Star Trek Picard Show Begins Production

Today, Monday, April 22nd, 2019, is the first day of production for the next new Star Trek series, the untitled show featuring Sir Patrick Stewart returning to the role of Jean-Luc Picard, coming to CBS All Access later this year.

Picard production begins

Early on producers for the Picard show said they were targeting a mid-April start of production and recently have talked up how production would be starting soon. While some reports had the show set to begin last week, TrekMovie has confirmed that today is the first day of shooting. And according to the latest issue of the industry newsletter Production Weekly, the Picard show will be in production for around five months, with the wrap currently planned for September 16th.

Unlike Star Trek: Discovery which is shot in Toronto, Canada, production for the Picard show is taking place in Southern California, fueled by $15.6 million tax break from the California Film Commission. The first two episodes are being directed by Hanelle Culpepper, with Doug Aarniokoski as second unit director. The first season of the show is structured as a highly serialized arc of ten episodes, which Stewart describes to be like a “10-hour movie.” Directors will shoot in two-episode “blocks,” with Patrick Stewart’s Star Trek: The Next Generation co-star Jonathan Frakes set to direct the second block of episodes three and four.

Hanelle Culpepper (pictured directing Star Trek: Discovery’s “Vaulting Ambition”)  is helming the first two episodes of new Picard show

Picard’s next chapter

It has been just a bit over seventeen years since the last time Sir Patrick Stewart has played the role of Jean-Luc Picard, following the wrap of production on Star Trek: Nemesis in March 2002. The only official description of the new show says it “will explore the next chapter of Jean-Luc Picard.” It will be set roughly two decades following the events of Star Trek: Nemesis, or around the end of the 24th century, which was the setting for Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and Star Trek: Voyager, as well as the four TNG-era feature films.

Executive producer Alex Kurtzman has also stated that the show will deal with the aftermath of the events of the 2009 Star Trek film which take place in the Prime Timeline, specifically the destruction of the Planet Romulus in the year 2387 following a supernova. Kurtzman notes “Picard’s life was radically altered by the dissolution of the Romulan Empire.” Patrick Stewart has also noted that things have changed, saying “the world that we find Jean-Luc Picard in is not quite the world that we left him in,” and in another interview adding “things are very different from what they were.”

The destruction of Romulus in Star Trek (2009) had a big impact on Picard

A different Picard

Since he first announced the show at Star Trek Las Vegas last summer, Patrick Stewart has made it clear this is going to be a different kind of show than Star Trek: The Next Generation. At the time he told fans: “He may not be the Jean-Luc that you recognize and know so well. It may be a very different individual. Someone who has been changed by his experiences.” As the show was being developed Stewart stated that the series “has to feel grounded, whatever choices we’re making in the future because I think one of the things that people love about Next Gen is that it is a very emotional, thoughtful, grounded piece of entertainment.”

Executive producer Alex Kurtzman has discussed that Patrick Stewart wanted the show to be different: “He did not want to repeat what he had already done. And by the way, it’s been 20-plus years so he couldn’t possibly be that same person anymore.” And CBS All Access exec Julie McNamara has stated the Picard show will “be very different from Discovery, even more character-driven.” Kurtzman has given more detail on how the two shows will differ, saying “It’s an extremely different rhythm than DiscoveryDiscovery is a bullet. Picard is a very contemplative show. It will find a balance between the speed of Discovery and the nature of what Next Gen was, but I believe it will have its own rhythm.”

However, while the show is being touted as something different, the producers have also said it will still be true to the character of Picard and the franchise. Speaking for the team behind the show, Michael Chabon said: “we have this responsibility to continue to articulate a hopeful, positive vision of the future.”

Much has changed for Picard since Star Trek: Nemesis in 2002

A new team

One area that demonstrates how this is a different TV show is that Patrick Stewart is the only returning Trek veteran as a series regular. CBS has announced six additional castmembers with Santiago Cabrera, Michelle Hurd, Evan Evagora, Alison Pill, Harry Treadaway, and Isa Briones. CBS has not provided any details on the characters the new cast will play.

While it is always possible for some of Stewart’s TNG-era costars to appear on the show, there has been no indication that they will do so. Last September Marina Sirtis noted: “When Patrick said ‘Jean-Luc Picard is back,’ he didn’t say TNG is back.” Some of the TNG cast have indicated a willingness to participate if asked, including Wil Wheaton. The buzz around the show has even got other actors raising their hands, including Trek Fan Rosario Dawson and James McAvoy who has volunteered to play a young Jean-Luc Picard, after having experience playing a younger version of Stewart’s Professor X in the X-Men franchise.

The Picard show is being executive produced by Alex Kurtzman along with Secret Hideout president Heather Kadin. Pulitzer Prize-winner Michael Chabon and Oscar-winner Akiva Goldsman are also executive producers and writers for the show. The writers’ room has also included Discovery writers room crossovers James Duff and Kirsten Beyer.

Patrick Stewart and the Picard show writers room in September 2018 (Photo: Twitter/Patrick Stewart)


Keep up with all the upcoming Star Trek TV shows on TrekMovie.com.

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Nachum

I wonder what they’re watching in that last shot.

PostAtomicHorror

PowerPoint

Last Tango in Starbase Nine

A34

It’s the storyboard of the Picard full frontal scene.

Chester

Make it show.

PaulB

@Chester [slow applause]

Make it so, Number One…

“Now, as you see in this storyboard, she’s trying to put her clothes back on, but it’s too late. I’ve seen everything.”

Tiger2

“That’s an…..interesting idea Patrick. We’ll take it under advisement.”

Captain Dan

Bahahahahahaha! Picard, in a more casual conversation needs to say this at some point in the new show! :P

Holden

“And I do other stuff, like I go to the World Cup final, and it’s Germany versus England, and I wish that I were playing, and suddenly I am, and I score the winning goal, and they carry me into the dressing room and there’s Roony and Beckham and then Posh Spice walks in . . .”

