‘Star Trek: Picard’ Showrunner Reveals If The USS Enterprise-E Is In Season 3 [UPDATED]

We are now less than two months away from the third and final season of Star Trek: Picard, which will bring the cast of Star Trek: The Next Generation back together. Now the showrunner is weighing in again on their former ship.

Not the Enterprise-E, but…

When last seen together in the 2002 film Star Trek Nemesis, the TNG crew were together on the USS-Enterprise-E, the Sovereign-class ship introduced in the 1996 film First Contact and used again in 1998’s Insurrection. According to the lore established in Star Trek: Picard, Captain Jean-Luc Picard gave up his command of the Enterprise-E a few years after Nemesis, after being promoted to admiral.

USS Enterprise-E

Picard season 3 is set two decades later with most of the action set on board the USS Titan-A, and fans would like to know if the Enterprise will show up as well. Alas, it appears not to be. On Sunday, showrunner Terry Matalas confirmed that Enterprise-E will not be part of season 3.

Matalas did say we will see at least one Sovereign-class ship, indicating they are still in service in the 25th century. And we actually did see a couple of Sovereign-class ships show up in the season 2 premiere of Picard. At the time, production designer Dave Blass said, “It brings us joy to bring back the Sovereign Class.”

One of the Sovereign class ships featured in season two of Picard

The showrunner has teased that season 3 will feature at least one USS Enterprise. In an August interview with TrekMovie, Matalas said:

We spend the most time on one ship this season that is not the Enterprise. That does not mean you won’t get your Enterprise fixes that you’re looking for.

We did get a glimpse of one Enterprise in the NYCC trailer in October. There was a quick shot of the USS Enterprise-F, the successor to the Enterprise-E. The design is based on the Enterprise-F from Star Trek Online. Maybe season 3 will establish what happened to the Enterprise-E in the years between Nemesis and Picard.

USS Enterprise-F as seen in the NYCC trailer

UPDATE: The fate of the E

After this article was posted, Matalas took another fan question about the Enterprise-E on Twitter. While not getting into specifics on why the F replaced the E, he did note that the shorter lifespan of the ship came down to “the mileage,” adding that flagships “take a beating.”

Relax in the Titan holodeck

Today’s Picard clue from Matalas features a shot of a control pad for the holodeck (presumably from the Titan-A).

The list of programs includes some easter eggs including Cafe Des Artistes (a program available on Enterprise-D and E), Sandrine’s Place (from Voyager), and Low Note in New Orleans (presumably Riker’s favorite gin joint). It also includes 10 Forward from Los Angeles, Guinan’s bar featured in season two of Picard (both in the 21st and 25th century). Jean-Luc Picard can be seen sitting down for a meal at 10 Forward in the NYCC trailer (below); Matalas confirmed this is not the holodeck.

Jean-Luc tries to have a meal at the real 10 Forward

Coming on Feb 16

The third and final season premieres on Thursday, Feb. 16, 2023, exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., with new episodes of the 10-episode-long season available to stream weekly on Thursdays. Here is the latest trailer from NYCC.

Picard streams exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S.A. It is distributed concurrently by Paramount Global Content Distribution on Amazon Prime Video in more than 200 countries and territories, and in Canada it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.

Thanks to Robert Wilde for the render of the Enterprise-E used in the header image, based on a model by Paul Trenkler and Matt Christou). See the full-sized version HERE.


Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.

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Guess we have an answer.

So the Enterprise was one of the ship’s in this week’s Prodigy that was attacked by the weapon and turned against Starfleet.

I doubt that. It appears Starfleet built a LOT of Sovereign Class ships.

The 1701-E is visible on the nacelle of the ship before the Slippery Dipsy Doodle.

It’s the only other distinct Sovereign Class ship shown aside from the Sovereign. It is only seen once.

comment image

I saw that after I made this post. The question is did the producers mean to show the E? We saw several ships named USS Sovereign. Someone might have forgotten to take the E registry off of a cgi model.
We will have to wait until part 2 to know, I guess. (This would be a terrible way to destroy the E, but no one in the production seem to care about ships anymore)

Enterprise C and D were both destroyed before their time. Now with the implication that the same happened to E, that feels a bit much.

I’m, somewhat, wondering if my original thought may play a part in this. I wondered if the E-E may have been renamed so that the Enterprise could be an Odyssey Class ship.

That or it was destroyed by Nero…

I am going with it being renamed as well…

It seems quite a dangerous place nowadays. The OG 1701 served 40 years, also the A was likely more older before retirement, as it was the Yorktown before.
And now we already know of a new Enterprise and Titan. Rough sea.

At some point, the Federation assembly should be stepping in with a directive like this:

Starfleet is ordered to discontinue the Enterprise name, as the high profile nature of that name keeps causing that ship and it’s crew to be targeted and destroyed, costing the Federation hundreds of lives and hundreds of billions of credits in both replacement costs and payouts to the families of the crew lost. Therefore, the Federation will no longer authorize any funds for any starship to be constructed that will have Enterprise as it’s name.

Federation assembly? That’s redundant. It’s the Federation period. Or Federation council… Anyway with all due respect, your proposition makes no sense. First of all there shouldn’t be any mention of credits, costs or payouts. And yes by all means let’s go hide under our beds because the bad aliens are shooting at our ships! And let’s call our ships USS Huggy Bear, USS Rainbow Kitten, USS Sparkle Bunny…

HA! To be fair though, the name “Enterprise” never made sense for a society where money doesn’t exist :-P

en·ter·prise
NOUN

a project or undertaking, typically one that is difficult or requires effort:“a joint enterprise between nations”initiative and resourcefulness:“success came quickly, thanks to a mixture of talent, enterprise, and luck”

*Currency* doesn’t exist. (It’s SBF’s paradise, I guess.) So long as there’s scarcity, money will exist. The replicator may have placed a big dent in scarcity, but you can’t replicate a starship or, presumably, plenty of other complex machinery.

