Interview: Paul Wesley On Kirk’s Evolution Into ‘Strange New Worlds’ Season 3 And Readiness For His Own Series

(Saturn Awards/Paramount+)

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds was nominated for six Saturn Awards, and actor Paul Wesley came away with the show’s only trophy, for his guest role as James T. Kirk in season 2. TrekMovie had a chance to talk to Paul (before and after he won) about his evolving performance as James T. Kirk, his return in season 3, and whether he is ready to step into the captain’s chair to star in his own Star Trek show.

You started off with one episode in season 1 and then three in season 2; did you feel like you needed that first one to get it under your belt to get used to it, and was it weird that even in your second time it wasn’t the “real” Kirk either?

Yeah, to be honest with you, what I liked was that it kind of wasn’t the real Kirk, in the first episode. So I was like, “Okay, let me get my footing, let me see what’s happening here,” because this is a Kirk that exists in an alternate reality. And I think once I got a little settled, then I approached season 2 in a completely different way and I was able to sort of maybe learn from those mistakes. And I love for me, Kirk evolves and Kirk is constantly evolving and he is evolving because he’s growing up. He’s not the Kirk that we know from The Original Series. So I’m able to just sort of do things that perhaps an actor wouldn’t be able to do if it was in the same exact time period. And so I’m really grateful that I can sort of gradually grow into the character.

Kirk is such an iconic character, but there is also a cliché of Kirk in popular culture. In season 2, your portrayal went in the other direction, leaning into how smart he was, playing chess and stuff like that. Was that something you researched about the character?

Yeah. There’s a great book called The Autobiography of James T. Kirk that I’ve read that actually goes into Kirk as—it humanizes him in many ways. And I’m not suggesting he wasn’t humanized in The Original Series, but there was something, he was very evolved. And it was very much an episodic show. And Kirk in season 1, episode 4 was very similar to the Kirk in season 2, episode 3. So, what I loved about The Autobiography of James T Kirk and what I loved about looking into canon and Memory Alpha and studying all those things was that Kirk really was sort of a bookworm. He was a very serious guy at times. And he also had a lot of charisma and all that, but I think I wanted to explore those layers and do something different. I wanted to do something that perhaps people didn’t automatically think of when they thought of James T. Kirk.

You are recurring again in season 3?

Yes.

More or less episodes than season 2?

I am not allowed to quite say.

Any fun Kirk/Scotty moments, now that he is there too?

Scotty’s there although I have not had any moments yet.

Celia Rose Gooding as Uhura and Paul Wesley as James T. Kirk in “Lost in Translation” (Paramount+)

Your recurring role could be seen as the longest backdoor pilot for your own show. Let’s say after a few years of Pike, [showrunner] Henry [Alonso Meyers] or whoever is like, “It’s time for you to take over.” Would you do a series regular starring role?

First of all, I would one hundred percent do a series regular starring role, one thousand percent. But I think Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, the pre [Kirk’s] Enterprise is so fascinating. It’s so well done. It’s a huge hit. Anson Mount is brilliant. I don’t think that show is going anywhere, I don’t want that show going anywhere anytime soon. I think it would be something that—who knows? Maybe it will happen, but I don’t think it would happen certainly any time in the next—I think there’s a long road to explore here with Strange New Worlds and I’m just really happy to be a part of it.

Pike, as they say, has a hard out, as it were…

[Laughs] That is true. He does have a hard out. But who knows? I don’t know when that is, do you know what I mean? But yes, he does have a hard out, as we all know. [Laughs]

And if and when that happens, are you ready to step into the big chair?

I’m ready but also very happy to be where I am now exploring Kirk on Strange New Worlds.

Paul Wesley with his Saturn Award for Best Guest Performance (Saturn Awards)

QUICK CHAT WITH PAUL IN THE PRESS ROOM AFTER HE WON THE SATURN AWARD

Congratulations on the award, did you expect this?

[Laughs] No. First of all, I wasn’t expecting the nomination, and I certainly wasn’t expecting to win. It might be a clerical error, I’m not sure. Yeah, I’m just blown away and honored.

This is your first Saturn? Did you win for Vampire Diaries?

No. I won a People’s Choice Award and I won a Teen Choice Award, but never a Saturn. I hate to say it, but this is much cooler.

I know you had done Vampire Diaries conventions, but now you are doing Star Trek cons…

Yeah, I did one actually and Bill [Shatner] was there in in Las Vegas with my buddies over at Creation Entertainment and it was so cool, because just totally different crowd. It’s a totally different, obviously more adult, and they talk to you from a very sort of intellectual place. And they really want to share sort of ideas and opinions with you. It’s much less sort of—for lack of a better word—like fanboy or fangirl. It’s much more, “Hey let’s talk about this character” and why this character is so important to me and to you and to and for everyone. It’s a totally different energy.

William Shatner with Paul Wesley and Dan Jeannotte at STLV 2023 (Photo: Jon Spencer/TrekMovie.com)

More red carpet interviews from the Saturn Awards

TrekMovie spoke to more Star Trek presenters, nominees, and winners at the Saturn Awards so come back for more interviews and updates.

Check out our earlier Saturn Awards interviews:

Doug Jones on Discovery

Tawny Newsome on Lower Decks and Starfleet Academy

Terry Matalas on Picard season 3 and hopes for Legacy

Nicolas Cage’s desire to be in Star Trek

Danai Gurira’s almost casting for Star Trek 4

You can hear audio from these interviews and more in the latest All Access Star Trek podcast.


Keep up with news for the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.

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Wesley’s Kirk grew on me a lot in Season 2, and I appreciate that they capture his brains and emotional intellect. La’an and Kirk had good chemistry. Don’t want Pike replaced for many many years though.

The writing for him in season 2 was better than his appearances in season 1. Overall, though I haven’t been too impressed with the material he has been given. I wasn’t a fan of La’an and Kirk’s chemistry and as a result that episode was the weakest of the season for me. I also feel that the meet and greets with TOS cast is not all that interesting. Although I admit that I don’t think I am the target audience for it either. Given the limited number of episodes per season with SNW I would rather than do more to push the stories and characters forward. Not spends so much time trying to recreate TOS. Then again as always my expectations for all Star Trek shows are quite low. So here’s hoping they exceed that for season 3. If not….oh well!

You know what’s funny? I totally bought into their chemistry. Thought that was the best part of the episode.

Perfectly explained. SNW does not have to be TOS:Rebooted. The La’an and Kirk episode was one of my least favorites as well. Also agree the plethora of producer-writers should focus on creating an original series and forgot about recreating TOS.

Well said. Agreed — it should not be at the expense of cutting SNW short. I fear though that 5 seasons is going to be the typical length of these series.

Anson Mount is fabulous as Pike, and I hope he’ll be in the center chair for a lot of years yet!

Wesley is already too old to be Kirk in this era, and if SNW goes the seven or eight years that I’m hoping for, Wesley would be REALLY too old by then to play a TOS-era Kirk. So I hope if they ever do a series with a TOS-era Kirk, that Kirk is recast. No slur on Mr. Wesley, who seems to be an excellent actor, but Kirk needs to be a young man with light brown hair and hazel eyes, not a middle-aged man with dark brown hair and dark brown eyes … unless they’re doing movie-era Kirk.

Agreed Corylea. I don’t understand why they got someone basically in their 40s to play someone in their 20s? If it’s a one off or something, OK, but the show will probably go at least five seasons minimum assuming things stay stable. It’s just a really weird decision, especially when the other TOS characters seems to be closer to their appropriate ages.

It’s also sort of strange that they’re not giving him a light-brown wig. It’s not as if we don’t know what Kirk looks like; we have 79 episodes showing him in great detail. Yeah, Wesley is handsome, but Hollywood is full of handsome actors; finding one the right age and giving him a wig of the right shade shouldn’t be difficult!

