Sonequa Martin-Green Responds To ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Critics; Says No Endgame Planned Yet

While she was in London to help launch Paramount+ in the UK Sonequa Martin-Green talked about how she and others hear what some critics have to say, and she also discussed the long-term plans for the series which just began shooting its fifth season.

Sonequa to critics: “I get it”

In an interview with the UK’s Radio Times Sonequa Martin-Green mostly talked about season four, which was newly released with the UK launch of Paramount+, but they did cover some other topics including being asked about criticism of how the series is different than other Star Trek shows. And Martin-Green welcomed the opportunity to discuss this issue:

I love talking about this because let’s be real… We are very different than other iterations. And we had to find ourselves. We had to find our identity and settle into it. And the fact that we are hyper-serialized; the fact that we have sort of reinvented ourselves over and over and over again, and I have to shout out our writers for that. There are a lot of changes. Because the fan base for the franchise as a whole, and the fan base for Discovery in particular, it’s a highly intellectual loyal crowd. These are very intelligent people who have such a depth of passion and heart and loyalty to the franchise. And so they have an ownership. They’ve carried it with them for years. And it’s meant a lot to them for years. And so because of that, their voices, I think, deserve to be heard. And we appreciate their voices, even if they are in disagreement with us. Even if they’re criticizing, but I get where you’re coming from, though, because this means a lot to you.

And it’s hard to be different with something like this. And it was hard for us to be different. But I think we’ve really found ourselves and I think our fan base has really found their sort of relationship with us as well, at this point. That’s not to say that we’re robots and that we don’t care when we hear somebody being really angry about something that we’ve done. It’s like, “Oh, man, that sucks.” But at the same time, we’re like, “Yeah, but we understand where you’re coming from.” And then there are many people who are like, “But I love the changes.” There’s so many different perspectives. And isn’t that the whole point is to serve as so many perspectives. That’s, that’s the whole part of diversity and inclusion. Everybody’s got to be represented. So I get it and I hear you, but maybe you’ll change your mind. And if not, you’re allowed. It’s all good.

No endgame yet?

Due to concerns over Paramount+ PR retribution, Martin-Green couldn’t say much about season five which just began filming:

Mums the word. A Taser will come from the ceiling and get me… I know that it’s going to be great. And I mean that. I can tell you that. [laughs] Lots more discovery. I can tell you that too.

But when asked about the long-term future of the series and if there had been any discussions with the executive producers about an “endgame” for Discovery, she was a bit more open, saying:

Well, the show is definitely rolling forward, thankfully. But, there haven’t been talks about the endgame yet. We talk a lot about things that we still want to see, or at least they share with me ideas that they have. I talk about things that I would like to see – not just with Burnham but with others and with the story as a whole. So there is forward-thinking, absolutely. And there’s foresight being applied, absolutely. But thankfully, we’re not having endgame conversations yet.

Martin-Green also talked about how she would be up to follow in the footsteps of Sir Patrick Stewart (and Kate Mulgrew) and return to the franchise decades after the series wraps:

Absolutely. And our beloved Kate Mulgrew is back now as well, lending her genius to our animated world. I appreciate the the opportunities that both Sir Patrick and Kate have had to come back, because they are just as loved today as they ever were. Perhaps more, probably more loved. They’re legendary! And so to have them back and to have them back in a new way is very exciting to us, and then to everybody who loves the show. So yeah, I would. I love Michael Burnham. That would be really cool if I could come back in 30 years. God willing we’re all good to go 30 years from nowand still watching TV.

Kate Mulgrew and Sonequa Martin-Green in London at Paramount+ UK launch event on June 20th

Watch it

Here is the full video interview with Radio Times.

All four seasons of Star Trek: Discovery are now available in the UK on Paramount+.

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Discovery hasn’t seemed like the “flagship” series for Star Trek ever since SNW premiered.

That’s your problem. SNW is kiddie hour compared to Disco.

SNW is well written, directed and produced. Discovery has become a bad joke.

Sure kid sure

Preach bro preach!

SNW is actually good Star Trek. Discovery is an embarrassment with convoluted badly written storylines and melodrama with more crying than you find on Young and the Restless.

Wow, I just defended you from that attack from Kevin from Melbourne, and now you go to this level of hating on this show?

I am a disappointed in your comment here.

Lol don’t need ‘defending’ man. Haven’t seen his response but hey appreciate it at least. 👍

Why do you feel ‘dissapointed’ lol.
Are you my dad? Do I know you?!? Such a weird comment on a message board. It’s just my opinion on what I think is an awful show man. Awful!!! 🙄

And you never hated a Star Trek show or movie and expressed it before? Or any show or movie? Never??? Find that hard to believe bro.

Usually your negative comments DSC are more reasoned and thoughtful, that’s all.

No worries, it just kind of surprised me.


I’ve made maybe a dozen posts about this show total here because I just started posting here on and off in the last few weeks. And this is only the second Discovery article I even posted in since I started. But take my word for it, others have been much worse. 😆

Especially in my real stomping grounds on Trekcore and Reddit. I been in those places for years.I think you have me confused with someone else here.

Got it!

I’m too stupid to understand Discovery. It almost never makes sense. Characters frequently do things for no understandable reason. I’m sure it’s just my lack of comprehension.

SNW makes more sense, but it’s still beyond me most of the time. I prefer my SF dumbed down as much as possible (like, say, The Expanse).

No worries, we all have certain shows or books that we have to watch a second time to fully appreciate. Heck, James Clavell’s Shogun i’ve read three times over the years and I understand it more each time.

So I recommend a second viewing of it, and also look at the episode summaries online. It’s a complex show but it’s very rewarding once you get into it and fully understand it.

Keep plugging away at it, my friend, And don’t worry about asking questions here to others about anything on the series that you may be confused about. There are many of us here that are always happy to help a fellow Star Trek fan.

Don’t ever be too embarrassed to reach out for information from other fans — it takes a village!

That’s due to mostly bad writing and inconsistency, especially some of the character stuff.

Discovery has too much emotional
Incontinence. Crying and talking. Yawn, a show for fragile gen z kids

we would not have SNW if not for pike and co being introduced in s2.

Yeah it’s funny how hardly any fans are willing to give Discovery credit for spinning off strange new worlds. I mean everybody and their uncle is fine with admitting that law and order spun off Law and order SVU, so it’s preposterous that so fans refuse (or deliberately ignore) to give DSC the same acknowledgment as being the parent series of SNW???

It’s like purposeful, forgetful memory. Lol

SNW = 9 (of 10)
DIS = 2 (of 10)

Prove otherwise. DIS is a soppy cry-fest which has to show you what emotions to feel. Contrary to that, SNW sets the tone through better writing and execution. The script drives the drama, evokes the feels.

Do you cuddle a teddy bear whilst watching it? Maybe it suits you simple minded needs…

I just fell asleep in SNW 1×08… Since DSC season 3 and especially season 4 I fell asleep various times or started to watch at the phone… Until the last 2 episodes I was always wondering “when does the story start?”…
I rewatched season 1 a few weeks ago and notice how I missed it. In season 2 I am at least pleased to see Capt. Pike.

