Star Trek: Picard was the big winner at the Saturn Awards last Sunday. At the event TrekMovie had a chance to talk to showrunner Terry Matalas about the final season of the series and get an update on a potential “Star Trek: Legacy” follow-up.
Gene Roddenberry received the Saturn Lifetime Achievement Award in 1980, just like the TNG is crew being honored with tonight. And Picard is also up for Best Series [which it won along with 3 acting awards]. So this is a bit of full circle. What was it about Gene’s legacy you were trying to convey in Picard and did you feel you were running into the so called “Roddenberry Box” when it came to character conflict?
No, I didn’t. I never really looked at it that way. I think what Gene did is he created a family. In the 1960s he created that diverse family of brilliant minds, and that increased when they went to feature films and it really became a family of sacrificing things for each other. So I think that was really what we wanted to do here was a season about a family coming together: the Next Gen family, the Titan family, the Picard family. And I think true Star Trek for me, it’s characters.
Season 3 spawned many memes, like the Shaw “No” moment… As you are putting together the show, do you ever think about how this or that is going to be a memorable moment?
No. You are too busy terrified about whether or not this is going to work because you have two hours to get the scene to really think about it. You hope. Sometimes when it cuts together, you’re like, “Man, I think this character is going to pop” or “I think this moment will be great,” but you never really know.
What is something that popped that you weren’t expecting or maybe something that didn’t that you thought would pop?
Something that I didn’t think? We ran a gag that Chateau Picard isn’t the best wine. It doesn’t taste the best. I didn’t think anybody would really pick up on it and people really, really picked up on it.
Michelle Hurd describes Seven and Raffi’s relationship status at the end of Picard as “complicated,” would you pick up on the Raffi/Seven relationship storyline if Legacy were to happen?
You have to. A first officer and a captain with a past? – well first, there’s nothing to say [about Legacy], I wish there was – but yeah, there’s a there’s quite a few storylines that we talked about from the beginning about where that would go. And it’s just such a rich opportunity.
Just to put a button on it, since Picard wrapped up last April – not counting the period during the WGA strike – has there been any discussions or work on Star Trek: Legacy with Paramount?
There’s not. They have Star Trek that they are making and they only have so much money and streaming space. There’s currently not, but we’re looking forward to whatever the Star Trek universe brings… and never say never.
Michelle Hurd as Raffi Musiker and Jeri Ryan as Seven of Nine in “The Last Generation” (Paramount+)
They just started shooting the Section 31 streaming TV movie with Michelle Yeoh. If they came to you with the idea of making a sort of Legacy backdoor pilot TV movie, would you go for that? Is it possible considering the logistics and sets and all that?
Look, anything is possible. We certainly wouldn’t be “Oh no, we aren’t going to do a movie.” For me, I would just need this crew, I would need this cast, and as long as that was a possibility, we would figure something out, yeah. A series is obviously ideal because there’s so many stories to tell. And the 25th century in general in Star Trek is such a rich thing.
People see the name “Legacy” and think it would be all about the legacy stars. But would it actually be more about the new cast and characters? Would every episode have a former famous Next Gen/Voyager/DS9 guest star in it?
Not necessarily, no. I call it “Legacy” mostly because it was in the 25th century. Like the idea of people from Deep Space Nine coming in, and Raffi and Worf, and Raffi and Worf’s son Alexander. I could sit and – let’s get a dry-erase board and break it right now. There are just so many stories from that era.
Terry Matalas accepting the award for Best Drama Series for Picard (Saturn Awards)
More to come from the Saturn Awards
TrekMovie spoke to more Star Trek presenters, nominees, and winners at the Saturn Awards so come back for more interviews and updates.
Check out our earlier Saturn Awards interviews: Doug Jones on Discovery and Tawny Newsome on Lower Decks and Starfleet Academy, We also have exclusive updates from Nicolas Cage’s desire to be in Star Trek and Danai Gurira’s almost casting for Star Trek 4. You can hear audio from these interviews and more in the latest All Access Star Trek podcast.
Keep up with news for the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
This interview has been edited for clarity.
“There’s So Many Stories To Tell”
Agreed. As Captain Jellico said: “Get it done.”
He’s an admiral now.
He got that done
Except that Jellico was rather humorless. If Legacy does happen, I hope that we can have some fun with it.
Jellico was still the same stuck in the mud character in Prodigy as well lol. Some people are just born without a personality.
More stories to tell? Perhaps. But the nostalgia and “fan service ” police would probably come out in full force. I want to be fan serviced I don’t care. So sue me. Alot of Trek novels were/are fan service products. I also will watch and try Starfleet Academy . There’s room for originality ( if it really truly exists anymore honestly) and tried and true. Life is too frigging short.
“fan service” is basically a derogatory term for world building. I’ve always liked shared universes. I like it when the pieces fit together. It’s fun. I don’t need to put it down and pretend I’m really too cool for all this.
agree 1000%
Huh? You and mini-Phil are mistaken. Fan service and world building are two different things.
Worldbuilding is the process of constructing a world, originally an imaginary one, sometimes associated with a fictional universe. Developing an imaginary setting with coherent qualities such as a history, geography, and ecology is a key task for many science fiction or fantasy writers. Worldbuilding often involves the creation of geography, a backstory, flora, fauna, inhabitants, technology and often if writing speculative fiction, different peoples. This may include social customs as well as invented languages for the world.
Fan Service is material in a work of fiction or in a fictional series which is intentionally added to please the audience. The term originated in Japanese, in the anime and manga fandom, but is now used across media. Additionally, fan service adds in something with no direct relevance to the story or character development into a media production for the purpose of pleasing fans.
Call it whatever you want, man.
Okay, just don’t call me late for dinner
I’m not sure when fan service has become such a nasty word in fandom, especially since Star Trek has been doing it in the last 40 years. But I guess there is a divide on how the classic shows did it versus NuTrek does it now. It does feel more in your face today but again that’s a bigger issue for Hollywood overall today. It’s all about nostalgia and, sorry, legacy. Every major franchise out there over 30 years old is literally doing the same thing. I would love to hear someone prove me wrong but I’m not. Star Trek is following the same trend of all of those.
