The third and final season of Star Trek: Picard brings in the cast of Star Trek: The Next Generation for what showrunner Terry Matalas has dubbed a “proper sendoff” for the TNG crew. But he is promising there is more to season 3 beyond just TNG.
Season 3 could have been “Star Trek: Legacy”
In an interview for the new Den of Geek Magazine, Picard showrunner Terry Matalas talks about how much the show changes for the third season:
In my mind, I would’ve called it ‘Star Trek Legacy,’ I mean, it is truly a Picard story. He is the focus. But the spirit of it is different than seasons one and two, just because of what it is.
He also makes it clear that there is more going on than just bringing back the TNG crew:
I think that it’s important to Deep Space Nine fans to feel seen. It’s a continuation of Voyager too, of course, with Seven of Nine (Jeri Ryan) in our show. If you’re going to be in this time period, there’s such a rich opportunity to honor what came before.
Regarding the time period, the executive producer confirmed season 3 picks up “a year and a half to two years” after season 2, which puts it into the first decade of the 25th century.
Matalas has previously hinted that season 3 will include some legacy characters from both Deep Space Nine and Voyager, in addition to Worf and Seven. Matalas has previously said Worf’s path since Nemesis has a connection to the Dominion War. In his summer 2022 interview with TrekMovie, Matalas also confirmed “the fallout of the Dominion War is important in the plot.”
In the new interview with Den of Geek, the showrunner spoke about how important it was for the show to connect to the broader Trek universe:
I just felt like Picard season three needed to feel like it fit into this universe. It was very important to me, first and foremost, that it treads new ground, but [also feel] like a continuation of the stories and arcs set up 30 years ago. There’s a fine line between fan service and just honoring the universe that you’re in. So, I just went full tilt at the things that mattered to me.
Coming on Feb 16
The final season premieres on Thursday, Feb. 16, 2023, exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., with new episodes of the 10-episode-long season available to stream weekly on Thursdays.
Picard streams exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S.A. It is distributed concurrently by Paramount Global Content Distribution on Amazon Prime Video in more than 200 countries and territories, and in Canada it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.
Keep up with news for the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
Worf and Seven make it enough to say it’s all VOY/TNG/DS9-ish.
Yeah… For all we know this could just be Worf saying something like, “On DS9 we did (this) when something like this happened.”
True, but fans really want to see more of those characters and Matalas obviously knows that. It would feel misleading if he says this show is a sequel to DS9 as well as TNG but no one from the show actually shows up besides Worf.
So it’s a sequel to Star Trek? Cool!
I have two fan wishes for this season: appearances by the Enterprise-E and Kira. That’s it. I have hope on the latter with DS9 teases like the one in this article
Those would be awesome
I just want to see the E-E again because its my favorite Enterprise and was only in 3 movies. But for Kira, I just think the dynamic that she had with Worf in DS9 was really interesting. Essentially two number ones with differing viewpoints. Their screentime together was not a lot, all things considered, and I think it would be interesting to see them together again, all these years later. No idea if anything like that is going to happen, but until its all over, it is fun to think about!
Yes, Kira, yes, yes please.
Yes would LOVE to see Kira show up! Fingers crossed!
It would be weird to see the Enterprise-E when the Enterprise-F has at least a secondary ship role in the show.
I suppose. I’ve seen some speculation that the show has the launch of the Enterprise-F, so perhaps the E is “retired” or something. I’d just love one last appearance. 3 appearances of that beautiful ship isn’t enough.
I wondered if Riker is captain of the Enterprise-F (after returning to Starfleet) but is seconded to Picard’s mission. It would be fitting given it was established Riker hoped to eventually captain the Enterprise.
You may be surprised at what Enterprise shows up. As players of Star Trek Online have noticed in the trailer, the likeness of Enterprise F briefly appears and Star Trek Online ship designers were brought in for Picard season 2.
Enterprises seem to be very short-lived in the Star Trek universe, with the possible exception of the NCC-1701 and its apparent multiple refits.
Yep. Even in Star Trek 3 when they said the 1701 refit was 20 years old they were probably only referring to the refit version of the ship as the original 1701 was already over 10 years old before Kirk even took command of her.
The line about it being 20 years old was an intentional mistake by Bennett. He knew the ship was older in-universe but didn’t want to alienate casual fans and normal moviegoers.
Interesting. I don’t get it tho, what would that alienate anyone?
And the irony that the 1701’s name was influenced by CVN-65, which was almost 50 years old when decommissioned.
Yep. It’s been confirmed we will see the E-F this season….
Matalas has said we will see multiple Enterprises this season.
We likely won’t see either. The E-E likely meets its fate off-screen.
We may see the E-D Saucer at least, if the rumors are true…
A Janeway appearance is going to be the worst kept secret.. I cannot wait!!
Yep. With all the talking Mulgrew is doing and all the talking Kurtzman isn’t doing it seems all but certain she at least makes an appearance in PIC S3 and sets up something more for a live action show.
Really hope so! Fingers crossed!
We shall see. I mean it makes total sense. Janeway tried to get Seven in Starfleet and the brass refused. Now that she is in there I am betting Janeway is the one that assigned her to the Titan A
might as well think of this as the new Star Trek movie bc we sure as hell aint getting that 14th movie any time soon!
I think if most fans had to choose between another movie or this, this would win out by a light year.
Unquestionably. There’s a lot more room for character development and complex storylines in a season of television, even a modern ten-episode season, than in a movie. Star Trek’s natural habitat is TV.
I’ll take a new movie instead…I have real concerns on all of this hype, and I don’t think the new fans that SNW, DSC and Prodigy have brought in will really care all that much about a geriatric TNG-era swang song, unless it’s really good — like SNW level really good.
Before going down that particular rabbit hole, I’d like hard numbers (as opposed to idle internet speculation) about how many “new fans” that Prodigy and Lower Decks have really brought in; you have to have a doctorate in Trekspertise to appreciate all the Easter eggs, which (particularly in Lower Decks) are the crux of the series.