SNW is so good, if TNG was the new existing series right now, SNW would be taking over flagship status for TNG as well. It’s that good. The only Trek series I like to this level are DS9 and TOS.

SNW is better than TNG — there, I said it! Sue me! LOL

So your point is moot.

Why would anyone take offense over that? That’s your opinion and sounds very reasonable to me, especially if you’re not a big TNG fan. It’s my favorite show but it’s not everyone’s either nor has to be.


I agree with you. TNG has made some excellent episodes — I love “The Measure of a Man,” “Yesterday’s Enterprise,” and “Darmok” — but I find most of the characters bland and dull. I love Data, of course — I think pretty much everybody loves Data :-) — and I like Worf, even though I dislike macho guys in real life. Data and Worf had personality, had flavor. Everyone else just seemed cardboard. Well, okay, I guess Picard seemed authentically grumpy and joyless. :-)

On SNW, even the characters we haven’t seen much of feel REAL. Ortegas hasn’t had a focus episode yet, but even with her being just a minor character so far, she feels like an actual person, far more of one than say, Beverly Crusher. I watched Beverly Crusher for six seasons, and yet she never felt as real to me as Ortegas feels after only TEN EPISODES.

They are just doing an amazing job with Strange New Worlds! The stories and messages feel authentically Trekkian, and the characters feel like actual people. There’s SO much talent and heart and love being poured into this show, and the result is just outstanding!

Correct. It will overtake it. Serialization has hurt Disco. Turns out, making Star Trek like any other serialized TV show isn’t a good model for growing the brand. The overwhelmingly positive response to SNW proves that.

Serialized TV worked IMHO in Enterprise season 3, DS9, and should have been used in VOY. (Having said that, I still find VOY highly rewatchable)

I don’t think it’s a one size fits all proposition.

They are just different. Disco is a melodrama, SNW is whatever TNG/TOS was. Disco is able to execute its purpose without always having to be logical or entertaining, while SNW needs to have those to work.

Much of Discovery S4 felt like they were spinning their wheels until they ran out the episode clock to fit 3 hours of story into 13 episodes. Serialization has never worked well for Discovery. If SNW shows them anything, it is that an episodic structure with serialized elements can work really well if you do it right.

That’s the issue. Well said. But for me, DSC’s arcs have at least worked a tad better than PIC’s.

It’s a mistake having to cook up a new arc for every season. It feels unnatural. Arcs either happen as they did for TWOK-TVH, DS9 S6-7 or ENT S3, or they are superfluous gimmicks.

Season 4 actually started out OK but then became a tedious bore with the usual plot gaps and bad melodrama that has enough story for maybe 8 episodes and not 13. This show is just really really bad.

“We’ve really found ourselves”?? What does she mean? I enjoyed the first two seasons way more than the latter two. I’d say they’ve actually lost themselves. But at least she’s right about crediting the writers.

Not salty, just done. Ready for Post TNG ear new Trek, because that whole 31st century (or 32nd, I don’t even remember) doesn’t work for me.

I agree…I enjoyed the first two seasons, bur 3 & 4 were just terrible. Thet have this formula where they build up drama, and then conclude everyrhing in one trite little lat episode. Its thw=e writers; they are self indulgent, and don’t see that things aren’t working. Michael is boring, sappy and melodramatic at every turn. I just don’t care about her, and all her emotional baggage. Other characters have some potential to shake things up. Lets start focusing on those.

Rebooting the show in a new time period at least got rid of some of the awful canon issues but it hasn’t changed it’s bad story structure and nonsensical plot twists.

I want more 24th/25th century Trek in the future too. The great things about Discovery now it’s so far in the future is you can totally ignore it and it won’t have any affect on canon most fans cares about in the 23rd and 24th century.

That’s the thing. Disc’s “badness” was really not about canon violations or lack of attention to established history. At least not to me. It could get annoying at times but I could live with it.

Disc’s issue has always been lousy, lazy, forced writing. It’s not “too political” (older Trek was way more so) and not “too woke.” It’s just not any good.

Just goes to show how varied opinions can be. Disco founds its sea legs in season three, and nailed it with season four in my opinion, and the first two seasons show a lot of growing pains to me.

Seasons 1 and 2 of Discovery were very entertaining for me. There were some things that I disagreed with, like the change to the Klingons or the site-to-site transporting being overused within the ship, but I let it slide because the show was very entertaining, and I couldn’t wait to see what happened in the next episode.

Since they went to the 32nd century, it is completely unrecognizable as Star Trek for me and the season long narrative feels too drawn out into rudderless episodes that should be ending with a big twist or cliffhanger to make me want to tune in the next week, but don’t.

It’s unfortunate that Sonequa Martin-Green needs to defend the bad choices made about the show. I certainly don’t blame her. I don’t even blame the writers. All the blame must go to the person running the show. The current showrunner has really ruined the show completely for me. They need to go watch other successful serialized shows and pay attention to what got people to tune in each week for more and to also watch some Star Trek to refresh their memory of what it is.

I sure hope there is no endgame. I love Discovery’s formula. I feel it’s the most original and innovative right now. It’s the best live action series and still has potential to tell weird and bizarre stories and not rely too much on mining TOS or TNG characters.

It’s the best trek currently.

How did you get Paramount+ to sell you a subscription to only Discovery?

A34 is just here to troll.

Well that explains it! 😆

I thought this guy was a producer on Discovery or something. Even if you like the show who in their right mind think it’s the ‘best’ after the snoozefest that was season 4.

So liking a show means you are trolling?

I don’t think.

Apparently, you have to badmouth a show and completely dislike it… yet continue to watch so you can moan about it some more… to not be a troll.

Indeed DSC has a lot of potential but it isn’t used.
They have the spore drive and can jump anywhere. Why not revisit the gamma and delta quadrant? Or try to reach other galaxies (which was hypotetically possible until the writers came to the idea to limit it)? They had the same potential like Stargate Universe (which I liked a lot because it was different, but failed unfortunately).

I agree that they need to take chances and go to say the Gamma Quadrant or even leave the galaxy again. I want them to jump to unknown places in the galaxy. In fact I want all the shows to go to unknown places. While S3 of Disco wasn’t my cup of tea, I did enjoy the 10-C story. It was different and had a ST: Motion Picture vibe to it. Since they are in the 32nd Century, I hope they continue to show us new aliens but also new tech and ships.

I too love Discovery’s formula and find it the most compelling and relatable. The stories have depth and speak to larger social issues while the overarching themes fit into the Star Trek ethos. Every show cannot be the same, all problems cannot be solved within an hour timeframe (allowing breaks for commercials) and technobabble does not always solve everything. I appreciate characters who are human and flawed finding their best selves and the courage within to approach seemingly insurmountable problems. I have loved every iteration of the Star Trek franchise, and each has had much to say about the social conditions of the eras in which they were produced, but Discovery, I feel, fits today’s world and mirrors today’s challenges while pointing towards hope the way TOS often did. Of all the shows on broadcast and streaming television platforms, it is unique yet remains quintessentially Star Trek.

