Jonathan Frakes Feels The Pain Of ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Ending, Talks Up Plan For Series Finale

A week ago, Paramount+ broke the news that the upcoming fifth season of Star Trek: Discovery will be the last. We have heard from members of the cast and crew already about the news, and now TNG veteran and regular Discovery director Jonathan Frakes is weighing in, adding some insight into how the show will wrap up.

Frakes “disappointed” Disco is ending

Speaking to Cinemablend, Jonathan Frakes talked about how the news of the Discovery ending in season 5 felt to him personally:

I’m disappointed. In many ways, it was my new home show. When I started on that show in season 1, it was a return to the Star Trek world for me. So I had a very strong connection [to it]… I feel the pain. It’s show business, but it still sucks.

Jonathan Frakes has directed six episodes across four seasons of Star Trek: Discovery, only surpassed by producing director Olatunde Osunsanmi.

Jonathan Frakes with Sonequa Martin-Green and Mary Wiseman directing the season 1 episode “Despite Yourself”

New series finale is “stunning”

Principal production on season 5 wrapped up last November, but because of the decision to end the show with the fifth season, there will be some additional production to “help craft a conclusion for the series.” In his interview with Cinemablend, Frakes talked about this:

I think they’ve got a stunning plan for a very satisfying ending.

Frakes himself returned to work behind the camera for season 5. Speaking to TrekMovie last year, Frakes revealed he directed the penultimate episode of the 10-episode (now final) season.

Jonathan Frakes with Doug Jones and Sonequa Martin-Green on the set of the season 4 episode “Stormy Weather”

Skeptical about more 32nd-century Trek

As for a potential follow-up show set in the 32nd century (like perhaps the much talked about Starfleet Academy series), Frakes expressed skepticism. When asked about the possibility of more 32nd-century adventures, the Trek vet said “I wouldn’t hold my breath.” Even though past comments from both Alex Kurtzman and Paramount+ execs have teased the launch of the Academy series, the new realities of cost-cutting in the streaming market may be getting in the way of these plans (as outlined in a TrekMovie analysis posted before the Discovery news).

Say goodbye in 2024

Paramount+ has set the debut of the fifth and final season of Star Trek: Discovery to early 2024. According to reports, there will be some additional shooting this year to make the season finale into a proper series finale.

A trailer for season 5 was released at New York Comic Con last October. Watch it below:

Discovery seasons 1 through 4 are currently streaming exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S. Internationally, the series is available on Paramount+ in Australia, Italy, Latin America, the U.K. and South Korea. It will also stream exclusively on Paramount+ in Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland and Austria later this year. In Canada, it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.

Keep up with news for the Star Trek Universe at

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Don’t think they’ll do the Academy series. If Paramount is tightening their belt, we’re not going to get that AND a Titan spinoff. I’d rather have the Titan spinoff.

I think you’re probably right, but if for example, they made Riker the veteran leader and star of the Academy show, that might help get it made.

Frankly, I would rather see SNW become the ongoing flagship show that runs for a decade, and shorter-run shows like Star Trek: Titan, Starfleet Academy, and Section 31 each airing for 2-3 season, and perhaps even less on a schedule, rather than annually.

Frankly there’s a lot of ways Paramount can play this thanks to the freedom of streaming, allowing them to expand the franchise while still keeping expenses in check.

In today’s market, no Star Trek show is going to run for a decade. That’s just not possible, given how much an episode of Star Trek costs.

First off you’re taking me far too literally. Second, you’re just wrong. If a show continues to pull in big numbers, it will continue. Is that likely? Maybe not. But again, we’re talking pipe dreams here.

My larger point was that the network should embrace the idea of short runs. Not every show needs to go for 5-7 years, and can be planned as a 2-3 season series, or even less.

The solution is animation. This is why I really hope great shows like Lower Decks and Prodigy stay for a long time. These two shows have been a great and unexpected surprise. And they are the perfect bridge between live action productions. Animation have a better ROI, if this is what really move these streaming executives.

I have personally set my mind to 7 seasons, but this is because STNG, DS9 and Voyager. I accept we are at a different time. But as a Star Trek fan, wish we have a continuous/ongoing show all year around.

I read that for their metrics (in Wall Street) they urgently need permanent subscribers. If they respect the Star Trek audience, getting at least a new episode every week, that could help (Paramount+) to attract more users to pay for the whole year.

I wouldn’t be opposed to an adult animated drama. But while LDS and Prodigy are good, they don’t really serve the core fanbase.

You’ve always got to be growing your fanbase or it will just die off and so will your show. These two shows are doing a good job of growing that fanbase. If you were to only rely on existing fans then it would be a losing game as we haven’t found eternal life and are continuing to die off. I was disappointed with Discovery for reasons that will probably never stop irritating me. However there was also good here. Production values were good and Saru really turned out great. Kudos to the actor and makeup artists. If it weren’t for the absence of hair I could’ve really enjoyed the Klingons’ new look. Mixing it up a bit isn’t necessarily bad, but they made some bad choices with established alien races. Now if only they could give us longer seasons of SNW and avoid more blunders that would be nice. The latest season of Picard has been pretty good and would love for a new show to pick up where it leaves off timeline-wise.

You misread me somewhat: I’m not suggesting LDS and Prodigy have no place. Prodigy in particular is hugely important to attracting kids, who will grow into the next generation of adult fans, to help keep the franchise alive.

But if animation is going to be the format for another spin-off, it should be an adult-skewing drama, not a comedy or kids show, like the ones that already exist.

Frankly, I don’t see either of those being greenlit any time soon.

If neither is greenlit, that would leave just one potential live-action Star Trek series for 2024. I suppose that’s possible, but… I think it’s unlikely.

Why is that unlikely? Paramount+ needs to diversify its programming to attract more subscribers and ST is niche programming. At this point, if they had only so much money to spend and had to choose between a ST series or another Taylor Sheridan show, there’s no doubt in my mind which way they’d go.

Because I think it’s unlikely they’ll want just ten episodes of live action Star Trek per year. Considering 1923 cost $23M per episode and was well behind Picard in audience demand, I’m not sure a Sheridan spin-off is any more likely than a Trek spin-off.

The fact that their commercials still push Star Trek more than anything, i’d say it’s potentially more likely that they want more Trek than anything. The fact is, it’s the only globally recognized brand they have on TV right now.

1923 may well have attracted more new subscribers though, that’s the key. Trek is popular enough that it makes sense to make enough of it to air practically year-round, help retain the subscribers who only tune in for it. In theory they could just have the three shows if Prodigy keeps having 20 episode seasons, but that’s skewing things pretty heavily, no matter how much less animation costs. Star Trek makes a splash when it is live action. Having a prequel and a fresh 25th or 32nd century show balances things out better.

They’ll have two live action shows for 2024 if the rumours of SNW season three starting production soon are to be believed, as well as the last season of DISC.

Oh right, I forgot DSC was pushed to 2024. That may actually be why they pushed it back slightly. Give themselves time to prep the next spin-off, while still have 20 episodes of live action Trek for the year.

Try as I might, I can’t work up any enthusiasm for an Academy show. Why does anyone believe there’s a market for a show about people who are in training to become Starfleet personnel someday in the future. Picard always gets a tear in his eye about his Academy days…. studying and getting life lessons from Boothby. Does anyone really find this….. compelling?

