Colm Meaney Explains What It Would Take For Him To Appear In ‘Star Trek: Picard’

Last week we reported on comments from Colm Meaney expressing that he was skeptical about the idea of a return to his character of Miles O’Brien. However, in a new interview the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine star sounds a bit more open to the idea, under certain conditions.

Meaney would do Picard if…

While Colm Meaney has been doing the rounds promoting his latest film Pixie,  he’s been getting questions about whether he would reprise his role of Chief Miles O’Brien. He told CBR last week he felt like “seven years in space was long enough,” referring to his seven seasons on Deep Space Nine, adding “you’re always a bit loathe to go back.” He told Collider that he has nostalgia for the character and the idea of returning but was “generally reluctant” at the idea.

But in both interviews, he didn’t entirely rule it out. Now in a new interview with Looper, the actor lays out what it would take for him to return:

“If there’s a good and valid reason for him to pop up, and it makes dramatic sense and all that, yeah.”

Meaney has spent the decades after his time in space working consistently, playing many complicated characters in film and television, including starring in the AMC series Hell on Wheels. During his post-Trek career, Meaney has won two and been nominated for three Irish Film and Television Awards. It sounds like an interesting storyline for O’Brien might be enough to get him to get over his previously stated skepticism.

Anson Mount and Colm Meaney in Hell on Wheels (AMC)

In addition to a good script, he also told Looper it would be an opportunity to catch up with an old friend:

“If there was an opportunity for O’Brien to show up, sure. I’d be happy. I’m very fond of Patrick. It would be lovely to see him, lovely to work with him again.”

In addition to his seven years on Deep Space Nine, Meaney appeared as a guest star in 52 episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation, starting with the pilot. He last appeared together with Sir Patrick Stewart when he was brought back for the TNG finale “All Good Things.”

Colm Meaney in “All Good Things”

In all of these interviews, Meaney said he isn’t aware of any ongoing discussions to bring back O’Brien, so this is a theoretical discussion for now. Production on the Picard‘s second season began last month, so if there was interest in Meany he would likely know by now. And there are already indications that season two will bring a number of familiar faces with Whoopi Goldberg confirmed to be reprising her role as Guinan, along with indications that LeVar Burton (Geordi), John de Lancie (Q), Gates McFadden (Dr. Crusher), and Brent Spiner (Dr. Altan Soong) could also appear. But there’s always season three!

Meaney’s latest project is the crime comedy Pixie, in which he stars alongside Olivia Cooke, Ben Hardy, Daryl McCormack, and Alec Baldwin.


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We need ONE freaking DS9 character to show up on Picard. I will be happy to see one on LDS too or even Prodigy if the show takes place around that time. I don’t even care who it is, but definitely would love to see the chief again. He’s the most important Starfleet officer in history, it’s time they showed us why!

This show doesn’t have a lot to do with Starfleet, so I think a non-Starfleet character from DS9 is most likely to show up. Quark or Garak, most likely. Since they’ve already name-dropped Quark, he’s my bet for first DS9 character to pop up.

That’s a great point although they confirmed Starfleet will be part of the show in season 2. The story may not be based around Starfleet, but it sounds like they will be involved in it at least. So anyone still in Starfleet would have no issues of returning (and I won’t lie, it would be nice to see a previous character actually still in Starfleet ;)).

But that still wouldn’t rule out Quark either!

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

Starfleet was an important part of season 1. Does anyone remember Picard’s rant from the series premiere??!!

Yes but it had nothing to do with the actual storyline except the scene in the last episode with Riker saving the day. That’s what I’m talking about chief. ;)

I think my favorite idea for Season 2 is that the story revolves around JLP on a journey of self discovery, examining his new existence, and trying to figure out just what it means to be human. Is he the same man Captained the Enterprise? Or some new being with his memories? This leads him to seek the counsel of old friends like Guinan, Beverly Crusher, etc.

And if they wanted a non-TNG Trek cameo, Seven could put him in touch with The Doctor, who has had his own experiences examining the nature of self and identity. As for the dramatic tension? Maybe a group within the Federation refuses to see him as JLP, but as the Golem, wishing to exploit his technology, and in the end the moral statement made by this story is that we are who we identify as. A very topical ethical and human rights issue in the 21st Century.

A whole season of that sounds exceptionally boring, though. There needs to be something more than just Picard literally soul-searching. I think word getting out that Picard is a Synth and the Federation facing a new world of potential immortality would be more interesting.

If you find thoughtful character drama boring you can go and watch Discovery, it may be more your speed. A story of allies and enemies fighting for over immortality tech is just more of the same grand scope we don’t need, if you ask me.

Worf?

I would always enjoy seeing Colm Meaney back in Star Trek, but his presence in Picard would not make a lot of sense from the perspective of what has been shown of the characters’ history together. Picard and O’Brien had little connection on TNG, other than obviously being on the same ship. They had some nice scenes together in the DS9 pilot when Picard said goodbye to him, but did they ever have any substantial interaction on TNG?

Last edited 1 month ago by Just Another Salt Vampire

No offense but based on this logic, Seven shouldn’t be on the show either.

Maybe just MAYBE it’s been 20 years later and we have no idea what the characters been up to to since? Maybe they actually could just say O’Brien and Picard ended up becoming friends on Earth after Picard retired OR he’s meeting him again for the first time since joining DS9. Or maybe O’Brien is good friends with Rios? Maybe he taught a class at the academy and Dr. Jurati was a student of his? Maybe he got a serious drug habit and he and Raffi met at rehab? ;)

Or here is another idea, they make a story where his character is just vital to the story just like they did with the characters on the show now, which IIRC, he only knew Raffi at the beginning of the show. So it wouldn’t matter either way, right?

So its really not hard to justify anyone being there because you have a twenty year gap to literally make up anything you want with any of the characters. That’s why going forward is always easier, because we have no idea what is suppose have happened until someone writes it and tells us what happened.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

The Seven appearance made a lot of sense because both she and Picard were connected by their Borg experience. I think that is why the writers thought to include her to begin with.

You make a good point though. Probably any character could be made to fit into Picard whether they had a relationship to Jean-Luc or not, just as reasons were found to bring Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Scotty into TNG.

Last edited 1 month ago by Just Another Salt Vampire

Thank you! I appreciate it! :)

And I wasn’t trying to get on your case (and apologies if it came off that way), but I heard these arguments before in the past (mostly before the show started) and they don’t make a lot of sense. I mean, sure you’re not wrong that O’Brien or Picard never had a relationship passed just serving on the same ship together, but how much of a relationship did he have with Rios, Soji or Dr. Jurati before that show started? Zero. And now he’s hopping through the galaxy with them like they are some extended family whose been together for years although in reality he’s known them for exactly how long? A week? Maybe two? Is Rios still charging him to planet hop?

I mean why are they even still together? Their mission ended after the season finale. None of them are Starfleet officers, so what is the purpose he’s hanging out with mostly strangers on a cargo ship? We know why, because the producers want to keep the show going. But in reality, Picard probably wouldn’t spend more than he needed to with most of them and just moved on after they stopped the angry androids from destroying the galaxy (and handing Agnes over to the authorities for murder, but I guess that was the old Picard ;)).

So yeah, whoever shows up, old or new, they will just find a way to make them fit in the story itself just like this show literally did with the others.

That said, I wouldn’t mind seeing O’Brien again one day, but no I’m not losing sleep over it. ;)
.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

Yes, they do have the Borg in common, but it made no sense to me when Picard recognized Seven when she appeared on his ship. When had they met previously?

Onscreen, never, but it makes sense that they would have met once VOY returned home; not many people recover from assimilation.

Maybe after Voyager returned to Earth? There was a (almost) 20-year window which we only saw small glimpses of in flashbacks on Picard. They had plenty of opportunities to meet.

I don’t think they suggested they ever met, simply that he knew who she was. And yeah, even if they did, it’s a 20 year gap, they could’ve just said they met once at so and so. None of this is that hard when so much time has past.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

Well I never had an issue with that. For one thing, Seven is probably the most famous ex-Borg ever, so people would just know about her story once she came back from the Delta quadrant on a ship that has been missing for 7 years.

I don’t think they suggested they met, Picard simply heard of her. Another member of this board constantly brought this up as well and I just don’t see how any of this is an issue since Seven is just probably very famous figure people known about in Starfleet at the time. Picard was still apart of Starfleet when Voyager arrived home. Maybe just maybe he caught one of the multiple news items about her that I imagine was endlessly talked about or he was even debriefed about her ordeal since Enterprise had the most dealings with the Borg (in the alpha quadrant) and he of course was also assimilated.

And of course what I find odd is some people are shocked that Picard knows her, but no one seems surprised that Seven knows who Picard is lol. Because everyone seems to assume Picard is now an iconic figure in the Federation even if he left Starfleet over a decade ago now. Well maybe it’s the same for Seven and she’s become iconic, just in a different way.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

Great point! And this is reinforced by O’Brien, much as we love him, being a background character for the most part.

And I really have seen enough of O’Brian’s kind of “generally boring, which some in-your-face melodrama” family life travails for one fan’s lifetime…lol

Last edited 1 month ago by Methusalah

There’s an obvious link between Picard and O’Brien in that both had close ties to Worf (Picard more than O’Brien but not by much) and there were notable episodes of TNG where Picard interacted with O’Brien (e.g. TNG episode “The Wounded”).

In terms of how O’Brien would fit into Picard, it could be any aspect of the show, from Rios wanting an engineer in the crew and Picard recommending him, to a Dax tie-in, with the Trill as a plotline, or a Bajor-based storyline (it would be great to see Ro Laren back) – it could even be centred around Q in some way, especially if Guinan is also going to be reappearing…

Lots of ways to include him organically.

Perhaps Picard is dealing his new Golem form, and he seeks out his old friend Miles O’Brien, because he just so happens to now be the Director of the Daystrom Institute.

If Picard needed help with his golem body it would make more sense for him to seek out Geordi.
Also, O’Brien seemed more like a workman-engineer type, not like someone who would end up leading a research institute.
Could they find a way to include O’Brien if they really wanted to? Sure. But there are probably a bunch of other characters whose inclusion in Picard would make much more sense.

I think you need to stop overthinking and nitpicking every comment someone makes. My comment was a spitball off the top of my head, as a point that there are any number of ways you could organically tie a character like O’Brien into the series.

But to respond to your nitpick, remember that O’Brien, last we saw him, was teaching at the Academy. No reason he couldn’t be an administrator at a scientific institution.