As critical as I’ve been over the years, I’ve always noticed their efforts to fix stuff, and I’ve appreciated it. It’s a great cast, and it looks terrific. But while it doesn’t always work for me, I can’t deny there’s a passion on their end, and I’ll always respect the show for that. (More like that recent season finale with the science, thanks. 😉)

Totally great comment from someone who the show does not work for.

Yes! That’s so true. DSC has tried everything to fix up issues that didn’t work, albeit also creating some new ones along the way.The only main issue still standing is the arc-based format that doesn’t really work for any Trek on a regular basis. If it’s the exception to the rule like DS9 or ENT S3 it can work but if they have to come up with a new arc every season, it feels forced…

DS9 and ENT both had a meta-story to tell across all their seasons (“Bajor joins the Federation” and the Dominon War for the former; “formation of the Federation” and “maturing of Earth” for the latter).

Discovery has had none of that. Each season is entirely self-contained, and the series changed completely after season two. Ultimately, this is the problem.

The lack of really compelling characters, unrealistic emoting, fantasy-like plotlines, and over-politicization don’t help.

“I feel your pain”. The insincerity really shows through all of her comments. She definitely does *not* get it. More to the point, Discovery’s awful showrunner and writers don’t get it.

What a load of BS. It’s fine to be critical, but there is no need to besmirch the reputation and intent of actors who are on record as being positive nice, people. Charging her with being insincere is just totally uncalled for, dude.

I’ve been to a convention where she spoke, waited in line and watcher her talk to fans, then met her briefly for a photo op — of all the Trek actors I have met over the years, she is the friendliest, most positive one I have ever met. I did not detect one iota of falseness, sarcasm or negativity from her…unlike your comment here, I might add.

Well, it’s much more the writers / producers fault than hers. Her performance of a complex, multi-dimensional character in Season 1 thrilled me. But I’ve been disheartened by her character ever since.

You can’t get on the actors case too much. Most just get the scripts and play along. The show is mostly dire because of the writers and producers making a bad show and no one seems to have any idea on how to improve it no matter how many times they changed it.

You really are an expert! The show is in it’s 5th season! They don’t spend millions on a series that is not popular. Your trolling on of how bad it is is so 2020. I’d say move on and let the rest of us enjoy what you so obviously hate.

Dude, I think you are being too hard on TG1701 — he doesn’t deserve that.

That being said, you are correct in that this show has a huge audience — it’s significantly expanded the overall Trek audience to a younger generation, much more so than the other shows to date in my opinion. It just so happens that the majority of the old school Trek fans don’t really like the show, and they are the ones that typically post and vote on all of fan sites, so that provides an artificial, “they sky is falling/DSC sucks” vibe that is not consistent with the many, many fans who like the show and pay P+ and other services because DSC brought then into this franchise.

It’s all good. Older hardcore fans can dislike the show, while you, I and many others can keep enjoying this obviously successful series season after season. And I can’t wait for the next spinoff, given how successful DSC was in spinning off SNW.


Thanks bro! 😄🖖

People watch the Transformer movies too. 😜 Those make billions of dollars and they suck. But I watched all of those too. 🙄

Actually Bumblebee was decent.

Not an expert, just giving my opinion why I feel the show sucks like others here.. but you disagree. That’s cool.

I don’t understand how people can still feel so offended in this day and age discussing movies and TV shows on a message board? We’re all fans, it doesn’t mean we will be fans of it all. That said I’m hoping season 5 will make me like it more.

I won’t lie, it still bothers me when people criticize DS9 or TNG a lot lol. Because those are my biggest favorites. It used to really bother me when TOS was criticized too. But yes, I understand people will just have different opinions. Never offended over it and yes we’re all fans, that doesn’t mean you can’t be critical of it either. There is a line between tough love and toxicity though but with this board is much closer to the former; especially compared to Star Wars fandom today.

I do think people are overly harsh on Kurtzman, moreso than Berman was. Yeah people were harsh on him too, but that really wasn’t until the end of his tenure. That’s all people think about today. But he went a full decade until the complaints really started. George Lucas went two decades before fandom finally turned on him. But people been hating Kurtzman since 2009 lol. And depend where you go it’s only gotten worse. And he still gets the wrap he doesn’t ‘understand’ Star Trek which is pretty ridiculous at this point.

But if you didn’t like the Kelvin movies and then Discovery and THEN Picard, it’s going to be harder to climb out of that box too even if his later shows are bigger hits like PRO, LDS and SNW seems to be. But it also proves the fandom isn’t toxic either because they can still praise what they like. That proves fans aren’t out to just hate Discovery just to hate it, many just think its sucks. There is a difference. ;)

And I also agree, I’m hoping to like season 5 as well…but I am kind of giving up on the show at this point unfortunately.

You bring up a good point – It is contrastingly weird how Berman stayed on to long, but Kurtzman is improving with time.

If Berman had simply retired at the point when first contact came out, he’d be so much more revered. But insurrection, nemesis and Enterprise nearly killed the franchise, and his reputation took a major hit, and deservedly so.

I still love the Berman era more than Kurtzman but he could’ve let someone like Manny Coto run Enterprise from the start. That was the only show I didn’t like at the beginning. Nemesis is also still my worst film today though.

Props to her for addressing the elephant in the room. I really like her as a person, despite my general dislike of her character. She sends out positive energy that I find compelling. The problem (in my opinion) is that Discovery was horribly flawed from its conception. I blame Fuller for this. He had a horrible vision that his successors have been trying to fix from the start. Sonequa points out that they have tried to change, but it is with mixed results. I do believe Strange New Worlds has locked onto the right formula. Maybe if the Discovery producers could adapt to a more episodic format with serialized character development it could be better received. My wish is for that format for a Picard successor as well. Then we would have the magic formula in three time periods…

 I blame Fuller for this. He had a horrible vision that his successors have been trying to fix from the start.

I think you’re truly on to something there. Fuller apparently wanted an anthology series, and that’s been one of the show’s flaws from the start. As I noted above, DS9 and ENT both had series-long narratives, and each season furthered those narratives. (VOY did, too, but it ignored the series-long narrative it set up, to its detriment.)

Discovery has been a patchwork all along. It’s flitted from Klingons (badly re-envisioned) in season one, to AI in season two, to a jump to the future, etc. The seasons don’t fit together into a coherent whole, and yes, I think the anthology vision, however much it got altered, is the root cause.

You got it backwards. The show was just awesome is S1 and S2, but because they made the mistake of “listening to the fans” whining about it on the internet, they gave us more standard Trek in the 32nd century, and the show is sort of watered down now — it’s still good, but it’s no long “great.”

