Jason Isaacs And Shazad Latif Talk Fandom And Dealing With ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Critics

Den of Geek recently spoke to the main cast members of Star Trek: Discovery during the recent UK press tour, and released a new interview with Jason Isaacs and Shazad Latif. Here are some of the highlights.

Aaron Harberts, Jason Isaacs, Sonequa Martin-Green, and Shazad Latif (Photo: Getty)

When asked about the overwhelming amount of fan feedback thanks to social media, specifically more negative feedback, the two actors had tactful responses.

SL: When we make it I’m enjoying what we’re doing and the rest we don’t have any power over. It’s like a painting, if people don’t like it then they don’t like it. We can’t really do much about that.

Isaacs had his usual irreverent take on the situation:

JI: I thought it was just a sign of how unbelievably passionate and protective they were of this legacy, and before we were on the air they were reacting to a trailer or something. Micro-analysing every frame of it. Now that we’re on, I’m a bit disappointed that the dissent has died down. I liked when people were outraged by things, and mostly everyone’s loving it all over the world now. I seek out those people who are upset because they’re always more passionate, first in line to watch it and first to hit the internet afterwards. They’re probably more die hard fans that anybody else.

Every new series that came along was hated instinctually by everybody and slowly they were won over. I think we’ve won them over. Quickly, which is a bit of a shame.

Shazad Latif as Ash Tyler on Star Trek: Discovery

The actors were asked how they felt about the modern way we watch TV, with lots of analysis, fan theories, and spoilers. Specifically, they were asked why fans keep trying to figure out where the show is headed, rather than be surprised.

SL: I don’t know why you’d want to know so much before, I get that it’s because they love it.

JI: Well it’s a mystery that they’re trying to guess. The big thing for me, not the theories because one of the great things about this Star Trek particularly in our dark and troubled times, our credits run and the debate starts. The worst thing you can be is something where the credits run and people say “What shall we eat?” It actually affects people and they’re thinking about it. Although it’s on Netflix it’s not bingeable so there’s a week to talk about things like there is with Game Of Thrones. The thing that bothers me – networks have asked me to live tweet shows I’ve been in before, and I want people to watch the telly not look down at their phones or iPads. Watch it and talk about it afterwards.

Briefing room - Star Trek

The briefing room is a great place to discuss “must see” TV shows

Isaacs also spoke about getting some TV screen command officer training from director Jonathan Frakes, a former Starfleet Commander himself:

JI: Yeah getting hit by a torpedo and the ship rocking from side to side without looking like an idiot. One of the big things, weirdly, is what to do with your hands. Because there are no pockets in space and there are no props. Jonathan Frakes, who played Riker in TNG, came to set one episode and he had a top tip. He said “Are you having trouble with your hands?” and I said “Yes I am! How the fuck did you know that?” He said he did a lot of crossed arms acting, and gave me the tip never to start a scene with my hands on my hips – you won’t get them off.

Pro tip: arms crossed is the best stance for a tightly fitting uniform


Star Trek: Discovery is available on CBS All Access on in the US and airs in Canada on the Space Channel. It is available on Netflix outside the USA and Canada.

Keep up with all the Star Trek:Discovery news at TrekMovie.

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When might we have an interview with Javid Iqbal? Last seen riding a unicorn with Bigfoot. ;-)

LOL, I love Jason Isaacs

You can totally get why they cast him as Lorca, his always so flip. It’s really quite hilarious.

Though I am not into Facebook or Twitter it is somewhat difficult to comment directly to the show, actors, or directors, so in this medium I will say that I love the show and the darkness of the episodes. I grew up on S.T. original series, but I’m not stuck firmly on that format. Great acting and storyline. Thanks for Discovery.

I do think most of the show’s vocal detractors are of the “IT’S NOT TNG!” mindset.

And nor should it be. By 2005, that format has been driven into the ground by a creative team that had run out of ideas years before. If anything, the show is more along the lines of DS9 in its later years, which is often heralded as the apex of Star Trek. DISCO is not there yet, but it shows tremendous promise and there is no escaping the fact that this is the strongest first series of any Star Trek series since TOS. TNG, DS9 and VOY suffered with being mediocre at best and dreadful at worst.

totally agree. thank you.

“Micro-analysing every frame of it. Now that we’re on, I’m a bit disappointed that the dissent has died down.”

I try to do the breast…er…the best I can :-) Issacs is right. The very reason I still keep complaining about the TV-MA seconds of the show is because I’m very passionate about this universe. Compared to GOT and Westword, DISCO might be as tame as it gets, but I don’t want it to “compete” with contemporary MA shows. It needs to be compared to the first five Trek shows in with regards to them, DISCO has pushed a few boundaries in those very short instances of gore and now even sexualized nudity.