As for SNW, perhaps, but it also assumes some level of TOS knowledge, and I think TNG is ultimately even more of a cultural touchstone than TOS. “Resistance is futile,” and all that.
Unfortunately no one has those numbers. I have personally seen new classes of fans showing up in large numbers at recent conventions, particularly in regards to Discovery. Some people here who don’t go to conventions make fun of me for bringing that up, but I would argue that “seeing with my own eyes” anecdotal data is better than them sitting on their ass and making fun of anecdotal data when their opinion is based on 100% “trust me, you’re wrong” conjecture…lol
my youngest son (22yo) discovered Star Trek all on his own with Lower Decks, and it sprung off into him watching ENT and DS9. My older kids hate it all, so their out of the will.
Similar boat here. My wife despises Classic Trek, but watches the newer stuff with me (she even tries to watch Lower Decks without me if she feels I’m taking too long with other stuff).
You certainly can’t go wrong if Lower Decks, Enterprise and Deep Space Nine is your first foray into Star Trek!!! All great shows IMO!
But you can’t go wrong if watching any Star Trek makes you want to watch more Star Trek! ;D
While I’m no Hollywood insider, I suspect that the data analysts at Paramount have a pretty good idea.
I’m not so sure. I would say Strange New Worlds would work a ton better for people who are not very familiar with TOS at all.
I agree, I think out of all the new shows SNW is probably the most accessible for new fans just like TNG, VOY and ENT were when they first started. It makes it much easier when you’re watching something episodic and every story is basically its own again. I just can’t imagine how much new fans can get into Discovery or Picard lol; at least when compared to SNW.
I been rewatching a bit of SNW the past week and it’s nice to have a show you can jump around with again and not feel lost. I rewatched 5 episodes in the last week and all completely out of order. Try doing that with season 4 of Discovery and see how far that gets you. ;)
I didn’t mean in terms of it being more episodic. I meant in terms of it’s connection to the rest of Trek. It doesn’t require any knowledge of previous Trek anything at all and actually because they play fast and loose with Trek universal rules if one is less familiar with Trek one is less likely to pick up on all the distracting mistakes.
Yeah I agree with that as well of course. You don’t really need to have any built in knowledge to enjoy the show. I was also only saying because it’s episodic, you can just get the gist of the show more easily as well and it’s not some grand mystery box like the others.
After those dreadfull two seasons of the Patrick Steward show and the pretty fun Beyond from 2016 I’d actaully much rather take another Kelvin movie.
Well if third season sucks as much as the first two, we’ll definitely be in agreement! ;D
Some have the opposite view: Picard pretty fun. Beyond dreadful lol
True. There are many many different views. Believe it or not there are people who think Star Trek Discovery is good, too.
Maybe. But I would vote for whichever one has no one from Secret Hideout involved. And right now that would more likely be a feature film. So I vote for that. Less likely to get screwed up.
I have pretty much the same issue with the Kelvin films as I do some of the shows, but I still like both of them obviously. And I can’t take another super villain in a big ship trying to destroy the Federation story line the movies have done four times straight now. I was already sick of it by STID. But then again I can’t take another the galaxy is always in peril stuff Picard and Discovery has done season after season. I’m hoping that won’t be the case with season 3 of Picard, but the trailer doesn’t give me a lot of hope on that end.
Honestly, I am getting the vibe that this will be more like the Trek version of The Kingdom of the Krystal Skull. In terms of a sequel that many were happy to see but after were rather unhappy with and were mostly thinking, “this is what we waited for?”
TNG and the Crystal Skull would be good imo as i loved that movie (and am looking forward to the next one more than anything else coming soon) but it’ll probably more TNG Awakens / Rise of Picard
With all due respect to your opinion of IJ&KotCS… Ultimately it was not well received. It felt very much like a “been there done that” rehash with nothing really special happening. Plus Last Crusade did have Indy riding into the sunset as a symbolic ‘finale’ to the series. So it sort of undid the previous finale only to give the audience nothing new. This Picard season 3 I’m feeling like will be nothing really special and in the end will feel unnecessary at all. Of course, we must wait and see for sure. But that is the feeling I’m getting. And yes, I’ve been wrong before.
No offense dude, but neither is Star Trek Nemesis lol. But you have it made known how much you like it just the same. And the movie has always had a strong critic rating. It was mostly divided by fans (like so many things today ;)). Everyone will go against the grain on something. All that matters is they enjoy it.
But like it or not, Nemesis did act very much like an actual finale with real changes. One could argue even more so that Last Crusade. Which many feel was good.
Yeah it was a finale, it was still a bad one though. And I think most people thought The Last Crusade was suppose to be the last but of course those movies made too much money to just stop at three.
LOL I hope not. Speaking of the Indiana Jones 5 trailer dropped and it looks really good. But so did the KOTCS trailer. But fingers crossed like with all the new Star Trek.
It looks great. Indy is up there with Trek for next level anticipation for me. next summer looking little bit like summer 89. final Indiana Jones and a Keaton Batman movie. no Trek movie tho 😔
Yeah… Forced to admit I liked the trailer even though I found it somewhat confusing. But it did it’s job in that it got me Jonesing for the film! (pun intended) Especially once I heard that version of the Indy cue.
As long as Indy doesnt get a sword through his chest by his son….
Seasons 1 & 2: We’ve shared our pain.
Season 3: We gain strength from the sharing.
Well S2, for sure. I loved Picard S1. One major difference between S1 and S2 was Matalas’s involvement — that is concerning.
I’m the other way around. S1 was awful and I loved S2.
S1 was a lot of set up with absolutely no pay off and S2 was just pure fun for me (though I could have done without the Picard coma episode which was fine but still… not a fan of those kind of eps).
Overall they were both bad bud I would say S2 improved about half way through. Once they found their focus the show moved OK. Now I think the goal of the season was a very good idea. But how they went about it was the mistake. Many claim that Matalas’ involvement dropped after the first 3-5 episodes so he could focus more on S3. And that does not bode well as the show actually got better (no, it was never good, just better) the further into the season it got.
