Anthony and Laurie start with the news: Noah Hawley revealed that his Star Trek movie would have starred Cate Blanchett and Rami Malek. They talk about the upcoming release of season 4 of Lower Decks and the Star Trek spatial experience on Apple Vision Pro, and William Shatner’s thoughts on an AI version of Captain Kirk. Then they dig into Tony’s interviews at the recent Saturn Awards, where he spoke to Doug Jones, Paul Wesley, Tawny Newsome, Jeri Ryan, Terry Matalas, Michelle Hurd, Michael Dorn, Marina Sirtis, Brent Spiner, Wil Wheaton, Nicolas Cage, and Zach Galligan.
Links:
‘Star Trek: Picard’ Wins 4 Saturn Awards, ‘Strange New Worlds’ Wins 1
Cate Blanchett And Rami Malek Might Have Starred In Noah Hawley’s Shelved Star Trek Movie
‘Star Trek: Lower Decks’ Season 4 Arrives On Digital Today, DVD And Blu-ray In April
‘The Archive’ Star Trek Spatial Experience Released For Apple Vision Pro
William Shatner Open To AI Version Of His James T. Kirk In New Star Trek, Under A Specific Condition
Wil Wheaton talks about being included with TNG cast [Facebook]
Exclusive: Nicolas Cage Explains Why He Wants To Be In Star Trek, Confirms “Comments” From Paramount
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Terry Matalas: The Harve Bennett or Manny Coto for us die-hard Trekkies…
Terry is a die-hard Trek fan. So more like Manny Coto than Harve Bennet. But I get the point, each of those guys took over a Trek project that was struggling in prior years and improved it.
Just as many viewers dropped out of watching Enterprise in Coto’s two seasons as in the first two seasons — fans then weren’t buying the uber fan service and more action Trek that he was selling. The “Many Coto saved Enterprise” thing is rectconned BS — it never happened that way.
This is an urban legend created in the last few years by a small, but very vocal group of fans on a few Trek fan web sites who have decided that all of a sudden that failed series was great Star Trek by him in the final two seasons — but the legend has no basis in reality.
Harve Bennett was the real deal though — he’s one of the greats!
It definitely isn’t a new urban legend of the last few years. “Saved Enterprise” is overstating things (the show was doomed no matter what after burned-out Berman and Braga ruined it) but he definitely breathed new life into Enterprise when he took over. There was ample discussion of that at the time in the old usenet forums like rec.arts.tv.startrek.
Sure, we can always find fans on the old web (aol, usenet, Trek BBS, etc.) who liked Enterprise, but that’s always was a very small, niche group in the past. It’s only since the mid-teens that this wishful thinking retcon of Enterprise, and especially the Coto years, has ramped up the numbers a bit in that group with the narrative facade that Enterprise was great Star Trek and that Manny Coto made a significant difference.
Two things here. First, I have been going to ST conventions for several decades. During conventions in the 2000’s, most fans bitched about Enterprise being bad Star Trek, and many were kind of relieved it got cancelled…and you seldom heard from fans or discussions at those conventions this narrative that Manny Coto’s two years made a difference, in fact, the majority of fans then would tell you that Enterprise S2 was bit better than S1, and they thought that the quality of S3 (Coto) regressed a bit.
Secondly, if you look at the viewership levels of S3 and S4, not only did the viewership levels drop between seasons at nearly the exact same rate as in the pre-Coto seasons, but within S3 and S4, viewers kept dropping the show week to week — in other words, despite this supposedly improved Star Trek that Coto was putting out, more fans kept dropping out every week of the season — in both S3 and S4.
With the exception of the attempt to explain the TOS Klingons, and of course that horrible finale, I enjoyed everything Coto and Team did in Season 4. I did like the second season better than the third,though, S3 did produce some standouts like “Carpenter Street.”
Enterprise would have been cancelled anyway. If Season 5 had happened, that season finale would have aired a month or two before UPN shut down and was absorbed by The WB to make The CW. I don’t recall any of UPN’s more expensive-to-produce shows making the jump. The most expensive shows the CW absorbed came from the WB, and they didn’t have budgets anywhere near ENT’s budget.
Terry is for sure but Bennett understood very well too like Terry and Coto. Coto especially made Enterprise some of the best Trek, especially for an old TOS fan like me and I really don’t like prequels either.
I honestly wasn’t a fan of Enterprise when it first started, but today I love it. I really wish we could get a fifth season of it and I don’t love prequels either…everyone here will tell you that lol.