Yes. There is definitely potential there. It’s astonishing how narrow-minded and insular fans have become. They have no imagination anymore, it seems.

anything can be compelling if it’s written, produced, and well-acted. I’m not particularly attached to the 32nd century however.

We are on the exact same page. I have no interest in the 32nd century, but who knows what a good team of writers can do. I am open minded to just about any concept, if the right people are behind it.

Okay, as you’re suggesting I’m being narrow minded and insular, where’s the potential in what amounts to a show that’s about the prep academy to enter Starfleet? Civilian Skippy, who’s dreamed of flying the stars since he was a kid, shows up at Starfleet Academy. Someone, somewhere is going to decide if he’s officer material, then he’s off to college for four years (think Annapolis). Oops, Skippy isn’t officer material (or washes out), so it’s off to Starfleet Academy Basic Training (think Great Lakes). Eight weeks there, then off to a specialty school for up to two years to learn whatever job it is Skippy is supposed to be doing. After all that, Skippy could still wash out, land some desk job as an Ensign shuffling paper on a Starbase, or it’s off to the Cerritos as transporter maintenance specialist. Academy hijinks’ might be amusing…..or it probably isn’t. Just how does an Academy show become Wagon Train to the Stars?

I’m not saying I have the answers, I’m saying there’s a world of possibilities. Just because you can’t see one doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

It is the wisest man who acknowledges that there is much he does not know.

No, you’re saying it would be a draw. The fans will love it. It’ll grow the base. I’m asking you why, and all you’ve done is deflect. In so much that my OP acknowledges I don’t see how watching Cadet Skippy navigate four years of classes at Starfleet Academy is of anymore interest then watching Boothby’s grass grow I’m saying this seems like a flawed concept. If you don’t, or can’t respond, you’re pretty much proving my point.

And AlphaPredator did not respond, so yeah, he proved your point, Phil.

I don’t think an academy show would be much of a draw, honestly.

If it looked good, had a good cast, and was well made, I have no doubt it would be a draw. The key is just making sure it has a good cast and is well made.

It’s a show about some schmuck making his way through four years of space college. But with great production values and beautiful people in the cast, people will watch. That’s what you’re selling here…

And here I get criticized for having a bad attitude lmao

I can’t help but imagine an Academy show as something like Riverdale, except instead of cults and supernatural elements, it would be aliens and science fiction instead.

I do wonder who the audience for an Academy show would be, I feel like if they’re trying to appeal to general teens and young adults, it’ll be those who already have an interest in Trek, those who aren’t interested probably wouldn’t get into Trek through a show like that.

I’d also assume that the Academy is also covering the basics, as Picard alluded to. Philosophy. Biology. Linguistics. A space bachelor’s degree.

If the Academy show is being groomed as programming for the YA market, it won’t look anything like the Trek we know. Discovery tried to shake things up a bit, and if comments here are any indication, it just had massive amounts of vitriol aimed at it for trying to be different. The legacy fan base would lose it’s s**t with a YA Trek show.

You seem very angry. I’m sorry you’ve had a bad day.

I’m not mad at all. Amused, actually. Kinda like listening to the folks who continue to insist the election was rigged but can’t produce any evidence to support the claim. You’re adamant it’ll be a draw, but have no idea why.

A YA show could be cute if it doesn’t take itself too seriously, but I’m not sure there’s a demand for it.

I doubt it would appeal the legacy fan base (although I’m not sure that’s the demographic Paramount is hoping to appeal to, most likely, they want to expand and appeal to different demographics), but I’m not sure it would appeal to YA viewers either.

Does the YA audience even care about ST? I’m not sure, but I kind of doubt it.

I doubt the general YA audience would care about Star Trek itself (why would they? Many haven’t even seen Star Trek before), which is why I don’t get what kind of an Academy show would be aiming towards.

I’ve read that, in the publishing industry, YA Sci-Fi is considered to be a hard sell, and I think that would also be the case with television. And honestly, if the Academy show is a YA show that preaches the values that Trek tends to promote (as in, being heavy in allegory), I feel like it would feel too preachy for an audience that sees themselves as young adults, with an emphasis on the adult part.

That said, I do think that if the Section 31 show gets made, that could be appealing to the YA audience (and general audiences) for its edginess, the whole idea of the “dark side” of a utopia.

I find that a little hard to believe given that some of the biggest franchises of the past 20 years were sci-fi / fantasy YA properties. Twilight, The Maze Runner, The Hunger Games, Divergent, Percy Jackson, the Narnia series, and let us not forget (with regrets) the Potterverse. Or on television, the entire Buffyverse, Arrowverse, etc.

I could see a Starfleet Academy show that’s a lot like HP mixed with elements of Buffy and even Top Gun.

Protagonist who’s born of tragedy, marked as special, forming a found family with other misfits, who discover / develop special skills over time; being antagonized by seniors / legacy students whose parents are Starfleet brass; facing tough challenges academically and personally; and confronting hidden threats to the Federation – an ongoing story that builds in seriousness over several seasons.

This means you can have menace-of-the-week stories mixed in with more personal B-stories and C-story threads.

Also, we could get an extended look at what Earth is like in Star Trek continuity – everyday life, what cities are like, where students live, politics, economics, etc (always as an allegory to the present day, of course.)

I wouldn’t set this in the 32nd century, but maybe around the time period of Picard.

Oh no, YA fantasy is an easy sell (and it’s one of the most popular YA genres), the franchises you’ve mentioned are fantasy, or the futuristic dystopian. None of them are sci-fi… Even Star Wars is more of a space opera, or a fantasy story set in space than sci-fi. (And by sci-fi, I mean something either with aliens, spaceships, or at least be based in science in some way… Cyberpunk doesn’t really count either.)

Dystopian themes and “dark” themes (even if it’s just stuff like conspiracies or criminals being recruited as assets… like the Suicide Squad) are popular with YA audiences, like with Maze Runner or Hunger Games. Which is why I think that Section 31 would be appealing to YA audiences.

Personally, I think a YA show set in an actual sci-fi setting would be cute, but I do think it would be very niche. Seeing the characters deal with the challenges that come with growing up, interpersonal dramas, academic stress and challenges, I don’t think that would appeal to most older fans, but I also don’t think it would appeal to the YA audience. Like yeah, it’s essentially the same thing as countless YA shows set in a high school/college, but without the fashion and possibly less drama.

A young cadet show could explore what happens if there is a sudden war that requires them to be conscripted. I would rather that than a teenage-focused show like 90210 in space, which would be horrible beyond belief. I fear they might be trying to capture a wider demographic, including teenagers and kids, which will likely result in something awful.

Great to read Jonathan Frakes talk highly about Discovery.

Out of all the current shows Discovery has been the best imo and it will be missed once the final season airs. I do hope we see these great group of characters again someday.

I would love if they eventually pulled a Picard in 10-15 years and did a Star Trek Burnham show with it following Michael’s life outside Starfleet and embracing her xenoanthropologist roots.

That would be fantastic. The way TV works nowadays, no show ever truly ends.