I started watching Star Trek at the age of 13, some friends started watching even earlier. The core question is: if I was 13 right now, would I be allowed to watch it? Would I ever be able to become a Trekkie?

I actually don’t know. My father would have never let me watch it back then, but then, he had been born in 1935 and had no experience with horror and hard action.
If I was 13 NOW, my father would be born 1965 or later. He would be a completely different person, with different experiences concerning on-screen graphic violence and nudity… so maybe, he’d be fine with DSC in this alternate timeline… And I wouldn’t be such a squeamish wimp when it comes to blood and boobs on Star Trek…

Squeamish about boobs?!

They were onscreen for maybe a second and it was in a horror scene. I doubt anyone found them titillating. I’m sure that 99 percent of 13 year old have googled far worse. Maybe it’s because I’m European and we’re more laid back with regards to sex.

Smike is actually European as well, he’s from Germany if I remember correctly.

“Squeamish about boobs?!”

Nope, squeamish about boobs ON STAR TREK. UAB is right, I’m German and German rating authorities have a more relaxed attitude towards nudity than to violence. Simple nudity is not a problem for 12+ ratings. But…

“They were onscreen for maybe a second and it was in a horror scene.”

That’s kind of even more troubling. Had they decided to show Michael’s boobs during a nude meditation or decontamination scene, the impact wouldn’t have been so “devastating”. But no, the first pair of boobs on Trek had to happen during a sexually loaded violent rape flashback that could be only a prelude for more of that sort of imagery on the upcoming episodes, seasons and even movies. This was NOT simply, aethetically pleasant nudity, it was sexual violence… artistically depicted, but still gross on a Star Trek show.

Get over it already. You’ve become the ultimate broken record.

Being American I get it. Its this country still has that puritan upbringing even if your not worshiping a God.The fact is a 13 old boy can look a woman in a paper sack and get sexual feelings.That’s natural.It shouldn’t be a big deal,yet it still is in this country.

Oh no Klingon boobies, quick hide ….. :))

My dad took a very hard line against sex in shows I could watch, but violence was no problem. It makes no sense and to me it never did. I loved seeing the sexy scenes in BSG, really made me appreciate puberty a lot more as I was 11 when the miniseries aired. Let’s be honest, most kids these days have this thing called the internet, and it’s in their pockets. If I could see boobs on demand on my desktop in 2003, these kids today have it even easier. So it’s not like it’s stuff they don’t already know about.

“I loved seeing the sexy scenes in BSG, really made me appreciate puberty a lot more as I was 11”

NuBSG had “sexy” stuff but no actual nudity. There’s a difference. I loved Six’ dresses A LOT and I’ve been rooting for sleeveless Starfleet uniforms for 25 years now :-) I loved the “less-is-more” alien ladies’ outfit on TOS. But none of this was nudity. Not even Hoshi’s breast covering or T’Pol’s naked back.

“Let’s be honest, most kids these days have this thing called the internet, and it’s in their pockets.”

That’s part of my quibbles. I’ve often tried to explain that. The fact they CAN watch hardcore smutt is troublesome on its own, and no, it’s not just boobs they can watch online, but it’s one thing secretly watchig those “online shorts” on a bad conscience and a totally different thing to watch nudity on a legit TV show that is part of a reputable, long-running billion dollar franchise that used to be fully family-friendly…

Actually BSG had full frontal nudity in the final straight to dvd movie but I don’t necessarily disagree with you. The shows great, it doesn’t need f bombs or fleeting moments of graphic violence or nudity. That being said maybe CBS have been quite clever here. Like you say these moments have been fleeting and I have no doubt that at some point down the line this show will air on TV and those versions could be easily edited into something more family friendly without really losing anything. In the meantime those brief moments of shock value get the show talked about and potentially bring in more subscribers.

Yeah, I wouldn’t say the sight of a pair of Klingon breasts in what was essentially a moment depicting the horrors of sexual assault for less than a second could be considered “sexualised nudity”. That suggests it was designed to titillate.

The sequence was designed to demonstrate the trauma that Ash went through. And in that respect, it worked.

Then call it sexual violence involving a short glimpse of topless alien nudity. Whatever you may call it, it has happened and is now a part of Star Trek’s legacy and that makes me feel sad.
Stuff like that happens on Game of Thrones or Westworld, which basically are their own thing. There I can – to some degree – appreciate it for what it is. On Star Trek? I feel totally uneasy about it. There’s a part of me that’s happy it has finally happened but another part tells me to feel bad about it. But it’s not just the two seconds of nudity. There had been quite a few instances of unnecessary graphic gore on DSC before that. Again, only a few seconds each episode, but why including it in the first place if it’s not an integral part of the show?

