Alex Kurtzman Says Star Trek Announcements Coming Soon, Hints At Character-Focused Miniseries & Movies

After Discovery wraps up with its fifth season in 2024, the future of Star Trek TV is rather unclear. With Picard also wrapping up, Strange New Worlds is the only current live-action Trek expected to have a future. Now the man in charge of Trek for Paramount+ is dropping hints about what else is to come, including a potential move into different formats for Trek TV.

Kurtzman hints at character spin-off miniseries and movies

In an interview with SFX Magazine primarily about the third season of Star Trek: Picard, Alex Kurtzman reconfirmed that the series was always designed to run three seasons (which wraps up in just a month). However, he did indicate it is possible for storylines from the series to continue. The highlight of season three is the reintroduction of the cast from Star Trek: The Next Generation, and when specifically asked about the how actors have openly advocated carrying on in a movie, Kurtzman said:

We talk about that all the time. Is there a movie version? Doing a movie is different – it’s two hours right? So it’s different than doing 10. You know, anything is possible, truly.

Later in the interview, Kurtzman returned to the idea of carrying on these stories, suggesting they could do limited series focusing on individual characters:

By the way, even individual characters – I think we could absolutely continue to tell stories about individual characters that are set up on the show in other contexts. That’s the beauty of having a universe now is that, in a perfect world, we’re not just doing seasons of television, we’re doing event series [miniseries], we’re doing single events that could be two, three hours long [TV movies]. I think that we are now at a place where that’s really possible.

Just yesterday we reported how Picard showrunner Terry Matalas and many of the stars of the show are hoping to carry on after season 3 in a new show he calls “Star Trek: Legacy.”  A more limited character-focused project could be seen as an alternate way to carry on some of the storylines. But even in that case, they could still end up setting up a larger series in the same way Short Treks episodes featuring the USS Enterprise crew from Discovery set up Strange New Worlds.

Alex Kurtzman (CBS Studios)

Lots of plans… still including Section 31

The model of creating limited series based on individual characters is something Disney has with both the Star Wars and Marvel franchises for their original Disney+ series. For Star Trek, the idea of doing character-focused “event series” or movies need not just apply to characters that have appeared in Picard. As the interview wrapped up Kurtzman was pressed on specifics, including a live-action project with Kate Mulgrew as Janeway, something which came up when Kurtzman and Mulgrew appeared together at NYCC 2022. The executive producer wouldn’t get into detail, but he offered this general assurance about the future of the franchise:

[W]e have plans for new things… there’s quite a few plans, and you’ll hear about them soon. We will continue to expand the Star Trek universe, absolutely.

The one specific he did confirm was regarding the Michelle Yeoh project first announced back in 2019:

I can tell you that we’re still very excited about Section 31. And that’s all I will say.

Putting these pieces together, it’s possible the Michelle Yeoh Section 31 project is one of those individual character stories Kurtzman thinks could work as a more limited “event” series or movie for Paramount+. This would certainly be easier to work into her schedule, which is likely to get a lot busier since her Academy Award win. But the door also sounds open for more of these kinds of projects. Kurtzman has also talked about a Starfleet Academy series, so there is still potential for more ongoing shows as well.

As for when this “soon” announcement is coming, April 5th is First Contact Day, which seems a good time to reveal plans for Trek’s future.

There is much more from Kurtzman in the April issue of SFX Magazine.

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Way cool. Excited to see what is next.

I’ve gotta say, after taking a peek in Daystrom Station, my feelings about a Section 31 series have brightened a little. Not crazy about the “Emperor” Georgiou character, but keep Terry Matalas involved and I may stay involved, too.

Interested to see what’s coming down the pike!

Yeah me too. Still not crazy about Space Hitler leading the show, but I’ll give it a chance regardless. And if the show took place in the 25th century, imagine all the legacy characters who can pop around in it or co-star with her!

Terry Matalas is a must IMO, especially if they do the 25th century spin off.

I like him, he gets everything that was awesome about the TOS movie era and can apply it to other eras. Fantastic! It feels final frontier.
Just fix the back of the Titan bridge please.

What’s wrong with the back of the Titan bridge? I know the whole thing is too dark, but the design and layout is great.

From the production side it looks horrid. 80% of your shots are the Captain face forward, you can’t put the helm/nav in the scene because it’s so far forward and then what is behind him.. a door with a conference room. Could you get any less visually stimulating?
From the functional side every inch on the bridge should count that you wouldn’t leave the whole back wall for nothing. The whole point of the chair in the middle is so the Captain can turn around and interact with as many crew members as possible. Now he can turn around and interact with…. an empty board room table?!?
In contrast SNW TOS bridge. You get awesome shots of the crew in action, the Captain can swivel around and talk to Uhura. When the Captain is just doing a Captain’s Log you’ve got crew and panels in the background. It looks great and is functional.
I feel for the marketers.
Look even at the picture above. Are they in combat or at a Star Trek conventional panel? At least marketing is trying by having the shots go really wide to throw in some computer panels. They must beg to go work on SNW where that shot would be panels blinking red alert with lots of telemetry, Number One at nav, Ortega at helm, the Captain talking to Spock while Uhura with everything just screaming stimulation and action.
But even SNW… what the heck, why did you go from awesome multicolored displays with the Big E in Dis (as an engineer different colors are more functional, they can communicate information) to monochrome displays in SNW?
I also don’t like the red phasers… the blue was way better.
I figure if I keep fighting for it on here, someone from marketing will be able to use it to fix it and get us a better movie era Titan bridge (TWOK, guess what’s behind Kirk, cool displays and Meyer always had some crewmate looking at them).
It’s kind of sad when you see these beautiful colorful displays the 80s Trek team prob would have died to have, but they are way over on the side

I’m sure the Shenzhou was laid out a bit like that to the extent I’m wondering if some of the Titan’s bridge set is reclaimed from it.

Matalas is too much of a fanboy. The last thing we need is for Trek to devolve into those awful Star Trek fan films. 🤮 Remember how Gene Roddenberry almost killed Trek with that boring movie? It took Nicholas Meyer to save Trek.

That “boring movie” that “almost killed” Trek is exactly what I want to see! TWOK was a great movie, as a one-off, but it became the blueprint for almost every Trek ovie and that was a mistake! I wish every other movie was to rip off TMP instead of TWOK.

As for Matalas: he does a lot of Nick Meyer and not so much Roddenberry-ish things so I simply don’t get your point…

Oh wow. Is today Opposite Day? 😀

Quite frankly Nick Meyer did more 60s Roddenberry-ish things than the 80s Roddenbery which is why Meyer rocked. Matalas is bring TNG Trek to life… finally.

That “boring” movie turned me into a lifelong fan of Star Trek.

It also banned Roddenberry from the movie franchise for the rest of his life. Always remember that.

That’s good, given his plans for a followup were utterly appalling. Ideally his hands-on writing involvement with Trek would have forever ended very early on TMP — just taking partial story credit along with Foster for IN THY IMAGE.

Are you going to be OK? Or just take your frustration out everywhere? I get it, but it’s just a TV show. They all come and go.

I’ve only seen one fan film before, Gods and Monsters. I actually thought it was pretty good and it was nice to see Nichelle Nichols play Uhura again. I’m sure someone will correct me, but I think that was the last time she played the role.

I’d take any of the fan films over shows like Discovery any day. Production value (obviously) aside, their stories are way better. James Cawley got veterans like DC Fontana to write some of them in part. Or at leat contribute. They were made out of love and it showed. What I like about SNW and PRO is it seems like it has the love there but also the coorporate $$$ to back it up.

I’ve seen bits and pieces of other fan films, but I’ve only watched that one the whole way through, but I really enjoyed it and thought Tim Russ did a great job directing it. And it’s impressive for the little money they made with it not to mention all the Trek actors who did it. I mainly watched it because of Nichelle Nichols and thought about watching it again after she died. I still might.

As for Discovery, yeah it has a ton of money and great production values but the stories simply blows. This show is four seasons old and it’s currently my least favorite show in the franchise. Picard was my originally least favorite but it moved up a notch this season lol. Maybe season 5 will be great and make me eat my words. I hope so, I want it to go out with a bang and will be the first to say so. But it’s sad I don’t have any excitement for it at all. At this point, I’m just watching due to being a fan and just waiting for it to end. Just being honest!

But I hope the show finally has one great season before it leaves.

The thing that a lot of modern story tellers don’t get is that despite it’s setting, Trek has never been a series that needed huge effects or a huge budget. Sure we welcome it, but never at the cost of the story. The best eps of TNG for example were bottle eps. I’ll take In a Pale Moon Light of DS9 over any of the space battle eps of DS9 any day of the week. I too was impressed with what fan fic did with what little money they had but truth is once the sets were built and such the true costs were in filming and paying the actors and some cgi here and there.

I need my BALANCE OF TERROR and DOOMSDAY MACHINE as much as PALE MOONLIGHT and the best S31 shows, but honestly, I don’t think it is cost of vfx as much as volume of them. Cut the VFX shot count by 80% and tell the story without cutting outside the ship every two seconds. Spend the money for good visuals, not for 1000s of mediocre to crap ones.

I would rather watch the worst episode of Discovery on a loop as my only entertainment than watch 2 minutes of the best fan film. And I don’t like Discovery.

I can see the appeal for people who just want that goofy fix but it’s not real entertainment.

Did you watch the Avalon one with the Zombies? Fucking epic

Oh yeah, a Star Trek fan film with zombies, it sounds like it has all the hallmarks of what everyone says makes great Trek: hope, positivity, science, discovery, and an aspirational meritocracy.

Sounds delightful.

LOL, yeah, my thoughts exactly

I would rather watch the worst episode of Discovery on a loop as my only entertainment than watch 2 minutes of the best fan film.

Yeah, every fan film I have ever seen has been cringe-worthy, and many make me embarrassed to be a Star Trek fan.

Everything I have seen by Cawley and the other fan productions are embarrassingly unwatchable and make me cringe at times. They are typical so bad that it takes me out of the ep and I can’t suspend my disbelief to get into it.

Apologies I alway get like this when my crypto goes up. 😁

As long as you’re OK.

I will be when I’m back in Thailand.

Won’t lie, but I wish I was going too lol. Been a crazy few weeks. Enjoy dude.


That “boring” movie is THE favorite for many fans, including me.

It’s a great movie to help people fall asleep 💤. That’s the nicest thing I can say about it.

I love TMP, and the new version increases that love.

After the years of non-Trek fans like JJ Abrams making films and not knowing what the hell they were doing, I welcome I little fanboy input. I get people like Nicholas Meyer weren’t fans either but at least he respected things like story over special effects which modern Trek does not tend to do.

Meyer went back and did his research to the point he understood Trek better than Roddenbery did at the time. Horatio Hornblower in space. Bingo.

(tear running down my cheek) I love all the fan films…..

Yeah. How dare he make Star Trek that fans like? What a piece of garbage. Making Star Trek that shows an absolute love for Star Trek.

This nasty attitude towards DSC and Georgiou is tiresome. You tell me not everyone is about bias, yet here you using childish nicknames like a brat at recess… truly incomprehensible.

LOL, wait, you’re the same guy who just a day ago kept talking about slapping an elderly actor while insulting him multiple times on this board, correct? And after people kept telling you to stop but you kept on doing it anyway until a mod jumped in and gave you a warning over it.

But you’re very very upset over me calling a fictional character Space Hitler and saying a TV show I don’t like sucks? Gotta love to the internet. And the incomprehensible hypocrisy.

If it makes you feel any better I promise never to threaten to slap her…but the name stays!

And I don’t think you understand what bias means.

It happens every time a woman has a lead in a sci-fi show or movie. The fandom just can’t handle women for some reason. I wonder why. I prefer women leads. Women are just more interesting to me.

I totally agree that for many fans doing the Space Hitler thing that it comes out of their unconscious bias against female leads.. If Giorgiou were a male character, you will not see this middle school-level, immature name calling, and I can prove this through the following two points;

Khan, a male character in Trek, has similar levels of blood and death on his hands, yet he is revered and we never hear anyone calling him Immature, derogatory name-calling terms like Space Hitler.
I can guarantee you that 9 times out of 10 on this site, the same fans who always do the Space Hitler immature BS for Giorgiou are the same fans who are always tearing down Michael Burnham as a character as well. And what do these two characters have in common? We’ll, obviously they are both female lead characters.
Cha-Ching! It is what it is: Unconscious Bias

Yes, Khan is literally the Hitler of WW3 and the fans worship him. Those losers have been bad mouthing Discovery ever since they heard that the show was going to have a female lead. It’s pathetic and one of the reasons I distance myself from the fandom.

Yes, Khan is literally the Hitler of WW3 and the fans worship him. Those losers have been bad mouthing Discovery ever since they heard that the show was going to have a female lead.

Well said!

Replace “DSC and Georgiou” with “Shatner” and I suspect that your comment reflects the same frustration a number of people were feeling yesterday.

People use the name Space Hitler because the character is well… evil. and people don’t like the idea of a star trek series following someone whose well.. unrepeantedly evil

lol. As if I didn’t understand the moniker. Childish reductiveness.


And that faulty analogy is where you and others show your complete ignorance of history. Hitler created evil himself. Georgiou was brought up in an imperial regime where she simply took on the role as the next emperor — she didn’t create evil herself (unlike Adolf Hitler)— she was brought up in an evil system and basically didn’t know any better until she learned of a better way from her interaction with characters in the prime universe.

So anyone using the term Space Hitler is simply highlighting for everyone how ignorant they are a basic history. It’s a middle school level, immature name that is not even based on a credible analogy.

I use Adolf for Short. 👍

Yeah a horrible evii and disgusting character. I wish she would fall into a star.

Well that definitely saves time lol.

100% SPOT-ON !!!

And yet she saved the Universe from Control because Burnham was in it, right?

Yeah she loves Burnham, no doubt about that.

What even is Control? Like can someone explain that nonsense to me?

Some sort of Borg Nano-machines Empire Prototype very roughly speaking

Evil A.I. trope.

It was an A.I. threat assessment program. Seek out threats to the Federation. Went rogue when it realized organic life is always unpredictable and a threat so to get order and peace in the universe it is easier to just exterminate organic life.

Exactly! It’s weird how people will even come up with criticisms of DSC where the show doesn’t deserve it even? I mean I understood what Control was in the first episode where it was brought up?


It was explained rather well I thought on screen as an AI program of Section 31 that got out of control, became self-aware, and went rogue against all life. Not dissimilar to the Doomsday Machine overall concept.

What’s not clear about that?

Control was basically just another Terminator rip off, ala Skynet. That’s basically it. I thought they were going to do something more interesting with it, but it went to the same tired AI stuff we gotten for the last 40 years.

Matalas is a def must. At the very least he needs to run everything TNG live action era if not everything period.

Yes definitely. He should at least be in charge of any 25th century shows.

Can you please tell me why Mirror Georgiou gets called “Space Hitler” and Dukat, or even Garak, don’t.

Nobody called L’Rell Space Hitler either. The lack of total genocide and their habit of not eating their slave people might play a role. Granted, Hitler didn’t do that either, so it’s more like Space Lecter in that regard. In any case, it’s a character beyond redemption. That the series did it anyway, and in the clumsiest and most undeserved way possible, just because the makers wanted their cool and sexy femme fatale, speaks volumes about the quality of writing of this show.


That’s a faulty analogy where you and others show your complete ignorance of history. Hitler created evil himself. Georgiou was brought up in an imperial regime where she simply took on the role as the next emperor — she didn’t create evil herself (unlike Adolf Hitler)— she was brought up in an evil system and basically didn’t know any better until she learned of a better way from her interaction with characters in the prime universe. 

So anyone using the term Space Hitler is simply highlighting for everyone how ignorant they are a basic history. It’s a middle school level, immature name that is not even based on a credible analogy.

I don’t personally call her character that, But I understand why she gets this moniker while others don’t, purely according to the gravity of her atrocities.

I don’t remember, did she ever show remorse about the things she did, after she was taken out said evil system and the compassion she experienced by the Disco-crew? Aside from her personal relationship with Burnham I mean. The defense of your own upbringing can only get you so far.

Space Lecter…I like that too! 👍

But Adolf works better for me.

I agree Gul Dukat was a Space Hitler too but L’Rell wasn’t. They weren’t trying to exterminate the Federation. The irony is it was Starfleet who tried to exterminate them at the end of the war.

