“The Broken Circle”
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds Season 2, Episode 1 – Debuted Thursday, June 15, 2023
Written by: Henry Alonso Myers & Akiva Goldsman
Directed by Chris Fisher
A fun, action-packed season premiere keeps the focus on the characters, deepening the bond of this Star Trek family.
No parties while I am gone.
WARNING: Spoilers below!
RECAP
“We must steal the Enterprise”
The USS Enterprise is back at Starbase One getting a major inspection and the crew is taking leave—including Captain Pike, who reveals his inner Boy Scout as he assures the incarcerated Number One he is willing to do anything to make sure she wins her case “because it’s what is right.” To that end, he is going to leave the docked Enterprise (and surprisingly, the rest of the episode) in the hands of Mr. Spock as heads off to “the other side of the quadrant” to get Una a good lawyer. Spock is a bit concerned about being acting captain, confiding in Dr. M’Benga that after dropping his block to fight the Gorn (back in episode 109), his uncontrolled emotions will impact his judgment. The good doctor says he will just have to deal with it like the rest of us, but he does prescribe some musical therapy to calm his Vulcan nerves… just in time, as Christine Chapel shows up to spike Spock’s wavering control. As for Christine, she is coping with the tension by considering taking a sabbatical… to Vulcan. Hmm, maybe she has a type?
Meanwhile, the rest of the crew are bristling at the intrusive Starfleet inspectors led by the inscrutable Commander Pelia, but during all the hubbub Uhura gets a distress call… from La’an (remember, she left after 109 to help that girl orphaned by the Gorn). Admiral April refuses Spock’s request to render assistance even though the message warned of an “anti-Federation threat” because La’an is on Cajitar IV, a dilithium mine planet that gets traded back and forth with the Klingons per the treaty that ended the recent war. Not willing to wait until the Feds take over again at the end of the month, Spock and team start hatching a plan to get the inspectors off the ship and take the Enterprise on a joy ride. Unfortunately, Commander Pelia sees right through their little scheme, pointing to all the Starfleet regs they just violated. Uh-oh. However, it turns out she knows Spock’s mom and is ready to trust his un-Vulcan like “hunch.” With “If you are going to steal a starship, do it correctly,” she wins our hearts and helps the gang fake the warp core breach right. Pelia—now revealed to be a mysterious long-lived alien—subs in as chief engineer and they undock and warp away, leaving Starbase One hanging. Well, that escalated quickly.
Well, the good news is this is the last time I will have to steal the Enterprise… right?
“You sure you want to do this again?”
On rough-and-tumble Cajitar IV, La’an is holding her own against a Klingon in a drinking contest, her reward the securing of a meeting with the leader of “The Broken Circle.” (Title alert!) As the security officer soon expositions to the newly arrived undercover Enterprise gang, this mining syndicate is made up of humans and Klingons who miss the good old days of the war, primarily for all that dilithium money it generated. She ended up on this hollowed-out planet to find Oriana’s parents only to find intrigue involving a mysterious ion radiation explosion at the mine, and an active trade in black market Federation tech. Spock assigns Chapel and M’Benga to help the miners injured in what looks like a photon torpedo detonation while he and Uhura will back up La’an, who has arranged an illicit Starfleet weapons deal. As La’an impressively bluffs her way through the trade with some Klingons who already had to kill a few folks just to make it to the meet, they learn the syndicate is planning something big for the next day with all this Fed tech. That can’t be good.
As for the medicos, their impressive work with the civilian victims of the explosion gets the attention of the syndicate who shanghais them, taking them deep into the planet to help their own wounded. What they find is a huge cavern concealing a kitbashed Starfleet ship under construction by the bad guys with a sickbay full of burn victims. We learn this isn’t M’Benga and Chapel’s first rodeo treating Klingons, as M’Benga remembers “there was so much blood in the air, it turned red.” Struggling to keep it together, they sort out the ship is loaded with photons and built to restart a war. The plan is to fight their way through Klingon warriors to get to the bridge which is of course totally insane, except that since the war Joseph has been keeping a couple of vials of super serum on him… just in case. Jacked up, the two healers turn into fighting machines, effortlessly taking down the guards. M’Benga comes really close to killing a guy as he does a bit of light torture to learn there are 30 more soldiers on the bridge… too many, even in their current Ninja Warrior condition. But there is a transponder they can doctor to send a message to the Enterprise. After Plan B works, they fight their way through a few more goons as the super juice powers run out, leaving them trapped in an airlock… just as the ship takes off. Ruh oh.
Side effects include… oh screw it, let’s Hulk out!
“I can’t believe this is how we are going to die”
Ortegas is hiding the Enterprise from the Klingon D7 battle cruiser that just showed up, promising they just look like another piece of space junk floating in a field of ice and rock. The bridge crew spots the “Starfleet” ship launch from the planet, not knowing it’s a fake and realizing it is no match for the Klingons. As they consider rendering assistance, Uhura decodes a message telling them to destroy the ship. Spock, logic sound, works out it’s from the medical team and this ship is how the Broken Circle plans on restarting the war. He knows Dr. M’Benga and (gulp) Christine are on that ship, willing to give their lives to help stop it. As the fake ship starts firing on the Enterprise, they hold their fire but pursue as it heads for the D7. Trapped in an airlock, Joseph and Christine are doing their best to not go down with the ship but all they can find is a few pieces of EV suits. With Klingons about to breach the door, M’Benga’s terrible idea is for them to jump into space in hopes that the beacon on a helmet they found might be just enough to get the Enterprise’s attention. He assures her that they can live a whole minute in the vacuum of space and anyway, they will pass out in 15 seconds. Great bedside manner, doc.
As the Klingons finally spot what they can only assume to be two Starfleet ships headed right for them, an anguished Spock finally gives up his wait for a signal from the two missing shipmates and orders the destruction of the fake ship… just as M’Benga and Chapel take their leap of faith into space. Barely holding it together, Spock is on point when Uhura detects the helmet signal, ordering the transporter room to beam the pair in as he rushes in to find the frozen doctor and nurse. The emotionally compromised Vulcan refuses to let Chapel die, bringing her back with tears and CPR, crying out “I waited for you!” (Oh, and M’Benga is fine too.) An apparently patient Klingon captain hails the Enterprise, asking why he shouldn’t just blow them out of the sky. Spock gives the story of the false flag ship and convinces the skeptical Klingon to meet him over some bloodwine to establish some trust. And there was much drinking and rejoicing down on Cajitar IV. With Captain D’Chock placated (and intoxicated), Spock confers with Pelia, who requests a transfer to the Enterprise because, after centuries of life, she’s bored. Fair enough. Following the party, Spock gets dressed down over subspace by Admiral April, but gets off easy with only his hangover as punishment. We find out why when the admiral admits to his commodore colleague that Spock may have saved them from a two-front war with the Klingons on one side and the … wait for it … Gorn on the other. Dun dun duuun!
Klingons shmingons… I got this.
ANALYSIS
Spock’s world
The second season of Strange New Worlds starts strong with an action-packed episode that digs deep into the emotional stories of the characters. The plot to save a wayward crewmate and foil a plan to start a war is classic Star Trek. It may not be one of those too-often touted genre “big swings;” however, the show took a big risk by sidelining series star Anson Mount along with Rebecca Romijn and handing the reins to Ethan Peck and the rest of the cast, and that risk paid off. Leaving the resolution of the season 1 finale cliffhanger of Una’s fate to episode 2 (which looks to be a classic courtroom episode) allows the season premiere to lean more into space action, including a quick arrival at an actual strange new world, the alien planet beautifully realized with a fascinating backstory and excellent production design. This makes sense, as this episode picked up on the various threads left hanging in episode 109, including Hemmer’s exit as chief engineer, La’an’s exit to help Oriana, and (primarily) Spock’s struggle with emotion after dropping his block to fight off the Gorn. Director Chris Fisher’s pacing got it just right as the show jumped from action to emotion, although he may have over-indulged on the slow-mo a bit.
Leaning into the ensemble cast allowed for some excellent character exploration. Ethan Peck delivers a powerful performance as he juggles the responsibility of command, loyalty to his crewmates, and his simmering feelings. As the series premiere did with Pike’s existential struggle, this season 2 premiere sets up a new arc for Spock (and Chapel). It also found time to nod to canon with M’Benga giving Spock his iconic Vuclan lute now imbued with more meaning as part of his method for emotional control. “The Broken Circle” also shows how Spock is willing to go to any length for his crew—including stealing the USS Enterprise, as he will do again for Pike in “The Menagerie.” All of this is Strange New Worlds at its best, telling new stories that add to the lore and enriching beloved characters. Unfortunately, the show also indulges in some of its overly meta references when it stops the tense action for the crew to have a chat about Spock’s warp catchphrase. There are better ways to find humor than the overly casual (and often anachronistic) bridge crew banter the show continues to lean on.
If I stay real quiet maybe Spock won’t notice me.
Also standing out in this episode is an exploration of the bond between Christine Chapel and Joseph M’Benga, now revealed to be Klingon War vets. Babs Olusanmokun and Jess Bush run with the material, selling us on how they have scars that have not healed and showing off some impressive fight choreography along the way. Super serums are a bit cliché, but perhaps (hopefully) there is more to this story in upcoming episodes. We even got some hints that Ortegas too is a vet of the war, although she seems to miss the action more than being haunted by it. And with the captain and the first officer away, there were opportunities for others to help out including Jenna Mitchell (Rong Fu), who finally got off the bridge and was involved in the ship-stealing shenanigans. All of this enriches the show by filling out these characters and making them more realized.
Speaking of interesting characters, Pelia hit the ground running with Carol Kane immediately stealing every scene she was in. Bruce Horak’s Hemmer was a fan favorite in season 1 and will not be forgotten, but Pelia’s unique story and the mystery of her origins as a “Lanthanite” are immediately captivating. Carol Kane’s kooky energy is perfect for this jaded old soul looking for a bit of space adventure after hiding out on Earth for centuries, and her past connection to Spock’s mother can only lead to more good things (and hopefully a guest spot return for Mia Kirshner as Amanda Grayson). Pelia talking about how she “came out” to Amanda was interesting phrasing and could lead to an allegorical story regarding the Lanthanites hiding their truth amongst the humans on Earth. Other nods to Trek’s long history of inclusivity just in time for Pride Month include Oriana having two moms and the addition of non-binary and transgender actor Noah Lamanna as the new transporter chief. The issue of being true to yourself was also hinted at with Una’s brief appearance and will likely be picked up next week in the big courtroom drama episode.
The fall 2259 Cajitar Collection is all about organic leather.
Today is a good day to return
“The Broken Circle” marks the return of Klingons, their first appearance since season 2 of Discovery. After Klingons (and their new look) caused such a ruckus in the first season of Discovery, it’s understandable that Strange New Worlds producers shied away from them in season 1 as they established the series. But the Klingons are such an iconic part of Star Trek, and the Cold War allegory they were built to represent on The Original Series is just as relevant today, so they are a welcome addition to the show, fitting in nicely with the established franchise style. Not only does bringing the Klingons back help with the character stories as noted above but offers some good worldbuilding with the postwar period, with Cajitar IV akin to divided Germany after World War II. The plot of The Broken Circle, an alliance of greedy humans and Klingons willing to start a war for profit using a “false flag”is also a nice little contemporary allegory for all those who use misinformation and want to profit from keeping people fighting. It also echoes the classic TOS episode “Day of the Dove,” with a similar theme of finding common ground to stand up against a force that is feeding off conflict.
Why are you humans obsessed with our hair?
As for the hints of the growing Gorn threat, the season premiere makes it clear the show is far from done with the lizard villains we all thought were first encountered years later in the classic TOS episode “Arena.” There is much to say about this, but for now let’s enjoy the season premiere and deal with them later. (But do keep an eye out for TrekMovie’s upcoming interview with the showrunners talking about the Gorn and how they fit into canon and more).
Final thoughts
“The Broken Circle” is one of the best episodes of the series so far and an excellent season opener, tying up loose ends and setting up a series of new character and plot arcs. Strong performances were elevated by excellent music, sound, and design across the board. We got laughs, cries, fighting, drinking, and some-thought provoking ideas. What could be better? After an impressive first season, it appears that Strange New Worlds is not going to have a sophomore slump and it is only getting better. Qapla’!
Yes La’an, I am still expecting a graduation gift.
Bits
- Starts with Captain’s Log, Stardate 2369.2.
- Uhura is now an Ensign, so enough time has passed for her to graduate from Starfleet Academy.
- The episode was dedicated to the original Uhura, the late Nichelle Nichols.
- Carol Kane (Pelia) was credited as a guest star in the end credits.
- Emma Ho from episode 109 returns to play Oriana.
- There is a new transporter chief (Jay, played by Noah Lamanna), replacing Kyle, played by André Dae Kim from season 1 who left the show to work on Vampire Academy.
- The Klingon Broken Circle member Jen was played by Hannah Spear, who played Suru’s sister Siranna on Discovery and Short Treks along with another Kelpien character.
- Pike mentions new shuttles can cut his trip from 3 days to 2.5. Some new sleek-looking craft could be seen flying around Starbase One in the opening establishing shot.
- Una calling Pike a Boy Scout is a callback to her doing the same in the season 1 episode “The Serene Squall.”
- Mitchell mentions that the fake Federation ship was “Crossfield class, I think,” giving her some wiggle room as the ship only somewhat resembled the USS Discovery-type Crossfield Class ship, primarily with the saucer. It was probably comprised of derelict ship parts left over from the war.
- The fake Federation interior scenes appear to have been shot on redressed USS Discovery sets from Star Trek: Discovery, which is filmed at a different studio in Toronto.
- Uhura (and her universal translator) had a bit of trouble working out what the Klingons were saying because they were speaking in the “Kach-Ugh” Klingon dialect.
- Hinting at the effect of drinking Klingon bloodwine, the Klingon captain’s toast translates as “may your blood scream.”
- La’an’s “anti-matter detonation switch” bluff was a nod to Leia’s thermal detonator threat from Return of the Jedi, a trick Jack Crusher also used recently in season 3 of Picard.
- Babs Olusanmokun has plenty of experience for the fight scenes as he is a two-time Pan-American Champion in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
- In the Klingon War, M’Benga (likely with Chapel) served on the moon of J’gal during the Battle of ChaKana.
- Morse code has been used often in Star Trek, but M’Benga used the previously unknown “Morse Code 2.”
- The Enterprise was being “upgraded” at Starbase One, leaving open the question: what’s new on the ship?
- The “probable” Gorn Attack Ship identified on the admiral’s map was spotted in the vicinity of the Cestus system, where Captain James T. Kirk and the USS Enterprise will eventually find evidence of a Gorn attack years later in “Arena.
- In addition to humans and Klingons, other races spotted on Cajitar include a Tellarite, Vulcan, Bolian, and Orion.
- Also seen close by on the map was the Galdonterre system, first mentioned in the Klingon-focused DS9 episode “Blood Oath.” The Gorn ship was also near Deep Space 2.
- Ortegas is considering “Vámonos” (Spanish for “let’s go”) as her warp catchphrase.
- Does M’Benga have a room full of musical instruments and other useful coping devices in the back of his sickbay?
- The costume La’an wears on Cajitar was first worn by Mirror Georgiou (Michelle Yeoh) in season 2 of Discovery.
Wearing this gets me that much closer to my own Oscar.
More to come
Every Friday, the TrekMovie.com All Access Star Trek Podcast covers the latest news in the Star Trek Universe and discusses the latest episode. The podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Stitcher and is part of the TrekMovie Podcast Network.
Following the premiere, new episodes of the 10-episode season will drop weekly on Thursdays on Paramount+ in the U.S, the U.K., Australia, Latin America, Brazil, France, Italy, Germany, Switzerland and Austria. The second season will also be available to stream on Paramount+ in South Korea, with premiere dates to be announced at a later date.
Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
This one really came across as weird to me. Spock doesn’t act like Spock, and it’s a big problem. I just don’t buy that Spock is so bad at controlling emotion at this point in his life. Their set up does little for me in making that work. “I want the ship to go”.. awful. It’s actually worse with context. They wasted time getting the ship out of there to get a chuckle from the audience. Cringey. I don’t buy a Lieutenant directly talking to an Admiral in the way they did it. He’d have been reprimanded, and he’d be on trial faster than Una was. So much that happens is just unearned. Ethan Peck is doing what he can, but I just can’t even imagine this is a progenitor version of Leonard Nimoy’s portrayal. The medicine that makes the medical staff super soldiers is a little much for me. I found Carol Kane’s character confusing and irritating, and I thought she’d be great. Time will tell. On the plus side, the Klingons mostly work and they look great. Christina Chong is really fantastic. Weird seeing them on the set of the Discovery but dressed differently. Forgivable because of budget stuff, but weird. I notice too much, so that’s really on me. So we’re now building towards a war with the Gorn. Forget Body Checking Canon, it’s straight up giving the middle finger to it, still. Not a great start. A fun romp that makes little sense.
I found the justification for Spock’s behavior to be good – he is “dysregulated” after relaxing emotional control to survive the gorns. I think it’s not just his immaturity or anything like that; he will have to recover his former state. But I understand that you might not like these “cheats” to make Spock act more sentimentally.
If Spock were shown to be like a teenager, sure. But the guy’s an adult who had to survive growing up on Vulcan. If he doesn’t know how to regain his composure after what appears to have been at least a slight passage of time, then what would he do back home? Did he go hide for weeks at a time? Not saying it wasn’t possible, but just seems like a stretch to assume he hasn’t learned how to control it better by this point in history. Even in “The Cage” before Leonard Nimoy had a full grip on the role, he seemed to understand that he had to drop back to the logical, unemotional state shortly after a smile or other slight emotional reaction. Assuming this is the continuation of that character, seems like he had himself mostly under control by that point.
THIS. It is, at best, a weak connection via dialogue to justify making him ‘go there’. They want to explore his human side by devolving him, and I find it silly and contrived. Want to explore him being conflicted and make it interesting? Go more subtle. Don’t be so on the nose. I actually liked the idea of him find a way to relieve stress, but he should still be far more internal with his conflict, and here it was too external. The one thing I give the Kelvinverse credit for, was completing Spock’s Arc.. from the series, the movies (specifically, ST:TMP) where he reconciles being a child of two worlds. This should be his approach to a more contained version we knew, and this shows him regressing, and that’s what feels wrong, no matter what deviations they put in play vis dialogue. It doesn’t feel earned, and if they can make it feel earned, I’ll change my tune.
And, I know I’m beating a dead horse here, this is the kind of thing they could easily do if this show was a full on reboot.
100%
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It’s not. But I have my own head canon. And it exactly follows real life The story of the enterprise started with Pike and then Kirk. Kirk’s infamous 5 year mission and saving earth is why the “1701” name lives on into wekk beyong Picard’s time. Forget what Jack said in Picard season 3, the tribute to the Enterprise is to Kirk, not PIcard.