Smike, I’m interested to know how you feel about past examples of “gore” and horror in Trek- like Picard and Riker killing Remmick in ‘Conspiracy’, Tom Paris pulling out his own tongue in ‘Threshold’ and the horror themes present in ‘Empok Nor’.

Roddenberry was always pushing the envelope with the censors. For the episode ‘A Private Little War’, he had Nona filmed semi naked under a waterfall. He knew that showing boobs would mean the scene was cut. He put it in there so that the censors would let other stuff slide.

You quoted three instances of “gore” from three different Star Trek shows. There may be even more: the 8472-induced pile of Borg corpses, what’s left of the Regula One crew after Khan killing them and maybe some other instances I cannot recall right now. But you know, these are scenes from five different Trek shows with over 700 episodes and 13 movies, quite a lot of screen time for some occassional boundary CROSSING.

But DSC isn’t doing this occassionally, they have been PUSHING the franchise boundaries systematically in each and every episode since the pilot. The twisted Glenn crew, Landry’s injuries, the Klingon skull-cracking stomp, Klingons cutting the Admiral’s bodyguards’ throats, that gutted Klingon corps, some bloody torture scenes prior to the boobs display… That’s quite a lot for SEVEN episodes within a half season. Yeah, most of these scenes were “blink-and-you’ll-miss-it” sort of brief, but if they are so insignificant, why insert them at all?

I was told many years ago as far as entertainment (which tv shows are )If there is a rule,break it. Nothing moves forward if you don’t break rules.All the way back to TOS woman wore clothes that very revealing.HBO and others push that a bit more.So will Star Trek.Nothing wrong with that.

As for the most infamous scene of gore on Trek, the Remmick scene… I hadn’t even seen that one prior to TNG’s release on DVD because it used to be cut from the afternoon broadcasts in Germany. For sure, it is gross for an otherwise very utopian Trek show, but Roddenberry himself insisted that something like that would never be done on NextGen again.
And despite all his faults and failures, there is one thing I really appreciate about Berman: he more or less kept the franchise clean of such images.
But nowadays the pressure from successful TV-MA shows just seems too strong to resist those tendencies. Those elements have become everyday viewing habits for younger audiences. And while I like GoT or Westworld a lot, I also blame them for having lowered the moral standards of TV… now affecting even Star Trek.

Here we go.There is no pressure for a show to put that stuff in.That’s a choice.Your standards are high and that’s OK but if it bothers you so much ,don’t watch the show ,but don’t come here and push your agenda on others,go watch the brady bunch or something.

“Smike, I’m interested to know how you feel about past examples of “gore” and horror in Trek”

Yeah, all I can say is that it comes down to boundary crossing vs boundary pushing. Those instances of “gore” on the other shows didn’t per se alter what Star Trek was like. They felt so odd and full of intensity because they were completely different from what Star Trek was like back then.
But what they’re doing on DSC is rewriting the base code on which future Star Trek is based upon. By inserting tiny bits of “mature” imagery in almost every episode, they are testing the ground for even more of that to come. They want Star Trek to compete with shows like GoT or TWD, and by teasing these changes even for some seconds only, they want to find out how we fans react to those changes. If there isn’t much “resistance” within the hardcore fanbase, there will be more of it for the sake if contemporary mass appeal. Instead of 10 seconds per episode there could be minutes of it next season. And it doesn’t stop there…
If they ever go through with that proposed Khan show set on Ceti Alpha V, it is most likely to go fully “mature”. There might be a show entirely set in the Mirror Universe that could turn HP Lovecraft into an author of children’s books. And yes, Quentin Tarantino might be doing his Star Trek movie in the not so far away future. And R-Rated Star Trek movie in the style of Event Horizon or From Dusk Till Dawn…

I actually think the most horrifying thing I’ve ever witnessed in Star Trek was the transporter malfunction in ST:TMP. Those screams! And then the message from Starfleet about what they got back not living long, fortunately. Chilling to this day…

Are you really concerned about that snapshot from a very offset angle? I watched this week TNG with my children in the room. It was the episode with those bugs infesting high star trek officials through their neck. The showdown where Riker and Picard chase down the boss by shooting the head of the officer off, opening his chest with their phasers and killing the creature inside was FAR more horrible. I didn’t remember that but hope my kids are not dreaming bad from this.

Everyone seems to be complaining about the nudity snapshot while Discovery writes history with the most natural feeling homosexual kiss in TV history!

Maybe that nudity and gore scenes were just made to distract from the kiss… LOL…

“while Discovery writes history with the most natural feeling homosexual kiss in TV history!”

I totally appreciate THAT sort of boundary pushing. I love the character dynamics between Culber and Staments as I like most of the characters (but Lorca). I totally appreciate 99% of that wonderful show.
That’s why these brief instances of unnecessary adult material hurt that much more. It could be the best Trek show ever if they stopped inserting those forced jumping-the-bandwagon-of-contemporary-mature-premium-TV “five seconds of shame” in almost every episode.