And Star Trek from 2009 on to today has all done many times. Outside of Picard season 3, SNW is easily the worst culprit. They literally remade a TOS episode lol and yes an excuse to bring in Kirk. But most fans seem to love it as many did for Picard season 3. I’m not talking about places like this board, it’s a very tiny one and doesn’t represent the fandom as a whole. But most places people can’t enough of it and why I only see more of it happening. I’m fine with it, just as long as it fits the story they are telling, which can be the issue at times.
Also I think its overlooked that when a franchise gets up in years, the stories are going to inevitably feel a little derivative. Every franchise has to be true to itself and stick to a certain familiar framework, because that’s what people are paying to see. If you are going to get compared to the past no matter what you do, you might as well embrace it and make it a virtue.
Yep that’s certainly true as well. Again, look at SNW, it can’t get any more derivative if it tried…and yet people are loving it lol.
I think every old franchise just runs into a case where it gets harder to repeat itself, but same time people actually enjoy the familiar. Comic book stories are the perfect example. They have done every crazy story line under the sun for 70 years now and yet they are still popular because A. people like formulas, that’s why they work and B. there is always new fans exposed to it so it’s all new to them until its not. Rinse and repeat.
VOY and ENT were accused of just regurgitating TNG. Yeah, that was true, but that happens on every popular TV show ever made. They all follow what made the original so successful, just with their own spin on it. TNG obviously just copied what TOS did, because until then, that’s all what people thought of Star Trek.
Again, the perfect example is Discovery versus Strange New Worlds. Discovery to its credit really tried to do something different with the franchise we haven’t seen since DS9. But I don’t think it being different was the main issue, it just wasn’t very good while trying to remake the franchise. SNW just went back to what the fans knew from TOS-ENT and we now have episodic bumpy forehead alien of the week again where everything is tided up in an hour, the ship warps out to another new place and everyone is happy.
And we have stuff like LDS, PRO, Picard season 3 and as mentioned, SNW. LDS and PRO have a different take on what they do but it sill feels very very familiar as well. SNW and Picard season 3 are super popular because it’s comfort food in a way we haven’t seen since the 90s. It’s basically more TOS and TNG and few people are complaining about it.
In other words, they really did try to make Star Trek something different with Discovery and now it’s all the same old stuff. That’s what the fans seem to want so yeah.
The problem with Discovery for me was that while it tried to be different it also tried to be the same as well. Basically it wanted to get its cake and eat it too. Take the character of Michael Burnham for example, the character on its own I think would have worked very well but then they had to go and connect her with Spock for some reason. She could have just been an ordinary human who studied or grew up in Vulcan (maybe parents were ambassadors there or something) and it still would have worked, maybe even better. The connection with Spock here is not world building, on the contrary its making the world smaller just to get some fan attention.
Completely agree. Making a new character Spock’s sister just felt so desperate and nonsensical. They didn’t learn their lesson after Sybok??
All it did was backfire in their face instead.
The people who make that show are utterly clueless.
So true.
But it’s also why I am excited for SFA because maybe it will buck the formula as Discovery tried and just be it’s own thing. I would truly love that. It’s why DS9 is my favorite show because it was the DIS back in it’s day…just well written with amazing stories. ;)
But I also love what all the other shows are doing. Because yeah you can truly want both comfort food but also something inventive. Despite what some fans think, it’s not a binary choice. I would happily take a Seven show on another Enterprise in the 25th century but also take new cadets living on Earth in the 32nd century. I know, a fan who can be excited for both ideas equally, it’s shocking lol.
I’m sure it will buck the formula. But at the end of the day, it will still be warp drives, aliens, and transporters, which is what I meant by framework. There will always be someone making the case that it’s same old same old.
I’m not saying I care, just that it’s not my first day on the internet.
Also agreed. In fact I been saying literally since the show was announced that I truly expect the show to take place on a Star ship. I could be wrong obviously but every fiber of my being see them all ending up on the Voyager J at the end of the day. Or maybe it will be the Voyager K to really shake things up lol.
Obviously I’m joking but I see a lot of posts out there with people predicting the show will take place on a new Enterprise. That can be completely wrong obviously but it’s being said because it’s kind of a wish fulfillment to many people out there.
I don’t want to go into another huge rant lol but this is the problem. You have a big loyal fanbase who DON’T mind change in one way but same time always wants certain elements they exclusively define as what Star Trek is. When TNG appeared, people were probably split on new characters but it was no way they could have a show without an Enterprise. If you called it the Voyager it would’ve been cancelled in one season. ;)
DS9 to this day is still the only show to be it’s own thing and yet they still ended up with the Defiant in the third season.
And it’s nothing but ship based shows since. Again, perfect example, Picard really tried to buck the trend too in it’s first season avoiding being in Starfleet completely. By the end of the final season everyone is now back on another Enterprise.
And why so many are begging for the Legacy show now lol. No matter what they do, it will always come down to this. Because for most fans, that is ultimately what Star Trek is and it’s hard to get away from that.
Maybe SFA will prove me wrong. But trust me, if they do hang out on Earth in the first season and fans balk, they will be on a starship heading out to the unknown in no time faster then you can say ‘where no man has gone before’.
Also I remember reading back when the Abrams movies were starting, the argument then was you can’t do more TNG or even TOS on the small screen. Those days were over. If we ever got another show, it would have to be something wildly different than what they had been doing in the last 30 years. A new show would have to have a radical approach and can’t rely on the old formula to stay relevant.
Fast forward to today and all the new shows minus Discovery is just more TOS and TNG lol. Matalas, McMahan, Goldsman etc are all just doing what they grew up with. And now we have multiple shows that are literally TNG, VOY and TOS in all but name only because they know that’s what people want.