Anyways, rant over. Kirk happened, then Picard, then Star Trek First Contact. Conchrane knowing about the future changed everything forever. Thats where Star Trek Enterprise comes into play and is quite obviously apart of Discovery which means SNW as well. So IMHO we are in the Prime universe but not the original timeline.
It drives me nuts when people comfuse the 2 such as saying “The Kelvin timeline”. Kelvin is NOT a timeline, it is an entirely different universe from the moment of it’s own big bang. Sure things diverges with the Kelvin incident but regardless it is an entirely separate universe.
Not exactly following what you said there. But this is certainly not “real life”. It is a fictional universe. The problem comes from some producers and writers deciding they want to change things to the way THEY want it. Sure, some tweaking or pushing the edges is fine. But when you make wholesale changes to the fictitious events that make up that universe then you just aren’t playing in the same sandbox. That’s fine but don’t try and tell the viewers it’s the same when it so obviously is not. Strange New Worlds was pretty obviously not the same world that led to the events of TOS. It’s different. It’s a reboot. The producers should just be honest with the viewers and tell us that is what it is. Not an “alternate time line”. A complete reboot of a part of that universe.
You have to remember TOS spock. Left unchecked Vulcans are not just emotional, they are exceptionally violent. Thats WHY they developed a logical was of life to save their species. Spock, being half human, getting uncontrolled and unchecked is 100% in check with the character.
Spock was not an emotionless character in the Cage. That role was occupied by Number 1. When the show was retooled and a second pilot created, the character of Number 1 was eliminated and the emotionless aspect was transferred to Spock.
Spock was not an emotionless character in the Cage. That role was occupied by Number 1. When the show was retooled and a second pilot created, the character of Number 1 was eliminated and the emotionless aspect was transferred to Spock.
Exactly. I mean, I wish some of these well meaning fans would go back and watch the source material more before they come here with these misinformed opinions. I mean, I just want to sit them down and say like, “Dude, WTF? did you really watch the old eps, because it sure doesn’t seem like it based on some of your bonehead comments here?”
LOL
I said this above but I think it deserves repeating. People forget TOS. Left unchecked Vulcans are not just emotional, they are violent barbarians. Smart ones but still. AND they have twice the strength of ther strongest human. Spock’s behavior on this show is totally in check with his age and his internal conflict with his 1/2 vulcan 1/2 human nature.
THANK YOU!!!!
Speaking as someone who identifies as belonging to 2 different cultures but never fitting in to either, it’s simply not as simple as you make it seem. No one identifies or understands you. That was completely clear when Spock did not get the “make it so” joke of this episode. He was being dead serious and everyone laughed it off. And he is in command. That can not be fun, logical or not.
It’s not about liking them or not, honestly.. it’s about them feeling justified within the story. From an off hand piece of dialogue, that’s not enough. It comes off as what it is.. an excuse for the writers to lazily put Spock in an emotional place so they can have him OVER-emote (relatively speaking) on screen. It doesn’t feel earned, and honestly, it’s not that interesting at this point, either.
OMG, lol. Talk about over-thinking, combined with not understanding the source material.
You just don’t like the series and are trying to come with strawmans to justify your dislike. And even the minor things you make out to major issues.
Where were you with bringing up these types of issues on the Pic S3 custer-F? Because that season REALLY did have major issues.
lol. If you want to have a respectful discussion, I’m down. But I think you’ve let your inherent biases about what you think of where I’m coming from color your own opinions of it so you’re turning this into some sort of confrontation as opposed to actually caring to understand. So… bye.
I’ve always wondered what an internet comeback comment would like like on a Star Trek site if Tony Robbins wrote one.
Thank you! ;-)
PS: Your comments on Spock show you don’t know and/or understand the source material on his character from The Cage. That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.
Respectfully speaking, TOS established that left uncheked Vulcans are a violant and dangerous race. They don’t have the emotional norms of humans. Thats WHY they developed the lessons of Surak and Logic. So they wouldn’t kill each other as a species. Now Spock is half Vulcan but also Half human. Heck it was pointed out that his mother is Amanda Grayson in this very episode. They covered their tracks and Spock’s actions are 100% true to the character at this age.
The “super soldier” injection really came out of left field. Never thought I’d see that in Star Trek. But in today’s Trek all bets are off. They will do anything no matter how much it doesn’t fit in that world. And they acted like we all knew what it was. Did it appear last season? That was so long ago one would think they would have referenced it in the previously recap.
Yeah that was just…odd.
It reminded me of Khan’s Magic Blood–opening a huge can of narrative worms just to solve a story problem that could have been approached differently in the first place.
…and like the “Data Calrissian” scene in Pic S3 where Data flies the “Millenium D” into the “Deathcube” and destroys it at it’s center.
Magic blood was the worst thing to every happen to Star Trek. You do not solve death in a story!!!! Spock was different. His resurrection was earned. It took an entire planet blowing up and the destruction of the 1701 to being him back. Kirk was just like, hey give him this shot and he will be fine. That’s why JJ Abrams should never be allowed Star Trek ever again
Picard S3 turning Jack into a Jedi with mind and super solider powers, based on some convoluted bastardization of Borg capabilities and using Frankenstein processes with Picard’s corpse to support it was actually a lot worse that Magic Blood. At least Magic Blood is explainable, even if it’s not earned.
To be fair, Khan himself could be identified as a super soldier.
Yes, but his was an engineered condition. He was created to be that way. What we saw here was an artificial temporary arrangement. One that if it works with no side effects would have been in casual use any time it was needed in the future. Entire Federation troops would be shot up with the stuff. This is the sort of thing that SH people never consider. If you are doing a prequel that is meant to fall in line with what comes after you need to examine what you do and make sure it is not so miraculous that it would obviously be a thing later. Like the spore drive or temporary super serum.
That sort of medical technology is likely going to be available within the next few decades.
I’ll believe it when I see it.
The human body was designed for a pretty rigorous lifestyle, but an engineering design for a not-too-distant artificial red blood cell could very literally give future super-soldiers a significant leg up over the competition. These artificial red blood cells, called respirocytes, would give their users the ability to hold their breath for extended periods of time and offer a massive jump in cardiovascular endurance. These tiny machines would be made up of just three parts: rotors to absorb and release oxygen, rotors to absorb and release carbon dioxide, and rotors to absorb and release glucose. In effect, the respirocytes would do the same job as red blood cells, just far better than nature could permit. The concept is based on the work of Robert Freitas, a nanotechnology researcher at the Institute for Molecular Manufacturing, and would offer the user the ability to “hold their breath at the bottom of a swimming pool for four hours, or let someone sprint at top speed for at least 15 minutes without stopping to breathe.”
I wasn’t overly impressed – the fight with the Klingons not believable – 2 against 8? And they win? I also did not find Spock in character “make the ship go?” – not funny or cute. Spock in tears? The Discovery series was dedicated to incessant fighting – like a video game, with little character dev, characters with no honest reflection, superficial. I hope Strange New Worlds doesn’t fall into the same trap. Long time Star Trekkers want depth – authentic character motivation, good writing, and a hopeful future. On the good side, I did like the Klingons. They rang true. And overall, I do like the characters, especially the new engineer.
Ah, yeah, you’re the dude who in the last article said no Captains in Starfleet called bridge crew by their first names, and then when many of us provided like twenty examples across all Trek series of Captains doing just that, you miraculously “disappeared” and didn’t respond back…lol
So I am skeptical of this new opinion of yours which also now looks very suspect to me. Like your point in the last article, it fully came across that you really need to go back and watch more Star Trek, because your coming across as misinformed.
Fool me once, shame on you…fool me twice, shame on me.
Jim
Star Trek has had a Vulcan Problem since Tuvok, really. TOS and TNG did well by Spock, then Sarek was very watchable, even if TNG did stray from his baseline quickly.
Voyager had trouble with Tuvok being a full Vulcan. Tim Russ was so dependable and the character had his utility, but they frequently dipped into the well of having Tuvok drastically affected by something so as to let him act very un-Vulcan in episodes where he was the focus. He just didn’t inspire the writers to do more with him, even though we had a couple episodes like “Gravity” which showed he could be the main character without changing his main qualities.
And then Enterprise decided it could only get more out of T’Pol if it turned her into a drug addict to the point where she’d be forever changed after using too much.
Characterizing a full Vulcan compellingly is very difficult, I remain completely in awe of what Mark Lenard did. Alexander Enberg and Robin Curtis did rather well IMO too. The writing is tough of course, but it’s the nuance of how emotions get sifted through the implacable exterior in performances that impress me.
What I always loved Tuvok! Didn’t love T’Pol in the beginning but love her today. But I agree with those issues with her just the same. But I never had an issue with what they did with the Vulcans in general on Enterprise, but I know others did. For me, they finally got interesting lol.
I like Tuvok, but he was in a rut on Voyager – they often didn’t know how to use him beyond Resident Party Pooper. His best utility was as a foil, but I rarely got the sense he was inspiring them when it was his turn to be the featured character. His best episode is “Meld” when he loses all control. Tim Russ was wonderful no matter what he was asked to do, but the writing for him was quite staid.
OK no worries although to be fair ‘resident party pooper’ seems to be the job description of every chief of security officer from Reed to Odo. You put a Vulcan in the job, it’s even worse lol.
This is true. There was some inherent flexibility in Worf and Odo in particular though. They had romances, senses of humor, tempers, hobbies that didn’t involve sitting and sedately doing a calm activity… By nature Tuvok couldn’t be much more than a wise immovable object. He didn’t even get to kick ass nearly enough. Making him a married parent removed the romantic angle as well.
But I shouldn’t be hard on him, there was value in his being a straight man – it did make for some good double acts with Neelix, the Doctor, Seven and Kes. And of course by starving us of any emotional reactions, the few moments he did show any sentiment of his own volition (lighting a candle for Kes, tapping his foot for Keelix, giving Janeway a tentative embrace)… powerful as all heck!
Yeah I think Neelix was the constant challenge to keep Tuvok’s inner rage from exploding. ;)
And I agree, he definitely never strayed too far in his Vulcaness, which is why it was always cool to see him exhibit any emotional gestures to anyone. Speaking of Neelix, I’m not going to lie, but the very last episode he leaves the ship and Tuvok did that little dance as you mentioned for him nearly made me cry at the time. Those are great moments, but I agree I wish there could’ve been more.
That was a very sweet moment. Neelix drove Tuvok nuts but he still appreciated his contribution to the crew. ESP with Kes while she was still there. Then with Naomi later.
Yuppers. Tuvok was at his best as a Vulcan when he had to deal with Neelix who is pretty much the exact opposite of a Vulcan. There were times Tuvok wanted to rip his head off but he was restrained as a Vulcan should be.
Good points, IMHO.
I’ve gone back and forth on Curtis. But Lenard was amazing.
It helps that I was 10 when TSFS came out for nostalgia and awe… but even as an adult Lenard’s work in that movie hits so many notes so well IMHO… emotion under the surface that peeks out and is then controlled, a deep spirituality that exists alongside his logic, a desire to save his child at is with his logic, etc.
I like what Kirstie Alley did as Saavik, but she never strikes me as being terribly… Vulcan. Robin Curtis came along and was totally different which is a shock looking at it now (I was also a kid when I saw the TOS films), but it always felt in keeping with their personas. There were some nuances too like her fascination with Spock’s revival and hiding her sadness at David’s death.
Lenard though… total package. I remember when he did VOs for non-descript Nissan commercials and I would not allow anyone to change the channel.
Don’t forget Gary Graham as Soval, either. He was a worthy successor to Mark Lenard.
True! Especially when he mellowed out to be less devious.
I loved him in the Aliens tv show!!!
Here’s the thing.. Kirstie’s Saavik had a backstory that was brought to her performance but never addressed on screen. She was half Romulan, and really struggling with her emotional side. That idea was completely abandoned by Nimoy when in ST III. Robin Curtis was basically told to play her as completely Vulcan. So there is a reason the portrayals were different, and it was intentional.
Yes. I’m not great at using head canon for big things like that not referenced onscreen, but the intent always made sense.
You beat me to it!!! OOPS!
I agree. But IIRC she was originally supposed to be half Romulan. I think that contributed to her performance. RIP
Tim Russ was the best Vulcan ev er since Leonard Nimoy himself. I’m no fan of Voyager but Tuvok was a true Vulcan through and through.
Yes he was a true Vulcan. I just think that made him much harder to write for and ever focus on.
Huh? Spock was perfect?
As a younger officer? No. But by the time of ST VI, I would say yes. Even when Kirk wanted to hate the Klingons, he was the one that had the foresight to say we need peace and this is the perfect time. I always HATED that DS9 reconned that and gave the credit to Kurzon!!!!!
And Ironically Star Trek VI had both Michael Dorn and Rene Auborjoius in it!!!!
To be fair this is taken directly from the Cage where Spock’s pure logical anti-emotion nature had not been established. I mean the guy was grinning at flowers FFS. He was the most emotional one of the crew. And don’t even get me started on the Kelvin universe Spock!
Ok the episode was a good one. The first season of SNW was good but the show is still my least favorite of the current shows. (It’s still a good show imo).
The story itself was simple and had some nice character moments. I enjoyed seeing Spock in command and stealing the Enterprise lol and it’s nice to see the show continue to be a hybrid of TOS and Discovery.
I enjoyed the references to the Klingon war that happened in Discovery along with what looked like a Crossfield class ship that the Klingon extremists were building.
Perhaps it’s what the original Crossfield class looked like before Stamets and his partner Stroll had Starfleet redesign the Discovery and the Glenn to accommodate the spore drive? Or perhaps it’s just a kit bash of various parts of vessels that the Klingons destroyed during the war.
It was mentioned that it was a Crossfield Class. I’m assuming that was done to explain why the interior sets looked like the interior of Discovery (obviously a redress of those.. which makes good budgetary sense).
Though i do like the look of this ‘Crossfield’ class ship i do prefer the look of Discovery as it’s one of the best ship designs in Trek.
I liked seeing La’an (she is the best character on the show imo) on her own and even wearing the same type of costume that mirror Georgiou wore in Discovery S2 when she was on Qo’noS saving L’rell (who i hope we will see at some point on the show).
It was also great to see the Klingons again and it was nice seeing that some of them looked very close to the ones we saw in Discovery S2.
The new ‘chief engineer’ is interesting but i was finding it hard to understand her she as the characters accent isn’t great imo and sadly i ended up turning on the subtitles to actually understand what she was saying. Overall a good episode.
I could understand her but I found it *very* grating. Hopefully she softens it a bit or I get more used to it. Carol Kane doesn’t normally sound like that, it’s a slightly dubious choice to do that I think.
I relax by telling myself it’s another alternate timeline. I mean, how can a “visual reboot” not be a divergence somewhere along the timeline? So some things will match canon as I understand it, and some things will be different. And so I can take it easy. It was a skill I developed in watching Discovery. Otherwise I might have gone mad. :-)
I would find that a lot easier if the producers would just come out and say this is a full on “reboot”. For some weird reason they think that word is radioactive among the fans. I think that is a misconception. Sure some will cry and moan but most would be fine with it. I know I would. And it’s weird that they make a show that is quite obviously a 100% reboot on screen but still insist on saying it fits well with the prime. Which quite frankly I think tends to infuriate the fan base far far worse than the few who would cry about them doing an “official” reboot. The fact that so many fans have to pretend it is an alternate time line or has no connection to the prime but still enjoy the show is evidence they are wrong.
Allergic, indeed. I recall the producers being very slow to admit Disco was a visual reboot, after being vociferous about everything hewing to canon. And then the fans having to do mental gymnastics to reconcile how advanced everything looked compared to TOS. But I am happier with how SNW tries to respect what has come before than either Disco or the Abrams films. It’s a “gentler” reboot.
The KU films were essentially reboots. At least they semi admitted it by just creating an alternate time line. Which at least I can respect. No matter what one thinks of the films themselves.
yeah, That was all Bryan Fuller’s fault. I’ve lost all respect for him
That whole show has been a hot mess from the outset. Something like a horse designed by a committee producing a camel. I look forward to the inevitable book documenting the dysfunction. IMO, the only thing good that came out of Disco was SNW. And Saru. He was/is the standout character and was wasted on that program. And now stranded a thousand years in the future, so no cameos.
It goes back to all the whining and complaining regarding the JJ reboot. Ever since then, the word “reboot” in poison with Trek fans. As soon as you here reboot + Star Trek, you automatically think of the mess Abrams made. And I think they want to distance themselves far away from that debacle.
That unfortunately true. I’m not in love with those movies but I had NO issues at all they were rebooting things. But yes, I get it, the stigma has made it hard for them to want to do it again because they fear too many fans may reject it.
But then the OTHER problem is how much better is it when you have a show like Discovery that basically just feels it’s in another universe entirely (or at least in a different time period) but tell people this is suppose to be in the same era of TOS? That just doesn’t work either.
Now SNW has done things a lot better IMO but you would think they would try a little harder to keep the canon issues a bit more accurate so people wouldn’t be moaning to put it in it’s own universe like they wanted Discovery. Ultimately that’s the issue as well.
which is silly because JJ wasn’t technically a reboot – it acknowledged prime timeline and then went off and did it’s thing in a different universe which was frankly fine until they went completely off the rails with Into Darkness which was so so dumb.
Yeah but even though STID was bad because it was essentially a reboot none of the complaints were, “it ignored canon”. The fact that it was a reboot doesn’t mean the film was going to be good. It just eliminated a potential criticism. Just like of Star Trek Discovery was officially a Trek universe reboot there would be no complaints of canon violations. But it would still be garbage.
Yeah but you just said it. They basically destroyed their own concept in the second movie lol. That’s what is so eye rolling about it. They went out their way to intricately explain how this universe works just to dump their own rules two films in. STID would’ve completely worked if it was just a reboot even if people still thought the story was dumb.
Thats exactly the issue right there!!! If you are going to create a new universe? Do your own thing because there are no rules. Don’t try to recreate one of the greatest sequels in the history of hollywood because you will fail epically! and they did. And Star Trek Beyond bombed as a result. And now Star Trek XIV, wait there is no Star Trek XIV. Even Chris Pine says stop spending MCU money on a franchise that will not give you MCU results.
Perhaps but so very many seem to be saying things like “I like the show. It gets back to the spirit of Trek. But I have to pretend it’s just another time line to make it work for me.” Sounds to me if you make something fans feel is in line with Trek then they will be fine with a reboot.
100% ^
The JJverse was not a reboot tho. Say what you want about Orci, but he did a brilliant job of giving us a literal new universe without deleting the original. Picard Season 3 proves in canon that the prime universe continued.