HA, you just pretty much described every 90210 like soap ever which is ironic considering Wesley’s background. But I still think he does a good job in S2

Lol that is hilarious. 😂

LOL!!!

Hey!!!! Anson Mount is easily my fav Captain of the new era of Trek. I tried to compare him to Shatner or Stewart or Brooks but my heart couldn’t take it LOL

I was sorry about the timing of Anson Mount’s baby, since although I certainly support his right to paternity leave, de-emphasizing Pike during Season 2 of SNW left a Pike-shaped hole in the season. Mount is perfect in the role, and Pike is a great fit for our era.

Oh, Lordy, yes! The timing couldn’t have been worse. But real-life must take precedence; even someone who lives in the multiverse like me can accept that necessity.<g> The original cast of SNW is magnificent (although I’m still a bit ambivalent about Chapel…is she a warrior woman or a sex kitten for Spock?) Also, I like M’Benga, although his heavy accent is very difficult for these old-age ears to understand. And while I like Pelia (just one more female tic mark to add to the check box) I really miss Hemmer; with him gone, I’m afraid the character of young Uhura is going to turn into poor Nichelle, doomed to drape her copious bosom over the communications console and murmur, “Hailing frequencies open, Captain.” I sincerely hope not; I like her spunk.

Totally agreed. It’s like he was made for the role!

Shatner was a man with light brown hair and hazel eyes who played Kirk, an imaginary character.

This is like saying Hamlet “has” to look exactly like Richard Burbage for the sole reason that he was the first actor to play the role. It doesn’t make any sense.

Yes, you do want some visual continuity, but we’ve had six Bonds who look only broadly similar, seventy-five different incarnations of Sherlock Holmes, and fifteen Doctors who look nothing alike, not to mention one was a woman and the newest one is a Rwandan-Scot.

The essence of Kirk isn’t in his looks, it’s in his character – smart, worldly, funny, confident, an inspiring leader, a diplomat, a cunning warrior, a scientist. He’s drawn as much from Horatio Hornblower as other fictional characters. The question for any actor is, how well do you play those characteristics.

To me, Paul Wesley is just fine as Kirk, as is Chris Pine. They are different Kirks (and even Wesley has essentially played three different Kirks!) but with the same essence.

As to his visual age, well, people age differently – you see people who life has hit hard and they visibly age faster, have more wrinkles, go grey earlier, etc. I have no problem buying Wesley as being slightly under 30, for an Anglo guy who’s survived trauma at a young age (Tarsus IV) and has probably experienced a lot else in Starfleet.

YES — EXACTLY — 100%

Ah, Fred, you’ve just mentioned my two *least* favorite Kirks. The fact that I don’t find Chris Pine the least bit attractive (a prejudice I try to overcome every time I see him as Kirk) shouldn’t matter, but I also find him inadequate to the task of portraying a complicated character. He’s all one-liners and cute(?) smiles. As for Wesley, I see him as a cardboard cutout more suitable to be viewed in a cape with hands on hips, eyes gazing into the distance, but an actor has to deal with the stories he’s given, so I can’t put all the blame on him. Most of the writing has been mediocre (at best) and some downright horrendous. Some are so bad you could fly a starship through the plot holes and never get a scratch!<g> Hard to believe since lead producer/writer Goldsman also wrote the amazing Da Vinci Code trilogy some of my favorite films of all time and arguably some of the best films in modern times.

Are you and Legacy roomates?

;-)

Disagree. Pine and Wesley play Kirk. Shatner IS Kirk. He didn’t just play the role, he defined it, even more so that Roddenberry did when he created the character.

I liked him much more too. I agree with Wesley’s sentiment that S1 Kirk was not OG Kirk so the portrayal reflected that. S2 was way better,

He was definitely better in S2, but I still wouldn’t say good either. He just really rubs me the wrong way for some reason.

Well no one will ever replace Shatner

Of Kirk’s 3 appearances in SNW, 2 of them were alternate timelines and stuff.We’re only beginning to see an actual in-universe SNW Kirk.

Knowing La’an at all complicates the eventual events of Space Seed.

Spinning off Paul Wesly in a Kirk series would be a massive mistake and an increduble FU to the franchise as a whole.
it’s bad enougb Shatner no longer apoears in ST advertising.

Agree — Pike is a fantastic character wonderfully portrayed by Anson Mount. Self-aware enough to make fun of himself, and an excellent Captain. My fear is that the producers will seek to undermine him by making him indecisive and weak just in order to make new-Kirk into the hero. I’ve heard murmurings that the Pike in TOS was indecisive…I’ll have to rewatch those episodes to see…but absolutely nowhere does it say the SNW Pike has to be portrayed that way! I adore Pike in SNW and think new-Kirk needs a lot of work to make him into even a glimmer of TOS-Kirk. The poor quality of the scripts — (with a couple of surprising exceptions…who would have thought an action junkie like me would prefer the fantasy episode [the cast seemed to have a blast with it], and the live-action version of an animated series would be the highlights of my viewing pleasure?) — makes me wince, but the characters keep me coming back; I can take a lot of bad writing if the characters are magnificent. Sorry, that’s a really convoluted sentence…I should know better!

Agreed. Shatner’s Kirk is the only one that I like. The other two just feel like poor imitations to me.

I like 2009 Trek, but they definitely positioned Kirk as a Han Solo-esque rulebreaker, as opposed to the smart/serious/professional Kirk we get in the original series. It’s been fun to see Wesley grow into the role. I think he’s doing a great job.

I like 2009 Trek, but they definitely positioned Kirk as a Han Solo-esque rulebreaker, as opposed to the smart/serious/professional Kirk we get in the original series. It’s been fun to see Wesley grow into the role. I think he’s doing a great job.

Best post of the month so far…100% !!!

I didn’t mind that angle for the mere fact that this was a Kirk who’d lost his father at birth and was much younger than the version we saw in TOS.

I think it’s fair to say many people are more brash when they’re younger, too.

Losing his family I totally get. But not the younger part. Prime Kirk was mentioned as being a walking stack of books at the academy.

This has never bothered me either. I think for the people that hate Kelvin Kirk obviously got that, they just hated that direction just the same.

We’ll agree to disagree on Wesley.

The real problem was JJ Abrams and Co. They took the popular op of Kirk being a womanizer instead of really understanding the depth of the character and seeing in TOS he was nothing like that.

Totally agree!

Those movies are so bad because they only took the same Kirk stereotypes everybody who has heard of the character knows and amplified them to 11.

It was such an insult to the character because he was portrayed as a hot head idiot and not with a brain or reasoning.

Everyone kept saying the first movie is just being Kirk as young guy without being in command.

And then they doubled down on it in the next movie getting into three ways, hanging out at bars and making some of the most ridiculous decisions any Captain should ever make.

So many things were wrong with that movie. I can’t even count. My biggest issue besides Kirk being a womanizer is the Kirk from failed cadet to captain in like 3 days.

Yes true! But this is probably because Abrams just saw Kirk like that as well and thought would be something to make him look cooler to mainstream audiences. Just a cool ladies man action hero. He didn’t try to inject any real intelligence into him. Yes they SAID Kirk is very smart, we just never saw it either. There was just no curiosity to the character like the original.

Perfect example of what I mean is in Beyond. There’s the scene where they are all in the Franklin and the video of the old crew pops up. He looks at it, kind of just shrugs and then his eyes light up when he sees the motorcycle. I remember thinking, like dude, maybe you should watch some of the logs to learn what happened to them or at least maybe can tell you something about the planet?