The show needs to get back to it’s great roots — Michael under severe pressure, corrupt Federation personnel, mirror universe connections, connections with 23rd century, crazy cool Klingons, Section 31, and Michael nearly single-handily saving the day.

Nothing was broke on the show. All of you who constantly criticized what was a great show in it’s first two seasons got us into the series being not as good now. Thank you so much (not!).

Have to sorely disagree. All the things you liked, I hated lol. I didn’t mind the Mirror Universe stuff, but I think they should take a break from that for awhile.

And there was PLENTY broke on this show IMO. Much more out off the previous shows in fact; hence why they changed it so much.

Don’t worry, they’re probably listening to all of you again and will likely make further changes to water it down from the kickass non-standard Trek series it once was. Lol

I like the changes today compared to first season even with my issues. That’s still one of my worst seasons of Star Trek for me. But I know people like you like it. That’s always the issue though when a show like Discovery is divided so much in fandom. I was fine with the direction in season 2. It was at least feeling more like Star Trek with more fun and trippy stories. So I don’t think it was all bad, just more of a balance.

But I liked all the changes today as well, the show’s main issue is still the writing unfortunately. I think they need to replace the show runner more than anything. She has made the show too melodramatic and not enough story. Season 4 should’ve been my favorite, it was finally feeling more like Star Trek and but it felt tedious and dragged.

I agree with you 100%. S1/2 was wild and trippy and fresh. I want them to get back to that. I hate how the producers are trying to please fans. It’s why new trek is so familiar and safe now. And frankly watered down. SNW is an example of a fresh show but afraid to take chances.

Exactly !!!

Let Discovery be Discovery again !!!

I disliked the time jump of seasons 3-4, but I would hardly describe seasons 1-2 as “just awesome.” In particular, the tease of Lorca as a morally ambiguous captain, only to have the series tell us, “ha ha, it’s all a joke: he’s from the mirror universe” was just about the biggest letdown I can think of in all of Star Trek.

To each his own, I absolutely loved that reveal.

Fuller hurt the show from the jump by running with those designs. When I read about the fact that he didn’t want cylinder-like nacelles on ships and pushed for more and more of an alien look for the Klingons (I actually like Disco Klingons but the best looking one I’ve seen so far was when Glenn Hetrick played a Klingon on L’Rell’s D7 at the end of season 2 – that was the perfect Klingon in my opinion) it was too easy for fans who didn’t want a new regime to hate it. Discovery doesn’t need to be episodic just because that works for SNW. It goes against what the show is and is so 2 dimensional thinking when fans feel they know better just because they enjoyed SNW.

Let EACH Trek series be what they’re supposed to be and allow them to freakin grow. That’s how they get better. Season 4 felt like it finally found its legs in being a more mature, serialized Trek show while also bringing in the familiar Trek science/problem-solving with the anomaly. That ending and the character moments throughout the season mixed with the usage of the AR Wall and improved cinematography really has me pumped for where the show is going. Let SNW be the Trek comfort food because it’s doing a great job at it, but let Discovery be the leap forward utilizing modern storytelling tools and aesthetics. And for crying out loud can people be a little more respectful when criticizing the show??? Like these are people who are working hard despite whatever “you” spew at them from behind the safety and discretion of your keyboard. There’s no reason for some of the harshness I’ve seen coming from Trekkies, of all people.

I really really like Sonequa. I just wish I liked Michael Burnham half as much as I like Sonequa

Same. I actually like the actress but her character is awful.

She has a lot of grace for the way she addresses issues like this, it’s unfortunate that she even has to, it’s not her responsibility. I feel the same way about Jodie Whittaker always having to defend Doctor Who’s divisive writing when she should just be able to talk about how fun it is. The actors aren’t part of any writing issues and I do feel for them when they get dragged into discussions where they have little choice but to put on a smile and defend the mothership in their various ways.

I am not really sure what Fuller was thinking when he came up with the first 5-6 episodes of Disco S1. I actually enjoyed the first 30 mins of E1 S1, then IMHO things went completely downhill.

Overall I like the cast, but the one story arc per season serialized format really pigeon holes the series. If the story stinks, then the whole season goes down the drain. 2-3 story arcs per season would really help.

I am looking forward to seeing what is in store for S5, but for now IMHO, the biggest and most important legacy of Discovery is that it helped pave the way for Short Treks, Picard, SNW and the animated LDs and Prodigy.

I actually enjoyed the first 30 mins of E1 S1, then IMHO things went completely downhill.

Likely because those first 30 minutes featured a likeable — yet fresh, captain — first officer, and science officer.

They should’ve never let Fuller had complete control. He wanted to make Star Trek version of BSG and it was dire with the awful orc Klingons and making Burnham a mutineer. It only went downhill from there.

I liked that approach because it was that how VOY could have been.
It did fit as a “Next Generation” of Enterprise but it wasn’t consistent was later (earlier) series.
Maybe if the show had been placed in a not THAT distant future from the federation after the fall
which needed to be rebuilt from the scratch, it could have worked. That would have explained inconsensties and allow the design to be partially outdated and partially advanced than the 24th century. Or maybe as a ship and a crew which evolved from a crew of the era of Enterprise, after being stranded in another part of the Galaxy, thus having evolved differently from the federation. The altered klingons simply would have been another warrior race.

Uh, Fuller didn’t have complete control. He left long before the pilot was filmed, didn’t he? Also, wasn’t a bunch changed?

A mutineer, you mean like SPOCK?

Four seasons in and Discovery is still a train wreck. 🙄

Every season it actually starts out pretty strong but then ends in convoluted and head shaking ways. The people running this show probably means we’ll but they have no idea on how to make a compelling serialized drama. Season 4 was so tedious and bad I wanted to just stop watching by episode 10.

I don’t think this show will ever improve. I’ll keep watching because I’m a fan but I stopped expecting it to be good. But as much as I think Kurtzman is a hack I have to admit LDS, PRO and SNW are great shows. But he probably has way less influence on the shows like he did Discovery.

All you do is bash. No one takes that seriously

Nonsense bro! I have said many times when I thought the show was good. You’re reading one article. But yeah it’s been way more bad these days. That’s why so many are bashing it now.

If you can’t take my posts seriously keep scrolling then. I don’t know you or care.

I just have two things to say about Discovery: flame shooters and spark generators.

Let’s not pretend there weren’t sparks on other Star Trek shows. Voyager was awash with them anytime they got hit by something.

What about… huggs?

please stop acting like that’s something to criticize when it’s happened on all of Trek that actually had some sort of a budget

The flames are super dumb. It’s not a Whitesnake concert.

I hated the random steam/smoke back in the Voyager days, too.

I loved the fourth season, so if they can keep making a show I enjoy that much then I’m for it run and run and run.

And even when I disliked the show, I always liked Martin-Green. She just seems like a lovely person.

Same. I enjoyed earlier seasons while pointing out what I wasn’t crazy about but I really, really liked season 4

I’m glad! Here’s hoping we’re both similarly pleased with the fifth.

The show will not age well…so no, don’t want to see you decades later….

