The ninth episode of the third season of Star Trek: Discovery arrives on Thursday. We have a first look at some new images and in case you missed it, a promo video and a clip too.
“Terra Firma, Part 1”
Star Trek: Discovery season 3, episode 9 “Terra Firma, Part 1” will be available to stream on CBS All Access on Thursday, December 10.
Synopsis:
The U.S.S. Discovery crew journey to a mysterious planet in hopes of finding a cure for Georgiou’s deteriorating condition. Stamets and Adira make a stunning breakthrough with the newly acquired Burn data.
New Images:
Doug Jones as Capt. Saru and Mary Wiseman as Ensign Sylvia Tilly
Doug Jones as Capt. Saru, Mary Wiseman as Ensign Sylvia Tilly, Anthony Rapp as Lt. Commander Paul Stamets and Blu del Barrio as Adira
Blu del Barrio as Adira
Doug Jones as Capt. Saru, Blu del Barrio as Adira, Mary Wiseman as Ensign Sylvia Tilly and Anthony Rapp as Lt. Commander Paul Stamets
Doug Jones as Capt. Saru, Michelle Yeoh as Georgiou and Sonequa Martin-Green as Commander Burnham
Blu del Barrio as Adira
Michelle Yeoh as Georgiou
Wilson Cruz as Dr. Hugh Culber
Michelle Yeoh as Georgiou and Sonequa Martin-Green as Commander Burnham
Episode 309 preview
“Terra Firma, Part 1” promo.
Clip and analysis
A clip from “Terra Firma, Part 1” was shown at the end of the latest episode of The Ready Room. The clip starts at 27:22.
There is a lot to unpack from that clip, so if you haven’t already, check out TrekMovie’s detailed analysis: Preview For The Next Episode Of ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Reveals A Surprising Crossover.
New episodes of Star Trek: Discovery premiere on Thursdays on CBS All Access in the U.S. and on CTV Sci-Fi Channel in Canada, where it’s also available to stream on Crave. Episodes will be available on Fridays internationally on Netflix.
Keep up with all the news and reviews from the new Star Trek Universe on TV at TrekMovie.com.
Sounds to me like she’s going back to the Mirror Universe. If so, the Section 31 series being set in the 32nd Century MU would be very interesting.
Sending Giorgiou back to the MU at this point in the season seems a bit odd in terms of storytelling. More likely they will find something to help stabilize her and allow her to remain in the Prime Universe. Having the Section 31 show in the MU would also involve a big spend on new costumes and ships.
Must be a reason it’s a two-parter. If it were just as easy as sending her back…
I don’t think it will be set in the MU, but every new show so far has new costumes and ships, including this season of Discovery. I don’t think that would be a huge deal. Especially because these shows seem to get huge budgets.
I would expect the Section 31 show to have new costumes regardless. Each series has had its own design ethos and visual identity. This includes — with the exception of Voyager — new uniforms for each series.
She will stay.
You’d think after none hundred years they would have figured out a few more uses for chronometric particles…..
I think nobody has mentioned it yet, but that scene in the ice is not only a reference to ST VI but also to the opening of the pilot where Burnham and Giorgiou are wandering through the desert. Does this close the circle?
One thing which appears stupid for a show in the future: they now have personal transporters wich they obviously don’t/can’t use, but there still exists the necessity to walk long distances?!?! Don’t they have snow-bikes in the future?!? They have soooo many technology but couldn’t came up with some futuristic scooters, hoverboards, bikes, roller blades and so on? Programable matter which turns into something which makes walking faster or obsolete? In all that decades of Star Trek?
One expects that a secure, secret facility will have some barriers or shields to protect it from simple access like a beam-in or snowmobiles.
High-tech programmable matter snowshoes would make the most sense, but the actors would need training to use them correctly. (Canadian Forces in snowshoes can outpace Scandinavian troops using skis.)
One expects that it’s not a great distance from their beam-in or drop off point though.
I’ll admit that, as a Canadian parent of teenagers who have reached the age where they avoid hats, gloves and boots unless it’s more than -10 C, my first thought was “Where are their hats/hoods?”
Perhaps they have heated clothing as VS suggests, but uncovered heads get cold quickly even in weather that’s warm enough to have snow falling.
“Perhaps they have heated clothing as VS suggests, but uncovered heads get cold quickly even in weather that’s warm enough to have snow falling.
The hats were there all the time, you just didn’t see them! It’s – wait for it – CLOAKED PROGRAMMABLE MATTER, giving the term “cap of invisibility” a whole new meaning! ;)
Seriously, whichever century, nothing Gersha Phillips has produced so far has given me any indication she is thinking outside the box, so that’s just more of the expected. Sometimes, such as with carrying on Vulcan/Romulan tradition, that fits, but most of the time in the freaking 32nd century, it doesn’t!