But one can make a straight on reboot that doesn’t delete the original. They are just two different versions of the story. One doesn’t delete the other. You could to a reboot then go back and to stories set in the prime. Thinking there can only be one seems pretty closed minded to me.
you are totally, right.
i had the same thought about Solo a Star wars story totally different universe, the Falcon what was up with that redesign am I right!?!?!??
Same here, Praetor. That’s the way I’ve been treating SNW. But this one, to me, was just plain no fun at all.
The ‘visual reboot’ explanation made no sense in Discovery and it makes no sense here either.
They should have just said from the beginning with Disco “this is the start of brand new Trek universe, we’re not going to worry about how it connects to Kelvin and Prime verse. You know there are multiple universes and here is another. Let’s go.”
That would have been more than enough. It’s a shame they didn’t have the guts to do that because I think that’s really what they would have preferred and it would saved so much trouble about trying to contort (and not very well) into existing canon.
I really think that was because they were foolishly scared to death of the word “reboot”. I think they knew they were changing everything that got in the way of their story but didn’t want to use that word. Only reluctantly did they coin the term “visual reboot” which someone probably thought was less harsh. It wasn’t. It only made things worse.
But even with all that I still think a lot would have been forgiven if the show was actually, you know, good.
“Pelia hit the ground running with Carol Kane immediately stealing every scene she was in.”
“All of this is Strange New Worlds at its best,”
“The Broken Circle” is one of the best episodes of the series so far”
“Pelia’s unique story and the mystery of her origins as a “Lanthanite” are immediately captivating.”
I realize that it’s common for fan sites to engage in excessive hyperbole when reviewing episodes. But I feel like I watched a completely different show than this reviewer. I found it to be one of the weakest episodes to date–and I’m someone who loves Strange New Worlds, so this isn’t just bashing. This show is a wonderful spiritual successor to TOS and TAS. But there were so many things about this episode I didn’t like: the cringeworthy discussion of catchphrases, Spock’s constant emotionalism, Chapel as a kickass warrior, the elevation of the Gorn to a major enemy of the Federation a decade before “Arena” (and the complete misunderstanding on the writers’ part of who the villains were in that episode–Starfleet), the goofy antics of Pelia, the cringey overuse of 21st-century slang… all in all, I found this episode to be weak and disappointing. Seeing the Klingons again was great, though they didn’t do much that was interesting other than the usual superficial trappings of grunting, fighting, and drinking bloodwine The show’s writers are capable of better than this. I have great respect for TrekMovie’s writers, but in this case I very much disagree with the reviewer.
Agree with every word. I would just add that Akiva Goldsman is just a fan playing in the sandbox. Not a writer doing the, admittedly, difficult work of fitting this show into Star Trek. I’m sorry, and I don’t say this to attack or to be mean, but Akiva Goldsman is not a good writer, and I find his approach and his public statements to be offensive to longtime fans.
I am always weary of anyone that says, “I’m sorry, and I don’t say this to attack or to be mean,” because you know that they are not sorry and their intention is to be mean. That’s right up there with, “Some of my best friends are ____.”
If you really have this opinion that AG is offensive to us fans and a horrible writer, then just own your mean attack and also don’t apologize for it — basically, don’t try to hide behind BS niceties. Own it!
I liked the episode more than you did but I will agree the catchphrase scene just felt too forced and Spock does emote a lot. But this was something we knew was going to be a big part of the character since it was when he met him in Discovery.
And it’s been said about Chapel, I like her but it’s a completely different person. She was kicking major ass lol. I won’t be shocked we find out this season she can also pilot starships and has a law degree. It’s a little too much IMO.
Overall I liked it though but I can tell this episode will probably be a bit divisive.
Chapel will become the Federation President in season three, with Roger Korby as her VP, then he’ll head to Exo III to study the Old Ones and vanish, and she’ll enter into a group marriage with M’Benga, Spock and T’Pring. They’ll bring his daughter back to life, but the little girl will die of a Vulcan disease so M’Benga will resign and go study Vulcan medicine. She’ll suffer a major head wound, forget how to fight, forget how to be sassy, forget that she knew T’Pring, forget how to assert herself, and come back to the Enterprise as a quiet, meek nurse. M’Benga will come back, too, but he’ll now serve under Mark Piper, who will be revealed to have joined the Enterprise crew after the death of his husband, Philip Boyce. Meanwhile, M’Benga will find a Vulcan cure for chronic raspiness, resulting in his becoming a much crisper enunciator. Also returning will be Jose Tyler, who will be searching for his missing brother Ash.
Mark my words.
I know this is being silly but I’m here for the gay couple. I’ll take that part.
The fact you admit being silly shows that you’re not being silly.
I won’t lie but I would be a bit impressed, but also quite insulted if they actually went this direction lol.
And I like all these characters, but none of it makes sense. I’ll cut M’Benga some slack because the only thing out of whack besides the actor feeling physically different from the original is that he isn’t the CMO in TOS. But they may have a creative reason why that isn’t the case later.
But Chapel you can’t excuse. Everything has changed about her, from her backstory and personality to even her relationship to Spock. I thought originally they were going to drive the idea she was in love with him a lot more slowly but play it more coy the first few seasons, kind of like a Niles and Daphne way if you ever watched Fraiser. But nope! Now Spock is basically in love with her. It just feels like a full on love triangle which I read is going to be a big story line this season itself.
I really wish they didn’t bring in Chapel if they were going to just ignore basically everything about the original character.
After the Gorn Chapel was my #2 biggest problem with SNW. She’s a completely different person. It’s one thing if we saw only the beginnings of her Spock crush. It’s quite another for Spock to start feeling the same way back. Sorry. No. I’m fine with playing a little with characters like hers that were never fleshed out. M’Benga was also probably not the best choice but it’s not a TERRIBLE idea provided there is a good reason for his future demotion. I have no faith these writers will come up with one or even have a plan in mind.
Yeah, I think this is an AWFUL decision and it’s going to get a lot of blacklash over it. I was a little prepared for it because the Youtubers Popcast guys who had watched all of Picard season 3 also got the early screenings of the season and one of them kept saying by the end of the first episode was going to drive fans crazy over what they did with two of the characters. Well now I know who they are talking about lol.
I think it was fine in first season that they had them play around the issue they both had feelings for each other. It still made no sense in canon but I think most people could accept it. Now it’s just going to feel like a huge distraction as they turn it into this Lifetime movie channel melodrama and of course Spock will have to ‘choose’. I really really wish they kept it a lot more subtle but in NuTrek I don’t think anyone knows what that word means. ;)
Totally agree with you, again. This was a big disappointment here, but after all the buildup and interviews, I had an inkling this episode was going to be bad. I just hope there’s some improvement as we go along. What a downgrade from last season.
It sounds like the next two are suppose to be really good, so crossing my fingers. But the Spock/Chapel thing is probably just starting.
I don’t look on line for stuff like you read but I did stumble across something from someone who claimed to see the episodes who said something else was coming that will get under fans skins as well. I think I know what it will be based on the comments but I will not drop any clues here. For me, if the Gorn thing didn’t already set a “we don’t give a damn about anything that happened on TOS” precedent, this would have done it for me. Although in my eyes the use of the Gorn was worse. It’s possible that if it is what I think it is that this will be for many what the use of the Gorn was for me.
Interesting. I don’t remember if I came across other comments like that yet but it wouldn’t surprise me considering where we are now and this show is only 11 episodes old lol.
I’m curious now, what do you think it is?
I’d like to spill my theory but I feel like I probably shouldn’t since it is based off what was said by someone who previewed the first 6 episodes. I think it was in episode 4, though.
OK no worries. At least tell me if you were close after the fact.
We call this improvisation. And you discovered the secret to modern Star Trek writing.
Regarding the Gorn: I actually think they’re doing exactly the right thing in SNW. The point is that in Arena, Kirk has pity on an opponent he previously considered monstrous. Looking at Arena without context, it looks as if Kirk at first considers the Gorn a monster simply for his appearance – I think we are expected to buy into the idea that since this is a fearsome lizard creature, it must be evil, and the (pretty simplistic) twist of the episode of course is no, we actually can relate to this creature, and it doesn’t have to be evil just because it looks monstrous. But that was back in the 60s, and frankly, today it would trouble me if I had to believe that Kirk would consider an alien monstrous solely for its appearance – he is a starfleet officer, surely he knows better from experience. Arena makes a lot more sense if Kirk and crew actually KNOW the Gorn to be monstrous creatures who kill to breed … and still find common ground in the end. It’s a much more powerful message than “hey, we knew all along that we can talk to the Gorn, so lets just be diplomatic.”
I agree 100%, though it doesn’t hurt that i’m willing to ignore small things in canon and that the gorn have always been my favorite aliens!
Here too. I can ignore small things. But having everyone aware of the Gorn to the point where Star Fleet Command is even keeping tabs on them less than 10 years before the events of Arena is NOT a “small thing”. It’s HUGE. It would be on par with giving the SNW Enterprise a Horta crewmember. Which I honestly fully expect this group to do.
No, I disagree. Kirk did mention in his log that he did indeed have a certain innate repulson to reptiles but he had to remind himself that this was a ship captain like himself. And a highly intelligent species. So he knew all that. Arena certainly makes zero sense if he was keenly aware of the existence of the Gorn. In fact, with that knowledge the entire set up fails. The main idea behind the episode was less Kirk’s mercy but that it was possible Star Fleet was in the wrong and the Gorn reaction was possibly justifiable. In fact, their reaction was the same as Kirk’s. Which he realized when he listened to what the Gorn told him on the planetoid. And then, of course, there is the entire no one even recognizing the word ‘Gorn’ element, too….
I have a toddler son that is obsessed with the Gorn in “Arena” so I’ve seen it about a million times in the last few months and I think you’re off-base in your takeaway from the episode. Kirk doesn’t consider the Gorn a monster because of its appearance, he’s PISSED because the Gorn just carried out a brutal attack on the Cestus III colony. There are few survivors, and one of the survivors said that their pleas for mercy despite children living in the colony were ignored by the Gorn.
Kirk acknowledges his own “prejudice” to the fact that the Gorn is a large reptile and the has to fight to remember “this is an intelligent creature, a captain of a starship like myself”.
The whole point of the episode is that despite the horrific action that the Gorn ship carried out, it turned out to be a misunderstanding because the Federation estalbisehd an outpost in their space without realizing it, so “the Gorn simply may have been trying to defend themselves.”.
The fact that the Gorn are large reptiles is really immaterial to the point of the episode, except to emphasize that Kirk and the Enterprise crew can still understand the Gorn’s POV despite their huge differences in biology and perspectives.
Well Lorna, in this case I very much agree with Anthony. I found this to be a first rate season opener!
Hope future episodes prove more enjoyable for you.
This writer (the founder of the site, BTW) falls all over himself each and every week to write fawning reviews of the latest ep. So the review is not a surprise.
No kidding. Frankly, I think this is the worst of the entire series. At least the fairy tale episode had some charm and solid character work for M’Benga.
All spot-on.
I just finished watching the SNW season 2 premiere.
It was awesome to see the Klingons back and looking great as ever but my god… What happened??
This was a TERRIBLE episode! None of it made any sense. I am now 100% convinced that SNW
is set in an alternate timeline and not within the prime universe. We’re back to the lazy writing
we experienced with Discovery and Picard seasons 1 and 2 – Unfortunately.
SNW season 1 was a blast to watch! Hoping we’ll get better episodes with season 2.
Except it ISN’T.
There’s speculation that it is, reinforced by Picard season 3’s fleet museum which lacks any vessels from Discovery or Strange New Worlds. An alternate timeline would free the show to go in any direction that it wants. Someone just needs to come right out and say it.
Doug Drexler probably had the best take on it: NX-01 is the one constant in three timelines that consist of TOS, Discovery and Kelvin.
The Discovery design of the Enterprise features in Picard season 1.
There may be speculation, but it’s wrong. The powers-that-be have made it clear, time and again, that Discovery and SNW are in the prime timeline. Speculations are just made-up assumptions.
But that’s the problem. They say it is yet in their very product there is a ton of evidence it isn’t. It would be like a writer saying their book is set in Victorian London then having characters hop in their cars to get places and talking on cell phones.
Well… It should be.
At this point, I’m pretty content to say everything post-2009 is apocryphal.
Let them get Roger Moore-like Star Trek out of their system; we’ll pick up again when Daniel Craig, or at least Timothy Dalton, comes along. Matalas and Chabon were the only contemporary Trek writers who have a clue.
I can dig that Bond-timeline comparison. Funny thing is I’m actually a fan of the Moore films, but totally get your point.
If canonical consistency is an absolute, this isn’t the show for you.
I’m fine with seeing different aspects of established characters being explored. For TOS, we got slices of its characters- an hour each week for 3 seasons. Spock in TOS was capable of some inconsistencies, like his behavior in “The Menagerie” indicated. That’s not bad storytelling per se, it just shows that characters are capable of surprising us. And we’re still several years from TOS, and Spock is going through a pretty well-explained crisis of emotions in SNW. Will this version line up perfectly with the Spock we find in TOS? Probably not. But that doesn’t discredit the work being done in this new series. I consider it a new interpretation, like seeing different productions of Hamlet. And as its own work, SNW has been a great take on TREK.
I’m certainly not a canonical absolutist, but this show is showing such disregard for something they’ve pledged to honor and work within that it’s insulting and impossible to believe they know Trek at all. Canon is a line you have to constantly dance around, and most reasonable fans like myself are willing to let it be bent if there is a compelling enough reason to. But Canon does matter, especially when you pledge to honor and adhere to it, as this braintrust has told us they would. I don’t think anyone expects perfection, it never has been. But you need characters to be true to themselves, and they aren’t doing that with Spock. I simply don’t buy that this is a version of the character we fell in love with. Putting Starfleet on the brink of war with a species that they knew little about 10 years forward in this story isn’t an oversight.. it’s blatant disregard, and it’s lazy. There is nothing that has been established about the Gorn canonically they needed, it could just as easily been a new species, and should have been. You don’t have to be perfect, but you need to care enough to try and get the major things right. They just don’t.
Yep. Agree with everything here. I, too, can handle a little “bending” of canon if it makes a good story work. Like Khan recognizing Chekov. Sure, head canon can find ways to make that work but it’s fine. It serves the story and it’s THAT blatant. But the Gorn thing was always a problem. And character being true to themselves also includes Chapel. I get that people change but I seriously doubt this show will present how or why she went from the aggressive take charge kind of person she is here to to the demure person she is presented as on TOS.
Yeah, the Chapel thing too.. I just kind of left it out of my rant, because I’m kind of already past it. lol. It was that blatant from day 1.
I don’t know how to tell you that people can in fact be both ways. It just depends on how they’re feeling at the time. Most of the time I am a chill person but when I need to be I can be the person that steps forward and takes charge of situations or will just be aggressive when I absolutely have to be.
Ok, but his point is that’s where she always is.. there is no jumping off point. It’s. completely different character. They could have named this person something else (and should have) and there would be NO ISSUE at all.
And THAT is part of why these mistakes are so galling. Their two biggest faux pas could have been 100% fixed if they just made up a new character or made up a new aggressive species for the Big Bad. Better still… Find one that didn’t already have a first encounter story.
Exactly, it’s like British Khan all over again. You could’ve literally gave him any other name and no one would’ve blinked. Same for Chapel, other than the fact she has blond hair and a nurse, the two couldn’t be more different so what’s the point? At least with Uhura, Spock and Una, they feel close enough to the original characters they can fit in the same hemisphere. But this Chapel doesn’t even feel like she belongs on the same planet.
Don’t get me started on CumberKhan. lol.
Honestly I’m extremely stunned that they haven’t screwed up Uhura, too. Part of me is thinking, ‘just wait. It’s coming.’
“I get that people change but I seriously doubt this show will present how or why she went from the aggressive take charge kind of person she is here to to the demure person she is presented as on TOS.”
She was a nurse who was presented as a woman of a certain age in a TV show in the mid-to-late 60s. Some of y’all make this a lot harder than it needs to be.
Right, it’s just that women weren’t really allowed to kick ass and take names in the 1960s, that really kickstarted in the 90s.
Setting aside the fact that Stefanie Powers (both as “The Girl from Uncle” and Jennifer Hart) might like a word about that theory, women today are allowed to be introverts. Chapel was an INFP, in Myers-Briggs terms.
So because the show was made in the 60’s that gives them carte blanche to change everything about anyone?
Maybe women should be better written this time around
There were female leads back then were were written from OK to well. Chapel just wasn’t a lead.
Emma Peel, too; Cagney and Lacey, later on. This is a poor excuse for poor writing on SNW.
It wouldn’t be hard to make her character more modern without fundamentally changing her whole personality. There with so little screen time for that character there is always nuance, and there’s plenty of room to explore it without altering her. Look at her in ST TMP.. a Doctor, but still believably the same person.
All it takes is a little effort to make this stuff believable. And the fact that they don’t even try to is THE point. Whatever.. it’s done, so moving on.
Yeah, that’s not what I said, and you know that.
No, I don’t know that. Please clarify if I misinterpreted your comment.
I might care more about the alterations to Chapel’s character if the new version wasn’t so much more interesting than the original. Let’s be honest, on the rare occasions when Christine Chapel was more than a cipher on TOS, she was generally a wet blanket.
Also true, but I think you can have a more middle ground too. They have basically turned this Chapel into an action hero. It just feels a little too over the top for some, me included.
I sure understand that though. They needed to find more of a balance with her.
Exactly. I understand the original Chapel wouldn’t work today but going the extreme opposite also doesn’t work.
They didn’t *need* to have Chapel at all.
Yes, exactly.
Not disagreeing. And I was one of the people excited to have her on the show. Not anymore.
No argument there. But let’s face it, Chapel was never meant to be anything more than an occasional day player. She’s lucky she was given that one Korby episode as well as a character trait. Pining for Spock. It would have just served this show better to make up a new character.
Every show after the original series tempered with the cannon of the show. The Canon has always been murky and I don’t know why y’all get on here and act like it wasn’t. Star Trek has always played with Canon…. They have never had a fidelity to their own Canon… When something hasn’t worked they pretty much ignore it or act like it never happened….. They have altered their own timelines…. You guys really need to chill… Go back and watch Discovery season 2… Look at all the time travel episodes and I can see why they feel comfortable changing things around….
I disagree. Very broadly, they did. ENT honored what came later. TNG honored what came before. SNW isn’t even making any pretenses.
Thank you, heyberto. You’re exactly right.
Thank you, sir.
I agree with this too. The fact is that writers or showrunners are not knowledgeable about the intricacies and interrelationships in Star Trek canon. And the studio is not only not knowledgeable, they’re absolute idiots (they wanted a boy band in the NX-01 eating area to attract the younger crowd, remember that?).
In the 2009 movie they came up with this stupid alternate timeline because they weren’t competent enough to stay within the confines of canon. In Discovery they went to the future for the same reason.