I don’t expect they will however, and I don’t even expect him to show up. If anyone from DS9 shows up, Bashir seems most likely if you ask me.

And I acknowledged that they could find a way to include O’Brien if they wanted to. I’m not really passionate either way: If they want to include O’Brien into Picard I have no problem with that. At the same time, I’m not asking for it.

Good grief . Please no more Q adventures!!
They should hire Harlan Ellison if he’d agree to it.

Harlan Ellison died 3 years ago. ;)

You beat me to that.

;)

Given Ellison’s legendary feuds with the Trek powers-that-be, he may be more likely to write for Trek now than he was 3 years ago…

LOL!

I don’t think the Q thing is going to hold up with today’s audiences. Just a bad fan service idea in my opinion.

That ship has sailed, and it’s going to take CGI or a lot of unconvincing make-up for him to look the part as well.

Last edited 1 month ago by Methusalah

Q is basically Loki. He will hold up just fine. No need to make him look young, as he aged in the TNG,VDS9, and VOY series.

A great point. Given that Loki was MCU fan favorite, I guess Picard staff sees him as a great opportunity.

They really don’t need to de-age him. He’s a god that can take any form. He can just crack some sarcastic joke about why he decided to look older. “I rather liked the look of ALL that grey hair on you Picard. It adds a certain flare for me … an ‘air of distinction!’ as your dear departed Data might say.” At any rate, if he looks older that’s not such a big deal.

Last edited 1 month ago by Locutus

They can de-age him for the first scene. And “age” again after his first brawl with Picard. :P

I always envisioned a scene, if he were to show up, where Q appears CGI de-aged, and says to JLP, “well you haven’t aged well”, then snaps his fingers and ages himself to match.

Viola, perfectly explains why current-age DeLancie could play Q. It fits his character too, as he usually dresses to “fit in”– changing Starfleet uni’s on each show.

No no no Q!!!!

If they really want to undo the Picard Golem thing though, Q would be the way to do it. Show Picard suffering in his new form, have some “deep thoughts” conversation about what it means to be human with Q, maybe even grovel to have his humanity back, and SNAP of the finger Q makes Picard a “real boy” again.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t really want to see that plot play out personally, but if they are bringing back Q it seems like the most sensible tie-in to the existing storyline to me.

I don’t understand this hate for the Picard Golem thing. To me, this is Star Trek at its core. A whole new future has opened up where people can live forever by transferring themselves into a synthetic body? There are some damned good storytelling possibilities in there. It would be very interesting if we see a Synth Human on Discovery too, and we learn that Synths became common in the centuries after Picard and Juliana Tainer. How does society adapt if people aren’t dying anymore? What do people do with their lives when face with the option of living hundreds of years? Could be interesting stuff.

No it is a terrible idea. Especially since the Federation is dead set against genetic engineering, why would they accept people upgrading themselves to artificial bodies? It makes no sense. Especially since it would mean the end of Humanity.

Last edited 1 month ago by tezna

Like policies don’t change over hundreds of years?

The Federation had no problems with Geordi’s visor (and later his artificial eye implants). I also seem to remember that Nog received a new leg. These artificial body parts are just an extension of the prostheses we already have today.

Not to mention that we already saw this very thing happen in “The Schizoid Man.” Really nothing new.

“They should hire Harlan Ellison if he’d agree to it.”

You’re… kidding, right?

This would be a good opportunity for Harlan Ellison and Gene Roddenberry to co-write a script together so they can bury the hatchet and all.

Ah yes, just don’t off him unceremoniously to placate the “concerned” fans. >_>

My guess… cash.

In all seriousness, though, at what point do we drop the pretenses that Picard isn’t a reunion show, when that’s exactly what it’s shaping up to be?

It’ unfortunate, but you are right.

I love the new crew, and can frankly do without them adding multiple fan service characters added for each season. I think it was OK in Season 1, but now it sounds like the fan service flood gates are opening wide for season 2.

And I feel bad for the actors representing Picard’s crew — this it not really fair to them.

And this is not how you expand your audience. Look at Lower Decks — only hardcore Berman era fans watch it, because for a lot of the material you need to know all that canon to get the references and many of the jokes.

Last edited 1 month ago by Methusalah

Of course! I said this would happen once the show was announced. It was always to find a way to bring in TNG/VOY/DS9 characters just like Discovery was always going to bring in TOS characters and SNW will do the same thing.

Now I wasn’t sure they were going to do it so soon because of how coy they were about bringing in famaliar characters first season. But once we knew people like Seven, Riker, Huge, etc in first season showed up, all bets were off.

Remember these were the same people who said we wouldn’t even see Spock on Discovery. Now that guy has his show again lol.

Now anyone can show up. I don’t think we’ll ever see O’Brien on Picard, but literally nothing stops him from showing up no more than Uhura, Scotty, Sulu, etc on SNW.

These guys clearly want to bring these characters on and why now 3 of the 5 shows all star famaliar characters. ;) One thing you can say about the Berman era, they did a good job of having all the crews feel unique to their own shows. That is no longer the case.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

I honestly don’t mind PIC being something of a coda for the TNG crew, I just wish they hadn’t tried to shove four different storylines and the kitchen sink into the first season.

Have him appear on strange new worlds. He can build a railroad with Pike.

I’d have it where robo-Picard, realizing that he is the completion of the Borg’s plan to replace organics completely, seeks out help from Miles O’Brien. O’Brien’s resolution of the situation makes him the most important man in the Federation, per lower decks.
This then explains why all Picard seems ignored by Discovery Season 3.
I don’t understand why Picard did not feed into Discovery Season 3, I was kind of thinking that was going to be the whole point. Season 3 I thought would have holographic crews everywhere, living starships, etc. Instead what the heck, they just forget that technology exists now? Picard is too selfish to share immortality with others?
What happens to the thousands of generic starships, they all got destroyed in the Burn??

What?

Robo-Picard is the singularity (look up the philosophical concept).
New robo-Picard he has imagination like any organic. Now you can have it where you live forever, holograms really can replace organics. You can have living starships. All humanity can upload itself.
Now why isn’t any of that in Discovery?
I’d urge the writers to use that for a penultimate scifi story with echoes of Blade Runner.
It turns out Picard was drawn to developing AI at all cost because of some shadow Locutus programming imbedded (also explaining why he wanted emotions on robots building the evacuation fleet (why would you want slaves?), ditches his friends and kept working on AI even after Mars which condemned billions of Romulans to death. The Borg unimind blames its defeat on the flawed organic portions, wants to see those completely replaced but how do you do that given all their advanced technology is due to assimilation of organics – organics as with TMP, etc have the imagination.
New Picard figures out he is being hunted by the Borg. Why?
Put the pieces together – .the Borg don’t want to assimilate life, they want to replace life.
It wasn’t Picard’s fault though (like Wolf 359), it was a shadow program.
But robo-Picard feels shame, guilt. Can he work through it?
So does he turn himself into the Borg, it would end assimilation?
Does he share his technology with others that they too may live forever?
Is he the next step in our evolution?
I’d have it where upon figuring out the Borg are going to use him to basically take over the universe he askes Miles O’Brien for help.
Miles O’Brien saves the day, assume they end up destroying the technology or doing something to make it useless to all (which is why it doesn’t have any impact on Discovery).
Also in Lower Deck they say Miles O’Brien is the most important person in Starfleet, certainly the officer who resolves the question of the Singularity would be among the most important.

Also note that this builds on First Contact, the DVD commentary notes that Picard was told where to have the fleet fire as a ruse, the Borg were trying to get Data. Why Data – you can have it where it was because he was the first AI to have emotions, but he was still too robotic. Enter robo-Picard.

Someone asked me how to redeem TNG from snoozefest to epic sci fi that blows minds, this is how in my humble opinion. Not bringing everyone back for a cameo on the farm.

Last edited 1 month ago by Cmd.Bremmon

OK then. As Spock would say, fascinating.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

Before rejecting the idea just consider what the majority would say the Best episode of TNG was – The Best of Both Worlds. Picard has set it up where you can do the Best of Both Worlds on steroids (but with the mind blowing ramifications of Blade Runner) to the power of questioning the human condition and our place in the universe.

Last edited 1 month ago by Cmd.Bremmon

Well it’s definitely on drugs! ;D

I’m not trying to insult your story, but it is a bit convoluted. I’m surprised Kirk doesn’t appear from the dead as a half Borg and a face off against Locutus.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

Hey, I’m not the one that created Robo-Picard for no apparent reason, but I think you take it and run with it.
Makes way more sense then “hey, here is artificial intelligence that has imagination”, no biggie, we are going to totally ignore this.
Anyone feel for V’ger?!? LOL Turned out it could have just upgraded itself.

We’re 10%0 agreed on this! Robo-Picard is one of the dumbest ideas from this show and one of the reasons it’s sadly my least favorite Trek show at the moment. I’m not defending it at all.

But you can still come up with a story that doesn’t read like complete fan fiction from a high schooler. I’m just being honest.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

I know, I know. It’s not as powerful or serious as “Badgey”, that brilliant Voyager episode where Janeway became a lizard going Warp 10 or the 32nd century where magic mushrooms are the key to jumping across the universe when some baby makes all the dilithium explode.
It’s more like that horrid episode no one likes where Picard was assimilated by the Borg and wiped out the Starfleet at Wolf 359 and builds on that one movie where Picard knew exactly where to target the Borg cube, and the Queen captured Data (maybe she was just in love??)..
Side note – Maybe Data purposely did not want to live because he was afraid he would end up the singularity, did not tell Picard because didn’t want him to feel guilty or worry. Seems better than Data is suicidal and Picard was just a jerk to his friends.

Last edited 1 month ago by Cmd.Bremmon

Send it to CBS…you never know!

And for the record, I never liked Badgey either. It’s the only LDS episode I didn’t like at all actually and said so. Also, people turning into lizards when you hit warp 10, yeah real reeeeeeaaaal dumb! See, we actually agree on things! :)

Never had an issue with Discovery and the spore drive though. It’s the only thing that I thought that made the show half-way interesting in season one and I H-A-T-E season one. But you know that!

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

There’s the difference between episodic and serialized TV. You can turn people into lizards one week or keep Spock’s Brain in a jar. You can be haunted by your Grandma’s purple spirit or become pregnant by putting your hand into an holographic sandbox. Those ideas are super dumb but they don’t hurt the overall show because they’re standalone episodes.