I think this is about what the directors and Californian EPs will approve.
Gersha Phillips lives in Toronto so she’s seen cold and snow. She’s not leaving head coverings out because she didn’t think of it.
(Although Toronto isn’t all that cold by Canadian standards.)
They had Anson Mount in a wonderful jacket on Borath knocking on a door and opening a metal latch without gloves. I can’t believe that was Gersha’s original proposal.
Touching metal with uncovered skin is something Canadian kids learn never to do.
Its hard to tell how much creative micro-managing Kurtzman does,
a la Berman restricting composers to produce nothing but sonic wallpapers, and firing those who refused (Ron Jones). But I will say this: even outside those restrictions McCarthy and Jattaway always struck me as McComposers.
And that’s the crux: most managerial types dont have an ounce of artistic or aesthetic talent in their blood, and Kurtzman or Berman are no different, but where they differed was in the hiring: while Berman certainly hired those McComposers to deliver wallpapers for him he did have a good hand in hiring really gifted production, SFX and costume designers, not to forget writers.
I don’t see Kurtzman is succeeding in that to the same degree, outside of LDS maybe, and that’s to the detriment of all new Trek.
I’ve an artist acquaintance who has worked on season 1 of Picard and several other Trek projects. He said he always got notes from Kurtzman re his work. What he thought of Kurtzman? I didn’t ask…
I like the costumes this season (and in past Disco seasons) and think Phillips is doing some neat stuff with the new uniforms – things like 3D printing, custom textures, making things without stitches/visible seams) – but a lot of it doesn’t show up on screen.
I noticed this BTS stuff too but as you say, since it’s not really visible on screen it seems more geared towards selling a marketing story on social media. As I’ve argued to TG47 before, in a scifi series credible projection of future development is more important than craftsmanship and innovative production methods. Nobody can prove what will eventually be correct anyway, so its all about selling the IDEAS to the audience.
And one thing I can say: I’m not buying leather costumes for the non – military characters that wouldn’t look out of place in Brooklyn 2020,and I’m also not buying uniforms that show less difference to TNG era jumpsuits than the maroon TOS movie uniforms still in use 20 years before TNG season 1.
We’ll be having smart clothing in a decade and these simple uniforms are meant to project 1000 years into the future? That gets an “F” for concept from me, no matter how high quality the execution!
Phillips seems to have bigscreen upscaling in mind in her designs.
I do think that the subtleties she’s included in the new uniforms do get communicated at an unconscious level. It’s also likely that this will keep the uniforms from looking dated down the line.
Some things we have to accept as helpful for storytelling. For example, walking gives characters/actors something to do as they grow together. Surely this “trek” will both reveal to us new insights about Georgiou and give her and Michael the space and time to connect. And walking, travelling together is also deeply symbolic. Years ago when I did the 30 day silent retreat of Ignatius Loyola the multi-day travel by car to the retreat center with the community I was tied to was also an important part of the experience. Flying would have been faster and a less impactful experience. Television, like all art, relies heavily on symbolic gesture to communicate meaning. Lets let it play out and enjoy the journey.
In the year 5555
Your arms hangin’ limp at your sides
Your legs got nothin’ to do
Some machine’s doin’ that for you
Haha! Who the hell wants that?!
I thought those lines were pretty up to date for a 50 year old song, when people wish walking will be obsolete in the future.
Zager and Evans are pleased….
But I hoped someone would add:
Now it’s been a thousand years
Burnham has cried a billion tears
Saying goodbye to Georgiou would warrant tears, however little the two of them want to admit their oddly transferred attachment.
That said, for a season in which the EPs and promotional materials promised that “Michael is so much more joyful,” there seems to be a great deal of overwhelming sadness.
That is very true all the characters in Discovery are so melancholic.The show lacks someone with that Shatner swagger. Even Book has that tragic background and brooding nature. They should have hired someone like Ryan Reynolds or Chris Pratt for that role to bring brightness in the show.
YOU are saying that? You know what they think. Swagger is so toxic 1960s yadda yadda. The last guy with swagger on Discovery turned out to be a fascist genocidal maniac from the MU who delivered the fitting populist speech, lest
their be any doubt about the partisan meaning of this move, and then kindly offed himself into the plasma stream! Guys gotta cry the Burnham tear metaphorically or literally, as Ash Tyler did on more than one occasion, or they aren’t fit for Discovery!
