‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Fan Theory Analysis: Who Is Lt. Ash Tyler?

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WARNING: Although this article is complete fan speculation, it should be treated as spoilers in case any of it turns out to be true.

We wouldn’t be Trekkies if we didn’t pore over absolutely every detail that the newest installment of the franchise has to offer. And with that level of nitpicking comes a lot of theorizing about what may or may not be foreshadowing for events revealed later in the season. Last week we took a critical view on the popular theory that the USS Discovery is a Section 31 ship. This week we take on a theory gaining steam after the debut of Lt. Ash Tyler in last week’s episode, “Choose Your Pain.”

The theory: Lt. Ash Tyler is Klingon Voq

At the recent PaleyFest New York panel executive producer Aaron Harberts made a cryptic remark that the scene introducing Lt. Ash Tyler was “one to watch very carefully, because this is an episode that sows seeds for the rest of the season.” It appears a number of fans have done just that, and have already concluded what those seeds are.

The theory goes that Voq (seen in episodes 1, 2 and 4), the Klingon torchbearer and heir to T’Kuvma, has been altered in some way (surgically and/or genetically) to replace Starfleet officer Lt. Ash Tyler (seen in episode 5). The assumption is that T’Kuvma’s former commander L’Rell made the transformation possible, and planted Voq/Tyler in the same cell as Captain Lorca on her prison ship so he can gain Lorca’s confidence. They were then allowed to escape together so Tyler could join the crew of the USS Discovery as a Klingon spy in order to unlock its secrets. The theory also assumes that actor Shazad Latif, who is credited for playing Ash Tyler, also played Voq.

Tyler and Lorca share a prison cell aboard a Klingon ship.

Background: Could the Klingons pull off a Klingon/Human switcheroo?

The answer to this one is a solid “yes.” About a decade after Discovery, in The Original Series episode “The Trouble With Tribbles,” a very convincing human in the form of one Arne Darvin was exposed as a Klingon agent who had been altered. The only way that Kirk and crew discovered Darvin’s true identity was thanks to the one species who can’t be fooled — Tribbles always know when a Klingon is near.

Arne Darvin could fool humans, but no Klingon can fool a tribble

In-Universe Evidence

Based on what we’ve seen on screen, there are hints that Lt. Ash Tyler is not who he seems to be. But could he be the Klingon named Voq?

Exhibit A: L’Rell comes from a house of spies

The key to the theory is Klingon commander L’Rell, who is believed to have orchestrated the switch. It is important to note that L’Rell comes from two houses. Her father was from House T’Kuvma, but her mother comes from House Mo’Kai, who L’Rell explains (in episodes 4 and 5) is a “watcher clan” of spies who are experts in deception, led by matriarchs. So creating a genetically engineered infiltrator sounds right up their alley.

L’Rell tells Voq about her family of spies

Exhibit B: Voq disappears after being told he must sacrifice ‘everything’

At the end of episode 4, L’Rell shows off her deception capabilities by lying to Kol and pretending to back him, and saving Voq’s life only to sneak off later and join him in exile on the abandoned USS Shenzhou. She then explains to Voq that she has a plan to win the war with Voq playing a key role. Here is the key exchange:

L’Rell: “You must win this war.”

Voq: “You speak as if you have a way.”

L’Rell: “I do. I’ve stolen a raider and will take you to the home of the Mo’Kai. I will leave you with the matriarchs who will expose you to things you never knew possible. But it comes at a cost.”

Voq: “What must I sacrifice?”

L’Rell: “Everything.”

L’Rell asks Voq to make the ultimate sacrifice, to give up “everything.” What does that mean to someone like Voq? As the heir and true believer in T’Kuvma, Voq’s purpose in life as torchbearer is “tlhIngan maH taHjaj”… or “to remain Klingon.” To Voq, giving up “everything” means giving up being a Klingon by becoming human. And even though Voq and L’Rell were seen together in episodes 1, 2, and 4, Voq is nowhere to be found in episode 5, the same episode that introduces Tyler, conveniently located on L’Rell’s ship.

L’Rell asks Voq to sacrifice “everything”

Exhibit C: Tyler’s timeline story doesn’t add up

When Ash Tyler meets Captain Lorca in episode 5 he explains that he has been on the Klingon prison ship since the Battle of the Binaries from episode 2. Lorca is immediately suspicious that anyone could survive seven months of Klingon torture. Tyler explains that the Klingon captain, who we know is L’Rell, has taken a liking to him. Tyler implies that he has been repeatedly raped by L’Rell who for some reason decided she likes to keep him around as her toy.

Lorca and Tyler talk about how he has been imprisoned with L’Rell since the Battle of Binary Stars

However, we know this is not possible. In episode 4, “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not For The Lamb’s Cry” we learn that L’Rell and Voq have been stranded on the Sarcophagus ship for the six months following the Battle of the Binary Stars. This means there is no way that Tyler was being held by L’Rell during that same period. So, either Lt. Tyler is outright lying about the past seven months, or he truly believes what he says. Either way, it is not the truth.

Voq (who was with L’Rell) prays to T’Kuvma for deliverance after 6 months of starvation onboard the Sarcophagus ship since The Battle of the Binary Stars.

Real World Evidence

Beyond what we have seen on the show, there is additional evidence related to actual releases, promotions and other issues around the actor playing Tyler.

Exhibit D: Latif was announced as Klingon, then changed to human, while Voq’s actor was  never revealed

Originally, CBS announced in December 2016 that Shazad Latif would play a “commanding officer of the Klingons and protégé of T’Kuvma” which perfectly describes Voq;  however, at that time the announcement said Latif’s character name would be Kol. Later, in April 2017, Latif was re-announced as human character Ash Tyler. Kol then became the name of Kenneth Mitchell’s character, who is a member of the house of Kor, who sees no value in T’Kuvma or his house. At this point there was no mention of a character named Voq, but during the Television Critics Association press event in August CBS released a number of character posters including one for a mysterious new member of the house of T’Kuvma named Voq. Even more mysterious, at this point Voq was the only announced character that did not have an associated actor.

The character Voq was announced, but not the actor portraying him.

Exhibit E: Latif was in Toronto long before episodes with Tyler were in production

As noted before, Lt. Tyler was first seen in episode 5. However, Shazad Latif was in Toronto, where the show is produced, much earlier. The actor was seen in an Instagram photo with other cast members in March, before he was even announced as Ash Tyler. At that time episode 2 was being filmed and episode 3 was being prepped. Voq appears in episode 2 and 4. Episode 5 (the first with Tyler) was not filmed until over a month after the below photo was taken.