And surprise, surprise who did they give that job to? Adolf herself! 😂🙄

And she had zero qualms to do it… that’s why they gave her the job lol.
It’s hilarious people trying to defend Adolf. It’s as delusional as people trying to defend Dukat back in the day. 😉

Yes, the Klingons were many things, mostly conquerors, but they weren’t trying to eradicate people. But I’m not defending the Klingons or LRell lol. It’s all bad people.

ALL BAD!!!!!!!!

But I don’t get the Georgiou thing at all. This is the same disgusting woman who bragged to Leland about bombing the Talosians out of existence in the MU, but I guess we’re suppose to feel for her for some reason? Um, OK. If someone can tell me why, I’m willing to listen lol.

But for me, people like Gul Dukat and Georgiou are just despicable people. I understand it’s just entertainment and everyone has the right to like who they want. None of this matters at the end of the day. But I’m sorry, just like I newer understood why anyone would defend the original Space Hitler, Gul Dukat, I’m just as much at a lost with Georgiou too? I’m sorry, sue me.

And yes, excellent point about Georgiou having no ill will about blowing up Qo’nos either. This woman is beyond shameful.

I never understood it either and I loved Dukat too. I think people overlooked Dukat a lot at the time because they were hoping for a redemption story of some kind. That Dukat would show how much he turned around and would be the guy fighting with Bajor to defend against the Dominion or something.

Only the opposite happened. 😂🙄

Dukat is awful but I still think Adolf is much worse. Dukat never ate any of his Bajorans workers as a meal.

Adolf makes Putin look civil. I don’t think that guy has eaten anybody either and he’s done some pretty heinous things too.

Yes I agree. I think a lot of people at the time thought they were building a redemption arc for Dukat and so it was easier to defend him. But the writers instead took a left turn and made him even more evil. It’s kind of funny because that’s what they did with Peanut Hamper lol. Everyone thought when we saw her again they were going to show she learned what she did was wrong and be the savior but instead they double down and a lot of people hated that episode because of it.

And I’m not comparing Peanut Hamper to fucking Georgiou. She’s not a Space Hitler….yet. ;)

And look, we all know Georgiou will probably get some redemption arc. She was already getting it in the last episode, but it was so tiny, I don’t think it really changed anyone’s mind who hated her before. Certainly not here lol. But yes, if the Section 31 show happens, then I’m guessing they will make her more tolerable. Fine.

But that is still not going to erase all the disgusting and evil things she did. Yeah lots of villains get redemption arcs. Most of the time they end up dead either way. For some, that’s really the only way they will ever accept her, to really pay for her crimes like Dukat and every other genocidal A-hole usually pays in Star Trek.

That was also completely overlooked and and brushed aside just as much as Georgiou’s crimes. The entire Federation Council and Sarek should be in prison for attempted war crimes. But the crew saved the day, so iit was no biggie for the Discovery writers, lol.

Definitely! Another reason I think Discovery sucks, having Starfleet create genocide to win a war??? WTF? 🙄

They are supposed to be better than this. And then sending in the genocide maker to do it for you just made them lose any moral upstanding after that.

I will say it’s the one time I actually cared for Burnham and for once making the right call.

Because people don’t like Georgiou. It’s petty childishness. Yet, i’ll be the one banned for calling it out lol. People just don’t like being called to task.

Because people don’t like Georgiou. It’s petty childishness,

Yep — plus the historical analogy to Hitler is nonsensical as well. Using that term is ignorant, immature and moronic. It’s like some fans have never mentally checked out of middle school.

You can add Khan to that list — a mass butcher who is beloved by fans.

All of those characters are male (subconscious bias rears its ugly head), and they were also on a Trek series that fans generally liked. Hence they all get a free pass, while the middle school-level, immature name-calling of Space Hitler for Michelle Yeoh‘s character in DSC continues unabated.

Bro people used to call Dukat Space Hitler all the time! What are you talking about?? I used to call him that on Trekweb when that site was a thing. 😎

The entire Cardassian/Bajoran occupation is based around WW 2 and the Nazis. Am I wrong on that? And I love the Cardassians but yeah they were total Nazis lol. That’s why they were so interesting.

The difference between Dukat and MU Georgiou is that people recognized Dukat as evil on the show. Dukat tried to argue he wasn’t Hitler basically because he wasn’t trying to exterminate the Bajorans like Adolf was doing in the Mirror Universe. But in reality he would’ve exterminated all of them IF he had to which he basically admitted. And that’s what made him evil in the end.

Bro I used to argue the same thing on Trekweb but people really loved Dukat at the time and fought against it all the time. It’s history repeating itself. 😂

But Gul Dukat was an awesome character with nuance and who I loved too. MU Georgiou is a walking cartoon. That’s also why DS9 is a great show and Discovery is a total embarrassment. 🙄

It’s hilarious, you’re right, it really is history repeating itself. That’s an excellent point. I remember aalll the same excuses fans would try to give Gul Dukat and somehow overstep the fact he was overseeing genocide for decades. It’s bonkers but also sad. Very very fucking sad.

And I get it, when fans like a character, they want to defend them. People defended Darth Vader for decades too lol. I’m sorry, I don’t care, these people are responsible for horrific things. You can certainly defend it and use as many excuses as possible, but just as a reminder there were hundreds of actual Nazis who were sentenced to war crimes and their defense was they were just following orders and that didn’t shelter any of them.

So when you’re the one giving the orders, no you’re a genocidal asshole who deserves to be thrown in the deepest darkest hole for the rest of your life and for your victims to spit on you every day of your existence and that’s getting off easy. And at least Dukat got his at the end. Georgiou should get hers too. Just because she now no longer want to eat Kelpians shouldn’t give this woman some kind of out.

And for the record, I LOVED Dukat as a character as well, but I never excused the horrific things he did. But he was a great character but the writers themselves admitted he was TOO good of a character lol. They, along with Marc Alaimo, the actor, made him too charismatic and personable. So they had to make it clear in the end he was evil as they did in ‘Waltz’ . Yes, not mustache twirling evil, the guy did care about people. That still doesn’t erase all the things he did.

Now I’ll be fair, if you want to argue why she’s not reeeeaaaally evil, that’s fine, its why we have message boards.I get it. And everyone is entitled to their opinions. And if you truly think she shouldn’t be called Space Hitler, yeah, understandable. But she’s been called that for five years now and that’s never going away. Certainly not by me.

Although it’s funny, until now I didn’t realize my glib comment calling her Space Hitler started this entire debate. So, it’s cool when people can debate these things as long as everyone is civil and not losing their shit over it. That’s why I come here. :)

But don’t blame me this time for getting things off topic lol. I was keeping to the topic until now.

I see no one has responded to this exchange at all lol. Yes people, Georgiou is not the first genocidal maniac in Star Trek to be called Space Hitler by fans, including me, shocking, I know. ;)

I hope this at least prove to people who seems to think people have it out for this one character only when this has been kind of a thing for any mass murdering psycho in Star Trek fans loath. Stop looking to be offended all the time, people are just expressing themselves and yes, it’s just fiction. Yes you can still totally totally disagree with it, but stop being so triggered by it lol. Jesus. Georgiou will be called this for probably the next 20 years by some fans as I literally proven with Gul Dukat has been. Those are the breaks. ;)

It’s hilarious isn’t it man? 😂😆

So much uproar over calling this evil chick Hitler and it’s apparently just because she’s a woooooomaaan! So we’re in the wrong for pointing out she’s a mass murdering dictator who eats people, but only because we hate women. I’m surprised we’re not cancelled over it yet? 😭

Somebody tried to pull a whataboutism to prove Georgiou is the only character whose been singled out for being a horrible person. One link later and total crickets ever since! 😉

I’m still shocked no one on this board never heard Dukat being called that name before? Maybe it’s just a lot of youngins around here and this was over 20 years ago now (feeling old lol). Moreso because people actually did like Dukat but others like us still recognized he was a POS at the end of the day.

Adolf just happens to be an even worse POS but still two peas in a pod! 👍

Anyway this was fun! 🙃

I went and did some snooping and found this image someone posted of Dukat on another Reddit page:

Pirceless. But yeah, that’s right, it’s only poor little misunderstood Georgiou fans have unfairly targeted and associated with other genocidal maniacs. How dare they??? Yep only her if you just been watching Star Trek since 2018 I guess. (sigh)

And no, it wasn’t 20 years ago. They have been calling Dukat Space Hitler up to today, that’s the bigger irony. This guy has been called that for literally 30 years now lol. It’s just not as rampant as when the show was on.

And actually what’s funny and I know some people will take this very badly (but I don’t care), there has been a lot of Dukat/Trump memes that has taken over since 2016, to keep it relevant lol. There is even a ‘Make Cardassia Great Again’ Twitter page where someone takes all of Trump’s 153,000 tweets but substitute them for President Dukat tweets in the Star Trek universe. Dude, it’s hilarious if you never read it. I don’t know if it’s still active since Trump got the boot off of Twitter though.

And no, I’m not comparing Gul Dukat to Trump…I have way more respect for Dukat actually. Just teasing…sort of.

So there has been sort of a trade off in the last few years I guess and maybe why we see less Hitler comparisons like you would’ve a decade ago.

Oh no, don’t get it twisted, Gul Dukat is absolutely Space Hitler! TG1701 has already said it for me, but it was no doubt Dukat was as evil as MU Georgiou.

And yes, people called the guy Space Hitler too lol. Many many many times. Here is a thread from Reddit four years ago discussing it. I remember this thread because I participated in it and if you read that thread, I along with 99% of the comments agreed the guy was not just Space Hitler but Space many things lol. And no one ever got triggered over it lol. Have a look:

The difference was Dukat didn’t run Cardassia, he was basically an underling at the end of the day. Georgiou’s title however was Emperor. She was at the top of the food chain…and she made that point very clear lol. So he didn’t get that title as much for that reason but yeah he was Space Hitler for sure.

But ironically because Dukat wasn’t the main person in charge, it’s why a lot of his apologist supporters defended him just like people try to defend MU Georgiou. He wasn’t reeeeaaally evil, he was just ‘following orders’. And that’s their right to argue. They don’t argue it so much anymore lol, but yeah the first few years many people argued he was just ‘misunderstood’. But I never bought those arguments with Dukat at the time and I certainly don’t buy it with Gergiou lol. These are both evil horrible people. The difference being they wrote Dukat in a way where he came off empathetic and charming like Khan was, but Georgiou was written like a caricature and horribly written one at that so she gets it worse for it. And being the one on top and ruling over so many planets makes her crimes looks far worse than Dukat’s as well. He slaughtered one planet. She slaughtered hundreds.

And no one tried to give Gul Dukat his own show. (sigh)

So I hope that clears things up! :)


Thank you! Maybe people just wasn’t on a lot of message boards back then but Dukat was called either a Space Hitler or a Space Nazi constantly. And yeah some people would get triggered over it too. 😂

Yep people made excuses for him like they are doing Adolf and it’s weird to me too. Dukat was a cool character for sure but the guy still massacred a planet. You can still like a character but don’t make excuses for what they did either. Loved Dukat a huge reason I loved the show. But I couldn’t wait to see this guy killed or behind bars by the end of the show. Especially after what he did to Dax! 🤬

But I’m sure I thought Dukat was a horrible dude because deep down I secretly hated men and not because he was a genocidal murdering maniac trying to take over the Alpha Quadrant! It was definitely because all men suck! 😉

It’s bizarre. These people are mass murdering dictators. And even if you admired the guy, who in their right mind has ever argued Dukat should be working as a Starfleet intelligence officer? 🙄

That’s the real problem. That would be insane and yet we have Adolf, an even bigger maniac, now behind a cushy Starfleet desk with access to probably a prototype Genesis device, a time travel suit and a tribble. That’s all she needs to conquer the Prime universe. I never questioned her ingenuity.

I been pretty positive with Kurtzman Trek the last year (it’s true…SNW, PIC S3 and LDS has been awesome), but Discovery is just a bad show and a reminder how bad it all started. All the ridiculous things they did with Georgiou is proof of that.

Not a surprise why less people watched it every season.

Exactly! Many people love Dukat. Many people love Khan. Many people love the Borg Queen. But most people can still admit these are horrible people who has done horrible horrible things as well. Yeah, people think Khan was cool, but no one was crying when the maniac got blown at the end of TWOK either. Everyone was crying for Spock, I don’t remember any glowing eulogies for Khan because everyone seem to think he deserved it lol.

Same for Dukat. I remember thinking ‘YES’, the guy has finally met his fate in the most painful way possible. I still missed him though. :(

Every time the Borg Queen dies, I always thought ‘yeeeaah, that’s about right’. Never excused her quest of trying to assimilate the galaxy as just being misunderstood. But the Borg Queen is like Loki these days, you can’t kill her off no matter how many times you try lol. I’m 99% convinced she’s going to show up at the end of this season of Picard. helping the Changelings before she tries to assimilate them next. ;)

But it’s the weirdest mindset I’ve seen. You can certainly love a character even if others hate them. No one has said otherwise. It’s when you start making excuses for them for killing millions or billions of people is when you lost the plot IMO. And this nutjob has probably more done damage than Dulkat, the Borg Queen and Khan combined (well the Borg really gets around, so we’ll call that one a tie). Does she pay for any of it? Naah, she gets invited to dinners with the crew and plays haiku with them or watch a movie together. (sigh)

And no one would trust this psycho in ANY intelligence agency. Yeah S31 is off the books, but until Discovery, S31 were made of ex-Starfleet and Federation citizens. Not utter whackos who doesn’t even believe in your mission statement. Same could be said for Khan in STID but it’s been said enough. ;)

And it’s funny you mention Dax, because I remember even AFTER Waltz, there were people still rooting for Dukat. It wasn’t until he killed Dax that even his most hardcore supporters finally said, ‘wow, this guy might actually be bad after all.’ Yeah the tides definitely changed after that. But nothing before then did it for them? It wasn’t raping Bajor for 20 years? Or siding with the Dominion? Or taking over DS9? Or trying to kill your entire Pah Wraith cult in a suicide pact? No, killing Dax was the turnaround for some. I guess Georgiou had to eat Saru for others to finally be convinced.

Anyway always fun talking to you bro! These boards are insane and I love it Never dull around this place.🤣🤣🤣

Discovery always make my head hurt because I always want to bang a wall after discussing it. So taking a break! But might come back later. If not, take it easy!

LOL, you too!

Sorry you mentioned Garek too. I’ll be honest, I’ve never heard anyone call him that like Dukat or Georgiou, but people really love Garek lol. But yeah that guy did horrible things too. Dude, your’e not going to get any arguments out of me about it.

But that’s also why I loved DS9, they tried to put characters in the grey as much as possible and made it easier to sympathize with some truly awful people lol. Damar was just as much of an A-hole and responsible for genocide as Dukat was and should’ve faced war crimes IMO. But yet they turned him into a hero in the end. And I liked Damar too so I want to make it clear it has nothing to do with my personal feelings over these characters, I just can’t overlook their vile actions either.

I would be very surprised if they had the budget for Michelle Yeoh after her Oscar win.



alex should just let terry make all the decisions now

God no.

God yes!

God doesn’t exist thankfully.

What does God need with a streaming service?

…to watch on his starship!


I will at least say for the spin off show. And I think Kurtzman has let all the show runners make their own decisions, that’s why all the shows have been so good lately…minus Discovery.

If it wasn’t for the huge success of Discovery there wouldn’t be spin offs. Discovery is the best btw. Also SNW is pretty dull.

Enjoy your DIS Blu Rays dude.

I don’t buy physical media.

I thought you would make an exception for Discovery lol.

I hope you’re happy with the possibility that your viewing choices can be edited by others at any time going forward. For me, I don’t want to hear SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER with the F-bombs removed.

I have great visual memory, no need to watch it twice.

So I guess that means after having sex one time, you don’t need to try talking anybody into it a second time, because of your great visual memory.

At least I did it more that you.

Someone out there must, at least one person. Just not anybody I want to know.

LOL and I’m the mean one? ;D

I’m not a fan of DSC, but still can’t grasp the hatred people have for it. If it’s not for you, just move on and stop talking about it, let other people enjoy it. But anytime any a Trek they like gets brought up, they have to toss out little snide insults at Discovery.

It show how small minded they are.

