Jeri Ryan And Michelle Hurd Talk Twists And Turns With TNG Cast In ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Season 3

In addition to star Sir Patrick Stewart, the only two members of the main Star Trek: Picard cast carrying over into season three are Jeri Ryan and Michelle Hurd. And the pair are now talking about what’s next for Seven and Raffi and what it is like working with the Star Trek: The Next Generation cast who are joining the series for season three.

Raffi and Seven in season three

On Monday Jeri Ryan and Michelle Hurd participated in a Twitter Spaces chat to discuss season two of Picard, but they also ventured into a bit on season three. The season two finale saw a resulting and coming together of Raffi and Seven. And when asked where this relationship is headed in season three, the pair made it clear they will be as close as ever:

Michelle Hurd: Well, I think that no matter what, there’s always going to be like the deepest respect between these women… There’s a connection. There’s a shorthand. There’s acceptance and trust. I believe that that’s where Rafi will always place Seven. She believes in this person. She trusts this person, implicitly. She’s so connected and respectful of this person. And so those two women will always walk in the path camaraderie and companionship and support.

Jeri Ryan: Yeah, absolutely… I think the way Michelle put it is exactly right. I think at the very basic level, they’ll always kind of be home for each other. Regardless of what paths life takes them on, they will always sort of just be home. A safe space and a comfortable, trusted space. There’s so much respect there. There’s so much love there. And so much trust.

Jeri Ryan as Seven and Michelle Hurd as Raffi in season two finale

Twists and turns with TNG cast

Last month Paramount+ revealed LeVar Burton, Michael Dorn, Jonathan Frakes, Gates McFadden, Marina Sirtis, and Brent Spiner will all be joining Stewart in season three. Hurd and Ryan talked about what it is like bringing the TNG characters into Picard and working with these legendary actors:

Michelle Hurd: First of all, I think our Star Trek family is going to be really excited about this third season. It’s really delicious. And there are more twists and turns… Maybe fans are anticipating some twists and turns, but there’s a bunch of them there… The players who are coming to play with us–each time somebody walked on set it was like a historic moment. Everybody would come onto the soundstage and we were just so excited to welcome back these individuals. And the stories that Jeri and I get to explore are incredibly exciting and action-packed and emotional. I think it’s just going to give you guys a lot–it’s not even like easter eggs. We’re just gonna be putting some stuff straight out. It’s in your face. I think you guys will be as giddy as we were shooting it.

Jeri Ryan: And on a personal basis, because these people are my friends. I’ve known them all for years through conventions and things like that. So getting to play with these people, it was like going to work and having a play date every day. It was so much fun. So much fun!

Jeri Ryan as Seven, Michelle Hurd as Raffi and Evan Evagora as Elnor in season two finale

There is no word yet on when the third season of Star Trek: Picard will debut.


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Computer, End Program.

Lol. The best response! Season 2 was painful, cringe-worthy, amateur trash. Just bad TV. Depressing. Enraging that they just made the worst and most trite fan fiction with such a large budget and great cast. End program, indeed. At least I got a laugh out of it with that snarky comment of yours. ;)

Lol, thanks… and glad to make at least 1 person laugh ;)

I still have a feeling S2’s direction was changed (drastically) coz of COVID. The staying in one place factor, but also the pair-ups (a lot of shows filmed during the pandemic have been doing the same) are sort of evidence for that. But such a shame..as the first 2 episodes were só promising.

Why do some think that 2nd episode was so promising? That was the worst live Trek episode since Star Trek Discovery. That 2nd episode was just so mind numbingly awful I feel like it was made that way on purpose to make the rest of the season appear better than it was.

Also, while Picard was not good Trek I did not find the season as cringe worthy as most it seems. I felt like they had an actual goal in mind. While it didn’t quite hit the mark I think they made a decent effort. Certainly better than what they did in season 1. But then, I was expecting complete garbage this season based on all the previews and promos. So perhaps my expectations were lowered?

I’m getting the feeling that Picard has been a happier Star Trek experience for Jeri Ryan that Voyager was. If so, I’m happy that this has been a good experience for her.

Let’s just be direct on the elephant in the room. Kate Mulgrew was kind of dick to some of the cast, and especially Ryan. This situation is not all that different than when William Shatner behaved similarly on some occasions with certain cast members.