What do you know of my pain?
Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light.
Or onto a streaming service.
Let me weep for both of you
I mean this isn’t a surprise, he has said this before but it is nice to hear. I don’t really care who specifically shows up (I love them all) but if I had to pick, it would be Janeway, Kira, Bashir, Chakotay, O’Brien, Dax or Tuvok. I don’t expect all of them lol, but 2 or 3 at least, even if it’s just a cameo.
I have my fingers crossed and hope this is the season fans have been wanting since the first one, but it is exciting we are getting a full on TNG season with a lot of legacy characters and real Star Trek lore dealing with the after effects of the Dominion. I still think that should’ve been part of the story line in season one since that’s what most fans cared about.
I’m really looking forward to this one.
I was really looking forward to Season 2 too. That didn’t turn out well.
Hopefully third time’s the charm.
Terry really wants us to forget S2. Don’t worry Terry, everyone deserves a second chance, I’m on board.
Yeah I really want to forget both seasons lol, but especially season 2. I’m just hoping this third season goes like most of the other third seasons in the classic shows and be a stark uptick in quality.
Gosh, it’s like they finally decided to give them market what it wanted.
A whole swath, dozens and dozens, of novels were successfully published in the Relauch continuity proving there were interesting stories to be told post Voyager in this era and that audiences wanted them to be told.
One really has to wonder how much of the was just Patrick Stewart’s ego, and the requirement to lock the Prime Universe into the future the first Kelvin movie created for it.
I have no doubt Kirsten Beyer has a perfectly goo idea to propose to Patrick that he rejected before Chabon was given leave by Patrick to come back with one last try.
Anyway, I’m just glad logic won in the end.
What requirement are you talking about regarding making the KU the world Picard is in? Sure, there are bits and pieces of evidence of that all over Secret Hideout. Enough to hint that all these shows truly are set in the KU. But the producers keep telling us it’s not. So I’m curious, apart from some visual clues, what “requirement” do you think exists?
I think the requirements they are referring to is the destruction of the Romulan homeworld in the first Kelvin movie in the Prime Universe. I didn’t think it was that bad it could lead to a lot of interesting storylines.
That’s not really a KU requirement. That was set in the canonical universe. I was thinking that all the shows were actually required to be set in the KU. Again, I know SH tells us they aren’t but watching the shows it makes more sense they are set in the KU than they are in Prime.
There isn’t a single canon reference of them being in the Kelvin universe though. Both SNW and Picard makes that pretty clear. SNW couldn’t even exist as a show if it was in the KU considering Pike and Spock are serving together and Kirk is actually on the Farragut. And Kirk and Spock obviously didn’t meet in Starfleet Academy like they did in the movie. I have no idea how anyone can argue these shows are based in the KU, especially now.
They also know the Kelvin Universe as a parallel Universe in Discovery season 3. One of the people who fought in the Temporal Wars was from the TNG era of the Kelvin Universe.
Yeah, I kinda feel like that was a throwaway line designed to excite fans more than anything else. Also it was nothing definite. Just made them aware of the possibility. I never placed a lot of stock in it myself.
Either way, it’s canon. They made it very clear the Kelvin universe is it’s own separate thing on Discovery and Yor traveled from it in the 24th century. (I wish they did a better job making that clear in the movies themselves but it is what it is).
It just looks like it belongs there. From the warp effect to the phasers to the general look & feel of the production design. If one were to look at it with no sound it evokes the feel of the KU far more than the look of the Prime.
They mentioned the Kelvin universe as a parallel universe in Discovery season 3. So it is the prime Universe .
No, it’s not. Not any more than the MU is Prime.
Vulcan still exists in the TV shows after its destruction in the KU which I think is pretty definitive.
The link is that events before Picard cover the destruction of Romulus which is how Spock and Nero end up time-travelling and causing the KU where Star Trek (2009) and the other films are set.
But yes they have incorporated design elements of the KU though that’s kind of a sensible retcon given they’re meant to represent divergent versions of the ‘same’ world, not to mention brand consistency. That and all of them are made with newer technology and more expensive production values than the older shoes.
I assume we’re meant to believe TNG or DS9 would have that KU look but don’t for the same reason TOS looks like it does.
While disappointed by the first two seasons, I’m so looking forward to season 3. It’s going to be a treat to see these characters again after so long. I’m a little cynical of the VOY/DS9 connection but a Janeway cameo wouldn’t be a surprise. With Avery Brooks seemingly retired from acting and definitely retired from anything Trek, the only DS9 character that would make any sense, is Jadzia Dax. Maybe she’s waiting for Worf in the afterworld?
I really, really hope they don’t do this. DS9 was all about real consequences, and magically resurrecting yet another Trek character totally cheapens that. Jadzia was one of my favorites — don’t get me wrong. But Terry Farrell ultimately decided to leave, just as Shatner did.
Doogie is suggesting Jadzia is still dead and Worf would see her in the afterlife. Plus Jadzia’s death was punishment from Berman. He tried to strong arm Terry Farrell and wouldn’t allow her to have even a recurring role when she didn’t accept his terms.
Farrell, Crosby and even Nimoy (for a while) all did decide to leave. But Shatner didn’t ever decide to leave. Ron Moore and Brannon Braga wrote the script in which Kirk was killed, and Shatner agreed to be cast in the movie that they wrote.
Well Shatner wasn’t ‘working’ in Star Trek at the time. His last job ended in TUC and the chances of him playing Kirk again anytime after looked slim since the franchise went another way and retired his character. So I can understand that at the time. The reality is after Generations, the only other TOS cast members who appeared in Trek again was Takei in Voyager in 1996 and not again until Nimoy in the first Kelvin movie in 2009. No other cast member ever revisited their roles until Takei again recently on Lower Decks.
From that viewpoint, the odds of him revisiting Kirk again was already very slim no matter how people feel about the death itself.
I would love to see Jadzia return.