Discovery cast celebrate James Frain’s birthday (photo: Instagram/Chris Obi)

Exhibit F: Actor credited for Voq doesn’t appear to exist or is alias for Latif

Even though Voq was a significant character in three episodes (so far) of Discovery, there was never an announcement of any actor playing the part. So, the first time a name was associated with Voq was in the credits for episode 1, released on September 24th. However, the actor credited (“Javid Iqbal”)  appears to be non-existent. There are real people with a similar name, spelled “Javed”, but of course the spelling is different, and none we can find are actors. An IMDb page for Javid Iqbal was very recently created, however he only has the single credit for Discovery and there are no actual photos of the actor not in Klingon make-up. Even more telling is the fact that Shazad Latif’s birth name is Shazad Khaliq Iqbal.

Javid Iqbal’s IMDb page was created as we were researching this article. The actor has only one role listed: Voq.

Final Analysis: Likely

The in-universe clues are enough to make anyone paying close enough attention very suspicious of Lt. Ash Tyler. It is possible that Tyler is genuinely human, but has been turned by the Klingons, which would account for his story not adding up.

However, the show went out of its way to set up the relationship between Voq and L’Rell. She then sends him off to her spymaster matriarchs at the end of episode 4 with Tyler showing up on her ship in episode 5. It all fits with L’Rell’s plan to get her and Voq back into a position of power within the Klingon empire, and it seems likely that her House Mo’Kai would have the resources to pull off the Arne Darvin-type of switcheroo.

Some doubt may also creep in based on how Voq didn’t exactly seem like the James Bond type and was mostly just a religious fanatic. In addition, Tyler’s anger and frantic attack on L’Rell in episode 5 seemed genuine, making it hard to believe that “Lt. Tyler” is a cover identity by the suddenly adept super-spy double-agent Voq. However, that would assume that Tyler is just an act. There may be another explanation for that (see below).

It becomes much harder to refute the Tyler/Voq fan theory when you take a look at the real world evidence, including official CBS announcements and placing together Shazad Latif’s whereabouts during the course of filming season one. In addition, the seemingly fake actor “Javid Iqbal” sharing a last name with Shazad Latif (neé Iqbal) is an obvious clue.

Bottom Line: The Voq = Tyler theory looks like the real deal

All in all, the on-screen evidence is enough to put this theory well into the plausible category. The real world evidence puts it over the top to make it almost undeniable.

Now that “Lt. Tyler” is on board the USS Discovery, it may be best to keep your eye on him

Lingering questions

Assuming the theory to be true, there are a couple of open questions still to be answered.

1. Does Tyler know he is Voq?

As noted above, the one area of doubt is that Voq doesn’t seem like he could pull off the whole spy thing and Tyler really did seem to have it in for L’Rell. However, one thing could explain both: Tyler doesn’t know he is Voq. He has been completely brainwashed and possibly had his memory erased with new programming and memory installed along with his genetic alterations to look human. So, he believes he is Tyler. He may have pre-programmed triggers like those in The Manchurian Candidate.

Assuming the Voq/Tyler theory is true, it is probable that this is the way they will go. It would allow for Tyler to develop real relationships and creates potentially more interesting dramatic possibilities when it is later revealed he is a secret Klingon agent planted on the Discovery by L’Rell.

There is some Star Trek precedent for this kind of thing. In the Deep Space Nine episode “A Simple Investigation” Odo falls in love with a woman working for the Orion syndicate named Arissa, but it turns out that was just a cover identity for an alien intelligence operative who had her appearance and memory altered to infiltrate the criminal organization.

Arissa (R) had no idea she was an alien intelligence agent

2. Is real Tyler alive?

Of course if Voq has been transformed into Tyler it begs the question, where is the real Tyler? Unless we assume the Klingons were able to hack into Starfleet and create records for Tyler, he really was at the Battle of the Binary Stars. So, was he captured or killed?

Having him still be alive creates more opportunities for the show as it would allow for Latif to play another role (the real Tyler), which may be useful after Voq/Tyler is exposed.

Again, there is precedent for this and again it comes from Deep Space Nine. During the Dominion War there were a number of examples of the shapeshifter Founders infiltrating Starfleet and the Klingon empire posing as real people. In the episode “In Purgatory’s Shadow,” Worf and Garak discover a Dominion prison which included the real General Martok and Dr. Bashir, both of whom had been replaced by shapeshifters.

The real Dr. Bashir found in Dominion prison after being replaced by a shapeshifter

3. Will Lorca’s tribble out Voq/Tyler?

As we saw in Episode 3, when we first met Captain Lorca, he’s got a Tribble on his desk. Captain Kirk will find out that Tribbles don’t like Klingons in about 11 years, so Lorca probably doesn’t know this specifically. However, if the Tribble reacts violently to Tyler and no one else, it should still make Lorca suspicious of Tyler since Tribbles like pretty much everyone. Note that in the most recent episode “Choose Your Pain” when Saru was acting captain, the Tribble was no where to be seen (yet the bowl of fortune cookies was still there), so perhaps conveniently it’s no longer around to react to Voq/Tyler?

That tribble on Lorca’s desk may come in handy.

Unlike the Ripper the tardigrade storyline, these questions may not be answered for a while.  Going back to what executive producer Harberts said about how Tyler’s introduction “sows seeds for the rest of the season,” we may not even find out the truth until January or February of next year.

Until then, stay tuned for TrekMovie.com for all your Discovery news, analysis and reviews.


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Ugh, they’re trying to do that ‘mystery box’ thing again, aren’t they? Look, just be up front with people. We know it’s Khan. ;-)

Following a Klingon spy as he, uh, ‘discovers’ Federation culture could be an interesting angle. Remember when Troi was an undercover Romulan? That was a good episode. Do a spin on that.

Or, hey, how about watching it before trashing it?

Wasn’t trashing it. Just offering an opinion on how they could proceed. You going to be okay?

Yeah right

Of course I’m going to be OK. I never wasn’t.

Well, in all fairness the ‘ugh’ and following sentence seemed to be trashing it, but then the next sentence seemed to be open to it turning out okay. Kind of a mixed message there. :-)

Sounds like they did watch it. They’re just saying we’re headed into a prolonged mystery that the audience has figured out well in advance, yet will be denied up and down until the last minute, just like “Into Darkness”. (‘Oooh, we got you guys!’ ‘No. No you did not.’)

Who are “they?” The poster is one person.

Don’t be dense. The English language has evolved to use they as a gender neutral pronoun. The superposition of possibilities provides the “more than one” you are insisting on.

I think the difference is that Khan’s “mystery” was the only thing STiD had to sell, but with Discovery there’s so much more going on.

The only mystery for me was how an actor as white as Benedict Cumberbatch would be playing a Sikh. I understand that there are no well-known Sikh or Indian actors to cast in a major motion picture, but still.

At this point I don’t see that the producers have publicly denied anything (and this theory is indeed the case, I doubt they’ll be asked about it on “After Trek,” just so they don’t have to lie).

Are you for real? It’s a dramatic tv show. It has mystery. It’s not remotely like Khan where everyone involved lied and lied and lied. And worse, their lies didn’t preserve a dramatic moment. It only cost the marketing people their best hook.