Small minded. LOL. A baby cried and blew up the Federation. We should all be so small minded!

Lol you tell him my friend!

Just when you think a show couldn’t do anything more stupid, Discovery wants you to hold their synthehol.

Yes I’m sure Discovery is the only show fans online has expressed not liking lol.

And I don’t hate the show, but it’s been truly bad, especially the last season.

Gotta slip in one more insult, I see.

I don’t need to slip in anything, I been saying season 4 sucked for a whole year now. You been responding to me HOW long now?

I don’t understand how people can still be upset when people are just honest about a TV show? Do you see me upset whenever someone says SNW, PIC or LDS suck? Ever?

“I’ve been saying season 4 sucked for a whole year now”

Do you hear that? It’s the sound of the point flying right over your head

No, it’s a message board, that’s the point.

Seriously, this is what we do here lol.

Do you hear that? It’s the sound of the point flying right over your head

LOL, well done!

Does it sound like a crying Kelpian kid? 🙄

Gotta slip in one more insult, I see.

Yeah exactly, and not only that, it’s hard to really respect anyone who tries to have it both ways, while on the one hand insisting the show is just awful, while on the other hand insisting they don’t hate the show.

Even though I disagree with them, I still have a lot more respect for the fans who admit they hate DSC and don’t try to hide behind BS platitudes suggesting they don’t. At least they have the courage to be honest and admit their true thoughts on DSC — and I respect those fans as adults.

So bad it got renewed right? Don’t you get tired being wrong all the time?

What are you talking about?? It got cancelled man. That was the one thing I was right about lol. And I’m not happy it got cancelled, I’m just not surprised by it.

Most shows go to 5 seasons these days. This isn’t the 90’s. Most actor contacts are about 5 years also. Coincidence? It just cost effective to end them in 5 years.

Low budget SNW has about 2 more seasons after they film the 3rd season. Discovery had a great run and it’s going to end in style. Not like TNG that was basically on life support after season 5.

The irony is that’s what I been saying for months here and why I wasn’t surprised it was cancelled in the first place. ;)

Dude relax, it’s nothing personal. Every TV show ends and yes DIS lasted pretty long for a streaming show; especially one so expensive. And I wouldn’t be shocked if the other Star Trek shows ends after five seasons as well like SNW or LDS because streaming is just a different beast from network TV. I was the one saying this while others refused to listen at the time and kept digging in their hole. OK? Do you need a hug now?

You go around telling a lot of people to relax, and then post very defensively. We get that you hate discovery, you’ve made that abundantly clear. Now take a chill pill and move on.

Aren’t you the guy who is finally actually getting warnings for his incessant inflammatory postings?


Really? Do my eyes deceive me?

AlphaPredator, I like you I do. But feel free to ignore my posts from this point on if you can’t tolerate what I say here. I hope you don’t man, I like talking to you (most of the time), but it’s up to you.

I’m not telling you not to disagree with me, but that’s your only option. If you can’t do that, then ignore me. Many many people have learned here trying to censor me does zero good going as far back as 2011 now. Yeah, it doesn’t work man. And the irony is in all that time I have not been given a warning for anything I ever said here . That should tell you another thing, because I understand how message boards works.

And if you decide to ignore me, I will obviously ignore you too. Cool? Great.

I don’t care if you like me.

Then ignore me, OK?

Per usual, I don’t have the problem with you, it’s ALWAYS one of you guys with me lol. And ironically, it’s people who gets multiple warnings by the mods, get into fights with everyone and even been banned, but you are soooo worried about what I say. Dude, worry about yourself and all the people telling you to chill out here every week. And stop threatening elderly actors if you are so upset with me calling out fictional characters lol. So just ignore me from this point on! Agreed?

Dude, keep standing up for what you believe in here! I know we’ve had some differences, but I respect your opinion, and I would never whine to you like a middle schooler to stop challenging my opinions…lol

You go around telling a lot of people to relax, and then post very defensively. We get that you hate discovery, you’ve made that abundantly clear. Now take a chill pill and move on.

So glad to see that you have the guts to post here what I think many of us are afraid to say. I think a lot of people here who don’t wanna rock the boat are pretty fatigued of this certain person pushing their weight around all the time with the same negative stuff on DSC over and over and over and then pretending like they’re not really belittling the series.


Tiger2 is actually one of the most thoughtful people who talks about Discovery. I don’t think he hates it, just disappointed in it like a lot of people.

I certainly hate it these days. And go on social media, you’ll see real hate. People are pretty civil about it here. 🙂

No, I don’t hate Discovery, I just think it currently sucks. It’s possible to do both,honestly. It’s literally how I feel about my brother. See, now people understand if you have a brother. ;)

And hate is a strong word. I don’t think I’ve ever hated anything in Star Trek. I thought Nemesis sucked and my worst film to this day, but I never hated it. I thought Enterprise sucked, never hated that either. Same for TFF! Early TNG! TOS S3! STID! PIC S1 and 2. TMP! I can go on and on and on lol.

But I have been very disappointed in this show, that’s certainly true. And yeah I have also said multiple times I have no faith in season five, Very very little in fact. I’m just hoping I will like it. But I don’t expect to if it’s anything like the last two seasons. I even said I was thinking of just waiting for the season to end and just binge it. I don’t think I will, but that’s how low my faith of this show now is.

But I’m also guy who was the biggest supporter of seasons 2 and 3 and there are probably about 500 or so posts here on TM that can back me up on that (nothing ever gets erased here)…until they disappointed me as well. I’ve always supported this show, but season 4 just really deflated me I guess.

But judging by many places including here, I’m not exactly alone in that disappointment either.

See for me there is some Trek I do hate! 😁😥

I used to really hate Nemesis, Enterprise, JJ verse, Picard S 1-2 and TMP as my biggest contenders. And Discovery has finally fallen on the list after the last dreadful season. I think season 5 will suck too but like you crossing my fingers.

And some of that has changed now. I really like Enterprise today and Beyond is a decent movie even if I only seen it twice. But Nemesis will always be one of the worst things that ever carried the name Star Trek for me. Just a truly horrid movie. I hate it with the heat of a thousand suns (was that dramatic enough for you).

I actually feel bad when I say I hate TMP because it’s a very ambitious movie and I love the sound track. But I want to slit my wrists every time 30 minutes into it. It’s sooooo boring, tedious and dry. But I know people love it… I’m just not one of them.

But no one should really listen to me because I’m one of those weirdos that don’t actually hate TFF and Justice is still one of my favorite TNG episodes. So I have like zero credibility on anything. 😂

If I’m being honest I have been on the teeter with Nemesis as well lol. But that’s what I mean too, I think if you TRULY hate something, you should find it vile to the point you find it completely unwatchable. But I’ve watched Nemesis about a dozen times now, including recently before season 3 of Picard started. So can’t say I hate it if I voluntarily keep turning it on lol. That’s what I mean.

There are plenty of movies and shows I hate but I literally can’t watch them at all. For all my issues with some Trek shows and films I honestly have no problem watching them. That said, I don’t know if and when I’ll rewatch Discovery as a whole again and I can’t imagine watching season 4 ever again minus some episodes I really liked, but I’m sure I will at some point.

Yeah TMP bores me to tears as well. I admit I can’t really watch it and I’ve only seen it 3 times in the 40+ years I been a fan. I tried to watch it when the 4K version came out last year, I made it 15 minutes in lol. But I don’t hate it either, it’s just too dry to sit through.

Most shows END by season 5. Discovery got cancelled. There is a difference. As is evidenced by the fact that they have to go back and do reshoots to give it a proper ending. TOS was cancelled. TNG Ended. There is a difference. The length of time of a series is irrelevant.

Discovery definitely got cancelled, but I do think it was due to the Paramount tight beltening and it was just the most, waaaait for it, logical, to go first!

But it probably would’ve made it one more season if the service was just doing better overall. But I think Star Trek is going to look very different in the next few years. I was watching the Popcast video today and they read an article talking about season 3 of SNW that kind of suggested that will only have 8 episodes instead of 10. Now that may not be true but if it is, it’s a sign that things are really taking a down turn with that service,

I’m hoping we keep the other shows and get the spin off. But Kurtzman may be suggesting more limited stories and shows because frankly it could just be a way to save money and have less output. And if you’re always changing cast every year, then you don’t have to worry about their salaries constantly going up either. But we’ll see what happens next.

I think you’re right that if it wasn’t for the belt tightening DIS would have gone on to S6. But honestly I think that would have been the last. I can’t imagine TPTB have not seen the reception to SNW and PIC S3 and know now where live action Trek needs to go and DIS just isn’t it no matter how much you try and course correct it at this point.

Yeah it could’ve been cancelled after fifth season regardless. I think because it was canceled BEFORE they aired the last season seem like it was a money issue more than a ratings one as well.

But I suspect the show has been losing a lot of viewers, especially after this season. There is a YouTuber called Trekland who has a really good Trek channel and looked at the metrics of the show nearly a year ago and surmised that the show had lost a ton of viewers and he predicted fifth season would probably be its last and he ended up being right. ;)

If you’re going to use that as the basis for saying something is quality, there’s no basis for intelligent communication with you about a program.

Thank you! Like do people really not get how a message board works?? If you can’t listen to people talking about a show they happen to like then they shouldn’t be here, period.

I’ve listen to you trash TNG, VOY, ENT and the Kelvin movies for a decade now, we get along great lol.

Weird, isn’t it? If I were one of those psycho weird folk who are into odd shows like anything called STAR TREK, I’d probably be replying with an IDIC emoticon right now.

But I don’t speak emoticon!

In a democracy you have to listen to all sides, even the side that enrages you, but it’s all valid. That’s how it works! If you can’t stand to listen to people who say mean things about your favorite show or call a character Space Hitler, it’s really not our problem. But they are certainly welcome to disagree and say why they do and totally fine with that of course. Again, that’s how a democracy and yes, message boards, works! And debate is fun! So I always welcome it. It’s why I even come here.

But once you try to censor someone because you just don’t want to hear it, then you don’t belong here, period. And I don’t want to talk to that person anymore. That goes completely against democracy.

I also think some people just get triggered more easily as well when they really like something of course, but again, that’s not OUR problem lol. They choose to be on message boards, so they have to deal with it if they want to interact with people. I don’t get triggered over TV shows or movies, I don’t care what people say about them, positive or negative, even if I like them, so I guess that’s why it’s different for some of us.

I will admit I get a little triggered when people talk negatively about Star Trek as a whole, but yeah I just stay off the Star Wars boards. ;D

It’s tiresome to get that kind of constant negativity on any one of the shows, I agree.

I still watch Discovery, and rewatch at least once with one of the family though. Season four really dragged at points. I don’t think the writers successfully navigated the limits of COVID protocols.

I’m looking forward to the final season nonetheless. I’m very excited to hear that Cronenberg’s Kovic will have a more presence. And I really Hope Kurtzman’s vision has some room for new stories in the 32nd century. The far future was cool and interesting, I’m just not sure that Discovery has been the best vehicle (pun intended) to continue exploring it.

I don’t have a hatred for how bad it is, I have a hatred for how badly it screwed up canon, both in the 23rd century and for future shows that have to adhere to it’s new canon in the 32nd. It book ended Star Trek with bad story telling that every new Trek show has to adhere to,

Chill up dude. It’s just a tv show.

A TV show screwing up a franchise.

LOL I knew you weren’t a big fan of Discovery, but I didn’t realize how much you really hated it until now.

I’m not a fan of DSC, but still can’t grasp the hatred people have for it. If it’s not for you, just move on and stop talking about it, let other people enjoy it. But anytime any a Trek they like gets brought up, they have to toss out little snide insults at Discovery.

Yeah, it just gets so old. The worst are the fans that insult it constantly, but then fall back on the disingenuous BS of “I hope it’s better this season,” “I want to like it more,” etc. etc.

Rotton Tomatoes disagrees. Which means the majority of those that voice their opinions disagree. As do the stats.

You’re funny 😆.

Rotten Tomatoes audience score is just one self selecting group of mostly men in the United States.

It’s a part of the audience. Never mistake it for THE audience.

Rotten Tomatoes is pretty much useless.

Granted. But TPTB pay attention to it none the less. And you are ignoring the other stats beyond RT like SNW being the most watched show while it aired.

TPTB use much more sophisticated metrics than audience scores that are bombed by hate campaigns.

Yes, those sophisticated metrics take into account all kinds of social media, not limited to the US market, so Rotten Tomatoes audience score works its way in there.

What they look for on Rotten Tomatoes is the aggregate professional review scores, a totally different thing, but still heavily weighted to US reviewers, especially the ‘top’ tier ones from major entertainment industry publications.

LOL, RT is far from a representative sample.

Every review site Discovery is currently the lowest Trek show, not just RT. ;)

Agreed, Kurtzman has been smart in that regard lately, letting the talent do their thing. I think SH learned a lesson with DSC.

Agreed. I also think he hired people who truly gets Star Trek and probably more than he does. And I have defended Kurtzman over and over again. I have said I like the direction he’s taking the franchise even if I don’t love every show personally. But they all been getting better and another reason why I can get behind S31 more, even if it’s not my first choice..or my third lol.

You’re right there, they definitely have been getting better! I actually get up at 5:30AM to watch SNW and now PICARD because I can’t wait to see what’s next and don’t want to get spoiled!

Yeah, you have to give him the blame when you think something sucks, but you also have to give him the credit when something is good, that’s how it works.

And I didn’t mean to trigger anyone over Discovery lol. I was just being honest because currently it’s the only show right now I think sucks, which, well, sucks lol.

But that’s a pretty good record out of five shows and it proves every new show has improved over the other IMO. And yeah I’m loving Picard right now but I have been VERY honest how I felt about the first two seasons and if season 3 still doesn’t stick to landing, I will be honest and say that sucks too.

But I’m much more confident now that show will at least end on a decent note. Again, could be wrong but I hope I’m not.

Kurtzman has learned to fine creator showrunners who understand the franchise and have a vision.

Any one of them will not have the same view as all the fans, because as we see here, fans have many and different ideas about what Trek is and what they want.

But we’re not in the mass market 90s so it’s not only ok that no one show or showrunner will deliver what the mass of Trek fans want. It’s better, because like Ira Steven Behr they can cover off a swath of the franchise while at the same time pulling in new viewers who might not have considered Trek is for them.

All cool, especially since Kurtzman doesn’t seem to feel the need at this point to put his own micro stamp on every single product. He seems to be better at being a strategist and executive and has reached the point where we’re getting consistently good stuff across the franchise.

Let Matalas make his share of shows, but I wish the ‘give him the keys to the franchise’ stuff would chill.

We’ve got the opportunity for a number of creators to bring their A game. No need to campaign for the next overall visionary.

Agreed! I have no issues with Kurtzman. I think he is generally on the right track and giving something for everyone. And I don’t want Matalas to control the franchise, it’s not even necessary since people generally seem to like most of the shows…except, OK, I’ll stop lol.

I think he started off weak but he is honestly trying to do right by Trek and make the fans happy. I mean he is obv listening to the fans. SNW and PIC S3 are evidence of that.

I agree with this too. And of course it’s a learning curve on all sides. Once he started to understand both what Star Trek is and what the audience expects, they were able to make more appealing shows because yeah he started listening to the fans. And it’s also easier when you have five different shows to get it right lol.

I don’t think they got it right with the early days of Discovery and Picard, but you look at where most of the shows are today and they are total Star Trek IMO even if you still don’t like them. You look at the first episode of Discovery and then the first episode of SNW, it’s like two different studios made them. But it really does show how much they have evolved on it. Again, that’s why I give Kurtzman tons of credit because he course corrected in every way possible. Unfortunately I think Discovery is still a really bad show, but its a more ‘Trek-y’ show today versus when it started at least.

100%. Kurtzman should just sit back and cash his EP checks and let someone like Terry Matalas actually create the stories and tones of the shows.

Terry works for Alex. That’s not going to change.

A miniseries! Exactly what i’d love to see. Take advantage of the advantages of streaming!

Spending less isn’t an advantage.

Ok, you’re just schizophrenic. Got it.

Have you not been paying attention to the market? You can have a miniseries or nothing at all. Take your pick.

Then nothing it is. I’m not going to buy yearly subscriptions to P+ for a few miniseries. They will need a new flagship show to replace Disco to keep me subscribed. Trek nostalgia shows won’t do it for me. Unless they bring back The Sisko.

