The third season of Star Trek: Picard has been popular with fans and critics, and now there’s metrics to back that up—the show is a bona fide hit for Paramount+.
Picard arrives in Nielsen’s Top 10
Nielsen, known as the leading company doing broadcast and cable television ratings, also tracks streaming. And their latest release features Star Trek: Picard on the original programming top 10 list, showing up at number 9. Unlike their television ratings which track share and viewers, the streaming chart tracks total minutes viewed for each show (in millions), with Picard coming in at 310 million.
This is a Star Trek first for Nielsen which started charting streaming content in 2021 but only started tracking Paramount+ shows earlier this year. As noted above, this chart covers mid-March, around the release of the fourth episode of Picard season 3. Nielsen’s streaming charts take around a month to be released. This indicates that the Picard audience is growing during season 3 and so the show could start showing up more in the coming weeks.
This is only the second time Paramount+ has made the list, following 1923, one of their Yellowstone spin-offs, which showed up on the same chart two weeks ago (at number 6 with 560 million minutes viewed). Tracking streaming is more complicated, due to how each service has a different number of subscribers. Shows on Netflix and Disney+ tend to dominate the streaming charts, but those streaming services also have significantly more subscribers than Paramount+.
So, about that spin-off…
Nielsen ratings have always dominated the discussion in Hollywood. Reporting on the same Nielsen release, The Hollywood Reporter headline leads with “‘Star Trek: Picard’ Makes Streaming Chart Debut.” Paramount is tightening its belt when it comes to spending on original content and it recently decided to end Star Trek: Discovery with the fifth season, but the now documented popularity of season 3 of Picard will be noticed by Paramount and executive producer Alex Kurtzman, who oversees the franchise for Paramount+. This attention can only help the ambitions of showrunner Terry Matalas with the “Star Trek: Legacy” spin-off series he envisions.
Star Trek: Picard wraps up next Thursday with the season and series finale.
The third and final season of Picard premiered on Thursday, Feb. 16, 2023, exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., and Latin America, and on February 17 Paramount+ in Europe and elsewhere, with new episodes of the 10-episode-long season available to stream weekly. It also debuted on Friday, Feb. 17 internationally on Amazon Prime Video in more than 200 countries and territories. In Canada, it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.
Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
I guess turning on Picard and letting it play through for noise at night has made a difference…
You guess wrong.
I wish we had other data to compare. Paramount Plus wasn’t tracked by Nielsen until very recently.
We have the one that died versus the one that didn’t.
Is this a joke about Data the character? I’m confused.
These metrics from Nielsen are new. They didn’t exist for Discovery’s earlier seasons.
Nielsen can’t tell us how well Discovery did historically for any kind of comparison.
From other measures however, we know that Discovery previously did quite well.
Nielsen streaming numbers are, in additional to being less timely, only beaded on television boxes. They don’t reflect viewership on tablets, computers or phones.
What we do know is that a show’s Nielsen rankings in the streaming top ten tracks fairly closely to its performance in other metrics for the same week.
How did Discovery do in other metrics a few years back or SNW last year before a Nielsen number was available? Almost as well as Picard is doing now actually.
Other numbers are available at Parrot Analytics. SNW leapt ahead of Discovery and it would seem that Picard Season 3 leapt ahead of SNW. The show is a winner for Paramount.
Internationally though, the Parrot Analytics info I saw last summer had DSC S4 outperforming SNW S1 and Picard S2.
It’s interesting how Lower Decks never makes it to the top of these analytics ratings. We can all assess how Picard, SNW and DSC have done, but like the old and famous Bob Ueker commercial, “LDS is sitting in the front row!” LOL
LOL. Love that one!
So, Bob Bakish would go on to say on the earnings call after SNW debuted, it was their highest rated Star Trek series to date. Nielsen and Parrot use analytics to determine how a show is performing but Paramount (and other content providers) know exactly how a show is performing with every click to play. Of course, no one likes to share that info.
What I would love to know is of the 80 million or so subscribers to Paramount+, how many of those subscribers are watching each series and how many of those viewers actually make it through the entire season.
Yeah, good point. And the hype train is going to be in full gear for SNW S2 — mark my word, it’s going to surpass Pic S3’s viewership.
There’s a different Parrot Analytics top ten for ‘adult animated comedies’ that gets released publicly only occasionally. Both Prodigy and Lower Decks do well.
Last summer Parrot put out a report demonstrating that there’s untapped demand in the market for animated series that, as a whole, the streamers aren’t meeting. It’s got a comparative table showing all the major streamers and their animated shows. Lower Decks and Prodigy aren’t quite at the SW or Marvel levels but, they’re fine.
See this cartoon site article: https://www.cartoonbrew.com/business/animation-supply-demand-parrot-analytics-219442.html
Which is why it’s so odd that WBD basically gutted Cartoon Network and Adult Swim to give us.. Tiny Toons Looniversity. Oy.
While I’m not worried about LDS at all, I suspect it can go another season or two after season 5, I am happy you mentioned that about Prodigy. For some reason I don’t think it will get passed season 2. But its nice to hear it’s performing strongly enough on some level and maybe will get a third season and beyond.
YES IT IS!!
And well deserved! :)
Then why did you make that dumbass remark (no offense meant) that you can’t prove with ratings data?
…this comment is meant for Riker’s Mailbox, obviously
I’m being cautious around what we can and can’t say.
We can’t show yet how Nielsen numbers track to Parrot for any Paramount shows, but there are patterns that map for shows on other streamers.
Where it gets tricky for the Trek franchise is q metrics like Parrot capture negative chatter as much as positive, and legacy shows start from a floor.
Comparing Discovery or SNWs Parrot score directly to Picard’s isn’t entirely fair. They might have lower views but less media and social media traction.
At the extreme end, The Night Agent, which had astonishing number of viewing hours its premiere weekend on Netflix, as a completely new show with no franchise, is just above where SNW or Discovery usually place on Parrot.
(I can tell I’m getting to used to presenting data visually.
Look at Rotten Tomatos if you want to gain a sense of how unloved it was.
Rotten Tomatoes just tells us that it was targeted by the alt-right for review bombing. There’s nothing even remotely scientific or random about a self-selected group of extremist haters trying to make a statement by trashing a show they don’t like because it features people who aren’t white men.
Parrot Analytics provides a nit more context which shows that it’s performing very well for Paramount: https://tv.parrotanalytics.com/US/star-trek-picard-paramount-plus
44% is definitely way more than any modern Trek series had ever been. That’s definitely a high mark.
Discovery was pretty high in the 30s% last year, and so was SNW. The darling of Reddit, Lower Decks, had never broken into the 30s.
We the People will be Assimilated By Star Trek. Picard. Resistance is Futile!!
Kurtzman, please leave. Paramount, wise up and give TM the keys.
LOL! Terry Matalas. What he has done for Star Trek is what Simon Bennett has done for Power Rangers.
Kurtzman hired him and promoted him this season and let him run this – just like Berman did with Ira SB.
I think fans should be thanking Kurtzman, not coming up with childish, moronic insults that make them sound like they’re in middle school.
Exactly. The anti-Kurtzman rhetoric borders on sociopathic sometimes.
Yeah, Kurtzman is doing a fine job.
In the mirror universe, maybe.
Outside of a little of this season and a little of SNW, Kurtzman has never been associated with anything I didn’t find to be crap outside of the WATCHMEN feature, and I really don’t know how much damage or work of his is in the final cut of that.
And there’s the thing: YOU don’t like his work. That’s not true for everyone and it’s high time that you (and others in this community) realise that just because you have an opinion, it doesn’t make it gospel.
It’s high time that lemmings and other trek acolytes realize that there is room in this ‘verse for dissenting opinions — especially informed dissenting opinions.
He is entitled to his opinion.
Ugh, I walked out of WATCHMEN. Got through it finally on disc much later and it reconfirmed that it’s one of the worst films I’ve ever seen. IDIC of course.
Admittedly it is divisive among fans of the graphic novel — and I consider the book to be genuinely a work of literature, near-perfect in execution.
However heretical it may sound, I do think the film improves on the book’s ending, though apparently Kurtzman’s old ally Lindelof did not, since the HBO continuation series reinstates the novel’s squid ending as how it went down.
It’s a bit of an oddity, given that I find Zack Snyder’s output since to be wholly unwatchable, and that except for his DAWN OF THE DEAD remake, nothing preceding it impressed me much.But I swear I’ve watched just the opening backstory section by itself at least 60 times — it seems a textbook example for presenting a ton of information visually and concisely. For a film that I imagined somewhat differently nearly two decades earlier with Geena Davis and Jeff Goldblum and Rutger Hauer and Robert Davi, it still really clicks for me.
Rather liked the feature film myself, in spite of of its really dark take on humanity — I even have the soundtrack, which is boss. Moore may disdain it as a film adaptation on principle, but I think it gets across his main point well enough: that fantasies about powerful, costumed superheros righting all that ails us are, at base, pretty fascist.
I’ve seen the used soundtrack at work (Goodwill) and was going back & forth about getting it, but shoot, it’s only two bucks and I have a huge credit to burn through (bought my wife a KitchenAide that had to be returned), so why not? I’d guess the Dylan and the Hendrix cues would probably cover that cost.
Snyder does trot out the slo-mo too often and the age makeups are a mixed bag, but I’ve just always been all-in on this one.
Checked my movie list just now and haven’t rewatched the movie since 2021, so I’m probably overdue for another look. I’m finding that in terms of rewatches (which is most of my viewing), it is turning into a regular circuit of films and TV, while others that I actually consider better films don’t seem to merit as many rewatches anymore. I’ve only seen KANE three times this century (not counting select scene views), and even though I think Spike’s HER is one of the best SF films of the last decade or so, have only seen that a couple times since (ditto for UNDER THE SKIN, my other pic for favorite SF post-CHILDREN OF MEN.) I don’t think I’ve seen GRAVITY more than once since getting the disk, and shoot, i saw that 3x in the theater (only movie that can make that claim this century, largely for the vfx rather than the storytelling.)
CHILDREN OF MEN was incredible, if harrowing and at times difficult to sit through, well worth the ride just for the masterclass in filmmaking that was the attack on the car when Julianne Moore buys it, and getting to hear Michael Caine say “Pull my finger” before exiting himself. GRAVITY is more immersive visuals than narrative, but so expertly put together that I’ll gladly take it. (I also love the way George Clooney’s voice circles the soundstage on my decent home theatre in the film’s opening.) And I loved HER too, on many levels. But I’ll still take ARRIVAL as the best SF film of the present century so far. I only wish that I liked Villeneuve’s BLADE RUNNER sequel half as well, and DUNE a quarter as well.
