On Friday, CBS lit up the world of Star Trek by finally officially confirming Captain Pike’s Enterprise was returning for the series Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. We already know some of the major characters for the show, and now fans are starting to wonder who else will be filling out the crew.
Could Combs be the new Boyce?
The official announcement for Star Trek: Strange New Worlds confirmed that Anson Mount (Captain Pike), Ethan Peck (Spock), and Rebecca Romijn (Number One) will be reprising their roles from the second season of Star Trek: Discovery. The show is set onboard the USS Enterprise under the command of Captain Pike, in the years preceding Star Trek: The Original Series. The characters of Pike, Spock and Number One were all established to be on this earlier Enterprise in the original Star Trek pilot “The Cage.”
Ethan Peck as Spock, Anson Mount as Pike and Rebecca Romijn as Number One will all be reprising their roles for Star Trek: Strange New Worlds
One of the other important characters from “The Cage” who didn’t appear in Discovery’s second season was Dr. Phillip Boyce, played by actor John Hoyt. Not only was Boyce the Enterprise’s Chief Medical Officer, but “The Cage” established he had a close bond with Captain Pike and acted as both confidant and personal bartender. Strange New Worlds will be set a few years after “The Cage,” so there very well could be changes in the Enterprise crew, but the ship still must have a doctor, so Boyce being a key character on the show is entirely plausible.
Captain Pike and Dr. Boyce in TOS “The Cage”
If Boyce is part of Strange New Worlds, either as a series regular or a recurring character, the question is: Who would play him? There are of course many capable actors who could fit the bill, but some fans have already highlighted one: Jeffrey Combs. The 65-year-old veteran actor is well known to Trek fans playing multiple roles in three Trek series, including the recurring roles of the Ferengi Brunt and the Vorta Weyoun on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and the Andorian Shran in Star Trek: Enterprise.
Jeffrey Combs as Shran in Star Trek: Enterprise
The Combs-as-Boyce concept gained traction on social media with a Saturday tweet from fan @AndorianSoup simply noting the similarities between Hoyt and Combs.
WAAAAAAAIT A MINUTE 🤔 pic.twitter.com/CpKybYzMD8
— Andorian Parsnip Soup 🎄 (@AndorianSoup) May 16, 2020
In just a day that tweet has over a thousand likes and has even a thread on Reddit, which has trended to the top of the main Star Trek subreddit. Today all this activity caught the attention of Jeffrey Combs himself. While flattered, Combs poured some cold water on the notion, saying, “the chasm between what fans want and what the studios want make the chances of it happening slim to none.”
Thank you. Nice thought, but the chasm between what fans want and what the studios want make the chances of it happening slim to none…. and Slim left town.
— jeffrey combs (@jeffreycombs) May 17, 2020
Of course, this doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but it seems clear that Combs has not been approached. It isn’t even known if Boyce is a character on the show and if so, whether casting for the role has begun. Obviously, Strange New Worlds doesn’t have a premiere date yet; co-creator Akiva Goldsman told Variety that he has no idea when the show will start shooting, with all production currently on lockdown due to the coronavirus pandemic.
Sharma wants back in
The Boyce casting isn’t the only bit of fan speculation going on. Actress Rekha Sharma who played (now dead) Commander Landry in the first season of Discovery responded to a fan suggestion that she could show up as Landry’s sister. The actress seemed keen, joking that she’s already working on it during quarantine.
Perfect! 😍 I'll get the twin I've been growing in quarantine to play her!
( It's basically like sourdough ) https://t.co/zRh002FhOv— Rekha Sharma (@TheRekhaSharma) May 17, 2020
Who would you like to see on Strange New Worlds?
What characters and/or actors do you want to be part of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds? Sound off in the comments below.
Keep up with all the Star Trek: Strange New Worlds news at TrekMovie.com.
I bet they regret killing off admiral Cornwall! She would have been a great addition for guest star!!!
Hey, maybe we’ll get a guest shot by CAPTAIN/COMMODORE ROBERT APRIL somewhere down the line – wouldn’t that be something?
As the person who created Robert April, I would love to see him represented “live” for the first time.
Hear, hear. Seems way overdue for that to happen.
Definitely and this show would seem a perfect opportunity for making that happen.
There could be a flashback to Captain April’s handing over command of the Enterprise to Captain Pike. Maybe April could be played by Shatner, like without his rug or something. Starting with McCoy in TNG, there’s been a tradition that a character from a previous Star Trek production shows up in the pilot episode of a new Star Trek production: McCoy in TNG, Picard in DS9, Quark in Voyager, and Zefram Cochrane in Enterprise. Disco didn’t start this way, unless one counts Sarek, who was a recurring character. In Picard I guess the person from a previous production was Data.
Shatner would have to play quite a lot of years younger than he is. If SNW starts in 2258 when DIS season 2 ended, then April is only 63 years old.
And personally I really doubt that Shatner would be willing. I have the impression that the only character he would be willing to play in a Star Trek series again is Kirk and then also only if he has a bigger role.
Going by the tradition, someone from Picard should appear in the first episode, not someone from TOS. Though DSC already broke that tradition, and nobody from DSC appeared in PIC.
At best though, I would say someone from DSC should show up. Maybe Sarek, given his connection to the Enterprise’s science officer.
Actually Enterprise already broke that tradition as well. Many count Zefram Cochrane appearance as continuing the tradition but it really wasn’t the same since he had been long established on TOS first and it should’ve been a character directly from Voyager. Obviously the timeline didn’t permit that but I seen fan ideas over the years how it could’ve been handled like a future Janeway talking to people at the NX-01 about Archer and then going into flashback form, stuff like that. I’m glad they didn’t do anything like that though but in reality Voyager was the last show to do that.
Well, T’pol would be around her 170s by then. Maybe an Admiral active or retired?
A lot of fans would love to see that
Oh the genocidal Admiral who was portrayed really poorly? Sorry I have to disagree with you on that!
That’s Garth of Izar whom you mean I think Collector. Captain Robert April did appear on The Animated Series in The Counter-Clock Incident.
Gene Roddenberry had stated that the animated series was not canon so that would make Robert April not an official appearance in Cannon but I would love the idea for it to become official
Technically Robert April has become canon, if you remember there was a scene on Discovery where there was a list showing the previous captains of Enterprise and April was part of that list.
April became canon because Gene said he was canon. As the writer of “The Counter-Clock Incident,” I appreciated that!
would you have imagined it would still be talked about almost 50 years later?
It was a list of the best Starfleet captains not Enterprise captains. Matt Decker was also on that list.
So April is not quite canon as Enterprise captain.
When Pike showed his service record to the crew of Discovery, at the start of Season 2, Pike’s name was listed as April’s XO on… the Enterprise!
April is canon. End of story.
Yeah, I remember it was Pike’s service record. Odradek, maybe you need to watch that scene more carefully.
I stand corrected. I thought you spoke from season one. My bad.
If this is a day of the week where we’re counting The Animated Series as canon, April was the first captain of the Enterprise.
No need to rely on TAS. Robert April as captain of the Enterprise before Pike was confirmed in the DSC episode Brother (and there was a reference to him on another DCS episode as well).
Discovery isn’t Star Trek, silly! It sure wants to be, but none of these NuTrek writers seem to know what Star Trek is supposed to be.
Shadow Mann: Shut up!
I usually try not to be so blunt, but yeah, shut up.
Tiger2, may I respectfully ask why it’s okay for you to express your thoughts and opinions on Star Trek, but it’s not okay for Shadow Man to do the same? (Doesn’t seem very IDIC to me.)
Because he’s trolling AND gatekeeping, neither that are allowed here.
The other post you made here did either even though it was critical of Kurtzman and the new shows. I don’t agree with all of it but that’s your opinion and you’re expressing it without telling other fans here the shows they like doesn’t count just because YOU don’t like them. You’re simply telling us why you don’t think they are good without discrediting them. That’s the difference and should be expressed.
If people don’t like Kurtzman and these shows, fine. I have zero issues with that (and have my own issues with them, some you may have read here on this board). But that other guy is just here to rile people up, noting more.
Dude, I strongly disagree with your post. But you have a right to make your opinion known here without anyone trying to bully you out of the conversation.
I totally agree. The more Strange New Worlds distances itself from Discovery, the better. Especially if Viacom/CBS is sincere in their desire for it to be “more optimistic”. Sadly, as long as they allow Alex Kurtzman to continue to have creative control, the less likely it can truly be a return-to-form for a Star Trek dedicated to “exploring strange new worlds”, (vs “exploring soap-opera style character conflicts and ongoing violence”).
If they *really* want to have the big hit they could have had with Discovery and Picard, (and return Star Trek to being the merchandising cash-cow it’s been for decades), they need to make Strange New Worlds a show that will appeal to most of the new fans AND the legions of loyal classic Star Trek fans throughout the world who have strongly disliked Kurtzman’s Trek. IMO, that could only happen if they keep Kurtzman in charge in title only, while bringing in a new team of writers who actually know and love classic Star Trek, (TOS/TNG) and have previously established their ability to write truly compelling Science Fiction stories vs Science Fantasy/Action/Soap Opera stories.