Fair enough. And I suppose if they ever want to do business with Ferengi or the Orion Syndicate at least at the Government level they need to at least trade.

Federation Credits do exist. It’s covered in several eps.

Ya but like I said I don’t think they are used within the Federation but rather when dealing with species like the Ferengi that use money like Latinum.

Well the problem is that they have never clearly explained the economics of that. I mean, what about property? If someone decides they want a winery like Picard has in France, do they just get assigned one somewhere, with the property, mansion and equipment?

I agree that like Lex Luthor said in Superman the Movie…. Land, its the only thing they aren’t making any more of. You can’t just replicate more land on Earth. So I agree that the pure economics don’t work from that perspective. Maybe there is a lottery or something? In any case, while I agree the economics really don’t work (if they did we would do it) the point was always about a Utopian future where it just didn’t matter.

Ownership of property clearly exists. (Scotty in TUC: “that suits me, I just bought a boat.”)

Wow I forgot about that line!

But at the end of the day this keeps going back and forth. TVH “they’re still using money, we’ve got to find some.”. Then like you said about Scotty. It’s like OneLion said, nothing is ever clearly determined. I just choose to believe Scotty bought a boat from someone that is not a Federation citizen but I have nothing to back that up.

Again, that line is best read as referring to paper currency and coinage, all of which are decreasing in present-day society. (Try using currency in Sweden these days…)

Ok, I can see the whole paper currency vs virtual money thing. But do you think that was Roddenberry’s original intent?

In “Encounter at Farpoint” Beverly says “charge to Crusher” when she gets something at Farpoint Station. The whole “money doesn’t exist” thing swings back and forth and there is obviously some middle ground in play. There has to be some scarcity, so I think the Federation uses money in some ways.
ST continuity is a mess and that has only gotten worse over the years.

The name Enterprise finds no origin in the business world. In fact it is the other way around, business adopted the name. The word Enterprise is derived from the old french word entreprendre, which means “To undertake”. It was first noted in print in the 1400’s. The common definition of the word Enterprise is: a project or undertaking, typically one that is difficult or requires effort. The word Enterprise in place for a company or business is much more modern.

Wow! Good to know! Thanks

Also worth noting that in English company law, the word “undertaking” is a synonym with “business entity.” US corporate law doesn’t use that terminology.

The word “enterprise” does not equate to “money,” so I’m not sure what you mean.

Well someone already let me know that but thanks regardless. But in modern day verbiage, “Enterprise” refers to corporations. It was even in TNG when Picard says on the holodeck and her name is “Enterprise” and the holodeck character says, “wow, sounds like a working girl to me.”

His point is that there is some prestige value attached to destroying an “enterprise,” since the ship has such a storied name.

I can see how this would be the case. It’s rather like when the Ukrainians destroyed the cruiser “Moskva” a few months ago; it was the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, and it had previously been named “Slava” before being renamed for the capital city.

OTOH, there is also presumably some PR value in having an “Enterprise” in Starfleet, given the historical significance of Archer, Pike, and Kirk.

Sure, but my point was that Starfleet shouldn’t be intimidated or influenced in the choice of their Starship names because they’re fearing the enemy’s reaction. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

…Also I like to give One Lion a hard time…

Lol

If he’s one of the three lions on English soccer jerseys, perhaps he deserves it. :)

If I knew what that meant, perhaps I would not be happy…lol

“The three lions” is the name of England’s national soccer team. They perpetually lose on penalty kicks, for which England gives them a hard time.

So I’m the Ted Laso of Trekmovie. Cool!

His point is that there is some prestige value attached to destroying an “enterprise,” since the ship has such a storied name.

Yeah, exactly. And my point is that when it keeps getting destroyed like for or five freaking times, it’s probably time to retire the name.

I mean can you imagine if you are a cadet and you are telling your parents that have just been assigned to the Enterprise G what they are going to be thinking…”Oh no, our kid will be serving on the starship that keeps getting destroyed”

Some allowance also needs to be made for the fact that space is really, really vast and dangerous.

Today, losing an aircraft carrier every few years would be seen as catastrophic — look at the consternation over the collision involving the USS John McCain in 2017, and the policy debate over whether drones would render aircraft carriers sinkable in a hypothetical war with China.

But if we ever do invent faster-than-light travel in real life, those assumptions would probably fly out the window — losses unacceptable on the high seas would probably be acceptable for space travel, especially in its early years.

Those parents should probably be fearful not of their kids serving on an Enterprise per se, but of entering Starfleet at all!

It might not be the name so much as it keeps getting staffed by the best of the best crews who are then assigned the most risky assignments.

Yes there are credits in the Federation. For example, in the 2250s, the Federation placed a bounty of 100,000 credits on Harry Mudd.

Also in a TNG ep, it’s mentioned that the Federation would have paid the Barzanian Planetary Republic, a non-Federation government, 1.5 million Federation credits as a lump sum and then 100,000 credits every Barzanian year for the rights to the Barzan wormhole. The transaction never transpired, once the wormhole’s instability became apparent.

And yeah, The Federation Council is the legislative assembly of the Federation.