I’m not a canon purist either, but it’s the structure upon which the Star Trek Universe is built. You can stray a little beyond it but to ignore it like they do is just the perfect example of the marketing geniuses types (aka the idiots) who are going to do whatever show they want the way they want to do it and call it Star Trek just so they can ride on the franchise’s coat tails to attract the fans. In other words, it’s BS.
I had no idea about the boy band. The Kelvinverse is kind of ok with me, because at least they did a reset before setting the Trek Universe on fire, lol. At least they can say ‘well.. it’s a different timeline’. I liked Trek ’09, it’s the other two I don’t like (well Beyond is ok, just amazingly derivative). What I don’t like in the Kelvinverse is when they get the character archetypes wrong. Khan is a big example. Forget that he’s British and white (honestly don’t really care that they changed that), it’s that the Khan in all the ways that matter, makes no sense. Much like Chapel.. why not just call him someone else?
Yes, well they called him Khan because they wanted to benefit from TWOK… another loser ploy when you don’t have competent writers; build on someone else’s success…
I’m not a canon purist either, but it’s the structure upon which the Star Trek Universe is built. You can stray a little beyond it but to ignore it like they do is just the perfect example of the marketing geniuses types (aka the idiots) who are going to do whatever show they want the way they want to do it and call it Star Trek just so they can ride on the franchise’s coat tails to attract the fans.
You’ve hit the nail on the head here. The main reason these people have relatively secure jobs is because they’re hitching a ride on the coat tails of a franchise created by others that has a pre-existing pop culture presence, world-wide name recognition, a built-in audience who’ll tune in to most anything called “Star Trek” and a near guarantee of a multiple-season run. Yet they whine about how straightjacketed they are by the franchises’s history and canon – the canon that brought us to this 50+ year run — and how it’s inhibiting their creativity and storytelling. Well, if you want to be able to write whatever you feel like completely unfettered then create your own show from scratch and pitch it to a studio and see who watches it and how many years it runs… I mean, good luck with that! But as long as they’re not doing that, and instead owe their current jobs to the efforts and creation of others, then I don’t see why they have such a terrible problem following the existing Trek template to a reasonable degree.
Hamlet in its original Klingon, probably takes some necessary licenses, too. For instance, you probably can’t do iambic pentameter in the language.
taH pagh taHbe
I really liked this overall! Not amazing but I thought a solid start. I honestly thought I might hate it because one of the early reviewers I usually follow and agree with really hated this episode. So I was expecting to be let down but I thought it was fun! Spock stealing the Enterprise seems to be a new NuTrek trope these days since Mariner (almost) stole the Cerritos to save her mother and Riker and Picard basically got Seven to help hijack the Titan to find Beverly; so this plot line was in good company! And the kids taking the Protostar set up the entire backstory for Prodigy lol. And all of them in their premiere episodes as well.
Really loved seeing the Klingons again. They were back to their menacing and brutish, but charming rogue selves. I really liked the story revolving around a false flag to restart the war. I did not see any of that coming. And it looks like April is somehow behind it. It would be a shame he will end up being another Badmiral, but it’s the Starfleet way. Maybe even part of Section 31?
Loved all the space shot scenes with the Enterprise and the action scenes with the fake Starfleet ship and the D-7. Really good stuff.
Pelia looks like she’s going to be a lot of fun, but I can already tell she may get a little tiring for some people. I love she’s an alien too.
There are some things I had issues with like the odd scene of M’Benga and Chapel fighting but it shows they been in combat before I guess. And yeah, still not a fan of the Spock/Chapel love affair but I accepted long ago they were going down this road. Still eye rolling to me. And the catch phrase scene with Spock…guys let it go. It’s getting (very) old now.
But a pretty decent start IMO. I really thought the Klingon stuff was going to happen much later in the season and now we know it’s going to be a focus at the start. Overall an 8/10.
Where did you get the idea that April was behind or involved in that silly war plot? It looked to me like he was merely obeying treaty stipulations. (It was an idiotic concept but that seems to be par for the course with nu-Trek).
Personally I don’t buy major Star Ships maneuvering like the Millennium Falcon or X-Wings. But I guess that’s a thing now, too.
I watched this episode like at two in the morning lol. So I might have been a bit hazy on all of that, it felt like he was scheming something. Just the way it ended. But I’ll probably watch it again soon. But the funny thing is I knew the second the flashed on the Gorn name I thought of you and I knew you were going to hate it lol.
The ship maneuvering didn’t really bother me. I certainly understood the criticism for it in Picard season 3 with the Enterprise D but I don’t think it was as flagrant here, but I probably have to watch it again.
There are things a huge ship can do to evade. In WWII aircraft carriers could evade dive bombers. And you’d think they would be huge easy to hit targets! In season 1 I think they pushed it about as far as I think they could. But this time the movements just looked X-wing like. Or Enterprise D like flying into the Borg ship in Picard 3.
And the Gorn tease? I knew they were going to deal with them again but this made it look like they knew even more about the Gorn than was let on last season. They certainly were well aware they existed. They knew they were a big threat. And they even seem to have a good idea of what their territory is. All these things discredit every argument I’ve seen from people who say it still works in canon. I mean, if you don’t go by the character reactions from the Arena episode. Which I do but the Gorn supporters don’t.
Yeah they definitely got carried away with it in Picard last season lol. If it was a smaller ship like Voyager, you can buy it a little more. Again, I didn’t mind it that much personally because it was soooo much fun to watch lol, but it made little sense on how these ships normally maneuvers. I don’t think they went that far with it this episode but I just have to watch it again.
True about the Gorn. I think in this case, once the other Starfleet ship went down in episode 9 last season and they got the report back just how dangerous they were, Starfleet decided to become more proactive about the situation and deal with them head on. Now before you start typing, I completely agree with you, it goes against canon to a ridiculous level lol. But same time, it would just make sense from a story point that these guys would now be on Starfleet’s radar, especially when La’An said that they were now expanding more beyond their territory which I thought was meant to sort of set up Arena. But now it feels like Starfleet knew where they were all along???? So doesn’t that just wipe out the entire point of Arena?
Yeah, I have to watch it again lol.
Maybe Geordi had so much free time on his hands he was able to add a million uber powerful thrusters to enable such quick maneuvers? One might think all of Star Fleet’s ships would have them at that point. But I digress.
I felt using the Gorn to begin with wiped out the entire plot of Arena. Not just the point of the episode. And my argument was that given the events in S1 of SNW it was reasonable Star Fleet would seek them out. Learn about them. Keep an eye on them. Now it seems they think Gorn are massing for a potential invasion! Even if this never happens it still destroys all the arguments people used to explain how it still works within canon. And cements my comments about why it just doesn’t work.
At this point the only way this works is if at the end of the series Pike wakes up and says, “it was all a dream…”
Yeah, it just doesn’t make any logical sense. TOS is still at least 5 years away and now Starfleet is actively seeking them out? It was already ridiculous to think no one knew who the Gorn was on the Enterprise in Arena when it was literally the same ship who encountered them before. But now it feels even more ridiculous when Starfleet themselves is forming tactic plans and has pinpointed their location.
Now, to be fair, this may be a way to explain how it lines up with Arena. They are well aware that it doesn’t line up and maybe they are doing a bit of retconing to get there. Obviously it may not be the case and they decided to just do their own thing. But I feel they will reach some kind of middle ground with it, but right now it just doesn’t make a lot of sense.
You have a lot more faith in this group than I do. And honestly I wish I could be more positive about it. I really do. If it really is part of a way to back themselves out of the corner they put themselves in then kudos to them for admitting they made a huge blunder. I just think the odds of that are very very low.
I listened to Anthony’s interview with Akiva on the podcast today, and he asked him that, flat out. Goldsman basically admits to not giving a crap, and that is why he is absolutely the wrong guy to be heading up this show. He’s a fan first, writer / show runner second.
He implied that he just doesn’t care about events on TOS? Really? I’m now wondering if I should look for this. Perhaps not. It might just ruin my day.
I haven’t listened to it yet, but that is surprising if true because Goldsman models himself as the ultimate TOS fanboy. So it’s weird he would just shrug it off and pretend it doesn’t matter when he out of ALL people know how important canon is in fandom. Did he not learn his lesson after getting beat up over it (even if they weren’t his own decisions) on Discovery?
And it’s usually the ultra fanboys who try to bend over backwards to make canon connect to everything like Mike McMahan is doing. Even if you hate Lower Decks, it’s obviously made by someone whose watched every single hour of Star Trek a dozen times. But here Goldsman sounds more like JJ Abrams who probably couldn’t be bothered to watch more than a few hours of it and willing to change whatever he wants without consequence.
This sounds like it’s heading down the wrong path and I’m not even that personally bothered.
Well you know I do try to look at everything as a glass half full situation first. This is me always trying to be diplomatic and civil.
But once that fails, I have no problem taking that same glass of water and throwing it in their face. ;D
And I agree with you, I too think the odds are low, but I’m hoping to be proven wrong and you know as bothered about the Gorn thing as you are. But yeah breaking canon is still breaking canon.
If it was a smaller ship like Voyager, you can buy it a little more.”
Ummm:
Voyager: 345 meters
Ncc-1701: ~289 meters
I was talking about the Enterprise….D. ;)
Oh, I thought you meant the “J”.
Lol
The J is even larger though.
You know, we’re in the vacuum of space here, so with a powerful enough engine I really don’t see why a large ship couldn’t maneuver as agiley as a small vessel. Totally different than moving against water or air currents.
That ship still has mass. It’s not that easy to move. Unless there is some sort of new thruster Geordi discovered dreamed up that no one had ever used before.
What I don’t like about Kurtzman’s Trek shows is the fact that they tend to rely on tropes almost all the time. If one show is using a trope, another one must use the same trope in some way. This diminishes the originality of the stories and comes off as lazy writing for me. It seems as though there is a directive among the shows that certain tropes must be used like “time travel, stealing the Enterprise, characters being related to each other, the use of catchphrases etc..” Modern writers shouldn’t be so scared about creating something original. Other than this I did generally enjoy the episode but yeah Spock’s emotionality and Chapel’s action hero antics didn’t sit right with me.
While I do agree with this, I do think the main problem is just running so many shows at the same time and you got show runners who grew up with these shows and basically want to recreate the same magic with similar stories. Meyers on SNW literally said they plucked stories from the other shows and just try to change them up a little to make a different version of it. But it’s also why so many complained about the first season because it was obvious they were just redoing popular story lines and not trying to do more original ideas.
But a great example I mean when it’s just too many shows on is that both SNW and PRO came up with the body switching idea. People thought PRO was just copying SNW when we know that’s obviously not true because PRO was already in production a full year before SNW was even announced. And in reality the two probably had no clue they were both making a similar story line being so far from production from each other. And when your settings between both shows are around 100+ years apart, there is probably no need to feel the need to talk to each other either.
Of course I agree, its always a plus when they come up with original stories. But same time, with over 800+ hours off stories and counting, it’s probably pretty hard to come up with any original concepts at this point. Basically every sci fi idea were all done by the Berman era. Everything now is just a different variation on a theme.
I too liked this episode but a few of the distracting negatives made me think it was only worthy of a 7/10 instead of an 8. You are a generous marker haha.
As for the Gorn, yeah clearly they have decided to ignore canon which is a negative, but like so many other less overt violations of continuity, it will be forgivable if they provide us with a good story. If not, then the producers and writers will deservedly be roasted.
A good start to S2 and looking forward to E2.
Actually DeanH after reading and listening to all the complaints from people, they have convinced me to lower it to a 7/10 as you. I first watched it at 2 in the morning and frankly just super excited Star Trek was running again lol. My fanboy side probably took over a bit too much and I really didn’t see the issues as much as others when I watched it. Now I’ve seen it twice and not at 2 in the morning and the episode had lost a bit of its gleam.
But still enjoyed it. But on second watch, man those slo mo fight scenes seem to go on waaaaay too long lol. It was a little too much. But I still loved the look of the episode in general, but yes it was flawed.
Really can’t wait for episode 2 either!
Weren’t there only two Crossfield Class ships? One was destroyed and the other is “destroyed.”
I don’t know, honestly, but this appears to be something unique anyway. Perhaps it was fabricated from the remains of the 2nd one? the only part that looked like the Discovery to me was the Saucer.
Yeah exactly. I didn’t even realize it was suppose to be the same class of ship as Discovery until I read this review. They look nothing alike (but I loved the ship design in this one), so why call it that?
I think it’s pretty easily explained. It seems like they may have built (rebuilt) from multiple ships, and since his has the primary hull from a Crossfield class, that’s why it’s identified as such.
OK thanks.
The ship was thrown together from disparate bits and pieces and my take on it is that Mitchell was just trying to figure out what the heck it was and merely making a tentative guess. Didn’t she say Crossfield class “I think”? Like she wasn’t really sure? After all, how many people ever saw one?
Is Discovery a “Crossfield” class? I forgot that completely. I thought it was just made up since that ship didn’t look like Discovery at all. The only similarity was gaps in the saucer. But in Discovery’s case I thought that was only for the benefit of the spore drive. Honestly I thought it was a way to shave costs on the CGI.
I figured it was done so they could use the interior sets of that show and not get called out for it. lol. And I say that jokingly, but I think that’s a smart budgetary decision.
If I understood what was said in the episode correctly… The helm said that it “looked” like a Crossfield Class. And when the transponder pinged, it was pinging as a Crossfield Class but didn’t give the name or registry of the ship. Which was obviously the fake transponder. I am guessing that they used what was left of the other Crossfield Class that was destroyed.
So I was both right and wrong about Pelia.
She does not come from the past but she is an alien who happens to be long-lived, which means the one Kirk and La’an meet in the past could be her, just her from the past.
Picard and Guinan all over again.
So it seems, yeah.
Yep, which I predicted would be the case and they will probably find her living on Earth in the past and seek her out because La’An knew her.
Yeah.
Impressive. They usually wait at least two seasons before re-doing the same plot.
At times I felt as though I was watching an episode of Discovery’s first season, just with better designed Klingons. The slow-motion shots, the fight scenes, the spinning camera work, the verbose pontificating, and even the sets- which, yes, I know are reused from DSC. Outside of the first ten minutes, it didn’t feel like an episode of SNW. I do like that SNW is referencing the that show’s lore, rather than ignoring it. But still… this episode felt off in *a lot* of ways.
First off, M’Benga was a completely different character. I have a hard time believing that the mild-mannered, softly-spoken Chief Medical Officer would willingly inject himself with a
convenient plot-devicesuper serum (essentially drugging himself) and then go on a mindless rampage around a fake Federation ship. The same goes for Chapel (is she in Starfleet or not? The show makes this *really* confusing. While the action scenes for these two were technically impressive, they didn’t work in the context of the characters. The writers clearly needed to fill up some time and lazily gave them a fight scene to do that.I usually like Ethan Peck’s portrayal of Spock, but this week it felt like a pastiche of Zachary Quinto’s version. It was hand waved away pretty early on, but it was still jarring to see him weeping over Chapel and clearly falling in love with her. They are obviously teeing up a love triangle between the two of them and T’Pring and in all honesty, I have absolutely no desire to watch that. Season One went to great lengths to show us Spock being in love with his fiancee and now he’s suddenly falling for Christine… who seemed to have a rather charged moment with M’Benga before the two of them shot themselves into space. Again, it’s lazy- and Jess Bush and Christine Chapel deserve better than being reduced to love interests.
And yet again, Ortega’s is reduced to being nothing more than a quip machine. The entire sequence of her, Uhura, and Mitchell needling Spock about his catchphrase made me cringe. I actually don’t mind the recurring joke in the newest shows, but it just didn’t work here because it felt awkward and cringy and essentially derailed the plot involving them stealing the Enterprise.
I know I’m not a great lover of SNW and I’ve detailed my thoughts on the lack of substance and soul elsewhere, but this episode really did miss the mark for me. The nods to Discovery well welcome for me, Pelia is a most intriguing character (although I do worry Kane’s delivery will grate at some point) and the CGI was gorgeous (the D-7? *chefs kiss*)… but on the whole this was a misfire, and for a season premiere, that’s quite worrying.
I agree completely. This show reminds me of a line from Squire of Gothos, wherein the Enterprise crew discover that Trelane can create the “form” of objects, but not the “substance.” This show “looks” right, but it is Star Trek in name only. Respect for the chain of command is completely ignored. Healers violating their Hippocratic Oath. Treating non-humans as “less than” worthy of living. Using slang to make the characters relatable to 2023 audiences. Injecting meaningless dialogue just to give the actors a line or two that neither helps the audience understand their characters or further the plot. Dr. Mumbles. The editing. The Chapel character. The Simka dialect. It was painful to watch.
Not a great start for this season, hope it gets better. You could tell Akiva Goldsman cowrote it from the amount of times I cringed because of clunky dialogue. Klingons are great, though. Still not sold on Pelia, but I love the actress so I guess I’ll warm up to her.
True, it is really obvious when Goldsman has a hand in writing any episode, for the worse, imo. Unfortunately he’s one of the guys with the keys to Star Trek now, and has no idea how to drive.
I find their reliance on the virtual set is very distracting. It doesn’t look convincing enough and really takes away from what they are trying to accomplish.
It’s the standard for modern TV and film production, so not much you can do about it. It’s either virtual or back to the cheap and redundant looks of TOS or the wash-and-repeat external shots of an “alien planet” shot in a forest in Canada. I personally don’t find it distracting, considering there were plenty of other elements to take away from the story (like the over use of slow-mo).
I will say.. even when it’s obvious, it’s used to pretty good effect, overall. I think they’ve done better with it than Star Wars has.. but most of what they use it for seems much more fantastical, which helps. I think it was a great solution for what appears to be a massive Engineering Set.
And it’s funny. I find what they did in engineering to look so artificial. It just looks like what I guess is the warp core now surrounded by an AR screen. I guess growing up with TNG/VOY/DS9 I got so used to more practical sets.
It really doesn’t come across any different than if it were blue screen and that backdrop added in post is all. It looks realistic enough.
When used correctly, it’s so much more seamless than most composited shots. The Mandalorian so often does wonders with it, but Obi Wan Kenobi had some difficulty. Same tech, different approaches.
I didn’t really have any quibbles about its use here. Discovery has done a lot of good with it, though I thought “The Examples” showed it’s still a learning curve. “All Those Who Wander” stretched things a bit too far for SNW, but it’s far easier to pick out when it looks off rather than when it works.
We’re a long way from Kate Mulgrew flinging herself over a railing in front of a greenscreen pretending a Borg cube is under attack.
I think Kenobi’s problem is the cinematographer and/or director didn’t know how to shoot it to their advantage. That show managed to make everything feel smaller. I think Kenobi was the worst use of the Volume to date. Whether it was too wide of lenses, or camera placement or what.. there’s a lack of technique at play there that detracted from the story being told. I think it’s a brilliant tool to expand storytelling and make things possible that otherwise aren’t.. and yeah, I can probably pick it out in most scenes since I know what to look for. That in and of itself doesn’t remove me from the scene. I think it mostly works in SNW, and I don’t mind it how they use it in Engineering, honestly.