Alex Kurtzman actually stated that he never liked Star Trek, so it’s no surprise that Discovery and Picard felt like Star Trek in name only to a large portion of the fan base. No one in their right mind would take their classic Shelby Cobra Roadster to a restoration expert that says he hates American sports cars. Likewise, IMO, it was a HUGE mistake for CBS to give one of their most valuable intellectual properties to a writer/producer who neither understood nor liked it. SMH
Do you think “new fans” find old Star Trek as appealing? There’s the rub. Modern audiences would probably not tune into classic episodic Star Trek with regularity. With that said, hopefully they’ll just go all-in and make Strange New Worlds the show for the “old fans” to enjoy! 😊
Well said. That’s exactly what is going on. The problem, we now have, is a fan base, mixed of the “old” fans, who like the good old Star Trek, with a perspective of a grown up mankind and ships and technology based on actual science. That’s what made Star Trek so special, compared to other (Sci-)Fi and inspired young people to become scientists or fighters for human rights. Those fans even complaint about a joystick on the Enterprises bridge or wheels on a planetary vessel, because that doesn’t make sense.
Since 2009 we have Star Trek based on action, “intriguing” character moments and more and more dirty language. And it has found it’s fans, too, who are arguably used to this iteration and like this kind of focus of the franchise. The so created split can hardly grow together. I mean, it could be possible for a really, really good show runner to do this kind of magic. But I don’t see anyone with this talent or goal in the producer’s or writer’s room. They’d need a Many Coto^2 for nowadays Star Trek to fix all that mess.
There are many more admirals left in the fleet 😌
I regret that they did, certainly. She had quite a fandom! Young and middle-aged women alike adored her.
If the new series opens up timelined PRIOR to Admiral Cornwall’s death, she could reasonably appear, she won’t have died until after Discovery happens. Everybody failed Temporal Mechanics here?
PRIOR TIME LINE…
She could appear as Cornwall, new show set in time PRIOR TO “Dicovery”.
Go back to Temporal Mechanics Class
Mirror Cornwall
Problem was, she would have outweighed everyone else on the ship !
Probably they do, but this is sci-fi/fantasy. Death isn’t a major disability.
She still could be… In the form of memories, sleep or waking dreams, or video/holographic recordings.
Start a Campain “Bring back Admiral Cornwall” !
Sounds like a cool idea. I’m not familiar with “The Cage” so enlighten me. I don’t know who Dr Boyce is before.
See if you get a chance to go back and watch the pilot “THE CAGE”, Faze. It’s great.
Call me Ninja but thanks. Why was “The Cage” changed to TOS? That’s canon so good to know.
“The Cage” wasn’t changed to TOS–it’s TOS’s first episode.
And “canon” is a non-starter when it comes to Star Trek. The shows have violated their own canon a thousand times. All that matters is if you enjoy it. The worst thing that has ever happened to fandom is this bizarre obsession some have with what is and isn’t canon.
Totally agreed!
“The worst thing that has ever happened to fandom is this bizarre obsession some have with what is and isn’t canon.”
Absolutely, what began as -some- consistency has become like rigid dogma. Trek should be enjoyed and when it really works – it can be inspirational.
The canon thing is my own biases showing. I agree with you, this bizarre obsession needs to stop. Fandoms are dumb to begin with.
Saying fandoms are dumb is dumb. Fandoms CREATED THESE IPs, not studios. Without fans, you have nothing.
Absolutely true, we need to cut the fans some slacks. Without us do you think Star Trek would ever have continued to prosper after 54 years?
Agreed. As a Trek fan, I love canon conversations.
Nothing wrong with that.
Excuse me but The Cage was a pilot, not a first episode. It never aired in it’s original form because Desilu rejected it. Please, when you are some youngster coming into Star Trek at least a decade after its creation, resist the temptation to try and tell fans who have been there since 1966 (like me) what the canon is. Thanks!
The Cage was retroactively made canon (although the concept didn’t exist yet) by incorporating it into “The Menagerie” a half season in.
It was eventually aired in the 1980’s.
Only The Menagerie is canon. The Cage was not a Star Trek episode, and did not air as shot.The Menagerie and everything within it is canon. Nobody except Roddenberry (Gene, not Rod and certainly nobody else) can make canon “retroactive”.
Shadow Mann, The Cage was something that Roddenberry showed at cons, and then in the 80s the coloured footage from the Menagerie was integrated and it was released to video.
At the time, it was part of Roddenberry’s messaging to media and fans to show that TNG captured many of his original ideas for a more celebral Star Trek that he couldn’t sell in the 60s. That is, he and Paramount brought it forward and released it to show that TNG was ‘real’ Trek.
So, I don’t know how much more blessing from the Great Bird you could get.
I’ve always said that trying to appease GR was a tremendous mistake. He created the concept but that was pretty much the only thing he got right. I am still a huge believer that he himself was not the prime reason for the success of the shows. For TOS it was Gene Coon and for TNG it was Rick Berman. Saying “we are trying to uphold Gene’s vision” or whatever is merely servicing fans who still think Gene was some sort of Trek deity. Which I think is FAR from the case.
@ML31
I agree with you 1000% on GR. He created the show, but he’s not what made it great. This idea that the series has to be “this” or “that” is nonsense.
I wouldn’t even go so far to say he created it. I agree with George Clayton Johnson that GR copied mainly Edmond Hamilton’s Captain Future books. Although I did not read the books I saw the anime which had a lot of the same concepts as Star Trek. The anime came after TOS so I am not sure who borrowed from whom, but I trust Johnson that Roddenberry plagiarized Hamilton.
I honestly would not be surprised if this were true.
Regardless of what he was inspired or influenced by, he still created star trek. Even if he copied some elements, Star Trek was created by Roddenberry, and possibly some of the early writers (just as Stan Lee and Bob Kane created Spider-Man and Batman, Ditko and bill Finger get co-creator status for their immeasurable initial contributions).
ML31 and T’Pol’s Beard, I agree.
But I also feel it necessary to push back on folks like Shadow Mann who appeal to GR as the only authority, when GR’s own statements about what was in or out of canon went back and forth through time, especially when it seemed to have more to do with legal technicalities than creative concerns. TAS’s status would be the most egregious case, but The Cage runs a close second.
This kind of appeal to GR is a kind of gatekeeping of the whole franchise. True, there are some universes, more typically in fiction, where the creators never let anyone else make key creative decisions in their sandbox, but Star Trek has never been one of them. Roddenberry ceded control, and folks like Shadow Mann need to live with it (even if they use their own definition).
BTW I feel much the same way about Star Wars : that is, I really only like the original 3 movies. I am not however going to say to anyone that the other 6 movies and various television products aren’t SW.
Last point to Shadow Mann, there are a fair number of us on this board who either saw Star Trek in first run (me for example) or in the early syndication of the 70s. But that doesn’t mean that TOS is the only Trek we value, or that we don’t appreciate what Kurtzman and SH are trying to do for the franchise.
I agree. I never understood the idea of treating GR as a messiah and everything he says goes when there were so many others as you pointed out that took what he did and made it better. OF COURSE he created the thing, there would be no TOS and TNG without him but the guy didn’t have the only ideas on how to make them good and in many cases it was the opposite of that.
I highly doubt GR would like most of what Star Trek is today and I don’t care. Star Trek would’ve died long ago if he had sole control over all of it.
I agree. Reportedly GR was not happy with where the movie franchise went after TMP. That might have been part of why he wanted to try again and create TNG.
Your attitude, shadow, is exactly what HNIR and I, and others, are talking about. This anger over what is and isn’t canon, anger over what somoene else calls something, this form of gatekeeping, and hipsterism.
I don’t care if you’re a fan since 1966, since 1987, 1993, 1994, 2001, 2009, or 2017. Anyone who likes any form of Star Trek is welcome, and is a fan. No one is a BETTER fan for the length of time they’ve been a fan, or the depth of their knowledge.
Take that nonsense elsewhere. Go hangout on Nerdrotic and ME youtube comment sections!
I was ten years old when TOS came out. Been a fan all the way to Discovery. Can’t wait for SNW. It’s a homage to the original. Gene and Majel would be smiling.
The Cage was a rejected pilot.
Exactly. So was the Phase II ship they modeled Discovery after.
“the Cage” was aired intact as a special on the sci fi channel back when it was still properly
don’t lecture me, sonny..
Agreed — and that is why The Cage is canon. Rodenberry defined canon as such.
Discovery is vaguely similar to the “Planet of the Titans” Enterprise, which itself showed up a few times in later Treks. The Phase II Enterprise was closer to the TMP one.
The Phase II Enterprise was essentially the TMP Enterprise. They tweaked the design a bit when they decided they needed a larger filming model for a movie versus TV show.
It was boring. Spock was also a raging bag of emotions.
“THE WOMEN!!!”
Still the funniest line…ever. ;)
On the pilot, the Spock character was still in a very malleable stage. They did not know what exactly he would be just yet. It seems disingenuous to steadfastly stick to every facial tick he made in an episode that was never intended to be seen by anyone but network executives.
Exactly! And the same is true in early TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT episodes. Characters weren’t always well-defined right away. Performances often felt forced or stiff early on as actors fell into their roles on screen.
That’s one thing TV has changed since those days: more and more shows today premiere with fully developed, nuanced characters. I am rewatching my favorite show, Justified, this week, and right from the premiere, these are characters that feel like they’re in the 3rd or 4th seasons of a long running show. And that’s true for most shows nowadays.