Clearly if this is true the producers are having some fun with planted clues. They want the fans to dig around and find out.

By the second episode of Westworld, the producers confirmed that the whole mystery had been accurately guessed by fans online. It’s part of the fun.

A swerve is giving you something you didnt expect but only truly works if the clues were there.

Well I wouldn’t say they haven’t lied. I would say we don’t know yet whether or not they have lied. Tyler was marketed as someone suffering from PTSD due to him having been a POW. Shazad Latif even gave recent interviews where has said his character hates Klignons. He also added that he doesn’t question the war.

There is a big difference between lying and protecting the secrets of your show.

I don’t see it as lying just because they don’t want to spoil a major plot point.

U could make the same argument about the Khan reveal. Is it a bad lie or a justifiable lie? The answer depends on the viewer. Until we know who Tyler is conclusively I will reserve my judgment on that particular point.

Voq had to give up everything so even his memories. He is most likely a sleeper agent with no memory of Voq and is being used by the Klingons to collect intel convinced he is actually Tyler. This is like Total Recall.

what good is he as a spy if he doesn’t know who he is?

to avoid detection and to collect intel for klingons by means of download after

Spies who don’t know who they are can do a lot of damage when triggered to do so. Just ask Adama.

No, not sending out a detailed synopsis of your spoilers is not a lie. GoT’s didnt come out and say we’d never see Jon Snow again. The mystery is meant to be fun.

Bad Robot LIED about Khan. To the extent Bob Orci even patted himself on the back for “never lying” (directly) about it. The only chance they had to make the Khan lie worthwhile was to have the lying be worth it which it wasnt.

Has anyone asked anyone associated with Discovery is Ash is Voq? If not, no lie. If so and they hedged, deflected, or smiled, not a lie.

Anyway, great summation by Kayla.

If Ash is a sleeper agent who doesnt know he’s Voq, the description still rings true. If he does know he’s Voq but the real Ash Tyler is still out there as a POW, its still true.

One of the problems I struggle with in regards to this POTENTIAL storyline concerns the concept of representation matters. We know that people love seeing people who are like them in Star Trek. There are articles praising the gender, racial and even sexual orientation diversity in this show. Rightfully so. These articles are written in part because we know the facts about the characters to be true. In the marketing for this show they said he was POW suffering from PTSD. They also said in the most recent episode that Tyler was raped. If he is Voq then he wasn’t raped. He most likely had a consensual sexual relationship with L’Rell based on the previously seen flirt scenes. Hence the reason why we aren’t seeing articles talking about him representing male rape victims. A first for Star Trek. Most people appear not to believe that the acts occurred. So I would submit to people out there that the potential impact of the character they marketed has already been diminished. Most people instead choose to write articles praising the potential coolness of the fake-out instead. Now as for the sleeper agent aspect of it…if I understand the concept correctly then I would assume it includes the implanting of false memories. Could some or all of these things include rape? Does it lessen the impact of the accusation if it’s false? Of course it does. I once again submit the idea that the rape storyline already has shown to have had little to no impact on people. Why? Because regardless of how u slice Voq or Tyler if we don’t know what’s real we can’t truly discuss it’s impact. Also at what point does secrecy regarding plot points vs representation of your viewers become unacceptable? I suppose that is up to the viewers themselves.

No, they have the right to write the story they want. Just because they introduce a character pretending to be a POW isnt somehow doing real POW’s a dis-service. They arent doing real first officer’s a dis-service by making Michael a disgrace.

I as well as everyone else is well aware of the writers/producers/creators right to do the show they want, I am not sure where anyone said they weren’t. Also not sure who said that they had done a disservice to POWs or anyone else. Only that it would be nice for people to have someone to relate to. How many people became doctors because of bones? Quite a few. Other Star Trek characters have inspired people to become scientist. There are many other examples of characters inspiring people to do a lot of things. Maybe if the storyline is done properly people will want to talk openly about being suffering from PTSD or other issues associated with the character in question. Maybe seek help for their problems. We shouldn’t ignore the fact that the franchise has had real world impact just because it’s a story.

I think it is early to say that the potential rape storyline has little to no impact. It was obliquely referenced to in the last episode (4 days ago). We haven’t even had an episode since, and no chance to cover Tyler’s hatred for Klingons, his PTDS, his torture, and his rape. People were complaining about treating the tardigrade badly, and yet Discovery addressed it and resolved it in the next episode. You have to give it at least 1 episode in this serialized format.

I am hoping they resolve it well but there is a possibility that they won’t.

All of that may or may not be true, Steph, but it has nothing to do with the question over whether the producers of Discovery have lied.

I love a good mystery. But if they’re going to drag it out when nearly everyone has it already figured out it will lack the impact they’re aiming for. The DA DA DUM moment won’t be DA DA DUM enough, just a big sigh. “My name is KHAN.”

So there are other ways to use this character in this undercover situation. That’s all I was saying. I prefer storytelling over marketing gimmicks.

Not really. There was very little to the question of the identity of the villain in INTO DARKNESS that really justified the buildup, especially as that film’s Khan had almost nothing to do with the character we remembered. Voq, whether you like him or not, is a character unique to Discovery, and the Klingon arc he’s part of is integral to the show’s storyline. It’s not an equivalent situation at all.

That said, I agree it’s great marketing. They’ve got everyone talking about this; it’s like the 2017 equivalent of “Paul is dead.” (Yes, I’m indeed old enough to remember that.) And it may actually be a lot of fun to view the actor and the performance through the lens of not knowing who he actually might be, whichever way it actually pans out.

So you’re saying every episode of Murder She Wrote should have started by telling us who the killer was?

It sure worked for COLUMBO – I think in all the years that was on, they only once ever made the killer’s ID a secret.

That gimmick worked great for COLUMBO, but then that was pretty much just a one-joke show. Falk, the writers and guest stars were just so damned good at re-telling the joke that we never got tired of it.

I’m a sucker for the McGoohan eps, there are some not so subtle nods at THE PRISONER.

Man, I love me some Columbo.

“Murder She Wrote” didn’t have interviews where the producers said “June Lockhart is definitely not playing the killer in this episode!” when she in fact was playing the killer.

Within the realm of viral marketing, fan speculation is a mighty tool.

Of course. For good or evil. It blew up in STiD’s face. Better to just tell a good story first, then promote it as effectively and honestly as you can, and hope for the best.

No, the tribble is Khan.


No… *I* am… KHAN!

I personally think that would be awesome. Fits into TOS Klingons, Trouble with tribbles had a Klingon spy. FASA had the Klingons creating human Klingon hybrids in preparation for ruling the UFP. Have Voq take over the Discovery and try to use it against the Federation.

It would also tie in nicely to the augment program on Enterprise. I don’t LOVE the Voq theory but yes it could work.

Glad to see another FASA fan out there!

I’d actually be tickled pink to learn that the Klingons pulled the “hybrid solution” to better fight the enemy, per FASA. Since this is a third timeline, might as well pull out all the stops.