They have a new flagship series. It’s called SNW. If you don’t like it, there’s the door. Bye bye.

And it’s not JUST about a subscription, it’s about content. Even if I wasn’t a P+ subscriber, I would still want more (good) content rather than nothing, even if it meant I was renting it off of amazon.

Sorry that’s not a flagship show.

Dude it’s 100% a flagship show and it represents what Star Trek is in every way that matters. That’s why both it and Picard season 3 are so popular. Just because you don’t like it personally doesn’t change that.

P+ movie. Star Trek Everyverse Everytimeline All At Once

LOLOL, great title!!

thanks, it took a while to figure out! (and im still not entirely happy with it)

Opening Title Song: I want it all (Queen)


All sounds like good news so far. I would be lying if I said a Picard spin off wouldn’t be my main focus but I’m interested in whatever they are planning for what is next. I think a limited show for individual characters is what a lot of fans been suggesting as well. A single season show of Worf, Riker, Janeway, Seven etc sound like an idea most fans could eagerly get behind.

As far as a Picard/TNG movie, I’ll believe it when I see it, but would definitely see it if true. ;)

And they don’t even have to be 10 episodes. It can be four 3-episode stories. Release them every other month or something. Give it an umbrella title, for lack of a better name, something like “Star Trek Legacies: Captain Worf.”

Shorter runs offer up so many possibilities and a broader range of stories. It could even be used for backdoor pilots to test new series concepts.

Exactly! And this isn’t the first time Kurtzman has suggested this, way back in 2018, they were saying they were planning to do limited series formats but it never happened. I guess we kind of got that with Short Treks but I think it was always meant to be something much bigger.

But it’s a way to focus on individual legacy characters and give them their own stories without trying to shoe horn then in on another show.

LOL don’t you guys realize that they are downplaying ST? They have gone from 5 Trek shows a year to maybe a couple of episodes a year. Paramount+ doesn’t need Trek anymore.

Discovery is cancelled and now you want the entire franchise to die? You don’t love Star Trek anymore?

This is a joke, right? Or are you schizophrenic?

He’s very sad Discovery is leaving, which I understand, but don’t take out the entire franchise over it lol.

I mean, “to just 2 episodes” is just factually incorrect though. Discovery has 1 more season in 2024, SNW has 2 more seasons in 2023 & 24, and nothing here suggests they’ll cancel everything and replace them with a single miniseries.

A. He’s mostly a troll.

B. He’s a childsih troll. Don’t take what he says too seriously. He’s just acting out.

You should stop talking about yourself in the third person. It’s confusing.

Don’t waste your time with this genius. Just a troll. Always has been.

The only people Paramount need are Tom Cruise and Kevin Costner. That isn’t the point. I won’t deny there won’t be a new ep of Trek every week for the year from now on but we just heard of renewals of SNW and a new few potential shows coming up.

The sad thing is I hardly watch P+. I only subscribe for the Trek and I’m not really a big fan of SNW.

I think you’re not a big fan of SNW because its more popular than DIS is. I mean, you were the same person saying Star Trek belonged in the 23rd century and that it should be closer to TOS. What other show right now is closer to all of that than SNW?

Also, they could sell the physical dvd/blu rays set for each segment separately each for the cost of a season set.

I mean, so folks can just buy the subset of episodes they’re most interested in and totally not to make easy money off those of us that like buying physical media.

As far as I’m concerned, Michael Dorn is absolutely crushing the role of Worf this time around. The more we see of him, the better.

Not that I expected him to not be up to snuff by any means, but he’s really at the top of his game.

Yeah I think he’s convincing people maybe it would’ve been a great idea if he got that Worf show after all lol. I was one of the people never fully onboard with the idea. But man this season is a great reminder how great Worf still is as a character and like pretty much all the TNG actors, Dorn has not lost a step.

It’s amazing to watch him and we know it won’t be the last time either!

Riker has been the standout performance for me this season.

I think he’s the one who’s surprised me the most. This might genuinely be the best performance of his entire career.


He is the Kevin Costner of Trek — wooden actor earlier in career, nailing it later in his career.

I think both Riker and Worf have been the stand outs this season and definitely has to be involved in a spin off show, even if not full time.

It’s truly an exciting time to be a Trek fan. It seems our discussion the other day about what we might see in 2024/25 might have to be adjusted. Could it be possible we could see….


…and on top of that, more Lower Decks?

I also think when SNW eventually wraps up that they will pivot that into Star Trek TOS Continues type of show with new Kirk, etc — covering the remainder of the original 5 year mission and perhaps up to TMP.

Yeah, seeing Riker in command of Shaw’s Titan made me wish we had gotten a series with Riker’s Titan after Nemesis. Oh well.

And yes, Worf has been great this season too!

Agreed. I wasn’t keen on a Worf show but I would’ve been happy seeing a Titan show after Nemesis. That probably would’ve been a better option instead of Discovery as well IMO.

Riker looks like he is having a blast in every scene. It is infectious.

Yes, definitely! I like the chemistry between him and Michelle Hurd, too. I’d like to see a section 31 series with them as the focus.

Raffi with Worf is the first time I have liked Raffi in this series

Raffi has been awesome since season 1 episode 1.

Amazing considering she wasn’t in it.

That’s just shows her awesomeness

Raffi was meh in season 1. In season 2 all she did was play fiddle to Seven. It’s only now that she is getting a real shot at being meaningful.

Yeah Rafffi was awful in seasons 1 and 2 and I really loved her in the beginning. Season 3 is finally reminding me what I did like about her.

I often think about Mulgrew’s segment of The Captains and that, plus her interview with Gates McFadden really makes me want to see the Janeway miniseries, but I just don’t think P+ has that kind of courage.

An adult drama where Janeway, head of Starfleet, must balance some sort of Starfleet-specific threat against the stress of being a parent (why not have kids after coming back from the Delta Quadrant?). I just don’t think the people making this stuff have the sophistication or patience to do something a little more considered and scaled down and there’s probably even market research that shows fans have little patience beyond “show me some space ships and only reference things I’ve already seen or else I’ll unsubscribe!” — but, let’s face it, if they’re doing a Janeway show, that’s just for fans and not about drawing in new audiences, so, might as well keep the ambitions for the project reasonable. Mulgrew is terrific, and a quieter, down to earth affair (with just *enough* space action) will probably be very successful.

We’ll probably just get Michelle Yeoh hopping universes to partner up with Trek legends from every era to roundhouse kick some bad guys. Which could be good, but it’s the path of least resistance.

I wouldn’t have an issue with that at all. I think a smaller more focused story showing Janeway’s life after Voyager came home would be interesting. It doesn’t have to last three seasons, it could be a five episode story.

And I’m going to be very honest, until she was announced to be on Prodigy, I never thought we would see Mulgrew play Janeway again. Yeah many fans have wanted her to return but Mulgrew has been pretty adamant she wasn’t that keen to return to play Janeway again sort of the way Stewart said he wasn’t interested. She’s always left the door open (you’ll be crazy not too) but I don’t think she’s been sitting by the phone either. Avery Brooks definitely isn’t lol.

But now that we have her again, USE her!!! I love her in Prodigy but I still want a live action version of her and I want to see ‘present day’ Janeway, ie, in the same time like we are seeing everyone on Picard. I think she took Prodigy because A.she doesn’t have to stand on a set for 12 hours in uniform B. easy money lol and C. she really liked what they had in store for the show. You hear that all the time but after watching it and seeing how they used her and the story line, I can see why she did it. And yes, easy money lol. But now she seems eager to play her live action again.

She probably realize how exciting to be back in that universe again and the nostalgia of the role again. She never complained about the role, but she always said it takes a lot of out of you. Thats why while sure I think many actors would happily return, I don’t think many are begging to do it again full time even if the money is great. Every interview I listen to it’s always ‘that was a great gig with great money and life long friends, but it was a lot of work and wearing the make up sucked’.

But I also agree, if they do something with her live action, it’s going to be on a Picard season 3 level, ie, lots of memberberries and Janeway kicking ass against the Borg or something.

SNW would still be my main focus but a PIC spinoff, if Matalas would be #2 for sure. He really did a great job (so far) at turning things around.

I love SNW too, but I admit I always care more about going forwards but looking forward to season 2. I still wonder if we’re getting a musical lol.

I’ve typically never been a prequel fan but at the same time TOS will always be my FAV series and darn it if SNW doesn’t get that vibe right. Or as right as they can in 2022. As for the mustical… ummm…. lol.

Definitely understand that too. And unlike Discovery, it’s a TOS prequel done right!

But I still think we are getting a musical unfortunately, but I am the forever optimist and hope it will be great if true.

April 5th, we’ll probably know more! 🤞😉

Oh yeah! I think he’s teasing for that day! ;)

Fingers crossed!

Reading between the lines, it looks like NO Star Trek Legacy series, and YES to a Section 31 series.

Idk, reading between the lines it sounds like both.

If you read it more closely, we might get a Legacy movie and a Janeway movie, but not a Legacy series…that is my conclusion anyway.

It can be interpreted in many ways, but the way I see it is that these miniseries’ are not in place of a Picard spin-off, but in addition to. It’s a way of replacing Discovery by spending a little less money.

So this way you can have SNW, a Picard spin-off, plus a few short form stories.


Also, note Kurtzman’s phrasing, describing it as an expansion. That’s key, I’d think.

Good point!

First Legacy need to be giving birth in the Writer Room. Sure we have expectations and Dreams. But the heartbeat is the Writer Room and the mother umbilical cord should be stable

Sorry, for being now realistic

Reading between the lines it looks like they are ready to start experimenting with miniseries and maybe anthology-type projects. I don’t see no to anything there necessarily, but rather different formats for different stories.

I don’t disagree with your interpretation.

Salt, I’ve been hoping (and pleading here) for this kind of thing for at least a few years.

My only caveat is I would be concern if there aren’t at least one or two multiple season big ensemble live action series.

Trek has thrived on its characters and their relationships. We need to see new found families, built in ensemble shows and not just watch as the IP capital of legacies is drawn down.

My only caveat is I would be concern if there aren’t at least one or two multiple season big ensemble live action series. 

Having at least one flagship series to anchor everything seems like their strategy. Strange New Worlds is that show for now. Beyond that my guess is that there probably will be a 25th century show that comes out of Picard. Time will tell.

Seems more like P+ has cut the Trek budget.

To be fair it does seem that way. The Yellowstone shows are def not going to get anything cut.

Yeah, CBS/P+ only cares about eyeballs on the screen. If they can get the same results with cheaper shows they will do it. I always thought they went too gun-ho with ST after the success of Discovery. I predict that in the next few years they’ll only be one or two ST shows on P+. A flagship show and maybe a cartoon.

I’m not seeing that. They are probably ending Discovery as a budgetary move because shows get more expensive the longer they go on, but there are still new Trek projects being created and produced.

In a way, yes. It sounds like they concluded Discovery, and are “replacing” it with a miniseries, which thus doesn’t need to be 10 episodes. I don’t think SNW is going away, and I don’t think this at all precludes a Picard spin-off.

In fact, a “character-focused miniseries” could even be a Discovery sequel.

I hope they make a Captain 7 show as I don’t like Shaw much. I also would love to see S31 get made and another show set in the 32nd century with some Discovery characters appearing.

Feel the opposite.

Seven is more interesting with some to have a bit of friction with. And I unabashedly adore Shaw as a character.

But we’re in complete agreement about seeing more of the 32nd century. There’s so many promising things to explore there, and some very intriguing recurring characters I’d like to see have an opportunity to shine (Vance, Kovic)

The miniseries should become the new Short Treks. That would also allow occasional visits to the 32nd century so some of Discovery’s crew could get the character development they were denied during the series.

Problem would be to keep these Actors on “Stand by” Contracts. That’s also a Problem that would needed to be resolved first

Love and Dreams do not fill your belly and pay the Bills

That’s true, it’d cover the bases for everyone that way. Especially for characters or situations that may not lend themselves to a full season but would work in a one-and-done story.

Good to hear they are planning more things. I would love a limited series with Michelle Yeoh, Michael Dorn and Michelle Hurd. And I may be in the minority hear but I could do without a Janeway focused-series. We already have her in Prodigy, that´s enough for her. Give other characters a chance.

I agree we have enough Janeway in PRO, as her character is developing and evolving there quite a bit.

Michelle Hurd is doing a great job this season, I think. Her character has improved with the writing. I’d be up for seeing more “Rafaela.”

I still will take a Janeway show lol, but I can’t imagine it happening while she’s still doing Prodigy of course (and is currently my favorite out of the new shows). That would be a little confusing to write for both at the same time. ;)

And I agree, Hurd is much better this season. It shows how much good writing can really do for a character.

I was really surprised by Prodigy, after the first couple episodes it really became true STAR TREK and I wound up staying up super late to watch the whole thing.

Me too Rob, honestly!

Now I always thought the show could be good but I didn’t think at THIS level good either. Unfortunately I think describing it as a ‘kids show’ has done some damage in terms of its perception. I’m pretty certain a lot of people are not watching it because that’s how they percieve it unfortunately. And of course some people will just not watch an animated show at all. But I really encourage everyone to at least watch the first ten episodes and then decide.

And BTW, if someone wants to tell me here and now they still think Prodigy sucks or it’s just a stupid kid’s show that shouldn’t be considered canon, I won’t lose my shit over it, I promise.

I was one of those that was turned off by it being promoted as a kids show. I’m not usually a fan of animated shows, but after watching two episodes, I ended up binge watching it in two days. It’s a really good show.

Wow, I’m happy you gave it a chance Trellium G and ended up liking it!

But I see it all the time online. Not really here, most people have at least watched a few episodes and decided it’s not their thing. But I’ve seen people adamant they have no intentions of watching it at all because it’s a kid’s show and it’s almost beneath them. I think a lot of people feel it will just talk down to them or something.

Honestly that’s why I held off watching it because I thought it would be to juvenile. Boy was I surprised! By the time they got to the holideck ep with the unexpected guest stars and especially the ep on the planet where a very specific shuttle had crashed I knew the folks making it truly loved Trek and understood what made it work. Absolutely love that series. Plus it’s theme song is fantastic!

Yes, exactly, that’s why I fell in love wit this show so fast. For me, it was the holodeck episode that I knew this show was going to be something special and that was only the sixth episode. It’s a show that really honors the universe but still try to explain it to young or new fans where they don’t feel lost either.

I had always planned to watch the show regardless but I was afraid too it would just feel too juvenile. I think the best decision they made was having Janeway on the show because that excited people and to at least check it out. I’ve seen tons of people who said they only started watching the show because of Janeway but they eventually fell in love with the show and the other characters as well.

I really want this show to continue after the second season because the people making it are amazing at their jobs and they obviously have a real plan where it’s all going. It’s just Star Trek at it’s best IMO.

Same here, I tried it out ‘just because’ and wound up tuning in for all of it and loved it. Such a pleasant surprise.

Right?? Can’t wait for the next season!

Seriously. There’s no character that can’t be elevated by writers who’ve decided to actually invest in them. I’m hoping Elnor and Soji get their turn going as the franchise goes forward.

I think we’ll see Elnor and Soji again if they do make a spin off show. Now that we know Data is back (spoilers), it makes even more sense to connect him to his daughter. So I hope to see Soji back in some form.

They could go and try some Testballon Episodes with Seven and Janeway.

Let her be: an Holodeck “Real Life” Version of Janeway, where Seven need her Experience

Let her be supporting and encourage Seven taken up the Captain Seat and beyond. Follow in Janeway’s footsteps (2 Episode Arc could do)

or Perhaps in the Spinoff Series with Seven (and others of course) had an “Voyager Veteran Crew meat and Greed Day. Perhaps some of the Old Voyager Crew get Married and send all of the remaining Voyager Crew some invitation cards.

But you know what? Seven trying to get in contact with Janeway and She try to indirect Way asking Tuvok and friends if they are still in touch with her for the Weeding idea of mine. So some of the Old Voyager cast gets some Easter Egg Screentime and Party before they part their Ways again. Oh yes, how should get Married? Well, Harry Kim ist the best Candidate and excuse for that :)

This makes me think of ‘Marvel One Shots’.

They were varying episodes and brief like Short Treks, but unlike the Short Treks to date, they were true mini pilots to test out characters and concepts.

I’d be happy to see a bundle of those in the Trek universe.