Dr Beckett

– “And then her clothes fall off?”

– “Instantly.”

Wadda ya mean, Ariel Winter isn’t convincing as my love interest?

Professor Spock

Filming

Jai

“Sorry if I’m blocking your view — my eyesight’s not what it used to be — but explain this to me again. Which Picard video are we watching this time? The one where I’m watching live helmet camera footage of the black ops mission, and everyone in my Cabinet is sitting in exactly the same positions that we are right now?”

AT LAST!

Quinton O’Connor

I’m beyond hyped. The one thing I’m wondering about is the length of the post-production cycle. Wrapping filming on September 16th doesn’t give the editing and VFX teams much time to touch up on their work and complete the entirety of theirs, respectively.

DataMat

They said they are filming in two episode blocks.
Surely Post prod is a separate team and they will be getting to work as soon as the first two episodes are filmed.
Therefore by September I’d say the first two blocks may well be nearly ready?

kmart

Compressed post schedules are the norm for TV nowadays, sadly. I think ENTERPRISE had something like a six-week turnaround on the pilot (didn’t like the results at all myself), and PAN-AM had to do virtual world CG for its 60s depiction that was accomplished (pretty well, I gotta admit) in a week!

MattR

I’m sure pre-production and visual effects are already in full swing even though they are just starting actual filming today. We also have to consider that the show is likely less effects-heavy as compared to Discovery, if it is more of a character piece like they’ve been saying.

But in any case, they were able to deliver Discovery Season 2, which was very effects heavy, in an even tighter schedule than the Picard show will have.

Discovery Season 2 was filmed from April to December 2018, with the first episode airing 9 months after the start of filming and the last episode airing 4 months after the end of filming.

Assuming Picard starts in December, that will be 8 months after the start of filming, and the last episode will probably air in February or March, so 5-6 months after the end of filming.

alphantrion

I guess not having models to shoot the spaceships anymore might quicken the process. But I also don’t want to see them do a half-assed job on the visual effects just because it is a “character” piece.

beckerjr

I don’t see this show as being effects heavy as Discovery so less time needed for post.

kmart

Actually, sometimes ‘invisible’ vfx work takes longer, because it requires a lot more finesse and therefore more iterations. If you look at a breakdown of vfx on something like MAISEL, there’s actually a lot of work being done, even if the only time you really see it is in that weird ‘train in tunnel’ shot.

Michael Hall

My hopes for this series still reside with Michael Chabon first, and Stewart second.

blackmocco

Agreed. Stewart has no reason to come back to this unless they sold him on the idea. Chabon’s a good writer. Hopefully those two factors mean something intelligent is on the way.

Professor Spock

They have good ideas.

Vulcan Soul

That’s a succinct way of putting it! Mr. Dune-Buggy Starship Mine should be kept away from the scripts as far as possible and focus on what he is stellar at: playing Picard :)

Recalling that back in TUD, the Federation was contemplating dealing with the disintegrating Klingon Empire as the warrior trash of the galaxy. Apparently Picard has had that thrust upon him, except it’s Romulans as the trailer trash of the galaxy. So, Discovery hops 950 years into the future and can see the outcome of all this – whatever will Picard do, and does he f**k it up?

Tiger2

To me, that’s like suggesting we are going to know what any country or a group of people today would look like 800 years from now based on what happens with them today. I mean Picard may figure out some solution for the Romulans, but who knows what will happen to them again 20 years later. Or 50. Or 100.

And to be honest this is probably the reason DIS is so far out so we CAN’T make any big predictions about anything based on what happens of Trek in the 23rd or 24th centuries.

Will we know the Trek 33rd century future, specifically, particularly so of a fictional construct? No. It can be anything the showrunners want it to be. However, we can extrapolate from where we are now. Will humans (and presumably other Trek sentient species) grow? Yes. Will societies continue to end? Probably also a yes. The show runners are going to have to decide just how much time do they want to spend showing us a 33rd century future, and for what little canon there is, how much do they want to respect that? So, there are all sorts of things to consider: Does the Federation survive? Does a non-human species rise to prominence? Just how prevalent is time travel? Calypso suggests the crew chose not to assimilate into the 33rd century? Why, since they are historical oddities and not subject to the Prime Directive? The sphere data in the 33rd century would be interesting, but no more relevant then the Dead Sea Scrolls are to 21st century society. From the 33rd century perspective is Picard a towering figure, or a foot note?

The possibilities are…endless.

Tiger2

Yeah I agree with all of that, and exactly why I’m excited they decided to take this direction in the first place, even if I’m still cautious about it because DIS writing is still far from great.

The possibilities are endless and its actually fun to know that we don’t know anything lol. But I do have a feeling they aren’t going to reveal all that much between the Picard show this year and Discovery next year. I mean based on what we saw on Discovery this season, I have a feeling none of that will effect the Picard show in any way other then maybe a sly reference somewhere (but won’t be shocked if Section 31 shows up on that show as well). I’m just not sure what happens on his show will have any bearing on Discovery either. But yes. we’ll see. And for the record I’m fine with either direction, a direct tie in or remain completely separate of each other. Just knowing they are part of the same timeline is enough for me.

Tiger2

This is a GREAT day! One of the greatest characters in Star Trek history has officially returned home and the TNG era is back!!! So excited, a year ago I never even dreamed this would happen again and now its happening. Star Trek is going to be really interesting the next few years with all the things the producers are setting up! I haven’t been remotely this excited for Star Trek since Enterprise ended.

Just too bad the Picard show had to be another prequel. ;D

Vulcan Soul

“Just too bad the Picard show had to be another prequel.”

Youd think with a time span of 800 years in between, they’d manage not to contradict themselves and mess up canon. You’d think ;)

Tiger2

With Discovery, literally ANYTHING is possible lol.

JonBuck

Hopefully they’ll drop something more substantial about this show soon. Like starships, at least. :)

DataMat

Yeah and explanations. What happened to Enterprise E?

