Anthony and Laurie are joined by Subrina Wood from the SyFy Sistas and Matt Wright from the Shuttle Pod to look back at the astonishing year of 2022 in which five different Star Trek shows were on, then look ahead at each show to see what’s coming and how everyone feels about it. The group also speculates on what show might be greenlit next, thoughts on whether or not there’ll be another movie, and the Khan podcast coming from Nicholas Meyer.
Links:
Star Trek: Picard season 3 teaser trailer and clip
Terry Matalas on All Access Star Trek: part 1 and part 2
Editorial: Spock Having A Sister In ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Is Not That Big Of A Deal
Drummer replacements in This Is Spinal Tap
‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ Adds Carol Kane To The Cast As New Engineer, Plus Season 2 Clip
Mike McMahan Trying To Figure Out How To Do ‘Star Trek: Enterprise’ Cameos On ‘Lower Decks’
The SyFy Sistas interview Dan and Kevin Hageman
Voyager/Prodigy Trojan Horse meme
Watch: ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Season 5 First Look Trailer Shows Galaxy’s Greatest Treasure Hunt
The SyFy Sistas interview Sonequa Martin-Green
Nicholas Meyer’s ‘Star Trek: Khan – Ceti Alpha V’ Launching As Scripted Podcast
TREKTalks 2 – January 14, 2023
Watch: Full Replay Of TREKtalks Telethon Featuring Dozens Of Star Trek Celebrities
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Thank God for Strange New Worlds!
And Prodigy!
And Lower Decks!
And Adam Sooong!
Wasn’t very fond of this Soong unfortunately. But I’m happy others liked him.
I’ll fondly remember 2022 as the year Prodigy surpassed TAS as the best Star Trek animated series ever.
I continue to stand with undaunted optimism that Strange New Worlds will finally give us the long-awaited all-singing, all-dancing musical episode at last!!! :)
LOL me too! I been saying this for months as well! And I’m not a musical person at all but I think it’s coming.
I’m personally not a fan of the musical idea (unless some sort of being forces the crew to do it) cause it’s almost like breaking the 4th wall to me. But I appreciate why others would want it.
Agreed it’s just a horrible idea and would lessen the impact and meaning of Star Trek.
Also, I’m pretty sure Will was just being sarcastic.
Oh yeah I’m not either. And obviously we can be wrong and it won’t happen. But I just think they will do it. Especially since Alex Kurtzman been saying for over a year now he wants to do a musical episode. And SNW can be very comedic and goofy at times. I can’t imagine it on Picard or Discovery since those shows always feel ultra serious. Maybe it will be an all Klingon opera group that visits the Enterprise lol.
I DO want a musical episode and I feel like Discovery has earned it. For real!
Oh yeah, I remember that talk we had!
https://trekmovie.com/2022/10/14/podcast-all-access-recaps-star-trek-at-nycc-and-goes-to-the-movies-with-lower-decks/
I’m not against it or anything but it’s not up there on my Star Trek bucket list lol. And if they do it, I really want that shout out on the podcast because I think I was the first person here to suggest it could happen! ;D
And if they don’t, I’ll pretend I never said it or deny it like a former U.S. President.
Love the sarcasm!
Nice year-end/year-beginning review!
It is always interesting to hear other fans of Trek when they discuss what they like and didn’t like from various shows and seasons. I am grateful that all of you have strong feelings about Trek and have good reasoning behind your thoughts. And yet, it still surprises me when someone who I have felt 100% in agreement with in the past has a 100% opposite reaction to something. It is puzzling but fun to hear.
For me, highlights of the year were:
– SNW having such a solid start. I liked about 90% of what they did. Great job all around.
– Prodigy finishing strongly. The best plotted out serialized Trek since DS9 season 7! Some of the little shortcuts the show takes bug me a little, but this show is as much Trek as any other.
– LDS turned out another great season. Maybe not quite as good as the last two, but only by a hair and they have all been excellent.