I find myself also doing mostly rewatches these days. Next up: Zhang Yimou’s HERO, which is one of maybe a half-dozen or so movies I’ve seen in my life that so astounded me that I left the theater speechless. Ravishing to the senses and technically near- perfect, it’s like if Stanley Kubrick decided to make the ultimate kick-ass martial arts movie.
We usually have HERO in stock at GW too; I’ll take a look, sounds like it is well worth a blind buy based on that glowing recommendation. ARRIVAL blew my wife away, but eluded me first time through, though I bought the disk awhile back anyway, figuring the deliberate craftsmanship alone will merit reviewing. My take on 2049 was as lukewarm as yours, but when I tried to rewatch, I couldn’t last 10 minutes, so guess I should be happy that we keep enjoying his DUNE regardless of how arid it seems (we still think the Lynch is much more of a fun ride though.)
ARRIVAL was adapted from one of the best SF short stories I’ve ever read, and is one of the few adaptations that in my view bettered the source material. In the end we all have our own tastes — and that’s a good thing — so I hope that HERO turns out not to be a letdown for you given how I feel about it. All I can say is that I also did a recent rewatch of Ang Lee’s CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON, in honor of its anniversary, and while I still think it’s great (Michelle Yeoh, you kick butt, girl!), for my money HERO is its superior in every way. Zhang Yimou ended-up doing a trilogy of martial arts films, all worth seeing, but HERO was the first and imo the best. I really do think of him as the Stanley Kubrick of China (they both got their start as still photographers), but where Kubrick takes a more and more formalized approach to his subjects as his career progresses, Yimou went the opposite way, with his films becoming ever-more passionate. At the very least, do yourself a favor and give him a shot.
I agree. I think he’s doing a pretty good job. I think he understands the philosophy of Star Trek and what that means. We had to meander through a lot of peak TV tropes to get there but I’m very optimistic about Star Trek’s future, especially when compared to something like Star Wars which has little worthwhile creative vision behind it.
But there is the Inverse Kurtzman Law — the closer he’s involved with a series, the worse it tends to be.
That makes no sense whatsoever given he was not involved in the creative genesis of discovery and he deferred to a lot of Stewart’s overall storage direction early on Picard. In comparison, he was in on the ground floor of — as a Kevin Feige
-type franchise level executive producer — launching SNW, Prodigy and LDS – which the majority of core fans like.
So the opposite of what you are saying is true.
I mean, even if we all agree that DSC and PIC S1&2 were disasters (I don’t but i’ll accept it for the sake of argument) — Picard Season 3, Prodigy, Lower Decks, and SNW are all [generally] widely loved by fans.
Not only that, he was stuck with Fuller’s concept and set-up for DSC, and for Picard, he had to give a lot of latitude to Steward early on for the story concept, which Stewart was forcing to be Picard psycho-babble (I am exaggerating a bit, but you get my drift).
One could argue that Kurtzman is following the same path as Berman — he inherited some weak Trek, and then righted the ship and created new great series.
True. That said, i’m not here lauding him as a great producer, just defending him from accusations of being called garbage.
Very true — not garbage, but a mediocre creative mind at best.
If that’s your definition of his role, then I would say the exact same thing about Rick Berman.
I really don’t agree with this definition but nevertheless, if that’s the definition we must use then Berman’s the same deal. You can’t have it both ways
One could argue that and be wrong.
And if my grandmother had wheels she’d be a wagon
I’ve come millions of miles…..!
…Just to be with you.
Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.
(Yes, I’m that old. Only my Gen-Z kids keep me from being hopelessly cringe.)
Right! Kurtzman hate is so corny at this point. I love that we have a Star Trek: Universe on P+ and it’s thank to Kurtzman. And not a lot of people could pull that off. And it clearly just keeps getting better. This season is amazing yes but also the very first season of SNW hit it out the park. Prodigy is very cool and different but also very Star Trek and beautiful. Lower Desks is hilarious. And no matter if your a fan of the show or not it all started with Discovery. So yes lets give Terry a show please but also steady as she goes Alex, great job!!
Executives above Kurtzman approve the shows but cool story.
His post is spot-on
His post is completely fair. You seem to just have a narrative you want to prove.
Fans should be thanking Kurtzman for being busy with other projects so the meddling with Matalas was kept to a minium, granted.
Sounds like a good activity for you, Riker’s Mailbox and Sponge Bob Square Pants.
Ira Steven Behr.
I’m sure Paramount read your comment and is giving it careful consideration.
LOL. Well said.
Based on all the responses here, it looks like Riker’s Mailbox is getting his mail returned to him, marked: UNDELIVERED – POSTAGE DUE. Lol
Yeah but a lot of the different responses are from the same spam source.
Huh? If you’re going to accuse me or anyone else of something then accuse the person you are alluding to here directly so that the mods can see it and check on it. Otherwise, please refrain fome these trolling BS types of remarks that obviously seem to be geared towards you getting out of an uncomfortable situation, where almost everyone’s disagreeing with you. Thank you
… fade away to final scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark
Kurtzman did hire him and originated the Picard show in the first place. I don’t get why people are turning on him, he’s responsible for all the good things too, not just the bad things. I for one am thankful for many things Kurtzman has spearheaded, such as Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks!
This is also in danger of becoming spam given that Riker’s Mailbox keeps posting that same statement (it’s basically the same sentence every time) in article after article here. It’s like he just cuts and paste that same remark over and over and over. That’s called trolling, obviously.
And in defense of Kurtzman, Patrick Stewart would only agree to do the show if it wasn’t a TNG reunion, and he had a HUGE say in the story.
Paramount hired Matalas; Kurtzman isn’t Louis B. Mayer.
Nope. Matalas first approached Kurtzman through Akiva, and then Alex hired him.
Oh stop trying to divide the franchise (more than it is).
And given the rough ride last night’s episode got on this and many other boards, it’s very premature to react based on data that’s a month old.
Kurtzman is overseeing the franchise but he’s doing what others typically do in his position: Hire the right people, take a step back and let them run with the ball. Oddly enough, he seemed to have started hitting his stride with Prodigy and Lower Decks, hiring people who know, live and breathe Star Trek but also know how to produce a series and also bring in the right people. It was a learning curve for Kurtzman but it looks like he figured it out (Starfleet Academy may be the real test).
Exactly! I have been a full on Kurtzman supporter since the day Picard was announced. Before then I was very suspect where he was going to take the franchise. But that decision proved he at least wanted to see Trek venture to other areas AND was listening to the fans who was begging for a post-Nemesis show. Now I didn’t love the show (until recently ;)) but I still thought it was a step in the right direction.
But since Picard, we have gotten great shows starting with Lower Decks, then Prodigy and finally SNW. And they managed to turn Picard around by season 3 to be a massive hit both with the fans and critics. When you have NuTrek haters who has been shunning this franchise since 2009 now singing this show’s praises you really are doing something right lol.
I have pointed this out soooo many times, the guy does listen to the fans. It’s why we now have four post-Nemesis shows on the air. It’s why we have SNW. It’s why we DON’T have the Discovery Klingons anymore lol. It’s why SNW actually feels like it belongs in the 23rd century. It’s why Discovery is no longer there. It’s why the entire TNG cast is back. They are listening even if people still not fond of all of it.
And we’ll see about Starfleet Academy, but I am totally on board with the idea at least. But I am definitely on board with a Picard spinoff and I know Kurtzman is definitely listening now. ;)
Damn right. If anything, people should thank Kurtzman for being nimble enough to cut the showrunners that suck right away and replace them with showrunners that rock.
In the very beginning, they had to do a lot of persuading to get the big wigs to give them money to produce the show. Remember how Seth MacFarlane pitched the Orville as a comedy first to Fox, and slowly turned it into a Trek-ish show? The same happened for Kurtzman Trek era. He had to pitch them stuff that the execs like and lean on them first – the JJ Trek, the grim dark Game of Thrones, serialization, etc.
And when Kurtzman saw that something is drawing audience attention like Captain Pike, he considered them pretty soon. And when something doesn’t work like the new Klingons, he cut those showrunners right away.
Finally, remember that Kurtzman first approached Terry Matalas for a Short Trek episode “The Escape Artist” in order to source talents for the Trek universe. And Matalas ended up making a very good one, which led him being considered to be the new showrunner of Picard.
Actually I didn’t know he approached Matalas for doing The Escape Artist. But it’s funny that seem to happen with McMahan who got his own show later too.
But it’s why I’m not concerned if we will get a legacy show because Kurtzman knows how much fans want it, so it will happen. It may not happen right away lol, but yes it will most likely happen. More so now that the season is a huge hit and probably the best performing season out of all of them.
And how do you explain the Academy show then?
I’m confused, has that show come out yet for anyone to judge it?
It finally got greenlit with successful creators in the YA niche, and has Tawny Newsome (and her deep knowledge of Treklore) in the writers room.
It’s been in development for quite some time and he’s allowed to push his own pet projects but I think it’s also intended to see if a series set in that time period can stand on its own and skew younger. Paramount announced this series but didn’t commit beyond a single season.
I mean he’s been trying to get this off the ground for five years now lol. It was just time. I imagine the S31 show will eventually happen as well but yeah it could still be years away if that’s not Paramount’s main priority and clearly it hasn’t been.
Please elaborate. Kurtzman hired Matalas, ans they got a winner with season 3. That usually means a contract extension, not termination.
Sooner have Behr or Moore.
Tim Meadows? Tracey Morgan? Tobey McGuire? Tilly Masterson? (gave myself 45sec, figured three real people and a fake one from a different franchise was pretty good for that time frame.)
Looks like all the nostalgia this season has paid off. Now Paramount should give us a DS9, Voyager and Enterprise limited series.
Exactly. We constantly hear fans don’t want too much nostalgia and member berries but oddly enough those are always the most praised stuff on message boards lol. People drooled all over Nepenthe and it was just Picard, Riker and Troi sitting around talking over pizza. So someone finally smartened up (Matalas) and gave them an entire reunion season and it’s literally paying off for them.
People can deny it until the cows come home but when its done right, fan service works like no other.