I hope your kids are alright. That “Conspiracy” scene truly is so off from what Trek used to be like in the late 80s.

I remember watching that episode when it first broadcast. I swore my friend and I were discussing how little violence there was on the next generation. I remember allot of the fans feeling the same.
I think the producers just got ticked at hearing all the complaints. So they put that over the top, out of nowhere episode in there. It was really out of place.

Oh, one other thing: Is it possible that we have seen a bathroom for the first time in Star Trek? I wasn’t really aware of that because the mirror image of Stamets distracted me too much. OK, it’s still a far way to go until we see a toilet with 3 shells…

Smike, while I disagree with you on the gore, violence, and nudity, I respect your opinions on it. I know your father was beloved to you and you value the way he brought you up. Don’t let your personal preferences make you feel inferior. Personally, those things don’t make me squeamish, but I’m not exactly thrilled to see them in Star Trek. Okay well, the violence, I’m cool with. Gore and nudity do seem out of place, so do F-bombs. Having said all that, I’m still able to brush that aside and enjoy DSC. I hope you are too, someday.

“Don’t let your personal preferences make you feel inferior.”

Thanks a lot for your kind words. Not everybody tolerates my ongoing musings.

“Gore and nudity do seem out of place, so do F-bombs.”
I don’t mind an occasional F-bomb, as long as it isn’t done in a ridiculously excessive way as on Westworld or American Gods. But graphic gore and nudity is out of place and out of line on Star Trek, as it would be on Star Wars, Harry Potter or Middle-earth.

“I’m still able to brush that aside and enjoy DSC. I hope you are too, someday.”

If I only could. Believe me. I wish for it every single day. I just love thise universe so much. I feel so bad about not being able to fully appreciate it anymore due to those tribulations of late.

“I know your father was beloved to you and you value the way he brought you up.”

I do, although I also sort of blame him for having ruined my full appreciation of horror.
Until he died two years ago, I had never given this much thought. But indeed, Star Trek was the only show we would watch together frequently. He was very sensitive towards graphic violence due to his war experience and the bloody suicide of his first wife.
If he was still here, DSC would be the first Trek show he would walk out of. And that thought alone hurts a lot. On the other hand, he would hate seeing me like that. He would want me to be fine with it. Easier said than done.
Thanks again.

Kids watch Trek, but it has never been a kids show. There have always been adult themes.

A lot of us have pretty personal reasons, often connected to certain times in our lives, for connecting with Star Trek, and that’s probably a big part of why we get so passionate about it and get angry about change – whether that change be to sets and uniforms or to the way sex and violence is depicted.

And I’d say that it’s probably a lot healthier to show the physical and emotional toll of war and violence than to have it be stylized and harmless.

But this isn’t going to destroy Trek – or prevent new generations from discovering it.

I just don’t understand what griping about it on every thread is going to accomplish — are you hoping that CBS will listen?

It’s a general audience show targeted at grown-ups (and maybe teens). The previous Trek shows are all available and aren’t going anywhere.

Frankly, I think they’ve been trying too hard to placate fans.

“But it has never been a kids show. There have always been adult themes.”

I totally agree. THEMATICALLY Star Trek has always handled mature issues. Death has been a constant factor. “He’s dead, Jim!” was one of the most famous punchlines on TOS. We’ve witnessed the destruction of many ships, with thousands upon thousands of fictional characters on board. We’ve seen the destriction of Vulcan in the reboots, killing 6 billion! The Borg, the Dominion, the Xindi… billions of casualties. But none of this has been graphically depicted.

It’s hard to read about thousands of deaths in a real-life war, dozens of casualties in suicide bombings or shooting rampages. But would you show the VICTIMS in the flesh? Would you post videos or pictures? I know, some people do that, but it would even be illegal in my country.

Yes, Trek is fiction and doesn’t have to follow the exact same rules as real-life journalism. But the laws of my country still grant abstract “human diginity” to fictional characters. This is why many movies are still banned in their uncut form. Of course, this law is bogus, as most TV shows show a lot more ficticious violence than any of these older movies, but the intention is still there to protect the dignity of fictional characters. Even I consider this a silly and pointless effort, but I’ve been brought up on these rules and it’s really hard to overcome that brainwashing.

“I just don’t understand what griping about it on every thread is going to accomplish — are you hoping that CBS will listen?”

I’m emotionally devastated to such a high degree, I am not fully in control. I just have to speak out my concerns. I know that I can’t change a darn thing about any of that. There is nothing to be accomplished. I just feel obliged not to remain silent, but yeah, it’s borderline irrational to say the least. Don’t you think I don’t know that.

