“Lost In Translation”
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds Season 2, Episode 6 – Debuted Thursday, July 20, 2023
Written by Onitra Johnson & David Reed
Directed by Dan Li
A classic Star Trek story brings a great mix of mystery and heart, adding welcome depth to the show’s characters both familiar and new.
No, uh, I wasn’t smoking anything.
WARNING: Spoilers below!
RECAP
“Welcome to the Enterprise”
The Enterprise has been dispatched to a nebula on the frontier to sort things out with a troublesome deuterium refinery. Pike has been temporarily promoted to Fleet Captain to oversee the station and the USS Farragut and tasks Commander Chin-Riley with deploying her unique “managerial fervor” to get Starfleet’s “shiniest gas station” online. Ensign Uhura is in charge of coordinating communications, but she’s distracted due to a lack of sleep and concerned over a strange (and scary-sounding) signal that only she can hear. She takes it upon herself to do a diagnostic on the communication array inside one of the nacelles, guided by a how-to video from her old mentor. (OMG, Hemmer’s back… kind of. Yay!) Pelia shows up and things are a bit awkward as the new chief engineer senses Hemmer’s former protégé has been avoiding her, the pair finally make official introductions and Uhura heads back to the bridge… only to hear that scary sound again. Oh and zombie Hemmer joins her in the turbolift! Yay?
Dr. M’Benga diagnoses Uhura with sleep deprivation and deuterium poisoning, which explains the visions, and orders her to bed, which only results in more fitful sleep. Meanwhile, Lt. James T. Kirk of the USS Farragut arrives for a visit with his brother Sam. After Jim is done jealously eyeing the Enterprise, the two brothers head to the bar to share some scotch and some daddy issues. Eventually Sam storms off, upset his ambitious younger brother is set to beat dad’s record to become the youngest first officer in fleet history. Showoff. Spock is also in the bar, playing chess with Christine as they debate whether to follow Starfleet’s fraternization protocols; for now, they decide to be guided by quantum mechanics and see where the universe takes this new thing of theirs. Uhura shows up to channel her inner Benny Russell with logic that proves her visions are not poison-induced, but the new couple is too self-absorbed to offer any help, so Nyota turns to the bar for solace. Lt. Kirk takes notice and starts up a convo, but she isn’t in the mood. He vows he’s not hitting on her, but Uhura still makes it clear she is “not in the market for friends right now” anyway and makes a hasty exit, only to be hit with the worst vision yet: a corridor filled with dead bodies except for a version of herself who attacks. Delivering an impressive right hook, Uhura takes down her doppelganger only to snap out of the vision and realize she just gave Jim Kirk a bloody nose. Oops.
Welcome to another episode of ShipTalkw with Hemmer.
“Right now death is winning”
Over on the deuterium station, Una and Pelia are not getting along, bickering over the source of all the malfunctions. A dismissed Pelia disobeys orders and discovers the real problem… sabotage. Or is that sabataage? As they search the spooky station—Una’s pissed Pelia hasn’t fixed the lights—they find a huddled, mumbling Starfleet officer who lashes out, questioning if the Enterprise officers are “real.” Oh boy. On the Enterprise, instead of getting Uhura in trouble, Kirk let her fix his nose with her personal dermal regenerator and agrees she isn’t crazy. He leaves her to rest, but she’s disrupted by a red alert that sends her to the bridge only to see the ship in a losing battle and the bridge crew sucked into space through a hull breach… but then not, because actually, they are all fine. Taking her aside, Pike tries to understand what is going on with his troubled communications officer and friend. Luckily, her new pal arrives with a clue. Greeting the Fleet Captain (and ticking that off his canon checklist), Jim says the Farragut’s doctor has spotted a pattern shared by Uhura and sabotage guy who is still freaking out in sickbay and has significant brain damage to his speech center. After attempting to stab Dr. M’Benga, he escapes—claiming none of this is real. This guy needs to chill.
Pike orders teams to fan out to find Ramon who quickly gets back to his sabotage business, starting with Enterprise’s power conduits. Things get even spookier when Pike finds a dead officer and a blood trail leading to engineering. Kirk and Uhura try to help the search, but the auditory screams in Uhura’s head send her back to sickbay. On her way, she follows a blood trail to a nacelle control room and discovers Ramon, who ignores her attempts to convince him she is a real person and blows a hole in the ship, almost taking Uhura with him, but she’s saved at the last minute by a quick-thinking Kirk. Uhura is tasked by Pike to find clues in Ramon’s log, but all of this is too much for her and she breaks down, revealing to Kirk she has been barely holding it together since Hemmer’s sacrifice, which brought back issues that began with the death of her parents in a shuttle accident. Her future captain gives it to her straight: Facing death is part of the job, so if she wants to be in Starfleet, she needs to dig deep and fight it. With wisdom imparted, Kirk exits in search of fresh cookies, leaving Uhura seeking comfort in another Hemmer video lesson, which turns her frown upside down… and gives her an idea! He’s the best.
Watch where you put that phaser, mister.
“They are screaming for our help.”
Hemmer’s video guide warning about burning out the subspace antenna has Uhura sorting out that someone must be trying to communicate telepathically with her (and Ramon), but the signal strength is burning out their brain receivers—hence the visions, etc. Kirk arrives (with a cookie), and after hearing about invisible alien messages, he realizes they need Sam’s help. The Enterprise’s xenoanthropologist picks up on the theory and together they work out how extradimensional lifeforms must be living on the deuterium in the nebula and have been trying to use Uhura as a universal translator. The scary visions are the aliens’ way of saying they feel trapped and the processing is torturing and killing their loved ones. Oops. Uhura calls the captain to tell him not to activate the station, but it’s too late. Even with more bickering (that includes Una calling Pelia a “space hippie”), they’ve already gotten the processor operating and now they can’t shut it down. Zombie Hemmer is not pleased.
On the bridge, Uhura pushes through the visions to convince Pike they have things wrong: This frontier outpost isn’t helping seek out new life, it’s destroying it. Even though only she can see it, the captain buys in, taking her suggestion to evacuate the station and vent all collected deuterium. The ensign even gets to give the order to torpedo the station, destroying the alien torture chamber. Zombie Hemmer is replaced with a vision of healthy Hemmer, smiling, indicating the invisible aliens are happy. Pike’s willing to take any heat from Starfleet and jokes he can blame the “brash” influence of Lt. Kirk, who suggests Uhura might get a medal for discovering a new life form. With everyone in a good mood, even Una and Pelia bury the hatchet, finally sorting out the first officer was also having issues dealing with Hemmer’s death and the new engineer (with all her quirky differences) was a constant reminder of loss. In the bar, Uhura is now able to share some nice family memories and photos with Kirk. The brothers Kirk also do some hatchet-burying, but Sam still ends up storming off… he is so “frustrating,” an interjecting Spock suggests before shaking hands with Jim. Smooth jazz plays us out as Kirk, Uhura, and Spock share the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
If you can eat without leaving crumbs we are going to get along just fine.
ANALYSIS
Something to say
This captivating episode had a bit of everything that makes for good Star Trek. There’s mystery, sci-fi suspense, scares, and inspiration, with dashes of humor and a smidge of romance. The focus is kept on character emotion which has been the touchstone of the season. “Lost in Translation” also celebrated the wonders (and perils) of space exploration more than any other season 2 outing. Uhura’s heartbreaking (and heartwarming) arc through the episode held everything together well, a credit to the crisp writing, well-paced directing, and superb acting from Celia Rose Gooding, who carries the episode’s required action, terror, and emotion. “Lost in Translation” is one of those episodes that had clear messages. It emphasized key Star Trek themes, including the embrace of the final frontier and a strong environmental message, but also explored the challenges faced by loss through both a human lens and as Starfleet officers.
The return of season 1 standout Bruce Horak was a very welcome surprise, with Hemmer’s sacrifice and its lasting impact on the crew reverberating throughout the episode. While Uhura’s emotional journey was at the forefront, Hemmer’s legacy was also nicely woven into the Una/Pelia side, which added a layer to their lighter, plot-focused storyline. Even though it has been a while since Hemmer’s exit in episode 9, Uhura’s breakdown over his loss here felt organic and very human, and tied in nicely with her previously established tragic backstory regarding the death of her parents (which we heard about in season 1’s “Children of the Comet”). She ran away to Starfleet to avoid that pain only to find it again, and it took some frank, but wise, words from her future captain to help get her through it. As we have seen with Una’s big secret and La’an’s nefarious ancestor, this season is confronting the emotional issues set up for each of these characters in season 1. While he was technically an avatar for the invisible aliens, there was still a huge emotional payoff to the moment Uhura and (de-zombified) Hemmer shared on the bridge, resolving this episode’s plot as well as the pain she has been avoiding. Their subtle performances and the stirring music should ensure not a dry eye in the house for fans.
Bet you didn’t have an “invisible Deuterium alien avatar” on your list for how I would come back.
It made sense to bring in an outsider as Uhura’s guide through this emotional turmoil, as she had clearly been hiding her feelings from her friends (and captain), giving the show a good reason to introduce her future captain, James T. Kirk. While this was Paul Wesley’s third time playing Kirk, it was really his first time (not counting a quick scene a couple of episodes back) playing Prime Kirk, and he did an excellent job portraying the brash ambitious younger version of the man destined to command this Enterprise. To tie things up in a bow they got a bit cute by making Pike temporarily a fleet captain to technically skirt canon issues arising from a line of dialogue in “The Menagerie” regarding when these two characters met. In terms of canon, it is curious how the show took the time to sort this Kirk and Pike fleet captain issue when it’s clear there they are headed for more canon-stretching with hints about the looming threat from Gorn, including Lt. Kirk being part of a mission on the edge of Gorn space and seeing all the little Gorn skeletons in his brother’s lab. Oh well… On the other hand, it was nice to see Kirk’s first bit of lust over the USS Enterprise and his first meeting with Spock, taking just the right amount of attention without making too big of a deal over these historic moments. And Kirk first seeing (and commenting on) Spock playing 3D chess was a nice little nod to the opening scene in the second Star Trek pilot “Where No Man Has Gone Before.”
Wesley continues to do his own thing as Kirk, for now it’s working, with a few hints of Chris Pine’s rakish style and a tiny bit of Shatner’s manner because really, only Shatner can do Shatner. It’s nice to see a new side of Jim Kirk with the sibling rivalry, along with the looming legacy of George Kirk Senior, offering insights into motivations that will lead him to become the youngest captain in the fleet. Bringing Kirk on also allowed for a bit of a follow-up to La’an’s time travel adventure with a different version of Kirk. It was handled quickly, but we can see the pain she continues to carry over her Kirk’s death and the conflicting feelings that arose from seeing this Kirk on the ship. We also have a nice quick follow-up to the Spock and Christine’s romance that kicked off at the end of last week’s episode, but this too was handled quickly and woven well into the surrounding Uhura/invisible aliens story.
I’ll show Sam, I’ll become captain of this ship!
Continuing the pattern in season 2, this episode nicely echoed familiar moments in Trek history, including characters seeing things others can’t, like alt-future Jean-Luc Picard’s sanity being questioned in “All Good Things,” and Uhura going through some similar horror to TNG’s “Night Terrors.” Uhura also gets to join the long list of Trek characters who confront or even get to fight themselves. Her visions also allowed for another one of those moments when we can see our characters killed and the ship destroyed. While Dr. M’Benga doesn’t come off well for his initial misdiagnosis, the “Is she crazy?” storyline was handled well and didn’t drag on too long, with some nice payoffs like how Pike showed his friendship and trust for Uhura even with no real evidence. That said, it would have been nice to learn a bit more about these invisible aliens; that exposition scene in Sam’s lab was a bit rushed as they jumped from conclusion to conclusion. Often on these modern shows, the sci-fi plot doesn’t get as much attention as we might be used to in Star Trek, with the emotional stories taking center stage. But still, there were nice echoes of other classic Trek moments, especially episodes with environmental messages with TNG’s “Force of Nature” being the closest analog with aliens going to extremes to warn against the harm being caused by the Federation. Strange New Worlds season 2 continues to rhyme with the poetry of franchise lore, without relying too heavily on it (for the most part).
Is this foreplay for a Vulcan?
Final thoughts
“Lost in Translation” kicked off the second half of the season perfectly. Even without taking one of those “big swings,” this episode hit the mark just right with a classic Star Trek story full of familiar elements told in a modern style through these new (and old) intriguing characters. Together, that makes this a quintessential episode of Strange New Worlds and the best of the season so far. With the highly-anticipated Lower Decks crossover coming next (even sooner for those going to SDCC) the future is looking even brighter.
It’s the mustache isn’t it? Starfleet is biased against promoting guys with mustaches.
Bits
- Episode begins with Uhura’s Communications officer’s log, Stardate 2394.8.
- Bannon’s Nebula was named in honor of Melissa Navia’s late partner Brian Bannon.
- While bussard collectors have long been established as part of Star Trek canon and modified for exceptional uses, this is the first time we have seen how they are used for their intended purpose, to collect deuterium.
- Uhura orders Saurian brandy, a Star Trek classic.
- In the 2009 Star Trek movie, Chris Pine’s alternate time James T. Kirk also meets Uhura in a bar, although that time he was definitely trying to hit on her.
- Uhura’s promotion from cadet to ensign means she no longer has to share a bunk room like last season, and now she’s enjoying very spacious personal quarters.
- Why does Uhura have her own personal dermal regenerator?
- While it sounded like Pike asked Uhura to hail Admiral Nogura (mentioned by Kirk in Star Trek: The Motion Picture), he actually asked her to contact Admiral Nagawa.
- Pelia gave Una a “C” grade in Starship Maintenance 307 at Starfleet Academy. The former professor also told Uhura that Hemmer was a “just okay” student.
- Unu calling Pelia a “space hippy” is a meta-reference to the TOS episode “The Way to Eden.”
Want some of my space weed?
More to come
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I liked this one overall. Feels the most unconnected yet.. except.. Kirk. lol. I didn’t mind it, though. With this episode it’s the little things. I promise I’m not looking for a reasons to bag on SNW, but with all the little things, they just add up to they’re trying to do an impersonation of TOS, as opposed to just coming up with a good idea and running with it. But the bad things are just… bad. The most glaring? Una being butthurt over a bad grade, and not being able to be professional because of it. Cringe.
