The Shuttle Pod Crew Wraps Up ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Season 3

After a slight delay, the full complement of the Shuttle Pod crew has finally gathered to discuss the two-episode finale of Star Trek: Picard season three. Brian, Kayla, Jared, and Matt also look back at the season as a whole, and look forward to the potential ‘Legacy’ show.

Subscribe to our podcasts Podcast Network of Shows Podcast Network All podcasts Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Stitcher
The Shuttle Pod Podcast The original podcast Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Stitcher
All Access Star Trek Podcast All about the Star Trek Universe Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Stitcher

Contribute to our tip jar via Patreon!

Inline Feedbacks
View all comments

I already mentally moved on to SNW anticipation, but thanks for all of your outstanding efforts on a another great podcast!

Can’t wait to listen to this but I just started to rewatch the season yesterday and I’m enjoying it even more now! I have been very vocal about the things I felt that didn’t work (and I’m sorry they could’ve made the show look a bit less dark, period) but overall I thought this was just a fantastic season of Star Trek overall. It did a great job of bringing back nostalgia for hardcore fans but also set up the future for both old and new fans! Speaking of new fans, the season even brought in more of them as well which I didn’t know about until recently. Apparently a good chunk of Gen Z audience watched the season which surprised even me. So it grew both the market and demographics! :)

This thing was a major hit according to every barometer out there. It’s just begging for a spin off. Please give us the Legacy show Paramount! It truly deserves it.

I’m wondering whether the dark cinematography was meant to contrast with the final episodes, where we revisited the Enterprise-D, which has a light and airy feeling.

Yeah certainly a possibility. I haven’t heard anyone speak on it though.

Well, I’m hoping Tiger2

Great to know Mike! :)

I think we’re going to get an amazing spin off if it happens!

Hey Tiger2, where did you hear about the GenZ ratings? That is definitely good to hear along with the overall ratings which cracked the Top 10 listings.

Another thing that seemed to happen is that the mainstream media chose to pick up mutlple positive stories about the show, not just the usual specialty media that normally covers Star Trek. In April, I remember reading a People Magazine article for the first time in decades and learned LeVar Burton’s best man was Brent Spiner and Stewart, Dorn and Frakes were his groomsmen. Cool – life imitating art and vice versa!

Finally, the specialty media outlets overwhelmingly gave the show a thumbs up… proving that there is nothing better than good writing combining with good and beloved actors to deliver a good story.

Looking forward to SNW and hopefully Star Trek Legacy!

Hey DeanH, I heard it here:

For people who don’t want to read the entire article, here is the blip on it:

Not only did “Picard” build its audience week after week, it drew in the demographic every streamer is clamoring to capture today. Impressively, for a show featuring characters from the 1990s, “Picard” managed to succeed where so many throwback programs have failed. It overindexed with Gen Z audiences who weren’t alive the last time the crew of the Enterprise D (and E) appeared together.

I heard over and over and over and over and over how Picard wasn’t a market grower (without zero proof btw ;)) and now not only did it not just grow the market with new fans, it actually got the youngest demographics out there as well which according to the article is what most streaming services is clamoring for. So people can’t even use THAT excuse anymore lol.

I keep hearing we need Trek shows to appeal to new and younger fans. Soooo, um, yeeeeaaah here you go people. This thing is a major hit. The fact it built its audience every week says tons and how strong the word of mouth it was getting. Also not a shock the Picard season 3 premiere topped Discovery’s 4 premiered by 40%. And probably with more younger people to boot lol!

But I encourage anyone to read the entire article but it highlights just how big this season was. It really did make a huge impact and Matalas should be proud. It only happened because of him.

I read this one with interest as well Tiger2.

Have to say I was surprised about the Gen Z uptake, based on my window in through our kids and through the youngest or our employees.

That said, the LaCrush ship was trending high with Z girls until it somewhat deflated when it was revealed that Jack was using Borg control to marionette her. So, that tracks with a certain pull in that demographic.

What was most interesting to me about this article is that it’s one of a very few anywhere that cites SambaTV stats. And, as it happens, Paramount has contracted Samba for some of the metrics it’s using internally for decisions.

Samba uses data pulled directly from certain brands of the newer smart TVs from Samsung, Apple etc. It’s not like a voluntary signup to a Nielsen box. Yup, another example of surveillance capitalism.

So SambaTV numbers are very robust for what they are but have all the selection bias of who has recently bought smart TV.

Selection bias is significant. Large swaths of the actual and potential viewership is left out completely no matter how hard the numbers are for the portion of the market SambaTV covers.

Smart TVs are increasingly popular, but many households don’t have them yet. It’s about income/affluence, but also reflects early adopters too.

More, there are many households, including ours, where even with a nice new OLED smartTV, much of the viewing is happening on PCs, tablets and phones elsewhere in the house.. It’s the difference between what we watch individually vs with other family members.

Our kids, like many, have gaming PCs with good monitors and graphics cards. Now that all the major streamers have PC apps, when they watch alone, they watch on their gaming PCs.

Not sure how Samba knows which members of a household are actually the ones watching any given episode, even if they can establish the household’s demographic breakdown. Which and how many members of a household are in front of that smart TV isn’t something that the device can record, just whose profile a show was logged in through.

All to say the demographic breakdown would be a far softer estimate than the number of televisions watching and minutes watched.

So, what we learned is that Picard had a good pull in households with
GenZ residents.

Wow, very informative as usual dude! :)

How you find stuff like this I never know lol, but interesting. We have several smart TVs now, but only the last few years but man do I love them now.

But this all sounds like great news and that the show has brought in more young people. Yeah we may not know exactly how they got their data over who is actually watching but all of it is mostly just estimations regardless going back to the Nielsen’s rating. And yeah there could obviously be many more out there, but as you said since this company isn’t tracking phones, tablets or PC viewing, there is a big gap out there.

Just happy to hear that more younger people are watching the show but end of the day what really matters is how many people are watching overall. Again, I never bought this argument Paramount expects Star Trek to expand the audience in any significant way since everything they done in the last few years is appeal mostly to old fans from Picard to SNW. Prodigy is really the only one built specifically to expand new and younger viewers and probably a reason why it’s on a dedicated network to attract that base.

Of course it’s a bonus, but I don’t think it’s a big factor if they get renewed or not, simply if there are enough viewers to justify the cost to keep making it. If that was the case, Discovery wouldn’t have been prematurely cancelled and it was supposedly gaining more new younger viewers according to you (and as you also pointed out months ago, Picard was already getting as well ;)).

But this is still more good news for a potential Legacy show, especially if they got even more now! We already know it’s a huge ratings hit. Crossing my fingers. :)

Oh yeah, another impressive stat the article mentioned:

While “Star Wars” and “Star Trek” comparisons are as old as the franchises themselves, one comparison is worth noting to highlight just how impressive the “Picard” engagement numbers are. Where Paramount+ grew its audience by more than half from premiere to finale, Disney+’s “The Mandalorian” shed 14% of its audience between its Season 3 premiere and finale. The numbers don’t lie: “Star Trek: Picard” is the way.

In other words, while the Mandalorian lost views by the end of its season, Picard grew theirs by a wide margin of over fifty percent. It tells you so much how, sorry, engaged the fans were by it. Everyone was shouting how awesome the Mandalorian was by the time its first season ended and we were shouting the very opposite with Picard lol. Now the tables have turned big time.