I don’t see what the meaning of “Enterprise” has to do with what you said or what I replied. You were talking about the “high profile nature” of the name due to the accomplishments and reputations of the ships called Enterprise, not the meaning of the actual word. And you know perfectly well what I was referring to about credits and costs, so I know you want to be right, but unfortunately you’re making even less sense than before. Also, I’m not 18 and I’ve never even touched a surfboard and the ‘90s ended over 20 years ago, so maybe you should stop calling people “dude”. Not everybody is from SOCAL.

OK gramps, I’ll get off your lawn (just kidding, grumpy)…lol

I am not sure what your response is about here as I was simply commenting on your remark:

First of all there shouldn’t be any mention of credits, costs or payouts.

In my opinion this is incorrect — I think that credits can absolutely be mentioned when talking about capital ship construction projects and benefits to families for crew killed in action.

Also, let’s be real — who would want to serve on a ship that has been destroyed over and over and over…at some point it becomes like you are serving on the Titanic VII, and all of the previous Titantics have been sunk.

Lol, it get’s silly that almost all the E’s in Star Trek keep getting destroyed but the Federation keeps putting out new ones despite all the destruction of lives and ships — can’t you simply admit that?

Yah, I’m probably older than you and I did literally tell kids to get off my lawn and this was 15 years ago! But like I said in my other post just below here, my post you replied to should be ignored. It was a reply to a post where among other things you were asking me if I even knew what the word “Enterprise” meant… but I can’t find that post anymore… anyway sonny, it’s all good.

Ah, I edited that post shortly after posting because I decided it was too harsh and I wasn’t saying what I wanted to say. I am actually and old dude, too, BTW.

No worries.

”Old’ is in the heart man… Thankfully I have good genes. My dad is 86 but looks and feels 65… Your post wasn’t too harsh, but thanks for changing it. Don’t worry about it though. I have tough skin. There’s only one poster here that really gets under my skin… and it’s not you!

Lol, it get’s silly that almost all the E’s in Star Trek keep getting destroyed but the Federation keeps putting out new ones despite all the destruction of lives and ships

OTOH, there *is* a counterargument here, as I alluded to above. The name “Enterprise” obviously carries a great deal of historical weight for the Federation, thanks to NX-01, 1701, and 1701A. 1701B, and 1701C up to Narendra III, may have had equally storied careers — we don’t know. And even though she only lasted seven years, 1701-D did quite a bit, stopping the Borg and such.

So having an “enterprise” in the fleet is good PR for Starfleet. The feel-good story presumably helps Starfleet lobby for more funds for new ship classes in the Federation Assembly. Sending the Enterprise on a diplomatic mission also confers prestige on foreign governments and signals that the Federation is serious about the diplomatic effort. (The Feds sent 1701 on an important diplomatic mission in “Amok Time” and “Journey to Babel,” and 1701-A on the Klingon peace mission: “they’ll think twice about attacking the Enterprise under your command.”)

This kind of soft power isn’t to be abandoned lightly, even if the same prestige makes the ship a target. Note also that Starfleet is fond of the name “Potemkin” and “Yamato,” which are historically important in Russia and Japan.

Even in real life, we see the name “Enterprise” has much currency thanks to the original Yorktown-class carrier’s WWII service. Enterprise (CVN-65) was the first nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. Enterprise (CVN-80), the Ford-class aircraft carrier, is due to enter service in 2028. Other new carriers are named after historical figures, so the Navy is making an exception for “Enterprise.” There was also the grassroots clamor to name the experimental space shuttle “Enterprise,” although Star Trek had something to with that!

It’s percolated down into popular culture, too. The aircraft carrier featured in both TOP GUN and HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER is…Enterprise CVN-65. The military likes positive PR, as the Navy’s enthusiasm for the original TOP GUN and its sequel demonstrates, and even before we get to the Star Trek connection, the name “enterprise” generates it in spades.

Good points — that all makes sense. However, imaging if each seagoing ship that was name Enterprise kept getting sunk, one after the other, then would they keep naming new ones? And if they did, who would want to serve on them? You know how superstitious close-knit crews can get — it would become like “the Enterprise curse,” and graduating cadets would not want to get selected to be on that ship.

Well, I’m sure there would be debates along the lines of the ones we’re having here. :)

But equally, I could see far-removed descendants of Capt. Archer — the 24th century equivalent of the Daughters of the American Revolution or what not — screeching at the top of their lungs about plans to jettison the name “Enterprise,” complaining loudly to their elected representatives, etc. (Look at how the Navy keeps naming ships after the McCain family.)

Hawkish politicians would milk it as a cultural issue. (“Jettison the name Enterprise because the Duras sisters got lucky? That’s letting the terrorists win!”)

As is often the case in politics, where benefits of one position are small but concentrated, and the benefits of a counter position are real but diffuse, the former often wins.

I don’t know, but my answer below was to a post that maybe you edited? Anyway it no longer fits with this new post that I’m seeing… so ignore it. I do get your point about credits… and also what you’re saying about the Enterprise name, still I would not retire the name.

Fair enough!

And yeah, The Federation Council is the legislative assembly of the Federation.

It’s a bit uncanny how the Federation legislature in Star Trek seems to adopt Russian naming conventions. In Russian politics, the legislature as a whole is referred to as the “Federal Assembly,” which consists of the State Duma (the lower chamber) and the Federation Council (the upper chamber). The latter chamber consists of two representatives from each “subjects” (i.e., the various regions) of the Russian Federation, one nominated by the regional governor, the other by the regional legislature. Until the early Putin years, regional governors served on the Federation Council.

We don’t know a lot about the Federation’s government, or indeed if the legislature is bicameral. But the method of appointing Federation Councillors sounds a lot like what Russia does in real life. They don’t appear to be popularly elected; they seem to be notables who get appointed based on status within their home societies. (T’Pau was the only person to “turn down” a seat on the Council, which all but rules out a political campaign to elect her.)