But when a dumb idea becomes the solution to a season- or series-spanning story arc you are in big trouble…

I don’t have any issues with Golem-Picard but if people don’t like it, the writers have written themselves into a corner they can never leave. That’s why I’m not a fan of contemporary arc-based serialized TV. Unexpected turns or conclusions can ruin the entire show, not just an episode…

I certainly agree with this too and why people seem so hard on the newer shows, because you spend the entire season watching basically one story line play out and if it ends really badly or just plain stupid (which has happened on both shows IMO), then yeah, it’s just going to be harder to separate your feelings on the show on the whole based on what happens in that story line. That is definitely the difference between episodic shows and certainly like Star Trek where you forget last weeks sucky episode if this weeks is really good or at least decent and move on quickly.

The issue with DIS and PIC is because they are so serialized they are almost forced to double down on the bad stuff because it is now just part of the overall arc. They can certainly find ways to move on from it, but the reality is something like the Red Angel story line will always be an important element of the show and if you thought it was really bad (and I thought it was mostly bad ;)), then it’s not exactly easy to just forget it and move on.

So we agree completely. But you still had to sit through the really bad episodes on the old shows too and all those episodes are still considered canon so while we like to forget them, they are all still there for people to watch.

Or not watch. ;)

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

And yet we saw the same concept in “Schizoid Man,” and “Nth Degree,” and to a lesser extent, one of the (forgettable) TOS episodes with Mudd, and “The Ultimate Computer.” Probably others I’ve forgotten, too.

Robo-Picard is one of the dumbest ideas from this show

I’m not saying the CONCEPT is bad, I’m saying how they handled it on Picard himself was.

The concept is fine, but there were actual reasons on why they were used on those episodes you mentioned. On Picard, it was not only not necessary, they basically decided to literally place him in the exact same body as before….just not the same one lol. It just feel like they did it just to say they did it. But why did they NEED to do it? They didn’t. And his disease, which of course they could’ve avoided, but OK, they made part of the story line, was a brain issue, not a body one. So why did they need to replace his entire body exactly? You want to give him a synth brain, that would’ve been more appropriate IMO.

But they wanted to ‘kill’ the character off and pat themselves on the back for it when all they did was just transfer him to a new body ten minutes later. It just felt waaaaay too convenient. Maybe people wouldn’t feel so jipped about it if Picard dying was a crucial part of the story line and not just a side plot to everything else. If that was a big part of the show and Picard was running out of time to save himself and that became the solution.

Here it was just the laziest way possible. Wow Picard is suddenly dying. Well fortunately for him, he just managed to find a hidden planet full of illegal androids on it and luckily enough they give him the one and only synth body made for someone else that was just sitting there for some reason (what exactly was Soong waiting for to just transfer himself in it?) but luckily Picard died just in the nick of time. Sigh

Honestly up until the last few episodes, I was really enjoying the show, but how it ended just really left a bad taste in my mouth. So bad, the finale was the only episode I never bothered to rewatch a second time. So much promise and ended so ridiculously bad.

BUT, you know I try to look at everything with a glass half full mentality (I try soooo hard lol) and they said it will be explored in season 2. So if they really keep to that and we get a story line that sees Picard really dealing with being in a new body and it’s not just used and completely forgotten like when Kirk was given Khan’s magic blood, then OK, maybe it will give us some interesting ideas out of it.

But I really wished they did it on anyone but Picard. Now it will be arguments for the next decade if that’s the real Picard or not?

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

Wow Picard is suddenly dying

He wasn’t “suddenly dying”, he was dying. That’s why the Stargazer doctor wouldn’t sign-off on him returning to Starfleet (until Picard begged and said he knew the consequences). The stress of going back to space was too much for his Irimati Syndrome or whatever.

And his disease, which of course they could’ve avoided, but OK, they made part of the story line, was a brain issue, not a body one. So why did they need to replace his entire body exactly? You want to give him a synth brain, that would’ve been more appropriate IMO.

How could it have been avoided? Beverly said there was no cure in All Good Things…

And a brain transplant, really? Are you really going to pretend you would not be all over Picard if they’d done a brain transplant just as much as you are now complaining about him getting a new synth body (which actually we’d already seen happen in TNG’s Schizoid Man and Inheritance?)

Last edited 1 month ago by Thorny

“He wasn’t “suddenly dying”, he was dying. That’s why the Stargazer doctor wouldn’t sign-off on him returning to Starfleet (until Picard begged and said he knew the consequences). The stress of going back to space was too much for his Irimati Syndrome or whatever.”

I mean he literally died when they were already on the planet where the synth body was conveniently laying around. I should’ve said ‘suddenly died’ to make my point clearer. It just felt really really lazy to me.

“How could it have been avoided? Beverly said there was no cure in All Good Things…
And a brain transplant, really? Are you really going to pretend you would not be all over Picard if they’d done a brain transplant just as much as you are now complaining about him getting a new synth body (which actually we’d already seen happen in TNG’s Schizoid Man and Inheritance?)”

A. Beverly said it was possible he could be infected with the disease later on, it wasn’t a foregone conclusion. So yes they could’ve avoided it if they wanted to. But I’m not bothered that they didn’t avoid it. I was fine with that. But…

B. They didn’t have to conclude it that way. Now if you are OK with it, fine, I just really really hated it personally. And I would’ve been fine with a brain transplant because it just doesn’t feel so extreme. And I can actually buy the idea it’s just the same Picard with the same 90+ year old body. But now you have to pretend it’s a ‘new’ Picard in a ‘new’ 90+ year old body?? What’s the point? And wasn’t the original disease a brain disease??? Maybe I’m just confused on that, but that was the other reason, because it didn’t sounded like a cognitive disease, so it would’ve just been more reasonable and logical to do. But maybe I just got that wrong.

C. Again, Schizoid Man and Inheritance were different because they were one offs and they didn’t do it with one of the most iconic characters in the franchise. Thorny I literally said I don’t have an issue with the concept in itself. That’s what Star Trek is, I made that clear. I just thought how it was done in Picard was lazy and unnecessary, especially since it felt so cheap to ‘kill’ him off in the first place because nothing changed. Literally nothing.

But I also said (that you conveniently ignored) if more will be added in season 2 about it, then my mind could change. Did I not say that? So give me a little credit here. Yes I didn’t like it, but it doesn’t mean my mind can’t be changed either. I said that. Right now, I’m only going on what we have at the moment. But if it’s like a Kirk/magic blood situation where it was totally ignored in Beyond then it will feel it was done for drama sake, ie, cheap. Hopefully it won’t be.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

Roger Korby way back in TOS What Are Little Girls Made Of? and Juliana Tainer in TNG Inheritance. Tainer was completely unaware she was an android and was able to fool transporters, Dr. Crusher’s medical scans and even her husband!

Seriously, people who complain about Picard really don’t seem to remember Inheritance at all.

Last edited 1 month ago by Thorny

In no way did What Are Little Girls Made Of? and TNG Inheritance imply that the “programming” was the equal of an organic brain with respect to innovation and imagination – just that the androids encounter appear human and can be programmed to believe they are human.
When Kirk faces off with V’ger in TMP in no way does Spock or Kirk imply that they can just engineer the ability to imagine, create living AI, etc.
In TNG Inheritance in no way does anyone think they can now give Data full emotions and now all Starfleet officers can upload themselves into AI and live forever.
Ironically the closest they got was the Data “emotion” chip – which the Borg then proceeded to invade Sector 001 and trick Picard into following them back in time to capture (see DVD commentary, the Borg communicate with Picard as a ruse). Note that the Borg Queen was obsessed with Data, that chip I would argue is why.

Last edited 1 month ago by Cmd.Bremmon

You’re right, neither of those episodes implied direct consciousness transference via androids, but it was directly done in Schizold Man and at least attempted in TOS Return to Tomorrow (although they didn’t quite get there lol) and which is a better example than the others.

So this idea is not new and has been around literally since TOS. I don’t have an issue with the idea itself, I just thought how it was done in Picard felt particularly cheap and lazy. Maybe if they did a better job of discussing it in the show in general, I could get more on board. I think a lot of people could.

The irony for me is I WANT more of these type of stories in Star Trek. I like to see more of this. As you know, I been saying this since the show started and I was happy to see things like Synths be a big part of the storyline. Sadly I just think the execution of it sucked….a lot.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

“Sadly I just think the execution of it sucked….a lot.”
I agree with you if they just whitewash the whole affair and don’t attempt to build upon this.
I was shocked when they had Admiral Picard build an evacuation fleet on his watch with robots programmed to have psuedo-emotions (yes, they could just be robots, but let’s program them to show some emotion that we can question if we are using slaves?).
Originally I thought this was going to fit into Discovery Season 3 and Control with living starships, holograms, eternal life and organics ending up second class citizens (no way we could compete for a Starfleet Academy spot with a living Enterprise-K that can generate thousands of holograms) and instead it all ends up ignored… was shocked when implications seemed to be.. ignored?
I think the solution is to bring in the Borg and play off Locutus, easily the best part of TNG, and reveal that to play this out is to setup the unimind for the win.
Robo-Picard can even flirt with thinking giving himself up to the Borg would help save organics without wrecking the legacy of Picard, something that couldn’t be done before. Lots of shades of grey which makes for a great story.
I see events as having to be pretty tragic/devastating/etc for something like tech bans to unfold (like a first contact gone wrong leading to the Prime Directive or the Eugenics Wars leading to the Eugenics ban).

Last edited 1 month ago by Cmd.Bremmon

Sigh

OK, I can’t have a normal conversation with you lol. It’s just no point in trying. It’s odd for someone who claim to hate robots, you kind of come off as one in a lot your posts.

Dude, this idea sucks man I’m sorry. No matter how many times you repeat it.

As far as Discovery season 3. It doesn’t mean synths and/or more advanced AI ships doesn’t exist. They very well could, we just haven’t seen them yet, so who knows? But clearly they still use holographic people as we saw at Federation headquarters. We didn’t see a single Klingon either last season, it doesn’t mean they don’t exist in the 32nd century, right?

I would think there could be some AI advanced ships as we saw Zora on the Discovery in Calypso? I mean clearly Discovery is the most advanced ship EVER lol, but I would like to think there would be more like her on starships by the 32nd century. The idea was presented before season 2 even came out, right? So yes it’s possible there are more ships like that along with people based ships. The two could work hand in hand.