Again you don’t have to personally love the show or the season. That’s fine. But yeah, the numbers makes it clear people overall did love it since the numbers only increased by the end of the season. Usually the opposite happens and a hyped show gets huge ratings/views at the beginning of a season but a slow down by the end if people aren’t really happy with it; as the case with the Mandalorian this season.

But not with Picard. ;D

Paramount would have to be blind to not want to continue this show in some form.

Great information and thanks for posting! I wonder what it was that attracted the younger audience? As you said, the numbers dont lie.
I hope Legacy eventually gets greenlit and maybe Matalas can replicate the success of Picard with DS9 or Enterprise! No matter what, we should have lots of good Trek to look forward to.

No worries man! :)

And you know when I say things like this, I can always back it up. ;)

As far as why the younger audience, maybe they just love Ed Speelers lol. I know he’s in another popular show on Netflix too. Haven’t seen it but heard good things and now in its fourth season. Again, who knows, but if so that bolds even better for a Legacy show.

I’m very confident we’re getting a spin off show, especially now hearing it has picked up younger audiences as well. Now they can capitalize on that. But I’m personally in Trek heaven at the moment and very happy with LDS, PRO and SNW. And I support both the Academy show and Section 31 TV movie. Don’t love Discovery, but that’s now on the way out anyway and I’m hoping fifth season will go out with a bang.

So I’m good either way. But a full on 25th century show would be the crowning achievement which most of the fanbase seems to want. And I think Matalas has some great ideas where to take both the show and this new era of Star Trek. I’m REALLY excited to see where it will go next.

It’s a great time to be a fan! :)

OK, I went and found this quote by TG47 a few months ago, but Picard was already attracting younger people in its first two seasons:

“Parrot Analytics has noted that Discovery (and Picard to a lesser extent) have brought in a new and younger audience.”

This is what he wrote to me months ago before season 3 started. So the show was actually bringing in newer viewers. Now according to the article even more so I guess. ;)

So again, what reason is there not to make a Legacy show based off a show that delivered strong ratings, huge fanfare, great reviews (as this podcast also did) and all the while attracting younger audiences in the process? Yeah, none at all!

OMG, please don’t let him anywhere near DS9. There’s no reason they can’t bring Ira back if they want to do something more on DS9.

The last thing I want to see is the Starwarsification of my beloved DS9.

He can F with enterprise all he wants though…lol

Yah, but what these stats don’t tell you is that the first two seasons of The Mandalorian nearly doubled Disney+ subscribership from approx 50 million to 100 million, numbers that were approx triple that of P+ subscribership at the time S2 of The Mandalorian ended. So the 14% thing isn’t really all that impressive.

With stats you need to be careful and look at the entire context.

Well said and summarised Tiger2, I feel the same way.

Absolutely agree. I just finished a rewatch last night, actually. Totally on board for a spin-off. It was some fantastic Trek, a gift. It’s a shame they boogered the first two seasons so badly, imo.

Wow, cool Danpaine! I’m going to try and finish it by the end of this week and then jump into SNW and rewatch that. But yeah, as always lol, we fully agree dude!

“Shuttle Pod Crew Declares, First Good Trek Since DS9” haha..if only I knew not to let Enterprise be my introduction to the franchise!

But for real. I enjoyed the final review of S3 as it offered both critical takes and love, thanks all.

ENT has a lot of flaws but despite that it manages to be quite alright.

Plus it has one thing that PIC never will. Jeffrey Combs.

Actually I think Enterprise is a GREAT show to begin with as a new fan since it starts everything in the timeline. I always suggest to new fans on Reddit ENT, TOS or TNG as a starter. Whichever century they want to start in first. ;)

That’s a great point! Due to my age, I was too busy watching Rugrats and Hey Arnold! when DS9 and VOY were rapping up. I do recall seeing a re-screening of Generations at a drive in movie theater as a kid, but ENT was on air when I was in high school, then Star Trek 2008 hit theaters. That really drew me into exploring all aspects of the franchise – which was a great jumping off point.

I’m just poking fun at the podcast. I honestly enjoyed the review and everyone has some great takes, but I don’t think it’s necessary to put other shows down to showcase S3..

Looking forward to SNW and very excited for LDS!

Whoops – 2009 lol

That’s a great story how you got into the show. And that’s what is great about Star Trek when you’re first beginning because it seems to be that every show or movie is a gateway to the bigger universe. I’ve seen many posts like yours who said they got into VOY, ENT, the Kelvin movies, etc as their first entry into the universe and it pushed them to watch the other or older shows and films.

The same effect is happening for new fans to Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds and now watching some of the older shows after watching those; especially something like Picard which is basically a sequel to TNG. Prodigy seem specifically designed to do this for its new adolescent fans.

And I agree I hate when people put down other shows down to highlight the ones they like, but this is the Star Trek way lol. It’s been happening since 1987 unfortunately. And I been guilty of it at times too.

I may catch some heat for this, but I was so disappointed in DSC when it came out I went back and watched ENT again and gained a whole new appreciation for it.

I don’t think you will catch any heat for that Danpaine lol. ENT was originally criticized for not feeling like a true prequel or too advanced to TOS more than anything. But then we got Discovery which was easily multiple times worse than ENT lol. And of course it was magnified so much more being so close to the TOS time frame since we all knew exactly what this era was already supposed to look like and Discovery didn’t look anything close to it. ;)

For the record, I had issues with both shows, but with Enterprise I thought it fit into its era fine, so that was never my problem with the show; I just wasn’t into the prequel idea from the start and the first season mostly bored me. But with Discovery, that was a HUGE part of it and took me out of the show because it just didn’t fit into the TOS setting at all. But now that’s no longer an issue being so far into the future and yet the show still sucks to me and really really bores me a lot of times not too mention all the melodrama and bad plotting. So being a prequel alone was never my only issue with the show.

But of course others will see it differently and you are welcome to like any show over another.

No doubt that in 10 or 15 years they’ll be a current Trek series you’re disappointed in and you’ll go back and watch discovery and get a whole new appreciation for it.

I think this is the way most fans work. I don’t know if it’s a personality defect, or if it’s a positive thing, but my opinions don’t really change over time on Star Trek. What I thought stunk 20 years ago or was great 20 years ago I typically think the same today. But I realize I’m in a minority.

That’s a view.

Just not mine. I didn’t expect shuttlepod crew’s views to diverge so much from mine over the years, but they have.

Yeah. I think it’s just subjective and everyone is free to think the best Trek series since -insert thing here- or best Trek series period is whatever they want. Just as long as you’re not an asshole about it or gatekeep other fans (which is being an asshole admittedly) for liking shows you don’t or vice versa.

Agreed! :)

Like or hate whatever you want. just don’t be a dick about it lol.

Yeah, The Return of the Picard was not all that great, but it was a least a moderately fun on-off, fan service reunion for the TNG characters.

Best Trek since DS9? LFMAO — that’s F’ing ridiculous and is DOA in my book. That’s like someone saying a can of SPAM someone just ate is the best meat they have had since they last went to Ruth’s Criss 10 years ago…LOL

There is no need for The Picard Rises (i.e. Legacy)…please, just no.

Yeah, I did enjoy the review and everyone has some great takes, but I don’t think it’s necessary to put other shows down to showcase S3.

Excited for SNW and LDS!