I have to believe that the UFP legislature has a popularly-elected, single-member district lower house. Otherwise there’s no democratic legitimacy.

I had thought an interesting alternative take for a later-life Picard would have been to serve as the UFP’s equivalent of a defense minister (basically, Star Trek does THE WEST WING), which would have explored these issues a bit.

Yeah, it’s all a bit muddled and it’s never been explained very well.

Dry humor doesn’t always translate well in print. I get it…. :-p

Well yours does, so I thought I’d give it a try…

And sometimes, after the translation, it’s still not funny. ;-)

Actually there is an unproduced episode from TNG Season 6 – it was an original plan for Times Arrow – that would have seen Enterprise recalled to Earth and reassigned there due to concerns its destruction would impact morale.

I thought the premise of this episode was the Ent-D was recalled due to a design flaw in the materials form which its hull was constructed?

Apparently they toyed with the idea of Enterprise being permanently assigned to Earth several times.

Both Jeri Taylor and Ronald D. Moore developed episodes using the Enterprise returning theme. Taylor proposed the Enterprise be a permanent defense ship for Earth in a Breen focused story. Moore wanted it to be the Queen Mary.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Undeveloped_Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_episodes

I agree, same with the original Titan!

The original was also destroyed, even if it was about to be decommissioned anyway. The Enterprises do crazy dangerous things every week. Its amazing that the A and B lasted as long as they did.

The refit was only about 14 years old, so the decommissioning was ridiculous. I love STIII, but the movie makes very little sense. Kirk had more options than destroying the ship as well. It was done to shock the audience.

Well the fools running the show, they were more concerned with the 5m of the wow factor of a new Ent.

Matalas, please stop giving all of this info away. I want to be excited when I watch the series and don’t really need any more spoilers please. Try to restrain yourself, please!!!

Restrain yourself and stop clicking spoiler links and visiting sites known to be spoilery!

Sure, but Matalas does talk too much. Fact.

I can handle it yet still call it out as being moronic

100% Agree!

Cool

See? Sometimes we agree!

It happens. :-)

If you don’t need any more spoilers you could simply not read the spoiler posts. It just takes a little self-restraint on your part. (Okay, who am I kidding? LOL)
Other fans enjoy these little tidbits. And despite the number of posts, we still know very little about what will actually go down during season 3.

We know the Enterprise-F will show up, and this is a major spoiler. I don’t dispute that if we don’t want spoilers we should abstain from clicking on the links, but the first one who should abstain is Matalas.

Is it a major spoiler? I’ve gotten the vibe that the F doesn’t have much to do in the season. I guess we all consider different things spoilers. To me, we know next-to-nothing about the overall story/character arcs, which is good because those are actual spoilers about what will happen. Ships appearing and little set photos on LCARS and such are just fun teases to get excitement up.

Fair enough, but the Enterprise appearing, to me at least, would have been a major wow event, if it had been an unexpected surprise… Now it will just be a “I wonder when she’ll show up” event… Ruins the moment for me.

You know, it would not shock me to find out that Matalas is one of us here who here posts a lot. lol

Now that you mention it… I don’t see how Malalas could even help himself NOT to post here! There’s a poster called Captain M who was replying to me just above here, saying “Is it a major spoiler?” Man, it has to be him! ;)

Good god, man, I hadn’t noticed that. That would be hilarious if Captain M is Matalas, and he’s right here now pushing back on our comments about him blabbering too much…LOL^2

I wish I was Matalas, but alas, I’m not. Just a guy working a normal job who enjoys discussing Star Trek. I’m all for Terry continuing to give us little glimpses and teases for Picard’s final season

Nice try Terry, we’re on to you! Ok just kidding…

Darn, I was hoping your were Matalas! Just having fun — thanks for responding.

Something tells me Terry frequents these sites and has a laugh at all our comments and speculating. It wouldn’t be the first time — Bob Orci did it back in the day when he was working on the movies.

Some of it could be misdirects. For all we *actually* know maybe the Titan-A is blown up in episodes 1 or 2 in events that draw in the Enterprise.

I’d be unsurprised if we’re getting at least some misdirection out of him.

I hope that is the case. He reminds me though of having “that cousin” in your family who just can’t keep a secret. lol

I still think it’s ridiculous that Guinan’s bar in the 21st century was named 10 Forward since the bar on the D was named for the location on the ship.

Fan service at it’s worst.

Agreed. I could see Guinan specifically chosing the location *after* her time on the Enterprise D — but not the other way around.

It wasn’t named 10 Forward in the 21st century. It was named ’10’ after the address it was on.

Still tho, a bit of a coincidence.

Well, if you flip the temporal logic, maybe Guinan was nostalgic about the name and Picard was able to indulge her — she may’ve had a *choice* of lounges. Ten Forward is the only one shown by TNG, given the limitations of physical sets, but there’s capacity for *dozens* of similar spaces around the vertical edges of the saucer and stardrive section. We could posit Ten Slightly Port, Nine Amidships, Two at 270, etc. Along with string quartets and repertory theater, the top pasttime of the crew might be decorating unused conversation nooks. :)

Sure. I suppose that could be the case.

Well the Lounge from Remembrance does appear to be slightly to the left of where it should be to be 10 Forward.

A recent theory of mine. Ten Forward on the Enterprise was an experiment at having a franchise location on board. The ship has a bunch of purely civillian personnel, Mott the barber, various teachers, children, etc. So the initiatives that lead the Galaxy class’s design, its “luxury hotel” aesthetic, could lead to the idea for a franchise location for a popular historic Earth pub well known to Starfleet Academy Cadets to be placed onboard. Then you have the franchise owner come aboard for the trial period.