I think it would be difficult to pull off in the realm of PIC with only ten episodes, but resurrecting Jadzia for an episode or two wouldn’t be impossible. Jadzia interacted with Dax’s past symbionts, and Ezri even interacted with Joran. If Ezri ever returned, perhaps she needs to resurrect Jadzia to solve a problem? Doesn’t seem like too difficult a story to tell.
Going to put this prediction out there. Ezri Dax is one of the people we will see. She will be captain of the Titan or the Enterprise-F.
Also, would not at all be surprised to see Garak and Bashir if the show goes to Cardassia.
Def not captain of the Titan. The prequel comics to season 3 tells us who that is. And I think her being captain of the Ent-F would be too cutsie.
Eh? The prequel comics don’t tell us who the captain is.
Well I don’t want to spoil anything but the comics between Picard season 2 and season 3 have Picard on the Titan and it does introduce the Captain of the Titan A. I won’t say who it is or the story tho.
I read those comics, it doesn’t.
The captain of the Titan-A is played by an actor from Twelve Monkeys that I’m blanking on.
SORRY! I went back and re-read. I was thinking of the Stargazer captain.
Garak has been disposed of already in “new prime canon”. He is not available any more.
I really, truly hope that this season delivers what fans have been clamoring for – good Star Trek with beloved characters, a final swan song. Nemesis was such a dour note for the TNG franchise to end on – in fact their entire run was a series of missed opportunities. The Dominion War should’ve been a big screen affair, but the producers played it too safe and didn’t go that route. Now there’s a chance it can be done right.
Unfortunately, the writers of modern Trek have shown little capacity to tell good stories, with Picard being the abysmal low point. I thought season one was rancid dreck, and I haven’t seen season two but I’ve read much the same from fan opinions online. Picard has been an embarrassing addition to the canon according to most sources I’ve heard, and it would be a real shame if the third season succeeded in further alienating fans with its terrible writing and disregard for legacy characters.
Picard is my least favorite show in the franchise right now. Discovery is my second least favorite. So even though I still support both shows, I’m still very disappointed with them and obviously more so with Picard over Discovery. Because it IS bringing back beloved characters and actors. It is focusing again on my favorite era of the franchise again. It has the potential to bring back story lines fans like me wanted to see extended like the Dominion War. But the first two seasons ended up being SO bad in so many ways (you’re not missing anything with season 2) it would be depressing that season 3 ended up as bad as those.
I am remaining more optimistic and I have seen several Star Trek YouTubers who absolutely hates Discovery and the first two seasons of Picard has praised the third season after getting an early viewing. So that gives me some hope that if their minds can be changed then maybe mine will be too. I think everyone knows this is the last season to get it right. And it’s suppose to be the season to set up the next show in the 25th century. So if fans hate it, it will not destroy not just a reunion of these characters after 20 years but whatever they are planning going forward with future spin offs (I mean it could still happen but it could turn into another Section 31 development hell situation if fans are that put off ;)). So they have a lot riding on this one.
Agreed. The writing on staff for Picard seem to lack any sense of narrative, or direction. It’s been a completely blown opportunity.
I understand your hope. I used to have it with the Secret Hideout fare until Strange New Worlds. Once that came around hope for Star Trek is in a coma. I feel that placing hope in a future season of anything with their name on it is a fool’s errand. They haven’t earned it. They have one show that hasn’t sucked hard. But it’s still not even close to the “New Trek” of the past. Honestly if lightning strikes and this season is decent it will be a mistake coming from this group. They would need to make at least 3 seasons of something in a row of more than 1 show that was was even half way decent to get me to come out of my hope coma.
LOL, of course it is. It’s going to be all things to all people — the greatest Star Trek season ever.
I am continuing to get worried that we are setting ourselves for a failure with all of this never ending hype from Matalas. He conveniently sort of tried to separate himself from Picard S2, but he was a core member of that crapfest. I can’t help to think that he’s got a bit of used car salesman approach to him…sorry, but his never ending hype and social media leaks are starting to get me worried that a lot of this may be well meaning BS.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I do think there’s some chance it may be overstuffed, depending on how seriously we take this “it’s also season 8 of DS9/VOY” pitch. That’s a lot of characters to shoehorn into 10 episodes.
That said, it also wouldn’t surprise me if the sole DS9 nexus is someone like O’Brien, who, after all, was part of Picard’s crew first and appeared in “All Good Things.” We already know that the VOY character will be Seven, whose role in the series arose organically; both she and Picard were ex-Borg!
As always, there’s only so much you can glean from the promotional interviews. Time will tell.
DS9 was “overstuffed” from their first episode. Seven successful seasons, with so many recurring characters and special guests. Hope Matalas could replicate DS9 success.
Have to agree with you on this one, too much hype. Saying a lot without saying anything. It has me worried.
All their shows have had this hype. Star Trek Discovery hypes up every season like this. Picard has. Lower Decks has. Strange New Worlds has. None have even come close to their hype. I get they have to get people to watch but it would be nice of the enthusiasm for their upcoming seasons were dialed back just a bit at least. Especially since by now the regular viewers are on to the act.
I don’t agree. Terry Matalas has been hyping up season three since April 5th of this year; when the cast for season 3 was announced which would include the TNG alumni, which by the way was a whole month before season 2 even finished airing.
That’s over 7 months of hype, and this show isn’t airing until Feb of next year.
I’ve honestly never seen a showrunner talk this much about a show so far in advance of it airing. I can’t even remember D&D talking about GOT this much during that year they took off to “perfect” the last season, even though it was the biggest show on TV at the time.
Besides the trailers a month ago where is the hype for Disco season 5? Where is the hype for SNW season 2?
It’s coming. When it comes we will get the same cliched stuff they have said before every season. ‘This is a great story’. We think we pulled all the stops.’ ‘Fans will be blown away’. Etc…
Well said. Yeah, Matalas’s level of info hype on this Trek season is more hype than for any of the previous Kurtzman shows to date.