Now I get it, I understand it was just to set up the BIG REVEAL we find out the crew is really some of the people they are fighting. But it just goes to the same problem in these movies, Kirk just does not seem to try and look at anything beyond the surface and that’s just not a good Captain. When your chief of engineer is telling you that the weapons they are carrying could be dangerous to your ship, maybe you should listen to him? Look at his scenes with Khan? Khan gives Kirk a little speech about who he is, does Kirk at least try and look up who he is like ironically the original Kirk did? Nope. Just takes everything at face value but had no idea how dangerous Khan truly was because he didn’t spend even five minutes looking the guy up. At least Spock had enough brains to talk to Prime Spock, but it was too little too late.

That’s the problem, the character is treated more like a suave action hero instead of someone who actually takes in information, weigh his options, dig a little beyond the peripheral like we seen most Captains do.

Yupper but beyond (no pun intended lol) that, the problem was not just JJ. This entire trilogy was the birth child of Bob Orci. He has said, on here in fact, what a huge fan of Trek he is. And to his credit, he did know his stuff. But looking back I think perhaps he may be a Berman era Trek fan more than a TOS era fan. Because he was the one the wrote Kirk the way he is in Kelvin since Day one. At the very least Abrams came out frank and said I never watched Star Trek I was always a Star Wars fan. The SW fans can complain about what he did to that franchise LOL

Not only that, Chris Pine was quoted as saying he based his version of Kirk on Harrison Ford (he didn’t mention Solo or Indy).

I appreciate how Wesley has researched the character to the extent he has, he seems passionate about it, which is great. As a diehard TOS fan, there’s no Kirk for me but Shatner to be honest, but given that, best of luck to Wesley as he does he own portrayal. As to SNW, I wish it really was “Pike’s show.” Instead TPTB couldn’t resist the urge to bring TOS characters into it, unnecessary in my view, and it tells (me) that they don’t have much confidence in their new characters. Anyway, one guy’s opinion. Hoping that season 3 of SNW is stronger than season 2.

Same for me, the fact he RESEARCHED is just awesome.

I have not loved “his” Kirk yet, but I the fact he is taking it this seriously means that, for me, I will respect his take on the character.

The idea that including Kirk means they have no confidence in their cast is perhaps the most ludicrous statement I’ve read regarding the show. And that’s saying something.

…then respectfully, it seems you haven’t been reading here for very long. :)

I like Wesley’s Kirk in S2. But If I had my way Kirk would have appeared twice in the entirety of the show, Once in a circumstance where Kirk and Spock were in a life and Death situation that formed the basis of their friendship. The last is the series finale when Kirk takes command and starts his 5 year mission.

Agree with this. But I was also the same guy who predicted he would probably show up in the first season finale months before Wesley was announced to play Kirk lol.

LOL, nothing I predict ever comes true!

The fact that he knew Memory Alpha was very telling to me.

Not trusting their original characters is I think one of the major weaknesses of the producers of modern Trek. I mean look at Discovery, they had excellent characters by themselves like Lorca and Saru and Burnham would have been a much more stronger character if she didn’t have any connection with Spock. Same thing happened with the original characters for Picard as well. I enjoyed Elnor and Rios but they just ended up unceremoniously dumping them for the final season. They need to trust their original characters more and concentrate on developing them more before impatiently bringing in legacy character or dumping the original characters.

So agree with all of this. I’m so sick of NuTrek constantly making these new characters of old characters related as if they are afraid the audience won’t care about them without this weird gimmick. Burnham is Spock’s sister. La’an is Khan’s whatever. Soji is Data’s daughter. Jack is Picards son. Stop doing that. It’s tired and desperate.

None of the old shows ever did this. Archer wasn’t Kirks great grandpa. Sisko wasn’t Geordi cousin. Janeway wasn’t Scotty’s niece. Tuvok wasn’t related to T’Pol. They all just stood on their own, period.

And they seem to think the only way they can get enough people to care about these shows is by stuffing all these legacy characters in. Maybe if you just had BETTER shows they wouldn’t feel so desperate to make a Picard or a Pike show.

Discovery is not bad because it doesn’t have legacy characters in it, it’s simply bad. People like Pike in second season and many still hates it anyway. That’s their real problem.

I don’t really mind most except making Burnham Spock’s sister, it just felt so ridiculous.

It’s like hey Trekkies we have a new show for you and our main character is related to Spock so you should want to tune in now.

Just make a good show and you don’t need this gimmick. Unfortunately they made Discovery so I guess they did.

How is Michael any more ridiculous than Sybok who they just made up in the fifth movie. Or Archer and the NX-01 which didn’t even exist Pre Enterprise.

Sybok at least made some sense in the sense that he was a full vulcan and that perhaps Sarek had relationships before Amanda. With Michael being human it just seems (to me at least) that her way of becoming Spock’s sister is much more convulated and honestly do you REALLY think she absolutely needed to have that personal connection with Spock to make the character stronger? I thought it would have been more badass if her mutiny was more of a spur-of the moment thing rather than the result of her Vulcan upbringing at work. And if they still wanted to include elements of Vulcan in her origins, they could have done it without involving Spock. Her parents could have been ambassadors there, she could have still grown up there and maybe Spock could have been her mentor or something. Heck maybe it would have been more unusual and interesting if they made her and Spock have a romantic relationship instead of being siblings. Spock taking a page from his fathers book by romancing a human but then when Michael gets involved with the mutiny his look on emotions and humans changes for the negative until he meets Kirk etc…

It still is the Pike show, and they have done stuff with their original characters.

I’m not worried about him acting like Kirk. It seems like he can. I’m greatly concerned with him being written as anything resembling the Kirk we all know, especially after seeing this huge transformative arc they have Spock traveling down.

The one think that makes Spock OK for me in this series is that this is a much younger Spock who is of course 1/2 human. And just like in The Cage, Spock very much had emotions back then. I can see him growing over the course of the series to purge those and I hope they do that.

I thought he was great. The casting on SNW is such a step up from Discovery.

You bet, because Discovery had a bunch of second-rate actors like Jason Isaacs, Michelle Yeoh, Sonequa Martin-Green, Doug Jones, Anthony Rapp, Tig Notaro, Oded Fehr, Mary Wiseman, James Frain …

Come on man – bit harsh attacking the actors lile that.

They don’t write the scripts.

I think he was being sarcastic?

thanks, upper
sometimes I just don’t know

LOL, yep

Totally being sarcastic.

ha yeah…for all it’s problems (imo) the cast itself is not one

Yeah, he’s great!

LOL the person who goes on and on about shoehorning legacy characters is OK with Kirk being there?

And I understand you are just saying you like his performance but still eye rolling because you would’ve jumped on anyone just saying they like having the character at all.

It is rather… ironic.

The casting on Discovery is absolutely the best thing about it.

Oh, the irony of bringing back Star Trek only to have it return to (and possibly end with) TOS in a few years.

Until they reboot TNG, of course.

I do feel like once the Kurtzman era ends in a decade or so they are going to need to completely start over with newly reimagined Star Trek, and with a total release from the canon.

they really did have their change with Discovery

A chance to ‘re-discover’ Star Trek for this generation, starting at the very beginning, etc…

but….they did what they did instead. So –

DSC was never intended as a full reimagining of Star Trek — it was always intended to fit within canon.

What I am talking about in the future is a completely new start — a clean sheet of paper — new ships, new characters, etc. etc. You keep the very high-level basics like starships, transporters, the Federation and Prime Directive, etc, but everything else is fair game to be new. For example, drop the deal with nearly every alien being a humanoid variant, which has always been unrealistic.