People are happy with new stuff as long as it incorporates genuine older elements and tries not to rewrite the foundation (looking at you Discovery season 1!).
Exactly! Discovery season 1 tried to reboot Star Trek and that was its mistake and I feel a big reason why it’s still so divided in the fanbase today. They been trying to fix that show ever since and now I feel its too late since it’s been cancelled.
But all the other shows after it really tried to make their show look and feel like classic Star Trek again while still feeling like their own thing. And the responses have been waaaaay more positive over it.
What kind of bugs me is people will automatically assume that the show is a success because the ensemble is back. To a degree, that’s true, but I would argue that it’s also because Matalas gets Trek and gets these characters. It’s also true that Season 1 of Picard could have been successful without the TNG ensemble if the writers were true to the character and story was well thought out and compelling.
SNW was also an ensemble, and also a much better show. Picard is a hit because it’s a TNG reprise, and TNG is easily the most popular Trek show most viewers. Matalas doesn’t “get” Trek as much as I thought initially in the first 5 episodes. I take back my ask to have him act as a franchise-wide creative leader.
From what i’ve seen, the people behing SNW and PRO “get” Trek the best. Matalas, at least at the moment, seems like a fanboy making fan-films. When he resists that urge though, I think he’s a great storyteller.
Please. SNW is just as much of a “reprise” of TOS. Are you kidding?
Where did I say it wasn’t a reprise, or even imply it? You invented that just so you could be angry about it lol.
As for SNW being a “reprise” — i think that does a disservice, though obviously part of its appeal for some fans is its connection to TOS (but because it’s an all-new cast it’s also a part of what a lot of fans dislike about about).
My point is that the appeal of PIC S3 is largely the return of the original TNG cast. If it were the exact same story, but about a different crew coming back together that we’ve never met, I highly doubt most people raving about it would care, let alone even like it.
Whereas, SNW is loved by people like me, who have NO love at all for TOS.
Alpha Predator is by no means alone in his view that fanservice / nostalgia has crowded out good plotting and pacing in the back half of the season.
There was a fair bit of criticism of the last few episodes here, especially episode 8, no matter how emotionally some nostalgic moments hit.
Over on Trek BBS and TOR, the reaction is quite harsh. Reddit is mixed despite the main Trek related subs having mod rules on some that constrain negative posts to Throwdown Thursdays.
As for me, I’m still finding SNW season one the best season of live action Trek in the new era.
Prodigy is hands down the strongest all time in landing a single season serialized arc.
Wow, a fan that disagreed with you named himself “SNW” just to respond to you!
Lol, dude, that’s the ultimate complement and shows that you must be on the right track with your remarks!
Your comment is spot on by the way — I agree 100%
I’m of the belief that there simply wasn’t enough time to write the season. From the sounds of it, this was all very constrained in prep and production. Paramount combined the costs of two seasons and season three drew the short straw because season two burned huge piles of money and that had to be made up for with limiting season three’s scope. Streaming has a big problem in that they tend to bifurcate their writing staff and production staff (in the past, writers would continue working *into* production).
[I know people love the first two seasons of Picard, but the people who ran those seasons were not people who had experience making TV before (anyone thinking MATALAS WAS ON SEASON TWO is some sort of trump card is just wrong and misinformed as to what he had control over — he only had control over season three).]
I guess I’m just offering a meager defense because those first four episodes are so strong (and the Ro stuff in five is pretty great) and the time element is just a likely a reason for why things get wonky or sweaty later on than “dude just doesn’t get it” is.
Personally, I’m forced to wonder if Paramount had mandates on things he had to include:
1) must include a major role for Seven of Nine
2) must include the Borg in a major way
3) must be 10 episodes long (this is 99% guaranteed)
I’ve said this for a while, but Netflix released their list of “most rewatched Trek episodes” in 2016, and it was almost entirely Borg and Seven of Nine episodes. I really do believe that when Picard was being brought back, Paramount demanded that Seven and the Borg play a role in the story every year, because they think that’s what fans love most, based on those analytics.
Because part of me thinks if Matalas truly had full, 100% control, it would have been 6 episodes and not included Seven, Raffi, or the Borg.
Heck, he might have even wanted to do a dozen standalone episodes…
Almost certainly. Every time I’ve interacted with pro writers or people who have specifically worked on these new Trek shows, my takeaway has been, usually, “All the stuff that is annoying is some sort of mandate from a muckety-muck.” Paramount is no different from the studios in making all their decisions based on market research. The only difference between theirs and the other studios is that theirs is usually done on the cheap. Paramount/Viacom is not synonymous with quality.
Yet many of the core fans (not me) hate the new, creative stuff, where your argument doesn’t fit here, like DSC!
Market Research largely mirrors what fans and viewers want — like it or not.
I’m not sure what you’re saying is my argument, but I’ll seek to clarify. “Annoying” in that, in terms of what AlphaPredator was offering, it has to be 10 serialized episodes… and in my conversations, stuff like recapping the plot at the top of every scene,”\ punctuating tension with broad comedy, never taking itself too seriously (“No nerd sh**”).
And yes, Market Research largely mirrors what fans want. Paramount’s market research is not done in the same way that Disney does theirs, for example; but also, their execs really don’t really get too deep into the research. They just look at what iconography people recognize/know about the show and ignore all the stuff about values/beliefs associated with it — this is why we keep getting Borg (First Contact most successful TNG movie) mixed with TWOK (most popular Trek movie) and the Klingons, Romulans, Vulcans, Kirk, and Spock. Over and over again. Again and again.
I don’t see how Discovery not being as popular in the present moment as Star Trek: Picard (Discovery is still incredibly popular. Depending on who you ask, it’s the only good Star Trek ever made) proves that what I said doesn’t fit, though. I don’t see any of the new Treks as being particularly new or creative. Discovery began as a show about Spock’s sister fighting Klingons. That’s market research! Strange New Worlds? A prequel to TOS — Market research! Lower Decks? A sequel to TNG with Rick & Morty DNA — Market research! Prodigy? A sequel to Voyager (the most popular Trek that streamed on Netflix before licensing deal ended) — Market research! Yes, it’s not Paramount’s fault that the vast majority of audiences only want the same thing over and over again, I’m saying that within the fans’ narrow and boring desires, Paramount has their own annoying way of wanting to do things. That’s all I was really trying to say.
DSC began based on Brian Fuller’s own personal concept, and they him run with it untile he got fired for mismanagement (not for the story/creative issues), so, no, it did not begin with market research about Spock’s sister fighting Klingons — that is simply not factual.
I don’t disagree with other parts of your response here though — I certainly agree that SINCE DSC Paramount has an annoying Market Research way of doing things. My counter point was simply that when core fans got a wildly creative departure with DSC, many of those core fans did not embrace it — which unfortunately gives support to those at P+ that want to develop new Trek series that are based more solidly on market research — whether you or I like it or not.
You know what would be brave and cool — a limited series call Star Trek: Borg, where we get a story from the Borg’s perspective that highlights their point of view.
Think of it like Cobra Kai, which initially reversed the roles of Johnny and Daniel, and turned the whole good versus bad on it’s head, and made the viewer question their original viewpoints.
To the audience, it would just be like the last scene in Lower Decks’ “wej duj”. :-)
I suspect you’re right Alpha Predator about the constraints, or ‘must haves’ on Paramount’s side.
How about this for another possible ‘must have’ for the live-action shows that seems to be a pattern since 2016?
– Family ties to legacy characters…
Did Paramount decide that Star Trek needed to be dynastic as a franchise to be successful?
Discovery S1: Michael Burnham is Spock’s foster sister.
Discovery S2: Michael’s birth mother is a time traveler bridging to the 33nd century, and her MU adoptive mother is the Terran Emperor.
SNW: despite all the legacy characters, we still have La’an as a descendant of the family of Khan Noonien-Singh.
Picard S1: Dajh / Soji was characterized as ‘Data’s Daughter; tortured and murdered Icheb as Seven’s son; Elnor ‘like a son’ to Picard & the Riker-Troi’s with an extra entire backstory of their late son and teen daughter.
Picard S2: more Elnor (and time travel)
Picard S3: Matalas just leaned into the family thing with the next, next generation, to the point that not including Lal and Alexander Rozenko or mentioning Kestra seem notable.
Looking back, what longtime fans have criticized as unnecessary ‘small world syndrome’ retcons in Discovery and SNW to link up new characters, may be a feature and not a bug.
Someone at a senior level has made it a requirement.
I do think Time Travel could have been a Paramount directive, as was Q. I think the studio looks at the most watched episodes and sees Q episodes (on TNG and Voyager) and time travel episodes and just says “do that.”
Matalas literally came up with the main plots for season 2. The season long time travel and a plots were all him. Season 3 also took all season to answer questions and introduced the “real” villain at the very end.
Oof. There’s more to MAKING TV than just “[coming] up with the main plot points.” He did not produce season two. It is more than just the plot points. I do not see how this was unclear.
Was he in production meetings, was he in casting, was he supervising cuts, was he on the set every day? There are so many other things that go into making a TV show if you’re an executive producer.
If you look at the original reporting, Matalas was originally brought in to show run season 2 because Chabon was stepping back (to develop one of his own works into another show). And apparently, Matalas did the daily show running during the first half of season 2. He then stepped back during the second half to focus on preparing season 3 at which point Goldsman reportedly took over daily show running duties on season 2.
This helped me realize I’m wrong about a lot. I don’t feel like ST:P-S2 is something anyone should be proud of, but guess what – I’m a f-in idiot on the internet. Thanks for setting me straight.
To be honest, I was a little surprised myself when I noticed recently that season 2 and 3 were largely done by the same team.
Luckily for most fans here, the producers picked a storyline for season 3 (and it was approved by the studio) that resonates much more with long-time trekkies than previous seasons.
Yes, and the main plot points and time travel story weren’t the issues I had with the season, nor was the late-season villain reveal.
(then again, I don’t think Season 2 was pure garbage, either).
He has been a great storyteller elsewhere (12 Monkeys).
I’d like to see more of that in a Trek show.
This season seemed to be an unrepentant, shameless pitch to bring the vitriolic naysayers on YouTube and their audience back into the fold.
Ok, that’s an important strategy for the brand.
If he can stay a team player and perhaps help them get some of those folks to give Prodigy, Lower Decks and SNW a try, all the better. There’re several new posts a week of the ‘I thought I’d hate but…” on other boards. This is helpful for the brand.