Indeed. There’s an entire generation of Trek fans who count Discovery as their entry point. In 15 years, a return of Burnham would be celebrated by them.

People been talking about doing a Star Trek Archer show, a character based from another show that got prematurely cancelled and that was nearly 20 years ago now/ So I can definitely people wanting a Burnham show. I’m not personally one of them, but she has her fans like all of them, so yeah it’s very possible.

And the way Star Trek nostalgia works, that show will probably be highly loved in the next 15 years as well.

I wouldn’t be opposed to a show about Archer, I still have yet to try ENT again but I care about the characters and it’s actually firmly in the middle of my personal Trek show rankings.

So yeah I agree, in around two decades, there will likely be people wanting that. And I’d support them in that.

Yep so would I. I’m not remotely sad Discovery is leaving, but I wasn’t sad about Enterprise leaving either. I don’t have to love every show personally though and as long as enough fans want to see these characters again, then I’m sure they will find a way at some point.

Ehhhhh…, I hated bakula as Archer.
Was never a bakula fan…., in ENT, he was always getting his Butt beat by someone. Best character hands down on ENT was Trip.
Unfortunately, He had the Kenny syndrome from south park.
Let’s find another way to kill him in the show.

That’s fair.

I don’t see that a lot of folks are clamoring for more Archer. I’ve no issue with Bakula, Orson Wells couldn’t do anything with Archer, either. The character was terrible, emotionally and intellectually constipated, with the charisma of a potted plant. Enterprise is the one show that should get reimagined. Pretend the old one dosen’t exist, and start over.

I also want another show set in the 32nd century too but with Paramount having money troubles and needing to cut costs i don’t see them continuing with their 5 shows a year plan at least not with the current budgets for shows.

I can see any future live action shows only having half(or even 2/3rds) the budget that Discovery/SNW has as they are both really expensive shows.

I never liked the 32nd century. They only went there in response to knee-jerk reactionary fans who whined about minor continuity problems. It was not a creative choice made because they felt it was the best thing for the show. I’m happy to steer clear of it.

No, I don’t like the vision of the future they envisioned. A broken federation and xenophobia everywhere, no thanks.

I actually hope one of the current shows undoes this vision of the future somehow, which makes it in an alternative future.

I too am hoping they eventually decide that Discovery actually went to an alternate future and not one associated with the Prime timeline. That whole burn thing with the kelpian child really killed the rest of the show for me.


Fully agreed. Not only was it ridiculously dystopian, it was also dull. 1000 years of change and we get…Somalia-style warlordism writ large. Ugh.

I’m one of the few others who really love the 32nd setting as well, but I can’t help feeling, being Discovery, they really squandered it as well and the whole Burn thing just fell into ridicule after learning it’s the fault of a Kelpian kid from 120 years ago, who is still oddly alive. (sigh).

But I would like to see another show continue in the setting, but no I’m not very hopeful either, especially after what Frakes said.

Tv execs are listening to the reaction of all the shows. Discoverys has all but cooled off and any associated academy show as well is in the bin, quite possibly that section 31 one as well.

Titan series surely on the cards just for the lure of staying in the 25th century where old and new characters can mix.

I agree here, and I think it’s also possible a third live-action series will be greenlit for an early 2025 slot. It might seem unlikely, but we’re talking 2 years out, by which time LDS may come to a natural end as well.

A Titan series full of legacy characters sure is something fans would want. But let’s put ourselves in the shoes of a Paramount programming exec. Does that sound like something that will make people (other than ST fans) subscribe to Par+? Hard to say.

They have data on whether it works already, just looking at their internal numbers on the subscriber impact of Picard season three thus far. This isn’t rocket science.

And yet I don’t think a Titan show would be “full of legacy characters.” My gut says two or three Seven as a series regular, and perhaps Riker and Picard as a recurring duo.

The main cast, assuming it were a spin-off based on what we see in S3 of Picard, would be Shaw, Seven, Sydney LaForge, Mura, T’Veen, and Esmar.

That’s a pretty fresh cast, if you ask me.

I hate to break it to you, and the rest of the folks here….
Picard will die in the last episode of picard.
You heard it hear 1st.
It was already hinted at by when they said they wanted to give TNG a proper send off.
He may not die like kirk did in a ribbon thingy…, but rest assure, picard will be Stewart’s last ST appearance.
He’s 82, and who has the energy, or wants to at that age to go in and do shoots all day.

He’s been relentlessly saying that he wants to do more, so unless that’s a complete deception, no, Picard will not be dying.

I’m gonna be silly and say: Jack Quaid could be a guest star sometimes.

What are they going to do with Lower Decks? Season after season of inside-baseball jokes, homages to past glory, fan service, lame comedy, etc.? Parody the parody?

I really have to believe this as well. No one ever even discusses an Academy show until it’s mentioned somewhere like here. But fans in general don’t seem particularly interested in it and like S31, probably a reason it keeps getting stalled. This was one of the shows discussed waaaaay back in 2018 being developed and it still feels on the back burner.

But everyone is screaming for a 25th century show and people been wanting that the second they heard Picard was done nearly a year ago. Now more than ever after what we’re getting in season 3.

That RT score for Picard, in the context of itsusers downvote campaigns for women and POC led genre fiction, sealed the deal. Paramount would rather downgrade Trek into entertainment for edgy bigots than stand by its values. The only black woman in the show is an unwed mother on drugs–get it? What is Picard but a warm blanket for the edgelords and bigots (many on this comment section) who prefer sugary fan service to even a speck of originality?

The fan service comment, hey whatever, but… while I agree that DSC was the bane of the right wing for its diversity: a show led by a woman of color, I think you’re taking it too far by insisting that anyone who likes Picard is a bigot because… what, it’s led by a white man?

Yeah, never said “anyone who likes Picard is a bigot”

Wrote, “Picard [is] but a warm blanket for the edgelords and bigots (many on this comment section) who prefer sugary fan service to even a speck of originality”

But some are, like RMB. That guy’s gone full tilt to the dark side.

By calling Picard “a warm blanket for edgelords and big*ts” you’re basically saying that its fans are edgelords and big*ts, whether that’s your intention or not.

Naming yourself AlphaPredator basically means you’re a rapist. See how stupid that sounds?

Just take the L, my dude.

…whatever it is you’re talking about, I don’t think it has anything to do with this article, which didn’t mention PIC at all. What’s an ‘edgelord?’

Also, SNW has more women than men in the show and is almost certain to get its third season.

There are strong women of color represented all over television and film, and they’ve been there for some time. I’m giving The Walking Dead a re-watch right now, as a good example, which was a ratings juggernaut in its day. Michonne and Sasha (Burnham, by the way), and more. There are many examples. Some of the writing for those women is good, some is bad, just like any other demographic.

It’s funny to me that Trek is being called “woke” by the right, and then this guy calls it the opposite

SNW has three white leads.
PIC has 4-5 white leads.

That’s a win for the RT bigots.

It’s kindve soured me to see one of the Picard show runners constantly hanging around and laughing with these bigots too

Matalas’s endorsement from anti-woke crusader Robert Meyer Burnett was an ugly mistake. And the fact that Inglorious Treksperts Mark also went to the mat for his friend – just gross. That show is a litmus test for the integrity of a television critic.