Well i and other Trekkies do.

Serialization is not the problem. Bad writing and bad pacing is the problem. But luckily, now we have SNW which is lightyears (pun intended) better than Discovery.

But the serialization aspect is probably what creates those problems. The pacing issue is bad because they are trying to stretch stories they can tell in 2-3 episodes into 13. And this is not just a Discovery issue alone. The Star Wars and Marvel shows on Disney+ have been criticized for the same and there are way less episodes to boot.

It’s why SNW is just so much better. It’s not trying to stretch their stories out. They can come with a story and have a beginning middle and end and come up with something completely new next week. I think DIS will probably be a better show if they could switch up formats. And I always bring up the fact if you compare Discovery’s best episodes by fandom, it’s not a shock it’s the more episodic ones fans point to like “Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad’, ‘New Eden’ or ‘If Memory Serves’.

But I also agree, it’s not being serialized alone that is the problem either. But it is a big one.

Enterprise Season 3 worked IMO well. They had around 15-18 episodes focussing heavily on the Xindi-Plot and some stand-alone episodes to fill a whole season. I thought the reason of having a season with reduced episodes to 13 was to leave off such stand-alone-episodes… Obviously not…

Fully agree about season 3 of Enterprise. How they did it worked VERY well and I didn’t feel frustrated when they wrapped it up like I have felt with 4 seasons of Discovery so far. Oddly though, I will say the season 4 finale of Discovery was its best one, but I was so checked out of the story by then, I sadly just stopped caring.

Enterprise did a great job of spreading around episodic stories within the Xindi story line. And yeah they had waaaaay more Xindi episodes and yet didn’t feel bored with it. Discovery had way less and it just felt like a slog by the end to me. It’s weird it’s only 13 episodes but a third of them still felt like filler. I’m actually happy that show is only getting 10 episodes next season now.

Episodic stories can have bad pacing too. Heck half the episodes of SNW S1 i felt had very uneven pacing and the writing felt a little rushed. Despite these mistakes in S1 i still enjoy the show but I’m not blind to the many faults that SNW has and yes Discovery has bad pacing at times too and well as stories that feel a little rushed.

I think they still were trying to find the right tone. Nothing wrong with experimenting and try different directions. While episides 6-9 weren’t that exciting like the first 5, I only found episode 8 boring. You can simply skip that episode and enjoy the rest when you have a rerun. But that doesnt work with Disco.

No SNW wasn’t perfect either, but being its first season was a really solid show, especially when compared to a lot of show’s first seasons like Discovery. I mean I absolutely LOVED the season finale of SNW. But Discovery first season finale felt so anti-climatic and rushed it ruined most of the season for me. Even if I hated the season finale of SNW, fortunately it being episodic just doesn’t affect the entire season like a serial show does and that’s why Discovery has its problems because EVERYTHING is so connected on that show. Same with issue with Picard.

You are entitled to your opinion, but what I watched over those 4 years of enterprise got progressively worse. There is a reason that fan‘s kept dropping the show year after year, and the downward trend continued in the supposedly better Manny Cotto years.

Enterprise was canceled when it just found the right tone. It came too late.
The reason is simply:

When Enterprise ended, it was part of 18 years non-stop-Star Trek and the viewers were tired, because it had the same style like previous series, while new series like BSG used a totally different, more realistic approach which MAYBE could have helped Enterprise. At least season 3 came close to it, when the ship wasn’t repaired and cleaned on the next episode and the crew had to fight to survive. It also could have suited Voyager. Only “Year of hell” came close to that.
When DSC started, the viewers were hungry for some new Trek on TV after 12 years. And i found season 1 very exciting. It had the grit of BSG and felt like a sequel to ENT.

Agreed! I think Enterprise got only better with every season. I can’t say the same for Discovery.

They needed to take a few years off after Voyager. Even I was just tired of Star Trek by then and partly why I stopped watching. Now I have to always make this clear if I liked Enterprise more from the start I would’ve kept watching but after 15 years, I just didn’t have the patience anymore like a lot of fans did for it to improve like the other shows. At that point I just didn’t care as much.

I have loved S4 and the previous seasons of Discovery. It’s my favorite of all the current shows and to me it will always be the flagship show of the franchise until it ends which is when i expect SNW to take over. Speaking of SNW i have found the show to be great and i like the show but i don’t enjoy it as much as i enjoy Discovery. At the end of the day both are great shows.

It’s definitely not the flagship these days.

It is as it’s the main Trek show of the current lot of shows.

Heck a member of the Paramount PR team commented on the marketing done in the UK for Paramount+ release there and was asked by a commenter why Discovery was part of the main advertising campaign over having SNW.

He respond saying that Discovery was in the advertising campaign cause despite the positive reception of SNW that Discovery was still the highest viewed Star Trek show yes it had even more viewers than SNW.

That is the reason why Discovery is flagship show and they said that it will continue to be the main show until it ends.

Heck even Alex Kurtzman has said Discovery is still the flagship so i would believe him more than you sorry.

Hey dude, please provide me your address so I can mail you a gold star and a cookie to congratulate you on this. Lol

I watched the entire video and I agree with most of SMG points! She’s right, this show has reinvented itself over and over again because they are trying so desperately to make it work. That’s a GOOD thing. I know a lot of fans wasn’t happy with it and they also know it had its own problems in the beginning with the crazy change overs. But that was no different then most of the shows frankly, especially TNG, DS9 and ENT. They ALL started out with fans greatly skeptical of them and they all eventually found their groove (sadly too late for ENT), although YMMV with each of them even now.

So in that sense DIS is not any different than the other shows. I have said this many times. As much as people think DIS is being treated unfairly, it’s not. We just live in a more hyper connected wold today and opinions are distributed on a higher level. I always point out when Enterprise was cancelled YouTube didn’t exist yet. Social media was in its infancy.

Now all that said, yeah I’m still personally very disappointed with this show. By the fourth season I grew to love all the previous shows. This is the first one that didn’t happen. And sorry I have to blame the show. It just isn’t very good IMO. It’s better, but still far from great. But I see they are trying. They are really really trying lol. SMG said the show being so different from the others is true, but I don’t think that alone is the problem. DS9 was also very different from the others and it’s that difference that made it really shine, because it was telling great stories and building characters in a way the others never did.

This show got its biggest reinvention/reboot in season 3 of course and I was excited about it. The show would not just get rid of its canon issues people like me moaned about but it can FINALLY be its own show and forge ahead in its own era or century. The only other show that got that advantage was TNG. That’s what they should’ve just done in the beginning. No more comparisons to TOS or fans yelling YOU CAN’T DO THAT IN THIS ERA! Now it can stand on its own in the 32nd century and that’s exciting to me; especially someone who has wanted a far future show (or at least from the 26th century on). And YET I still feel like they are squandering it.

Every season this show has had interesting ideas and I think season 4 was their BEST idea and yet it still comes up short for me season after season. I feel that’s mostly due to bad or lackluster writing. It’s been said the serialized nature of the show is hurting it and not helping. I wish they could at least shake that up a bit too since they been changing everything else.