Agreed about the Una thing… I thought that whole B-Story between her and Pelia was unnecessary filler and cringe inducing.
It’s pretty much spelt out at the conclusion that the bad grade isn’t the reason for Una’s apathy- it’s that Pelia has replaced her late friend.
True. I just wish they could handle that with a better level of nuance than they do on this show. It would feel much more realistic and in keeping with that we’ve gotten from this franchise at it’s best.
Yeah… It was typically simplistic and shallow. Which is expected from the writers of this show.
Yeah also agreed, thought they could’ve handled it a bit better.
Yeah, that Una grade thing was… not good. Other than the “Q&A” episode of Short Treks and the season opener about her trial, both of which were excellent, this show has not done right by Una.
Even if Rebecca’s availability isn’t as great as the rest of the cast, the material she’s been given to work with outside of her two major episodes has been lacking.
Yeah. The show has, I feel, really let Una down and that’s been my Number One (ha! get it?!) complaint about the characterizations.
Agreed!
I was wholly bored with the B story but wasn’t it determined that it wasn’t about the C? That it was about the fact that Hemmer was dead and Pelia was replacing him? Which was amazingly petty and seemed completely out of character based on what we know about #1. Or at least, knew. This is just a different version of her.
BTW… Why did we never meet the Captain of the Farragut? Shouldn’t he have been the one to head over to meet with the Fleet Captain?
This is just what happens when you bottle up your grief and then the bottle explodes. Also like no that’s not petty that’s how the mind works. They got it worked out in the end and that is what ultimately matters.
Kirk didn’t come over to meet Pike, he came to visit his brother.
And if you are a stickler for great grades and you always get them and you excel at everything, you will remember the person who gave you your one and only C. (Even though, as you said, it wasn’t about the C in the end.)
Ah. I did not pick up on him coming for his brother. But I still would think the Captain (Garrovick?) would have paid his new commander a visit. Honestly that’s not a big deal. Just something I noticed.
I’m sure she does recall the C. Not debating that. What I thought was petty was being a jerk to Pelia because she took over for her dead collogue. She of all people seemed more able to understand the position had to get filled and how illogical it would be to come down hard on the replacement. Whether she gave her a C or not.
In seminary, the lowest grade I ever got by far was a C+ in liturgics. Father Lloyd. He was an absolute monster, and absolutely punched below the belt. He told a classmate that she needed remedial English if she was going to be a priest (she was a native speaker with a philosophy degree). I will never forget him as long as I live. He wasn’t tough, he was just mean.
Excellent question. Because…Kirk! Ugh.
I think part of the point was that Una didn’t even realize consciously that it was about Hemmer. Pelia, who’s lost a lot of people over the years, picked up on it perhaps before she was even completely aware of it.
No “The Omega Glory” and “Spock’s Brain” were cringe. This was great. TOS is the 67 chevy that needed to be gutted and restored. That is what Strange New Worlds is. The complaining is kind of ridiculous at this point. The original series was not without a ton of issues. Even though it was a product of its time, it had some horrible cringe worthy sexist and racist moments that most fans either ignore or forget.
My hope is when this show is done, that they do a revamped version of the Original Series. Tell new stories around the old ones.
Agreed! SNW is giving me everything I want to see, and I have enjoyed every episode. I have a feeling that a transition to a TOS remake is at least in the showrunners heads. With all the appearances of Kirk in the show, how could it not be?
It really does seem like the arrogance of Secret Hideout will compel them to go right into TOS and “fix” it. They have already started.
There have been few “cuttings and restorations” in the history of TV that have worked. TOS doesn’t need that, and I wouldn’t say that SNW is a restoration. It’s an addition – and not a very consistent one.
What I will agree on is that this episode was definitely not “cringe”. I second the reviewer that this was the best of the season so far. But the B story with Una and Pelia didn’t land with me either. Una seems like she would be above being petty with a person she barely knows (I may have not liked some of my college professors, but I don’t think I would treat them like crap if I ran into them 15/20+ years later), and Pelia just came off as incompetent and insubordinate for no more reason than to be a pain. I felt both actors weren’t really given a fair shake at growing their character and the relationship between the two.
I am absolutely not longing for a “re-something” of TOS, as much as I like the new, Kirk, Spock, Uhura and Chapel. But I would like to see the new Bones, Scotty and Sulu, and I would also like to watch a miniseries about how the new crew got together and the 5YM started. It is something we never saw and which I expected to find in the reboots, only it did not actually happened. It may follow a few years jump, and include some big event to build a story on (closing the time cold war thread maybe?). A prime-version of ST (2009), basically. Rewrite those movies, instead of TOS!
Loved this episode. It had a bit of almost everything: suspense, horror, drama and comedy.
Kirk and Spock’s first canon meeting with that close up handshake between them really made me feel warm and fuzzy!
Is it anything like the Arnold/Carl Weathers one at the start of PREDATOR?
Probably my favorite episode this season! It felt like a classic Trek story, with a twist that I don’t recall being executed from similar hallucination-based episodes. Good character building as well, even for Kirk! Paul Wesley is growing on me, but it is still difficult to imagine him being the same James T. Kirk as portrayed in TOS. The inconsistencies in how this show maintains canon continues to frustrate. They toss aside major canon elements associated with the Gorn and the Eugenics Wars, the latter given the hand wave that it was due to the Temporal Cold War, yet awkwardly and temporarily make Pike fleet captain over two starships and a space station so that a casual line from the Menagerie isn’t violated! All and all, however, this was a great episode and a good way to kick off the second half of the season!
I agree with you on Paul Wesley as Kirk but when I saw him and Ethan Peck together with that close up handshake, they just looked EXACTLY like Shatner and Nimoy in my opinion.
Maybe it was my inner geek blinding me but I still felt such a fuzzy feeling when I saw that seen.
Yep. The inconsistency is nuts. They even made an entire episode to explain away their own changes, which essentially makes this show a reboot. Yet the opt to cling to other things that really don’t matter much any longer. According to their own show! Why make the effort with awkward lines and situations to force one smaller thing but ignore the much larger ones when you’ve already made an excuse that gives you carte blanche to change literally everything?
I hear you with regard to the frustrations around canon, though I disagree with the Gorn being a “major” violation.
If we’re comparing to “Arena,” we’ve got a bit of a conflict, though I don’t think an insurmountable one. Yes, the Enterprise is attacked by an “unknown vessel” but that can be explained away either as a kind of Gorn vessel that was unseen before, or maybe some kind of privateer type that was run by Gorn, but not flying their flag. We also have reasonable doubt suggesting that it could have been a Metron ship, as we only have their word to go on that the other ship was captained by a Gorn. (I don’t personally believe this, but it’s plausible). Similarly, Kirk’s language in “Arena” leaves wiggle room – “I face the creature the Metrons called a Gorn.” There are at least two possible reads of it: Kirk could have no idea what a Gorn is, or Kirk could know what one is, and know that this isn’t it. Or maybe he just has a weird way of speaking.
But, to the point of it being “major” – I just don’t think it is. The Gorn show up in “Arena” and then not again until “In a Mirror, Darkly, Pt II.” Almost 40 years between the two, and they’re barely mentioned in between. While Kirk vs. the Gorn is indisputably an iconic park of Trek, the Gorn never seemed to matter much to the canon.
Must disagree strongly. Just because they only appeared once doesn’t mean they aren’t significant. That same logic could lead to a Horta being a crew member on Pike’s Enterprise. And regarding your Gorn explanations… No. Those are monumental stretches that just don’t hold water. Even if one buy’s what you say the fact that Star Fleet knew about them for a decade and even KNEW where their claimed territory was means that nothing in Arena would have happened. For sure Star Fleet would have intelligence on them. Know what they claim and what they don’t Have an idea of where they were operating. Etc. There is no way in hell they would establish an outpost in an area that even had a chance of the Gorn claiming it as their space. They have been presented as far too hostile to take such a chance. Therefore, nothing regarding the Gorn on Strange New Worlds works with what we saw in Arena.
That being said, this show has all but had producers out right say it is a separate timeline/reboot. That timey-whimy episode with Kirk and La’an a few weeks ago said so. Therefore none of this even matters anymore. They can kill Kirk and Spock and it doesn’t violate anything now.
It’s fair to not buy those particular explanations, but I don’t think they’re particular stretches given the general tenor of Trek. Powerful aliens faking starships? That’s been done. People using other folks’ starships as a false flag? Yep. Powerful folks thinking they know more than they actually do? Also been done. I don’t think it’s too big a stretch.
There are plenty of examples of times when credulity has been stretched past the breaking point if whatever it is is something that really matters to you. I get that fitting into what your interpretation of canon is really important to you. I don’t fault you for it. But the show can both contravene your definition and remain faithful to the general facts.
As for not establishing Cestus III because they knew it was claimed by the Gorn: did they really know? We’ve got one graphic from “The Broken Circle” showing it near a line, and a “probable” Gorn Attack Ship. PLUS Federation colonists always seem to show up next to hostile species. That’s a significant number of plots of episodes.
As I said, though, it’s not so much that the Gorn aren’t significant, but rather that “Arena” being the “first contact with the Gorn” (which is never mentioned even in that episode) isn’t a major part of the canon. Nobody in any episode afterwards said anything to the effect of “no human had ever seen a Gorn or heard of them until Cestus III.” We’ve assumed for a long time that was the case, but clearly that assumption has been retconned. That doesn’t make it any less the Prime timeline.
They absolutely are incredible stretches. What matters to me is mainly the big things. And it’s not “my interpretation” of what’s canon. It’s what was presented on screen. There just is no reasonable scenario where Kirk knew about the Gorn. Period. Nothing in the episode even offered a slight clue. Spock never reacted to the news nor did Uhura. And the entire premise of the episode was contingent on not knowing about them as a species to begin with.
You never contradicted the logical conditions that had to have been met if what happened in SNW was prime. And I never said they knew the area was in Gorn space. I said they would have a pretty good idea of what the Gorn were doing and had they known, as SNW indicates they do, they would not have entered into a disputed area with a known highly aggressive species known massive carnage. To do so would surely invite a war. Also the Gorn translation never indicated any knowledge of Star Fleet or the Federation at all. If they had been dealing with them for that long don’t you think they would be aware of it? And the outpost was a Federation outpost. Not colonists. And yes colonists have been in harms way before but never intentionally. Nothing adds up here.
The only argument you can make is that yes… No one actually out right said “This is our first encounter with a Gorn”. But no one said that about the Horta either. And like the Gorn, it’s pretty obvious that was a first contact as well. The character actions and comments and the situation they were in obviously supported the fact that no one had ever heard of the Gorn before.
No, the fact hasn’t been retconned. SNW has already established they themselves are an alternative time line/reboot now anyway. So this has become a non-issue anyway. The events of Arena remain a first encounter with the Gorn. SNW is free to make whatever changes they wish because of the events in their episode 2.3.
I think we have wildly divergent notions of what constitutes an incredible stretch of imagination. I’m willing to buy in to that bending, and you’re not, it’s fine.
I didn’t contradict your conclusions because I disagree with your underlying premises. Knowing that they claimed territory does not preclude not knowing they claimed Cestus III. Maybe they decided to quietly claim it, and only just got around to destroying the colony. (Both Kirk and Spock call it a colony, so I think it’s justified as being called one.)
Does Starfleet necessarily have comprehensive intelligence? I don’t think so. There was so little known about the Romulans, and there was a full-on Earth-Romulan War. Not knowing what Romulans looked like was integral to “Balance of Terror,” so we have to assume that Starfleet Intelligence is kind of middling at best. If they don’t know what one of their greatest adversaries even look like after a war that was so powerful that it literally got the Federation to form, I think it’s not unreasonable for Starfleet to have data about the Gorn that is questionable at best.
As you said, what matters is what’s on screen. Spock and Uhura’s lack of a reaction is not evidence of zero contact/knowledge of them. In fact, nobody thinks the Gorn are weird or novel at all, which could support the notion that there’s some passing familiarity. Nobody goes “what is that thing?” or anything of the like. Nothing in the text of “Arena” apart from Kirk’s two “creature…called a Gorn” line indicates that it’s their first time dealing with them. Everyone just kind of treats it like a regular old alien. Contrast that with the Horta in “Devil in the Dark” where it’s entirely predicated on them not knowing that there could be living rock creatures.
The Gorn being unknown to Starfleet is immaterial to the story of “Arena.” Being lured to a planet and made to fight a fierce adversary are central to the story, and whether Kirk knew of it beforehand is irrelevant to the fight he has or the decision to spare the Gorn captain.
The Gorn have, indeed, been soft-retconned into the Prime timeline. If you want to have a different headcanon, by all means have at it.
Well, if one backs off enough and blurs things enough or do enough mental gymnastics anything can be deemed “possible”. I just don’t see it as reasonable. Example… There is nothing that says Scotty never sold ice cream out of a cart in his spare time on the Enterprise. One could still claim it was possible. And they would be correct. But is that reasonable based on everything we have seen? Of course the answer is “no”.
OK. Let’s go ahead and call Cestus III a colony. That still doesn’t change the logic. They knew about the Gorn. They had damn good reason to keep tabs on them. Unlike the Romulans. Who had honored the neutral zone treaty for a century. They were no longer a direct threat. I’m sure there were still attempts to watch but they were no longer a clear and present danger unlike the Gorn. If SNW is to be believed. Starfleet absolutely would be watching them as closely as possible. They certainly seemed to be in SNW, BTW. Why would they suddenly stop?
No one thinks anything of the word Gorn because they encounter new species often. The word wouldn’t mean anything. But those who remember dealing with the Gorn for sure WOULD recognize it. They would throw each other knowing looks if not outright say something. Kirk’s line is absolutely all that is needed to convey this is a new encounter. Writers back then understood utility. There was no reason to continue to hammer that point especially when it never has been before. Just like Devil in the Dark, Arena is dependent on no one knowing the Gorn exist. If the species is known the entire premise falls apart. For reasons already said.