Tiger2

I’m still hoping we see the E-E on the show but would gladly take a new Enterprise as well. Its no way we won’t see one version of one after what they did with second season of Discovery.

A bit off topic, but now I’m trying to imagine what a 33rd century version of Enterprise would look like lol. I don’t think they would go there………but.

DataMat

Tbh I am surprise they are even brave enough (the prod team, writer’s etc) to go that far into future.
Hopefully it works out good because Discovey so far hasn’t lighted my fire lol

Tiger2

I think its safe to say snearly everyone feels that way lol. But UNLIKE some people, I never thought they feared doing a post Nemesis show, Discovery was just more about getting back to the TOS era since TNG started and a clever way to get old fans onboard faster, especially being the first new Trek show in over a decade. I didn’t like it personally, but I understood it.

But once they announced the Picard show, I knew from that point on all bets were off and we would definitely see future shows taking place after Picard. Doesn’t mean right away but certainly more someday. But I never suspected a show that started in one century would just be placed in another and one so far in the future at that. I was a bit scared before Picard it was just going to be a bunch of prequels for at least a few years if they spinned off more shows from Discovery, but that is not turning out to be the case and they have people there who really want to see Star Trek boldly going again.

I agree, hopefully it will work out but I can’t blame anyone for feeling cautious about it. Its exciting on so many levels but same time its setting up HUGE expectations I’m not sure these writers are equipped to pull off. Picard is doing new things as well, but it still based on an already well mapped out previous mythology and 500 hours worth of stories when you throw DS9 and Voyger into the mix to draw from.

DIS will now be starting over completely from scratch in many ways. I still think maybe putting the show 100 years after the Picard show would’ve been more practical but I admire them for taking such a risk. As someone once said, risk is our business, and that’s what Trek as a franchise should be about, taking risks. This is easily the biggest one yet.

Vulcan Soul

” I’m trying to imagine what a 33rd century version of Enterprise would look like lol.”

The N’trpriz, flagship of the V’draysh ;)

(TBH they shouldn’t even be speaking intelligble English so far out in the future – maybe they will have mercy and grant a universal translator to us viewers too!)

Sold for scrap….

Professor Spock

Or a title

DataMat

I think there is surely a half decent chance Frakes will get himself a cameo as Riker even if it’s very short.

kmart

A ‘short’ cameo of Riker would be him as he appeared in HOLLOW PURSUIT’s holodeck. So short it was mini-me-esque.

alphantrion

If those rumors about Picard being a fugitive are true, Riker could be the talking head admiral chasing after him.

Capt.Roykirk

I really want to be excited about this, but as bad as all new Trek has not been something I enjoy. But considering it is Sit Patrick Stewart, Maybe it will turn out well. I’ll wait until I actually see an episode. Or at least a trailer or something.

unhappening

no offense but if that’s the case then hopefully you will hate it because current trek has been awesome

Ahmed

Very exciting news. Can’t wait to hear more about the show, beginning with the title & a general idea of its plot.

Legate Damar

My prediction is that the Romulans will finally be ready to talk reunification. Some Romulans will see reuniting with the Vulcans as their only path to survival. Others will see reunification as the destruction of everything the Romulan’s have achieved since the Time of Awakening, and will fight tooth and nail to stop reunification. Picard, as an ambassador an an admiral or whatever, will be caught right in the middle of it.

My prediction is that the Romulans are all living in RV’s in a Wal Mart parking lot in North Las Vegas. A slightly delusional Picard is the store manager. Romulans make great security guards at the casinos….

DIGINON

That would fit better as the premise for the Lower Decks animated series ;-)

Marty

I literally couldn’t care less. Although I probably care enough to write this. Etc.

RikersMailbox

That literally means you do care.

Professor Spock

Marty you do care.

Garth Lorca

Glad that finally production has begun on this wonderful extension to TNG and Trek as a whole. So much looking forward to seeing this…

Dr Zaius

Cant wait to see it.

Tiger2

I was just thinking I remembered when this show was first announced that the Picard show would be for TNG era fans and DIS would be for TOS era fans. But now that DIS has left the 23rd century, I wonder if TOS fans will still feel the same way about it?

Professor Spock

Tiger2 the Picard show is not TNG by the way. Discovery is not exactly TOS anyway. They both have those things but are unique style.

Tiger2

PS, I said TNG ‘ERA’ fans, not TNG only fans. I mean a return to this time period and all the story lines and characters that were involved in it from TNG-Voyager. Even if we don’t see anyone from TNG or the other shows its still in an era people are familiar with and want to see stories from this era continued, just like TOS era fans who loved that period of Star Trek. Thats what I mean.

Trellium G

We TOS fans get a comic book. Nothing more sadly.

Vulcan Soul

Tiger, the Space Hitler show is the show for TOS fans now, and all fans of genocidal dictators ;)

Trellium G

She’s going to be a kinder, more gentle, genocidal dictator. It really gives me hope for the future.

Vulcan Soul

“She’s going to be a kinder, more gentle, genocidal dictator.”

Plus she IS caring for St. Michael, and that shall he absolution in ANY timeline! Empathy FTW! (Save for Kelpien delicacies. Sorry guys!)

Tiger2

LOL!!

And MU Georgiou is having quite the experiences lately: Former terrain Emperor who jumped to a new universe, later joined Section 31 and now traveled a thousand years into the future. Man, that memoir is going to be pretty damn interesting!

Vulcan Soul

Tiger, you can see how she somehow ends up head of the newly underground Section 31 eventually. That’s one hell of a CV for a covert quasi criminal organization!

Professor Spock

I want to see this. So bad.

AJinMoscow

It would be ludicrous to make a JLP-based show and not bring back his TNG co-stars in one form or another. Watching an older Picard interact with an entirely new set of people (immediate family, perhaps?) would be interesting of course, but the letdown would be palpably felt if they decided that TNG cast need not apply. It would be a ‘waste of resources’ bringing Picard back, and not those without whom he would never have become who he is.