True but Mulgrew did apologize. While that doesn’t negate her behavior it seems like her and Jeri have moved on. Plus let’s not forget there were a lot of issues dealing with how to handle the characters and the storylines on this show. That inevitably lead to more issues. If the staff had handled the situation better some of this could have been mitigated. I do give Picard some credit where Seven is concerned though. I felt most of her development was quite believable given where we left her character at the end of Voyager.

And for the record Shatner has reached out to those who have felt he wronged them in some way. Only Takei has been holding onto his scorn for some reason. At this point it very much looks like it’s his problem and not Shatner’s.

I just wish Picard had been a good experience for the viewers. :(

well, the costumes were better for her for a start.

Well we got plenty of twists and turns in season 2 as well. Unfortunately a lot of them didn’t make a lot of sense or wasn’t all that vital to the story.

But it is exciting to see Seven interact with the entire TNG cast. That’s something I wanted to see since the TNG films. I was hoping we would get some DS9 and VOY characters in the last season but now that this has turned into a big TNG event, I don’t see that happening anymore. But I would still love to see Janeway make a live action appearance on the show to reconnect her with Seven. Not holding my breath for it, but crossing my fingers. ;)

It’s interesting that they held onto the idea of Seven interacting with the TNG cast since Nemesis. I wonder what other previous unused ideas we will end of seeing eventually. A Gary Seven-esque spinoff?

At this point, anything really is possible IMO. I was commenting on another thread how the Section 31 show they been telling us for years now is coming that it may go in that type of direction itself. Maybe that group will be doing time travel and multiverse missions protecting other planets and people. We only seen the Watchers in the ‘past’ in the 20th and 21st century. But maybe in the post-Nemesis era they eventually form a relationship with the Federation. Maybe even work together to protect planets and time.

They are reintroducing so much at this point, I would like to think maybe it’s a bigger plan for another show or a story line in one of the others currently on.

Yeah, we almost got that with Nemesis but IIRC Jeri turned down the opportunity. Who knows, maybe we will get Beltran and this new transwarp conduit is how Chakotay and the Protostar end up in Delta of the past

I think that was as a potential replacement for one of the female cast members who was having a tough negotiation. Ryan ultimately claimed she wouldn’t have done it either way.

Interesting. I never heard that. I did hear that Marina Sirtis wasn’t a fan of the director tho so maybe her?

I think I read somewhere that negotiations with Marina Sirtis were at an impasse and they considered replacing her with Seven. I don’t remember if it was Sirtis herself who talked about it at a convention.

I think I remember at one point Marina Sirtis not talking about the negotiations per say but absolutely hating the director and making her like stand on a stool because he though she was too short or something like that

Maybe it would have been a better idea to do a Seven show instead of Picard and have her work with Picard on her show, not the other way around. For me, Seven is the standout character of the show and she is criminally underutilized.

I still think the best spinoff there was a Rios spinoff. Would have been great following him around with his holograms on his little ragtag ship from scrape to scrape….

If they really wanted to do a giant fangasm they would get as many DS9’s and Voyager people as they could to show up in this final season. And that is still possible. They managed to keep the TNG people secret all through filming.

Well, I think that no matter what, there’s always going to be like the deepest respect between these women… There’s a connection.

Sometimes, I feel like Ryan and Hurd haven’t been watching the show. They seem not to have any idea how their characters are written on Picard. There’s no chemistry between them, and all they do is bicker.

Bickering can be good. I remember a reviewer’s saying that in “The Voyage Home,” Kirk and Spock bicker “like an old married couple.” And I don’t think it was a criticism.

But Shatner and Nimoy are the definition of Star Trek chemistry. Ryan and Hurd have none

They really don’t.

By TVH, Kirk and Spock had been close friends for over twenty years, and audiences had been watching them for that long as well. By the time of Picard Season 2, we’d seen Raffi and Seven for one season which took place over, tops, the course of a few weeks (and they don’t seem to have known each other at all, or well, before then), and any sort of relationship was a throwaway scene of one second at the very end.

Not to mention Jeri Ryan was only in like 3 maybe 4 eps of Season 1 and she barely had any scenes with Hurd.

That’s true too.

I strongly suspect that had the characters bickering so that they wouldn’t have too many gay scenes to cut for homophobic markets. I reckon in season 3 there will be some other reason, perhaps they are used in separate plot lines, to ensure that there won’t be too many gay scenes there either.