This is not a “sort retcon”. If that is what you need to personally do to pretend this is still the prime time line that is your prerogative. But it doesn’t flow with the KU type of alternate time line/reboot they have shown this show to be back in episode 2.3.
I know we’re not going to come to an agreement on whether this is “prime” or “retcon” or an “alternate universe,” and that’s fine. I can agree to disagree on that notion.
I’m still a little confused, however, on how the Gorn being an unknown species is integral to “Arena.” That’s the element of your proposition that just doesn’t add up to me.
Pretty sure I ran down the sequence of events that makes Arena impossible if everything SNW has shown us about their version of the Gorn were prime. All one needs to do is follow the reasonable flow of events from SNW a few years down the line. I would say it’s unlikely the Gorn suddenly vanish and recede from territory Star Fleet already knows they claim. That doesn’t appear to be their nature based on the SNW version. And even if that unlikely event did happen it still doesn’t work with Arena at all.
No other show in Trek has taken the liberties with canon that this one does. It’s nowhere near as close.
I think I have to agree. But my main issue is it’s not just smaller things. It’s huge ‘things that go completely against what we know to be later’ kind of things.
The rubber-suit Gorn of Arena was so radically different in appearance from the raptor-like predators of SNW, that Kirk, Spock,, Uhura simply didn’t recognize them as being the same species…
I rewatched “Arena” after “Memento Mori” last year, and it was clear to me that “Arena” was not first contact with the Gorn.
Right? It doesn’t have first contact vibes apart from those stray lines of Kirk’s and it being an “unknown vessel.” And Romulan ships in “Balance of Terror” were described as unknown, that that’s after a whole war with the Romulans.
It would be interesting to know whether Gene Coon intended “Arena” to be a “first contact” story or not, but of course we’ll never know for sure. Given its status as a pseudo-adaptation of an SF short story that Coon had read and forgotten, written in haste to fill a hole in the show’s production schedule, I’ll bet that distinction was the last thing on his mind, and it’s a testament to his talents as a writer that it turned out as well as it did.
Fans arguing over the minutiae of canon on these boards is like seeing religious types debate Holy Writ. It might be disturbing, if it wasn’t so funny. At least there are no Holy Wars. Yet.
Even if it’s not first contact, that’s a moot point. They AREN’T the same alien species we saw in TOS. And if the excuse is going to go the way of the Xindi concept from ENT (“there are different types of Gorn”), if nothing else, Kirk should have been SCARED TO DEATH in Arena to have to deal with the SNW version of the Gorn.
In truth, it’s just lazy writing and storytelling. There was ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to establish the Gorn as the “big bad” for SNW. Every other version of Trek has established a new “evil” species to deal with, and in almost every instance, that has led to the best developed and most interesting aliens in all of Star Trek history – Klingons, Borg, Cardassians and the Dominion (which had more than one interesting species to deal with). Why couldn’t SNW do the same??
They couldn’t do the same because the writers and producers of SNW don’t have the creativity to make up something new and don’t respect the source material enough to obey what has already been presented.”
You are absolutely correct. There is just no excuse for what they did. They had two options to fix it before they even nailed down their scripts.
1: Make up a new alien. Being a prequel does not make this a problem. And it gives the writers the freedom to make the aliens anything they need them to be to tell their stories effectively.
2: Use an alien from other Treks that have NOT had a first encounter story already baked into the cake. I heard Kzinti and Breen as possibilities. Both would work fine.
But they opted to use an alien whose first encounter was already established. Why? The only explanation I’ve seen has been “because the Gorn are ‘cool'”.
Ultimately they opted to put themselves in an alternate timeline/reboot with takes them off the hook. But they really should have done that in the very first episode of the series so viewers would understand exactly what we were looking at. At this point it that move is really too little too late. It’s not going to change the minds of those who have been turned off by the lack of respect shown to TOS and those who were fine with all the differences are still going to like what they see. It’s just really hard to understand what these producers are thinking.
Good God, do you even listen to yourself? The producers “lack the creativity” to invent a new alien species, which in this case would have just entailed coming up with a new name, since everything else about them had been reimagined for this show? Forget about creativity — a random word generator to replace ‘Gorn’ would have done it, if that was what they had wanted. They didn’t, and though I actually (so far) agree with the assessment that it wasn’t a good idea, I can live with their choice and move on, without constantly throwing a tantrum by impugning the motives and talents of total strangers — something I went out of my way not to do in the case of Trek 2009, a film I utterly despised.
If you think you are defending the writers you actually aren’t. Take your advice and listen to yourself. What you said about their skills supports everything I did about them.
Feel free to moan and groan about ’09. I certainly won’t stop you. The only thing I’ll say about that is at least they had the courage to admit they were a reboot. But this show, nay, every Secret Hideout show, has been an obvious reboot in every single way except the producers coming out and saying it.
Every Star Trek incarnation has messed with the canon, including the original series. Gene Roddenberry was known to eliminate episodes he did not like and there are plenty of examples of canon being adjusted in every series. Roddenberry once declared Star Trek V “Apocryphal” saying it never happened.
I think fans need to get over this idea of a fidelity to a canon that has not been faithful to itself for a long time. The Fleet Captain thing feels like a treat they wanted to toss out to fans. It is not that deep. The adjustment of the Eugenics Wars is in my opinion is a nod to all of the changes in SNW. The implication being that changing that one event may have disrupted some things including the TOS timeline. Remember the line about “Time pushing back” ? The Temporal Cold War?
The original series is the body of a an old car that is being renovated. New interiors and a new engine and also a brand new paint job. Same body just new parts. There is nothing wrong with that.
Love the original series but seeing Christine Chapel depicted the way she was is problematic not to mention the lack of depth given to Uhura and the list goes on.
The day they introduced Spock’s adopted sister, the canon as you knew it was done. Every week this show stretches the original series and we should be celebrating that.
One day there might be a Stargazer prequel with a young Picard and they might step on Next Gen canon a little bit and that is okay. There are a ton of plot holes in Star Trek that have never been filled.
We have to stop this longing for the good ol days when it comes to Trek. We can respect what came before but Trek has to evolve. I have not loved a Star Trek incarnation this much since DS9.
To be fair technically Spock having an adoptive sister wasn’t a canon violation. Spock had a history of not mentioning his family to others. Even his good friends. His parents. Sybok. Michael, like her or not, works with that.
I would argue that giving him the adoptive sister was a terrible creative decision. Quite a different thing.
I see your point. I don’t think the Michael Burnham thing was that bad. I thought the first two seasons of Discovery were okay. I think we need to get over this idea about SNW and canon.
Moving the Eugenics Wars changed everything. It gave the writers the freedom to make adjustments. They never said that events of the original series are not going to happen. They will just unfold differently. Remember Time is pushing back. Those bloody Klingon Time Crystals from Discovery. Another way to upend the original series. The Kelvin Timeline gave us the rest of the Kirk Family. Interesting to see if we get a Conscience of the King nod.
The timey-whimey episode a few weeks ago essentially confirmed this show is an alternate time line/reboot. Giving them carte blanche to do whatever they want. That’s why I find it odd that they still from time to time awkwardly go out of their way to make small canonical things work with their show yet they created a situation for themselves where it just doesn’t matter to them.
The show is set in the Prime Timeline albeit an adjusted one. I wish they would just say it.
It’s a KU type of alternate timeline/reboot. And I, too, wish they would just come out and say it.
might just be semantics, but because of the Temporal Cold War and “time pushing back” it’s more of an altered timeline vs an alternate timeline. Makes more sense to me and I actually like this because wars do have ramifications, and the TCW has altered the prime timeline as a byproduct.
But time isn’t “pushing back”. It’s been changed. The Romulan agent flat out said “this wasn’t supposed to happen”. This is an alternate timeline. Or reboot. There doesn’t seem to be any way around that. Alternate version covers ALL their continuity mistakes.
I respectfully disagree. It’s not evolving. They’re not doing anything that is new or fresh. Canon isn’t the issue, it’s their failure to come up with compelling stories or at least write a coherent story. But, I’m sure I’m not the target audience either.
I agree with a lot of this. The only thing I disagree with is that Christine Chapel is essentially being portrayed the same way as she was in TOS: hopelessly in love with Spock. The only difference here is that this version has a little more sass.
I am not a wealthy man at all, but I would pay money to see a round-robin of the DS9 writing staff — all of whom I have enormous respect for — trying to watch this series (or any of the current live-action ones.) I think their honest response would be to make fun of damned near everything they see — when not emitting Sensurround-sized groans of dismay, that is.
I think I would contribute to that. I suspect the entertainment from it would be worth every penny.
The DS9 writers room wrote their fair share of duds amidst the great stuff, sorry. (And while I enjoyed the DS9 doc immensely, I thought the pitched story for a hypothetical eighth season frankly sucked.) I doubt very much that they would care to publicly pile-on their fellow creatives, whether they like the show or not, being well-aware of how truly difficult it is to create anything of lasting significance in this life, particularly for a franchise with hundreds of hours of content aired, and where half the fans will accuse you of being too timid with your choices while the other (see above) screams that a perceived canon violation has destroyed their childhood. Frankly, my impression was that Ira Behr and company have way too much class for that.
I’m about two-thirds of the way through my umpteenth reread of the DS9 COMPANION and one of the biggest takeaways is how they all seem totally wiling to own up to their goofs. Also to carry, if not a grudge, then at least some dismay, over things they weren’t allowed to do.
I don’t think it would be showing a lot of character or class to sugarcoat their views on a Trek series, especially for Behr, who while obviously grateful for his op on DS9, doesn’t owe Paramount anything at this point (except maybe a thanks for not vetoing the doc, especially given how Paramount has been insanely protective of bad publicity on all Trek for about a quarter-century now — that’s just my own experience, on projects ranging from TMP to the 09.) It might be that Wolfe, after his ANDROMEDA experience, would be even more openly critical.
Whether it is professional to crap on your fellow writers … well, we both know Ellison’s work, and his own willingness to do so, just from THE GLASS TEAT entries and his resignation speech from SFWA. if he ever served as an ethical standard-bearer for any of these folks, they’d know the truth transcends such. I do grant you that during a time of strike this would have no chance of happening since it would be a blow to unity.
The most ironic part of your argument to quit complaining about canon and just accept that this is the Prime timeline is your last paragraph – “Trek has to evolve.” Whether or not I fully agree, evolving would be ADMITTING this isn’t the same timeline. Arguing that the past show/s (TOS, etc.) had issues and don’t really fit anymore gives them even more reason to do this. Again, whether or not I agree with that concept, breaking free from TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY canon would allow the writers to have MUCH MORE freedom and evolve it any way they want.
OR the alternative is to actually start exploring “Strange New Worlds”, leave the canon characters, aliens, timeline, etc. out of it, and create a new and unique show that stands completely on it’s own.
Since it’s clear the creators have chosen to not blaze their own trail in terms of exploration, then it’s time to just publicly admit that this isn’t the same timeline that many of us grew up with.
Time for whom?
I saw these two episodes when they had Troi in them….
“eyes in the dark…one moon circles”
“Well, you know what they say, Mr. Worf. “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.”
Definitely got some “Night Terrors” and “Eye of the Beholder” vibes references too.
Not a new concept, but nothing really has been this season. Admittedly it’s hard to come up with all new storylines in a franchise that’s nearly 60 years old, but I don’t think the writers care about that. All they want is some BASIC sci-fi/Star Trek-ish premise to use as a wrapper for their character and relationship studies. It’s not about the “Strange New Worlds” as much as it is about the cast, old and new. Exploration of anything more than emotions, motivations, and interpersonal interactions is clearly not a priority this season.
Fair play.
I appreciated the attempt to give Uhura more backstory that tied in, but it was not all that compelling to me. A lot of telling over showing, similar to Una and Pelia’s beef where they tell each other what they are about after having very little interaction beforehand.
Night Terrors is one of my all-time favorite episode. That musical theme still haunts me, and I think I got a bit of it in this episode. Did you hear it?
Pike temporarily promoted to Fleet Captain… Temporary? Sorry but that was lame. He’s one of the finest captain’s in Starfleet. I had hoped to see Starfleet give him a heartfelt permanent promotion with James T. Kirk in attendance.
My grandfather was a naval Captain and got a temporary promotion to Commodore at one point. It’s not unheard of. Still… seems like overkill for this operation.
True. Temp rank changes don’t ring as false but it still felt like a lame excuse to get Kirk there in order to make his line from “The Menagerie”. Which is laughable when the show totally changes Spock, Chapel, uses the Gorn, and host of other things that they made legit with that “time whimey” stuff a few episodes ago. So honestly why do they even bother anymore?
Exactly!
My Dad had a brevet promotion to Major during World War II but is officially recorded as a Captain in service records.
That’s how the U.S. military works, and Starfleet has always mirrored the U.S. military. Temporary promotions based on need and circumstance are common in the military, and officers don’t resent the temporary nature. It’s part of the job. SNW is simply following military norms, just like all the times we’ve seen people becoming acting captains.
Well… I’ve learned something new. Thank you for sharing. 😊
UK Royal Army too. My Dad was in His Majesty’s Army (Essex Regiment), North Africa and Italy. Brevet promotion to Major.
It was done to satisfy canon so Pike and Kirk can meet. Before Anson Mount’s debut as Pike, my head canon filled out his role as Fleet Commander. The rank just sounds fantastic and important. Maybe he was promoted because he was a great strategist or explorer who knew the how to deploy the fleet. Maybe he was promoted because they needed him on the Klingon border or just something military like. I often thought maybe he was put in command of all constitution class ships and their assignments throughout the galaxy. Jeffery Hunter’s Pike, even though we had him only for one episode, did have a great heroic command presence that allowed me to speculate.
Unfortunately, it was just command of another ship, which happened to have Kirk on it, and a deuterium station. Such a disappointment and pointless thing to do in the episode. It was asinine.
So why were they worried about this piece of cannon when they forgot about all the rest? Like…
Kirk and the Gorn … From TOS … “I’m engaged against a creature the Metrones call a Gorn….”
McCoy introduced Kirk to Dr. M’Benga in a Private Little War. This is their introduction.
Kirk doesn’t remember a Noonien Singh about the Enterprise… Really?
Kirk commenting on the Enterprise being an incredible ship? Really… the Farragut was its sister ship and precisely the same.