Beverly reluctantly activates the EMH, thinking it would be a new model. Picardo EMH appears. Beverly facepalms, “not you again”. Picardo EMH says “I’m a doctor, not a plot device” then Beverly deactivates him and the story continues.
LOL good one.
So probably the villain we have seen is pissed at the federation/picard because they were left alone during the Dominion war, or their people some sort of collateral damage.
I am also guessing that the “wormhole” that is guarded by JuratiBorg won’t be mentioned or resolved…
I was wondering about that. We now know we’re skipping ahead a year and a half from the end of Season 2, so my guess is the wormhole will be gone. Maybe there’s a couple throwaway lines of dialogue between Seven and Picard or Seven and Raffi mentioning how it all wrapped up.
“I just felt like Picard season three needed to feel like it fit into this universe” … you might even say, that should have been the goal from the first season on :-D
Absolutely, it does now feel like they’re finally realising the error of their canon blundering ways.
Well, Terry didn’t have any say in the first two Seasons over how the show was run. That first episode of Season 2 felt right in so many ways…and then when the other writers took over, it all fell apart. I’m hoping a Season 3 under his guidance will be what Picard should have been all along.
I really hope this turns out well. Season 2 of Picard was such a wasted opportunity.
I think in time we’ll all look back, regardless of the quality of season three, and just be absolutely flummoxed by the creative decisions of Picard overall.
Season One was some of the bleakest storytelling in Star Trek‘s history; the mars attack and synth ban, a Starfleet that is xenophobic but also infiltrated by Romulans, suggested incest because EVIL, lawless outlaws with drug addictions and bloody, vengeful pasts, murder at every turn. I really don’t envy Aaron J. Waltke and the other writers of Prodigy who cannot get around this established canon and have to thread through these decisions…on a kids show. Waltke made comment on this in a recent interview and it was quite interesting how he referred to it all.
Then season two was a reset where if you thought about anything for too long the plot would all just untangle. Our established actors playing other characters for no real reason, the events of season one left largely unaddressed. A reset.
And season three sounds like it may have a bit of an identity crises too, as well as another reset. Most of the established characters form the shows past tossed to the side in favour for a “continuation of TNG“, but also very much “Picards‘ story”, but now also a DSN and VOY continuation.
I hope it’s good, but to be honest we know that 2 thirds of this show are seemingly meaningless, so it will be interesting when all the dust settles what the overall legacy will be. Besides confusion.
I was hoping as a gift Q would make Picard human again and not a robot. Also Picard didn’t save his nephew from burning to death in a fire. But he saved his astronaut ancestor. The time travel was a waste. What was Q’s point that Picard should be kind to himself and not blame himself for his mother’s death.
This exactly. I was hoping Picard did turn out to be human because he consciences was put into the human Picard of the alternate timeline but then someone pointed out to me that when Picard was in the coma, the machine he was hooked up too started going haywire because Picard was still an Android so that blew my theory out of the water.
More nostalgia-bait. That’s all Trek seems to be these days, bringing back legacy characters. It seems to be all fans want too. I think Discovery is terrible but it’s the only series pushing Trek forward.
That is the ONE thing I love about Discovery, finally a show going forward in a really daring way. I always give credit where credit due and hope to see other shows do it in the future. But unfortunately it still sucks as a show. :(
Picard at least tried to push Trek forward in the beginning but seasons 1 and 2 were a total failure writing-wise, so they’re just falling back on easy wins by bringing back legacy characters. It works for them because that seems to be all fans want to see judging from comments on this site. Maybe I’m just bitter having just watched and adored Star Wars Andor, something that takes a familiar era but gives us new perspectives with an almost entirely brand new cast of characters. I rolled my eyes when Prodigy introduced Okona, and Lower Decks adds nothing to Star Trek expect references to past Trek.
All of these orgasmic disscussions of what legacy characters should come back suggest to me a franchise that is stagnant or in decline.
TNG featured *no* legacy characters, save for a one-minute cameo by McCoy as a “passing of the torch,” for its first three years. When it finally brought in a legacy character, Sarek, it was a minor character, and done organically: a story about a diplomat in his twilight years trying to do a career-capstone deal. That we knew his backstory made his dementia all the more bittersweet. The two later appearances of TOS characters — Spock and Scotty — were done sparingly, respectfully, and in a way that honored the characters.
Quark’s short cameo in — what was it, “Gambit”? felt a lot more forgettable and forced, and thus akin to what people are braying about today. But as I say, it was short.
All of this “OMG, how can we shoehorn in Quark (again), how can we shoehorn in Kira and Dax and Janeway and Chakotay and Okona and Porthos” all suggest creative bankruptcy. Had these people written the TNG series bible, we’d have had Saavik and Spock’s kid as captain, a few cameo appearances from mommy (now an admiral) as CO, Bones’ granddaughter as CMO, and Will Decker IV as first officer. Sheesh.
I also wonder whether the abandonment of the TNG-era policy of accepting fan spec scripts has something to do with this creative bankruptcy. I’ve no doubt that many of those fan scripts were rubbish, but the occasional one made it through. That may have forestalled a lot of groupthink and brought in a fresh perspective to the series.
No it doesn’t mean just because people want to see legacy characters again, it means it’s a franchise on a ‘decline’. It’s just fanboys being fanboys lol. This is not a new thing obviously. When TNG first arrived, fans wanted to see Kirk and Spock appear on it from the start just as much as people want to see Sisko or Dax show up on one of these new shows today. We just didn’t have the internet back then with dozens of Trek sites and endless message boards discussing it. But it’s not a surprise some of the biggest ratings for TNG were the episodes where Spock and Scotty showed up.
And let me make this very very clear. All these legacy characters showing up are not being done for people on this board. No it’s NOT for us. Because people on this board is going to watch these shows NO MATTER WHAT! This is what gets muffled in these discussions.