Maybe now that Zora is being revealed, we’ll see more of her and maybe other advanced AI on ships like her in season 4, even if not as advanced yet. Or maybe she will be the prototype for Al based ships in the future?

This is why going forward excites me!

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

Well dude, I don’t get how you can watch TMP, have these characters go on on the evolution of life and then proceed to totally underestimate the impact of AI as life.
Consider you can have a living starship that can project itself as a hologram, it can live forever, and it can develop it’s own new technology.
Also everyone can upload themselves into these constructs that live forever, can fly, breath and space, etc. The impact is substantial. V’ger is the future then.
I’m going to argue that wasn’t in Discovery Season Three.
Sorry man, but “going forward” isn’t deep at all. It’s superficial. You’ll never be able to talk me into Riker getting old and living on the farm is to be recognized as just super cool versus a young Riker on a starship with his whole life before him becaue “going forward” and nostalgia. If anything it shows your just really desperate to see Riker regardless of story which I suppose is what CBS is counting on(??).
A poorly implemented Picard is an example of where just the act of moving the story forward in time doesn’t equate to better.

I’ve only watched TMP 2 or 3 times in my life. Haven’t watched it in 20 years. It just bores me. I’m going to watch it again in my rewatch since I’m rewatching the entire franchise in chronological order for the 55th anniversary. And at the rate I’m going maybe should get to the TOS movies in a few weeks (currently near the end of season 2 of TOS). I’ll let you know how I feel about it then. Maybe it will grow on me after this time.

No one is forcing you to watch Picard or Discovery in the 32nd century chief. If you don’t like going forward, fine, then shut it off and move on lol. It’s just a TV show man, no one is forcing you to watch, right? But yeah I love it! I been wanting Star Trek to really go forward since Voyager left. And it’s nothing wrong to see characters grow old. We watched Kirk and his crew grow old in the movies, that’s just part of life. You don’t seem to have an issue with that for some reason and in fact want to return to that era. What’s the difference?? I don’t have any issues with in Picard or other characters doing the same.

But all that said, I still had issues with both Picard and Discovery and they are both still my least favorite shows. So going forward doesn’t mean the shows will suddenly be great, but they are still more interesting to me (and I do love the 32nd century setting!). And clearly to the people who writing it, hence why Discovery is now so far into the future. And I only was asking for a show to go maybe 100 years passed Voyager, not 800 years lol. But now that we’re here…

And I never cared that we saw any old characters again from ANY show. I just wanted to go forward in the timeline. Again, they made that decision for obviously marketing reasons…and it’s working! Why we now have shows starring Pike and Janeway. Again, I never asked for either!

But if going forward is not your thing, understandable! No one cares, really. It’s OK NOT to watch. ;)

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

I have no objections to going forward at this point!! LOL
Let’s leave VOY and TNG in the past where it belongs!!!!

The TNG Federation is long gone (DIS: S3) with Miles O’Brien from DS9 ending up the most important character of that era (LD).

A TOS era starship is the key to saving the Federation post TNG (DIS: S3).

Dililthium burn makes space travel hard again (DIS: S3).

Picard ended up a jerk ditching friends to play on a winery after failing to save the Romulans and unethically on his watch wanting robots to act with emotions in effect acting as a slave master, only to end up on the outs with Starfleet (PIC: S1)

Now the questions some should have is what happened to the Borg in that 800 years, why did Picard end up such a jerk and why isn’t everyone uploaded into holographic live forever super enhanced life forms?

(Okay okay, and I need to learn to live with magic mushrooms and spore jumps being able to transverse the universe. Ugh.. everything has a price I guess)

“We’re 100% agreed on this! Robo-Picard is one of the dumbest ideas from this show and one of the reasons it’s sadly my least favorite Trek show at the moment. ”

When a show called Picard ends up a TNG apologists least favorite Trek, I see growth!!! WARP SPEED forward!

“I’ve only watched TMP 2 or 3 times in my life. Haven’t watched it in 20 years. It just bores me.”
But Voyager excites you?!?!?!

I recommend re-watch the TOS movies. And when you watch TMP think about Picard… and some of this conversation on the evolution of life, the idea of living starships that can create anything, life forever and what would happen to poor organics if that is the future. Ask yourself if uploading is the answer, because quite frankly maybe it is!
What does V’ger, that is the size of solar system and can make or go anywhere, want so bad?? Why does it feel trapped?!? What is it missing?!?! And WTF, where does it go at the end when it gets what it needs?!?!?

I guarantee you, you won’t be as bored this go around (should at least be a slight improvement, it’s no TWOK).

Last edited 1 month ago by Cmd.Bremmon

Well it’s not ‘long gone’ since we also have Picard and Lower Decks and probably Prodigy. ;)

It’s all still there with both old and new characters showing up and adding to the TNG era story lines. Again, if you don’t like it, that’s fine. Many many other Trek fans do like it, including people who come to this board. I never understand some fans. If you really don’t like it, you simply have the option to turn it off and move on! Pretty simple, especially with so much other Star Trek out there. And Miles O’Brien came from TNG dude lol.

Look man, it’s like arguing with a 12 year old. Different fans can simply like different things. They are just TV shows and movies. Get a grip.

No offense Cmd. Bremmmon, but old fans like you is why new fans probably stay away from boards like this. We supposedly watch Star Trek because we believe in diversity and other ideas and yet you can’t seem to get over that people simply like and invest in different shows you didn’t like. No one is telling you to be a fan of any of it, but you constantly try to dismiss other people’s interests in shows and movies because they don’t align with your political or scientific viewpoint.

Calling me a ‘TNG apologist’ because I simply like a show is just eye rolling. I also happen to be a be TOS, DS9, VOY, ENT and yes even at times a DIS and PIC ‘apologist’ because I happen to be a fan of ALL of it. And this ‘apologist’ has also been critical of all of it including TNG. The difference is that show has been off the air for over 20 years now, so I’m very comfortable of what I like and don’t like about it like most of the classic Trek shows.

The newer stuff is still very new so like all these shows it’s taking it’s time to gel. Now maybe they never will but based on history they all can, which is why I can be critical and yet optimistic of the shows at the same time because I been through this literally many times before. We all have. The difference between me and you is I just learn to appreciate and love basically all of it while still having my preferences. I’m not here to cut down other people’s love of it just because I don’t love a certain show or movie as much as them.

Or treat it like some bizarre contest or litmus test. If you love a certain show, ANY show, good for you. If you hate a show, also any show, no problems at all. We all have our individual tastes and preferences. I’m not here to challenge you on any of it, just try and have a mature conversation why I may feel differently. Not literally laugh at people like an immature teenager because they like something I don’t.

So I’m done. And yes maybe I will enjoy TMP more when I see it again. But if I don’t, it’s not a big deal because it’s simply not my taste and there are many other movies in the franchise I DO enjoy very much. And I have never once cut down or tried to dismiss a fan because they are big fans of the movie. I’ve never done that for any show or film here. That’s the difference between me and you. None of this matter man, it’s just entertainment. It’s for fun. But yes, entertainment we are very committed to and deeply appreciate, but I NEVER forget the former no matter what and why I have the outlook I do. Star Trek has shaped me in many ways, but end of the day it’s just all a TV show built on a lot of silly sci fi hokum that is mostly made up minutiae. None of it is real!

Like what you like man and stop insulting others for having the nerve to enjoy other TV shows in the same franchise you don’t.

Last edited 30 days ago by Tiger2

LOL Seriously dude, you need to chill. I’m here to engage in some exciting conversations and push some bold sci-fi / Wagon Train to the Stars action… your the one that seems personally offended by that.

Not everyone is going to want to dwell on Picard’s dog. Some will, some won’t. I don’t see why me not enjoying that upsets you so.

You can see, I liked O’Brien and I liked DS9, so obviously I would like to see that brought forward.

“Picard and Lower Decks”

Wait a minute, isn’t that not going forward?!!?!?

LOL And seriously, I like Lower Decks. TNG makes for great comedy, can we agree on that?

“…but end of the day it’s just all a TV show built on a lot of silly sci fi hokum that is mostly made up minutiae.”

I agree that is what it is now, but it doesn’t have to be this way. And the silly sci fi was to the determent of even TOS, I know I just accepted some of that nonsense but cause when TOS hit hard with some non silly sci fi, it was a direct hit.

Last edited 30 days ago by Cmd.Bremmon

“Wait a minute, isn’t that not going forward?!!?!?”

Well thanks to Discovery, everything is a prequal going forward lol.

And, as usual, you’re missing the point. I actually like the idea of Star Trek in multiple periods. I’ve said this many times in the past. The 24th century is my favorite century by far, but mostly because there is so many shows and movies in this era and have a lot of mythology of it. Many of us wanted to see the mythology of this era continue in some form after seeing it form for literally 15 years just like others want to see more 23rd century stories like you. But you can have both obviously and now we’re not only getting both but we’re going forward in new centuries and eras as well and see new mythology form like what Discovery is doing in the 32nd century. Maybe that show will go 7 seasons and 5 of them could give us a very deep mythology of this century with brand new aliens and concepts like the 22nd, 23rd and 24th centuries all did. That’s amazing to me!

I never had an issue with having a prequel show, I just didn’t only want prequels for the next 20 years either. Why I’m super excited for SNW because we can get (hopefully better) pre-TOS stories and build more on the 23rd century but still have a continuation of stories in the 24th, 25th, 32nd and maybe even beyond that some day.

That’s Star Trek to me, to see the endless possibilities. And while I’m not crazy about the new shows so far, they are finally doing something I been wanting to see done probably since TNG first arrived and a multitude of shows in various eras to view different aspects of the Federation. Star Trek is just a HUGE sandbox to play in and we’re finally seeing it at it’s full potential and multiple formats. We now have a thousand year timeline between the 22nd and 32nd century. That’s crazy lol! It is an exciting time to be a fan.

Last edited 30 days ago by Tiger2

And lastly I love A.I. stories just as much as I do alien and time travel stories. That’s why I love stuff like Star Trek, it’s an all-in-one shop for every sci fi trope and genre out there. But I’ve watch and read tons of science fiction stories dealing with A.I. and consciousness that had nothing to do with Star Trek for a long long time now.