I still wish we got Coto’s fifth season of the show. I remember making a post about it on Reddit discussing all the ideas they had for it and I think it would’ve been amazing and probably up there with both TNG and DS9’s fifth seasons.
Yes I would love a fifth season of Enterprise as well. There is still so much to cover in that period. I’m a little disappointed we never got to see the Romulan war.
I’ll go along with that, yes!
To each his own, but I’d say more like The Fred Freiberger or Stuart Baird of Star Trek.
Preach! 👍
Bennett, Coto and Matalas made some of best Trek around.
I wish Coto could’ve done something with Discovery… like make it good.
Discovery is a lost cause. Been the case since the first season and only gotten worse if that was possible.
I’ve been a Star Trek fan since 1968 and all three of these guys brought us great Star Trek. Bennett made those TOS films shine.
Matalas finally brought back the Star Trek I been missing since Enterprise ended after enduring all this Abrams/Secret Hideout junk.
Seriously, Picard S3 is the first thing that felt like Star Trek to me since Enterprise ended.
Star Trek for me was 1966-2005. TOS will always be top of the heap for me but enjoyed all the others as well. TNG easily my second favorite. Enterprise is my third.
Matalas was the first to bring the magic of that era back after suffering through those embarrassing Abrams movies and now these new shows.
Now they are making a Section 31 streaming movie starring the Space Nazi. Pass.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but Picard S3 to me was the most JJ Abrams-like TV season of Star Trek ever produced. It was basically Star Wars masquerading as Star Trek, and bore very little resemblance to TNG I loved which had very smart people who behave more mature and better than humans today, who work together to solve problems and avoid or minimize violence and war. And the last two episodes of Picard S3 is literally a carbon copy of ROTJ, with a bit of The Walking Dead thrown in for good measure — just weak-mind “lite sf” tv drama. What salvaged the season was the great acting and nice personal sendoff the cast/characters got.
We disagree. Take it easy.
You too.
I personally like to call her Adolf for short! It saves time. 🙂
And totally agree about Matalas! Someone who totally understands Star Trek and these characters.
That’s exactly the problem — it’s only about as good as Enterprise.
Not for me because I love Enterprise. Always have.
But you do you boo.
:-)
Would noah Hawley have been the gene l. Coon for die-harders? Guess we’ll never know (but I sure will be watching a non-par+ station when Hawley’s Alien series starts airing!)
Yep I feel the same way as everyone else. I think Matalas really has taken up the mantle of what people like Harve Bennet and Manny Coto have done that many fans loved over the years. I didn’t think Picard season 3 was perfect by any means, but it did feel like a great throwback to classic Trek that we did get with both the TOS movies and the last two seasons of Enterprise. I’m certainly not a hater of NuTrek and enjoy quite a bit of it today but I admit I still miss the kind of Trek we got in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s.
But I say that as a die hard Trekkie. ;D
Was Patrick actually there? He looks almost photoshopped into that photo.
That was a fun batch of interviews. That seems like breaking news that Paul Wesley is coming back as Kirk in SNW S3. I haven’t seen it officially noted anywhere before that interview.
One of the criticisms of Paul Wesley being cast in SNW is that Kirk would be in his 20s and Wesley is in his late 30s. If he is being set up for a Kirk show after SNW, I wonder if it might be the adventures of the TOS crew in between TOS and the movies? Maybe they would reinvent the Star Trek Phase II concept?
He’s double Kirk’s age. Paul Wesley is 41
And looks it. Weird casting; good performance, but weird casting.
I don’t like him as Kirk. No one touches Shatner IMO. Pine was alright, but Wesley is my least favorite take.
Agreed. I still think he sucks too.
It may not have been noted officially so far but I guess most people expected Wesley to return as Kirk since he has been a recurring character on the show.
IMO, there are only a couple of good stories developed by Povill and co and still unused from p2, but there are more than a couple novels set in that period that were better than okay. I think setting it in a before TMP time is a decent idea, to just bypass TOS era — or better still, in the decade+ between TMP and TWOK, where you could change things up visually. As much as I dislike his Kirk and can’t understand the thought behind his casting, this guy might be good at playing the somewhat out of his element Kirk between TMP and TWOK.
He’s a horrible Kirk IMO and makes no sense being on the Enterprise this early. He looks way too old and no personality whatsoever. Another bizarre Kurtzman Trek eye roll. They have made the canon to TOS completely nonsensical, especially with the Gorn.
Kirk will probably be fighting one next season with Khan girl rip off.
Which of course explains why he is winning awards for his performance as Kirk.