I attribute this to the bigger budgets and shorter seasons, which allow the writers extra time to polish their scripts and characters, directors more time to construct the scenes, dialogue, and pacing, and actors to familiarize themselves with characters and do extensive rehearsals.
I think part of the reason for this is also that acting for TV changed drastically, especially in the last 10-15 years. Back in the day TV acting was much more theatrical in nature with many instances of actors overacting or over-emoting. In the last 15-20 years the TV acting became more realistic and naturalistic. As a result the characters themselves became more realistic and not really TV characters anymore.
“It seems disingenuous to steadfastly stick to every facial tick he made”
Get bit by a tick, you get Lyme disease. Eat too many limes, you get facial tics.
He smiled once and, of course, yelled ‘the women!’ but not really a raging bag of emotions. If you want to see that, watch Quinto’s Spock in ST2009.
And at least Quinto’s Spock is not the same character, so I can forgive it. He’s a version of Spock who never fully embraced his vulcan side.
Watch the Menagerie…. it’s The Cage but presented as a flashback with a Kirk/Spock frame. Essential and brilliant
Exactly reid mcduffe! I was surprised I didn’t see anyone mentioning that. The majority of the first pilot “The Cage” was incorporated into the TOS season one episodes “The Menagerie Parts I & II”, establishing it as canon.
There’s quite a bit in The Cage that was lost in the cuts to make The Menagerie.
In the version I first saw of The Cage, the cut scenes were all in Black and White. It was actually a significant amount of content, and puts some greater nuance on some of the events.
In fact, like someone else has mentioned elsewhere on this thread, once having watched The Cage, I find it hard to watch The Menagerie and tend to skip in during ToS rewatches.
I’m wondering now how much of that is emotion about what was lost in the path not taken. Perhaps I’ll feel differently once SNW is streamed.
Faze, no matter how hard you try nobody is going to call you Ninja. Nice try though.
I will. I respect a person’s right to be addressed how they choose.
All the reason you need for not having a large ensemble cast. We don’t need a role for a doctor. Or anyone else.
The Cage is a beautiful piece of Star Trek from another dimension. Watching it back is bizarre and wonderful. It was rejected by Desilu for being too “cerebral” and they wanted some more wagon train to the stars action adventure instead and commissioned a completely separate pilot Where No Man Has Gone Before (equally weird and wonderful compared to the series that followed.) The order for a second pilot was a history making move. To this day (I believe) is still the only show in history to have had two separate pilots.
In the storyline of The Cage, Pike is struggling with the responsibilities of being Captain. He’s greeted for a drink by his friend and confidant Dr. Boyce. It was a really powerful scene with a lot of interesting character dynamics that I thought was ahead of its time for a Star Trek show.
Worth a watch if you get the opportunity!
“To this day (I believe) is still the only show in history to have had two separate pilots.”
All in the Family had three.
I think that is more usal than people do belive. I saw an unaired pilot of Buffy with a different Willow and a pilot of Big Bang Theory where Sheldon is known for getting laid with cosplaying girls at conventions.
I believe Game Of Thrones also had a unaired pilot before its normal pilot.
In today’s TV an actual pilot is becoming more and more rare. Today most shows are sold on concepts as making them is awfully expensive.
Back in the day it was also not unusual for a pilot to sell a show and then for the actual show to change actors for roles and even change elements of characters.
And The Cage is the only pilot which was picked up 55 years later. ;-)
Bryce was basically just an older version of Bones. Not much difference in the one episode. It would be a good addition for the cast. Especially if it were Combes.
They wanted Bones to be older than Kirk, but not substantially older. So Dr. Piper was out. That decision was made between the 2nd pilot and the actual production of the series. This was not GR’s decision. And it was the right one.
The Cage is the rejected first pilot for TOS and Boyce was the Chief Medical Officer and Pike’s friend. NBC apparently called the plot “too cerebral” for the general tv audience to understand, wanting a simpler story. Gene had promised them a “wagon train to the stars” and The Cage was no western – where were the fist fights, rifles, and sexual tension? (Go watch the second pilot) Supposedly the execs also had a problem with females in command roles – saying Number One as first officer was apparently “not believable”. Gene stuck with having women on the bridge but I guess tv execs were okay for women to be yeomen like Rand pouring coffee OR in Communications (like telephone operators). I still really like how in Balance of Terror, Uhura takes over the Navigation position as she was obviously a trained Starfleet bridge officer – I wonder if that pissed off any of the execs back then! Anyway,parts of the show were used in the TOS episode The Menagerie with Spock not yet purged of emotion as he was – smiling at singing plants and yelling excitedly! Even in Charlie X he is still struggling to control his emotions at the end of the episode, but later became the Vulcan we all know and love! You can dig around and find The Cage in its original form – despite some rough edges it is a very cool story and well worth watching.
I can confirm that after the first pilot NBC told GR to lose both the alien and the woman 1st officer. He negotiated it down to one or the other and they accepted. He kept the alien. It was one of the few good decisions GR made.
He kept the alien and married “the woman first officer.”
Faze… “The Cage” was the first filmed pilot for Star Trek, in 1964. It has the heroic Captain (Pike) the kindly ship’s doctor (Boyce), and the emotionless first officer (“Number One”). Plus there is a pointy-eared alien officer who frequently displays emotions (Spock). NBC rejected it, but having spent a fortune for the sets, props and miniatures, they took the almost unprecedented step of commissioning a second pilot. By this time, Jeffery Hunter decided he didn’t want to do TV, so he declined to return for the second pilot. Roddenberry hired William Shatner and changed the Captain’s name to Kirk (a brilliant move which allowed footage from “The Cage” to be re-used later as a flashback) and revised the formula a bit, combining the unemotional first officer and Spock into one character (largely because NBC did not want Majel Barrett — Roddenberry’s not particularly concealed mistress — in a starring role on the show… she returned in a blonde wig as Nurse Chapel a few episodes in.) DeForest Kelley was brought in for the second episode as Dr. McCoy, replacing Dr. Piper from the second pilot. Roddenberry wrote a framing story in which Spock recounts the story of Pike and “The Cage”, creating the Hugo-winning two-part episode “The Menagerie”.
I strongly suspect we’ll see a whole new crew ( apart from the new “BIG THREE” ) rather than the characters seen in “THE CAGE”, as much I too would love to see DR BOYCE ( be it Jeffry Combs, Peter Capaldi or whoever ).
I do wonder if Commander Nhan will be back though. I liked the actress, who brought some gusto to the character, even though her character design was straight out of the 1990s.
In “The Cage,” Boyce was one of the main characters–and easily the most interesting character in the cast. He needs to come back.
One of the main characters, really? I remember him serving whingey Pike a drink and listening to him. I don’t really remember much else of him, I liked the actor very much but did not care for Jeffrey Hunter’s Pike. Just me though.
Also, brace yourselves, folks, for backlash or being upset about casting someone different looking in the role. I’m open to anything, but there are some who will have absolute hissy fits.
I’d love if they rethink the casting of some of the characters of 1960s TV as they did with Colt.
Make Yeoman Colt a guy, for starters.
Tyler’s Hispanic already in theory, with the name of Jose. The guy who ran the tranporter could easily be cast as Slavic, or just the descendant of 8 generations of football linebackers. They could include Alden from WNMHGB as jr. com officer, maybe we just never saw him till 2nd pilot.
I always figured Scotty had been with the ship years before Kirk, possibly based on novels.
Funny… You based it on the novels but I just put two and two together to come up with Scotty being on the Enterprise before Kirk. I mean, his attachment to that ship and those engines suggest a long standing relationship. I always suspected he worked his way up the ladder and maybe was even made Chief Engineer when Kirk was given the ship. Or he had JUST gotten the position right before. Although I like the idea of Kirk looking at the personnel and promoting him when he arrives.
I’ve been seeing it the same way ML31.
Scotty is a bit older, and is already very attached to the Enterprise in particular. I would think that he have been on the Enterprise much earlier. It is possible though for him to have served on the Enterprise in a more junior role in Engineering, rotated out, and then returned as CEO.
I’m digging in on Yeoman Colt as a human female.
Colt being pulled in by the Talosians as an alternate ‘mate’ for Pike because he refused Via was a critical plot point in The Cage.
What I would like to see is a competent senior female NCO which is what Colt should be as a Yeoman on the bridge of a capital ship.
Yeoman Rand wasn’t given that opportunity in TOS, but the rating is one with oversight over the evaluation of the ship’s enlisted as well as the captain’s correspondence and administration. Like the XO, the Yeoman helps manage the ship and personnel.
TG, you’re right about Colt and CAGE, I wasn’t thinking.
Every time I see Hunter as PIKE, I cannot help but remember Hunter cast as Jesus in “The Greatest Story Ever Told” so miscast as Jesus. Well cast as PIKE.
Nhan stayed on Discovery so I’m sure she’ll be in season 3 of that show but it’s unlikely that she’ll be part of Pike’s crew unless she goes with Georgiou when she travels back in time.
Spock, I think Nhan went with Discovery to infinity and beyond
Capaldi…I LIKE it!
I’m okay bringing the character back, as long as they are portrayed by Debbie Allen.
They are listening to the fans. They have learned that they need to bring their A-game. We will have a Dr. Boyce….or we nerds will boycecott Star Trek forever!!!