Been waiting for the SPC review so will listen tonight

I’ve being saying Series 3 is the Best Trek since First Contact

I would agree Mike. I quite enjoyed Enterprise overall and I’ve enjoyed Discovery in places (S2 is my favourite season so far), but IMO S3 Picard was a triumph and something that I will return to for many years to come.

Best Trek since since they completed filming on The Cage in January 1965, and that includes all the movies. Also better than 2001, Lawrence of Arabia and Citizen Kane — combined!

Oddly enough Picard season 3 feels like the best movie since First Contact if you look at it as a 10 hour movie. ;)

I like Enterprise, but those first 2 seasons are rough. Once they get into the Xindi plot, then things take off.

Always enjoy your shows, miss seeing them appear on a regular basis as I prefer this over All Access

I just have not been able to get through it, I thought it was garbage. Yes it was the best of the 3 seasons of Picard but everything is relative!!! The best Star Trek since DS9???


I do not consider Nu-Trek to be Star Trek although Strange New Worlds has potential, I am onto the last epiosde of Season 1 and after a really weak start & middle, the show picked up a bit in the last half and gave us I think the best Star Trek since DS9.

It has its problems but it is the only show made since ENT that is even approaching Star Trek IMO

I really loved the season but I also don’t agree it’s as good as DS9 either! That’s a veeeery high bar for me. ;)

Also will agree that SNW is definitely the most ‘Trek-y’ show since Enterprise easily out of the new ones. But it’s not my favorite of the new shows, it’s actually Prodigy (sucker for Janeway lol). What are your thoughts on that one?

Hopefully you’ll really love season 2 of SNW and ONE show will make you a believer lol! I’m really excited about it.

hmmm I have not yet been able to make myself watch cartoon Trek (TAS was bad enough) maybe one day but I will not be watching prodigy or lower decks anytime soon

Nu-Trek is just a big mess as far as I am concerned

Prodigy surprised me with how good it was, just fyi. I wasn’t expecting much but really enjoyed it.

Well it’s waaaay better than TAS lol (and I thought TAS was OK, but yeah). But I get it, I know there are fans out there who can’t get into LDS or PRO because they are animated. But they are both to me great shows and I was worried if I would like them as well. Prodigy is my favorite out of the new shows as I said and LDS is tied with SNW for me and why I’m so excited about the crossover episode.

But if it’s not your thing, understandable, but I would say watch a few episodes of Prodigy if you’re enjoying SNW. You may be surprised. :)

Prodigy is surprisingly good, actually. Your are right about LDS though — it’s dumpster trash, annoyingly loud, silly and intellectually insulting.

To offer a counterpoint to UpperDecks’s overly troll-y post. I think you should give LDS and PRO a try.

PRO is good even though it takes some shortcuts as a kid’s program. The heart of Trek is still there and there are some very good elements. If you care anything about the post-Endgame/post-Nemesis time period, you should check it out.

As for LDS, I think it is the best of NuTrek (though it has has more runtime than SNW, so it is hard to compare to SNW one-to-one). The shows may move a little faster, the characters are a little more flamboyant, and the point that it is a comedy makes it take a different approach/have a different tone than even the most humor-centric DS9 episodes (think “The Magnificent Ferengi” but at 110%), but it is totally Trek. It gets the purpose of Trek, the characters, and the feel of Trek, all while being able to lovingly poke fun at the sillier aspects of Trek. It is well-worth avoiding bombastic opinions of it and checking it out yourself.

To me, both LDS and PRO highlight the best of what Star Trek is. I never thought I would be saying that over an animated comedy and a kid’s show and yet they both capture the spirit of Star Trek so well IMO. Prodigy is my favorite of the new shows, but if I’m being honest with myself, LDS probably comes in at #2, at least for now.

What’s really interesting about them is they both play on old Trek tropes we all seen a hundred times already but yet do it in a fresh and different way. LDS obviously uses comedy but always uses it in a clever and fun way to highlight why we love them as much as we do. Prodigy uses them that feels like we are watching another episode of TNG or VOY but has found a way to make them palatable to younger audiences without talking down to them, while being serialized at the same time. I just think PRO is very inventive and if it was a live action, would probably be one of the top Star Trek shows ever…IMO. ;) I would totally be down if they made PRO a live action show some day.

LDS seems to be a big hit now because it really knows what it is and has found a way to poke fun at Star Trek without making fun of it at the same time. I think a lot of people were afraid of the latter, but instead it celebrates Star Trek and feels like a complete love letter to it. LDS is also a much more ‘Trek-y’ show than DIS and PIC was, at least in their first seasons and why it became such a fan favorite so fast. I mean this show probably should’ve crashed and burned after it’s first season lol and now it’s just been renewed for it’s fifth season because it’s clear fans have really taken to it.

And if the next two seasons are as good like the first three, we may get up to seven seasons….and a movie! ;D

Oh and another thing, I used to hear from very myopic and narrowed minded fans that you can’t make or do anything interesting with Star Trek in a post-Nemesis setting. The TNG era was dead. Dead! Dead! Dead! It’s alllll been done! These two shows makes it clear there are soooooo many ideas out there and still more unique ways to tell those stories because it’s Star Trek and the setting is the freaking galaxy.

These shows have done an amazing job expanding the 24th century era, feeling closer to Berman Trek again and has made me love being back in this period with both highlighting exploration as well (still one of the drawbacks with Picard for me even in its third season, but hopefully the Legacy show will change that since it’s a Starfleet based show again).

And I hope that will continue for years to come.

Many TOS fans thought that (bid mess) about Berman-era Trek, even some of the more east going ones like me who loved TAS.

I always think it’s great that we have Cmdr. Bremmon as a regular here to opine on the horror of the TNG Enterprise D carpeting, and the untrustworthiness of Picard after assimilation. (I was fine with both, but it’s cool to see diversity in perspective here.)

That’s what is interesting and every new generation of Trek gets hated on lol. I always pointed out when people were being extra mean about Discovery, it was no different than what TNG, DS9 and VOY got back in the day, so what’s the problem?

Yeah some of it is just about accepting something new but others is simply fair criticisms about the quality of the shows as those shows were all criticized in the beginning for various reasons. They all got better, a huge reason because of the criticisms. Some became great like TNG and DS9 but to this day every one of those shows still have their critics even now. That’s just how it goes. So people can’t be too shocked if people think shows like DIS, PIC, SNW, etc sucks today. All of these shows are just a few years old and shows like LDS and SNW got generally good receptions from the start. But yeah, others think they still suck too.

I admit, I just don’t get triggered over any of this stuff. I have said many times how much I loved this season of Picard and really want a spin off. But I have no issue reading what you and others who hated it have to say either. I don’t think I commented on a single post over your issues and others about the season and I probably read 90% of them. That’s the difference between posters like AlphaPradetor who wanted to fight with every living soul here when they said something remotely negative about a show, even trying to censor others for it (unless he believed it too ;)). You have to put your big boy pants on and just accept that people come to message boards to express there opinions on things…even if it’s to come and shit on something you personally love.

But most of us can still love a show or season but want to hear the other side of it too because people will just have different opinions on TV shows…and that’s OK.

“The best season since DS9” doesn’t necessarily mean it’s as good as DS9, just that it’s better than the things that have come since.