+1 for the rhyme.
But not for the tears.
Georgiou might die in the episode… or stay in the prime universe. Section 31 has her.
Whenever I see ‘Part 1’ in a title, you’re always expecting big things. ;)
I think we’re going to get some pretty big revelations, both in terms of the Burn and whatever happening to Georgiou. I think this is going to set up the Section 31 show, especially after finding out the writers of this episode are the ones also making the Section 31 series.
I still prefer for the show to take place in this period since there is clearly so much to mine now but if they have even bigger ambitions for it, then I’m game for it. She could literally end up in another universe entirely.
Does it need to be one, and only one, universe? Could Georgiou’s series involve missions in more than one timeline?
The Temporal War is over, but Section 31 of the Federation Charter enables use of banned technology to preserve the Federation.
So, I’m wondering if there will be a need for Georgiou to do some universe hopping once she has been “cured.”
Unless, the only cure is as Kovich implies, to go closer to her time and universe of origin.
I’m intrigued.
Yeah I think it’s possible she could be jumping to multiple universes. But I do wonder IF this is what the show is about would she jump to universes like starships jump to planets every week or would it be a more seasonal thing and we see her on a long term mission in one place before moving on?
But yes, I’m getting ahead of myself again lol. I would assume it would be the latter but yes I don’t think it would just be just one if they are going the multiverse angle. My guess is she will be cured to some degree for it to happen.
Again, you have to give Kurtzman some credit here. Even if people are still not loving this season that much, they are pulling out a lot of crazy surprises and twists. And maybe just MAYBE the S31 show may be a more exciting and interesting endeavor than a lot of us doubted it would be. At the very least people actually seem excited about the idea now instead of groaning about it just a few months ago.
“they are pulling out a lot of crazy surprises and twists.”
After previous crazy surprises and twists on Discovery, starting with Tyler and Lorca, people are wary of the Colonel’s offerings!
As now retroactively beloved GWB said: Fool me – you can’t get fooled again ;)
I will at least say so far anyway, none of the surprises this season have been eye rolling cringe inducing like Tyler/Voq, Burnham’s parents being secret Section 31 agents, the Terran Emperor being Georgiou, Burnham being in the Red Angel suit and on and on and on the first two seasons pulled. A lot of people hate Tilly being First Officer but that’s not really a twist (just a really bad decision ;)).
I really hated most of those soap opera/shock plot twists that really made it hard for a lot of us to like the show. It was too busy trying to ‘wow’ us when it was actually doing the complete opposite most of the time. That’s not what Star Trek did nor had to do, but is definitely something very common in serialized TV. In classic Trek, you would get maybe one crazy mind blowing twist somewhere in a season or a finale like Picard becoming a Borg or Bashir actually being an Augment, but not every three episodes like this show did.
So far they have mostly stayed away from things like that this season. The twists has been more tame and organic to this new era. They are NOT about the Discovery crew for a change. But yes the season isn’t over and people are in overdrive predicting the Burn was caused by Discovery, etc. I REALLY want to not be proven wrong (for once) and hope they can just contain themselves and not go down that route yet again.
If the Burn is just some thing that happened between some other group or we don’t learn Book has been a secret Cardassian spy or something then it may be proof they heard the criticisms once again. But if something like that does end up happening, yeah would be very disappointed once again.
I mean the basic structure is really similiar to previous seasons (and Picard): it’s “lets move towards the central mystery of the season at a really glacial pace and do some side tours on the way to postpone the resolution until season’s end”. However organically arising from the characters, this week was such a side tour, and the upcoming MU two parter looks to be another one. And the search for Starfleet earlier this season with side tours to Trill and fringe worlds was again really similiar structurally to the search for Spock in season 2 or search for Soji on Picard. The toys may be new but the play book is not. And I’m with those who think that ship sending distress in the nebula is Calypso Discovery. Another thing that hasn’t changed is that they telegraph their plot twists 5 parsecs before ;)
I hear you I do, but to be fair this is how most serialize shows play out. At least most of the ones I watch, especially genre shows. They all present some kind of big mystery or goal which keeps us on the hook but then zig and zag for about 8-13 episodes with side stories or filling out a character backstory while adding just enough of the main story or giving out minor clues to feel connected throughout the season until the big reveal. Most of them involve going on a journey of some kind or even a series of mini journeys. Have you been watching the Mandalorian this season for pete’s sakes lol. That’s the format to the extreme and yet people are drooling over it. I mean I don’t mind it too much but for a show that’s only EIGHT episodes, yeah….