I see what you are saying, but it is still a HUGE coincidence that 10 “forward” was the forward most room that could fit that many people aboard the ship.

Coincidence is unnecessary — the space could’ve been specifically outfitted for this hypothetical Starfleet-civilian collaboration. Probably not as a refit, though — it didn’t appear until season 2, but earlier existence is alluded to in “All Good Things” (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ten_Forward#Background_information).

(Starfleet naval architects could’ve asked, “We’ve got 1,000 crew and passengers and 3,000 windows. How many shared lounge-spaces do we really need to outfit upon launch?” See: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/how-many-windows-does-the-enterprise-d-have.286239/)

The TNG Technical Manual describes the Galaxy-class interior as highly modular. Its standard stores might include flat-pack compartments that can be installed within the spaceframe, without Spacedock assistance; this would be consistent with the original conception of the class as a long-distance, long-duration explorer (which the Enterprise-D rarely got to be). This might incidentally explain the mix of dark windows — they’re permanently cut into the hull, but upon launch they don’t necessary have associated compartments.

S2 of Picard is not canon. So, 10 Forward was named for the location of the ship.

I just can’t bring myself to count the season as part of the ST universe. It was just so bad.

The stuff about PIcard’s Mom is the stuff I really couldn’t stomach. This whole time she was dead? I mean this isn’t Sixth Sense lol

Q is very fond of simulations — the pig-creatures from “Q and Seek,” the post-Atomic horror from “Encounter at Farpoint,” the entirety of “Tapestry,” etc. Personally, I’d go with the entirety of season 2 as being a simulation, and that they didn’t really visit 2024 Los Angeles.

I’d be so much happier with that. Still doesn’t explain Queen Jurati at the end tho.

It does; Q simply Borgified her to reflect what would happen in the simulation. And the simulation theory explains Elnor’s magical reappearance.

Ok well like I said, I’ll STILL take that over what we actually got!

That is a great idea! It was just one of Q’s crazy scenarios. I can accept that.

You’re misunderstanding the term “canon.” All filmed Star Trek is canon. That’s what “canon” means.

Actually canon is determined by the franchise owner, and is not limited to on screen material. I much as I hate Turnabout Intruder it’s still canon, so is Spock’s Brain, that aweful stupid episode where Ben Sisko violates a near universal weapons ban to get 1 guy and somehow never even faces a review panel despite serving in the same service that Court Martialed James Kirk for the death of 1 man. It’s all canon, and all of us feel differently about all of it, but that has no impact on canon.

Actually canon is determined by the franchise owner, and is not limited to on screen material.

It’s not as if we have the Academie Francaise de Star Trek to settle this question definitively.

People historically deemed filmed Star Trek as “canon” because (1) it carried an air of realism to it (flux capacitors and all), (2) a lot of it was pretty darned good, and (3) most of the remainder wasn’t terribly bad. So people overlooked the occasional stinker, although even then at the margins we had debate about defenstrating the likes of Turnabout intruder or TFF.

The “quantity over quality” approach of Secret Hideout — the mushrooming of shows, kiddie fare (albeit not as bad as I’d feared), sitcoms, and the obsession with prequels and Easter eggs — has undermined all three rationales.

What constitutes “canon” is going to involve a lot of pick-and-choosing and will vary from fan to fan: a cafeteria plan, if you will.

I for one refuse to believe bug-eyed animated figures are canon.

What about when Mariner and Boimler show up in SNW season 2? Will you then consider that canon because they’re not animated?

Umm no Termac, canon in any IP is solely determined by the owner of that IP. Fans can like or dislike and “headcanon” anything they want but that has no impact on the IP and people in the future working on that IP will be guided by the IP owner’s canon and IP bible.

I’m not now and never will say that anyone who doesn’t like (pick Trek series/movie) isn’t a fan, I’m not saying they have to like it, I have many things in Trek I don’t like, like STIV, but my opinions don’t change what is or isn’t canon, only the IP owner can do that.

Agreed. It’s like the entire run of Enterprise for me — I am pretending it never happened.

Oh no you didn’t! I love Enterprise. I find it extremely rewatchable.

We are back to disagreeing again…lol

How do you know a Trek series if bad? Well, if your favorite eps are seeing the best looking of the crew in a decontamination chamber rubdown, then you know the overall show isn’t working.

Well yah, I’ll agree with you there! That’s pure manipulation and enticement. Let’s get more viewers by oiling up the sexy Vulcan and having her get a rubdown or going into an artificial pon-far… it’s no worse than 7 of 9 in her catsuit though. I hate it when they do that. Come on, if you want us to watch give us a good story and good characters. It’s like they think we’re all nerds who have never, well you know. But besides that, though I don’t like the look of the Enterprise and a lot of the technology… I still like most of the episodes… Except S4 and those alien Nazis or Soong and his augments and of course that dreadful series finale…

WIth due respect, that’s about like taking the cringiest moment from TNG (say, Lwaxana’s relentless pursuit of Picard in “Manhunt”) and dismissing the entire series as a result.

It was meant as a tongue and cheek humorous remark.

That being said, I really did not like much of what I saw on the four years of Enterprise.

At no point did the show say that, though.

Ok, it said the bar was named “10” and it was on “Forward” street. If that was not the case then why was it called 210 Forward? Even if the bar had a completely different name and it happened to be located at “10 Forward, Los Angeles, CA 9****” that’s still ridiculous.

I’m sure that if you search hard enough you’ll find an asinine explanation by Matalas for it.