Of course people here want to see their favorite characters return, but none of that is dependent on if they will continue to watch or not. In fact, for most of us we are JUST as excited for a completely brand new show or movie with new characters as we are with a show chock full of old characters. It doesn’t matter, it works both ways for hardcore fans. I’m sure you seen me talk about who I would LOVE to see show up again in a show. I’m sure you also read where I been BEGGING that they scrap the Kelvin movies and come up with completely new characters and settings for a new set of films as well. That’s what I prefer if we get another movie before 2035.
Why, because unlike the shows, we have never gotten a movie with new characters. They’ve always relied on legacy characters because obviously it’s easier to market to audiences. At least the majority of the shows actually have new crews on them. And even the shows that has brought back legacy characters like Picard or Janeway still had mostly new characters. That has never been the case with the films and why I’m more adamant about that.
But many of us actually want new characters, settings, time periods etc. Again, I have said more times than I can recall I WANT Star Trek to keep going forward because that guarantees less nostalgia, not more of it obviously. But same time people are human. There will always be TOS fans who want more TOS stuff. There will always be TNG fans who want more TNG stuff and so on. Producers knows this and will happily oblige as they been doing since 2009.
But most people here actually DO want new things or will watch it no matter what. The reason why there are more nostalgia bait today is mostly due to two things: Star Trek being behind a pay wall and convincing casual fans to pay for it. Most casual fans only pay if it’s something they know. Obviously not all of them, but it persuades some for sure. I can’t tell you how many posts I read on places like Reddit that people had no interest in Prodigy until they announced Kate Mulgrew was coming back to play Janeway. That’s what convinced people to even give the show a shot because it was labeled a kids show and that scared a lot of people off from the start. And the producers knew that and why she’s there in the first place.
But I guarantee you if the show just starred Murf roaming around the ship and everything he said was in subtitles I would’ve been watching every freaking week lol. That’s the difference. ;D
But it’s not just the fans going on about wanting to see legacy characters. The actual showrunners themselves seem obsessed with it! THAT’S what points to a franchise that’s stagnated. Lower Decks has nothing except references to past Trek, and even Prodigy is on that same road now. Picard S3 is a reunion with the old cast and no doubt tons of cameos from other characters. Strange New Worlds is The Enterprise, Pike, Spock etc.
Oh yeah that’s certainly true too. And of course that’s because most of the showrunners are obviously huge fans of the property themselves. Most seem to talk about how much they loved Star Trek and grew up watching it like us. Matalas career started by working on Star Trek with Voyager and Enterprise. And reading this interview, it made it obvious he wants next season to be as TNG as possible because that’s the show he adored watching. McMahan has made it clear, if he could bring back every legacy character back, he would.
But this has been going on since literally 2009. We’ve had nothing but old characters filling up shows and films. Discovery started with a new characters but then they attached the main character with Spock, the most ironic one around. But I knew this was where we were going once Pike and Spock was announced to be in the entire season of Discovery and Picard was returning in his own show. The door was swinging wide open at this point and very few people complained about it lol.
And then it was the fans who was begging for a Pike show beyond anything and of course the producers obliged.But then we learned it’s what Akiva Goldsman wanted himself and was pushing for it which probably why they ended up on Discovery. So yeah end of the day it’s what both fans and the producers seem to want to see these characters again and it’s been this way for the last 14 years.
Oh and it wasn’t Gambit that Quark appeared on TNG. It was the episode Firstborn. ;)
Well said. It also doesn’t help when you have legacy characters announcing they want their own show or have an idea of how to bring them bacl. A franchise that’s stagnated or in decline is exactly what all thie clamouring for legacy characters suggests.
There are some conclusions that can be drawn from the fact that they dip into the “legacy” well so much. One is that the audience for their shows is not really much beyond existing fans. These shows aren’t creating the new fans they were hoping for. They see the reaction the fans had to Riker and 7 returning. Most existing fans loved it. So that’s where they went. If their shows managed to grab larger swaths of ‘not already Trek fans’ I don’t think they would have felt the need to throw in all the ‘member berries they do. In some sense doing so does showcase a lack of originality on the part of the writers and producers.
I do agree with that to an extent. I don’t think any of these shows are creating a large swath of new fans. At least not the way TNG did back in the day where my own friends became Star Trek fans who weren’t before. I don’t know anyone watching these shows personally and that include a few old Star Trek fans I know. Sure, I’m guessing there are some obviously but the overwhelming majority are old fans. I have not seen a big explosion of new people discussing shows like Discovery, Picard or SNW online anywhere. Look at this board itself? The people who are here discussing these shows are 99% old fans and been watching at least since the 80s or 90s and many since the 60s and 70s.
Prodigy is a bit different. It’s aimed at new fans specifically but since the target audience are under 10 year olds, it’s hard to know how much it’s doing that.
So yeah a lot of it seems to be mostly old fans and why 3 shows are probably in the TNG era now since I’m guessing the majority of fans today grew up with that era of Star Trek. But that’s also for a very good reason, because Star Trek is now behind a pay wall in what is still a mostly smaller streaming service. It’s gaining more viewers but it’s still nowhere close to where the big boys are. So Star Trek is just not as accessible as before. Sure you can easily watch it, but you have to sign up and pay for it. You can’t just flip to a channel and casually watch it. So of course most will be existing fans.
And then add they are literally airing new Star Trek all year. Unless a new fan loves it that much out of the gate, I doubt most will watch every new show…but obviously we will. ;D
But as said, a lot of this probably has to do with Star Trek being behind a pay wall and it’s always easier to market what people know vs what they don’t. If it was on free on TV like the classic shows were it may be a little different now.
I think the pay wall aspect is a very good point. People are more likely to pay for Disney, Marvel & Star Wars. But Star Trek? That has always had a smaller audience. So what does P+ have to get casual viewers to pay? Not sure. I read somewhere that Yellowstone is one of their higher viewed properties, if not THE highest. And it has spawned spin offs. But the buzz for that is pretty minimal.
In the end, I don’t think any of these shows are generating new fans of any kind of significant level.
I think they must be to some reasonable extent since to be blunt die-off is a factor. So there are enough fans to bring in the revenue to justify making all this material, and our numbers must be getting topped up.