“or we nerds will boycecott Star Trek forever!”
I see what you did there.
Nhan went to the future on the Discovery
I think its perfect casting. How about a younger Commodore Decker?
Yes
Yes! Great idea!!
Sharma was the show’s weak link, so no. But Combs as Boyce? HELL, YES.
I don’t know that he really fits the role– still would love Bob Odenkirk or Peter Capaldi! Would love to see Combs play somebody though, maybe a descendent of Shran!
Yes, I prefer him to be a descendant of Shran too! Great minds and all of that. ;)
I thought the writing of Landry was weak, but I liked Rekha Sharma quite well. She did what she could to bring authenticity to a tough-as-nails stereotype.
Tough as nails, but also not very Star Trek. She didn’t come from the Mirror Universe, but she sure acted like it.
John Hoyt, strangely enough, was only 60 years old at the filming of “The Cage.” He looks older, and Combs is 65. Nearly perfect for a show that begins just after Season 2 of Discovery.
May not be likely, but it sure would be cool.
Yeah but 60 fifty years ago was a lot older than 65 today.
I’d love to see Jeffrey Combs return, but I’m not really seeing him as Dr. Boyce. His distinctive voice just seems too different from what we heard in The Cage.
I don’t think it’s important to try to ape the original actors too much– Peck doesn’t really sound like Spock, Romijn isn’t really that reminiscent of Majel. But I agree he’s probably not right. I’d loooove him to play Shran’s son!
Even Mount said his Pike is nothing like Hunter’s Pike, they just look a bit a like and why he was chosen, but they sound and act completely different from each other.
We’re talking about characters from one episode from 50 years ago. No one is really going to care they get them completely down, just a fair resemblance and even that is really not that important either.
Hahahaha Tiger, “No one is really going to care”
whereas I imagine a number of the Disgruntled Types will care wayyy more than is strictly necessary.
Here’s hoping for your prediction to be true!
LOL, I don’t know what I was thinking when I said that. Maybe I’m coming down with the Coronavirus!!
I think the MAJORITY won’t care because honestly the he had ten minutes of screen time in one episode. But yes the hardcore are going to make their business to care lol.
I guess this is blasphemy but I really don’t care about Boyce at all. Never remotely intrigued by him because as I just said it was one episode with two or three scenes, which in the current timeline happened several years ago already. He doesn’t have to be on the ship at all now. I would be happier if they just brought in a younger McCoy to replace him or a new doctor entirely. So if they do bring back that character I’m not bothered who it is.
“No one is really going to care…”, can I live in your universe?
Only if you bring snacks.
Actually, Peck’s voice is much closer to Nimoy’s than Quinto’s. I thought he was OK in the role. But then we saw him with the classic bowl cut and he just didn’t look all that right. But he did capture mannerisms and the voice was good.
Yes, he’s more Nimoy-like than Quinto, but he is still not very reminiscent of Nimoy.
To be fair, Quinto could have done a better job with the role, but the writing was terrible. Before ST09 came out, I was already thinking Quinto would be great as a younger Spock, and he does even have the potential to sound more like Nimoy. There were hints of it in that first movie, but they had him talking too much, as if he were more Data than Spock. I think they’re doing that a bit less with Peck, so it helps, but Quinto was really done an injustice by the writers.
Wasn’t one of those writers Kutzman himself though?
Probably. Whoever wrote Spock in the KT just doesn’t understand that he’s meant to be calm and concise. Instead we get a Spock that is exceedingly locquacious, which is even played up for laughs just like Data was. And it’s not just a poor understanding of the character… Think about STID, when Spock is walking with Kirk before he and Khan board the Vengeance. That scene not only had Spock speaking at length, but it was used for ham-fisted and unnecessary exposition. That’s just bad writing. I get why they made Spock more emotional too, but it really didn’t help his characterization when coupled with all this dialogue. Peck, so far, seems to be toned down in comparison, so I see him as an improvement, but it all comes down to the writing. If it happens to be Kurtzman’s fault, then I just hope he’ll have the wisdom by now to let some better writers do their thing.
Ashley, I think one thing that you (and many fans) are missing is that the Kelvin universe doesn’t include EXACTLY the same characters.
That is an alternate universe, which allowed them to create new characters. Now, you might say “they didn’t understand what made those characters appealing” which I think is possible, but I think they made those characters exactly the way they wanted them to be: to appeal to a wider audience.
Peck’s Spock was written and cast to appeal to the more core Trek audience, I think.
I’m not missing that fact, and nothing I’ve said conflicts with it. The reason Spock should be concise is because he’s intelligent, and is usually conversing with other intelligent people, and doesn’t need to explain things at length to get the point across. In the STID scene I mentioned, the exposition came out like Spock was either insecure and needed to explain his line of reasoning, or felt like Kirk wasn’t smart enough to grasp his reasoning and motivations. Either way is terrible writing and characterization, and making changes to the character doesn’t excuse it. Even worse, that kind of exposition isn’t even about the characters, while still doing them disservice. It’s ultimately about dumbing things down for the audience, which is right down there with phrases like ‘super ice cube’ and ‘red matter’. Anyway, my point wasn’t even that the characters had changed, it’s that they changed in a bad way because of bad writing, and that’s not really the fault of any of the actors.
@ashley
You’re still not acknowledging that it’s a different universe, and thus a different character. He doesn’t need to be the same as Nimoy’s Spock.
You can fault the writing all you want– but for what they intended (a more mass-appealed version of Star Trek) the writing was quite good.
The issue is that you WANTED it to be like the 1960s version of Trek, and like it or not, that’s not what it was ever going to be.
I like both of their performances for the mere fact that they didn’t try to ape Nimoy. I think they both understood (along with Abrams and the producers of the 2009 series) that trying to copy the original cast would be a losing effort.
Well, maybe except for Karl Urban…
Star Trek fans love them some Jeffrey Combs! :)
Honestly I don’t care if they have a Boyce or not, but if they do that would be GREAT!!
If not, I’m still rooting for being an descendant of Shran. Andorians have not nearly been as interesting as they were on Discovery like they were on Enterprise.
I certainly don’t like the enhanced artificial voicing they’re giving the Andorians in Discovery, but they haven’t had much that was interesting to say at all, in contrast with Shran.
I want INTERESTING Andorians!
I’m not familiar with “The Cage” but I remember Shran from Enterprise. He was an interesting character.
Shran was great! Definitely one of the biggest stand outs on that show and has become iconic in his own right.
You should definitely watch The Cage though if you ever have time. If nothing else it really explains all the events that happened in the Discovery episode ‘If Memory Serves’ from last season and really give insight into Pike (it was the ONLY insight we had of Pike for 50 years lol).
Let’s have back Shran himself back in a one-off role. Why can’t Andorians be long-lived like Vulcans?
Yeah nothing stops them frankly. We still know so little about Andorians even though they been around forever. Enterprise was the only show that really dealt with them.
My answer… Because it seems that pretty much all the Trek aliens will have three times the life span of humans. Only Kes’ people had short ones. I actually wish we had more “diversity” in the Trek aliens. Until DS9 I always thought Klingons had a shorter average life span than humans.
And I actually kind of like that: I love the idea that lifespan is actually one area biologically where humans are inferior to most other races in the galaxy. I think that’s interesting.
That’s something i’ve considered that, and given his many roles in other series’, nothing to say he can’t play Shran AND a different recurring character!
How about give a new actor a chance
There are going to be plenty of new actors one way or the other. And chances are they will probably get a ‘known’ actor for some of these new roles if its Combs or not.
Not necessarily. Ethan Peck was not exactly a star when he was cast as Spock.
No, I just mean SOME roles may go to a more known actor like Mount and Bomijn and they weren’t A-list stars, but certainly known. Actually I never heard of Mount personally until he did Inhumans which was a few years ago now. I never even heard of Hell on Wheels lol. This is the first real role I seen him act in since Inhumans was a non-speaking part.
But like I said it will have roles for new actors just like every Trek show and as we saw on Picard with Evan Evegora, but most of the main actors on that show are well known if not super famous.
I’ll be sure and let Patty Duke, who played Helen Keller, know that you’re not really acting unless you have a speaking part.
You don’t have to be snarky dude lol. I only meant I never heard the guy actually speak before until I saw him on Discovery. I’m well aware you’re still acting if you don’t talk and multiple people have won or nominated for awards for it. Although I don’t know who Patty Duke is (but do know Helen Keller).
I think the core cast beyond these three could wind up being largely uknowns, or small stars. Maybe a big name for a recurring role, but between Mount (a bonafide series lead star), Romijn, and Peck (who likely had a lot of negotiating leverage)– and all the big FX– they’ll probably want to keep the cost of the cast down a bit.
Besides, they don’t NEED stars at this point. The fandom clearly wanted this show, and responded overwhelmingly positive to Mount’s Pike, so the audience is built in. They don’t necessarily need to cast a name as the doctor or the security chief to get eyeballs.
So when I dream cast Bob Odenkirk as Boyce, I don’t actually think it will happen, sadly.
I agree. I was only commenting to someone who said other actors can take these roles, which they can, but its no guarantees either way.
If so, then cast a lot better than we’ve seen to date. The younger gen on PICARD are pretty hideous, or at least not good enough to elevate terrible material.