For the record, Lorca and Saru keep me glued to the screen. That, and honestly, I actually WANT to see more Harcourt Fenton Mudd. :)

Delicious, cant wait to see if this is true. Would Saru be able to sense the coming of death from Voq/Tyler?

Good point! You would think he could. Maybe he is the new Tribble! Then again he senses trouble from Burnham and she isn’t spy. Not that we know of.

The only way to avoid Saru detection is if Tyler is a sleeper agent and is convinced he is Tyler but is really Voq.

Ugh, I wish I hadn’t read this.


the cross pic of Voq/Tyler fits from lips to chin to eyes to nose. 95% chance probable that Voq is Tyler. The games a foot, if you eliminate…

For a minute, with the lighting, I thought the split face was suggesting a remake of Let That Be Your Last Battlefield!

Yes and this alone is already a big spoiler by the way. I mean I knew this theory before, but others are likely getting spoiled by only seeing the pic on the main site before even clicking on the article.

Yikes, did this have to be a top headline, Trekmovie? I was dodging this theory on avclub and it’s just straight up here. Ah well, maybe that guy’s scenes will get more interesting now.

dramtic irony, the audience knows before the characters on discovery, nicely done

Sometimes that works better, creating suspense for when the characters ‘catch up’ with the audience. Kubrick did that in LOLITA right at the start of the movie, then flashed back years and let the story play out.

In this case, I’m wondering if they are being a little too transparent about it, which suggests a bigger better reversal is in the works. If so, then kudos I guess, but puzzle box stuff ain’t my thing unless David Lynch is making it.

Sure, that tactic is fairly common on prestige TV nowadays. We know where Jimmy McGill ends up on BREAKING BAD, and even a little of what happens to him post-BREAKING BAD. What’s interesting in watching BETTER CALL SAUL is finding out how he got there.

As to DSC, I have no idea if this whole Ash-Who-Is-Not-Ash theory is correct at all, though that’s where I’d put my money based on what we know right now. Who knows–maybe there’s a double fake-out in store, or the character turns out to be exactly who he appears to be. Maybe this whole discussion is the result of the producers inartfully covering their tracks. (It’ll be interesting to hear their take once the season is over.). But people are talking, and in that respect CBS has to be pretty pleased.

Welcome to the world of Game of Thrones fans! 😉

I kinda’ wish I hadn’t read this, but this is very cool! Love this.

there is a chance that Tyler is you make a Great Argument on that part but it may Backfire on the Kilngons and here is why Vog is seeking redemption and acceptances from his fellow Klingons. With the compassion of Humans it may want him to change sides Also Tyler may be just say who he is and telling the Truth Klingon Women that find men who are attractive tend to play favorites to them dose not matter if ts an Enemy or a ally

How exactly does the augment virus work? I have read memory alpha but I still have questions. Wouldn’t the person still have some Klignon DNA? You would think Phlox would have realized the potential intelligence usages for this virus and would have figured out a way for the Federation to figure out the differences between the two. Also what about someone’s internal organs? I don’t know. I never really liked the explanation in the first place. Then again I have always had problems with the idea that a human just magically became an alien storyline. In small doses, like in “Face of the Enemy” I could ignore the problems but over the long term I am not sure how it plays out. I mostly accepted it because it was a great episode for Troi and she got so few of those.

If the House of Mo’Kai uses the old human augment technology to disguise its agents, this might be a neat way of addressing the problem of the Klingons’ looks, at least partially. ENT’s “Affliction”/”Divergence” implied (through its blatant foreshadowing) that Klingons were flatheads for over a hundred years from then on until TOS, and I think we’ve mostly been taking that for granted, but we never saw a follow-up. Maybe the Klingons took care of the original problem relatively quickly. Maybe they even somehow overcompensated in the restoration of the original Klingon DNA in a way that contributed to the peculiar looks of the DIS Klingons. But then (within the timeframe of DIS or later), the House of Mo’Kai goes crazy with its research of the augment virus and reopens the Pandora’s box, exposing the population to a nastier strain of the virus. This would explain why Klingons are ridgy in DIS and in the Kelvin timeline (where this event doesn’t happen), but flatheaded in TOS. It would also make it more plausible why the flathead look came as a suprise to the DS9 crew. It’s easier to forget this if Klingons looked like that for a decade, rather than a century.

I know they get flat-headed but what about their internal organs? I ask because of medical scans. When he came back on the ship they should have checked for these things. I would also imagine some of the Klignon DNA is still there.

I think we’re kind of getting into the area of artistic license :) Realistically, if a civilization had the technology necessary to disguise a member of one species as a member of another, totally unrelated one (barring ridiculous ideas like those from TNG’s “The Chase”), it would imply many other capabilities we don’t really see on Star Trek, like regrowing lost limbs (see Nog), or just regenerating eyes easily (Lorca, Geordi, Martok). Not to mention all sorts of transhumanist (transhumanoidist?) ideas.

Regular contributor Ahmed came up with a chilling theory a couple of days ago: the Klingons used their Mind Sifter to probe P.O.W. Ash Tyler’s brain so that Voq/Tyler could convincingly pass as the lieutenant. Ahmed hypothesized that L’Rell imprinted the real Tyler’s stolen memory engrams onto Voq/Tyler.

We know from canonical evidence that the Klingons have a Mind Sifter, that they can create spies who can (at least outwardly) pass for human, and as Kayla pointed out we’ve seen other species imprint memories and personalities on their secret agent. It all fits.

It also, unfortunately for the real Lt. Ash, most likely means he’s dead or hopelessly brain-sifted.

I read years ago in the Dulce underground secret alien us base that reptilian aliens had the technology to seperate souls from bodies and plant a alien life force soul into a human. I think those stories ended up on some hollywood producers desk for the sci fi show V, or something anyone recall?

found it; V” stands for “Victory.” This is the emblem/sign that gets spray-painted over posters of the alien race that have come to Earth and is used as a sign of rebellion for those who stand against the aliens. Reptilian in form, the aliens disguise themselves as humans in order to put them off their guard. They claim that they are in need of a chemical substance on their planet and ask for our help to produce it. In return, they offer to teach us about their advancements in science and technology. Little to the humans’ knowledge, the reptilians are in fact stealing our water and cryogenically freezing humans to transport back to their planet as food. The series centers on the efforts of a journalist named Michael Donovan and a group of rebel fighters, who try to save the planet by fighting against the aliens.
First episode date: October 26, 1984

Ha, I used to watch it when I was a kid. They wear necklaces that can make your voice sound slightly different to pass as one of them :)

Yes, I have memories of this show as a kid and remember folks eating white mice with red eyes.

That first V miniseries was one of the best guilty pleasures of the 1980s; I actually wore out the VHS I had of it, because i played a 15min stretch of the climax (with awesome dramatic underscore) over & over again for years. Ken Johnson was writer/director, well before ALIEN NATION and not long after THE HULK series, but he got forced out of the followup.

