are what made the biggest impact this season. The bigger plots (Romulan Plot, Borg, AI) pretty much served as a frame for those characters. The only parts of the story that paid off for me where those character stories, none of the bigger plot framing for this season worked for me. But my complaint about the budget really comes down to feeling like the show is telling rather than showing so much of its story. And then once we get to the pivotal action scenes, they feel constrained and creatively limited.

Ian

When Chabon said they seriously pondered just doing a smaller show about Picard based out of his vineyard with problems coming to him, I fell in love with that idea.

German Trekkie

I have a theory that all the “big stuff“ came from others and Chabon could not help it. I really believe Chabon is a greatheck writer ofobjektivem character moment, but surenot enough he is not too familiar with hard scifi stories, IMHO.
Maybe Goldsman, Beyer. And even Partick Steward pushed for more romp and a bigger scale?…

Ambaryerno

I’m scrambling to find any sort of foreshadowing for Seven and Raffi. Seven spent the entirety of Stardust City in Vengeful Angry Mamma Bear mode, and mostly interacted with Picard, with lots of focus on their pasts with the Borg. By the time she reunited with Elnor on the Artifact, La Sirena had already skedaddled, taking Raffi with it. I can’t even recall them interacting after the Artifact crashed; once again, Seven spent most of her time with Elnor.

Seven LITERALLY had more screen time with Elnor, Hugh, or Rios than she did with Raffi.

And while there has been a few hints in the past that sexuality is much more fluid by the late and post-TNG era than it is in our time, it’s a bit distracting whenever I see a character whose canonical relationships have previously all been heterosexual (IE Seven) suddenly “outed” without preamble. It makes the whole thing feel unearned and a bit disingenuous.

If it’s going to be a thing with an established character, it’s something that as a viewer I need to SEE built on. Innuendo between Seven and Bjayzl about a relationship that MAY have happened completely off-screen and we were never privy to DOESN’T QUALIFY.

German Trekkie

So, People have to earn their right to be anything but heterosexual?…
You said it yourself. By the 24th century this should not be an issue at least, and to show such things as if they where no big deal is exactly the right way to do it.

I am probably the only one bothered a bit though that Chris and Agnes became a couple. They had casual sex in my opinion, something that should be no big deal either. But somehow they had to build upon it and say: See, it was not just sex! See?
Even in TNG and TOS people seemed to be more casual and free with their sexuality… (thinking of Data more than of Kirk here ;)

ML31

“And yes, his body was organically cultured and grown.”

I don’t see how that makes it OK considering where the character has stood on that matter over the years. Unless he suddenly changed his moral code.

“He is gone. That is what he wanted.

“He was ready.”

He was ready 17 years ago when he decided to save everyone. In this case, it was PICARD who was finally ready.

“That is how he wanted it, how he always imagined it. Perhaps he even experienced the passage of many years in a few seconds.”

No, this is what Picard’s mind wanted. It was a way to help with his closure.

“Maybe they’ve devolved.”

They didn’t look very devolved coming through that portal.

But… he didn’t answer some questions that I had… Like was was the mission of the cyborg twins? It was never revealed. Why was no one concerned that Soong was essentially a God on his little planet crating all life on a whim whenever he wanted? Why is no one concerned that any android at any time can just recreate the tower and bring in the killer tentacles?

Dr C

“ Why was no one concerned that Soong was essentially a God on his little planet crating all life on a whim whenever he wanted?”

And… when Riker, whose son died thanks to the android ban, discovered that Soong had been there that whole time, creating artificial life forms, wouldn’t that have pushed him over the edge?

Wouldn’t he have been furious? Had he known about this planet he could have brought his son there to get his treatment.

Riker was always somewhat emotional (see “the icarus factor”, “Future imperfect”, “second chances”, “gambit” for instance), so wouldn’t the discovery of Soong’s Planet unhinge him?

It just seems doubtful that Riker would turn up and be all cheerful and like “ima kick yo ash you treacherous bench” (which sounded so decidedly un-Riker, I mean, the guy was reasonably articulate in TNG), rather than insisting on taking Soong into custody or losing his grip altogether since his son could still be alive.