Patrick Stewart used to have the charisma to elevate terrible material. He made the mediocre and crappy TNG episodes watchable. Sadly, he seems to have lost that skill with age if his work on Picard has anything to say about it.
Got to disagree with you there kmart.
I really like the actors playing Picard’s new crew.
The Romulan siblings were pretty awful except in the later episodes, but that was the writing and the EPs. The EPs seemed to love their performances and had asked for more based on the “Wasn’t Peyton List great?!” comments they made repeatedly on the Deadline podcasts.
Rios is brilliant, and his performance was charismatic as hell. Soji was great. Even Narek’s performance was strong, even if he didn’t have the best written character.
I was REALLY surprised though, that Jeri Ryan was so good. As much as I liked her on VOY (my favorite character) i never suspected she could carry a modern drama in that role.
Nor did I ever expect her to show up when the series was announced. That was very much a case of the producers giving me something I didn’t know I wanted.
Just to clarify … I don’t know the actor names, but the Han Solo kind of guy and the older woman were both good .. it was that I didn’t find any of the young ones good at all (main synth girl and the roms.)
I thought Isa Briones was great. Allison Pill’s character was underwritten, but Evan Evagora was wonderful, and I take issue with you calling the 53 year old Michelle Hurd as “the older woman.” :)
On that subject though, that more older actresses like Hurd and Romijn–who is 47– have starring roles in major shows is nice to see.
I liked that Picard had more international casting, even if almost all the actors were cast from LA.
I still believe strongly that Trek could benefit from reaching further as The Expanse does.
I don’t know The Expanse, but I would love them to cast international. Those different schools of acting could develop synergetic effects.
What a great point odradek!
It’s not just having an international cast, but doing the casting work outside LA that seems to make a difference. American casting directors are going to look for a particular acting techniques$
Picard has actors from outside the US (Pill, Treadway, ) have been working in the US and adapted to that school of acting.
The Expanse, by contrast, has cast a lot of the actors through Canadian casting directors even for international actors. There definitely is a bit of a different style, especially for the Asian actors.
Please use Arex.
Too soon. Arex was an Ensign in TOS season “4,” which is a good 12ish years after where Strange New Things is picking up.
Arex could be the Harry Kim of the 23rd century: always stuck at being an ensign ;-)
I always imagined Arex’s species as long lived. He can take his time with each rank. He will be an admiral in the ST: Picard timeframe.
Depending on when the show takes place in the timeline, I hope Cornwell shows up. Some of the best scenes involve her. I’d love to see a therapy scene between her and Pike regarding the Talos incident and him getting over that major incident in his life.
I’m guessing the show is going to take place after we saw them in Discovery. I don’t see the point of doing the show before then when we already seen a lot of development after the fact. But that doesn’t stop them from doing flashbacks either.
In the Variety interview, Peck said he was looking forward to playing Spock following the transformation that took place through Discovery.
As his and Goldsman’s interview responses seem highly messaged, that sounds like a clear signal that they are moving forward from S2 of Discovery.
But anything can happen in Trek, especially as Spock & Pike have already been introduced to timey-wimey stuff.
I read that article too but completely forgot he said that. But it would make no sense to do it pre-Discovery because then it’s only a limited amount of time before they have to run into events in that show or they would have to eventually do a time jump of some kind. And we would lose all the development we seen already.
I guess some people want to see the crew get together at the beginning and all of that like the other shows but its not really necessary and they can do stuff like that in flashbacks if they really wanted to like showing Pike and Number One’s introduction. But I want to see where the universe will be after the section 31/Klingon War stuff and build up to everything we know so far. I don’t want a prequel within a prequel lol. And especially now that Discovery isn’t coming back to this century. It is funny they are basically taking over for that show in this era now. ;)
On the other hand, the official announcement said that “Strange New Worlds” would follow the adventures of Pike & co. “in the decade before Kirk boarded the USS Enterprise.”
“Where No Man Has Gone Before” is usually dated to 2365, so that could put SNW as early as 2355, a year before the start of Discovery. Perhaps we’ll see what Pike & co. were doing on their mission during the Klingon War.
(I don’t expect that to happen — it would be easier and less confusing just to proceed after the disappearance of the USS Discovery in 2258 — but the promo language does allow for other possibilities.)
In “The Menagerie,” which took place in Season One of TOS, Spock says the events of Talos IV took place “eleven years ago.”
It’s occurred to me that the decision to put Discovery and Burnham’s history into deep storage would provide a justice to send everyone who was on the Enterprise at the end of Discovery S2 very, very far away.
There wouldn’t be crew rotations before recommending the exploratory mission, and they’d be sent yet further from known space.
God, that would be great
I would love to see Jeffrey Combs, regardless of the role.
Jeffery Combs has played some great roles in Star Trek over the years, I -really- hope they offer him the part of the ship’s doctor. Having him as a regular character and seeing what he as an actor brings to such a role will be really good to watch.
Jeffrey Combs is as much Star Trek as any one actor (aside from Shatner/Nimoy/Kelley) can be. I would love to see him as Dr. Boyce.
Personally I would love to see Jeffrey Combs as an Andorian! I WANT ANDORIANS
He was an Andorian on Enterprise. He was Shran the Andorian.
Ninja, I think Marja gets that. And wants Combs to return as another Andorian!
I agree with Spock Jenkins…. They need to bring on Rachael Ancheril as Commander Nhan. I think she would only add to what’s going to be a strong cast. As for Dr. Boyce, I think Jeff Goldblum would be good in that roll.
Nhan stayed on Discovery. We will probably be seeing more of her, but not on this show.
Yeah Nhan isn’t going anywhere. She’ll be on Discovery next season AFAIK (or why bring her in the first place?). We’ll be seeing her way sooner than anyone on the Pike show.
Beyond Boyce, who would you want for Jose Tyler and J.M. Colt?
I wonder whether we’ll find out whether Jose is any relation to Ash. (“It’s a fairly common name, sir.”)
Ash shows up on the Enterprise unexpectedly with a paper-thin cover “No, my name is Jose.”
Jose Tyler: well, how about someone at least partially Hispanic (which the original with his redheaded Irish looks, wasn’t particularly)…young and nerdy…Jake T. Austin or Carlos Valdes.
JM Colt: young spunky female, maybe a bit tomboyish, any race. Amandla Stenberg (Rue from The Hunger Games).
Colt needs to be human (to fit the plot points in The Cage), but young and spunky not so much.
Yeoman on the bridge of a capital ship is a high status rating for an experienced NCO. I’d like to see Colt show us a competent senior enlisted that’s a complement to Romjin’s Number One.
Setting aside that I have no interest in any of these characters, how about Dave Bautista for Boyce, Helen Mirren for Jose Tyler, and Deep Roy for J.M. Colt….
wow
Come on now, think outside the box….
How about Chris Doohan as a young Scotty?
Why would we be dealing with Scotty?
Because Chris Doohan is way too old to be playing “young” anybody?
YEah I just looked, Doohan 60 years now~! Wow, looks great for his age though.
Maybe he has a son who looks like his granddad ;-)
How about no?
How about Pike, Spock, and Number One. No one else.
Pretty sure it takes more than three people to run a ship. Even Star Trek III had more than three after the ship was automated.
Yeah, and the Trek universe just won’t be the same until 2nd Lt. Biff Johnson in starship waste management gets his own episode. This series isn’t likely to have more then 13 episodes a season, Nobody is going to waste time on seriously inconsequential supporting cast ….
Where does Gary Mitchell fall into this timeline? Is he a member of the Enterprise crew during Pike’s command?
I don’t think so. I belive he is at the academy at one of these classes that Jim Kirk teaches.
He and Kirk were good friends. It wasn’t said specifically but it really feels and sounds like Mitchell was brought on board by Kirk when he took command.
It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.
Don’t care. It’s not the Gary Mitchell Show.
I think these shows will be much better when you stop commenting.
Like the dude, but this seems pretty contrived to me.
But it would be a certain kind of justice.
Combs was reportedly booked to play Shran as a member of the bridge crew for season 5 of Enterprise before it was cancelled.
I could definitely see him making Boyce work.
But I could also see a successful recasting of someone unexpected and completely new.
Agreed
Confirmed. I read one of the things Coto was looking to do in Season 5 was make Shran a regular character. The only way to do that is to put him on the ship.
How is this contrived to you? Please elaborate your point here.
No problem, dude. It’s like because from a few tweets on the internet, all of a sudden we see an article that says tons of fans are recommending this, yet I don’t think any of us here heard about this today until we read this article? So that’s what I mean about this being a bit contrived. Seems more like orchestrated internet group-think versus an actual groundswell of fans pulling for this.
I have no problem with this though — I have met him and he’s a nice guy and a good actor. So I can get behind this.
Pretty disappointing we haven’t had a white male Doctor in Star Trek since McCoy, representation is sorely needed, the Doctor in Voyager didn’t count, he was just a hologram. /s
I don’t understand what you’re going on about. Every Star Trek doctor has a diverse background. They don’t have to be a straight white male to do their job.
It’s sarcasm, Ninja.
But I can’t tell whether he’s actually annoyed about diversity and thus attempting an ironic reversal, or is mocking those who don’t like diversity. That’s the world we live in now, because there are people who would legitimately say stuff like this, sarcastically, to make a point about how badly white people are treated.