In “return” for those gay scenes we see a bed scene with Spock and T’Pring early in the very first episode of SNW. Including kissing in the public on Vulcan which is inside Star Trek a very very VERY big taboo and is some kinda canon-violation. The homophobic viewers have no problem with that. We have never seen such scenes with a gay couple. And others are upset about a character having another skin colour than in TAS, althogh they mostly have never seen or heard about him before.

These are definitely not clear cut issues but I am not sure most of the blame belongs to an “international market” or on “homophobic viewers.” Or even on random fans on the internet! While this does come into play on occasion I wonder about the responsibility of the staff who put Picard or even Star Trek as a whole together? It’s easy to blame random people but it’s not so easy to acknowledge they write and produce the material. Season 2 Picard was all over the place in terms of character development for everyone. So Raffi and Seven were hardly alone in that regards. As a result in this case, I don’t think it’s a big conspiracy, just poor writing. I think they had the opportunity to write them better THEY just didn’t do it! That’s sad but since they aren’t forbidden from doing it there’s still hope they can get it right! Let’s hope season 3 spends more time giving quality development to everyone on the cast.

As for SNW, it’s the first episode, so let’s see where they take all of the characters in regards to their private lives. Jumping on the bandwagon now to complain they are homophobic for not giving a gay couple the same character growth is short sighted. Let’s give them a chance to see what they can do! The Adrian Holmes discussion was absolutely inappropriate at times. However, not everyone involved was racist. Some just don’t like gender/race swapping characters. They are canon purists and believe new characters can and should be created. Ultimately though the staff chose to cast an actor based on what HE can do for the role. Its also worth noting that given the secrecy of the role they weren’t swayed by the fans when they made that particular decision. That can be a good thing! Sometimes fandoms can be too close minded! Personally I hope to see more of Adrien’s Robert April!

Based on what we have seen from this production company I honestly don’t think they care about that at all.

I don’t think the producers are homophobic but Picard is a bigger brand than Discovery and Paramount might want to sell show in as many countries as possible.

Now that I think about it, another reason could have been because of covid as they probably wanted as few face touching scenes as possible.

They have already sold the show in almost all countries. It’s running on Amazon Prime around the world except for the US, Canada and maybe a few other markets where Paramount Plus is available.

Seven and Jakotay had less chemistry.

Honestly the only people Seven ever had chemistry with was The Doctor and Janeway, the latter being ironic considering how bad the relationship was between Mulgrew and Ryan.

Good eye. I agree. And the Janeway thing was bumpy but earned.

That relationship always felt forced to me. It was even more awkward than that ill conceived Worf Troi thing.

They were “excited” about S2 too. Which was terrible. The send-off of Rios, Agnes, Elnor and so on still feels rushed, unneccessary and uninspired. John de Lancie – I so hoped there would be more of Q than these few scenes The build an arc for those characters – just to let them go. The finale of S2 was such a letdown, ill-paced and with twists and turns that didn’t make sense.
I do not want to loose faith in Season 3, but S2 was so full of flaws and errors one never would have imagine after watching the first two episodes … What if this continues in S3 with our dear TNG-players …? We’ll see.

Do you really think Kurtzman and his team have the ability required to do our favourite TNG characters justice? Look what they did to Picard and Seven! That tells you everything you need to know. I recommend going in with very low expectations.

Exactly.

Season 3 is Terry Matalas’ show – he said so himself. People are so obsessed with Kurtzman they don’t realize he isn’t the one writing or show running these shows. Yes his input is there as head Star Trek exec, but it’s ridiculous for people to blame him for every aspect of these shows they don’t like.

No less than it was to blame Berman for those years, because the buck stopped with him, plus his ‘taste’ impacted the shows massively (not permitting big music scores, to name just one obvious hit those series took.)

Kurtzman hired the showrunners, by all appearances apparently ignored the old-timer in the room (Meyer) — he should have been canned along with the initial showrunners.

Yet most everyone always seemed to give Roddenberry a pass for S3 of TOS (not me, and probably not you I would guess).

I still think S3 of TOS is the absolute worst season of Trek. I just recently watched it and it was painful to watch. Before anyone asks, ”but then why do you watch things you hate?” because I did a grand re-watch of TOS for SNW. I wanted to refresh my memory on a few things.

As bad of the last two seasons I thought Picard was, at least they were only 10 episodes each. TOS season 3 is a gruelling 20+ episodes and I can get through 4 of them.