So the fact that they used this lame temp promotion is ridiculous because they ignore cannon everywhere else.
They have always played fast and loose with what they wanted to adhere to and what they didn’t want to.
But the goofy part is they devoted 10% of the entire season to explain away why they are allowed to make whatever changes they want. And they STILL think they need to force certain other tiny bits to make a line from TOS work. Why? This show is so all over the place. It really feels like they have no idea what they are doing.
Yup
Maddening
Absolutely agreed!
I don’t really mind any of this stuff, but worth noting the Farragut was never canonically a sister ship, i.e. another Connie. And now, SNW canonically establishes it as a different ship class.
I really liked this one and right now, it’s my second favourite episode of the season (behind 2×02)…. admittedly that’s a *very* low bar to clear. It felt, as others have said, like a classic Trek story and it was all the richer for it. Celia Rose Gooding did a fantastic job, as did Paul Wesley (although he’s still not fully gelling with me as Kirk).
The only aspect of the episode that I didn’t like was Sam. He just came off as immature and insecure and I have trouble believing that he made the grade to serve on the Federation flagship. Maybe if we saw more of him, it might be believable- but he stands out as a pretty pointless character.
I see your point about Sam, but I think his behavior in this episode was largely a result of seeing his brother and having to confront his insecurities about his career choices vs his father and namesake. I actually like that they are adding layers to the Kirk family history and dynamic.
Agreed.
I tend to agree. The writers just handled it with the typical lack of nuance as usual.
Yep. The one part of all this I do seem to like, surprisingly Is Kirk and L’aan. That interested me, and I want to see more. I think there is something believable bubbling beneath the surface there, and IMO the actors get the credit for that.. both here and in their previous episode.
Suprisingly, I also like the connection between Kirk and La’an. I’m way more invested in it than I am with Spock-Chapel.
I think it’s because La’an feels like a fully fleshed out, three dimensional character whereas Chapel is basically there to be Spock’s love interest.
I was disappointed that they gave the La’an/Kirk connection such short shrift, and I don’t know when they’ll pick it up again. I really would like to see where they go with it, the actors have chemistry and it could be a big love story. Though that would make Kirk not immediately picking up on Khan in “Space Seed” a little odd. Except Suliban craziness.
I think some of the Kirk issues stem more from the way he’s being portrayed. I can see glimmers of Kirk, but I can also see some of Kelvin Kirk too.
I’m not as against Wesley’s Kirk after this episode as I have been before. But to be fair getting Kirk right is a very tall task. There is only one Shatner. Pine was OK but he didn’t nail it. I think that is probably about as good as we are going to get anytime someone is cast to play the man.
I think that’s kind of the point, though: Sam is going to end up a washout, I predict. He’ll meet Aurelan and leave Starfleet for a posting on Deneva, knowing he can’t cut it in the shadow of his more successful brother.
That might be the case, but it still doesn’t make sense how he somehow got a posting on the flagship when he’s so immature and (as we saw last week) slovenly. I’m guessing that his dad being a Starfleet legend probably called in some favours to get him the position.
maybe the commander of Starfleet brought him in to ruin the team’s chances at promoting to the next league…wait, I’m confusing shows I think.
I would think that he was given a permanent station as a research biologist on Deneva that allowed him to work on something he was very interested in. Further it would probably be better to be in one place for his wife & child. I doubt it had anything to do with being in his younger brother’s shadow.
The dynamic between both Kirk’s reminds me a lot of a lot of sibling relationships. One will always see the other as being the favourite and the overachiever. Plus we already see that both have very different personalities. Sam is a bit sloppier and laid back compared to Jim. He also has a family.
So Spock meets Kirk in a bar? I had always envisioned that they met in a less pedestrian manner, but hey, why not…
In this version, sure. Probably not in the prime version.
My headcanon for the prime setting is that they didn’t meet until Kirk took command of the Enterprise. In fact I have trouble believing Kirk stepped foot aboard the ship until then. It’s ridiculous that his brother served on it.
That Spock (in TOS) served both as Exec and Chief Science is strange. I suspect Kirk planned for Mitchell to take the Exec role but his injury (I think alluded to in WNMHGB?) might have played a role. Spock took both roles temporarily but it ended up becoming permanent.
Anyway, did it bug anyone else when Sam called the Enterprise the “flagship”? Do the writers know the difference between TOS and TNG?
I agree with you that it seems unlikely that Kirk never set foot on the Enterprise until being named Captain. I’m no fan of Sam being on the ship but nothing is known about him so I just chalk that up to a bad creative decision.
In all the years of watching TOS I never once thought Spock being 2nd in command and the Science officer. I honestly don’t see any conflicts there. I suppose they could be 2 separate officers but… Meh.
And yes, referring to the ship as the “Flagship” rang false to me. Even on TNG I thought that was a bit on the arrogant side.
All that said it’s all pretty much moot considering the revelation that this show is a KU alternate time line now.
It didn’t occur to me until TMP pointed out that being both at the same time was extraordinary (“Captain Kirk has the utmost confidence in me…”). When Spock is reinstated as Chief Science Officer, Decker remains as XO.
Riker likewise didn’t seem to have another dedicated role aside from XO.
That sorta felt to me like “I’m taking over your role as Captain here and since we don’t have an Exec and I could still use your expertise on the redesign I’m keeping you on as my Executive Officer.”
So I still really didn’t think much of it.
The only time I saw it as a regular position with no other duties was on TNG. Which I chalked up to “it’s 80 years later, some protocols changed. Like having the ship’s shrink on the bridge.”
Yeah it was OK, but I think it would’ve been cooler to meet on an actual mission together, something that bonded them from the start. But in reality a lot of people become friends getting drunk in a bar together. ;)
True about bonding in a bar, but this is Star Trek after all, not Cheers. I also had hoped that they met on some mission and saved the universe together for tbe 1st time. Ah well, next time line.
The two meeting in a bar was exactly my same thought. And meeting by having Spock interrupt a conversation about Sam. Yeah, not what I would have envisioned. I’m not sure I ever fully thought it out, but I would have thought they either met on the Enterprise when Kirk took command or maybe on a mission or something along those lines where Kirk saw Spock in action and knew he wanted to keep him on as Science Officer. Obviously, I think the scene at the end of the episode was just meant to get Kirk, Spock and Uhura together at the end, and in some ways it felt like SNW’s version of the ST “Holy Trinity”.
That was my favorite episode of the season, with one big exception: the decision to destroy the station. The aliens lived in the deuterium. Blowing up the station would have burnt up a huge amount of deuterium, which means that the episode ended with mass murder–and the aliens seemed ok with this, given the smiling Hemmer. Towing the station out via tractor would have solved the problem with a lot less death. A very sloppy ending to a very good episode
Still, it was otherwise excellent. Uhura stole the show. Celia Rose Gooding is SO good in the role–she’s got Nichelle Nichols’ vibe down perfectly, but she also works in a lot of Zoe Saldaña’s version, and the fusion is pitch-perfect. Pelia finally had something meaty to do, and seeing Hemmer back was a joy. Plus, Paul Wesley did a great job as Kirk, and that final Kirk-Spock meeting was wonderful. Wesley looks and sounds like Jim Carrey, but he still manages to find a happy balance between Shatner, Pine and his own interpretation (and even some James Cawley for good measure). it all works for me. The Kirk-Uhura scenes were fantastic. I loved the twist on the fact that the 2009 film’s Kirk and Uhura also met in a bar, as well as the fact that he was helping her deal with fear–a nice callback to TOS’s “Captain, I’m frightened” and the scene with their forced kiss in “Plato’s Stepchildren” when she talked about how always calmed her when she was scared. So well done.
Now if someone would just give Babs Olusanmokun a throat lozenge and tell him to stop mumbling so much. He’s a great actor, but I have to put the subtitles on every time M’Benga is on the screen, as his low, gravely voice is so difficult to discern. All I hear is “Mrrfrrrshrrplllvrrrr, Captain.” The original M’Benga had a clean, crisp voice. He was very articulate. But with this younger M’Benga, it’s all whispery mumbles. I can’t help but wonder if he had a throat operation between SNW and TOS to fix a problem with his larynx.
Also, Erika Ortegas is the most painfully forced and uninteresting character since Travis Mayweather. It’s not the actor’s fault–it’s the writing. The dialogue they keep giving her is so awful, which is weird because one of the things I love most about Strange New Worlds is the dialogue. For Ortegas, it’s just one anachronistic quip after another. It’s so cringey, and it knocks me out of the show every time. Now, there’s nothing wrong with characters making references to the past. It worked very well with Tom Paris, for instance. And it worked with Kirk’s and Picard’s fondness for old books and antiques, as well as Sisko’s love of baseball. But that was all done very organically. In Ortegas’ case, it’s so forced, so unauthentic. It kind of reminds me of that really goofy scene in “The Cage” when Jose Tyler turns and holds up his fingers to indicate the time-warp factor since the music was swelling and the audience thus couldn’t hear the actors. So cringey.
I get that Melissa Navia probably didn’t want a heavy workload following the death of her partner, but she definitely deserves better than the tripe she’s been forced to deliver so far this season. The big “revelation” about her character this season is….. that she flies the ship (/s). I mean come on!
I feel kind of bad for Navia. If you look at her IMDB page, she’s been a bit player her whole career. Now she gets what seems like a series regular part and…she’s still a bit player.
And it’s unfortunate. I find her really likeable and she could add an extra dimension to the dynamic of the crew, instead of her quips which are frankly getting annoying. The writers just don’t know what to do with her.
I agree with all of this as well. It’s very sad we were told we were getting an ‘Ortegas’ episode this season only to find it really didn’t explore the character at all, just her moment to save the ship. That’s basically what every character gets to do at some point.
I just don’t really understand why some characters can’t even get a back story while others get developed at least a little every episode. In he TOS days, TV was just different, if it didn’t concern the stars of the show, no one cared. But today it’s very different, especially since SNW is an ensemble show like TNG, DS9 and VOY was.
The big “revelation” about her character being that she flies the ship was by far the dumbest thing about this season to date. We already *knew* that.
Yeah sadly agree.
Though it comes off more as a montage/transitional scene the way it’s filmed, the hyperdrive sequence in “The Cage” was inspired by Roddenberry’s love of the SF pulps he grew up reading, and was meant to depict the ship’s transition to translight speed in a way that had never been done before, with the walls going transparent and the computer noise rising to a cacophony that nothing could be heard over, hence Tyler’s signage. This would probably have been impractical to keep going on a weekly basis for both production and dramatic reasons, but it was an interesting idea at least.
I’m with you on those points, though a different take on blowing up the station. I can hand-wave that maybe these critters could live through it because of some extradimensional shenanigans. If there had been some technobabble that they used to detect the aliens, I could see Pike making that case. What I don’t quite buy is Pike selling the decision to destroy this station to Starfleet on account of some vibes from a junior officer.
I imagine Pike’s conversation with Starfleet Command going something like this: “I blew up the station because one officer, who had the symptoms of Deuterium poisoning, thought she was getting messages from aliens who lived in the gas. What’s that? No, we couldn’t detect them. She was just really convincing. Hmm? Okay. Yes. Yes, I accept the immediate demotion. Thanks.”
Celia Rose Gooding really knocked it out of the park, though. I think this might be my favourite Uhura episode in all of the canon. And Wesley is growing on me as Kirk.
Right, exactly.
“No, but she seemed REALLY sincere, Admiral.”
“Oh, in that case, carry on. Job well done.”
Your mentioning, “captain i’m frightened” reminds me that I was thinking during the round-ear-Spock ep that they should have given him that line.
I really liked this one. The Uhura episodes, so far, have been among the best on the show.
I really enjoyed the Una/Pelia subplot. I think it’s because I related to it due to something that had happened at work to me personally. My supervisor, who was a friend, abruptly retired and the person who came in to replace him (who is really a good person) and I just didn’t click at all. It took me some time but I eventually realized it was the same reason Pelia cited. She replaced my friend.
After a poor start these last two episodes have been a return to form.
Uhura is the only legacy character I think they have not ruined. And as a result of the other new characters being dull as hell, she’s one of the more interesting people in the cast.
Totally agree on Uhura being protected so far, but that could be that Celia Rose Gooding does a great job of staying level with her performance and not coming off as someone dramatically different than Nichelle Nichols. Plus it helps that Nichols role was minimal during TOS, so there’s room to grow. But with everyone else (including Chapel), their characters were pretty clear in their roles and motivations, and in one way or another, they’ve all be stretched beyond my limit of belief that they are the same as their 1960’s counterparts.
As for the actual NEW characters, I’m good with La’an, but could take or leave Ortegas depending on if they ever find a way to make her truly interesting.
That’s possible. But I do think she captures what could reasonably be a younger Uhura pretty well. And so far none of the scripts have screwed with the character.
Regarding the new ones… None of them have felt genuine to me. They feel kinda forced. Not sure how else to say it. Sometimes characters on other shows took some time to grow on me. But after 17 episodes none really have so far. Ortegas really irritates me because of her borderline insubordinate snappy comments. La’an… I just have a tough time getting past the decision to make her a descendant of Khan. I might have a different tune if they had just had the same character but gave her a different name. But here we are.
Great episode.one missed opportunity in season one was not having Una lead the away team on episode nine. This would had given this follow episode that extra emotional punch.
Well, this proves that I just need to not watch pre-episode clips. Because this episode turned out to be fantastic. And my rank concerns, are immediately addressed in the following scenes. Loved it.
So the story in this episode was certainly interesting even though it was simply a mash up of stories which were in previous shows. I enjoyed seeing how some of the TOS crew ended up meeting each other.
Though i suspect some will shout not canon or something but to be honest i don’t really care if something violates canon. All i care for is well written Trek and SNW imo bounces between good and bad writing (out of 16 episodes so far i have fully enjoyed around 6 of them and the rest are ok) more then other newer shows do.
So we see ‘Hemmer’s’ return hmmm….Sorry but i disliked the character and have no interest in seeing him again though i do hope we see the actor himself play a different character on the show.
With the lack of Pike we have got in some episodes this season i am beginning to wonder if the rumors of Anson Mount leaving the show after S3 are actually true.