The Doctor in Voyager was still a white male played by a white male actor. But yeah, Hollywood has such a history of mistreating white male actors over their long history. They have been so underrepresented in Hollywood.
I suspect that folks aren’t catching that /s stands for sarcasm Lukas.
I’ve heard that texting is on the wane with Covid, but that was fast ;)
Did no one replying here catch the /s of the op?
Oh, I thought the /s was some sort of fan fiction reference.
>;>}
I hope we see Amrit Kaur as Thira Sidhu, the young engineering officer we saw assigned to Pike’s Enterprise in the Short Treks episode “Ask Not”
Seconded. She was great.
I hope we will see her on board,too. I wpuld also like to see the crewmember again who lost her captaincy over the tribble incident.
Me! Please!
We love Combs as the many characters he has played in Star Trek. But nothing made by Secret Hideout/Alex Kurtzman feels or looks like Star Trek, and I think Combs feels the same way. Any appearances in this dystopian “star trek” imitation will soil his character. Picard is already destroyed.
So now you’re going to speak for Jeffrey Combs? Hate to break it to you, but most Trek alum don’t have the same backwards attachment to what they think Star Trek is that a lot of the toxic fandom does. If offered a role, I would be surprised if he didn’t happily accept.
Even if he hated Discovery, he’d probably accept.
I hope you watched the DS9 doc where Andrew Robinson read aloud fan letters telling him that Garak was awful and DS9 was too dystopian and he laughed his butt off.
I’ll have to agree. No matter what fans may (rightly >;>}) think of Kurt2man’5 Star Trek, actors, and directors for that matter (you know who I mean), have no qualms in working on it. They don’t care, it’s a job. And even if they cared, it’s a job. And, if they care to that degree, which I doubt, they can do more to affect it by being part of it than not. The best part of ST: Picard were the actors (and some directors): they saved that show from being incredibly and consistently bad to make it just sporadically bad.
I agree with this as well. No matter how fans may feel about these shows personally, you can’t assume actors feel the same way as you or even care, most just want to work. And Star Trek is a VERY lucrative job to work for which I’m guessing most cares about first and foremost. If SMG decided she didn’t want to play Burnham anymore and they wanted to replace her, thousands of actresses would gladly do it even if they have to deal with trolls on the internet or racist comments. These days nearly every role you have to face push back of some kind now thanks to social media. Look at everyone doing Star Wars today, its no different. And yet actors are still killing themselves to be in that franchise because it brings instant fame and tons of money if you are in it long enough. In other words the positives outweigh the negatives. Even if they are considered bad shows or movies, they are still widely seen bad shows or movies.
And contrary to popular belief on Trek sites and conspiratorial filth channels like Midnight’s Edge, these shows are not widely considered to be bad shows.
No they’re not. I said this to you somewhere else, its really just in comparison to the other shows most of the time. If you look at the ratings of shows on fan sites like IMDB they are all ranked fairly well, just none of them are all super high. But from what I seen the more popular shows like TNG and TOS are ranked in the high 80s but shows like Enterprise, Voyager and Discovery are ranked in the 70s. Its not great but none are horrible either. They just aren’t liked as much as the other shows but they are ALL liked to a degree.
But that’s why its hard to have a conversation on these boards. My thoughts on Discovery is well known at this point, but I always maintained more people liked it than hated it, always, even when I hated it lol. You can say that about EVERY Star Trek show. But most people want to argue the shows they liked as ‘popular’ but then want to argue the ones they didn’t as ‘hated’ although if you look across ratings boards that doesn’t bare out at all. What’s funny is there are people here convinced TNG isn’t that liked or popular because THEY don’t personally like it, which is clearly absurd. But that’s the problem, bias does get in the way or reality at times.
I am beginning to sound like a broken record at this point but I want Robert Patrick as Commodore April.
I like Discovery, I really do, and Season 3 is of a lot of interest to me. But I’m liking Picard and [the idea of] Strange New Worlds SO MUCH better. I’m happy we cut our space legs on Discovery for two seasons in order to get the kinks worked out but damn, Discovery is starting to feel like it was kind of a mistake now that some Star Trek shows that feel a lot more familiar are finally in production.
Well they made a lot of mistakes with Discovery but I think the reboot will do the show wonders IF its good (I know that can still be a tall order ;)).
I do think they probably think it was a mistake to make it a prequel to TOS at least and why SNW has essentially replaced it and its now in the far flung future. I think there would’ve been waaaay less whining about it if it was set in the 25th century and not the 23rd. People would’ve still found things to complain about (Klingons #1 ;)) but not at the level it got first season. I still think it can eventually be a really popular show on its own, but the mis-steps has hurt it. Probably no different than what Enterprise went through early on, but this show was smart to make changes much faster at least.
It clearly wasn’t a mistake, because it led directly to SNW.
Similar logic… The fire that destroyed my mom’s house was not a mistake because she is VASTLY better off financially and even in other ways I won’t get into here because of it. This is not made up. My mom’s home was burned down in the Camp fire.
Do you want my sympathy for a bad analogy? I won’t expound on why, because it would be terribly insensitive.
You are the one that made the bad analogy. I was just pointing that out. Not asking for sympathy.
Your argument/logic would be useful as a defense for bombing Japan with nukes since it led to peaceful uses of nuclear power. Does getting an unproven unseen PIKE series justify having to sit through PICARD and DSC? No — and it shouldn’t.
What CBS should have done is give PIKE to an outside team with a genuinely creative agenda. If the geniuses — and I use that word deliberately — behind UPLOAD were doing a TREK series, it would have heart and brains instead of lens flares and gimmicky surprises.
I mean the show on its own clearly made mistakes, regardless if other things were created around it. That’s what is being discussed. And its not a knock against the show, EVERY Trek show made mistakes, none of them were perfect as we know. It’s just the degree of the mistakes that were made and that’s mostly subjective depending on how you feel about the show personally I guess. But the creators clearly know many were, hence why SNW is now replacing that show in its timeline and sent DIS somewhere else entirely.
Frankly, i’ve always thought a prequel to TOS was really the best choice. They could have executed it better, but it’s still my preferred time period for new Trek stories, and am thrilled they’ll continue to explore it on SNW while DSC goes into the far flung future.
I mean, it’s pretty telling that everyone gripes about prequels while pretty much being universally excited about a Pike series.
The Pike series in all honesty feels like the first prequel announced where half the fan base didn’t groan at it lol. Enterprise and especially Discovery had a lot of naysayers from the beginning but that was also because they were completely new entities (and by the time Discovery rolled around a lot of people were just itching for a post-Nemesis story after 15 years of Enterprise and then the Kelvin movies).
Pike works BECAUSE he’s not only a known and iconic character but because yeah people simply fell in love with the character on Discovery. Trust me, BEFORE Discovery there was still tons of push back of doing a Pike prequel. I know that because I actually posted the idea on Reddit a year ago (which is more TNG era friendly as most people there are a bit younger) about a Pike prequel and a lot more people seem torn over the idea. Not completely dismissive of it but not begging for it either.
And I count myself in that boat. If 18 months ago you asked me what if I had to choose a Section 31 show vs a Pike show, I would’ve chose the Section 31 show, no question. Because it at least sounded different and not just there to hit nostalgia beats for the next five season. But now knowing what we know its the complete opposite lol. I couldn’t be more excited about this show now (while I couldn’t be less excited about S31), but pre-Discovery I would’ve had a very different take on it even if I eventually could’ve came around to it.
To be fair, I think the reason Discovery was welcomed with groans was the concept of Spock having an adoptive sister. That rankled a lot of fans right there. The 10 years earlier thing may have rankled some but not like the sister thing.
My choice for an era to explore is the post TUC era. That’s one that is wide open for stories.
Sure that but I think a lot of things we talked about here to death. But I was on this board the day Discovery setting was announced and it was VERY divided. The article is still up of course for people to read, but the comments section basically went the people who loved the idea REALLY loved it and the people who hated it REALLY hated it and I don’t think that’s changed much since. ;)
With you on the post TUC thing, have felt that way since opening night of GENERATIONS. And right now it would be more appropriate than ever, because TSFS/TUC political paranoia feel in Federation is about as close a parallel as we could get to what is going on here now (though admittedly the Fed Prez is at least 20,000 leagues above ours with respect to ethics and doing the right thing.)
“I do think they probably think it was a mistake to make it a prequel to TOS at least ”
We differ on that theory. I don’t know for sure what they think now but if that was their takeaway then I really don’t think they understood what the true problems with Discovery truly were. Which is another problem in and of itself.
If that were the case then it would still be in its original setting then. The fact they already said they plan to keep it in the 32nd century implies that. And I don’t think that’s the ONLY reason. As I said many times, they probably just wanted the show to create its own canon without a lot of major restrictions and have the freedom to do whatever they want with it.
The made it clear they are keeping the spore drive (which I don’t care how you slice it IS a major canon violation) is more proof of that. If so that also goes to my point, they don’t want to keep to certain limitations this era is suppose to have, with DIS at least. And they really don’t want to give that thing up lol.