Agreed. :)

To be fair though, Star Trek wasn’t “Star Trek” back then. The franchise as a franchise didn’t exist. They had no budget, like no support from NBC or Paramount, like nothing. That doesn’t excuse the stories of course but it probably means they couldn’t hire the talent they wanted. It was a dying show.

There are 5 good episodes in season 3. A couple other decent/mediocre ones. Yes, season 3 was easily the worst TOS season. That said, season 1 of TNG had ONE good episode. Maybe 2 if you include Conspiracy.

I’m guessing your one good ep is HEART OF GLORY? Or WHERE NO ONE HAS GONE BEFORE? I think both have good points, but neither is aces with me. The fact they won a Peabody for THE BIG GOODBYE is a disgrace; the show basically had one nice moment when the holocop asks what is going to happen to him, but the rest was just drudgery. I do like CONSPIRACY a lot, but would have loved it if they hadn’t switched it from being Starfleet conspirators to alien ones.

The one good episode was indeed Heart of Glory. Which for me is ended up being among the best episodes of the entire series.

I really don’t give a pass to Roddenberry on most things. He was of course a visionary for creating this universe but a lot of his episode ideas were figuratively and literally out there. He and George Lucas seem to share that in common. They create great worlds but leave it to other writers to continue the legacy.

He pretty much walked away from s3, but remember he wasn’t all that hands-on at the end of s1 or through much of s2. I think there’s tons of blame for GR, but I apportion most of it to the post-TOS era, where he somehow takes this huge worldwide goodwill for Trek and fails to parlay it into anything for the better part of a decade. Some of that may have been the drugs, who’s to say, but his output is pretty lame in the 70s, and it only got worse IMO later on.

I find that I’m rewatching more S3 this century than I did previously, though admittedly it is usually the same eps: THE EMPATH, THE ENTERPRISE INCIDENT, THE THOLIAN WEB, SPECTRE OF THE GUN (shoot me with a six gun, I love the stylization!), DAY OF THE DOVE, REQUIEM FOR METHUSELAH (for the ending mainly), ALL OUR YESTERDAYS and, oddly enough, TURNABOUT INTRUDER (mainly because the Scotty/McCoy scene is so good, plus Shat’s tantrums are something to see.)

Can’t imagine ever watching FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW or CHILDREN or PARADISE SYNDROME ever again, but I can say the same about THE ALTERNATIVE FACTOR and MUDD’S WOMEN from s1. Ever since I was 12, I have always seemed to prefer s2 and find the least number of clunkers there; I think Coon and JM Lucas both did very good work and kept the characters interesting most of the time, even when the stories were weak.

I agree with the others who have said that most fans won’t give GR a “pass” on Season 3, even if he had less involvement in the series at that time. Most of the creative team that made Trek great was gone by that point. The season is “fine”, but overall not great. I don’t have as much of a problem as many fans do with the season, but the dip is noticeable.

While GR may have been a bit of a visionary about a “Wagon Train to the Stars”, Star Trek as we know it exists largely because of Gene Coon and D.C. Fontana (and many others, not to downplay their roles).

Coon died before Trek found a revival in syndicated repeats, and Roddenberry started taking credit for nearly everything about Trek from the mid-1970s until his death in the 90s. GR did such a good job revising history that people still to this day often don’t realize how many people were involved making Trek, “Star Trek.” There wouldn’t be Trek without GR, obviously, but While early Trek was good, the best and most memorable Trek (in my opinion) was produced once Coon joined the team.

We wouldn’t have the Klingons, Khan, Prime Directive, The Federation/Starfleet would just be “space command” or “Earth whatever” as it was often referred to early in the show’s run. No clue if it’s true or not, but I’ve read that “The Trouble with Tribbles” never would have been produced had GR not been on vacation at the time the script was greenlit.

Agreed. Both Coon and DC were the heart and soul of some of the best of the series. GR didn’t deserve all of the blame for season three, but did some for giving Freiberger a direction he wanted the series to go (which meant more action and less humor), NBC/Paramount for the noose of restrictive budgets, and the overall minimization of violence/blood (think Day of the Dove and the Savage Curtain-what would they have looked like if you did them today, and I bet you increase their rating substantially). Roddenberry had the framework for the series in its infancy, but Gene Coon and DC Fontana really developed it into the beloved series. If Roddenberry had chosen Bob Justman (as he should have) for season three you would have seen an improvement over what we got, but the budget and non-violence climate would still have hurt the show.