The Walking Dead is very infamous for this. The title of the show isn’t just about the zombies, it also could describe 2/3rds of the episodes in most of the seasons in every one of the shows because it’s just people walking from place to place filling up plot with side adventures and character filler. Very little going on in much of the actual story. And yet….
So you’re not wrong, but this isn’t exactly exclusive to Discovery or Picard either. Just like most standalone episodes of certain genres have a certain format and beat they follow, most serialized shows have created this as well. There are exceptions, but I’m guessing not as many as you would think.
But I generally have liked how they done it this season. For starters I honestly thought they were going to take their time on answering questions like what happened to Earth, where is the Federation, etc and they answered all of that up front. I thought finding the Federation was going to be a season long search in itself. I literally thought the last episode of the season would be reaching Starfleet headquarters after discovering what happened with the Burn and then maybe next season resolve it or something. So I guess its just how you look at it. That’s why I’m not really bothered, I expected things to be MUCH slower when in fact they actually covered a great deal of ground. We just still don’t know what the Burn is itself yet.
But honestly, outside of that, what other biq questions do you have? Not many right? It’s just mostly about the Burn now, who, what and (probably) why? Other than knowing if Bajor joined the Federation (this is really bothering me lol), I’m generally good. I still had tons at this point in season two…tons!
But I also called it out as well when I feel it’s too much filler too, right? I wasn’t a huge fan of the last episode and since you respond to a lot of my reviews you also know I didn’t love episodes 2 or 6 much either for these same issues. So it’s not perfect, but for me, it’s currently 5-3 in terms of like versus dislike. And I didn’t hate those others just more forgettable IMO. For Discovery, this is a pretty good record lol.
(My god, I can ramble. This was only going to be a paragraph lol. I get very committed ;)).
Tiger2, if I have a complaint about the structure this season, it’s that the dive into the planets of the week hasn’t been quite deep enough.
I seem to always want just that bit more, and I see others commenting along the same lines.
I would have liked to see other people and some housing and agriculture in the bush on Sanctuary that would make me believe that there were millions of inhabitants.
But I felt that with Pavlo in season one and Terralysium in New Eden, and perhaps even Borath, in season two. I’m just getting intrigued about the planet and then the plot point is hit and they’re gone.
The writers and EPs don’t seem to want to invest a lot of time, action or production (sets or vfx) on planets in Discovery. Even Picard did better on this point.
To be fair, Voyager did much less in terms of planetary away missions than I’d hoped, unless one counts all the tunnels and caves.
I agree with that too. We haven’t gotten a lot of deep dives into a lot of the planets. I mentioned Ni’Var somewhere on this thread and the fact we didn’t get a single shot of the planet was disappointing. With Earth it literally was just one shot! Of course it doesn’t mean we won’t come back to those places later, but yeah.
As you said, it probably is a money issue. I mean they are spending a LOT in terms of new FX, sets, ships, costumes, etc so there has to be trade offs somewhere. But we saw Book’s planet not even a week ago and I can think of only that one scene in the forest. It was pretty forgetful.
But if you go with the glass half full direction, it’s just nice Discovery is now just visiting planets almost on a weekly basis practically. It’s still crazy to know we got ONE new planet in all of season one that you mentioned (technically two but I don’t count the one they visited in the MU with Voq and Sarek) and that was it. They did a little better in season two and we got new places like Terralysium and Kaminar while going back to some familiar and iconic planets like Talos IV and Boreth.
But this season, I can’t remember all the names, but we already been to six different planets, two we know, but the others all new. And we’re going to another one this week and a SNOW planet. Those are actually pretty rare on Star Trek. You can probably count those all on one hand. I do agree though, it would be nice if we got actual culture and society backgrounds about them like we would get on the other shows, but admittedly the season still isn’t really about exploration like TOS, TNG or ENT was so it’s understandable. It’s more info or crisis based stuff and not first contact type of missions.
Well, since they’re producing in Toronto, snow planets are an easy location to find, even if miserable to shoot in.
Snow is the new desert for Trek one would guess. Or perhaps the Escarpment (shown for Pavlo) might become as family as the Vasquez rocks.
But with the new AR wall in-studio, who knows what we’ll get. They will be able to integrate and transform background landscapes from anywhere.
More, with ViacomCBS locking-in a cloud deal with Apple (announced today), integrating visual content and vfx will able to be done globally. I really hope this will mean a better integration of more global behind the scenes creatives.