“If that were the case then it would still be in its original setting then. ”
I disagree. It was moved forward because of all the mistakes they made. That was not admitting it should not have been a prequel to begin with. If the time frame was really a mistake they would have moved the show even if it was doing everything CBS wanted it to do AND regardless of fan input. I’m convinced had they done it right from the start there would be no time frame move. Further, if they really wanted to create their own canon they would have just made it an actual reboot instead of… Well… Whatever it was they did.
LOL, this is starting to feel like hair splitting at this point. We’re actually saying the same things here, just in a different way. Obviously its not a mistake to put a show in this time period, hence SNW, but CLEARLY they had to feel it was a mistake for Discovery itself in some fashion or they wouldn’t have moved it. I mean most of us thought the idea of moving the show that far ahead was ludicrous when it was first rumored. Even though many of us had issues with the show no one thought that they would actually move it to another century or NEEDED to move it at all.
But of course if they did it right FROM the start, then no they wouldn’t have to move it as you said. But they clearly WANT a more advance show, hence all the advance technology and look of the show. That’s what I’m saying, they didn’t want to be confined to the actual era of the show took place in because of just retconing those things like a lot of us assumed they were going to do (and I would’ve been fine with), they just moved it instead because they WANT to keep it more advanced, hence the mistake of having it there in the first place. You understand what I mean now?
Although I have a feeling they will still make many of the same mistakes with SNW because they just can’t help themselves lol but we’ll see.
They moved the show to the far future because they felt it would free them from the mistakes they made when originally. But placing the show 10 years before TOS was not a mistake. The mistakes were Burnham’s Spock connection the retconning of canon to conform to their version and the general bad production design that looked like the ship belonged in the KU or post Picard. These are errors that should have been rectified early on but weren’t. It aired that way anyway. There really was nothing wrong with the time frame. It was all the other things that were messed up.
But, moving the show to the far future does not free them from their mistakes. They are still a ship from the 23rd century that looks like it belongs in the 25th century stuck in the 32nd century. They will never shake that. And the other issues were the shotty writing and plotting of course. But that is all old news.
Yes it WAS a mistake if they never planned to HONOR it as a true prequel to TOS, which is what we’re talking about.
Both me and you have said this MANY times over in the past, Discovery most likely was just meant to be a reboot of the prime timeline. Fuller had it in his head he wanted to retool the entire universe in general and just envision a very modern show with it feeling as modern and high tech as the Kelvin movies did. The difference being the Kelvin movies made clear that was a reboot, even if still not a complete one. Fuller and company designed it as a reboot but never said the words because they didn’t want to scare off the loyalists but clearly never had any real intentions to be a TRUE prequel to TOS the same way Rogue One felt like a prequel to ANH. They were just going to do what they wanted but clearly assumed everyone was going to get on board once they saw how cooler the Klingons would look and bigger and sleeker the ships would be with a very engaging story.
Well that clearly didn’t work out as planned, right?
So here we are. So yes it WAS a mistake because they never intended for it to be a true prequel to TOS but instead a reboot and why a 23rd century ship looks like it belongs in the 25th century because it was just done to update the entire universe in general. They tried correcting it a bit in season 2 but Discovery is always going to look out of place. I mean it’s hilarious watching Discovery and Enterprise side by side together. NOTHING about these ships suggest they were made by the same organization, at least not in the same era. I saw someone make this analogy before, the Enterprise looks like a 1965 Mustang while Discovery looks like a 2017 Expedition SUV but we have to pretend Ford made both cars in the same year. Discovery looks so off brand and different because as was said it was never suppose to follow traditional TOS.
And as I said multiple times now, they clearly aren’t moving the show into the future just to ‘free them from their mistakes’ they are just moving it to not make anymore mistakes lol. In other words, what’s done is done now, but they can just set it in a new timeline and go how they want and set the universe around Discovery and NOT Discovery around the universe which is what prequels are suppose to do. But they know the longer they stayed in the 23rd century it was only going to make things worse, not better, especially if they wanted to keep things like the spore drive. If you don’t want to get rid of something that belongs in the 25th century and not the 23rd, then clearly it was a mistake to put your show there, right?
Hopefully SNW will just start off on a better foot in general. And so far from at least what we got in Discovery, they are. But DIS was just a different entity created by someone who left before the first episode was made and they had to make do with what they had. But clearly no one had any big interest to keep DIS where it was because it was never going to convince everyone it really belonged there unless you killed off Burnham and destroyed the ship along with her and start over…which according to Starfleet records they did lol. That says it all. ;)
At this point I think it difficult to decide if they really intended it to be a true prequel, a reboot or what. So I’m not prepared to be as sure as you are regarding their initial intentions. The only thing we really know is the first concept was an anthology series. Jumping time frames each season. We know that concept was axed. We know there was a lot of turnover in producer staff. So the intent very well could have changed 4 times. Based on what we ended up with it looks to me like the intent was to make a show set in the days before Kirk’s Enterprise. To stand alone and not really lead into TOS. But… They created links as safety nets in the event of the show under performing. The lack of performance meant changing the show from what they originally intended it to do.
Just my theory but there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff we just are not aware of yet.
Is it possible that “Strange New Worlds” was in their plan all along, but they knew they couldn’t *start* there?
Maybe part of the reasoning to a prequel was to be able to back-door pilot a Pike-led series.
We do know that Fuller wanted an anthology, and the studio insisted on setting the show pre-TOS. I’m probably overthinking it, but fun to think about.
Possible but given the evidence I’d say that extremely unlikely. Go back to season 1 of Discovery. Had that show performed to CBS’ wishes there would be no Enterprise, Pike or Spock in season 2 for the fans to love to the point where SH gave them their own show.
And this, my friends, is why we say ‘Hindsight is 2020’. Especially in this year :)
While CBS and Viacom were split, it was probably not possible to do a Pike/Spock series, especially with the Star Trek movies still potentially happening. With CBS/Viacom remerged, and the Star Trek movies looking more and more in doubt, and the favorable reception of Anson Mount and Ethan Peck, this series became possible.
I don’t think we can assume that at all. It’s possible, but it’s an even bigger leap in logic than wondering if they were planning a Pike series.
I’d love to see Jeffrey Combs on Trek again.
As for Sharma, sorry, but Landry was one of the least interesting characters on Discovery; there’s no need to follow her up with a twin sister unless said sister was mentioned in dialogue.
It’s funny but I enjoyed the MU Landry more than I did the prime version of her, although they both lasted about as long. ;)
I still like John Glover for Bones Boyce, but we’ll see. They could bring back Landry as her twin sister then some Romulans (which are covered so we can’t see what they look like) can attack her and she can start having fighting abilities she never had before and kill them all and then go look for her sister Helen.
Wait, that’s silly.
John Glover should play Federation president Clamp.
I don’t have any burning need for Boyce to be a part of the series. This new show will take place a number of years after “The Cage,” so it’s fine by me if they simply say that a new doctor is coming onboard.
But if it WAS Combs, I’d be cool with that.
The blond haired helmsmsn in The Cage was actually a named character called Jose Tyler. What became of him?
Eaten by Gorn. I read that somewhere. Is it canon? Probably.
Was traded for two pounds of dilithium with Orion traders. He disappeared shortly after transporting over to the OSS Sodomy Geese.
I’m always looking for a new Combs character! And he definitely needs to be added to one of the ST series.
I don’t see any visual similarities..Sorry.
Now, if only they would greenlight an adaptation of New Frontier
I really like the idea of adapting Trek-lit for streaming.
However, New Frontier has never grabbed me.
It’s unfortunate because Peter David advocated for such a long time to be permitted to create a new ship and crew that could grow and progress. I saw him speak at a con in the 90s and he was quite passionate about the project.
It did however lay the foundation for other new shared series across the eras, and for the Relaunch novels to be mapped out through a virtual writers room, with editors as the equivalent of showrunners.
Picard established that the Relaunch universe isn’t Prime from at least 2379 when Hugh died in the books, but there is a great deal of wonderful creative material in them that could be drawn from. CBS retains the rights to all tie-in fiction so there are no negotiations with the authors or publishers needed.
By the way, my first choice to be brought to screen among the Trek-lit crews would be Vanguard.
There’s no chance in hell that the Chief Medical Office will be Boyce with the current trend of diversity.
Does Boyce have to be white to be Boyce? Human certainly, but is his race his defining characteristic?
Wouldn’t the demeanor and character be more critical?
For example, I can think of a few Indigenous actors from Canada and the US who could pull it off very well, and, at least to me, would in their own way look as much like the original actor as Combs does.
Just saying.
If it is a reboot, change it up all you want. But if you want it to be canon, then it is best you keep the parts the same race. If they feel compelled make up for past attitudes, do it with the new characters. Personally I don’t even notice this unless if is done to an absurd level.
Sincerely ML31, we’ve got folks on this board making a credible case for Tyler to be Latino based on his personal name, even though the original actor was blond and very Caucasian in appearance.
Could not an excellent older Indigenous actor like Graham Greene take this on?
He is an Oscar nominee among numerous other credits and awards. Greene also has played major Shakespearean roles at the Stratford Festival and could provide that Shakespearean balance to the cast. He’s never let himself be typecast, and I can see him balancing Mount’s Pike very well.
All to say that Graham Greene would have my vote.
In fact, he’d be very overqualified, but I’d hope that he might be willing to take on a regular role in an aspirational at a Toronto or Mississauga studio relatively close to Six Nations.