So yeah I have no issues with AI starships or people because A. they are just stories and B. it’s a fascinating idea. Again you don’t HAVE to like the concept, but they are just story ideas man. Yes in theory people believe some day it’s possible we could have life like androids and maybe become one ourselves. Even if any of this does happen in real life (which I seriously seriously doubt as much as I doubt we’ll ever have warp drive and transporters) you and I will be long dead before anyone can take our consciousness and store it into a computer, so relax. You will die the old fashion way like every life form on the planet and maybe go to some after life of whatever god you believe in tells you will happen.

But yes, for Star Trek, this is par for the course of crazy and fascinating sci fi ideas which I love. That’s why I watch the show, for the possibilities, not what I think will actually happen, because I think very very little of it will ever happen lol. That’s literally why I watch it, to see these concepts in the extreme which Star Trek has always dove into head first and why there are now over 50 time travel stories. It’s shocking it took this long for this idea to even discuss it beyond an episode or movie.

Last edited 30 days ago by Tiger2

I find your posts snoozefests. Most of the time I have no idea what you are on about.

Sorry, your right.
Riker on the FARM and Picard has a DOG!!
And 1000 starships!!I LOVE THIS SHOW.
Maybe Geordi AND Wolf AND the Voyager-X will show up. Oh man, I can’t wait!!
Let’s totally ignore that whole Picard as AI thing.

Last edited 1 month ago by Cmd.Bremmon

Lol dude. Whatever makes you happy.

Hey, Cmd. Bremmon, you write better stuff than the show we’re watching. WTF?????

Sometimes I wonder if Kurtzman comes to this board and have a good cry? People are brutal here lol.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

Hey, if Kurtman doesn’t have the stones (dilithium) to make the ship go, don’t step forward to do it in the first place.

How do you know Kurtzman hasn’t planned all the above?? I think it fits and would be awesome.
Kurtzman did awesome with the new Hawaii Five O and Transformers Prime.
Discovery was pretty good.
Brannon Braga crying on the other hand, well… bed time, good night.

Kurtman couldn’t find his own ass with a map and flashlight!

We know you think your story is awesome. This is why fan boards are fun…sometimes!

I got through four episodes of Hawaii 5-0. But I’ll take your word for it.

Really liked Fringe though.

And I’m sure Braga would cry here too lol. But not as hard as Kurtzman.

Agreed on the new Five-O. I watched a few episodes, and then there was one scene where McGarrett and Danny strapped bad guy to the hood of their car and raced through the streets of Honolulu.

I’ve never watched it since.

Ha ha You know what on second thought, defending Kurtzman is NOT a hill to die on so you win!
Anyone who has read my posts knows that I was no ST:ID fan.
But let’s give Kurtzman credit for not turning Janeway into a lizard for hitting Warp 10 that we can end this on a cheerful note lol

Last edited 30 days ago by Cmd.Bremmon

That is not good… Kurtzman in my opinion is way better than Braga!!!
Which uh… yeah.

I like Kurtzman! But I agree he definitely has lots of flaws too. But I like him because he does listen to the fans. I mean Braga may have, but clearly not a level Kurtzman is and why they are making post-Nemesis shows now, got rid of the silly Orc Klingons and fixed the biggest mistake by throwing Discovery 900 years into the future.

It’s also why we probably now have a Pike show coming out next year and no longer a Section 31 show. Most fans really wanted the former and hated the latter. Clearly he listened. So I know many fans still hate him but those are all good things I am actively happy about even if the executions are still a bit off.

But for some people, as long as Discovery continues to get renewed, then they will continue to hate him. Some of these people, you just can’t get through with no matter what.

Last edited 30 days ago by Tiger2

Your view of “awesome” is, shall we say, subpar.

Kurtzman did awesome with the new Hawaii Five O and Transformers Prime.

A decade of Brannon Braga might have lowered my expectations, compared to that nonsense Hawaii Five O was a breath of fresh air.

“Sometimes I wonder if Kurtzman comes to this board and have a good cry? People are brutal here lol”

I remember Bob Orci being a regular here a couple of years ago, before Beyond… It’s not totally unimaginable Kurtzman or some of the other writers / producers are reading this. Look at how much they’ve changed after S1 of DSC because we complained about the Klingon design, holographic communication etc. I’d really like Picard to give that Admiral a lecture on her swearing issues…

lol I know what you mean.

Thanks! I think it fits that it might be what is planned. If it isn’t, maybe they can steal it? This would redeem the whole robo Picard plot and put this on par with TOS (IMHO)

If you’re interested in seeing the singularity explored in Star Trek Cmd. Bremmon then you should check out season 2 of Discovery, it would be right up your street.

Last edited 1 month ago by Corinthian7

That Discovery wanted to play with that topic.. it’s beyond me why they would bring it up in Picard only to ignore it with Discovery season 3.
If Picard’s tech was viable you’d expect the Season 3 Federation to have living starships, living holograms, individuals who loaded themselves into mainframes to live forever, fly, etc.
Something must happen that goes tragically wrong that this tech isn’t developed further. See my above proposal the realization that the Borg unimind ends up the ultimate winner and how to make that into a hard hitting adventure. They hunt down robo-Picard who chooses to sacrifice himself at the end with the help of O’Brien to save the Federation from that fate.
Prodigy could come into play too, maybe for a bit all of Starfleet ends up AI life (holograms and living starships exploring the universe) that these organics end up heading out themselves. Maybe have the AI life ban exploration seeing it as nasty organics polluting the Universe.

its not really surprising that Discovery hasn’t tied in too deeply to Star Trek Picard. It’s no different than TNG and early DS9 avoiding any major TOS references whilst they were still making movies with those characters. If you think about it one of the biggest complaints about DIS was that being a prequel severely limited the storytelling potential. Therefore if they were to follow up on the events of PIC bringing them up to date with the 32nd century then they would similarly handicap future seasons of that show.

Regarding your claim that ‘robo Picard’ is the singularity, I disagree. At least I do if your talking specifically about the golem that Jean Luc’s consciousness was transferred to because I accept there’s a case you could make for the civilisation of artificial life forms that Soong and Maddox created. Hovever they’re an independent state, there’s nothing to say they would share their technology or that the federation would choose to adopt it. As for Admiral Picard, the episode made it clear that he was designed without superpowers, to all intents and purposes he might as well just be in a clone body. Crucially Picard doesn’t have the ability to replicate or independently improve on the technology that houses his consciousness which he’d kind of need to be able to do to be considered the singularity.

Now for me personally I think it seems unrealistic that the Federation didn’t reach the singularity long before TOS but that’s just my opinion based on how I see AI technology developing in the real world. It doesn’t mean a lot because I’m not remotely an expert in these matters but even if I was the worlds preeminent authority in this field it wouldn’t matter because Star Trek is a work of fiction and that’s just one of the rules we have to accept when investing time in its universe.

One final point, I would say that Discovery is still exploring these themes with arc depicting the emerging consciousness arising from the sphere data. So I’d still stand by my point that if you’re interested in Star Trek’s take on the singularity then DIS is still probably the best for you.

Last edited 30 days ago by Corinthian7

Thank you for adding common sense! ;)

And yes, PIC and DIS are literally 800 years apart, it’s not a shock they wouldn’t explore all the story lines directly. Especially since the producers made it clear they don’t want to do these shows MCU style and not be a situation where you have to watch Picard to understand what is going on in Discovery season 3. That’s literally what they are trying NOT to do and has said so. Sure there will obviously be elements from different shows, that’s how a shared universe works and how we got the Qowat Mila in Discovery last season. But they don’t want direct story lines tie in to each other.

And as I said in another post here, we may see Synths and more A.I. driven stories on Discovery but they will be their own thing literally like what saw in season 2 with Control and then Picard with the Synths. But I do think we will see Synths on Discovery.

And I fully agrees with you about Zora. It’s odd how he’s so obsessed with Picard and A.I. emergence but completely ignores Zora which is literally an A.I. becoming not only conscious but suggests that Discovery herself could become a sentient being. I mean the entire story line of season 2 was Control wanting the sphere data because he thought it would bring him consciousness. But it’s all stored in Discovery which the sphere data has clearly had an affect on and now it too seems to becoming more conscious because to it.

He keeps going on about ‘living starships’ and yet Discovery has suggested this could happen long ago in Calypso. And now we’re starting to see the beginnings of that with the sphere data in season 3. I think that is what the singularity is as well, it’s the sphere data and Zora. That’s why I’m looking forward to season 4 as well, I think we’re going to see Zora truly emerge next season or at least become an independent character who makes her own decisions. We’ve already seen that happen in the finale as well.

So they already are playing with this topic! They have been since season 2. It’s just slightly different than how it’s being shown in Picard, because again, they want the shows to have their own separate mythology and story lines running.

Cmd Bremmon may not like the idea, but it’s already been suggested on Discovery. And as someone once said, young minds, fresh ideas! This seems to be something Star Trek can really go into and excited for the possibilities of where it could lead.

Last edited 30 days ago by Tiger2

Discovery is now 800 years after Picard, that’s why I think you resolve this on Picard and answer the question of where are the Borg, go out in a big epic adventure.
Zora is ok… but BORING. Starship life that can explore the universe and do whatever and decides to sit there and do nothing but play holodeck. She is the TNG of AI Starships?!?
I assume that originally they had a plan for Discovery end up with AI via Control or whatever and the ship would jump into the future early before the crew shows up or whatever because right now her just sitting there makes no sense. I hope it all makes sense with a plot – kind of like how they really should try to make robo-Picard relevant and exciting.
If we are doing the signularity let’s have some fun with it.
Living starships, replacing organics, let the adventure begin!
Or is this the ultimate objective of the Borg to replace organics, assimilation is obsolete, now they can just get rid of you because who needs you?
Damned if you try to make TNG relevant, damned if you agree it is completely irrelevant to the future LOL

Last edited 30 days ago by Cmd.Bremmon

Well since Discovery literally has holodecks now, then yes Zora literally can play holodeck….for a thousand years. ;D

They did say a few months ago they do plan to tie the show into Calypso later, so we’ll see. But I’m actually skeptical about it too.

As for the show, the point is that’s probably where the idea of the singularity can happen since A. Discovery takes place in a far future where A.I. should just be very prominent and B. Zora could be a bigger key to that going forward.

And the Borg can still show up in the 32nd century too! ;)

TNG never did many A.I. stories outside of Data, so I don’t understand your point how that would make it relevant or not (but I rarely understand most of your points lol). That was the one let down of the show, that they didn’t do more with the concept. But then DS9 avoided it completely. TOS did it a little, I guess enough for its time (and it was usually ‘robots bad’ stories). And VOY had the same problem, it was usually around the Doctor and holograms and very little beyond that. It’s so odd so many shows and movies and we never seen a single story of them just landing on a planet based around a machine society. Especially knowing how old the universe is, there would probably be machine societies throughout the galaxy.