But we had the “cavalry rides to the rescue” scene in there so I guess that’s all that matters.

Maybe the next spinoff will focus on a new crew on a Starfleet ship exploring strange new worlds in a previously uncharted area of space…

Chancellor Gowron

Why would he be mad at Soong? It’s not Soong’s fault that he needed to keep his androids secret. If Riker was going to be mad at anyone, it would be the Federation for instituting the ban.

Dr C

That assumes Riker’s anger would be rational. He (Riker) comes across a man who has been making artificial life forms and realised that man has flouted the ban all these years. He (Soong) could have helped people like Riker but chose to hide. I just think Riker takes the whole thing in stride like it’s just another day.

Tiger2

Sorry I don’t agree with this either. I don’t see Riker being upset at Soong, he would be angry at the Federation. How can anyone be blamed when their work is literally considered illegal by the government to the point they had to go into hiding to continue doing it?

ML31

I wouldn’t think so. He is a 24th century human. He would know it wouldn’t bring his son back. If he was that rash he would hop in a mid 23rd century time suit go back and save his son. Also, just because he was a bit emotional 20 years ago doesn’t mean he still is. People tend to mellow with age.

Dr C

Fair point about mellowing. However we still see flashes of the old Riker (“shields up!” Etc. On Nepenthe) so who knows.

I wonder if Worf ever told Riker about all the time crystals beneath the Borath monastery? Riker could definitely have built a century old time suit with one of those bad boys.

Legate Damar

I doubt Worf knew about them. The time crystals were separate from the rest of the monastery, and were a closely guarded secret.

Dr C

I never realised Data wanted to die. I thought he always wanted to be human. Since Mr Chabon says Soong could have grown a new body and downloaded Data into it, then this was Data’s only chance to finally become human (ok, he turned down Riker when he offered to make him human but that was for TNG reasons in s1).

Now, had Data not known that cloning Android bodies and putting positronic brains in them existed, then I could understand Data being sick of digital limbo, but when he discovered that his secret brother had created a way of putting his (Data’s) brain into a human body, wouldn’t he (Data) have jumped at the chance, rather than simply asking to die?

Transferring Data into the golem body would have granted him 2 of his wishes: becoming human and becoming mortal. He could have stayed on bouillon 4 and had a long conversation with his brother which explained how he was even born.

I was sad when Data died in Nemesis. I understood his sacrifice, it had emotional weight to it, and I didn’t need a resolution. Data did not need to die a second time.

Also, I loved that many of the ships in the Riker fleet had blue boosters on the rear ends of the warp nacelle rocket engines. That way I know how the warp speed pushes the ship forward.

ML31

“I was sad when Data died in Nemesis. I understood his sacrifice, it had emotional weight to it, and I didn’t need a resolution. ”

Yes!! This!! This was also the only tie in the entire run of the movies and TV show where this robot of a character brought forth any kind of feeling for him. It had the best moments for the Data character and it gave him a heroic ending. It works much better set up the way the writer apparently did not intend but was the way the scene was set up. This this was all created by Picard’s brain trying to come to terms with the sacrifice is crewmate made.

Tiger2

“This was also the only tie in the entire run of the movies and TV show where this robot of a character brought forth any kind of feeling for him.”

This isn’t true though. Picard has gone to bat for Data several times. The biggest was in First Contact when he was willing to sacrifice his own life just to free Data from the Borg. And then again in Insurrection he felt he had to find and catch Data personally because he was afraid Starfleet was willing to kill him after he turned against them and kicked off that entire story line. This is the same captain who was also willing to put his entire starfleet career on the line for Data when he refused Starfleet’s order to turn over his daughter Lal to them. You don’t do things like that for a ‘robot’ you don’t have any feelings for or attachment to.

You keep saying over and over again Picard didn’t have real feelings for him when you constantly over look all the things Picard was willing to do to the point of putting his own career and even life on the line for him. This show simply continued that theme, its not remotely anything new to it.