Yeah me too. It’s tiring. I don’t even look at what people think about Trek most of the time and this is the only Trek fan site I visit tbh. Because I’d rather not see the bigotry, I can see that in spades in my local news.

Do go on. Eye roll.

what is RT?

My problems with Disco had nothing to do with the casting and everything to do with the story and yeah – continuity. If they had just had the guts to say – new timeline, new generation, let’s go. I’m there for that. In fact, I think that’s what they should do with SNW instead of playing loosey-goosey and trying to make it fit and doing a bad job of it.

I was first in line on my couch, giddy with excitement for the first episode the first season. It went downhill from there about halfway through and just never gave me anything to care about. The cast is good; in fact, almost every cast ever in any Trek show or movie has been great. Some have just been underutilized, which is the case with Disco imo.

I’ve not loved any of the story or execution of any season of Picard yet either so… – but that’s not the cast fault there either. It’s all about writing and story for me.

RT referenced here is Rotten Tomatoes, the film and TV review site, I believe.

I think that’s what they should do with SNW instead of playing loosey-goosey….Yes. This, exactly. That would be great.

I had the same excitement when DSC premiered, couldn’t wait for it to start. It was such a let-down at the time to realize it was, well, what it was. If they’d called it a different timeline that would have made more sense to me, but wouldn’t have improved the show as far as I was concerned. Dropped out at the end of S2, with no regrets.

You should create a chart indicating exactly how many people from which categories shows should be required to use, and make sure you specify the maximum number of white people allowed. I think that would be helpful to everyone.

You can argue Discovery isn’t always doing D&I proud either. Gray the walking metaphor, Culber the hastily reversed “Bury your gays” trope, Commander Bryce apparently being interchangeable with Lt. Christopher whenever Ronnie Rowe Jr. was busy, Airiam’s only featured episode deserving significant side eye from the disabled community… The most diverse show of them all and it’s still easy to poke holes in how it presents minorities.

The point is that hearts of the people making these shows are in the right place and they are sincerely trying. To start tallying up the whites in a Star Trek show’s cast and making inflammatory remarks that the producers are happily cafting a show that’s a safe haven for bigots… It’s not productive.

The issue here anyway starts with 198-whatever (idr the exact year, I wasn’t alive yet) when TNG came out. When Geordi was pretty much the token person of color because blah blah blah Worf doesn’t count, he’s not human. (Worf does count though.) And all three white women never got to do much, and then one was killed off at least twice.

Then with the new characters for the season, you have a bunch of people of color who haven’t gotten to do much yet. The captain, a white man, who also hasn’t done much yet but be set up as being mean and cruel for having trauma (which I especially gotta hit with 🙄). Then after that it’s ??? Who even knows. Seven of Nine was always written weird (yes I’m saying this as a VOY fan), and Raffi, the one character returning from the previous two seasons, was also always written in bad and weird ways. The show was more on the diverse end before (but not by much) but now that you have this reunion, it becomes more glaringly obvious that it was originally a TNG problem. Which is part of why I could never get into it.

That’s an interesting perspective, though I think I need more elaboration about what being “written weird” means.

I grew up with TNG, and I really didn’t look at it through the lens of being too white. Geordi never felt token to me, ditto Worf and Guinan. LeVar Burton was even the most famous member of the cast when the show started. But by the time Voyager premiered, I did feel like Kim and Chakotay were perhaps there for diversity first, character opportunities second. But again, it’s not the worst initial gesture, it’s just a shame when the follow through to make a good character doesn’t happen.

I don’t come from a white family, but lack of diversity has rarely been a criteria that stops me from getting into an English language show or movie. I do seek out something that is more diverse on purpose at times, and there are things I notice like thankless/diminished roles for women and certain minorities, both historically and today, but I havent often found myself alienated by a preponderance of Caucasian actors. Maybe that’s because the community I grew up in was predominantly white, so I’m used to it. It’s interesting what biases creep into our habits, I appreciate this moment of taking stock in that.

I can’t really put the words together to explain it right now. It’s not exactly bad writing but it’s not good writing either. It can be better and mostly leans towards the bad. If that makes any sense.

When I say Geordi was the token one, if you look at the development of the character before the show aired, yeah, he absolutely was. He was also the token character for being blind imo. Now of course I’m not blind so I can’t speak for those who are, I’m just near sighted.

I do agree with Harry and Chakotay, they also felt like token characters, and I would never say it wasn’t with good intentions, but they could always always do better. I’m not white either, I’m more picky about what I watch though. Maybe it’s just that I grew up in the Southern US so I see things differently.

You continue to make great points, Ian! Chakotay and Kim: noble inclusions that never lived up to their potential, because producers never put effort into finding ways to explore what made them unique and/or interesting.

I’ve always said, Voyager was 170+ episodes of wasted potential, and that’s just one more area that proves true.

Ian, you make good points about interpretation. Discovery was not perfect in its representation, and fell victim to a few regrettable stereotypes. Thanks for bringing that up, as its important to note that it wasn’t perfect, even if the producers had the right intention. We should always be striving to do better, and too many people seem to think that just because we are doing better, the job is done.

It’s all a learning process, and I may never get it quite right. I push for D&I hiring at my work when it comes to considering directors, production companies, DPs and talent. It’s important to do, but sometimes the reasons behind it aren’t totally altruistic. I’m still representing a company that doesn’t want to look bad because it hires too many white men. We just try to make things merit-based while also looking for talent in new places to combat unintentional bias, but sometimes it does mean disqualifying someone just because they are not a minority or a woman. It’s easy to feel a bit conflicted about that even with the best of intentions.

So with Trek, at least TOS and Roddenberry set a precedent – these casts must represent Starship Earth and a society that is more colorblind and less prejudicial in the ways our society can be. It’s a never ending balance to try to pull off though – there’s discussion here of how Geordi could be construed as a token black character, but then we also got Sisko and Burnham. Hoshi, Chakotay, Tuvok, Sulu, Uhura, Kim, Mayweather, Gray, Discovery’s bridge crew, Raffi… they all can be seen as positive efforts but also lacking essential qualities that would have made their representation sing. And at the same time they sit alongside the likes of Worf, Georgiou, Janeway, Bashir, Guinan, Mariner, Rios, Rutherford, Stamets & Culber, SNW Uhura, and Reno as moving the needle in the best Trek traditions.

It’s hard to qualify what makes for a success when at the end of the day most shows have a hit or miss track record for their characters, regardless of casting, Trek is no exception. Regardless of the intentions behind D&I in media, I think you avoid the whiff of tokenism by making compelling characters. Only thing is that if it was that easy then we’d have nothing to debate here!

Picard Season 3 is a ten-episode farewell to a show called Star Trek: The Next Generation from the late 20th century. SNW was made in response to fan enthusiasm to Mount, Peck, and Romijn. And FYI, judging by their video titles, the right-wing Youtube ranters view SNW as woke trash. So you’re mostly just talking nonsense that you made up in your head.

Your nonsense is so laughable it isn’t even worth engaging with.

Yes, that must sting a bit for him, DSC was his ticket back into the franchise. And despite what I think of the writing and the show itself, that’s no reflection upon the cast and crew. They seem a tight-knit bunch here from the cheap seats, and it’s clear Frakes got along with everyone very well.