As for this year:
– I really hope Picard comes through with a great season (which would be its first, IMO). The cast reunion is a wonderful thing to look forward to. I just hope they haven’t tried to overpack it with fan service-y things (the podcast discussion was spot on about past seasons having too many incomplete stories and unfulfilled bits) which detract from the actual story. And I am worried about the main villain.
– I hope Discovery improves this year. It has never been bad, but at best it has been very uneven and has missed opportunities. Hopefully season 5’s new “fun” approach will result in a season that focuses on our core characters and builds on them as a family.
– I can’t wait to see T’lynn on LDS for real! And I hope the show continues to stretch itself and stretch the exploration of what it means to be a lower decker – on the Cerritos, in Starfleet, in the Federation, etc. And I hope they don’t get overly comfortable with doing one “movie” episode and one “weird” episode each season – that could get boring.
– I hope SNW season 2 pushes their stories more. I like the approach to using the episodic nature to try different genres, but I want them to get a little less dependent on TOS or other Trek tropes and would like a little more focus on their new characters (Una, Ortegas, La’an) and redefined ones (Chapel and Uhura). And I really hope they are proven right with their casting of Wesley when we get to see him acting as a younger, Prime Universe Kirk.
– I can’t wait for an announcement of what is next for Trek – hopefully a new 25th century show with some legacy characters guiding a new generation? And maybe even a proper follow-up for my fav DS9!
My analysis concludes that half of the Strange New episodes were dreck. Not so unusual a batting average for Star Trek but one would hope with only ten eps they could pull up that percentage.
I honestly liked most of the episodes, but even if I didn’t I still think SNW has a much better batting average than Discovery and definitely Picard and that’s any of their seasons so far.
That’s quite an analysis.
I agree. About half of those I’ll be skipping on rewatch.
Honestly there was only 1 I really didn’t care for and that was the holodeck’ish ep
You don’t know what dreck is if you classify any episodes of SNW as such.
I agree re: SNW “dreck”; though I do think “Elysian Kingdom” is half a good idea (M’Benga’s kid and his sacrifice for her new life – though that is even undercut by the “all’s ok in the end” ending) and half underwhelming/pointless (if fun for the cast) diversion. The rest of the season was good to great!
Yeah Elysian Kingdom could’ve been a little stronger and on the weaker side but I just love that they did it. I’m a huge fan of weird trippy Star Trek and happy to see one of the live action shows doing more of it.
I found that the weakest episode but liked it more when I rewatched it.
I think SNW is still trying to find the right tone. And since these are alll stand alone episodes, it is nothing wrong to experiment a bit to see what viewers like and don’t like.
S1 of DSC also tried to find the right tone and corrected some stuff. Thanks to this we got SNW! Unfortunately DSC didn’t get better (for my taste) and I still prefer S1 besides its flaws.
Of all new shows Prodigy was the one I cared less before I saw it. It turned out to be the biggest surprise. Style-wise it couldn’t be any further from Star Trek. But even if the characters are too childish, the story-telling is very mature (way more adult than LDS) and has a great continuity other shows don’t have.
Canon-wise this is the closest show to post VOY/Nemesis-Trek we’ve (or I’ve) been longing to see for 20 years. Sorry, Picard. You didn’t deliver.
So Prodigy IMHO is the furthest and closest new Trek at the same time.
Hmm. From what the creators have said about SNW, it doesn’t sound like they are trying to find their tone, but rather just exploring all the genre/tones opportunities. But maybe they are (and don’t even know it) and at some point will settle into something a little more regular?
But isn’t that almost the same? Exploring is also trying. I’m shure the creators explore all the genre/tones to see what works and what doesn’t and they surely listen to the fans. I mean, the creation of SNW itself is the result of that. The fans liked Pike and Spock and wanted to have a more brighter and lighter show. Now they got it. Although they overdid it on some parts. Crew members talking in a not so serious tone to the captain? That was a bit too much.
i have to positively say 2022 has been the best Star Trek for me in decades since the 90s. Discovery and Picard last year once again sadly felt pretty ‘meh’ but SNW, LDS and PRO all knocked it out of the park for me. Not every episode was perfect and I still think season 2 of LDS was a bit stronger than season 3 but I really can’t complain about any of these shows. And like LDS, Prodigy really surprised me the most. I thought SNW was going to be my favorite season of Trek this year, but it ended up being the kid’s show. Maybe I’m just sucker for having two Janeways on a show lol, but it was so much fun and my favorite in the modern era.