Yeah, despite it’s MANY issues (and I reiterate MANY), a lot of the problems could have been mitigated with compelling stories and simply better writing.

Some say Burnham’s mutiny simply doomed her character, but other trouble makers like Ensigns Ro and Paris were redeemed – so why not Michael. Probably because we didn’t actually see their crimes and their actions didn’t end up resulting in their Captain being eaten by the Klingons. (Even though Worf talked about Klingons eating their enemies haha). And despite her limited airtime, it didnt help that Michelle Yeoh managed to make Captain Georgiou into a likeable Starfleet captain in just one episode.

That said, SMG has worked her tail off to get Burnham out of the collective doghouse and if you simply erase the 1st 5-6 shows of the series, the character is much more likeable. We shall see what comes next for Michael Burnham.

I know that the show particulaly targets racial and gender minorities and ultimately I hope it has broadened the overall Trek audience (the more the better). All that said, I too will continue to watch and I am looking forward to S5. Maybe 5th time will be the charm!

Making Burnham a mutineer was probably done to make the show feel ‘edgy’ at the time but I think that was a huge mistake. It put off many fans from the character and many still don’t like her today over it. I wasn’t in love with Burnham either after that but I do like her more today at least. And that is true about Ro and Paris but they also weren’t the star of the show either.

I don’t put any of the blame on SMG. She has really worked hard and speaks up for the show all the time. She is proud to be the first black woman of a Trek show as she should be.

My personal feelings of the show will probably be forever mixed but yeah it would be nice if season 5 changes my mind on it.

DSC could have get rid of canon issues too, if the show started in another part of the galaxy, were the crew had lost contact to the federation and evolved differently for 100 years or so…

But then that would’ve just been constant comparisons to Voyager and I don’t think they wanted that like the constant comparisons to TOS in its first two seasons. I think they wanted to finally just feel like their own show and it has felt that way since third season. I think the setting is great for the show, they just needs to do more with it.

How come SNW portrays diversity in a better way and this show doesn’t? And it’s had a 5 year head start…

How does SNW portray diversity better then Discovery?
SNW does not have a gay couple in the main cast nor does it have a non-binary character in the main cast.
Though rumors suggest that S2 will have introduce a gay character so that is a thumbs up representation but still fails where Discovery succeed.
I mean Discovery has won awards for their representation of the LGBTQIA community while SNW currently doesn’t have any yet.
Yes SNW had Jesse James Keitel and she was great but until SNW adds a gay couple to the main cast it again fails in diversity where Discovery succeeds.

Chapel is bisexual, per season one.

You are correct it’s not even close.

How does SNW portray diversity better then Discovery?

By showing a diverse crew *doing their jobs* as opposed to engaging in masturbatory dialog about how diverse they are. Exhibits A, B, and C are Adira and Gray: both terrible actors, the former with a tearful scene about how she’s choosing her pronouns, which is likely to date the show terribly in a decade or so. The writers seem to have cast the latter off the show.

Admittedly, I liked Stamets and Culber better.

I think “show and don’t tell” is the key. Star Trek was always diverse from the beginning. It just wasn’t a big thing.

Telling and not showing is big problem on Discovery overall.

Lol, people can criticize Discovery for all the right reasons but this is DOA and is way out there, my friend.

I love Strange New Worlds, Prodigy and Lower Decks more, to be honest, but I shall give season three of Picard and season five of Discovery a try. Though, the scores and theme tunes are what I love best about all generations of Star Trek.

It’s weird, that she has to defend the show. While I do think, Discovery fails as Star Trek Show or even a decent SciFi show, non of that is her fault. She didn’t write the terrible character she has to play through the most uninspired scripts in all of Hollywood. Sure, she could refuse to do so, but why would you Not want that paycheck? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Well she was asked the question and just naturally responded. And of course it’s not her fault, but she knows she is the face of this show. That’s why she’s there now. And most people probably couldn’t name a single writer or director on this show or most shows frankly, only us hardcore fans have any idea. So the actors are always the conduit even if their jobs are just to say their lines and emote correctly.

And she went through the same thing with The Walking Dead. People think Discovery is being raked through the coals, but fans bitterly complained about that show too when she was on it. Every season had the same amount of division or ire over the direction of the show and characters. And she would show up at Comic Con with the rest of the cast assuring the angry/cynical/suicidal fans they know everyone hasn’t been super happy with the show but promise changes were coming and next season will turn it all around lol. So this is not her first rodeo. ;)

A reporter would never (ever) ask that type of question to Sir Patrick. I think was very rude to ask that kind of question to Sonequa, not to the producers.

Funny thing is. he’s actually partially responsible for how terrible the Picard show is. So so he’d actually deserve the question.

Yes. He agreed to return to the franchise with one condition, to be an executive producer.

if the show has not fulfilled its potential by now then it will coast to season 5, 6 just like Voy did.

Voyager turned out to be the most successful Trek entry show for a generation.

Discovery is still the most viewed of the new shows.

Neither was my favourite in its cohort, but I have to give respect to their success.

I don’t know if I agree with you over Voyager TG47. Yes it’s more successful today but I think TNS is the one that is the most successful for all generations when it started and even today.

As I have said before, this show should have been just called Discovery and dropped all association of star trek from it. As a standalone scifi show it would of been good enough for the masses. Mostly fails as a Star Trek show.

Star Trek Discovery is the most Star Trek show out of all the current shows included SNW imo which again imo plays it safe with it’s stories.

While Discovery does it’s best to try new stories that haven’t been done in Trek and in S4 it showed a true alien species the 10-C.

Heck i find Michael Burnham to be the most human captain we have had in current Star Trek.

Like Sisko who is my favorite captain in Star Trek she isn’t afraid to express her feelings and talk to her crew about how she feels and invites her crew to talk to her about what they are feeling. Star Trek could use more Captains who are emotionally open to their crew.

10-C was a fantastic idea. Star Trek always had the potential to tell stories like Arrival, and it was nice to see it land. This was a huge improvement over “crying child blows up the galaxy’s warp cores.”

But as the writing giveeth, the writing also takes away.

The main problem with Burnham I think, is how all the characters around her are written. Burnham is always right. Those who disagree with her are always wrong. To Burnham’s credit, she doesn’t have a big ego about this, she is just steadfast in her beliefs.

But this results in character development being people who disagree with Burnham learning to agree with Burnham, which is some really shallow movement that limits the interesting character arcs to those that happen in the periphery. And it is hard to spend much time on the periphery because the main cast is much too large to do it well in 13-episode seasons. For example, it’s hard to point to Grey as a long overdue dose of diversity when their story was confined to a C-plot with them ultimately being put on a bus.

Very astute observation about how Burnham always has to be right on the show — correcting everyone from the lowliest crew members to the president of the Federation. This goes on and on without fail. For one thing, it’s completely unbelievable that any character is always right, and equally unbelievable that her superior officers and the president would keep putting up with this. Also, perfect characters are boring characters.