Tiger – and I’m not trying to rain on your unbridled enthusiasm for Discovery, I promise! – but the shows you mention are also mostly poorly written. And yes, even though Mandalorian is scratching an itch for me Discovery hasn’t come close to achieving as of yet, I can accept it’s also a show that’s got some big problems in the writing department. (However, there’s an enthusiasm and energy to it, and a steadfast refusal to reinvent or distance itself from the source material that drags it over the finish line for me every week, more or less)
LOL man, rain away! You know I don’t care if people harshly disagree with me about these shows, just as long as they don’t drag my mother into it while doing it. ;)
And you also know I’m not an apologist for this show. I still have no issues calling out what I think is just bad storytelling or character development which I called out both in just the last episode. I’m certainly enjoying it waaaay more than I did first season, but all said and done, it’s still my second to last least favorite show (sadly Picard is dead last), so it still has its work cut out for me. It’s just nice it’s finally feeling like a classic Trek show, even with flaws.
And I only mentioned two shows, TWD and Mandalorian. And no matter how you feel about them personally they are both clearly very popular. But my point stands, name me ONE heavily serialized sci fi or fantasy show that doesn’t do this? Again I do think there are exceptions like Stanger Things IMO because every episode really pushes the story. But we know most does do a lot of filler with side stories, which is fine. I don’t think there is a problem with that as long as whatever story it tells is worth watching. But even shows fans praised like LOST (the biggest culprit of them all lol) to even BSG did this. But to be fair to them, when you have to feel up 20 episodes a year as opposed to 10-13, it’s not a fair comparison.
Well, I despised LOST for the very reasons you mention but the even bigger problem with the show was they literally HAD no cohesive main arc to jump back to. Everything kept changing. But I think there are examples of top-tier serialized shows that handled the filler episodes far more deftly. I’ll happily throw that hat on BSG for three pretty sublime seasons before they shit the bed with the Final Five, The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Game of Thrones for the first few seasons and I’m currently finishing up (finally!) The Americans which is just so, so fantastic. All shorter seasons and same format as Discovery. But those shows are at the top of the heap for good reasons and I’ll concede most shows don’t come together as well. History has also shown us Trek is an extremely tough show to get right and I don’t just mean “right for the fans”, I mean hard to get right to balance it tone and style-wise.
For me, Discovery’s biggest failure is the inability to learn from what’s come before. They’ve had two rocky seasons to work out the kinks and see what works and what doesn’t. Sure, they’ve flung it into a setting that’s free from canon constraints but the same storytelling deficiencies are still letting it down, the lack of characterisation for the secondary cast just renders the show null of any warmth, as if the writers are terrified giving the rest of the cast some depth would dilute any impact Burnham could make.
Yeah I was never as huge of a fan of LOST as others. It was the later seasons I liked it more because there was less filler and the pace was going faster once it was clear they knew when the show would end. Unfortunately it still ended up sucking by the enb because as you said, there wasn’t really a century core to the show at the beginning and it was clear they were retconning things left and right to make things fit.
And it’s funny but I’m literally rewatching BSG now. In fact I just have the last three episode finale and then I’m done. I decided to rewatch it when I got Peacock and it was one of the shows you could watch for free. I agree it does BETTER for sure but there is definitely a lot of filler stuff in it. Things like the Black market episode, the boxing episode, stuff like that. But it’s not that bad, I agree. For the most part made most of the episodes feel like they mattered, but it was still there. The Final Five story line, my god, I forgot how much of a mess that was.
And as I said I’m really talking about sci fi shows that does this. It’s much more common for these shows for some reason. Now that we’re talking about it, the other shows I been watching in the last year that has done the mystery box journey plots have been Westworld, Colony (it’s so bad I don’t think I will finish it), Lost in Space and the new Walking Dead show.
But then you do have others I like that really does push the story every episode like Project Blue Book, Watchmen and just ended Agents of Shield. That one zigs a little but for most part all the episodes are pretty important, especially the last season.
As far as DIS, yes it still has flaws but you don’t feel its improved at all? I don’t mean its premise or setting, just the basic story telling aspect. As I said to VS, which sort of started this thread, we don’t have a single ridiculous shock twist yet. The episodes actually feel more hopeful, etc.
But I know many here don’t like Burnham much and since she’s part of every important element of the story, its harder for others to like. But look on the bright side, Space Hitler looks like she’s on her way out. Another plus if true. ;)
I don’t think the storytelling itself has improved much, no. The arc is a little less frenetic, thankfully, but it all still feels pretty shapeless and inconsistent. Three seasons of this and one of Picard and halfway into every season I have to really stop and remember what it’s about. I was encouraged by the premise of season 2 and the mysterious signals because I felt like that would give the show a chance to do some exploring in the service of advancing the main arc but then they just flew it all into a mountain halfway in with Burnham’s mom and stupid AI villain. Dreadful. Haha! I think I’ve PTSD from the second half of that season. The frustrating part for me is seeing all the raw materials are there, and in better hands this thing could be tightened up and kicked into shape to be a truly badass show. Hope springs eternal.