Well TV and movies are suppose to be a mirror in which what’s happening on screen happens in real life.Where do you think the writers get their ideas? The talent is in how the writers tell that story.I agree with your comments and ask for those who are bitching about this,go watch something else, problem solved ,or is it?? You still have to wake up and face the real world,still have to watch the real news each day.

I know, it’s utterly absurd. On the one hand I’m fine with Trek or Star Wars blowing up planets killing billions upon billions of innocent fictional people. On the other hand, I’m emotionally unable to accept bloody death on regular basis within these franchises.

But youth protection regulations have always been based on that irrational rift, especially in my country that has got penal laws in place against certain movies. They cut 1 or 2 minutes from movies like The Punisher for 18+ releases, you know, fighting “belittlement and glorification of violence” by actually cutting it out. IMO that IS belittlement of violence on its own because the movie plot itself remains the same, with only the ugly truth being hidden even from adults.

With regards to horror and hard action movies, I’m so totally against those laws I can’t tell you. But when it comes to all-age mainstream franchises, my feelings are instantly reversed. I’ve been caught in this illogical, irrational loophole for over 9 months now.

“And I’d say that it’s probably a lot healthier to show the physical and emotional toll of war and violence than to have it be stylized and harmless.”

And that’s so true! So true! But it’s exactly what our rating authorities do. As soon as the violence is stylized and toned-down, it’s rated 12+ or PG-13. Just look at the mindless killings in Thor 3 or Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.2… unbloody, non-graphic, but immoral and pointless killings for fun and entertainment, feel-good violence for the little ones.

But is the answer to that really more visceral depiction of violence in every family franchise that’s still left? I’m having a hard time with both extremes now, further complicating my mind set.

Spot on and correct.TOS was on prime time in the 60’s when kids were going to bed.As you say it was never a kids show,the brady bunch was.Don’t underestimate your kids they are watching far worse behind your back.It happens every new generation

Smike, I’m starting to get a sense from you that you’ve less of a problem with gore and sex on TV than you have with such things being in Star Trek.

I have disagreed with you almost every time, but I respect that you and I have a difference of opinion. I do want to say that those instances on Discovery that have left you so profoundly uncomfortable have been just that- instances. The “gore” and the “nudity” have never been gratuitous, they have been quick shots here and there across nine episodes and they have all been within context. The mangled bodies aboard the Glenn viscerally demonstrated and signposted the dangers of the DASH drive, the shot of L’Rell’s breasts were present in a scene that served to highlight the horror of sexual assault.

I do hope that outside of these moments, you have allowed yourself to enjoy what has been (thus far) a stellar first season.

But what they’re doing on DSC is rewriting the base code on which future Star Trek is based upon.

Again, I have to strongly disagree. They are not. If they were, we would have endless shots of nudity and gore that linger for several seconds. And it isn’t as though we haven’t had gratituous sexualised shots in Star Trek. Look at “Broken Bow”- Trip and T’Pol rub lotion on each other’s bodies in a scene that did not need it. It was completely out of place because that scene was about Trip disagreeing with T’Pol taking command. It could have literally been anywhere else.

See also the scene where we see T’Pol’s backside for absolutely no reason. They could have shown just her exposed back, but no- the producers intentionally objectified the character (and the actress).

“They are not. If they were, we would have endless shots of nudity and gore that linger for several seconds.”

Nope. Untrue. Most adult-oriented movies and TV shows do NOT feature endless sexualized bloodbaths. They use these elements to support the overall action and with most shows and movies, I’m fine with it. But gore, splatter and nudity should stay outside Trek and other all-age franchises. Maybe not entirely. 5-10 episode out of 700, that’s okay, but it’s now in every episode: brief moments, yes, but it’s happening on a regular basis now.

Former Trek shows briefly crossed into foreign territory every other season. DSC makes these elements part of their own DNA. It’ll now always remain part of future Trek. You cannot tune into future seasons, shows or movies without having to “fear” there might be boobies hiding behind every star. Whenever alien monsters attack, blood will be spilt visibly from now on. Klingons will go on cutting throats visibly. The Mirror Universe will be fully visceral this time round and don’t even mention the Borg returning some day. A trip to Risa will feel like Westworld.

“Smike, I’m starting to get a sense from you that you’ve less of a problem with gore and sex on TV than you have with such things being in Star Trek.”

You got it. This is my only true concern, along with other family-friendly franchises such as Star Wars, Harry Potter etc.

The only issue I have witn sex and gore on shows like GoT or Westworld is that they have become far too successful for the good of the genre. I had been fine with GoT for six years. I loved that show. But in early 2017 I finally began to realize, these elements were no longer limited to certain adult shows but are spreading, “infesting” formerly family-friendly franchises such as the X-verse and now Star Trek. That was the point were my troubles started.