I agree, a limited S31 series with those three would be AWESOME.

Problem would be the Timeline of Phillipa Georgiou and Worf + Raffi. How to bend this much to make this happen?

i forgotten in what time Phillipa Georgiou gone trough with the Time gate

Yeah, that’s true…

They actually didn’t mention when she was sent…just to a time when the prime universe and mirror universe were closer to each other. That could be the 25th Century since there weren’t any issues with crossing into the mirror universe in DS9

An S31 limited series that cuts across eras and shows would be fantastic.

I have tossed out Bashir, Garak, Reed as possibilities for appearances in addition Worf and Raffaela.

If there’s multiverse and time travelling, Miral Paris, planet Boreth and Archer would seem also to fit in.

Picard S3 has reinvigorated my interest in Star Trek for the first time since Enterprise was announced, but I don’t think I need to see the ongoing geriatric adventures of the TNG crew.

I am also not excited about Section 31 with Emperor Georgiou. Captain Georgiou was a brilliant character that Discovery should have been built around, Emperor Georgiou is a poorly-written cartoon villain.

I like the idea of a Shaw/Seven-led Titan cast. I also very much like the dynamic between Jack Crusher and Sidney LaForge. I would like to see more of this with a splash of the TNG cast now and again. If one thing Picard S3 has that previous NuTrek lacks is “fun”.

In regards to a Section 31 series, Worf, Picard S3 Raffi, and a more Captain-like Georgiou could pique my interest.

I would like to see Michelle Yeoh play a pre-Burnam Georgiou captain in a movie or mini-series. I like your take on S31, too!

Now if Kurtzman would cap it off with announcing his immediate resignation that would be great.

LOL harsh! ;)

“Shane! Come back, Shane!”

If you were offered a multi-million dollar contract for 5 years and no one was asking you to go, would you?

I’m not a fan of his, but if he keeps letting producers and writers who actually have talent and a passion for Trek do their own thing, as he seems to be, I have no beef with him.

So now that he’s brought the franchise to the point of producing consistently good stuff covering off a variety of fan tastes, you want to push him off?

Uh, non merci.

We don’t need to remake the franchise so that only guys like you are happy.

I been praying for Kurtzman to be fired for years. Also been praying someone buy me a Ferrari. Been disappointed from both all this time.

I’m OK he stays now. And there is always the fear they can just bring in someone worse.

Better the devil you know right?

Queue up the “Space Hitler” moronic analogy from the immature set of fans who never quite mentally checked out of middle school…lol

You’re late, Tiger2 already spouted that garbage!

What a shock — as predictable as the timing on a Swiss watch. We now need the Tweedle-Dum contingent of our two “Space Hitler” gurus here to use that term for the lunacy to be fully complete. ;-)

LMFAO! … all in good fun! :-))

That’s 90% of the posters here 😆

Have you stopped to think about that analogy for just a second? Hitler killed 6 million Jewish people in an attempted Genocide. How many people is Phillipa responsible for? Because I promise you her genocide is WAY bigger than that. And last I checked, Hitler never ate anyone. They are both guilty of genocide only Georgiou is WORSE. And that’s just going by the statistics.

Has she changed in the past 1 YEAR or so? Sure. does that make up for GENOCIDE? NO!

Georgiou is the perfect analogy for Discovery itself. Trying to attempt and fail at a few good deeds in the end to make up for years of wrong doing.

Just proves how stupid the nickname it is, and that its sole purpose is to mock the show like children.

Just proves how stupid the nickname it is, and that its sole purpose is to mock the show like children.


Dude you aren’t seeing the forest through the trees with this comment.

Hitler created evil — he created an entire empire of evil within a world that had already established Judeo Christian ethics. Giorgiou, on the other hand, was just like emperor number X in a long line of emperors in a evil system — say like Emperor . She was brought up and trained to be evil within the system. Once she was exposed to a different way from the prime universe she was open to change,

I mean it’s like if you go back and look at the practices of the ancient Mayans and pick out one of their emperors and call them evil because they ate the hearts of their enemies? That’s kind of nonsensical given they had an established system and morals that are different from our society today.

This is why the Space Hitler name-calling for Giorgiou is just 100% freaking wrong.

Also being Jewish myself, I’m not comfortable with that in general. It could be just me but 😮‍💨.

Quibble all you want with the specific term but Genocidal Space Tyrant is a factual description of the character, however much your feelings would like that not to be the case.

Adolf is a horrible character. 🤬

Janeway please!

Philippa 🙏

Kurtzman: What does the future hold for us? Heh. Let’s just say we have a few ideas up our sleeve.

Homer: Like what?

Kurtzman: Um, I’d rather not get into it right now.

Homer: Why not?

Kurtzman: All right, we don’t have any ideas for the future. We got nothing. Happy?

Homer: [whiny] No.

I would love to see Enterprise continued through a Romulan War mini series. Although in terms of shows based entirely around the ENT era, I think I tend to agree with John Billingsley’s take on this – that it takes someone at Secret Hideout who is as much of a fan of ENT, as Matalas is TNG, otherwise it will always be at the bottom of the list where potential commissions are concerned. A counter point to this is that ENT references have been pretty constant since ’09, showing that it is at least very much in the writers minds (I loved that they weren’t shy on ENT references in Disco Season 1).

I would like that too.

FWIW, there is a Romulan War fan film out there worth taking a look at.

I had no idea about this, thanks!

Sign me up for a 26-episode season of Strange New Worlds!

If they make a Section 31 show, I’ll probably watch it, because I watch Star Trek. But I’m not at all interested in it or excited about it.

Don’t you feel like SNW is a little dull? Almost every episode is a bottle show. It’s a chore to watch in my opinion.

I agree, it’s fantastic, and every episode is a thrill-a-minute joyride. Glad you’re loving it as much as I am!

I have to agree SNW while a good show is my least favorite of the current cause i feel there is something missing from it. It has all the ingredients to be a great show but it’s missing a final ingredient which i hope they add in S2 and beyond.

It’s far and away my favorite of the new Trek, even above PIC S3. What is that one missing ingredient?

My biggest complaint about SNW was too little Number One. I really hope that it’s corrected in season 2. We need to see the main three interact with each other more, building trust and friendship over time. In a sense, we should also develop along with the characters. S1 missed the mark on this, but at the same time, it was S1. We didn’t see TNG, VOY, and DS9 relationships established overnight. Attachments take time.

Wow, I didn’t feel that way at all. Number One got two episodes where she played a lead or co-leadin role. Arguably three. She got more to do than M’Benga.

I did.

S1 of SNW was overly focused on setting up the stories of TOS legacy characters over those who are unique or original to the pre-Kirk Enterprise.

I still loved it, but in spite of my disappointment that we didn’t see more from Number One and the original characters.

I’m still saddened by the whole idea that the created Hemmer as a plot device to advance Uhura’s character. Yikes!

If on the other hand, we were to get a stand-alone one-shot prequel episode with Hemmer as the principal character, I might be reconciled.

But it creates new Content. Together with ST Prodigy.

Sure Lower Decks have also new original Content, but they use some Pillars Easter Eggs, like Tom Parries or other Fan Favorites Easter Eggs and “old known races”. What will happen if they run out of these Stuff?

So what current Star Trek Show is create New Stuff and not reusing things from the past?

(Sorry, no mean thoughts here, just an normal discussion)

Discovery is the only show currently creating new content. It’s the flagship show after all.

If you consider a baby crying blowing up the Federation new content, sure.

An angry Dowd snuffing out the Husnok in the blink of an eye, a civil war within the Q continuum causing stars going super nova, Charlie remote-blowing up starships… No, Trek has never had any campy pseudo-scifi…at all… not one bit… It all started with the Burn…

C’mon… it’s not any average baby but a dilithium-radiated mutant, and it’s not his crying but an outburst of subspace energy… exactly the type of pseudo science I love and expect them to do. It was a wonderful story arc and a great resolution…


It was still really dumb.

I can’t say for sure that this is what amirami meant, but I think the complaint about the “crying baby” is less a comment on the psuedo-science of the Burn and more on its dramatic impact. I know I was really interested in having a non-villain cause for the burn, something interesting and intriguing and worthy of a debate and discussion but was really disappointed that what we got was the actual cause. It’s was just silly, underwhelming, and didn’t really make me wonder about anything at all. I think that is the real complaint here.

Sry, no mean thoughts here. But the fate of Discovery is sealed and i did not wanted to add Oil into it

They are absolutely not bottle shows.

I guess he means most of the episode mostly takes place on the Enterprise. He’s actually not wrong, most of the episodes do like how most of Picard S3 takes place on the Titan. But I wouldn’t describe it as a bottle show either. We actually do see them on planets and starbases.

But yes these are very expensive shows, so it makes sense to keep most of the action on the ship.

Sorry to hear you don’t like it, but personally, I adore it.

I guess I’m just not feeling it because it’s set before TOS on the Enterprise. I would find it more interesting if it was another ship and crew.

This is one of the rare times we don’t disagree much. If you asked me five years ago, I would’ve said the exact same thing. But I think what won people like me over was Anson Mount as Pike more than anything. You wanted to see what his life was like on Enterprise once we got to know him.

Before that, I honestly couldn’t give two shits about it. Just could not begin to care. Now I do lol. And it’s just a fun and light show that doesn’t take itself that seriously. Another reason why I love Lower Decks.

But I respect it’s just not your thing.

Thanks to SNW, Prodigy, LDs and now Picard S3, Star Trek really seems to be on a roll.
Since Michelle Yeoh might simply be too busy for a series, perhaps some form of Section 31 time travel movie featuring her along with Worf, Bashir and Raffi would work. It was funny for Worf to openly talk about S31 last night on Picard.

‘Thanks to SNW, Prodigy, LDs and now Picard S3, Star Trek really seems to be on a roll.’ And thanks to Discovery for being such a huge siccess for Paramount that it’s success paved the way for all those shows to be made. The current shows and all future shows will have Discovery to thanks for their existence.

I may want to argue about it being a huge sucess, but IMHO Discovery definitely did pave the way for SNW and Short Treks and Picard as well as the animated shows. Perhaps these shows would have eventually been made without Discovery’s existance, but it seems unlikely that Sir Patrick would have been involved – without the “Non-TNG” pitch by Kurtzman.
Ironically, that means without the mixed review of S1 and the abhorently terrible S2 of Picard, we would have never ever seen what we are enjoying with S3.
It’s funny how things work out. Let’s hope Discovery goes out on a high note, like Picard is doing!

Agreed DeanH! These shows have come a long way in a relatively short time. None of them are perfect but they all feel very much like Star Trek today. I’m still not completely excited about a S31 show, but I am more excited about it today than I was three years ago; especially if it takes place in the Picard era. And yeah it would be fine as a movie as well.

Too bad we will never get one about Odo. Hmm. I’d like to see one about Scotty after Relics honestly. Or one about Brunt.

How about *gasp* new characters? Crazy concept I know.

How about you learn to read and go read all of my other comments

How about *gasp* new characters? Crazy concept I know

No kidding. If these folks had been around in 1987, we’d have been treated to a new crew consisting of Johanna McCoy, Uhura and Scotty’s kid, Spocko, and Kirk’s nephew all flying around on the 1701-B.

And it would have been cancelled in six months.

At least in 2006 they had the good sense to abandon the “Tiberias Chase” movie.

lmao bro I would never ask for a kid of Scotty’s. I don’t want a Scotty series really! I’m being gay. Do I need to start adding a disclaimer. Warning: Gritizens is not being serious, just being gay.

Spocko would be a fan favorite for sure.

We got those and you hated them too. Goodbye.

No everyone here just wants to see the same old people over and over.

I am thinking that Section 31 will be the Mini-Series

Likely. Yeoh won’t be available for a full 5 season show but a mini series might be possible…

How do you know she won’t be available? I just saw her on Netflix.

Yeah a S31 mini-series would make sense and it would be easier to accept for all the people who hate the idea from the start if it’s just an isolated story and not a prolong show.

The problem with new Trek is that Kurtzman and co have trained fans to only want to see legacy characters on screen. It’s very short-signed and has completely stagnated the franchise. SNW, Lower Decks, Prodigy, and now Picard S3. You only have to read the comment section of every article on this site to see that the only thing people want to talk about are legacy characters, either showing up in that week’s episode, or the prospect of them getting their own show.

Unfortunately what hasn’t helped is the ONE show trying to push Trek forward, Discovery, is so badly run by Paradise with awful characters that it has pushed fans to want what’s comfortable to them. Same with Picard seasons 1 and 2, so terribly written that any potential for moving Trek forward was wasted.

I’m so sorry that people want to see their favorite characters, what a true crime it is. Throw us all in fandom penalty box then.

You do realize that people also are asking for new shows with new characters that do push Trek forward? Also Lower Decks hasn’t had that many legacy characters return in it, it mostly does move Trek forward. Same with Prodigy. Only there were in that. Would I want more Voyager characters returning in Prodigy season 2? No. But if the producers say they’re giving us that then okay I’m on board.

Good points!

It’s like I don’t need the fandom police after me because I’m openly gay for Weyoun lmao. Especially when I’ve said again and again and again that I actually don’t expect to see him again ever and as such am not actually clamoring for his return. I’m just being gay. Same with wanting a Scotty series or a Brunt series. I don’t actually want those! I’m being gay.

“You keep using that word – I don’t think that word means what you think it means”

… what word… I actually am a man who loves men. That’s what gay means in this era if you mean that.

What a strange post.

Not really? I’m saying that when I talk about Weyoun, I’m not really asking for or expecting to see him again. I’m talking about him because I love him. As a character and as a man who loves other man. Because people do like characters in that way.

When I talk about him, I want to discuss him. I want to discuss his arc, I want to discuss how I see him and how others see him. I know he’s a legacy character but I’ve been fond of him for years versus new characters who are just that, new characters, and I don’t really interact with other Trek fans much. I’ll happily discuss new characters too though.

Ummm, ok.

Who’s asking for new shows with new characters? I’ve genuinely not seen any sentiment like that. All people talk about is a spin off with *insert legacy character*. And if you actually read my post, I’m not blaming fans or pointing the finger at them.

I’m sorry for getting snarky with you then.

But I have seen people asking for more of the new characters myself. I’ve seen people asking for new shows. I myself talk about preferring shows with no or limited legacy characters. I think PIC S3 is dragging everything backwards but that’s really just me. When I talk about wanting legacy characters, it’s because I’m just kinda resigned to that being the case.

Tried to edit this in but can’t so sorry for replying to myself.

Like when I say that I want someone representing Odo, I don’t mean or want Odo himself. I don’t expect him. What I mean is a new character that’s a Vorta or another Changeling or even a Jem’Hadar. Especially a Vorta or a Jem’Hadar. Yes they’re both legacy species but you can still do a lot with them. There’s still more development and worldbuilding there. What are they like post war? Are they free finally from how we saw them during DS9 itself? That’s what I really want to see. And if we see that via new characters, that’s even better.

That’s only if you believe that the very small subset of “loud” Trek fans on a few web sites say.

Emily is right. This endless shell game of pairing up various legacy characters, as if Star Trek were a fantasy football league, is a sign of a stagnating franchise. It is reminiscent of a basketball coach who, 30 points behind in a game, desperately tries subbing multiple players in hopes of finding a combination that clicks.

They’re perfectly capable of creating compelling new characters — we saw that with the likes of Hemmer and Shaw and the La Sirena crew.

The legacy TNG cast works as a kind of last hurrah to a 30-year cultural phenomenon. But Stewart is in his 80s, and the rest not much younger. If they’re to build a sustainable franchise, they need something fresh.

Emily is not right, you just agree with her. There’s a distinct difference.

Emily is always right.

I agree. Disco was a contrived mess from the beginning. Inserting Burnham as the long-lost sister of an iconic Star Trek character with decades of pre-established history was absolutely absurd and set the course for meh for many seasons to come. Sonequa Martin-Green is deserving of better writing. Her TWD character was better written and developed.

Picard season three is not only bringing back legacy characters that we have decades-long interest in, but it’s bringing back the legacy style of character development. I already like Shaw, Jack, and Sidney more than any other NuTrek character. I hope that we get to see more of them.

As I’ve said many times, I am not a fan of DSC, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a valid show. It has many fans, and their opinion is just as valid as yours or mine.