Yes you’re right TBW. I still don’t know if I agree with that though, but it’s certainly up there. When I finish it a second time I can access it better. Some things I really loved, but some things I really didn’t. ;)

You know, you are right. SNW actually DOES have TONS of potential, and its being squandered. If they just stopped writing modern dialogue such as “cool” and “you know I got this” and Pike calling his Helmsman “Erica” is unprofessional. If they went back to a more “neutral” way of speaking, THAT ALONE would improve the tone of the show immensely. I wish they would stop this modern 2023 slang. Its NOT STAR TREK.

Excellent point, about using 2023 catch phrases and dialogue. If I hear another ‘you got this,’. I’m going to lose it. It’s annoying and takes you out of the story.

I didn’t see it, but I understand the short-lived Willow series also suffered from this. They had Tolkien-esque characters speaking in 2023 dialect or something. It’s odd.

Oh yes I look forward to everyone saying “I’m trying to encourage you” very flatly from now on.

Hear hear, that’s maybe the only serious qualm I have about SNW, and modern Trek in general. It’s supposed to be set in the future. If you’re going to have characters speak and act the way we do, present it in a way that makes sense in the context of its setting.

Like in past Treks they would usually make them history buffs obsessed with the 20th century, playing on the holodeck and so forth. Or they would have them be unfamiliar with our time and we would see them time travel and try to adapt to our lingo and attitudes. A little contrived, sometimes a little too cute for its own good, but at least they were taking the timeline into consideration.

You know, why else set something in the far future unless you’re going to show how things have changed? And not just in terms of how sleek and shiny the tech is.

Pike is not the first captain to call at least some of his crew by first names (and, for that matter, we’ve had captains use nicknames.)

Except that in the modern Navy today on a submarine, that sort of informality is standard, even between officers and enlisted.

They are simply updating that to reflect more modern crew behavior. I have zero issues with.

I will agree some of the dialogue is a bit too informal and contemporary on SNW but it’s not the only show that does it either. LDS is easily the worst culprit. But yeah I wish they would do all less of it.

As far as Pike calling her Erica, I don’t have an issue with that at all. I have a feeling they have had a long friendship//relationship before they joined Enterprise together. And it’s keeping with the tradition of Captains calling a close friend by their first/nick name.

Kirk called McCoy Bones. McCoy called him Jim.
Picard called Crusher Beverly. She always called him Jean Luc.
Sisko called Dax Old Man. She always called him Ben.
Janeway called Tuvok…well Tuvok. ;) But he actually called her Katherine on (very) rare occasions.
Archer called Tucker Trip. He sometimes called him Johnathan but he usually said captain.

So what’s the issue? This is simply Pike and Erica’s thing. I can’t recall if she ever calls him Chris, but if so, they are probably just close friends like all of those. I see people say this constantly but no one seems bothered with those other informal names either.

Annnnnd I got no takers. ;)

Agreed. Picard S3 could not hold up SNW’s jockstrap.

Well, I guess I’ve heard my last Shuttle Pod podcast, alas. I’ve never been an avid listener, while having enjoyed them on occasion. . . But this declaration is a bridge too far for me, and by about a light year. I can’t come to any other conclusion that, for all of our sincere, mutual love for this franchise, at the end of the day we must love it for entirely different reasons. For their part it certainly can’t be for its vaunted optimism regarding the human condition, which is almost entirely missing in PIC S3. All of the TNG and franchise reference boxes are duly checked, except its soul. Yes, the past is important — as Faulkner famously noted, it’s not even really past. But somehow I think he was referring to something more vital and substantive than fanboy nostalgia.

What’s the matter, opinions can’t vary?
For everyone else, if you’re ever looking for an example of confirmation bias, this is it.

With respect, I don’t think “confirmation bias” means what you think it means.

It does, my response is badly worded. You seem to be done with this podcast, as it doesn’t align with your distaste of current Trek. I’m sure there are other sources of material that confirm your bias.

OK Phil, yeah, that makes sense to me now. Thanks

I’m feeling the same way about the ShuttlePod as Michael Hall.

To me, it’s crossed the line from having a viewpoint but respecting and acknowledging that there are other takes on what makes Trek and what’s good Trek, towards an implicit narrowing that marginalizes other points of view.

So that’s where I sign off.

it’s crossed the line from having a viewpoint but respecting and acknowledging that there are other takes on what makes Trek and what’s good Trek, towards an implicit narrowing that marginalizes other points of view.

Yeah, it’s obviously unintentional, and they all mean well, but it sort of ends up being, groupthink-gatekeeping.

I think that they are all better than this, so this is unfortunate.

OK, I have to listen to this thing now lol. I was going to yesterday but got too busy.

Not really. My point was not that others can’t have different views about a TV show than my own. If that were the case, obviously I wouldn’t be here. But after fifteen years of posting on this site it’s obvious that the moderators have a very different take on what constitutes good Trek (or even good drama) than I do. I wish them well in their podcasts, but after their latest comments I don’t see the point of tuning in myself, since for me it would be like spending an hour listening to a fan insist that “Spock’s Brain” was the best hour of TOS ever made. Life is too short, and I have other things to do.

Michael Hall, I would distinguish between The ShuttlePod Crew and Tony and Laurie’s All Access Podcast.

The ShuttlePod has increasingly crept into ‘That’s not Star Trek!!!’ moments over time.

It’s one reason why I thought it was good that they stepped back from covering every new episode when the tempo increased. There are clearly one or two who just can’t accept that there’s more than one way to look at it.

I’ve been enjoying the ShuttlePod’s retrospective pieces, and some of the Picard S3 commentary, but at some points I have felt that they have, unfortunately descended into unintended gatekeeping. I’ve said that here in response to those, and they’ve tried to say why and how they didn’t intend it that way. But I think it’s ingrained to the point that I just need to drop listening to that podcast.

Tony and Laurie definitely have views, but are careful to state that these are their personal reactions and not exclude or downtalk other perspectives. There’s that layer of journalistic distance. That’s important to me.

“Confirmation bias?” I think you are confused — that does not fit here.

You better avoid Inglorious Treksperts to because they gush about PIC season 3 every chance they can get.

No interest in “Inglorious Treksperts” at all, thanks.

I don’t feed those supposed “superfan” sites — I see too many loser-types (in my opinion) on those sites who, judging by their slovenly appearance and not-even-viable-for-thrift-shop clothing, I think are actually living off the dollars they get from the fans who buy into their constant whining, loud-mouth antics, over-the-top BS and fake expertise.

I LOVE Inglorious Trekspert but I have seen any of their videos about Picard. I’m curious now and will check out their thoughts, but not too surprised. They been more positive than negative about most of the new shows even if still critical like me. Thanks. :)

I’m a die-hard TOS and TNG fan, so I’m not sure if you and I are on the same page, but I’m an old-school classic Trekkie “purest” I guess. I don’t like Star Trek since 2009. Its just not Star Trek the way Gene Roddenberry envisioned it. BUT, as far as Picard S3, I thought the writing was phenomenal, and the entire conspiracy plot was interwoven together as tight as a drum. Matalas is a good writer. The only problem I had was (once again) the darker tone of the season, as far as the look. Many old-school fans had an issue with it. But the story was so engaging that I got past that. Now, what they did was combine the edge and esthetics of modern TV with the heart of TNG. An example would be the baby aliens that were born from the nebula. Kind of a “farpoint” feel to it, but that was a positive plot point, that was definitely Star Trek. But look man, lets take the big picture. We’ve been getting Star Trek with “no soul” since 2009. Here, as a purest, was looking for those character moments, and they did that. Its those conversations between our characters that made it good. The overall story was pretty dark. I know. But the Data/Lore plot, the fact that the “terrible weapon” that was stolen was Picard’s body…my jaw dropped, and I got goose bumps. Anyway, sorry to ramble. I loved Picard S3. But I’m not interested in Starfleet Academy, or Section 31. Apparently, S31 is no longer a secret. Good Lord.