Now I’m having a hard time enjoying either show. DSC because it’s tried to adapt to those modern-day standards, and GoT because I emotionally blame it for having this devastating impact on Trek. It’s a no-win situation for both franchises.

StarTrek has in each incarnation been a reflection of our times.
Discovery is no different

Look let’s get real do you really think in real life in the space station orbiting above us where there is men and women that they haven’t tested ,sex in zero gravity? All Trek is doing is bringing to screen what would happen on a long mission.It happened in Next Gen.many times. What’s the big deal here.

“The “gore” and the “nudity” have never been gratuitous, they have been quick shots here and there across nine episodes and they have all been within context.”

True. But the show could do without these “quick shots here and there”, especially because they are apparently so insignificant. That’s even more infuriating.
If they did an all-out “battlefield” episode once like on DS9 and be done with it, I’d be fine with it, but these seconds are present in almost every episode. It’s inseparably woven into the very fabric of the show in homeopathic dosages. Too little for “normal” people to feel offended by it, but too much to stay family-friendly.

Unfortunately Smike, times change and so do beloved franchises. We now live in a world where the Star Trek of yesteryear (pun intended) would never work. The world is a darker, more terrifying place. And Star Trek has always reflected the current social climate. And This is why Discovery is so different to TNG et al. But I guess being an intelligent person- you know that on some level.

Yes, the more graphic elements are there and more prominent to a degree- but they are never gratuitous in my eyes. They are there to enhance the mood of an episode (the claustrophobic horror elements aboard the Glenn) or to illustrate a key point (the sexual abuse that Ash suffered at the hands of L’Rell).

Let’s go back to the example I used earlier. Granted we never saw T’Pol’s bare breasts- but there was absolutely no reason to have her and Trip rub lotion all over each other in “Broken Bow”. The scene could have easily been her and Trip arguing in a corridor. The scene was there purely to objectify Jolene Blalock and position her as some kind of fantasy woman. And the same goes for Connor Trineer. The sexual objectification of the two actors was completely uncessesary and it took you out of the episode.

That’s not true about T’Pol we did see a side shot of her where you could clearly see her breasts and her ass in one shot.It was framed different in broadcast but on the blu-ray it’s left intact

@Smike – what gives you the right to decide what is out of place and out of line? That is so arrogant.

You whine about the excessive F bombs on Westworld…why is it excessive? Because YOU dont like it? I doubt the people writing, directing and producing it said “gee you know what, this is way too much…but lets do it anyway”. They dont feel its excessive.

Same with Star Trek.

Its THEIR creative endeavor. If you dont like it, make a TV show the way you want and then we will come here and whine about ad nauseam, okay?

I totally agree. This isn’t a pulpit to preach morality. If that affects you SO much, why put yourself through the torture? Watch PBS and Nick, though I’m sure you’d find something to complain about…

This is the hypocrisy of it all. The guy will spend hours talking about why its such an insult to morality but then will keep watching it. If you believe this strongly then yeah, you should simply stop watching it. I can’t stand idiots like this telling the rest of us why its ‘wrong’ and yet watch every episode with bells on. Well obviously it can’t be that bad if you literally watch all the sex and violence you are condemning on a website weekly.

Smike: There are a lot of things in TV and Movies that are unrealistic. Like a guy gets punched in the jaw. In real life he’s got a broken jaw.A few punches in the face and he has a broken eye socket.A guy get shot ,chances are he is not getting up.Sex is part of that beautiful universe you talk about. so is gore and violence.
So are F-bombs. That’s life and how life really is. It’s not out of place in Trek ,your living in the past.That Trek is gone forever. If shows could have gotton away with it in the 60’s they would have.

Guys, there is no difference between what happens on the big screen and small screen anymore that’s just the way it is. Its part of storytelling.These days they can film it where back in the day they had to imply it.No one remembers that famous kiss of 2 women on DS9? That was Trek in the 90’s!!So since 2 woman kiss on screen, it’s ok but 2 men you have a issue with that.Come on guys let’s be honest we like our woman kissing on screen.

Did you know that Stargate had nudity in its first season when it aired on showtime?

It was edited later though.

Exactly! When SG1 moved to other networks they edited it out. What’s to stop something similar from happening to Discovery if they want to release it on DVD?

They could release 2 versions.

“What’s to stop something similar from happening to Discovery if they want to release it on DVD? They could release 2 versions.”

Won’t happen, unless CBS tries to copy Sony’s strategy of releasing “clean” versions of some of their movies.

But even I wouldn’t wish for clean cut of DSC. Now that this stuff has happened, it’s part of TV history. They shouldn’t cut it. But for future seasons, I’d be more than grateful if they revert back to a TV-14 rating and only cross the line when absolutely necessary and not for the mere sake of it. If that TV-MA material was limited to the experimental phase of Season 1, I’d look back on it relieved. But if they go on like that, doubling or tribbling the amount of gore and nudity for next season, I’d be truly sad.