No interest whatsoever in an Academy series here, but PRO surprised me with how much I like it, so who knows?

I have to admit I don’t see a reason for a Starfleet Academy series. I also don’t see a reason for a Section 31 show. Star Trek is at its best when it’s about exploration.

Totally disagree. Star Trek is at its best when its written well. TNG S1 was about exploration and is one of the lowest points the franchise has ever seen. The most beloved Trek movies are not about exploration either.

Totally agreed. I was going to mention my disdain at the thought of a Sec. 31 show as well, but didn’t want to come off as too negative. As others have pointed out, the only way I can see a show based on 31 working is to time-travel and visit different Trek eras, which would likely be cost prohibitive and would need to be written really, really well.

Between a S31 show and an Academy show I’m FAR more interested in an Academy show. I think it would be a bit harder to make work than your traditional ship board show and I don’t think Secret Hideout is up to it of course. But it can be done and done well. Setting it in the right era would be a good start but there are still hurdles. I would vote for late TOS era but that’s me as that gap is one I’d love to see fleshed out at some point. That said it’s not that high on my list of Trek concepts I’d like to see.

…if you’re talking about exploring the time between TUC and TNG, ML, yes, I’ve always been interested in what could take place in that 70-80 year gap of time myself.

That is exactly the era I’d love to see explored more.

Totally agree. Ripe for exploration, and the perfect use of a prequel setting.

I would like to see a show about the Enterprise C

Agree as well. I think a post-TUC/TNG prequel show would work great in this timeline as well. I always wanted to see how they got into a war with the Cardassians for example, that would be a great time to show it.

Please add my name to the list of people clamouring for a post-TUC show. I love the monster maroons, the ship design etc of that period.

I was not much enthused for a show about Cassian Andor until it snuck up on me to the point where I’m hailing it as Star Wars’ DS9.

You never know!

I still haven’t watched Andor, but who the heck was excited about that when it felt like a desperation series, like they scraped the bottom of the SW barrel for a character to lead a spin-off… then it became critically acclaimed! You never know, indeed.

I was going to make that point about being open-minded about an Academy series, as Prodigy was such a pleasant surprise for most, but you made it for me!

I am still hoping for an Academy show in the 32nd/33rd century. Nothing bores me more than time travel, and I’d rather skip over the time ships and temporal cold war. The far future provides a way to get back to real exploration.

To be fair, the idea of a spinoff being a time travel show is only fan speculation at this point.

How about a show that takes place in the 23rd Century TOS Film series era? I really think there are a ton of stories that can be told during that period, all we have are six films, some random flash back scenes in TNG and Voyager. I don’t think we need a Sulu show, but there is 80 years of time between TOS films and TNG, I think it’s ripe for some good storytelling.

Will season five have additional episodes for the final

Only reshoots for the existing finale have been announced.

No, it just sounds like they redoing the final episode a bit. People seem to think they are making more episodes that doesn’t sound remotely the case.

If someone told you during that rickety Comic Con launch video that Discovery would last five seasons and Paramount would spend over $500 million to produce it, I think you’d be very happy with that, and on those measures alone, I don’t think the show can be considered anything other than a success. That people still love Voyager and Enterprise (two blechs from me when they premiered in real time) proves this show will have an audience for generations. Again, a success by any measure.

Louder for Nerdrotic fans in the back.

Their design of the Enterprise and bridge in season 2 were awesome.

Every Star Trek show has fans, I don’t think that’s really in question. People were disappointed when Enterprise were cancelled back in 05 just like others are about this. The issue just seems to be, like Enterprise, the show was becoming too costly and probably getting bigger drop offs of people watching season by season.

So yeah, the show is still a success because it at least got this far. As I been saying many times already, very few streaming shows even go past the fifth season. Some do of course but those shows probably still get huge views or at least solid ones. Discovery was already near the end anyway, it seem more like a question could they have one more season to end it properly (or even a shortened season like five episodes or something) and the answer was no unfortunately.

I don’t think Discovery will just disappear although it probably won’t be referenced much given it’s 800 years into the future lol. But it will definitely be a part of the franchise as all the others just the same.

I think if SNW and Picard hadn’t been so well received, DSC would get more seasons. It’s just that in comparison, it no longer warrants continuation, when they could put more eggs into those baskets (SNW Season 3, a Picard spin-off, etc)

Maybe, but again listening to some people here, they were saying Discovery was well received, mostly by new fans. And maybe it was, but clearly it wasn’t enough. ;)

As I said in the original thread when they announced its cancellation, I don’t pretend to know obviously. But it always made sense the show was just getting older and more expensive anyway and once we heard Paramount wanted to do more belt tightening it made sense that and Picard would be the first on the chopping block. And since Picard was already ending than DIS was easily next.

But yes, all that said, if Picard season 3 is hitting on all cylinders then I can see it getting a spin off show. I don’t really think that was ever in doubt, it’s more of a question of what we’re getting specifically. Will it be a costly legacy show or something with mostly new characters (and I’m for either one, I just care more about the continuation of this timeline). And if they are trying to cut expenses I imagine Stewart won’t be the face of it like he was with Picard. But I can still Seven, Riker, Worf or someone else leading it.

It sounds like Matalas idea is to have a mixture of old and new characters anyway.

It was well-received enough for their needs when it was the only Trek on the air. Once those other shows popped up and wiped the floor with it, they reevaluated.

Yes fully agree. That’s also another possibility.

If Matalas’s lobbying efforts do wind up getting a Legacy show, I’m very interested to see how the rest of the deal plays out. As far as I know, the only reason Picard is based in LA is because of Patrick Stewart. I would think that Paramount would want to keep costs as low as possible by having all Trek produced in Toronto, in which case, I wonder how much of his vision for Legacy would remain intact. Does Jeri Ryan want to relocate to Toronto for 5-6 months a year or whatever?

Also, it might just be easier for them to expand SNW to 20 episodes a season while they figure out what’s next. That might wind up being a taller order just based on the limited attention spans of the people currently writing/producing the show, but it sort of serves all of P+’s needs from a cost and content standpoint.

Yeah I’m interested to see how it will play out too. I think the deal with Stewart in L.A. is one example, but also remember the show got a huge tax cut to do it was well. It wasn’t Stewart alone. He may have still gotten his wish, but that already made the show cheaper to make, maybe what it would’ve cost to shoot in Toronto but that’s speculating obviously.

And I’m sure Jeri Ryan would have no issues of doing the show in Canada if she’s the freaking star. Anson Mount was reportedly not happy about shooting in Canada and the amount of time to shoot the show, but they obviously convinced him other wise because there he is lol.

But that would actually go against the idea of doing more SNW episodes. I think like Stewart, Mount was probably adamant he only work on the show so long. I don’t think he would remotely want to shoot that many considering how much he complained how long it is to make the show with half that. He’s an established actor, he probably wants to just do more things than just Star Trek which would be a full a year round show to make if they went that high.

That and plus I don’t think P+ wants any show over 10 episodes. This has been obvious since every show being made by it is only 10 episodes. DIS reduced to 10 next season once it was being made completely under P+. When it was part of Netflix, that original deal probably called for 13 at the time which is ironic today since most of Netflix shows are around only 10 now.