Good comments, Chris. I pretty much agree with all that. I’m pretty old school as well (57). Cheers.

Well, what can I say? If you enjoyed it, more power to you, but “phenomenal,” really?! Just watched the series finale of “Succession” — now **that** was phenomenal writing at a level that Trek rarely even aspires to, let alone attains, and PIC S3 was far from that, with the exception of episode 4. Tight plotting? Riker’s plan to hitch a ride on the Titan, which kicks off the plot of the entire season, makes absolutely no sense at all, and even with the revelation about her motives Vadic remains a one-note villain . You cite Gene Roddenberry, and yet this show makes it clear (contra its titular character’s pronouncements thirty years ago) that humanity has made zilch in the way of moral progress in four centuries, something I think Roddenberry would have taken great exception to. And much worse than that, at the end of the day and in spite of some nice character work it has nothing to say about the human condition or the way we live our lives. If that’s “Star Trek,” it’s a Trek that reflects the darkness and cynicism of our current era without even paying lip service as to how we might transcend it. And for me, with respect, that’s no Trek at all, sorry.

Michael, I agree, Roddenberry would’ve hated this Star Wars-like action adventure bastardization of Star Trek. I’d be surprised if Rick Berman liked it either.

What we just watched was not TNG as I remember it, where intelligent adults in an advanced socially and scientific future worked together to solve problems and always worked to avoid situations that would result in mass bloodshed.

I really thought Succession was great too Michael. Loved the finale.

And I actually have to agree about how Roddenberry would’ve thought about this season and he probably wouldn’t have liked it it much either because it didn’t feel as optimistic. But I don’t care what Roddenberry thinks at all and he’s been dead for over 30 years.

And we’ve had this conversation before that I agree with you the season still felt a bit dark but I don’t have an issue with that personally. I never really cared that much about how optimistic or utopic Star Trek was. Again, I LIKE it, but it’s not why I ever watched and why I never had an issue with DS9 since that still gets criticized by some circles as being too dark and too much about war, even today. I disagree with them as well but sure it’s not always the most uplifting show either. ;)

But everyone will have a particular viewpoint about this specific issue. But Picard has been a pretty dark show every season IMO, but seasons 2 and 3 less so than season 1. At least we didn’t watch anyone get brutally tortured this season. (sigh)

It’s funny how people can have completely opposite opinions on something like this. Dude, the entire season to me had me thinking this this is what happens when you apply JJ Abram’s Star Wars-like Star Trek to The Next Generation. So you have me scratching my head when you are saying that this was basic to classic Trek after your distasted with JAA-Trek. Dude, Pic S3 was full-bore JAA-like Star Trek. And it was so JJA/Star Wars-like that it made DSC look like a serious hard science fiction series by comparison…lol

And the stuff that gave you goose bumps, well for me I was groaning and thinking, “Jesus, did they really just rip off that par of The Return of the Jedi too?”

IDIC I guess.

Here’s another take from an evidently very different kind of old school fan:

Finishing off a TNG reunion with lampshading of the worst kind of 19th century British military style rank family-influenced advancement in Starfleet is about the most soulless and cynical thing anyone could have done to the franchise.

It completely undoes the aspirational meritocracy of TOS that inspired me as a child in the 1960s.

All the other tributes of Picard season 3 were sabotaged for me by that.

We’ll said, Michael. I totally agree

I’m a little disheartened that I feel like Picard Season 3 id the last great Star Trek we’re going to get. As someone that grew up on TOS and TNG, I feel like I’m almost saying goodbye. Picard S3 was a smash hit. I just don’t understand why a spinoff wasn’t greenlit almost immediately…this “Star Trek Legacy” spinoff? Sounds like a no-brainer! I just don’t get it. Forget the fans for a second (bear with me)…..just from a business standpoint the dollar signs should have been lighting up the studio. And all my friends that are Trekkies were less than enthusiastic about Starfleet Academy, and definitely aren’t interested in Section 31. So Paramount, put the B.S. politics aside, and do what right. Its a win-win! Terry Matalas will make you money, and the fans happy! Lets do this!

This is a perfect example of opinions are going to vary. The production values were fine, and the actors all did well, but this story was a train wreck from beginning to end. A spin off wasn’t green lit “immediately” because the guys who actually have to approve this stuff, and the financial guys, all realized that trying to spin off a show where your characters are a bunch of barely interesting supporting cast members just won’t fly. What they would greenlight is TNG season 9. That’s what lit up the Neilson ratings, not Nepotism Jack and the twins.
Between the WGA strike, the pending SAG/DGA strike, and Paramount Globals financial woes, it may all be academic. Legacy won’t happen, and STA and S31 may fall by the wayside as well.

I guess we all can’t agree on everything. That’s okay. You are right about one thing: This primarily was successful because they brought back the entire TNG cast. The story being a train wreck though? The story was connected LITERALLY to the TNG series itself, and it was only fitting that Picard’s ultimate nemesis The Borg (yes, they were overused, but still…) were the final villain for Picard to come to terms with and defeat, similar to Star Trek VI, which the Klingons, Kirk’s ultimate baddies, gave us closure for not only him, but David Marcus as well. But it was a personal story for all our TNG characters, and everyone got something significant to do. The one thing I didn’t like is them Killing Shaw. I think him as Captain, and Seven as XO should have stayed to be a spinoff. So now we have 2 girl bosses in command. Whatever. Yeah, we wont agree totally. That’s ok. We are a diverse bunch. And we should never look down on DIVERSITY OF THOUGHT. Your opinion is just as valid as mine. I’m still right though. Just Kidding! LLAP!

Phil is 100% correct on all his major points. Legacy is not going to happen for the reason’s Phil mentioned. And the story was an F’ing train wreck that was much more JJA-Trek than Rodenberry/Berman TNG Trek.

And do any of us really to see Jack use his The Force-like powers (that he got from that silly Borg Brain rewrite) as a plot solver in 3 eps per year…no thanks, lol

We already got, The Picard Awakens, with Borg Queen Palpatine, Jack using his The Borg Force powers to pick the good side over evil and saving his father, and Data Calrissian’s incredible piloting to destroy the Death Qube, while meanwhile Princess Seven, Raffewbaca and their team performed her supporting mission near the nearby planet, so please, please, I don’t want to see Rise of Picard…lol

Like I said, I agree the ratings were heavily due to the entire TNG cast coming back. But if the story was a train wreck, it wouldn’t get into the top 10 of all streaming shows. You personally might have thought the story was a train wreck. That’s okay. But myself, and the majority of fans loved it, and the rating showed that. Sorry, I’m being diplomatic as possible conceding to some of your points, but the fans (most, not all) loved the story, and the performances, and I gotta say, I’ve never seen LeVar Burton so good. The performance of a lifetime. So, as far as the story, 100% won’t love it. That’s close to impossible. But the rating were through the roof, and all over YouTube, fans are praising what was done. If it was a train wreck, there wouldn’t be a petition to continue with Terry Matalas to do Legacy. The numbers and majority of fans responses don’t favor your opinion. Just for the record, Your opinion isn’t wrong. Neither is mine. They’re OPINIONS. We just disagree. The reports are on this website. Season3 was a smash hit. We see it differently. No problem. Lets hope whatever we get next is good! We all want good Star Trek! Lets start from there, and move on. :)