As with Season 1, the amazing cast is truly let down by the quality / style of writing. I stopped watching Season 1 around 4 or 5 episodes in and with this I had to stop halfway through the episode. It is much harder to watch these shows after experiencing Picard Season 3. I don’t want to say anything extremely negative, I’m kind of too exhausted to even bother and I want to be polite. The cast just deserves so much more than what it is being given. This show could have been the best Star Trek ever.
Picard Season 3 wasn’t perfect either, but I really think it all comes down to the mindset and delivery. The TNG cast was taught to think of themselves as PROFESSIONALS who work in a professional environment. They rarely came off as just a bunch of good friends on a road-trip – which is exactly what I think the mentality is on the set of SNW. The discourse between characters, regardless of rank, is just too conversational and without decorum. Even in some of PIC season 3’s not-as-well-written scenes, it’s the professionalism and gravitas of the actors that make all the difference.
As a comparison, I was watching Voyager last night and it was an episode where Seven and Janeway were having a bit of a parent-vs-child encounter. Seven sounded ALOT like the crew from SNW, but Janeway maintained her composure (as she almost always did) and professional tone. She didn’t break down to approach Seven on her level because she understood chain of command. I really think that’s where SNW falls flat. Everybody is each other’s best friend, and they are just having a good ol’ time. And if you happen to be talking to a superior officer, oh well, they just have to accept you as you are.
Oh no, PS3 was far from perfect but it got much more right. It was the first season of current Trek that didn’t make me want to stop watching due to horrid dialogue amongst other reasons.
Yes, the way they speak to each other and conduct themselves turns me off completely. Then introduce super serums and needlessly long slow motion fight scenes and I’m just kind of done. lol
The discourse between characters, regardless of rank, is just too conversational and without decorum
I was an Air Force officer, and that’s kind of the way it was. We were plenty conversational with ourselves and with NCOs and enlisted.
The over-familiarity is jarring at times, but there were plenty of shades of this in TOS with McCoy and Scotty, then more in the TOS movies. I think we got used to how the dialogue in TNG-ENT is so stylized. It’s far in the future and it’s often very alluring, but it can also come across as overly-mannered and unrealistic at times, and of course we know the actors weren’t allowed to improvise, for better or worse. It’s particularly jarring in Enterprise when no one besides Trip regularly talks like anyone I know.
It’s too soon to tell about Season 2, but I thought Season 1 of Strange New Worlds was far, FAR better than Season 3 of Picard.
Luckily for us, both shows exist, so we each get something we like. :-)
It is always amazing how different people see stuff because I fell in love with the show by around episode 5. It wasn’t perfect but it felt SO inherently Star Trek the way DIS and PIC didn’t at the time.
I guess I don’t know what some people want in terms of the stories. This show went out of its way to tell the same stories and literally in basically the same way TOS and the other spin offs did at the time. You have every Trek trope out there from exploration to a dog fight with the enemy or weird trippy anomaly stuff again. Pike couldn’t be a more upstanding Starfleet captain if he tried. They literally refer to him as the boy scout. It’s a really feel good, optimistic and upbeat show which seems to be a huge reason why people like it.
Now I know the canon stuff is an issue, but I’m just talking about in general. I’m not an apologist, I have my issues too but I truly feel it’s getting things way more right than wrong IMO. And I loved Picard season 3 too, but it’s really hard to even compare the two because they just fundamentally feel so different from each other.
But yeah if the show sucks for you, it sucks. Nothing wrong to feel that way.
I agree about different people and different opinions. For example, I liked 9 of the 10 episodes of SNW Season 1, and I found “The Broken Circle” to continue that tradition and be excellent as well.
I don’t understand those opinions who think SNW is poorly written, and as much as I enjoyed PIC S3, I really can’t understand how people think it is better in writing quality than SNW. Sure the cast chemistry was great, but so is SNW’s; and it was nice to follow up on TNG-era story elements, but the serialized story had some significant issues. As good as some episodes were in PIC S3, Vadic was a terrible and underserviced villain for most of her screentime, the largely compelling changeling plot was quickly sidelined for the “cooler” Borg villain (but I like that they Borg were concluded) and finished off with a line of dialog and a single shot in a voiceover log entry. And, man, were there some clunky decisions and scenes like where Picard or Geordi just repeated known stuff for minutes on end until other plot threads resolved, that the “entirety” of Starfleet was supposedly at Earth (which, ok, was implied to be a result of the changeling plot) but only ~100 starships were shown when in DS9 there were multiple fleets of hundreds of starships each, and Jack goes from rando criminal to fully commissioned ensign in 12 months because of “reasons”, and don’t even get me started on the offsite Daystrom/Section 31 base being protected by a wack-a-doodle AI system that can’t be trusted to guard a henhouse (and failed to do it’s job twice).
As for SNW, I don’t have the hang up about “naturalistic dialog” that a lot of people here seem to have. For two reasons: 1) TNG-era had the most “uptight” dialog because they were the more Roddenberry-esque “evolved” humans, and 2) not every crew has to have the same exact level of familiarity and chemistry. If you want to go all “in-universe” about it, the tone of the ships can be dependent on the captain. Picard was more by-the-book proper. Sisko was a little less, and even less so as the seasons went on. Pike is the friendly, pancake-cooking father/heart of the crew for SNW and clearly encourages the familial atmosphere. And I am super glad SNW decided to flesh out Una, M’Benga, and Chapel, not to mention Uhura. Not only are they actually full, interesting characters, but we have gotten more development from them in 11 episodes than all of TOS/TOS movies, and more than all of the “other” bridge characters in 4 seasons of DIS. To hold on to the scrap one or two things we knew about the boring TOS characters would be a waste of potential just to keep 100% in line with already vague canon.
Yeah subjectivity is so hard to pin down at times, especially for Star Trek fans lol. And what I mean is even when a show give us ALL the elements we claim to want or yell about in a show, opinions still can vary wildly, but I guess it also comes down to execution too.
To me personally I think SNW corrected about 90% of the issues I had with Discovery for example sort of the same way I thought Picard season 3 corrected about the same with Picard first two seasons. So that’s why I’m generally happy with both but can acknowledge neither one is perfect and I have still have issues with them. With SNW specifically it’s mainly the canon issues but as I have said I don’t let them deter me from seeing the overall quality of the show and exactly why I loved 8 out of the 10 episodes last season. And ironically I loved 8 out of 10 episodes of Picard season 3.
But I’ll even go as far to say Picard season 3 had bigger issues than SNW season 1 and yeah that’s mostly due to it being so serialized as you pointed out and the reasons why DIS and Picard first two seasons had so many issues too. That just seems to be a hard nut to crack with these shows, but I thought Picard S3 was easily the most successful of them all (even if still HEAVILY flawed).
But I understand there are people who think SNW is still missing the mark overall regardless of canon issues just as much as people who thought Picard season 3 did. I just have a problem understanding how it misses it so badly when it fits into any classic Star Trek show from TOS to ENT. They have executed the formula well overall IF that’s what you want. If you don’t want that and something more innovative and different, then OK, I get that too. I just think they are playing it safe after being yelled at for five years with fans shouting ‘THAT’S NOT HOW YOU DO STAR TREK MORONS!!’
So they went back to the source as best they could. I’ve always said SNW is really comfort food of the highest order. You get the original Enterprise back, sooo many TOS characters lol, a standalone 45-50 minute story where everything is wrapped up neatly by the end, Pike usually gives a nice little uplifting speech, every one smiles and they warp out to the next destination knowing the galaxy is safe once again. That’s the Star Trek we all grew up with and for many they will happily take that again and again.
But others are more critical and that’s fine too.
Totally agree!
Can get behind all of the Ometiklan.
Canon is vague, and many people are getting caught up in passed down traditions of headcanon generated in some mimeoed fanzines in the 70s as opposed to what TOS actually showed us onscreen.
Been watching since ’66 and this is greatest episode of Star Trek ever! Everything was absolutely perfect.
The greatest episode ever? Seriously?
Okay…among the best.
This show just seems to hit all the right note for those of us who’ve been with the franchise since TOS was in first run.
(I admit that I always have a silly smile during the main title sequence.)
The fact that it’s resonating with new fans and casual is great.
I’m surprised by the volume of critiques here, but as I said on another thread recently, this place has become more of a TNG Berman-era board. They’re focused on different things it seems.
Even the folks who came to the franchise watching the TOS syndicated reruns in the 70s and 80s seem less aware how joyfully SNW captures some of the things and the vibe that TOS had in the 60s.
I’ve been a Trek fan since TOS, and that era is easily my favorite. , and It doesn’t do that for me at all. If you love it, then I’m certainly (and sincerely) happy for you, but it hits very few notes for me.
I’m definitely a bigger TNG/Berman-era fan overall, but my first love was TOS. I even got turned off from TNG in first-run (at least until season 4) and it actually strengthened my fandom for TOS. So by no means do I feel like I can’t appreciate TOS. Even then, I fail to see how SNW is so much better or exactly what notes it hits that resonate with fans from the 60’s/70’s that younger fans can’t appreciate.
In regard to this specific post: My biggest issue with calling this episode “the greatest” is that, even if you weren’t a Berman-era fan, I thought one of the biggest things people love about TOS is that it is an exploration show and that it hits on important topics in ways other non-sci-fi shows couldn’t. But this particular episode doesn’t really do much in the way of exploration (we’ve seen the Klingons for decades and dilithium has been a part of Star Trek from season 1 of TOS). As for exploring an important topic, there wasn’t much there either. The topic I got out of it was people dealing with fall-out from war. Maybe somewhat relevant if you live in the Ukraine or Russia right now, but not hitting a lot of casual viewers in the Western World at the moment.
The only thing I can see from this episode that is more TOS-like to me than perhaps what we usually saw in the Berman-era was an extended fight sequence just for the sake of fighting. But even then, it was extended mainly due to the use of slow-motion, which was OVERKILL and never really used for that purpose in TOS.
And lastly, if the connection to TOS is characters, then I guess I don’t get it. Canon is literally to the wayside at this point, and nothing is sacred. I don’t really have a problem with that based on the idea that I’ve just accepted that SNW is not really in the prime timeline – that this is just another alternative take on the Star Trek universe. But if that’s the case, then it really doesn’t tie to TOS either.
I know it’s all just a matter of preference, but on the level of great Star Trek episodes (TOS definitely included), I just don’t feel like “The Broken Circle” is on that list.
I first saw Star Trek in 1969, during the summer reruns of the third season of TOS. (I didn’t know that the third season was supposed to be the “bad” season of TOS; it was the first Star Trek I ever saw, and I adored it.)
To me, SNW feels like TOS perfected. It has that TOS vibe, but it’s made with modern effects and budgets, and it has ditched the unconscious sexism that makes TOS look so dated to a lot of young people.
I don’t care for the way SNW is writing Vulcans, and I usually take Vulcans ridiculously seriously. For most shows, getting the Vulcans wrong would be a killer for me. But this show is so very good that I’m willing to overlook them having Spock and T’Pring kissing rather than stroking fingers and stuff like that.
I guess that’s me. I grew up on the reruns in the 70’s and own the series on disc. Seen every episode many times. I’m not picking up on any TOS vibes here in any way shape or form. It really feels more like if Star Trek Discovery was episodic.
“I’m surprised by the volume of critiques here, but as I said on another thread recently, this place has become more of a TNG Berman-era board. They’re focused on different things it seems.”
Dude I really really wish you stop saying stuff like this. It’s just eye rolling to me. You’re basically saying people don’t like something because they were fans of another show instead of just judging the show on its own merits. As if they can’t like the show because they simply feel it’s lackluster on its own. No believe it or not, plenty of people here CAN be TOS fans and still have issues with the show. ML31 is the perfect example. He is a dye in the wool TOS fan as you can get and it’s BECAUSE he’s such a big TOS fan he has problems with the show. It’s definitely not due to his love of TNG lol.
Who are all the people having issues with the canon issues on this show? It’s certainly not non-TOS fans if they never watched or cared about that show, right? It’s obviously the people who watch TOS.
I also grew up with TOS and I wouldn’t be a fan of Trek without it. I definitely became a bigger Berman era fan but guess what I still love SNW because I still love TOS too. I’m sure a lot of people are in that category as well.
This was the same arguments when Discovery started and people said the only fans who hated the show were TNG fans. Well that turned out not to be the case. People also used this argument with the Kelvin movies which was just as ridiculous as well. Maybe just maybe a lot of fans of Star Trek don’t seem themselves loyal to one era or generation and are big fans as a whole who can just not like a show for any particular reason. But unfortunately you do this a lot.
You also use ‘it’s the myopic Americans’ angle when people disagree over something you like or hate. In fact you literally suggested a guy was American in a thread about the Legacy show when someone posted how much they want to see it happen and he was in fact German.
Can we just disagree with people without constantly feeling the need to label them all the time?
For the record I really like DS9, too. And to a lesser extent, Voyager. It is possible to have a favorite and like other Trek shows, too.
Oh yeah, I’m aware. It’s why I singled out TNG specifically. ;)
And yes, we can all put one show on top but still love other things. DS9 is my favorite show bar none and a big reason why I am such a Berman era fan in general. But please don’t put me in a box. I don’t give two shits if it’s Berman, Bennet, Abrams or Kurtzman era, I love it because it’s all still Star Trek first and foremost. It’s just a real pet peeve of mine and all you are doing is dividing people instead of simply having a conversation and ask them why they feel that way instead of just assuming they just don’t like something because of what year they were born. Sigh
And SNW is as Berman esque Star Trek you can get. That was put to the rest when another TOS fan here made this big claim they love SNW because it’s nothing like Berman Trek. I simply asked them to give me one episode that couldn’t fit into a typical format/story of TNG, VOY or ENT and they couldn’t do it lol. There are plenty of examples where that isn’t the case for DIS or PIC but not for SNW. SNW is more TNG than Picard is lol. Just more proof people just want to see what they see I guess. But It’s one of the reasons why I think people love the show so much now.
And lastly end of the day Berman era started out as Roddenberry era Trek. Berman didn’t make TNG, Roddenberry did and Berman just copied that style in all the other shows he created for the most part. So it’s another one of these silly misnomers people use over and over again.
Fair enough. But I feel I should add that I don’t hold GR up to any kind of high level. I credit him for creating the concept but do not hold him responsible for what the show eventually became. To this day I consider Star Trek a mistake from him. Of the other things I’ve seen from him I haven’t considered them all that good. And I totally believe the stories that say Trek didn’t really start to gel until Gene Coon was given more control. This is given credence as TNG didn’t really get better until after Berman gained more control. Remember, GR was against the casting of Stewart! He had to get talked into it. I consider Trek a success in spite of GR. Not because of him.
I agree with all of this. Of course I like Roddenberry and there would be no show without him. But I also know most of my favorite Trek are either things he had nothing to do with or actually out right rejected. So I don’t put the guy on a pedestal like he’s some kind of God and yes there are plenty of others who made Trek great during and after him like Gene Coon, Rick Berman, Nic Meyers, Harve Bennet, Michael Piller, Ira Steven Behr, Ron Moore, Manny Coto and on and on.
But all of that stems from his creation so that alone will always make him important to the franchise.
Dude, I think we’re going to need to agree not to talk to one another here.
Not long ago someone called you out for bullying in response to your reaction to one of my comments.
I wasn’t ready to go that far, but you’re going too far. You’ve decided to badger me now. I took one of your earlier critiques as well intentioned, as I had previously seen you as one of the more positive voices here, but now you’re behaving like a self-appointed enforcer.
You’ve taken exception to my repeated requests for folks to not pit fans of one show against another, yet you’re coming at me for trying to constructively understand what’s making it hard for us all to have constructive conversations here.
I do find it interesting that there are some generational differences in how different people here look at some of this stuff.
As you know, I really don’t like fan groups pitting themselves against one another and will call that out. Trying to understand so we can all chill and accept differences in perspective is a good thing in my view.
What I can acknowledge though is our first experiences of Trek, and the culture we were living in at the time, will influence our emotional reactions to new content.
I loved TNG in first run and must have seen every episode at least 3 times before the next one ran. For a long time I would have said TNG was my peak Trek experience.
But I just couldn’t relate to the emotional reactions many people had to Picard S3. And I note there’s others in my (older) age group who say the same.
Now, I see here and other places how SNW brings out a certain joy that we older fans got watching TOS in first run. But I hear a significant number of fans who got into TOS in reruns saying it doesn’t hit the same for them (you seem to be an exception).
When I started lurking here, I was surprised how TOS focused many of the people commenting here were.
It seems like many of those folks have moved on. It just seems more noticeable this year as if a critical mass of change has happened.
As a few others have said, if this is going to be a place where brigading fans can make others unwelcome, this will make more folks here peace out.
How am I being a bully? I’m saying I disagree with you making assumptions about people just because they have a different opinion than you about a TV show. You think that’s OK to do that? As I literally just said, you called out another person as being American because he’s very passionate about wanting the Legacy show in another thread although he was German. That’s my only point. And you seem to be the only one who does this here. Can you point out anyone else?
But I won’t make a big fuss about it, so that’s cool. I just think it’s wrong to call out people by their nationality, race or yes what fandom they like UNLESS they simply tell you directly, that’s all. I’m not getting on your case about any of your opinions, just your assumptions about other people who simply don’t share yours. But OK I understand your point more now.
We used to agree so much here that I think we were both accused of being each other sock puppets at a time lol. Those days are certainly gone. But I respect you man, truthfully and I always value what you have to say. I always want to hear what you think about a show or an episode. But you seem to be taking some of these opinions too personally lately IMO. Some people just don’t like certain shows just like you didn’t like Picard by the end. But that’s your right too of course.
And yes, you could be right, maybe more TOS fans have moved on. But that’s not a shock either. There is only one TOS show on at the moment, right? All the rest takes place in the 24th, 25th and 32nd century. And from 2020-2022, every show on was a post-Nemesis show. Wow, I didn’t realize that until I typed it lol.
And it will probably be the only one until it ends and replaced with something else.
You repeatedly and viciously go after anybody who has the temerity to hold a different opinion to you. You’ve done it to *at least* three members of this community and you even chased me off this site for several weeks because of your persistent attacks, all because I’m not all that taken with SNW. You have to enforce your views on everyone and you seem offended by people offering alternate takes. You might have an extensive vocabulary but not amount of essay writing can disguise the fact that at heart, you *are* a bully.
Dude, that has never happened. Not once. Not ever. And you have claimed multiple other people have attacked you.
If I have chased you off this board for weeks due my ‘persistent attacks against you, then post your evidence. Nothing and I mean N-O-T-H-I-N-G has been ever erased from this board since 2006. So please link all the posts, threads or even just the articles where you claim I have done this to you multiple times. I’m going to stress this again:
“You even chased me off this site for several weeks because of your persistent attacks, all because I’m not all that taken with SNW.”