The creatives behind Star Trek hear certain segments of the fans, but that doesn’t mean they’re taking the right lessons from it. Whether it’s out of stubbornness or ignorance, I don’t know. As great as it is to have episodic Trek back with SNW, they’re still missing a lot of the issues that plague Discovery. The greatest hope is the overwhelmingly positive response that certain people in the know have given to Terry Matalas’s Picard Episode 3. I’m happy to leave Discovery behind if they can get SNW to actually explore and quit playing in such deep canonical territory as they did with the Gorn, Arena, and Balance of Terror. They just want to play in a TOS sandbox. It’s unimaginative and shallow, no matter how high the production value, no matter what character arc justifications they throw in. So we are “seen” but that doesn’t mean they’ll do anything with that. Oh.. and in no way do I think Senequia should bear the brunt of this. She was responding to something she shouldn’t have to. The state of modern Trek has nothing to do with her. She’s a sincerely great actress.

DSC is a mixed bag….often seems like too many ‘notes’ from producers and the story and script are a means to allow everyone to have their little idea in there.

for me pacing has always been the problem…if you’re gonna tell 1 story over the course of 12 episodes you gotta make it worth while. season 2 worked cause the premise had a built in structure that made 12 episodes logical. the DMA was a neat idea, but it really only had 4 episodes worth of story. PIC has the same problem, season 2 was awful with how long they spent in 21st century LA. i love serialized story telling, The Expanse did a great job balancing a satisfyingly episode within a larger arc…same with RDM and the rebooted BSG.

but be honest with yourself…..after that SNW finale pike & co. are best trek out there today (live action) and is anyone more excited for season 5 of DSC? nah i’m counting down the days till SNW season 2

Sonequa is terrific, but has been mostly wasted in this series. To their credit, the production team smartened up and allowed some characters to develop nicely (ie: Culber and Saru), but the virtue signalling, politics and sometimes awful writing compromise the show. Happily, there is SNW so now everone gets their fevorite type of Trek to enjoy.

A lot (not all) of these comments are exactly what’s wrong with the fandom right now…lol…all I can do is shake my head. I’m all for criticism and debate bc that’s what we do as fans but anytime Discovery is brought up, some of you lot feel the need to be down right angry and unfairly critical with lots of hyperbole for extra measure

Agreed. Some people have forgotten to just sit back and just enjoy the shows and see where the writers/stories take them.

I do criticize the shows i do that with all of them even my favorite ones but at the end of the day i don’t hate any of the shows they all have something i like and have something i don’t like.

I’m just happy to have Star Trek back and that everyone of the current shows are doing great with the majority of the fanbase. It’s a great time to be a Trekkie.

No offense but I find this argument disingenuous. Again this has been happening to Star Trek since TNG. EVERY spin off has gotten it to a degree. You only notice Discovery because we are currently discussing this show which you probably like or don’t remember or wasn’t around when the earlier shows started. But it’s funny how people act like shows like TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT was completely loved by the fanbase or something when that wasn’t the case. Yes they are all more loved TODAY but even shows like VOY and ENT still has its detractors; just a lot less now.

I was a HUGE Voyager and DS9 fan when the internet was becoming mainstream and trust me, people were very hateful of those shows at the time too. Voyager got it more. Of course many loved it like many love Discovery, but it was very mixed just like this show. DS9 got it a bit less but PLENTY of people didn’t even consider that show real Star Trek at the time because it went too far away from Roddenberry’s ‘vision’. At least people looked at Voyager as Star Trek. DS9 was the black sheep back then for many. When ENT came around that show was considered almost blasphemy to the franchise. All these shows had rough early seasons with the fanbase.

And of course the bigger irony is this site was born out of the Kelvin movies and trust me, you think there is acrimony over Discovery? Read these boards after the 09 film came out. It was very divided then too. And when STID came out, the place just fell into a black hole lol. It was nothing but bitter/cynical fans saying how the Abrams movies were an abomination to Star Trek and should just be erased from canon. Many still feel that way today. Even now when there is talk of another one you can see how many people just roll their eyes over over it and people saying it’s a waste of time to even continue making them.

So I wish some people can stop pretending it’s only one entity of the franchise that is being criticized. Star Trek has had these issues for well over 30 years now. We simply didn’t have the internet or sites like this one way back then. Today we do.

It’s not ‘right now’….it’s been this way for decades. The one positive is eventually every show and movie series become accepted by the majority of the fanbase. I don’t know if Discovery is yet because of its current issues but it probably will in time like the others if it isn’t now.

My ONLY problem with DISC has been that it didn’t live up to its name. If you are going to be called STAR TREK: DISCOVERY, it should be about exploration of the unknown. I am glad that the showrunners have FINALLY got that, this past season. The only thing that can make it better, is that Captain Burnham cried a little less, and spoke up more. Oh, and have the other cast of characters contribute more to the story, particularly the Bridge Crew.

SNW hasn’t lived up to it name either. There isn’t any worlds i find strange in the show.

A couple of ‘New’ worlds sure but most are nearly copies of civilizations we have seen in the past shows.

At least with Discovery with the 10-C they go with something new and never seen before in Trek.

SNW plays with stories that are too safe and Discovery is the show that takes the most risks with stories and i love them for that.

At the end of the day both shows are great and enjoyable in their own way.

SNW hasn’t lived up to it name either. There isn’t any worlds i find strange in the show.

The names

Star Trek: The Final Frontier
Star Trek: These are the voyages
Star Trek: Enterprise
Star Trek: Where no man has gone before

Have already been given.

Maybe: the next shows “Star Trek: to boldly go” and “Star Trek: to seek out new life and new civilizations”
will live up to it’s name. ;-)

A couple of ‘New’ worlds sure but most are nearly copies of civilizations we have seen in the past shows.

Just like a lot of new worlds in past shows were copies of past and present civilizations on earth ;-)

For me, Discovery is a mixed bag. I will say that I enjoy it much more than Picard, but Strange New Worlds has hit it out of the park from the beginning.

That said… if SNW was the first new Trek series to debut on CBS All Access, I would argue that it would be *far* more criticized, and the complaints would be that it was 1) a prequel 2) “destroying” canon and 3) a “safe” retread of what has been done before. Honestly, I think the series has been well-received mostly because of its *contrast* to DSC and PIC, rather than simply on its own merits. In other words, if DSC hadn’t introduced the new Pike and Spock first and provided a solid backstory that SNW could build upon, SNW would not have been the highly-praised show that it is now. It just wouldn’t.

Getting back to DSC… I’d rank the seasons this way:

Season 1: A mixed bag, but I loved the Mirror Universe as it is presented here, and I’m glad the show was willing to embrace some unexpectedly dark directions. I actually liked the Klingon redesign, as their look was more alien and their costumes were breathtaking.