Oh by the way, one thing I’ll agree with you 100% is the Enterprise-D flying as fast as it was across the cube, bobbin’ and weavin’ like it was the Millennium Falcon. That’s not how these ships should move. I know in the series, many of the shots where ships were firing were static, which, realistically in a battle you’re constantly in motion. I like the Wrath of Khan style, where they literally move slow like Navy Ships. Or a compromise would be maybe Nemesis? The flying around wasn’t ridiculous, but there was plenty of maneuvering without the Enterprise acting like an F-18 lol. Totally with you on that. Plus its more tense! In Wrath of Khan, during the Genesis Countdown when they only have thrusters, the Reliant is going to explode in 3 minutes, and the Enterprise is turning SO SLOWLY, but you’re biting your nails like “come on, move it! Get outta there!” The tension is incredible, with James Horners music just getting the blood pumping. You know in the story that they’llmake it, but for a moment, you think they actually might not. I miss when TV and movies created that kind of tension. Oh well. :)

Good Kahless, seriously? I hated this show, overall, and I’d be willing to bet fifty million quatloos (or my mortgage-free house) that Mr. Matalas will get his “Legacy” series (or whatever) greenlit soon enough, so why all the angst? Do you really think that the bean counters are unaware of the general reaction to PIC S3, and that they have something against making money? Be patient, Grasshopper, and good things will follow. 😊

Will do.

I would not make that bet. I think is less than likely for the reason’s Phil has outlined in his post on this topic today..

One of the observations regarding streamers on the business channel today held that for some of these streamers a few (as in single digits) of shows drive the majority of their viewership. Let’s face it, Paramount Global falls into that category. It’s basically the YellowTrek service. It’s also not a sustainable business model.

We’ll find out if The Outer Rim starring Nepotism Jack and the Twins has any value when Netflix orders up a season. Or CBS sticks it TV.

Yeah, and I think because of this we are going to see more consolidation. Disney+ is eating Hulu now, and HBO and HBO Max are now fully integrating. I don’t know where P+ would go though? Perhaps an alliance that essentially merges P+ into Apple TV+ might work? I have major concerns about the viability of P+’s ongoing worldwide rollout too.

It’s more likely to just go away, there really isn’t anything there to merge or acquire outside of YellowTrek. Whatever value these IP’s have will come from whatever Paramount Global can license them for. For all the folks crying that Kurtzman needs to just go away, Wall Street likely is going to grant them their wish.

The name may go away, but Yellowstone and Trek streaming can and likely would sold and merged into another network — those properties have value. So I think my point stands.

There is also time for P+ to pull in many of the niche networks to increase their footprint — Peacock, Pluto TV, BritBox, The Criterion Channel, and others.

Outside the US Disney+ carries Hulu, FX, and STAR. Looking from outside, it’s been pretty obvious that consolidation would be happening.

Paramount rolling in Showtime and its other specialty cable channel content into P+ was always just a matter of time. With all the other stuff rolling in, such as Yellowjackets, and new content for Beavis and Butthead and Teen Wolf, Paramount is building a bigger base.

To me, the key thing that people are overlooking with Paramount is that it’s making a hard strategic turn to producing content outside the United States.

Paramount has huge studios in South America. It is already doing well in Spanish speaking countries with PlutoTV as well as P+ and linear. They also have significant capacity in the UK and Europe.

They are consciously shifting investments in new production to these other countries while cutting US jobs, not just to cut costs but to actually serve the markets where they are building P+ subscriber base.

Netflix is doing well globally in part because they have leaned hard into global content, not just American content produced in other countries to reduce costs.

Will Paramount’s shows from outside the United States be hits in the US? Not necessarily, but if they pull in and hold subscribers elsewhere, that’s what’s needed.

I don’t see WBDiscovery, NBCUniversal or Disney making the same fairly radical shift as Paramount in terms of vulnerability. So, I wouldn’t lump them together.

Whether Paramount gets where it needs to fast enough, before getting absorbed into something bigger is a fair question. In terms of strategy though, they seem to be more radical and have have a good chance of squeaking by.

Interesting, that seems pretty smart of Paramount actually. I don’t see why the South Korea model should not work in other regions. I think I am an exception, but I would say about 20% of what I watch are foreign shows (mostly Asian), and I prefer to watch them with subtitles versus dubbed. It’s nice to see what other cultures can contribute to our entertainment.

Agreed. Most fans were already begging for a spin off show before season 3 and that’s when most thought the show sucked lol. Now, the calls gotten louder since season 3 is a huge hit in terms of views and reception. Especially once Kurtzman says he heard fans. And it’s great to have sites like this actively pushing for it. Now if you just don’t like it, understandable but not everyone is going to like every show obviously, but this is just a no-brainer.

It just may not happen right away. But how that ISN’T the next show after SFA, would seem odd to me.

If Netflix orders up a season you’ll have your answer.

Sadly I don’t know if its a good or bad thing if Netflix got Star Trek anymore. Five years ago it would’ve been a no-brainer. But today, the way they cancel shows so quickly I might be a little nervous if they ended up licensing Star Trek.

Tiger King made them money. If Trek makes them money, they’re players.

LOL excellent point!

Thanks for the podcast. I agree that renaming the Titan USS Picard would have been more appropriate. Kayla hit the nail on the head “It’s not the Enterprise!”. Exactly! I don’t care about the Titan legacy. No ship deserves the name Enterprise, not even the USS Yorktown (presumably) when it was renamed Enterprise-A. The Titan was an average ship and the design didn’t even make sense. Calling it a Neo-Constitution class doesn’t change the clunky design that looks like it should precede the Enterprise refit.

Considering they named that ugly-as-shit, “incrementalism prevails” piece of crap labeled NX-01 as Enterprise, this doesn’t get me all that excited…yet, I do agree with you.

Sadly agree with this Silvereyes. I’m still not a huge fan of the ship overall and I would’ve just preferred a new ship for the Enterprise G completely. That said, when I went to the IMAX screening, that reveal got huge applause so it seems lots of people truly liked it.

You don’t name a ship after a still-living person (well, a quasi-living person.)

Then leave it as the Titan.

John Stennis would disagree.

A cursory check on this apparent segregationist has him dying the better part of a year prior to the ship putting to sea.

Plus, the earlier call to name the ship after him came from Reagan, which makes me think that he was just defying convention because he could (thinking of air traffic controller mass firings, makes me believe Reagan would have rooted for the bad guys in MATEWAN), not because it was proper or right.

Star Trek: Picard offers a master class to holders of similarly valuable IP in how to delight fans both old and new. And in today’s crowded and highly competitive streaming landscape, it should offer a powerful incentive for Paramount to give fans more of what they want. Not only did the Season 3 premiere perform well for Paramount+, topping the Season 4 premiere of “Star Trek Discovery” by more than 40%, but momentum built week after week as showrunner Terry Matalas and colleagues reintroduced a delightful cadence of familiar fan-favorite characters with each episode. – The Wrap


There was a segment on the business channel that obliterated this argument. Streamers that rely on only a few shows to generate the majority of their viewership are not sustainable business models.