I agree that PICS3 is more like the show I want, but I am fine with a show like DSC existing, as long as I also get a show that I prefer.

Disco was far more frustrating when it was the only option and Picard seasons 1 and 2 only piled on. I am not really into the animated stuff… never have been. However, I have never wished for Disco’s cancellation and I take no joy in the recent announcement.

I think Disco’s writing and character development have been horrid, but I don’t think less of those that enjoy it nor do I think more of those I whom I agree with. We do not need multiple, concurrent indistinct series of Star Trek (DS9 notwithstanding). I think that ultimately led to Star Trek’s dormancy.

A few things of note.

I hate to give Kurtzman credit, but I think that he inherited a hell of a mess from Bryan Fuller. I am amazed that we got SNW and Picard S3. And lest we not forget, Discovery essentially birthed SNW in S2. Parents really do pass down their best traits.I participated in and forums in the ’90s and early 2000s. I recall the same complaints against Berman and Braga back in the day. There really is nothing new under the sun.

Frankly I wish Fuller had been allowed to complete his original idea. We still have no idea what it would have been like: all we know is what Kurtzman et al turned it into.

I actually do think we need multiple short-run (10 ep) Star Trek shows. I think that’s one of the best things Trek can do right now. I think it’s a brilliant strategy.

I suspect Fuller’s version would have been a disaster.

Some of the goofiest elements of Discovery that were baked-in were Fuller’s ideas. (e.g., he thought that Starfleet was rigidly hierarchical and militaristic, so he wanted a ship without obvious hierarchy with a fundamental arc about an officer rising to be captain. What?!!)

It would have been an anthology shaped by a single rigid vision, not a diversity of products and styles that Kurtzman’s now putting forward.

Even if Fuller wasn’t insistent in remaking Trek conceptually and visually into his own personal ideal that many fans actively loathed, Kurtzman’s likely right that the franchise needed to be at a certain level of maturity in the new era to carry an anthology concept.

We don’t know that. We only know the fuller elements because of how they turned out after Kurtzman and co. twisted them.

Also, you use the term “goofiest elements” like that’s a bad thing. Star Trek’s best elements have always been what people on the outside might call goofy.

Your comment about “a single rigid vision, not a diversity…” is based purely in your own speculation. In fact, an anthology is by definition a diverse idea.

Still think it would have been way better, even if it wasn’t what YOU wanted. Fuller is a great storyteller, and pass or fail I wish we could see what he really had planned.

There is no point in buying an assortment of candy if it is all the same flavor. At least with the current series, there is something that appeals to a wide array of Star Trek fans. For instance, I no longer watch Disco or Lower Decks and never watched Prodigy, but I am glad that others enjoy it, especially now that I have SNW and Picard S3, not to mention countless hours of TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT.

Yes a great way to look at it. I wish more people saw it this way lol. You don’t have to like everything but you don’t have to try to get the stuff you hate cancelled just because it doesn’t appeal to you personally. And I like most off the new shows and love all the classic ones.

I didn’t have any problem with Burnham being Spock’s sister. Unnecessary Star Trek retcon’s like Sybok exist. The worst thing they did by far was the time jump, i was actually looking forward to season 3 until they did that even if i like Book and Grudge. Went so far into the future nothing matters. Killed the show. And i like that Michael became Captain. But they should have returned to their own timeline. Don’t like any of the future timeline plots or ship designs. Great that Pike and Spock spun off into their own show, not great they basically erased Disco’s existence in the 23rd century. And the shows don’t overlap.

There was an entire series built around Burnham – after nearly two decades of dormancy. Sybok was relegated to only one movie.

My personal thoughts on this… Kurtzman inherited a ****show and immediately sought to remedy it (to the best that he could) within what had been currently developed. The Pike/Spock episodes of Disco were mostly excellent, setting a high bar for SNW which has been a bit of a disappointment in my opinion. I don’t think that Disco could have stood on its own without appealing to legacy Trek fans. I stopped watching Disco after the mid-way point of S3 so it very well may have improved, I’m just not interested.

I love the way you think Dave! 😎

And I can’t stand Cry baby Burnham either. Not, excuse the pun, crying Discovery is leaving. And I would love to see more adventures of Shaw, Jack Crusher and Sydney La Forge.

The funny thing is I agreed with nearly everything you said and I have no issues with legacy characters. But you’re right, I think some people ONLY want to see legacy characters or just remake their favorite shows but I have talked about that enough lol. But there is nothing wrong with that either. Sometimes we do forget this is just escapish entertainment at the end of the day. And this is not a Star Trek issue alone obviously. Fans just like comfort food and that’s what all the new Trek shows are, SNW and LDS specifically (and yes both I like as well and actually tied for me).

But I disagree it doesn’t push Trek forward. This is most Trek has been pushed forward since VOY went off the air.

And agree about Discovery. Michelle Paradise was a HORRIBLE showrunner and I hope never runs another Star Trek show again.

Prodigy absolutely is! moving the universe forward. Just because people don’t like how doesn’t mean that it isn’t. Dal being accepted into Starfleet is a huge step forward! The galaxy learning that most augments are on the Julian Bashir end of the scale instead of the Khan Noonien-Singh end is something that was long overdue.

Seeing parts of the delta and gamma quadrants that weren’t seen before is also moving it forward imo.

I feel like PIC S3 is taking us backwards instead but that’s just me. Just because I feel that way doesn’t make it necessarily true.

Speaking to the choir here! Another reason Prodigy is such a great show because it’s covering areas of the galaxy we haven’t seen literally since Voyager ended. I love being back in the Delta quadrant and seeing how things have been advancing since that crew returned home. I was a little disappointed they didn’t run into more familiar aliens like the Hirogen or Ocompa, but we know they will be back in there next season so we’ll probably get more,

And yes, leave it to our Admiral Janeway to finally break a 200 year old law and got an Augment involved in Starfleet! :)

(Disclaimer: this is a joke! I’m not actually asking for the return of these characters!)

Who knows, next season we may see the Tsunkatse arena ship again and Dwayne Johnson can make his triumphant return to Trek. And better yet, we can see Penk again.

Now to be serious: actually I’m kinda hoping that Tysess will stick around in the next season and get more development. He’s cool, I wanna see more of him. I know the show is about the kids but it would be really really nice.

You’re breaking site rules, T2, by insulting, harassing, and bullying people. Stop with the attacks on Michelle Paradise or we’ll have to get the admins involved.

Or do we only care when it’s a more legendary actor? I don’t know how these things work.

In the words of Paramore on their newest album: never said I wasn’t petty, you can bet I don’t regret it for a second, it’s a pleasure, it’s a reckoning

LOL, I’m not breaking any ‘rules’. I didn’t say I wanted to slap her, I said I think she’s a horrible producer. How is that an attack or bullying? That’s my opinion of how she does her job. That’s kind of what we do here. People have been calling for Kurtzman to get fired and calling him a hack here for over 5 years now. Not a single person has ever been told not to say that by Anthony, the guy who owns and runs the site, in all that time. Do you not understand how a message board works?

People are just giving their opinions about the people who make the show. People here have said the nastiest things to Bob Orci directly to the guy here for years lol. No one was ever ‘admin’ for it. I know you’re new here, but you have obviously have no idea how this site works. Trust me you’ll be waiting a long long long time before anyone will ever tell me to stop saying Michelle Paradise sucks.

The irony is nothing being said about Discovery or any of these shows is nowhere near as bad as when all the talk was about the Kelvin movies lol. Educate yourself. Spend any time on the comments section discussing STID and you will see stuff that make your skin crawl and that was ten years ago already. Abrams was seen as the devil by many here by the time that movie came out and definitely a hack and no one had any problem saying so. Unfortunately that perception hasn’t changed after the Star Wars sequels but I digress.

Dude, seriously, just ignore me from this point on if you’re triggered by anyone saying something negative. You’re becoming very annoying, at least more than usual.

If everyone was banned on this site and others for saying Discovery sucks and the producers are hacks, there would only be a dozen people around. 🤣

People should be allowed to be honest how they feel. Ironically it’s probably why NuTrek is so much better today because of the complaints online. Discovery is better today but still pretty dreadful overall IMO.

And they are,allowed, that’s literally why I love being here.

This site has been up since 2006 and Anthony Pascale has let people talk shit about all the Trek shows and movies and the people who makes them the entire time. Ask Bob Orci about that lol (and I really love talking to him here). But no one has remotely cared or has ever censored anyone no matter how harsh they talk about anything just as long as people aren’t trolling, spamming the boards or being a dick to other posters (that’s the real issue lol). That’s the only time you even see a mod here. Everything else though is fair game like saying how much I think Michelle Paradise sucks as a producer and should be fired.

And every few years you get newbie posters who try to police the boards themselves or try to tell others to shut up because they don’t want to hear when people talk negatively about a character or their favorite show and usually gives up and leaves at some point. People have been telling me to shut up since 2011 here. Never works and 90% of those people have left. There should be an ignore button so those people don’t have to get triggered all the time, but I digress.

Unfortunately, you have to put with a few people like this now and again but that’s a minor thing for the internet lol. Overall this is a great site to talk openly about Trek for better or for worse and I love being here! :)

Trek fans have been that way long before Kurtzman. Fans actually protested paramount studios because TNG did star the cast from TOS.


And let’s never forget that fans fundraised in the early 1970s to place full-page ads in major US newspapers in order to stop NBC from broadcasting TAS – which did feature the original cast and writers.

This kind of ‘cut off my my nose to spite my face’ fan behaviour has existed since TOS went off the air.

Never heard about the news paper ads. Trek fandom is its best worst enemy.

Wow I never heard about this either. Yeah some fans are purely insane lol.

I’m convinced that the unrelenting fan backlash against TAS’s very existence contributed to it being cancelled 6 episodes into season two despite its being the only franchise show to ever win a ‘best series’ Emmy.

Dude, I never even KNEW there was a backlash of that show of any kind until now. I watched The Center Seat documentary and they did an entire episode about TAS I don’t think they once mentioned fans were against it.

Now I obviously I knew people didn’t like it, thought it felt too cheap, etc and I assumed it was cancelled because not enough were watching. But if there was an boycott against it, then that’s a bit different.

As a kid, I hadn’t much of the awareness of the boycott, watched it avidly even though I was getting old for Saturday morning stuff.

As it turned out, the show appealed more to teens and adults, and Roddenberry and Fontana had pressed unsuccessfully for an evening time slot.

I was super disappointed to realize there were only six new episodes the second season.

It was really only later in university when I connected up with fan clubs that I found out how much of a core of older fans existed who campaigned against it.

I suspect, in addition to feeling that animation wasn’t what the show deserved, they may thought that this would help them get the live action show they wanted. Sound familiar?

I’ll be very honest with you, but when you were trying to get me to watch TAS, I was not that eager as you know. But what kind of sold it for me is when I realized it was only 22 episodes lol. I had no idea how many there were at the time. I assumed it was what most animated shows were at that time, 20 episodes a season. So yeah I thought it was around 40. When I looked and saw it was only 22, I got very excited lol. Because I thought it was going to be really awful and I didn’t think I could make it through 2 full seasons. It was weird to see there were only 6 in season 2.

But as you know, that changed once I got halfway through season 1. But it is surprising just how much people were against it at the time. But you could be right, many were probably hoping to get it cancelled for a live action show. Still that was a gamble for a show that was already prematurely cancelled twice. The network might’ve just shrugged and decided it was never going to get a real audience. Luckily things worked out even if TOS never got another show.

I like his sweater.


I really hope the actual shows continue to be run by someone like Terry Matalas and his team this season. As far as the modern live action Trek series go, Picard S3 has set a very high bar so far compared to Discovery and even edges out SNW in my opinion.

I really hope so too. I think Matalas really understands this era and characters. I’m not saying the people like Chabon didn’t but Matalas has proven he can not only write tight serialized stories but give every character something of substance. So I really hope he sticks around.

At least one new show for Matalas, yes, but not all.

I love the new costume and production designs we see in SNW and 32nd century Discovery.

The whole point is to NOT make the entire franchise in the mould that one subset of fans likes.

It’s no better to be stuck in trying to bring back the Berman-era than it was back in the 80s and 90s never stopped griping about wanting real TOS-style Trek back.

If you’re talking about having showrunners, writers and production teams of equivalent quality but different visions, we can completely agree.

I pretty much love any and all of it if it’s reasonably well done, but I don’t want any one vision to dominate and control.

From my view of it… we have Discovery at its inception which was a pretty big departure tonally/visually from what that “one subset of fans” liked/wanted… which shifted back a little bit towards what that “one subset of fans” liked in its later seasons (specifically with regards to the “Why didn’t they set it way in the future!? They could make new stories without baggage there!” part of it, specifically) while also having introduced the “legacy characters” which would eventually spin off into SNW… SNW very much shifted the general tone of Discovery to cater much more to what that “one subset of fans” likes in its own series… Lower Decks caters to a slightly comedy based version of what that “one subset of fans” sort of likes as far as visually fitting the universe… Picard season 3 caters to what that “one subset of fans” likes in regards to character interactions (both legacy and newly created), general production design (via Drexler/Okuda being more heavily involved), and tonally (with the internal sentiment being this is a modern TNG season 8)… Prodigy caters to some other aspects of what that “one subset of fans” likes visually and with characters like Janeway returning… each of these shows, in varying amounts, does so to some extent and that’s the one consistent through-line in all the shows thus far- every adjustment seems to try to cater to what that “one subset of fans” likes…

That, from my view, feels like it indicates that the “I’ll accept anything, don’t care what it is, slap the Trek name on it, make it look modern, and it’s Trek” fandom segment hasn’t turned out in the same dedicated amount needed to control what happens overall compared to fans of what came before who want just a little more connectivity.

I think we’ll see a Matalas fronted spinoff come out of Picard S3 and more things, whether Matalas is involved or not, which aim to capture a similar tone to Picard S3 going forward because it certainly seems like the people in charge have taken note of what that “one subset of fans” wants more of and that “one subset of fans” is probably much more significant to the bottom line than a lot of people think.

TOS ended in 1991 with Undiscovered Country. It didn’t really make it into the Berman era, Generations kind of proved how foolish it was to try. We had a Kirk that was Shatner but wasn’t recognizable. Really that is the best they can do, a Christmas carol in the Nexus and time travel.

I myself wouldn’t mind seeing Mike McMahan get a shot at showrunning a live-action Trek series. What do other people think?

Not sure about a full live-action show, but something longer than his single wonderful Short Trek.

As far as I know, The Escape Artist remains his only live action credit, other than perhaps the upcoming SNW crossover.

Let’s see what more he can do with a somewhat larger canvas.

If it were my decision i’d first need to see what kind of storyteller he is. Lower Decks isn’t quite the best example.

What’s an ‘academy award wub’? is it like when you hold up a bank and pass a note to the teller that says, “give me your money, I have a gub?”

We need the Terry spinoff to continue the 25th century!

I’m cool with that as one of the the things in the menu.

Just want much more than that alone.

Whatever they decided to do, I hope they turn up the freaking lights. So full of edge!

Ooh edgy opinion

Bev probably has a ghost candle somewhere. That could help.

Unless they’re looking to throw a LOT of money at Michelle Yeoh, I’m pressing X to doubt on Georgiou coming back for a Section 31 project. Winning several prestigious awards, including an Oscar, tends to fill an actor’s dance card quickly and raise their asking price considerably. Then again, maybe I’m wrong; maybe she loved working on Discovery enough to come back if Kurtzman and Co. merely extend an invitation. I guess we’ll find out sooner or later. Honestly, I think a S31 series could work perfectly fine without her; cast Michael Dorn and make Worf the main character and have him act as the head of a group of S31 operatives that go on deep-cover assignments to recover dangerous tech or stop nefarious plots that Starfleet wouldn’t just send any starship crew to solve; kind of in the vein of old-school Mission: Impossible. I’d watch the hell out of that kind of S31 series.

As far as Star Trek’s future, that’s going to depend more on what CBS/Paramount is willing to spend rather than what Alex Kurtzman and his crew have ideas for. With Discovery ending after S5 and Picard wrapping up, they’ll just have the two animated series and Strange New Worlds, and they might decide they’re happy with that if they’re still keeping the purse strings tight. Again, I could be wrong; if they get enough positive feedback about Picard S3 – and most of it has been pretty positive already – they might consider allocating funds for another Terry Matalas project or full series. I absolutely wouldn’t mind that at all.