We (sort of) got it in Picard….but it sucked!

But they can still do more A.I. stories with Picard and obviously I hope they do. I just don’t think it’s going to be anything more than Picard and Soji discussing what makes them ‘real’ or not. But maybe it will be more.

Last edited 30 days ago by Tiger2

Thanks Tiger2 and I totally agree. I won’t go into too much detail in this reply because I’ve posted some of my thoughts in a direct response to Cmd Bremmon but suffice to say I don’t agree with his thoughts on what direction to take the franchise.

Nice to see that you’ve been going through a chronological rewatch of all of Trek. I’m just coming to the end of one myself although it’s been quite casual and took me a couple of years so I would exactly call it a marathon. I’m up to season 3 of Discovery (which I did watch out of sequence when it aired) and then I’m done. I have to admit that when I rewatched Picard season one I enjoyed it a lot more than my first viewing but I was left a little bit disappointed with Lower Decks.

For me this was my first viewing of the series because of the delayed international release. I didn’t hate the show, there’s stuff I really like in although I think I prefer Tendi and Rutherford to Mariner and Boimler but I just couldn,t get to grips with the more zany OTT approach in a Star Trek show. That’s not to say I can’t appreciate the more zany OTT style of adult animated comedy, just that I found it jarring when it came prefixed with ‘Star Trek’.

If I’m completely honest with myself I know I’m that judging Lower Decks based on the show I wanted them to make rather than what they were actually trying to make. That was my big issue with Picard season one as well so like that show, I suspect than when I rewatch LDS without any preconceptions of what I think they should do and actually judge it on fair criteria my opinion of it will likely be much more positive.

Good to hear from you Corinthian7!

And yes I’m watching the entire franchise in chronological order and really enjoying the ride. I started literally on New Years day with Broken Bow and currently at the tail end of TOS season 2. I’m shocked I never thought of doing this before, but I have never been home THIS MUCH until now lol. But honestly not only has it been fun, it’s forced me to watch episodes of shows I haven’t seen in literally years.

So far it’s just been ENT and TOS mostly, but I’m surprised just how many episodes I have not rewatched in ages, especially when it comes to TOS. Yeah it’s mostly the bad ones lol, but there have been some really solid ones I completely forgot about too. And it has made me appreciate TOS again (or Those Old Scientists ;)) since me and you have talked about it not too long ago and how much harder it is to watch now. But watching it straight through has been pretty fun actually. I forget about so many great moments of the show!

So yeah, really fun, but I can’t wait to get to the 24th century once I’m done with TOS and the 23rd century. That’s when the real work begins! ;D

As far as LDS, I hear you! Honestly I’m shocked I liked it as much as I did. But it’s certainly not for everyone either. That’s not remotely controversial to say. I mean it IS over the top lol. But I think it’s done in a way not to make direct fun of Star Trek obviously, but certainly makes fun of how things are done in the shows at times. I don’t have any issue with it, but understandable if it does for others.

To me though, the story lines themselves are done so well, even if its a comedy and it’s just fun to have stories about actual exploration again. Above all else, that’s what makes me a fan of Star Trek the most. And I love the second contact idea. And the characters are fun, especially Tendi and Rutherford as you mentioned. When you think of positive, smart, optimistic and reliable Starfleet characters, these are the best examples. Tendi is easily my favorite and it’s nice to get positive images of Orions. I mean it’s been over five whole years now since some of them stopped pirating or selling their women into slavery! Progress.

LDS is such an odd show in so many ways but yet it still feels like Star Trek I haven’t felt since Enterprise IMO. But yes only MY opinion! ;)

Anyway I will obviously rewatch the season and curious to see if my mind has changed much since a little time has happened between it. But if its not your thing, it’s understandable. You can always rewatch it again later and see how you feel. One thing about having a 10 episode 30 minute season, it doesn’t takes weeks to get through. ;)

As for Cmmd. Bremmon and his ‘story’ idea….yeeeaaaah.

Last edited 29 days ago by Tiger2

I think if you liked it the first time Tiger2 you’ll probably only appreciate it more on second watch. It’s clear that a lot of love went into the show and with so many little nods and winks to previous Trek I suspect it will have been impossible to pick up on them all in the first watch. So you’ll have all of that to look forward to when you get up to it in your rewatch and with all the other series fresh in your memory you’re going to be much more attuned to pick up on them.

I actually love the second contact concept, it’s a wonderful addition to canon that I think would be great to see in live action. Maybe the more episodic approach that they’re taking with SNW will provide an opportunity to do something like that. I really liked the season finale as well and it was great seeing Riker and Troi on the Titan finally! I just found that the humour was a little too meta and OTT at times and it stopped me getting really immersed in the stories. That’s a harsh and unfair objection to the show really because I recognise those elements are just part of the adult animated comedy genre and the same jokes that take me out of the show in Star Trek I’d probably be loving if it was in Futurama or something.

So like I say, I know I’m not being entirely rational in my initial judgement. I often find with franchises that I’m really invested in that I’ll bring preconceptions and certain expectations to my first viewing. I of course always do my best to watch these things with an open mind but I don’t think any of us can completely do this when it’s something that we love and have followed for many years. I do tend to be more accepting in my second viewings though. Don’t get me wrong, if something is just genuinely crap I’m not going to like it no matter how many times I watch it but if my enjoyment was just diminished because it was different and perhaps not aligned with the direction I was hoping they’d take the property I will usually get past this if it’s still a quality production. I have a feeling that with LDS it’s going to be the latter and that it will grow on me… a lot!

You make a good point about some of the humor feeling too ‘meta’ and that is one of my criticisms as well. It’s one thing to reference characters they really shouldn’t even heard of but it’s another thing to mention the names of episodes. That really took it too far and almost takes you out of the episode.

But even Mike McMahan said they realized they went overboard on some of the jokes and references and going to pull back on more next season.

LDS is definitely an acquired taste but as you said you can see the love they put into the show. You’re constantly catching things all the time. For me, I don’t even care if its funny or not (but I laughed pretty much every episode) I just like how Star Trek it feels. I would like to see McMahan make a live action show, he would probably be a lot more popular than a lot of the writers and producers making the live action shows.

I think you’re right but I expect I will acquire that taste. Either way the positive reaction from so many of the fans shows that there is room for this type of show in Trek so I hope it gets to stick around for many years.

Maybe McMahon will get a chance somewhere down the line. I know you don’t like The Orville as much as me but it’s success has potentially championed the cause of somebody like McMahon getting a live action gig.

If Short Trek’s are still a thing I think it could be a great opportunity not only to give McMahon a chance outside of animation but also to bring some of the Lower Decks characters over to live action. If you look at the actors cast on LDS most of them look like older versions of the roles they’re playing so this could be done quite cheaply redressing PIC and DIS sets or creating virtual ones and using the new live action Starfleet uniforms that they’ve created for the 24th century. I’d expect them to tone down the performances for live action but there’d still be plenty of opportunities for humour.

Last edited 28 days ago by Corinthian7

“Now for me personally I think it seems unrealistic that the Federation didn’t reach the singularity long before TOS but that’s just my opinion based on how I see AI technology developing in the real world.”

Well, now jump to Picard… where appearently Picard can live forever as an AI.
And then jump 800 years after that!!!

And you really think the Borg wouldn’t see any kind of opportunity here to exploit?

Also Picard is now a prequal to Discovery, it has already handicapped Picard in that the guy has to be pretty much irrelevant for some reason on all AI fronts (and Federation literally has to burn).

Why not let Picard go out with a bang in preventing the Borg from using his tech to take over the world, thus saving the Universe?!?
That seems way more exciting than Picard was a jerk who ditched his friends, build a fleet using pseudo-slaves on his watch, screwed up saving the Romulans, drove his android friend to commit sucidie because he didn’t want to live (I TOTALLY PREFER TO PREVENT THE BORG HERE AS DATA IS AN OK CHARACTER) and then find AI tech just for it to be ignored for 800 years because Picard ranting on AI life then doesn’t share AI life.

Damned if you try to make TNG relevant, damned if you agree it is completely irrelevant to the future LOL

TNG is already relevant to many, many people. What you’re really saying is that you want to subvert a show that is held dear by millions of fans by turning a beloved character essentially into a Borg pawn for 5 seasons of television and four feature films and then you’re wanting to turn one of the most popular and iconic enemies of the Federation into something unrecognisable just to make TNG relevant for YOU!

The Borg don’t need Picard’s technology to live forever, their Queen already is immortal and there’s been zero evidence in any of the shows to suggest they want to to remove organics from the collective and replace them with pure synthetics. Why would you even want to see that? You would basically be taking away the feature that makes them so scary and iconic in the first place! Clearly if they wanted to introduce a purely synthetic/AI villain into the mythology they would just create a new one rather than destroying one of the most popular Trek races and that is exactly what they’ve done with Control in DIS and the synthetic federation in PIC.

Also you’re assumption that Picard has not shared the AI technology with the Federation is flawed. First of all we don’t know what he’s done after the season finale because not one episode of season 2 has aired! Maybe he has shared it and the federation choose not to develop it or maybe it’s just not his technology to share! In any case I think it’s unrealistic to expect to see huge societal change on the scale you’re proposing because Star Trek is just not that kind of show! It’s essentially a smorgasbord of all the different flavours of science fiction, that’s why you have so many different and conflicting rules on time travel and different takes on artificial life within the franchise. In the real world if or when the singularity happens it will likely have huge ramifications for all life on the planet, but in Trek it would barely cause a ripple because those consequences will be contained to a single group or planet and left in a quiet coroner of the trek universe to do androidy things until they’re called upon again for a follow up episode. Maybe that’s not very realistic but I’m fine with it because if they were to explore and expand on the consequences of all the crazy events that have happened in this fictional universe it would turn it into a completely different show.

Again, thanks for saying it! I can’t be bothered to keep going back and forth with something that sounds really really silly. I don’t even know if his posts are meant to be serious or not, but since he’s been posting this inane idea for literally a year now, I guess it is.