Whoops!!! Lol^2. :-))
Are you a teenager? What’s with the whoops as if you just made some point?
Entertainment is subjective. There are plenty of movies and shows that have won many awards I personally think stinks, his performance especially.
I don’t let other people away my opinion just because they won an Oscar. I’m here to give my own. And he’s a horrible Kirk in my view. And others agree. If they didn’t he would still be horrible to me.
And it still doesn’t take away from the bigger issue that he has no business being on the ship this early. It just comes off desperate to throw in as much needless fan service as possible. It doesn’t match TOS at all.
It was simply that your comment greatly entertained me. It’s fine that you don’t let awards influence your opinion, but it’s comical when you then go the extra mile to make fun of Kurtzman for casting him when the dude did win a significant media award for playing the role.
When people overplay their comments like this, I find it greatly amusing — you came across as the teenager here with you middle school level personal attack on Kurtzman — that was silly and petulant, and gave me a great laugh…thanks, I like funny posts like that.
I didn’t care about your opinions, you are weird and obsessive and can’t seem to handle people disagreeing with you. Not my problem. Please stop talking to me.
Trust me take my advice now and interact with him as little as possible. The guy has issues to say the least as he’s been called out multiple times by various people and obsesses over the littlest things. Most here knows it and bother with him as little as possible.
He gets triggered over everything lol. You just got a sample of it. 😂
Thanks for the warning. Yeah I was starting to get that sense when every reply from him was coming off obsessive and very defensive. I haven’t started a single conversation with this person at all but he seems to want to start useless arguments with me over things I don’t care about or thinks I remotely care about his opinions.
Everyone else has been fun to talk to even when we disagree.
But will do. Thanks again.
No problem! 👍
This was a great podcast per usual. And I’m sure I’ve said this to Laurie before but I usually agree with 99.9% of everything she says. It’s quite amazing. Anthoney it’s still 99.1%. ;)
But I agree with Laurie over the new Kirk (eh), no interest in yet another TOS reboot/redux, whatever, especially with Wesley’s Kirk. I also really loved hearing all the talk from the actors over a possible Legacy show. It’s funny how their thoughts if it will happen or not are all over the place like this board lol. Some feel it will never happen while others think (like me) it’s only a matter of time, etc. But they seem to be realistic about it if it happens or not.
I just think it’s a total no brainer personally. I really wish it was 2020 again when they had 5 shows in production and not just the three they have now (sans Prodigy) and we would probably have the show today.
I also think it would be a perfect fit with all the other shows they have and really spread out the dynamic.
You have SNW back in the 23rd century and basically a TOS prequel as much of a Pike show and appealing to TOS fans.
Then you have LDS/PRO taking up the 24th century era and a nice throwback to the TNG era while appealing both younger and older fans.
Then you have SFA which is a completely new idea in the far future of the 32nd century appealing to Discovery fans but also people who just want a clean slate in a completely new century. Something I been wanting since VOY went off the air.
And then finally you have Legacy which would be a post-TNG era show in the 25th century setting up the next generation of adventures on a new Enterprise. I think this show would fulfill the part of the fanbase who wants to see what comes next after the 24th century with a mix of old and new characters.
This would be an amazing line up, although it’s still good without Legacy…but it would be better with it. ;)
Yeah… I have nothing against Paul Wesley as a person, but the idea of him leading a Star Trek series as Kirk is dismaying to me. It’s leaning into SNW’s weaknesses instead of its strengths.
To each his own. I am loving his updated Kirk and can’t wait for a TOS-based series with him as the lead.
Great job as usual on your podcast!
Agreed. Maybe he will be better in season 3 but he has done almost nothing for me so far. I don’t want ANOTHER TOS reboot lol, but even less so with him in it.
Leave TOS alone. It was lightning in a bottle they will never recreate again. Do something new and keep going forward like we got with TNG, DS9 and VOY. All great shows on their own that carved out new characters and stories that I still enjoy watching today.
Stop messing with the past or you get ridiculous stories like the Gorm running into the Enterprise five years before they did in Arena. Or T’Pring milling about the Enterprise even though no one even knew who she was in Amok Time. It just wreck everything in TOS canon. I can’t imagine how bad another TOA show would be by these people?
The Abrams movies are another example why it’s best not to try when you have to turn them into modern day action junkies who come off like kids instead of the serious people on the original show. Pine isn’t playing Kirk, he’s playing the Abercrombie caricature version of Kirk. Nothing close to how Shatner made that character so iconic.