Well, in the early days humanoid aliens were obviously dictated by budgetary concerns. You’d get the occasional Horta thrown in…
Additionally, as theatrical drama, easily recognizable facial expressions & emotions in alien adversaries probably worked to make the dramatic situations clearer to the TV audience of that day.
CGI and giant high-def TV screens give the producers wider latitude with alien characters nowadays.

I’m sorry – had a typo. I meant “had their **chance**”

Ah, OK, that makes a difference in my perception of what your were saying. Thanks

That’s hat Discovery was supposed to be when Bryan Fuller imagined it. And even after he left that’s why Discovery was SOOOOO different with the Klingons and everything. But as time went on they changed the focus of the show to *try* and align it with canon.

They failed miserably, but they *tried*

Nah, just say the Kurtzman shite (apart from PIC S3/Lower Decks/Prodigy) was non-canon or alternate reality. 1966-2005 Trek then can continue with a showrunner that actually gets the universe and not someone that fails upwards (see Dark Universe).

I don’t think they can reboot TNG. And I just can’t imagine why.

I love TNG but no more reboots or prequels already. Let’s move on to new things. Go forward and stop looking back.

Not anytime soon because Picard was so recent but someday I think it is inevitable. It was the most successful series of one of the greatest franchises of all time after all.

I think what might be interesting is if they take it right up to the beginning of TOS and then jump ahead to the last two years of the 5 year mission and then wrap it up with them coming back to Earth right before TMP. There’s a lot to explore in those last 2 years of the mission, and they don’t need to adhere to two of our years. They could stretch it out for a few seasons.

Taking your idea a step further, yeah start with the second half of the five year mission (I don’t think it has to lineup year to year with exactly TOS season numbers), but the in certain episodes Do you major flashbacks to right before and at the start of the five year mission.

In fact, the first episode could be a two parter that takes place at the halfway point of the five-year mission, and that ep could flashback to the of start of it all. And maybe it would be cool to have Kirk being judged by Starfleet for his prime directive violations, and they could reference some TOS actions and flashbacks too.

STAR TREK CONTINUES already did this, and stunningly well, even without allowing for the fact it was a fan production.

Yep, it was pretty good, but still felt like a fan production.Definite A for effort. There’s still room to revisit the idea with a professional production.

Wesley 100% feels like a fan production casting of Kirk

I’d LOVE to see that. But lets see what happens after Paramount gets bought :-(

Well TOS is Star Trek, which everything else is based upon. I am enjoying seeing it brought into the modern era.

It was, back in 2009. And with a lot of fanfare and hype as well.

Yes, but not really. I mean, they even made it clear they were an alternate reality Star Trek. Alternate reality Trek brought into the modern era I guess lol.

Any new TOS show should be a reboot. I get people are saying they want a ‘Star Trek Continues’ type of show, I just don’t think it’s very realistic either since they are just going to change anything they want and will be out of whack with TOS, so what’s the point? SMW isn’t about TOS but they have already just gone a completely diferent way with the characters there now. Nothing in SNW makes much sense to TOS and we are just two seasons in lol.

Just make it a reboot. That’s what the Kelvin movies should’ve been a full on reboot and then British Khan could’ve showed up and got less flack for it (but still a lot of flack lol).

TBH I disagree. Trek isn’t Bond where you can just reboot it whenever you want. Nor is it BSG where the first one was a fail and you reboot to make a good one.

IMHO Reboots are Hollywood being lazy because they *think* they can’t write good stories because they are hindered by canon.

Nothing can be further from the truth. There is so much in the Star Trek Prime Universe we can explore. Take the period between Generations and TNG for example.

Despite what I just said, I think Trek’s biggest issue is that they keep going back and not forward. Enough with prequels. I love SNW but it is the exception to the problem not the rule, precisely because it is not retreading new territory. I know DISCO tried this with the 32nd century but then they had a baby cry and blow up the galaxy so they royally screwed that one up.

I agree with this and technically you can make a Trek show out of any one of the hundreds (thousands) ships or aliens out in this gigantic universe. You just need to get creative and imaginative. The problem is the producers think that these types of shows wouldn’t be watched unless there is some sort of familiar or popular character anchoring it. Let’s be honest the days of slow building in tv shows are gone, they either expect them to be popular instantly or die away. Personally I would want the Star Trek universe to be the connecting factor in the shows they are making not the characters.

i like Galactica 78, the less said about 1980 the better. Although Return of Starbuck was decent. The reboot treated it as a drama not Star Wars for tv which the original, and Buck Rogers in the 25th century were. They were cheesy yes. It was the 70s.

This is weird. I replied to you and it went through but not showing up for some reason so I’ll try it again.

Edit: Never mind, my dumbass didn’t refresh the page lol.

Not your father’s Star Trek, i like my dad’s Star Trek,lol.

Ya but it was the “90210” version. Not a legit accomplishment IMHO besides 2 movies’ box office and a dud on the third.

Bring on the Wesley-Kirk new TOS series! Let all the fans who have no issues with animated crossovers, crews doing musical numbers, and Pic-Jedi S3 just deal with it. :-)

I’d love a Wesley-Kirk TOS series. But set it in the 4th year of the 5 year mission and then transition into TMP before it ends.

I hated the cartoon episode easily the worst since Rascals. The musical was kind of fun but also dumb.

“I think there’s a long road”

🎶Getting from there to here…🎶

hehehe I was wondering if he would keep talking using the lyrics

I really like Paul Wesley as James T. Kirk. I think he’s been doing a fine job in the role, and I also feel that the writers have done a good job at keeping him reined in so he doesn’t overshadow Anson Mount’s Captain Pike. I’ve never gotten the feeling that he’s stealing the spotlight. At the same time, his introductions to the people he’ll later call his shipmates and friends has been handled really well. His interactions with Uhura were entertaining and sweet, and his introduction to Spock was executed perfectly. No fanfare, no sweeping musical cues, nothing cringy or overwrought; just introductions and a handshake. I think it’s cool that such a deep, long, and loyal friendship starts out so simply.

This is so refreshing to see so many fans today coming out of the woodwork to praise him and his portrayal of Kirk.

I don’t think anyone has accused Wesley of stealing the spotlight from Mount lol.

But I’m happy you really like him. I did like his interaction with Uhura. I forgot all about that episode.

I like that he has an opportunity with the character, i hope he adds layers and nuance. He is playing Jim Kirk not Bill Shatner. I know some people really dislike that. It can be the correct choice to not copy a performance and still be missing gravitas. I think people want him to act theatrically like Shatner and scene chew.

I so hope they remake tos with the snw visual retcon designs for the sets,ships,uniforms,props and alien designs and then cbs can officially decanonize from prime timeline canon the dated cheep,cheesy,lame 60’s tos which has been very retconned over the years starting with Gene back when he made the first movie he said only what happened in the episodes was canon but the visual look of tos was not canon and to Gene when creating tng decanonized a bunch of tos due it ot no longer working with the story he wanted to tell with tng and some cause he no longer saw things in the same way to enterprise and then discovery ,picard seasons 1 and 2 and strange new worlds or they can come out and say 60’s tos is in it’s own separate alternate timeline not connected to any other trek prime timeline series or the first 10 prime timeline films which thanks to all the retcons that have happened in universe reasons via temporal Cold War time travel or normal non temporal Cold War involved time travel or cause of real world reasons by the creators of particular series or cause of changes in real world history that differ from what was said to happen and technology advances it already is in the latter option

1st Place Award: Longest Sentence in Human History

Congrats! :-)

if they had just said that SNW was it’s own timeline then many people wouldn’t have near as many problems with it. It does indeed look amazing and is 95% very well done. It’s their wishy-washy stance on “it’s prime! Unless we wanna change things…”

Tos is the outlier and has not fit visually into canon or story wise since well before enterprise and has been rightfully retconned out of prime timeline with the other shows just wish cbs and paramount would pull a prodigy and remove it fully and ignore tos and they should lock it away in a vault or better yet do a full delete on the that horrible 60’s low grade cheep cheesy dated written acted and designed eyesore that it is from existence and recall all tos products from stores and cancel all licenses for tos imagery in models both kits and master replicas and books and comics and clothing and buy back all tos merch in private hands and smash it all with sledge hammer or throw it all in a incinerator and live stream the event

How has it been retconned out of the prime timeline when all the OTHER shows from TNG to Enterprise faithfully followed it minus a few differences? Even Lower Decks has faithfully followed it. The only shows that haven’t really are DIS and SNW. It would be more logical those shows just weren’t part of the prime timeline than saying TOS isn’t.