ML31

I think you misunderstand… I meant someone watching. An audience member. As an audience member it was the first time I actually felt for Data. That is quite the feat considering… I also never claimed Picard did not form some sort of attachment to Data. His failure to get over the Data sacrifice shows this.

Tiger2

Well OK, I understand now. But its not the first time I felt for Data, quite the opposite. There are a LOT of times I felt for him. And I’m sure there are plenty who feel like I do. You just never seem to be a big fan of Data in general, which is fine, but people who generally love the character for decades now I think they would soundly disagree with that. At the very least I do.

ML31

I know that Data was a popular character. I just never cared for the character and one of the impressive things in Nemesis is that film managed to GET ME to care about the character. It was the first time. They are doing something right if they can elicit a positive response from someone who didn’t care about a character. The scene where he deactivated B4 was surprisingly touching and his decision to go after his captain was probably both the most logical and human thing he as ever done. It was obvious he had reached the apex of his character arc. There really was nowhere more for him to go. I felt it was if not glorious a very satisfying and appropriate exit. And was surprised that some who already cared about the character wouldn’t see it the same way.

Tiger2

And that’s all fine. I don’t really disagree with you much on that. And as I have said before I didn’t have an issue with Data being killed off in Nemesis, especially since that’s what Spiner wanted, but it did feel a little hollow because Data didn’t get to say goodbye the way we saw Spock say it to Kirk in TWOK. I think thats what always upsetted his fans most, not that he died, but how he died. Now, it was probably more realistic (as realistic as these things can be lol) but from a dramatic POV it just wasn’t satisfying ending for a lot of his hardcore fans.

But as you said you’re not a big fan of his so it worked for you. And I sure it worked for some of his fans as well. But I think what was delivered in Picard is just way more satisfying (especially with all the praise its getting) because it felt like real closure for both the character and his fans. Obviously its not remotely realistic but as I always strive to make the point, very few things about Star Trek is. ;)

Muse

I don’t think people are seeing this as I saw it —It wasn’t actually Data. The original Data died. I saw this Data as kind of an ECHO of the original Data, a literal ghost in the machine, with nowhere to go. It wasn’t stated explicitly, and I think it should have been, but i believe it would have been impossible to transfer this echo into the golem because it was just a fragment of Data’s positronic matrix. The whole sequence for me was more a case of laying ghosts to rest rather than a “second death”.

ML31

Yes. I saw it similarly the difference being was that it was all in Picard’s head. It was Picard who desperately felt he needed some sort of closure and his mind concocted that scene just so he could sleep at night again.

Jlex

When you don’t have a better answer, just do the non-answer answer or answer the question with another question. Good training by their publicist(s).

Tiger2

He answered plenty though! Seriously, he gave direct answers to the fate of the XBs, Nark, Jurati, Data, Picard and Seven. He didn’t answer EVERYTHING because clearly they are saving things for next season but basically all the questions people had about the finale itself, he answered it. What do you think he avoided in that regard?

'Drew

Had I known about this, I would have asked: “Is Picard’s eulogy of Data going to be the mission statement for the writing in Season 2?”

(For reference: “It says a great deal about the mind of Commander Data that looking at the human race, with all its violence and corruption and willful ignorance, he could still see kindness, immense curiosity, and greatness of spirit, and he wanted more than anything else, to be part of that.”)

Denny C

He answered every question I had after the finale. Nice!

Roger S

If (per Agnes) the androids have to be created as twinned pairs (never explained why unless I missed that), where’s Picard II?

He is a transfer from a biological living mind.

New synthetic minds are cloned in pairs from a parent mind. So, if Picard wanted to have offspring from his synthetic mind, they would be twins.

ML31

But… WHY???? There is no reason for that. It feels nonsensical just like the foolishness of Data’s inability to use contractions.

Jay

The new Picard is a new experiment. To my understanding he is not the same as Dajh and Soji. Does not necessarily means he will have a twin. We only saw one Golum, right?

Jack

How did Agnes (who’s not Starfleet) know about the Picard Maneuver? Did she wikipedia him? Also “make it so.”

Or is he so famous that everybody knows that stuff?