Paramount+ is very happy with 1923 at $23 million per episode, much of which is star-level salaries.

If you think Yeoh’s Oscar is an impediment, you’re not considering which streamer this is.

Actually, the salaries aren’t nearly what I expected. Ford and Mirren are getting $1M each, Dalton is getting significantly less. So everyone else is probably more ordinary salaries.

$3 million per episode in salaries is still a lot.

We also don’t know what kind of deals the top talent has for international streaming view volumes or residuals. One expects it’s generous and likely to impact Paramount’s ability to cover the other costs.

Given however that Paramount has significantly overshot its new subscription target since mid 2022, it will be worth it if they can avoid drops.

$3 million is a lot yes, but that’s just over 10% of the budget. Not really that much. The real bulk of the cost came from filming in Africa.

But your point is sound: I don’t think Yeoh’s salary will be an impediment.

1923 has a much larger audience than Star Trek in general. The budget can be justified.

Not so sure that we have the metrics to support your view.

1923 hasn’t touched Picard’s level of streaming demand in Parrot Analytics top ten digital originals weekly rankings. In fact, it’s not even Discovery’s typical rank for the most part.

Now, it may be doing well in other metrics or in driving new subscriptions, but don’t assume Star Trek doesn’t remain a significant base and pull for Paramount.

It certainly had breakout viewership of its premiere with over 7 million viewers on the linear Paramount Network and streaming combined. If the more than two million viewers on linear decided to sign up for P+, that would have been huge.

Unfortunately, as much as we all like to tout Parrot Analytics, that service really just tracks online chatter, social media discussion, etc. It doesn’t actually monitor view counts on the service.

The fact is nobody really knows how many people are watching either show, so it’s pointless to speculate in either direction (though the Parrot stats are certainly worth mentioning).


Parrot tends to over represent long-standing fandoms that have a big base of social media chatter.

Parrot does however incorporate other data sources than social media traffic now. They do their own targeted surveys and focus groups and build in viewership stats for markets where they are available.

WBDiscovery has engaged another new metrics house to provide them analytics. I’ll be very curious to see if any of that gets into public domain.

Yeah, Parrot also doesn’t separate positive chatter from negative, so if someone posts a thousand times talking about how they refuse to watch, it all gets counted.

That said, i’d be surprised if Picard wasn’t one of the most-watched shows of the year so far, given all the mainstream press its been receiving.

Star Trek traditionally hasn’t appealed to a broad audience. There is a dedicated following for certain, but it’s Sci-Fi, not your typical formulaic network TV show.

I’ve seen reports of 1923 drawing 7+ million viewers per episode. I would be shocked if any modern, streaming Star Trek approached anything near those numbers, Picard S3 notwithstanding. I could be wrong – numbers are hard to find these days.

I did a quick search for TNG episode viewership (out of curiosity) and during its peak, it drew 11.5M viewers. I think I remember it airing at 7 PM EST on Sundays. That’s solid viewership.

Dave, that 7 million figure for 1923 was for the premiere only, and it was a combination of Linear A d streaming views. (Paramount Network ran in right after Yellowstone that week only as a promotion.)

So, we don’t have anything following that to go on.

That’s the one maddening thing about behind the camera talent that came of age in JJ Abrams orbit – the ability to talk a lot without actually saying anything.

….and if we get one more empty mystery box….

I am down for a S31 miniseries!

I suspect “character-focused miniseries” is what Michael Chabon thought he was writing for Picard Season 1. That finale could’ve been a decent end for Picard if it had been allowed to be his end.

I remain concerned that the character-focused miniseries have a potential to degrade other characters just to push up the title character and force-fit or subordinate other legacies to advance the title character’s journey.

Kurtzman’s going to need to be very careful and protective of all the legacies.

I can see that, like both DC and Marvel, Secret Hideout will have to take pitches and proposals about how the legacies will be used both as principal and secondary characters in any miniseries or movie.

No more relegating Troi or Beverly to be wallpaper for Riker or Picard.

No more making legacies look stupid or less than competent just to promote a new character (as they have with Jack).

No more killing off characters like Hugh or Icheb in a way that reduces the value of the classic episodes they were present in, or makes them unwatchable.

BUT, also not creating original characters to just stand mutely and incompetently beside our legacy heroes just to make them look good.

Secret Hideout also needs to protect the IP value of a competent Starfleet, full of the best and brightest.

“BUT, also not creating original characters to just stand mutely and incompetently beside our legacy heroes just to make them look good.”

This so much. This was my biggest issue with Prodigy and the lack of development for those new characters that weren’t the main kids.

So much this!

Every single writer that will pitch ideas, should be given this by Kurtzman. And if the answers are satisfactory, than you will get to submit your idea.

Please no more Trek from this fool! Picard S3 is just fan service….that’s it from start to finish all the things they read on forums fans want cut n pasted into tiny little onscreen cameos…again…and again…etc etc so tedious. S3 could easily be cutdown to 2 hours…apart from the TNG actors its pretty boring. You can see the TNG actors only have very limited onscreen time together to keep the budget down also….!

Yeah, and that’s why most of us love it to death… There is nothing wrong with fan service within a nearly 60-year-old franchise. We’ve waited long enough to have our dreams finally come true. If fan service is not your thing, you’re either a die-hard innovationist, a casual viewer who doesn’t really care or not an avid fan that fan service is made for… A fan complaining about fan service… where is the logic in that?

Cut down to 2 hours? That’s how I perceive Disco S3 and 4 due to its sloooooooooooow tempo where each episide moved forward the plot for 5 min… just to wait another week.

lol @ thinking the TNG cast members are being paid huge money.

WTF? Lol

The more fan service the better IMO! It’s a big reason so many seem to be loving it. And I love Shaw! This dude is killing it.

SNW is what Discovery should of been from the start. Picard S3 should of been S1 (Picard S1 and S2 and all of Discovery, should never have existed). Pro is what lower decks should of been.

Hindsight is 20 20. It just amazing how long it took to get the formula corrected. To make up for all these years of Star Trek audience abuse. Paramount+ should make amends by pledging never to air Discovery, nor Picard S1 and S2.

Nonsense. While PIC S3 and SNW are infinitely better than early DISCO or PIC I wouldn’t want to miss a second of it (okay, maybe Icheb’s death). They are part of the saga and it’s the way it is. And PRO and LDS are their own thing in their own rights. Why can’t you simply accept their are different flavours for different tastes?

“Abuse.” Talk about victimhood. Relax there, pal, they made some shows you didn’t like, nobody hurt your dog. Just don’t watch them if you don’t like them. It really is that simple.

Speak for yourself and not for me.

You sound like the old TOS purists when The Animated Series was made or TNG premiered. (Yeah, I remember that.)

I and my family have found much to like in new Trek.

Also yes, I have had my criticisms of all the new shows but they are getting better and better overall.

Discovery was the show that carried the burden of remaking the franchise for a new era, much as every season one and two of every Berman-era show.

Unlike the Berman-era, we have had SNW and two animated series come out of the gate with solid first seasons, and Matalas has been given the creative freedom to reboot Picard in its final season.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Matalas is a great showrunner. I’m happy with what he’s done with Picard on balance, and love some of his other work.

Should he be given the keys to the franchise just because one very vocally group of disgruntled fans want to gatekeep any other kind of Trek? No way!

Got Prozac?

Hey, that’s inflammatory!


Agreed. And I think if they had to do it all over again, DIS would’ve been SNW from the start. Same thing with Picard, but I think they ALWAYS wanted to make Picard a TNG revival show, it was just Stewart who didn’t want to do it. But yes, it still could’ve been better overall. And while I love LDS personally, but yeah I will certainly agree PRO is definitely the more traditional Trek show lol and why I like that one more too.

But yeah, as you said it’s all hindsight. Kurtzman had never made a Star Trek show until Discovery. He worked on the Kelvin movies, but that was still a different animal from what most hardcore fans think of Star Trek (I think they are fine for what they are, fun action movies). But yes it took awhile to get to the core of what Trek is and we are now getting it thankfully.

I will actually defend DIS a little and at least say it’s a more ‘Trek-y’ show today by far, no question in my mind at least. The biggest irony about season 4 is it’s probably the most ‘Trek-y’ season we have had since these new shows started, but it still sucked in its execution IMO but that’s always been DIS problem more so than anything. But I don’t think people can argue it didn’t feel like Star Trek at least.

But PIC S3, SNW and PRO are definitely the most traditional Trek has felt since Enterprise ended for sure. It’s all pure comfort food for a lot of Trekkies right now.

It’s a great time to be a fan! :)

Star Trek: Morn confirmed.

I bet the dialogue would be riveting.

As long as we stay in the 25th century, I’m good. Please, no more prequels.

I think it’ll be:

Star Trek: Legacy – full show
Section 31 – mini series
TNG/DS9/VOY character focused – mini series
Starfleet Academy – either full show or mini series

SNW renewed (maybe a further two seasons max)
Lower Decks renewed
Prodigy renewed (a few more seasons at least)

I feel the Star Trek Universe will be directed to focus more on the late 24th/25th Century going forward. So we can have crossover events and possible feature films.

I agree with you, with a few exceptions or embellishments.

– there’s an appetite to see more of the 32nd century, no need to have the new format stories exist only in the 25th century. e.g., Vance and Kovic are fascinating characters that could carry a one hour or 90 minutes one-off.

– the Starfleet Academy show seems a weak concept that most likely to be pulled back to a limited series or pilot direct-to-streaming movie to test the audience interest.

– if Yeoh can only be available for a limited series for S31 (likely), it’s possible that it could be designed to carry on without her after that.

I also would love 7+ seasons of SNW, with Kirk coming in as captain in Season 6, and showing a few seasons with him and Spock BEFORE the five year mission. Mount could continue as a recurring character as Admiral Pike. We could then see the slow evolution of the crew: the addition of Scotty, Dr. McCoy, etc.

Then continue the series as Star Trek: Reborn, and remake classic episodes, but make them better!

I love all of this and hope you’re right? 😎

Especially with an emphasis of more 24th/25th stories. That’s what most fans seem to want. I actually would love the Section 31 show to take place in the 25th century too.

What’s interesting about the debate about what Trek series/movies might be next is what people want. What’s telling is that if you look at the IDW comics, seems like they’ve been focusing on the TOS/TNG/DS9/VOYAGER era. And why not? Fans has been invested in those for a long time. So I think going forward in the streaming/feature film world we’ll continue to see those eras with different actors. That’s the formula that has been working for a long time and why DISC has had a mixed reaction. A Section 31 mini series across those different eras would be cool too.

Georgiou stepped into the “Guardian” but we don’t know where it spit her out! Maybe she and Worf could head up section 31 together and share some tea on wednsdays between beheadings?;)

Yes, yes, yes!

In fact, make S31 time travelling, or at least some of the main cast.

Check in with, or integrate, among others

– Reed and Archer (and Trip!!!) in the 22nd century

– Ash Tyler and Sinnit Dax in the 23rd (Sinnit and MU Georgiou teamed up in a novel set between Discovery S2 & S3.)

– New original characters from the early 24th and/or Curzon Dax

– Worf, Rafaela, Bashir, Garak, and Miral Paris in the early 25th.

So, much of a canvas to play with.

What I would give to see Georgiou and Worf heading up Section 31 and having drinks together between beheadings… They would make one hell of a team together.

If they made Worf part of the Section 31 show, I think that would get a LOT of naysayers on board! Me, included. ;)

Throw in Bashir and make it a time travel premise, people will be begging for it.

See Tiger2, there is a way if they shift to a bigger canvas.

Sometimes stalling development is more about the concept needing to bring in other elements.

S31 has at this point been established to have existed longer than the Federation.

Combine that with the not infrequent time travel across all eras and the looming Temporal War and there’s obvious need for a ‘critical’ arm of Starfleet intelligence that will go to any length to ensure that the Federation survives temporal and other incursions.

So, we have a premise that goes beyond the star power of a single actor or the pull of a particular legacy character.

Georgiou, who’s literally seen what’s on the other side of the Temporal War would be the one to reform and galvanize S3q to prepare for it. But once Yeoh’s established the foundation, S31 would be an organization and a show that would thrive with other leads.

Actually, I would prefer if they don’t do a time travel based show. TT in star trek (and in general) works best when the heroes are sent through time accidentally and need to rectify a situation.

Having Starfleet officers in the 25th century use time travel as a tool might weaken the whole franchise. Like, why they didn’t go and stop Wolf 359, or the Mars attacks or stop the Dominion war that cost lives in the billions.

It has the potential to cheapen all previous stories. I’d rather they don’t go in that direction.

Yes but if you tie the time travel element to the temporal cold war then it frees them up because they will be tasked with mostly stopping people who are going into the past to purposely change history as opposed to events where history just naturally unfolded…that’s the difference and why the TCW has been suggested as part of the show.

In fact, many have theorized that Daniels was a Temporal Agent working for a form of Section 31 in the future. And why I personally thought the show would continue in the 32nd century but I guess that wouldn’t make a lot of sense as the TCW was over by then.

I can be a little more open to that kind of premise. if the tools for time travel is not in the hands of the heroes, but in the hands of a “higher power” it might work, but not without the risks I outlined above.

I guess it would be down to how big of a factor are those who wield this power. The less we know of them, the more this premise can work.

I agree that the potential to visit different eras and characters is huge, but it needs to be done extremely carefully. Like a bad plot or writing, can harm the franchise as a whole. It’s a too risky project…

The time travel aspect in Endgame was the reason I don’t enjoy that finale as much as TNG and DS9s finale.

Yup, I think a lot of fans could jump on that bandwagon. Maybe Yeoh is too expensive now, but Georgiou could guest star on such a series. Bashir, Worf, Raffi and MAYBE (how about this idea?) bring in time traveling RO LAREN! Did she really die or did she beam out last second before the shuttle exploded!!??
Sooooo many possibilites!

Yes, very agreed DeanH. It would sooth over a lot of fears or at least give people more at ease who maybe hates Georgiou but will still watch when you include actual Starfleet legacy characters as well. And yeah, would love for Ro to be part of it too.

Bring on a S31 miniseries (3-6 episodes max). Worf, Raffi, and Seven could get involved in some big mystery with Georgiou. Include Shaw and the Titan crew (and a couple fresh cameos) and you could easily fill a one-and-done mystery spread out over a few episodes. Even better, it could serve as a bridge to the next live action series.

And if we wanted to throw a little time travel into it, perhaps the “mystery” would be something that allows us to briefly go back and visit Ash Tyler, and then another stop in the late 23rd century where would visit an elder Sulu. George Takei is still working.

I’d be game for including Ash Tyler.

More, returning to Boreth in either century and bringing Miral Paris into the mix seems like a natural.

Who would have thought the Klingons would be the civilization hiding a long history of time tech, but it’s baked into the franchise now. I think the creators should run with it!

There’s a lot there to work with. A time travel S31 adventure miniseries that spans several time periods, but ultimately lands and attaches to the PIC era. Bring it on, I’m here for it.

And when I say time periods – I just want to clarify – I do not mean different universes. Several time periods within the prime universe.

Me too.

This doesn’t need to be a multiverse show. In fact, it would make complete sense for Georgiou to see her mission as protecting the Prime Timeline that she’s seen in the 32nd century.

Georgiou could not only be the champion of S31, she could also be the one to establish the Department of Temporal Investigations. She’d find them terribly boring, but would see the need for them.

It would be hilarious to see her telling them which temporal intrusions to ignore all the while she’s protecting the timeline.

Georgiou’s first mission should be to rescue the pregnant Kelpian before her offspring causes the burn.

The sad part of Picard Season 2 is that it was a real attempt to challenge the audience, and it was a mess.

I want emotional and intellectual challenges. What timeline, what year, even what charatcer it is makes very little difference.

Look at Dr Who and you can see a lot of effort just simply wasted on a lot of busy action that is completely unrelatable. I hope they don’t wallow in that kind of mindlessness.

Pleeeeeease can we have something with Rios and La Sirena and the holograms.

Rather shocked that Captain Kirk being alive and I’m status isn’t a bigger deal, perhaps Terry and Dave thought we’d all assume it was only his remains,…
but, there are bio signs, potentially a heartbeat and the text has been blown up and reveals he was rescued by project Phoenix
as in rising from the ashes
lets see a payoff Terry, please

He really needs to follow through with this. It would be so cruel to toss something that huge into the episode and not do anything with it.