Anson Mount has said in interviews that he doesn’t like working so many hours on a TV show these days as he wants to spend more time with his family especially now when he has a new child around.
It would make sense since his character has been promoted to Fleet Captain(even only temporarily) and with Kirk showing up more often it could be a way of getting the audience used to this new Kirk so they can have a time jump in S3 and have Kirk become captain.
We will see.
He’s got plenty of time to be with his family these days….
Even if Mount’s status is up in the air (which I really haven’t read much on that), it would be hard for me to believe that the current show runners would be willing to jump the gun and go to Kirk as captain. They certainly have no problem breaking canon, but then moments like this episode’s first meeting between Kirk and Pike prove that they are STILL TRYING to make everyone believe this is in the Prime universe. Moving Kirk up in the timeline would be a HUGE change unless they are ready to officially proclaim that SNW is no longer in the same timeline.
That said, I agree with you on the writing, and I personally thought this was the best of the season so far – which in some ways is not saying much. Last season at least seemed to show moments of creativity when it came to new stories or even new aliens and “Strange New Worlds”. This season seems to be stuck on character development, and much of that hasn’t even been written that great. I’m not sure what they’ll do with a third season, but I’m not very optimistic at the moment.
What rumors?
Hemmer! I’m so glad we did get her hallucinating him in this episode. Even though him being still alive would have made things a lot easier. Now to go find this week’s ready room to see if they have a clip from next week’s episode. Between Hemmer today and the next episode, SNW is delivering to me rn.
Loved seeing Hemmer! Killing him off in my least favourite episode of SNW was a tough blow.
Right, it was a rough episode between that and everything else. We need another Aenar character someday.
Hemmer’s death seemed to mark a downturn in SNW. Hemmer was unique in many ways, and in return we got Pelia. Doesn’t seem to be a fair exchange. Maybe I do understand Una’s motivation for not liking her now….
I love how they are exploring Kirk, Spock, Uhura meeting and developing. And Kirk’s relationship with his brother! You are getting the best of both worlds with Pike/Una and then the TOS characters developing.
Successful prequels make you care more about the source material, now when Kirk’s brother dies in TOS you feel for that character!
As for Kirk, I am glad he is not portrayed as a rock star off the bat. Let the character grow and learn!
I LOVE Star Trek, but the stories this season have gotten progressively worse and are poorly written. Paul Wesley is a horrible actor.
Bit harsh in my opinion. The original ‘Trek was not exactly great in terms of acting quality.
Still, it’s your opinion.
I still get a chuckle from some of Shatner’s over-the-top acting in TOS.
There are some OTT moments, but some of them are great anyway, like ‘risk is our business.’ For me, early low-key Kirk, who only shows the extremes on occasion, is far preferable, especially in BoT and Charlie X.
I think the acting in TOS from Doohan, Nimoy, Kelley and Shatner is usually top-notch.
Just my two quatloos…. I have thought that Shatner often gets a bad rap for his acting chops. I think he is better than most give him credit for. Especially when he gets the right role. Like James Kirk or Denny Crane.
I was thinking more along the lines of Turnabout Intruder. I laugh every time.
When I was a teenager, I had a lot more problems with the third season Shatner, but right before TMP came out, I read that SHATNER: WHERE NO MAN book he sort of co-authoted. It made me reconsider the WHY of what he was doing, and I realized he was trying a non-realtime version of what he did with the SUZY WONG play, trying to keep audiences in their seats through force of will. Wherever he heard audiences stirring or prepping to depart, he would actually turn his performance in their direction, as if to dare them to leave. And this went on while the play got pruned-down and very effective salvaged after initial reviews that were totally brutal, so he saved a play that ran for many months and then gave William Holden a nice gig when the movie version came along.
I think a lot of his excesses were a combination of that sort of desperation and bad directors or directors unwilling to challenge the star of a show to do better.
TURNABOUT INTRUDER was directed by one of the worst in their stable, the guy who actually finished THOLIAN WEB after Senensky (who is my fave Trek director ever, even over Daniels and Pevney) got canned for falling a bit behind. This the same guy who Shatner took some glee in embarrassing when Wallerstein told him, “Bill, pull out your thing and call the ship,” and Shatner reached for the fly to his pants. On TURNABOUT, he was directed to exit the briefing room by marching offscreen toward an area of the set that didn’t even have a door, and as a kind of protest, did as directed, but kept on going, leaving the stage completely (latter is from the late Joan Winston’s account of a set visit, as reported in STAR TREK LIVES!) Maybe all was forgiven later, as he did direct a couple of Shat’s BARBARY COAST episodes.
In reviewing Wallerstein’s work just now, I see he is also the guy who practically caused the set to be shut down over WHOM GODS DESTROY, when Nimoy refused to play the ‘which Kirk is it’ scene as directed, since it destroyed his character as the director laid it out. And the fact he did three of the NEW TEMPERATURES RISING series doesn’t show much character either, as that was a pretty funny series starring James Whitmore that got gutted by the network, which installed Paul Lynde as the lead character in mid-run.
Yeah, replacing Whitmore with Lynde was such a WTF, even to a pre-teen.
deep cuts…
Regardless of one’s opinion of Shatner’s acting, I’m taking a wild guess that most people won’t have as strong of memories or as much nostalgia thinking about Paul Wesley (or most of the SNW cast) as the experience of watching Shatner play Kirk in TOS. Plus, there’s something so 60’s/older Hollywood about his performance that helps make TOS stand out in a day and age where most shows are getting lost in the continuous output of the streamers. If you would have told me 30 years ago that Kirk and Spock would be as big of a part of pop culture as they are today, I’m pretty sure I would have laughed out loud. But so much of that is due to the performances of Shatner and Nimoy.
Beyond that, it’s all subjective, but I really thought that DeForest Kelley and James Doohan were great and still could have a place in modern TV. Nichelle Nichols had her moments, but I can’t say a whole lot for Koenig for Takei. They improved in the movies, but still not the best actors of their day.
Agreed! I’m not a negative person and I have a broad interpretation of what makes good Star Trek. But, I don’t see the rest of this season being good. The LD crossover would have been something to look forward to if we didn’t have so many misfires. My head count has four bad episodes and two that works.
It’s like they want to fill in the gaps in canon, while not following canon, but also keep the show’s premise of exploration, while minimizing that part, explore genres, while appealing to casual fans, but wanting to be the ones to introduce TOS crew quickly in the timeline. It’s a mess.
Shatner is a pretty crappy actor, truth be told. I know it’s heresy to say that- but it’s true.
I don’t know. When a director knows how to get the most out of him, we get Admiral Kirk from WoK.
Actually that was more about getting the least out of him, at least with ‘here it comes.’ If a TOS director had held things up that long over a single line reading, he’d have been fired long before he got that wonderfully low delivery out of Shat.
That line is a good poster child for the whole experience, but really all throughout the movie, he performed in that understated way. It was like the real person that the TOS caricature was based on.
my favorite line of the entire film
He’s not a horrible actor. For me it’s 2 things:
Anthony – Uhura has her own Dermal Regenerator for the same reason you have band aids and Neosporin. Not everything requires a trip to the doctor. ;)
If my memory is correct, other incarnations of Trek have established that it’s not common for a crew member (beyond medical) to have a dermal regenerator on hand. I can’t remember where that’s mentioned, but I really do think that was said in an episode of TNG, DS9 or VOY.
Also, remember that this is a Starfleet ship – essentially the military. My guess is that they prefer to keep track of injuries requiring a dermal regenerator. Yes, it makes sense that, with a simple cut, that wouldn’t be necessary. But maybe they have something more basic for that situation.
Overall I found this one enjoyable, although the plot seemed pretty muddy to me for the first 35 minutes or so. Although I’m trying, I really can’t see any of the JTK character in Paul Wesley, and it’s kind of annoying that brother Sam is so childish and whiny in every scene he’s in. No wonder JTK isn’t all that upset when they find him dead in Operation Annihilate, LOL, he was a real PIA. Inserting James Kirk in this one as Uhura’s sounding board worked well enough I guess, but to me the appearance simply served to check some canon boxes, which itself seems silly because so many other canon violations have taken place. I could have done without some of the Una/Pelia dialogue too, to me it dragged and took me out of what was otherwise an interesting, if not totally original, story. Anyway, I’m not as impressed as some have expressed here, but this one worked well enough. And props to Celia Gooding for some nice acting. Cheers.
Per usual agreed with pretty much everything you said. I enjoyed it but I didn’t love it either. It definitely had some good moments in it for sure though. And yeah, this Kirk is just not doing it for me at all. This is now suppose to (finally) be the real Kirk and he still doesn’t really fit IMO. But we’re stuck with him either way at this point.
I actually had a weird moment during this ep when instead of seeming so much like Jim Carrey, this new guy did seem like Kirk — but the Kirk android from WHAT ARE LITTLE GIRLS MADE OF? He gave off the ‘androids don’t eat, Miss Chapel,” vibe, which is even a disimprovement on how badly he has done previously. They don’t write him properly, but that is true for most of the cast — yet the security chief and Uhura both deliver very solid work in spite of mediocre to suckworthy material, much like Mount was able to polish DSC s2 turds to a high and even edible gleam.
The idea of this guy leading a revamped SNW at some point seems like show suicide — then again, with Par bleeding dollars and ending series, maybe that is a potential exit plan.
SNW keeps giving me what I want, and this episode delivered.
Forgoing “best” discussions, this is one of my favourites. As stated in the review, reminiscent of “Force of Nature” (TNG 7×09), but I think an even better comparison would be “Night Terrors” (TNG 4×17). Kind of a fusion of the two, with a bit of “Phantasms” (TNG 7×06) thrown in. Those are all some of my fave TNG episodes, so something that cribs from them is gonna work for me.
I’m really coming around to this Kirk. There was a little more of TOS Shatner’s charm. There’s still a casualness to him which doesn’t quite work for me, but that’s true of all characters and the writing more generally.
I do wish there had been more of an investigation into finding a way to detect the lifeforms. Why was it just Uhura and Ramon? Maybe using something they have in common, they recalibrate the sensors and find the space critters. That would have really put a bow on it for me.
Even if I’m not in love with Una’s attitude to Pelia, it was really nice to see some activity between two characters who weren’t the big legacy characters. (I’m treating Number One as a new character because, for all intents and purposes, she is.) Some development of those two, their relationship to each other and to their duties, and a nice little B story was a fine addition.
Keep at it, SNW!
Checking in on the various characters relationships and with it being centred around a bar, this episode gave me a lot of DS9 vibes in a way.
Except a lounge on a space station never felt off to me like the swanky restaurant/lounge/bar they have on this version of the Enterprise.
What else is there to do on your time off when you’re away from a planet then. Not everyone is Scotty.
I didn’t say it was weird they they had a rec room or a place for off duty crew to hang out, eat, play chess, socialize. I said it was weird that they had a place that looked like a 5 star high end restaurant.
🤷 maybe it is weird but then it is the flagship
That really doesn’t matter. But I don’t recall TOS claiming the Enterprise was the “flagship”. Perhaps it was then wasn’t?
It was not the flagship. There was some hand-waving about the refit possibly becoming the flagship, but that was all from designers, not writer producers. The flagship stuff started with the -D.
That stuff is confusing sometimes.
That’s what I thought. The first time I even heard the term was on TNG.
Of course this could be chalked up to the alternate timeline/reboot that SNW is.
The definition of Flagship in Trek means something different than in the real world. I don’t see how this Enterprise could be that. TOS establishes it’s one of many of the same design. Calling this the Flagship, by their own definition, makes no sense. But… this is SNW, so things not making sense is the norm.
I think you hit the ball right on the screws again here.
With a house band, no less. That might make sense on The Ent D, but not on this vessel.
Yes! I forgot all about the band! Was it made up of off duty personnel? That’s the only way it could work. But the entire concept just doesn’t fit in this time frame in this universe.
Also don’t forget Discovery didn’t have a bar either until its 3rd season. I guess in the 32nd century it’s a requirement. ;)
Of all the questions the Disco crew received upon arriving in the 32nd century, the most asked one was in fact “Whatcha mean you ain’t got a bar?”.
I was actually about to make a comment that of all the issues with Discovery, their mess hall felt like it fit to the Starfleet aesthetic. I have to agree with the comment that SNW’s mess hall/bar/lounge/whatever is just a bit too much to me. Even 10 Forward (the real one on the D) seemed more laid back and casual than this.
Yeah SNW ‘mess hall’ looks and feels like a gourmet restaurant lol. I’m not sure why everything on the ship has to look so high end. That’s why I dub this ship more like a cruise line, something rich tourists would use if they wanted to travel through space for a few months.
Bill Murray was outstanding in this. And what a great directing job by Sophie Coppola.
So crazy to see Star Trek set in modern day Japan without any science fiction elements or familiar characters – yet somehow it worked!
Yeah, who knew?
What?
The movie ‘Lost in Translation’ with Bill Murray. It’s a riff on this episode title. I have stayed in that hotel before where the movie was shot.
A lot to unpack here.
First, this was the first episode this season that reached “mediocre” levels. And it is both cool and annoying that it involved Uhrua & Kirk. Cool because I’m deeply connected to those characters and so far Uhura is the only legacy character they actually treated decently. Annoying in that as much as I love seeing the legacy characters I’d rather they not invade another show. It has always been my opinion that this show is using too many legacy characters. Spock is a requirement but adding Uhura, Chapel & even M’Benga as regulars was just too much. As a result, I’m pulled both ways here.
The plot itself was decent Trek like stuff (for a change). The unusual things I noticed was how lucky for them that the storage of random flashlights on the ship happened to be right where they happened to be. And how many of those are on the ship? Yes, it’s minor but it seemed a little weird. I thought it unprofessional for Uhura to refer to Kirk as “James”. He’s a Lieutenant. She’s an Ensign. The lack of professionalism on this show continues to astound me. It doesn’t matter how much bonding they just did 5 seconds ago. And I’m sorry. But I still have a tough time with the idea that the Enterprise has a swanky bar/lounge on board. I know many will give reasons for it and sure, some will make a little sense. But it still rubs me as a little weird. And then there was the Gorn reference. Which was a reminder that this is a complete reboot and not connected to the Prime in any way. Which is also had me question why the bothered to hold on to the the “I met him when he was promoted to Fleet Captain” line. They themselves created a world where that simply doesn’t matter anymore. So why adhere to it at all?