Sam

They really don’t need everybody, or even half the former TNG cast for that matter. Nor do they need show up all at once (in fact preferably not). But it’s guaranteed the producers won’t be able to resist having at least some characters show up eventually. Or letting some of the actors (certainly Frakes) direct.

Tiger2

They are being super coy on if TNG characters are coming or not so I suspect a few to pop up. And if it doesn’t happen this season, more than likely the next after the show found its groove.

MattR

Yeah, I’d be shocked if it never happens.

But I’d be happy if any of the appearances come as complete surprises. One thing I’ve liked about Discovery is their hyper-secrecy has allowed me to not know what is going to happen from week to week.

AJinMoscow

Hyper-secrecy rocks.

Vulcan Soul

“They are being super coy on if TNG characters are coming or not so I suspect a few to pop up. ”

Tiger, even Spock was never to be seen if these producers were to be believed. So READ MY LIPS: No more TNG ;D

Tiger2

Exactly! They said we wouldn’t see any major TOS characters at all and then in season 2, not only do we see one, the entire season is about him lol. And with all the main actors still around, its going to be hard to resist, especially if season 1 doesn’t show anyone and fans complain. We definitely know now complaining works with these guys lol.

Professor Spock

I don’t want anyone from TNG on this show. Maybe Jonathan Frakes as Riker.

Vulcan Soul

“I don’t want anyone from TNG on this show. ”

I want to see TNG alumni Donald Tiberius Trump starring as one of these trademark corrupt Starfleet admirals who is in the cahoots with the new Romulan proconsul, P’tin! It’s timely messaging people!

Much contradiction, I read.

Tiger2

PS, do you not see how much you contradict so much in your posts? Sometimes its really confusing trying to figure out your thoughts.

Sam

Waiting to see how the conspiracy theorists at Midnight’s Edge spin this into more bad news intended to scare the faithful. Because they will.

unhappening

don’t know what midnights edge is but trek fans are simultaneously excited and fun as well as depressing and negative… whenever there’s a new generation of trek the older fans rebel… so weird but it’s around 50 plus years and that’s the one thing that’s been consistent… i remember how TOS fans hated on TNG and TNG fans hated on DS9 etc etc…

A Trek doom and gloom blog, though they did peg the demise of Trek 4. Just goes to show even the worst bowler throws a strike on occasion.

Sam

More like a dog can bark three times without counting. They didn’t peg anything. They’ll believe anything bad about the current ST (or SW) and they’ll say (or insinuate) anything bad that frustrated fans are likely to believe. The central theme of their deception is that the current Trek shows are “actually” made under the same license as the Kelvin films. They spread this lie because they want to inflict misdirected JJ Abrams Derangement Syndrome from the more hostile faction of fandom onto what CBS is doing. And miraculously they get nothing but comments of agreement from Youtubers. It really is quite astounding.

Tiger2

That and the annoying ‘25% difference’ statement are the two things that still constantly gets brought up everywhere. It’s so annoying.

You can certainly hate the Kelvin films and Discovery, but the silly conspiracy theories behind them gets to be too much. And Youtube recommends me this junk every time now since I look up a lot of Star Trek news.

Sam

I first started hearing about the 25 percent thing over on BBS forums, but never traced it to any factual source. So it is ******** then?

Tiger2

One of the designers from DIS mentioned it AFAIK which is how it was started. But then CBS themselves said that wasn’t true. But once it was out, its all some people seem to have remembered or read because its stated like its a fact when it isn’t.

kmart

I’ve interviewed Eaves a couple of times for CINEFEX and even talked with him about the possibility of being involved on the writing end when they were still thinking of doing SKETCHBOOKS for the earlier TOS movies, and I gotta say, he seemed very nice but ‘company’ in a way that suggests he wouldn’t speak out of turn. I still buy the 25% as something he genuinely believed based on what he was told. That may make whoever told him a liar, but I get the idea that Eaves is a legitimately ethical Christian type rather than a ‘to church on Sunday & to hell on Monday’ kind. This is also the kind of thing that can turn into a really nasty witchhunt (as opposed to using that phrase willy-nilly), like when Ellison tried to find out who was responsible for airbrushing the points off Spock’s ears on early NBC promos. They kept passing the buck downward and eventually, to have a scapegoat,they supposedly fired the airbrush artist, who clearly was just following orders when he did the work. You can knock the guy if you don’t like his work, but don’t go after him on the basis of this.

You can block entire channels on YouTube pretty easily. Block that sucker and never look back.

Sam

What disgusts me the most is the coordination required for multiple people to get their lies straight.

unhappening

yeah but it died because hot stuff didn’t want to take less money… there’s still gonna be a 4th IMO… just a few months ago the head of paramount was touting the tarantino project… or everyone comes to their senses on this… but trek movies have been around for 30 years… and 30 years of doom and gloom. it’s not gonna stop. crazy that even though the die hards whine about into darkness it made nearly half a billion… for a trek movie that’s insane

@ unhappening: People are going to believe what they want, but Trek 4 (and Tarentino Trek) were both dead long before Paramount backpedaled on the contracts tendered to the two Chris’s. There will be another Trek on the big screen someday, but only when Paramount (or whoever owns the feature film license in the future) can make one at a budget more in line for a movie only capable of 300-400MM in WW box office revenue.

kmart

That’s PRECISELY what the QT movie is supposed to be – reasonably budgeted. I imagine it is something akin to the version of CASINO ROYALE he pitched around the turn of the century, doing it with Brosnan or Clooney along with Uma Thurman, as a hard ‘R’ and at a total budget of 40 mil. And it would have been so damned good. (I despise the reboot CR, almost as much as SKYFALL, which for me are as bad or worse in their own way than the Roger Moore flicks — they claim to honor Fleming while peeing all over the source material and basically each end with Bond failing his mission — yeah, that’s certainly true of how many Fleming Bonds? shouldn’t take too many fingers to count that low)

TG47

Yes, there have always been those for whom the only Trek is the series they first saw at whatever age.