If you look at current TV and movie output in general, so much is driven by nostalgia and not so much rebooting but resurrecting old franchises with follow ups even decades after the original. I mean, heck, they’re even bringing back “Willow” as a Tv series! It’s all nostalgia and backward looking at present.
Oh for sure, it’s definitely not just a Trek thing, but entertainment in general. I wonder if the superhero over-saturation is to blame and studios feeling they need a hook or legacy franchise to pull people in and compete
Exactly! It’s not a ‘Star Trek’ thing obviously, it’s a Hollywood thing. And it’s been this way for decades by the way, not just the last few years. There used to be a time, believe it or not, Hollywood frowned on the idea of movie sequels. There used to be a feeling of why would you want to continue characters in another story? It used to seem lazy and repetitive and was rarely done until the 70s where that trend started to change big time. Today you can’t get even get a movie made over a certain budget unless there is the possibility of doing more of them or why bother making that movie?
Audiences like something familiar. It keeps them invested. I mean we can pretend we want something different but just having more Star Trek is obviously keeping with the familiar for nostalgic purposes. That’s why there are five new shows on now. And most here happily watch them all lol.
I say over and over again one thing: No franchises ever dies today because the belief is if something made money once, then it will make money again. Terminator is the perfect example. Fans haven’t been truly happy with that franchise since the second movie and yet they KEEP bringing it back because obviously it’s profitable even though the last three movies bombed. But we will still be getting more Terminator movies in the future just the same because there is an audience who will always want to return to that universe. Or they might let it stay out of sight for the next 10-20 years and reboot it (yet again) for a completely new audience. That’s how Hollywood rolls these days.
Technically we are going forward as we’re rightly continuing on into the 25th century. Unlike Discovery (until their time jump) and Strange New Worlds, which were/are needlessly going backwards again. To play it safe? Perhaps. But I want us to be introduced to new Starfleet members so we can possibly follow them. I thought a Captain Rios spinoff would have been great, until they dumped him harder than a dodgy warp core. Let’s hope we get something like this. A new crew, set in the 25th century.
Star Trek: A New Frontier
…and the members of that new crew shouldn’t be relatives of legacy characters, either. Please no more gimmicks like Demora Sulu or LaForge’s kids, or Naomi Wildman, or the Tom Paris-B’Elanna Torres kid.
I disagree on SNW. Unlike the first two TOS prequel years of Discovery, SNW has a clear idea of what it is and what it wants to be. In just 10 episodes I have a clearer understanding of who the SNW characters are than the ones on Discovery. There’s a sense of fun and humor to SNW that has been missing in Trek. Give me good Trek stories with good characters and I’m in.
I understand what you are saying. But personally I’d like to see something set some 20-30 years after TUC. That remains untouched territory.
Of course the big problem there is Secret Hideout. Who I promise you would screw it up if they tried. Not sure what can be done about that. We seem to be stuck with them.
It seems as if we’re finally going get some answers to the questions left open by DS9’s ending. I can’t wait to see, some 25 years later (almost 30), what has happened to Bajor and what was left of the Cardassian Union. Regarding the possible inclusion of any DS9 characters – their inclusion is likely going to be very “Nepenthe”-esque, meaning they will fit into the story of one of the primary characters but not require more than one episode.
I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment with hoping for any insight into Bajor, etc. To your point, they’ll probably just throw in a cameo token appearance from the DS9 cast. It will likely seem forced, and lack and and real impact on the overall narrative.
I (sorta) agree. Reign in your expectations, folks. I think it will be a fun event, but it won’t tie up all loose ends and be all things to all people.
You are possibly correct, however I am not expecting a big thing, and it really wouldn’t take more than a solid guest appearance and a few lines of dialogue to answer these questions.
I think so too. This is a TNG show. Not a DS9 or STV show. I feel like whatever mention is done there will be done just for ‘member berry purposes.
Sure, a TNG show with Miss Annika Hansen in it.
The one thing I’m not betting on is a visit from Sisko or an answer of what happened to the Emissary post joining the Prophets. I know Avery Brooks said he wasn’t interested in returning and honestly I can’t think of a satisfying way to resolve someone returning from being graduated to being a God.
Yeah I don’t see Sisko returning next season either. Besides the fact as said Brooks is probably not exactly begging to return one way or the other, I think a story like that needs to be told as its own story. It’s sort of like when fans was hoping Prime Kirk returned in the Kelvin movies. If you want to bring Kirk back, fine, but it should be something done in its own separate story. It would either just derail the real story that was being told or would just feel rushed in order to focus on the main story.
That’s why in TSFS was about bringing Spock back, it wasn’t also about trying to make peace with the Klingons. In other words, if you’re going to do something like that for such a big legacy character, then take your time and do it right.
Yep totally. The story of Sisco is so big you can’t just do it as a side story in a show that is literally named Picard. It needs it’s own movie or 10 ep run.
By all appearances, Avery Brooks appears to have retired from public life. Sisko’s story is too big to be part of Picard. Jean Luc always had an affection for the Bajoran people so a throwaway reference to Bajor becoming part of the Federation or a cameo by Ro or Kira wouldn’t surprise me but I’m not expecting it. DS9 is my favorite Trek series and I’d rather it just be left alone. It ended perfectly.
I’m hoping Picard season 3 just tells us a good story with a proper goodbye to the great TNG cast. This is there moment.
This is going to sound mean. But I hope Ro didn’t survive the war. By all accounts 99% of the Marquis should have been obliterated by the Jem’hadar. And I always felt like ever since she joined the Marquis in TNG it was kind of her fait to die in battle. I know she was always supposed to be the original Kira but that never happened so…
I have never held out hope at Sisko would make a surprise appearance. In my mind his story is done. Kira, Dax, Bashir, O’Brien (even though they’ve said it’s not O’Brien), even Quark or Garak … each of these characters could conceivably be involved in Worf’s life/story.