And there are people literally on these boards saying they want another TOS or TNG show. You can’t get away from it. Everyone is too obsessed with what they grew up with and TPTB clearly knows it.
They can do different shows within the framework of Trek and still use starships and the technology of Trek. The characters are the key factor here. For example they could do a Medical show taking place in the Trek universe or a violent/dark show based on the Klingons, or maybe something comedic with the Q etc.. or some totally new alien species. They just have to use their imaginations to come up with accessible characters.
Is it really “fan service” to just pick up where a long-running story left off and keep telling it? I just call it “the next chapter of the story.”
No, just continuing a series not fan service. Here you go:
Fan Service is material in a work of fiction or in a fictional series which is intentionally added to please the audience. The term originated in Japanese, in the anime and manga fandom, but is now used across media. Additionally, fan service adds in something with no direct relevance to the story or character development into a media production for the purpose of pleasing fans.
Some of these “audience pleasing” elements are those that tie together different parts of the franchise, that in effect create threads of unity and continuity across the vast Trek universe, which is a sort of world building. So not necessarily gratuitous as implied. Also, at times people have been shouting “fan service” at those who defend strict adherence to canon, as they imagine that fan service gets in the way of new ideas, many of which would require the stretching or breaking of said canon. You want to show things the way they’ve looked since TOS, instead of something entirely new? “Well that’s just fan service!” But it’s not that simple.
Certainly there is crossover and it’s not black or white where the border is between these two definitions — I agree with that.
Fan service? So basically Strange New Worlds then? No thanks, I’d rather the 25th century and moving forward.
The Raffi/Seven relationship was one of the weakest aspects of Star Trek: Picard. The actors had no chemistry and no interesting scenes together, and there was barely ever any indication they were actually a couple. Why in the world would anyone want more of THAT?
You must be so much fun at parties being a constant source of negativity.
Lorna’s not wrong though. Seven and Raffi was a big nothing. Raffi and Worf was far more interesting and entertaining.
Yeah, Raffi and Worf were great together. The biggest surprise to me has to be Frakes. He was great, better than Stewart I think.
There are 2 moments I will always remember in regard to S3 of Picard.The moment my jaw dropped when I saw that Picard’s interrogator was to be ,Ro Laren and when Riker kicked Picard off the Titan’s bridge. I NEVER saw that coming!
Agreed.
Raffi had more chemistry with Worf than she did with Seven. Seven and Raffi’s relationship felt as forced and non-existent as the Seven and Chakotay relationship did.
I blame the writers for being too chickenshit to explore their relationship
Maybe, but I also feel that the episode count is too low for any meaningful character development or exploration of relationships.
I would say in most cases you’d be right, but in terms of Pic S2 there was just so much filler in that strung out season that would have had plenty of time to fit this in by cutting a lot of that filler.
Yes, absolutely agree.
Why not argue for their merits as an onscreen duo instead of inviting another personal tit-for-tat?
Because M1701 is a negative influence here who enjoys attacking people.
Personal attacks are never a good response. Grow up.
Well that’s ironic.
– The Comic Book Guy
Jesus, this Raffi thing is like you’re me with LDS – you just can’t let this go – lol
A fault confessed is half redressed.
Yeah! You are on a roll today.
Listen, if LDS bothers you so much that you need to vent your angst every occasion you can, then so be it. At least you know what you’re doing. Apparently I’ve been pissing people off with some of my posts too so complaining about what people post is just, wait for it, hypocritical of me!
Thanks, I appreciate that. Take my advice — here is a famous movie line from Dirty Harry that I apply to myself:
“A man’s got to know his limitations.”
:-)
See, comments like that one never make sense to me. This is a message board. Each new article provides a topic to discuss. This article mentions Rafi and Seven, so I commented on Rafi and Seven. If the article were about Deep Space Nine, I wouldn’t have commented on Rafi and Seven. Why does my comment bother you? You don’t see me riding you about your hatred of Lower Decks. I respect your opinion.
I was having some fun given both of us have some obvious obsessions here — so some self-deprecating humor on me too.
If you felt insulted though, I apologize.
BTW, you’ve turned me around on Rafi with all of your comments — I agree with you now.
“They have Star Trek that they are making and they only have so much money and streaming space.”
Spoken like a seasoned showrunner. Streaming space is infinite. Money, on the other hand, is in short supply. Especially now.
If a series fails to perform as hoped, there’s always something ready to take its place.
In his favor is how he was able to deliver a popular and largely well-reviewed season on almost certainly a lower budget than season 1 or Disco season 4 or SNW season 2. There were times in the second half where it was very obvious and they could have benefitted from not having to do everything on the same sets, but the best story of the season IMO was “No Win Scenario,” largely a bottle episode.
But you never know. Despite DS9’s plaudits, Paramount never approached Ira Steven-Behr or Ron Moore to run a new Trek series, so it’s not all about reviews and fan favorites.
In the end we got a loving Valentine to TNG made by someone who knows and cares deeply about these characters and brought them some extra depth and meaty material to play with. It was not perfect, but it hit a lot of great notes and if that’s all we get with them, they now have a more triumphant send-off than was Nemesis (or Endgame).
And pulling off what he did with a much smaller budget demonstrated his strengths as a television producer and showrunner.
I’m not sure if Ron Moore had any real desire to revisit Star Trek but I suspect that had he been approached by CBS he would have taken things in much different and much more compelling direction after seeing how he approached “BSG”, “For All Mankind” and “Outlander” since his Star Trek days.
Terry Matalas has a lot on his plate so if they eventually decide to move forward with something and want his involvement, they’ll need to work around his schedule but even they can’t work him in, he pulled something off that for many didn’t seem possible.
Matalas is doing the Witch Mountain reboot series now. I am happy for him, and I think that sort of fantasy/lite scifi blend is perfect for his talents — he has a comfort level the mind-force, super powers stuff, obviously.