Ironically, one of the reasons that The Cage was released in original form in the mid 80s was to show TOS fans that not only was TOS not the only valid Trek, TOS wasn’t even Roddenberry’s original concept.

But the season 1 and 2 teething pains of just about every series (excepting perhaps Voyager), has really fueled and given legs to the negativity.

I’m hoping the Picard show will be better… not just because of who’s in the writers room, but also because the concept had to be high quality and well cooked before Patrick Stewart was willing to say yes.

Professor Spock

Sam please don’t listen to Midnight’s Edge. Stop! Sam you should be happier in your life. Don’t believe in fear. Don’t worry, be happy.

Gnow

If Midnight Edge have lots of super duper spies to provide inside source why not dig some script, stage or costume photo for ppl to enjoy. Sigh.

unhappening

i’ve loved all eras of trek… i like it keeps changing and moving… this is gonna be fun…
and i assume in picard’s world they think spock died ten years ago

Professor Spock

I’m happy this is even real. It finally starts production. This show is going to be incredible. Picard is back and better than ever. Thank god this is different from TNG. Something new in Star Trek. The Pike series should be like this. This is how you do it. Star Trek has a bright future. Discovery was a bullet but Picard has intelligence.

What’s the tenure like over there?

Wheelie

Just a name and maybe a logo. That’s all I’m asking for right now.

Professor Spock

I agree with you. All I want is the title, that’s it!

Vulcan Soul

Is it unprecedented that a Star Trek show that went into production already did not have its title revealed?

kmart

I think the last couple Paramount movies didn’t have locked-in titles till after production started, but I wouldn’t swear to it. And INSURRECTION wasn’t a locked in title for a long while, maybe till after it wrapped. FIRST CONTACT was called RESURRECTION for a long while.

Kevin

characters from TNG that should appear:
-Q
-Guinan
-B-4 (Data)
-Beverly
-Riker and Troi
-Worf

Sam

I’m going to have to disagree on Q. His omnipotence makes him a character more appropriate to the episodic days of television. He wouldn’t work in a movie (a lot of fans have never seemed to understand this) and therefore not here. Let him remain a Berman Trek character.

Everyone else I’d be cool with. B-4 though should NOT be Data. I’ve always considered it to be a flat-footed assumption that he would merely assimilate all of Data’s memory dump, wake up one morning and suddenly be Data. He’s his own entity. And really, references to both Nemesis and VOY would likely be kept to a minimum since neither ended up being mainstream productions. This will advertised as being set 25 years after TNG, not 18 years after Nemesis.

Tiger2

Voyager was one of the highest rated Trek shows and it lasted for 7 seasons and spinned off another show. You realize its pilot was the biggest out of all the shows and seen by over 21 million people when it premiered and that was on UPN. Compare that to Discovery whose pilot got 9.6 million on CBS. Its actually the lowest seen pilot of all the spin offs. Even Enterprise got 12 million viewers.

I guess the point is AA itself is NOT a mainstream product. It has around 4-5 million subscribers. I highly doubt it gets more than 2-3 million people who watch DIS on it if that. CBS is trying to attract all the people who watched all the Trek shows of the past. I don’t disagree Voyager is not a high priority but my guess is if Janeway or 7 0f 9 showed up would make just as many headlines if Data or Worf would. Certainly for AA.

And Berman didn’t create Q. He had nothing to do with it, Gene Roddenberry did. And since its a continuation of that era, I wouldn’t shocked to see any character from there to pop up eventually. They shoved in Harry Mudd on Discovery, they will probably find a way to have other characters show up on this show if and when they think its appropriate.

TG47

Tiger2 I find the prospect of Q dropping in and snarling in 33rd Century more interesting than seeing him back with Picard.

I can imagine Q would have some choice comments for Mama Burnham, but might also find her interesting in a way similar to Janeway.

In fact, the Q continuum might find all the messing with the Burnhams’ timeline objectionable at some point.

But really, with 10 episodes and a cast of 6 new characters to get to know, I’d personally prefer to avoid seeing any TNG cast this season unless a cameo is essential to set up and contrast Picard’s life in this time and place.

Tiger2

For the record, I’m not bothered if we never saw Q again. But if he showed up, it would definitely garner lots of attention obviously. And if he showed up on Discovery, it would definitely gets loads more people to watch that show lol. I can see them really marketing that as a big deal. Actually, that would be fun, to see Q in the 33rd century curious about Burnham’s ship jumping so far in the future.

Someone on another site made a joke before the finale that it was Q who would show up to send them off to the 33rd century in the first place because they screwed up the current timeline too much. “My my, you people have surely made a mess of things here since you’ve arrived. Are you sure you are even from this universe? Why is everything so much more shinier and bigger on this ship? And those uniforms are ghastly. So off you go!” Obviously didn’t happen but I would’ve been fine with this direction too. ;D

As far as the TNG characters, as long as they are actually part of the story line and not just there to show up to say hi to Picard, I think its fine. But yes, if they are just there to make an appearance like Sarek was used on Discovery all season (I dare someone try and tell me one important role did he play in the story this season other than just to talk to Burnham) then its probably best not to use them.

But these are still the same people who makes Discovery, so you always have to take that into account. ;)

Sam

It’s nothing to do with who created him. He’s part of that family of ST shows and they already used him to death. Same with the Borg. Bringing back either would be like bringing Khan back.

Plus as I already said his omnipotence makes him an inappropriate obstacle for Picard in what’s being described as a ten-hour movie. Going up against him has about the same dramatic tension as training the dog to not piss on your sofa. He belongs to the time of episodic ST. And he already bookends TNG symmetrically.

Only reason I can think of why Picard should encounter Q again is if Picard died and Q was the last thing he thought he saw while crossing over. Which I suppose is better than if you saw Nixon.