I’m more concerned with the longrange prospect for Trek than I am with DSC Season 1.0… The day they announce that Quentin Tarantino Trek movie will be the day I’ll be signing off from Starfleet for good…

This is getting paranoid and silly.

Very paranoid and silly. Slow news day.

(Sorry. I realize that this really does bother you. But nobody’s going to turn Trek into Caligula. CBS is (too) protective of the franchise.

They won’t release 2 versions.You take it as is or don’t watch.

I believe Stargate’s only nudity was in the pilot episode/TV-movie “Children of the Gods.”

It is very brief and gets edited out of all syndicated broadcasts (they edit out some shots, and crop others). All-in-all it’s only a few seconds that are cut.

The “Final Cut” version of the episode that was released in 2009 removed the nudity altogether. They also replaced all the music with an original score, updated the graphics, removed the “cliffhanger” ending that leads into the next episode(s) and also included a number of head scratching changes to dialogue. It was not released in High Definition so there wasn’t much of a point in purchasing it.

They still sell the original edit of the episode on DVD.

@Smike – you keep complaining because you like to read your own posts. To be honest, there has been nothing shown that deserves a TVMA rating yet. Im not even sure two incidents of an F Bombs gets you MA under most circumstances but even so, that was one episode.

Huh. Well, Jason, respectfully, you haven’t won me over. Just because people don’t spend ALL their time complaining about the latest bastardization of a beloved universe doesn’t mean they’ve all fallen in line. Do you think it more likely that I spent all those years complaining about every crappy episode of Voyager and Enterprise, or that I just stopped watching? You decide. The opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference. But go ahead and pat yourself on the back, I guess.

Michael… don’t watch. Plenty of other stuff you can watch. I actually enjoy it quite a bit. But if you don’t, you have a choice to not watch. But you’ll still watch every episode and bitch about it.

It’s this mentality I don’t understand. I didn’t like Enterprise (I still don’t) but I don’t feel the need to whine about it at every available opportunity. It says to me that people don’t have much of a life and that’s really sad.

If somebody gets their kicks by complaining endless online about a Star Trek television show or the Kelvin Timeline movies then they don’t deserve our scorn, they deserve our pity.

Conversely, I don’t understand the blind acceptance and or love of something because is has Star Trek in the title. Every episode is different. Each installment succeeds or fails on it’s own merits. If it was amazing, I’ll be first in line to celebrate. If it sucks and it just wasted an hour of my time, I’ll be there to call them out on it. It doesn’t mean I don’t like the show, it means I don’t like that episode of the show. For the most part, I absolutely hated TNG and what it turned Star Trek into. Outside of Picard, Data, Geordi and O’brien, I didn’t like the actors or characters…thought it was painfully dull and unimaginative. But I give excellent episodes like Yesterday’s Enterprise and The Inner Light their due. And it was because of episodes like that, I stuck with the show…I knew the series had potential. Granted, it was a rarely realized potential, but it was there none the less. Now, with Orville, I bailed after 3 episodes as I saw no hope of it ever “growing up”, due to it all being played in Seth’s sandbox. Discovery has way too many cooks in the kitchen (just witness the executive producer credits in the opening sequence) and a tank of writers that seems to lack a solitary vision. But those dynamics can change, so I’m sticking with it. I hope, in review, the creators can give their creation a fair assessment and rework the elements that aren’t working. We’ll see.

Oh there are elements of Discovery I really don’t like. I think the Klingon scenes (until the mid season finale) were awful and I’m angry that the promise of exploring the Klingon POV has not been met. I think the theme music is lacking in general and the Klingon War has been totally superfluous. They should have simply focused on the DASH drive plot which is much more engaging.

But there are elements that I absolutely adore. Sonequa is a marvellous lead, Ash Tyler’s story has been harrowing and I love Lorca’s shady motivations, I’m here for the first real LGBTQ+ relationship in Trek history and Tilly is my absolute everything.

There is elements of every past Trek show I don’t like ,so what.All past shows had horrible episodes that didn’t stop me from watching them. The good out weighed the bad. People need to stop thinking they know it all,they don’t and no one cares

Always nice to see some Tilly love.

Valid points. I personally wish this site was a site for fans that enjoy the show and just want to discuss the episodes and make predictions etc., but that isn’t what this site is set up for, so be it. That being said the ranting of a few people such as Smike that want to pick one aspect of the show and drill it to the center of the earth needs to go away.

Jon – why is it blind acceptance? I like the show for what it is. As do many others, obviously. I don’t like it because it is Star Trek – although that is why we are all here and why we all tuned into it in the first place. I like it for being Discovery – I tuned in because it was Star Trek – I stayed because I liked it. If someone doesn’t like it, they have a choice to not watch it. Yet, instead, they tune in week after week and whine about how much they don’t like it.