I disagree on the budget. I think it’s more likely that they had the same budget approximately as the first two seasons (not accounting for series start-up costs prior to S1), but for S3, the actors budget share (given they brought the entire TNG cast back + other TNG characters) was likely double of the previous two seasons, so they had less budget available for the other areas of production, hence the crappy, low cost VFX, poor lighting and derivative finale.
I was referring to the below the line budget.
Matalas said in an interview on top of the TNG casts salaries the budget was lower as well because the pandemic made everything more expensive to shoot, especially in season 2 when it was at its height and they shot everything back to back. And many things in season 2 went over budget as well, again due to the pandemic issues.
It sounds like by the time season 3 started, they had already spent a huge amount shooting season 2 unfortunately and had to scale down.
It’s really remarkable what he was able to do with more limited resources and time kind of like how great Meyer made a great movie in TWOK with similar limits.
Ah, well there you are then!
You can’t pin the lighting on budget, that was, somehow, a ‘creative’ choice.
Unless, of course, the dim lighting was employed to cover deficiencies in the standing sets. I found it interesting that in an interview published on this site the S3 production designer stated that if ‘Legacy’ was ever greenlit he’d want take another crack at the look of the show.
In any case, judging from the overall response (not just my own) I’d expect them to turn the lights up next time.
You can see the main bridge set in more light at the end of s2, it is pretty much the same bridge just tweaked. And I remember a wallpaper of it that filled my monitor (briefly) and the only defects I saw were aesthetic, not cosmetic. Plus the camera is far enough back from the screens most of the time anyway that nothing would show (and traditionally DPs have always been expert at shooting around defects or putting something in the foreground to mask them.)
No, I really think this look of Joffin’s was something he sold to the producers, and then the other DP, who was already onboard from s2, had to match to it.
Now if you’re talking about stuff like Amanda Plummer’s bridge, you may have a point. That was done almost Roger Corman style from what I was told.
A lot of the DS9 writers room ended up doing their own shows after that series ended
Of course. But Paramount still never approached them. Bryan Fuller on paper was a perfect person to reach out to though, until he wasn’t.
Yeah sadly true but we’ve all been saying this. I mean someone pointed this out in another thread, three years ago Paramount ws producing five Star Trek shows, but now they are only producing three. We have the S31 movie but that will probably just be the cost of 2-3 typical episodes. It’s not going to be Killers of the Flower Moon or The Grey Man lol. It sounds like it will have a very standard TV movie budget.
Again to me, they are just being short sighted. Yeah Legacy would definitely be the more expensive show but it will probably make the most money in the long term if it’s a huge hit in the base. Unfortunately the people running Paramount today only thinks in the short term. But they probably more worried of the studio being around long term than any one show or movie.
And yeah look at the Sheridan shows, those don’t sound like they are getting hung up on budgets or how many shows they are willing to make.
Well, unless they think about giving a Trek show to Sheridan, I highly doubt we will see more than 2 Trek live action shows at any given moment.
Yep, sadly agree with this.
Come on Paramount, give Matalas a series. Lots of us older fans liked his work.
Before someone says I’m old and I didn’t. Sure you’re old and didn’t like it. I’m just saying that lots did and this is reflected n it’s success.
I’d disagree about the old part – the main audience of this poorly written drek was aging Gen Xers clinging to their past while death stares them in the eye. I wish the writer’s strike was still going on – anyone involved in the writing of the hackneyed plot of Picard 3 deserves to be out of work.
Death stares everyone in the eye sooner or later. Nobody gets out alive. If you’re young now, you won’t be for long.
The window for his availability is beginning to narrow. At the very least they should be trying to retain him in some capacity by offering him a development deal before he gets locked in somewhere else. Retaining talent at Paramount has been a bit of a stumbling block over there for years.
Good point. Eventually Mr. Matalas is going to be presented with job offers, especially coming off a win like this. If/when Legacy (or whatever they decide to call it) eventually happens in whatever fashion, it’s probably not going to be discussed until Section 31 is in the can and they can reassess their Star Trek budget. Will the fans that want Legacy still want it if Matalas is unavailable to actually serve as show runner?
There are a lot more stories that Matalas is well suited to tell:
Jacko: A Star Trek Story
The Borg Powers Awaken
Rise of Picard
The Rigelorian
Rogue 1701
The Book of Harry Mudd
Attack of the Synthetics
The Collective Strikes Back
Return of the Picard
Hey you’re being subtle. Didn’t know you had it in you. Not sure I agree that Picard S3 borrowed too much from Star Wars, but to each his own.
Dude, that’s the nicest thing you’ve ever said to me. (hugs!) :-)
As long as the hug is a bro hug, with a handshake and shoulder to shoulder thing, I’m good. I’ve decided to tone it down with my posts. There are way too many sensitive types who take themselves too seriously (oddly enough you’re not one of them) that it’s not worth the aggravation.
Yep!
The Orgianian Peace Treaty II is officially now a thing. (And good to see.)
Lol, yeah!
The Legacy show is the only thing I truly care about for Kurtzman Trek. Season 3 of Picard felt like classic Star Trek again. I hated the first two seasons and turned one of the best characters in Star Trek into a secondary character in his own show. But the seasons were simply bad, season 2 especially. I gave up on it halfway through and didn’t finish it until season 3 started.
Fans should be pushing to get this show on. Especially something over Starfleet Academy that just sounds like will be a melodramatic teen show. That’s how the Abrams movies felt to me as well and they were supposed to be adults on the most important ship in the fleet but came off like teenagers. Embarrassing.
Matalas made his characters feel and sound like adults again. That’s why so many are excited about the Legacy show. It could be a show for adults again like the golden era.
I’m good with current plan, and I’m not alone. As for Pic, S1 was by far the best because it was true TNG-like Star Trek, it presented us with a real science fiction story with intellectual meat and issues rather than the space opera, superhero-like powers Star Wars-like BS in S3, plus Stewart turned in the best performance of his across the three seasons by far in S1. S3 was mediocre — you know my issues with it, but nevertheless it was well acted and nice sendoff for TNG crew.