And then to try and say TNG is not ‘relevant’ for a 30 year old iconic show that not only has tens of millions of fans, but even got some my own friends into the franchise who never gave TOS a chance because it came off too old and outdated for them (and I’m talking about the 90s), it just comes off like gate keeping to me which is NOT allowed here. You can certainly like or dislike any show, no one cares. But when you spend so much time and energy trying to dismiss a show or pretend it’s not relevant to so many of us who do consider ourselves devoted fans of this franchise due to that show just because YOU don’t like it is just eye rolling. But welcome to a so-called ‘fan’ board I guess.

I like the guy and I hate to say this, but sometimes I wish there was an ignore button here so I can just not get caught up in this silliness every time lol. But I have no one to blame but myself. ;)

Last edited 29 days ago by Tiger2

With all due respect I am not the one who:

#1) Made the best episode of TNG the one where Picard is very much a pawn for the Borg.
#2) Made the Borg assimilate organics for their technology who very much declare that they are doing this for technological distinctiveness. If they could do that on their own, what would they need to assimilate for?
#3 ) Made the unimind attempt to capture Data using Picard to destroy the Cube as a ruse (see the First contact DVD commentary)
#4) Made Picard become obsessed about Data to the point he ditched his friends and built the Romulan evacuation fleet on his watch programming robots to have emotions that they act like slaves
#5) Ditched his friends for decades.
#6) Had Picard still obsessed about AI even after failing to save the Romulans as a result and the point Data commits suicide.
#7) Converted Picard to AI
#8) Had a canon show declaring that Miles O’Brien has to become the most important person in Starfleet
#9) Had a show set 800 years later where the TNG Federation is gone where people aren’t AIs living forever as Picard has.

Last edited 28 days ago by Cmd.Bremmon

1) Made the best episode of TNG the one where Picard is very much a pawn for the Borg.

Key word – episode. Trying to claim he remained their pawn for the next 30 years undermines the resolution of said best episode.

#2) Made the Borg assimilate organics for their technology who very much declare that they are doing this for technological distinctiveness. If they could do that on their own, what would they need to assimilate for?

‘We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Yourculture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile!’

Key word – ‘biological’ they don’t just assimilate organics to absorb their technological distinctiveness they’re also seeking biological distinctiveness.

#3 ) Made the unimind attempt to capture Data using Picard to destroy the Cube as a ruse  (see the First contact DVD commentary)

DVD commentaries are not canon and neither of the writers of that movie are involved in the production of Star Trek any more so whatever their intentions were is irrelevant as the current stewards of the franchise are not obliged to honour them.

#4) Made Picard become obsessed about Data to the point he ditched his friends and built the Romulan evacuation fleet on his watch programming robots to have emotions that they act like slaves

The logic you use here is a textbook example of a causal fallacy.

#5) Ditched his friends for decades

Theres loads of old friends I haven,t heard from in years, am I to assume that they’re all brainwashed Borg pawns? ;)

#6) Had Picard still obsessed about AI even after failing to save the Romulans as a result and the point Data commits suicide.

Another hasty generalisation. We know that Picard still grieved for Data but there’s no evidence one way or the other to suggest that he obsessed over AI for all those years. Although the fact that he had wrote prolifically on a wide range of subjects since his retirement would seem to imply that he wasn’t just fixated on Artificial intelligence.

#7) Converted Picard to AI

Was it an artificial intelligence or a clone of a preexisting biologically created consciousness? Honestly I couldn’t answer that question but it’s an interesting metaphysical debate.

#8) Had a canon show declaring that Miles O’Brien has to become the most important person in Starfleet

LDS may be canon but given the format I’m not sure we have to take every throwaway joke literally but just for arguments sake let’s assume O’Brien really is number one on the all time Starfleet legends lists we still don’t why.

#9) Had a show set 800 years later where the TNG Federation is gone where people aren’t AIs living forever as Picard has.

Which AI’s live forever? Picard’s body has an expiration date and the androids at the colony were prone to permanent death if you so much as poked them in the eye.

Again, it’s no point lol. It’s like trying to argue with a 12 year old. Even after you refuted all his points, he’s going to just say them all over again on another thread a few days later as if you never had this conversation. So it’s really no point.

I mean, he goes on and on about Picard ‘living forever’ when they made it clear in the finale he will still die around what most people his age and condition of health will. I’ve mentioned that to him months ago and he saw the episode and yet he’s still parroting it.

But that’s why the whole ordeal feels cheap to me because basically literally NOTHING changed. They gave him a new body that is identical to the old one every major way including dying at a normal age. It seem so unnecessary to do, but now we have to hear this guy and his bizarre theories drone on about it for the next 10 years lol.

Lol I know it is turning into a bit of a circular argument. I do my best to be patient on the internet unless it’s a clear troll because you don’t know the circumstances of the person on the other end of the keyboard. Are you just speaking to a really enthusiastic fan, might it sometimes be difficult for them to get a point across in a second or third language (I can struggle sometimes in my first and only language), could they have a condition that affects how they process information or affects how they see the world etc etc. There’s no real way for me to know any of these things over the internet but Cmd.Bremmon is clearly a bigTrek fan.

Yeah I totally get you on the Picard synth body thing it did feel so unnecessary and convenient the way it was done. My own take on it is two fold:

  1. They wanted to have a tangible physical resolution to Picard’s arc for the season. In the admiral’s own words he was no longer living he was just waiting to die. Data’s daughters coming into his life gave him a new sense of purpose that started burning away the husk that had replaced the this once great man and out of the ashes arose the Captain Picard we’d all known and loved. The Android body was just a literal way of ramming home this phoenix metaphor.
  2. They wanted an insurance policy that allows them to recast and use this character indefinitely. It’s not just that Sir Patrick is getting old, he could have a great many years ahead of him but I suspect he doesn’t want to spend all of them playing Picard. As much as we’ve both pointed out that they’ve programmed his new body with an end date Cmd.Bremmon does have a point – the writers can keep the character going for as long as they want and in the same canon now.

When I looked at it from these points of view I became far more accepting of the creative choice they took. I don’t really think they thought about the metaphysics of it all when they took the decision. They just thought fans would accept it like they did the temporal duplicates of O’Brien or Kim. Because there’s been so much backlash about it and questions posed about is it really the same man they probably will address it in some sort of superficial way. Maybe Picard won’t like the taste of Earl Grey in his new body or have a late night existential chat with Reyes over a couple of glasses of wine but for the most part I think they’ll just move on with a rejuvenated lead.

Regarding the potential for future recasting the same logic could also be applied to Data. The technology to rebuild his consciousness is now clearly established, there’s an opportunity to make a more diverse casting choice for an iconic character without breaking canon and Spiner has actually said he’d like to see the role played by somebody else someday. Now I’m not necessarily saying that should or will do any of this, just that the door is now open if they do choose to go through it.

“Regarding the potential for future recasting the same logic could also be applied to Data. The technology to rebuild his consciousness is now clearly established, there’s an opportunity to make a more diverse casting choice for an iconic character without breaking canon and Spiner has actually said he’d like to see the role played by somebody else someday. Now I’m not necessarily saying that should or will do any of this, just that the door is now open if they do choose to go through it.”

YES.

The door is open for people to live forever and for AI to completely replace organics.
You can now having living starships that explore planets with living holograms/androids, etc.

You can now either
a) Ignore it
b) Run with it

I say b, but since Discovery isn’t a Federation of synths that live forever with downloaded memories, you have to explain why it doesn’t make it post temporal war.
I vote for b plus Borg fight = consequences that lead to the banning of the tech.

Just think of all the stories we got with the Eugenics ban. Now you have an AI ban that can be debated for ages!

Last edited 27 days ago by Cmd.Bremmon

‘You can now either
a) Ignore it
b) Run with it’

I say ignore it. Ultimately Star Trek is a show about the human condition. Of course they often look at this through the prism of other alien races but humanity has always been the anchor at the centre of all this. If you take away something so fundamental to defining humanity like death then the characters become much less relatable.

Discovery doesn’t need to fill in all the gaps with throwaway lines. Our imaginations and speculation can do that just fine. To do otherwise only limits the creative choices of future storytellers in the Star Trek universe.

Cmd. Bremmon is not a troll obviously which is why I do TRY and have an adult conversation with him. He’s very passionate about Star Trek as most of us are here. That’s a good thing obviously. But he does seem to completely ignore points that refutes his argument and keep repeating the same things over and over again.

Now obviously he can just disagree with those points, but when those arguments are just plain facts that knocks down his arguments, like the FACT they said Picard will just die normally as stated, then clearly no he’s not going to live forever, but he constantly repeats it again anyway. It just becomes eye rolling. Picard didn’t even ask to be placed in another body, it wasn’t even his choice. Soong made that for him.

It has nothing to do if English is his second or fifth language, he clearly understands it, just ignores it like so many other point, but I digress.

But sticking to the topic (the topic was actually about Colm Meaney showing up on Picard but we’re so passed that lol), I think you’re right, it’s way to keep the character going indefinitely. And of course it’s not really that hard anyway since by the 24th century humans naturally live longer. McCoy was still working in Starfleet at 137 years old, so Picard can probably get to 150 on his own, and why still just feels so unnecessary. The characters all basically can live long and prosper pass 100 years old without being in an android body.

But yes I do agree with both you AND Cmd. Bremmon obviously, in theory they have perfected a way for humans to live forever. And I know that seems to reeeeaally bother him lol, but it’s a valid point.

But to me, I don’t really overthink it that much because it’s still Star Trek. Star Trek has found ways to extend life through weird ways forever now. People bring up the transporter over and over again. I don’t mean just copy yourself but we literally saw Scotty stuck in a transporter buffer for 70 years and came back with no issues. If you’re dying of an incurable disease for example, what stops anyone from placing you in a transporter buffer or similar technology and you’re stored there until decades or even a century later when they do find a way to cure it and you are reverted back to your old self, good as new? It’s literally Star Trek’s answer to cryonics that we saw in “The Neutral Zone”.

But it’s Star Trek, so naturally everyone has forgotten it lol or never even considered it. They do this over and over again.

I mean they have had the technology to place consciousness into Android bodies literally since TOS in “What Are Little Girls Made of?”, over an entire century before we saw it in Picard. I recently rewatched it a few weeks ago for my . I haven’t seen it in ages.

And what’s funny is, not only does it show consciousness can be transferred as we saw with Kirk but it can be duplicated as well, which I remember was a huge argument at the time with Picard. Funny how something already suggested that was written in the 1960s is basically just a shrug because in Star Trek this is just another day of the week for them. They record it in their logs and then they move on to the next adventure, nothing beyond that.