Tiger, if that sounds incredible I don’t watch anything else tham Star Trek shows, and those even probably for a silly nostalgia that just never gets fulfilled. Although I’m interested in The Mandalorian somewhat as seeing it described as the Anti-Disxovery in every respect, from top of the hill writers to spectacular production values, all in a learn 30 minutes runtime package that cuts out all the nonsense Discovery writers are piling onto their extremely simplistic plots. So you saying it has the same narrativr structure somewhat confuses me!
I didn’t mind the Tyler and Lorca twists. They seemed pretty classic TOS hidden identities, just drawn out for a serialized format.
The disjointed mess from Project Daedulus through Perpetual Infinity was really bad, but comprehensible given when the showrunners were fired in mid season two.
We’ll have to see what the big mystery reveal is for the Burn in season three. I’m not overly excited. For me, far too much dialogue and emotional angst has been spent on Burnham saying how important it is to find the cause of the Burn as compared to actually engaging us in solving the mystery. (In fact the mystery feels pretty much just a sketch by the numbers at this point.)
I have to say however that by bringing in Cronenberg and putting some substance, deeply rooted in canon, into a transitional storyline for Georgiou, they have got me more intrigued and excited to see where Georgiou is going than what will happen with Burnham.
Didn’t see that coming.
I thought you are least fond of TOS, but you bring it out often in defense of Discovery. Either it is a top heavy antiquated 60s show with outdated values, or it isn’t.
But I like Cronenberg. He brings diversity of a different kind to the show :)
I’m wondering if that hidden location will have a transport chamber of the kind we saw Archer brought forward into in Enterprise at one point.
The writers seem to be leaning hard into the Temporal War canon established by Enterprise.
“The writers seem to be leaning hard into the Temporal War canon established by Enterprise.”
We thought this last season already that Control’s future tentacle probes would somehow be tied to an Enterprise Temporal War faction. It seemed too good a connection to pass over.
Yet as you noted yourself, the one thing the writers are consistent in is not leaning hard (enough) into anything, apart from melodrama that is :)
Since I think Phillipa is the most entertaining character of the show, she is a contradiction of what every thing the the federation isn’t, it would be a shame that they get rid of her. I think section 31 had something to do with her problem and the burn
It’s cool that you like her, but I think she’s the show’s worst character, not only in terms of writing but acting.
Hey, who doesn’t find genocidal dictators entertaining? Guess the dude’s also watching bunker tapes of Fuhrer rage for the lolz!
Fictional genocidal dictators are often entertaining.
I didnt realize Discovery or Trek is meant to be THAT kind of show though!
Really? You’ve never been entertained by Khan or Gul Dukat?
Neither Khan nor Gul Dukat were making friends with our crew protragonists, were they? And in fact DS9 writers have made it clear that for them Dukat was never supposed to be an anti-hero or sympathetic but clearly the bad guy, not someone “fun” or “delicious” as Space Hitler has been described by Discovery’s writers.
Khan and Dukat weren’t meant to be redeemed. I think there is a fuzzy line about the writers’ intentions for Georgiou. She’s clearly not on a Seven of Nine road to becoming a truly empathetic redeemed character, but she’s also meant to be seen as thawing out and the source of a nurture vs nature debate about evil and cruelty. I don’t think these writers have done even close to a good job of mapping out her character arc effectively, which wastes their actress’ talents. But they haven’t expressed an opinion that’s she’s still supposed to be a villain, which puts her in a different situation from Dukat. Perhaps Terra Firma will be a reverse-“Waltz” for her?
I dont care if Space Hitler is “meant” to be redeemed by the writers, because I know she is not capable to be redeemed by virtue of having committed multiple genocides (whether by nature or nurture is irrelevant to that question). If the writers think there is redemption for that, their mental and moral foundation has a much higger problem than just subpar writing skills ;)
Whatever.
Come on. You ARE arguing devil’s advocate if you are suggesting there is a path of redemption for those who commit the Holocaust? It’s even illegal to publicly mention such idea in some countries!
Yes, dear, you got me, I’m an actual f**king Nazi apologist because I give some two-bit TV writers a little slack for having fun writing an anti-hero character with an evil past.