As my spouse put it last night, I guess I can live with the cringe moments of nostalgia dragging out too long if it boosts the franchise. Doesn’t mean I’m not looking forward to less of it in SNW though.
It’s hilarious to read the daily “I thought I would hate ” threads.
The main character energy to try to feel special by making a public confession admitting fault is so shallow – like, why don’t they all just let people enjoy things back then, and now they like it they let other people enjoy things finally? Give me a break.
With that said, if enough people write them, we may finally be able to banish those irrational and relentless haters to the realm of Pal-Wraiths. So sick of hearing them like a broken record.
Silly me, I’m assuming the show is a success because people are watching it.
In the uk it’s been consistently number 2 or 3 on Amazon prime since debut
I seem to recall reading last summer that they were adding P+ to their tracking. That would explain why SNW and the previous Yellowstone seasons didn’t show up in their previous monthly Top 10s.
I wonder where lower decks s3 came in last fall in these ratings. 93rd? 167th? Lol
As for Yellowstone, the only shows from the franchise are 1883 and 1923. The original’s reruns stream on Peacock, which has a smaller footprint than P+.
Well, the Yellowstone series 1883 completed its run before the Nielsen’s started doing the P+ ratings last summer, so my point stands .
1883 was only one season, so it half-stands, and yours is technically still a conjecture because we don’t really know how 1883, Halo, SNW, Discovery et al might have performed on that list in previous years.
Shows kept getting renewed and some got traction with Parrot and vague “Best performer ever!” praise from All Access/Paramount+ as it grew, and that was enough for a time.
That’s rather weak, but I can’t completely dismiss it.
And just like THAT… a fourth season ended up on the discussion table.
Indeed. I think Paramount+ could green light the Star Trek Legacy Pitch, if they could produce the show in Toronto.
I don’t see a constraint for a production in the Greater Toronto Area. There’s major studio construction going on all over the region. Production incentives aren’t constrained.
The 2 Ontario-based EPs for the SH productions, Frank Siracusa and John Weber, were also the guys who put forward the proposal for CBS Studios to build its own studio in the region, and managed the project to lease and convert a warehouse complex close to Toronto International Airport.
CBS Stages in Mississauga now has 6 soundstages. SNW isn’t occupying all of them with its standing sets.
The pilot for new Matlock for CBS linear is shooting there and on location around Toronto, as well as some other limited series.
However, even with Starfleet Academy going in there, they may still have a soundstages for another bridge set and other Titan sets.
Actually a fourth season was already on the table. Kurtzman and Stewart said at an event before this season started that another season was still possible. The reality is Picard was probably always a big hit for them (for Star Trek) and there would’ve been another season if Stewart decided to come back after season 3. Again, totally understandable why he was done and frankly a lot of fans probably weren’t that bothered after seasons 1 and 2 lol.
But I don’t think the idea has ever went away. I been very adamant we are getting a spin off show in some form, it’s just a matter of when and what it looks like. But yes, we could just get Matalas show now or even another season with the entire TNG cast back if Stewart wants to come back. Paramount really likes money, so it’s a strong possibility now. ;)
This is great news! Congrats to all the creatives that made this gem possible. David Blass and Mike Okuda and Doug Drexler I am pointing at you too! Terry, if I ever meet you…you are gunna get a hug!
Now, lets get #startreklegacy green-lit and off the ground!!
Yep, a lot of the old guard coming back has made such a difference. You give fans what they want and shockingly fans will watch.
Awesome news. Congrats to the whole Production Team.
Wow wow wow as an original TNG fan the best Picard episode by far well done everyone involved fantastic ! Can’t wait for next week
I have to say, it’s really good and stands on its own. From story, to music, to acting. Kudos to all involved.
It’s gratifying to see Trek making waves in the marketplace. These metrics aren’t perfect, but they are a lot more transparent than the numbers the media companies just keep to themselves. I remember how Nielsen ratings and box office numbers used to bolster my confidence in the franchise’s resilience, or steel me for when the other shoe dropped.
For march hey? Right around when the Dominion and Changeling connections were revealed. Interesting.
Well, this is good news, and at the very least gives some fuel to the “give Terry Matalas a show” argument.
I don’t think it’s a good reason to completely ditch Kurtzman, though. I’m not a huge fan of his storytelling and writing techniques, but he does seem to have skill in putting together teams that put out stuff that people love. I think of him kind of like JJ Abrams. Abrams is a stylish, energetic director, who makes some very silly writing choices.
All in all, I think this bodes well for his leadership within the franchise. Trek is finding its groove again. With the rotating showrunner drama of the first few years of Disco, and the *ahem* uneven first couple seasons of Picard, I think it’s fair to say that the franchise was having a time finding its footing again. Disco settled down with Seasons 3 and 4 (I think 4 might be the best of it), Picard told a coherent story with S3, Prodigy and Lower Decks are working for folks, and SNW is serving up classic episodic Trek, albeit with some modern sensibilities around things mattering to characters from one episode to the next.
Kudos to Terry Matalas for making a coherent, fun season. Kudos to Alex Kurtzman for hiring him for the job. (Alex, do it again, give him another show please.)
Give Terry a show! I was skeptical at first but now I’m a super Terry fan. Give this storyteller a show p+
They did, we’re watching it. Where have you been?
His own show as showrunner is what KvenB is asking for. Based on his other posts, he is very much aware that Matalis is the showrunner for Season 3. Matalis didn’t build this show but may have the opportunity to build a Star Trek series of his own.
Maybe let the dude speak for himself? More than one of us thought his post was nonsensical.
Exactly. Picard is not Matalas show, he simply ran it for a season, huge difference. Now he has the chance to build his own show from the ground up and many many many fans, me included, really want to see what he would do with it if he had the full reigns.
As do I. I’ve heard good things about 12 Monkeys. But is Star Trek: Legacy going to be his own show from the ground up? Or just another nostalgic reunion-driven callback like his season of Picard?
You should watch 12 Monkeys Alpha Predator.
It’s important to know though that Matalas faced some of the same ‘direction from above’ challenges at first. He and his cocreator-coshowrunner had their own concept for a multi season time travel show called Splinter. When they pitched, the production company or SyFy already had rights to make a tv adaptation of the 12 Monkeys movie, and their proposal was seen as too similar. So they were told to merge them.
The first season has some of the same problems as season one of Picard. They had to respect and adapt the storyline and characters of Terry Gilliam’s movie, and lay pipe towards their own much more complex plot arc. Season one of 12 Monkeys works better on rewatch in some ways because there are numerous points woven in that are necessary for the later story but are somewhat extraneous to the original arc from the film.
It’s been clear Matalas has built in his own backdoor pilot into Picard season three. I suspect some of the plot incoherence can be attributed to doing that at the same time as hitting the TNG reunion feels agenda.
LOL you really fell in love with that show TG47. You even know the history and backstory of how it happened. I told you I’m thinking of watching it again even though I already did last year and I think I will at some point this year.
Oh and loving Travelers. Still haven’t finished but at the end of season 2. But it has the same tight plotting, great pacing and really interesting twists 12 Monkeys have. I wish we got that level of writing for shows like Discovery and early Picard, but it’s a lot more of that in season 3 obviously.
Huh? His series is airing right now?
Paramount Plus only started to submit data to Nielsen from February 27 2023 onwards. No wonder no other Star Trek show was in the charts.
This is tracking for the third week since Feb 27 and in the first two weeks since tracking for P+ started, Picard was not in the charts. Because in those two weeks, the show in 10th place had over 400m minutes of watch time.
I don’t think 310m minutes is that good.
For Picard to be in the top 10 for that week is a pretty significant get for P+. It means that enough folks watched it that week to put it in the same order of magnitude of viewers that freaking Ted Lasso has. That’s a show that’s HUGE in the cultural discourse, and it’s not even double PIC’s numbers for the week.
Sure, Picard’s numbers are smaller than the previous week’s 10th place, but that’s not super relevant. Moving up in the rankings at a time when the overall viewership is lower (by around 927m minutes) is a sign of strength, rather than it being a sign of low turnout.
Agree that the facts/context are/is perhaps not as glowing as the headline suggests, and other services that track social media and search suggests that Strange New Worlds had a similar response last year, but one thing this does that few other Star Trek shows have done in this new era is give Paramount+ a positive headline about one of the shows into its run. Usually, all the press coverage is in the runup to a new season when they’re doing press tour. This is a performance-based positive headline tied to Nielsen, which for a long time was the most relevant measure of viewership. Maybe we’ll see SNW-S2 pop up on Nielsen later in the year and that’ll get the same headline, and maybe the rest of Picard season 3 will stay in the top 10, but it’s hard to read this news as anything other than positive. Your mileage may vary on the degree of that positivity, of course.
It is. Head over to Parrot Analytics and scroll down. Also do a search at Parrot for Star Trek Picard and it provides further context on how well the show is doing. The Nielsen numbers serve to further illustrate how well the series is performing. Internally, Paramount knows they have a hit.
I think the point is valid though, that the recent inclusion kind of makes the argument that Picard is the only successful modern Trek invalid.
On Parrot, Picard isn’t doing relatively speaking that much more than Discovery and SNW at their peaks.
However, Picard is staying consistently high in the mid 40s X comparable series, while Discovery consistently hovers in the mid 30s. In May 2022, SNW led breakout new series with 35 X.
The big story for Picard is staying in the top half of the digital originals with Ted Lasso, Mandolorian, Shadow & Bone all with new seasons as well as The Night Agent premiering strongly.
By contrast, SNW premiered very strongly but didn’t hold up the media attention as well. It will be interesting to see how it does this May.
It’s a real shame too, because SNW is miles better-written. It’s absolutely embarrassing for the fandom how much they’ve been duped by a single scene this week.
Fingers crossed that next week’s episode is much better, which will put the balance of the season back in order after a weak last few episodes. I’m hoping to be able to see it Monday, so i’ll give you my spoiler-free review Tuesday, probably.
Ok, seeing the clip from the Ready Room for next week, i’m feeling slightly more optimistic. Perhaps this will be a true TNG episode in format, with a problem they have to solve, and all working together to figure out the solution. Fingers crossed.
Wow that’s interesting about SNW. I assumed it held up all season. But I don’t pretend to know how any of these shows are doing unless there is an article about it like we got here.