And regarding the Enterprise, we are supposed to get two, so I am hoping the D saucer makes an appearance still. That would be way better than the E-E anyways.

The Ent-D saucer isn’t going to be in a whole lot better shape than the fuselage of TWA-800. Sure, the latter was reconstructed for forensic tests, but it’s not exactly a museum piece.

I guess but who knows maybe they partially rebuilt it or at the very least put shields around it so it could have life support.

That would be rather hilarious if BOTH Enterprises got destroyed…that would be new — 2 E’s destroyed in once Trek story.

If that happens, then destroying the E’s in Trek becomes a drinking game.

It’s already a drinking game lol. 1701. 1701-C. 1701-D. And to be fair we have no idea what happened to the B or the E. The only one I am reasonably sure is in a Museum is the A and the Saucer of the D.

If that happens forget everything I said in this thread about still naming ships Enterprise and I’ll agree with you; Stop using the goddamn name “Enterprise”!

I mean at this point any darn ship gets the “A”, “B”, “C”, “D”… designation now. So is the Enterprise even special anymore? That was supposed to be something reserved just for the big E (I know it was never stated in canon but I mean come on!)

Surely there’s more than one fabled starship name that the Federation would want to keep alive. In real life we have not only Enterprise, but also Victory, Bonhomme Richard, Constitution, etc.

I can see Voyager. I mean they made it back from Delta. But I mean Titan? Like what did they do that was so special? Conversely. Sisko’s Defiant did so much during the Dominion War and when he got his second Defiant it didn’t get the “A” designation. It just should have stayed with Enterprise IMO.

I mean, in twenty years, are we going to get a new series with a 26th Century Enterprise where the alphabet is used up, and we will get the Enterprise-AA? lol

LOL. Well, by the time of mid way between Daniels and Archer we had the Enterprise J and that was around the 26th century so by Burhman’s time I don’t think we would have hit Z yet! :-P

It will soon be revealed that in the 26th century, it was actually the second Enterprise-J!

I mean, I don’t see why that’s*so* laughable. “1701AA” is no longer than modern aircraft registries in the US.

You’re overthinking this. The reason the Enterprise keeps getting letters is because it’s the flagship in OUR REAL WORLD. It’s iconic.

Will we get an Enterprise in 50 years that’s the Enterprise Z-1? I don’t know, but I can tell you that as long as the franchise exists, the studio will always want a new Enterprise to follow. The internal logic is secondary, and is ultimately immaterial.

Without knowing much about the actual story for the season, this feels like a missed opportunity. Picard has a connection to the Enterprise-E since he was a captain. Heck, in canon, he captained the E longer than the D. Having a new Enterprise seems like a miss, when we could see Picard interacting with the captain of his old ship. But instead we have the Enterprise-F, a ship Picard has no connection with. It’s like Kirk being on board the Enterprise-B in Generations. That wasn’t his ship, it wasn’t his Enterprise. Unless Picard takes command of the F for part of the season, it just seems like a missed opportunity. But in Terry we trust

I’m kind of hoping Worf will be in command of the F. But we’ll see.

Matalas already said Worf is a Captain, but not of a ship.

Haven’t cast members already talked about being on board the bridge of the “D”? Pretty sure I read that in several interviews they talked about the experience being back on the ship again.

I think I remember that too. But who knows if it is the actual D or just a holodeck or a flashback.

LeVar Burton commented that he didn’t remember the ramps being so steep during the series run in an interview.

Yes it was LeVar Burton who said that back in August. He did mention that they had spent 3 days shooting on a recreation of the D bridge and commented on the steepness of the ramps. Could be for a holodeck scene or a flashback like others have said.

I’m in the clear minority but I was never a fan of the ENT-E design. It looks too “muscled up” to me. Enterprise on steroids. “Kick ass” ships have its place in Starfleet but the crown jewel Enterprise design (yes I know its not technically the flagship )should scream elegance and exploration to me not “Kick ass” – pew pew. Not a big fan of the interior either . Too much grey.

I’m admittedly biased because I love the neck section of the basic Enterprise designs (D and previous). The ENT E’s neck merges too closely with the saucer IMO. its like seeing a human being’s head positioned directly on the torso of the body with no neck in between. Ugly

But as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I liked the ship a lot from the sides and back but from the front it kinda looked like a weird mushroom. But ya it looked like a marriage between VOY and ENT which I wasn’t huge on.

I was more a fan of saucers instead of the arrow head shape as well

S3 of PICARD will likely be the last of ST for me, unless a Titan show comes along afterward…

Me too, unless they doing ‘smallville’ of TNG :P

LOL! Oh lord why? So Picard can spend 10 years at the academy and never put on the combadge at the end?

Ever Star Trek fan should know by now that starships only last 3-7 years.

The original Enterprise was 40 years old when it got exploded.

Is it really that old through considering the refit was “an almost totally new Enterprise,” as Decker said?

I suppose you could ask the question, if it really was almost a totally new Enterprise, what was even the point of the refit? Why not just build a new one from scratch?

I’ve been thinking that since 1979.

me too

Easy. The hull, weapons, and other major systems integration were there; what was new was the next-generation warp drive.

But by definition that is not an almost entirely new Enterprise. Just a new next generation Warp Drive.

Not if you think of it as an argument over semantics, made by Decker in the heat of the moment when Kirk was demoting him.

Ask that of most navies today.

Ships are platforms for propulsion, sensor and weapons technology.

Many naval vessels are refit and upgraded with new technology repeatedly to the point that they aren’t really the same ship with the exception of the frame.

Given the massive investment required to build a new class of ships, incremental improvements of systems in dry dock are a sane way to extend the value. However, at a certain point technological progress overtakes to the point where a new class is needed to provide a more suitable platform to support it.