S2 though was the worst Star Trek season since the abysmal S4 of the justifiably cancelled Enterprise series cluster-f&#k.
It’s clear Legacy is not happening. Fans need to let it go and embrace the new series and movie coming up. Really, it’s all going to be OK!
Don’t tell me what to do. Think what you want about anything. I don’t care.
And I’ll keep saying how much I want a Legacy show. You can move on though. No one is stopping you.
So it’s OK for you say:
“Fans should be pushing to get this show on.”
But yet you have hissy fit when I similarly say:
“Fans need to let it go and embrace the new series and movie coming up.”
How is my comment any different from yours in telling fans what they should do?
Hypocrite!
PS: And I’ll move on when I personally decide it’s time to move on.
I’m talking to the people who actually want the show genius, not everyone in existence who likes Star Trek. Hence the word…fans.
Does this really need to be explained to you? Are you still in school? Or really slow?
Stop wasting my time.
I’m talking to the people who actually want the show genius, not everyone in existence who likes Star Trek. Hence the word…fans.
So was I.
So again, you want to apply a different set of rules to what you can say versus what I can say. That’s called being a hypocrite.
And your childish insults and amateurish attempts to belittle me just illustrate your petulance and your lack of ability to control your emotions — you are embarrassing yourself.
Bring your A-game next time…this is way too easy for me.
Take season 3, replace all the TNG actors with new characters, and tell the exact same story.
Would you have posted the above? I think not.
Because the new characters mostly suck. Discovery characters are some of the worst around.
I had no problem loving new characters in the old shows and I was around when there was only Kirk, Spock and McCoy. I been a fan since 1968 and only knew those characters for 20 years.
For old farts like me TOS was the only Star Trek there was.
But somehow I managed to love new characters from TNG, DS9 Voyager and Enterprise. I don’t know how familiar you are with old Star Trek but I assure you none of those characters were on TOS either.
Even the old characters like Kirk and Spock suck on SNW. I’m not interested in them either.
So stop trying to tell me what I want. You obviously have no clue missy.
Was the sexism at the end really necessary?
Saying missy is considered sexism?
Since I’m a woman as well I guess I’m being sexist to myself too?
Sorry to Emily and myself I guess then. People can be upset over the weirdest things today.
It’s was a little extra. Emily is pretty one track and adds little, mostly trying to bait people.
Yes, apparently so.
Well said.
And this is what Emily do lol. Over and over and over and over again. Don’t take it personally.
I don’t really understand why it’s so hard for some people to fanthom you can actually want both ole and new characters? The issue with NuTrek unfortunately is the new characters just haven’t broke out in a huge way yet. I mean, the one character everyone seems to say they love is Saru. Maaaaybe Rios after him? After that it gets more hazzy at best. I mean in terms of a consensus.
But for me personally there are a lot of new ones I really do like like Saru, Mariner, Tendi, Rios, Lorca, Tyler, Rok, Boimler, La’an, Rutherford, etc. But are any of these more popular than Janeway, Sisko, Kirk, Bashir, Spock, the Doctor, Worf, Trip, etc. No, because I haven’t spent 20 years with those yet lol. It takes time obviously. But of course many could love the new characters over many of these old ones, but that’s how opinions work. It’s all varied.
But yes, there are certainly people who only care about the characters they grew up with. That is certainly true too. The funny thing is you mentioned how you like the old characters from the spin off shows but there was a time many old TOS fans didn’t accept those characters either. There were just as many people saying ‘Star Trek to me is only about Kirk and Spock’ back in the day. And the day wasn’t that long ago lol.
I guess I’m an old fart as well because I remember all of it like it was yesterday. But now you have probably younger people believing this is some new idea lol. It isn’t, this happend back in the 80s and 90s as well. Today all the 90s fans are who is watching Star Trek today and now SOME of them are acting like the TOS fans did back then and Star Trek is still Kirk obviously, but it’s also Picard, Sisko and Janeway as well.
For the record, I also grew up with only TOS on but I had no problems accepting the new shows or characters. I was the complete opposite, finally new characters and shows!! But I was also just a kid when TNG came on, I wasn’t some old guy stuck in my ways like today lol. Like many people who grew up with TOS and now TNG era, people can be very frigtened of change as someone once famously said. Oddly that statement seems to hold the most truth for Star Trek fans lol.
It’s history repeating itself. And guess what in another 20 years it will again lol. Everyone will be saying Burnham and Mariner are true Star Trek and these new people are just impostors no one wants. ;)
I don’t understand why are so many people so uptight here? One person seems really angry other people like Enterprise and another is upset people like to see old characters? I think Discovery is awful, I’m not upset because other people like it. Very strange behavior.
And fid I miss the memo where I said I would only watch new shows with old characters? I watch new shows with new characters all the time. I also watch new shows with old characters too. I been watching Law and Order since 1990. They have made nearly 10 shows and some with new characters and some with old characters. No one in the Law and Order boards are remotely upset about this very old idea in television lol.
Fun fact, Norman Lear for you youngins out there made some of the most diverse and varied shows in all of television. Characters from his spin off shows would show up in previous shows with old characters . Why, because they were established characters that the TV exes knew fans loved and would pepper them in the other shows. This was back in the 70ss and 80a. Not the 2020s but the 1970s. Crossovers became very common in the 80s and 90s especially.
This is how TV has always worked. Why this poster is shocked about this is someone who seems to only watch Star Trek and very little else.
And I don’t know any new Star Trek show that only has old characters in it on it. Even Strange New Worlds has new characters. So why are they so angry?
If you don’t like it, fine, but that’s how TV has always been in the last 50 years. Star Trek is a TV show last I checked.Very strange.
But as I established I watched TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT. TOS characters showed in most of those too. I welcomed it because that’s my favorite show and loved seeing those characters every chance I could get! Where does that imply I am less interested in Archer, Janeway, Data, Odo or Kira because I was happy to see Spock or Sulu make an appearance?