I am going to get dragged for this, but if Kirk returns it should be Chris Pine that portrays him. I have a number of issues with the JJverse but the casting wasn’t one of them.

I would be happy with either Shatner or Pine. However, I think Pine would be a better choice because he is younger and could do more action scenes in addition to opening the possibility of the Kelvinverse cast taking over the Prime universe version of their characters for the movies.

Totally agree with you. Pine is bar none the best, most qualified actor to portray Kirk in a return. The only question is if he’d do it for a cameo.

Unless — and this is pie in the sky talk — unless they could spin him off into his own miniseries afterward.

One thing in reading the comments below, I realize how Trek is different for everyone in how it impacts them and what their expectations are. All I can confirm is how I feel, and I LOVE all Trek, TOS all the through SNW, and yes, I love Discovery. It is all part of a great universe that I am so proud to have been in my life since I saw Spock on TV at 5 years old and my Grandmother told me he was the devil. hahaha! I am excited to see how it keeps evolving through the generations.

Thank you for this Steven!

It seems we are close in age. I was a primary grader when I saw “Devil in the Dark” in first run.

I’ve been an unabashed of Trek ever since.

I have at least tried all of it, and like you am not only comfortable with seeing it evolve and try a wide range of new things, I want the big menu of lots of different offerings, including original principal characters and legacies.

Well said! Yeah no matter how we feel about a particular show or movie it all comes from the same beautiful universe (or universes ;)). We may sometimes disagree on things but Star Trek as a whole an amazing property that many of us here have followed our entire lives and shaped our lives because of it.

I love Trek to my core and I think all of it is important and should be recognized as so. I have always said that and defended things I don’t even love when people say something shouldn’t be canon just because they don’t like it.

Star Trek Legacy – Make it so.

According to a notoriously well-informed YT channel, Kurtzman is creatively out and most of his pet projects (S31 and Academy) are out as well. Terry Matalas will be in control of a PIC follow-up. I don’t know if that inside intel is correct but it’s definitely better than the other way round IMO.

Which YT is well-informed? Is it one of the ones that’s been saying Kurtzman would be fired any day now since 2017?

It’s Sci-Trek. I know, I know… He says lots of stuff all the time claiming to have direct access to insiders but then, I guess I want this to be true so much I suspend by disbelieve for the time being…

Yeah, be cautious. I find it hard to take anyone seriously when they claim they have mysterious “inside sources” unless they have a solid track record… especially when it’s related to Trek.

Fact is, every Trek “rumor” from these YT channels — even the well-meaning ones — have mostly been proven to be little more than well-reasoned wishful thinking and total guesswork.

Haha the hater YT channels (we all know who they are) finally got something right – predicting the end of Discovery – FIVE years into its run and only after helping spawn all the great Trek shows we have now!

They are just promoting their own narrative.

Another regular here shared last week that they’d heard that a shift to Marvel-style legacy character limited series and movies was under consideration by Paramount. That seems to be borne out by Kurtzman’s interview.

What it doesn’t mean that they are pushing Kurtzman out as the head of the franchise, dumping other projects completely, or that Paramount is giving Matalas the keys to the franchise based on one season of Picard that hasn’t even finished its run.


Even when they get it right, it’s often just coincidence. Someone claimed after episode 3 that it they had a “direct source” saying a Picard spin-off was in the works, and is now thumping their chest because of all the talk proves their source is legit.

But i’d be willing to bet it was just an easy guess. Like someone predicting a Pike series after Season 2 of Discovery.

If Kurtzman was creatively out the picture going forward, he wouldn’t be giving an interview. How many anti-Kurtzman Trek YT channels are there now?

And to add – even if Matalas is in control of a PIC sequel, which would be creatively ideal, it doesn’t knock Kurtzman out of the picture. He is this era’s Berman.

The interview was certainly not given yesterday. The decision to move on with Matalas in creative control and Kurtzman only in the back was supposedly made within the last 48 hours. Again, I don’t know whether Jay speaks the truth or just pretends to know stuff. I’m just curious. This is THE most pivotal decision process in Trek history…

Oh please…

Again, Paramount would not break a five-year contract with Kurtzman to run the franchise on the basis of a half season of one show.

Technically they don’t break any contract. The franchise remains with Secret Hideout though Kurtzman doesn’t get involved with the creative stuff anymore. No contract broken, just adjusted to new personnel. Again, I don’t say that any of this IS the case, but it could be… And it makes sense…

The contract is with Kurtzman personally as well as with Secret Hideout which is his own production company.

Kurtzman’s contract doesn’t expire until 2026. And Matalas was brought on by him…

Two Cents from a curmudgeon:

I’d like to see a Titan spin-off, rather than “Legacy.” I’m not opposed to letting legacy hero characters pop up from time to time, but there’s something nice in just letting them ride off into the sunset, even if we know in our hearts that’s not how each story ended.

Case in point: Ben Sisko. I will 100% say that Avery Brooks was the best actor portraying a captain across all shows and movies. (You can disagree with that opinion – just a matter of taste). We left with wondering if Sisko would ever return from the Wormhole. Would he ever meet his unborn child? Was it more important for him to stay with the Prophets than return to Bajor? What decisions as a human would he make? Super interesting questions! It leaves room for discussion and debate. A world of possibilities. Now, imagine if at Daystrom we saw something like Sisko being held in stasis or something. It would kind of collapse all those interesting questions and discussions and ideas into a solid fact that just leaves a mystery rather than possibility. I don’t think that’s as interesting.

So, give me Titan rather than Legacy. Even though I’m not a big fan of Raffi, it would be important to make sure there are Black characters in positions of power, so she might be a logical inclusion.

I wasn’t a big fan of Disco. I think Sonequa Martin-Green talents were wasted on Michael, but also that the show put too much of a “main character” focus on her, rather than developing a cohesive crew. The way that the show has tried to course-correct so many times tells me that it’s not been run with a strong central vision. It felt like it never took time to breathe. It had moments, for sure, and it has improved, but I don’t think it can be fixed.

Really like SNW. Give me episodic Trek. Now just please, please, find something for Number One. I think she’s really underutilized and deserves more. Hopefully season 2 rectifies that.

I’m not keen on a series focused around Emperor Georgiou. I doubt that even the best Trek writers that ever have been could sufficiently redeem someone who has killed off at least one entire planet of sentient life (Mintaka III) and likes to eat parts of another sentient humanoid. I was put off by her writing (I can never explain how much the “AI sausage” line bothered me), and thought she was a little too moustache-twirlingly evil to really work in the universe. I’m also really tired of S31. I wish that it hadn’t made it out of DS9. A series that’s based on Captain Georgiou, on the other hand, would be amazing. Maybe somehow she’s alive? Trek writers can find a way to bring her back if they really want to.

Also, fringe idea, gimme “Star Trek: Jeffrey’s Tube” (yes, the spelling is intentional) – set it literally anywhere, but every single character is played by Jeffrey Combs.

I would love that Jeffrey Combs series.

But also I 100% agree with most of everything. I haven’t seen much of Disco to comment on that part. I do however agree with liking a series about Captain Georgiou more because the mirror universe was just never interesting to me ever.

I think at this point I don’t have much interest in any more spinoffs. My dream series is to see Star Trek ‘clear the cache,’ so to speak, and go back to basics. Just a ship exploring, with people I’ve never heard of going to places I’ve never heard of.

Set it in another galaxy if needed, but I do think Trek needs to move beyond its iconography and cultural baggage. It’s all beginning to look like the latest model of Data, a twitchy thing cobbled together with familiar old parts and personalities.

I should acknowledge that Discovery and SNW have done this to some extent. I’m just looking for something to take the next step.

Even though I still think Kurtzman is a hack I can’t disagree he has turned things around in the last few years by hiring great people, his best decision by giving us Terry Matalas for Picard season 3.

This is the best Star Trek since the DS9 and VOY days and has brought me back to TNG. I even like this season over LDS and PRO. So I give credit where credit is due. I thought NuTrek has been mostly awful starting with the silly JJ verse stuff to Discovery and Picard. Awful stuff.

But now there has been an amazing turnaround. So I’m excited to see what is coming next, even including Section 31: The Adolf Chronicles.

But we need more Terry Trek! And I signed that petition on the other page weeks ago. Matalas is the best thing that’s come to Trek in the last 30 years. 😎

I think Matalas will be sticking around .There is so much push for this guy to stay involved in Star Trek, it would be insane to not want him to make future shows if the plan is to make more 25th century stories. Unless season 3 is just tanking in the ratings (and I don’t see how) I suspect he’ll be back at some point.

It is really good Star Trek. It’s not perfect and yes someone should really turn up the lights but it ticks all the boxes for a lot of fans out there, probably not in a way since TNG itself.

Supporting Matalas staying around and making a show and limited series or movies is one thing. I’m all for that.

I love 12 Monkeys so I already knew he can create and helm a great show.

Campaigning for him to take over the franchise at this point. No.

I need to see that, in Trek, he can get beyond serving up product to the chronic naysayers and complainers and offer originality. I need to see that he can be strategic for the franchise rather than just address his own personal sense of gaps and unresolved stories.

Kurtzman’s just hit his peak in terms of finding great showrunners and letting them have their head without letting them burn IP.

I don’t think it’s in anyway helpful to indulge the YouTubers to the point that they think the franchise will be remade in their gatekeeping ideal. I’m all for including a show that they will like in the menu of offerings.

Paramount won’t hold new or really long haul fans like me though if they limit Trek to the gatekeeper in fans narrow ideal.

As I said down further up this thread, toxic and gatekeeping fan behaviour has been hurting the franchise since fans took out full page ads in major newspapers to try to keep TAS off the air. It’s hard to find information on the negative fan campaigns like that one, but they’ve been in existence almost as long as the positive ones.

Let’s not pit ‘Terry Trek’ against the other new Kurtzman-era content that many love and enjoy. And don’t assume that the fans of Discovery and SNW are as in love with Picard season three as the ‘Terry Trek’ guys.

What a way to try to continue to polarize the fandom guys.

Lol bro are you okay?

I just said I been happy with most of the shows. I don’t even care if they make Section 31. I just thought it would be like Discovery and suck. Today I’m more hopeful at least.

I didn’t pit anything against anyone man. I love McMahan and the Hageman brothers too and hope we get LDS and PRO at least a few more years. I just hope Matalas can make another show too. That’s cool right? And not every one has to like every show anyway.

I think you’re thinking about this a little too hard bro.

And they wanted to boycott TAS? I’ve only seen one episode.

I’m fine TG1701.

Just trying to provide some tempering caution around the ‘Terry Trek’ stuff.

I’d be happy to see more from Matalas. I was super excited to know he was taking over for season three, long before the YouTubers decided he was their guy.

What I am concerned about is how some of the guys promoting this are unabashedly trying to promote Matalas as a way to ‘fix’ everything they don’t like.

So, I’m just pointing out, as others here have done, that there is a risk in jumping on the “Terry Trek” campaign bandwagon given that it was started by several of the YouTubers who have been negative to the point of toxic since 2016.

I can be and am critical of any and all the shows, as well as enthusiastic. I express both things here.

But like Steven, my bottom line is that Trek has been bringing me joy since I was a young child.

The purpose of citing the anti-TAS newspaper campaign of the 70s is to illustrate why I am skeptical of any group of fans that tries to put down or gatekeep one kind of Star Trek offering so that only the Trek they like can be made.

As long as the ‘Terry Trek’ campaign stays on the positive side of adding Matalas’ vision and avoids putting down the other shows, it’s cool. But the some YouTubers are crossing the line to pitting the fandom against itself even if Matalas consistently takes the high road.

Kurtzman, for whatever faults aside, has been the first guy to helm the franchise who really understands that there will never be one and only one kind of ‘real Star Trek’ that appeals to all or even most fans.

As an OG fan myself, I’m chill with that. IDIC.

I wish that other fans would be and am concerned about people who may be pushing to marginalize other fans with different preferences.

I understand your point man but I have to be honest with you TG47, you seem to be a little obsessed/paranoid about this Matalas thing. Every time I read a post of yours lately, you are sounding off about it. The perfect example was in another thread a few weeks back I suggested we would probably see more ‘Terry Trek’ and you jumped all over me suggesting I wanted to see all the new shows being run by him when I was only saying was I would like to see him make a spin off of Picard as most people seem to obviously do IF they are enjoying the show this season.

Majority of people here is not asking for the guy to totally take over the franchise. Yes, there are YouTubers that really like him and certainly want him more involved in the direction of the franchise but those people are just unhappy with everything that’s been done since 2017. And yes many since 2009. We know there are a lot of NuTrek haters out there, but no I don’t think they speak for the majority either. I’ve always said even if you hate a particular show, most of them seems to be pretty popular these days by the fan base.

So yes, the people who hate all the other shows but managed to like this season of Picard naturally wants him to take over, but those people have been railing to fire Kurtzman for years now anyway, they just finally found someone to actually do that with in their heads, which has no chance of even happening. But the rest of us, the overwhelming majority I suspect, don’t want shows like LDS, SNW or PRO cancelled, we simply want another 25th century show on top of it and Matalas has been a great beacon of that, see the difference?

Yes, the people who are hollering they only want Terry Trek are simply the people who has been unhappy with Kurtzman forever now regardless. But most people, people like us, who has had ups and downs with modern Trek but still want it be as varied as it’s been the last few years as many has been saying on this thread. I don’t think you really have to worry about that, most fans seem to want to have a mixture of formats, time periods and voices; Matalas is simply another voice we want brought in too as an addition and not a replacement.

And lastly, the bigger irony to all of this is Matalas has been pretty adamant in interview after interview that he believes Star Trek isn’t just ‘one’ thing and that it needs different voices as well to grow and that it’s important that different shows represent that. In fact, he said just that to all the YouTubers directly in a live stream who was railing against all the new shows. He literally told them that in their faces. So you don’t have to worry man, Matalas himself very much gets it and agrees with you too.

Tiger2, I think you know I’m a Matalas fan. I was really excited that he was making this season long before RMB or other YouTubers got their screeners.

I’m just concerned that folks think twice before getting pulled into the agenda of the guys who have been undermining the franchise for 6 years. Good they are onboard with something in the menu, but I don’t want them to try to convince us that it should be the only thing on offer.

I’ve seen some of what you’re talking about too in terms of Matalas confirming there’s more than one type of real Star Trek. Terry himself is a team player.

However, I have also seen Drexler and Okuda walking the line of encouraging the YouTubers in dissing the production design of other shows. Not cool.

I’m old enough to remember the mimeoed fan wars in the late 80s as TNG came on, and the same on the old bulletin boards in the 90s. Some of the old TOS fans were relentless.

With Roddenberry’s death there was this whole thing around Richard Arnold and should he be able to continue speaking for the Roddenberry IP or not.

So, yah. I don’t want to see a much more public social media version of the stuff I’m really aware of from that era.

Kurtzman is good at his job, especially when he stays in his lane and allows his show runners to actually run the shows. I would be really surprised if Matalas’ name wasn’t front and center in Kurtzman’s mind.

Good to see you here my friend! 😀

And agreed with everything you said. Really hope you’re right and Matalas has a long and bright future with Trek. He’s proven he deserves it. 👍

I’d like to see a Star Trek series about the Dax symbiote that chronicles its life from its first host to its last, covering the entirety of Star Trek history.

This is a fantastic idea!



Great idea!


There’s a rather good anthology book called ‘The Lives of Dax’ that does this. Different authors each write a story from each of Dax’s lives.

I hadn’t considered it as an onscreen streaming anthology but, I can see the concept might work, especially as CBS Studios builds up an inventory of sets, interior fittings and props from across the eras.


Take THAT, clickbait websites claiming Star Trek is dead.

There’s already people twisting his comments to “prove” that it’s dead. “They’re going to cancel SNW and LDS and PRO and all we’ll get is a single 3-episode miniseries! Trek is dead!”

Seems like.

I have so little patience for this stuff.

Really nearly 60 years of the franchise and 50 years of fans trying to stop new Trek that doesn’t fit what they want.

(I know we disagree on some things, but I think you may realize that I’m on the side of creativity, testing out new stuff, but also being totally open adjustments being made when something – plot, character or production choice doesn’t hit the mark with enough of the audience. I’m an analyst even before my own preferences.)