And of course in that episode it was all being done secretly and away from prying eyes. It was considered untechnical and against Federation law. But clearly someone not only knew how to do it but did it anyway even when they weren’t suppose to.

Sound familiar?

All Soong did was perfect something that was already achievable literally over 100 years ago. Synths are just way more advanced than the androids Dr. Korby made, but life transference is very very old in Star Trek lore, literally as old as the show itself.

But I’ve always said nearly every crazy insane idea Star Trek has ever proposed has all been done in TOS already. It may be elaborated or altered a bit in the other shows but the original idea has probably existed in the original show in some form; maybe just not as sophisticated or well thought out being made at an earlier time.

Only the difference is they were smart enough not to keep the Kirk android around beyond an episode. Sadly we are stuck with the Picard one. Sigh

Last edited 27 days ago by Tiger2

No I get that Tiger, I can see that you’ve been trying to talk Trek with Cmd Bremmon and again you’ve made some great points, some of which were similar to the ones I’ve been trying to get across so you’ve probably saved me having to type out a lengthier reply lol.

In terms of Picard’s age I think they said he was 92 so without the irumodic syndrome you’re absolutely right, he could conceivably live for another 50 years or so. The key question though is not how long that Picard can live but how long they can keep their show’s lead engaged (pun intended) enough to want to continue in the role. My guess is probably not that long but they might still have plans for the character. Having had his consciousness transferred once I guess they could do it again if they so choose or if circumstances required a recasting of the role to finish the story. Of course if they did want to continue to tell stories about Picard with another actor there’s really no need to transfer him to another body as there’s years of backstory that they could cover with his time on the Stargazer.

Whilst I concede Bremmon’s point that they could use this plot point as a means of making everybody in the Federation immortal I don’t see that as a credible development for the property. It’s also nothing new, if they wanted Star Trek to be a show about immortal superheroes they could have invented a reason to do that at any stage in the franchise’s history with all the advanced technology, ancient aliens, crazy technology and godlike entities floating around the galaxy. They don’t and won’t do it because at it’s core Star Trek is still a show about the human condition. I won’t elaborate further than that in my reply to you though because I know you’re not the one clamouring for it lol.

Why would you not just upload yourself into a new a new body again and again?

Also Tiger2, I really don’t argue with you, because you really big nothing to the table usually.

I try to talk scifi and Trek with you, but you just go into personal attacks, personal dislike, etc.

It’s never “I don’t think Picard should be this because he redeemed himself as X, Y, Z or, I don’t think AI’s life forever because X, Y, Z”, it’s always some personal attack.

I try to ignore it, but it’s pretty disgusting. If you don’t like someone personally, just ignore it.

Let some of us talk some trek / sci-fi.

Last edited 27 days ago by Cmd.Bremmon

Dude NO ONE argues with you because no one can even understand most of your arguments lol. They are so nonsensical most of the time and many people pointed out including Corinthian7 your story idea is not only ridiculous, it makes no logical sense because (as usual) you cherry pick things to make your arguments but leave out vital points why it doesn’t make sense over and over again. He’s just much nicer about it than me. ;)

“Why would you not just upload yourself into a new a new body again and again?”

LOL, this is what is soooo annoying about you. And why I say it’s like arguing with a 12 year old. I have answered this question you asked, not once, not twice, but THREE times now lol.

And I’m going to answer it yet again for the fourth time it appears. Because maybe the Federation just dictated that it’s ILLEGAL to do? The same reason why it’s also illegal to time travel, create clones or advance genetic engineering in the Federation as well, someone simply said you can’t do that, so they don’t.

Maybe this is the simplest explanation and possibility since the Federation put a moratorium making Synths illegal. So maybe after what happened with Picard, there is just fierce debate about it and decided it’s just a road no one should go down, since after all we have seen the Federation come down against prolonging life beyond basic medicine or natural scientific breakthroughs. Maybe it will even be addressed in next season (funny how this never seems to occur to you ).

In other words, they don’t seem to like the idea of what would be considered unethical science just like you (and many countries today) seem to be against now. Right?

But again man, I have answered this. Of course it doesn’t mean it’s right, but it is the most logical based on what we know of the Federation in both the 23rd and 24th century. And that easily solves your question why everyone in the 32nd century is probably not body swapping, because they just decided to never do it.

You’re talking about an organization that decided to ban all time travel once it got too much for them. So it doesn’t take much right? Maybe shit just go sideways and they decide conscious transferring is just as dangerous as time travel turned out to be. That’s possible too, right? So I really DO try to answer your questions in a mature and logical manner…but it just gets ignored lol.

And I expect you to forget this answer in a day and continue with your bizarre Borg theory because again, you do it over and over again.

Maybe language is not the problem, maybe you just have a very short term memory that is. ;)

Last edited 27 days ago by Tiger2

Which AI’s live forever? Picard’s body has an expiration date and the androids at the colony were prone to permanent death if you so much as poked them in the eye.”

Upload into a new body. Done.

Yeah I get that they could and maybe they will in some future version of Trek but it’s not a given. At this point in the shows canon they have been clear in that they’ve given his new body an expiration date. They could choose to develop a storyline that reverses that decision but equally they could write something into the narrative that prevents this from happening. At the end of the day making stuff up is what fiction is all about ;)

I think this is a great continuation for the Borg. I think the plot has captured the magic and the essence of the “Best of Both Worlds”. You should consider sending this ideas to Kurtzman first. :P

Last edited 1 month ago by Jay

We really, really do not need to be planning an entire season of what is really the only good Trek currently being produced around a stupid, inside baseball, throw-away line from the worst Trek currently being produced.

O’Brien did have a relationship with Picard, as we saw in “All Good Things,” “The Wounded,” “Power Play,” and similar episodes in between Wesley Crusher’s departure and the DS9 premiere, not to mention the passing-of-the-torch scene in the DS9 pilot. But there are much more interesting characters to explore, such as Beverly and Worf.

Also in Lower Deck they say Miles O’Brien is the most important person in Starfleet

+1000

Lower Decks is way more entertaining than both PIC and TNG in my humble opinion.

I’d love to see Miles or Worf, but I think it’d be really cool for Ian McKellen to get a recurring guest role, maybe as a Q or some other species without heavy makeup.

I wouldn’t mind seeing O’Brien pop up, but I don’t feel any burning need for it, either. Especially given how lame the first season of “Picard” was.

“Interesting storyline” and “dramatic sense” as well as “valid reason” for characters to appear… Ouch… It’s PIC we are talking about. I loved to see Picard, Seven or some of the other characters again but apart from that, PIC S1 made little sense to me. The beginning was quite interesting but the moment they butchered Icheb, staining the whole universe in meaningless bloodshed, it jumped the shark…

They killed off Icheb, Hugh and Bruce Maddox because they could. Trek was never about meaningless death and shocking imagery. There were so many pointless scenes with nothing but shock value: Icheb was the worst, but I also didn’t like the Admonition suicide orgy, the green-blooded Romulan head chopping, the GoTesque murder of Bruce Maddox and blowing gazillions of Borg that could have been rehabilitated into space (with the rehabilitation process actually being a major plot point of the show!) This was all so cynical, GoT style shock for shock’s sake because audiences like it that way…

But I guess given his history with brooding westerns and Irish mobster stories, Colm Meaney would actually feel at home in this show…

And don’t get me started on the pointless swearing, drinking, smoking, pot-smoking and the money issue…

It’s simply not the feel-good Trek I always prefered.

Last edited 1 month ago by Garth Lorca

They went ‘donnie brasco’ with him when he was undercover in the orion syndicate

I wonder if their ever will be a spin-off show of DS9? I sure hope so. I don’t think Avery Brooks would ever come back but I think Meaney might(if the pay is right of course) They could fit him in Lower decks or Picard. So he has options open I guess.

Its a damn shame Aron Eisenberg died because I would have loved to have seen a Captain Nog show.

What would it take for you to reprise XY role? Actor: money!

I’d like to know why O’brien was demoted when he joined Deep Space 9. He had two pips on Enterprise…but only one on DS9, later I think it was changed to a little square pip.

According to Memory Alpha it seems that the creators changed their mind about O’Brien’s background during TNG’s run. He was sometimes treated as a commissioned officer, but at other times referred to as enlisted personal. By the time he left TNG and joined DS9 the producers had settled on him being enlisted personal.

I like the concept of non commissioned officers on the ship, something Nick Meyer I believe brought into the fold in TWOK.

I hope/believe the massive tribute to Miles O’Brien is an Easter Egg. He will show up to save the universe.
I’m always waiting for the announcement of a new DS9 production. Not only I want to catch up with Miles, but also with all the others.

We have new series, new characters. Now will be the best time to bring Ira and his DS9 creative team, to continue the story.

Avery may not be available, René and Aron will be missed, but there is so much they can do with DS9.

This is the perfect time to bring them onboard. If they could bring Ira and some of the original writers, I know will be a huge success.

Looks like Colm Meany has more class than Patrick Stewart and Jeri Ryan. Good on him.

If any of you have seen Colm Meaney in Stargate Atlantis, you would have to agree that his portrayal of Cowan, a ruthless, backstabbing bastard was excellent. My suggestion, then, of his return to Miles O’brien on Picard is this…
While teaching at the Academy, O’brien’s family is killed by an unknown person or group. The investigation by Starfleet is sidelined by Commadore Oh. Miles is furious with Starfleet and decides to search for the killers himself (perhaps he steals a ship?) which results in his arrest and an upcoming court martial. He escapes, gets a ship, and continues to search for his family’s killers…a much darker Miles O’brien, with a warrant and several bounties on his head.
Picard and his new crew run into Miles which results in a dramatic confrontation, Miles believing that Picard is a representative of Starfleet out to bring him back. Picard convinces him otherwise and blah-blah-blah, O’brien and Picard become united in the search for the killers.
Several things are possible with this scenario. Perhaps Oh was complicit with the murders…if not complicit, turned a blind eye for whatever reason. Maybe O’brien was actually the target because of something he discovered but his family was at the wrong place at the wrong time. I understand that this family killed/revenge formula is used too often but it would be a good fit for the show.

Just do a video cameo that he could film himself at home. Have a scene where Picard needs another favour from Riker, have him contact Starfleet academy for some reason, have O’Brien answer, and dismiss him with “I have nothing to say to you, Riker. I think you know why.” 😏

Forgot that miles sat in on the first TNG poker game