So I wouldn’t hold my breath on that. This is just the standard for streaming today or much bigger shows like Stranger Things or the Mandalorean would have 10+ episodes a season too. And why not just make Halo 20 episodes instead then if that’s the biggest show on Paramount+ I’ve seen some people say here. And that will have only 10 episodes next season too.

I didn’t know Mount was struggling with the move. Yeah, that does matter. Great point about Paramount being a lemming when it comes to streaming. They seem to take great pleasure in following the trends, but always seeming to be a year or two behind.

There are many reasons I don’t see SNW going more than 10 episodes, another is that it’s probably smarter to diversify their Trek slate. If they have $200M to spend a year, best to put $50M into 4 different shows with 10-12 episodes each than $100M into two that each get 20-24 episodes.

Any investor will tell you that diversifying your portfolio is crucial, and that’s true here, too.

Hmm well at the end of the day, diversifying the portfolio isn’t really in play here because we’re talking about just one IP in the portfolio. It’s Star Trek product. And between Prodigy (which I have to believe is a shared burden with Nick) and Lower Decks and live action show x, that should be enough content to keep Star Trek fans subscribed for a calendar year (plus the library content). They can always spend less per episode to make more of them, too, which might be possible if they back out of their deal with SH (which could happen once P+ and Showtime merge), although I’ve been told SH’s off the top cut per episode isn’t *that* much — every little bit would help. But, you’re right, they’ll definitely stick with 10 or fewer eps per season because that’s what everybody else is doing. I’m not sure that the episodes look like their price tags in every case, but I can easily see the quality going down very quickly if they *did* spend less.

The Enterprise issue goes beyond ratings. Ratings then did not include time shifting and Enterprise was usually the most time shifted show there was each week. Also the front office at UPN was being shaken. This was before the WB merger and the way things were going even if Enterprise had much better ratings it still very likely would have been canned due to the upcoming merger.

tbh yeah I think ENT was not that well written and had other issues but also I think it got sabotaged by everything you’re saying here.

Yeah but you could’ve said that about EVERY Star Trek spin off lol, at least in the beginning. Most people seem to think that the first two seasons of TNG were extremely bad, it still went on to be a hit show and got better every season. Same for DS9 and a lesser extent VOY. I think with ENT it wasn’t anymore worse IMO than those shows earlier seasons, but there were other issues with it for sure, fatigue being a big part of that. I can speak on that personally because I was just kind of done with Star Trek when ENT started. If I liked it I would’ve kept watching but by that point I had for 15 years straight, I needed a break. I think a lot of people did and it was easier to bail on the show by then.

It says it more today because new fans seem to like that show more than old fans kind of like how people claim new fans like Discovery.

That’s a very good point. I wouldn’t know because at that time I was a new fan, I was also a kid. I hadn’t been watching for 15 straight years because I hadn’t even been alive that long by that point 😂. I do believe you when you say that contributed to the issues and I do believe that ENT had other issues.

Yeah the show had issues for sure, but no more than every show before it. The difference was those shows had stronger ratings out of the gate so they weren’t in fear of cancellation like the way Enterprise was after its second season. And it DID get better. It doesn’t mean every one loved it, but it improved just based on how much many seem to hail season 4. Personally I fell in love with the show by the second season, but I stopped watching the show after the first one and never watched it again for 12 years lol. So when I say I was fatigued over Star Trek at the time, I mean it. It’s no way I could’ve gone more than a few weeks watching the other shows even if they were super bad.

Today I love Enterprise personally. It’s still on the lower end of the classic shows but I love it more than all the new shows minus ONLY Prodigy. So I imagine ENT could’ve been as loved as TOS, TNG and DS9 if it stayed the course from season 4 on. But obviously just my opinion.

I was also thinking about how it got sabotaged by the writing. What was the point of the Xindi War and all of that. Obviously I’m not against wars in Trek as a whole, DS9 is my favorite series. If it had been about the war between the Romulans and Earth, I would have been okay with that. But the Xindi War just never made any sense to me and it seems like it never did to others either which is why I say it was also sabotaged by the writing.

Dude I know this and you know I know this.

Still though, it did get cut due to ratings obviously and it was probably the most expensive show as well which was probably it’s biggest factor; especially since UPN was also belt tightening at the time just to stay on the freaking air. And when you can probably get twice the audience for half the price with something like wrestling, then it’s going to be an issue at SOME point regardless.

But yes they didn’t take into account the time shifting viewings like today and that streaming shows don’t have an issue with at all. And I’m pretty certain more people watched Enterprise in its last season, at least in America, than probably most if not all of the Trek shows on Paramount+ today as well, but that’s also with different metrics.

I still say if they’d migrated Enterprise to Showtime it would have made it to season 7. All Access proved Star Trek is effectively monetized behind a paywall.

I doubt that would have been the case in 2005 though. Few people back then added premium channels just for one show. I know I wouldn’t have subscribed just for ENT, but today, a streaming network? I would, because streaming apps are vastly superior and offer loads more upside.

For ENT to do better it would have needed a bigger network, not a smaller one. That said, when streaming networks started picking up canceled shows in the 2010s, I think a fifth season could have done well if the fan-driven rumor of a Netflix revival had panned out.

I dunno, lots of people were actually giving money to a pre-GoFundMe for a 5th season, and the campaign raised millions before refunding everyone. I would have subscribed, but I also pretty much only got cable to watch Voyager.

Showtime wasn’t devoid of content, adding a Trek show easily could have persuaded enough people to make it worthwhile, especially with syndication and dvd sales still in the mix.

Ah well, we’ll never know.

That is an urban legend. Three aerospace industry corporate donations garnered $3 Million to the Trekunited fundraising effort, with only a bit more than that being provided by small donations from a couple hundred fans. Most fans had abandoned the series by that point — there was no groundswell of support at all from the general Star Trek fan community to keep Enterprise going.

The 32nd Century setting existed solely to capitulate to the people that hated the first season of Discovery. That was its sole purpose. Without Discovery, it no longer needs to continue.

I rather future shows expand on the 23rd Century (Strange New Worlds) and 25th Century (Picard) settings.

A Starfleet Academy series would fit well in the former, while a Titan series would fit well in the latter.

As for movies, they need to stop trying to do a fourth Kelvin movie and instead do a 25th Century Enterprise movie spun-off from Picard.

Yep. I have no problem with the 32nd century in concept, but that it was the result of giving in to pressure from whiney fans was regrettable.


I’d be curious to see a Starfleet Academy series during Pike’s time.

To be fair, fans weren’t screaming to put the show in the 32nd century lol, I think many were just tired of prequels up to that point. And yes, if Discovery just fit in the 23rd century better the way SNW is now, then less people would’ve been screaming about it. But they knew they had a problem going forward and needed to change the image of the show to keep fans from bolting and this was the solution. One that I fully backed but I had no issues if they kept in the 23rd century either, just tell better stories. And ultimately that was the main issue for me regardless what century it was in.

No, but moving forward at all was a panic move. I don’t care how loudly the loudest voices scream, you do what’s best for the show creatively, not what a consensus complaining group of fans tells you.