I’m excited to have so much of the TNG gang back together. But I’ll reserve my total support until I see the first episode. Unfortunately the writing staff for Picard have shown they are not equal to the task of writing a coherent narrative. Nor are they capable of penning dialogue that seems like it was written by adults. This by the way, is an affliction that hinders most current Trek. And it’s a shame, because the production value of all current Trek is through the roof. We’ve in a situation where we’ve got really slick looking shows that unfortunately lack any sense of maturity.
Sadly that is not limited to just the Picard show. That is true across all of Secret Hideout.
Maybe its better to reserve judgement until the third or fourth episode since the first episodes of both seasons were actually pretty good. I have watched The Star Gazer four times now. It’s a proper Star Trek/TNG episode. But they are saying season 3 is basically similar to that episode. Let’s hope so.
I’m so looking forward to this!!!
I’m excited by the prospects of this! The first two seasons were epic and I for one can not wait for the 3rd!
Unlike many of the repetitive posters here, I have totally enjoyed the current crop of Trek… and yes, that includes not just SNW but all of Discovery and all of Picard.
For the life of me, I can’t wrap my head around people who complain over and over and over again with the same post repeated and reworded but without adding anything new, as if saying “I hate it” is somehow cool. (Complain – post – rewrite – repost – repeat).
These current shows convey a fantastic love for Trek lore and history, with impressive writing and fine acting. The production values are some of the best on television. I look forward to each new episode.
To the producers:
As a viewer in my 60’s, I was a kid when TOS was first on the air and have been a fan most of my life. Keep up the good work and don’t let the trolls and negative comments dissuade you from continuing to build upon this ever expanding franchise.
Bravo and well done!
As opposed to people who uncritically swoon, “OMG! I looooove it! Bring back Jadzia Dax and Kira! Bring back Janeway! Bring back Neelix! Bring back Okona (barf)! Peanut Hamper, what a kewl name!”?
It’s not our problem you don’t like a tv show we like. No one is making you watch this stuff.
Its not just a “kewl” name. Its a mathematically perfect name.
Yes, the writing has been so impressive that they keep hitting the reset button on both Disco and Pic coincidentally I guess?
We need both Mile’s O’Brien and Reginald Barclay!!! Also Quark, who appeared on both TNG and Voyager and who’s been hinted at throughout Picard while also appearing in Lower Decks. Would be nice to also bring back Data, Geordi, and Worf’s friend Dr. Julian Bashier from DS9. And Yes, having Admiral Janeway appear for the first time in live-action since the last TNG movie “Nemisis” that she appeared in is also necessary, especially given her relationship with Seven of Nine. Both DS9 and Voyager have deep TNG roots with characters such as Worf, Seven of Nine, O’Brien, Bashier, Quark, Q, and Barclay.
I doubt they’ll bring in Barclay considering the actors controversial political views.
Barclay was an awful character and him not showing up not only makes sense but is of no loss. However, if there was the idea to bring the character back and it was nixed not because the idea was good (doubtful) but because the actor has political beliefs the producers don’t share that says a great deal about the producers. All negative.
God, this guy is so full of himself. They failed to properly continue TNG with the first two seasons. Please leave DS9 alone.
I think they purposefully did not try to continue TNG with the first two seasons. I’m not saying that season 3 will be successful but the intent seems to have changed.
They def did not try and continue it. That isn’t what Stewart wanted. He wanted the TNG version of Logan IIRC
The intent has changed because it was a failure.
That was probably partly it. But in reality this is what Matalas himself really wanted and pushed for it probably the day after he was hired to run the show sort of the way Akiva Goldsman was pushing for a Pike show the second he was hired to work on Discovery.
As someone mentioned to me on this board, the showrunners seem to be pushing for a return of these characters behind the scenes as much as fans are online and at conventions. And the truth is, probably nearly everyone wanted Picard to be a TNG revival show from the very beginning from the producers to the fans. It was mostly Stewart who was pushing against that and they finally convinced him to do it, so here we are.
SNW feels more like TNG than Picard. You got the hopeful optimistic future motif, and bright colors again. The trailer for this looks like Nemesis meets into Darkness. Like TNG in the JJ style but darker colors. With villain hellbent on revenge again, and more fire everything. I wish they’d stop trying to recapture Star Trek II. They don’t seem to have learned anything from the failure of the TNG films and the Kelvin Timeline. I guess they think lets double down on stupid. Couldn’t be worse Picard season 2 was horrible writing with a fine cast. When all else fails remake Wrath of Khan.
Yeah definitely agree about SNW and TNG. It basically cut from the same cloth, especially the way it does the A and B story line and as you said much more optimistic again.
The Picard season 3 trailer was a mixed bag for me. On one hand, it did feel great to see all the TNG characters again and you can tell the chemistry is still there with the cast. It was just nice to be on a starship again lol. But yeah, the villain wanting revenge story line YET again and everything feeling super dark is a big let down for me. Like many, I’m just soooo tired of it.
BUT that said, several people who has watched the season (and hated both seasons of Picard) is saying the trailer doesn’t do it justice and it is basically season 8 of TNG, at least more so than Picard has been. I just watched a video on YouTube yesterday from Trek YouTubers who are adamant people will love the season and they been trashing the show since it started. They gave both seasons of Picard 1 star but gave season three 5 stars. So fingers crossed I guess.
I’m guessing the main villain is connected to something Picard did off screen during the Dominion War.
That makes as much sense as anything else. The actress certainly isn’t from TNG or the previous movies or previous Picard seasons.
First thing I want to add is I’ve felt that if they wanted to tug on something from the TNG show there was always that Conspiracy thing they dropped after that one episode.
About this stuff… Secret Hideout has lost all their capital. I don’t believe anything that sounds positive from this group anymore. It would be foolish to after all they’ve done. This is the team that has finished last the last 6 years telling us “this year we will be more competitive” when they have in reality done nothing to give fans any reason think that. So ultimately my takeaway is disappointment that they are going to pull some DS9 characters onto their junk pile.
wtf just gave myself spatial anxiety. now Im freaked about a future freaking unreal thing that is too freakin real.