Voyager’s pilot was certainly the most expensive at that time, but I don’t know what you mean by big. DS9’s Emissary is actually the highest-rated pilot (and Berman Trek episode period) if the dots on that Nielsen graph comparing Berman Trek shows is reliable. Voyager’s pilot was in the upper-range of what TNG scored, after that the series dropped to ratings just above TNG’s lowest scores and declined from there (pretty much in lockstep with DS9, except that DS9’s two year headstart means it was already in its third year when it declined to where VOY was in its first). Also availability of UPN continued to be a problem throughout VOY’s run, even causing frustrated concern among fans as late as when ENT approached its debut.

It doesn’t matter, none of the shows after TNG achieved mainstream recognition, making them secondary canon in regards to how much influence they have over newer productions made by different people (For example, this is the reason nobody can get Section 31 right). You don’t even necessarily want to remind target audiences that these other shows existed, because it reaffirms how much they’ve never gotten into ST. This trimming of the fat not only SHOULD happen whenever ST comes back from extended hiatus, it is also largely inevitable. It’s natural selection.

This doesn’t mean you can’t reference the other shows. But TOS and TNG are primary canon because they’re the Trek world that everybody knows. And the CBS stuff is too (mainstream or not) because it’s current, coordinated and within their interests to cross-promote. When ST gets reinvented again a lot of the current CBS stuff will lose influence over canon due to obscurity. Maybe the Picard show wins out, while STD goes the way of ENT. Every ST wants to be mainstream, even at the expense of those prior Treks that couldn’t be.

Tiger2

First off, it doesn’t matter how ‘mainstream’ they are in society, simply that they are all canon, part of the same universe and known in the fanbase itself. End of the day, this is being aimed at mostly Star Trek fans, the same fans who still watch all the shows pretty much every day on TV and streaming sites like Netflix and Amazon and that want to see all parts of it connected. And to give the writers of both the Kelvin movies and now Discovery credit, they seem to do all the time. None of the shows are ‘secondary canon’ they are simply canon. Either they are part of the same universe or not.

And yes all that is being discussed here is that they are basically referenced or that certain story elements from various shows are used like the mentioned Section 31 invented in DS9 is used in STID and now Discovery. MACOS from Enterprise was used in Beyond. That’s all I’m saying anyway. I’m not suggesting Janeway will get her own show, but yes I can definitely see her appearing in an episode on a show in the future just like Pike showed up on Discovery. No one cares or ever heard about Pike but Star Trek fans, because end of the day they are trying to appeal to them. Discovery isn’t being watched by a ton of new people, its the same people like you and I who has been watching it for decades from TOS to Enterprise and they know that.

And as for Voyager and DS9 ratings, I’m talking about viewership ratings, ie, the number of people who watched. Emissary got around 12 million, which is still phenomenal at the time but Voyager got 21 million for Caretaker. I’m simply talking about interest within the fanbase itself. Yes, in mainstream society everyone knows basically TOS and TNG. But those people don’t watch or care about Star Trek just because they know who Spock or Data are. I’m talking within the Star Trek community itself who actually WATCH the shows and paying to watch Discovery now, which few people outside of Star Trek fandom even knows exists.

But people act like fans stopped watching Voyager when thats far from the truth. That show is watched just as much TODAY as most of the shows are thanks to streaming sites and constant reruns. Netflix proved that when it showed the top 10 rewatched Star Trek episodes and 7 of the 10 belonged to Voyager (and pay close attention to which species appeared in these episodes).

https://www.startrek.com/article/netflixs-top-10-most-re-watched-trek-episodes

And of course the Borg will show up again lol. Did you see that list? They are a GUARANTEE to bring huge interest (and ratings) to the fanbase. No offense, but its this odd narrow minded thinking that had people convinced the prime timeline was ‘dead’ for good after the first Kelvin movie arrived or that the 24th century universe was never coming back after Nemesis bombed. EVERYTHING at some point will eventually come back because Star Trek will keep being made for literally decades and will have a multitude of shows. Its not, ‘if’, its only when. And the Borg will probably reappear sooner than later now that both shows, Discovery and Picard, are now in eras where they can show them. People on Discovery already said they wanted to bring the Borg in but couldn’t because of the the show’s setting. Well, that’s no longer a problem. ;)

And I never get this weird logic, the Klingons have been brought back over and over again to the point of tedium. They have been on every show countless times and according to Memory Alpha has been in 140 episodes in all shows from TOS to Discovery. The Romulans, for example, have only been in 57 episodes total across every show. Crazy huh? So if they can get used over and over again to the point of ad naseum I’m not sure why others like the Borg can’t be used once every few years?

I mean you just used ‘Khan’ as an example and the guy was brought back just a few years ago in STID. They tried to get Nick Meyer to make a Khan mini-series just a year ago and its still rumored a Khan show (ugh) may even happen. It’s proof NOTHING that showed up once (and was successful) will show up again. Q may not show up on the Picard show but he’s going to show up again SOME day because of all the new Trek that is happening just like Mudd, Sarek, Pike and Number one showed up again.

Everything old is new again in Hollywood, especially with old franchises like Star Trek and can reimagine old characters to new audiences in time, from Kirk to the Borg.

Sam

You have repeatedly referred to ST as a multiverse. What does that mean if not allowing for multiple interpretations of it to exist?

Who’s in charge of ‘canon’ if not the producers? In Berman Trek’s day the reference books were written by the series’ consultants, making them authoritative. That condition’s not there anymore. I suppose you have Memory Alpha. But no matter who it is, they merely *interpret* canon just as the fans do, just as the producers do. Except some of the producers are likely to be a LOT less researched, it’s inevitable. And occasionally some of them just don’t care that much for what else has been done, being more preoccupied with the integrity of the current project (Nick Meyer remains probably my favorite storyteller attached to ST.)

So what happens whenever canon is violated? From what I’ve seen fans pout and stamp their feet for years to come, but that’s about it. Sometimes the producers respond by rolling things back. From ENT’s and STD’s track records, I feel like this hurts more often than helps the series’ credibility. The STD finale in particular is full of holes; one can only hope whatever they’re doing is worth it for them.