And before anyone start typing, I think they both are part of the prime timeline and have no issues with it, I’m just following Michelle’s argument.

And if you don’t like TOS that’s fine, but trying to erase the show from the entire franchise that is anchored to it is simply a non-starter.

Yeah that doesn’t make any sense lol.

Yeah, that comment was just plain wrong IMHO

She’s clearly NOT a TOS fan lol, but no one is forcing anyone to watch it either. That’s probably a better idea than trying to excise the entire show from canon.

But she’s not wrong at the same time. SNW really isn’t following TOS canon at all at this point and you don’t really need to know it to follow this show.

WTF? LOL

Did you say with a straight face say TOS, the show that helped defined scene fiction and is still considered iconic today should be forgotten so abominations like SNW and Discovery should exist?

They wouldn’t exist at all if it wasn’t for TOS. That’s where your ridiculous argument falls.

so abominations like SNW and Discovery should exist?

I would respond to your so obvious baiting of fans of these show, but then I would have to listen to your whining, pretend BS where you will predictably come up with something like, “oh, poor little innocent me just doesn’t understand why people react negatively to my posts”

LMFAO

Please leave me alone.

I assure you, I do not enjoy whatsoever conversing with you here. Simply knock off the over-the-top baiting of fans who like these shows (using words like “abomination”), knock off the fake surprise routine when people push back on those types of comments, and get your Star Trek history straight and you won’t be hearing from me again.

Please leave me alone.

see above

No, please leave me alone.

Ibid

You’re the one who started it.

Thanks, Tuskin

This is why these boards are fun, it’s always filled with silly useless drama! 😂

This is beyond ironic.

It is a strange argument. You can totally hate TOS but the other shows only exist because of it

The Trekkies would riot if Kurtzman tried to tell them TOS is no longer canon. That would probably be a fun week to be online but it would be a total melt down lol.

Are you kidding? Let’s follow this stance through to its logical conclusion, even from ONE instance. No TOS… That means no TOS movies, ie Star Trek 1 – 6. That means no Ambassador Spock. That means no Unification Part 1 and 2 from TNG. That means TNG is invalidated. Also it means No Unification part III from Discovery. Ok, that show is gone now too.

And that is just ONE example of how your suggestion fails. No one and I mean NO ONE (and usually I do not like to speak for everyone) likes the idea of erasing almost 60 years of the history of one of the worlds greatest franchises.

Don’t sweat the small stuff. We got bigger problems — animated crossovers, weird comedic shit on LDS that is now canon, crew doing song and dance numbers on the Enterprise, Picard S3 being a copy of ROTJ. So updating the look of the show and the recent history to fit it is way less of a bothersome issues than having to accept this kind of BS.

… you KNOW what I am going to say about your comment…

LOL, yep!

I honestly don’t think the animated crossovers are a problem TBH.. For example, if we can except that the TOS crew can exist both in live action and TAS, then why not this? After all, Robert April from DISCO and SNW was in live action but was created in TAS.

I completely agree with this, but SNW is part of the prime timeline. Do I think it really fits, no not really lol and have said so many many times. But this is where I use the line it’s just a TV show. It’s all part of the same universe as long as the producers, writers, executives, etc says it is.

I get as fans we want everything to feel as consistent as possible, but that’s not the same thing wondering if something is officially part of the same universe. Yeah they could do a better job of the former but it is still the latter regardless. All these shows are A. canon and B. part of the prime universe until someone says one of them isn’t.

Now all that said, if it was up to me, I would’ve just put Discovery in its own universe and then they could’ve done whatever they wanted and you would’ve had waaaay less moaning about it. Unfortunately they didn’t do that.

They should’ve all been in another universe because they are so out of aligned with TOS canon you can hardly call them canon at all.

Silly mushroom spire drives, Spock having a sister mutineer, or humping Chapel, Kirk being on the Enterprise this soon and on and on, it’s all so ridiculous.

I actually don’t disagree they probably should’ve all been. But I think TPTB knew how much of a pull the Prime universe still had on the fanbase and after how divisive the Kelvin movies ended up being for being in another universe among other things (in terms of the old fanbase, not the general audience who doesn’t care either way) then it probably would’ve been suicide to place a new show in yet another new universe so soon.

But if you’re going to stick with the Prime universe, you still have to do it right or fans will still balk, ie, Discovery. SNW gets a lot less slack just being a better show overall but the canon issues still makes that show divisive in some circles as well.

Although I know you don’t watch Lower Decks, it’s also the reason why that show is so popular, because it was literally the first show since Voyager ended that stuck so close to the original canon. I will argue Picard did as well but it being closer to the 25th century it could just go another way too (why I always think going forward is bett…OK I’ll stop now ;)).

But LDS just matched the look of the prime universe completely. It is truly a love letter to Star Trek.

I heard that about Lower Decks but it still looks amazingly stupid. But can’t be anymore stupid then Discovery so maybe I’m being unfair?

Do you think I will like it?

Based on your view on the other shows, no probably not lol. But you never know, you could be surprised I guess. But I really encourage you to try Prodigy though as I said before. That may be more appealing to you but you could hate that one as the others.

Hahaha thanks!

You’re so easy to talk to BTW!

There is a line of people I’m ignoring or who have been banned that may disagree with you lol. But I do try to be! :)

Lol sounds like you been here awhile. Message boards can be fun when you meet like minded people. I don’t go on them too much just when I have time.

I’m going to try Prodigy. It would be nice to like one of these Secret Hideout shows that don’t suck.

Longer than I care to admit lol. Glad you’re going to give Prodigy a chance at least. There is another poster here who also thinks all the Secret Hideout shows absolutely sucks, but he kind of likes Prodigy so there is a healthy endorsement for you! :)

Lol you’re really funny!

On YouTube there are a ton of people who hate these new shows too but I do like listening to both sides. I just have a hard time agreeing with the other side haha.

Can I ask you what is your favorite one? Both golden era and the new shows?

With the classic shows, without a doubt DS9! And that originally started as my least favorite probably through its third season. But every season after it just got stronger and stronger. For me that will always be the epitome of Star Trek and I grew up watching TOS and TNG as well.

For the new shows, probably not a shock to you but Prodigy lol. That’s why I always push for new people to check it out. Now unlike DS9, I’m pretty sure I’m in the minority with it being my favorite, at least for the modern shows. Most people seem to like either SNW or Picard season 3 as their favorites. People definitely like it, but I think it being geared towards kids makes it harder for it to be anyone’s top show…unless you’re a kid. ;)

But in truth I really do like most of the modern shows overall. I have my issues with them (although not as much as you lol) and certainly say so but I do like them. They are just not at the level of the classic shows I guess, but that’s with decades of nostalgia obviously.

Oh I love DS9 as well! It’s not my favorite but I really love it. And Sisko is my third favorite Captain after Kirk and Janeway.