Garak, Kira and Seven of Nine are all guilty of multiple murders, with the latter two having a reputation-saving asterisk over their pasts to absolve them, but all could easily be described as fun and delicious characters to watch and write for. I recall plenty of disappointment from fandom when Ensign Suder/Brad Douriff was killed off after committing cold blooded murder and very little disgust at his having found redemption. No one would have batted an eyelash if “good” Weyoun 7 had become a regular, or Dukat remained a complicated rebel fighting the good fight against the Klingons.
Star Trek also has zero history of imprisoning Mirror Universe characters for having done what was legal in their own universe. Had Georgiou started murdering and eating Kelpians left and right in her new home, she’d be locked up. Most of the crew is wary of her to say the least and everyone was forced into dealing with her. Burnham is caring about her because she saved her and is trying to see something of her old mentor she helped get killed in there. And yeah, the writers enjoy writing for her because she’s not boring and they snagged an acting megastar to play her. All I will admit to you is that her character arc has been sloppy and the cumbersome sarcastic lines they give Michelle Yeoh are not always a great fit for her because of how they are meant to play to a Western audience. But I am not going to lament the morality of Star Trek going down the tubes for having this character exist and roam freely under extenuating circumstances, especially as her shell is clearly starting to crack and she is adapting to her new surroundings. It’s certainly not an excuse to dip into casting aspersions against real people’s moral compasses, so I’ll kindly ask you to stop doing that when you engage in this debate, it crosses the line.
The entire crew considered Khan to be sympathetic. Kirk even said “We can be against him and admire him all at the same time.” And Marla even decided to go off to Ceti Alpha V with him. Dukat also spent a couple of seasons making friends with Kira and Sisko before he joined the Dominion. Not to mention Garak, who was a cold blooded torturer, and went on to be best friends with Bashir and an ally of the DS9 crew.
Well I see a difference between how the crew treated Dukat or Khan and how Discovery treats Space Hitler. And if you want to compare GARAK with her, well, let’s agree to disagree.
Michelle Yeoh is a critically acclaimed, BAFTA-nominated actress whom a long long list of A-list directors have clamored to work with over the last two decades for a wide variety of roles, not just action ones. We are lucky to have had her gracing a Star Trek TV show for as long as she has.
Her character arc has been a mess and her dialogue is often cumbersome and a poor fit for an actor for whom English is a second language, that’s not helping. But as much as you are entitled to your opinion of her acting, I vehemently disagree with it. She’s one of the finest actors on the show.
I think much of the evidence that leads some to conclude that Yeow’s acting isn’t great, is indeed tied to language. I agree that she isn’t brilliantly written at times; ‘cumbersome’ describes this well. But her grasp of English is certainly good enough, even if it genuinely is her second language. The problem comes with her intonation. Stress on words in a sentence, and even syllables in a word, convey meaning in most English-speaking cultures. In Malaysia, as in much of south-east Asia, where a multiple languages are commonly spoken by many, intonation works differently when English is spoken. It doesn’t impact the clarity of each word but often sends many Canadians, Americans, Brits and Aussies, for example, into distraction about the precise meaning or intention . This, I believe, is the effect Yeoh’s delivery has on some opinions about her acting ability.
Completely agreed. She talks like my family, who are also Chinese-Malaysian. It’s just a different sort of normal. And her English is indeed excellent, it’s just intonation is a barrier when you have writers trying to make you spout technobabble and biting sarcasm.
And by the same token, she got some flak from Chinese audiences when she was largely phonetically speaking the stylized Mandarin Ang Lee had the cast do for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. She’s a native Cantonese-speaker, so it sounded odd to a number of people. But to so many Western audiences and critics who couldn’t pick up on that, all they saw was the performance, hence she got a BAFTA nod and Oscar buzz.
Good points Goulash and Ian.
I really feel that the show needs to lean in more firmly into offering a diversity of accents in English.
TOS had poor Russian and Scots accents, and TNG had Patrick Stewart and Marina Sirtis with non standard accents, but Discovery seems to push all the actors towards American accents. (David Adjala is on the record as saying an American accent is very difficult for him.)
Sometimes, I wonder if the directors on Di are at times pushing Yeoh to re-record her lines to the point they get more stilted.
Her own speech patterns are more fluid, even if they have a different rhythm. I’ve really noticed in the last two episodes, when she’s had longer stretches of dialogue, that it seems less stiff and more mischievous.
Gulasahi not Goulash drat it.
Where is the banging one’s head on the desk emoji when needed? Predictive spelling is vile.
Thats what the edit button is for ;)
I know why I quit Twitter. One of two reasons anyways!
Some Fans don’t think about Michelle, the person, they simply don’t like the character. Also, some have a blur line between the Phillipa and Michelle.