STD can’t even keep consistent within itself. How is it supposed to get the other shows right? It often doesn’t. Kelvin films had that problem as well. They can’t get S31 right. STD couldn’t get the dynamics of Spock’s family right. What likelihood do these people even have time to research the rest of DS9 and ENT, let alone all the encounters with various bland, bumpy-headed aliens-of-the-week on VOY? They really don’t.

They don’t seem to reference the Berman Trek spin-offs “all the time.” They make an occasional ENT reference that new viewers wouldn’t even catch, or they abuse S31 by not having done the research. Primarily they refer to TOS, which is as it should be.

It’s not a huge stretch to imagine the Picard movie will primarily reference popular TNG canon, and also the 2009 movie, while ignoring (or misrepresenting) a lot of the shifting politics of DS9. Not unlike the latter TNG films did. It will also reference STD as one of the shows That Star Trek Is Doing Now.

The fans aren’t enough. They couldn’t keep ENT or the TNG films going. Fans insist they’re the only ones who factor, but historically that has never been the case. It’s guaranteed every new CBS Trek will continue trying to draw a wider audience to AA. And S3 may be STD’s last chance to try to do so.

Re ratings, you’ve cited the 12 million viewers figure for both ENT and DS9 pilots. No offense, but both cannot be right. This is why:

http://www.madmind.de/2009/05/02/all-star-trek-movies-and-episodes-in-two-charts/

(Chart btw clearly shows that people DID leave ST and not come back; this happened every single season after TNG ended)

I never said they wouldn’t bring the Borg back, only that they shouldn’t. I can think of nothing that VOY hasn’t already done to death with them. And I think everyone agrees Klingons have been overused (JJ certainly felt so, and he barely knows ST). I only like watching Klingons get reinvented, but I fear fans would rather have it known that ENT S4’s Ruffles Have Ridges (augments) story arc was still considered current. In which case I’d just as soon not see more Klingons either.

Khan’s miniseries is probably dead. Meyer basically shrugged and said the script was in CBS’ hands, then went on to say his own contributions to STD couldn’t really be quantified. On both accounts it sounded like he was treated badly, left CBS on less than ideal terms and is too polite to talk about it. If CBS still wants a miniseries they should do Capt Pike. That makes more sense than giving Pike the full-fledged TV show that fans think they want, which doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that would ever happen anyway.

And Q… if they absolutely had to use him it should be for the Picard show. But every facet of his character that can be explored already has been. And I remain steadfast in insisting his omnipotence makes him an episodic character and not a movie or serialized one.

Tiger2

OK I get a lot of your points. I disagree with a lot of them lol, but I understand them.

Sam, I will just say this, if they wanted to not worry about canon and all the other shows from TOS to ENT and everything in between then all they had to do was REBOOT the franchise and problem solved. I have said this over and over and over and over and over again. But they didn’t do that, they want to keep it in the same timeline as all the others so there it is. I’m not really disagreeing with you in one way, I feel it IS hard to keep up with all the canon when you have 700 hours of shows and films that literally spans three centuries.

I’ve always said just make Discovery its own thing and start anew. I would’ve been fine with that. But they didn’t do it, so I’m arguing FROM a canon perspective and from that perspective it ALL matters if they say it takes place in the prime universe, period. And maybe thats exactly why they are now setting it a thousand years into the future so they CAN avoid all of that and I’m 100% on board with it. They should’ve just set the show in the 32nd century on day one. It was a mistake to set it in the 23rd century and certainly so close to TOS and they obviously realize that now.

And of course they mainly referenced Enterprise because both the Kelvin movies and Discovery are hundred years before the 24th shows so its not shocking lol. But even then they still find little references to include those other shows which actually goes AGAINST your argument and that they do research and try to keep all of it in line, but yes they are only human too. But my guess is with the Picard show, clearly they are going to be very inclusive with everything.

Michael Chabon wrote they even had a 24th century writers leesson for a week to understand where everything is during that century with the Borg, Dominion, Cardassians, etc. So they are taking this very seriously AS they should be or don’t bother! They want to get the canon right.

As far as the ratings on DS9, VOY and ENT, we’ll just agree to disagree. I stand by it FIRMLY because I remembering reading all of that when those shows originally debut. I can still remember reading my copy of the L.A. Times and an article about how big Voyager ratings were for the pilot. Nothing has come close to that since.

As far as not relying just on fans, the Kelvin movies WERE meant to bring in new fans and yet it died after the third one lol, so yeah. End of the day Star Trek will probably be something the hardcore fans will be most committed to and probably why we are getting the Picard show in the first place. And we don’t know WHAT they are going to do with that show so I’m not going to assume much of anything until we get actual news.

But sure its not exactly a leap its going to be inundated with TNG era references at least, especially when the person who created it got her start writing the Voyager relaunch novels and those books are nothing but a plethora of fan service stuff in it. And it still proves NOTHING from these shows has died. Fans have been reading 24th century stories since Nemesis.

Sam

I can sympathize with wanting to do a full reboot for Trek. J Michael Straczynski pitched an idea for a ST: Reboot The Universe concept some fifteen years ago, before JJ Abrams was given the keys, and I really hoped something like that would happen. Even after the 2009 movie I imagined someone would do a full reboot for the next ST TV property.

However I’m not sure how a full reboot would work, with the Kelvin movies already being mostly a reboot. I see their connective tissue with the so-called prime universe as being largely lip service to the fans, much the way I see Roddenberry’s “Enterprise reboot” explanation in TMP as being lip service. Outside of that connective tissue the 2009 movie checks off all the boxes of a modern TV-to-movie adaptation. I always thought it would be cool if CBS Trek acknowledged Kelvin Trek, but didn’t necessarily expect them to (and even defended any hypothetical decision not to).

My current thinking is that CBS Trek and all its recent plans would have to fail before another reboot was possible.