What stops me from loving DS9 more is that I really enjoy the exploration part of Star Trek the most. And like TNG I also had a harder getting into that show. I thought the first two seasons of TNG were beyond awful at the time. Just a truly bad show. But it won me over after the third season and I fell in love.

I would say I liked DS9 after the first season. I ♥️ Garek, Odo, Gul Dukat, Kira and Dax. Just so many fascinating characters. I think DS9 has the most complex out of any show.

I wish they would make another DS9 show. Maybe get the same people who made it though. I don’t trust the new people.

See for me I never hated the first two seasons of TNG. I didn’t think they were amazing or anything but I actually liked a lot of the episodes. And that was confirmed when I watched the entire season on my grand rewatch back in 2021. There were even episodes I forgot about I ended up loving. But yes shows like Code of Honor, Angel One, Up the Long Ladder and Shades of Grey should’ve never made it to television lol. Shades of Grey is still the lowest rated episode out of all the shows (old and new) on IMDB today. It’s at a 3.3. As much grief people give episodes like Spock’s Brain, Threshold or TATV, all of those are still rated in the 5’s at least but I digress.

As far as DS9 I obviously agree with everything. It’s still a fantastic show and really has gotten more popular in the last ten years or so. It’s always in the top 3 (usually with TOS and TNG) and yes the characters really stand out.

I don’t know if you listen to podcasts, but The Delta Flyer is currently reviewing the episodes now with Armin Shimmerman and Terry Ferrell. It’s really good and you learn so much about the show. They are only in the first season right now.

Yes I absolutely listen to The Delta Flyers! I’m even a Patreon member lol. Those guys are great. I met both of them at conventions too. Garrett Wang is such a sweetheart. He loves talking to everyone. I haven’t listened to the DS9 episodes yet but I plan to soon.

OMG Shades of Gray, that brings back the worst memories and not just for Riker either Haha.

I have soften on the early TNG seasons over the years but they were truly putrid. But so was season 3 of TOS. As much as I love TOS I’m sorry to say that’s probably the worst season of Trek for me, at least the golden era. I also originally hated Enterprise first season as well but like DS9 first season has grown to love it. I love how much exploring there is in that season too.

I don’t want to give the impression I think all these shows were perfect but they feel like Star Trek in the best way possible. Don’t feel the same for Abrams or Kurtzman Trek at all. But I know you really like it so I know fans do like them of course and that’s great.

But I been trying since 2009 and it does absolutely nothing for me. Picard season 3 was really the first. I was very excited about that show originally too and wow, just a complete disappointment.

LOL no I don’t get offended over this stuff, not in the least. Just as long as you are not slighting others for liking something, say whatever you want, I don’t remotely care. I just love talking about Star Trek, so I get really into the discussions with people and I want to hear things they love and hate. And I have been a huge Voyager fan for over 25 years now, I have very thick skin at this point lol. I imagine if you’re a DIS fan it has to be even thicker.

As far as the new shows, trust me I have had my ups and downs with them to say the least. Picard in fact is still my second worst show. The only reason why it’s not my worst anymore is due to season 3. But I didn’t think it was that amazing it jumped the show into the top 3 or anything lol. But yeah I really loved it obviously.

And I do think they are all improving (see Picard season 3 ;)). Discovery is the only show I’m still having a lot of problems with but maybe season 5 will turn it around for me. We’ll see.

But the way I describe Star Trek is they are all my children some just have more behavior issues than others. ;)

That last line is such a great outlook. I wish I could be as open minded but I would probably give up a few for adoption… especially if Kurtzman is the father haha.

This was a lot of fun. I can be harsh for sure but I’m always willing to listen to people who really want to have a discussion. You seem to really love Star Trek but open to every viewpoint.

I been a fan for over 50 years, so I am very passionate and direct about how I feel. I’m too old to change now lol.

One last question, what is your favorite movie? Mine is actually The Search for Spock. My second favorite is The Motion Picture. My third is Insurrection. You want to talk grief, I been getting it for years with those picks lol. I don’t pretend like my tastes are super popular either, I just don’t care if others disagree with it like you don’t.

But I love all the old movies. Generations is the only one I hate. It was so stupid and awful way to kill off Kirk. I even told that to Brannon Braga in his face once. He was actually a good sport about it. He said if he could go into the Nexus himself that would be one of his do overs.

Have to go now. Have a great day friend.

LOL wow those are some crazy picks! I like TSFS too. It’s not an awful movie or anything and it’s part of the trilogy, it just feels a tad weaker being between TWOK and TVH IMO. I never hated Insurrection but I know most fans put it at the bottom of their lists. But it is a very TNG themed movie and I think for people who do love it love it because of that. I can watch it anytime, but I don’t lol.

But TMP, oh.my.god! I’m sorry, I know there are people who truly love this movie, people on this board but no I am not one of them lol. I can’t do it. I’ve seen it maybe 3 times in my life. I watched it for the first time in probably 20 years back in 2021. And I had just finished watching all of TOS so was actually getting excited thinking my view will change and maybe being older would make me appreciate it more. I think by the time they got to the scene when Spock shows up and Kirk was asking him to sit down I was ready to put my head through the screen to make it stop lol. It’s just so dull. I’m sorry to be so harsh but it’s like watching paint dry, only they spent $35 million for amazing FX paint. Put it this way, Nemesis is my worst movie and yet I still manage to watch it 8 times now. I’m not sure I can watch TMP again before I die.

As far as my picks, they are TWOK, TUC and FC. Yes, very standard picks lol, but there it is. But outside of TMP I can rewatch any of the movies actually. None of them are truly awful IMO, but there are only a handful of solid ones and the rest are mostly so so. That’s why I will always love shows more. The movies are just, yeah, especially the last 20 years but I digress.

Anyway this was fun. I apologize to the board for once again, going waaaay off topic lol. Take it easy yourself!

Delta Flyers are amazing. I started listening to them a year ago. Also listening to the DS9 reviews and very insightful as usual.

I understand your point about NuTrek. I originally had a lot the same troubles with it. It just felt very off to me, like people who were making Star Trek but seemed embarrassed to be making it so was trying to turn it into something else. That’s exactly what JJ verse felt like and a big reason I abhor it today. That and so much of it is really dumb.

But I know a lot of people really like it. If they made more, fine, but I’m hoping they just moved on by now since not enough people seem to care anymore and they seem to know it but keep trying anyway. This site exists because of those movies and even most people here are saying move on already. But whatever.

The new shows have all been touch and go. None of them are perfect but I do think they all gotten better… except Discovery. 🙄

That’s just my opinion of course but four years on it has actually managed to get worse. But some people truly love it, more power to them. The funny thing is every season I been hopeful. I’m not some hater who was finding any excuses to hate it. In fact every season I started out liking it. But by the end, yep, hate it again lol

I’m hoping the last season will go out with a bang in the way Picard season 3 did but given it’s the same show runner I remain skeptical.

Hopefully you may change your mind on some of it though. If not you always have the old shows and that’s more than enough to rewatch for a lifetime.

But Shades of Gray should be excised from society lol.

And bro no one is getting on your case here but the same one resident lunatic lol. Say what you want, don’t be censored just because you are honest about it. It’s a TV show, some people get triggered over the silliest things.

Oops sorry I just realized you’re a woman. Excuse me.

Tiger2 is an amazing guy to talk to. No drama, very open minded, thoughtful and just easy going who really like engaging with others. People like this is fun to talk about Star Trek with. 😃

Seconded

Lol thanks! Always love talking to you as well!

IMHO it’s actually not part of the prime timeline anymore. Don’t get me wrong, in season 1 I would have argued that point till my vocal cords blew out. But in Season 2 that Romulan Lady from the future said that Khan is a kid in 2024 because the Temporal Cold War had changed things. So it sounds like SNW is in a variant timeline from the whole Enterprise Cold War thing.