Man, the science is just horrendously bad in V (and that ‘FINAL BATTLE’ sequel miniseries is even worse in this regard, and with respect to crediblity as well), but it pushed all the right emotional buttons, plus there was some very solid effects work in it too.

I don’t know if it is a sign that I’ve always been a sentimental fool, but even now, if I put in the DVD of it and go to the point where a tortured smuggler of illegals tells the lead about the lizards, “My grandfather fought … fought with Zapata. I spit in their faces” that I’m going to tear up, every time. Ditto for when Faye Grant, who is nearly as coolly logical as Spock for much of the series, responds to a challenge that suggests certain and sudden death not by fleeing, but by drawing a .45 she has steadfastly refused to use and start plinking at an alien vessel she has no possibility of shooting down … total emotional engagement. (then again I’ve also teared up at one point in a Tom Clancy novel, and cry anytime I watch MAGNIFICENT SEVEN and Charles Bronson gets killed. And when Connery dies in THE UNTOUCHABLES, forget it, I’m a mess like the way most of you were in ET and FIELD OF DREAMS.)

Back on topic, there was a regular series that followed the 2nd miniseries, but it was terrible and awfully frustrating; they were killing regulars off practically every episode and this was the show where the actors were so tired, that Faye Grant (former wife of Stephen Collins, how’s that for finding some ‘trek’ connection?) and Michael Ironside once played a whole scene calling each other Faye and Michael instead of Julia and Ham — and nobody noticed during shooting. The budget was so tight on the show that the scripts were printed ON BOTH SIDES of the page to cut down on the paper count (actually saw some of these that a friend bought at a convention!)

Saw a few minutes of the reboot V from 10 years or so back, and couldn’t get into it at all.

Can never see the ‘beef – it’s what’s for dinner!’ ads without thinking of V … didn’t remember this, but it turns out (according to wiki) that ad campaign started a year or so prior to V, so I guess the association DOES make a certain amount of sense. If there had been an internet back then, there probably would have been a meme of Diana opening her mouth wide to swallow a guinea pig with that meat industry motto beneath it.

And who did the music for V: The Final Battle? Yep, Dennis McCarthy, one of Rick Berman’s favourites.

The great music that riffed or ripped off B. Herman was by Joe Harnell on the first miniseries. I don’t recall McCarthy on the second one, I thought it was the guy who did the theme to SWAT and THE WARRIORS and EXORCIST III, Barry DeVorzon. Was McCarthy on the weekly series maybe?

Ahmed’s a contributor to Trekmovie?

Not all contributions are positive ones. ;-)

I think he meant poster and not contributer.

So in three weeks L’rell become captain of a ship, changed Voq to a human and taught him how to act like one as well. Or rather the House of Mo’Kai did. She was implied to be a rapist. I have heard of magical plot devices before but this one almost takes the cake. If it’s true. Pity if it is. They would have had the opportunity to legitimitly explore being a POW (and all of the other stuff they implied) and instead it could be a fake out. I get that maybe he couldn’t know who he really is but that would also ask us to believe that they can also steal peoples thoughts from them and then implant them in someone else. These magic plot points are potentially starting to get to be a bit much. I feel like Discovery is potentially trying to do too much. I am already having are hard enough time relating to these characters. Hard to know who to trust. On another note there is still the problem of who leaked information about Lorca’s shuttle route. Tyler didn’t do that at least. So there is another spy somewhere in the Federation.

lets see how everything unfolds

I am! I will still have opinions in the mean time. Not everything will always have to be positive. Discovery has problems and people have a right to say as much.

no show is perfect, yes it is important to share opinions and discuss what we like and dislike. You have valid points, so far I have enjoyed the new series and look forward to more each Sunday. Having a new Star Trek episode every Sunday is awesome. It holds off my craving for the 4th movie.

Hopefully the war arc is done after season 1 and USS Discovery gets to tackle non Klingon stuff.

Agree! This Klignon stuff is dragging on for me. I am still hoping for the best. Maybe it will all come out great but this drawn out storytelling has its drawbacks.

It was known from the beginning that the Klingons would be the main villains of the season.

“Drawn out.” Aw, bless. This series is moving like greased lightning compared to stuff like Sense8 and even some sections of Game of Thrones.

Im with you. People really make stupid comments without thinking. Drawn out storytelling. lol I guess some people miss the quality story telling ofr Voyager where half the ship could be in pieces but by the next episode its pristine. You dont need any critical thinking skills to enjoy a shallow show like that.

All shows have problems.
Discovery is better than a lot of the stuff out there.

That point depends on the viewers taste. To each his own. I still like some stuff other things make me go hmmmmm. I can accept small amounts of magic plot points after all where would Star Trek be without it. POTENTIALLY lots of magic plot stuff might be a no. Hard to tell.

Trekmovie.com says this article should be treated as a spoiler, yet shows the headline along with the dead giveaway image on the front page. That’s not cool.

I am not sure the picture is a dead giveaway. For example, Mary Chieffo looks nothing like I would think she would look like if I could guess based on all of that Klignon makeup. Maybe people are better guessers than me. I can see that.

Yep. The Voq is out of the bag. I wished they’d used a different photo, but alas.

Having Michael and Voq/Tyler fall in love would create great drama also

I agree. It will be interesting, if they go that route which I suspect, if Ash is a sleeper agent with no memories of being Voq or if he’s fully aware of his true identity. As Voq, he and Michael would have some similarities. It would be interesting to see Ash express that as his own life story but leaving out the Klingon part.

yes Voq lost his leader as did Burnham. I can see why the writers would want Voq on the Discovery as Tyler, great drama and story telling. My guess is Voq will turn to the good side in the end as a tragic character.

Man. As if that woman’s life weren’t complicated enough!

This may also explain why they gave the Klingons such heavy makeup and speak only in Klingon to each other so they are no way recognizable out of makeup.

I am not sure that would justify the radical changes they have made to them but you could be right. I personally always interpreted it as artistic licensing.

That would be quite interesting. Thanks for this, actually. This is the first time I haven’t been unhappy about the changes to the Klingons. It’s the first reason I’d actually buy from a dramatic story-telling point of view.

I doubt it. if they originally wanted to keep the lighter make up, they could use two different actors to portray the same character (Voq/Ash). In fact, using the same actor seems to be a decision designed to plant clues (and be true to the performance).

Wrote this in the shuttle pod reply also, but if Tyler turns out to be Voq in disguise, and Lorca’s escape from the Klingons was just a set-up, how could they possibly explain how Voq & L’Rell would be so sure that Lorca would not kill L’Rell? He nearly did, and it’s a little surprising he didn’t bother finishing her off, but I suppose he wanted her to suffer for the torture, but there’s no way they could predict Lorca would just shoot her in side of face, when he was vaporizing the others without hesitating. The escape really didn’t seem too difficult, and the prison cell seems to have been pretty conveniently close to the shuttle bay. Also, assuming Tyler was taken to sickbay after being rescued, wouldn’t the Discovery medics find out if he was Klingon instantly? I mean, McCoy had no difficulty identifying the true species of the spy in “Trouble With Tribbles”. A simple scan revealed him.