I am forced to agree. Kurtzman is making these hires. The idea of multiple kinds of Trek shows is a good one but the execution of the idea has been a dismal failure. He really should have been out from the very beginning.

The fact that he couldn’t reign in Fuller is proof of that.

Season 1 didn’t provide any kind of clue for this sort of behavior?

Based on their wording, I’m gonna go ahead and guess the two characters don’t actually spend a ton of time together this year.

So happy for Jeri Ryan. She was my Star Trek crush in the 90’s. She deserves to be back in this new Star Trek resurgence. IMHO, she elevated the role of a Borg as Spock did with Vulcans, Data for androids, and Worf for Klingons. She was not just a beauty, but she perfectly developed the role of Seven of nine. She is a true asset to the SciFi genre. I can’t wait to see what Paramount has in store for Seven of nine or should I now say Captain Annika Hansen of the USS Stargazer. Come on, she looked fantastic in the chair. A fan boy in his 50’s can only dream to see more of this actor in the Star Trek universe.

I agree with you completely! I fell in love with Seven of Nine after her first few episodes on Voyager. She was obviously very pretty but I loved how smart and tough she was too. Jeri Ryan basically played her like a Vulcan but still gave her personality. And I always loved the episodes where she got to play other people like in Body and Soul and pretending to be the Doctor. She was hilarious in that episode.

I might be over thinking things (as usual) but I do think they have bigger plans for Jeri Ryan post-Picard. Even though they cut practically the entire cast of that show it was no way Seven was ever leaving. Besides being another legacy character, she’s too popular. Even if people don’t love Picard or how they portrayed Seven in the show, no one is blaming Jeri Ryan. If anything people are frustrated because they made her a full time cast member in season 2 but did little with her, so I’m hoping that change in season 3. But I feel they are thinking long term with Seven. We know there will definitely be another 25th century show after Picard. It could be her own show or maybe they will bring back another TNG character like Worf or Riker to replace Picard and she will be part of that show. But I don’t think she’s going anywhere.

Once I had a re-run of all Star Trek series in english instead in the german dubbed version I was used too, I noticed how good and versatile Jery Ryan was. The same goes to Patrick Stewart in “Sarek”. That was outstanding. You don’t notice such things in the dubbed versions. Or some puns. My favorite line: “I look forward for it. Or should I say “backward” ?” ;-)

Wow interesting! It is amazing how changes in dialogue can completely change the perception in a performance. And I just rewatched ‘Sarek’ about a week ago and both still a great episode and one of the best performances by Stewart. It’s certainly no contest compared to the acting he’s been doing on Picard unfortunately.

i just wished she had not been stuck in that catsuit.

Even as a teenager watching the show for the first time, I really preferred the few times Seven was out of the catsuit a lot more than when she was in the catsuit.

Jeri Ryan is great, but I wish they hadn’t made Seven a serial killer in Picard.

it was a disservice to ms ryan as an actress and to the character of 7 of 9 that turned her into eye candy.

The phrase ‘Twists and turns’ gives me a feeling of dread at this point. I would prefer a well written story with a proper setup, conflict, and resolution.

I really wish Seven was in Season 2…… too bad she wasn’t…

I’m not going to hold my breath on the third season being worth a damn. Hopefully it will be, but I simply can’t trust a thing these producers are doing.

I’m not holding my breath either. But I hope we are both wrong. All good things gave TNG a perfect send off but Nemesis screwed that all up. I’m hoping season 3 fixes that.

I’d love to be wrong. Believe me!

“it’s been great losing most of our cast and lines so the tng cast could be shoehorned in. It helps the focus stay away from the poor writers” Ryan said.

Not-so-reading-between-the-lines here, they’re not going to wind up together but will stay friends. Which I think is best for the actresses, the characters, and the storyline. This is not a healthy couple, never mind that it was just thrown out there..

Not-so-reading-between-the-lines here and elsewhere, they’re not going to be any sort of major factor in the upcoming season. Again, good. A small link to the previous seasons and that’s it is all that’s needed.

Their relationship feels so forced and synthetic. There is very little chemistry between them IMO. Maybe if they didn’t force the characters together so quickly and let things progress in a more natural/affectionate way, it would be better. Plus, actually let the viewers see the relationship left between season 1&2! Poor Seven, that’s two forced relationships for her, first Chakotay (yuck!) and now Raffi.

I mean, Kate Mulgrew and Jeri Ryan hated each during the making of Voyager. But onscreen, I 100% believed their friendship/relationship. Hence I was so shocked when I read of the conflicts behind the scenes.