All I care about is that Picard is doing strong enough to warrant a spin off show which I don’t think has ever really been in contention. It doesn’t mean it will happen but you can’t argue that fans aren’t hungry for more. I mean even though so many hated season `1 and 2 they still wanted a spin off lol. Because most just want to stay in this era, period. And now even more so since they finally made a satisfying season.
Excellent! Hopefully this bodes well for Legacy.
From the bottom of the barrel, to among the best. What a ride.
From pretty good to a lot better, you mean. Not close to greatness after the last few episodes. You’ve been completely hoodwinked by the Enterprise-D.
I’m not an Enterprise-D apologist (though I do love those sleek lines of a minivan flying through space) but I don’t think it’s a stretch to call seasons 1 and 2 “bottom of the barrel.” You don’t need to be hoodwinked by the D for that
I do think it is a stretch. They are not great, maybe not even very good (I think they’re fine, but I see people’s point) — but bottom of the barrel? Really? Did we all just forget what true garbage television is all of a sudden? Perspective, people.
Honestly, that’s just hyperbole from bitter fans because it wasn’t good, and anyone who says that isn’t worth paying attention to.
I guess the perspective and context is key. I’d go to bat for someone calling them the worst Trek properties, but not the worst TV out there.
I think they fell very short of a lot of folks’ expectations, and that’s a part of the measure, too. If you’re hoping for, and think you’re going to get, the very best, and you get something that’s mediocre, I think you’ll feel more disappointment than if you expect something that’s fine, and get something bad.
I still don’t think they’re the worst Trek, not by a longshot. There’s still TNG Season 1 and TAS, both of which are almost entirely unwatchable.
PIC’s first two years, while a slog at times, still have good performances, and plenty of good moments throughout, compelling themes, and some really fascinating ideas, even if they’re executed poorly.
TNG S1 by contrast is rarely interesting, the acting is wooden and terrible, and even the themes and ideas are mostly cringe-inducing — on top of it being poorly executed. The only reason to watch is out of curious fascination with where TNG started.
I don’t know if one can readily compare episodic TNG season 1 with serialized Picard 2 according to the same criteria. Yes, TNG took a while to find its overall ethos and characterizations, but Picard 2’s overall arc was almost totally incoherent and nonsensical.
Yes, you can, Elrond. Your comment is incoherent and nonsensical. You didn’t even respond to anything I actually said. Kudos on that.
You compared two tv series without reckoning at all with their different natures as episodic vs serialized. The fact that in your subjective opinion that is irrelevant to your assessment does not make my expectation that a serialized show be logically consistent incoherent or nonsensical.
I’m just going to facepalm at you Elrond because that’s all your insipid logic deserves.
TNG S1 is, unquestionably, some of the weakest Trek out there. And I agree that some of it is pretty unwatchable now (looking at you Code of Honor).
I did up a rather complicated spreadsheet where I gave each series and movie a score from 1-5 across 8 categories. Entertainment, Writing, Characters, Production Value, Consistency, Comedy, Drama, and Cringe. It then takes a weighted average of the scores (based on how much I value each of the elements) and spits out a number. Of the 22 entries I put in (I skipped TAS because, well, TAS, and PRO because I haven’t watched more than 1 episode), Picard fell to the bottom.
Looking back on it, and thinking on your comments, I think I should add both an “Ideas” and “Rewatchability” metric, and break each constituent show into seasons. Ideally I’d actually use the same metric for every episode of each season, get a season score, and then use that to derive show scores… but even my spreadsheet-loving ADHD has its limits.
That’s interesting, but I just can’t see how any reasonable person would look at Picard Season 1 and think “the worst thing Trek has ever done” when Season 1 of TNG exists.
I think it may be in the difference between expectations and results. TNG S1 is pretty cringe, but still feels distinctly like Star Trek. The same types of stories that GR wanted to tell, but in glorious 1980s fashion. PIC S1, in contrast is a lot less cringe, but kind of feels like a meandering mess, like it didn’t have much to say other than “robots are people, too” which had already been done before in the franchise, and done better.
Picard gave us that android uprising on Mars, though. Where some workers are murdered by an android called F-8. People are killed by F8. By Fate. Then Fate shoots itself in the head. I can’t look at the writing choices of that season as being significantly better than TNG S1. Maybe not worse, but not better. A different kind of bad.
I’d rather meandering mess with good acting and thought-provoking ideas than pure cringe. But hey, as I like to say… you do you.
I’d much prefer the synth uprising plot to almost any episode of Season 1 of TNG. I don’t even find it that bad a plot. To me, the weakness of that season was that it was too many individual plot threads woven together and nothing tied up well.
They really should have been a two-parter about the Synths, a three-parter about the xBs, a three parter about the Romulans, and a final two parter that tied it all together.
I would happily rewatch season 1 of TNG again over season 1 of Picard. In fact I know that because I did a grand rewatch of every show back in 2021 and didn’t have a big of a problem with season one of TNG like I thought I would. But for Picard, it was OK until the second half and then I just wanted to shut it off because it was going nowhere good. And that’s the difference between episodic TV and serialized TV.
And to this day, the season one finale of TNG is actually one of my favorites. The season one finale of PIC is easily one of my worst.
So, about that spinoff…
Absolutely, more than anything, ANYTHING, I want to see a Star Trek: Legacy show, set in the 25th Century with some of these very characters, show runner, creative team and writers. Fast track this shit please!!! The third session of Picard is a revelations 100%. Also fast track the Blu-Ray and 4k disk release of this session with all the extras. I’m talking about an extended director’s cut for each episode, remastering with better lighting and sound, deleted scenes, a blooper real, all the ready room stuff… give it too me good! I hope Paramount and Paramount+ knows what gold that have here.
If it comes to pass I really hope it doesn’t fall into pure nostalgia.
I don’t mind fan service at all, or nostalgia, but it’s got to be in addition to great writing and a strong story (like the first half of the season), not in place of it (like the second half, and in particular episode 9).
I don’t agree about episode 9, like at all. I think it’s amazing. But I do agree that strong and original writing is more important than anything with Star Trek. That for sure has to be Paramount (pun intended lol)
I think you’ve got your nostalgia goggles on. Ep 9 isn’t bad, it’s just not great. Yet people are calling it the best episode of Trek ever. It currently sits at 9.5 on IMDb, making it literally the best rated episode in the franchise.
All because of the final scene, people got so weak at the knees fangasming that they can’t see straight.
It’s not even the best episode of the season, and is pretty average if you ask me.
I found episode 9 not great. Too much was by the numbers. Plot, internal logic and pacing sacrificed for nostalgia.
Many are asking why the big reveal wasn’t done in episode 8, such that many important plot points and character questions seem never likely to be answered satisfactorily if at all.
After all the criticism of the earlier seasons of Picard or Discovery doing this sort of thing, I have to ask why these sorts of things are getting a pass.
Not only was it buy the numbers, it was borderline exposition dump. It wasn’t terribly exciting, original, well-written, or even well-acted, to be honest. Some of the plot was head scratching, and it strikes me now that so much of the season was just putting pieces in place to get to that Enterprise-D moment.
I really do wonder what perception would be if that final scene wasn’t there, or if they’d gone aboard any old random ship, and not the E-D.
Either way, kudos to them because it worked and everyone is creaming their pants over it. I guess they realized that member-berries really are all people want.
I agree as well TG47. I definitely liked episode 9 overall but yeah it had problems for sure; the pacing being one. In fact I remember telling you how I thought they should’ve just revealed what was behind the door at the end of episode 8. And seeing what we got, I have no idea why they just didn’t do it OTHER than to stall for time basically. But that image of the Borg should’ve been the last shot of episode 8.
I just realized I never actually wrote a review for episode 9 lol. I was so over taken seeing the Enterprise D again, I didn’t even discuss anything else on the thread.
But I don’t think it’s getting a pass at all. All my favorite Star Trek YouTubers, at least the ones I watched for this episode, has criticized their issues with it. If you watch Jessie Gender, she has been the biggest gusher of this season, but basically slammed episode 9 . And a lot of people agreed with her. But yes also many people LOVED it too. It gave them a lot of things they wanted to see again in Star Trek. I know the whole Borg thing is really tired for a lot of people, but there are just as many excited to see them back.
Again, it’s not all binary. You can love something while still pointing out its issues. I do that all the time lol; this episode included. I completely understand why some thought it sucked. I also understand why others loved it. Fans are not a monolith and Picard season 3 is doing more right than wrong and after two dreadful seasons it will still get more praise even when its not perfect.
It’s currently the highest rated Trek episode of ALL TIME on IMDb. I know it’s day 1, but seriously, that’s the ridiculousness of fans we’re dealing with.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m more like you: I thought it was OK. I didn’t love it, I don’t think it’s bad, and I did feel the emotional ending. But I just can’t believe how easily manipulated people are by them recreating the Enterprise-D.
I’ll say this: people should stop being mad at Discovery. If not for Discovery, and how “different” it was, they never would have reacted this strongly to this episode — and the season — if you ask me. I think a lot of the overwhelming positivity is because of how frustrated people were by Discovery and the first two seasons of Picard.
As it turns out, fans don’t want anything new, they just want the old, no matter how much they protest to want something new.
Naah Discovery still blows! Just an awful show all around and why very few people are shedding a tear it got cancelled.
If they decided not to run season 5 I really don’t think most will lose any sleep over it.
It is hilarious this episode is the highest rated of all time though. 😂
I loved this episode too but damn! Bringing back the Enterprise D is probably what did it. Matalas is a genius! He knows what the fan base wants! 🖖
LOL I won’t lie, I cried when I saw the Enterprise D. I broke down. I did NOT expect to be so overwhelmed by it, especially because we all knew it was coming. The last time I cried over something in Star Trek was in STID, but not in a good way lol.
All jokes aside, it’s a bit nuts that this episode is so highly rated but I can see why obviously. I highly doubt it’s going to stay that high as people calm down and watch later. But you threw in everyone standing on the Enterprise D again, that alone is going to make it very special for a lot of fans out there.
I definitely choked up too man. It was very emotional and I didn’t even start watching TNG until I was in my 20s. For people whose show was their childhood I can’t imagine what that moment brought for them.
Well, you’ve lost all credibility, TG. Discovery doesn’t “blow” — I don’t like it, but it has legions of fans who are all sad it’s gone.