If viewership is low and reviews bad, re-evaluate the series with writers and producers, don’t go on fan forums and look for criticism and advice. Besides, reviews weren’t bad and viewership was strong, which makes it all the more pathetic a move.

I agree it was a panic move but I also think they moved it because they themselves wanted to just be able to do their own thing with it too.

Remember it was Bryan Fuller who came up with the setting and he seemed to have specific ideas for it. Once he was given the boot, no one probably knew what to really do with it and it was obvious they wanted to do more advance stuff with the show. Fuller didn’t come up with the spore drive for example, that came after he left. And many fans kept saying it made no sense for it to be there but they kept it anyway. Now they found a way to keep it and for people to stop hollering about it, which was to put it in a more advance setting where it belonged and where it became even MORE important lol.

So that’s the issue, yes they moved the show to appease fans but they also moved it because they probably wanted to have more creative freedoms themselves and not have to feel like they were threading canon like the first two seasons.

And many people like me never said the show HAD to be in a different setting for them to do whatever they wanted. I always said if they want to keep it in the 23rd century, fine, then just make it clear it’s a reboot and do whatever they wanted. But they chose the other option.

I’m not buying what you’re selling. They could already do their own thing and had plenty of creative freedom. SNW, despite its many ties to canon, is finding ways to tell fun, exciting, compelling stories. Discovery just wanted to shut people up about continuity.

One alternative I might buy is that they wanted something to fundamentally set it apart from the upcoming Strange New Worlds. Ie: they didn’t want them both set in the same time period, where stories might be forced to impact one another.

You know what seals the deal for me? The fact that the story had Starfleet seal the records of Discovery, pretend none of them ever existed, and swear even Spock to secrecy.

Anyone with half a brain didn’t care that Spock had never mentioned his sister before in canon, but the loudest complainers wanted to know why the spore drive or Burnham were never mentioned (when the reason was obvious, they hadn’t existed yet).

So the writers bent over backwards to make them happy when they didn’t need to. But the joke was on them: those complainers were never going to enjoy Discovery anyway. That’s why listening to those people is pointless.

Just do your thing, and let it sink or swim on its own merits. Because now we’ll never know if the show could have continued to improve if the writers had been allowed just to go with what they felt was best.

Yeah, I thought ALL of that was beyond stupid and unncessary too but it obviously done to placate the fans who hated the Burnham and Spock connection. For the record, I originally hated it too but it wasn’t that big of a deal to me lol. It’s still just a TV show, I can accept they want to do different things with it. The problem is they probably did too many things too differently and it bothered a lot of fans who just wanted either A. a more classic TOS experience or B. wanted to go forward in the timeline and DIS had problems with both groups…so they moved it.

But I always said this, if DIS was just a better show out the gate, then most people would’ve gotten over it pretty quickly as well. But because many felt the writing sucked on top of everything else, those things just became more emphasized.


LOL Alex Kurtzman literally stated that was one of the reasons they wanted to go forward, so they didn’t have to worry about canon. So take it up with him sport.

And dude, this is not exactly a big argument, ie the fall of the Federation story line in season 3. They couldn’t have done anything like that in the 23rd century, correct? Now they could and did. That was the point. They could’ve just thrown DIS in any time period if that was the case. So no, that proves your argument completely wrong. They couldn’t do whatever they wanted. That’s the perfect example and why they specifically made it the 32nd century because as stated, there was NO canon after it, it only went up through the 31st century by that point.

So yeah man, it can be both things. They did it because they knew the show didn’t work in the 23rd century but also because they can just do whatever they wanted and the freedom probably felt more immense to do it. That proved true because all the canon complaints went away after that. It should’ve been there on day one.

Unfortunately, I don’t have a direct line to Kurtzman. But I have no doubt what he meant was “to worry about canon so people will stop yelling at us.”

It’s called PR spin.

As for “proving” anything, there is literally no way to PROVE it one way or the other from where we sit. So relax there, little guy, this ain’t calculus, your theorems don’t work here.

Dude, he said it. You can question him on it, fine. I don’t.

And I already said yes, the MAIN issue were fans were complaining about the show so they rebooted it to be in another era thanks to all the moaning about it being in the 23rd century. We completely agree on that, OK? I think most people do. But they obviously saw what a great opportunity they had to create a new era for Star Trek that they can do anything with, literally the first time since TNG back in 1987. In fact, they could’ve just moved it to the 24th century so Riker or Worf can show up as its new captain if they were just trying to clamp down on complaints, right?

Yeah, I think it can just be both lol.

And it’s hilarious you’re the one telling people to relax considering people are telling you that in literally every thread every time you get triggered over someone’s comments lol. Take your advice dude, you obviously need it more than I do. ;)

Ultimately, Discovery stole so much from Bryan Singer’s “Federation” pitch, such as the fall of the Federation, the future setting, and not making the lead the captain, that it wasn’t funny… Exclusive Details & Excerpts From ‘Star Trek: Federation’ Series Proposal –


Strange New Worlds is guilty of the same offenses as Discovery, though. The only difference between the two is that SNW panders to their preconceptions of what they think a Trek series should be about (ship visiitng planets, which is not true of ALL Trek. Never has been (i.e, DS9).

Case in point, whereas people lost their sh*t over Michael being Spock’s previously unknown sister, no one cared that Uhura’s parents and siblings are now suddenly dead, which shows that they didn’t care about canon or about revelations about established characters’ families.

Likewise, they don’t care about the introduction of new characters, such as most of the crew of Pike’s Enterprise.

All they seemed to want is a lighter tone and a planet of the week. Not because it made sense, not because it’s good or right, but only because that is what they’ve come to expect from Star Trek.

SNW better be on the air for 10 years given that it has everything they demanded.

I don’t care about any of that. The core difference for me, between the two shows, is that SNW is well-written, with interesting characters and exciting stories. Discovery never had any of that as far as i’m concerned, outside of a handful of moments when someone like Saru or Adira showed potential.

EDIT: Sorry, thought you were replying to me.

Discovery was well written. Considerably much better in the first season than in the ones that followed.

Problem is, not just with Trek, that people tend to confuse “it contradicts my preconceptions” with “bad writing”.

People went into Discovery expecting the same Trek as TOS, TNG, VOY, and ENT, an episodic ensemble series about a ship that travels from planet to planet. Instead, it was a serialized series about a ship caught up in a war centered on a single main character, which rubbed people the wrong way.

Not because it was wrong, or badly written, but merely because it wasn’t what they were expecting based on said preconceptions.

In turn, SNW is the episodic ensemble series about a ship that travels from planet to planet they expected, and because it checks those boxes for them they are perfectly fine forgiving it when it commits the same sins Discovery made.

Oh yeah I 100% agree with this too and for the record I have always cited SNW canon issues as I did Discovery’s. No matter how some may feel about my opinions here, they are not hypocritical. I have always pointed out my problems with both shows and I’m a huge fan of SNW so far at least. And I’ve even been criticized by others for my views over SNW by some on this very board.

Now that said, I also think SNW has done a much better job at canon than DIS without question. SNW actually looks and feels like it at least belong in the TOS era, just more updated. DIS never did IMO which was really the biggest issue for a lot of fans who complained about it and another reason it was booted out of there.