In the end, I found myself far more interested in every scene involving Kirk. Especially the ones involving him and his brother. It’s because I’m just more connected to Kirk than I likely ever will be to the show’s regular characters. With the exception of Uhura. Who I feel they do fairly well. But they have really screwed up Chapel and Spock to the point that they don’t even seem like the same people.
OMG, you called this episode mediocre, so you REALLY liked it lol. I knew you would like one of them by the end of the season and it looks like we found it! You obviously still had your issues with it, many I agree with btw, but that’s still progress. And it sounds like you like Kirk more than I do, that’s for sure.
Yeah but I think I liked it, or at least felt it was better than the rest, for reasons that don’t bode well for the show. It was mostly Kirk & Uhura together.
But yeah… Kirk I think is still the best captain/lead in Trek. Stewart is the best actor but the Kirk character I find to be much better. And again, I LOVED seeing Kirk again. I just think his time has passed and Trek needs to focus on new people. It is just obvious the current group of writers aren’t up to that task.
See I still don’t love this Kirk at all. He gets slightly better with each appearance for me, but still only slightly. He just does not feel like Kirk to me at all. But I am happy you like him, ANY positive for you is a good one lol.
And I don’t have an issue with seeing Kirk again. I’ve always been a ‘go forwards, not backwards’ type of fan and would choose that 100% of the time if I had a choice. But since they ARE going backwards in the timeline, I’m fine with seeing him again, but something where he doesn’t feel shoehorned in like on this show. And I definitely don’t want another TOS reboot. But if they did a Kirk in the Academy show or his adventures on the Farragut, that would actually be more appealing to me because at least its something NEW and not more rehashes. But ironically I think having Kirk on SNW has now killed those opportunities in the future.
I said I like the Kirk character. Not so much Wesley’s portrayal. But this episode was certainly his best work as James T. Was it great? No. But it’s getting better.
I really don’t mind going back. I just would like to go back with new people.
Its not a reboot. They used some time travel shenanigans to move Khan, but otherwise this is a straight prequel.
I don’t know if I would use the word ‘straight prequel’ though. Let’s just take Uhura who now speaks more languages than C-3PO, has had personal interactions with the Gorn which she clearly didn’t know about in Arena, obviously knows who T’Pring is years before who was also a blank to her on TOS and its only been 16 episodes. I guess I can buy how close she is to Spock here but I don’t think they were that buddy buddy on TOS but yes friends.
I’m not saying this proves it’s an alternate timeline (and I know people will jump through all kinds of hurdles to make this stuff fit)…but it doesn’t disprove i either.
And I can’t even imagine where this character will be at episode 50 at the rate things are going.
Their approach seems to be to bend canon but never to break it. There was no indication in TOS that Uhura didn’t speak a lot of languages. They seem to be going out of their way to make sure that Uhura is never aboard the ship at the same time as T’Pring. She never said that she was unfamiliar with the Gorn in Arena. Its a bit of a stretch sometimes, but it seems that they are being very careful not to actually break canon.
The Gorn aren’t even the same species. Canon broken.
Christine Chapel isn’t the same character as we see in TOS. Canon broken.
The Eugenics Wars don’t take place in the 90’s as stated by the REAL Kahn himself in TWOK. Canon broken.
Spock’s the comic relief and apparently 99.9% Vulcan except when an alien species “repairs” him. Canon broken.
The Enterprise has a more swanky bar than Quark with musicians that put Will Riker to shame. Canon broken.
Yes, some of this is, to an extent, parody, but sometimes I feel like that is what this show is in comparison to past Trek. And to “break” canon only takes one major change. Since you specifically have acknowledged the Eugenics Wars timeline change, then that is the straw that broke the canon’s back.
“The Eugenics Wars don’t take place in the 90’s as stated by the REAL Kahn himself in TWOK. Canon broken.”
Actually this is a much stronger example and directly proves this show is no longer a ‘straight prequel’ when you purposely change the timeline of one of the most iconic villains and episodes in TOS. That proves the very opposite and in reality it’s a separate timeline since you can’t have a character born in literally different centuries on two different shows but somehow pretend it all fits together.
If they made the point that the timeline was changed in Picard for example, then that gives them some wiggle room because you can buy someone changed those events AFTER TOS happened even if they retroactively changed the TOS timeline in the past. But with SNW being a ‘prequel’ to TOS then it makes things much much messier because for Kirk and the others, Khan shouldn’t exist in the 20th century at all anymore from this point on….but according to TOS he still does. So either its a different timeline from TOS OR TOS shouldn’t be considered canon anymore. Which is it?
That’s why while I don’t mind the change, I wish they just left it alone completely.
Yeah, but the ‘bend don’t break’ argument is depends on who ask. I think they have bent on some things but yes outright broken on others like the Gorn. People can spin it a hundred different ways but the Gorn was suppose to be a brand new species no one in Starfleet ever encountered before, period. So to me, that broke canon. Now THAT said, I don’t think its a huge deal because A. This is NOT the only time a show has retcon first contact with a species and B. The Gorn doesn’t have any real presence in Star Trek itself outside of its first episode on TOS. We saw them one other time on Enterprise but that was just a side plot and it took place in the MU.
As far as the Uhura never seeing T’Pring thing, this is just common sense. Uhura and Spock are friends and as I said much stronger friends here than on TOS. They see each other every day on the bridge and we literally see them hanging out together at the bar after work. How in Kahless name would Uhura not know anything about T’Pring at this point???? It’s beyond unimaginable, especially since it’s clear everyone else knows who T’Pring is at this point. The entire point of episode four was taking Spock back to Vulcan to have an engagement dinner with T’Pring. Uhura clearly knows all about this woman even if they haven’t officially met yet (which they probably will soon anyway). And this is five or six years at least away from Amok Time
Put it this way, I have seen friend’s relatives and spouses who I have never met or been in a room with but know who they are and what they look like thanks to social media. I also know what’s going on with friends I haven’t seen in over a decade and live in other countries again thanks to the internet and its only 2023. I would think it would be pretty easy to know who your friend’s fiance was 300 years in the future even if you didn’t work with them side by side.
And of course Chapel also didn’t know who T’Pring was either in TOS. ;)
But we don’t know what’s to come. Maybe in the last episode of the final season of SNW all the characters experience some kind of alien/technobabble-induced memory wipe, leaving them perfectly in sync with what they seem to know/recall in TOS. I mean, why not?…
No. It’s a reboot in the same sense the KU was a reboot. Call it a time line change if it makes one feel better but in the end, the KU and this are reboots. This show even devoted an entire episode explaining that this stuff wasn’t supposed to happen that way and it was different. Just like in Trek ’09. The only difference is Trek ’09 people admitted it outright. Secret Hideout is too afraid to say it out loud for some bizarro reason.
But this isn’t an alternate timeline like the Kelvin movies. Apart from Khan happening a few decades later, this is exactly the same timeline. And Khan’s timeline moved around in the Berman era shows anyway.
It is exactly an alternate/reboot like the Kelvin films. Time travel stuff alters the prime time line to what we are getting in this particular incarnation. Everything is different. Gorn. The ship. Chapel. And the alternate KU like reboot explains everything.
I’m not familiar with Khan being moved around in new Trek. Are you suggesting they moved it to the early 2060’s?
It’s A) its own timeline or B) radically inconsistent with TOS. You choose, Hogarth.
It’s an alternate timeline. That’s the only way I can accept it. The number of changes (starting with the OUTRIGHT 180 DEGREE DIFFERENT Christine Chapel) goes way beyond the change in Khan’s timeline. In fact, if the move of the Eugenics Wars was the only thing they changed, I might have still been willing to accept this at the Prime timeline.
That established, do I think this is a reboot? Not right now. A reboot takes the general (if not exact) premise of a previous show or franchise and starts over. Technically, this is still earlier in the timeline than TOS, so it’s not a reboot. That would require starting from the point of “Where No Man Had Gone Before” because “The Cage” doesn’t officially count other than what we see in “The Menagerie”. But could this become a reboot? If they continue on past the point where Kirk takes over as Captain, then yes.
I still think of this, and the KU features, as reboots. They essentially just started over. And so does this show. Pretty much all the nu-Trek shows I think I can safely say are reboots now in every way except officially said by TPTB.
It was an okay episode to me, not a great one. The story was rather predictable and I still have trouble with casting for J. Kirk. The second episode this season with an unknown space-based lifeform with mysterious powers. I liked the moment at the end with Kirk, Spock, and Uhura.
The Enterprise seems cavernous and strangely deserted.
In this time, the ship only has 200 people and it feels MUCH bigger than TOS Enterprise which literally had double the people on it.
Overall I liked it, but just thought it was OK. People here seem to like it more than I did. The mystery was interesting and it was classic trippy Star Trek and the aliens were similar to the Voyager episode The Fight to me of how they tried to communicate but I feel still could’ve been a bit stronger. Felt like something was missing for me overall. Really liked Uhura and it was great to see her as the main character in this one. Making Pike tempoary Fleet Captain so Kirk can show up felt a bit lame, but they covered their bases I’ll give them that.
Speaking of Kirk, I’m sorry I’m still not feeling this Kirk at all though. Everything about him just feels like a distraction, but it was nice to have him, Spock and Uhura together at the end. And it was nice to see Hemmer again too but sadly I guess this is what they meant when they said we would see Horak back this season.
Oh yeah nice for the bar to feel like Ten Forward in the end with the jazz group playing. Again, decent, but not great IMO. If I had to grade it, I would probably give it a C. ;)
At this point do they really NEED to cover their bases anymore? They have mostly not been doing that and they even came up with a reason their new version is allowed to ignore everything. So I kinda wonder why even bother trying anymore?
I thought 10 Forward was odd on TNG, too but it did kinda fit with the more laid back TNG vibe. But having an even more swanky looking place on the Enterprise from the TOS era just doesn’t fly with me. Still doesn’t. Even with the “reboot we aren’t going to call a reboot” excuse it feels like a bit of a stretch.
No, it’s not necessary at this point lol, but I guess they feel they would already get some push back with Kirk there so soon so I guess they wanted to make it as much canon as they could. But it is funny how they seem to go out of their way to stick to canon with some things but then just basically ignore or rewrite other things. At this point, just make the show your own and just do what you want. Episode 3 already made it clear enough its in another timeline so yeah. And the people who like the show isn’t going to really care anyway and the people who don’t like it will probably not get on board by now either.
Dude this is swankiest Enterprise we’ve ever seen lol. You seen Pike’s quarters. His quarters make Picard’s almost look small and cramped by comparison. ;)
To me this Enterprise looks like a 23rd century version of a cruise ship, which doesn’t bother me at all personally. But once again canon wise it just doesn’t fit the TOS vibe when the ship felt more like bigger size battle cruiser in space. But we can also agree SNW is a more laid back show as well when compared to TOS.
The bridge is great (outside the monochrome colors…. the TOS bridge should scream color on those displays!) but you are right that the corridors and quarters could have been more TOS Star Trek VI style. Adds to the excitment of space travel when space is a premium and emphasizes that starships matter (see the Expanse for how those sets can be done cool).
I don’t disagree but The Expanse is a poor man’s version of Starfleet in terms of resources and technology. It is funny both shows take place in the 23rd century, but on Star Trek this version of Starfleet doesn’t believe in slumming it anymore like we saw on TOS lol. It was the same for the Kelvin Enterprise as well.
Like I said, it doesn’t bother me at all for being a very swanky and high class looking ship but it is very different from TOS obviously which went out of its way to feel as stripped down as possible but still very livable.
I think they have been getting push back since the first season with the Gorn and Chapel & “everyone knows about T’Pring”. That 2.3 episode feels totally like their response to it all. The thing is they wrote it and shot it before the first season even streamed. So it seems as if they KNEW they would have problems from day one. The people running this show seem directionless and to have no idea what they want to do with it. They go out of their way to follow some canon then completely ignore and change others. Then do an episode to explain why they can do what they want then go back to trying to follow canon. This show is quite schizophrenic.
The “Enterprise as presented by Carnival Cruises” I’m not a fan of at all. And yes, you can’t duplicate it. But, and I’ve said this a billion times, you CAN modernize it while still evoking the feel of the TOS version. This ship.. They didn’t even try. I just can’t help but think when the producers and writers say what big fans of TOS they are that it’s just lip service. Complete BS to appease fans. Sorry but that is how it looks after 16 episodes.
I do agree that doing their new time-line shenanigans probably should have been the very first episode. That would have allowed them to get away with their stuff far better. Doing it as the 13th episode over a year after the 1st season is just too little too late. People who didn’t care before still won’t. And it’s far too late to repair the damage seen by the people who were irritated by them playing so fast and loose with TOS.
BTW… I found TNG to be the more laid back show compared to TOS. SNW is kinda I guess based on how informal everyone is to each other primarily but I don’t think I would describe it that way.
My only guess with the canon stuff in season one they probably felt like they weren’t really changing canon much but at a razor’s edge at least to the point you can explain away some of the differences (and ignore some of the others). But when season 2 started, they knew they wanted to go even farther with it and knew they had to make up some explanation why Starfleet suddenly knows where Gorn space is, Spock and Chapel getting it on, Kirk showing up ridiculously early and etc. They knew they can’t keep going this direction and pretending like it was all suppose to fit TOS. It was a great move IMO even if I don’t think they needed to explain Khan or the Eugenics Wars, but fine. I don’t really care either way. I care more that they at least tried to fit in the time line changes more logically.
And I don’t mind the Carnival Cruise line look to the Enterprise. The Kelvin movies had basically the same direction minus the engine room lol. I just don’t get why EVERYTHING has to be so much bigger. The ship only suppose to have 200 people at this time but it feels bigger than the D in terms of the interiors. So its a bit strange in that regard.
And we agree TNG was definitely more laid back, especially because that was the golden age of space travel. The universe was much less tense in that time compared to TOS that both had to worry about the Romulans and the Klingons. Of course things would get much tense later starting with the Borg but really the Dominion war is what ended Starfleet’s run of not getting into a major conflict in probably a century.