Frankly, it was a big success, got 5 seasons, and is now getting a spin-off. And let’s face it, if it hadn’t existed, you and all the other whiny little crybabies wouldn’t have nearly as much to complain about.
Just to clarify, that was the other TG – 1701 – who is relatively newer here, although a longtime voice elsewhere.
I think it blows. You can certainly disagree though. If you like it, I’m not trying to disrespect your opinion, I’m only giving you mine.
I love Lower Decks, but many people think that show blows too. That’s their opinion, I respect that and totally get why. I don’t get triggered over it. 😂
And I think the show is pretty bad. And lots of bad shows stay on the air man. This is not the first one.
LOL yeah. This is why I enjoy talking to people like you and less to people like AlphaPredator. You understand how message boards works. You’re very honest about your opinion but I have never seen you (or most people here frankly) get upset or bitter when others say things about shows or movies you happen to like. Not once.
I’m the same way. I love DS9. It’s my favorite show. But I understand others hate it. No, it’s not hated like Discovery lol, but believe it or not, there are still people even today who doesn’t view that show as ‘real’ Star Trek and says so. That’s fine, it’s their opinion. Same for every other show or movie I like. I been a VOY fan just as long and people still hate that show too and says so. Again, completely understandable. I happen to love both. But they are still just TV shows, none of it really matters. You don’t need to sound like a baby over it when someone says something mean about them.
But people like this, they are too thin skinned and argumentative to the point they want to either insult you or censor you just because you think a TV show or a movie sucks. Well that’s their problem, not ours. And then they are shocked when you don’t want to talk to them lol. I don’t need that in my life, period.
This is why we need an ignore button here.
To be fair, it’s perfectly reasonable to see the dramatic flaws in Discovery and earlier Picard and still be won over by what this season is doing.
The writing is not perfect. Just as with season 2 Picard and season 4 of Disco, the overall story arc was stretched out too long by bottle episodes. When we were getting episodes like No Win Scenario it didn’t matter, but eventually the trick of reuniting us with a TNG character stopped compensating for remedial development for Vadic, the Changelings, Raffi, and the new bridge crew I should feel for now more than I do. Jack’s relationship with his father started off well but got subsumed by the Mystery Box of his Borg connection – somehow simultaneously not set up properly and also played out for far too long. Expository dialogue has been rough for the whole season. The idea of having Starfleet commandeered in this manner is far far too similar to what the animated series just did in their most recent finales. The Borg are overused after two seasons of not really living up to their potential, and the idea of a team-up between them and the Changelings is reduced to clunky exposition, a degrading of the shapeshifters into mere henchmen, and those scraps of Vadic’s “handphone” chats. An epic team up that DS9, TNG or even Voyager would have delved more deeply into has little hope of being well developed with only one episode left to go.
But through it all, I still think it’s working. The updates to our TNG characters have been better thought out for the most part than what we got before. Season 1 of Picard was obsessed with returning characters being miserable and coping with extreme trauma. Now, character voices honed over 176+ episodes and 4 movies largely still ring true and sparkle (it can never go without saying that Riker is friggin’ fantastic and Frakes has never been so wonderful on camera), Seven has been better used, and Jack and Shaw have memorable personalities. There was a struggle to get the new characters in Picard’s first seasons to shine, and just about everyone not named Saru, Tilly, or Kovich on Discovery these days talks and acts exactly the same.
The nostalgia factor is huge and it’s difficult to set it aside and be dispassionate, and there have been some Easter eggs that even I find to be a bit much. At the same time though, this is still a Star Trek drama which runs on fans’ passion and reverence. We get to see beloved characters’ lives as they are reunited over 20 years after Nemesis ended things on a mixed note. The Enterprise D is back, Ro came back in a way which served the story arc and Picard’s struggles to be a good paternal figure, the relationships of the TNG crew make sense, the show is dark without being oppressive, the humor works far better than on any new live action Trek show besides perhaps SNW’s, the music is familiar but memorable, big, and cinematic, the VFX are fun and include lingering shots of ships, the chutzpah of basically saying the old generation is the only one equipped to save the day is goofy fun.
At the end of the day, this is a show that I never wanted to be so dispassionate about, because that doesn’t actually bring me much pleasure, which is entirely the point of entertainment and Star Trek as a whole. Nostalgia is a legitimate emotional entry point and the fundamentals have been good enough around it that I can just sit back and enjoy this ridiculous and comforting show about geriatric space adventurers saving the Galaxy. That is a gift, and I am very grateful for it.
I didn’t read all of that because I have things to do this morning, but you’re right about Discovery: it has plenty of dramatic flaws. But my point is how the fandom turned on it and PIC S1&2 so violently when it was undeserved (again, proportional to its quality).
So my point is, if it wasn’t for those disappointments, i’m not sure the response to this Season probably would have been so overwhelmingly positive.
That said, I think it’s curious how many fans who were ready to jump ship last week are now calling this the best season in Trek history, all because it made them weep like babies because their old ENT-D is back.
I would genuinely love to see what the opinion of the episode and the season would have been if that final scene had been saved for the opening of next week’s finale. Because I’d wager every penny I have that it would not be that good.
I don’t think you are wrong that multiple seasons of different but uneven Disco and Picard informed the warm critical reception of this season (and I’d say SNW as well). But I don’t really think there’s much point in trying to undercut the reaction people are having with a hypothetical we can never answer about the way this episode was edited.
Also, thank you for taking the time to reply to my message and reiterate your point, but honestly you didn’t need to mention that you didn’t read the rest of my reply. I’d have been none the wiser.
The reason I mentioned that is that I didn’t want you to think I was willfully ignoring it.
I know sometimes it can be annoying when someone responds to just the first point made in a long post and overlooks everything else.
Thank you for the clarification, I appreciate it.
Agreed with all of that Ian. I think you nailed it and why this season is such a huge success among fans even with its flaws.
And frankly after the disastrous two seasons. some of the worst Star Trek out there, if they had Picard just playing poker with the crew for an episode, it was probably going to win people over lol.
I’m grateful for everything they did this season as well.
Well, my spouse spouse caught up with me tonight.
Their reaction to the reveal was a satisfied “Yes, the Borg! It had to be the Borg to conclude Picard’s story.”
So, there’s that. It was the right choice to conclude the arc of that character.
It’s just we’ve had two seasons of Borg already. For those who are just joking in to watch this season, it hits quite differently.
I agree, I think for most people, they are excited to see the Borg again, the true Borg. I’m one of them like your wife.
But yeah, I can also admit it does a feel a little tiring when we already had them appear for the third straight time on this show. Not to mention they showed up on Prodigy as well and a few holodeck versions of them on LDS.
But it’s such a weird conundrum because the Borg are highly highly popular. That’s why they keep showing up, all these people running these new shows are fanboys themselves, hence why they keep throwing them in. I know people say they are sick of them but I guarantee you episodes 9 and 10 are going to be the most watched and highly rated episodes of this show a year from now because of their presence.
You put the Borg in, you get butts in the seat, period. I STILL wish Star Trek Beyond could’ve went more left field and put the Borg in the movie instead of another forgetful uber-villain out for revenge. You would’ve heard the same moans about it, but it would’ve been the highest grossing Kelvin movie easily lol. All the fans who stayed home would’ve went and saw it in the theaters. And I liked Beyond, but it needed a real hook. A $200 million Borg story would’ve been that hook.
A JJ verse Borg movie could’ve been amazing. And stop Beyond from being a dud at the box office. Trekkies would’ve been really excited. 😎👍
But then it’s still JJ verse. Kirk would’ve just played Sabotage and the cube would’ve self destructed or something. 🙄
Seriously if Michael Bay directed those movies what would’ve been different about them?
Taking that question at face value, Michael Bay hasn’t been good with character in decades. Abrams and Lin at least knew how to keep the characters compelling, I’m sure their notes on the script were more thoughtful than Bay’s would have been.
Well definitely more explosions if that was possible lol. And maybe a role for Mark Wahlberg. :)
The best (though certainly not ONLY) way to avoid this, I think, is to flip it into episodic. Telling one long story invites nostalgia humping to fill in the story gaps. Too much filler time. I think Strange New Worlds worked as well as it did because they had to come up with endings! Season-long stories compel the writers to focus on cliffhangers — big difference. And I don’t think there are many writer groups out there that can do single-season stories that still have meaningful substories or arcs within them a la Better Caul Saul or For All Mankind, or even The Expanse, because those are exceptional examples of the form and not usually what a network wants from a streaming show (which is why a lot of streaming shows are just sludge).
Totally agree. I would love it if this season had been episodic. SNW is light years better for it.
I agree as well, the next show should be more episodic. I honestly think that’s why both Lower Decks and SNW are so popular today, people like having more individual stories again. And while I am loving this season of Picard overall, it probably should’ve been 8 episodes as the latter half has been dragging.
But that’s not me complaining, not at all lol. The season is hands down pretty great, but yes it still has some issues with the serialized format and dragging things out again. But thankfully not at the tedious level of season 2 or seasons 3 and 4 of Discovery. Unlike all those seasons, I haven’t nearly fallen asleep once. ;)
Prodigy successfully did a serialized season.
They however had their biggest reveal mid season and didn’t draw out the mystery. Instead, they gave time for the implications to settle and for the ensemble to struggle together towards the solution.
No reason why a live action Trek season couldn’t use that template.
Well, there’s the exception that virtually proves the rule, and those episodes have half the runtime of a typical live action episode and they’re for children; but also, Prodigy eps have heaps of fan service and nostalgia humping! My comment was speaking to the idea that the best way — though not only — way to avoid Legacy devolving into another nostalgia mess is to do more single story episodes.
Prodigy was actually good though.
Picard and Discovery has been a poorly written tedious affair. Picard season 3 is good only because like Prodigy they found someone who knows what they are doing and did an amazing serialized show in the past with 12 Monkeys.
But I agree too I prefer to see more standalone stories. I love DS9 and Enterprise serialized stories but they also had better writers and more episodes to still do standalone stories too.
But I trust Matalas. If he gets another show and it’s still serialized, then no issues with me. 🙂
Be wary. If he doesn’t give you the Enterprise D, you probably won’t like it!
Why are you always so nasty on this board man? You understand you have to accept not everyone is going to agree with you.
You shouldn’t be nasty to others over it.
See that’s where you’re wrong. I don’t give two flying trucks if anyone agrees with me!