This is YOUR quote! So find me one post M1701, O-N-E post where I ‘attacked’ you for not liking SNW lol. It boggles the mind. I have made 30 posts in this thread. How many people have I ‘attacked’ for not liking this episode? I think you have me confused with AlphaPradetor.
But you made the accusation, so find me one.
Let’s make it a game.This is going to be fun!!!!! For every bored poster reading this, I implore you to help M1701 in his quest and to find ONE post where I have attacked this guy for daring to not like SNW. And if you find that post, I will humbly apologize and I will leave this board for good. NOT disagreeing, but ATTACKING him (his words) for not liking it. i’m not asking anyone to find 100 posts or 50 posts or even 10 posts. I’m asking you to find one. That includes the three other members I have supposedly chastised here for not liking SNW either. I don’t know who they are, but you guys know who you are! So now vengeance has arrived. ;)
To prove I am a pariah. I will stress again, nothing gets erased, ever, so it should be a backlog of me chastising, attacking, bulling, trying to get banned and calling people names who has gone off the beaten path for daring to not like this show.
So M1701, you will get your wish very soon as I imagine all my enemies are now scouring this site to finally rid me from here forever. I hear good things TrekBBS so I can make a home there.
But when you disappear for good (because you will) and can’t find me one post that you claimed I bullied you, I want this from you and that is to ignore me as I asked you three times already in the last year. I don’t want to talk to you. I don’t care about your opinions man, even if you said you think Pike sucks at cooking. That’s totally wrong, but whatever. But I will h-a-p-p-i-l-y never talk to you as I asked you multiple times now. This will now be the fourth time.
Deal?
And every time you make this silly accusation against me I’m going to post this. So show me one link dude or go away and leave the hell alone for good already.
I’m going to say it for the hundred time, this is why we need an ignore button here.
For everyone playing at home, you can start to find all my damming posts against M1701, right here on this very board and you will see all his posts he posted so far, but what you will definitely not find is me responding to any of them. Why? Because I am IGNORING him like I have for nearly a year now. And because I do not care about this guy’s opinion or what he has to say about a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g, good or bad.
But according to him, since I’m such a bully to multiple people here who hates SNW, then it should be as easy to find them as it is like finding a classified document at Mar-a-Lago. In other words, they should be everywhere. ;)
I’m going to sweeten the deal, you find one post and I will not only leave this board forever, I will also admit to Phil his opinions don’t all suck (but they really do though). That ones not easy. I would rather just take the banishment.
Good luck out there!
And this ISN’T bullying? Encouraging others to attack me and prove me wrong? Going after me in a hateful rant, saying I’m uninmportant? Wow, I dread to think what you actually think bullying is.
You’re a nasty, toxic little person and you’ve just exposed yourself for the entire community to see. Get yourself help, this level of vitriol isn’t normal.
“And this ISN’T bullying? Encouraging others to attack me and prove me wrong? Going after me in a hateful rant, saying I’m uninmportant? Wow, I dread to think what you actually think bullying is.
You’re a nasty, toxic little person and you’ve just exposed yourself for the entire community to see. Get yourself help, this level of vitriol isn’t normal.”
This is exactly my point. This is it right here. The guy can’t even read the posts correctly lol.
This is what happens when you process with your emotions and feelings rather than your brain. You’re wasting your time with this one Tiger2…
Again, you’re right. It’s just frustrating. I don’t understand how I manage to attract this type of weird attention over and over again. I have never initiated conversation with this guy. We’ve had maybe 2-3 exchanges at best. I have never remotely cared about his opinion on anything. And yet, here he is calling me the devil lol. And that I have taunted him so much apparently he needed counseling over it. And he’s going on and on how I can’t handle differences of opinion or that I’m shoving my views down people’s throats and he apparently hasn’t read a single post I made here if he believes that.
It’s so bizarre. Again, I’m not perfect but it’s pretty easy to prove what he’s been accusing me of doing on a public message board for months now. But of course, like clockwork he’s presented absolutely nothing. Not a single shred of proof at all. Sigh
Again…frustrating. And like AlphaPradator I’ve asked him to just ignore each other since I have never had a real conversation with him anyway.
But I know, it’s the internet, you get all kinds of crazy personalities here and most eventually come and go. So I’m moving on now.
For the record, this is the ONLY time I’ve had an actual conversation with M107 and where all this originally stem from. Just copy and paste:
trekmovie.com/2022/09/20/interview-star-trek-strange-new-worlds-showrunner-on-how-season-2-is-bigger-crazier-and-stranger/#comments
I made the very first post in this thread and had conversations with various posters I like and respect….and ML31! ;)
But KEEP scrolling half-way down you will see M1701 where we start to argue.
Keep a few things in mind.
-The conversation was actually about Discovery, not SNW. It was mentioned only. So he can’t even remember what the conversation was about.
-He responded to me first, not the other way around. ;)
-This is the biggest irony, but he’s actually attacking ME because what I said about Discovery in my OP which was (wait for it) “Some of the canon stuff bothered me but not to the level it took away from the show, unlike Discovery’s first season (but it had muuuch bigger canon issues ;)).:
-I never ‘bullied’ him, never called him a name. It’s all there for people to read. I was simply tired of him accusing others of hating the show (again irony) and then getting offended over what I said. And ever since then, I been accused of bullying him after this one exchange we from 9 months ago.
-I have been ignoring this guy ever since. There is no other long exchanges with him. If I’m wrong then he should easily show all the links that prove that as I just did it. So M1701, it’s put up or shut up time!
You have been accusing me of harassing and bullying you for six months now. It’s slander and it’s wrong dude. I will keep my promise, I will leave this board ASAP. I have just made my defense. So where is yours? Show your evidence or leave me alone!
….waiting.
You repeatedly and viciously go after anybody who has the temerity to hold a different opinion to you. You’ve done it to *at least* three members of this community and you even chased me off this site for several weeks because of your persistent attacks, all because I’m not all that taken with SNW. You have to enforce your views on everyone and you seem offended by people offering alternate takes. You might have an extensive vocabulary but not amount of essay writing can disguise the fact that at heart, you *are* a bully.
I’m going to stress this again and again and again. Based on WHAT? Then please show it or move on already. Seriously. Who are the three other people I have ‘persistently’ attacked? Can you name them please? And Phil doesn’t count.
And the biggest irony is you said this in a thread where A. I have not attacked anyone for not liking the show and B. I have actually agreed with people who had problems with the episode lol.
You can’t even prove any of this in this thread and I been posting hours here before you made this ridiculous accusation. M1701, it’s time to lay out your case homeboy. ;)
But TrekBBS looks like they have nice people there. I’m hoping they at least have an ignore button.
Actually thinking about it a little more, three years went by until they returned to the TOS era since DIS season 2 ended around April or May in 2019 and SNW first premiered in May 2022. That’s a long time if you’re just looking for TOS era based stories. But it’s still nothing compared to waiting between 1991 through 2009. ;D
But that could explain if people have left if they were only focused on that era and maybe SNW hasn’t drawn that many back. I have no idea, just speculation.
Alternatively, maybe — wait for it — the Berman era shows simply are objectively better than the Kurtzman-era shows in every way, shape, and form.
They are certainly better to me, but, trying to be fair, the oldest Kurtzman show is only 4 years old right now. Think about that? Yes we’ve had many seasons and shows now, but they are still mostly in the infant stage. And I will say every show seems to get better than the last, at least generally.
But it’s going to take a long time to love these shows the way I love the classic shows. But like most of us, a bit of that is nostalgia obviously.
Wow…just wow. Good for you.
Last season the show wasn’t crap. It wasn’t good either. Overall it was less than mediocre. But this episode is easily the worst of the 11. The plot was ridiculous the Spock-Chapel relationship they are building towards is just… Cringe. Not sure why they needed to come up with a reason for Spock to show more emotion. He’s a character in turmoil already. Unless they think today’s audiences can’t understand that when done more subtlety. Pellia seems to be the new Guinan. And of course she has a history with a character. Because… They have to now I guess. I wasn’t all that impressed with her. But first impressions aren’t entirely fair. It took a bit of time for the DS9 characters to grow on me. But then they had over 20 episodes a season to do that. Seems a tall order for a character that probably won’t get used a lot over a mere 10 episodes.
And then there was that teaser at the end. Which is funny because if it goes where it looks to be going it blows out all the arguments that have been made trying to twist and bend and alter the obviously clear idea that “Arena” was the first time anyone in the Federation or Star Fleet had ever heard the word Gorn. Much less had an encounter with their ships. None of this is surprising.
Yeah, the “I know your mother” drop was a bit cheesy to me. It’s becoming the “Six Degrees of Spock” running gag with these new run of shows. Even the cross-over with LDS is supposed to have part of the storyline based strongly on Boimler fan-girling over meeting Spock. But in this particular case, Pelia is supposed to have spent a lot of time on Earth, so aren’t there like several billion other humans to have “come out” to? I wonder if Pelia also happens to know Spock’s adopted sister that no-one else knows about….
To be fair to Bradward. He’s from the future. Spock is an icon by then. You can’t be in Starfleet without knowing who he is.
Yeah Spock is considered a legend in the 24th century and he’s probably mandatory reading at the Academy. If nothing else, he will always be the guy who helped shepherd peace between the Federation and the Klingons which everyone in Cerritos time very much enjoys. And it’s actually why I liked this episode, because it basically foreshadowed TUC which I thought was great.
Dude I KNEW you were going to hate this episode lol. But you seem to be in good company. I’m one of the freaks who thought it was OK and generally liked it. It certainly wasn’t perfect but I really liked the story line overall. But yeah I could tell with Pelia she was going to be loved or hated with her very first scene on the bridge. But this is kind of what Carol Kane does and known for, so people can’t be too surprised. But yeah, it can feel a bit much too. I think I will like her personally but I also thought I was going to like Raffi when she first appeared.
The Gorn stuff is only going to get worse and yes it should surprise no one at this point. And I hope people stop doing the silly mental gymnastics and try to spare out the canon problems by saying because this person wasn’t in the room at the time, it still keeps to canon, etc. It’s so ridiculous. But I’m willing to see where they will go with the Gorn but yes 100% agree, it would’ve been a better idea to just use a new species or whose origin story hasn’t really been told like the Breen or the Cardassians. Mix it up a bit! But the show runners just really love the Gorn so it’s why are getting what we are getting.
I did say my impression of Pella could change. I think it will depend more on what they do with her. Giving her a Spock connection honestly doesn’t help. BTW… I wasn’t a fan of Bashir when I first saw him but he was one of the people who grew on me. Although I liked Sisko the instant he hit the screen. And as you know he is now my 2nd favorite Captain in the franchise.
Yeah a lot of people didn’t like Bashir at the time and he became a big fan favorite by the end of the show. In fact, I had completely forgot how much Bashir was hated and I even include myself lol. I grew to love Bashir so much from season 3 on, it wasn’t until I rewatched the show the first time to remember how annoying I thought he was. I also remember reading the DS9 bible in the show’s early days and one of the things that was in there was that he and O’Brien were best friends which seemed crazy then because O’Brien thought Bashir was annoying as everyone else in first season lol. I had completely forgot how much O’Brien hated him originally and by the end they were like Siamese twins.
Again, it just speaks to the brilliance of that show and how you can really develop a character when you have great writers. I like SNW, but no I don’t think the writers are anywhere close to that caliber, at least not yet. A hundred times better than what you get on Discovery at least. ;)
Also this speaks the the value of the longer seasons. I have doubts that a character like Bashir could have been saved over 2 or three 10 episode seasons over a year apart. As the longer seasons go, good producers and writers can see how things are going and can start doing things with a character to help. To be fair, DS9 did have some dog episodes. That is one of the downsides to the longer season. But overall there was more positive than negative from that group. And even if SNW writers were 1/2 the caliber of the DS9 group they are still handicapped by the short season. That’s one of the reasons why I’m not a fan of the current trend for short season shows.
“…Although he may have over-indulged on the slow-mo a bit.”
You can say that again. I don’t usually keep up with directors, but I’ll keep the name Chris Fisher as a warning in the future. As much as a I was a thrown off by the “super serum”, the slow-mo fight scene that was stretched to 5+ minutes really threw me for a loop. All I kept thinking was about how much time they were wasting, and it really made me wonder if the content was really that thin for this episode. You have a total of 10 episodes in a season, and you already have to stretch time on the first one??!?
Beyond that, I think I have finally put myself in the camp of thinking that SNW is in an alternative universe. It think it’s the only way to enjoy it. There’s just too much other stuff that doesn’t gel with canon, and it’s only going to get worse this season. I can accept that Spock has an OCCASIONAL emotional out-burst, but the guy spent the entire first part of his life trying to fit in on Vulcan. He worked to earn the respect of his father, and we know that the struggle led to a difficult relationship between the two. If Sarek saw Spock acting like he was in this episode, he’d probably disown him – again. I have a hard time believing he would still be this out-of-control, even with what happened in the Gorn episode.
But if I put canon aside, I can appreciate most of the cast, and I personally even enjoyed the edition of Pelia. Yes, I think she’s going to really split the fan-base, but I also think she might bring some experience and insight to a crew that feels very young.
At the end of the day, I don’t think this was necessarily the best way to start back the second season, but it was good to see that the show can hold it’s own even without two of the top-billed actors. I just hope SNW doesn’t go too far off the rails. I can handle the “survive one minute in space” concept to get things going, but I hope they start adding some real science to the science-fiction soon.
For the record, Archer was similarly rescued. He blew himself out an airlock of Cold Station 1 to avoid infectious diseases coming his way. Was exposed for only 3-4 seconds before beaming out, though.
All the spinning camera work to mimic what the ship was doing… I hate it. Too distracting. Sometimes it’s best to just keep it simple.
Yep, another reason for me to put Chris Fisher on the list. Z-axis rolls make almost no sense other than for establishing point of view or in an over the top art-flick. In this case, we’ve got artificial gravity, so no one should even know the ship is spinning…
But how else will he prove that he’s a director?
I really loved the episode! Very excited for next week and for All Access’s review tomorrow!
why are there so many Commanders and Lt.Commanders on board. I think the production staff, who grew up on TNG are still confused with OG series rank insignias..
Akiva Goldsman is a show runner and he’s been a fan of Trek since the first year TOS premiered and makes a point of mentioning he was at the first Trek convention in the early 70s. So it isn’t that.
LOL!
That is just evidence that being a fan doesn’t automatically qualify someone to be a show runner of that thing you are a fan of.
Maybe so, but they need to sort it out. Its distracting. Una is called a Lt.Commander, with Commander stripes. Spock is called a Lt., with Lt,Commander stripes. The navigator and helmsman are called Lt.’s with Lt.Commander’s stripes. The new engineer is called a Commander with the same stripes as Lt.Spock. Why is Chapel wearing Commander’s stripes? Its all over the map.
Fair enough. And I wasn’t defending Goldsman, I was just stating a fact.
“…the two healers turn into fighting machines, effortlessly taking down the guards.” – none of whom seem to have a disruptor or phaser. Heh. Oh well.
Also – “archeological medicine” sabbatical? Sounds like someone’s off to go meet a certain Dr. Roger Korby.
How about a bat’leth? It’s hand-to-hand combat, so I forgive them not using a disrupter. But what Klingon wouldn’t pull out a sword or dagger. I mean, I guess there was ONE….
I was wondering why no one grabbed a disrupter before heading into this. And if the argument is they aren’t always armed don’t they keep a dagger on them? But after a while one would think some kind of weapon would have been brought into this.
“The plot of The Broken Circle, an alliance of greedy humans and Klingons willing to start a war for profit using a “false flag”is also a nice little contemporary allegory for all those who use misinformation and want to profit from keeping people fighting.”
The allegory here is weak. Very weak. That is because the story has no allegory at all. S1 premier was amazing because it was Star Trek firing on all cylinders. It was episodic, introduced new characters, a new world, but most importantly, it had a Roddenberry message that took on today’s troubles. This episode did not live up to the power of S1. The logic of the plot was stupid.
However, I did enjoy it, but felt it was missing intelligence.
I just made a comment on an earlier post arguing about how one of TOS’s strongest elements was approaching an important topic that other non-sci-fi shows might not be able to touch. But I agree that this episode didn’t have any allegory – especially in regard to misinformation and people profiting from fighting. If anything, it was yet another “war is hell” story, and the allegory from that is “war is hell”. There ya go….
Overall enjoyed the episode, though I can see it missing the mark for some folks. De gustibus non disputandem est and all that.
I love it when an episode starts with a Captain’s Log. That’s what I want! Gimme that context.
A wild conspiracy-theory thought: was the inclusion of a “Crossfield class” ship that doesn’t quite look how we would expect it to getting blown up by Enterprise a subtle dig at DSC? I’m almost certainly reading too much into that.
I’m guessing the Klingons assembled the ship from parts of ships they destroyed during the war, so the fact that it didn’t seem to hang together was intentional but not a dig at anybody.
I theorized that the Discovery and Spore Drive were so classified that Starfleet even redesigned a design the Crossfield Class in place of the existing.
Helluva episode. If the rest of the season fires on all cylinders, Paramount will have a winner here….
Yeah I really liked it too but I think we are definitely in the minority with this one lol.
Nah, the people taking a piss on it are the ones you could bet the farm on would do it.
Maybe true but I’m looking at some of the more positive Youtuber reviewers and they are a bit mixed on it as well. I just don’t think this episode is a home run the way the first episode was in first season.
I enjoyed it. And one of the things I disliked enough to actually gripe about isn’t even confined to SNW (that being that I’d be sincerely grateful if SH stopped trying to make individual captain catch-phrases a thing).
NICE! :)
And yes I hate the whole catch phrase thing myself and pointed it out in my review. I’m hoping that’s the last one we’ll get this season. But it’s funny every NuTrek show has done it at least once so far minus Prodigy. And if I’m wrong on that one, I hope someone corrects me.
My suspicion is it’s something the creatives have been told to include from higher up. There’s something about it that smacks of branding, and the way it comes up in conversation always feels inorganic.The catch phrases themselves are fine, it’s just the notion that every captain tries to find a unique engage order or that the crew waits with bated breath to know what the captain has picked that seems weird and forced.
Agreed. The “what’s your catchphrase going to be?” scene at the end of PIC was really cringe.
If it can be copyrighted, it will. It’s not just the catchphrase, but emblems and colors that identify the species….
I can live without the catchphrase, but that’s not a huge nitpick for me. I don’t know why I’ve just noticed this more, recently, but watching someone jump out the path of phaser/disruptor fire is really irritating me. Thats a directed energy weapon, coming at you at the speed of frackin light!! Your reflexes aren’t that damn fast!! Every series has done it, too!!
Rant over….