SNW of course takes place in TOS era, but outside of the Gorn we haven’t seen them come across any major villains the way TOS did every other week lol.
Actually I forgot, there was a major war in TNG’s time with the Cardasians but it had ended by the time TNG started IIRC.
If they thought the S1 violations were “explainable” then they absolutely aren’t the people who should be running or writing Star Trek. Because they were awfully huge holes. Bigger than even Star Trek Discovery.
And the fact that we viewers are stuck guessing on what they may or may not have known and the fact that they did a “correction” in episode 2.3 just tells me they are simply not on the ball here.
For the record, I honestly believe the Borg were created because of the failure of the Ferengi in being their “big bad” and by that point they knew they had to find an enemy that absolutely HAD to have them fire phasers at someone from time to time. An enemy they couldn’t negotiate with or any of that. I recall watching the first season of TNG with friends and we were all wondering if the E-D even had phasers! I think they realized that even though Trek is often a very talky show they did need to fire phasers from time to time. LOL
It’s not the first show that changed or retcon canon, but it probably is the first that did it directly to many of the TOS characters specifically and I think that’s the main issue for a lot of fans.They needed a reason to explain it away since we know these characters will only interact more as it goes.
Sure I agree about the Borg, but they were only in 6 episodes in TNG and one of them were one of the talkiest episodes ever with I, Borg, so they were never a continuing threat like the way the Romulans or Klingons could be on TOS. It’s not until the Dominion war showed up Starfleet had a real threat they could use several times a season and we saw real battles again. The Romulans were around as well but they only showed up once or twice a season as well. It’s funny while it got close once or twice in the 24th century, they never went to war with the Romulans again.
This whole thing is a time crystal problem. The Pike we see here and the Pike from TOS are just differently drawn characters.
From DSC onward, producers decided to forgo what would have been interesting tension between the audience knowing Pike’s fate while Pike stumbling through making mistakes. Instead, he knows what’s up, he’s facing it with his charm.
If he can’t make mistakes there is not going to be anything interesting about him!
I think making Pike aware of his fate made him less interesting. I think the show’s writers obviously felt otherwise. I do agree with what you said completely.
That said since they altered their own time line I would say that Pike’s fate is no longer set in stone. The problem is he’s not aware of it. But Pike this season hasn’t even mentioned or noticeably thought about his future at all. Does that indicate that the new timeline also means that can change too? If La’an ever reveals here experiences to him he would realize that his fate is not sealed now.
The Romulan appearance at the end of S1 of TNG I think was also a response to the failure of the Ferengi.
But I’m not saying TNG wanted to do lots of battle episodes. Only that it was getting to the point where they knew they pretty much would need an advisory that would require it. Even if they didn’t turn to them that much. Hell, they even changed the nature of the Borg after their first appearance to make them even more menacing. I’m not complaining about that “retcon”. Such things don’t bother me that much. Sort of like it never really bothered my they had to use the Klingon model in “The Enterprise Incident” for cost reasons so they threw in the line of “intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design.” It’s silly but I get why and life moves on.
At its heart, Star Trek is fundamentally about connection. Reaching out, and listening, to those different from us, with all the joyful and not so joyful complexities it brings. In this episode, we find our crewmembers struggling to connect with one another. Uhura is struggling with her grief for Hemmer and her family, and hearing strange sounds. Spock and Chapel struggle over how to navigate their newfound connection, Una and Pelia spar over orders and regulations, and both Kirks struggle with the connection that is brotherhood.
As our characters struggle over daily mundane differences, something seemingly sinister is at work as sabotage is discovered and the saboteur dies. Meanwhile, Uhura’s hallucinations get worse, as she sees death in various forms and fights herself, accidentally punching a charming James T. Kirk in the process. Instead of being the reckless womanizer pop culture portrays him as, this Kirk is “a stack of books on legs” with a heart to match. He’s kind, thoughtful, empathetic, brash yet reserved, and ultimately kind. Instead of reporting Uhura for assaulting a superior officer, he does something quietly radical: he listens. He listens to Uhura and believes her, showing this Kirk to have the first stirrings of greatness that will come to define his later career. This is the Kirk who will one day cross unfathomable divides to bring an end to conflict, who can solve problems by listening.
I’d like to remark that both Kirk and Pike show great leadership here, trusting Uhura when she says the refinery is killing invisible aliens that only Uhura knows about. Pike protects Uhura from any blowback over the destruction of the refinery, and Kirk gets her to open up about her lost family. In the process, Strange New Worlds shows Starfleet at its most competent best, willing to put the needs of others over their own. Star Trek’s values are in full display here!
Some final thoughts: the B plot of Pelia and Una just did not work for me, and the criminal underutilization of both Carol Kane and Rebecca Romijn continues. Additionally, while I loved the scene of Kirk meeting Spock for the first time, I think it’s a mistake to put them together so soon when we’ve only had Pike’s Enterprise for 1.5 seasons. Kirk meeting Spock should have been saved for something more special, and given Pike more time. That said, this episode, whatever its flaws, shows Trek values at its best.
I give it a 7/10.
I enjoyed the episode and agree with your description of how Trek is about the connection between our characters and the universe they inhabit. I’m really, really looking forward to next week as a huge LDS fan.
Well it’s official, I dislike season 2. 6 episodes in and I dislike them all. Episode 7 is an automatic dislike as I despise Lower Decks.
7 episodes in season 1 and I liked 6 of them.
Oh well time to move on, atleast I still have Foundation to watch in the meantime.
Cool. Bye.
To be fair I stuck out season 1 all the way to the end and episode 10 was pretty decent. But at that point they had 7 stinkers and 2 “mehs”.
This season however has had 5 stinkers and one “meh”.
It’s S2 PIC all over again. But, I also realize it wasn’t made for me. If younger audiences love Star Trek this way, then cool, if newer fans like it, cool, but it’s not for me. I don’t see the DNA of Genes vision here anymore.
If you’re specifically a fan of TOS (and maybe TNG) then I get it. But if you’re an overall fan of Star Trek, DS9 strays WAY FARTHER from Gene’s vision than SNW. SNW at least tries to explore the “human condition”, which was part of the foundation of TOS and especially the TOS movies. DS9 went dark and went head long into death, destruction, and war. Pretty sure Gene wouldn’t have been much of a fan of that series had he lived long enough to see it through.
Foundation is my rage-watch show. Gorgeous, and Lee Pace does a great job, but the “Hari said the fate of the galaxy can turn on a single person” vibe is the exact polar opposite of what the books are about and so frustrating to see
You might want to do a re-read refresh because the whole point of the Mule in 2nd Foundation was that one single individual could change the course of the galaxy.
Absolutely! But that was not what Hari himself thought. It illustrated the fallibility of man’s intellect and thinking we could stem great forces.
Agreed. I do give the writers a lot of latitude because the way the original trilogy was written is not something you can directly build a movie/tv drama around.
BTW, you may have a different opinion, but I can’t stand the latter life Foundation novels Asimov wrote (with the forced integration with his Robot series) and I have removed them from my head canon for Foundation…lol And the original trilogy is still a masterpiece.
Yes, Foundation is profoundly difficult to do a straight adaptation of, and I’m glad the producers didn’t try. That said, it skews a little close to (what to me feels like) generic science fiction. I will say that their depiction of the Emperor and The Genetic Dynasty was a really solid addition to the setting.
After the Trilogy, my enjoyment of Foundation wanes significantly. I vaguely remember enjoying Foundation’s Edge and Foundation and Earth, but it has been at least 25 years since I read them, and at that time I was learning to enjoy reading, which coloured my perception of the books.
Between ADHD and mild dyslexia (neither diagnosed at the time), reading had been a real chore for me. Then I inherited a huge raft of 60s/70s SciFi anthologies, and found I could get through a quick story in a way that I couldn’t manage with larger works. I then worked up to longer stories, and I think it was around then that I read the Foundation Trilogy and its sequels. The sense of accomplishment of saying I read FOUNDATION was huge! I rode that high all the way into Foundation’s Edge and Foundation and Earth. But then I tried the prequels though and hated them. Go figure!
Sorry about your struggles, dude. Have you tried Audible instead of visual reading? I actually use that for nearly all person reading, since my job requires visual reading heavily.
I used to use Audible at work, and found that it kind of worked for me. Then a few promotions later I’m having to use my brain more actively, and I can’t listen if I want to retain stuff.
That said, now that I’ve got a diagnosis (and medication!) I’m starting to get back into reading and being able to finish things. Little steps. Thanks for listening :)
I’m enjoying Foundation, but I would prefer a more direct adaptation of the books. I know it would be a difficult story to adapt, but I think it would be doable.
I’m also just baffled that the one robot character keeps killing people, despite the fact that the Three Laws of Robotics are the only thing that most people know about Asimov. And I guess she’s supposed to be Olivaw?
I completely forgot that the only robot keeps killing folks. What a mess. It’s things like that which skew it towards “generic” in my mind.
I’m really hoping that we get a zeroth law explanation, since Demerzel is Olivaw in the books. But in the books, killing a human would cause a robot to have a breakdown even if they were doing it under the zeroth law.
Maybe there’s a “square root of negative one”-th law in this series: A Robot following the other rules cannot, by action or inaction, get in the way of the story they want to tell.
This episode confirms (again) for me that this series is not other Trek series, and needs to be judged on its own goals. I can allow myself to like smart comic storytelling – and give up hoping for adult and groundbreaking provocations..
Oh and ironically for me, in this episode, only Sam Kirk seemed to have legitimate and interesting positions on anything.
As long as I compartmentalize SNW into its own timeline, I’m fine. The moment I try putting it in with previous Trek, it doesn’t fit very well. I get it.
Another solid episode with a great sci-fi premise that set the stage for its characters to thrive with their own stories. I love seeing the George and James sibling rivalry, even if it was admittedly cliche. I appreciate the attention to detail in-terms of the Star Trek science and the unique vernacular we have all learned so well. Strangely, as a TNG fan, I feel seen with this show. The writers deserve praise for studying and appreciating the universe they are working with. Again, I can’t praise the production designers enough for their stunning work on this show, I just marvel at every inch of film.
Well said!
The production design is good, but I just wish we could see some more creativity by fleshing out more new alien races and “Strange New Worlds”. For all intents and purposes, this was another “bottle show”. No “new world” to be seen.
the show is criticism-proof at this point. the most popular trek ever and every look, line, and concept the greatest thing the fans have ever seen. very few pieces of art as commerce achieves this, certainly nothing before that had star trek slapped on its side. engage!
You sound like an anti-ML31. ;)
At some point, oldheads need to admit when the world is no longer for them and it’s time to be dropped into a volcano. that time – for me – is now.
What a bizarre mentality. So people in their 40s are too old? Considering they still have 35-40 years purchasing power and are far wealthier than impoverished young people.
No shit they’re more wealthy than young people. The world has changed a lot, especially in the last few years. That doesn’t make young people any less valuable. But in a few decades those impoverished young people will be the ones with the power and it’s better to get them now rather than scramble for it later.
I’ll be 33 next month. The window is closing fast for the particular nostalgia that I want to see (which is any kind of actual follow up to DS9 since PIC S3 actually failed to give that) and at this point if it hasn’t happened already then it won’t. So I need to accept that and step aside so Trek can move on and focus on attracting the generation after me.
That is incredibly stupid. For one you are ignoring decades of financial capital still left and also the younger generation is substantially smaller. Each new generation is getting smaller due to significantly lower birth rates. You wouldn’t be very good at trying to manage customer loyalty.
2000s kids are out there right now, dude. They’re in the 20s and late teens. Just ripe to be marketed to. And clearly for all the ~financial capital~ of the people from the decades before them, the streamers are still struggling. Admittedly part of that is poor managing on the parts of the streaming services but the rest of it is an over reliance on nostalgia for the people born in the 60s through the 80s and arguably into the 90s.
Lower Decks is the show for my age range. Yes it’s TNG nostalgia but at the same time Tendi’s hero is Jadzia Dax, Mariner served on Deep Space Nine itself and Brad Boimler loves VOY. They’re still pursuing the 80s and 90s kids. It’s also the show that has come the closest to what I want to see, first with the Karemma reopening trade with the alpha quadrant and then the Breen appearing just a few episodes later. (to who I say no wait come back what happened to Thot Gor and more importantly how have you been since the war ended) so of course they’re aware that we still have value. But at the same time it’s not entirely about us. And it’s not entirely about anyone born before us.
This is how I interpreted that comment and this is how I agree with it. If you want to bury your head in the sand then be my guest.
Do you think Trek when it originally aired was meant to appeal to just 40+ year olds? No! Pavel Chekov was added to attract young women as viewers! And now that that generation is all grown up and older, they act like they own Trek! But if they did Trek would be dead quick and maybe it would be resurrected someday but who knows how it would even look then.
SNW is trying to manage appealing to nostalgia for the TOS era while trying to modernize it to attract younger viewers. That’s the point here! Maybe most of the people here think of Kirk when they think of William Shatner but Kirk as a character is so much more than the actor and people really need to learn how to separate them. Yes you can prefer Shatner all you want but there are people for who Chris Pine was their first introduction to Kirk. And now for who Paul Wesley was. And if they come to love Kirk because of either of those actors and prefer them then at least they will have an appreciation for him as a character! Maybe they will go and watch TOS and be into it because they love Kirk. Maybe they will go find the 2022 playmates Kirk action figure in the clearance aisle of Target and buy it. And they will tell their friends of a cool character that they love now. Don’t underestimate young people. If you can get them, then go for it. Maybe then your franchise won’t die off when the fans from before get too old.
Let the past die. Kill it if you have to.
Exactly right. It sucks to suck, but unavoidable once you turn 40.
It’s not us that got old (I’m over 50). It’s the franchise.
I thought I outgrew Star Wars. Then the first season of Mandalorian showed me that, no, I still like SW when it’s good (second season was good too, but it grew old fast).
I love, for the most part, the first three phases of MCU. Then it got old. I didn’t change — I still love those earlier movies. The quality noticeably and distinctly dropped after Endgame.