B5 did it quite well
I’m so compelled by the untold Enterprise E story that I would love to see a follow-up story in that spinoff! There is just mountains of great material to use following this season of Picard.
Because it’s far better written then all the other media since 2017. Matalas and the older Trek vets like Drexler, Okuda etc have done a great job and has respected canon (both narratively and visually) Something the DIS writers never did. Is it perfect? Hell no! Is it the best live action Trek anything since Ent: Terra Prime? Absolutely.
Not nearly as well written as SNW, heck, i’d say the back half is thusfar not as well written as Prodigy. The first half is GOLD, the second is weak. You people are just happy that you’ve got your Enterprise-D and are having trouble seeing anything else.
Just wondering… The show is called “Picard” and all along Matalas has said he wanted to give the TNG crew a proper send off, so given that, if you were showrunner would you have made the choice NOT to show the Enterprise-D at all? For better or worse, I just think there’s a certain nostalgic expectation built into this season’s premise…
In honestly, I would have ignored the Enterprise-D entirely, yes.
If anything, the Enterprise-E should have still been in service, and Shaw could have been the captain of THAT ship.
Look, at the end of the day, i’m not really down on the return to the D. I can’t deny it is great to see and emotionally resonant. What is frustrating is how it’s been used to manipulate the audience. Much of the fans on this board had been down on the season over the last few weeks — criticizing elements that weren’t that bad — but are now gushing in their pants because of the Enterprise, while completely ignoring legitimate story problems.
Despite my generally being a Matalas fan.
When I think how many great, coherent and faithful stories with legacy characters have been told in the Trek Litverse since Nemesis, seeing folks gush over this unoriginal season is very lowering.
All the more when the people doing it are so disrespectful of the efforts of Discovery, Short Treks, and Strange New Worlds to give us some glorious and gorgeous costume and production designs.
While I appreciate that Fuller set up Discovery with initial sets that did not meet visual canon, Tamara Deverell ( who took over mid season one), Philip Barker and Doug McCullough did incredible work, and have given us new worlds that actually look different than the same old foam rocks.
Agreed! Respecting canon is very important for most fans although just writing a good show will always (or at least should) be #1.
I don’t think Discovery ever did the latter but has been closer to the former since leaving the 23rd century IMO.
I don’t think it’s even close to the quality of writing we saw in strange new worlds last year, but I am liking this season.
Your comment about discovery not having Trek vets is false given Brian Fuller was a Star Trek veteran and the whole thing was his concept, and he even wrote the premier screenplay. If you’re going to make broad statements like that, please make sure your Star Trek production history comments are correct.
They actually made a Star Trek show. And it was popular.
Yes, just like they did last year, the year before, and the year before that! Amazing!
Also worth noting that Nielsen’s streaming tracking wasn’t around until 2021, and then didn’t track Paramount until late last year, from what I understand.
Yep, give the fans want they want and its GOOD and they will happily turn out for it. This season is proving that in spades.
I applaud your obtuse response!
Go away. You’re annoying.
Well, for those who liked this, apparently we’re in for more of it. My sincere congrats. :-)
Feel the same.
I’ll watch, but I hope that there are fewer what my spouse has labeled ‘cringey’ overdrawn out moments in the new show.
Make good Star Trek, and it will sell! Maybe this will send a message to Paramount about replacing Kurtzman.
Umm, Kurtzman is responsible for all current Trek (good or bad in your opinion). He is just as much responsible for PIC S3 as any future Paramount Trek overseer would be responsible for shows under their reign. PIC S3 is not just a success for Matalas, it is also a success for Kurtzman. Sure it was Matalas’ vision, but Kurtzman put him in charge as showrunner. That’s how this works.
Why? He oversaw it. Kurtzman will get some of the credit.
He didn’t really do anything though. Matalas came up with the idea and then wrote, produced and directed parts of the season.
This was clearly his baby.
Kurtzman sounds like he just said OK to it but then smartly stayed the hell out the way.
And yet Matalas was his choice to join the series, and wisely gave him leeway on this season. As an executive producer, he deserves credit for those decisions.
You’re confusing the executive producer and show runner roles. Kurtzman is an executive producer, his role is to hire the show runners to, you know, run the shows. If you’re happy with Matalas’ work as showrunner, it was Kurtzman who put him in that role.
But Kurtzman was definitely more hands on with this show in its first season. I think it was obvious why because it was so important to them to get the show on the air. But third season even Matalas said he was nowhere around because he was in London making another TV show. So Matalas basically made all the decisions he wanted with no pushback. But yes they obviously trusted him to do it.
This should bode well for Star Trek Legacy!!
But I knew once fans totally got behind this season in its praise of it, that would already be a big factor. But to see it being paid off in actual ratings will make it harder to ignore. Picard season 3 is without a doubt a hit.
On RT, Picard season 3 currently has an audience score of 89%. That’s the highest score of every single modern Star Trek show currently. Second place is a tie between SNW season 1 and LDS season 3. They are both at 80%. What makes this even more eye opening is that Picard season 3 actually holds the same score TNG holds overall, which is also 89%.
They would be nuts to ignore where all of this can go next; especially with a very excited (and united ;)) fan base begging for more.
Wow to see actual ratings numbers is pretty impressive. I can only guess what the finale will draw. I am sure P+ execs will be happy and they will demand more!
I am sure the cast and crew is also pleased!
Yeah, now I see why they decided to have those IMAX screenings. They knew what they had and that fans were going to go nuts over it. So to burrow a Trump the insurrectionist phrase, next week is going to be huuuuuuuge! ;D
I suspect that Picard will be HUUUUGGEEE in the news next Thursday!
Normally I would say no but if we rallied for SNW and got it then who knows???
The Next Generation was the biggest Star Trek show when it left TV in the 90s.
Nearly 30 years later, The Next Generation is the biggest Star Trek show once again.
You can not doubt the popularity of this cast and Matalas clearly knew that enough to make it happen. Take a bow Matalas, you clearly earned it!
Lets be cautious about the narrative here.
We don’t actually know it’s the biggest Star Trek show Tiger2.
Nielsen only started getting data on Paramount+ a couple of weeks before Picard season premiered.
SNW had similar rankings in other metrics at the same point in the season. We’ll need to see what numbers it gets in season two for comparison.
What we do know is that Picard has a lot more entertainment, mainstream and social media chatter. Matalas can take a now for a lot of that because he personally got out there months before the premiere and drummed up interest. Myers and Goldsman need to step up their game to get the same Q.
LOL don’t over think it dude! I’m only saying the obvious, when you bring back characters/actors from a highly acclaimed hit show, it shouldn’t be a shock it would be a hit show again if you do it right.
People have been wanting more TNG for 20 years now. Yes, Nemesis was a stinker but it didn’t mean people no longer wanted more TNG or 24th century Star Trek just like people still wanted more TOS even after TFF was a stinker. It’.s so narrow minded so-called fans stated that, as if one bad movie is going to wipe away the millions of fans who watched these characters endlessly
And obviously I wouldn’t be shocked if SNW is doing as well because yeah its exactly like Picard is, ie, more nostalgia bait and legacy characters in a pretty good season overall. And especially as you and I have said it’s basically just a TOS prequel show starring Pike. And that’s for a reason, the same reason the TNG cast is back and probably the same reason Prodigy will lean more towards Voyager in its second season as well.
Fans want their comfort food. People want more TOS and TNG era stuff. Up until now, LDS and SNW was the biggest comfort food in that regard (and why it’s so brilliant to cross over those shows). And not a shock why they BOTH have 80% audience score on RT. Picard S3 now tops both of those at 89%. So it’s clearly working lol.
Picard probably tops those shows a bit more, especially SNW, because it’s not just bringing back legacy characters, but obviously the original actors as well. That’s always going to trump other factors. Yes they are on LDS too, but in animated form and solely as guest stars. And now they got their glorious Enterprise D back in its purest form after 29 years, so none of this is a surprise.
CBS (finally) knows what it’s doing with these shows.
You know what you say about nostalga is right! I bought the blu ray SNW S1 (the first DVDs I have bought in years) and they included the 1966 TOS episode Balance of Terror in it so you could watch both it and A Quality of Mercy for comparison… brilliant! I expect we will see more nostalga next week on the finale, although I am not sure how the TNG gang is going to get out of this mess. I also suspect they will greenlight Star Trek Legacy.
I am rambling here but…. I know I prefer episodic tv, but Picard S3 has done a great job with 2 or 3 mini arcs contained in a serialized season long story. Maybe serielized story telling can work for nuTrek afterall.
Btw, from the sounds of things the only way Kurtzman was ever going to get Sir Patrick to comeback was to NOT make a TNG comeback show. After a mixed S1 and an atrociously horrible S2, thank goodness that he gave the showrunner reigns to Matalas while bringing in legacy crew like the Okudas and voila…. they have a great TNG comeback show. Kudos to Kurtzman for taking the heat about the dog’s breakfast called S2 and to a certain extent S1 and for bringing in writers and people that understand nostalgia and how it can be used to make a show a winner.
Wow that’s cool they actually included BoT as well although I’m sure every Trekkie who still buys DVDs has like three other copies lol.
But nostalgia works. It was the reason people even wanted a SNW show which was basically the same reason people wanted a Picard show, to ultimately end up on the Enterprise again and have more TOS/TNG characters show up. And we got plenty for both of them now. When Kirk showed up in season one it told you everything lol. But they know ultimately fans want nostalgia.
I mean people did accept the fact Picard was no longer in Starfleet in season one because we were told that’s what Stewart wanted. But even then many people assumed the Enterprise E would arrive with Worf or Riker to save the day lol. I never doubted we would eventually see the entire TNG cast eventually because that’s what everyone wanted including Paramount.
But is a great irony though Patrick Stewart was so against a reunion show of any kind. He didn’t even want Picard on any starships. And now look where we are, the guy is back around all his old co-workers sitting on the bridge of Enterprise D giving orders. Even in my biggest fanboy fantasies of what I thought this season could be like it never once hit me any of that could happen. I mean I can only imagine how much they had to talk him up to do it. He’s even back with Data, the character they killed off again for the second time two seasons ago and Spiner made clear he never wanted to play fully again. Matalas must have worked his magic to do a lot of convincing, but I bet all of them think it was totally worth it now. It certainly seem that way for the audience.