The refit 1701 was about 14 years old when destroyed. So it wasn’t that old, either.

The writers/producers, ever since Generations, just seem to think that fans only want shiny/new/whizbang all the time. It’s lost on them the impact seeing the original ships still around would have. Enterprise E still in service would have had weight – that ship has seen, and been a part of, so much Federation history. Instead we get that funky looking “F” from the online game. Once upon a time the ship was as much a character as the actors were. Now they’re throw-away props.

At least Star Wars gets this.

I honestly don’t get why they want to stick to STO ship canon so much when everything else about STO canon is so very different from Picard

Just guessing but 1) fans wo’ve played the game will recognize the ships (and probably like seeing them again) and 2) it saves them design work. I think they alluded to it in interviews about the season 2 opener that they wouldn’t have been able to show such a wide variety of Starfleet ships in the fleet shots if they had to design all of them themselves. Not sure if they actually used 3D models created for STO or just the designs.

So, I clicked on the link to the Cafe des Artistes page on Memory Alpha comment image/revision/latest?cb=20120727025420&path-prefix=en)

That round building near the Eiffel Tower (the one adjacent to Picard’s shoulder in the photo) looks an awful lot like the building destroyed in the Picard Season 3 trailer.

That suggests that the building might be the executive offices of the Federation President (I’ve always assumed the Council is in San Francisco, based on TVH, but that’s never been said explicitly), and it gets destroyed in some kind of terrorist attack by Amanda Plummer’s character.

I only ever remember the President’s office being in Paris from DS9 (IIRC) so yes that would be interesting. And it would be nice for not everything to be based in San Francisco. Kinda makes me wonder what is going on in Washington tho.

Maybe after WW3 they decided not to rebuild it?

Sure I guess that’s totally possible. I mean after the world became a world Government, who knows?

I think it’s clear that the Federation has divided its “capital” among various cities, rather in the way South Africa does. The executive is in Paris. Starfleet is in San Francisco (a tip of the hat to the fact that the UN charter was signed in San Francisco; also cf. the fact that Germany’s defense ministry remains in Bonn, not Berlin). We don’t definitely know where the legislature and high court sits. TVH suggested the Federation Council was in San Francisco, too, but it could have been holding a special session away from its home base.

Yes. TVH and DS9 are a lil different because even the Federation President was in San Francisco at the time the probe hit. I suppose he could have relocated there when the emergency arose but before the probe reached Earth? And the councel? I mean beam to SF, done and done. Like Picard does in S1 of Picard. But I like the idea of them spreading everything across the world because Earth is a world Government and not just the US.

I’ve thought that Berlin and Canberra might be candidates, since the Vulcans had consulates in those cities in ENT “Terra Prime.”

I will say that having all these organs in different time zones (imagine having the Pentagon being in a different time zone than the White House!) must wreak havoc on one’s circadian rhythms!

In the Relaunch novels, the centre of Federation government in in Paris.

While those novels have been written out of canon, there’s never been any suggestion that anything but Starfleet HQ was located in the former United States.

I don’t see any reason to negate that. I mean after all DS9 is canon and he did say that so I’m cool with that. Also as I stated above, I like the idea of the government spread across the world and not just in the US. Heck, if they wanted to put the President’s office on Vulcan or Andor I would be cool with that too.

It’s also possible that there’s a “summer capital” on Vulcan, like Edirne was under the Ottomans and Simla during the Raj. Spreads the government spending spigot around a bit. :)

That would be cool, not literally of course lol

Wasn’t the Federation presidents office in Paris in Star Trek 6 too? I distinctly seem to remember the image of the Eiffel Tower outside his window. So I think this theory does make sense.

While I’m not aware of it, I’m assuming that the governance structure of the Federation has been fleshed out somewhere. It’s been implied plenty of times that earth is the capital planet of the Federation. In Trek real world, I’d imagine the day-to-day responsibilities of governance would be carried out at a regional level. Space is huge, it’s hard to imagine some far-flung corner of Federation space waiting for months or years to get something done because mother earth is far, far away.

Given the Enterprise-E was launched in 2372 that would put it at nearly 30 years old. I like the Sovereign class starship, but bring on the F!

I still can’t figure out why the Excelsior class is the only one that can last so long lol

Matalas did clarify the Sovereign class is still in service.

True

I mean, it’s quite clearly a production reason, not an in-universe reason. They reused the existing miniature model in TNG in order not to have to design and build a different ship miniature. Later when they moved from miniature models to CGI it was probably still less work to recreate an existing miniature in 3D than to design and build a new one.

Some designs hold up better than other. The USAF has had plenty of bombers come and go since the 1950’s, but the B-52’s keep chugging along.

That attitude has made ships worthless. The desire for “new” means will have the Enterprise Z before long. 30 years is nothing for a career of a starship. And now it has been said the F has been around for a while so the E didn’t even make it to 30 years. Yuck.

The Enterprise E, and Deanna Troi’s Starfleet career, both ended when she face planted the ship on the dark side of the moon…..

Beverly Crusher- “You think they’ll make another one?”
Picard- “There’s plenty of letters left in the alphabet.”

I always wondered how the Sovereign class did a saucer separation and was curious if they were gonna show a saucer separation at some point for the Enterprise E. I guess we’ll never know.

Separation ability was built into the design. There are storyboards out on the web.

They don’t make ships like they used to. I find the Enterprise F so incredibly ugly, and putting images of both the F and the E in the same article does the former no favours.

Agreed.

It looks like the E that has been left in the sun too long.