I’m really excited for this year too. Despite my issues with Picard, I’m hoping third time will be the charm and that show will go out big with the TNG cast back which I’m excited about the most. And I can’t wait to see what is going to happen with LDS, SNW and definitely PRO next. And we’re getting a new Enterprise and most likely a new Voyager!!!
And I always say it’s fun to see Star Trek in so many time periods at once. While I am enjoy the 24th seasons shows, I am excited about the next 25th season show the most. I think most fans are for obvious reasons.
It’s really a great time to be a fan! :)
Agreed (as usual lol). When ST was coming back in 2009 I was so excited and even though that movie was a lot of fun, nothing about it felt Star Trek to me at all. Ditto with the rest of Kelvin. Then when Discovery was greenlit I was excited all over again and I won’t go there. Then we got Picard green lit and uugghh we have possibly the best captain back in action so the character is there but nothing about this was Trek to me.
LDS is great and so much fun and I love it but in a way it seems as much a parody to me as an actual Star Trek show. At least it did in season 1. The lastest season seemed much more real to me.
But when Prodigy and then SNW came out, wow, it feels like I finally got the real Trek era back and its been so much of a fun ride.
“(LDS)” seems as much a parody to me as an actual Star Trek show.”
Exactly. If CBS would simply back off the canon proclamation on LDS and simply say it’s a Star Trek parody, it would take away that mental block to full enjoyment I have when I watch the show because I know a lot of stuff can’t or shouldn’t happen in the Star Trek future history.
Yes. The tonality is just too different for me. Parody? Sure!
Prodigy manages to bend the vibe/idiom without breathing it, somehow.
But YMMV, IDIC, & LLAP, LOL!
Ack, “breaking,” not “breathing.” Or maybe I’m onto some other layer of meaning subconsciously…
LOL yeah we usually do agree on everything!
I been more of a fan of NuTrek than not a fan overall. But for me, I haven’t fallen in love with it until we got Lower Decks and then the other shows. I always say I do like the Kelvin movies, but I was never that excited about them and the movies weren’t really made for me. And that’s OK, not everything has to be for everybody. I just look at them as fun distractions and not the way I do on the level of the previous shows and movies. And I wasn’t a fan doing a reboot in general but it was definitely the right way to go at the time and overall I did like them. But now I really want them to do something else with the movie series now that Kelvin movies has ran out of gas but Paramount has been clueless what to do with it since 2016 and after the latest debacle will probably remain that way for a long time.
I spoken so much about Discovery it’s just nothing more I can keep saying about that show. Again like the Kelvin movies I wasn’t a huge fan from the beginning being a prequel but still happy to get a new Trek show. But then it ended up being a bad prequel at that. Now it’s no longer a prequel and it’s still bad lol. At this point I’ve kind of given up on the show but maybe season 5 will surprise me? Just don’t really care and the last time I felt that was was the early days of Enterprise. I just think fans have a hard time with Discovery for a lot of reasons and I don’t know if it will ever improve unfortunately. Dude I’m worried it can get worse lol.
Picard was definitely the first thing I was truly excited about. No disclaimers at all. I was open to anything they did with that show and unfortunately while there has been some strong episodes in both seasons, they just been huge let downs for me. Season 1 was for the most part decent but how they ended it really sucked the life out of it. And they could’ve told that season with half the episodes. Season 2 was more bad but I love the first two episodes. Again, very classic Trek. I rewatched The Stargazer 2 weeks ago. Picard had the best potential out of all the new shows and movies and wasted it.