Actually that is a good point. I forgot all about baby Khan. And I said the same thing after that episode aired this basically puts the show in a new timeline.

I do wonder will it come next season or be explored in any way? They just left it dangling.

Well, if you want to actually talk about timelines… then basically everything in Trek happens in or has created another time. Every single time that a Trek show goes back in time, no matter how careful they are, changes the timeline as we know it. Every. Single. Time. So what really is the Prime timeline anymore?
Something to think about.

In a way they did say that in Season 2. When they were in 2024 and Khan was a kid the Romulan lady mentioned that things have diverged because of the Temporal Cold War from ENT.

“Gene when creating tng decanonized a bunch of tos due it ot no longer working with the story he wanted to tell with tng”

Tell me three things Roddenberry made TOS non-canon when he made TNG because I can’t think of one.

federation history
warp scale
names of species

What specifically dealing with ‘Federation history’ lol. And if you are just talking about retcons, yeah that has happened with every show. Best example, TNG made canon that first contact with the Klingons is what started a war with them. Then Enterprise retconned all of that completely (to the anger of a lot people lol).

Warp scale? Seriously?

Again can you be specific as to what you’re talking about in terms of alien names, ie, an example? And I’m not following what that means or how it apples to TOS?

No offense but these are a stretch to say the least.

What does any of that even mean?

And Warp scales changed all the time back then. You have no argument.

Nope, you are ignorant of ST history a. In TOS, a Warp Factor was the cube of the number, and their was no limit — in fact GR originally had the Enterprise’s speed limit as Warp 18. But then in TNG, GR decided their would be a new scientific limit of Warp 10 that could never be exceeded, even though in TOS we had ships going Warp 13 and Warp 16.

Please leave me alone.

Stop “piling on” others then when it’s you whose knowledge of Star Trek is incorrect. Michelle is 100% correct here and your obnoxiously dismissive response to her on this topic was unwarranted. Again:

In TOS, a Warp Factor was the cube of the number, and their was no limit — in fact GR originally had the Enterprise’s speed limit as Warp 18. But then in TNG, GR decided their would be a new scientific limit of Warp 10 that could never be exceeded, even though in TOS we had ships going Warp 13 and Warp 16.

Please leave me alone.

see above

No. Please leave me alone.

Ibid

Michelle, here you go:

Warp 10 Limit — this was a pretty drastic change given we had ships going Warp 13 and Warp 16 I believe in TOS, and now all of sudden their is this scientific limit of Warp 10 — that’s a full and major retcon.

Klingons — full retcon (until Berman tried to fix it, but GR never wanted it “fixed”) — GR actually said he always intended them to be more alien and not to worry about how they looked in TOS.

The entire look of the universe changed — not only does the universe bear very little resemblance to what we saw of ships, stations and Starfleet facilities in TOS, but a reasonable person can’t really see how incrementally you get from the look of the Star Trek universe in TOS to the look of the Star Trek universe in TNG — he retconned nearly everything you see in space in TNG unverse from what we saw in TOS.

there was a blog made and maintained by one of the exec producers for tng that worked closely with gene when making tng he documented everything gene de canonized for different reasons from the fact they would not work with the story he wanted to tell with tng to his change in views on things at that time

he said gene did not really care about canon if it interfered with a story that he wanted to tell
and that was even backed up by someone who worked on tos with gene that he told people who would write episodes for the show to ignore canon if it got in the way of the story they wanted to tell in the episode

But you haven’t given any specific examples. That and the fact TNG actually followed TOS canon very very well lol. You complained about the look of the TOS Enterprise but in Relics, they had Scotty visit the old bridge in the holodeck that was the exact design.

So again, you haven’t proven your argument at all. And I can give you dozens and dozens examples from TNG to Enterprise that followed TOS canon completely.

Michelle, please see my examples above — they are solid and not debatable. You are on firm ground here and are 100% correct.

Even if Roddenberry himself didn’t care, other writers like DC Fontana did. Besides which, The inconsistencies you speak of do not go from TOS to later series, they happen within TOS itself. Take the notion that the Enterprise was first under United Earth Space Probe Agency but later IN TOS it was the United Federation of Planets. Yes there are canon inconsistencies but they are within the series, not beyond it.

Totally agree! 👍

This poster is not making any sense.

So far we got Kirk, Spock, Scotty, and Uhura. Just need McCoy, Sulu, and Chekov to see if they’re going to do a TOS continuation series spinoff.

Rand? DeSalle? Kelowitz?

Gertrude (Beauregard)?

you got me stumped on that one.

The plant in The Man Trap.

Wow! Can’t believe I forgot that. Guess I was unintentionally discriminating against non humanoids.

My mentions were folks who did appear in at least two or three shows. (I loved the way Kelowitz always says, ‘Cap’n.’)

Can’t believe I forgot Kevin Thomas Riley!

Chekov would still be a child during SNW I think since he was the youngest of Kirk’s crew. I would love to see SNW continue on into an updated TOS.

Not even Chekov per se. He wasn’t in TOS till season 2.

The right way to check the guy’s range is to have a show where aliens replace Kirk with a substitute of some kind, and we get to see this guy channel OTT Kirk with the dramatic pauses and exaggerated expressions while being choked by energy clouds. If it plays like parody, then fine, it is a one-off, but if it somehow works …

“Kirk’s Brain”

McCoy to Spock: “His brain is gone. It’s been removed surgically…His body lives, the autonomic functions continue, but there is no mind.”

That joke would work better when applied to the writer’s room.

;-)

What amazes me to this day is how DeForest Kelly was such a pro’s-pro that he acts the scene with the same approach and earnestness like any other scene in TOS — even though he knows it’s complete shit.

this is like trying to thread a needle with a sledgehammer. no one can restore a brain jim!

LOL, just awesome!

Ha! Excellent.

I would rather a Paul Wesley spinoff project use the backdoor plot seed in Picard season 3. Kirk’s remains are there. I don’t see Shatner coming back under any serious circumstances but at the point where you’re resurrecting someone who’s been dead for 30 years, they can get away with being younger.

Also, Wesley is too old for a SNW era Kirk except in limited doses so I think it would serve him well for any project to be another time period, either between TOS and TMP or post-resurrection in the 25th century.

In fact, I agree with this idea, the recast characters can come back as original versions in a way. With the same logic I wanted a Captain Sulu series starring John Cho but since most of his tv shows were failures I highly doubt anyone wants to get John Cho as a lead in a show anymore.

My big thing is that I think Wesley seems to better the more you give him to go on as an actor… and we’re in a period that is kind of off-kilter for Kirk. He nearly gets married. He is forced to walk away from his son. He’s fresh off a tragedy that killed most of his crew. Kodos is fresher and more immediate to him.

Whereas if you had Wesley play a post-Generations Kirk, he has more to go on. A memory of phrases and events and figures of speech he can draw from. He’d read the dialogue differently as a guy whose son is dead, who lost the Enterprise to other people and even a self-destruct. It’s just a character with a lot more for an actor to draw from outside the script.

I would to love to like this version of Kirk more, but I really don’t. He doesn’t do it for me at all. He really sucks to me. That said hopefully I will like him more next season, I suspect he’ll be in half the episodes lol.

Wesley’s performance seems very divisive. I was skeptical after his first appearance in the sideways remake of Balance of Terror, but I really liked him across season 2. I thought he had great chemistry with La’an on their time travel adventure and Uhura as he helped her figure out her mystery.

What about Wesley’s Kirk do you find repellent?

I just find him very dull. Just no real personality or spark to me. I did like him with La’an, but he could’ve been any character just the same.