It’s kind of fun romp… but that comes at a the price of having characters act in ways that make no sense, and hand waving away things we already know.. all of which takes some/most of us out of the episode. That’s more of my problem. It insults my intelligence. In today’s age of big budgets and time to develop these properties, it can be better. That’s all.
OK fair enough. And I watched it a second time and I obviously see what people are talking about. And as said, I been critical of things about it as well, the biggest issue with certain characterizations that just doesn’t hold water but unfortunately we know is only going to get worse. I just happen to still enjoy it.
I’d never take anything away from loving what they love. I really want to love this show. It has so many things going for it.. Outside of some quibbles, I think it looks great (Space being so colorful all the time notwithstanding), I think the cast is great. I Love having the episodic format back. But I just keep going back to something I heard Vince Gilligan say on the Better Call Saul after show podcast that resonates with me… Part of his mantra to his writers was – you can’t have smart characters act inexplicably stupid (or out of character, perhaps) for the purpose of plot expediency. I feel like we see far too much of that on this show.
And I know you do, you just have issues with it and that’s OK. That’s why we have message boards, to praise or fawn over something when we’re impressed or to rant and vent about things when we’re not so impressed. Some guy has been going on and on about how I can’t accept anyone’s opinions here when I literally say this over and over again in multiple variations to people here. No one should feel bad for not liking a show or getting attacked over it as long as they are not attacking others themselves.
As you know I do like SNW, but I also know the show has problems like every show. I think most people DO really love the show but I also think because it’s just giving them what they been wanting in Star Trek again since Enterprise went off the air (and I don’t mean they particularly love that show just the basic format and one that’s actually about exploration again). And even better for some since it’s a return to TOS basically. I mean even Kirk is back lol. But for many people out there, that will be enough, especially if they have been disappointed with the live action shows like DIS and PIC or can’t really get into the animated shows.
SNW is oddly the perfect intersection that can reach any fan old or new and is harmless or non-threatening enough for anyone to watch and at practically any age. It’s an intelligent show but not intellectual the way TNG has been accused of. It’s not complicated in any way either the way DS9 was and it’s not focused on allegory so much like other shows are. It’s mostly breezy and light which is not a bad thing at all (a big reason why I love Voyager as well), but doesn’t have a lot of depth either . At least not so far.
But yeah, it has been doing questionable things out of the gate as well. Again, many will overlook it if they don’t care about canon or characterization as much, but others will care and that’s where the problem mostly lies IMO. Not everyone will care if they are getting fun stories every week but others like yourself will demand more. And there is nothing wrong with that if you don’t think the show is aiming high enough for you.
Totally agree with you; I loved it! I’m kind of surprised at the many negative reactions on this chat, but to each their own, I guess. For me it was a home run and I’m willing to overlook any minor quibbles.
By the way, when I first started participating on this site several years ago I didn’t know that there was another Phil on here. I should probably change my moniker to “other phil” or “phil #2” to avoid confusion.
We’re just going to call you the ‘Smart Phil’. ;D
I thought it very weak. I’m shocked at how generic the the whole thing felt. Super serum?? WTF??
Some people are sick of the Borg but I’m really sick of the Klingons. I had my fill of them on DS9. All the endless debates about their makeup and designs. Yawn. Create some new aliens and enemies for goodness sake.
Man, what a bummer. That’s got me quite depressed.
Yeah, I feel as if I’ve seen enough Klingons for the next decade or so. There’s an ENORMOUS number of planets out there; let’s see who lives on one of THOSE!
More Klingons… :)
More Vulcans. :-)
More Andorians
By the way Gritizens, I’m sure you saw the Shuttlepod podcast with Connor Trinneer and Dominic Keating. They have an episode with Jeffrey Combs…
I have listened to that one! I loved it.
I’m sure you did. I like Combs too. Great actor. Shran is my favorite character and a close second is Weyoun.
Shran is great. Weyoun and then agimus for me but I also love all of his characters.
I almost said “more Vorta” but this is the wrong time period. Starfleet won’t know they existed for over another century. Shows set after the 2370s have no excuse though. Where are the fruit eating clones that I love so much new Trek? Are they safe? Are they alright?
More Andorians in general would always be good though. They really haven’t been developed much beyond what ENT did.
That won’t stop SNW producers from using them on their show.
I doubt it. There’s other places for them to show up, new Trek just has to bring them back. This is one of the things that I didn’t like about PIC S3 but this is not the place for that. So I will put my gay thoughts about Weyoun aside and pick my gay thoughts about Hemmer back up. I’d give him fruit and cuddle with him like I would Weyoun but idk if Aenar like fruit as much as Vorta do. I also have gay thoughts about Scotty but I also don’t want to see him in SNW.
Aenar would also be great to see more of. Still mad that they killed Hemmer off and wasted a good opportunity to develop them more with one alive and around most of the time. More Hemmer in general would have been really nice. He was cute.
Man sorry you hated it Dvorak. It’s funny I used to be very sick of the Klingons as well but they been gone from live action so much I was really happy to see them in this episode.
But I do agree the super serum thing was just odd and came out of nowhere. You mean Starfleet had a formula to turn people into temp super soldiers all this time and we’re just hearing about it???? Completely silly and unnecessary.
It also feels, how shall I say it… Hypocritical.
Super soldier serum that’s just temporary but augments aren’t allowed. It’s all the same thing but with augments there wasn’t anything temporary about it.
I’d be okay with this as they call that hypocrisy out but that’s the only way.
Great Point! I didn’t think about that.
Wow, excellent point. I agree as well.
Additional thoughts: if they don’t call it out and get rid of it and then retcon it into being used during the Dominion War, it makes the Federation even more hypocritical. It’s different from what ketracel white was used for it but at the same time it’s really not that different at all. I don’t think it’ll come to that but if it does, it’ll still be just as hypocritical there.
Honestly I think it will be forgotten after this episode and never brought up again which is well honored Star Trek tradition lol.
But yeah it’s also a bit eye rolling as well if it’s just totally dropped and it’s crazy implications just ignored.
Hey, I’ve still got high hopes for the LDS crossover and I hear the next episode is great. All is not lost(hopefully) Thinking positive thoughts over here.
LOL good to hear Dvorak! :)
Yes, I’m most excited about the LDS episode as well. That’s my most anticipated episode and I think the next two are suppose to be really good too.
Agreed, but wasn’t this episode supposed to be great too?
So glad this show is finally back. Really good episode and so awesome seeing Klingons in it and looking awesome. That said though, I do have to agree with another poster who called out the super serum and “thing” spock had to say. The super serum seemed very out of place and a cop out to figuring out how to get out of a super threatening situation. It also IMO made the Klingons look like an incredibly weak species. Sadly, I had lost a little bit of interest during that whole bit. The humor also just feels way too forced. I feel like with prior shows, it was subtle, but with today’s trek, they’re trying way too hard to force it in, and the “thing” was a great example. Personally, I’m not a fan of new-Trek forcing the whole “you need a unique command for going to warp”.
Episode was a solid start to the new season though, I just hope it holds to the quality of what season 1 brought to the table and they don’t try too hard with this one where they don’t need to.
Seems most are already saying here what I’m thinking about this episode, very disappointed. Super serum? Emo Spock is back from the Kelvin Universe it seems, ugh, what a letdown. Characters acting…out of character. ‘Big swings’ this season, huh? More like a big swing and a miss here. I’m already resigned to the fact canon is being thrown to the wind in this show, but this one was just plain old bad beyond that, imo. One of the few instances where I disagree with a review here. All that hype, for…this.
Consider this. Season 2 began shooting before the 1st season even came out and wrapped while it was in it’s run. That was over a YEAR ago. I can’t help but wonder why these things take so long.
I enjoyed this episode quite a lot but nowhere near as much as I enjoyed the first episode of Season 1. But then, THAT episode was so nearly perfect that it would be hard to beat. :-)
Isn’t the cast of this show just stellar? The leading man and leading lady were barely in it, and it was still beautifully acted. I’m not entirely happy about what the writers are doing with Spock, but Ethan Peck is playing what they’re writing superbly. Babs Olusanmokun was stunning in this episode, Chong, Navia, and Bush were their reliably excellent selves, and it was great fun to see Gooding reveling in being a real officer who can tell officious inspectors that it’s HER damned station, and he can just wait.
This morning I read an article about the American medical system and about how physicians are being prevented from practicing good medicine or taking good care of patients because the money people want them to cut corners in order to make bigger profits. And then I watched this episode, and the mining consortium wants to restart the war in order to make bigger profits. I would have enjoyed a bit more social commentary about how truly awful it was to put people’s lives at risk, just to make more money, but I’m glad it was there at all.
I really enjoyed hearing about M’Benga’s PTSD and watching him wrestle with it while on this mission. I’d been assuming, though, that the 23rd century must have EXTREMELY effective treatment for psychological trauma, or Jim Kirk should have been crumbling after the first year alone. Maybe that treatment is developed sometime during the next five years. :-)
I had been thinking that Spock was hesitating about blowing up the ship because of his reverence for life. Finding that he was hesitant because he’s hot for Chapel was a blow — to me and to the character. I mean, I think it’s reasonable for Spock to fall for SNW’s Chapel, who’s sooooo much cooler than TOS’s Chapel. But to risk starting a war for her … that’s not the morally exemplary Vulcan I know from TOS. Perhaps this is part of why he keeps himself under such strict control by the TOS era.
Anyway, I have a few quibbles with the episode, but it was mostly good, and I’m thrilled that Strange New Worlds is BACK!
I would love to know where you saw the medial article you mentioned so I can find it. Thanks!
The New York Times.
Back to overwriting TOS. Spock’s first command couldn’t really have ever been as far along as G7, but this? That his first command decision is to disobey admiral’s orders? You wouldn’t find this even in a 12 year old’s fanfic.
Spock was right, and the admiral was wrong, and Spock knew it. The admiral wouldn’t have made that decision in the real world — he’d have sent in some undercover operatives to figure out what was going on. But I guess the writers wanted the callback to “The Menagerie.” I kinda like it when Spock steals the ship, because it shows how lucky we are that Vulcans are mostly good guys. :-) So although I agree that having Spock steal the ship — rather than having the admiral SEND them there — I enjoyed it anyway.
“Spock was right, and the admiral was wrong, and Spock knew it”.
Spot on Corylea, as is the rest of this post.
I really miss the “The” when referencing the ship. To me, it should be “The Enterprise” and not just “Enterprise.” I think Tony subconsciously agrees, as the first line of his review uses the “The” while the characters don’t in the show.
I wish the show runners would explain their reasoning for dropping the “the.”
Star Trek: Enterprise also dropped the “the” when referring to the ship, and I hated it then, too! Dropping the definite article makes it sound as if the ship is a person, which I suppose may be why they’re doing it. :-)
Yes, precisely why I like it. The Enterprise is, after all, a character.
Well, back then the ship always felt like a character in the show to me. It’s why when it was blown up in TSFS in some ways it was a tougher blow than the Spock death in WoK. Starting with the Berman Trek I never felt that way about any ship.
Yes same here. The Enterprise-D never made me feel that way. I just found the design unattractive and it didn’t give it the proper scale for a, what 600 meter ship? Looked like a plastic toy.
The refit Enterprise though, now there was a beautiful design and yes, with as much “presence” as any human character. But that was gone after TSFS. The Enterprise-A was a different ship that had just been renamed. Not the same at all.
If there were still thumbs ups to give I would give one here. I never latched on to the -A. It felt a little sacrilegious to just name another ship Enterprise. It wasn’t a game changer or anything. I still liked TUC. The ship was just no longer important to me.
Yes, and they doubled-down on the sacrilege by renaming the Titan Enterprise. That’s even worse and wrong on too many levels to describe here.
Sadly agree there.
I listen to the Delta Flyers and it’s funny because they always argue about placing ‘the’ in front of a ship name too. Garret Wang thinks it’s OK not to use it and just say Enterprise, Voyager, etc while McNeill thinks ‘the’ is just the proper way to say it. They said even back in production days making it the cast had a divide on it and my guess is the writers as well. I’m good either way personally.
So… Lanthanites hid on Earth undetected for centuries, but speak with a recognizable accent? That’s a bit odd, isn’t it?
Is she doing a variation on the TAXI character accent, when she was with Latka Gravis (sp)? (not complaining, just curious.)
I’m more interested in why they hung out incognito on Earth to begin with.
Could be her race was routed by the Borg a ways back, like El-Aurians, and hid where they could.
Or they could tie it into James Blish’s TOS unsubstantiated backstory of the Vegan Tyranny, which I believe is referenced in his take on TOMORROW IS YESTERDAY.
Maybe this is a riff on QUESTOR, where they are there to help humanity along secretly, with little nudges.
A super long lived race that can still become exciteable — pretty cool in how she handled that performancewise! Between this and HUNTERS, she is having quite the late-career renaissance.
Haven’t seen the episode yet. Seems like a lot happens in 40-some minutes… Hope it’s not as chaotic as the review makes it sound.
Can someone remind me why Spock is emotionally compromised again?
In order to effectively deal with the Gorn at the end of S1, Spock allowed his emotional blocks to come down. Obviously it’s harder for a Vulcan-human to reestablish those blocks than it would be for a full Vulcan.
Thank you iMike. I’m going to have to rewatch the episode. I don’t remember this at all…
So I guess Spock should have been sobbing and raging for at least a few shows after PLATO’S STEPCHILDREN, right? Actually, since those blocks got forcibly taken down or overridden there, it would probably be a lot more devastating than this arbitrary sounding bit of … can I really cal it plotting?
You’re assuming the writers even knew about Plato’s Stepchildren, let alone base any aspect of the plot line on it.
If you don’t learn from the lessons of the past you’re condemned to likely repeat them. If you don’t even know the past, it’s not just likelihood, it becomes certainty.
I assume these folks have the same dubious attitude that ILMers had when it came to Trek continuity, specifically: continuity is for wussies, which I heard more than once from different voices there over the years (especially when I’d ask about invisible deflector shields in TUC and the like.)
Nope. This was a dumb one.
I am so glad I wasn’t the only one who felt this way. They threw a bone to us (Pike and Number One) and then they wrote them out of the episode. I find it very distasteful that I had to spend NUMEROUS minutes watching “the healers” beat the living crap out of Klingons. Spock is way too emotional and way too in love with Chapel. They are all way too insubordinate for their own good.
I found this to be plodding ordinary nuTrek via Akiva/Alex not understanding Trek type of textbook episode. I’d give away my Vulcan ears to see what Matalas could do with these characters (although, sadly, some may be too far gone to fix).
A huge letdown after season 3’s ending of Picard. Just my two cents!
Agreed. I could have brought that fight scene had it been La’an and Spock, but to have the mild-mannered M’Benga inject himself with some sort of serum (that he apparently carries everywhere?!?) and then go a mindless rampage with Chapel was absolutely idiotic. And the constant slo-mo and spinning camera work made it overly cheesy and unwatchable.
Outside of Pike and Una, nobody in this episode acted anything like themselves. Whoever wrote this week’s show didn’t get the assignment and didn’t get the characters.
Yes, we’ll said. Totally agree with you.
It’s funny … I liked the episode more than I didn’t, but most of my problems with it are the ones that a lot of the critics of Picard season 3 had with it. A lot of the moments in the beginning felt like forced nostalgia moments.
Remember when they stole the Enterprise in Search for Spock and now here’s Spock doing it? Remember Spock played a musical instrument in TOS and here’s how he started doing it? Remember how each captain has to say something different when they go to warp?
And there’s some weird moments here too … like Captain America’s Super-Soldier Serum exists in the Star Trek universe? The entire slow-mo sequence with M’Benga and Chapel felt like the writers got to the part of the story where they needed to write a way for the characters to contact the Enterprise, and they threw up their hands and said let’s just have them Hulk out and do an action sequence.
Also, I like what Ethan Peck has done with Spock, and this isn’t a criticism of him or his acting, but I just don’t buy that this version of Spock is the same guy we end up with in TOS. The TOS version of Spock always felt like someone that lived in shame among Vulcans for being half-human (an “outcast” per The Final Frontier), had been taught most of his life to shun humanity, and ever so slowly realizes the value of humanity and his own humanity through his time on the Enterprise with Kirk and crew. Strange New Worlds, on the other hand, seems to be setting up that maybe it’s things going bad with Chapel or Pike that puts him back into a Vulcan shell until Kirk comes along.
This one felt a bit off to me and I think it was primarily because it didn’t quite work as a season premiere. If you were new to the series and started here it would feel like you were jumping into the middle of the story. Having Una arrested in the season 1 finale is now reading like an unnecessary cliffhanger that should have instead played out in season 2.
It’s amazing you said this because a reviewer on YouTube who got the first six episodes early not only made this exact same observation, they even go on to say that episode 4 oddly feels like it the true opener of the season and could’ve switched the two. Obviously no clue why but it is weird this is how they started the season, but I generally liked the episode.
Great minds! Yeah, if you break down episode 110 and episode 201, episode 110 now feels like a mid-season finale with a soft cliffhanger and 201 feels like episode 111 kicking off the second half of the season.
Season 2 won’t really move forward until they wrap the Una storyline and I suspect that 203 will be that episode.
Still a big fan of the show but 201 will take the hit for not tackling 110’s cliffhanger if the season overall is viewed as uneven (a second season stumble). This story could have been tweaked and utilized later in the season.
Good point. In fact, when I go back and look at the trailers, the whole season seems to feel more like the back half of season one than a brand new season two.
Agreed. Funny thing is, they were shot almost exactly a year apart.
Trek is Trek….
Trek is Trek
I wish!
Is Trek.
I was echoing. I just do that sometimes even over text.
It’s something we actually say at home and old friends.
“Trek is Trek!”
“Is Trek!”
Ohh. Awesome! I ended up repeating “Trek is Trek” to myself every few minutes for half an hour which is when my brain finally let go of the phrase.
That swing was big enough.
I didn’t get any screeners for this one (odd, because P+ has been sending me links to all these other things I don’t have assignments to write about, like FATAL ATTRACTION), but have a feeling this season is going to be more about schwing than swing.
Strange New Worlds returns for another go at the final frontier after a stunning debut season! Picking up a few months after the S1 finale, Pike leaves Spock in charge of the Enterprise in Spacedock while he tries to find a lawyer for Una. Of course, things immediately get out of control. La’an sends a distress call, leading Spock to, sigh, steal the Enterprise.
Rather than summarize everything in the episode, I’ll just share some thoughts. First, stealing the Enterprise is a very tired trope by now, and Spock getting away with it scott-free at this point in his career strains credulity. I’m also slightly disappointed/skeptical about the elevation of the romantic dynamic between Chapel and Spock, and I need to see more of Spock’s unrestrained emotions before I can get behind it.