In the shuttle pod podcast comments section I also mentioned that easy prison escapes are nothing new in Star Trek. Magic Plot points ahead….. In two episodes of DS9 the magic priosn escape occurs. The Dominion left a runoabout floating above a Dominion internment camp. The characters were able to beam out of the camp. Then they used the runabout to get through Dominion space and back to Federation space. At some point during this journey they were able to contact DS9 to let them know Bashir’s doppelgänger was up to something. The DS9 crew managed to stop him from blowing up the Bajoran sun. When fans questioned the escape they writers admitted it wasn’t nothing more than a plot device. They did make a point to mention the suspicious nature of the escape in a later episode as a nod to the fans. As for the Lorca angle I am not sure that they could have accounted for him. Then again magic plot points always dictate the bad person stays alive even if people have enough opportunity to kill them. I will say though that Lorca never struck me as someone who trusts people easy so why he would take to Tyler is questionable. Not sure a guy like him would be satisfied solely by his answer. He would probably demand some sort of proof. I definitely agree about the body part. Even when using the Klignon augment virus would that take all of the Klignon away? I never thought it did.

What if the doctor is another spy?

Are we watching Star Trek or a spy series? Lol! Doing too many things can become a problem.

Yu’re trying really hard to be critical for no logical reason. You should not watch Westworld, you will be miserable.

I am not sure how your comments are supposed to be interpreted other than an attempt at rudeness. If that’s not it..fine but it’s really hard to tell. If it is rudeness …..You don’t like what I have to say don’t comment. I know how some people like to attempt to pick on people and some are ok with that kind of behavior. I am not. If you want to discuss things fine but don’t claim I am critical for no reason. I don’t currently watch Westworld but if I did that would be my choice. Thanks!

@Steph – you’re choosing to be critical over things either to be a complainer or without giving it any thought. If you’re going to make your opinion known in a seemingly poorly informed way, expect people to point that out.

I get testy when people gripe about spoilers — “don’t read the article, then” — but, that said, this photo is pretty darned spoilery.

I do think this is the case but I wonder if Lorca doesn’t already suspect this as well, at least him being a Klingon spy and will be watching him for potential to gain information in the other direction.

The only problem with that theory is how would Lorca know that he could catch him every time he slipped information to the enemy? Or that he could get information from him at all. He would be taking a huge risk. Potentially even losing the spore drive to the enemy. The Klignons would definitely use that thing to annihilate Earth and with it Federation headquarters. I agree there is a spy somewhere. Lorca getting captured proves that. The Klignons appeared to know his exact route. The questions he was asked during the interrogation also prove the Klignons know more than they should. Who though is the question. Tyler is very obvious. Maybe as some have suggested too obvious.

Didn’t Tyler also say something along the lines of ‘the Klingon commander has taken a liking to him’?

That could have been done as a cover in case anyone grew suspicious as to why POW Tyler was 1) still alive 2) spending time with L’Rell.

Im gonna go on the record, right now and guess that Saru is the Klingon spy. It would explain how Burnham becomes first officer, and why the tribble was missing when Saru was in Lorca’s ready room. He may have been captured in his escape pod from the Shenzu, and a faux Saru was planted. That’s my theory …for now…

That would be much more interesting.

If so, Ill reiterate that in creative story telling a satisfying “swerve” only works if, once revealed, the clues make sense. For example, watching the Sixth Sense and everyone kicking themselves at the end.

If the “swerve” is a swerve because nothing adds up, its not really a swerve.

Its also possible that there is another Klingon spy on the Discovery that would get rid of the Tribble but I dont think so. They wouldnt need undercover Voq if they already had an undercover person with access to the Captain’s ready room.

Maybe he’s upset at L’Rell for what she turned him into- maybe she wasn’t entirely truthful, or maybe he didn’t expect to feel what he did.

Was Tyler the Starfleet officer dragged off at the beginning, the one Mudd said was “out to lunch”? Either way, that would make it very interesting: If it was, it could imply he was exchanged at that moment; if not, it would explain why he was replaced openly.

Kirk & co. discover things about Tribbles, but some were known: Phlox, for example, knows that you shouldn’t feed them, even though McCoy discovers it independently. Perhaps none of it was considered important enough to make it into medical textbooks, or McCoy had to go hunting through century-old books to find it. On the other hand, it’s unlikely (but possible) that Tribbles would be discovered to be Klingon detectors in the 2250’s and no one would know about that a decade later. Certainly Lorca doesn’t realize that he should keep those fortune cookies far away.

You could take the “out to lunch” comment a lot of different ways. Mudd was being sarcastic or it was a nasty reference to how he was treated by L’Rell. We know he was spying for the Klignons. So what would he have known about that situation? Then again I have never trusted Mudd. He would say what ever he needed to say.

Fascinating. I find this theory credible and I am compelled to tune in next week to search for more clues.

Makes it even more fun to watch when you have a mystery to solve.

I absolutely agree with the theory. It makes perfect sense that this is indeed the truth about Ash.

But the plot doesn’t make sense. DIS Klingons are totally unlike humans, biologically and culturally. It’s nothing like a simple surgical procedure (look at those heads!) like it would have been at the time of TOS. And what happened to DNA analysis? Also, doesn’t the transporter notice the organs are all in the wrong places? But perhaps more notably, in the Discovery universe Klingons hardly even know humanity. It’s nothing like just learning a few things from a biography. And all this in only three weeks? Ridiculous.

The “mind ripper” hypothesis helps explain how a Klingon religious fanatic could pass plausibly for a human POW with only three weeks’ training: they’ve actually implanted the memories and personality of the real Ash Tyler into Voq.

The idea of planting someone’s memories in someone else’s brain is also pretty implausible. I know we have seen it before in Star Trek but at one point does it become ridiculous? I know….viewers’ choice. Just saying.

@Steph – there are many examples of planted memories in contemporary times. In fact there are a lot of cases of accused people claiming their accusers had implanted memories by psychiatrists to the extent the person truly believes they remember it.

Extrapolate that out 300 years and Im not going to roll my eyes if the rest of the story is good.

I kind of figured it may have been a reuse of the Augment virus from Enterprise to take away his Klingon traits in that prior to that explanation the thought was the more human Klingons were just spies this kind of incorporates both ideas.

I don’t think the show has established that Klingons hardly know humanity. Humanity hasn’t officially seen them in years, but that’s not the same thing. T’Kuvma apparently understood and spoke at least some English (presumably, although how the translator fits in is always confusing) and so did L’Rell.

Thanks for the spoiler alert — what the hell?