But all the shows after that has just been a breath of fresh air. For one they all feel like a return to the 90s story telling again. I do wish SNW wouldn’t copy stuff so much but I guess they want to return to the type of stories fans missed and it’s working IMO. And I hear you about LDS, but sounds like you are enjoying it more now. But PRO, LDS and SNW is just a return to Star Trek I feel has been missing since Enterprise, just fun one off adventures again. I hope they continue doing that.
it does feel like the 90s again, we even have another All Good Things on its way, all we need is a Generations style crossover film and a TIME magazine cover :D
Strange New Worlds is the best Trek show for me since Deep Space Nine. I don’t get at all the carping about the Gorn. The Gorn episodes were like movies in their suspense and production quality.
Like a movie about Aliens you might say.
Trek has done its own version of movies since the first season of TOS. The important part is that the story is well told.
Just because many of us hadn’t seen The 1957 film “The Enemy Below” doesn’t mean that it didn’t directly inform the submarine-like suspenseful warfare episodes many of would love to see recaptured.
I also happen think Voyager’s ‘The Thaw’ was better than “It” which inspired the episode.
The difference there is that Balance of Terror told us something about Romulans as people, whereas the SNW episode just made the Gorn threatening monsters. So while it may have been a successful remake of Aliens, I don’t think it was a successful Star Trek episode. The trick is to bring what makes Trek unique to the thing they’re remaking, not the other way around.
The Gorn are clearly not a ‘one and done’ enemy alien species, especially as they now link into both Uhura and La’an’s character arcs. It’s clearly one of the serialized aspects of this otherwise episodic show.
So, I think this is a premature criticism.
If at the end of SNW’s run we see no potential for anything else in adult Gorn such that Kirk can have his moment in Arena, then I can agree.
The Gorn are in pretty much the same state of reveal as the Borg were in TNG’s ‘Q Who?’ At that point, we as an audience didn’t say ‘Not Trek!!!’, rather we said “Wow, that’s different and challenging, it looks like there’s more to come.’
Two things about that, though. 1) we didn’t have an established story about the Borg already that was contradicted there, and 2) as Borg stories evolved (and yes, there were some discrepancies along the way), they realized that they didn’t have anywhere to go with a villain that had no nuance. Every new TNG episode with the Borg in it gave us something new about them—we got Hugh in our third one. And when Enterprise, as a prequel, wanted to do something with the Borg, they worked hard to make sure they weren’t contradicting the future that had already been written. Also, the Borg were interesting simply in concept! Everything about them was new and different. I’m not sure what’s interesting about “these monsters want to kill you.” That said, people LOVE the Alien movies and monster movies in general and I do not. So while I don’t like using the Gorn and wish they had invented their own species, I also am not super interested in that type of story until the message shifts from “kill them before they kill you.”
I would be more apt to agree with this wait and see approach if Akiva Goldsman hadn’t said something to the effect of the Gorn being “evil.” Maybe they’ll change this in the future, but I have to judge these episodes and their creators with the information given to me here in the present.
As such, the episode seemed to me to be a simple Aliens copy without adding anything significant to the Alien horror formula (I didn’t find it scary) or really to the Gorn either. I mean, I need a little more than details about how they reproduce with spit or whatever. How about something with their language? Philosophy? Anything would be good. Even the Borg were given more in their first outing.
I agree about the quality of the production. And Memento Mori was great in how well done and suspenseful it was. “All Who Wander” was a little too derivative of the Aliens franchise to me, but all the other stuff in that episode (with Uhura and Hemmer, and the great alien makeup on the blue guy) made up for it.
I also don’t get people’s issue with the portrayal of the Gorn. There is no way that a modern Trek production (well, at least SNW) had the intention of keeping them as a one-note, always evil enemy. There will be layers to the Gorn, their society, etc. that I am sure the show intends to explore; we just have to give the show time.
I very much hope you are correct on that last point.
I also don’t get people’s issue with the portrayal of the Gorn. There is no way that a modern Trek production (well, at least SNW) had the intention of keeping them as a one-note, always evil enemy. There will be layers to the Gorn, their society, etc. that I am sure the show intends to explore; we just have to give the show time.