Season 2: Solid arc story with few instances of the plot “spinning its wheels.” New Pike and Spock and their backstory was compelling, and the season finale is arguably one of the best in Trek history, if not *the* best. Absolutely gripping.

Season 3: Deserves way more love than it gets, and is probably negatively colored by the explanation behind The Burn, which I thought was inventive and unexpected, yet thematically in keeping with the issues of trauma and empathy that the season explored in depth. I would have thrown a shoe at the TV if it was Yet Another Big Bad. Thankfully, it wasn’t. Also, props to SMG for her performance in the first episode. She had to convincingly express a wide array of emotions in that single hour, and I thought her performance was Emmy-worthy. Also, the introduction of Gray and Adira’s story was heart-rending, and a perfect example of how inclusion should be a natural outgrowth of a solid story. Too bad they didn’t know what to do with them the following season.

Season 4: The overall concept behind Species 10C and the crew’s challenges of learning about their existence, their behavior and their communication is right up there with some of the best classic SF tales. The writing team *nailed it* with that. Unfortunately, the remainder of the season is drug down by multiple episodes that tread water in order to fill out the 13 episodes (the story would have been a tightly-told tale in 8). The Grey/Adira story is forced and goes nowhere, Stamets is transformed from a sharp-tongued, cranky genius into an emotionally-amorphous blob / surrogate dad, and the Burnham/Book story would have been more powerful with Book’s death, which would have opened up new story possibilities for Season Five.

Curious to see what S5 will bring, though. I’ll still watch.

Christ the comments are rough on this one. Glad to see that SMG at least respects fans with alternative opinions, that being said, I’m glad to see that discovery will be continuing. Might not be my favorite show of the bunch, but I still tune in every week when it’s on.

I still personally think the first season of Disco was the best, though I loved the last season’s exploration of first contact and linguistics. I hope those themes continue into S5!!!!

Would also love to maybe see an episode from the perspective of a 32nd century crew. While certainly fun to see the future from the lens of the past, seeing simply how the future operates as it is feels necessary at this point for context.

Based on these posts, I am thinking you might enjoy these two movies: Sybil and Split. ;-)

On DSC, I could not agree more. The first two seasons were the best, by far.

DISCO stared good enough for us as we had such a long dry spell from having no Trek. It was enough to keep us going and enjoy it for what it is. But what may be grating on peoples nerves by now is the consistency of each season where Discovery saves the universe.

1st half of S1 == saved from universal disaster from the Klingon war.
2nd half of S1 == saved from universal disaster from the Mirror incursion.
S2 == saved from universal disaster by an A.I. takeover.
S3 == saved from universal disaster by tracking down the cause/source of the Burn.
S4 == saved from universal disaster by the monster gas cloud thing
S5 == saved from universal disaster by (insert next disaster here)?

That being said, perhaps S4 would have been better with Discovery flying around the galaxy resupplying Dilithium to the various ex-Federation planets to introduce new species. See what it takes to get everyone back to the UFP. But this is just my observation.

Yikes! Like others have said the comments here are pretty rough.

I’ll try to be more diplomatic lol. So, Disc is my least fav Trek, and that’s simply down to the writing for me. I find it sad that I still don’t know most of the bridge crew’s names after so many episodes. And it is the only iteration I have never had any impulse to pop on a random episode of, because of it’s super serialised structure. I’ve just found myself constantly frustrated with the writing, plot arcs, character developments…or lack thereof… and actual dialogue and how I believe all of those failing do a massive disservice to the really talented actors and creatives working hard behind the scenes.

BUT what I will say is that I do truly appreciate that the creators are always trying to improve the show and amend what might not work. They really do appear to be actively listening to the fan base. As Sonequa says here, the show is almost unrecognisable from where it started. Obviously the makers are interested in making the best show possible, and that is evident in the constant reinvention; something that I don’t think anyone can deny. I applaud their efforts.

You also cannot deny that this Trek is miles ahead of the pack in terms of actual diverse representation of the LGBTQ+ community in particular. People seeing themselves in media can be life changing and have a really positive impact, and I’m sure for some Disc has been really important in this way. I also appreciate the show for this aspect. Some say it’s too “woke” or “political” etc for this reason, but let’s be honest that’s just some BS to cover up their own discomfort with the LGBTQ+ Community. I for one am thankful for their vision of representation.

As much as I do not care for Michael Burnham at all, I really like Sonequa Martin Green and how she expresses herself. She seems incredibly warm and measured in any of the interviews I’ve seen her in. She had a really awful time of it while filming season four with both of her parents dying very quickly after one another and having a child around that time too, and then diving back into work. She talks here about being grateful for the work and being thankful for her health during all the mayhem of the pandemic, and you can really get a sense that she truly does love Discovery and what she does.
She is a great ambassador for Trek.

I do feel bad for SMG because she has to maintain a false charisma for a show that gets so much hate, especially directed at her. The show sabotaged her character early on and then never fully recovered because of the relentlessly terrible character writing. They even set her back again when they made her question if she wanted to return to command after reuniting with Discovery. The show is just a mess.

Discovery: The show so insecure about itself that they literally wrote it out of the canon.

Seems to be tough for people to deal with each series on its own merit… DISCO doesn’t compare to SNW which doesn’t compare to TOS which doesn’t compare to TNG, etc etc… They’re all their own gigs.. Different missions, different purposes… oh and here’s a revelation .. DIFFERENT PEOPLE!!
All can be appreciated for for what they are individually.

There were some great things about Discovery from the beginning (certain characters, high production values, SFX), but also some incredibly frustrating aspects that finally led me to give up during season 4. The show runners have made some confounding creative choices all along the way, starting with the lead character Michael Burnham. Martin-Green is a fine actor with an appealing presence, but as written, her character today simply has no connection to the character of season 1. That’s not a character evolving, but just completely different. For a lot of the reasons that many viewers complain about, Discovery is too often incoherent as a story and overly emotional to the point of self-parody. I’m grateful that it led to SNW, which clearly learned from Discovery’s mistakes, and yet the mistakes in terms of effective drama sadly continue on Discovery.

I support the show and will continue to watch. But the only ST show that is less appealing to me is TAS. But that just means I am not the target demographic. I am ok with seeing people enjoying it as “their” Trek. It’s great that we have a large menu now. I’ll enjoy SNW or LD as my main course, snacking on DSC when there is no other Trek around to watch.

All the shows have their plusses and minuses. I watch them all and enjoy them all to some degree. Honestly I appreciate the differences. I think they’ve done a good job at avoiding the sameness that voyager and enterprise started to suffer from. And I like those shows too. But I did get bored with Enterprise at a certain point. I still haven’t seen all of season 2 or 3.

DISCOVERY IS EXCELLENT. Every Star Trek iteration has brought new flavor and sustained the appeal. There may be lines that I think are corny, or characters I find annoying in every StarTrek, but the Roddenbury appeal of the flavors of the future is what science fiction is about. The fact that critics have a simplistic canning of the series speaks more of their creative inflexibility than any specific shortcoming of the show.