And another example is just how advanced DIS felt. I mentioned the spore drive as the most obvious example but they did tons of things that just did not feel authentic to the setting. Everything about Section 31 felt more suited in a post-Nemesis era IMO than it did DIS. It’s a big reason people are not excited about having that show now because it all went against what we knew about them in DS9. With SNW, I can’t think of a single thing that felt out of place technologically. It fits exactly what we think of the 23rd century.

So yeah there are stark differences IMO but no, SNW is far from perfect; especially with its own canon issues and eye rolling pandering like throwing in a Khan descendant on the crew. That’s still ridiculous to me even now and purely for fan service although no one was begging to see a Khan descendant on the Enterprise lol. And believe me, I will still be calling out any canon issues in season 2 as I did in season 1.

And I knew nothing about Uhura’s parents until now. I didn’t even know they been mentioned on TOS before. If so, again, pretty odd to change it.

Well, in terms of production values, Discovery could afford to do better than TOS did. For instance, the monitors on the bridge were actual monitors and not stickers.

Discovery may not have felt like a prequel to TOS in terms of imitating their production limitations, but it certainly felt like a sequel to Enterprise.

Trek is not supposed to adhere to the 1960s vision of the future. It has to be rooted in the present. Technology must therefore extrapolate from what is possible now, not what was possible then. Discovery, and Enterprise before it, did that really well.

I don’t think Uhura’s family was ever mentioned before. But neither had Spock’s brother, and no one cared about him in Trek V like they did Michael in Discovery.

I don’t recall any mention of Uhura’s parents.

Yeah, I fully agree, it was to reboot the show and give its own life and canon, which a lot of fans wanted from the start. But that doesn’t mean they can’t do more shows in that era either now that it exists. But yes, I imagine for the majority of fans out there they want shows to take place in the 23rd-25th century era because that’s where most of the legacy characters live.

But for some of us, even the ones who still wasn’t a huge fan of Discovery like me, that was it’s biggest pull, to finally have a show in a completely new era and can set up it’s own new characters, species,conflicts etc. This is what I been wanting since Voyager went off the air, to finally go forward in the timeline again. Yeah maybe they went a bit too far lol, but they wanted to clear everything in canon up until that point.

So I would still like that to continue, but yeah wouldn’t be shocked it didn’t happen now, especially as all the interest right now is for another 25th century show, which I definitely want as well.


I could see two live action Star Trek shows at most, a Titan spinoff would probably be more cost effective since they have most of the sets, costumes, props, etc. But it’s another ship show like SNW so I’m not sure they want to do that. They could also move production to Toronto and redress the Discovery sets for a new 25th Century show, they seem to get more for their money there and they have the AR wall for virtual sets.

Obviously the TNG+ fan in me just wants a 25th Century Enterprise show, a Next Next Generation so to speak. Yet this obvious idea seems to be impossible. Maybe once we conclude TNG, that possibility open sup. I don’t mind a Titan show, but I would rather the show start fresh just as TNG did back in 1987.

I love Discovery but I think it has run its run. 5 years is great. I love the characters, the ship, everything. I’m sure we’ll see someone again from that show. But like others have said, most trek fans are interested in the Picard time period and hopefully it continues. SNW is great. Maybe after their run, we get that Archer series with updated characters and better stories. There is lot to look forward to. It’s just the waiting! I’m really loving Picard Season 3.

Star Trek could actually do well producing a “cheaply made” show – a show that emphasizes the theatricality that is so clear when rewatching episodes from any show from TNG to Enterprise. Don’t move the camera so much. Save a ton of money. Discovery suffered from having so much money they probably didn’t use as many cheap solutions as they could have.

As much as you or I would love that, would it appeal to a broader audience? I do think it’s worth trying, but that would be the kicker. If it could — awesome, it might start a new trend.

I’ve overall enjoyed Discovery despite its flaws. The show has some great characters and they’ve taken some big swings that haven’t always worked but I think it’s been a fun ride. I think the thing I’m most dissapointed about is less the cancellation (which again, I like the show, but five seasons seems ok to me), but the fact that we have to wait another year for the next season. This new streaming thing of waiting years between seasons of tv shows (not specific to Trek but just in general) is not my favorite thing.

It is a bummer that this wasn’t a creative decision to end the show but a cancellation that came as a surprise to the people whose job it was to make it.

I been on other boards and I see some people doubting what Frakes is saying and that he must say it to keep his job, etc, which is nonsense. But these people forget that Frakes has developed real relationships with the cast and crew and yes it was the show that revitalized his Trek career. The guy was doing OK regardless, but Star Trek is a huge part of his life he cherished and constantly wanted to be part of again in some way. He said so over and over lol.

So I can definitely understand how much it sucks for him. He had become a part of the show as everyone else there. That said, I’m not sure I believe they have a ‘stunning’ plan for an ending but we’ll see. If it’s at least better than that ending he personally took part in with TATV, then it will probably be considered a win for Discovery at least. ;)

“Computer end program” that’s how I want DSC to end lol. I’m relieved the show is concluding, it was a chore to watch. I liked season 2 & parts of season 1 with Lorca but overall it was a very uneven show

I think you are one of a great many who would like to see the show end that way.

I hate to praise a certain other franchise here, but I think the limited series and one-off movies they’ve done have actually worked really well in fleshing out the universe and not needing to run ten or however many episodes over years. I would be okay with Star Trek peppering in limited-run series. In a way, Picard was the first time a Star Trek series was specifically set to only run a scant 30 episodes. So it’s not a stretch. Let Michelle Yeoh have a single season of assassination and intrigue and general badassery, then show us some other corner of the galaxy. Show us Star Fleet academy. Show us Andorian penguin herders in love. If I had to point to a reason Discovery failed, it was that it tried to become all things to all people. Limited-run series could avoid that pressure.

You had me at Andorian penguin herders.

Hmm, this is not gonna be a popular idea but I kinda want a limited series set in the Gamma Quadrant. Time frame may vary.

Many of us here (me in particular though) have wished that the Short Treks had continued (more like the Marvel One Shots), along with made-for-streaming series or limited series.

This seems however to be a Paramount policy issue rather than Trek franchise strategy.

Why Paramount has a policy of standard 10 episodes seasons for all its streaming services is beyond me. Some would do better with 6 or 8 episodes, some longer than 10.

For whatever reason, perhaps scheduling to minimize churn, they have seemingly become quite rigid. I wonder if we’ll see some movement on that now that the senior executives have moved around again.

WE HAVE ALL FELT THE PAIN of seeing ridiculous plots and characters constantly crying.
Let it go.

I’m so glad it’s ending, the show was terrible and what they did to legacy characters like Spock unforgivable. Discovery is just the very worst.

I’m still OK with Star Trek: Discovery ending with season five, to be honest.

He shouldn’t hold his breath about a Picard spin-off either.

I doubt Frakes would be upset over a new Titan show with an Admiral Riker acting like Charlie from Charlie’s Angels.

I would much rather a Titan spin-off show than a Starfleet Academy with Tilly.

For the Titan show: Captain Shaw, Commander Seven, those four bridge crew, and Jack as Dr. Crusher.