He just does not exude Kirk to me in any way. But that’s solely my opinion. If he works for you and others, that’s great. Everyone will have different opinions of course. We’re stuck with him no matter what lol, so I hope I warm up to him more in the future.

While I do agree with you, I also think that Kirk in general is a very difficult role to pull off and I am not sure if there are any other youngish actors out there who they could have gotten for the role. At least we didn’t get a Chalamet Kirk. Any suggestions for different youngish actors for Kirk? Maybe Jesse Plemons since he played a captain role in the USS Calister episode of Black Mirror.

I don’t disagree with that either alphantrion, but I still refuse to believe he was the best for this role as well.

As far as other possiblities, I really would have to think about it. I remember when they announced the Kelvin movies and everyone kept saying Matt Damon would be a great Kirk in the movie. Yeah, him lol. No seriously I can’t think of anyone right now but I will think hard on it and come back with an answer hopefully.

In my head, SNW isn’t canon. So, I’m OK with Paul Wesley as Kirk.

Totally agree.

IMHO it is canon because everything on TV or streaming or the movies is canon. But having said that I think this is an alternate timeline than the Prime universe.

This Kirk is even worse than Chris Pine Kirk if that was even possible. No charisma or personality, looks way too old and looks more like Jim Carrey than he does William Shatner.

What were they thinking???

Pine actually manages to connect in that early BEYOND scene with McCoy, but that’s after coming off like a highschool actor against Cumberbatch, so it hardly atones. Even so, he seems a miles better choice than this guy, who I’d almost be tempted to call a KINO (kirk in name only) if I didn’t have to credit the ethics-free cretins who thought up RINO.

I will agree with that. He is better in Beyond if only slightly.

But I agree with you, he is still ten times better than this new guy. Even if people like him, was he really the best choice out there? There must have been some truly terrible auditions then.

It’s like he didn’t audition for the job. Like somebody just called him up and say ‘hey, you wanna play Kirk?’ Like why this person?

Yeah I always hated Fratboy Kirk until we got Deadwood Kirk. At least Fratboy Kirk would be fun to hang out with at Starfleet functions. Now that’s a party.

I’m not trying to change the subject but since you’re a big TOS fan like I am what are some of your favorite episodes?

Off top of my head: Balance of Terror, Doomsday Machine, The Empath, This Side of Paradise, Mirror Mirror, The Ultimate Computer, Bread & Circuses, Immunity Syndrome, Arena, Day of the Dove, A Piece of the Action, Where No Man, City on Edge … not necessarily all the best (a couple are there mainly just for character beats), but definitely faves.

Oh nice we have a lot of the same favorites!

For me I’ll also add Shore Leave, Trouble with Tribbles, The Enterprise Incident and Turnabout Intruder (just kidding haha).

The only two on your list I disagree with is Bread and Circuses and The Empathy. Always hated those. But we are good company overall.

I would name all my favorite TNG episodes but the list would be way too long lol. And I think you said you only liked a few of them from that show.

Nice list! We have significant overlap. If I took your list and wanted to make mine from it, I would:

— subtract The Empath, This Side of Paradise, The Immunity Syndrome and Bread and Circuses (not that these all aren’t solid eps in my book)

— and add Amok Time, The Trouble with Tribbles, Let That be Your Last Battlefield, The Tholian Web and (you are going to laugh, but I have a weakness for this one) The Way to Eden

Best worst episode: Spock’s Brain

No redeeming factors/most annoying episode: And the Children Shall Lead

OK, I’ll play too! :)

In no particular order: COTEOF (Okay that one is first lol), Trouble with Tribbles, Patterns of Force, Shore Leave, Day of the Dove, A Piece of the Action, Errand of Mercy, Tomorrow is Yesterday, The Naked Now, Miror Mirror, Space Seed and The Squire of Gothos.

Oh how could I forget Amok time??? I already hear that music in my head lol.

I meant to include RETURN TO TOMORROW, ENTERPRISE INCIDENT and SHORE LEAVE, sorry. I have MISSISSIPPI BURNING-sized issues with the ethical implications ignored in INCIDENT, but like that Alan Parker film and how it distorts the history of a very important moment to paint the FBI in a way-too-heroic light, I find it tremendously engaging, so it’s a hate-myself-while-enoying-it.

Kind of like how I feel about the entire Dirty Harry franchise…I want the dude to be judge jury and executioner, even though I know it’s wrong

Well I think Pine does a nice job channeling Shatner’s version of Kirk while still making it his own. The performance is fine — it was the lines/writing that were the issue.

It sounds like we will disagree on my next comment here — I thought Cumberbatch gave a wooden, mailed-in performance in STID — I was disappointed given all the hype about his involvement.

I won’t dispute CumberKhan not firing on all thrusters, but I just thought Pine seemed utterly amateur-hour in that brig scene with him, like he had no business being on same stage. It’s how I feel about Alley in most of TWOK — her ‘prepare for warp speed’ line sounds like a high school cheerleader nervous in a back seat, not like a Starfleet officer.

I loved Alley in TWOK but I can’t disagree with that lol. But Saavik is so awesome!

OK, sure, that big scene was not his finest moment. Agree on Alley. I actually liked Robin Curtis’s Vulcan better — I bought into her being a Vulcan, whereas Saavik was rather silly — like a JJ Abrams or Mike McMahan idea for a sex kitten Vulcan.

Saavik takes me out of the movie at times with the BS hair antics and her smokers sexy voice thing…lol

Robin Curtis is probably the only aspect I found to be a total win in the Nimoy-directed films. I just wish she had better material, instead of unplayable lines, like ‘admiral, david is dead.’ Her makeup looked really extreme in TVH though.

I often wonder how much better Curtis might have been received if Nimoy hadn’t reconceived her as full Vulcan; I still find Bennett’s cut of that half-Rom reveal in TWOK to be a grievous one (plus why you choose to cut ANY scene that is a Kirk Spock character bit seems crazed to me, like leaving money on the floor.)

Agreed on all points

In NuTrek there are three KINOs in my opinion!

1. Klingons in name only! Discovery
2. Khan in name only! JJ verse
3. Kirk in name only! SNW

A lot of KINOs lol.

(Just having some fun guys and only talking about my options.. but it’s all true!!!)

Won’t get any arguments out of me.

I do wonder if we’ll ever see the Discovery Klingons again? I’m guessing that’s a no lol.

LOL let’s hope not! 😂🙄

I think Kurtzman et al. realized that the sewer rat “Klingons” were a loser immediately. That may be why the Klingon war storyline was so abruptly aborted in season one of Discovery.

That’s always been my thinking too.

Yeah, that was basically Kurtzman cleaning up Brian Fullers Klingon brain-fart.

Agreed. I think they knew early on it just wasn’t working because as you said it ended very abruptly to say the least.

And why fix something that isn’t isn’t broken?

I’m just irritated that all the new-old characters are going to distract from what makes SNW so wonderful: the cast of original characters the show already has. Bringing in the youngsters is just a gimmick. So what if Kid-Scottie has the accent…at least new-Uhura was in it from the beginning and made the role her own. She’s the best reboot of them all so far, so kudos! As for new-Kirk, someone please give him a super-hero cape and quietly dump him out an airlock; he’s being written all wrong! I’ve nothing against the actor (although I’ve never seen him in anything else) but the original JTK is wry and subtle, not to mention self-aware enough not to take himself too seriously, qualities totally lacking in the intense, arrogant super-hero portrayal of the new guy.

I have to accept that I’m in the minority, but it’s a big barrier to entry to have 20-something Kirk played by a guy who looks like he’s 40+ and largely inanimate.

I don’t think you’re in the minority.

Er no way, sunshine. No more prequels, we see Kirk post-SNW. It’s called The Original Series. That’ll do.