But this season was made with pure love, you can obviously tell that. Even if some still don’t like it, many still love to see so many people back from the old days both in front of and behind the camera. For me, I’ve always said I didn’t need a single TNG era character back including Picard himself for a post-Nemesis show and would’ve been happy as long as it was good. I just got tired of prequels and wanted to go forward again like so many others. But the fanboy in me is super happy what we got this season and I’m excited with ever direction they go next with the 25th century.
Completely agree! 👍
I’m a fan and I want fan service. I don’t know why that’s such a dirty word for some people. For me the more fan service the better as long as it’s done right.
And to me it’s all been done right this season because the people making it understands it. That’s why people want Matalas to take over because he gets it.
I don’t just mean giving us more TNG he gets Star Trek period like McMahan gets it and the Hageman brothers gets it. I’m so happy all these guys are making Trek today but Matalas especially has the chance to make 25tg century Trek exciting even with brand new characters. Why so many love Shaw.
I would happily watch a spinoff with him and Seven alone.
“For me the more fan service the better as long as it’s done right.”
You hit it on the head. Most fans are fine with fan service AS LONG AS its done right. That’s all that really matters, how well they execute it. I do believe people when they say they don’t want more old characters or want to do something new. I don’t doubt that at all and feel exactly like they do. It’s actually why I am for the Academy show. They can do something radically different and in an era where Picard, Kirk or Janeway can’t show up in. But I wouldn’t fight it if they did lol. But yeah, even for that it has to be pulled off well or will suck and feel cheap.
That’s why things like TATV, Generations and STID are hated by so many fans because these were all meant to be fan service stories but they were executed so badly (and TATV is the worst of these three IMO) it did the opposite and put fans off to it. But then you have tons of the opposite examples where fans gobbled it up like TWOK, Trials and Tribble-ations, In a Mirror Darkly, Relics, etc. And you have so many great examples of the newer stuff like Quality of Mercy, Kobayashi, Hear All, Trust Nothing and nearly every minute of Picard season 3 lol.
Most fans REALLY want fan service and nostalgia, just done right. That’s just the reality. And it’s not a Star Trek thing alone obviously.
You’re asking me not to overthink it?!!
Dude, Tiger2, we’ve been chatting at each other for like 5 years now and you have to know that ‘not overthinking’ isn’t in me. lol
LOL well I certainly overthink things all the time as you know. In this instance I’m only saying the show is still really popular but it shouldn’t be any doubt considering how many people still adore TNG today. But I also think Picard’s season 1 and 2 had a large audience but probably not as big once word of mouth settled on them.
Well said bro! TNG is back on top 30 years later! 😂
Yeah, it’s great to see! Especially when its done right.
The greats never die!!!
TNG was one of the biggest shows period in S7. It was like a miracle. It was a first run syndicated show and in it’s series finale network affiliates around the US dropped airing prime time shows to air All Good Things. It was nominated for outstanding dramatic series. I’ve heard it wasn’t the first but when I was a kid it was the first time I ever saw that happen! And Star Trek Generations made the money it did not even slightly because it was a good movie but because it was the return of TNG. Even more so than Kirk meets Picard.
I think TNG’s popularity never went away, people just accepted they may not see these characters again in new things (at least not with the original actors) but the show still remained very popular, hence Picard. That was obvious to me being on places like Facebook and Reddit. And no Generations wasn’t great but it was still an exciting time to see them on the big screen and have Picard meet Kirk. But I sooo wish they could’ve done so many different things with it.
And while I don’t think it’s in the cards yet, I wouldn’t be totally surprised if we got another TNG movie in the future. Paramount seems beyond clueless what to do with the movies next, they may decide to go that direction with all the hype of this season.
Well TNG and VOY were snoozefests but Picard S3 showed it could be good done TOS movie style. Berman Trek is dead, long live Matalas TNG and Star Trek Strange New Worlds. I am loving S3 and Strange New Worlds!!!
Always thought Picard was compromised, they turned that into an awesome story!!!
I think you have it where the new fleet is toast and Starfleet has to rebuild with a bunch of Titan A neo Constitutions. Have it where faith in the fleet is low given all the destruction brought on by the service being compromised.
Or could have it where the assimilated fleet or Dominion are still out there and planning on hitting another galaxy and the new fleet has to explore to stop them.
The Ent-E is gone, Stargazer-A forgotten, the Ent-G retired, the Titan decommissioned; there is your opening for a TOS movie style continuation. Fleet Admiral Saavik drafted into the service? JTK resurrected?
Just get the Titan-A a new sensible bridge (no doors in the background).
Also I think it’s funny how all those who pushed for more bland VOY type Trek with the argument we must move forward despite it becoming boring – who cares about wanting Starships to be novel, final frontier to be dangerous and unexplored as with the awesome Strange New Worlds totally drop their objections for Titan-A re the Ent G and Discovery in the 30th.
Also happy TNG fans got to figure out Trek music themes rock Vs wallpaper blandness.
I think this is another win for Star Trek as an action adventure story exploring a dangerous frontier Vs Soap opera.
Great to hear!!!! 🙂
Most of us wanted this show to be a TNG revival on day one. Now that we got it and it’s actually good fans are going crazy for it!
TNG is my favorite show and I’m so happy we finally got it back! Judging by the ratings and the pure love over this season I’m not the only one. 👍🖖
Exactly! This is what people wanted on day one so it’s not a shock why there is so much hoopla and praise over it. And I say that NOT loving this season as so many others are. But it is delivering what people have been wanting to see again since All Good Things…
Matalas is going to look like the golden boy of Star Trek for years to come based on this one season alone.
Paramount would be nuts not to want more Terry Trek! He’s making Star Trek and TNG great again!
I’ve watched the episode another two more times and watching BOBW right now. Man Shelby was a spit fire lol. So happy we got to see her again. After that is over, on to First Contact since I couldn’t watch it on First Contact Day. Can’t get enough of the Borg! 😁
They better give us that legacy show! I know we’re getting the 32nd CW Academy show but most fans are dying for the 25th spinoff legacy show! The ratings are proving it!
This is so what I wanted from day 1 too. A great TNG show. But I can’t say this show reminds me of TNG at all. It’s tone and pace and everything is completely different. But good is good and I like good lol.
It doesn’t have to feel exactly the same as long as they got the spirit of the show and the characters right. Season 1 and 2 missed it by a mile IMO. Picard felt like a different character to me.
But now they all feel like the same characters from TNG, simply older. That’s the way it should be done.
Can’t wait for next week and excited to see they confirmed Tuvok will be back. I originally theorized maybe he’s Captain of the Enterprise F but someone else suggested he could be Captain of the Voyager B since it exists now.
That would be awesome! 😁
They don’t have the spirit of the show at all though. Which is fine, I think the first half of the season is some of the best Trek for this crew, but let’s not pretend it’s anything like TNG just because they have the same cast and recreated the old bridge.
The characters are exactly what I thought they would be. This is the TNG I wanted to see in the movies that we never really got outside First Contact and happy to have! 😎🖖
But if you feel differently that’s cool bro.
I don’t think it’s supposed to be a 1:1 recreation of TNG in tone, that’s not really possible to deliver after so much time has passed and the characters have matured. Compared to season 1 and 2 of Picard though, the characters are better written…Picard feels more like I had expected an older Picard would have evolved. It’s spiritually resonant in enough ways that it feels right to me.
Yes also excited to see Tuvok again!
I told you Matalas Trek is Our Future
Really like Matalas’ work but this ‘Terry Trek’ boosterism is everything I divisive I don’t like about the franchise.
To each their own, I’ll take whoever is doing Strange New Worlds and see you on the flip side.
In Germany its the most viewed streaming show in the last week. 1. place. Yeah.
This warms my heart. The last time I saw Trek being honored in such a way was TNG Season 7 being nominated for Outstanding Dramatic Series in the Emmys which is tragically and wrongfully lost.
I have a question for Trekmovie tho… Didn’t Strange New Worlds in it’s first season make like some top record for it’s week too?
It did, but not by this specific metric. I believe it was the most in-demand show at one point, but there were no ratings charts for it.
AHHH! Gotcha. Thank you for the clarification!
It was the most in-demand breakout new show in the spring 2022 Parrot metrics.
This has been as good a season of Star Trek as any good season of Star Trek. I feel burned by Star Trek these last few years, but Lower Decks, SNW and now finally Picard has given hope for the future.
I was ready to give up on Trek altogether until I saw Lower Decks. And amazingly it’s been getting better ever since. This season of Picard has made me especially excited about Trek I haven’t felt since Voyager ended.
The Trek brand probably makes it a safer bet for Paramount to invest in provided costs are kept inline. I’m curious as to what season 3 of Picard cost just in terms of the cast alone. A Legacy spin-off starring Ryan would be more likely to get the go ahead if the “legacy characters” were kept as recurring. Would the fans still be as interested?
Of course i’ll watch as long as its good. But my hope is that, like you say, legacy cast are guest stars or recurring, not the focus of the show. Though I fear, given the response to this season, that they’ll want legacy characters front, center, left, and right, because that’s clearly the draw.
So much for moving forward.
I’m still strongly in favour of Kurtzman’s proposal to have Legacy characters in their own limited series, direct to streaming movies, or one-shots in an anthology (of whatever length makes sense).
I think it’s better for the legacy characters to each have their own stories to shine in.
In whatever era, not just the 25th century.
Yes, I want to see Janeway, Kira and Garak. But also give me a one-shot with Kovich doing his thing in the 32nd century, a prequel with Hemmer, or an even deeper prequel romantic episode showing how Sarek and Amanda got together. Be daring, give us different tones to best show off the characters.
I’d like nonetheless to see Shaw, Seven and the LaForge sisters on Star Trek: Titan travelling around in a ship with an upgraded drive, actually seeing new things in parts of the galaxy in the reaches we’ve never seen. If they occasionally (one episode a season max) have reason for a callback, fine. Just don’t make their story serve the legacy characters. Don’t make them look incompetent to make the legacy characters and actors shine.
If it starred Seven alone I would be through the roof lol.
Ok I read a story this morning that Nielson only counted streaming stats from Amazon Prime and Netflix until earlier this year, but NOW they include ratings for AppleTV+, Disney Plus and Paramount+. If that is so, let’s keep things in perspective.
Picard is still awesome and is a top ten show, but don’t assume it means SNW or any other Trek or Paramount shows have never equalled the Picard ratings.
Picard might have been big of viewers but how many well watch a second time ? are their some show you watch over and over ? well this be one of those or not ?