The season wasn’t perfect – but it was nice seeing everybody.

Legate Damar

She was in Starfleet. In episode 1, she mentioned that Maddox recruited her from Starfleet.

ML31

i just recall her working at the Daystrom institute. Don’t recall anything about her being in Star Fleet. Even Maddux seemed like he was long removed from there.

Jay

At some point Dr. Jurati said she was on Starfleet.

ML31

Well, I did not remember such a reference and she sure didn’t act like what one might expect from any kind of Star Fleet veteran. Of course it very well could have easily been mentioned in the show. Not disputing that at all.

Jay

I have been processing the final episode for a couple of days. After watching the episode today for the third time, I am very sad about Data, the character itself. We have been waiting over 20 years to revive our beloved android, just to see him alive for less than 20 minutes.

I totally understand Brent Spinner not wanting to play Data again. At his age, is tough to wear green make up, yellow contact lenses, limited emotions, etc. But for me the explanation, the ending result is very unfortunate. In this episode, I can see how much time they have put into showing us his death, rewriting what happened, very thoughtful, to make us sad about death, missing someone we love….But the reasons given, for his desire to end his life, for me are not valid.

First of all, Picard. After so much sadness and regret for his death in Nemesis, he has the unique opportunity of the impossible, to reunite with Data, to say I’m sorry, I missed you, I love you. Data in the other side is like (without his emotion chip in place, I guess), “I know what is happening, please help and assist me to end my life”.

Data is locked in this simulation alone for 20+ years and right after he meet Picard, Data tells him “I am alone, tired, please help me die”???

If they were able to download Picard. Why they didn’t download Data as well? If Data knew all the details how Picard ended up there with him and soon leaving in transit to a new body, that means AI Soong has a way to communicate with him. He knows the opportunity to have a new body as well.

Picard succeeded to save all organics and synths in an epic battle to save the whole galaxy. The Admiral is always all about life, the right to live. The big responsibility to be alive. Then, he dies and goes to this simulation, overwhelmed to see Data again. Data, so depressed, all these years alone is not happy at all to see him, to spend more time with him. He is like, I am glad I saved your live against Shinzon, I made a copy of my memories in case I have a bad day, but anyway I am ready now to die for good.

Obviously he is deppressed being locked down for all this time. But if he doesn’t have emotions in the simulation, why he doesn’t have patience?

On top of that, Picard is like “OK, I will help you die”. I will help you die without no speech about saving life, the life of his best friend? After so long thinking he was dead, Picard is like, well, we only have 20 minutes of this finale to say goodbye to Data.

Its OK for me what the show runners decide, seriously. I am thrilled with everything, Discovery, Picard, can’t wait for the upcoming shows and movies…but I am still scratching my head about Data.

Anyway, I give a 10 out of 10 for Picard. Thank you CBS. Congratulations to Sir Patrick. Grateful he is back for us. Congratulations for Kurtzman and his creative team. All of the executive producers. The old and the new characters, thank you!

German Trekkie

Everyone and their grandmother where lead to believe that Data will return in the body of B4 for over a decade. I am surea there is plenty of fanfic out there exactly doing that. I never played STO but I guess its the same there. Not to mention the countdown comics from 2009.

So, STP was a way so say to the audience: its not gonna happen. This door is closed for good.
It’s clear as day that this is what Brent Spiner wants anyway.

But the rather elegant thing is: STP actually gave him more of a legacy than Nemesis ever could. Granted, there is B4, but he was established to be more primitive. But say what you want about STP… it showed that Datas Essence survived and even sparked a whole civilization in his image. This is more than he could have hoped for.
We all strive to become better versions of ourselves (i hope). But when our time ends, our children are the ones to continue this journey. And Data now has plenty of them :D

PS I just had a kind of epiphany lol

Picard always had a silent, nagging regret that he never founded a family of his own. And with the death of Robert and his Family, the Picard Bloodline even ceased to exist.
Now, with Picard being a Synth he practically entered a whole species he can call his family now, didn’t he? It sounds far fetched, but you could say the Picard-Golem is the spiritual child of the Soongs, Agnes and Maddox. Which would make Data kind of his “biological“ Father and Dajh his Sister…
Or is Data his Brother now? I confuse myself now, but i think i am on to something here…

odradek

Soong is the father, Picard the son and Data the holy ghost. Incarnation in plastic.
They really plagiarized Phillip K Dick for christian mysticism