Well said. In addition, I saw nothing in Arena in that Gorn’s actions that led me to believe that they could be reasoned with or have any empathy for another race, so what I hope to learn in future eps is why they are that way — there should be some story layers added to explain this, and I’m sure that is what they have in mind.
I loved the Gorn eps too. They brought a level of horror to Trek that it has frankly never really had before and it was great. I just wish it was a species that wasn’t called “Gorn”. And the reason I say that is SNW defies some things that Arena dictates about the Gorn such as the fact that they do not leave their territory and prey on other species and stuff like that. The whole point of Arena was that the battle between the Gorn and Starfleet was a giant misunderstanding due to the lack of ability to communicate.
I don’t think Arena is about the lack of ability to communicate. The Gorn specifically set a trap and lure the Enterprise in with false communications. The Gorn could communicate if they wanted to, but they want to punish us for the incursion into their territory. The larger point of the story is Kirk not giving into his baser instincts to get revenge.
Agreed. That Gorn was not interested in reasoning. It was only the Metrons and Kirk who postulated that perhaps it was due to miscommunication, but that was them naively assigning their values onto the Gorns — that Gorn never said or communicated anything like that in the ep.
I think fans need to watch that ep again an evaluate what actions and communications that Gorn uses, and NOT what Kirk and Metron postulate as the reasoning for the Gorn’s behavior, because that is just assigning their own value set to that Gorn’s behavior.
The Gorns are intelligent monsters.
My two cents on 2022:
-DSC S4 was my favourite season of DSC since S2. Loved the final couple of episodes focusing on the 10C, and the addition of Rillak. Hoping we get to see some more inter working of the federation in the future.
-PIC S2 missed the mark for me, but the best parts IMO were the 25th century starfleet elements that bookended the season, hoping that bodes well for S3.
– LDS S3 was strong and consistent, and enjoyed that it got the opportunity to dive a little deeper into some of the characters.
– SNW S1 was my favourite of the year (perhaps my favourite season of Trek in general?). No notes.
– PRO S1 was the biggest surprise for me. I was not interested in the premise at all when it was announced but it grew on me week by week and I really ended up caring about the characters and story.
I want to see what those 32nd century ships can do. I want to see 32nd century tech do some wild and crazy stuff. It’s been 900 years, lets see how far tech has come.
My #1 Star Trek highlight of 2022 was what remained of season one of Prodigy.
Same!
You asked about which legacy characters should make an appearance on Lower Decks…
Well, it’s inconceivable that a Star Trek comedy set in the late 24th century has not yet paid a visit to Grand Nagus Rom. What are we waiting for?
Genius idea!
Over the course of DS9 Rom became one of my very favorite secondary characters. I would love this.
Thanks as ever for the podcast. I particularly like Tony’s suggestion of having legacy characters from Enterprise appear on LDS. In my opinion, it was not a bad show by any means and yet it feels largely forgotten by fandom. Never seems to get the love!
I also keep hoping that Matt and Shuttle Pod crew will do a deep dive into it someday.
ENT is on our list to do at some point, some of the team need to do a re-watch since it’s been years. And there’s a lot of good TV shows out there now competing for their free time, so it just hasn’t happened.
I don’t think Enterprise is forgotten at all. I talk about it multiple times a week on Reddit. It’s just hard when that show is a century away from anything else going on unless you obviously just base something in that century.
I’m still pulling for a season 5! Let a fanboy dream! ;)
That was a great convo and HNY to Trek!
One of the unexpected highlights of this holiday season was meeting new people at parties and actually having deep convos about all this Trek- people are watching the new Treks.
It got me thinking about how we actually watch Trek now as compared to the past. For most of us, with schedules that caused us to miss episodes when they were broadcast, it could be years for us to catch up to something we read was great, or terrible. That was me for sure!
Now, however, we can watch new episodes at our convenience and really debate. That, in and of itself, it pretty cool.
Interesting. For me it’s just a continuation with different technologies. The last time I watched a show on the broadcast schedule was in the early 80s.