I’m not a statistician, but my guess is that you can’t know if the ratio of Enterprises destroyed is higher than normal, without knowing the ratio of ships in the entire fleet destroyed over the same period of time.

As to the Enterprise being targeted specifically because of the name, again you need to look at the circumstances of each destruction. (Nerd alert – I didn’t know all of this, had to look it up)

NX-01 Enterprise – Retired
Enterprise – Self-Destruct. In addition, Kruge had no idea (really) of the importance of the Enterprise. He was only aware of Kirk because of the Genesis Device (if I recall correctly.)
Enterprise A – Retired (we assume)
Enterprise B – Retired (we assume)
Enterprise C – Destroyed in Battle with Romulans when responding to an attack – so not specifically targeted.
Enterprise D – Targeted and destroyed, specifically.
Enterprise E – Damaged but repaired so…Retired Eventually?
Enterprise F – ?

So, we can’t say that it was specifically targeted. And if you look at the number of Enterprises destroyed it’s 3 out of 7 or 42.9%.

Too much thinking for a Tuesday morning. ;)

Other ships can serve 100 years, but any ship named Enterprise is now quickly destroyed or retired early. STG tossed the D out like an empty beer can. It seems the E didn’t last that long either. The F is getting old? Is this just catering to some fans who want new ships every few years?
In the ST universe, I would not want to serve on any ship named Enterprise.
BTW, it is not canon that Enterprise A was originally Yorktown.

Of course, it’s catering to fans. The Dominion War cemented in canon that Starfleet is a monstrous organization, with tens of thousands of ships scattered across the galaxy. Which means they all require support facilities, with long layovers for refueling and refitting, which is a fairly common process with modern seafaring navies today. Star Trek would be boring, if they had to show all the down time that actually came with exploring space.

Enterprise-A was originally NCC 1798 USS Ti-Ho.

We don’t know that either. ST has consistently said that only what is mentioned or appears on screen is canon. (Even though canon is a complete mess, overall)

The Enterprise-D looked fantastic on the TV screen, but I think Generations showed the design didn’t really transfer well to the big screen. That’s why I always thought they got rid of the D.

I think the biggest problem wasn’t necessarily the Enterprise D miniature or its design, but the interiors. The sets were worn out after seven seasons (which has been suggested as a reason why the ship is lit so dimly in the movie). They also looked dated. So they wanted to build new sets for the sequel, and to free them in terms of design, it made sense to have those new sets on a new ship.

Somewhere along the line the makers of Star Trek forgot that Enterprise is a character just like Picard is. Why do they have to be on another ship? Why does there have to be Enterprise F? If it truly is supposed a TNG reunion then why aren’t they on the Enterprise E with Captain Worf, or LaForge?

This is STAR TREK. These are the voyages of the Starship ENTERPRISE.

Fans want to see our hero’s on THE ENTERPRISE.

No. Not really.

Yes, really.

Absolutely really and honestly agree.

Agreed the Big E is a character. I would like to give Terry and team the benefit of the doubt on this one and wait to see what he has planned. So far, I’m hooked.

I bet dollars to donuts the Enterprise-D saucer has been connected to the stardrive section of another ship like, The U.S.S Galaxy, as a museum piece. There could be talk about how The Galaxy’s own saucer was lost in the Dominion War. Pick any notable Galaxy-class ship; U.S.S. Venture would work too. I prefer to think it’s the Galaxy since I’m not aware of any canonical mention of the U.S.S. Galaxy, but it feels the perfect marriage between the Enterprise-D and her progenitor class-ship.

Since there is a Sovereign Class Venture, obviously the Galaxy Class ship of the same name was lost at some point.

Matalas, that man who makes public personal attacks on people on Twitter. Yeah.

I’m one of them he came after because he didn’t like what I had to say about Picard. Dude has a thin skin.

I don’t care anymore after that bs they wrote for PIC S2. That was the worst ST season I ever watched and one of the worst seasons of any show I watched. Massively disappointing writing, plot, character development and language. It is a shame and all of the 33 producers should be ashamed for continuing to ruin Patrick Stewart’s / Picards legacy. Hence I am sure they will mess up in S3 big time. Allready again destroying an Enterprise and bringing that ugly E-F…wow
My last hope apart from Lower Decks is Strange new worlds.

Lame.

Must Star Trek always be centered on a primary villain – threat to earth or mankind and never ending conflict? One of exploration – peace ☮️ and sharing ideals in all of our unique cultures. Isn’t that true focus – theme to Star Trek? It’s sadly so predictable

Can I ask if I am the only one who is really gutted about the enterprise e not appearing in season 3 of picard. I’d like to know what other people are feeling about this. With respect to Terry Matalas, I’m sure a new enterprise f is a good way to bring the franchise forward into a new generation, but this is a show about jean luc picard. The captain of the enterprise d and e. They were his ships. I’m sure he has an emotional attachment to those ships as would the crew who served on them. Now imagine if back in 2015 starwars the force awakens decided to bring out a new millennium falcon. Fans would have gone on the war path. Now don’t get me wrong I’m a fan of the picard series and I’m a little more kinda towards it than some others but yea this is a kick in the nuts. I’m not sure that all this about the millage and it being beat up considering starships have a long life is just a way to bring in a new enterprise that I’m personally not yet warmed to. Maybe I’ll learn to like it. The enterprise e is one of the most best looking enterprises ever made. Which im struggling to understand how john eves who has worked on season 3 has not spoken up about it. He wanted to redesign the ship slightly at the end of nemesis. Maybe Terry matalas might here fans dismay and put the ship in season 3 after all. However I like the titan-A. She’s a beauty. Harks all the way back to the enterprise refit from star trek tmp. I very much like that ship.