I’m actually a Law and Order fan myself. :) I haven’t been keeping up with it as much the last few years but I seen a few seasons of every show.
But yes, I hear your frustration lol. You’re right, all TV shows do this and has been for decades if A. It’s part of the same franchise and B.it’s established as a shared universe.
And that’s what Star Trek is, a shard universe. It’s not doing anything you will find on TV today. All the the cop/lawyer/forensic shows does it obsessively. The CSI’s, Law and Orders. Criminal Minds, Chicago and on and on have multiple crossovers every season. And all the Dick Wolf shows go even farther than that and set up crossover events where all he shows in one franchise share the same story line as an excuse to bring their bigger characters to the smaller shows. He that does with L&O, Chicago and the FBI shows. He has had characters from shows outside of franchises like L&O now show up in shows like Chicago and FBI because he established it as one universe.
Old characters have been spun off to new shows more times than anyone can count. They been doing this for literally over 30 years now once SVU came on the scene. No one cares and since there are now way more shows than Star Trek shows have right now it’s obviously working and on multiple networks.
But Star Trek, it’s a sign the franchise is near collapse lol. I love these boards but sometimes I really want to put my head through a wall. They don’t have to like it, but calm down. This is what TV and Hollywood in general always does. I think most Star Trek fans look at Star Trek as ‘above’ those other shows and see it differently because we look at it as more than a TV show at times.
But I really hate to break it to people, it’s still just a TV show like everything else and uses the same rules and gimmicks to keep that loyal audience loyal. People who want to see a character they love on a new show has happened on every show out there that is older than ten years old.
But I will say I think in the Berman era, because the TPTB mostly bucked this trend by having all the new shows with all new characters and not a spin off of Riker commanding Voyager has made people like Emily more appreciative of that time and wants to see that trend continue. I totally get that and love it too. And it HAS in some of the new shows, ie Discovery and Lower Decks both started off with completely new characters. Why this gets ignored over and over I don’t understand it. But when you have 5 shows on and nearly all of them exist in the same time frame as legacy characters do you shouldn’t be shocked to see legacy characters lol.
I can’t think of a single TV show with spin offs has not done the same thing in the last 50 years.
I’m actually a bigger Law and Order fan lol. But I been watching Star Trek way longer.
I also watch Chicago too and they have crossed over L&O characters multiple times too. Those are really fun. A big reason I love Organize Crime so much because they brought Elliott back. But I love all the new characters too. Olivia also shows up every season on there roo and she’s the main lead in SVU for over 20 years. These are iconic characters in that franchise so fans enjoy seeing them again. We also enjoy all the new characters too because unlike Star Trek L&O actually has a big turnover rate with their characters.
But it’s become a big franchise so many do come back and appear on other shows too like Elliot. He left SVU 15 years ago and now he’s back on a new show. No different then Picard and Seven when they finished TNG and VOY and now back in Picard.
I don’t understand how people can get so uptight about something that has been a fixture of TV for so long?
And she obviously missed my main point is that I want Legacy because it will feel like a grown up show again. If I only cared about old characters then I should really SNW since they have every old character showing up there too. I should be more excited about that since Kirk and Spock are literally my two favorite characters.
And yet I don’t really care about that show. That should give her a clue she has no idea what she’s talking about.
People like this wants to mouth off and have no clue what they are talking about. She completely avoided what I even said. People like that just seem to be bitter in real life when all they want to do is have useless arguments with everybody over a computer.
I will also agree though the old shows in the golden era went out their way for the main characters to be new. Obviously I like this idea very much since I made clear I like all those shows too.
But not sure where it stated every Star Trek show should only have new characters? This is certainly not a rule in TV. And If that was true hardly anything in Secret Hideout would even exist. But maybe explains why she’s so bitter outside of them being mostly bad shows too.
My advice stop watching those shows then.
Also I remembered how many of my TOS friends at the time thought the idea of making a Star Trek show with new characters was blasphemy. I didn’t understand it either. Gene was making a new show in a new century of course they would be new characters it was a new show.
I would’ve loved if he brought back all the old characters at the time. I still love them the most today. But even to me at the time it made sense to make new Star Trek for new fans. We were still getting TOS movies on top of it so what was the problem?
But many TOS fans were stuck in their ways. I can’t tell you how many of my own friends at the time refused to watch the show and predicted it would be cancelled after one season. Instead it ended up staying in TV twice longer than TOS did lol.
I didn’t think I would love TNG either. I had no problem it was a new show but it really sucked in the beginning. Today Discovery makes early TNG look like an Emmy nominee.
What I don’t understand is TNG started bad but it was the first new show, it was going to take time to figure it out. Discovery is the sixth show and it’s the worst one by far. And then Picard was just as bad. Kurtzman Trek is awful. They don’t seem to understand what makes good Star Trek IMO. SNW is better but still very mediocre with nonsense canon.
Very true. They’ve created some new memorable characters and shows nearly 60 years after TOS – that’s a friggin’ privilege for anyone who enjoys Star Trek and shouldn’t be taken for granted or discounted.
As for the use of legacy characters, time spent on them in the past pays dividends later, which can sometimes be fan service shortcuts but often returns have real dramatic purpose.
The more poignant episodes of most of these shows only come after we’ve gotten to know the characters properly, after the writers have found the little things that inspire them. TWOK works in great part because it’s a treatise on aging and legacy. It would lose so much poignance if we didn’t have 16 years’ worth of stories about these lived in characters we cared so much more about.
Very well said as well. And notice, no one was upset they were using Khan to be in a movie. Not quite the same reception with STID though lol.
But that’s also the point, it’s all fan service people, all of it because end of day, no matter how you justify including 30+ year old characters in new stories it’s ultimately being done because someone thinks fans would like to see them return. TWOK was obviously done in an organic way where it made sense for Kirk to confront his own past. So it worked. But Harve Bennett also said Khan just seem like a character people could revel in and why he wanted him. Also why it didn’t work in STID because none of those themes worked in that movie. Khan was just another guy Kirk had zero attachment to in a story that didn’t even need Khan in it and why it felt like lazy fan service but I digress.