My experience of 90s Trek was very much watching at convenience and social debate, whether as a grad student or young working adult.
The VCR, and the ability to program it, was a must for any students who wanted to indulge in TV. Watching any show needed to happen around studying, problem sets, study groups and research so time shifting was essential. When I started working, it was no better as the hours were long.
In my set, we watched each episode 2-3 times in first run, and had watch parties for the season finales and premieres. We’d even rent the VHS sets and binge past seasons in the summer hiatus. Monthly mimeoed fanzines were still a thing in the early years of TNG, but bulletin boards quickly became the thing in the 90s.
What I can say is that the numbers and diversity of people engaging in the conversation and the participation of people beyond North America has greatly increased since the 90s.
A good friend still has boxes of the VHS tapes he recorded back then. He loves the fact that they still have the commercials!
I don’t understand why it’s so odd to some of the hosts that Saru retains his rank as captain while being the First Officer. Star Trek V and VI had three officers with the rank of captain: Kirk, Spock, and Scotty. They simply distinguished between rank and position: commanding officer, first officer, chief engineer.
They want Doug Jones to stay and he has great chemistry as Sonequa’s right hand man. Plus given the crew’s unique identity as crew from the past, it also makes sense that Starfleet would think they work best by staying together.
I thought about the TOS movies. In-universe that would still be an unusual situation. You wouldn’t normally see that, typically veterans like that would be spread around a fleet.
In a post-Burn Starfleet where you’d need more captains, in theory Starfleet Command would want Saru out there helping to rebuild the Federation on his own ship.
Obviously, in the real world we want Doug Jones with Sonequa together, like you said.
Tony/Laurie,
I loved this episode of All Access. It was a fantastic idea to bring in Matt and Subrina to discuss 2022.
Subrina was great. Like her, I’m not the biggest TNG fan either, but I’m excited about the return of Levar Burton and Michael Dorn. So I’m on board.
I’m also glad Subrina brought up that Spock does not volunteer family information at all. I was yelling in the kitchen, “Exactly!”
And I love Sonequa too. She is my favorite captain alongside Sisko. I loved her redemption journey from mutineer to reconnecting with Spock to traveling hundreds of years to the future to rekindle the Federation. I’m rewatching Disco S4 on Bluray and I love this cast. I agree that Owo and Rhys and other cast members need more airtime. Culber and Stamets are my favorite couple, second to B’ elana and Tom. But what I love the most, is that S4 introduced a science fiction story, new aliens, and had a Roddenberry-esque message. People criticize it as being a slog, but I felt that’s the point. Not having the answers was part of the experience because we didn’t have all the answers in the pandemic and they capitalized on that frustration. Maybe too much lol. Discovery can be bizarre but I feel that its existence on the fringe frees it from being tied down to existing lore and allows experimentation.
2022 was a great year for trek shows and podcasts! I’m looking forward to another 51 episodes.
LLAP!
I honestly was so up and down with Discovery in season 4 I’m just not feeling the show much. But I will say the one big positive (and said this in the past) I actually liked Burnham as captain. I always been hot and cold with the character too but I really liked her this season. And way less crying compared to other seasons at least. Not my favorite or anything but decent. But I like all the captains basically although Freeman could be better, but it’s a comedy, so you roll with it!
I just hope the Klingons on SNW look more like the new Worf from Picard and less like the Klingons from Discovery, but I somehow doubt it.
It was a good one. I didn’t know Subrina, but she had me lauging out loud! haha. Thanks for that.
You guys were talking about how every season coming up is supposed to be bigger, better, more this, more that, according to the show runners and actors. To me that all feels so American (don’t shoot me). It actually annoys me. Why does everything have to be bigger, better, the first this, the most that? Please just make good Star Trek. Not every episode has to be a gd world record!
Okay, blockage cleared. Looking forward to more ‘just’ good Trek.
The doctor on the new Prodigy ship should be Julian Bashir. He would be a perfect fit for the show that wouldn’t feel like fan service. Not that I’m against fanservice entirely. It was the primary reason I started watching Prodigy in the first place.