Well given that the quote was from a chicken-bacon-avocado wrap, what can we expect?

I actually quoted from that same article here that also pointed out Picard didn’t just get stronger ratings as the season progressed but it picked up a large Gen Z audiennce segment as well. So it manage to not just attract old fans but also new and young fans at the same time. This is what people been saying Star Trek needs to do to expand the base and Picard did just that. ;D

This season is a massive hit on every level. It’s probably the most successful season of Star Trek out of all the new shows in nearly every barometer. THIS is really what the show should’ve been in season one. And it’s probably what they wanted if Stewart wasn’t so adamant about not doing a reunion show.

Every week, people argue here that NuTrek focuses too much on nostalgia. But it works! It works, works, works, works! It’s been this way since the Kelvin movies and obviously worked there too…at least the first two movies. This is exactly why Picard, Janeway and Pike are all stars of these new shows today. It’s a no-brainer to have Seven as the lead in the Legacy show and she’s probably more popular than Pike and even Janeway in some circles. I am happy with the Starfleet Academy idea and I DO think it needs to happen. But there is no guarantee that’s going to be a success either.

With the Legacy show, it’s not even a question lol. Certainly not now. And it proves that it can grow the market with new fans as Picard did. And that’s going to focus on new and younger characters anyway. So there is really no argument why Paramount shouldn’t do it. It really should be the next show in fact, but I don’t think Paramount had any clue what they had.

They do now. ;)

I agree that Picard Season 3 is the best Star Trek since DS9 ended in 1999. I might even say 1998, since I was not a big fan of season 7 of DS9, IMHO.

I look forward to buy Picard Season 3 on Blu Ray and rewatch it many times over. This will be the first time I bought a Trek series on Blu Ray since TOS.

Actually, it was by the far the best Star Trek since The Cage completed filming in January 1965. Just incredibly good. Better by far than all of the Star Trek movies as well. And even better than 2001, Star Wars, Blade Runner and The Raiders of the Lost Ark all combined!

You left out CITIZEN KANE, Frankenheimer’s Paranoia Trilogy, SE7EN and CHILDREN OF MEN … to say nothing of ACTION JACKSON!

Lol, yeah!

Sarcasm or drug use?

Can’t there also be a sarcastic use of drugs?

I am happy that so many people love this season. Me too although not as much as others. But now that I’m rewatching it a second time, I am actually enjoying it more the second time so I may end up agreeing with your assessment as well.

I mean I like these podcast participants — they are all well meaning superfans. However it disappoints me how quickly they have all seemed to have forgotten what the TNG was all about. It was about intelligent characters in the 24th century solving problems with their minds and in a peaceful way that avoided large-scale bloodshed wherever possible. It was intellectual and it was reaffirming for those of us who want a better future for mankind.

Picard S3 through all of this out the window and went full bore JJ Abrams, with a mega action adventure Star Wars-like rewrite of TNG. Please don’t try to tell me otherwise — it is what it is.

So to claim this is the best Star Trek season since DS9 I think does a major disservice to what TNG was all about, and subverts the entire premise in the meaning of the show that Gene Roddenberry and Rick Berman intended.

This season of Picard did a decent job of providing the fan service, sentimental final send off that the fans wanted, but let’s please not confuse that with this being great Star Trek. This was bad Star Trek, and it doesn’t deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with the great DS9 series.

The TNG era gave us the Dominion War, bloodletting that made the Klingons look like amateurs. That’s a pretty substantial contradiction to most everything you’ve been bitching about lately…..and it hasn’t gone unnoticed.

Nope, I was talking about TNG and it’s origins with Rodenberry and Berman. Pic S3 was the closing chapter in TNG, not DS9. And Pic S3 did not come off as like TNG — where were the intelligent characters solving problems with their minds and in a peaceful way that avoided large-scale bloodshed wherever possible? Where was the intellectual and reaffirming themes for those of us who want a better future for mankind? That’s what TNG was all about, and that was all so tragically lacking in Pic S3.

The best Trek since DS9 ended? Agreed. But it still wasn’t great.

Hello Shuttle Pod Crew!

Thank you for a great analysis of the series finale.

I grew up on Voyager/DS9. I watched the TNG films but didn’t get into TNG until the DVD releases and occasional episodes on TV. It’s not one of my favorite trek shows. That being said, I felt Pic S3 was a masterpiece. I loved it. I thought Terry did a wonderful job in bringing this crew back together and giving their characters depth. I felt the TNG crew never got what Ira did for DS9. Gates, Levar, and Jonathan were my favorites this season.

The only time I was taken out of an episode was bringing Ro Laren back. It didn’t make any sense storywise. It felt like Terry took the day off and someone went fan happy on the writing staff.

Overall, a great ending for TNG. It’s definitely the best season since Disco S1.


Great post and glad you loved it KevinB! :)

Didn’t love it as much as you but overall I did love it and happy to see Shuttle Pod love it as well. But I really loved seeing Ro but yeah I won’t disagree it did a bit shoehorned in there.

I was introduced to TNG in 1991, and I was always bummed that a couple of my favorite characters seemed to get left behind. You’re right about the comparison of TNG to DS9 (as far as character development goes). PIC S3 corrected that. Not only did did we get reacquainted with our old TNG friends, but Gates and LeVar really got to shine.

I was bummed Ro Laren was brought back for one episode only to be killed off. Her return might have worked better if the third season had 13 episodes instead of 10.

The Navy has accelerated programs to be an officer in less than four years (if you already have a degree), why not Starfleet? I’m sure Jack has some post-secondary education, probably in the medical field. His one-year Starfleet Academy accelerated program is totally plausible.

Agreed! I’m sure there are alternatives to joining Starfleet besides the academy. I totally bought it. Besides, his parents have pull. He could also be earning credit on the G. Maybe, his training hasn’t ended.

They made a 3 year Starfleet cadet while on academic suspension a captain of their flag ship after being in space for a few days in Star Trek 09. I don’t really think Jack getting an accelerated position is a big deal in the world of NuTrek lol.

It’s still an apples to oranges comparison. When my son went into the Navy, the recruiter wanted to meet us. He asked me what I did, I told him I was an insurance agent/financial advisor. That’s nice, he said. He asked my wife the same thing. I’m a Registered Nurse, she said. The guys eyes lit up, asked her if she’d be interested in giving the Navy a couple of years as a 2nd Lt, no basic training, pay and benefits. Basically, she’d get a spiffy uniform, and go down to San Diego once a month to give new sailors their shots. Not a bad gig. So, yes, there are programs, but for specific skills that are needed.

I’d kinda assumed that Jack Crusher was a doctor as well, but on rewatch, it doesn’t seem to be the case. He’s just a pain in the ass sheltered momma’s boy. No real skills, a criminal record. But when dad is Jean Luc and mom’s the head of Starfleet Medical, a couple semesters classes at the Academy lands you a job as member of a bridge crew. Or maybe Starfleet is so hard up for bridge officers that if you are breathing and not in prison, you’re hired.

“Or maybe Starfleet is so hard up for bridge officers that if you are breathing and not in prison, you’re hired.”

This was literally the same excuse given why they gave a 25 year old 3 year cadet the keys to the Enterprise as Captain because apparently Nero wiped out 90% of Starfleet I guess (it was only like 8 ships or something but still).

In the end, both did it because they just wanted these characters in those places. Yes it’s lazy and silly but this has been happening since 2009. I don’t think anyone should be that surprised.