I guess you missed the part where I said I was doing exactly that. But Jason seems to think that the only indication of the crappy quallity of his show would be continuously saying that I don’t like it, which even I don’t have time for, because I don’t care that much. That’s the exact point I was making. Well, and also, that Jason Isaac’s is a massive blowhard.

If Jason Isaacs swings one leg over the back of a chair and hits on a random female crewman, I’ll know Frakes is directing.

Ha. I don’t really understand what uniquely-Star Trekian problem the arm-folding is solving — surely, in most roles, actors aren’t constantly doing things (brain surgery, cooking omelettes, defusing bombs) with their hands in every single scene.

I was never a fan of Frakes’ acting, but he seems like a pretty good guy.

I think they were specifically talking about what to do with your hands during combat-scenes/ship-under-fire. At least that’s what I got from it.

I got the sense that Frakes meant generally (I vaguely remember some cast wishing the uniforms had pockets) — standing with arms folded when the ship’s getting tossed around doesn’t quite make sense.

I don’t get all of the negative feedback. The hell with past Star Trek shows they were all good in there day. People should remember all the negative feedback when next Gen came out and it took until season 3 to get off the ground!.DS9 was considered dark and slow, Voyager to much tech babble.Discovery got going after the 2nd episode. It feels Trek to me and I have seen them all.What do people want ,lets hear it! Don’t waste your time if you say I want next gen or DS9 get with the times. Star Wars seems to change all the time yet fans are open to that,what’s Trek lands problem.You want new and fresh and when they do that you bitch.You can’t have it both ways,didn’t your mothers teach you that.Oh I see it’s not Trek your way, babies!!

Some fans see comfort and familiarity in Trek — it’s a reassurance that all of society’s problems will be solved/it’s a link to our childhoods/and a link to a time when America was perceived as the leader/problem-solver/moral voice (even if that wasn’t really true) — and they want what they’ve seen before. And maybe they’re afraid that too much change could end Trek. We also have this idea that we personally are responsibile for Trek’s success (by turning on our TVs and buying stuff) and therefore are the experts on what it should be.

In other words, a lot of us are pretty deluded.

Yeah this happens with every show or film. There will always be negative feedback no matter what. The Force Awakens has a 92% rating on Rotten tomatoes and made $2 billion. But go on the internet and you will easily find a large community of people who think it was the worst SW film since the Christmas special. Thats just how it goes.

Now it doesn’t mean those people are wrong or that things can’t be improved but I think most people can like a show even if they still have problems with it. ITs not black and white. I really like Discovery and I still have issues with it. But I get its a TV show, its still finding its way like most Trek shows at the beginning. Its not close to my favorite show by far but it does feel like a Trek show to me. And frankly I’m just happy Trek is back on TV. When Enterprise premiered so many of us took it for granted by that point it was easy to give up on it right away if you didn’t like it. Now its a different time and I want the show to succeed so we will get other shows in the future. Even if I never love it as much as TNG or DS9 I will grow to accept it for what it is which is what I done for all the shows at this point.

As weve seen on this site, some people are contrarian for the sake of being contrarians. If you need to be an Internet personality, its easier to get attention by taking a negative perspective in general, especially against something that is widely considered to be good.

We’ve seen people here who come up with all sort of hilarious reasons to be critical of Discovery because it makes them feel “cool” but they really have little to say once you get past the negative nonsense.

This is true. If someone hates the show that’s certainly their prerogative, but to just say “it sucks’ is as one-dimensional as it gets.

Does anyone but the most hardcore of Star Trek fans even watch this program?

I’m not joking when I say I have literally not talked to one single person who has seen the show besides the debut on CBS and of coarse people who post on this board and others similar to it…CBS will never give the numbers, but I’d bet my life that the shows viewership is shockingly low. Most people don’t even know Discovery exists.

Well we know 10+ million watched the pilot on CBS so there is clearly still a big audience for Star Trek.

But yes I do agree with you in the sense I don’t know anyone in the real world who watches this show. Certainly not like the old days where I had tons of friends watching TNG, DS9 and Voyager and we talked about them weekly. But I was in school in this period and I was around other nerds all the time lol. Being an adult with a lot less friends today sadly I don’t know anyone who watches this show outside the internet. That doesn’t mean its not popular of course but I don’t think very mainstream compared to other shows out there where I know plenty of folks watching stuff like GOT, Stranger THings, NCIS, Walking Dead, Grey’s Anatomy, etc because I hear them talk about it at work or bring it up, good or bad. Sadly no one ever brings up DIscovery in even the most fleeting conversations.

I actually know people who are not Trek fans that ended up watching it. I guess it works both ways.