I would expect something more sophisticated than a simple undercover plot. I can see Tyler being Voq but I can also see him being brainwashed into thinking he’s Tyler until some trigger brings out Voq. That would explain the way he attacked L’Rell even though Lorca was nowhere in sight. Of course, the sleeper agent is also not very original as it has been done to death as well (Talia from Babylon 5 is another example). What would be a more interesting twist is if Tyler/Voq (assuming that’s what we have here) comes to realize that the Federation does not want to rob the Klingons of their identity and he then ends up being the one to help end the war. That would be truly ironic as T’Kumva’s chosen successor sees the folly of his mentor’s campaign.

Who is Ash Tyler Dureden?

*Durden* (my fingers can’t spell today).

Perhaps the tribble was gone because tribbles don’t like Kelpiens, either.

Or, the tribble kept setting off the threat ganglia.

It’s the same person. They telegraphed ahead half the season’s plot in that single “everything” line at the end of episode 4. Game of Thrones this most certainly ain’t!

Well the facts presented pretty much guarantee it or it’s an amazing job of trickery on the producers part. Facts against: so he learned English in a month and memorized Tyler’s back story and understands human emotion. Doctor didn’t notice when an obvious check up would’ve occurred. Lorca already questioned how long he was a prisoner. You don’t think he would do a quick check on Tyler’s history? How would Voq know Tyler’s history. How would Voq know the inner workings of the federation. Mudd insinuated that Tyler had been there as long as him because Mudd asked why he hadn’t worked with him on an escape before Lorca got there. SO if he is Voq….way too many holes to fill

Not if the mind sifter/implanted memories/Manchurian Candidate scenario is what they went with.

Yep, I agree with this theory. As soon as she said “everything” my threat ganglia went up my intuition went on hyperdrive.

But I wanna add another piece. Kohl is a member of the House of Kor and it was made clear that he knew Voq and perhaps rejected him before the Battle at the Binary Stars. Kor and his two friends 100 years later go after “The Albino” in DS9’s Blood Oath. I’m pretty sure this is the same character. It’s never confirmed in the episode that the Albino is Klingon, but I hear that in one of the novels he is. He looks a bit different from the Klingons of the day but, not so different given the physiological variety that’s been introduced by DSC. Perhaps he was branded “not-Klingon” for his actions during the war and resentment led to this kind of feud.

1. Voq = Ash Tyler = The Albino
2. The human augment virus will be introduced (again) to the Klingon empire.
3. The apparent differences between DSC Klingons and TNG/DS9/etc Klingons will probably ignored as creative license.

Agreed. That seems to be the plan. Whether we like it or not, they will explain everything in a way that it makes sense on a trivia level, but remains inconsistent on a large scale.

Let me clarify, I don’t think this is trivial. And would prefer they not retcon my #3 if they can’t do it well. ENT got really wonky in this way with the human augment gene. I thought it worked well enough, but it was never a great solution. I would have been fine if it had been left as it was in the real world, a aesthetic, design upgrade. I don’t mind them retconning things, but my fellow die hard Star trek fans often get way to focused on the trees when they ought to be looking at the forest.

If they make this into a great and interesting story while being respectful of canon and dealing with moral issues in a universe that remains hopeful (not perfect), then I will be pleased.

I stand by the firm principle of Star Trek that looks are canon and that the new Klingons are a huge issue (and a huge offense). Biographies, on the other hand, are a minor issue. Perhaps it makes sense in the mindset of the producers that Voq just has to be The Albino and that it corroborates the canon status of Discovery. But to me it is another example of a small universe where everyone knows everyone else and we meet all the same characters all the time. Star Trek has to move on instead of always throwing in casual canon connections (instead of really sticking to canon).

The retcon in Enterprise was fine because it fixed a previous error. I too don’t want them to explain the Discovery Klingons in a similar fashion because it is impossible. This major continuity buster ought to have been avoided in the first place.

@Bernd Schneider — and I say you have it completely backwards. Visual canon is the least important part of it, since it relies so heavily on the technology and budget at the time the movie/TV series was made. Biographies on the other hand are mostly written in stone. They tell us who the character is and what they did to get where we met them, and where they’re going. That’s why the Bad Robot films were so problematic, because we weren’t seeing the characters shaped by the experiences we knew from canon.

The retcon in ENT was an abomination of fan pandering that should have been ignored, to fix a fan pandering problem the DS9 writers were too stupid to realize they should have left alone. NONE OF IT WAS OK. And it’s best ignored today, because new audiences which this series hopes to attract aren’t going to care, and that kind of ridiculousness is only going to confuse them.

On the other hand, I hated the TNG Klingons, I detest episodes built around them to this day, which bore me to tears, and I ignore them if at all possible. On the other hand, I LOVE these Klingons. I love how alien they are, how much more evolved they are, and how much more interesting they are, and how they evoke the threatening nature of them as first introduced in TOS.

And that’s my opinion.

I’m all for sticking to established biographies. But they should be left alone, especially if they are included as mere fan service. We don’t need any new iterations of Sarek, Mudd, Kor or the Albino (not to mention the TOS crew). The universe is big, I want new characters and not always the same ones. I want true continuity and not gratuitous namedropping. I want a new Star Trek series to boldly go where no one has gone before, and not shoehorn its story into a time where it doesn’t fit.

Visual continuity was always an important staple of Star Trek. Old looks were carefully updated and not ignored such as it happens in Discovery, with new examples of ignorance and disrespect every week (“D7”!). If you deny the importance of visual continuity, you deny an important part of Star Trek’s identity.

I find it sad how the excitement about Discovery has caused a large part of the fandom to make a 180 degree turn, denying that the look matters (in a visual medium!), and decrying what has made Star Trek great in the 1960s and in the 1980s/90s respectively.

They didn’t show enough of the D7 for there to be outrage.

That would be pretty cool actually. In some of the way they’ve mentioned Enterprise I sort of think they wont use the Augment virus or tie everything together. But it would be pretty cool if they did.

Its possible Voq (if he is now Ash) ends up second guessing the war after his involvement with the Discovery crew. Kol is obviously set up as the Klingon antagonist so it would stand to reason Voq and Kol would end the season as adversaries if it played out that way.

They DID say many canon issues would be worked out. Possibly even the look of the Klingons?

In the next episode Stephen Toast makes an appearance

Who is Stephen Toast?

Nice echoes of Bene Gesserit / Bene Tleilax + the Sisters of Karn…

When hearing of House Mo’Kai, I was reminded of the Bene Gesserit as well.

Ummm…they use transporters right? Wouldn’t the person at the controls notice differences?

In TOS episode “Turnabout Intruder”, Dr. Janice Lester used a alien device to switch her mind into Kirk’s body and his mind into her body. The Lester-in-Kirk even passed a medical exam by McCoy. Perhaps L’Rell got a hold of this alien device before the TOS era, to switch the minds of Voq and Ash Tyler. Therefore the transporters wouldn’t be able to dectect if Ash was a Klingon.