But end of day people want to see old characters because they feel like they are part of their family, even the bad ones (in my family especially the bad ones lol). Some fans also know more about these characters than their actual families lol. That’s just a hard thing to turn away from especially when given the opportunity to see them again.
Frankly, I think this is one of the best posts posted here in a long while. Well put, Legacy.
Thank you.
Except that he’s baiting fans of shows he doesn’t like with very insulting comments on them. I don’t have a problem with that so long as he doesn’t then act all high and mighty about when others do it too — which is what he’s doing here with his laughable “oh I am so surprised people are doing this” fakey BS.
He obviously baits people and then fakes like he’s so surprised when they push back and pretends he’s better than that. Well he ain’t fooling me, and I would suggest you look at some of his other posts before commenting on how supposedly insightful this dude is.
Also agree per usual Danpaine!
I have to agree here, the writers of SNW have written Spock as a really annoying comic relief character, I can’t stand this version of spock. He is probably the worse character in the show. The best character by a mile for for me was the engineer in season 1 and he was killed off to be replaced with another sitcom character as the new engineer .
Season 2 it is very hard to take SNW seriously with such poor writing which is a shame as season one had it’s really good moments when you take away that stupid Spock sit com episode.
Yes exactly. I was very excited about SNW when I heard it was coming. I was curious about how they would handle Pike and see various characters from TOS. I thought it was going to be a slow burn type of show and got to see real professionals like TOS and the challenges of being one of the few starships heading into the unknown on a 5 year journey.
I couldn’t have been more wrong. It started out OK but immediately they turned everyone into a comic relief and forced jokes everywhere like a CW show. And Spock, one of my favorite characters of all time and had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Nimoy twice, has been ruined turning this Spock into a constant punchline and silly situations like switching bodies with T’Pring or turning him into a bratty teenager in another episode, someone who is nearly 40 years old.
And don’t get me started with the sitcom romance with Chapel. It’s like they are on a teen beat show. How they set up the Spock and Christine dynamic in TOS was thoughtful and realistic. Someone who has feelings for someone who chose not to feel. I know that Chapel today would be problematic for many but they made them act like immature children with freshman crushes. And why does everyone talk like they are still in college? They act like they are living in a dormatory and not on a starship.
It’s embarrassing.
I think Ethan Peck actually does a good job playing Spock but the material they given him so far is beneath the character.
I did like Hemmer though…and then they killed him off for another comedic character and no depth either.
I understand SNW’s lighter angle bother some people and I think others wanted it to be a more serious show in the vein (or is it vain??) of TOS/TNG/DS9. I think why it’s more light is probably due to it being an over correction of the reaction fans had to darker/cynical stuff we got in DIS and then Picard earlier seasons.
There was so much complaining these shows were trying to be too edgy and dark for edgy and dark’s sake (I mean in DiS they wouldn’t stop eating people and in PIC they literally tortured Icheb on screen). They just took it to over the top. And I think when people saw how much they loved Pike and his ;aw shucks, I like telling dad jokes very friendly cool dad persona’ won over people so quickly, then that basically became what SNW became as a show when they developed it.
Again, you would never know both DIS and SNW were made by the same people. They are just so night and day of each other, especialy their first seasons. But while DIS kind of wallowed in the muck and darkness where you feel almost depressed when an episode was done, SNW was designed to put a smile on your face and remember that Trek can actually just be fun again.
But believe me, if Bryan Fuller decided to make a Pike show than Discovery back in 2016, it would be much more serious and adult like DIS started out as. I don’t think we would have this version of Pike either but close to The Cage.
And I will agree, they probably took it a little too far in some places, especially in season two. I think season one had a better balance between uplifting and silly episodes with a few edgier stuff but still more tame where people didn’t just question what did they watch? But season 2 it just felt a little too light at times. And yes I also hated the Spock and Chapel thing. It came off a little more mature in season one and then it just turned into 90210 in season two.
Hopefully season 3 will have a better balance and less goofy things although they may go even bigger with it. I guess we won’t know until we know what the episodes are.
Also agree about Hemmer. I actually like Pelia but I still wish Hemmer stayed.
Hemmer was by far the most interesting character on SNW and then they kill him off, why ffs? then they bring in basically Latka’s wife for more comic relief.
The series it so disjointed to me, we have a Disney musical followed by a poor gorn episode finale that was just awful, just to show us the series can be dark again and a bit more serious.
I was actually looking forward to episodic Star Trek again but SNW was just throwing in gimmick episodes desperately trying to be original in season 2.
It needs to drop the soap opera romances and get back to good science fiction original stories, but very doubtful with the awful writers they have.
2 or 3 half decent episodes out of 10 and the fans are waxing lyrical about how great season 2 was and that really doesn’t bode well for season 3.
I own every single live action Star Trek series on physical media, SNW season 2 is the first time I decided to give a season a miss and I have season 1 on UHD Blu Ray.
Oh and I tried to watch that musical episode. I turned it off halfway through. And then they turned them into cartoons in that Lower Decks episode??? That episode wasn’t too bad actually but just more unnecessary comedy.
I don’t even want to imagine what silly gimmicks they have for next season. They will probably turn them all into Muppets or something.
Well if Q shows up next season then anything is possible. ;D
So you don’t like any of the new characters on any of the new shows. I think it’s fair to say you just want legacy characters, old nostalgia-enfused characters.
Emily who is YOUR favorite characters??? Because someone who spend so much time telling other people off who has the gall to really like Pike or Riker, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a post of yours actually discuss your favorite new characters at all. Maybe I just miss all those posts but all you mostly do here is just whine about other members and most of the shows. So here is something new for you, spend three lines discussing which new characters you actually like.
Do you just copy and paste your comments? You have posted this same comment several times.