Michelle is amazing. Totally awesome she is part of Star Trek. Have seen her previous work and I agree, the writers/producers haven’t been able to make her shine the way she should. Hope soon this is something to leave behind.
Section 31 looks promising. I think this show will be a big hit. She is very popular in other countries where Star Trek could increase their viewership and popularity.
Can’t wait to watch the new shows!
Explain to me in a world with programable matter and 900 years advancement they’re still wearing old uniforms?
Right!? The Discovery crew is supposed to be fully integrated into 32nd century Starfleet. So why haven’t they been given the current uniforms? There doesn’t seem to be a plot-driven reason for it. It’s a shame, too, because I really like the the look of what Starfleet is wearing in this time.
I loathe the new Delta shield badge. It is just an undefined oval on their chests. It has so little contrast with the Starfleet symbol and the background of the oval that its just a mess. Taps into zero nostalgia and too blobish to make any new statement. The worst design element of perhaps any series/movie. Maybe after Discovery from the past saves the day Starfleet can honour them by making the insignia from Disco the new Starfleet symbol. I LOVE Disco, but this season has felt like a big underwhelming letdown and showcased some of the worst acting with Book’s soap opera brother and the cliched Orion villain with long nails (so you know she’s bad). These points, combined with that illogical Vulcan trial held in the drab fricken cafeteria (whatever happened to world building?) has me bummed that people are spending time and money with the keys to Trek and turning out subpar blather. I’m not a Disco hater and have defended the show from the attacks of racist and sexist fanboys whose main complaints stem from the fact that it’s a woman of color in the spotlight. But this season has me wondering about this creative team.
I could somewhat sympathize with your novel-sized rant on the badge even while not sharing it until that last sentence.
YOUR critique is valid but THEIRS is illegitimate because you insinuate sinister ulterior motives, instead of maybe arriving at the conclusion that Discovery is a faulty product a few seasons earlier than you?
That’s classic othering, dude. Even the best of us are not above it! ;)
Man, I’m actually very surprised you are so disappointed with this season. I thought you would be one of it’s biggest fans but you seem really let down by their choices.
For me, it’s the exact opposite for some reason. I’m not in love with EVERYTHING (making Tilly first officer, the villains so far kind of suck, some of the Burnham issues and they are seriously stretching the Burn mystery among other things) but I have liked a lot of the new elements. Love the new Federation/Starfleet HQ. Most of the new characters from Book to Adira and Admiral Vance has been great. And I just love all the changed dynamics of the galaxy in general. It’s really fun to see all our favorite and familiar species all in different situations than we last saw them in the 24th century. For someone like me who has been BEGGING for something different for a long time now, I can’t complain about that. They shook up the Alpha Quadrant in a way we haven’t seen since DS9 and just like that show looks to be on a long term level. It’s just a lot of fun for me.
That said I can’t disagree with all your points either. I loved the Unification episode for the most part, but yeah why was it all on the ship??? It seemed so odd. I think a lot of people would’ve loved to have seen what Ni’Var looks like today, even if you just got a few shots of it. My guess is that was mainly done for money reasons of course but THAT should’ve been the episode you save your budget for. Does anyone truly care they saw Book’s planet the next episode? And not in love with the look of the badges either. I wish they weren’t so round. The look more Bajoran than Starfleet now.
But overall it’s easily my favorite season so far….but it’s not over yet. ;)
LOL Tiger2, I thing that we’re going to find out that Bajorans have had a deep and broad cultural influence.
Take a look at the uniforms (ignoring the colour).
Even the Orions are using Bajoran units of measure.
I don’t know if you watch the Trekyards show on Youtube but they made a video right before episode 5 of the crew arriving at Starfleet that they predicted the new Federation headquarters would be based on Bajor; just due to the look of the uniforms and badges we had seen. Didn’t turn out true obviously but they were that convinced how much influence the Bajorans now must’ve had in the Federation by this era.
That can still be true as well, season is not over yet.
No I didn’t see that edition of Rewards, but it’s good to know that others are picking up on the same subtle but pervasive Bajoran influence as I am.
Rewards?
Probably a case of aggressive auto correct turning “Trekyards” into “Rewards”
You know I corrected that 3 times. LOL
I guess that I should have taken a last look after hitting post comment to see if the autocorrect snuck in one last time.
OK, understand now. I did scratch my head trying to figure it out. Yeah, I have the same issue with my phone. It’s like you’re fighting with it lol.
Chuck Yeager r i p
my guess is… they are going to Guardian of Forever.
Not a bad theory, and it’s making the circuit of the boards, but it seems odd that the Guardian would be in an enclosed environment on in a snowy region.