And Wesley is certainly Shatner. He’s not even Chris Pine.
Fully agree, I always think Star Trek should be going forwards and not backwards. And yeah partly for the reasons you stated, for whatever reasons they seem to have hard times keeping the prequels lining up with previous canon. That was one of Enterprise’s biggest complaints at the time. Now that show feels way more in line with Trek canon after getting DIS and SNW lol.
And for the record I really like SNW, but it’s canon is just nonsensical at this point and we are only in season 2. We have Kirk showing up waaaay too early hanging out with a Khan descendant who back story is tied directly to the Gorn.
And then you have Spock and T’Pring who is now in some bizarre three way triangle with Chapel who comes off like a younger Lawxana Troi than she does Chapel. Kirk’s brother is now an official member of the Enterprise and works directly with Spock. And of course Scotty has now shown up and I wouldn’t be shocked if he and Uhura start dating. I’m joking…sort of lol.
And then you have the Gorn….sigh. None of makes a lick of sense when tied to TOS.
But yeah what are they doing???? It’s all over the place. I have been hard on DIS canon issues in the past and while I like SNW as a show overall, I would be a hypocrite if I ignored all its canon issues as well. But the difference is the show feels exactly like Star Trek again. it doesn’t feel any different than TOS/TNG/VOY/ENT did. That was always DIS biggest issue IMO. If it just felt more like Star Trek and less like GOT, people may have over looked those issues more. I guess we’ll never know.
As far as another TOS show, what’s the point? We already know where all these characters ultimately end up and all they are going to do is make things worst in terms of canon. They can reboot it but wasn’t that the point of the Kelvin movies???
Anyway, I’m not against using these characters again and would be for a SNW spin off, just do something new with it. I would be all in with a Chin Riley show and being a new Captain the same way Seven is a new Captain. Or give us a Pelia show, I would love that but I think I’m in the minority. But regurgitating an old show just does nothing for me. I have zero interest in a TNG revival show as well, but my guess that will happen in the next 10-20 years too.
Everything you said is why I don’t take SNW seriously. It act like it’s in another parallel universe, certainly not the prime universe.
And they want to make more TOS just to ruin it even more? Please.
I don’t even want a SNW spin off because they would still try to use other TOS characters and make them as cartoons as both SNW and the reboot movies did
I prefer to avoid all of that. But if others enjoy it more power to them. But when I want to see more TOS, I just watch TOS.
That’s all I need.
I’m still trying to figure out for the life of me how Kirk, Spock, Uhura and now apparently Scotty seem so lost on who the Gorn were and why they attacked the colony in Arena when they been dealing with these freaks for at least five years according SNW?
I’m not as upset that they used them and I understand why but I was hoping they tried to do with a little more nuance to tie it in better with Arena, but all that has flown out the door after season 2.
It’s just more proof that writers of these shows don’t really have the disicipline to write a true prequel because there is just too much canon they apparently can’t avoid and you have so many head scratching things that just makes no sense on is head.
As for doing another TOS show, if they make I’ll watch it and probably a lot lol. But yeah, just do something new. And no one is begging for it either so that should tell them something. I think most fans just want to go forward. And they seem to acknowledge that now that we have four, and soon to be five post Nemesis sows.
And we still don’t know where the S31 show will land yet.
Absolutely nothing makes sense about the Gorn, nothing. They should’ve avoided them completely. That such a pivotal moment in Arena and one of my favorite episodes. Now they ruined it with all the nonsense they added in the show over them.
If they made another TOS show I just wouldn’t watch it. I never watched any of those cartoon Abrams movies in theaters either. They took great characters and made them one dimensional action heroes with no depth and did the same tired formula of fighting comic book villains in every movie.
The movies felt more like a theme park ride instead of any thoughtful approach to the stories. People try to argue with me Beyond was better but that was still cliche and focused on silly action every ten minutes and the villain sucked.
I would hate to see what they would do with a series. No thank you.
thanks for the feedback. Curious about that 0.8%
LOL, nothing seriously obviously. You are usually more positive on some of your reviews than Laurie is on both DIS and SNW. I usually side more with her on some of them the few times you guys slightly disagree, especially on Laurie problems with SNW’s weird canon (which you can see on this page still bothers me ;)). Me and her are in full agreement there.
Brent Spiner’s instant reaction to Tony getting cursed out by Marina Sirtis shows that it is not uncommon for those that know her. Brent assured Tony that it is kind of a rite of passage. I am sure it was very unnerving, though!
Great podcast episode. I love that TNG cast.