I always used to wonder this myself since “The Trouble With Tribbles”. Granted that we never saw Arne Darvin use a transporter in the episode, but you’d think that serving as an aide to an important (if pompous) official like Nils Baris would involve some transporter time. Of course, you’d also think that Darvin would have undergone some kind of medical exam at some point, much more extensive than the quickie scan that McCoy ran which quickly identified Darvin as a Klingon through heartbeat, body temperature, and other fairly superficial measures.

Would the tribble react to Tyler/Voq if he thought he was human and behaved the same way around the tribble that every other human does?

Acording to The Trouble with Tribbles, yes. Thats how they knew Arne Darvin was Klingon.

Could have done a better job hiding this, they actually called attention to it with the shuffled casting announcements.


Exactly. They could have hired two actors, one to play the Klingon Voq and the other to play Tyler and no one would notice anything. Also reduce the amount of time Tyler was a POW from 7 months, which will draw suspicions from Lorca and others, to a month or less.

Let the audience invest in the new character and then slowly give them little clues about his real identity.

@Ahmed – you seem to be missing the clear fact that they chose not to. If the producers of Discovery brought peace to the world, you’d find a way to complain.

LMAO @TUP. Damn!

Yeah, I think the obvious reason for all the sloppy shuffling and the clear as crystal trail of bread crumbs, is that they decided to make Voq become Tyler sometime after casting. I think this was an off the wall “Hey, wouldn’t Voq going undercover as a Starfleet character be a real mind frak?” idea. When he was first cast, he was just going to be Voq. Possibly, Tyler didn’t even exist in their minds until this idea either.

Another possibility is that Voq is impersonating the real Tyler who was actually raped and Voq’s implanted memories reflect that.

Maybe but the real Ash definitely wasnt with L’Rell for 7 months. She wasnt there. The only other explanation is Ash was abducted by L’Rell and kept as a prisoner on Tkuvma’s ship (though you’d think the Klingons would kill and eat him).

Maybe. But I am not altogether sure that Voq ate Georgiou.
That seemed like a very convenient fact that
Popped out of nowhere.

Somehow it seems unfair to bring facts about the real-world production into in-Universe speculation. I know, the evidence is important and undeniable, it’s just not sporting. I suppose what bothers me is that this robs the creators’ of the show of their ability to create a puzzle for their audience — but then I suppose if someone values those sorts of puzzles, they can just ignore this sort of speculation.

We cant just “unknow” something. I also maintain that the creators intended this more as a puzzle for fans to guess at. Otherwise they could have chosen a name for the “fake” Voq actor that was not the same as the Ash actor. Or, they could have had two different actors in the role.

I dont think the producers are angry fans are speculating. They are hiding easter eggs for us to hunt.

Agreed, I think these real world clues were intentionally left here for fans to discover. Producers WANT this kind of speculation, they WANT this fan theory discussion, because that builds buzz. Look at all the articles online about this theory, at major entertainment outlets, not just Trek sites.

Hollywood loves this kind of thing these days: it was reported that when filming Westworld, producers went back and reshot some scenes from the premiere because they felt there weren’t enough clues and breadcrumbs for viewers to follow to figure out the various mysteries (I believe the reshoots involved changing the Westworld logo in some scenes, to indicate that they were flashbacks to eagle-eyed viewers).

The real surprise they could pull off is if Voq ISN’T Tyler, and they intentionally left misleading clues. Wouldn’t that be a mind-f*ck.

Yup. If not knowing was critical, they’d have cast a different actor to play Voq.


“I suppose what bothers me is that this robs the creators’ of the show of their ability to create a puzzle for their audience”

They did a lousy job hiding it with the whole fake actor thing.

They clearly werent trying to keep it a State Secret.

What good is a puzzle nobody solves?

I think the plot chronology got scrambled a bit with the transition away from the Bryan Fuller screenplays. Doesn’t it make more sense if Voq was stranded at the BotBS for only a few weeks rather than six months. It fixes the odd return of Kol after six (!) months. And it’s believable if there are months between the final Voq scene and first Ash scene (rather than the 3ish weeks presented).

I understand the desire to focus on the Discovery and put the Klingons on the backburner a bit. So it doesn’t really bother me too much.

Thats possible.

@Minnesota Bruin,

“I think the plot chronology got scrambled a bit with the transition away from the Bryan Fuller screenplays.”

Jason Isaacs did mention in an interview that when he received his first three scripts he was told that the third script, the Discovery & Lorca introduction episode, will be changed completely.

Would be nice to pick a different thumbnail to go with that headline…sheesh…

My theory is that this is a plow to engage fans in discussing how certain members of society will typically be more often assumed to be the enemy or the other. In the end, the crew will think Ash is a Klingon but he is actually a human but he will have to convince them and us the viewer of this truth.

You left out another important clue. While “Javid/Javed Iqbal” is actually a fairly common real-world name, its literal meaning is “eternal-fortunate.” As in “Live long and prosper”?

That is in no way a clue to anything. For one thing, the two terms do not mean the same thing. For another, neither Kol nor Ash is a Vulcan.

Right. If they’re going to go that deep with choosing a name, they should do something that means With Honor or something that sounds Klingon, ya know?

My guess? This will be Kurtzman’s back-door to Klingons looking like they did in TOS. Voq / Tyler learns more about their adversary because of whatever procedure made him human-ish, something-something-something, technobabble, BANG! Goateed 60s Klingons AND the classic ridge-head Klingons.

In short, this feels like a retcon of augment virus explanation presented in “Enterprise.”

They definitely are doing things that Enterprise touched on as one of the producers or writers had discussed canon in the writers room by saying theyd have an idea and then cant do it the way they intended because Enterprise did something… they indicated it was tougher to adhere to canon because of Enterprise than any of the other series’ or at least that was my take.

But we dont know if it was big canon or little canon.

That spoiler warning really leaps out at you. I didn’t notice the larger picture and headline immediately above it.

Sounds like BSG – Cylons in the Colonial Fleet that didn’t know they were Cylons.

Those of you complaining about spoilers are ridiculous. Only an idiot would visit a Star Trek website if he or she didn’t want to be spoiled about Star Trek.

Can i yell : “Hail Hydra? ” XD Grant ward 2.0 . Never trust the pretty ones :D

Also dosent add up that L’Rell would take a human boy toy. It possible but highly unlikely since she served T’Kuvma who is all about Klingon purity.

Lorca is the torchbearer. The actor that plays Ash Tyler also plays the torchbearer, but the torchbearer didnt become Ash Tyler, he became Lorca. Thats the twist. The real Lorca is either dead or still on the prison ship.

L’Rell took a liking to him…back when he was Voq.

Number one

Ash Tyler looks like a cheron
could he be a Cheron spy
that would be a good idea for the show

I Thin he’s a superhuman form Khan’s race.