ML31

Wow. One can only deduce that there is great love for the Data character. I feel like only those who really loved Data going into this would see things in that kind of way. But I was never a Data fan so I just didn’t see it this way. In fact, the only time I really cared about the Data character was in Nemesis. That was the only place he seemed to really work for me. I felt he already had a noble end.

Cmd.Bremmon

I don’t get why “Data wanted to commit suicide” made any sense. Why wouldn’t he want to learn more, TNG has tricked him into thinking he knows everything I suppose which is false. Hell, even V’ger wanted to keep learning. Very sad how we ended up tossing away organic Picard for a photocopy and then made said photocopy want to commit suicide too. Whole thing screams dehumanizing to me.

Tiger2

Guys the reality is Brent Spiner just doesn’t want to play Data anymore so they killed him off for good…again. Yes from a story POV we know they could revive Data in some fashion but we also know in the real world the actor had moved on from the character long ago and they just wanted to give him a nice and better send off than he got in Nemesis. And since fans won’t accept another actor playing Data unless its a complete reboot like the Kelvin cast then this was really their only option.

I’m sure if Spiner was convinced to play Data again full time he would probably be sitting on that ship with Picard and the rest of them at the end of the finale. But it is what it is.

Jack

Learn more where? He’s existed in a computer program for decades with, apparently, no way of interacting with the outside world. It’s the equivalent of being in a coma.

Tiger2

Ah another great point Jack. Yes, I agree with you, this was his version of being in a coma and simply wanting to die. I really love this analogy! :)

Jack

This. The death of Data in Nemesis was neutralized by hints at his resurrection in B4.

FASAfan

Ok. I quit reading about 75% of the way through. Chabon says, “Who even knows…” when speaking of the ancient AI, and I think that pretty much sums up the whole thing: Who even knows.

A LOT of plot holes, non sequiturs, and unresolved threads in this series.

tom riker

that was great… i hope the terrible star trek fans appreciate this… the narek thing was bothering me and the xbs so was nice to hear… since it’s streaming i don’t see why it couldnt have just been longer to include it all… or it was edited out from script to filming… LOVE he knows something about the next trek movie… and seven YES will be in next season… and that he loves garak as we all do… rare treat for fans to converse with the showrunner like this

ORFF

Where is Beverly Crusher?!

Red shirt

Will the CGI be finished before the Blu Ray release?

JSM-73

And in another Q&A over at ‘the other place’, Chabon had this to say about killing off Icheb and Hugh: “When we talked about it, we definitely had a sense of like, there’s probably going to be some people who are upset that these characters have died. And we were okay with that, because we thought in both cases, neither death was gratuitous.”

Neither death was gratuitous…… I guess eyeball removal without anaesthetic torture isn’t gratuitous to him… explains a lot about the grimdark tone of this entire season, and the direction he’s helped steer Star Trek in.

DeanH

I am happy to see that he acknowledged his surprise regarding the reaction to the deaths of Icheb and Hugh. Even Berman IMO messed up when they killed off Picard’s brother’s family in Generations. Now when I see the final scene of the TNG episode Family, it just rings hollow all because we know Picard’s nephew has no future. At least Icheb and Hugh went on to hopefully do great things with the time that they had.

FASAfan

Bingo! The Picard family deaths had no impact whatsoever on that movie.. or even Picard himself outside that scene.

jim

Long Time fan
They subverted expectations. They gave the crew an imagination machine but lacked the imagination to have the doctor who only seconds before used it to fend off attack could have also used it to fix Picard’s brain problem. so instead of saving Data with Soong’s construct body they killed them both. All to make an irreverent point about synthetic life and subvert viewer expectation. Folly.

Interesting. I’ve been meaning to rewatch the Dark Frontier. I guess I’ll watch the Amazon best version.