I don’t blame the actors of PIC, but the writing and maybe, casting?

Just shows you how professional Kate and Jeri were during filming VOY, we didn’t even know what was going on behind scenes. There mentor/mentee relationship was a highlight for me(and I guess for many others).They are both class acts. I’m happy they are both back in the Trek fold.

The Janeway/Seven relationship is what saved VOY from cancellation IMO. Not to mention of course that other then Next Top Model UPN really didn’t have anything else to fall back on.

Yeah. Poor Jeri Ryan. This is the second in a row on screen relationship she has been in where there has been no chemistry whatsoever. She had none with Beltran either. And totally agree with Ryan and Mulgrew. Off screen they had more than their fair share off differences but on screen both actresses shined together. I too don’t blame Ryan or Hurd, but they just don’t work together. I will say tho that in Picard Hurd seem to be playing almost the same tortured character she did in Law and Order SVU decades ago.

What really annoys me is that they got the budget, they got all the actors back, they got the creative people behind the scenes, they got Stewart himself back for all seasons, but it all falls flat if the writing sucks (and I don’t even fault them – all Trek shows mostly suck in season 1 and 2, which means after about 50 episodes, the writers figure out the show they are writing. Sadly, in today’s world, that would be season 6). DS9 and Enterprise weren’t serialized shows and they did vastly better long arc format than Discovery and Picard while also telling more compelling standalone stories. DS9’s 10-part finale would absolutely work as a standalone season of TV these days.

I think the trick is for writers to understand that each episode is really important, especially within a serialized format.

On meandering:

For example, Twin Peaks: The Return, was a 19 hour series based on a single 300 page script, directed by a single person. All those scenes were edited into episodes with addictive openers, zany twists, comic asides and cliffhangers. Even tho no “episodes” were written into the script.

A thematic “focus” allows digression, the same way dreams play into conscious knowledge. The digressions need to be irrelevant to the plot but worthy for the audience to feel something new for the characters.

I just keep thinking: Picard and Guinan follow the investigator out the door – meaning the episode and their incarceration end with no fanfare. I would have liked to see how he set them free.

We could have seen them walk down a suburban block, take in the sun, appreciate 2024, and even consider the trauma of childhood playing in their minds. They could have compared themselves to many other people wrongfully confined.

I’m sure many people here saw openings like that and wondered how, even with Covid, we got this version of the story they were trying to tell.

I think the trauma story is worth telling but fairy tale aspect of it was ineffective. No one who watched any previous episode of TNG or season 1 Picard ever felt that Picard grew up in a fairy tale castle, so estranged from the outside world. It was off without being weird. To me.

Can Seven and Raffi fit into problem at all? Does Picard learn from them? Are they so past his problems they are in his way?

Do any of the characters learn anything from any of the other characters?

If not, is their contrast worthy or satisfying? Why not? And what does the episode teach us, give us, individually?

They could have taken this a great deal further.

If you give it a little thought, the pieces fall into place naturally. They just needed to sit down with the writer’s room and figure out how to connect thing, and they didn’t. Things felt forced or irrelevant most of the time. The trauma theme with Picard was a great idea, executed badly. If they bring in the Bord, they could have done his trauma of assimilation and juxtaposed it with Seven’s de-borgification. Raffi’s trauma of losing Elnor felt completely tacked on with no paypoff, Renée’s “trauma” wasn’t rooted in anything.

An sotrytelling example I discussed in another context: The FBI dude is pure filler the way it’s done. Walks into the episode, does nothing, exits without a trace. Some simple tweaks could have made it meaningful: He could have seen Talinn do alien stuff instad of some random Vulcans, be on her trail all the time, figured out that she met with Picard earlier, set up a trap for Rios at the clinic, ultimately been convinced by Picard that they are the good guys and somehow help them stop Soong in the finale. Nothing groundbreaking, no huge rewrites, just putting pieces into place.

Most things just happen for no reason, without consequence. And that’s a shame because all the good stuff is there.

Agree on all counts.

Yeah, if there is one rule you need to learn in hollywood its that you never write one show or movie to exist simply to serve the next show or movie. Even in serialized story telling each story needs to be entertaining all on it’s own or it doesn’t deserve to exist. I get that in serialized story telling you might not get what is going on if you only see that 1 ep but that’s not really the same thing.