I glossed over a lot of that Tyler discussion because quite frankly I didn’t care. Such things are not important to me.
Hey, white or not, we could still find out Boyce is non-binary after all :)
And that’s a problem, why?
Would love Peter capaldi to play the Dr Boyce
Just a test post. My comments on multiple threads during the past few days have automatically been grabbed by the filter for some reason, never to be seen again. Moderators, can you help?
“What characters and/or actors do you want to be part of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds?”
Ok, the filter is still randomly swallowing my comments, for some reason. Let me break up my suggestions into separate comments to see what happens:
Jeffrey Combs in any significant role (it doesn’t have to be Boyce).
Bruce Greenwood as a villain.
DS9’s Casey Biggs, perhaps as a Starfleet captain or admiral.
Armie Hammer as Kirk, assuming a way can be found for him to appear Shatner-sized on-screen (Hammer is a very tall guy).
Cut off his legs?
I rather have an alien character as the CMO.
I want to see more inclusivity. The problem with these new Trek shows is that they’re not nearly inclusive enough. More lens flares would be a plus, and more science fantasy and cheesecake stuff for no reason.
LOL… I see what you did here. Funny but there are those who will not think so.
Like the sarcasm you did there but you have a point Jake Sisko. A very good point.
Afaiac these shows should be more inclusive of Manny Coto, but NOT GONNA HAPPEN!
John Noble…
If the new series is set PRIOR TO the Discovery series in the timeline, I see no barr to Rekha Sharma playing Commander Landry in any new series (predating Discovery). Has no one else seen this opening for Ms. Sharma?
Y’know …. whatever happens, I hope they include a role in the first episode for Laurel Goodwin. That’d be a pretty nice thing to do.
“Nice thought, but the chasm between what fans want and what the studios want make the chances of it happening slim to none…. ”
Nope, Mr Combs… This very series is exactly what the fans want and the SNW teaser openly embraces this idea as a marketing strategy. So if enough fan want this to happen, it will happen…
I keep my fingers crossed. Better choice than that awful John Glover idea that’s floating around…
He does have a point that fans and the studio doesn’t always see eye to eye. Fans got what they wanted by this show even happening at all.
This idea is really fascinating but I’m not familiar with that character. I watched TOS and don’t remember “The Cage” as well.
Strange New Worlds is what Star Trek should have been the entire time. I kind of wished Discovery never happened.
“Strange New Worlds is what Star Trek should have been the entire time. I kind of wished Discovery never happened.”
Yes, sir!
“Strange New Worlds is what Star Trek should have been the entire time. I kind of wished Discovery never happened.”
I 2nd that. But to be fair it is said with hindsight. Had they started with a Pike show I would have not been pleased as I would want new characters. The only reason I got behind this idea was because I saw Mount’s Pike performance.
What’s ironic is that without Discovery S1, who knows if any of these iterations of Star Trek would have ever got off the ground. For all we know, the franchise may have been buried for another decade. What we do know is that without S2’s Discovery portrayal of Pike, Spock and Number One – fans would not have been able to get behind Strange New Worlds.
I hear what you’re saying DeanH, but this argument (which comes up a lot) isn’t really a strong one. I’m NOT trying to put Discovery down and I have said clearly it was successful enough to want to make more, but my guess is it doesn’t matter WHAT the show was, as long as Star Trek was in the title, it was going to be successful enough to some degree when there hasn’t been a show on in over a decade. Especially on a tiny platform like AA that no one remotely cared about until Star Trek showed up.
What if for instance Picard was the first show out of the gate? Or even the Section 31 show? I think everyone will agree Picard would’ve brought huge success regardless because of the nostalgia factor. Section 31 would’ve been more controversial for sure, but guess what, they still would’ve watched it when its literally the only Star Trek show on. If a Pike show was first, I agree with many it would’ve been met with more scorn vs the excitement for it today.
But would people have watched it? Of course.
Think of ALL the people who claim to hate Discovery now and yet watch it every week. Because if you’re a big enough fan of something you are still gong to hate watch, even if its just to complain about it. Not everyone, but enough.
Again I know when I say things like this I’m trying to take the success of Discovery away, I’m not! I’m only suggesting Star Trek the brand is just a really powerful brand and it was going to bring every fan out of the woodwork because it has been awhile. But I’ll make this clear too if enough people hated the show, that may have set back plans. But they had ALWAYS planned to make other shows. Kurtzman confirmed that before Discovery started, we just didn’t realize it was going to be so soon lol.
For me though, what I wonder is if it was the success of Discovery that brought another show so quickly OR that it didn’t bring in enough people on its own? And I know people are going to hate my answer but I honestly feel it was the latter. Why? Only because not just due to all the crazy changes the show got itself but because CBS became COMPLETELY cagey about how many people are just watching the show once it did start.
BEFORE it aired, Moonves was making predictions of how many people they expected would sign up to watch the show and all of that. Once the show it premiered through its finale, complete silence. We heard they were ‘happy’ with the show, but to this day they have never thrown out one single figure of how many signed up to watch the show when months ago they were practically bragging how will it will do.
And I do remember at one point they said about 2.5 million subscribers had signed up during the first year, which was lower than their original 4 million estimate. And they still never said how many were watching the show itself and clearly it wasn’t all 2.5 million. Some on other boards were underestimating around a 1.5 million people were even watching it, if that. So that said a lot.
Now to be fair AA is doing MUCH better today and obviously the show is on Netflix which got it a higher view count worldwide. And AA now has a lot more Star Trek with Picard and Short Treks and of course just more shows in general; but its probably still lacking once you take away the Showtime component which is what pushes subscriptions.
So I truly the believe the truth is somewhere in the middle. The show was a success but I don’t believe the success they were hoping and I still don’t today just based on everything they done since with the show itself. You know the saying, if isn’t broke…
Credible arguments and I totally see your point of view – that said, it was Discovery that got green lit first and made it to the streaming world first for CBSAA! All the others followed. And it laid the groundwork of credibility for Sir Patrick who would never had been sold on a pitch for a episodic remake of TNG! For better or worse, like it or not Discovery was so far out there (much to the consternation of many) it proved to him they wanted to make, and we’re capable of doing, something COMPLETELY different and new. And without Anson Mount and Ethan Peck being cast for Discovery, one could easily argue doing a Captain Pike series with Number One and Spock MAY have never seen the light of day – at least not right now. No matter what, maybe both Picard and SNW may have gotten done anyway. I do think CBSAA would have done Lower Decks and Short Treks without Discovery, but the others? We shall never know. All we truly know is what has happened since Discovery premiered. Just a few thoughts.
Agree with your thoughts DeanH.
If the show turns out to be good it’s like finding a gold nugget in a pile of crap.
Weyoun was a true great of a character, as was Shran. I think Combs is perfect as the likeable antagonist. Much as I’d love to see him return, it would feel strange to see him as someone on ‘our’ side.
If it is after “The Cage”, assume Boyce is gone, and hire Karl Urban to be Bones. He and Spock can start hating on each other early, and Pike can crack some jokes about how he is the wrong captain to bring them together.
That’s funny. Spock and Bones are friends on TOS.
That’s a good one – and one from left field which should have been so obvious because Urban is so good in the movies. That said, I would miss Quinto, BUT I do really like Ethan as well. Hilarious that I didn’t think they could ever get someone acceptable to play Spock and somehow they have come up with two.
The irony what you said DeanH is I remember ALL the push back people were giving about even bringing Spock on this show and was suggesting it would nearly be impossible to have another actor play Spock. Some acted as if ONLY Nimoy were allowed to play the character, even though Quinto had already been the character for practically a decade.
I was NOT a supporter of Spock coming on Discovery originally but it had nothing to do with because I didn’t think another actor could play him. Fans can over think this stuff. They are still just fictional characters, if you found one actor to play the role, chances are you’re going to find another one who can do the same thing. Hundreds of actors have played Hamlet over the centuries, one of the most complicated characters to play and yet he’s played all the time by multiple actors. Spock isn’t any harder to play than that character, people are just use to the guy who played him first, that’s it.
Now of course every one seems to be celebrating Peck as Spock and all those arguments that it was almost blasphemy to have someone else play him have all been forgotten.
They would never put a Kelvin actor to play the same role, it would be too confusing, hence why every actor from Sarek to Pike himself were played by different actors away from those movies. And Urban is probably too old now to play this version. They would probably want someone around his age when he first took the role.
Ignores Dr. Mark Piper from WNMHGB, and doesn’t make sense, given you have pre-established connection with Boyce/Pike, probably strongest in the whole cast of original.
Combs is awesome but if he were to become CMO, perhaps what makes sense is that Boyce has moved on to a position at Starfleet Medical – and a new member of the Interspecies Medical Team has been assigned to the Enterprise as CMO.
so, it appears Strange New Worlds leap frogs ahead of Section 31 show production.
If true, no one here will be crying over it. ;)
Would love to see Doctor Boyce most of all, but also Jose Tyler and Yoman Colt.
Jeffery Co bs and Bruce Campbell have been personal favorites
Sarek, Spock’s father was in one episode of Star Trek – The Original Series,and I wonder if an appearance by the character Sarek
would be something that could happen? It doesn’t have to be the exact episode as the original one obviously.
Take care,
Linda🇨🇦