I’d also predicted a new TV launch of ST would need to start by going back to the classic characters just as the Kelvin movies did. I never suggested this would involve recasting the entire crew all over again (but was ridiculed for allegedly saying it did), but it would use “some” of the regulars as STD eventually did. Now I think STD bungled it. So they’re doing the next best thing while Patrick Stewart is still alive.

I’m not sure how I feel about a ST novelist show-running the next series. I personally don’t believe having novelists on ENT S4 improved that show, and I could tell from back when I used to read ST novels that it was the same type of fanservice (as opposed to what’s in the Kelvin films, which I characterize as more of an appealing to viewers who know ST mostly through osmosis, ie a polar opposite type of fanservice). However I’m inclined towards optimism on the Picard series. I’m also reassured by having it pitched as a Patric Stewart show rather than the fan-desired X-number-of-years-after-Nemesis show.

Also not sure how I feel about a show set 1000 years ahead. Divorced from the Berman era of ST (with its depiction of static timeships that Janeway kept encountering) I think it could prove interesting as long as it thinks outside the box of fan assumptions (“Well obviously the Federation and Starfleet are still there, right?” Maybe not). I dislike though that a finale with more holes than the season leading up to it was the trade-off. I also feel like it’s a compromise. Someone might have eventually pitched an original idea that required a 32nd century setting (in fact it’s been pitched before). Now they can’t, because a show with a history of its own problems already got there first.

In general I don’t want ST to be less consistent in portrayal than it already was during the TOS movies I-VI (my favorite period of ST). But I don’t need it to be more consistent than that either.

Tiger2

“I’m also reassured by having it pitched as a Patric Stewart show rather than the fan-desired X-number-of-years-after-Nemesis show.”

I’m not sure what this means because by all accounts its EXACTLY that. It takes place 20 years after Nemesis and we are going to see how much not only Picard has changed in that time but the universe in general. That’s all most fans wanted, just a CONTINUATION of the universe, not any one show. Honestly, I don’t think most even cared we had to know what happened with Picard and TNG characters and just something completely different on its own, but now thats a nice bonus. Most just wanted something, ANYTHING beyond more tiresome prequels. I just wanted stories that revolved around 24th century species again and hopefully new ones. And no it doesn’t have to be the Borg lol, but would love to see Cardassians again! Those guys rocked!

I think a full reboot just seems to make sense. Thats really the ONLY way you will get a full on TOS show again (which I don’t personally want at all, but you have to be crazy not to consider it). And yes I know it has been suggested in the past, but as shown, no one in charge seem to want to go that route. THe Kelvin movie is pretty close of course but as STID proves the premise still has limits. With a full reboot there would’ve been less whining about the Kelvin moves in general, but just a guess.

But I’m not pushing for one that badly if they start going forward which the next few years it looks like they finally are with Picard and now DIS. This has been the most excited I been about Star Trek since Enterprise ended, so I hope they get both of them right.

As someone once said, the sky is the limits!

As far as your other points, fair enough!

@ Kevin. Well, that’s pretty much everyone except Geordi and Wesley. So you want this to be a reunion show. Nothing wrong with that, except virtually everyone has said that isn’t happening.

My excitement level for the Picard series was a 10/10 prior to season 2 of Discovery. After, it’s more like a 6/10. The good news is, I’d imagine that even if the Picard series is poorly-written nonsense like Discovery is, I’ll enjoy seeing Stewart as Jean-Luc again. Kind of like how every time Anson Mount showed up as Pike, it was like actual Star Trek had begun playing.

I’m hoping for more, but if that’s all I get — and I’m apparently expecting that to be all I get — then I guess things could be worse.

Commander K

I don’t think we will see an enterprise E or F in this series. This show is going to be so insanely different to star trek we know and love people will be wondering what they have watched.

Dr Beckett

I am totally on board with this.
To be honest, Discovery is also a completely different Trek to what we have grown accustomed to, and I love it too.

alphantrion

So then the question becomes if there is an “essence” of Star Trek or whether anyone can do anything they want with it? People would say that entertainment properties don’t really have any essence or anything that makes them unique, but sometimes going so far off a known formula just because it is the “modern way” can cause a total opposite reaction to what was intended. I think stuff need to be updated, this is a must, but an update mustn’t necessarily lose that special something that make the the product what it is. I wouldn’t want to eat a Big Mac without a Big Mac sauce just because its more healthier, or I wouldn’t want to drink a coke that doesn’t inherently have that coke taste. You can upgrade the ingredients, you can make them modern, but you have to be careful that you don’t lose that “essence”.

DaddlerTheDalek

Good news.

LOFC_Ed

I have a feeling Picard will be a character thrilled at the drstruction of Romulas….someone who is now a bit sinister

TG47

Can’t see this at all LOFC_Ed.

Patrick Stewart has talked about how through time he has come to appreciate the kind of positive leader and values Picard represents.

In fact, he’s talked about how in our current political climate in North America and Europe (including the UK) a character with Picard’s leadership is needed all the more.

So, my sense is that Picard will be living in a less than ideal Federation and diplomatic environment, and he won’t be leading from the bridge of the flagship.

But he will be showing us what ethical leadership looks like in difficult circumstances…

That is, this series will take on the critique that it’s easy to be angels in paradise, and show Picard all the more worthy as a leader in hard times.

Jlex

Anyone hear of the rumor that Picard will be the head of section 31 on this show? I’m curious if this is true?

Fred

I hope the series has a visit from John De Lance AKA Q

Old

Damn Picard is the greatest fictional character ever. I sincerely hope they do him justice and are far above the subterranean quality of Discovery.

As long as they put story, dialogue, ethics, diplomacy over action, melodrama, pew pew it can be great. Bet they won’t though.

Del Cox

I hope they get the uniforms right. This takes place during or a little after the future time frame in “All Good Things…”, which is accepted to be the canon direction for Starfleet’s development. Obviously some details like the Enterprise D still being around were incorrect, but I’m willing to suppose that could be attributed to Picard’s knowledge of the future changing decisions that led to its destruction.
I doubt he was on the uniform design committee, though.