For the most part, I enjoyed season 1 of SNW. It wasn’t perfect but I don’t need perfection. Season 2 is clearly and obviously weaker. Something changed at their end, not mine.
Going back a bit, I didn’t like the first two seasons of ENT, but the third wasn’t terrible and I quite liked the fourth. I didn’t grow younger. The show actually got better.
Don’t buy “fan fatigue.” That’s an illusion or a hoax. Or really it’s just an excuse the suits and never-were types use to justify why no one’s buying the crap versions of the good stuff they inherited. There’s no such thing as fan fatigue. There’s only producer fatigue.
“Good” and “better” might be considered an opinion, but it’s also a bit of a consensus, and as groups gather or evolve, what feeds into that consensus — what might constitute definitions of “good” and better” — evolves. There’s a cohort of Star Trek fans who see Strange New Worlds (and I suspect next year we’ll discover Discovery, too) as the pinnacle of Star Trek. Why argue with that? Better to interrogate why I disagree. I’m in the minority opinion.
As someone who grew up with first-run TNG and then DS9 and got bored with Star Trek around the time of Voyager and definitely during Enterprise, even by the time Enterprise had its solid 4th season, I was kinda tired of easter eggs and callbacks and the Berman era way of telling stories. I’m always looking for new and interesting. That might be a character flaw! But prior to that boredom, TNG and DS9 (and TOS when I caught up on that over time) told stories I couldn’t see anywhere else on TV and was a “brand” of mainstream science fiction that scratched every sci-fi itch/inclination. Now there’s The Expanse or For All Mankind or Kim Stanley Robinson helping me out there while Star Trek asks me to revisit some well-trodden trails, which I know are new to some and I guess I’m surprised by how many find the new shows that “new” or “fresh.”
Btw, I don’t want perfection, I want interesting. A lot of fans seem content with “because it says Star Trek on the screen,” and you know what? That’s a better way to live. They’ll never be disappointed. If something is considered by millions to be good or great simply because it exists, that’s kind of a marvel to behold. Very few things in life have achieved such a state of unconditional love. Even some parents have standards for their children.
I’m not sure that’s really a good way to go through life. Disappointment, like boredom, has a purpose. It’s part of the mix of experiences that drive us to improve.
I’m not going to judge how other people live their lives. I have to leave space for them to do that to me.
Good line! I mean that genuinely.
I think you took that not in the vein it was intended.
Seems so.
I really liked this episode and overall probably the 3rd best of the season after Ad Astra per Aspera and Tomorrow ATAT. I would give this one an 8 out of 10.
I really liked the continuing back story of Uhura plus the return of Hemmer played by Bruce Horak. Too bad they didn’t have time for more with him. I also like the serialized character development as clearly Uhura was deeply affected by the loss of her friend and mentor and in ways that became apparent in yesterday’s episode. Like Christina Chong did with TATAT, Celia Rose Gooding did a great job.
Despite a rough start, I have to admit that Paul Wesley has really grown on me as Kirk and I am happy he is not trying to impersonate Shatner. He is imparting the confidence and borderline cockiness of the character along with the charm and I look forward to seeing him again. I also really liked the extended epilogue with Sam and then Uhura introducing Kirk to Spock, who was once again miffed by Sam’s messiness. The scene and the last shot of the three of them together was understated, yet strangely satisfying.
Btw, it would have been too hilarious if the band started to play a jazz version of the TOS theme (like what was playing at the house party in Conscience of the King) to end the show, but probably too campy and ridiculous and over the top!
The overall story was not great, but a typical and good Star Trek science fiction story. Yes, there were a few hiccups and plot holes but overall as I said before, I really liked this one. Okay now onto the LDs crossover episode. I may not be the biggest fan of LDs, but I know many are and I really hope that next week’s episode lives up to the anticipation. I have to admit, I am looking forward to seeing live action Merriner and Boimler!
A little overstuffed but overall another great episode. I wasn’t sold on Wesley as Kirk in the season 1 finale, but I’m liking him more this season.
LOVED that it was Uhura who introduced Kirk and Spock, don’t know why but that just felt RIGHT to me and the shot of them together at the table gave me chills!! I said a long time ago that I hoped that Paramount might segue from STRANGE NEW WORLDS into a retelling of TOS episodes with modern tech and writing and every time we see something like that I believe it would work beautifully. Update that entire series for “a new generation”, so to speak. ;)
Actually that didn’t feel right to me at all. It didn’t feel wrong either but I always felt that Kirk spoke to Spock when he took over, looked at his record and decided he would make an excellent 1st officer. It wasn’t until later that mutual respect would lead to a lifetime friendship.
That said, this show has shown themselves this is an alternate timeline/reboot so the prime Kirk Spock meeting is still a mystery.
I do hope for Strange New Worlds to eventually, after 5 seasons maybe, transition to Kirk’s Enterprise….
However, it would be a mistake just to redo TOS episode.
How about the rest of the five year mission in canon at last?
The actors, Wesley, Peck, Gooding, will be 5 years older so they’ll be the right age….
Would love the very last shot of the series to be, like Star Trek Continues, the Enterprise entering dry dock and Wesley putting on the white and gray admiral tunic…
And heck after that do another series for the time between TMP and Khan….
LOVE how Star Trek Continues finished off the run, so to speak, and gave the transitional ending to ST:TMP. Thoroughly enjoyed that whole series! :)
I really liked Continues. It wasn’t perfect. They had flaws. But it was pretty obvious the people running it knew and respected Trek. In a way that Secret Hideout absolutely does not. It was really fun to see new Trek episodes that felt very Star Trek. And while I was not a huge fan of the plot of that final two parter I did like seeing how they bookended it with the ESP story at the Galactic Barrier and transitioned to the TMP style.
It’s heartening to know there are people who are not only able to, but can write Trek better than the people at Secret Hideout with the huge budgets.
this felt like a less clever version of the TNG episode “Night Terrors” I only say less clever because the resolution to help the aliens was more involved than just stop mining and blow it up.
uhura was the natural choice to be hearing these messages, but thematically it should have been la’an teaming up with kirk to solve the mystery and her coming to terms with her feeling for him from the time travel back to the 21st century.
the kirk stuff is fine, wesley does a good job, but i don’t know why we have to keep seeing him again and again. he fit the story in “a quality of mercy” and was interesting in “tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow”, but now are we gonna get kirk dropping in every 2-3 episodes looming over the show and pike? outside of the first season finale it feels too soon to be going to this well again and again.
i can’t get into the character pelia, and this episode reinforced why, i miss Hemmer. i still don’t know why they got rid of that character.
I think Pelia has potential, but now it’s wasted. They essentially created another Guinan and decided to go the opposite direction and make her comic relief instead of wise counsel. At first, I just thought she was unique and quirky. Now she seems to be a kleptomaniac who is insubordinate, immature, and doesn’t really seem to care how her actions effect everyone else. Not very “Starfleet” to me…
Uhura had her moments, but was frequently rude, which is a characteristic I will find hard to let go of. Her ordering torpedoes over Pike was shocking, even if he had just deferred to her. Going back to days.of Greek fire, no one fires weapons on a ship without Skip’s personal order. I can’t tell if that’s an extension of her surly attitude throughout the rest of the episode, or writers just not understanding how a ship is run. Similarly, Una does not outrank Pelia—they’re both commanders—she’s simply an officer of the line, and therefore the responsible officer. The “ugly bags of mostly water” trope was not unwelcome, with the clever language twist. Still hard to recognize Chapel as she’ll become, unless we brush it off as a Toronto Khan temporal investigations thing. Likewise, Uhura in TOS was unfailingly nice. After three appearances, I like Paul Wesley’s Kirk, and I can see him becoming the TOS Kirk as he takes on added responsibility. Costumes are still bugging me. The admiral badge worked on the Disco uniforms but they look weird on the quasi-TOS SNW uniforms. I would have just expected an extra sleeve stripe. The Enterprise lieutenants are still inexplicably wandering around in LCDR stripes, whilst Kirk is wearing the correct sleeve mark. (Unrelated note: anyone miss the wavy stripes? Or is that just me?) And last thought, in science lines, is deuterium is not poisonous. It can make you hypoxic if it displaces oxygen in an atmospheric mix, but otherwise is no more dangerous than sucking on a helium balloon and saying something funny.
That sort of informality has been present on this version of the Enterprise from episode 1. The mouthiness of characters to their superiors, etc. It’s just not professional and that element continues to bug me. Even the KU Enterprise felt more professional than this one.
Yep, I’ve complained about the informality too. Had some ex-military people chime in that it’s not entirely unusual on a ship or in other duty situations, but I just find that hard to believe when it comes to difference of rank. If nothing else, that’s not how it’s been established in pretty much every other version of Star Trek. Sisko probably had the least interest in hierarchy, but his crew still didn’t talk or interact like this.
As for Uhura calling for torpedos, I was a little taken aback at first as well. But I will say that she has gone for several days (if not a week) with little to no sleep, and I’m guessing her inhibitions are close to gone. Not to mention she just wants to end the hallucinations. Don’t forget that they drove the other guy mad! And Pike did ask what she wanted to do. He somewhat gave her command in that situation. It was a little weird, but he clearly stepped back and let her call the shots.
There’s definitely intentionality in the informality. They go out of their way to make sure characters say this is just “a job,” and in that way they’re all just pals working in, like, a restaurant trying to get fulfill corporate’s demands and serve angry customers (the galaxy). No hierarchy, just a shift with orders to fulfill.
If that’s the writers’ intent, they should ditch the uniforms and rank. “Hi, I’m Chad, I’ll be your server tonight. Can I start you off with some fresh gagh or popplers?”
Also, there’s no way the people making this show care about the details of the uniform or anything about the science. Uniforms are familiar iconography and the science terms are all made up. It’s just product. None of this really matters so they can play fast and loose with it.
My favorite episode of the season and I feel like these writers did the best Kirk of the series….. And Gooding’s performance!
I swear there were moments where Gooding and Wesley could have easilly been Nichols and Shatner….
And that last scene…. goosebumps.
Definitely!! :)
Wow, what a great episode. It had everything I wanted. Great Uhura showcase as well. I love how you get to see how Kirk, Spock and Uhura met and have a bit of a history together before actually all serving together. And for the diehard cononistas – it shows Kirk meeting Pike when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain. Just like in canon. Well played!
You can really see the beginnings of who Kirk will become. His swagger and even his speech pattern was good. I think Paul Wesley is doing a fantastic job showing us such different Kirks with each appearance.
I think the backstory of Una and Pelia was nice as well. It shows how Hemmer’s death really affected so many people.
Another solid hot for Strange New Worlds. I loved the first season, but season 2 is turning out to be fantastic as well.
In tears. This was THE BEST episode of the series yet. It had everything. I’ll write more later. I just had to say… wow.
Agreed. My favorite episode so far as well. This feels like Star Trek should feel.
This is my favorite episode so far in the series. Keep up the amazing work 👏
Interesting reading everyone’s comments. And I know I will be chastised for this but I have a big issue enjoying this show because it tries to be something it is not. I reject the notion that “all Trek is good so be grateful” because it isnt. The modern world of Trek is a watered down version of what we knew and an over saturated brand. Paramount reminds me much of how Warner Bros tried to rush to compete with the success of Marvel and it backfired. People say “yes more Trek please anything is good!” like a lot of junkies who cant live without it. My question to them is simply, everyone has their favorite restaurant, airline, store, brand, whatever. But if the brand suddenly lacks quality, and its not something that made you love it in the first place, would you continue with it? Im a Cheerios man but you wont catch me eating store brand toasted oats. Looks like Cherrios but tastes nothing like it.
I wish they would flat out just admit its separate from the original universe established in the other shows and that will give them (and the audience) more wiggle room. The problem is, this show is the product of a bad show itself (Discovery) because the producers backed themselves into a terrible corner by making yet another prequel to TOS that no one asked for. I think back to the void after Enterprise and fans were hungry for the adventures AFTER Sisko, Picard, Janeway. At the very least fans wanted a good conclusion to Enterprise itself. But they didnt go forward they went backwards, and then too many canon issues and violations and other things didn’t line up and fan outrage caused the producers to throw Discovery a zillion years into the future to bypass canon. They wouldn’t have had to do that had they not backed themselves into a corner. SNW has potential but its hard to get into the show when it feels far too contemporary then Im used to. People on board these supposedly military type ships talk and act like 21st century teens on social media. Would Janeway or Sisko, Archer or even Picard tolerate the kind of backtalk these people give Pike?
Picard season 3 was the best thing to happen to the franchise since 2005. And I wish they would bring in Terry Matalas to run the whole thing after these strikes end.
Just my thoughts but not the last word on the subject.
Something has happened. I don’t know what. I’ve really been struggling with Strange New Worlds. Through both seasons to be honest. I lose interest easily and find the episodes generally boring and simplistic. But I have really enjoyed the last two episodes, and this one was the best one yet. For me (and I stress “for me”) the show has finally really hit its stride.
I liked a lot of it. I got the Night Terrors vibe as well. I even think there was a musical nod to it when Uhura was in the corridor by herself, but I’m not sure after one viewing.
I would’ve giving this episode an 8 if it were not for Kirk. His presence keeps bothering my. Why do they feel the need to keep telling his story on Strange New Worlds?! It’s so weird. This is not his series. It makes the main cast feel like supporting character. This series was supposed to be about Pike, Una, Spock and the rest of the crew.
Last season we barely saw Una, and this season Pike is barely part of the main story. What is really going on here? Season 2 is giving off a weird vibe in that aspect, and I feel we’re not getting the whole story.
Anyway, I loved most of the episode, but in the end I’ll give it a 7.
“deuterium poisoning” is nonsense. Water is 0.1% deuterium and even 1% would have a minor effect. The right proportion of hydrogen/deuterium in air can explode!
Hi all hope you are well.
is anyone else able to reconcile that SNW is still in the prime timeline. I’m thinking that VOY and DS9 also make similar divergences especially where time travel is considered, and there isn’t the same scrutiny. To me SNW is still prime, in the same way Sisko’s foray into the Bell riots, and VOY trips to the the 90s are.
i was also thinking, that the Eugenic wars could still be moved back to the 90s through another temporal incursion that may take place between now and space seed