I think a problem is that the audience has grown two decades and the source material in TNG / VOY just was not that good. Sure the audience liked it when they were 10 years old, had 10 TV stations and this was the only space show on. Now everyone is 30-50 and the faults just shine through.
That being said, I think they had a change to rekindle TBOBW with season 1 – Picard is now the ultimate tech the Borg want, retooth the Borg and have that there plan the whole time, everyone must now save Picard, robo-Picard must come to terms with Picard/Locutus… don’t tell anyone but they were close to making TNG good. Looks like they literally are going to fall off nonsensical stairs though instead.

I agree. For whatever reason, these writers just can’t write a satisfying season long arc. We’ve had 6 seasons of PIC and DIS and I have been disappointed with every single one of them. I don’t mean I hate them (although I’m not far off with a few of them), but most ended pretty underwhelming for me.

But then you have DS9 who did it so well and for multiple seasons. I have rewatched that show countless times and its my favorite show today because of how amazing that story line was. And DS9 is still the only show to carry the same arc beyond one season. I thought Enterprise also did a great job with it and I didn’t even love the Xindi arc. But season 3 has some of the best episodes in the series and they ended the story line well. And that’s the crazy thing, as you said neither show started out serialized and yet they still did it so well when they did.

PIC and DIS just seems to have so many problems with this format for some reason. I don’t know if I ever want to watch the first two seasons of Picard ever again. Discovery has gotten a little better for me every season but its still in the below average department. I will say there are a lot of solid episodes DIS has in every season; season 2 probably the most out of all IMO. Unfortunately they are all tied to boring or convoluted season arcs and makes it hard to rewatch a lot of them.

Here is how I would deal with Seven in Starfleet for season three:

At the urging of Admiral Picard: Starfleet accepts 7 of 9. They allow her to take a few exams to test out of the Academy (which she aces). Then, she can skip over the Ensign rank as well due to her experience as part of the Voyager crew. She enters Starfleet as Lt. Seven of Nine. (Her official name, not Annika Hansen). She serves under Cmdr. Raffi for a year as science officer, ranks up to Lt. Cmdr. in 6 months and to full Commander another 6 months. After serving as XO under a different captain for 6 months becomes Captain in the field due to an emergency and is promoted to official captain a month later.

Yeah, fan fiction I know, but I would rather see her serve some time ranking up in Starfleet than just being made captain right away.

According to some, Picard already made her Captain in the finale. Yeah I don’t really but that either but I won’t be shocked if she is actually is just a Captain in season 3 with the people writing these shows today. Your ‘fan fiction’ actually makes more sense if that is the case.

It was already done when they made Kirk be promoted from cadet to captain, “for reasons”, at the end of Star Trek 09. When Into Darkness came around, they were forced to write a reason to “demote” him, only to become Captain again a little later into the film. It was nonsense. The writers could have come up with any number of more plausible scenarios to make Kirk captain at the end, if that was their goal (which it clearly was). Lt. Kirk, teaching at the academy (which Prime Kirk did) would work, but it goes against the Zapp Brannigan view of Kirk.

There’s absolutely no way that Starfleet would have rejected Seven’s application, except in the minds of the Picard writers who made Starfleet and the Federation a dystopia in Picard. Captain/Admiral Janeway would never had stood for that and would have resigned her commission before allowing something like that to have happened. In a show with many absurd plotlines, that was one of the worst.

Yeah I can’t deny any of that and did use the KU Kirk example in another thread, so it’s certainly not out of possibility with the people running Star Trek today.

And we fully agree its no way Starfleet would’ve rejected Seven. And its more crazy since Icheb was a Starfleet officer last season, so their own canon makes no sense. It looks like they wanted to give a reason why Seven didn’t become a Starfleet officer and to emphasize she did want to be one it just wasn’t her choice; so they can then proceed to make her one in the laziest way possible.

I swear, it feels like teenagers wrote this season or something.

Poor Ensign Kim. Lol
VOY / TNG sucks.
I can now totally understand how Captain Rios would rather stay in the past then return to that dystopia.

They’re both actors, so it’s part of the job to drum up excitement but it can’t be worse than season 2. Glad to see Kore and Elnor won’t be returning.

The problem I have with Raffi and Seven, but which goes for most of the new PIC characters, is that their respect and deep connection does not feel earned, if possible at all, because they’ve all known each other for what, one year now? Or how much time is supposed to have passed between season 1 and season 2? Other than that, fine with me…