Who knows, maybe Starfleet had a bad day in the Laurentian System as well?

To a point more then a few have made, people who were turning purple and venting their collective spleen that JJ’s Kirk went from cadet (on probation/potential expulsion) to Captain over the course of about three days have been demanding more adventures of Terry’s Nepotism Jack.

I’m not really to worked up about it, personally, Trek has made the effort to pay attention to continuity, all be it loosely, but is started long before Trek 2009. If Captain Jack gets his own show someday, and he spends some time reminiscing about being Sevens cabin boy on the Enterprise (don’t call me Titan) Gee, I’ll probably watch that, too….

Sure, because they simply like the show and that’s just small beans to them end of the day. Just like many had no issues with Kirk being a Captain in 3 days and was still excited for more adventures with those characters and universe. Again, we’re not a monolith. Some will love one and hate the other or vice versa. For me, I can tell you I hated both equally lol. I also complained about Seven getting promoted to Captain in season 2 of Picard and I adore Seven…it was still ridiculous. It’s no way she should be Captain even now (but certainly waaaaay more than Kelvin Kirk lol). Don’t get me started on Tilly and her XO promotion lol. But I also accept it all because it’s just fiction, but in all these cases just very lazy fiction IMO.

But this is a NuTrek thing. I don’t get worked up on any of it because as shown they been doing it over and over again. At least Jack wasn’t made a senior officer…but we’ll see what happens if the spin off happens. ;)

And I’m not saying continuity gaps only started in 2009, I’m just talking about all the crazy Starfleet promotions. I can’t recall where any of them just jumped multiple ranks in a matter of years, months or as been pointed out even in days in the classic shows. There were special concessions like making the Maquis crew essentially Starfleet officers and even rankings on Voyager but that was a very special circumstance. But one that Starfleet obviously accepted once they got home because it sounds like all of them were able to stay officers and even promoted higher like Chakotay and Paris were. And Janeway probably fought like hell convincing Starfleet they earned those ranks after seven years in the Delta quadrant.

But I really liked seeing characters like Wesley and Nog start from the bottom and work their way up. Both had way more experience than Kelvin Kirk in actual ship and combat experience and neither got higher than ensign before those shows ended IIRC.

Not a fan of Jack or his position on the Titan. I do think 2009 is a bit different- middle of a crisis, Pike captured…here they are in space dock, just like here ya go Ensign, first day on the job and we’ve made a new bridge position just for you! Special boy!

I find Nog’s story so much more compelling- there was a lot of struggle there, Wesley was a golden child, academy shoe-in.

I hope if there is a spin off they assign him an actual job and focus more on the new crew under Sevens leadership.

Well sure, if it’s temporary! The issue with Kirk is he was then just made a full time Captain after being in command for just a few hours. We seen people take command when a Captain is relieved of duty in the past, but they don’t stay Captain when the crisis is over either.

And then of course what is more strange about the situation I rarely seen brought up about it (although maybe more when the movie was released) is that Spock is promoted to Captain by Pike, but then he relinquishes command to Kirk…and just becomes a first officer again? Why? Reliving yourself of duty doesn’t mean you lose your ranking in the process. So why does Spock lose his promotion but Kirk automatically gets one? It’s so bizarre and it’s never brought up again.

Of course all of this was done so they can all be in their usual places like in the show, but it’s so ridiculous how they got there. But it is what it is obviously.

Yeah Nog is definitely the most compelling for sure and also being the first Ferengi is Starfleet. Yes Wesley is basically a Starfleet kid and was basically groomed to become one his whole life, so it doesn’t have the same impact. But he wasn’t perfect either as the First Duty showed. He definitely made mistakes even if he was a whiz kid.

Great episode! I was happy to hear that you had the same idea. I did that the titan would be renamed the USS Picard. That would’ve been fitting, but I understand the marketing reasons behind naming it the Enterprise.

One criticism I was expecting to hear, and I’ve not seen it anywhere else, is birth control in the 25th century. One thing that was really lacking for me was the idea, it was never discussed, which is that Beverly wanted to get pregnant. After all the losses she had she wanted another child and she wanted to be Picard’s child.

It seems to me that birth control in the 25th century would be even better than it is today, so either Picard wasn’t using birth control or Beverly wasn’t or they both were and she somehow got pregnant anyway and decided to keep the baby. This was an important conversation that never happened. What does anybody else think about this?

Great point and it kind of mystifies me

I immediately thought of the end of DS9, when Kassidy announces she’s pregnant. Sisko admits he kept putting off Bashir’s request to come and “get his shot.” I realize human lifespans are longer in Trek, but maybe it was just a case of Beverly and Jean-Luc thinking it couldn’t happen?

Hi all – thank you for the feedback. It took awhile to get this one out, and we had a lot of ground to cover!

I am quite honestly bewildered as to the accusations of gatekeeping. Never, at any point, on any podcast we’ve done, have we told anyone what they should or shouldn’t like. I’ve had it done to me, and I would never, ever do it to someone else.

This episode was a review, where we critique and give our viewpoints about what we saw and how we feel it fits into the franchise. These are opinions, not decrees to be sent out and obeyed across fandom. You can agree or disagree – as a matter of fact, some of the best Trek conversations I’ve ever had were debates.

That said, being upset or put off at someone having opinions different from your own and then framing it as something that needs to be criticized is, in fact, gatekeeping.

If what we have to say bothers you, rest assured there are many, many other Trek podcasts out there that will undoubtedly give you exactly what you’re looking for.

I think you all do a tremendous job on the podcast! When people are critical, that’s a sign that some of what you said comes across as provocative — I think that’s a good thing and it generates a lot of interesting fan discussion. You have an audience that cares what you say, so if a few of us react (perhaps over-react sometimes) when we might think you overreach a tad (e.g. Pic S3 is the best Trek since DS9), that is a sign that we listened to your podcast and care what you say about Star Trek.

Keep up the good work! I think that generating a lot of fan discussion means that we all care what you say and that we want more of it. Don’t sweat it that you ruffle some feathers now and then — ruffling feathers make the fan discussion just that more interesting.

PS: I agree with your definition of gatekeeping, and I think most of us here have posted along lines before that could fit with that definition, so it’s something we all need to be careful about.

You make a lot of good points. If people aren’t talking, then they don’t care.

And btw – the opinion about DS9 was my own. Jared felt it was the best since ’09, and Matt and Kayla didn’t give an opinion at all.

You guys did a great job! I hope the shuttle Pod crew considers doing the same for SNW. I don’t have trekkie friends, so I love the conversations you guys do on trek topics. It makes me feel like part of the conversation.

Hi Brian. I loved the podcast and thanks for sharing your thoughts on the season. I thought you made the most salient point of all when you said that Picard S3 had shown how modern Star Trek could (and perhaps should) be done and that Trek on TV may never be the same again. I share this view and also that in the wake of the critic and audience reaction, that there should be a major rethink of Trek on TV.

IMO, Picard S3 was just so far ahead of everything that we’ve had for the last 20 years (even SNW which I greatly enjoyed) that I struggle with the notion that we can really go back to the style of programming we’ve been getting. Personally, I’ve perhaps been spoiled by Picard and I know I will struggle with the shows that are coming down the Pike unless they raise their game.

I appreciate that you point out both the good and the bad about the show, nothing is perfect. And, as you said, it is your opinion.