So I will repeat my answer again… Yes. A resounding, yes.
You act like plot is more important than character and that characters and plot have no bearing on each other.
I’m in the camp a show will eventually happen, but yes emphasis on ‘eventually’. ;)
In fact, I agree with Michelle Hurd’s thinking they just have to let the new stuff come first like SFA or Section 31. Once those arrive and the studio eventually says ‘OK, what’s next’ then that will be the time for Legacy to happen. Again, I ALWAYS have to stress this, it isn’t a guarantee obviously, but it is the most obvious one to get made the same way SNW was.
That’s why people just have to have patience. Paramount obviously saw the immense reception season 3 got, the problem was there was never any intention to make more once Stewart said he was done and they just moved on to other ideas. Everyone who keeps saying Legacy is just an idea is 100% correct. Guess what, every movie or show is just an idea until someone approves it lol. Hopefully it will happen.
And that’s why Terry was so smart in what he did. He could’ve just let the last episode completely tie up Picard’s story and go no farther with it, ie, what they did with Nemesis. Instead he set something up that got fans excited about the possibilities and here we are all talking about it nearly a year later.
I really want to see this happen because I just want more 25th century stories and I think they can introduce even more new characters while keeping some of the older ones while building on new mythologies for this era and expanding older ones. The possibilities are endless.
I suspect after Section 31, they’ll say “what’s the next paramount plus movie?” and they’ll think about the Legacy talk, how they hype is already there, and how it would make a good 60th anniversary special. Matalas may be there, he may not be there. Depends what he’s up to at the time.
In some ways I think he’s not doing himself any favors by calling it Legacy. Just say you want to do a show that picks up with Seven where you left off and be done with it. Anything fan pleasing that comes along with that is gravy.
Yeah great point. And he said in that interview he would be down to do a movie if they suggested that as the next thing as well.
But that’s why it’s really bizarre (and short sighted) for people to keep saying move on. No one knows what is coming next and I’m pretty sure that includes Paramount themselves. If they said they simply don’t want to do it and/or say they have other projects to keep them going for another decade, that would be one thing. In this case, they are simply in a holding pattern until they have to decide what’s next. And that will probably come in the next 1-2 years, especially if one of their current shows gets cancelled.
Has Paramount released what they plan to do with the franchise after SFA airs? No, well then now you know why it’s important to keep pushing for the show then because maybe that will convince them that should be the next thing to do next, riiiiight? I know, logic works differently online but yeah.
Maybe it will be Legacy or maybe it will be something else but it would probably be on the table at least considering how much fans want it (and keep saying so). It still may come down to money or other issues in the end but I have a feeling they will figure something out if they really want to do it in the end, even if that means getting other streamers involved to help finance, ie, what they partly did with Discovery and Netflix.
So now Matalas wants to bring in legacy character #458 Alexander. Does this guy have any original ideas, ever?
Lol, Great point Emily
I actually rather like Alexander, and I’d be down for an Alexander story. But there are no actual Alexander stories, only “Worf Is A Terrible Father Take #Infinity” stories. That point has been made and driven into the ground, and I don’t have a desire to revisit it.
Alexander is one of the most Trekkian characters there is. Caught between two worlds, trying to find the balance. Raised by an emotionally distant single parent. There’s material to be mined there.
Or… here’s a wacky concept… TELL NEW STORIES WITH NEW CHARACTERS.
Of course not. He has no talent.
I’d actually like to know what happened to Alexander. I know you cannot stand anything that came before beacuse you want some generic characters in a generic sci-fi show… but the fans do want to know what happened to these characters, where they are, what they went through.
“you want some generic characters”
No, I want new characters. But thank you for proving my point that that’s what all this nostalgia pandering and fan service has done, turned fans off the idea of new characters.
New characters yes, but they are obsessed with prequal shows
Star Trek has to be Kirk era and before for some reason. Since Voyager finished we have had 3 prequel series and 3 prequal reboot movies, it’s getting a bit stale.
As much as you dislike Picard at least wasn’t another friggin Star Trek prequal.
Unless they can rehab Alex like DS9 did with Ferengi, this is one of the lousiest ideas ever. I’m not even much of a fan of Klingons to start with, outside of TNG’s MATTER OF HONOR and John Ford’s novel THE FINAL REFLECTION.
This guy will just regurgitate old TNG episodes.
It could be argued SNW is already doing that with regard to TOS episodes. For instance, the inferior remake of Balance of Terror. Interesting, but inferior, imo.
Dude you are just giving A34 more ammo lol. He hates SNW too because it took the spotlight off his precious Discovery. That’s the show people should be loving and praising. Yeah, good luck with that lol.
Same reason he’s so bitter over the Legacy show.
And I liked that episode but yeah agreed. And just more proof all these shows rely on fan service and call backs, SNW being the biggest culprit.
I don’t hate SNW. I just dislike nostalgia fan service. Hate is a strong word Tiger. We have too much hate in the world as it is. Don’t add to it Tiger. Be Better.
Uh huh.
I know. Just thought I’d give normal discourse a shot. :)
Yeah, good luck with that lol. Appreciate the effort though.
Picard season 3’s stories didn’t really remind me of TNG episodes though, beyond “Conspiracy.”
That’s probably because TNG episodes were well written. I can barely remember anything of the plot of Picard S3. I just remember Shelby, and Tuvok, and Moriarty, and Ro, and the Borg Queen, and Lore, and the Enterprise-F and the Enterprise-G, etc etc.
Thank you Terry for that amazing season. It’s the only season of modern trek I have watched more than once. I’ve definitely watched it 10+ times….
For me, modern day trek is in the 25th century. I hope live action trek returns to that era someday.
It’s the only show I really care about too in the Kurtzman era. Don’t care about the others much.
I want to see Trek keep going forward. Prequels only make things messy like Discovery and SNW.
Agreed!
Not if the writing is as unoriginal as it was in Picard S3
Bet you love Strange New Worlds 🤭