Speaking of Chapel, I really liked the exploration of the trauma Chapel and M’Benga endured during the Klingon War and their PTSD as they faced another showdown with Klingons. That said, I thought their (seemingly coked-up) fight scene was rather unnecessary. I also really liked the visual refresh of the Klingons after Discovery. Going back to TNG roots seems wise, as the TOS makeup imo didn’t age well (looks too close to Black/yellow-face). I also thought the introduction of Pelia, our new Chief engineer, was really well done. I can totally buy that an immortal being would be bored and seek a role on the least-boring ship in history.
Overall, this was a pretty good episode but far from Strange New World’s best. 6/10
Nice to hear from you General. Great posting, as usual.
I’m really shocked that nowhere in this review, especially in the “Bits” section, is mention of Chapel’s line about studying “archaeological medicine” on Vulcan at some point in the future, because it’s absolutely critical to her story in the Original Series: Roger Korby is widely referred to as the “Pasteur of Archaeological Medicine” in “What Are Little Girls Made Of?”
Especially since Akiva Goldsman tweeted something interesting, covered on Trekmovie, a few months ago about it (when asked about Korby’s story being forgotten, he tweeted back the ominous words “Stand by…”) So many of us were wondering if the show would foray into that story and it very much seems like it’s in the cards. Maybe even later this season?
Her training, or at least interest in archeological medicine, was also mentioned in Memento Mori.
When sick bay systems were down, and Una needed surgery, M’Benga quipped that he understood she liked archeological medicine before asking her to assist with suturing.
Korby is probably banging nuT’Pring on the side when Chapel enters the picture. That would explain his fascination with robotic-seeming people.
What most of you fail to realize is that the show is a reboot of the original prime timeline. Michael Burnham’s mother had an interesting comment in season 2 of discovery where she talked about how time travel altered technology. The Enterprise going back in time in Star Trek first contact could be argued as a reboot of the prime timeline…. Not to mention the discovery of the borg and all the other time travel stories seen in Star Trek …
It could also be argued that The temporal Cold war rebooted the original timeline…. With all due respect to my fellow fans the original series does not hold up in the 21st century…. Gene Roddenberry was known to get rid of episodes that he did not like…… The bottom line is they have softly rebooted the prime timeline and that’s okay…..
Canon can be tampered with and that’s okay……. I personally wish that they would just admit that they rebooted the original series timeline it’s obvious they have…. They have said that the show takes place in the prime timeline…. You can even blame the red angel for the changes…. I really think that fans need to get over it… The original series was great but it does not hold up…. The way women were treated on the show… A lot of the language that was used…. A lot of it was bad…. Words like Oriental for example……. I hope they do a show around the original series stories that would be cool… I love strange new worlds and I hope it continues to be great….
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LOL!!!
The Xindi conflict also altered the timeline…. The man from the future was manipulating the past…. Come on man you guys really need to think about it… Star Trek has rebooted itself on numerous occasions…. On Star Trek the next generation on the episode first contact Picard has a line of dialogue that talks about the disastrous first contact with the Klingons and how it led to decades of war…. Fast forward to Enterprise and Rick Berman shows that the first contact with Klingons was in a corn field and it was manipulated by the Suliban…. Thus changing the timeline first contact was altered… I don’t understand what all the fuss is about Star Trek has done this on numerous occasions… In first contact they visually updated the look of the borg..,
Sisko, until someone just acknowledge it on screen, then these discussions will never go away. With the original Kelvin movie they DID acknowledge they were living in a different timeline at least…and people still fought about it for a decade lol. In fact the writers and JJ Abrams made it clear they were all living in a parallel universe, but because it was never said on screen, people argued tirelessly that the Prime universe was actually written over…yeah.
It’s not enough just to assume time travel has created altered timelines, which it has, but there has to be some recognition of it by the characters that their reality has been altered in some way and there clearly isn’t.
Carol Kane did more of a one-person salvage job on that episode than anybody has on any 21st century Trek since Mount singlehandedly made DSC s2 watchable.
Man, if they hadn’t gotten a genius performer, this one would have been as leaden as the rest of it all was.
And ‘pedal to the metal’ — now trek is having to pinch from GALAXY QUEST, where at least the moron vernacular is directly attributable to being from a crummy tv show of the 1980s.
My wife usually doesn’t get too upset by the vfx (has low expectations), but tonight that lengthy early shot of the ship at dock had her just reeling. And when they first showed the planet of the week and I couldn’t help saying, ’90s cutscene vidgame’ she actually agreed. I said it looked just like Enterprise, and she said, what about progess? I said Enterprise and Voyager were huge steps backwards in visual credibility VFXwise, so this is just almost holding station with those dismal entries.
Note that I haven’t brought up Spock … that’s because I see no evidence that Spock is even in this series, just a guy whose mother happens to have the same name as Spock.
The makeup on the first klingon was a disaster, like a Halloween mask hanging off his forehead.
I did manage to watch the whole thing, and the actress playing Number One looks healthier than she has in her previous Trek stuff by far. Music was occasonally familiar, but nearly always intrusive and obnoxious in how it was mixed. Fight scene was possibly the most boring part of the show, which is some Bourne-level trick for a scene that was so cut-heavy.
Anybody taking bets that the guy April was talking to at the end turns out to be a turncoat or impostor or alien?
Think I know how Michael Hall felt about most of Pic s3 now.
“Note that I haven’t brought up Spock … that’s because I see no evidence that Spock is even in this series, just a guy whose mother happens to have the same name as Spock.”
Ouch dude…really? Up until now I thought you liked Peck? I think he’s fine, but I never obsessed over Spock like other fans have been. But he became a huge fan favorite in Discovery and I thought this guy was originally going to fall flat on his face.
He’s not the problem, at all. It’s the writing. They’re doing him no favors.
I don’t think I’ve ever weighed in on Peck, outside of maybe saying he looks a little better than the JJ version and wondering about those silly sideburns from last year. Spock as a character for me has always been about his relationship with Kirk (and McCoy), so his part of things in SNW has been something I just didn’t care about much. I don’t think I’m blaming him so much as the writing, and it is also hard to know how much is him being directed poorly. I have been extremely disappointed in the directing for most shows owing to stupid trick camerawork and overcutting,
OK, I understand your point now. I did think you meant Peck just isn’t a good Spock but you’re just talking about how he is written. I think the same problems many had with Quinto’s Spock and I liked him too. But I think Peck is much better personally.
And for the record, I never had any interest to see Spock again. I would’ve been fine if the character died with Nimoy. But of course it was always only going to be a matter of time and now that we have a new version, I’m enjoying it and probably more than I thought I would. But I am getting more worried now they are going to take all the initial good will at the beginning and flush it down the toilet if they take the character down a path no one was asking for either. And this episode has given off a big warning sign.
As much as I dig TFF, I still am of the 40-year-old opinion that if Spock had stayed dead after TWOK, I’d have been fine with it (so in a sense, ‘I liked him better before he died.’)
And if they had to bring him back, I wish the crew had stayed renegade. That way you get past the whole ‘going renegade’ thing by it being a done deal and let them do a ON GOLDEN STARSHIP, aging while MARY WORTHing their way through the cosmos, making important decisions and making a difference w/o the safety net/strangehold of Fed/Starfleet.
Back on topic: I must have some level of goodwill in me left, because I actually asked my wife, ‘do you want to watch Star Trek?’ last night instead of saying ‘Strange New Worlds’ or ‘That Pike Show.’ I don’t think I’ve EVER before asked if somebody wanted to watch STAR TREK and not meant TOS, so some kind of brainwashing or relenting has happened with me (just think how acerbic I’d be if I hadn’t gotten softened up a little!) She actually thought I meant TMP, because that is my usual go-to.
I think they’re changing stuff because they don’t know how to do anything else except run standard contemporary character tropes; either that or they dread comparison (rightfully, going by their take on BoT.) I wish they’d thought of this as going backwards from TAS and TOS to TOS year sub-five or sub-six, but obviously that was never going to be in the cards.
I wonder if we’ll see a Scotty who doesn’t yet love his ‘bairns,’ so they can do a character arc or somesuch nonsense. It might not be in their wheelhouse to realize a character can be set in his ways and still of interest, so long as that being set includes interesting material (like Scotty in ARMAGEDDON, DAY OF THE DOVE and TURNABOUT INTRUDER, to name just a trio of my many favorite Doohan moments.)
Look, obviously the biggest problem with this show is that no one can decide if they should refer to the ship as “Enterprise” or “the Enterprise.”
Every once in awhile ‘the Enterprise’ sounded wrong too. In WNMHGB at the end, a bedraggled Kirk actually says, ‘kirk to the enterprise’ and it sounds way off compared to his usual crisp ‘kirk to enterprise’ from the regular run of the show. But by and large, ‘the Enterprise’ is the way it sounds best.
Yes. Same with the Defiant. But not Voyager. Discovery sounds fine either way, but it doesn’t roll off the tongue quite as easily to add “the.”
Had to watch it again to make sure. Twice, in one day. I was correct. the writing was a mess. Nothing cohesive whatsoever. Klingons look proper again, one good thing, the sfx are nice, as usual. But the story is nonexistent. Just terrible writing, imo, such a bummer to have to struggle through a(nother) bad SH Trek production. And canon, out the window. Cheers.
Don’t think I’m going to watch this one a second time ever, unless it is just to re-love the scenes with Kane, which I hope will turn up on youtube as standalones. Disagree strenuously on the FX, but otherwise concur wholeheartedly.
Interesting how much you like her. I found her character cringey. Didn’t think she had any special screen presence. But then I never thought that about Ms Kane. It’s possible they might make her character worth while. But given the past trend of this show as well as the production company that produces it I have major doubts there.
I’ve not been seriously impressed with her in anything before this (though apparently the best scene she had in CARNAL KNOWLEDGE was cut pre-release), though I always get a kick out of THE PRINCESS BRIDE.
Great review Anthony.
This was a spectacular start to a new season.
Not only do I not think this is one of the best episodes of the series, it’s handily my least favorite so far. I didn’t like the M’Benga/Chapel fight scenes even one tiny little bit, and while I kind of enjoyed Carol Kane, I also wonder if she might not literally be playing her character from “Scrooged.” So I’m not sold on her yet.
Big step backwards for me, overall.
Almost unwatchable. Spock not being Spock. Unprofessional interactions among the crew. Engineer Granny the most annoying and distracting character in memory. Etc., etc.
Now that’s more like it, I was getting concerned about how it seemed I was starting to agree with you recently.
While I concur unreservedly about Spock and the episode overall, I found Kane to be the most wonderful addition to Trek since Mount salvaged Pike.
Right on Kmart. Kane ain’t no “Engineer Granny”. She is instead a character who, aside from her mischievous humour, will allow us to explore what it is like to have lived for hundreds of years.
Just finished watching it.
In a word…well, I was about to write “ugh.” Maybe it’s not *quite* that bad, but…as they say, close enough for government work.
Where to start? Well, we’re treated to yet another unsanctioned mission trope — the second in all of four months. There is just a point where the writers lose all credibility with this trope, and they’ve vaulted over it. Spock and Ortegas and Pelia should just be court martialed at this point, and I don’t care how much clout Adm. April has, he just does not have unilateral authority to prevent the convening of a board of inquiry. (If they were writing TNG “The Wounded” today, I guess they’d be celebrating Capt. Maxwell; Spock basically came close to doing what he did here.) Kirk, a storied senior admiral, got demoted for what they did. There’s no way he would ever be trusted with a first officer position after this stunt.
I don’t know why the writers keep on returning to this idiocy; maybe they’re channeling the (hackneyed) idea that “Gen Z doesn’t care about hierarchy.” Whatever the reason, I’m beyond done with it. This isn’t even a question of *military* discipline; any corporation where a newly-minted MBA who openly defies the CEO is firing the former, tout de suite.
Then there’s the catchphrase idiocy. As I wrote in another comment this week, it’s a case of “first time funny, second time silly, third time, a spanking.” The writers room definitely merits a sore butt this week. What’s more, they’re sitting there debating catchphrases *right after stealing the ship*, when presumably Starbase 1 could send someone in pursuit.
Third, we’re back to magic blood (this time green) that can somehow transform two mild-mannered doctors into super-soldiers who decimate a squadron of battle-hardened Klingon warriors. Riiiight. At least when Jack Crusher did this a few months back, he had a credible backstory for his hidden superpower. M’Benga’s anti-Klingon bloodlust came out of nowhere, too. Back in “Quantum of Mercy,” he was the one taking dovish views on the Romulans.
Fourth, Spock’s emotionalism. Yes, he showed some emotions in “The Cage,” but nothing like this. Forget my complaints about how Chapel is nothing like her character in TOS; it’s becoming clearer that Spock isn’t, either. Chapel’s pining for Spock in TOS was supposed to be about unrequited love, or perhaps more accurately, an unrequited crush. I’m just not buying this Sam-and-Diane routine, and I vote they just let Chapel take her damn sabbatical for the rest of the series. (There’s also the minor point that “The Galileo Seven” was supposed to be Spock’s first command; I can set that aside, though, because he was a LTCDR at the time, and it made no sense that he’d never led a mission before. Still, it shows how little the writers care about continuity.)
Finally, Pelia. Judging from the previews, I thought I was going to like her. She’s just too hammy, in a way reminiscent of Helena Rozhenko on steroids. I also found it very difficult to understand both her an M’Benga in this outing; the fact that Paramount’s subtitles seemed to run about 90 seconds ahead of the actual dialogue didn’t help.
If this is a taste of the “craziness” we’ve been promised for the rest of the season, count me out.
Good post, well reasoned and totally agree with you.
I don’t think you are wrong on the bulk of that stuff. Some I do agree with but don’t find as offensive as others. But yeah. Essentially we are on the same page this episodes.
And on the subject of P+ subtitles, I had to use them too. They were timed right but I HATE that they are framed in a black box. Why??? That just gets in the way of the image. There is no reason for that. Why not just put the words on the screen without the framing device?
When Spock decides to hijack the Enterprise, it reminded me of quote from Q in TNG. “He never took any risks… and he never got noticed by anyone!”
This was a good and enjoyable episode with plenty of great scenes and an overall good story that centres around that message we saw in Tapestry plus it demonstrates the comraderie and the passion the crew has for eachother. Btw, i think the new engineer is going to fit in nicely.
That said, there were also some distracting negatives like Spock leaving his post to go to the Transporter room. That seems quite implausibe. I was also not a fan of the super human drug, but we all have heard stories of 100 lb women lifting cars to save a loved one so I guess the body is capable of amazing physical feats of strength given the proper chemicals.
Ok, not the best, but still a good fun episode. Definitely looking forward to see what happens to Number One next week.
Totally agree with you DeanH! Not a perfect episode, certainly had questionable things in it, but I still enjoyed it.
Yup Tiger, you captured my reaction as well. Sometimes Perfect is the enemy of Good. And this was good.
I agree with those who say Spock is not Spock. That is the whole point.
Clearly, the Spock we saw in the 1964 pilot episode The Cage went through an emotional metamorphasis to become the smiling Spock in WNMHGB and eventually the dispassionate and logical first officer in TOS.
What we are seeing in SNW is the early post The Cage journey the character is taking as he explores his human emotions. Sadly we know Vulcans tend to be consumed by their emotions so eventually he will fight an inner battle between his emotional human self and his logical and Vulcan self, one who is devoid of emotion. A battle he continued to fight even in TOS.
Yep. It’s not that they can’t show Spock struggling with his human heritage.. it’s that they go waaaay over the top with it. His struggle is always internal. At this point in his life, he wouldn’t lose control so easily. They could have done the exact thing they did this episode, and had it done more subtly. They have a great actor, who can pull off this stuff without overly emoting. He needs to be in better control at this point of his life.
With all due respect, your assertion that “his struggle is always internal” is an entirely subjective conclusion on your part, as is the conclusion that “he wouldn’t lose control this easily”. There is no way we could possibly state that so definitively at this stage in his life.
The essence of Spock has always centered on the often fraught struggle between his Human and Vulcan aspects.
These are clearly VERY early days of that epic internal struggle, and the writers are presenting us with some admirably plausible interpretations of how intense and wrenching that struggle had been been before TOS.
I say kudos to those writers for portraying that struggle in such an interesting and, as he would say, “fascinating” way. Kudos as well, for Peck’s superb rendering of that struggle.
Clearly in the pilot no one knew who Spock was. Even Nimoy didn’t know. He said the director told him to react that way. So he did. If Spock was fully spelled out as a character and Nimoy knew then what he knew later the reaction would have been a raised eyebrow or something. Certainly not a smile. There is nothing more to the moment than that. I think it a mistake to read all that much into a pilot episode that was never meant to be aired and was only used because of cost overruns.
Very perceptive Dean. Totally on the mark.
That was an appalling episode.
Good, but not great. Strangely, it felt more like an episode from the middle of the season rather than a season opener. It just didn’t have the kind of “Look at us! We’re back!” vibe one might expect from the first episode of a new season.
Agreed. Resetting the whole season by having them back at Starbase 1 contributed to that feeling (for me, anyway). In the “previouslies…” they go out of there way to put in there Pike saying “We’re on our five year mission.” Having them start back at home base is a weird corporate brain idea. Much less like “We’re back! Let’s go!” and more “Here we go again. Now what?”
Just finished the episode. Spock being too emotional, even emotional at all, was unnecessary. And crying at the end is just inappropriate. I really like this Chapel, and didn’t like the original at all, but this is not Chapel. Not even an extrapolation of what she is. They should have made her into a different character. The fight scenes were idiotic. Why so long? A few seconds maybe but this was out of place. The magic serum is just a dumb plot device. And why are they doubling down with the Gorn? Just make them a different species, they don’t look or act like the Gorn anyway.
Is this one of those big swings? Well it’s a swing and a miss, and that’s called a strike.
If noone has pointed this out (sorry but I’ve no time to read all the posts) this episode rewrote Trek Canon. The TOS episode Galileo Seven identified that mission as Spock’s first command. That is now no longer true.
Honestly I didn’t even remember that Galileo Seven was Spock’s first mission. Ok now that bothers me a bit. Just more proof why it’s probably best to stay away from prequels unless you are very disciplined and can connect the dots without just scribbling all over the page. And I like the show.
To me that is a VERY small thing. McCoy very well could have been speaking more rhetorically. Or more likely he wasn’t aware of Spock’s past beyond Kirk’s Enterprise and was referring to this specific kind of situation. To me that is nit picking and not even close to the major issues like the Gorn.
Well, yes, but I give this one a pass, because, it didn’t make sense in “The Galileo Seven.” A lieutenant commander will have at least commanded a planetary survey or scientific research team by that point.
That, too.
Oh my Gawd, TBW — you and River Temarc are much too forgiving. We are discussing CANON here. I say clap the writers in irons, then off with their heads!
They probably scrubbed the whole stealing-the-Enterprise incident off his official record…
It wasn’t a sanctioned command, and wasn’t a mission per se.